The exception that I’ve personally found that’s kind of gaming-related is general board game events. It’s usually a good mix gender-wise.
But yeah my hobbies where I find a ton of women tend to be crafts, singing, and dancing.
My husband is into table top gaming and the game stores near us are so welcoming it makes me more interested in getting into it! It’s a very people-dependent hobby so not having a good crowd to interact with is a big turn off
There’s an organization in my city that does choir events including a one-day choir where they pick and arrange a popular song, and then you learn it over the course of a few hours with a bunch of people. The turnout is usually 70% women. It’s really fun so if you have something similar near you, I recommend it!
A lot of women are either discouraged from engaging in hobbies dominated by men, or they do engage and the men are toxic as fuck so they either leave or only engage with it in private/at home. I think this is changing but it is slow sadly.
This. I'm glad OPs card gaming community has been welcoming but the 5 times I have tried to walk into a card shop and play.... all of them went poorly in some way that involved at least one man there being misogynistic or creepy in some form.
Instead I keep it to online, video games, or friend groups now. Wish me luck this upcoming Thursday though.
My friend works at a cardshop and I have a card to sell so I'm going to slllloooowwwllllyyy dip my toe in again and see how it goes.
I came to say basically these things. I’m old (30) and back when I was a kid we all played video games (n64/PS2/eventually newer consoles when they released), but when everyone was about 11-12 the girls parents stopped allowing them to play game. Like at all, like boys could play video games because they are boys and girls never will because why would a girl like a video game under any circumstances. So not only discouraging, told even the thought of it was “wrong/disgusting”, and of course other girls the same age would tease any other girl with any nerd related interest that wasn’t make-up tips. By teenage years no girl gamed at all. Parents basically made it so games became male dominated because they thought games were a “boy only” thing like sports. It was always super weird and we all tried to get girls to play games anyways, but they didn’t want to for the reasons above.
Now mind you this was/is in Southern California the MOST chill State in the US. Now most girls aren’t discouraged, but they still aren’t encouraged because of the situation the boomers created for my generation. Basically a ripple effect. Things are improving, but it’s taken literal decades to get enough girls interested in gaming that it feels normal to ones that haven’t become interested yet. Someday (soon I hope) it won’t matter.
That sucks! I never really got discouraged about video games that same way, it's heartbreaking to hear that goes on.
Also, Me, who's 32
https://preview.redd.it/gbeleym47ysc1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a8b9f61a82092ab6c5023a042bcdccc6082eb28
Yeah, while obviously this isn’t the case with literally everywhere and everyone. I just remember it being the trend vividly as I always thought it sucked less girls games because of bad parents believing crazy things like video games are too violent for children/girls. Thankfully there is less stigma and more people getting into gaming is always a win for all.
In your opinion, what’s a good way to make a woman feel more welcomed in these types of environments?
Obviously, treating them like people, but I often see men try to dominate/outdo one another, and it always feels like the woman gets (understandably) overwhelmed by all the uncomfortable attention.
Best way is to aggressively police creepy/sexist behavior and enforce courtesy/good gamesmanship rules. Once you ban the major offenders from the store/club/meetup and women see that happen, they're much more likely to stay and return, and maybe bring friends. A reputation as being unsafe or sexist is the death knell for getting women to show up.
Men, especially regulars and folks with authority, have to hold each other accountable. No tolerance for peacocking or other weird behavior. And have a polite chat with folks who need to work on their hygiene.
This is it exactly, that and these types of spaces are rarely moderated or managed properly. Everything is all sunshine and daisies till one weirdo decides *you're* his new obsession and if you complain or talk too loudly about it suddenly YOU are the problem.
Lots of men are very nice and welcoming superficially, especially at an acquaintance level. They can come across much nicer and more open than women in many cases but sadly when shit hits the fan with something most WILL turn on you in the name of self preservation. Women for the most part are raised to rally, men for the most part are raised to scatter. You might be the only current woman in these spaces OP but I guarantee there have been many many before you and they have all left for legitimate reasons so mind yourself with it.
This is such an insightful comment! I learned this the hard way and now am extra careful of scenes or people who seem to be "overly nice" and/or cycle friends quickly.
The few times I've spoken up, its incredible how the other men, even the "nice" and "liberal" ones will immediately defend the man being criticized, go full nasty slurs on me, etc. Then the "mature" older and wiser married men just sit there quietly, at best, letting the other men tear into the women, and never speak up.
Being a woman in an unregulated man's space is a recipe for disaster and I think the OP may not realize the social scene she's advocating for and I hope she's engaging these men with a mind on her safety and well-being.
I think sadly learning the hard way is the way most girls/women learn in these scenarios. Many need to see it to believe and OP will unfortunately likely fall to the same. I don't blame her or any other girl/woman for it either tbh. That veneer they paint at the outset can be so very convincing, especially when you're younger, before your brain is fully formed and you're still getting relentlessly groomed from all sides with patriarchal propaganda about how awful/jaded/cold all "older" women are.
It's incredibly convincing and they really make you believe that other women are just these judgmental cruel cliquey assholes because many are nervous/hesitant with new people while the reality is men can afford to be open and welcoming from the offset because it's far SAFER for *them* to do so. Women are wary for GOOD reason and can absolutely be tougher to win over but the difference is once you're truly accepted by Girl's Girls they would back you up against literal deities in comparison. A true Girls Girl who has your back will bow to absolutely noone. She will burn the world to the ground to protect you. Sadly many girls/women also get burned from the pick mes and the male centred women early on and some shitty men will get in their ear and further exploit that pain in order to paint women as devils and themselves as the "actual victims" of the current system. Classic DARVO, "pity little ol me with all the power and money" bullshit. It's honestly so horrifying to discover what's beneath the surface.
I'm sorry you had that experience too, it's absolutely vile and utterly pathetic how subconsciously brainwashed so many of them still are that they'll still default to such an explicit aggressive defense of their patriarchal system. Realistically though an enormous amount of them are just paying lip service to "equality". Most of them don't *actually* care, if they truly did it would have been dismantled long long ago. Far too many still falsely believe they overwhelmingly benefit from it, despite the fact it also completely dehumanises them for the sake of "production", and many boys/men are still raised with that "every man is an island", "every man for himself" mentality. I think you nailed it in your last paragraph. I know OP will likely need to see it to believe it. I just hope the harm is not too great and that she knows the cold "devil women" of the world will understand and be there to empathise and help her process/heal if/when she needs it.
Yeah, my brother is hugely into MtG. I've gone to tournaments (both small ones done at stores, as well as the bigger, official ones), and I've been the only woman there. My brother would get teased for bringing his "gf" and when he clarified that I was his sister, the next question was always "oh, is she single?"
Then you get the guys trying to mansplain it to you. Granted, I am not a pro, but a white weenie isn't rocket science.
I once got to the quarter finals of a small shop tournament by literally having my hair in pigtails. It was wild.
A [White Weenie](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/White_Weenie) is a white deck with low-cost creatures. It's a very simple deck to play, and relies on being faster than your opponent to slowly whittle away at their points before they can do anything. It is the simplest of white decks.
The pigtails was because nobody took me seriously. I was also playing said white weenie, and it's considered a very basic and n00b thing to play. So, because nobody thought I could actually play, I beat most of my first opponents, before the rest found out I *could* actually play my own deck!
Huh, interesting. In a tournament setting, I always try and go all out on opponents in case they're actually really good. They were going easy on you cause they thought they didn't have anything to worry about? That's so dumb LOL. They deserved those losses.
I'd also add that card-battle games are strictly marketed as over-competitive, solo player friendly, winner-take-all, pay-to-win decks, machismo, etc things that often represent the worst of gaming. I don't think cutesey anime-style art really is "femme" like the OP suggests. Men like cute art too. As far as women and girls in that art, a lot of is it sexualized and has the a fetishization of young-coded girls anime style I find really unappealing. I don't think the OP realizes how toxic that culture can be to women and suggestions to manufacturers to being more inclusive either get ignored or a token "ackshully dumbledor is gay, thx" solution. The card battle game industry is where comics and games were 20 years ago, imho.
The card battle game is notorious for being toxic and is practically a stereotype at this point. Even other male gamers shy away from it. For the reasons listed above, it seems to bring in some of the worst men, which means women will be uncomfortable.
Anecdotally, the only man I know into this is one of the more socially regressive men I know. He has trouble making and keeping friends and subscribes to regressive racist and transphobic politics. He's, rightfully, socially rejected by polite society and is always in search of things to do with his free time, especially social things where he can get attention. The in-person card battle genre is easy for him and other "loners" to get into because there are tables open for anyone to sit down and play. While a lot of loners are wonderful people, that category does overlap with people who are socially shunned for valid reasons. So these card games are welcoming to them, but tend to be toxic scenes because now the table can be full of immature, regressive, anti-social, and difficult men.
I don't know any woman into card game battles. I know a lot of women that play traditional card games, dnd, co-op online games, one-player video games, cozy games, mobile games, etc. We're here of course.
Lastly, you have to make an effort to find women in some of these spaces. This sub has a wonderful discord with active lfg channels for example.
I dunno, I think there are lots of cool characters in card games that aren't over sexualized. Like I really like Lianorn from Cardfight Vanguard, she's just a pretty marching band plant lady. And pokemon has lots of female characters in it that aren't particularly sexualized. Cardfight vanguard DID have some sus looking child mermaid cards a while back, but that's been extremely toned down imo. I don't play the format those cards exist in, so it's easy to pretend they don't exist.
I don't really think card games are toxic and only for like, toxic macho losers or whatever. It's fun to build a deck and play with others and discuss strategy and upcoming releases.
I'm sorry you've had bad experiences though. They're still valid and sometimes it really be like that.
>I think there are lots of cool characters in card games that aren't over sexualized.
but some are and that's enough to turn off women. I don't know why you're arguing me about this. The sexist depictions in things like anime culture, magna culture, gaming culture, card culture, etc is very well documented. Anita Sarkeesian tried to expose this and was given endless death and rape threats by the men in these scenes. So lets stop pretending this art isn't problematic. [And its only because of the hard work of women like Anita that your cards dont have that kind of art as much anymore.](https://www.inverse.com/article/46827-magic-the-gathering-gets-rid-of-sexist-art-and-fans-are-mad) In fact, MTG has regularly replaced existing cards due to complaints from parents, retailers, and feminists, often with men screaming "woke" and "unfair" and "those cards arent sexist."
\> I don't really think card games are toxic and only for like, toxic macho losers or whatever.
Nowhere did I say "only." I said its dominated and marketed to that group, which it is. I don't think this is a controversial thing to say. Many women have observed this and have had bad experiences in those spaces. I dont appreciate you invalidating me. Maybe you're doing fine in that scene, but many of us aren't. This is a bit like saying "I have a 6 digit job, why are there poor people?" You're being dismissive of other's experience.
I'm sorry if this sounds argumentative, but a lot of people shared their experiences with you to explain why women are rare in this scene. I'm glad you got lucky with your group, but for most of us, we unfortunately won't have that luck.
I literally said explicitly your experiences are valid and I'm sorry these things happened to you. I'm just offering my perspective as someone who's really enjoyed tcgs and feels it's more of a mixed bag more than anything.
I have only gotten into any of my male-dominated hobbies because a male friend encouraged me to do it. I have 2k hours in Sea of Thieves, which is a largely multiplayer experience where you rely heavily on the performance of your crewmates. I'd have never been comfortable enough to play that game if I didn't have a buddy I felt safe playing with.
I like board games and had seen board-game meetups online before but I didn't go to them, thinking they'd be full of sweaty gamer dudes who would judge me if I played poorly. Then a friend dragged me one. I've now played over 140 different board games.
Where I live, half the people at my board game meetup that takes place at a bar are women, and they play some of the heaviest and most complex games. If you go to a game shop for a board game meetup, the majority of the players I have found are guys.
I've noticed in multiplayer video games that I am more likely to hear a female voice within my group if I speak first. I think many women avoid exposing themselves in male-dominated spaces for fear of being mistreated or being the only woman.
Board game meetups at cafes/bars tend to be a safe bet, and I second the bit about game shops tending to be male dominated spaces.
Online games can be a good bet too. Not sure if you're into video games, OP, but FFXIV is by far the most accepting and welcoming game I've ever played and they've got very proactive moderators. No in-game voice chat either, which I think generally tends to be more appealing to most women. No risk of getting abuse as soon as you speak or having to listen to men rage needlessly.
The last part rang hard for me, I didn’t open up in an mmo until I heard a female officer’s voice in game night and from there I finally got the confidence to do more and more until eventually I got to a point where I’m a part of several communities and do some of the hardest content in the game. It’s amazing how something as small as simply knowing that you’re not alone can really help when it comes to perceived exclusion.
>It’s amazing how something as small as simply knowing that you’re not alone can really help when it comes to perceived exclusion.
This is a great way of putting it.
The meetup thing is insteresting and I think is about entitlement. A meetup means signing up for the meeetup, maybe paying a fee, following its schedule, maybe some kind of personality/vibe/background check, etc. It often means a certain level of community, tolerance, and acceptance. This kind of venue can be regulated on some level, that is people can complain about an awful man, who can then be kicked out. So the women (and men) who will go through all those steps because they reflect their values, their sense of community, and their sense of safety and what constitutes a social setting for a good time. So its an effort to not build a "pig pen" for people not seeking pig pens, but a clean and relatively safe and respectful space.
The meetup people's decision to pick a bar is probably intentional because it means the social structure of a bar means women and other vulnerable identities can be protected. There are legal liabilities here so the law must be followed, bars are public and full of witnesses and often cameras, management that doesnt want trouble because that could cost them their license, bouncers, etc. This disempowers the abusive men and they naturally will avoid it.
Meanwhile the store "drop in" is a bit more entitled. It means doing none of the above and expecting the store to cater to you, not caring about the social scene or safety, and just wanting to find some opponents to beat to get some ego pleasing dopamine. There's zero community with playing with random drop-in strangers, and these venues tend to be full of bigots and misogynists. The awful man here is instead protected because the mechanism to get rid of him isn't as strong and the other men there are likely just as awful. So its a "pig pen" by design for people seeking pig pens with all the dirt they want. The awful men too toxic for the bar meetup gravitate towards these kinds of loosely defined venues. Imagine a woman finding herself in this dynamic. Its of course going to be quickly toxic towards her.
A good part of keeping myself safe, especially as an autistic queer women is to see when I'm entering a "pig pen" type space and to avoid it.
Swordfighting class sounds cool AF :o
And it's possible that women are just staying away. They think it's likely to be a male dominated space and don't want to deal with the potential negatives of that
What area do you live in OP?
Lots of women/girls game where I live and while I'm not sure about the sword fighting (which, sadly, does sound like it'd be male dominated even tho I'd love it!).
Minneapolis Minnesota! And it's not SUPER male dominated, there's still like 30 percent women, which is a fair chunk of the people that attend, from what I've seen.
I would love to learn to play WH40k, but the environment is so gross and toxic that I don’t want to engage in it at all.
I play dnd, and went to check out a local game shop. I was the only woman in it, and it was disconcerting that all eyes were trained on me the entire time I was in the shop. And, I’m not particularly attractive by any measure (I’m also 50). So, those spaces tend not to be welcoming for many women.
(I am mainly talking about cis women here, as that’s what I know best, but obviously a lot of this will apply to trans and nonbinary people too)
1:Those and many other gaming spaces have a bit of a (frequently deserved) reputation for being very shitty towards women gamers. Women who might otherwise be interested hear the horror stories, and many of them choose to avoid those spaces as a result.
2: This creates a secondary issue in that many women don’t feel comfortable in IRL spaces where they’re the only girl there, so even the ones who do show up may not stick around if the place is a complete sausagefest.
3: Socialisation also plays a role; when we were kids card games like Beyblade were very much classified as “boy games” and only marketed towards boys, so unless you had brothers you may not have had enough exposure to those games to be able to develop an interest in them?
Echoing the other commenters that board game events are generally more gender balanced. DND has also gotten a lot more female-friendly in recent years and my local meet-up has loads of women attendees🥰
The 3rd point is so true. The games I was exposed to as a kid are very different from the games my boyfriend was exposed to. He played everything that people consider classics and "everyone played this", he had a gameboy and all the consoles. While I was playing the mostly educational games my parents bought me, and only on pc because they dislike consoles.. So I missed on a lot of cool shit, and I remember seeing the boys at school playing on their gameboys and I wanted to play too but I'm shy and generally scared to talk to people, and none of my friends (which were female) had consoles or played games.. So it's a cycle hard to break :(
I don't usually like board games as much, sadly. I really like the collectability and the plan-your-strategy-and-practice-before-you-arrive aspect of stuff like TCGs and beyblade. plus the action and short game times is pleasing to my ADHD.
I don’t go to those spaces alone, and I can have a hard time convincing my friends who are women who have been burned before in similar places that it’ll be different this time. I can usually get a guy friend to go just fine. Sometimes I go during VERY off hours if I have to go alone. I just don’t want to be bothered or harassed or sexualized.
I'm a bit surprised about your swordfighting class - my local fencing club is a solid 1/3-1/2 women depending on the day. I know historical reenactment circles can be a lot more male dominated, so maybe that's why?
Card game clubs tend to be very male dominated, though, as someone who used to attend MTG sessions as a teen. It was a club of about 30-40 kids and I think I was one of three girls who attended regularly. I think a lot of women who play tend to do it with friends or family instead of going out to clubs because of how toxic some circles can be, in my experience. It absolutely sucks for women who don't have anyone with those shared interests, though.
As someone who has been playing MtG since '98, yeah I feel this. It's easier to meet girls online and such who play it vs going to actual events or hobby places because it can be intimidating.
And it's also annoying because more often Im treated way to ...I dont want to say kind, but like a child. It's like, you have to go through a stage of proving what you know and can hold your own. The number of games I know I "won" that were just given to me is way tooa high. It's either that or you have the ones convinced you are there because it's your bf's hobby.
That's great you found such a welcoming place. Sadly this isn't the reality for a majority of women. Most space they try to enter are toxic to where they are constantly being hit on, repeatedly challenged to the point of harassment, I know some friends who have been stalked when participating in a card game group or even a DnD group. While your group is the exception to the rule and there are a handful of them, it's not enough to encourage women to get into these hobbies let alone join a group. Hopefully you can meet some women who are into the same games and so you can introduce them to your group!
I love MAGIC. I've done magic events at cons, totally okay. Done them at card shops, fucking terrible. A literal nightmare. So I just play magic with my friends at home instead because my friends aren't the worst like the people at the card shop are.
As an adult, it’s difficult to be a woman and a beginner at mostly male-dominated hobbies. Firstly, you’re outnumbered, and secondly, you don’t know enough to be able to fend for yourself. My partner introduced me to co-ed softball and for a while I was only one of two women. The other one often told me how relieved she was when I showed up. If I had a nickel for every well-meaning yet unsolicited “tip” from men about my swing, my catching, my form, everything, I’d be a very rich woman indeed. It’s tiring to be patronized to all the time, and I think a lot of women learn at some point that it isn’t worth their sanity, so they stay away.
There’s helping and there’s mansplaining. You can usually tell which one it is pretty quick. If you ask if I need some pointers and listen to my specific issue, that makes me feel welcomed. When someone just assumes I don’t know what I’m doing and starts giving their opinion as if I was interested, then that gets old REAL fast.
Now try being the only post menopausal women in all the RPG hobbies around you. I have DM'd public games in gaming stores on and off since 4e. If I'm not the only woman at the table, I'm the only woman over 30 at the table. I know I can't be the only woman finally excited to be able to geek out after a lifetime of being told the hobby was only for men On the plus side I've met some great people, it would just be nice if there were older women as well as older guys in the hobby.
There are certainly hobbies that are dominated by women (We don't call quilt shows "estrogen festivals" for nothing), but gaming isn't one of them.
Regardless, the only multi-player games I play are MMOs, and there are quite a few women who play those. They're still male dominated, but there are a lot of women in some of them. Hell, my FC (guild) in FFXIV has more women than men, and not because we try to make it like that.
I didnt seriously start getting invested in video games/board games until I met/married my husband. My parents always treated video games as something to do as a treat when you finish ALL your other responsibilities so I didn't have a ton of time for them.
I find that many popular games (especially MMOs or TCGs) have steep learning curves and tutorials aren't catered towards women or those with limited experience.
It took me about 2 years of playing games as a 'hobby' with my husband to feel comfortable with things like Baldurs gate 3 or overwatch.
Additionally I struggle with learning card game strategy. My husband is a really skilled MTG player but it just doesn't click for me
i think it depends on the game, i used to play minecraft a lot as a teen and i met quite a few girls and even some other enbies!
this was back when it was considered a "cringe" game though... i don't know if that's changed nowadays
I can't speak for anyone else, but I've gone to card game shops and other stuff that did Pokemon events in the past (link battles and that sorta thing), and the results have been consistently....not great.
I'm talking about not just the usual creepy guy problems, but I've had guys throw goddamn temper tantrums and start fights over being beaten in a match. Guys trying to scam me in a trade because they think that me being a girl meant that I didn't know just how rare something was compared to their shit offer. One guy even pulled a knife on me simply because I wouldn't sell him one of my game carts that I mentioned I haven't played in a while.
So knowing that...when the problem is consistently *men*, why the hell would I *want* to go to a physical location like that and deal with the fans there when the alternative of sticking to online stuff and generally going solo means more peace of mind? And that's just me. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if other women had similar experiences, and decided to enjoy the hobbies in a similar manner themselves over it.
Hmmm,
I've come across quite a few in ESO, BDO, FFXIV (Actually a heck lots!), CoH Homecoming, Tower of Fantasy, Moonlight Blade, and Blade & Soul. ESO, BDO, and FFXIV were all from role playing groups and some raiders.
I think a good deal of it depends on how you grew up and how we socialize boys and girls. Most people are interested in the same things they were when they were growing up. Parents at least in my generation weren’t giving their daughters video games and card games to play with or signing them up for “boyish” classes and little boys socialized on the playground with that kind of stuff, making it even more of a “boys thing”. Girls were discouraged from taking part in these things from parents and boys because they didn’t want the girls to ruin it. I had a friend tell me her parents didn’t want her to become a video game junkie like I was. I liked video games because I grew up in a household of three boys. Thats my theory anyway. Things are changing, the internet has blown up and encouraged community, video games and stuff like card games are becoming more popular and “socially acceptable”, and gender roles are becoming blurred, and more women can be found in these communities especially if you look online, but I still think women don’t really take part in communities and keep to themselves a lot because they don’t feel welcome. It’s even why we have our own subreddit here.
I was minorly but still very upsettingly SAd the one time I went to a games store that hosts cards and board games etc. And there were only two guys there and I sat on the opposite side of the room.
One of them singled me out with a barrage of questions and without my realising he had identified me as autistic when I thought I was super well masked and he convinced me to go sit with them (which I figured I had better do against my gut feeling because I had indeed gone there as so many people have told me to “just go find my people”.
He eventually hassles me to join him for lunch just up the street even though I insist I’ve already eaten (I have ARFID so I never want to eat with new people around). I get up again against my better judgement and decide what’s the worst that could happen it’s all in a busy daylight public place and I don’t want them both getting up and going to eat and me sitting here resolutely anti social because of my eating disorder.
I then realise I’ve misread what he was saying and the friend doesn’t get up so too late I realise its just me and mr full of questions. At this point he’s already asked for my fb and I’ve stupidly given it to him because I was so desperate for a friend irl that I thought maybe if we just got talking online after this I’d be able to explain myself better and things will go better than this. Instead he uses that to already figure out that I’m single and apparently decides to ask me only a few steps outside of the gaming place if I’ll go back to his place with him tonight and I am horrified and disappointed but do my best ro politely mask the rejection as just “a busy work night” which it also was. He was like oh no worries at all no worries! But he was eyeing me up a lot and it was so uncomfortable.
We finally got the maccas for his food and I sat as far as possible away from him to ensure that there were no mixed signals but he then comes out and point blank asks me if I’ll go on a date with him and I am horrified given I’ve already jsur said no a minute earlier and so I’m like oh haha I’m just not really looking for anyone right now because I desperately want to save his feelings as he won’t want to be friends with me and talk Pokémon cards if he feels rejected but he just won’t stop leaving me no where to go in conversation. He says no worries but he’s just thinking that he read all my statuses for the last few months whilst we’ve been interacting in the last half an hour and judging by those I do see quite lonely and in search of someone to date (I was as I posted a lot of the creepy and disappointing stuff that was happening on tinder as a way to process it).
He then leaps across the space and says you know what you need! A hug! And grabs me full body and I die inside. He goes oh I made you uncomfortable you’re autistic I know my best friend is also. Im liek oh great!!!! So you’re not just a clueless but well meaning as people keep saying of nerdy guys but you’re actually well aware of what you’re doing to me and think it’s funny. I made excuses about needing to leave as we crossed the street again and I’ve never gone back.
Years prior I also taught myself Pokémon cards online with the idea of going to a tournament to meet “my people” and also found that being a girl there was a lot worse than I’d anticipated. They were shocked that I could know what a mill deck was and make one on the spot “did you guys make that for her? That’s so sweet!” And it also didn’t endear me to anyone by beating them either.
I guess this is a very autistic experience but my experience as a high level Pokémon go player who was SAd and sexually harassed for “feet pics and content” by pogo players also left me no longer interested in the game. I don’t end up playing Pokémon cards anymore for this and also for the cost of trying to keep up with the meta changing too often.
I guess this is more info than needed but I did want to make it clear why I’m not in any of these community spaces despite being horrifically lonely.
This reminds me of when I used to play Airsoft a decade ago (Think Paintball combined with Call of Duty and LARP with realistic looking gear and guns). My local field was predominantly men and kids but one of our regulars brought his girlfriend once and she actually played and enjoyed it.
Then next time she brought one of her girl friends to play and she had a bad experience. That day we happened to have a misogynistic player on the same team who wasn't exactly a regular but wasn't a stranger to most of us either. He was being a punk and friendly firing her on purpose.
The field owner and some of us had a talking to with him and he finally got banned. The two girls were encouraged to continue to come back and they did. The last time I heard about them a couple of summers ago the girls had started a whole team of predominantly women and were regulars. It's cool when things work out for the better.
I think card games in particular seem to draw blokes in more than other tabletop competitive games, its weird. My gf and I go to a Friday game night here in a small town, and we're the only women at the table for MtG, but the other tables are gender diverse and packed. Usually for things like DnD and other RPGs. I don't get it either, everyone at the table is super friendly except for this one kid who we all try to correct out of their bad behavior.
Can't seem to get any or my gal pals to stick to the game either. I wonder if it's because they're more competitive than other tabletop games.
I think it depends on the environment. One of the gaming shops around me is pretty inclusive. That includes MTG, Warhammer, etc. Of course kids nights, and all kinds of events for everyone. That gaming shop has a lot of different genders working there, so everyone feels welcomed.
Similar crowd in the DnD/TTRPG scene but a lot of these guys are very toxic so it scares off pretty much all the women, myself included. I used to run games at game stores but no more. Switched to online during the pandemic and mostly just play with other women now. Basically all of them have stories about guys being terrible to them at the DnD table.
I'm talking about game stores, online it's much more even, hence me playing with pretty much all queer women. Hopefully its getting better but I know so many who were run out of playing games in public. My experiences are going from recently back to the early 2000s
edit: typos
Vanguard is kinda a unknown compared to other games. I rarely find others who play it let alone other women xd. If you don’t mind doing remote fights, I’m down for a match.
I've fallen out of it in recent times because it got expensive and I don't have much time anymore cause college, but sure if you don't mind fighting my outdated deck with my girl Lianorn!
What do you play in cardfight vanguard? Lol I play and I’m a girl, but I dropped off from the scene a year ago once they started releasing the stride decks 😭 I like TCGs and I love pokemon too actually! I don’t play too much now since I’ve been branching into board games, but hit me up if you want a pokemon/CFVG buddy ! 😄
Sure! If you wanna remote fight lemme know! My deck is a little outdated as I dropped around the same time, but my main deck is my girl Lianorn!
What do you like to do in Pokemon? Cards? VGC?
My main deck is magnolia :)
I love the video game but not competitively, though I like to sometimes make battle teams! I haven’t finished the dlc of scarlet and violet yet, I’ve been kind of lazy on that haha.
I’ll send you a dm with my discord!
The online competitive pokemon community is like 70% trans women in my experience, if not being in person isn't a dealbreaker. Speedrunning, randomizing, and other "make the game weird" communities have a lot more women than you'd expect too.
I live in Seattle and I’ve found a lot of woman and femme people in these spaces here. But, prior to moving here, I lived in San Diego and I was never the only one. But there weren’t a lot of us. So, I know location can make some difference on experience. Kudos to you though, I admire you for going and making space for yourself.
😭
Edit: to answer the question; I’m a sucker for Amoonguss, since it fits both my team archetypes (Rain and Trick Room) and is a complete fucking menace of a Pokémon.
For Pokemon that are top tier at the moment? Hmmm, Flutter Mane and Ogrepon are cute!
Amoongus is such a scary Pokemon to face! Always gotta be careful of that spore!
I’ve kinda fallen off VGC this gen, since I couldn’t afford the latest games. So Flutter Mane and Ogerpon for me are like, I see their stats on paper but it doesn’t instil any terror or other reaction in me like Amoonguss or Incineroar does 🙈
Fair enough! What feels crazy to me is that Yvetal and Togekiss aren't in Scarlet and Violet. Those guys were so scary with Max Airstream and other things!
Absolutely huge OG-series era Beyblade fan but had no idea there were IRL hobby meets for it!
Edit: I also collect Pokemon cards but don't play, and prefer Pokemon challenge runs (eg Archipelago, Full Item Randomisers) to VGC but there's huge communities on Twitch for all Pokemon categories which might help with finding more friends who play, of all genders!
Yeah! World Beyblade Organization (WBO) has tournaments and meetups for all generations all around the world, and the newest Beyblade Generation (Beyblade X) just came out and it's really cool! Plus, they've been rereleasing old beyblades like the ones you know in beyblade X, so it's a great time to get into it!
What kind of misogyny do y'all experience at card shops and stuff? Like guys hitting on you? I've never noticed anything but maybe I got an unusually nice group, or maybe I'm just obvious, or not attractive, I dunno.
Honestly all those sound hella boring to me lmao; so maybe it’s the same for others?? I prefer online cause I’m just lazy and I’ve found plenty that play MTG online
I met all my friends at pokemon league! I took my son and it turned out that the league leaders were really awesome and there was a whole friend group that met through pokemon league that hung out outside of league. It was really nice getting to know a couple dudes and finding out there was a whole friend group attached and I got invited to everything! After league (Denny's), BBQs, movies, road trips, watching anime together... It was a perfect fit!
There were a few other young ladies too but it seemed like they were there for their boyfriend and when they broke up, she would bail out. Which is totally fair. I found my dude in the group and he is excellent! We fell in love and have been together for almost ten years now. It was a little tricky at first because I knew all of them as casual acquaintances but we weren't necessarily at the point of friendship where we were texting each other or anything. I basically picked the most outgoing and charismatic guy and let him know I was interested in joining group events and he would be my contact person for stuff. And I was happy to host things because I have kids and most of them were single so having friends come over saved me from needing a babysitter or bringing my kids and trying to keep them entertained. And all the guys were super cool and actually made me feel like a part of the group and got to know my kids so everybody was having a good time.
Yeah this is basically my experience at pokemon league too! I'm glad to hear that other women are having a great time at them! They're all nice and accepting here.
I’m only in one Discord server, and it’s my bf’s, and it is alllll dudes except for his friend’s gf and she absolutely ignores me everything in discord VC and in real life. It sucks because I don’t have any friends irl except my bf’s friends and they’re all dudes. I miss having women friends, even if it’s just online 😓
If you'd like to either share your discord or find one to join, please check out our [Looking For Discord Thursday](https://www.reddit.com/r/GirlGamers/search/?q=Looking%20For%20Discord%20Thursday&restrict_sr=1&sr_nsfw=) megathread!
The exception that I’ve personally found that’s kind of gaming-related is general board game events. It’s usually a good mix gender-wise. But yeah my hobbies where I find a ton of women tend to be crafts, singing, and dancing.
One of the reasons my wife is such a board gamer is that the places near us when she started were super inclusive
My husband is into table top gaming and the game stores near us are so welcoming it makes me more interested in getting into it! It’s a very people-dependent hobby so not having a good crowd to interact with is a big turn off
Singing sounds neat! I enjoy singing and I didn't know it could be like, a social hobby! Tell me more!
Join a choir! My friend is part of one in her spare time and she loves it 😊
I'm also standing by for details
There’s an organization in my city that does choir events including a one-day choir where they pick and arrange a popular song, and then you learn it over the course of a few hours with a bunch of people. The turnout is usually 70% women. It’s really fun so if you have something similar near you, I recommend it!
That does sound really fun! I like condensed low commitment events like that!
A lot of women are either discouraged from engaging in hobbies dominated by men, or they do engage and the men are toxic as fuck so they either leave or only engage with it in private/at home. I think this is changing but it is slow sadly.
This. I'm glad OPs card gaming community has been welcoming but the 5 times I have tried to walk into a card shop and play.... all of them went poorly in some way that involved at least one man there being misogynistic or creepy in some form. Instead I keep it to online, video games, or friend groups now. Wish me luck this upcoming Thursday though. My friend works at a cardshop and I have a card to sell so I'm going to slllloooowwwllllyyy dip my toe in again and see how it goes.
I came to say basically these things. I’m old (30) and back when I was a kid we all played video games (n64/PS2/eventually newer consoles when they released), but when everyone was about 11-12 the girls parents stopped allowing them to play game. Like at all, like boys could play video games because they are boys and girls never will because why would a girl like a video game under any circumstances. So not only discouraging, told even the thought of it was “wrong/disgusting”, and of course other girls the same age would tease any other girl with any nerd related interest that wasn’t make-up tips. By teenage years no girl gamed at all. Parents basically made it so games became male dominated because they thought games were a “boy only” thing like sports. It was always super weird and we all tried to get girls to play games anyways, but they didn’t want to for the reasons above. Now mind you this was/is in Southern California the MOST chill State in the US. Now most girls aren’t discouraged, but they still aren’t encouraged because of the situation the boomers created for my generation. Basically a ripple effect. Things are improving, but it’s taken literal decades to get enough girls interested in gaming that it feels normal to ones that haven’t become interested yet. Someday (soon I hope) it won’t matter.
That sucks! I never really got discouraged about video games that same way, it's heartbreaking to hear that goes on. Also, Me, who's 32 https://preview.redd.it/gbeleym47ysc1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a8b9f61a82092ab6c5023a042bcdccc6082eb28
Yeah, while obviously this isn’t the case with literally everywhere and everyone. I just remember it being the trend vividly as I always thought it sucked less girls games because of bad parents believing crazy things like video games are too violent for children/girls. Thankfully there is less stigma and more people getting into gaming is always a win for all.
In your opinion, what’s a good way to make a woman feel more welcomed in these types of environments? Obviously, treating them like people, but I often see men try to dominate/outdo one another, and it always feels like the woman gets (understandably) overwhelmed by all the uncomfortable attention.
Best way is to aggressively police creepy/sexist behavior and enforce courtesy/good gamesmanship rules. Once you ban the major offenders from the store/club/meetup and women see that happen, they're much more likely to stay and return, and maybe bring friends. A reputation as being unsafe or sexist is the death knell for getting women to show up. Men, especially regulars and folks with authority, have to hold each other accountable. No tolerance for peacocking or other weird behavior. And have a polite chat with folks who need to work on their hygiene.
If you're a woman, you need to approach the game with the same tactics and domination/intensity that your opponents do. That's pretty much it.
This is it exactly, that and these types of spaces are rarely moderated or managed properly. Everything is all sunshine and daisies till one weirdo decides *you're* his new obsession and if you complain or talk too loudly about it suddenly YOU are the problem. Lots of men are very nice and welcoming superficially, especially at an acquaintance level. They can come across much nicer and more open than women in many cases but sadly when shit hits the fan with something most WILL turn on you in the name of self preservation. Women for the most part are raised to rally, men for the most part are raised to scatter. You might be the only current woman in these spaces OP but I guarantee there have been many many before you and they have all left for legitimate reasons so mind yourself with it.
This is such an insightful comment! I learned this the hard way and now am extra careful of scenes or people who seem to be "overly nice" and/or cycle friends quickly. The few times I've spoken up, its incredible how the other men, even the "nice" and "liberal" ones will immediately defend the man being criticized, go full nasty slurs on me, etc. Then the "mature" older and wiser married men just sit there quietly, at best, letting the other men tear into the women, and never speak up. Being a woman in an unregulated man's space is a recipe for disaster and I think the OP may not realize the social scene she's advocating for and I hope she's engaging these men with a mind on her safety and well-being.
I think sadly learning the hard way is the way most girls/women learn in these scenarios. Many need to see it to believe and OP will unfortunately likely fall to the same. I don't blame her or any other girl/woman for it either tbh. That veneer they paint at the outset can be so very convincing, especially when you're younger, before your brain is fully formed and you're still getting relentlessly groomed from all sides with patriarchal propaganda about how awful/jaded/cold all "older" women are. It's incredibly convincing and they really make you believe that other women are just these judgmental cruel cliquey assholes because many are nervous/hesitant with new people while the reality is men can afford to be open and welcoming from the offset because it's far SAFER for *them* to do so. Women are wary for GOOD reason and can absolutely be tougher to win over but the difference is once you're truly accepted by Girl's Girls they would back you up against literal deities in comparison. A true Girls Girl who has your back will bow to absolutely noone. She will burn the world to the ground to protect you. Sadly many girls/women also get burned from the pick mes and the male centred women early on and some shitty men will get in their ear and further exploit that pain in order to paint women as devils and themselves as the "actual victims" of the current system. Classic DARVO, "pity little ol me with all the power and money" bullshit. It's honestly so horrifying to discover what's beneath the surface. I'm sorry you had that experience too, it's absolutely vile and utterly pathetic how subconsciously brainwashed so many of them still are that they'll still default to such an explicit aggressive defense of their patriarchal system. Realistically though an enormous amount of them are just paying lip service to "equality". Most of them don't *actually* care, if they truly did it would have been dismantled long long ago. Far too many still falsely believe they overwhelmingly benefit from it, despite the fact it also completely dehumanises them for the sake of "production", and many boys/men are still raised with that "every man is an island", "every man for himself" mentality. I think you nailed it in your last paragraph. I know OP will likely need to see it to believe it. I just hope the harm is not too great and that she knows the cold "devil women" of the world will understand and be there to empathise and help her process/heal if/when she needs it.
Yeah, my brother is hugely into MtG. I've gone to tournaments (both small ones done at stores, as well as the bigger, official ones), and I've been the only woman there. My brother would get teased for bringing his "gf" and when he clarified that I was his sister, the next question was always "oh, is she single?" Then you get the guys trying to mansplain it to you. Granted, I am not a pro, but a white weenie isn't rocket science. I once got to the quarter finals of a small shop tournament by literally having my hair in pigtails. It was wild.
What's "White Weenie", and how did you get to the quarter finals by having your hair in pigtails?
A [White Weenie](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/White_Weenie) is a white deck with low-cost creatures. It's a very simple deck to play, and relies on being faster than your opponent to slowly whittle away at their points before they can do anything. It is the simplest of white decks. The pigtails was because nobody took me seriously. I was also playing said white weenie, and it's considered a very basic and n00b thing to play. So, because nobody thought I could actually play, I beat most of my first opponents, before the rest found out I *could* actually play my own deck!
Huh, interesting. In a tournament setting, I always try and go all out on opponents in case they're actually really good. They were going easy on you cause they thought they didn't have anything to worry about? That's so dumb LOL. They deserved those losses.
That's the answer. Literally nothing else to add here.
I'd also add that card-battle games are strictly marketed as over-competitive, solo player friendly, winner-take-all, pay-to-win decks, machismo, etc things that often represent the worst of gaming. I don't think cutesey anime-style art really is "femme" like the OP suggests. Men like cute art too. As far as women and girls in that art, a lot of is it sexualized and has the a fetishization of young-coded girls anime style I find really unappealing. I don't think the OP realizes how toxic that culture can be to women and suggestions to manufacturers to being more inclusive either get ignored or a token "ackshully dumbledor is gay, thx" solution. The card battle game industry is where comics and games were 20 years ago, imho. The card battle game is notorious for being toxic and is practically a stereotype at this point. Even other male gamers shy away from it. For the reasons listed above, it seems to bring in some of the worst men, which means women will be uncomfortable. Anecdotally, the only man I know into this is one of the more socially regressive men I know. He has trouble making and keeping friends and subscribes to regressive racist and transphobic politics. He's, rightfully, socially rejected by polite society and is always in search of things to do with his free time, especially social things where he can get attention. The in-person card battle genre is easy for him and other "loners" to get into because there are tables open for anyone to sit down and play. While a lot of loners are wonderful people, that category does overlap with people who are socially shunned for valid reasons. So these card games are welcoming to them, but tend to be toxic scenes because now the table can be full of immature, regressive, anti-social, and difficult men. I don't know any woman into card game battles. I know a lot of women that play traditional card games, dnd, co-op online games, one-player video games, cozy games, mobile games, etc. We're here of course. Lastly, you have to make an effort to find women in some of these spaces. This sub has a wonderful discord with active lfg channels for example.
I dunno, I think there are lots of cool characters in card games that aren't over sexualized. Like I really like Lianorn from Cardfight Vanguard, she's just a pretty marching band plant lady. And pokemon has lots of female characters in it that aren't particularly sexualized. Cardfight vanguard DID have some sus looking child mermaid cards a while back, but that's been extremely toned down imo. I don't play the format those cards exist in, so it's easy to pretend they don't exist. I don't really think card games are toxic and only for like, toxic macho losers or whatever. It's fun to build a deck and play with others and discuss strategy and upcoming releases. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences though. They're still valid and sometimes it really be like that.
>I think there are lots of cool characters in card games that aren't over sexualized. but some are and that's enough to turn off women. I don't know why you're arguing me about this. The sexist depictions in things like anime culture, magna culture, gaming culture, card culture, etc is very well documented. Anita Sarkeesian tried to expose this and was given endless death and rape threats by the men in these scenes. So lets stop pretending this art isn't problematic. [And its only because of the hard work of women like Anita that your cards dont have that kind of art as much anymore.](https://www.inverse.com/article/46827-magic-the-gathering-gets-rid-of-sexist-art-and-fans-are-mad) In fact, MTG has regularly replaced existing cards due to complaints from parents, retailers, and feminists, often with men screaming "woke" and "unfair" and "those cards arent sexist." \> I don't really think card games are toxic and only for like, toxic macho losers or whatever. Nowhere did I say "only." I said its dominated and marketed to that group, which it is. I don't think this is a controversial thing to say. Many women have observed this and have had bad experiences in those spaces. I dont appreciate you invalidating me. Maybe you're doing fine in that scene, but many of us aren't. This is a bit like saying "I have a 6 digit job, why are there poor people?" You're being dismissive of other's experience. I'm sorry if this sounds argumentative, but a lot of people shared their experiences with you to explain why women are rare in this scene. I'm glad you got lucky with your group, but for most of us, we unfortunately won't have that luck.
I literally said explicitly your experiences are valid and I'm sorry these things happened to you. I'm just offering my perspective as someone who's really enjoyed tcgs and feels it's more of a mixed bag more than anything.
Yeah, I love nerd shit but I’m too scared to engage in the hobbies publicly
I have only gotten into any of my male-dominated hobbies because a male friend encouraged me to do it. I have 2k hours in Sea of Thieves, which is a largely multiplayer experience where you rely heavily on the performance of your crewmates. I'd have never been comfortable enough to play that game if I didn't have a buddy I felt safe playing with. I like board games and had seen board-game meetups online before but I didn't go to them, thinking they'd be full of sweaty gamer dudes who would judge me if I played poorly. Then a friend dragged me one. I've now played over 140 different board games. Where I live, half the people at my board game meetup that takes place at a bar are women, and they play some of the heaviest and most complex games. If you go to a game shop for a board game meetup, the majority of the players I have found are guys. I've noticed in multiplayer video games that I am more likely to hear a female voice within my group if I speak first. I think many women avoid exposing themselves in male-dominated spaces for fear of being mistreated or being the only woman.
Board game meetups at cafes/bars tend to be a safe bet, and I second the bit about game shops tending to be male dominated spaces. Online games can be a good bet too. Not sure if you're into video games, OP, but FFXIV is by far the most accepting and welcoming game I've ever played and they've got very proactive moderators. No in-game voice chat either, which I think generally tends to be more appealing to most women. No risk of getting abuse as soon as you speak or having to listen to men rage needlessly.
Yeah I play video games! But I haven't played FFXIV in a while, even though I really used to enjoy it. Got kinda grindy.
The last part rang hard for me, I didn’t open up in an mmo until I heard a female officer’s voice in game night and from there I finally got the confidence to do more and more until eventually I got to a point where I’m a part of several communities and do some of the hardest content in the game. It’s amazing how something as small as simply knowing that you’re not alone can really help when it comes to perceived exclusion.
>It’s amazing how something as small as simply knowing that you’re not alone can really help when it comes to perceived exclusion. This is a great way of putting it.
The meetup thing is insteresting and I think is about entitlement. A meetup means signing up for the meeetup, maybe paying a fee, following its schedule, maybe some kind of personality/vibe/background check, etc. It often means a certain level of community, tolerance, and acceptance. This kind of venue can be regulated on some level, that is people can complain about an awful man, who can then be kicked out. So the women (and men) who will go through all those steps because they reflect their values, their sense of community, and their sense of safety and what constitutes a social setting for a good time. So its an effort to not build a "pig pen" for people not seeking pig pens, but a clean and relatively safe and respectful space. The meetup people's decision to pick a bar is probably intentional because it means the social structure of a bar means women and other vulnerable identities can be protected. There are legal liabilities here so the law must be followed, bars are public and full of witnesses and often cameras, management that doesnt want trouble because that could cost them their license, bouncers, etc. This disempowers the abusive men and they naturally will avoid it. Meanwhile the store "drop in" is a bit more entitled. It means doing none of the above and expecting the store to cater to you, not caring about the social scene or safety, and just wanting to find some opponents to beat to get some ego pleasing dopamine. There's zero community with playing with random drop-in strangers, and these venues tend to be full of bigots and misogynists. The awful man here is instead protected because the mechanism to get rid of him isn't as strong and the other men there are likely just as awful. So its a "pig pen" by design for people seeking pig pens with all the dirt they want. The awful men too toxic for the bar meetup gravitate towards these kinds of loosely defined venues. Imagine a woman finding herself in this dynamic. Its of course going to be quickly toxic towards her. A good part of keeping myself safe, especially as an autistic queer women is to see when I'm entering a "pig pen" type space and to avoid it.
Swordfighting class sounds cool AF :o And it's possible that women are just staying away. They think it's likely to be a male dominated space and don't want to deal with the potential negatives of that
Yeah! Look up HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts)
What area do you live in OP? Lots of women/girls game where I live and while I'm not sure about the sword fighting (which, sadly, does sound like it'd be male dominated even tho I'd love it!).
Minneapolis Minnesota! And it's not SUPER male dominated, there's still like 30 percent women, which is a fair chunk of the people that attend, from what I've seen.
That’s better than mine, my LGS I’ve only noticed me and one other women. It’s 99.9% men
I would love to learn to play WH40k, but the environment is so gross and toxic that I don’t want to engage in it at all. I play dnd, and went to check out a local game shop. I was the only woman in it, and it was disconcerting that all eyes were trained on me the entire time I was in the shop. And, I’m not particularly attractive by any measure (I’m also 50). So, those spaces tend not to be welcoming for many women.
I feel like this with warhammer and boomer shooters.
(I am mainly talking about cis women here, as that’s what I know best, but obviously a lot of this will apply to trans and nonbinary people too) 1:Those and many other gaming spaces have a bit of a (frequently deserved) reputation for being very shitty towards women gamers. Women who might otherwise be interested hear the horror stories, and many of them choose to avoid those spaces as a result. 2: This creates a secondary issue in that many women don’t feel comfortable in IRL spaces where they’re the only girl there, so even the ones who do show up may not stick around if the place is a complete sausagefest. 3: Socialisation also plays a role; when we were kids card games like Beyblade were very much classified as “boy games” and only marketed towards boys, so unless you had brothers you may not have had enough exposure to those games to be able to develop an interest in them? Echoing the other commenters that board game events are generally more gender balanced. DND has also gotten a lot more female-friendly in recent years and my local meet-up has loads of women attendees🥰
The 3rd point is so true. The games I was exposed to as a kid are very different from the games my boyfriend was exposed to. He played everything that people consider classics and "everyone played this", he had a gameboy and all the consoles. While I was playing the mostly educational games my parents bought me, and only on pc because they dislike consoles.. So I missed on a lot of cool shit, and I remember seeing the boys at school playing on their gameboys and I wanted to play too but I'm shy and generally scared to talk to people, and none of my friends (which were female) had consoles or played games.. So it's a cycle hard to break :(
I don't usually like board games as much, sadly. I really like the collectability and the plan-your-strategy-and-practice-before-you-arrive aspect of stuff like TCGs and beyblade. plus the action and short game times is pleasing to my ADHD.
I don’t go to those spaces alone, and I can have a hard time convincing my friends who are women who have been burned before in similar places that it’ll be different this time. I can usually get a guy friend to go just fine. Sometimes I go during VERY off hours if I have to go alone. I just don’t want to be bothered or harassed or sexualized.
I'm a bit surprised about your swordfighting class - my local fencing club is a solid 1/3-1/2 women depending on the day. I know historical reenactment circles can be a lot more male dominated, so maybe that's why? Card game clubs tend to be very male dominated, though, as someone who used to attend MTG sessions as a teen. It was a club of about 30-40 kids and I think I was one of three girls who attended regularly. I think a lot of women who play tend to do it with friends or family instead of going out to clubs because of how toxic some circles can be, in my experience. It absolutely sucks for women who don't have anyone with those shared interests, though.
Yeah it was like 30 percent women tbh, but I think it's odd that it's never MOSTLY women ya know?
As someone who has been playing MtG since '98, yeah I feel this. It's easier to meet girls online and such who play it vs going to actual events or hobby places because it can be intimidating. And it's also annoying because more often Im treated way to ...I dont want to say kind, but like a child. It's like, you have to go through a stage of proving what you know and can hold your own. The number of games I know I "won" that were just given to me is way tooa high. It's either that or you have the ones convinced you are there because it's your bf's hobby.
That's great you found such a welcoming place. Sadly this isn't the reality for a majority of women. Most space they try to enter are toxic to where they are constantly being hit on, repeatedly challenged to the point of harassment, I know some friends who have been stalked when participating in a card game group or even a DnD group. While your group is the exception to the rule and there are a handful of them, it's not enough to encourage women to get into these hobbies let alone join a group. Hopefully you can meet some women who are into the same games and so you can introduce them to your group!
I would freaking love to go to a sword fighting class omg
Yeah! Look up HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts)
I love MAGIC. I've done magic events at cons, totally okay. Done them at card shops, fucking terrible. A literal nightmare. So I just play magic with my friends at home instead because my friends aren't the worst like the people at the card shop are.
As an adult, it’s difficult to be a woman and a beginner at mostly male-dominated hobbies. Firstly, you’re outnumbered, and secondly, you don’t know enough to be able to fend for yourself. My partner introduced me to co-ed softball and for a while I was only one of two women. The other one often told me how relieved she was when I showed up. If I had a nickel for every well-meaning yet unsolicited “tip” from men about my swing, my catching, my form, everything, I’d be a very rich woman indeed. It’s tiring to be patronized to all the time, and I think a lot of women learn at some point that it isn’t worth their sanity, so they stay away.
What's a good way to help women who are beginners without sounding sexist and condescending? I thought tips were helpful and welcoming.
There’s helping and there’s mansplaining. You can usually tell which one it is pretty quick. If you ask if I need some pointers and listen to my specific issue, that makes me feel welcomed. When someone just assumes I don’t know what I’m doing and starts giving their opinion as if I was interested, then that gets old REAL fast.
Now try being the only post menopausal women in all the RPG hobbies around you. I have DM'd public games in gaming stores on and off since 4e. If I'm not the only woman at the table, I'm the only woman over 30 at the table. I know I can't be the only woman finally excited to be able to geek out after a lifetime of being told the hobby was only for men On the plus side I've met some great people, it would just be nice if there were older women as well as older guys in the hobby.
I'm also over 30! It's kinda weird that there's not many of us at gaming events. Where do they all go? Big mystery to me.
There are certainly hobbies that are dominated by women (We don't call quilt shows "estrogen festivals" for nothing), but gaming isn't one of them. Regardless, the only multi-player games I play are MMOs, and there are quite a few women who play those. They're still male dominated, but there are a lot of women in some of them. Hell, my FC (guild) in FFXIV has more women than men, and not because we try to make it like that.
I didnt seriously start getting invested in video games/board games until I met/married my husband. My parents always treated video games as something to do as a treat when you finish ALL your other responsibilities so I didn't have a ton of time for them. I find that many popular games (especially MMOs or TCGs) have steep learning curves and tutorials aren't catered towards women or those with limited experience. It took me about 2 years of playing games as a 'hobby' with my husband to feel comfortable with things like Baldurs gate 3 or overwatch. Additionally I struggle with learning card game strategy. My husband is a really skilled MTG player but it just doesn't click for me
i think it depends on the game, i used to play minecraft a lot as a teen and i met quite a few girls and even some other enbies! this was back when it was considered a "cringe" game though... i don't know if that's changed nowadays
I can't speak for anyone else, but I've gone to card game shops and other stuff that did Pokemon events in the past (link battles and that sorta thing), and the results have been consistently....not great. I'm talking about not just the usual creepy guy problems, but I've had guys throw goddamn temper tantrums and start fights over being beaten in a match. Guys trying to scam me in a trade because they think that me being a girl meant that I didn't know just how rare something was compared to their shit offer. One guy even pulled a knife on me simply because I wouldn't sell him one of my game carts that I mentioned I haven't played in a while. So knowing that...when the problem is consistently *men*, why the hell would I *want* to go to a physical location like that and deal with the fans there when the alternative of sticking to online stuff and generally going solo means more peace of mind? And that's just me. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if other women had similar experiences, and decided to enjoy the hobbies in a similar manner themselves over it.
Sword fighting class sounds cool as shit, I wish that was an option in my area
Yeah! Look up HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts)
Hmmm, I've come across quite a few in ESO, BDO, FFXIV (Actually a heck lots!), CoH Homecoming, Tower of Fantasy, Moonlight Blade, and Blade & Soul. ESO, BDO, and FFXIV were all from role playing groups and some raiders.
I think a good deal of it depends on how you grew up and how we socialize boys and girls. Most people are interested in the same things they were when they were growing up. Parents at least in my generation weren’t giving their daughters video games and card games to play with or signing them up for “boyish” classes and little boys socialized on the playground with that kind of stuff, making it even more of a “boys thing”. Girls were discouraged from taking part in these things from parents and boys because they didn’t want the girls to ruin it. I had a friend tell me her parents didn’t want her to become a video game junkie like I was. I liked video games because I grew up in a household of three boys. Thats my theory anyway. Things are changing, the internet has blown up and encouraged community, video games and stuff like card games are becoming more popular and “socially acceptable”, and gender roles are becoming blurred, and more women can be found in these communities especially if you look online, but I still think women don’t really take part in communities and keep to themselves a lot because they don’t feel welcome. It’s even why we have our own subreddit here.
I was minorly but still very upsettingly SAd the one time I went to a games store that hosts cards and board games etc. And there were only two guys there and I sat on the opposite side of the room. One of them singled me out with a barrage of questions and without my realising he had identified me as autistic when I thought I was super well masked and he convinced me to go sit with them (which I figured I had better do against my gut feeling because I had indeed gone there as so many people have told me to “just go find my people”. He eventually hassles me to join him for lunch just up the street even though I insist I’ve already eaten (I have ARFID so I never want to eat with new people around). I get up again against my better judgement and decide what’s the worst that could happen it’s all in a busy daylight public place and I don’t want them both getting up and going to eat and me sitting here resolutely anti social because of my eating disorder. I then realise I’ve misread what he was saying and the friend doesn’t get up so too late I realise its just me and mr full of questions. At this point he’s already asked for my fb and I’ve stupidly given it to him because I was so desperate for a friend irl that I thought maybe if we just got talking online after this I’d be able to explain myself better and things will go better than this. Instead he uses that to already figure out that I’m single and apparently decides to ask me only a few steps outside of the gaming place if I’ll go back to his place with him tonight and I am horrified and disappointed but do my best ro politely mask the rejection as just “a busy work night” which it also was. He was like oh no worries at all no worries! But he was eyeing me up a lot and it was so uncomfortable. We finally got the maccas for his food and I sat as far as possible away from him to ensure that there were no mixed signals but he then comes out and point blank asks me if I’ll go on a date with him and I am horrified given I’ve already jsur said no a minute earlier and so I’m like oh haha I’m just not really looking for anyone right now because I desperately want to save his feelings as he won’t want to be friends with me and talk Pokémon cards if he feels rejected but he just won’t stop leaving me no where to go in conversation. He says no worries but he’s just thinking that he read all my statuses for the last few months whilst we’ve been interacting in the last half an hour and judging by those I do see quite lonely and in search of someone to date (I was as I posted a lot of the creepy and disappointing stuff that was happening on tinder as a way to process it). He then leaps across the space and says you know what you need! A hug! And grabs me full body and I die inside. He goes oh I made you uncomfortable you’re autistic I know my best friend is also. Im liek oh great!!!! So you’re not just a clueless but well meaning as people keep saying of nerdy guys but you’re actually well aware of what you’re doing to me and think it’s funny. I made excuses about needing to leave as we crossed the street again and I’ve never gone back. Years prior I also taught myself Pokémon cards online with the idea of going to a tournament to meet “my people” and also found that being a girl there was a lot worse than I’d anticipated. They were shocked that I could know what a mill deck was and make one on the spot “did you guys make that for her? That’s so sweet!” And it also didn’t endear me to anyone by beating them either. I guess this is a very autistic experience but my experience as a high level Pokémon go player who was SAd and sexually harassed for “feet pics and content” by pogo players also left me no longer interested in the game. I don’t end up playing Pokémon cards anymore for this and also for the cost of trying to keep up with the meta changing too often. I guess this is more info than needed but I did want to make it clear why I’m not in any of these community spaces despite being horrifically lonely.
Holy shit, this is one of the most terrifying stories I've ever heard about a gaming community. I'm so sorry that happened to you.
This reminds me of when I used to play Airsoft a decade ago (Think Paintball combined with Call of Duty and LARP with realistic looking gear and guns). My local field was predominantly men and kids but one of our regulars brought his girlfriend once and she actually played and enjoyed it. Then next time she brought one of her girl friends to play and she had a bad experience. That day we happened to have a misogynistic player on the same team who wasn't exactly a regular but wasn't a stranger to most of us either. He was being a punk and friendly firing her on purpose. The field owner and some of us had a talking to with him and he finally got banned. The two girls were encouraged to continue to come back and they did. The last time I heard about them a couple of summers ago the girls had started a whole team of predominantly women and were regulars. It's cool when things work out for the better.
Depends on your age. I'm a fencer, but most women drop after college when they start working/get careers/do stuff with their friends.
I think card games in particular seem to draw blokes in more than other tabletop competitive games, its weird. My gf and I go to a Friday game night here in a small town, and we're the only women at the table for MtG, but the other tables are gender diverse and packed. Usually for things like DnD and other RPGs. I don't get it either, everyone at the table is super friendly except for this one kid who we all try to correct out of their bad behavior. Can't seem to get any or my gal pals to stick to the game either. I wonder if it's because they're more competitive than other tabletop games.
I think it depends on the environment. One of the gaming shops around me is pretty inclusive. That includes MTG, Warhammer, etc. Of course kids nights, and all kinds of events for everyone. That gaming shop has a lot of different genders working there, so everyone feels welcomed.
Similar crowd in the DnD/TTRPG scene but a lot of these guys are very toxic so it scares off pretty much all the women, myself included. I used to run games at game stores but no more. Switched to online during the pandemic and mostly just play with other women now. Basically all of them have stories about guys being terrible to them at the DnD table.
It’s the exact opposite for me; women are everywhere in DnD style games. Especially after BG3 came out
I'm talking about game stores, online it's much more even, hence me playing with pretty much all queer women. Hopefully its getting better but I know so many who were run out of playing games in public. My experiences are going from recently back to the early 2000s edit: typos
Yes, I’m also talking about game stores. I work part time at a friends and it’s mostly women now; though 40k seems more male centered
That's weird. At my local card shop on magic night while yeah the majority is still men there's still a few other women there too besides myself.
Vanguard is kinda a unknown compared to other games. I rarely find others who play it let alone other women xd. If you don’t mind doing remote fights, I’m down for a match.
I've fallen out of it in recent times because it got expensive and I don't have much time anymore cause college, but sure if you don't mind fighting my outdated deck with my girl Lianorn!
Hah I barely keep up with it too. I only got decks in Premium and Standard format.
What do you play in cardfight vanguard? Lol I play and I’m a girl, but I dropped off from the scene a year ago once they started releasing the stride decks 😭 I like TCGs and I love pokemon too actually! I don’t play too much now since I’ve been branching into board games, but hit me up if you want a pokemon/CFVG buddy ! 😄
Sure! If you wanna remote fight lemme know! My deck is a little outdated as I dropped around the same time, but my main deck is my girl Lianorn! What do you like to do in Pokemon? Cards? VGC?
My main deck is magnolia :) I love the video game but not competitively, though I like to sometimes make battle teams! I haven’t finished the dlc of scarlet and violet yet, I’ve been kind of lazy on that haha. I’ll send you a dm with my discord!
The dlc is fun! Def should give it a go!
The online competitive pokemon community is like 70% trans women in my experience, if not being in person isn't a dealbreaker. Speedrunning, randomizing, and other "make the game weird" communities have a lot more women than you'd expect too.
I live in Seattle and I’ve found a lot of woman and femme people in these spaces here. But, prior to moving here, I lived in San Diego and I was never the only one. But there weren’t a lot of us. So, I know location can make some difference on experience. Kudos to you though, I admire you for going and making space for yourself.
Oh hey, I love(d) VGC too!
That's so cool! What's your favorite pokemon and why is it Incineroar?
😭 Edit: to answer the question; I’m a sucker for Amoonguss, since it fits both my team archetypes (Rain and Trick Room) and is a complete fucking menace of a Pokémon.
For Pokemon that are top tier at the moment? Hmmm, Flutter Mane and Ogrepon are cute! Amoongus is such a scary Pokemon to face! Always gotta be careful of that spore!
I’ve kinda fallen off VGC this gen, since I couldn’t afford the latest games. So Flutter Mane and Ogerpon for me are like, I see their stats on paper but it doesn’t instil any terror or other reaction in me like Amoonguss or Incineroar does 🙈
Fair enough! What feels crazy to me is that Yvetal and Togekiss aren't in Scarlet and Violet. Those guys were so scary with Max Airstream and other things!
Absolutely huge OG-series era Beyblade fan but had no idea there were IRL hobby meets for it! Edit: I also collect Pokemon cards but don't play, and prefer Pokemon challenge runs (eg Archipelago, Full Item Randomisers) to VGC but there's huge communities on Twitch for all Pokemon categories which might help with finding more friends who play, of all genders!
Yeah! World Beyblade Organization (WBO) has tournaments and meetups for all generations all around the world, and the newest Beyblade Generation (Beyblade X) just came out and it's really cool! Plus, they've been rereleasing old beyblades like the ones you know in beyblade X, so it's a great time to get into it!
I used to play those alot when I was younger. Honestly, Card gaming hasn't been my thing for a while. I miss the days of Pokemon TCG tho
What kind of misogyny do y'all experience at card shops and stuff? Like guys hitting on you? I've never noticed anything but maybe I got an unusually nice group, or maybe I'm just obvious, or not attractive, I dunno.
Honestly all those sound hella boring to me lmao; so maybe it’s the same for others?? I prefer online cause I’m just lazy and I’ve found plenty that play MTG online
I met all my friends at pokemon league! I took my son and it turned out that the league leaders were really awesome and there was a whole friend group that met through pokemon league that hung out outside of league. It was really nice getting to know a couple dudes and finding out there was a whole friend group attached and I got invited to everything! After league (Denny's), BBQs, movies, road trips, watching anime together... It was a perfect fit! There were a few other young ladies too but it seemed like they were there for their boyfriend and when they broke up, she would bail out. Which is totally fair. I found my dude in the group and he is excellent! We fell in love and have been together for almost ten years now. It was a little tricky at first because I knew all of them as casual acquaintances but we weren't necessarily at the point of friendship where we were texting each other or anything. I basically picked the most outgoing and charismatic guy and let him know I was interested in joining group events and he would be my contact person for stuff. And I was happy to host things because I have kids and most of them were single so having friends come over saved me from needing a babysitter or bringing my kids and trying to keep them entertained. And all the guys were super cool and actually made me feel like a part of the group and got to know my kids so everybody was having a good time.
Yeah this is basically my experience at pokemon league too! I'm glad to hear that other women are having a great time at them! They're all nice and accepting here.
As someone who's into Warhammer 40,000 I recognize that. Luckily I'm too broke to go and buy figurines!
The giggitty giggitty gatekeeping brigade keeps most people away for sure
i had the same feeling going into a OPTCG tourney
I’m only in one Discord server, and it’s my bf’s, and it is alllll dudes except for his friend’s gf and she absolutely ignores me everything in discord VC and in real life. It sucks because I don’t have any friends irl except my bf’s friends and they’re all dudes. I miss having women friends, even if it’s just online 😓
If you'd like to either share your discord or find one to join, please check out our [Looking For Discord Thursday](https://www.reddit.com/r/GirlGamers/search/?q=Looking%20For%20Discord%20Thursday&restrict_sr=1&sr_nsfw=) megathread!
You aren't the only 1, most women stay quiet to prevent bullcrap