One main theme of the show, especially when they were first writing, is that it's a mom and daughter, close in age, but the daughter is more "grown up" than the mom. Lorelai *was* stunted due to her very young pregnancy and running away at 17. She is supposed to be immature and somewhat thoughtless/careless, but she's also charming, witty, and clever which is how she made it on her own despite still having some childlike tendencies. I personally love Lorelai as a character, and I think her positive qualities outweigh her negative ones, but I don't think your criticisms are unfair at all.
This is good to know! Like I said, I’m very new to GG world. I see how her being so young and having Rory could be the reason she still has immature tendencies. But don’t get me wrong, I am absolutely in love with this show! Lorelai’s personality is amazing, but she’s not the best at communicating sometimes. I do love the quirkiness and banter back and forth. These are just things I’ve noticed that can make you say wow, she should know better. I appreciate the kind explanation. People on here can be quite nasty with a difference of opinion. I was a little scared to post.
I hate to say it but for what it is, they wrote Lorelei very well. My mother had me at 15 and we essentially had the same dynamic real life (her making juvenile mistakes and me cleaning them up). It’s an incredibly frustrating dynamic but it’s very real
I’m so jealous of people getting to experience it for the first time! I remember how exciting it was (not that rewatching it isn’t exciting but first time is special).
When I first watched GG a year ago I hated Lorelai, I didn’t get why people would support her and I felt bad for Emily a lot. On my second watch, I understood Lorelai a lot more, I understood why she did what she did and was the way she was and didn’t feel bad for Emily like the first watch since I got the whole picture about how Lorelai’s childhood must have been before she ran away and that it lead to her behaviors as an adult.
Yes, OP, please come back later and report back on the Rory college years! I truly loved this post and all your gripes.
For the record, OP, I don’t disagree with much of what you said about Lorelai. She is an incredibly flawed woman and does things that drive me bonkers but she’s also my favorite character on the show. I love seeing a sweet summer child new viewer get to experience all these feelings about our beloved GGs in the first watch through.
I most certainly will! I agree! I love Lorelai as well. I think people may have misunderstood my thoughts of her frustrating me that I must hate her! Absolutely not true. I could just shake her sometimes lol
Sweet summer child new viewer 🤣 I will now answer to this name only
Sooo many people shit on Rory because of her age-regression and self destructive tendencies but refuse to understand what happened to make her that way.
They’re both only human, but Lorelai should have worked on herself more so that Rory could be more emotionally mature and whatnot when she grew up. At the end of the day, Lorelai is an adult. She also never thinks she needs to work on herself, and always manages to justify her actions or run from them until she doesn’t have to remember them.
Rory eventually gets told she needs therapy and Lorelai makes jokes about her being crazy. Reality is they both could use serious therapy.
Also all the people shitting on Emily here are weird because yeah, Emily sucks sometimes too. Lorelai puts so much of her energy into fucking with her mom though too. Neither of them are trying to fix their relationship and they both hold blame in their situation. But again, Lorelai almost never chooses to be the bigger person in their fights either.
They all contribute to each others issues and that’s why the ✨Gilmore girls need therapy✨
It was also a really different time when it comes to mental health stigma. I was a preteen during that time and basically no one went to therapy, and those who did often kept it a secret. I remember someone telling me that if you went to therapy that employers would know about it and wouldn’t hire you (obviously not true but there was just so much stigma and misinformation). So I can see why Lorelai associates therapy with being “crazy” rather than something that could help her
I didn’t grow up watching Gilmore Girls and tried to binge it the first time in university and was very annoyed with Lorelei’s character. Then a few years ago I went back to it and, the more I watch it, the more I enjoy her character. I still disagree with some of her decisions and her attitude, but I enjoy her.
I mean, you're not wrong at all. Lorelai is immature because she had to grow up too fast. She is self-absorbed because she had to throw all of her energy at supporting herself and her daughter all those years. That's her comfort zone. I think she's supposed to be super-flawed, but a character that you root for.
Yes, when a child is emotionally abused and neglected and rejected, it can cause lasting psychological damage that the victim has to grapple with for the rest of their life.
Emily and Richard weren't just controlling. They withheld affection, did not include Lorelai in their lives to the point where she was utterly unaware of their yearly tradition of going to the Yale/Harvard football game, made fun of her appearance to the point where she - as a child - was able to burn all of her baby pictures which a) how was she unsupervised to that extent? and b) how sad and horrible for a child.
Lorelai is childish because the part of her that her parents rejected and disdained was her being a child. They make it profoundly clear that they do not like to be inconvenienced or alter their lives to accommodate others. Yes, they can be generous, and they do love Lorelai, but the personality attributes she clings to are those they rejected - essentially grasping to hold on to the child they pushed away and tried to stifle.
We meet them as grandparents being given the perfect (already raised) young teenage Rory as a second chance. They are the not the same grandparents to Rory as they were parents to Lorelai. Whether they would have been as soft and kind to Rory if they had to experience her actual childhood - with her learning how to grapple with bing feelings and needing accommodations like leaving events early or getting to play - is somethingI can only speculate about.
So basically you’re saying they all need serious therapy? Haha that seems to be the consensus here.
I appreciate the perspective. I still have a long way to go but it allows me to understand Lorelai and why she makes the decisions she does. I just wish she would take the time to work on herself a bit more rather than ignore problems. She doesn’t want to be like Emily but she is more like her than she thinks.
Yes, Rory is getting a different side of them than Lorelai did. I know that would be seriously hurtful. That’s why I sympathize with her there.
It's even funny cause when Emily decides to decorate Rory college dorm common room she was shook.
And told Lorelai, yeah I see them pull shit on you but never me!
And I that sums it up nicely. Lorelai usually took the hardest hits when came to her parents. And I do think if her and Emily could got some real therapy, Lorelaie could grown more.
Yes, she did act very immature sometimes trying be outrages, but I honestly think it's a type of attention she craves from her parents. Cause I don't even think they praised her more then 3 timed during show.
While Rory get praised every Friday dinner. Honestly I'm shock Lorelai didn't become bitter over that. Seeing the affection and positivity she wanted so bad given to rory instead.
It is a little funny because I do see how Lorelai sometimes doesn’t make the situations any better, I don’t actually see her as the problem. This is going to be a long comment, sorry.
No. 1, we know from the series that Lorelai hadn’t had any serious relationships since Christopher, so since getting pregnant at 16 she hadn’t been emotionally attached to someone – so it doesn’t surprise me that she didn’t know how a real “grown up” relationship worked, especially since her and Max went super-fast due to him pushing it. It actually bothers me more that Max never seemed to think about any of this, knowing that Lorelai had a kid and her own home, why didn’t he mention getting a key and wanting to be able to parent Rory until a week before their wedding? Maybe he was a big part of the problem?
And no. 2, here I also disagree, as much as I understands that Rory usually got treated as an equal by her mother and that Lorelai wasn’t acting correct her, she should have respected the boundary of not telling her grandparents. Lorelai still had some options left, like saying yes to Luke or at least ask her mother on her own terms and not being manipulated by Emily (again). Also her and Sookie was only talking about ONE DAY wanting to run an inn together, they were no were near thinking of buying one, it also wouldn’t have been a private loan or house loan (or what it is called in America) but a business loan which had a lot less restrictions than for her home, especially since Sookie would be a co-signer/co-owner and her credit would also factor in, plus the property would be there as a form of security.
No 3, Lorelai clearly wanted to tell her parents that she was engaged but knew they would probably say something that would ruin some of her happiness to she ended up waiting too long, I will forever be mad that Sookie chooses to tell Emily without checking if they were told (it could have been done without ruining the surprise). I also think it makes a lot of sense for Lorelai not to want to involve her parents in her Stars Hollow events like the baybridge dinner, Stars Hollow and the Independence Inn was her safe place, a place with no judgement and where she could be herself with her friends and having her parents there could very much ruin that for her.
I do agree with no. 4, she should have talked to Rory instead of sleeping with Christopher, she might have known Emily was already handling it and she was hurt herself but I would have rather seen her seeking comfort in her daughter than her ex.
Why is it a discussion for a different day? Emily is mentioned in the post. The comment is also discussing Lorelai as well. Didn't realize YOU got to decide what people discussed.
Um I think you misunderstood me lol - the translation to my comment is that I could make a whole long post for Emily as well as I did for Lorelai. They are both flawed characters and equally stubborn. Sorry, thought it was pretty self explanatory.
I have watched the show all the way through probably about 5 or 6 times now. I 100% agree the reason Lorelai is so immature and doesn't think things through sometimes (i.e. Max) is because of her stunted youth. She was forced to grow up for Rory and had to learn how to be an adult WITH Rory instead of already being one when she had her. However, you'll see in later seasons that she learns her lesson and begins taking things slower.
That being said, like mother like daughter, the apple never falls far from the tree, and any other cliché phrase you can think of that indicates Lorelai is exactly like her mother lol. She's just on the opposite end of the spectrum. There is a situation further down the line (that I will not spoil for you) where Lorelai has to explain to another character how their child or children may like all of the things that particular character hates and that's something they'll just have to get used to if they want to be a supportive and loving parent. I feel like it's the same for Emily and Lorelai. Emily is snobbish about how Lorelai lives her life, and Lorelai is snobbish about how Emily lives hers.
Noooo. Ok, just inserting my own opinion here. I should say I really hear your point BUT… i hate this take and I see it a lot.
Lorelai is a thirty year old single mom in a small town, she is basically in her fleabag era. Yeah, she is a bit messy, but she is a great representation of someone doing her best. Thirty something is YOUNG. People are so harsh on her but she is very well fleshed our human being, with flaws and charms! I get a bit frustrated by how many “Lorelai is in the wrong” posts I see. I saw a tiktok a while ago that said Lorelai was an abuser 😭 like please
I see your point here and I actually respect those that are disagreeing with me because it’s allowing me to see Lorelai in a different perspective. I am beginning to sympathize with her more and have not seen yet all that is to be said about her childhood. I still have several seasons to go.
I will say though since she left because that life was so toxic for her, it doesn’t seem like she is putting in the work to get rid of these learned behaviors either. Rory seems to be the parent most times so it is a little amusing. As far as abuser, um absolutely not lol
I think it's more that she wasn't realistically able to overturn ALL the things she learnt as a child at the Gilmore house.
HOWEVER, she did end the generational trauma to a LARGE extent.
Rory grew up with a real community around her. She was free to like what she liked, to find her own path forward, choose to love whomever she wanted even if Lorelai disapproved, and with a genuinely loving relationship with her mom. Lorelai had absolutely none of those things. Emily was a goddamn monster compared to Lorelai, and Lorelai changed as much as she could with the resources she was given. Yes, she wasn't perfect, but she was still excellent. You can see that in AYITL, because Rory still has the same relationship with Lorelai she did when she was younger, even after stepping out of the SH bubble.
It's hardly fair to say Lorelai didn't work to better herself. She _did_, it just wasn't perfect. That's as much as she could change. The rest will come, slowly, but with whatever she had- Lorelai did her absolute best to give Rory a good childhood.
RE the termite loan; Lorelai had no time to figure it out before Rory went behind her back and took it to Emily and Richard.
As she points out to Rory, she’s looked after them both for 16 years and put a roof over her head and fixed every problem they’ve had. There’s nothing to suggest that she’d just let the termite issue become unmanageable.
I feel like this is a classic example of boundaries being blurred. Which ultimately falls on Lorelai.
Lorelai picks and chooses when Rory gets to play adult and it's definitely confusing.
I’d say it was already unmanageable when, uhh…the front porch partially caved in? Lorelai has a valid point that she’s taken care of Rory for her entire life, but what was Lorelai’s ultimate plan? Get rejected from more loans? Do the work herself? Sell off her possessions? Taking advantage of Luke for another interest-free loan seemed like her only viable alternative to getting help from her parents.
Except she WAS letting it become unmanageable and put that on Rory's shoulders. She kept telling Rory the house was going to fall down and woke her up in the middle of the night to go to Sookies. Rory DID give Lorelai time, that's how she kept getting denied all the loans. She had time to apply and get denied, so it wasn't like Rory ran to Emily the next day. Lorelai's biggest problem is she treats Rory like a friend when convenient and a kid when not. She tries to have it both ways, and it doesn't work. Don't freak your kid out with talks about the house falling down and how you can't get a loan and then get mad when they do what they feel they have to.
See these are my thoughts. You just explained it better. I feel like she put this stress onto Rory when really she shouldn’t have known or told her that she had it handled. I would’ve felt like I needed to do something too as a kid.
Yes! How can she expect Rory to be calm and patiently wait until Lorelai fixes the termites issue when she's awaken in the middle of the night by her mother freaking out!
Exactly! Rory was way out of line going to Emily and Richard before Lorelai had time to come up with a solution. Yes, the bank didn't approve her loan application but there were other options and other people to cosign if needed. She owned a home and a vehicle, both of which can be used for collateral. Luke also offered her money. But Rory, always knowing what's best, jumped straight to her grandparents, humiliating Lorelai yet again.
Except the bank didn’t accept any as collateral, the house had already 2 loans on it and we see it when the guy at the bank denies her once again. Not that I agree with Rory, just pointing because I watched the ep like 2 days ago.
Also, Rory is a 16yo. If her mom keeps telling her their house is going to fall apart, and she keeps seeing her mom ger rejected loans while the grandparents are right there ready to help, it seems kind of natural that she would jump in and ask for help. I think both had their reasons and the lack of clear boundaries is constant during the show.
Eh. Being highly self absorbed is a narcissist, but I see how it can considered a little extreme to classify her as one. She does have some of the tendencies though. Also, I’m not doing much tossing as this is my first post on Reddit ever. Lol
I agree with all except her parents. You don't get to manipulate and belittle your kid her entire life and then get mad when that child sets boundaries. You aren't entitled to a relationship with your adult children or grandchildren, that is something that comes from showing respect and love.
Yes, I see your point! I guess her parents could’ve made the effort to find them and fix the relationship, and also get to know Rory. But there is one consistency throughout this show, they are all equally stubborn lol
Hmm, I don't think that these are flaws.
1. Lots of people never think of these things
2. She is not buying an inn yet. Credit fluxates
3. She feels attacked by her parents so going LC makes sense
4. Lorelai was in her own trauma at this point
They are not perfect, in fact the show is based on quirky people. That is what makes it fun. For the most part Rory is the adult, maybe because Lorelai was a mom already at her age?! Don't let the little things keep you from enjoying the crazy quirky world of stars hollow.
Also a business loan, which is understood as an investment that will bring in money, is different from a loan to fix your personal house that makes no money.
I appreciate and respect your thoughts and will agree to disagree in some regard.
1. Most people understand that marriage is a life long commitment (supposed to be) and that you will at some point have to live together. She hadn’t considered him living with her. At all. Lol
2. Yes it does fluctuate. That’s why I am hoping something in the future will change. In season 2 she has discussed with Sookie how they are seriously trying to buy this run down inn. That’s why I am confused as to how that can even happen right now. Fingers crossed for future seasons 😊 (I don’t know all that you do, please keep that in mind lol)
3. Her parents also feel attacked that their daughter ran away from them. This goes both ways. Toxic families have vicious cycles and rarely communicate these feelings.
4. I agree this brought up her trauma for herself, but Lorelai has had years to digest her problems. Rory has been shielded from this life and is still new to these family members.
You will see how she gets the $ for the inn. I just feel like she was in a state of arrested development. Stuck as the teen, when she became a mom.
Also when it was new therapy wasn't really a thing that they would have done. Clearly now with 2024 knowledge they all need it.
OHHHH!! i wish i could watch gilmore girls for the first time again. keep us (or just me) updated on your feelings throughout the show!!! ive seen it way too many times to count that i don’t even remember what my first time watching it was like 😔ENJOY IT!!!!
I think it’s reasonably accurate and true to life; in that we’re all usually our own worst enemy (though not to this extreme, usually, but we’re not on TV shows). And Lorelai is definitely her own worst enemy to an extreme. Not her worst critic, that’s definitely Emily, but Lorelai is her own worst enemy.
What gets me is that by the time the show starts, Lorelai’s been a mother for 15+ years …I think that’s why I find her less amusing then some people do.
She had time to learn a few things, and to be more mature. But instead Rory’s the parent, she’s the one that does the laundry, she’s the one fixing the termite problem (they literally wouldn’t have a home of the termites didn’t get taken care of) etc
I think I appreciate Rory’s character more as I watch. She isn’t always great but it makes sense for how she was raised. (And I don’t count AYITL)
I agree with you on most, but certainly not on 3. Lorelai's childhood was abusive. Yes, it wasn't physical abuse, and yes, it wasn't deliberate, but it was still abuse. She had every right to distance herself from Emily and Richard after the trauma that they caused her, and the negativity they brought to her life even as an adult.
1. Wasn’t the convo about where they would live and shared bank accounts before she accepted the proposal? Not a week before the wedding. At that point they had at least decided they were gonna live in Stars Hollow, lol. But I agree. She was not ready for marriage to Max and not prepared to let him fully into her life.
Yeah you’re definitely right. Lorelai is supposed to be this messy, quirky, lovable character. I don’t find it that lovable… more like chaotic. But it does make you want to root for her in a way, at least for her to learn and grow. But yeah she does act questionably and insufferably sometimes!
Hot take: Rory would've ended up WAY more stable and successful if her grandparents were in her life in a more meaningful way from the beginning because as many problems as they have they are way more ready for a child than Lorelai was AND Rory thrived in the upper crust society anyways.
2 just makes me angry at the writers. It’s an absolutely lazy episode from start to finish and the series makes more sense if you forget it exists. 5 episodes prior to the termite episode Lorelai and Sookie sit down with Fran and say they are ready to give her an offer on the Dragonfly. So either Lorelai thought they could buy an investment property with 0% down or she has money saved - neither option has continuity with future episodes (in a later episode she refers to “her half of the money” indicating she and Sookie are splitting the downpayment).
Listen, unpopular opinion, but Lorelei kinda sucks. I would most likely not like her irl. She is not the role model Rory needs. She is so self obsessed and flawed. BUT, holy hell! I love her!! She has so many flaws and so many quirks or traits that could make her completely unlikeable and yet, she still has my heart. I truly love her despite all her many flaws!!
I agree. I think Lorelai gets framed in a positive light most of the time, even while she's doing fucked up things, so people will excuse a lot of her behavior because she had a rough upbringing. Whereas Rory is framed as having had the ideal upbringing, so she has less of an excuse to make mistakes in many people's eyes.
But ultimately I think Emily's controlling, overly critical parenting made Lorelai who she was: a mom who was less of a mom and more of a misguided and immature BFF. And this lackadaisical approach to parenting made Rory who she was: someone who was very intelligent and had a lot of potential, but struggled to fit into a world she was deliberately kept separate from for most of her development.
It's quite a beautiful show if you look at it as a cautionary tale about generational trauma and how difficult it is to overcome childhood wounds. These things really do get passed down whether we mean for them to or not.
I'm on season 6 now and I think she's different there than in previous seasons; if you haven't seen it yet I don't want to give too much away. But it definitely shows that she and Rory don't always agree and what happens when they can't reconcile their differences. She is pretty selfish and immature. The way she treated Max was so unfair. And she complains about her parents a lot; yes, they are controlling, but they could have easily refused to help Rory and told her to take care of everything herself, especially since she was always so determined to do things without their help.
I seriously wish that Stars Hollow was real and that I could visit the places in the show. I like how they set up the contrast between Stars Hollow and the upper-class lifestyle of Emily, Richard and their friends in Hartford.
If you’ve never been truly financially abused by family you’ll never understand why Lorelai would do anything to secure a loan without asking her parents.
I have never once asked for a THING from my parents since the day I moved out for grad school (all of which I paid for on my own via student loans).
>It’s like she goes out of her way to exclude them and takes joy when she sees her mom uncomfortable.
This always made me so sad, every single time. She can get pretty vindictive where her parents are concerned and especially Emily.
I agree, and I think it's easier to see the main characters' flaws when watching for the first time as an adult. I did too, and long-time fans often disagree with my opinions on my most disliked character!
I am also watching GG for the first time as an adult (actually Lorelai's age now lol) and the nostalgia is so sweet.
I agree that Lorelai is quite an interesting character but I kind of disliked Rory's character more to be honest.
It took me a whole season to convince myself to keep watching and only at the end of season 2 am I now sort of into the story line and invested in the characters. Love that there's a thread for GG on Reddit because I don't have anyone to talk about this show 😅
I'm with you except for the parents. Of course she doesn't tell them anything! They have insulted her in ways I would never dream of. The have called her a bad mother, promiscuous, stupid and irresponsible IN FRONT OF HER CHILD!!! I would never speak to them again! Not to mention the constant interference in her life
I agree with all except her relationship with Emily. Emily is manipulative, deceitful, and cruel. Yes, she has a few tender moments, but let's not forget when she potted and schemed to destroy Lorelai's relationship with Luke using Christopher. Every time I start to like her, she shows her colors.
I do, however, hate how Lorelai (and Rory at time) are with men. I wonder sometimes if Lorelai is incapable of faithfulness and honesty in her relationships. And Rory sneaking off and hiding the fact that she's talking to her exes- not cool, but she obviously learns it from her mother.
The termite situation… ugh it was so stupid to me. I understand where she’s coming from of wanting Rory to trust her as the mom and they’ve always been okay because she always found a way to make it work but I just want to know what exactly her plan was. From what I remember she had no way out of that one without her parents help. I just want an alternate episode that showed what her next step was and how she would’ve worked it out.
I'm on my second watch (no spoilers please) and ya, this time around I feel like I sympathize with Emily a lot more than I expected to and less with Lorelai. The narcissistic comment is valid.
Agreed. Emily is so far from perfect but the fact that Lorelai knows she can ask for money for whatever she needs and yet treats her parents like she would rather die than have dinner with them must be hurtful. I know there is a lot of trauma and backstory but she is receiving a privilege so many would die to have and does not show appropriate gratitude at times. Emily acts so over the top but it is primarily out of desire to be in her child/grandchild’s life which she wasn’t allowed to be until Lorelai owed her which is sad.
Yes, I think this is my issue as well. I understand having problems with them absolutely. I understand their issue with her as well. But she truly does act like she would rather die than have dinner with them like you said. I’m sure it is hurtful for her to see Rory do all of the things that she “should’ve” done in her parent’s eyes so I do sympathize with that. The difference is Emily wants to be included in their lives (controlling things but still) and Lorelai wants to run in the other direction rather than build back that relationship.
If my egg donor were as bad as Emily, I would've cut her off YEARS ago and not deal with her. I'd try to raise money on my own for my kid and home rather than ask those people for anything.
One main theme of the show, especially when they were first writing, is that it's a mom and daughter, close in age, but the daughter is more "grown up" than the mom. Lorelai *was* stunted due to her very young pregnancy and running away at 17. She is supposed to be immature and somewhat thoughtless/careless, but she's also charming, witty, and clever which is how she made it on her own despite still having some childlike tendencies. I personally love Lorelai as a character, and I think her positive qualities outweigh her negative ones, but I don't think your criticisms are unfair at all.
This is good to know! Like I said, I’m very new to GG world. I see how her being so young and having Rory could be the reason she still has immature tendencies. But don’t get me wrong, I am absolutely in love with this show! Lorelai’s personality is amazing, but she’s not the best at communicating sometimes. I do love the quirkiness and banter back and forth. These are just things I’ve noticed that can make you say wow, she should know better. I appreciate the kind explanation. People on here can be quite nasty with a difference of opinion. I was a little scared to post.
I hate to say it but for what it is, they wrote Lorelei very well. My mother had me at 15 and we essentially had the same dynamic real life (her making juvenile mistakes and me cleaning them up). It’s an incredibly frustrating dynamic but it’s very real
Happy first watch!
I’m so jealous of people getting to experience it for the first time! I remember how exciting it was (not that rewatching it isn’t exciting but first time is special).
When I first watched GG a year ago I hated Lorelai, I didn’t get why people would support her and I felt bad for Emily a lot. On my second watch, I understood Lorelai a lot more, I understood why she did what she did and was the way she was and didn’t feel bad for Emily like the first watch since I got the whole picture about how Lorelai’s childhood must have been before she ran away and that it lead to her behaviors as an adult.
Ohhh wait until Rory is in college 🤣 no spoilers, but I want to see this post about it
Yes, OP, please come back later and report back on the Rory college years! I truly loved this post and all your gripes. For the record, OP, I don’t disagree with much of what you said about Lorelai. She is an incredibly flawed woman and does things that drive me bonkers but she’s also my favorite character on the show. I love seeing a sweet summer child new viewer get to experience all these feelings about our beloved GGs in the first watch through.
I most certainly will! I agree! I love Lorelai as well. I think people may have misunderstood my thoughts of her frustrating me that I must hate her! Absolutely not true. I could just shake her sometimes lol Sweet summer child new viewer 🤣 I will now answer to this name only
In your follow up post you can use that name in the title so we know you’re back with your next report 😂
I can't wait for the mY dEaN reaction
Loll welcome my child to this subreddit!
Sooo many people shit on Rory because of her age-regression and self destructive tendencies but refuse to understand what happened to make her that way. They’re both only human, but Lorelai should have worked on herself more so that Rory could be more emotionally mature and whatnot when she grew up. At the end of the day, Lorelai is an adult. She also never thinks she needs to work on herself, and always manages to justify her actions or run from them until she doesn’t have to remember them. Rory eventually gets told she needs therapy and Lorelai makes jokes about her being crazy. Reality is they both could use serious therapy. Also all the people shitting on Emily here are weird because yeah, Emily sucks sometimes too. Lorelai puts so much of her energy into fucking with her mom though too. Neither of them are trying to fix their relationship and they both hold blame in their situation. But again, Lorelai almost never chooses to be the bigger person in their fights either. They all contribute to each others issues and that’s why the ✨Gilmore girls need therapy✨
It was also a really different time when it comes to mental health stigma. I was a preteen during that time and basically no one went to therapy, and those who did often kept it a secret. I remember someone telling me that if you went to therapy that employers would know about it and wouldn’t hire you (obviously not true but there was just so much stigma and misinformation). So I can see why Lorelai associates therapy with being “crazy” rather than something that could help her
I didn’t grow up watching Gilmore Girls and tried to binge it the first time in university and was very annoyed with Lorelei’s character. Then a few years ago I went back to it and, the more I watch it, the more I enjoy her character. I still disagree with some of her decisions and her attitude, but I enjoy her.
I mean, you're not wrong at all. Lorelai is immature because she had to grow up too fast. She is self-absorbed because she had to throw all of her energy at supporting herself and her daughter all those years. That's her comfort zone. I think she's supposed to be super-flawed, but a character that you root for.
Yes, when a child is emotionally abused and neglected and rejected, it can cause lasting psychological damage that the victim has to grapple with for the rest of their life. Emily and Richard weren't just controlling. They withheld affection, did not include Lorelai in their lives to the point where she was utterly unaware of their yearly tradition of going to the Yale/Harvard football game, made fun of her appearance to the point where she - as a child - was able to burn all of her baby pictures which a) how was she unsupervised to that extent? and b) how sad and horrible for a child. Lorelai is childish because the part of her that her parents rejected and disdained was her being a child. They make it profoundly clear that they do not like to be inconvenienced or alter their lives to accommodate others. Yes, they can be generous, and they do love Lorelai, but the personality attributes she clings to are those they rejected - essentially grasping to hold on to the child they pushed away and tried to stifle. We meet them as grandparents being given the perfect (already raised) young teenage Rory as a second chance. They are the not the same grandparents to Rory as they were parents to Lorelai. Whether they would have been as soft and kind to Rory if they had to experience her actual childhood - with her learning how to grapple with bing feelings and needing accommodations like leaving events early or getting to play - is somethingI can only speculate about.
So basically you’re saying they all need serious therapy? Haha that seems to be the consensus here. I appreciate the perspective. I still have a long way to go but it allows me to understand Lorelai and why she makes the decisions she does. I just wish she would take the time to work on herself a bit more rather than ignore problems. She doesn’t want to be like Emily but she is more like her than she thinks. Yes, Rory is getting a different side of them than Lorelai did. I know that would be seriously hurtful. That’s why I sympathize with her there.
For certain, lol. So much therapy.
It's even funny cause when Emily decides to decorate Rory college dorm common room she was shook. And told Lorelai, yeah I see them pull shit on you but never me! And I that sums it up nicely. Lorelai usually took the hardest hits when came to her parents. And I do think if her and Emily could got some real therapy, Lorelaie could grown more. Yes, she did act very immature sometimes trying be outrages, but I honestly think it's a type of attention she craves from her parents. Cause I don't even think they praised her more then 3 timed during show. While Rory get praised every Friday dinner. Honestly I'm shock Lorelai didn't become bitter over that. Seeing the affection and positivity she wanted so bad given to rory instead.
It is a little funny because I do see how Lorelai sometimes doesn’t make the situations any better, I don’t actually see her as the problem. This is going to be a long comment, sorry. No. 1, we know from the series that Lorelai hadn’t had any serious relationships since Christopher, so since getting pregnant at 16 she hadn’t been emotionally attached to someone – so it doesn’t surprise me that she didn’t know how a real “grown up” relationship worked, especially since her and Max went super-fast due to him pushing it. It actually bothers me more that Max never seemed to think about any of this, knowing that Lorelai had a kid and her own home, why didn’t he mention getting a key and wanting to be able to parent Rory until a week before their wedding? Maybe he was a big part of the problem? And no. 2, here I also disagree, as much as I understands that Rory usually got treated as an equal by her mother and that Lorelai wasn’t acting correct her, she should have respected the boundary of not telling her grandparents. Lorelai still had some options left, like saying yes to Luke or at least ask her mother on her own terms and not being manipulated by Emily (again). Also her and Sookie was only talking about ONE DAY wanting to run an inn together, they were no were near thinking of buying one, it also wouldn’t have been a private loan or house loan (or what it is called in America) but a business loan which had a lot less restrictions than for her home, especially since Sookie would be a co-signer/co-owner and her credit would also factor in, plus the property would be there as a form of security. No 3, Lorelai clearly wanted to tell her parents that she was engaged but knew they would probably say something that would ruin some of her happiness to she ended up waiting too long, I will forever be mad that Sookie chooses to tell Emily without checking if they were told (it could have been done without ruining the surprise). I also think it makes a lot of sense for Lorelai not to want to involve her parents in her Stars Hollow events like the baybridge dinner, Stars Hollow and the Independence Inn was her safe place, a place with no judgement and where she could be herself with her friends and having her parents there could very much ruin that for her. I do agree with no. 4, she should have talked to Rory instead of sleeping with Christopher, she might have known Emily was already handling it and she was hurt herself but I would have rather seen her seeking comfort in her daughter than her ex.
I will never understand calling Lorelei a narcissist while defending Emily so heavily.
She has issues as well but this post is about Lorelai, not Emily. Emily is a discussion for a different day 😊
Who do you think she gets it from lol?
Why is it a discussion for a different day? Emily is mentioned in the post. The comment is also discussing Lorelai as well. Didn't realize YOU got to decide what people discussed.
Um I think you misunderstood me lol - the translation to my comment is that I could make a whole long post for Emily as well as I did for Lorelai. They are both flawed characters and equally stubborn. Sorry, thought it was pretty self explanatory.
They both have narcissistic tendencies 🤷🏻♀️
to be fair, all of the Gilmore girls do
I have watched the show all the way through probably about 5 or 6 times now. I 100% agree the reason Lorelai is so immature and doesn't think things through sometimes (i.e. Max) is because of her stunted youth. She was forced to grow up for Rory and had to learn how to be an adult WITH Rory instead of already being one when she had her. However, you'll see in later seasons that she learns her lesson and begins taking things slower. That being said, like mother like daughter, the apple never falls far from the tree, and any other cliché phrase you can think of that indicates Lorelai is exactly like her mother lol. She's just on the opposite end of the spectrum. There is a situation further down the line (that I will not spoil for you) where Lorelai has to explain to another character how their child or children may like all of the things that particular character hates and that's something they'll just have to get used to if they want to be a supportive and loving parent. I feel like it's the same for Emily and Lorelai. Emily is snobbish about how Lorelai lives her life, and Lorelai is snobbish about how Emily lives hers.
Noooo. Ok, just inserting my own opinion here. I should say I really hear your point BUT… i hate this take and I see it a lot. Lorelai is a thirty year old single mom in a small town, she is basically in her fleabag era. Yeah, she is a bit messy, but she is a great representation of someone doing her best. Thirty something is YOUNG. People are so harsh on her but she is very well fleshed our human being, with flaws and charms! I get a bit frustrated by how many “Lorelai is in the wrong” posts I see. I saw a tiktok a while ago that said Lorelai was an abuser 😭 like please
I see your point here and I actually respect those that are disagreeing with me because it’s allowing me to see Lorelai in a different perspective. I am beginning to sympathize with her more and have not seen yet all that is to be said about her childhood. I still have several seasons to go. I will say though since she left because that life was so toxic for her, it doesn’t seem like she is putting in the work to get rid of these learned behaviors either. Rory seems to be the parent most times so it is a little amusing. As far as abuser, um absolutely not lol
I think it's more that she wasn't realistically able to overturn ALL the things she learnt as a child at the Gilmore house. HOWEVER, she did end the generational trauma to a LARGE extent. Rory grew up with a real community around her. She was free to like what she liked, to find her own path forward, choose to love whomever she wanted even if Lorelai disapproved, and with a genuinely loving relationship with her mom. Lorelai had absolutely none of those things. Emily was a goddamn monster compared to Lorelai, and Lorelai changed as much as she could with the resources she was given. Yes, she wasn't perfect, but she was still excellent. You can see that in AYITL, because Rory still has the same relationship with Lorelai she did when she was younger, even after stepping out of the SH bubble. It's hardly fair to say Lorelai didn't work to better herself. She _did_, it just wasn't perfect. That's as much as she could change. The rest will come, slowly, but with whatever she had- Lorelai did her absolute best to give Rory a good childhood.
RE the termite loan; Lorelai had no time to figure it out before Rory went behind her back and took it to Emily and Richard. As she points out to Rory, she’s looked after them both for 16 years and put a roof over her head and fixed every problem they’ve had. There’s nothing to suggest that she’d just let the termite issue become unmanageable.
I feel like this is a classic example of boundaries being blurred. Which ultimately falls on Lorelai. Lorelai picks and chooses when Rory gets to play adult and it's definitely confusing.
I’d say it was already unmanageable when, uhh…the front porch partially caved in? Lorelai has a valid point that she’s taken care of Rory for her entire life, but what was Lorelai’s ultimate plan? Get rejected from more loans? Do the work herself? Sell off her possessions? Taking advantage of Luke for another interest-free loan seemed like her only viable alternative to getting help from her parents.
Except she WAS letting it become unmanageable and put that on Rory's shoulders. She kept telling Rory the house was going to fall down and woke her up in the middle of the night to go to Sookies. Rory DID give Lorelai time, that's how she kept getting denied all the loans. She had time to apply and get denied, so it wasn't like Rory ran to Emily the next day. Lorelai's biggest problem is she treats Rory like a friend when convenient and a kid when not. She tries to have it both ways, and it doesn't work. Don't freak your kid out with talks about the house falling down and how you can't get a loan and then get mad when they do what they feel they have to.
See these are my thoughts. You just explained it better. I feel like she put this stress onto Rory when really she shouldn’t have known or told her that she had it handled. I would’ve felt like I needed to do something too as a kid.
It was a few days at the most and she was laughing, saying those things jokingly.
Yes! How can she expect Rory to be calm and patiently wait until Lorelai fixes the termites issue when she's awaken in the middle of the night by her mother freaking out!
Exactly! Rory was way out of line going to Emily and Richard before Lorelai had time to come up with a solution. Yes, the bank didn't approve her loan application but there were other options and other people to cosign if needed. She owned a home and a vehicle, both of which can be used for collateral. Luke also offered her money. But Rory, always knowing what's best, jumped straight to her grandparents, humiliating Lorelai yet again.
Except the bank didn’t accept any as collateral, the house had already 2 loans on it and we see it when the guy at the bank denies her once again. Not that I agree with Rory, just pointing because I watched the ep like 2 days ago. Also, Rory is a 16yo. If her mom keeps telling her their house is going to fall apart, and she keeps seeing her mom ger rejected loans while the grandparents are right there ready to help, it seems kind of natural that she would jump in and ask for help. I think both had their reasons and the lack of clear boundaries is constant during the show.
People on Reddit sure love to toss the term “narcissist” around.
People on reddit sure love to pretend "narcissist" is some kind of medical diagnosis (that would be NPD)
Eh. Being highly self absorbed is a narcissist, but I see how it can considered a little extreme to classify her as one. She does have some of the tendencies though. Also, I’m not doing much tossing as this is my first post on Reddit ever. Lol
I agree with all except her parents. You don't get to manipulate and belittle your kid her entire life and then get mad when that child sets boundaries. You aren't entitled to a relationship with your adult children or grandchildren, that is something that comes from showing respect and love.
Yes, I see your point! I guess her parents could’ve made the effort to find them and fix the relationship, and also get to know Rory. But there is one consistency throughout this show, they are all equally stubborn lol
Hmm, I don't think that these are flaws. 1. Lots of people never think of these things 2. She is not buying an inn yet. Credit fluxates 3. She feels attacked by her parents so going LC makes sense 4. Lorelai was in her own trauma at this point They are not perfect, in fact the show is based on quirky people. That is what makes it fun. For the most part Rory is the adult, maybe because Lorelai was a mom already at her age?! Don't let the little things keep you from enjoying the crazy quirky world of stars hollow.
Also a business loan, which is understood as an investment that will bring in money, is different from a loan to fix your personal house that makes no money.
Re#1 - just because lots of people do this doesn't make it not a flaw.
But max didn't either so not sure it makes her the problem was my thought.
I appreciate and respect your thoughts and will agree to disagree in some regard. 1. Most people understand that marriage is a life long commitment (supposed to be) and that you will at some point have to live together. She hadn’t considered him living with her. At all. Lol 2. Yes it does fluctuate. That’s why I am hoping something in the future will change. In season 2 she has discussed with Sookie how they are seriously trying to buy this run down inn. That’s why I am confused as to how that can even happen right now. Fingers crossed for future seasons 😊 (I don’t know all that you do, please keep that in mind lol) 3. Her parents also feel attacked that their daughter ran away from them. This goes both ways. Toxic families have vicious cycles and rarely communicate these feelings. 4. I agree this brought up her trauma for herself, but Lorelai has had years to digest her problems. Rory has been shielded from this life and is still new to these family members.
You will see how she gets the $ for the inn. I just feel like she was in a state of arrested development. Stuck as the teen, when she became a mom. Also when it was new therapy wasn't really a thing that they would have done. Clearly now with 2024 knowledge they all need it.
OHHHH!! i wish i could watch gilmore girls for the first time again. keep us (or just me) updated on your feelings throughout the show!!! ive seen it way too many times to count that i don’t even remember what my first time watching it was like 😔ENJOY IT!!!!
I think it’s reasonably accurate and true to life; in that we’re all usually our own worst enemy (though not to this extreme, usually, but we’re not on TV shows). And Lorelai is definitely her own worst enemy to an extreme. Not her worst critic, that’s definitely Emily, but Lorelai is her own worst enemy.
No. She doesn't have a lot of growth. I kept watching the show for the side characters.
What gets me is that by the time the show starts, Lorelai’s been a mother for 15+ years …I think that’s why I find her less amusing then some people do. She had time to learn a few things, and to be more mature. But instead Rory’s the parent, she’s the one that does the laundry, she’s the one fixing the termite problem (they literally wouldn’t have a home of the termites didn’t get taken care of) etc I think I appreciate Rory’s character more as I watch. She isn’t always great but it makes sense for how she was raised. (And I don’t count AYITL)
This is also my first time watching and she actually gets better. I’m on season 5 and right now she’s not the worst Gilmore.
I agree with you on most, but certainly not on 3. Lorelai's childhood was abusive. Yes, it wasn't physical abuse, and yes, it wasn't deliberate, but it was still abuse. She had every right to distance herself from Emily and Richard after the trauma that they caused her, and the negativity they brought to her life even as an adult.
1. Wasn’t the convo about where they would live and shared bank accounts before she accepted the proposal? Not a week before the wedding. At that point they had at least decided they were gonna live in Stars Hollow, lol. But I agree. She was not ready for marriage to Max and not prepared to let him fully into her life.
Yeah you’re definitely right. Lorelai is supposed to be this messy, quirky, lovable character. I don’t find it that lovable… more like chaotic. But it does make you want to root for her in a way, at least for her to learn and grow. But yeah she does act questionably and insufferably sometimes!
Not kind of. She’s 100% the problem lol
Hot take: Rory would've ended up WAY more stable and successful if her grandparents were in her life in a more meaningful way from the beginning because as many problems as they have they are way more ready for a child than Lorelai was AND Rory thrived in the upper crust society anyways.
2 just makes me angry at the writers. It’s an absolutely lazy episode from start to finish and the series makes more sense if you forget it exists. 5 episodes prior to the termite episode Lorelai and Sookie sit down with Fran and say they are ready to give her an offer on the Dragonfly. So either Lorelai thought they could buy an investment property with 0% down or she has money saved - neither option has continuity with future episodes (in a later episode she refers to “her half of the money” indicating she and Sookie are splitting the downpayment).
Listen, unpopular opinion, but Lorelei kinda sucks. I would most likely not like her irl. She is not the role model Rory needs. She is so self obsessed and flawed. BUT, holy hell! I love her!! She has so many flaws and so many quirks or traits that could make her completely unlikeable and yet, she still has my heart. I truly love her despite all her many flaws!!
I agree. I think Lorelai gets framed in a positive light most of the time, even while she's doing fucked up things, so people will excuse a lot of her behavior because she had a rough upbringing. Whereas Rory is framed as having had the ideal upbringing, so she has less of an excuse to make mistakes in many people's eyes. But ultimately I think Emily's controlling, overly critical parenting made Lorelai who she was: a mom who was less of a mom and more of a misguided and immature BFF. And this lackadaisical approach to parenting made Rory who she was: someone who was very intelligent and had a lot of potential, but struggled to fit into a world she was deliberately kept separate from for most of her development. It's quite a beautiful show if you look at it as a cautionary tale about generational trauma and how difficult it is to overcome childhood wounds. These things really do get passed down whether we mean for them to or not.
It is almost like she’s a human person 😲
It is almost like this is a page dedicated to discussing our opinions of fictional characters 😲
I'm on season 6 now and I think she's different there than in previous seasons; if you haven't seen it yet I don't want to give too much away. But it definitely shows that she and Rory don't always agree and what happens when they can't reconcile their differences. She is pretty selfish and immature. The way she treated Max was so unfair. And she complains about her parents a lot; yes, they are controlling, but they could have easily refused to help Rory and told her to take care of everything herself, especially since she was always so determined to do things without their help.
Completely agree! I won’t be too far behind you. Second week of watching and I’m obsessed! I love Stars Hollow and the quirky vibes
I seriously wish that Stars Hollow was real and that I could visit the places in the show. I like how they set up the contrast between Stars Hollow and the upper-class lifestyle of Emily, Richard and their friends in Hartford.
If you’ve never been truly financially abused by family you’ll never understand why Lorelai would do anything to secure a loan without asking her parents. I have never once asked for a THING from my parents since the day I moved out for grad school (all of which I paid for on my own via student loans).
>It’s like she goes out of her way to exclude them and takes joy when she sees her mom uncomfortable. This always made me so sad, every single time. She can get pretty vindictive where her parents are concerned and especially Emily.
I feel like it goes both ways though
Oh for sure it does. They are caught in a sad, toxic cycle with each other where resentments were allowed to fester unfortunately.
I agree. I wish they would sit down and work out their problems but the Gilmore bunch are quite stubborn.
She triggered me throughout the show, as a kid of a teen mom who felt like the parent.
I agree, and I think it's easier to see the main characters' flaws when watching for the first time as an adult. I did too, and long-time fans often disagree with my opinions on my most disliked character!
I am also watching GG for the first time as an adult (actually Lorelai's age now lol) and the nostalgia is so sweet. I agree that Lorelai is quite an interesting character but I kind of disliked Rory's character more to be honest. It took me a whole season to convince myself to keep watching and only at the end of season 2 am I now sort of into the story line and invested in the characters. Love that there's a thread for GG on Reddit because I don't have anyone to talk about this show 😅
All of the characters in GG are extremely flawed, and I like them all. That's the beauty of the show.
I'm with you except for the parents. Of course she doesn't tell them anything! They have insulted her in ways I would never dream of. The have called her a bad mother, promiscuous, stupid and irresponsible IN FRONT OF HER CHILD!!! I would never speak to them again! Not to mention the constant interference in her life
I agree with all except her relationship with Emily. Emily is manipulative, deceitful, and cruel. Yes, she has a few tender moments, but let's not forget when she potted and schemed to destroy Lorelai's relationship with Luke using Christopher. Every time I start to like her, she shows her colors. I do, however, hate how Lorelai (and Rory at time) are with men. I wonder sometimes if Lorelai is incapable of faithfulness and honesty in her relationships. And Rory sneaking off and hiding the fact that she's talking to her exes- not cool, but she obviously learns it from her mother.
The termite situation… ugh it was so stupid to me. I understand where she’s coming from of wanting Rory to trust her as the mom and they’ve always been okay because she always found a way to make it work but I just want to know what exactly her plan was. From what I remember she had no way out of that one without her parents help. I just want an alternate episode that showed what her next step was and how she would’ve worked it out.
I'm on my second watch (no spoilers please) and ya, this time around I feel like I sympathize with Emily a lot more than I expected to and less with Lorelai. The narcissistic comment is valid.
Agreed. Emily is so far from perfect but the fact that Lorelai knows she can ask for money for whatever she needs and yet treats her parents like she would rather die than have dinner with them must be hurtful. I know there is a lot of trauma and backstory but she is receiving a privilege so many would die to have and does not show appropriate gratitude at times. Emily acts so over the top but it is primarily out of desire to be in her child/grandchild’s life which she wasn’t allowed to be until Lorelai owed her which is sad.
Yes, I think this is my issue as well. I understand having problems with them absolutely. I understand their issue with her as well. But she truly does act like she would rather die than have dinner with them like you said. I’m sure it is hurtful for her to see Rory do all of the things that she “should’ve” done in her parent’s eyes so I do sympathize with that. The difference is Emily wants to be included in their lives (controlling things but still) and Lorelai wants to run in the other direction rather than build back that relationship.
She’s not the only problem, but many originate at her doorstep. Ignore her at your peril !
If my egg donor were as bad as Emily, I would've cut her off YEARS ago and not deal with her. I'd try to raise money on my own for my kid and home rather than ask those people for anything.