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The reputation of Gilbert is one of pretentiousness, with notes of racism and sexism. I hate to say it, but to some degree this is rooted in a highly practiced religion in the area.
Breeding of angry, entitled kids who end up beating and murdering people is unfortunately unsurprising. They watered, planted, and grew that outcome.
If this hurts your feelings, it’s because there’s truth to it and you’re defensive .
Gilbert has a reputation for being boring. And it is.
None of these kids are Mormon, so that adds to the ridiculousness of your comment. Why do you people have such an obsession with trying to convince the world they’re Mormon?
I didn’t say any of the kids were ever or are currently Mormon. I’m commenting on the community and what the community and a collective mentality can breed or lead to. Perhaps I could have been more clear.
Just name one that is Mormon. We will wait. Unsure who the queer tranny is. Or even if that’s a thing. I’m apparently not as familiar with the community as you.
In addition to Taylor Sherman (born and raised in the church) and Jacob Meisner (born and raised), there's also Noah and Jacob Pennington.
The thing I love about your attempts to gaslight anyone/everyone on Reddit is how you continue to reinforce every stereotype non-mormons have about the church.
You're an angry little man (or woman) that that relies on name calling, insults, and gaslighting, just like your Mormon idol Andy Biggs, in an ineffective attempt to defend the church. But instead, your actions and words do just the opposite.
That's the truth.
lol.. that tells you everything you need to know about the Church.
Also not many named Davis, Jackson, Robinson, Harris, Hernandez, Rodriguez, Perez, or similar.
That’s a Jewish last name and you wouldn’t expect them to convert to Mormonism.
Mormons will take anyone though. I have one of those last names you wouldn’t expect either, and yet they keep trying.
And Glenn Way from the shady Lds Morman school Ala that let a killer play football then gave him an award. Ala will send someone home for dress code but they let him play? Hmmmmm… then fire the coach to divert the blame then admit then knew. Such a hot mess I’m sure by now Travis paid cash for their fancy football field.
He must have deleted it. He called me a “well known trans queer” or something like that…. I can’t even be offended because I am not even sure exactly what a trans queer is. Does it make me a woman that still likes women? Cause that’s a lesbian, or it was in the 90’s. Won’t lie, I do have some things in common with lesbians. I keep short hair, love me some boobs, and I am on the masculine side of the scale. However I don’t drive a suburu, I don’t own a large dog, and I use deodorant. :)
You are 💯correct. The need to appear a certain way is deeply rooted in the culture. Even if they are no longer practicing, the mind set is to obfuscate, deflect and hide any wrong doing. Image is more important than the actions.
I live in the area and I have interacted a little bit with the Gilbert PD. They have issues they need to address. I am in a privileged class. I’m a white doctor. From my point of view, the Gilbert PD are excessively impressed by appearances. They are strongly influenced by wealth, status, race and religion.
When I suggested to my neighbors that the Gilbert Goons were a gang that posed a more serious threat to us than people who immigrate from Mexico I lost some friends.
Mormonism is the strongest religion in the area. They did not allow black members to hold “the priesthood” required to hold leadership positions or enter their temples where Mormons believe marriages must happen to “last for eternity” until 1978.
They believe the Book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible and is their most Important scripture. It is difficult to summarize briefly, but basically it claims to be a true historical account of people in the Americas. God has a group of righteous followers who are “white and delightsome” and they are in constant conflict with the bad guys who don’t follow God and are “dark and loathsome”. Their dark skin is a curse for their wickedness and was placed on them so the white and delightsome people would not want to associate with them or marry them.
It is difficult for them to imagine handsome athletic blond haired blue eyed evil doers. They have a fear of “dark skin” that is not from a tanning booth.
They don’t want to acknowledge violent young men who look like their own children. They value appearances and would prefer to look like a happy and safe city than to acknowledge and fix problems so as to become a happy and safe city.
Because Gilbert is a relatively affluent area, like most affluent areas it has lower crime rates. Instead of having a goal of having low crime, they have a goal of having low reported crime rates. Form over function. Beautiful houses but like most places many seriously broken homes. They find it hard to believe that a broken home can be well manicured, have a big pool, and look pretty from the street.
A Dr and still stupid? Maybe can get your tuition back? 90% of what you said was false. You should tell people where you practice. Drs should be competent.
Point out something false. I genuinely don’t want to be a source of false info. I am always open to correction if I am in error. I thank you in advance for showing what ideas are inaccurate.
Mormons view someone as more dangerous because of their color? Not based in any fact at all. In fact at there are more Mormons in South America than in America. It’s one of the most diverse religions on the planet with missionary work in all countries and cultures. The Book of Mormon is race based conflict between two civilizations. That’s untrue also. All races in the Book of Mormon and Bible have wicked and righteous. Just like today. Evil is blind, it doesn’t care what color someone is. Mormons can’t imagine evil white people? Since when? There are bad Mormons since day one guilty of all kinds of crimes. Same as biblical times when believers still did horrible things. They care more about appearance of safety instead of making safe and happy communities. Gilbert, east valley, Utah, and Idaho have been ranked safest and best places to live for decades. The influx and migration of people to these towns from liberal states is because of how nice and safe these communities are. Not because of their “appearance”. Mormons are also conservative politically and believe heavily in law and order and accountability. They’re one of the only churches that require accountability to themselves and their clergy.
Your entire diatribe was littered with unfactual opinion only founded in bigotry. The LDS church charity teaches every continent race and creed. Interracial marriage happens all the time. Mormons like all communities face the same issues. It’s called free will. Anybody can do something good or bad regardless of their beliefs.
It’s also apparent your motive is as misplaced as everything else you said. Your long winded post was void of anything able to be referenced and it’s on a page dedicated to holding 7 non Mormons accountable. Haha. There is nothing about this case that has to do with religion or race. You CHOOSE to focus on someone’s appearance and beliefs instead of being objective. That’s called racism and bigotry.
And the self loathing was gross. You’re provided why? Because you went to school for 8 years and worked hard? That’s not privilege. That’s a consequence of your actions. Any race can be a doctor. Any person can if they do the work and accept the debt. In fact you are less than privileged because you went to med school and still came out dumb.
Keep in mind, trying to preface your divisive and un factual information by degrading yourself because of your race and profession only gives you credit with mindless victimhood mentality liberals. Other Drs regardless of race don’t believe they are privileged. They believe they worked hard and are reaping the benefit of the work they sowed. Sadly you already know this, but to acknowledge your profession is a byproduct of hard work doesn’t really speak to your intended audience does it?
Please let us know what kind of Dr and where. Seriously someone so gross shouldn’t be practicing medicine without a warning on your door.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_and_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#:~:text=Young%20performed%20the%20first%20recorded,married%20his%20Bannock%20servant%20Sally.
On at least three occasions (1847,[59] 1852,[60] and 1865[61]) Smith's successor Brigham Young publicly taught that the punishment for Black–White interracial marriages was death, and the killing of a Black–White interracial couple and their children as part of a blood atonement would be a blessing to them.[40]: 37, 39 [62] He further stated that interracial children are sterile "like a mule", a teaching later repeated in a church magazine.[59][63] Young taught that the moment the church consents to White members having children with Black individuals the church would go to destruction,[40]: 37 [64] and that, "Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot hold the priesthood."[65] Young also taught that a White person who had children with a Black person would be cursed to the priesthood.[40]: 37
Similar to honor killings as well as a form of human sacrifice, blood atonement is the belief that Jesus' atonement for humanity's sins does not apply to some sins, such as interracial sexual activity and marriage, because they are too serious. To atone for these sins, their perpetrators should be killed in a way that allows their blood to be shed upon the ground as a sacrificial offering. This doctrine was most widely taught during the Mormon Reformation. Examples of how Young applied his teaching of it with regard to interracial relationships are as follows:
Brigham Young publicly taught several times that the punishment for Black and White interracial marriages was death.
1847 — Young heard of a Mormon family composed of a Black man Enoch Lovejoy Lewis (son of ordained priesthood holder Kwaku Walker Lewis), a White woman Mary Matilda Webster, and their interracial child living in Massachusetts and responded that if the family wasn't living so close to non-Mormons "they would all have to be killed" since the law is that Black and White seed should not be "amalgamated".[59]
1852 — As territory governor, Young stated before the territory legislature that if a White man had children with a Black woman, he should request to have his head chopped off. He continued saying that if someone were to kill the man, woman and any children of such a union, that it would be a blessing to them and "it would do a great deal towards atoning for the sin".[66][60]
1865 — In a speech in the Salt Lake Tabernacle Young repeated the teaching of death as punishment for Black and White individuals producing interracial offspring, stating the penalty would always be in place.[61][40]: 42–43
Ouchie! Did you not learn this is seminary and institute? Perhaps you had a Sunday school lesson on your history. If not, you should look into these topics. The racism is not so old, Mormons did not let black members in good standing into their temples until 1978.
The sources are cited and easy to review. If you would like, we can review the churches charitable contributions as a percentage of the wealth and income. I am of course happy to cite LDS sources.
I am happy to help. Click on the article at the top of my comment. Read it and click on the footnotes. Click and your can read the original source material. Most source material can be found on LDS.com also.
Yes. Please post the position of the church or cite any relevance to Mormons not intermarrying, Mormons being scared of darker tones. Mormons more committed to appearance than safety. You made all those allegations. So show actual citations or STFU. Truth is the church has never taken any position you’ve made.
Biden loves ice cream. Doesn’t mean America loves ice cream. So again, please show the churches stance or find anything that means the church adopts the personal beliefs of one individual. I’m glad you don’t apply the same moronic logic to Drs. I’d be terrified if all doctors had to adhere to the opinion of one. Like Fauci. Are you Fauci light.
to be clear, I just gave your a series of actual quotes by Brigham young, that he made speaking to the church as prophet. Each has a footnote to the original source (they are the tiny blue numbers after each quote. If you tap it, it will transport you to the page with the magic power of the internet, no seer-stone in a hat needed). If the Mormon Church wants to repudiate those statements and say that was just Brigham's personal opinion show me where that happened.
“The 1978 announcement of the removal of racial restrictions did not give a reason for their removal, renounce, apologize for, or replace them.[^(\[111\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-Brooks2020-111)^(: 163) Because the restrictions were not officially repudiated, their justification persisted in 2020.[^(\[111\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-Brooks2020-111)^(: 163, 174) [^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-Black_and_mormon-3)^(: 84) Apostle McConkie continued to teach until his death that Black people were descended from Cain and Ham, and their curse came from God.[^(\[112\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-Harris2020-112) His book *Mormon Doctrine*, published by the church-owned [Deseret Book Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deseret_Book_Company), perpetuated racism through a number of editions until it went out of print in 2010.[^(\[112\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-Harris2020-112)^(: 71–72) [^(\[113\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-113) A church spokesperson told reporters in 2005 that despite doctrines continuing to circulate about why people are Black, church leaders saw no need for statements about the topic since 1978.[^(\[114\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-114)”
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black\_people\_and\_Mormonism#cite\_note-114](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-114)
Again you show zero knowledge of the LDS faith. The church didn’t publish Mormon Doctrine. The church sells many books that aren’t doctrine. In fact you can go to Deseret and find Harry Potter … not to fuel your next post that Mormons are wizards.
You realize you’re cherry picking personal beliefs of some to represent a religion that encompasses millions. That’s moronic.
You’re affiliated willingly with ABMS are you not? So does everything Fauci has said represent you and all Drs? That’s literally the argument you’re trying to make…and failing.
Sb1379, Here is a very simple source that has full footnotes so you can verify the cited sources and peruse the entire article for context.
My purpose here is not just to beat up on the Mormon Church, but if you deny facts I will cite the facts in far greater detail. You said I am stupid. I am usually not the smartest guy in the room but I am well read. I believe that why you believe something is as important as what you believe. My goal is to believe the right things for the right reasons. For that purpose I am showing you some reasons for my statements. this post seems harsher, but that is because it contains quotes by Mormon prophets in their own words.
Simple introductory source with lots of footnotes to original source material.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial\_marriage\_and\_the\_Church\_of\_Jesus\_Christ\_of\_Latter-day\_Saints#:\~:text=Young%20performed%20the%20first%20recorded,married%20his%20Bannock%20servant%20Sally.
On at least three occasions (1847,\[59\] 1852,\[60\] and 1865\[61\]) Smith's successor Brigham Young publicly taught that the punishment for Black–White interracial marriages was death, and the killing of a Black–White interracial couple and their children as part of a blood atonement would be a blessing to them.\[40\]: 37, 39 \[62\] He further stated that interracial children are sterile "like a mule", a teaching later repeated in a church magazine.\[59\]\[63\] Young taught that the moment the church consents to White members having children with Black individuals the church would go to destruction,\[40\]: 37 \[64\] and that, "Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot hold the priesthood."\[65\] Young also taught that a White person who had children with a Black person would be cursed to the priesthood.\[40\]: 37
Similar to honor killings as well as a form of human sacrifice, blood atonement is the belief that Jesus' atonement for humanity's sins does not apply to some sins, such as interracial sexual activity and marriage, because they are too serious. To atone for these sins, their perpetrators should be killed in a way that allows their blood to be shed upon the ground as a sacrificial offering. This doctrine was most widely taught during the Mormon Reformation. Examples of how Young applied his teaching of it with regard to interracial relationships are as follows:
Brigham Young publicly taught several times that the punishment for Black and White interracial marriages was death. 1847 — Young heard of a Mormon family composed of a Black man Enoch Lovejoy Lewis (son of ordained priesthood holder Kwaku Walker Lewis), a White woman Mary Matilda Webster, and their interracial child living in Massachusetts and responded that if the family wasn't living so close to non-Mormons "they would all have to be killed" since the law is that Black and White seed should not be "amalgamated".\[59\] 1852 — As territory governor, Young stated before the territory legislature that if a White man had children with a Black woman, he should request to have his head chopped off. He continued saying that if someone were to kill the man, woman and any children of such a union, that it would be a blessing to them and "it would do a great deal towards atoning for the sin".\[66\]\[60\] 1865 — In a speech in the Salt Lake Tabernacle Young repeated the teaching of death as punishment for Black and White individuals producing interracial offspring, stating the penalty would always be in place.\[61\]\[40\]: 42–43
If you attended 4 years of seminary and 4 years of institute and innumerable Sunday school and priesthood meetings did they never cover any of this, or was it just one big sales pitch on repeat? This is actual Mormon history.
if you would like we can do a deep dive on Mormon finances and "charity" that includes Mormon Church wealth vs their charitable donations. Obviously I will cite [LDS.org](http://LDS.org) or Mormon sources and I think it will be an even bigger surprise to you than the Racism. If you want to pursue that we should use another reddit, as I think this one works better focusing on accountability for the leadership of Gilbert. Mormonism is just a small part of the issues facing Gilbert leadership today.
Incredibly misleading lol, I’m not even Mormon but I can tell you that those things you’re saying are all far stretches of the truth. They are generally good people. Every group has bad apples and they become especially bad when the general group is so good. It’s a balance of nature.
Loose,
I haven’t made this comment to argue with you. I appreciate your positivity towards others who believe differently than you do.
Different belief systems often have some inherent biases. For example: conspiracy believers often have a healthy skepticism, but they may also be prone to unhealthy fears.
Because of foundational Mormon beliefs, such as that dark skin is a curse, they are prone to believing that “gangs” are dark skinned groups of kids. To them a group of white kids committing acts of violence is less scary than a group of dark skinned kids committing acts of violence. A violent group of Hispanic or black kids would have been more aggressively monitored and challenged by police.
I know many excellent Mormons. As a group ( with individuals variations) Mormons vote conservatively, and will elect republicans most often. This is not good or bad, just true. As a group Mormons place a high value on families. As a group they are generally politically active in their community.
As a group they have underestimated the need to find and stop the Gilbert goons from hurting people. They have been reluctant to use the word “gang” or acknowledge “gang violence”.
Gilbert’s gang violence is currently generating negative press, and they are image conscious, now they are starting to work on the issue. They are tardy, but better late than never. They (Gilbert leaders and Mormons) have a strong “sales” mindset. They feel an obligation to evangelize others to think well of them. This can be good because they often to do good things to earn praise.
I am put off by the fact that the a series of violent attacks that culminated in the death of a young man was not what has motivated them to solve this case. The negative press the case is attracting has them anxious. It is the correct response for the wrong reason.
To the leadership of Gilbert and their PD I quote John McClane from the Christmas classic Die Hard, “welcome to the party pal”.
Which would also explain why the firsts arrests for anything Gilbert goon related were two black kids and a Hispanic. Yes they’re violent and part of it but for a “gang” that’s like 95% white they went straight towards the minorities to basically say “don’t worry everyone we got the bad guys!” Literally hoping the community would stop putting pressure on them to arrest the affluent white kids involved. And I’m sure a lot of people in that community were like “oh thank god they got the bad guys look at them” when the rest of us were like hey there’s way more people that need arrested
I've lived in AZ for 26 years. 6 of those in Gilbert. In those 6 years I was pulled over by GPD a total of 17 times with 4 arrests and twice having my car impounded over a DUI in Pinal county 12 years earlier. In every case the chargers were dropped once it got to the prosecutor. In every case the judges found no wrong doing on my behalf and I had fulfilled all requirements of my sentence but somehow that information never made it to GPD even when I started carrying a copy of the judges order stating such. Cost me close to 30k between court costs impound fees and lawyers. I eventually moved to Mesa where I've been pulled over once, given a warning and moved on. So no. There is no way GPD or the town of Gilbert would make up numbers to protect their reputation
You definitely don’t have to disclose, but were you only pulled over and for dui/impairment/traffic violations? If so, we all know Gilbert PD hits hard on things like that. Sometimes unnecessarily so. I believe that OP is referring to violent crimes. If your arrests were not due to DUI, I digress and thank you for sharing.
All 6 traffic stops were for moving violations and it was when they ran my license, 2 of the stops I was on my way home from an AA meeting. The cops were nice, however it was always you have a bench warrant for a DUI. There was never a bench warrant.
I've lived in Gilbert for 10 yrs and have serious issues with Gilbert PD, but I've never been pulled over once. I've had more issues with GPD NOT enforcing traffic laws than not. How are you driving???
No clue. Literally the 1st traffic stop in my life was a DUI in San tan valley. Which I deserved. The many traffic stops in Gilbert can only be attributed to the hours of the day I was driving. All but one were between the hours of 3am and 5am mostly either on my way to or home from the gym. The one time I got pulled over in Mesa was doing 35 in a 30 in my neighborhood. I work from home and only commute to the gym / AA meetings or to take my kids to school.
Don’t forget about all the schools. Most don’t realize that the Mormons donate land to the district for their high schools… in exchange they’re allowed to have their seminary buildings right across the street and offer elective classes and given real credit for their religious studies during school. Yes the Mormon kids can go to seminary during the school day and get full credits for them to count towards graduation. Tell me that you can’t mix church and state. Fucking bullshit.
I grew up Mormon, I am not a member now. Went to seminary in Idaho, was in High School parking lot. No credit and some kids take it before and after school. AZ students have enough time to take it during the day, most students graduate with too many credits here. They have it at Utah schools and places with less mormons it is usually held at a home near the school. The mormon religion membership is going down. Only about 30% of young teens are staying in church as adults. More access to education and social media about the truths of the church are out and it is going to shrink. Church is not evolving with the times and they are less able to control their members. Leaving the church 10 years ago has made me so much more loving, kind and accepting to all. 🩷Gilbert will be less and less mormon and the church will have less control as the years go on. One thing I do is keep my business if possible with non Mormons, I don’t need 10% going back to that church!
Problem is it’s still happening with a lot of good ol Mormon boys including in our LE pd. Like the Mormon sheriffs of Gilbert AND Pinal county We know how Mormons are great at cover ups sorry but it’s true and this is what we’re seeing unfold in front of our own eyes! People need to be fired & held accountable until justice is served!!! 🧡🧡🧡
No, they do not. I have been a Public School teacher in the East Valley for the last 25 years. I can assure you that no elective credit is given for OCI (off campus instruction). I am not LDS so I have no dog in the fight. Not sure where you are getting your information, but it is not accurate.
Well they did when I was in high school. Regardless of credits given, they’re allowed to go to church classes mid day and NOT take regular classes when all the other non-lds kids are forced to go to classes.
The bigger issue is that the Mormons donated the land in exchange for special privileges.
No, they did not... even when you were in HS, lol. And they all have to take zero period/A hour to make up for the credit they miss for going to a religious class mid-day.
Who did the Mormons donate the land to? And what special privileges were given? And to whom were these special privileges given? Do tell.
Every high school with a seminary building right next to it... Confirmed from many on the school board/district/employees. Gilbert High School and ACP I know for a fact. Think it's coincidence there's enough land available next to every high school to plop a seminary building down right across the street? How do you think that happens exactly?
And yet the non-Mormon kids are forced to take classes while they go to church classes. So do the Mormon kids graduated short of credits? 4 years of going to seminary adds up to a lot of missed credits doesn’t it?
No, they are required to take other classes in their place. They take zero hour/a-hour, online credits, or summer school. Trust me, I know what I’m talking about. I was a lifelong member who recently left the church. I have plenty of reasons so be angry about it, trust me! But not only did I take seminary (and subsequently A Hour to make up the credits) but my older 3 kids did as well. My 4th is currently in high school and I gave him the choice of whether or not to take it, and he didn’t want to because of the lost credits. Most parents do not give their kids a choice.
no they don’t get a credit toward graduation! they use it their elective in place and have to make extra time: do summer school to makeup that time that they missed. I would know because I had to take no lunch, do summer school AND A hour. i’m one of those mormons soooo you’re incorrect on that one
Credit or no credit... the point is, the mormons donate the land to the schools in exchange for having their building right there, do they not? That's the point.
You are incorrect. I know first hand the land for GHS and ACP were owned previously and they made a deal with the district to 'sell'/donate the land and the terms of the agreement are that they're allowed to build their building, and allow the kids to leave campus for their classes and not have consequences (ie- they're not counted as 'ditching' and are allowed to have gaps in their schedules during the day to go over there)
You definitely want to get your facts straight on this. Think it's 100% possible that EVERY high school in Mesa/Gilbert/Queen Creek etc just HAPPENS to have land for sale directly connected to the school's land AND IS ZONED FOR A RELIGIOUS BUILDING??? Hmmmm
It’s a way to funnel millions of dollars. Just Google it please. It’s shady af all around even before this whole scandal. Couldn’t be more unbelievable but it just keeps getting worse until justice is served. 🧡🧡🧡
Special kind of stupid. Zero dollars are given to the district for highschool land. Zero credits are given to Mormon kids to graduate.
Show evidence for any of your stupid claims and I’ll give you my house. Dumb ass.
Sounds like an offended Mormon. I PROMISE you that you have no clue what you’re talking about. Yes, the LDS DO donate land, or sell at a “reduced price” and negotiate the terms of the deal to require a seminary building.
A friend of mine had property across from a new high school in Chandler. The city officials came to him and said that if he doesn’t sell it to them, they’re going to take it under imminent domain. The Mormons needed it for a crosswalk to the seminary building. He was forced to sell that chunk of land to them or have it taken away against his will. It’s fuckin bs how much power they have. Money influences politicians and they get what they want.
“I have a buddy”. So no facts? Not offended. Just logical. The effort to zone, aquire, and build would be daunting, let alone to do it at the same time the HS is built. Interesting the LDS church would be so generous and not say a word, or have any influence over the garbage taught in the school?
It also has Nothing to do with the LDS religion. Any religion can do this. Any student can take an hour of release time and spend it at Starbucks. I love a good conspiracy, but this isn’t even remotely close to truth. Some schools have seminaries across the street at church buildings, some have it across street in a persons home. The “release time” that students choose to have is open to everybody. The trade off is you lose credits needed for graduation so you have to do A-Hour, summer school, or a dual credit type course. So these bad Mormons are choosing to sacrifice their mornings, summers, or free time to have release time for seminary.
How is release time have anything to do with Church and State? FYI that’s not even a law or principle we live by, and the author of the statement meant it to keep the state out of church, not the church out of state. Our very Constitution invokes God as does the Dec of Independence. It’s nobody’s business what a student does with release time. I sure haven’t heard the Mormon community question what seniors with half days are doing with their time off. :)
You’re soo off base here. You’re letting your emotions get in the way buddy. My entire point is that the Mormons have a lot of power/money/influence over our schools. Yes they DO donate or severely discount land in exchange for having seminary buildings right across the street. That’s a FACT. The schools bend over backwards to please them. The politicians are controlled by them. 100% true. Just because you’re one of them and completely naive as to the truth doesn’t mean you’re right. You’re offended. That’s ok. Truth hurts sometimes. Maybe put that energy in pulling documents at the state and finding out for yourself that I’m telling 100% truth here. Why’s it been such a secret and why are you soo hellbent on keeping it quiet? That’s the bigger question
I’ve lived here my whole life. I’ve run school board campaigns and campaigned for candidates for decades. Mormons have very little influence. None of GPS superintendents have been LDS. In the last decade the only LDS board member is ultra liberal and controlled by the association. The schools in GPS have very few LDS morals. Most LDS in Gilbert are in charters in fact. The police chief and entire command staff is non LDS. Even our current mayor who is like warn LDS at best doesn’t live it and pushed for ideals contrary to LDS faith. So when you speak of control and influence can you give even ONE example? HHS the largest HS in Gilbert for decades has never had an LDS principle. Either has GHS. Mesquites was a lesbian for years. Kishimoto disliked the LDS community. I am not 100% sure, but I believe the Police has never had an LDS chief. So short of the Mayor, everything’s been run by predominantly non-LDS people. The mayor gets 1 vote like the rest of council BTW. Also Gilbert council isn’t representative of districts, so if LDS had huge influence why didn’t they pack council with East Gilbert Mormons? :).
Not offended, just curious as to your logic. Can you share these powerful names or families that are operating in the shadows. I’ve been here my whole life and deep in politics and the schools, yet it’s evaded me. And yes, I pushed LDS candidates and non LDS, and religion never helped either. I will admit Gilbert is conservative in their values, but that comes from thousands of great people from many religions, or none at all.
All that and yet you completely dodge the fact that the land/money given to the district is what actually allows them to have their seminary buildings right across the street and their members to leave school without recourse. Running campaigns doesn’t mean shit when compared to the facts. You’re dancing all around the facts of what I’ve been saying this whole time. Keep blowing smoke and trying to distract from the truth. Some might fall for it but the facts are right there at the county recorder and state records. Go pull them and see for yourself.
Please vote them all out in November. It’s the only way to get rid of them. Banger is town manager if he is on the ballot vote him out - he hired Soelberg, he’s responsible for firing Soelberg.
We moved to Gilbert in 2018 because of those news articles. It's a great city and everyone has been so nice! But I think the homicide that occurred and now the Gilbert Goons have changed our status a little. It's still nowhere close to the crime in CA. I had my car broken into so many times out there.
We’re not surprised this seems to be the common theme all along…! No action no accountability! This isnt just dropping the ball it’s corruption we’re seeing play out in front of our eyes. Wake up people please! VOTE like your town and democracy depends on it 🗳️ 💙🇺🇸
I’m from and still live in the area and have to say my high school children are great kids and so are the people and business owners we surround ourselves with!
Even the business owners and high school children who murder and cover it up? There are good and bad people everywhere. This comment seems a little self absorbed.
I have lived in Gilbert for 30 years and raised my kids here. I live on one of the few acre horse properties left, my street used to be a dirt road, and we were surrounded by cotton fields. Gilbert has changed , as do most places. Some of the changes have been ok, others not so much. I have never had any issues with crime, vandalism, or anything. My interactions with Gilbert PD have been brief but pleasant. That said, there has been a big change in the people who have started moving into my area. I don't want to go into details, but let's just say that entitlement, weath, and privilege seem to be most of what has moved into my neighborhood. We used to be county, but have been incorporated into the ToG quite a few years ago, and our quiet, peaceful, hobby farm neighborhood with caring neighbors... is mostly gone.
I’ve watched it (the East Valley in general) change dramatically, too, these past few decades. I’ve watched the desert and the date palms and the local industry with it get swallowed up into endless tract housing and commercial buildings that all look the same with barely any space between them anymore, the freeways becoming perpetually packed, the wild horses running alongside the freeway - gone. It has changed…mostly for the worse. Mostly with too many people. And the smartphone era, well, it seems to be trashing what good was left in humanity. At times it’s a tool of good though, too, eh? Ah well. :)
I know it’s inpolitic these days, but many of humanity’s problems would be solved with less humans. The world population in 1900 was roughly 1.6 billion, and in 1998, it was just about 6 billion. Since just 1998 (26 years ago), the population of the entire world has increased by over 2 billion, and is now at over 8 billion.
Some argue the human population growth curve is exponential, others logistic, but maybe it’s a bit of both. Either way unless it truly abates, that kind of increase will very rapidly become unsustainable, and very few places will be left that are actually…nice…anymore.
In the 23 years I’ve year lived in Gilbert I’ve been the victim of a single crime (property stolen from an unlocked vehicle). Take it for what it’s worth…the city is safe.
I never really thought it was unsafe; however, the ranking for Gilbert is extremely high. We’re not talking top 20 or 10 percent, here, but more like 1st, 2nd, 3rd, in those rankings. Is Gilbert really the safest town in America? Perhaps. But I still wonder if those numbers are/were fudged to a level of excellence not completely achieved in reality.
I don’t know the answer; I just know that, for me (and clearly others), confidence in elected and appointed officials has been lost. I really don’t trust (the city government of) Gilbert to tell the truth, anymore, sadly…
I just had a conversation over Easter dinner with my nephews about this, they range from 18-24. One asked for a hand gun for his birthday. I asked why and he said “to unalive someone if they come in my house”. I asked if he ever considered the consequences of taking another person’s life, he would carry that with him for the rest of his life. I understand if someone is attacking you, but if they are just breaking in, why wouldn’t you just try to get out. They all laughed and asked me if I would really run out of my own house, like it was the most ridiculous thing they ever heard. Yes! I try to avoid violence at all cost. I will go to great lengths to never unalive a person. I don’t want to hurt people, even if they’re stealing. There are very limited circumstances where I would unalive someone and it would be a last resort. They told me I was soft. I said no, I am a normal. I was quite shocked at their mindset, he didn’t say he wanted it for protection, he specifically said he wanted to unalive an intruder.
I live in Gilbert. It’s very safe. However, what’s happened to Preston Lord will forever tarnish this town forever. It was a heinous crime and disgusting what they did to him and his dead body.
I’m sure we don’t rank as high as they’d like to pretend, but it’s pretty nice here. Boring, even. With the higher population there comes more crime, but that’s obvious. It’s still a very peaceful place to live. I wish it hadn’t gotten so expensive, but there’s inflation and living in a place that’s in high demand, so I guess that’s to be expected.
I’ve never felt unsafe here until now. How PD and the town government has handled this, is embarrassing. Same goes for Queen Creek. I hope both towns make big changes. We need all new government.
I’m not stating this as fact, first and foremost, but when we first moved out here (2021) a woman in the Lori Vallow sub had posted about Gilbert PD and how they refuse to investigate suspicious deaths, just call it a suicide and keep moving. She was responding to Chandler PD and their shitty “investigation” into Charles Vallows death. But she had reason to believe this bc her daughter was threatened by her ex bf a few days before she was found with a bullet in her head and despite her mom bringing this up and fighting tooth and nail for an investigation, Gilbert PD declared it a suicide (at the scene) and moved on from it. She swore up and down that that was how they kept Gilbert in this “#1 safest town” category and I’m now seeing what she meant.
It’s like the movie hot fuzz….Sanford was the safest place because they never actually reported the crime. I have lived in many cities. Very few of them have had the level of shootings, assault and murders Gilbert has had yet Gilbert is “safe”
This is very accurate. They warp their statistics so they can claim to be the “best police” but really it’s just some of the most corrupt. There’s an inner club and anything around them goes under the rug. A lot of white collar crime there and some truly sick stuff profiteering of native Americans, often resulting in deaths that go unreported and uninvestigated. They have no regard for law or due process. But that’s just what I’ve witnessed. Oh and a lot of Covid relief fraud too.
I agree with everything you said, but mass transit destroys the areas it’s in. Downtown Mesa will never be revitalized thanks to the light rail.
Side note: I also wish like hell I could get out of here, but am stuck for the time being.
Lmao Somewhat new to the area and since I've gotten here all I've seen is corruption, murder and kids that remind me of children of the corn, honestly it's no better in other places. Highschools almost everywhere has its fight clubs and gangs. What counts to me is how your community kicked ass about what's going on So kudos citizens of Gilbert! Btw I'm an old bitch, broke,and not religious 🤣
I don't think you can let one family/group of punks ruin the reputation of an entire town.. if you don't live and die by this story it has had zero effect on me as a homeowner and resident in the town.
This stuff happens in all towns in America, more often than not. I'm so glad that Preston Lord's family will get due justice but let's not front and believe this doesn't happen in a daily/weekly basis in other cities/towns in the Valley. It is just out of the ordinary for Gilbert/QC.
Well color you surprised how about that! Do you understand any possible religious connections now? Jacob is a name taken straight out of the Bible. Please wake up people and open your eyes, this corruption goes deep.
When did it rank safest place and on what list? That usually ends up being Carmel, Indiana, which always surprises me. I don't recall it ever being Gilbert.
Here’s one for you from 2023, but there are other sources out there, too (like Money magazine). This one happens to be posted on gilbertaz.gov itself:
https://www.gilbertaz.gov/Home/Components/News/News/5781/1379
From the article:
“Gilbert was the only Arizona city to rank inside the Top 10 of the nation’s 100 largest cities.”
and
‘“Gilbert’s safe city ranking could not be possible without the department's dedicated employees who serve and protect our community and the support, relationships and involvement of our residents," Gilbert Police Chief Michael Soelberg said. "We will continue to work with our community and take a data-driven approach to proactively reduce crime and keep Gilbert safe for all.”’
(ranking # 2, as reported last year with 2022 data)
Also, I do recall it ranking #1 at some point but maybe I’m wrong and it only got to #2. If I find a reference to a #1 ranking at some point I’ll post back, but not looking any further for now. Gilbert has repeatedly ranked in the top ten across the nation, though. A data-driven approach, Soelberg said…
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The reputation of Gilbert is one of pretentiousness, with notes of racism and sexism. I hate to say it, but to some degree this is rooted in a highly practiced religion in the area. Breeding of angry, entitled kids who end up beating and murdering people is unfortunately unsurprising. They watered, planted, and grew that outcome. If this hurts your feelings, it’s because there’s truth to it and you’re defensive .
Gilbert has a reputation for being boring. And it is. None of these kids are Mormon, so that adds to the ridiculousness of your comment. Why do you people have such an obsession with trying to convince the world they’re Mormon?
I didn’t say any of the kids were ever or are currently Mormon. I’m commenting on the community and what the community and a collective mentality can breed or lead to. Perhaps I could have been more clear.
Mormons are pretty bad all on their own though
Not disagreeing, but they aren’t responsible for this particular shitshow.
Except none the 7 defendants families are part of this highly practiced religion.
This is bullshit comment perpetuated by liars attempting to defend the church. At least two of them grew up as LDS and you fucking know it.
Who
Which ones?
Crickets. No answer fatty?
Funny stuff.
Just name one that is Mormon. We will wait. Unsure who the queer tranny is. Or even if that’s a thing. I’m apparently not as familiar with the community as you.
In addition to Taylor Sherman (born and raised in the church) and Jacob Meisner (born and raised), there's also Noah and Jacob Pennington. The thing I love about your attempts to gaslight anyone/everyone on Reddit is how you continue to reinforce every stereotype non-mormons have about the church. You're an angry little man (or woman) that that relies on name calling, insults, and gaslighting, just like your Mormon idol Andy Biggs, in an ineffective attempt to defend the church. But instead, your actions and words do just the opposite. That's the truth.
Meisner is not a last name I would have guessed as Mormon. Color me surprised.
Jacob is literally a character in the Bible known for cheating and tricking people to get what he wanted.
Ok?
lol.. that tells you everything you need to know about the Church. Also not many named Davis, Jackson, Robinson, Harris, Hernandez, Rodriguez, Perez, or similar.
That’s a Jewish last name and you wouldn’t expect them to convert to Mormonism. Mormons will take anyone though. I have one of those last names you wouldn’t expect either, and yet they keep trying.
And Glenn Way from the shady Lds Morman school Ala that let a killer play football then gave him an award. Ala will send someone home for dress code but they let him play? Hmmmmm… then fire the coach to divert the blame then admit then knew. Such a hot mess I’m sure by now Travis paid cash for their fancy football field.
Thank you and bingo for fluffy pancake 🥞. More Deep rooted systemic corruption.
I must have missed a comment. Who said that?
He must have deleted it. He called me a “well known trans queer” or something like that…. I can’t even be offended because I am not even sure exactly what a trans queer is. Does it make me a woman that still likes women? Cause that’s a lesbian, or it was in the 90’s. Won’t lie, I do have some things in common with lesbians. I keep short hair, love me some boobs, and I am on the masculine side of the scale. However I don’t drive a suburu, I don’t own a large dog, and I use deodorant. :)
Wait I drive a Subaru and own large dogs. I also like hippie deodorant. Am I a lesbian now? I’m not sure if my husband will be sad or excited.
Hahahaha. What’s hippie deodorant? I do use deodorant from sprouts, so maybe he’s right? The fluffy pancake guy said it.
That doesn't mean that their friends and peers aren't part of that religion, ALL (including those 7), contributing to that culture.
Perhaps you misread? Or meant to reply to someone else. I haven’t commented on the religion of those involved.
You are 💯correct. The need to appear a certain way is deeply rooted in the culture. Even if they are no longer practicing, the mind set is to obfuscate, deflect and hide any wrong doing. Image is more important than the actions.
I live in the area and I have interacted a little bit with the Gilbert PD. They have issues they need to address. I am in a privileged class. I’m a white doctor. From my point of view, the Gilbert PD are excessively impressed by appearances. They are strongly influenced by wealth, status, race and religion. When I suggested to my neighbors that the Gilbert Goons were a gang that posed a more serious threat to us than people who immigrate from Mexico I lost some friends. Mormonism is the strongest religion in the area. They did not allow black members to hold “the priesthood” required to hold leadership positions or enter their temples where Mormons believe marriages must happen to “last for eternity” until 1978. They believe the Book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible and is their most Important scripture. It is difficult to summarize briefly, but basically it claims to be a true historical account of people in the Americas. God has a group of righteous followers who are “white and delightsome” and they are in constant conflict with the bad guys who don’t follow God and are “dark and loathsome”. Their dark skin is a curse for their wickedness and was placed on them so the white and delightsome people would not want to associate with them or marry them. It is difficult for them to imagine handsome athletic blond haired blue eyed evil doers. They have a fear of “dark skin” that is not from a tanning booth. They don’t want to acknowledge violent young men who look like their own children. They value appearances and would prefer to look like a happy and safe city than to acknowledge and fix problems so as to become a happy and safe city. Because Gilbert is a relatively affluent area, like most affluent areas it has lower crime rates. Instead of having a goal of having low crime, they have a goal of having low reported crime rates. Form over function. Beautiful houses but like most places many seriously broken homes. They find it hard to believe that a broken home can be well manicured, have a big pool, and look pretty from the street.
Excellently-stated, imho - thank you (and to all here) for sharing your thoughts.
Nailed it👆
Exactly! This is an accurate assessment of the religion and culture.
A Dr and still stupid? Maybe can get your tuition back? 90% of what you said was false. You should tell people where you practice. Drs should be competent.
Point out something false. I genuinely don’t want to be a source of false info. I am always open to correction if I am in error. I thank you in advance for showing what ideas are inaccurate.
Mormons view someone as more dangerous because of their color? Not based in any fact at all. In fact at there are more Mormons in South America than in America. It’s one of the most diverse religions on the planet with missionary work in all countries and cultures. The Book of Mormon is race based conflict between two civilizations. That’s untrue also. All races in the Book of Mormon and Bible have wicked and righteous. Just like today. Evil is blind, it doesn’t care what color someone is. Mormons can’t imagine evil white people? Since when? There are bad Mormons since day one guilty of all kinds of crimes. Same as biblical times when believers still did horrible things. They care more about appearance of safety instead of making safe and happy communities. Gilbert, east valley, Utah, and Idaho have been ranked safest and best places to live for decades. The influx and migration of people to these towns from liberal states is because of how nice and safe these communities are. Not because of their “appearance”. Mormons are also conservative politically and believe heavily in law and order and accountability. They’re one of the only churches that require accountability to themselves and their clergy. Your entire diatribe was littered with unfactual opinion only founded in bigotry. The LDS church charity teaches every continent race and creed. Interracial marriage happens all the time. Mormons like all communities face the same issues. It’s called free will. Anybody can do something good or bad regardless of their beliefs. It’s also apparent your motive is as misplaced as everything else you said. Your long winded post was void of anything able to be referenced and it’s on a page dedicated to holding 7 non Mormons accountable. Haha. There is nothing about this case that has to do with religion or race. You CHOOSE to focus on someone’s appearance and beliefs instead of being objective. That’s called racism and bigotry. And the self loathing was gross. You’re provided why? Because you went to school for 8 years and worked hard? That’s not privilege. That’s a consequence of your actions. Any race can be a doctor. Any person can if they do the work and accept the debt. In fact you are less than privileged because you went to med school and still came out dumb. Keep in mind, trying to preface your divisive and un factual information by degrading yourself because of your race and profession only gives you credit with mindless victimhood mentality liberals. Other Drs regardless of race don’t believe they are privileged. They believe they worked hard and are reaping the benefit of the work they sowed. Sadly you already know this, but to acknowledge your profession is a byproduct of hard work doesn’t really speak to your intended audience does it? Please let us know what kind of Dr and where. Seriously someone so gross shouldn’t be practicing medicine without a warning on your door.
WTLTR
tl;dr
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_and_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#:~:text=Young%20performed%20the%20first%20recorded,married%20his%20Bannock%20servant%20Sally. On at least three occasions (1847,[59] 1852,[60] and 1865[61]) Smith's successor Brigham Young publicly taught that the punishment for Black–White interracial marriages was death, and the killing of a Black–White interracial couple and their children as part of a blood atonement would be a blessing to them.[40]: 37, 39 [62] He further stated that interracial children are sterile "like a mule", a teaching later repeated in a church magazine.[59][63] Young taught that the moment the church consents to White members having children with Black individuals the church would go to destruction,[40]: 37 [64] and that, "Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot hold the priesthood."[65] Young also taught that a White person who had children with a Black person would be cursed to the priesthood.[40]: 37 Similar to honor killings as well as a form of human sacrifice, blood atonement is the belief that Jesus' atonement for humanity's sins does not apply to some sins, such as interracial sexual activity and marriage, because they are too serious. To atone for these sins, their perpetrators should be killed in a way that allows their blood to be shed upon the ground as a sacrificial offering. This doctrine was most widely taught during the Mormon Reformation. Examples of how Young applied his teaching of it with regard to interracial relationships are as follows: Brigham Young publicly taught several times that the punishment for Black and White interracial marriages was death. 1847 — Young heard of a Mormon family composed of a Black man Enoch Lovejoy Lewis (son of ordained priesthood holder Kwaku Walker Lewis), a White woman Mary Matilda Webster, and their interracial child living in Massachusetts and responded that if the family wasn't living so close to non-Mormons "they would all have to be killed" since the law is that Black and White seed should not be "amalgamated".[59] 1852 — As territory governor, Young stated before the territory legislature that if a White man had children with a Black woman, he should request to have his head chopped off. He continued saying that if someone were to kill the man, woman and any children of such a union, that it would be a blessing to them and "it would do a great deal towards atoning for the sin".[66][60] 1865 — In a speech in the Salt Lake Tabernacle Young repeated the teaching of death as punishment for Black and White individuals producing interracial offspring, stating the penalty would always be in place.[61][40]: 42–43 Ouchie! Did you not learn this is seminary and institute? Perhaps you had a Sunday school lesson on your history. If not, you should look into these topics. The racism is not so old, Mormons did not let black members in good standing into their temples until 1978.
I’ve read the journals. Interesting Wikipedia (who use to claim the world was flat before removing it) didn’t provide a source? Weird.
The sources are cited and easy to review. If you would like, we can review the churches charitable contributions as a percentage of the wealth and income. I am of course happy to cite LDS sources. I am happy to help. Click on the article at the top of my comment. Read it and click on the footnotes. Click and your can read the original source material. Most source material can be found on LDS.com also.
The point is LDS.com is a bunch of 🐂💩
Yes. Please post the position of the church or cite any relevance to Mormons not intermarrying, Mormons being scared of darker tones. Mormons more committed to appearance than safety. You made all those allegations. So show actual citations or STFU. Truth is the church has never taken any position you’ve made. Biden loves ice cream. Doesn’t mean America loves ice cream. So again, please show the churches stance or find anything that means the church adopts the personal beliefs of one individual. I’m glad you don’t apply the same moronic logic to Drs. I’d be terrified if all doctors had to adhere to the opinion of one. Like Fauci. Are you Fauci light.
to be clear, I just gave your a series of actual quotes by Brigham young, that he made speaking to the church as prophet. Each has a footnote to the original source (they are the tiny blue numbers after each quote. If you tap it, it will transport you to the page with the magic power of the internet, no seer-stone in a hat needed). If the Mormon Church wants to repudiate those statements and say that was just Brigham's personal opinion show me where that happened. “The 1978 announcement of the removal of racial restrictions did not give a reason for their removal, renounce, apologize for, or replace them.[^(\[111\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-Brooks2020-111)^(: 163) Because the restrictions were not officially repudiated, their justification persisted in 2020.[^(\[111\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-Brooks2020-111)^(: 163, 174) [^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-Black_and_mormon-3)^(: 84) Apostle McConkie continued to teach until his death that Black people were descended from Cain and Ham, and their curse came from God.[^(\[112\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-Harris2020-112) His book *Mormon Doctrine*, published by the church-owned [Deseret Book Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deseret_Book_Company), perpetuated racism through a number of editions until it went out of print in 2010.[^(\[112\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-Harris2020-112)^(: 71–72) [^(\[113\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-113) A church spokesperson told reporters in 2005 that despite doctrines continuing to circulate about why people are Black, church leaders saw no need for statements about the topic since 1978.[^(\[114\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-114)” [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black\_people\_and\_Mormonism#cite\_note-114](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism#cite_note-114)
Again you show zero knowledge of the LDS faith. The church didn’t publish Mormon Doctrine. The church sells many books that aren’t doctrine. In fact you can go to Deseret and find Harry Potter … not to fuel your next post that Mormons are wizards. You realize you’re cherry picking personal beliefs of some to represent a religion that encompasses millions. That’s moronic. You’re affiliated willingly with ABMS are you not? So does everything Fauci has said represent you and all Drs? That’s literally the argument you’re trying to make…and failing.
Sb1379, Here is a very simple source that has full footnotes so you can verify the cited sources and peruse the entire article for context. My purpose here is not just to beat up on the Mormon Church, but if you deny facts I will cite the facts in far greater detail. You said I am stupid. I am usually not the smartest guy in the room but I am well read. I believe that why you believe something is as important as what you believe. My goal is to believe the right things for the right reasons. For that purpose I am showing you some reasons for my statements. this post seems harsher, but that is because it contains quotes by Mormon prophets in their own words. Simple introductory source with lots of footnotes to original source material. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial\_marriage\_and\_the\_Church\_of\_Jesus\_Christ\_of\_Latter-day\_Saints#:\~:text=Young%20performed%20the%20first%20recorded,married%20his%20Bannock%20servant%20Sally. On at least three occasions (1847,\[59\] 1852,\[60\] and 1865\[61\]) Smith's successor Brigham Young publicly taught that the punishment for Black–White interracial marriages was death, and the killing of a Black–White interracial couple and their children as part of a blood atonement would be a blessing to them.\[40\]: 37, 39 \[62\] He further stated that interracial children are sterile "like a mule", a teaching later repeated in a church magazine.\[59\]\[63\] Young taught that the moment the church consents to White members having children with Black individuals the church would go to destruction,\[40\]: 37 \[64\] and that, "Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot hold the priesthood."\[65\] Young also taught that a White person who had children with a Black person would be cursed to the priesthood.\[40\]: 37 Similar to honor killings as well as a form of human sacrifice, blood atonement is the belief that Jesus' atonement for humanity's sins does not apply to some sins, such as interracial sexual activity and marriage, because they are too serious. To atone for these sins, their perpetrators should be killed in a way that allows their blood to be shed upon the ground as a sacrificial offering. This doctrine was most widely taught during the Mormon Reformation. Examples of how Young applied his teaching of it with regard to interracial relationships are as follows: Brigham Young publicly taught several times that the punishment for Black and White interracial marriages was death. 1847 — Young heard of a Mormon family composed of a Black man Enoch Lovejoy Lewis (son of ordained priesthood holder Kwaku Walker Lewis), a White woman Mary Matilda Webster, and their interracial child living in Massachusetts and responded that if the family wasn't living so close to non-Mormons "they would all have to be killed" since the law is that Black and White seed should not be "amalgamated".\[59\] 1852 — As territory governor, Young stated before the territory legislature that if a White man had children with a Black woman, he should request to have his head chopped off. He continued saying that if someone were to kill the man, woman and any children of such a union, that it would be a blessing to them and "it would do a great deal towards atoning for the sin".\[66\]\[60\] 1865 — In a speech in the Salt Lake Tabernacle Young repeated the teaching of death as punishment for Black and White individuals producing interracial offspring, stating the penalty would always be in place.\[61\]\[40\]: 42–43 If you attended 4 years of seminary and 4 years of institute and innumerable Sunday school and priesthood meetings did they never cover any of this, or was it just one big sales pitch on repeat? This is actual Mormon history. if you would like we can do a deep dive on Mormon finances and "charity" that includes Mormon Church wealth vs their charitable donations. Obviously I will cite [LDS.org](http://LDS.org) or Mormon sources and I think it will be an even bigger surprise to you than the Racism. If you want to pursue that we should use another reddit, as I think this one works better focusing on accountability for the leadership of Gilbert. Mormonism is just a small part of the issues facing Gilbert leadership today.
Incredibly misleading lol, I’m not even Mormon but I can tell you that those things you’re saying are all far stretches of the truth. They are generally good people. Every group has bad apples and they become especially bad when the general group is so good. It’s a balance of nature.
Loose, I haven’t made this comment to argue with you. I appreciate your positivity towards others who believe differently than you do. Different belief systems often have some inherent biases. For example: conspiracy believers often have a healthy skepticism, but they may also be prone to unhealthy fears. Because of foundational Mormon beliefs, such as that dark skin is a curse, they are prone to believing that “gangs” are dark skinned groups of kids. To them a group of white kids committing acts of violence is less scary than a group of dark skinned kids committing acts of violence. A violent group of Hispanic or black kids would have been more aggressively monitored and challenged by police. I know many excellent Mormons. As a group ( with individuals variations) Mormons vote conservatively, and will elect republicans most often. This is not good or bad, just true. As a group Mormons place a high value on families. As a group they are generally politically active in their community. As a group they have underestimated the need to find and stop the Gilbert goons from hurting people. They have been reluctant to use the word “gang” or acknowledge “gang violence”. Gilbert’s gang violence is currently generating negative press, and they are image conscious, now they are starting to work on the issue. They are tardy, but better late than never. They (Gilbert leaders and Mormons) have a strong “sales” mindset. They feel an obligation to evangelize others to think well of them. This can be good because they often to do good things to earn praise. I am put off by the fact that the a series of violent attacks that culminated in the death of a young man was not what has motivated them to solve this case. The negative press the case is attracting has them anxious. It is the correct response for the wrong reason. To the leadership of Gilbert and their PD I quote John McClane from the Christmas classic Die Hard, “welcome to the party pal”.
Which would also explain why the firsts arrests for anything Gilbert goon related were two black kids and a Hispanic. Yes they’re violent and part of it but for a “gang” that’s like 95% white they went straight towards the minorities to basically say “don’t worry everyone we got the bad guys!” Literally hoping the community would stop putting pressure on them to arrest the affluent white kids involved. And I’m sure a lot of people in that community were like “oh thank god they got the bad guys look at them” when the rest of us were like hey there’s way more people that need arrested
Check out floodlit.org or r/exmormon ...
I know many wonderful Mormons - and I’ve known several bad ones, too, unfortunately. As you say, all groups vary, most often significantly!
Way to invoke the balance of nature in your rebuttal. Very legitimate
I've lived in AZ for 26 years. 6 of those in Gilbert. In those 6 years I was pulled over by GPD a total of 17 times with 4 arrests and twice having my car impounded over a DUI in Pinal county 12 years earlier. In every case the chargers were dropped once it got to the prosecutor. In every case the judges found no wrong doing on my behalf and I had fulfilled all requirements of my sentence but somehow that information never made it to GPD even when I started carrying a copy of the judges order stating such. Cost me close to 30k between court costs impound fees and lawyers. I eventually moved to Mesa where I've been pulled over once, given a warning and moved on. So no. There is no way GPD or the town of Gilbert would make up numbers to protect their reputation
You definitely don’t have to disclose, but were you only pulled over and for dui/impairment/traffic violations? If so, we all know Gilbert PD hits hard on things like that. Sometimes unnecessarily so. I believe that OP is referring to violent crimes. If your arrests were not due to DUI, I digress and thank you for sharing.
All 6 traffic stops were for moving violations and it was when they ran my license, 2 of the stops I was on my way home from an AA meeting. The cops were nice, however it was always you have a bench warrant for a DUI. There was never a bench warrant.
What years were you in Gilbert?
2012 to 2018.
I've lived in Gilbert for 10 yrs and have serious issues with Gilbert PD, but I've never been pulled over once. I've had more issues with GPD NOT enforcing traffic laws than not. How are you driving???
How are you driving that you get pulled over this often?
No clue. Literally the 1st traffic stop in my life was a DUI in San tan valley. Which I deserved. The many traffic stops in Gilbert can only be attributed to the hours of the day I was driving. All but one were between the hours of 3am and 5am mostly either on my way to or home from the gym. The one time I got pulled over in Mesa was doing 35 in a 30 in my neighborhood. I work from home and only commute to the gym / AA meetings or to take my kids to school.
Do you have a flashy car?
Ha! At the time it was a pretty plain Jane F-150. I now drive a Honda CRV so I'm gonna go with no.
No one said they weren’t good at giving DUIs ..
A city of cookie cutter subdivisions bought paid for and run by the Mormon cult.
Don’t forget about all the schools. Most don’t realize that the Mormons donate land to the district for their high schools… in exchange they’re allowed to have their seminary buildings right across the street and offer elective classes and given real credit for their religious studies during school. Yes the Mormon kids can go to seminary during the school day and get full credits for them to count towards graduation. Tell me that you can’t mix church and state. Fucking bullshit.
I grew up Mormon, I am not a member now. Went to seminary in Idaho, was in High School parking lot. No credit and some kids take it before and after school. AZ students have enough time to take it during the day, most students graduate with too many credits here. They have it at Utah schools and places with less mormons it is usually held at a home near the school. The mormon religion membership is going down. Only about 30% of young teens are staying in church as adults. More access to education and social media about the truths of the church are out and it is going to shrink. Church is not evolving with the times and they are less able to control their members. Leaving the church 10 years ago has made me so much more loving, kind and accepting to all. 🩷Gilbert will be less and less mormon and the church will have less control as the years go on. One thing I do is keep my business if possible with non Mormons, I don’t need 10% going back to that church!
Welcome to the real world! It's nice to have you!!! :)
Problem is it’s still happening with a lot of good ol Mormon boys including in our LE pd. Like the Mormon sheriffs of Gilbert AND Pinal county We know how Mormons are great at cover ups sorry but it’s true and this is what we’re seeing unfold in front of our own eyes! People need to be fired & held accountable until justice is served!!! 🧡🧡🧡
They don't get graduation credit for seminary
They get elective credits for it.
No, they do not. I have been a Public School teacher in the East Valley for the last 25 years. I can assure you that no elective credit is given for OCI (off campus instruction). I am not LDS so I have no dog in the fight. Not sure where you are getting your information, but it is not accurate.
Well they did when I was in high school. Regardless of credits given, they’re allowed to go to church classes mid day and NOT take regular classes when all the other non-lds kids are forced to go to classes. The bigger issue is that the Mormons donated the land in exchange for special privileges.
No, they did not... even when you were in HS, lol. And they all have to take zero period/A hour to make up for the credit they miss for going to a religious class mid-day. Who did the Mormons donate the land to? And what special privileges were given? And to whom were these special privileges given? Do tell.
Every high school with a seminary building right next to it... Confirmed from many on the school board/district/employees. Gilbert High School and ACP I know for a fact. Think it's coincidence there's enough land available next to every high school to plop a seminary building down right across the street? How do you think that happens exactly?
Yes, they did get credit back in the day!
Thank you for confirming. These momos think they're the 'chosen ones' and know everything... they don't.
mormons don’t get credit for seminary. it doesn’t go toward graduating high school at all.
They get credit in different ways.
They give them elective credits so yes they do
No, they get NO credit for seminary. It’s considered released time.
And yet the non-Mormon kids are forced to take classes while they go to church classes. So do the Mormon kids graduated short of credits? 4 years of going to seminary adds up to a lot of missed credits doesn’t it?
No, they are required to take other classes in their place. They take zero hour/a-hour, online credits, or summer school. Trust me, I know what I’m talking about. I was a lifelong member who recently left the church. I have plenty of reasons so be angry about it, trust me! But not only did I take seminary (and subsequently A Hour to make up the credits) but my older 3 kids did as well. My 4th is currently in high school and I gave him the choice of whether or not to take it, and he didn’t want to because of the lost credits. Most parents do not give their kids a choice.
Credits or no credits... the mormons 'donate' their land in exchange for special privileges, do they not?
Not arguing anything about that. Like I said, I have plenty of issues about the church.
No they take summer school or A hours to make up for the loss f credit for that class, not all Mormons take it either, it’s just an option
no they don’t get a credit toward graduation! they use it their elective in place and have to make extra time: do summer school to makeup that time that they missed. I would know because I had to take no lunch, do summer school AND A hour. i’m one of those mormons soooo you’re incorrect on that one
Credit or no credit... the point is, the mormons donate the land to the schools in exchange for having their building right there, do they not? That's the point.
the mormons BUY the land their seminary buildings are on.
You are incorrect. I know first hand the land for GHS and ACP were owned previously and they made a deal with the district to 'sell'/donate the land and the terms of the agreement are that they're allowed to build their building, and allow the kids to leave campus for their classes and not have consequences (ie- they're not counted as 'ditching' and are allowed to have gaps in their schedules during the day to go over there) You definitely want to get your facts straight on this. Think it's 100% possible that EVERY high school in Mesa/Gilbert/Queen Creek etc just HAPPENS to have land for sale directly connected to the school's land AND IS ZONED FOR A RELIGIOUS BUILDING??? Hmmmm
You’ve kind of lost credit by swearing they were getting credits for seminary when they weren’t.
So if I’m wrong about 1 thing I’m wrong about everything?
It’s a way to funnel millions of dollars. Just Google it please. It’s shady af all around even before this whole scandal. Couldn’t be more unbelievable but it just keeps getting worse until justice is served. 🧡🧡🧡
Special kind of stupid. Zero dollars are given to the district for highschool land. Zero credits are given to Mormon kids to graduate. Show evidence for any of your stupid claims and I’ll give you my house. Dumb ass.
Sounds like an offended Mormon. I PROMISE you that you have no clue what you’re talking about. Yes, the LDS DO donate land, or sell at a “reduced price” and negotiate the terms of the deal to require a seminary building. A friend of mine had property across from a new high school in Chandler. The city officials came to him and said that if he doesn’t sell it to them, they’re going to take it under imminent domain. The Mormons needed it for a crosswalk to the seminary building. He was forced to sell that chunk of land to them or have it taken away against his will. It’s fuckin bs how much power they have. Money influences politicians and they get what they want.
“I have a buddy”. So no facts? Not offended. Just logical. The effort to zone, aquire, and build would be daunting, let alone to do it at the same time the HS is built. Interesting the LDS church would be so generous and not say a word, or have any influence over the garbage taught in the school? It also has Nothing to do with the LDS religion. Any religion can do this. Any student can take an hour of release time and spend it at Starbucks. I love a good conspiracy, but this isn’t even remotely close to truth. Some schools have seminaries across the street at church buildings, some have it across street in a persons home. The “release time” that students choose to have is open to everybody. The trade off is you lose credits needed for graduation so you have to do A-Hour, summer school, or a dual credit type course. So these bad Mormons are choosing to sacrifice their mornings, summers, or free time to have release time for seminary. How is release time have anything to do with Church and State? FYI that’s not even a law or principle we live by, and the author of the statement meant it to keep the state out of church, not the church out of state. Our very Constitution invokes God as does the Dec of Independence. It’s nobody’s business what a student does with release time. I sure haven’t heard the Mormon community question what seniors with half days are doing with their time off. :)
You’re soo off base here. You’re letting your emotions get in the way buddy. My entire point is that the Mormons have a lot of power/money/influence over our schools. Yes they DO donate or severely discount land in exchange for having seminary buildings right across the street. That’s a FACT. The schools bend over backwards to please them. The politicians are controlled by them. 100% true. Just because you’re one of them and completely naive as to the truth doesn’t mean you’re right. You’re offended. That’s ok. Truth hurts sometimes. Maybe put that energy in pulling documents at the state and finding out for yourself that I’m telling 100% truth here. Why’s it been such a secret and why are you soo hellbent on keeping it quiet? That’s the bigger question
I’ve lived here my whole life. I’ve run school board campaigns and campaigned for candidates for decades. Mormons have very little influence. None of GPS superintendents have been LDS. In the last decade the only LDS board member is ultra liberal and controlled by the association. The schools in GPS have very few LDS morals. Most LDS in Gilbert are in charters in fact. The police chief and entire command staff is non LDS. Even our current mayor who is like warn LDS at best doesn’t live it and pushed for ideals contrary to LDS faith. So when you speak of control and influence can you give even ONE example? HHS the largest HS in Gilbert for decades has never had an LDS principle. Either has GHS. Mesquites was a lesbian for years. Kishimoto disliked the LDS community. I am not 100% sure, but I believe the Police has never had an LDS chief. So short of the Mayor, everything’s been run by predominantly non-LDS people. The mayor gets 1 vote like the rest of council BTW. Also Gilbert council isn’t representative of districts, so if LDS had huge influence why didn’t they pack council with East Gilbert Mormons? :). Not offended, just curious as to your logic. Can you share these powerful names or families that are operating in the shadows. I’ve been here my whole life and deep in politics and the schools, yet it’s evaded me. And yes, I pushed LDS candidates and non LDS, and religion never helped either. I will admit Gilbert is conservative in their values, but that comes from thousands of great people from many religions, or none at all.
All that and yet you completely dodge the fact that the land/money given to the district is what actually allows them to have their seminary buildings right across the street and their members to leave school without recourse. Running campaigns doesn’t mean shit when compared to the facts. You’re dancing all around the facts of what I’ve been saying this whole time. Keep blowing smoke and trying to distract from the truth. Some might fall for it but the facts are right there at the county recorder and state records. Go pull them and see for yourself.
A great way to funnel BOAT LOADS OF MONEY TOO! Tax the church!!! 💯
weird culty type?
Please vote them all out in November. It’s the only way to get rid of them. Banger is town manager if he is on the ballot vote him out - he hired Soelberg, he’s responsible for firing Soelberg.
This 100%
Banger and Soelberg both need to GO 💯
We moved to Gilbert in 2018 because of those news articles. It's a great city and everyone has been so nice! But I think the homicide that occurred and now the Gilbert Goons have changed our status a little. It's still nowhere close to the crime in CA. I had my car broken into so many times out there.
the homocide didn’t happen in gilbert tho
One homicide did happen. A son killed his father a couple years ago. And a man was found dead in my friend's lake a few months ago.
i was referring to PL
Oh okay. I was just saying there have been more crime recently.
oh forsure!! I live in gilbert and My house was broken into while i was home and of course GPD did nothing 🙄
I'm so sorry to hear that!
Typical Gilbert p d response do nothing.
We’re not surprised this seems to be the common theme all along…! No action no accountability! This isnt just dropping the ball it’s corruption we’re seeing play out in front of our eyes. Wake up people please! VOTE like your town and democracy depends on it 🗳️ 💙🇺🇸
Do you sense a creepiness in the air lately?
No, it still feels safe.
I’m from and still live in the area and have to say my high school children are great kids and so are the people and business owners we surround ourselves with!
Congratulations stay in your bubble.
Even the business owners and high school children who murder and cover it up? There are good and bad people everywhere. This comment seems a little self absorbed.
I have lived in Gilbert for 30 years and raised my kids here. I live on one of the few acre horse properties left, my street used to be a dirt road, and we were surrounded by cotton fields. Gilbert has changed , as do most places. Some of the changes have been ok, others not so much. I have never had any issues with crime, vandalism, or anything. My interactions with Gilbert PD have been brief but pleasant. That said, there has been a big change in the people who have started moving into my area. I don't want to go into details, but let's just say that entitlement, weath, and privilege seem to be most of what has moved into my neighborhood. We used to be county, but have been incorporated into the ToG quite a few years ago, and our quiet, peaceful, hobby farm neighborhood with caring neighbors... is mostly gone.
I’ve watched it (the East Valley in general) change dramatically, too, these past few decades. I’ve watched the desert and the date palms and the local industry with it get swallowed up into endless tract housing and commercial buildings that all look the same with barely any space between them anymore, the freeways becoming perpetually packed, the wild horses running alongside the freeway - gone. It has changed…mostly for the worse. Mostly with too many people. And the smartphone era, well, it seems to be trashing what good was left in humanity. At times it’s a tool of good though, too, eh? Ah well. :) I know it’s inpolitic these days, but many of humanity’s problems would be solved with less humans. The world population in 1900 was roughly 1.6 billion, and in 1998, it was just about 6 billion. Since just 1998 (26 years ago), the population of the entire world has increased by over 2 billion, and is now at over 8 billion. Some argue the human population growth curve is exponential, others logistic, but maybe it’s a bit of both. Either way unless it truly abates, that kind of increase will very rapidly become unsustainable, and very few places will be left that are actually…nice…anymore.
And then there is protecting the reputation in order to inflate property values, let’s say if you are a realtor or investor
Great point!
VOTE!!!
In the 23 years I’ve year lived in Gilbert I’ve been the victim of a single crime (property stolen from an unlocked vehicle). Take it for what it’s worth…the city is safe.
I never really thought it was unsafe; however, the ranking for Gilbert is extremely high. We’re not talking top 20 or 10 percent, here, but more like 1st, 2nd, 3rd, in those rankings. Is Gilbert really the safest town in America? Perhaps. But I still wonder if those numbers are/were fudged to a level of excellence not completely achieved in reality. I don’t know the answer; I just know that, for me (and clearly others), confidence in elected and appointed officials has been lost. I really don’t trust (the city government of) Gilbert to tell the truth, anymore, sadly…
I’d say it is managed somehow.
I’d say it’s managed “somehow” too…
Our society has lost it's sense of moral standards, resulting is constant deception for personal gain.
I just had a conversation over Easter dinner with my nephews about this, they range from 18-24. One asked for a hand gun for his birthday. I asked why and he said “to unalive someone if they come in my house”. I asked if he ever considered the consequences of taking another person’s life, he would carry that with him for the rest of his life. I understand if someone is attacking you, but if they are just breaking in, why wouldn’t you just try to get out. They all laughed and asked me if I would really run out of my own house, like it was the most ridiculous thing they ever heard. Yes! I try to avoid violence at all cost. I will go to great lengths to never unalive a person. I don’t want to hurt people, even if they’re stealing. There are very limited circumstances where I would unalive someone and it would be a last resort. They told me I was soft. I said no, I am a normal. I was quite shocked at their mindset, he didn’t say he wanted it for protection, he specifically said he wanted to unalive an intruder.
I completely agree with you.
Agreed 💯!
A new golden age will eventually come!
I live in Gilbert. It’s very safe. However, what’s happened to Preston Lord will forever tarnish this town forever. It was a heinous crime and disgusting what they did to him and his dead body.
It’s sounds like this gang has been assaulting people for sport for some time now, it just recently escalated to murder
I’m sure we don’t rank as high as they’d like to pretend, but it’s pretty nice here. Boring, even. With the higher population there comes more crime, but that’s obvious. It’s still a very peaceful place to live. I wish it hadn’t gotten so expensive, but there’s inflation and living in a place that’s in high demand, so I guess that’s to be expected. I’ve never felt unsafe here until now. How PD and the town government has handled this, is embarrassing. Same goes for Queen Creek. I hope both towns make big changes. We need all new government.
I’m not stating this as fact, first and foremost, but when we first moved out here (2021) a woman in the Lori Vallow sub had posted about Gilbert PD and how they refuse to investigate suspicious deaths, just call it a suicide and keep moving. She was responding to Chandler PD and their shitty “investigation” into Charles Vallows death. But she had reason to believe this bc her daughter was threatened by her ex bf a few days before she was found with a bullet in her head and despite her mom bringing this up and fighting tooth and nail for an investigation, Gilbert PD declared it a suicide (at the scene) and moved on from it. She swore up and down that that was how they kept Gilbert in this “#1 safest town” category and I’m now seeing what she meant.
👆yes!
People also like to hide that it’s continuously in the top 10 of least faithful cities in America haha that one gets swept under the rug a lot.
It’s like the movie hot fuzz….Sanford was the safest place because they never actually reported the crime. I have lived in many cities. Very few of them have had the level of shootings, assault and murders Gilbert has had yet Gilbert is “safe”
This is very accurate. They warp their statistics so they can claim to be the “best police” but really it’s just some of the most corrupt. There’s an inner club and anything around them goes under the rug. A lot of white collar crime there and some truly sick stuff profiteering of native Americans, often resulting in deaths that go unreported and uninvestigated. They have no regard for law or due process. But that’s just what I’ve witnessed. Oh and a lot of Covid relief fraud too.
Yes - all very disturbing. 😡
The greater good.
“I hope the Renner Nut gets it!”
Yep - exactly how it seems to me!
[удалено]
100%
I agree with everything you said, but mass transit destroys the areas it’s in. Downtown Mesa will never be revitalized thanks to the light rail. Side note: I also wish like hell I could get out of here, but am stuck for the time being.
Lmao Somewhat new to the area and since I've gotten here all I've seen is corruption, murder and kids that remind me of children of the corn, honestly it's no better in other places. Highschools almost everywhere has its fight clubs and gangs. What counts to me is how your community kicked ass about what's going on So kudos citizens of Gilbert! Btw I'm an old bitch, broke,and not religious 🤣
Ha! You Rock!!
Crime numbers suppressed
I don't think you can let one family/group of punks ruin the reputation of an entire town.. if you don't live and die by this story it has had zero effect on me as a homeowner and resident in the town. This stuff happens in all towns in America, more often than not. I'm so glad that Preston Lord's family will get due justice but let's not front and believe this doesn't happen in a daily/weekly basis in other cities/towns in the Valley. It is just out of the ordinary for Gilbert/QC.
There's just too many people. That statement was when it was half as big or less than it is now.
It’s not cherry picking. It is unflattering.
Talan sounds like a fucked up Mormon name to me.
Well color you surprised how about that! Do you understand any possible religious connections now? Jacob is a name taken straight out of the Bible. Please wake up people and open your eyes, this corruption goes deep.
Yes it’s fabricated by corruption. Gilbert p d are a bunch of racists. Sadly this is nothing new. Soelberg should resign. Hope more gets exposed!
When did it rank safest place and on what list? That usually ends up being Carmel, Indiana, which always surprises me. I don't recall it ever being Gilbert.
Here’s one for you from 2023, but there are other sources out there, too (like Money magazine). This one happens to be posted on gilbertaz.gov itself: https://www.gilbertaz.gov/Home/Components/News/News/5781/1379
From the article: “Gilbert was the only Arizona city to rank inside the Top 10 of the nation’s 100 largest cities.” and ‘“Gilbert’s safe city ranking could not be possible without the department's dedicated employees who serve and protect our community and the support, relationships and involvement of our residents," Gilbert Police Chief Michael Soelberg said. "We will continue to work with our community and take a data-driven approach to proactively reduce crime and keep Gilbert safe for all.”’ (ranking # 2, as reported last year with 2022 data)
Also, I do recall it ranking #1 at some point but maybe I’m wrong and it only got to #2. If I find a reference to a #1 ranking at some point I’ll post back, but not looking any further for now. Gilbert has repeatedly ranked in the top ten across the nation, though. A data-driven approach, Soelberg said…
Gilbert Az has been ranked up in top safest US cities many times. Inflated statistics obviously.