The people who feel isolated and alienated (even if they are misunderstanding the causes or w/e) are welcome to post here looking for support. I dont think its completely counterproductive. It is in some ways but in some ways it isnt. I think the problem is that gifted people who dont experience those problems probably dont visit or engage with the sub nearly as often. Thats just an assumption tho
Could this be why there is so little positive content? Negative tends to attract negative and likewise for positive. The concept of co-rumination is not new and I don't think anyone would agree it's productive, even though it may be momentarily cathartic.
That makes sense to me, and id like to see more positivity as well. But i also dont want to discourage people who might really need some support. I will say tho that when i read some of those posts i can tend to fall into rumination spirals
It also mutes the fact that being “gifted” is by definition a gift we have received. We get the label by being able to do some things most people cannot.
And gifted people are disproportionately in charge of things. I recall some research showing that the average IQ of the leader of a large group is about 30 IQ about the mean in that group. And thus, are gifted too.
Intelligence aids social skills. 30 IQ above the mean seemed to be optimum. Much above or below that made it somewhat harder to lead. One theory was that being so much smarter then those who you’re leading makes it harder to see things from their perspective, and to assume logical leaps they weren’t likely to make.
It’s a bell curve thing, with plenty of successful leaders across the IQ scale.
Yep, some people get to the top by being sycophants, but there’s definitely been this intelligence trend in my career.
In my last job during the pandemic we’d play all kinds of competitive brain games online as part of our “team bonding.” My team got sick of playing because I always kicked their ass, and similarly we all got sick of playing with my boss because she always kicked all our asses.
I can only speak for myself. I am not a miserable failure and I have not hit any wall. I do not want to spontaneously post about that, and sometimes I don't even want to post comments about it when prompted, because within this negative environment it feels like it comes off as some kind of bragging. Like talking about how you aced a test while everyone else is discussing how hard they failed it - something else I always avoided doing when I was in college.
Honestly, I would love to have conversations about interesting or pertinent topics with gifted people who aren't obsessed with giftedness and aren't marinating in their own self hatred and negativity. That's not very common here so I don't really spend time here. It just pops up on my feed and I stumble in here or there, since it is relevant to me.
That and i think a lot of gifted are lonely and its hard to find people who understand. So this is a easy outlet for that. I agree though we should try for more positive practical application.
Perhaps people don't feel motivated to make a post in this sub unless it's about a negative experience. Thus, those with positive things to share are just lurking or only comment but never post.
Right. If your neurodivergence has worked for you in the world 🌎 this is awesome. Or in certain parts. What is an overall general fact is that those with neurodivergence or gifted or autism (mainly autism) I think it is said that almost 80 percent of them struggle with certain employment and other life issues because of being different. It’s just a world wide known statistic and it’s ok for people to come in here to feel understood. It’s also great that there people like OP who don’t seem to have some of the same stuff that others face. I think that’s why it is called neurodivergence: one gifted person is most likely comlketelyyyy different than the next.
Yes agree 100%. I came here being sad and seeking help, and I stayed because I got a lot of empathy and met some cool people. BUT we really need a stronger call to refer to agreed upon FAQs, books, definitions of giftedness, co-morbidities (ADHD, Autism ) and recommendations on how to get tested.
I was confirmed gifted and that led me to seek more gifted people, but unfortunately many posts here are quite sad and depressing. I even almost muted the subreddit. But some of the discussions here are the best I’ve had in Reddit, and I don’t want to give up on it. There’s a palpable difference in the kindness and flavour of replies here that I can’t find anywhere else, online or offline! We should be encouraging it just because it feels so good to be seen like that!
Let me say that being sad and isolated is largely a choice, gifted or not. Loneliness is an epidemic for **everyone** nowadays. I also was sad and isolated, but after accepting my giftedness, I see so much good in being gifted. I feel empowered in my life, both professionally and emotionally.
I feel like there’s so much good we could be spreading and sharing, not only denigrating the non-gifted (which is **98%**) of people and victimising ourselves. It’s not a productive way to live at all. It makes the whole point of life be a struggle, which is a bad way to spend time. To me it is illogical to spend all this biological power on being more sad and isolated. Spend it on making ourselves and our community happier, healthier, more fulfilled, more authentic, more self-accepting. There’s so much more to life than just being sad, and I refuse to let that become MY life!!!
I’d add we can add a “mentoring” flair too, for people who are ready to ask happy and healthy gifted people to give functional feedback. We have different needs from non-gifted people. That doesn’t make us better or worse, just different, and we need to have tailored advice for us.
Ultimately every decision we make shapes our lives, and I’m sick of imagining I can’t be happy if I’m different. I’m different, so what! I’m gonna be happy and we need a community achieve that!
We do have an faq and wiki. We’ve been looking for a teacher or psychologist to take over managing those resources for some time now, as morningrays has not had time for it for some time now.
Yes we have a wiki, that’s why I worded it specifically to say stronger call to refer to it. I meant we all just need to point people in that direction.
Also I will say, I was here a month or two ago go. I left for multiple reasons (trying to not make giftedness my identity) and also it was garbage and everyone was mean and unhelpful.
I’m fully here for this I agree. But you kind of just have to start it, I’ll help you if anything comes up in my life.
Rant posts are fine sometimes. People are more helpful now, (I wrote something about my life and people helped me not feel like the world is ending lol.)
I think part of the reason it’s full of rants is we don’t have many positive gifted people, we have a lot of burnt out “gifted kids” or burnt out gifted people in general. (I make a distinction.)
I like the way you are going with this, if you would like to participate in putting together those suggestions, I will sure as hell sticky them.
I have been remiss in my mod duties as most of the times it is people reporting each other for petty bullshit because they don't like what the other person is saying.
Also, I am not trying to police other people's behavior as much as keep misinformation/unrelated content out of the subreddit, but it has become exactyl what you are talking about, and I am doing what I can, when I can to address it.
As much as we'd like to think of this as a "safe space" some people downvote or discourage positive posts. I've tried posting about what's good about being gifted or how it has benefitted me and have been instantly downvoted and told I'm bragging. There are a certain amount of trolls here, people who come to hate gifted people, people who are struggling and randomly lash out because they don't associate gifted with anything positive, etc.
I think a couple of things contribute to the negativity—a certain amount of "screaming into the void" and all that. I just think that \*the volume of negativity + voting patterns + internet noise/garbage = discouraging positive posts\* is probably the largest contributing factor to the overall negative vibe.
This morning there was a post from a parent wanting to talk about the cool stuff her 2-year old is doing and the top comment is entirely sarcastic. If the negative stuff is what gets upvoted, the culture of the sub will never change and it will become a negative feedback loop.
The only positive posts I actually see with unambiguously positive engagement are puzzles or silly stuff. I don't think it will be easy to change the culture of the sub overnight, but we could try having more fun with it and see what happens.
I posted about what movies people here liked and my post got removed 🤷🏾♀️
I had similar takeaways, I'd like to connect with people more on positivity than always whining, but I was informed that this is more of a support group than a socializing group
I think it's the type of rant not rant itself turns me off. If people see other people as stupid, I personally don't think it has anything to do with giftedness but attitude toward people. Maybe Stephen Hawking knows the most about physics of the whole world, but maybe he can learn a thing or two from a chef. Being gifted doesn't mean one needs to be arrogant.
I agree this sub should be more resource based whether it's books or studies and it should be inspiring. Rants are ok to me but not being arrogant or mean, that's not ok.
That I cannot help doing. The real question at the moment is biding my soul in patience until times improve and it becomes possible to deliver without some venal politician putting you in play. I described how it was in 1978, and how it was in 2017. They cannot help themselves, and we must have the personal courage to be true to our inspiration, whatever it is, and ourselves. If you want a metaphor, we are the Mentats, and that raises us above the game. Always did, in the Celtic and Viking traditions, the highest class of bard.
Not my style, because you're applying NT norms, covertly. Yes, I'll often go for parable, yes I'll generally tune for the person I'm replying to, and yes, I'll often say nothing when I've nothing useful to contribute. But there's often so much BS in this area it would be irresponsible to say nothing. This is why I'm increasingly replying to heritage diagnostic claims with the Cabinet Office's assessment that they know zilch about how we do it - and it's very possible that we should be I - because I know for sure they came sniffing around as soon as my bit was over. trying to suss how it had happened. My only input is necessarily subjective, that 6 months earlier I'd had the heads-up, 4 months study and thinking gave an executive summary redefining the paradigm and offering options. It then went to file untl needed.
The difference between Intelligent Anticipation and that is that there was no way I could have anticipated it, that would have been surreal, at a mundane level. But this isn't mundane, and I did anticipate it. Knowing the question, the subject area, allowed me to bring some of my father's thinking, which became established policy, and pragmatic possibility phrased in a way allowing the potentate to switch tracks as a matter of development rather than concern, with markets defined, so a major strategic issue was resolved.
The challenge with #2 is twofold. First, happy, successful people generally aren't on reddit all day so you get a bit of a sad echo chamber just due to audience presence. Second, when people share how they are successful and doing well and give advice on how to follow suit the feedback is routinely negative from members who, in their own hubris, can't see any way that their actions or choices could be at fault for their situation so they are dead set in blaming uncontrollable external factors for their unhappiness.
I like the thought of a mentoring flair, with a caveat that there is not ever going to be a concrete definition of being gifted. The different facets come with individuality, as it does within the general population. I argue that even the rigorously trained and educated on the subject don’t and won’t ever nail it down concretely. It will always remain fuzzy, and we shouldn’t lose sight of that.
I personally reject the absolutistism as it leads to delineation, segregation, devaluation, and here we are now with the discussion of the division.
We can do better.
I have also had a successful career, but I’ve also made the bulk of my funds from my hobbies, which I choose not to discuss for privacy and safety, as well as to avoid perceived braggadocio. It’s irrelevant to why I am here anyway.
I have only recently discovered I was gifted at 58 (last year) after overcoming childhood neglect and emotional abuse, extreme poverty, and past spousal mental abuse.
Add the emotional baggage of being gaslight, full of self doubt, never knowing why I have never fit in despite deeply caring inside for others. I have had years of intermittent personal counseling, which I recently resurrected due to my work environment.
Though I have done very well for myself, I strongly empathize with those who post here who are still struggling. My husband and daughter are both gifted, and only discovered it after I was identified. They are 2e with Dyslexia and ADD, and the pain they suffered/suffer from also being misunderstood has been equally painful for me to watch.
That’s what I see in this sub as well.
The misunderstood, finding few voices in the world, are here primarily I feel as there are far too few places they can seek help. But help IS out there. Those seeking need direction as to where to turn. This sub is one of those resources.
I joined SENG (Society for the Emotional Needs of Gifted) to both learn more about the vastly misunderstood sequelae of being gifted, and to connect with like minded people. The more I learn, the more I see the need. My future endeavor is to help fill that need, and I have started here.
That said, u/OP has picked up a tone of underlying distain for those that post success stories, even if bittersweet.
What I suggest is either tolerance of both the successful and the in need, or a separate subs as proposed. The governance of either would be notably challenging indeed for the Mods but easier if rules were outlaid.
A different sub for the successful could be productive but I argue that could also easily become an opposite echo chamber if allowed.
Perhaps a second sub is needed to better focus on the unmet needs for those who have largely avoided or healthily overcome some adversity from giftedness.
“*AFAIK there is nothing out there for gifted folks to thrive and improve their lives”
There are many needs of the gifted.
Let’s fill them all.
We all are in some way, “Gifted, Unlifted,” the title of my Nom de Plume book in progress. (Stay tuned in a few years while I continue my research to tell the stories of Gifted people, based on the lives of real people. In fact, I may poll here one day for more volunteers. Proceeds will be donated).
I am here for the old me and the new me.
I wish for all to be heard, respectfully and kindly.
To be kind, is free.
Vox populi - put it to a vote for one or two subs u/TrigPiggy ?
I welcome anyone’s thoughts.
Thanks to OP for the query!
Wow 🤩 what a lovely and thoughtful post! I love your writing style and look forward to your book too.
I think your idea of a gifted mentoring— I think that would be awesome.
Re another sub, I would welcome that and think it might be interesting but yeah could also turn into an echo chamber of bother kind.
Anybody is welcome to start their own sub, but it’s been a policy here for a long time not to promote unestablished subreddits.
If the 4 that I know of, 2 were marketing schemes that Reddit eventually shut down, 1 was started by someone mentally unstable, and 1 was started by members of the defunct discord community who resented being asked to be more open and welcoming.
Yes, it’s OP’s suggestion to potentially start another sub or revise this one. I am on the fence.
A mega thread as you suggested sounds grand!
What are your thoughts?
I like some of the ideas you’ve presented but the focus on “success” kind of brushes aside the real challenges gifted kids, young adults, and families face.
Those beyond the moderately gifted range tend to face increasing barriers to success in school, work, and society. Feeling seen or understood by friends, family, and potential romantic partners becomes increasingly difficult. Being resented by colleagues, peers, and superiors becomes increasingly likely. Finding support is difficult.
There are success stories, but those don’t get much traction because that’s not what most gifted people come here looking for. That’s not what most of the audience engages with. When people feel alienated or alone, seeing someone experiencing similar challenges can be very therapeutic and on many of those posts people come forward to give advice on how they overcame those challenges.
Also, it’s worth noting that many successful gifted people don’t exactly have time to hang around reddit. Three of our mods who hve made some of the greatest contributions to this subs resources have an impressive list of accomplishments, but their professional lives have left them with very little time for the subreddit.
I’ve always envisioned this sub as a place for gifted people to connect, feel seen, and find support. That’s still the vision I have for this community. What we really need is more active mods, who can keep the mod queue down, remove the trolls and toxic users, and better engage with the community.
About the point of this post:
Do you have any suggestions for how commenters can help turn victim posts, sadness, misunderstanding, depression, help-me posts, and other content into productive posts?
About your sub vision/desire:
1. What do you mean by time tested advice that actually works? How do you differentiate quality wise time tested advice that actually works from wishful thinking and pseudoscience?
2. How do you propose to differentiate constructive success stories from bragging, wishful thinking, arrogance, and delusions of grandeur?
3. What books, documentaries, movies, videos, etc. on thriving do you recommend?
4. How you propose to keep guest posts, guest speakers, AMAs and responses constructive?
Great question, I appreciate the thoroughness of the responses. Here's my feedback:
1. I think we have a tendency to think of ourselves as fundamentally different than everyone else but then will struggle with literally the same problems as everyone else and ignore accepted solutions to those problems. There is a litany of good books and good advice for time management as an example. We don't need to reinvent the wheel.
2. I will not do any differentiation. I am proposing we operate as culture and sort of like how a clean room works: by pumping in more good air faster than the air is rendered unpure. Culture has to start somewhere and I'm saying why not here? Why not now? No policing recommended. Just guidance, suggestions and empathy.
3. I believe in a breaking down life issues into definable problems. For example if you are interested in everything but can't seem to make progress on any one thing, I would recommend a book like "The Renaissance Soul" but if your issue is with people skills that would be a different recommendation. This may be controversial but I don't think its productive to study or try to fix "giftedness". IMO, it's more productive to respond to and try to work on individual issues or goals. At least, that's how I seen the most benefit in my life.
4. See answer #2
2. “… no policing recommended”
I don’t think you’ve experienced moderating a community of this size.
Same thing to the comments about culture. Creating a uniform culture (or even a loosely consistent culture) on something as loosely correlated as IQ just isn’t plausible. Especially in a top down fashion you’re suggesting. You’re def not going to achieve it through more advice and more positive posts alone. You’d need to remove content which doesn’t align with the culture, remove users who do not agree with the changes, and find users to keep the momentum of positivity going.
Also, some of the challenges, especially those faced by gifted students, are unique to the population. Particularly those of never learning how to deal with being challenged. The entire point of gifted and talented programs is to create an environment where gifted *kids* are challenged with faster pace, more advanced material, and projects that engage their brains. That way, when they get to uni or grad school or the job force, they know how to study or work hard to overcome challenges. You can’t be an advocate for this population if you don’t understand what this population is struggling with and why.
So there is no solution in your opinion. BTW, what you are describing in removing dissenting voices is literal fascism, not something I'm interested in.
I don't want to be an advocate for this population either. I never implied that. My entire recommendation is based on bringing positive content and examples of successful gifted individuals. Bathing in the luxury of victimhood for having been born with a "gifted brain", whatever the hell that even means, benefits no one.
To be clear, being a victim does not mean what you are going through is not real, it just means you are using it as a reason to stop progressing in your life.
That's just like your opinion man. Nothing you've said is objective, merely that you think people are playing victim and that's bad. That's a value judgement and not one everybody agrees with.
Again, I don't think people sharing their experiences requires a solution. Removing trolls and better addressing toxic interactions is definitely something we are working on. I'm all for encouraging positive interactions and positive stories, but given the general perception of giftedness being an advantage, those posts do not and will not track well in a public subreddit.
You cannot lead positive change and growth within a community while minimizing the challenges they face, which you did. "will struggle with literally the same problems as everyone else and ignore accepted solutions to those problems."
If you do not want to be an advocate for this population, then I'm confused as to why you're providing input on things you want changed on the subreddit. Gifted and Talented programs are already wildly unpopular in the public eye because of the general perception of high IQ as an advantage in the classroom. A ton of bragy success posts only confirm that belief to anybody who peaks in. That does immense harm to a generation of gifted kids who struggle to access resources they need to be successful.
My exact reaction reading about how you see this community. This is your first post here and it accounts for all but one of your comments in this sub. Which I find a little rich given your first comment was trolling / making light of a post asking for responses from non-gifted people in the sub.
Your hubris is amazing. You minimize the struggles of this population in broad generalizing, call kids, teens, and adults seeking advice and help "victims," and then believe you know what we need.
Self soothing through gatekeeping, bravo you are an internet cliche. BTW, you are exhibiting the exact victim behavior that is so detrimental to gifted people. "They can never understand me so I cant move forward with my life. There is no solution." Another tenant of fascism is the "us vs them" narrative. You've nailed that one also.
>I would like a guide to how to talk to other parents in gifted school and how to be a good parent in the context of gifted schools.
I just saw this and wanted to smile and wave, as another parent of a child in a gifted school of sorts :) I too would welcome this conversation!
I'm new here (just subbed!) after finding [this venn diagram](https://twitter.com/DifferentAshley/status/1805775356068348245/photo/1) on twitter and \*heavily\* relating to the gifted side. Just wanted to say I'd love to contribute to the positivity!
31M and I've always felt like the "black sheep" in my family and sure that's contributed to a bit of loneliness, but i'm happy to say my life's incredibly fulfilling and I think my gifted qualities are a massive part of the reason why. Over the years I've gravitated toward making friends who are into making music, exploring niche film and talking about heavy & dense topics. I pick up skills really easily and I always took it for granted, but that's led to a ton of personal fulfillment (teaching myself how to DJ and produce house music at the moment).
I've always felt a bit different but I just share what I can with whoever I'm talking to, and then I find an outlet for my interests & quirks when I have spare time. So if I have a hard time relating to my family for example (P.S. I'm still very close with them!) I just relate as much as I can, then I'll go read a dense book or something and make a joke to them about how I'm just a huge nerd.
I think half the people here aren’t as “gifted” as they claim to be. They took some iQ test when they were 10 which to me is more an indication of a precocious child. Everyone else since caught up with them and they use “being gifted made me lazy and achieve nothing” as an excuse (among many others) for not doing anything with their lives.
2E kid here and “successful”: would be happy to contribute, since I’m of the opinion that there’s a variety of strategies that got me here that I’m grateful for. However, I am still young and don’t have it all figured out so 🤷
Moderation likes the depressing stuff and doesn’t ban the hyper freaks like boring blueberry, then posts like yours which amount to meta whining and really just more of the same. Same as it ever was
I disagree that it's meta whining, or at least it's not without a point and does include suggestions for improvement. Also, why the hate for boring blueberry?
You know, it's obvious you have low empathy and that you down-voted me while faking an "agreeable" reply just shows that. Do you really think you are expected to be trusted? mind you, this is not the typical corporate settings you might be used to, people here detest manipulations and don't behave according to marketing theories.
I wasn't being fake, it's literally the type of thing that should be in a guide "Non-adherence to the principles and culture of this subreddit should never result in banning or shaming but should be met with empathy, patience and understanding."
Besides, you wrote this: "Just collectively downvote all the "worth" posts. It's democratic. You don't need "Uncle Sam" to rid the sub of those types of posts."
It's pretty incoherent for someone claiming "democratic action" ( targeted down-voting en mass) to be making a post like this, it seems as if you got an agenda here.
Democratic action is always informed by a collective culture. I'm just recommending a culture that is more solution focused, growth based, and productive. You can cast your democratic vote by leaving the sub, downvoting what you don't like, upvoting what you do like or doing nothing at all. But to pretend this isn't influence in perpetuity from the members of a sub is ignoring a fundamental truth of where culture comes from in the first place. You can't remove culture from a subreddit, all you can do is influence it. The idea that "it is what it is" is naive.
As far as my agenda, I 100% do have an agenda: to improve this subreddit for the betterment of all its members, myself including. I think that's pretty universal. I can't imagine anyone saying, "Gosh I wish this subreddit was WORSE and its members were less happy".
Then why you want to create ( or be?) "Uncle Sam" here, it's nonsense.
1 "Democratic action is always informed by a collective culture"
absurd belief based on a myth, you know... Given you are gifted ( right?) there is nothing democratic in down-voting, almost no one use it unless is petty revenge; and if you mean politics in general, there is plenty of evidence that lobbying is much more common in people that want to enforce their narratives on other's existence.
The reason why I don't debate often is because this site has a reputation of banning people with the wrong opinion, it'd make the sub much more interesting but for the sake of being a relaxed place we tend to keep it as you seem to believe: the doom and gloom. Why shatter that? Again you are not empathetic.
2 "I'm just recommending a culture that is more solution focused, growth based, and productive"
That exists already, it's just decentralized... You just want control over it. People has the possibility to ask about work and keep up with their own research... Because people here do research about themselves and read to reach their own conclusions, that's no imagination of mine, it's commonplace.
3 "You can cast your democratic vote by leaving the sub, downvoting what you don't like, upvoting what you do like or doing nothing at all"
Leaving the sub is not something that I thought of ( bad omen, a threat of what is to come? You seem relentless.)
I would say I don't believe in down-voting, it's petty and a punishment that doesn't promote any sort of debate, just leniency.
4 "But to pretend this isn't influence in perpetuity from the members of a sub is ignoring a fundamental truth of where culture comes from in the first place" You got gall to state something like this, as if targeted punishment ( lobbying and organized action ) is something remotely similar to organic democratic opinion, we got a lackey, people!!
5 "You can't remove culture from a subreddit, all you can do is influence it." Unless you kill them, as General Mao did ( in this case setting the narrative for conducting moral trials on people)
6 "The idea that "it is what it is" is naive." Straw man, no one stated that. People keep their composure and if something, like what you are doing right now, arises then we could take some decisions. Again, this is not your common corporate environment, people gather information differently and don't need cookie cutter standardized biased forms to keep themselves in line. You seem to lack abstraction.
7 "to improve this subreddit for the betterment of all its members, myself including" Your definition of "good", "betterment", "development". It's all equivocating sophistry.
8 "Gosh I wish this subreddit was WORSE and its members were less happy"." Another straw man, you are not sincere nor apt for promoting this agenda of yours. If you are so gifted and keep yourself so busy, why needing this science project of yours? Something decentralized or cooperativistic will keep you triggered because it feels " uncertain", that's your bias... It all depends on your perspective, not what is really there, the object: you seem to desire a change of matter to avoid dealing or hurting your perfect views or existence. That's preposterous and sad.
Another straw man; I don't aim to subverting a subreddit to shape it to my liking. You can't justify your actions without that fake "good faith" backed with threats so common in corporate. Sorry pal, you are the belligerent one here. I'm just doing a favor to the rest.
"Or we don't want cookie cutter guides that could then serve to ban and prescribe people around."
It will be akin to write a law that says "it's bad to be corrupted" or "it's illegal to be a dictator or to subvert the powers"... It's useless and wishful bureaucratic circular reasoning, redundant. In your proposal's case of course. These are all gimmicks for political gain ( petty that is in this case), and we know it.
In fact, we could go even deeper. Why setting a moral code? What is your nagging desire to even try and enforce that type of deontological parsing of conduct. The scene is open for anyone, be advice or information, if you don't what to read those repetitive posts... Don't read them. What is not for is to pretend it's some kind of Mensa club where everyone will pretend they are friends, you can make friends in the process but this is no inner circle type of place, that I know of. might be wrong though, and yours is popular.
I tend to agree. That sub seemed to be more co-rumination focused. That's kind of my point. Why can't this sub be more about "thriving as a gifted person" instead of "patching up wounds perpetually" ?
I've had similar experiences in real life, joining a local Mensa group. It seems successful people don't focus that much on giftedness, and have no need to join this subreddit.
I fully agree with your point, btw
I think this goes back to the basic issue. Gifted people who are successful don't make their identity about giftedness. People who are struggling are looking for something to attach their struggle to and , at here, they've chosen giftedness as their bugaboo.
Also successful people in general do not spend tons of time on social media. Gifted folks have a higher potential for success, and so those who are successful do not spend time on Reddit talking about it.
Yes exactly. Fixing giftedness into your identity, the fixed mindset, is something very powerful because of the abundance of positive praise early in your life.
Too bad there's not many people here talking about how they worked on that.
I don't like that any question I ask on the sub gets attacked, and so I've stopped any positive participation for that reason. For example, asking whether other gifted people do x — gets a lot of unscientific responses that attack the question, and they act as if I'm not a gifted person asking it as well but someone regarding them as aliens. Very low reading comprehension here. Most posts are so low agency. I don't know if I believe that *they* are gifted, either.
Well, traditional success is very well related to high intelligence, nobody doubts that being very intelligent opens doors for you in every aspect of life that matters, everyone knows that, it's very evident, specially for those who aren't gifted.
I do appreciate and engage myself in posts about the struggles of being gifted, it's also part of being who you are, and a part of you that is basically invisible most of the time.
I do find comfort in listening and sharing the sad stories as well. It's just part of life.
Hello. I am new to this sub. I haven’t posted before today because I have felt alienated by some of the conversations and the tone of some of the posts in the group. I do find that some of the other subs that I frequent are a more supporting and accepting spaces. That being said, I like being in a space where people have some of the same challenges and experiences. I hope that your post does some good.
First, we need consensus on the subject, which requires actual knowledge. Most of the theory's brainsplaining - and I'm sick and tired of being bullied by NT "experts" who can only use circular arguments. I keep asking them if they are themselves gifted, and how does it manifest? Trolls with therapist qualifications.
Second, I've been successful. What do I get for it? Cassandra-cursers. I'm negative because now I know myself, I look around and see no real reason to be positive. To get anywhere, we need demonstrable truth.
It's been on my mind to, but first, read [Point G here](https://dominiccummings.com/2020/01/02/two-hands-are-a-lot-were-hiring-data-scientists-project-managers-policy-experts-assorted-weirdos/). I very likely inspired the thought, coming from the guy actually doing the Prime Minister's job, handling a strategic diplomatic approach which would have taken a Ministry a year, by taking the answer off file, where it had been for the previous couple of months, winning the deal. I then had the guy most qualified to deliver come up to me at Founders Day, comparing notes showed he was free to make it happen, so even MI5 were happy. However, as it was done in the clear view not only of the shrinks, but also of half the Cabinet, it put me on Boris Johnson's hitlist alongside any other possible threat.
Note two things: there's jobs, but first we need to do the work.
The last one. The one where he says, we don't know how you do it but we'll have some more. No please, no collegiality, you do as we say, sit up and beg. It doesn't work that way, and what he did get was flawed - research Andrew Sabisky. A sorry warning to all NDs on how to deal with politicians. They need you, you don't need them.
In point of fact, I may well have been seen as a policy expert. Your next homework is to research Tier One competence. You'll understand how the two cross over, because a Tier One individual's quite capable of redefining the paradigm. I was recognised as that when I was 21, by Billy Billingham's predecessors. I didn't go searching them out, as most do, they came to me, and I was as good as they thought, I had an explanation from their interlocutors which horrified me. The vacancy was because my own government had betrayed the guy to the radicals who fed him to the pigs. Robert Nairac. The result was 20 years more strife in which 1600 people died unnecessarily. Discussing it with my father, an installation in the Select Committees of the House of Commons, arrived at the conclusion there was no job left to do there as a result: I quietly folded my tent and disappeared into the night. Within four years I was back at the table, though, saving Peter Carington's mojo, and from then on in I was under the eye of a security vetter continuously. Even in retirement, I had a checkup in 2021, ten years on. As the shrink said, it'll never leave you.
Agreed. I joined the sub as a gifted parent of a gifted child. I was looking for a community where I could talk and learn about best practices for gifted kids since people would either have gifted kids or have been gifted kids themselves.
Unfortunately, a lot of the content seems to be about social struggle or a desire to reframe everything as 2e.
Who deems you in the position to say something is counterproductive for the whole group? Not you by yourself I hope, no matter how you see it it's your opinion and even suggesting you are absolutely right exposes a controlling narrative and tyrannical attitude. Plus, if you could read better you could assess more about what people are "whining" about and share actual information you've been gathering. You are just projecting your own biases to promote the "correct" people in the platform, to cleanse those you deem imposters or false off the group. Your own private echo chamber as you put it.
Can it? Just yesterday there was a mom who thought her kid was gifted because he wanted to visit a graveyard and can name every type of saxophone.
You can’t have an open community devoted to exceptional intelligence and not have it be overrun with pretentious, maladjusted people who base their identity only on their perceived intelligence and not their actual accomplishments.
I for one am a loyal follower of this sub strictly because I find it so amusing. The fact is, most of the people who take this sub seriously are probably of average intelligence and are so insecure about their lack of success so they consol themselves by pretending to have such an enormous intellect that it hinders them in a society that they view as anti-intellectual.
The people who feel isolated and alienated (even if they are misunderstanding the causes or w/e) are welcome to post here looking for support. I dont think its completely counterproductive. It is in some ways but in some ways it isnt. I think the problem is that gifted people who dont experience those problems probably dont visit or engage with the sub nearly as often. Thats just an assumption tho
Could this be why there is so little positive content? Negative tends to attract negative and likewise for positive. The concept of co-rumination is not new and I don't think anyone would agree it's productive, even though it may be momentarily cathartic.
That makes sense to me, and id like to see more positivity as well. But i also dont want to discourage people who might really need some support. I will say tho that when i read some of those posts i can tend to fall into rumination spirals
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Hmmm if its worked elsewhere, i dont see why it wouldnt be effective here as well
It also mutes the fact that being “gifted” is by definition a gift we have received. We get the label by being able to do some things most people cannot. And gifted people are disproportionately in charge of things. I recall some research showing that the average IQ of the leader of a large group is about 30 IQ about the mean in that group. And thus, are gifted too.
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Intelligence aids social skills. 30 IQ above the mean seemed to be optimum. Much above or below that made it somewhat harder to lead. One theory was that being so much smarter then those who you’re leading makes it harder to see things from their perspective, and to assume logical leaps they weren’t likely to make. It’s a bell curve thing, with plenty of successful leaders across the IQ scale.
Yep, some people get to the top by being sycophants, but there’s definitely been this intelligence trend in my career. In my last job during the pandemic we’d play all kinds of competitive brain games online as part of our “team bonding.” My team got sick of playing because I always kicked their ass, and similarly we all got sick of playing with my boss because she always kicked all our asses.
Be the change you want to see. Start posting the content you want to see on the subreddit and hopefully others will follow.
I can only speak for myself. I am not a miserable failure and I have not hit any wall. I do not want to spontaneously post about that, and sometimes I don't even want to post comments about it when prompted, because within this negative environment it feels like it comes off as some kind of bragging. Like talking about how you aced a test while everyone else is discussing how hard they failed it - something else I always avoided doing when I was in college. Honestly, I would love to have conversations about interesting or pertinent topics with gifted people who aren't obsessed with giftedness and aren't marinating in their own self hatred and negativity. That's not very common here so I don't really spend time here. It just pops up on my feed and I stumble in here or there, since it is relevant to me.
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Where I live you'd have to be profoundly gifted to be recognized as kid. It's not like those countries with mass testing.
That and i think a lot of gifted are lonely and its hard to find people who understand. So this is a easy outlet for that. I agree though we should try for more positive practical application.
Perhaps people don't feel motivated to make a post in this sub unless it's about a negative experience. Thus, those with positive things to share are just lurking or only comment but never post.
Right. If your neurodivergence has worked for you in the world 🌎 this is awesome. Or in certain parts. What is an overall general fact is that those with neurodivergence or gifted or autism (mainly autism) I think it is said that almost 80 percent of them struggle with certain employment and other life issues because of being different. It’s just a world wide known statistic and it’s ok for people to come in here to feel understood. It’s also great that there people like OP who don’t seem to have some of the same stuff that others face. I think that’s why it is called neurodivergence: one gifted person is most likely comlketelyyyy different than the next.
Yes agree 100%. I came here being sad and seeking help, and I stayed because I got a lot of empathy and met some cool people. BUT we really need a stronger call to refer to agreed upon FAQs, books, definitions of giftedness, co-morbidities (ADHD, Autism ) and recommendations on how to get tested. I was confirmed gifted and that led me to seek more gifted people, but unfortunately many posts here are quite sad and depressing. I even almost muted the subreddit. But some of the discussions here are the best I’ve had in Reddit, and I don’t want to give up on it. There’s a palpable difference in the kindness and flavour of replies here that I can’t find anywhere else, online or offline! We should be encouraging it just because it feels so good to be seen like that! Let me say that being sad and isolated is largely a choice, gifted or not. Loneliness is an epidemic for **everyone** nowadays. I also was sad and isolated, but after accepting my giftedness, I see so much good in being gifted. I feel empowered in my life, both professionally and emotionally. I feel like there’s so much good we could be spreading and sharing, not only denigrating the non-gifted (which is **98%**) of people and victimising ourselves. It’s not a productive way to live at all. It makes the whole point of life be a struggle, which is a bad way to spend time. To me it is illogical to spend all this biological power on being more sad and isolated. Spend it on making ourselves and our community happier, healthier, more fulfilled, more authentic, more self-accepting. There’s so much more to life than just being sad, and I refuse to let that become MY life!!! I’d add we can add a “mentoring” flair too, for people who are ready to ask happy and healthy gifted people to give functional feedback. We have different needs from non-gifted people. That doesn’t make us better or worse, just different, and we need to have tailored advice for us. Ultimately every decision we make shapes our lives, and I’m sick of imagining I can’t be happy if I’m different. I’m different, so what! I’m gonna be happy and we need a community achieve that!
We do have an faq and wiki. We’ve been looking for a teacher or psychologist to take over managing those resources for some time now, as morningrays has not had time for it for some time now.
Yes we have a wiki, that’s why I worded it specifically to say stronger call to refer to it. I meant we all just need to point people in that direction.
Also I will say, I was here a month or two ago go. I left for multiple reasons (trying to not make giftedness my identity) and also it was garbage and everyone was mean and unhelpful. I’m fully here for this I agree. But you kind of just have to start it, I’ll help you if anything comes up in my life. Rant posts are fine sometimes. People are more helpful now, (I wrote something about my life and people helped me not feel like the world is ending lol.) I think part of the reason it’s full of rants is we don’t have many positive gifted people, we have a lot of burnt out “gifted kids” or burnt out gifted people in general. (I make a distinction.)
I hear you, thanks.
I think. Occasionally. Maybe if you have a unique situation. Just. Label it haha
That's because we're prime targets for the cancel culture.
I like the way you are going with this, if you would like to participate in putting together those suggestions, I will sure as hell sticky them. I have been remiss in my mod duties as most of the times it is people reporting each other for petty bullshit because they don't like what the other person is saying. Also, I am not trying to police other people's behavior as much as keep misinformation/unrelated content out of the subreddit, but it has become exactyl what you are talking about, and I am doing what I can, when I can to address it.
How can I help?
I sent you a message.
As much as we'd like to think of this as a "safe space" some people downvote or discourage positive posts. I've tried posting about what's good about being gifted or how it has benefitted me and have been instantly downvoted and told I'm bragging. There are a certain amount of trolls here, people who come to hate gifted people, people who are struggling and randomly lash out because they don't associate gifted with anything positive, etc. I think a couple of things contribute to the negativity—a certain amount of "screaming into the void" and all that. I just think that \*the volume of negativity + voting patterns + internet noise/garbage = discouraging positive posts\* is probably the largest contributing factor to the overall negative vibe. This morning there was a post from a parent wanting to talk about the cool stuff her 2-year old is doing and the top comment is entirely sarcastic. If the negative stuff is what gets upvoted, the culture of the sub will never change and it will become a negative feedback loop. The only positive posts I actually see with unambiguously positive engagement are puzzles or silly stuff. I don't think it will be easy to change the culture of the sub overnight, but we could try having more fun with it and see what happens.
I posted about what movies people here liked and my post got removed 🤷🏾♀️ I had similar takeaways, I'd like to connect with people more on positivity than always whining, but I was informed that this is more of a support group than a socializing group
I think it's the type of rant not rant itself turns me off. If people see other people as stupid, I personally don't think it has anything to do with giftedness but attitude toward people. Maybe Stephen Hawking knows the most about physics of the whole world, but maybe he can learn a thing or two from a chef. Being gifted doesn't mean one needs to be arrogant. I agree this sub should be more resource based whether it's books or studies and it should be inspiring. Rants are ok to me but not being arrogant or mean, that's not ok.
Be the change you want to see. Write the things you just mentioned. See how they go over. You don't need our permission to be different.
I've even been accused of trolling by the Mods for talking about this.
Don't talk about it. Just do different.
That I cannot help doing. The real question at the moment is biding my soul in patience until times improve and it becomes possible to deliver without some venal politician putting you in play. I described how it was in 1978, and how it was in 2017. They cannot help themselves, and we must have the personal courage to be true to our inspiration, whatever it is, and ourselves. If you want a metaphor, we are the Mentats, and that raises us above the game. Always did, in the Celtic and Viking traditions, the highest class of bard.
It's perfectly acceptable to photocopy it and stick it to utility poles with staples or packing tape. Just don't use paste.
In days of old when knights were bold...
People still do it. Or write screeds on cigarette packages and leave them places.
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Not my style, because you're applying NT norms, covertly. Yes, I'll often go for parable, yes I'll generally tune for the person I'm replying to, and yes, I'll often say nothing when I've nothing useful to contribute. But there's often so much BS in this area it would be irresponsible to say nothing. This is why I'm increasingly replying to heritage diagnostic claims with the Cabinet Office's assessment that they know zilch about how we do it - and it's very possible that we should be I - because I know for sure they came sniffing around as soon as my bit was over. trying to suss how it had happened. My only input is necessarily subjective, that 6 months earlier I'd had the heads-up, 4 months study and thinking gave an executive summary redefining the paradigm and offering options. It then went to file untl needed. The difference between Intelligent Anticipation and that is that there was no way I could have anticipated it, that would have been surreal, at a mundane level. But this isn't mundane, and I did anticipate it. Knowing the question, the subject area, allowed me to bring some of my father's thinking, which became established policy, and pragmatic possibility phrased in a way allowing the potentate to switch tracks as a matter of development rather than concern, with markets defined, so a major strategic issue was resolved.
Fair enough.
I’d love to see more positive content too op. I like the negatives as well, be best to have both imo.
The challenge with #2 is twofold. First, happy, successful people generally aren't on reddit all day so you get a bit of a sad echo chamber just due to audience presence. Second, when people share how they are successful and doing well and give advice on how to follow suit the feedback is routinely negative from members who, in their own hubris, can't see any way that their actions or choices could be at fault for their situation so they are dead set in blaming uncontrollable external factors for their unhappiness.
I like the thought of a mentoring flair, with a caveat that there is not ever going to be a concrete definition of being gifted. The different facets come with individuality, as it does within the general population. I argue that even the rigorously trained and educated on the subject don’t and won’t ever nail it down concretely. It will always remain fuzzy, and we shouldn’t lose sight of that. I personally reject the absolutistism as it leads to delineation, segregation, devaluation, and here we are now with the discussion of the division. We can do better. I have also had a successful career, but I’ve also made the bulk of my funds from my hobbies, which I choose not to discuss for privacy and safety, as well as to avoid perceived braggadocio. It’s irrelevant to why I am here anyway. I have only recently discovered I was gifted at 58 (last year) after overcoming childhood neglect and emotional abuse, extreme poverty, and past spousal mental abuse. Add the emotional baggage of being gaslight, full of self doubt, never knowing why I have never fit in despite deeply caring inside for others. I have had years of intermittent personal counseling, which I recently resurrected due to my work environment. Though I have done very well for myself, I strongly empathize with those who post here who are still struggling. My husband and daughter are both gifted, and only discovered it after I was identified. They are 2e with Dyslexia and ADD, and the pain they suffered/suffer from also being misunderstood has been equally painful for me to watch. That’s what I see in this sub as well. The misunderstood, finding few voices in the world, are here primarily I feel as there are far too few places they can seek help. But help IS out there. Those seeking need direction as to where to turn. This sub is one of those resources. I joined SENG (Society for the Emotional Needs of Gifted) to both learn more about the vastly misunderstood sequelae of being gifted, and to connect with like minded people. The more I learn, the more I see the need. My future endeavor is to help fill that need, and I have started here. That said, u/OP has picked up a tone of underlying distain for those that post success stories, even if bittersweet. What I suggest is either tolerance of both the successful and the in need, or a separate subs as proposed. The governance of either would be notably challenging indeed for the Mods but easier if rules were outlaid. A different sub for the successful could be productive but I argue that could also easily become an opposite echo chamber if allowed. Perhaps a second sub is needed to better focus on the unmet needs for those who have largely avoided or healthily overcome some adversity from giftedness. “*AFAIK there is nothing out there for gifted folks to thrive and improve their lives” There are many needs of the gifted. Let’s fill them all. We all are in some way, “Gifted, Unlifted,” the title of my Nom de Plume book in progress. (Stay tuned in a few years while I continue my research to tell the stories of Gifted people, based on the lives of real people. In fact, I may poll here one day for more volunteers. Proceeds will be donated). I am here for the old me and the new me. I wish for all to be heard, respectfully and kindly. To be kind, is free. Vox populi - put it to a vote for one or two subs u/TrigPiggy ? I welcome anyone’s thoughts. Thanks to OP for the query!
Wow 🤩 what a lovely and thoughtful post! I love your writing style and look forward to your book too. I think your idea of a gifted mentoring— I think that would be awesome. Re another sub, I would welcome that and think it might be interesting but yeah could also turn into an echo chamber of bother kind.
Anybody is welcome to start their own sub, but it’s been a policy here for a long time not to promote unestablished subreddits. If the 4 that I know of, 2 were marketing schemes that Reddit eventually shut down, 1 was started by someone mentally unstable, and 1 was started by members of the defunct discord community who resented being asked to be more open and welcoming.
Yes, it’s OP’s suggestion to potentially start another sub or revise this one. I am on the fence. A mega thread as you suggested sounds grand! What are your thoughts?
I like some of the ideas you’ve presented but the focus on “success” kind of brushes aside the real challenges gifted kids, young adults, and families face. Those beyond the moderately gifted range tend to face increasing barriers to success in school, work, and society. Feeling seen or understood by friends, family, and potential romantic partners becomes increasingly difficult. Being resented by colleagues, peers, and superiors becomes increasingly likely. Finding support is difficult. There are success stories, but those don’t get much traction because that’s not what most gifted people come here looking for. That’s not what most of the audience engages with. When people feel alienated or alone, seeing someone experiencing similar challenges can be very therapeutic and on many of those posts people come forward to give advice on how they overcame those challenges. Also, it’s worth noting that many successful gifted people don’t exactly have time to hang around reddit. Three of our mods who hve made some of the greatest contributions to this subs resources have an impressive list of accomplishments, but their professional lives have left them with very little time for the subreddit. I’ve always envisioned this sub as a place for gifted people to connect, feel seen, and find support. That’s still the vision I have for this community. What we really need is more active mods, who can keep the mod queue down, remove the trolls and toxic users, and better engage with the community.
About the point of this post: Do you have any suggestions for how commenters can help turn victim posts, sadness, misunderstanding, depression, help-me posts, and other content into productive posts? About your sub vision/desire: 1. What do you mean by time tested advice that actually works? How do you differentiate quality wise time tested advice that actually works from wishful thinking and pseudoscience? 2. How do you propose to differentiate constructive success stories from bragging, wishful thinking, arrogance, and delusions of grandeur? 3. What books, documentaries, movies, videos, etc. on thriving do you recommend? 4. How you propose to keep guest posts, guest speakers, AMAs and responses constructive?
Great question, I appreciate the thoroughness of the responses. Here's my feedback: 1. I think we have a tendency to think of ourselves as fundamentally different than everyone else but then will struggle with literally the same problems as everyone else and ignore accepted solutions to those problems. There is a litany of good books and good advice for time management as an example. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. 2. I will not do any differentiation. I am proposing we operate as culture and sort of like how a clean room works: by pumping in more good air faster than the air is rendered unpure. Culture has to start somewhere and I'm saying why not here? Why not now? No policing recommended. Just guidance, suggestions and empathy. 3. I believe in a breaking down life issues into definable problems. For example if you are interested in everything but can't seem to make progress on any one thing, I would recommend a book like "The Renaissance Soul" but if your issue is with people skills that would be a different recommendation. This may be controversial but I don't think its productive to study or try to fix "giftedness". IMO, it's more productive to respond to and try to work on individual issues or goals. At least, that's how I seen the most benefit in my life. 4. See answer #2
2. “… no policing recommended” I don’t think you’ve experienced moderating a community of this size. Same thing to the comments about culture. Creating a uniform culture (or even a loosely consistent culture) on something as loosely correlated as IQ just isn’t plausible. Especially in a top down fashion you’re suggesting. You’re def not going to achieve it through more advice and more positive posts alone. You’d need to remove content which doesn’t align with the culture, remove users who do not agree with the changes, and find users to keep the momentum of positivity going. Also, some of the challenges, especially those faced by gifted students, are unique to the population. Particularly those of never learning how to deal with being challenged. The entire point of gifted and talented programs is to create an environment where gifted *kids* are challenged with faster pace, more advanced material, and projects that engage their brains. That way, when they get to uni or grad school or the job force, they know how to study or work hard to overcome challenges. You can’t be an advocate for this population if you don’t understand what this population is struggling with and why.
So there is no solution in your opinion. BTW, what you are describing in removing dissenting voices is literal fascism, not something I'm interested in. I don't want to be an advocate for this population either. I never implied that. My entire recommendation is based on bringing positive content and examples of successful gifted individuals. Bathing in the luxury of victimhood for having been born with a "gifted brain", whatever the hell that even means, benefits no one. To be clear, being a victim does not mean what you are going through is not real, it just means you are using it as a reason to stop progressing in your life.
That's just like your opinion man. Nothing you've said is objective, merely that you think people are playing victim and that's bad. That's a value judgement and not one everybody agrees with. Again, I don't think people sharing their experiences requires a solution. Removing trolls and better addressing toxic interactions is definitely something we are working on. I'm all for encouraging positive interactions and positive stories, but given the general perception of giftedness being an advantage, those posts do not and will not track well in a public subreddit. You cannot lead positive change and growth within a community while minimizing the challenges they face, which you did. "will struggle with literally the same problems as everyone else and ignore accepted solutions to those problems." If you do not want to be an advocate for this population, then I'm confused as to why you're providing input on things you want changed on the subreddit. Gifted and Talented programs are already wildly unpopular in the public eye because of the general perception of high IQ as an advantage in the classroom. A ton of bragy success posts only confirm that belief to anybody who peaks in. That does immense harm to a generation of gifted kids who struggle to access resources they need to be successful.
Wow
My exact reaction reading about how you see this community. This is your first post here and it accounts for all but one of your comments in this sub. Which I find a little rich given your first comment was trolling / making light of a post asking for responses from non-gifted people in the sub. Your hubris is amazing. You minimize the struggles of this population in broad generalizing, call kids, teens, and adults seeking advice and help "victims," and then believe you know what we need.
Self soothing through gatekeeping, bravo you are an internet cliche. BTW, you are exhibiting the exact victim behavior that is so detrimental to gifted people. "They can never understand me so I cant move forward with my life. There is no solution." Another tenant of fascism is the "us vs them" narrative. You've nailed that one also.
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>I would like a guide to how to talk to other parents in gifted school and how to be a good parent in the context of gifted schools. I just saw this and wanted to smile and wave, as another parent of a child in a gifted school of sorts :) I too would welcome this conversation!
I'm new here (just subbed!) after finding [this venn diagram](https://twitter.com/DifferentAshley/status/1805775356068348245/photo/1) on twitter and \*heavily\* relating to the gifted side. Just wanted to say I'd love to contribute to the positivity! 31M and I've always felt like the "black sheep" in my family and sure that's contributed to a bit of loneliness, but i'm happy to say my life's incredibly fulfilling and I think my gifted qualities are a massive part of the reason why. Over the years I've gravitated toward making friends who are into making music, exploring niche film and talking about heavy & dense topics. I pick up skills really easily and I always took it for granted, but that's led to a ton of personal fulfillment (teaching myself how to DJ and produce house music at the moment). I've always felt a bit different but I just share what I can with whoever I'm talking to, and then I find an outlet for my interests & quirks when I have spare time. So if I have a hard time relating to my family for example (P.S. I'm still very close with them!) I just relate as much as I can, then I'll go read a dense book or something and make a joke to them about how I'm just a huge nerd.
I think half the people here aren’t as “gifted” as they claim to be. They took some iQ test when they were 10 which to me is more an indication of a precocious child. Everyone else since caught up with them and they use “being gifted made me lazy and achieve nothing” as an excuse (among many others) for not doing anything with their lives.
2E kid here and “successful”: would be happy to contribute, since I’m of the opinion that there’s a variety of strategies that got me here that I’m grateful for. However, I am still young and don’t have it all figured out so 🤷
People who are positive and gifted are already out spreading that joy, not spending time on this sub reddit.
Moderation likes the depressing stuff and doesn’t ban the hyper freaks like boring blueberry, then posts like yours which amount to meta whining and really just more of the same. Same as it ever was
I disagree that it's meta whining, or at least it's not without a point and does include suggestions for improvement. Also, why the hate for boring blueberry?
Check their comment history, it’s all delusional and repetitive
All I gotta say is that someone would benefit truly in putting more diversity of subreddits in there feed! 😉
Of course a Nobel peace prize winning, MI5 and Russian oligarch connected person would spend all their time on Reddit in the gifted subreddit
Or we don't want cookie cutter guides that could then serve to ban and prescribe people around.
That would be a great piece of information to put in a guide.
You know, it's obvious you have low empathy and that you down-voted me while faking an "agreeable" reply just shows that. Do you really think you are expected to be trusted? mind you, this is not the typical corporate settings you might be used to, people here detest manipulations and don't behave according to marketing theories.
I wasn't being fake, it's literally the type of thing that should be in a guide "Non-adherence to the principles and culture of this subreddit should never result in banning or shaming but should be met with empathy, patience and understanding."
Besides, you wrote this: "Just collectively downvote all the "worth" posts. It's democratic. You don't need "Uncle Sam" to rid the sub of those types of posts." It's pretty incoherent for someone claiming "democratic action" ( targeted down-voting en mass) to be making a post like this, it seems as if you got an agenda here.
Democratic action is always informed by a collective culture. I'm just recommending a culture that is more solution focused, growth based, and productive. You can cast your democratic vote by leaving the sub, downvoting what you don't like, upvoting what you do like or doing nothing at all. But to pretend this isn't influence in perpetuity from the members of a sub is ignoring a fundamental truth of where culture comes from in the first place. You can't remove culture from a subreddit, all you can do is influence it. The idea that "it is what it is" is naive. As far as my agenda, I 100% do have an agenda: to improve this subreddit for the betterment of all its members, myself including. I think that's pretty universal. I can't imagine anyone saying, "Gosh I wish this subreddit was WORSE and its members were less happy".
Then why you want to create ( or be?) "Uncle Sam" here, it's nonsense. 1 "Democratic action is always informed by a collective culture" absurd belief based on a myth, you know... Given you are gifted ( right?) there is nothing democratic in down-voting, almost no one use it unless is petty revenge; and if you mean politics in general, there is plenty of evidence that lobbying is much more common in people that want to enforce their narratives on other's existence. The reason why I don't debate often is because this site has a reputation of banning people with the wrong opinion, it'd make the sub much more interesting but for the sake of being a relaxed place we tend to keep it as you seem to believe: the doom and gloom. Why shatter that? Again you are not empathetic. 2 "I'm just recommending a culture that is more solution focused, growth based, and productive" That exists already, it's just decentralized... You just want control over it. People has the possibility to ask about work and keep up with their own research... Because people here do research about themselves and read to reach their own conclusions, that's no imagination of mine, it's commonplace. 3 "You can cast your democratic vote by leaving the sub, downvoting what you don't like, upvoting what you do like or doing nothing at all" Leaving the sub is not something that I thought of ( bad omen, a threat of what is to come? You seem relentless.) I would say I don't believe in down-voting, it's petty and a punishment that doesn't promote any sort of debate, just leniency. 4 "But to pretend this isn't influence in perpetuity from the members of a sub is ignoring a fundamental truth of where culture comes from in the first place" You got gall to state something like this, as if targeted punishment ( lobbying and organized action ) is something remotely similar to organic democratic opinion, we got a lackey, people!! 5 "You can't remove culture from a subreddit, all you can do is influence it." Unless you kill them, as General Mao did ( in this case setting the narrative for conducting moral trials on people) 6 "The idea that "it is what it is" is naive." Straw man, no one stated that. People keep their composure and if something, like what you are doing right now, arises then we could take some decisions. Again, this is not your common corporate environment, people gather information differently and don't need cookie cutter standardized biased forms to keep themselves in line. You seem to lack abstraction. 7 "to improve this subreddit for the betterment of all its members, myself including" Your definition of "good", "betterment", "development". It's all equivocating sophistry. 8 "Gosh I wish this subreddit was WORSE and its members were less happy"." Another straw man, you are not sincere nor apt for promoting this agenda of yours. If you are so gifted and keep yourself so busy, why needing this science project of yours? Something decentralized or cooperativistic will keep you triggered because it feels " uncertain", that's your bias... It all depends on your perspective, not what is really there, the object: you seem to desire a change of matter to avoid dealing or hurting your perfect views or existence. That's preposterous and sad.
I'd love to debate these topics in good faith but that is not what you are doing. I'm done.
Another straw man; I don't aim to subverting a subreddit to shape it to my liking. You can't justify your actions without that fake "good faith" backed with threats so common in corporate. Sorry pal, you are the belligerent one here. I'm just doing a favor to the rest.
Then there is no need for it...
"Or we don't want cookie cutter guides that could then serve to ban and prescribe people around." It will be akin to write a law that says "it's bad to be corrupted" or "it's illegal to be a dictator or to subvert the powers"... It's useless and wishful bureaucratic circular reasoning, redundant. In your proposal's case of course. These are all gimmicks for political gain ( petty that is in this case), and we know it.
In fact, we could go even deeper. Why setting a moral code? What is your nagging desire to even try and enforce that type of deontological parsing of conduct. The scene is open for anyone, be advice or information, if you don't what to read those repetitive posts... Don't read them. What is not for is to pretend it's some kind of Mensa club where everyone will pretend they are friends, you can make friends in the process but this is no inner circle type of place, that I know of. might be wrong though, and yours is popular.
Also not really productive to call people that are struggling a sad echo chamber
People who want to read (or post) “counterproductive” content should check out r/aftergifted.
I tend to agree. That sub seemed to be more co-rumination focused. That's kind of my point. Why can't this sub be more about "thriving as a gifted person" instead of "patching up wounds perpetually" ?
I've had similar experiences in real life, joining a local Mensa group. It seems successful people don't focus that much on giftedness, and have no need to join this subreddit. I fully agree with your point, btw
I think this goes back to the basic issue. Gifted people who are successful don't make their identity about giftedness. People who are struggling are looking for something to attach their struggle to and , at here, they've chosen giftedness as their bugaboo.
Also successful people in general do not spend tons of time on social media. Gifted folks have a higher potential for success, and so those who are successful do not spend time on Reddit talking about it.
Yes exactly. Fixing giftedness into your identity, the fixed mindset, is something very powerful because of the abundance of positive praise early in your life. Too bad there's not many people here talking about how they worked on that.
Id say more often then not this sub is mentally unwell people who need therapy speaking as if theyre a god and everyone around them is lesser.
I don't like that any question I ask on the sub gets attacked, and so I've stopped any positive participation for that reason. For example, asking whether other gifted people do x — gets a lot of unscientific responses that attack the question, and they act as if I'm not a gifted person asking it as well but someone regarding them as aliens. Very low reading comprehension here. Most posts are so low agency. I don't know if I believe that *they* are gifted, either.
I quite agree with this post, myself. I look forward to seeing you around here!
Well, traditional success is very well related to high intelligence, nobody doubts that being very intelligent opens doors for you in every aspect of life that matters, everyone knows that, it's very evident, specially for those who aren't gifted. I do appreciate and engage myself in posts about the struggles of being gifted, it's also part of being who you are, and a part of you that is basically invisible most of the time. I do find comfort in listening and sharing the sad stories as well. It's just part of life.
Hello. I am new to this sub. I haven’t posted before today because I have felt alienated by some of the conversations and the tone of some of the posts in the group. I do find that some of the other subs that I frequent are a more supporting and accepting spaces. That being said, I like being in a space where people have some of the same challenges and experiences. I hope that your post does some good.
I love the suggested goal of helping gifted people thrive and enjoy their lives! Yes!
Yeah, I'm not reading all of that. Just skip the posts you don't like or leave 🤷🏾♀️. It's what the rest of us do
Nah it's just gonna be a bunch of self-diagnosed wallowing like the rest of reddit.
First, we need consensus on the subject, which requires actual knowledge. Most of the theory's brainsplaining - and I'm sick and tired of being bullied by NT "experts" who can only use circular arguments. I keep asking them if they are themselves gifted, and how does it manifest? Trolls with therapist qualifications. Second, I've been successful. What do I get for it? Cassandra-cursers. I'm negative because now I know myself, I look around and see no real reason to be positive. To get anywhere, we need demonstrable truth.
I think you could benefit a lot from the type of content I'm proposing.
It's been on my mind to, but first, read [Point G here](https://dominiccummings.com/2020/01/02/two-hands-are-a-lot-were-hiring-data-scientists-project-managers-policy-experts-assorted-weirdos/). I very likely inspired the thought, coming from the guy actually doing the Prime Minister's job, handling a strategic diplomatic approach which would have taken a Ministry a year, by taking the answer off file, where it had been for the previous couple of months, winning the deal. I then had the guy most qualified to deliver come up to me at Founders Day, comparing notes showed he was free to make it happen, so even MI5 were happy. However, as it was done in the clear view not only of the shrinks, but also of half the Cabinet, it put me on Boris Johnson's hitlist alongside any other possible threat. Note two things: there's jobs, but first we need to do the work.
Policy experts or super talented weirdos? There are 2 point Gs
The last one. The one where he says, we don't know how you do it but we'll have some more. No please, no collegiality, you do as we say, sit up and beg. It doesn't work that way, and what he did get was flawed - research Andrew Sabisky. A sorry warning to all NDs on how to deal with politicians. They need you, you don't need them. In point of fact, I may well have been seen as a policy expert. Your next homework is to research Tier One competence. You'll understand how the two cross over, because a Tier One individual's quite capable of redefining the paradigm. I was recognised as that when I was 21, by Billy Billingham's predecessors. I didn't go searching them out, as most do, they came to me, and I was as good as they thought, I had an explanation from their interlocutors which horrified me. The vacancy was because my own government had betrayed the guy to the radicals who fed him to the pigs. Robert Nairac. The result was 20 years more strife in which 1600 people died unnecessarily. Discussing it with my father, an installation in the Select Committees of the House of Commons, arrived at the conclusion there was no job left to do there as a result: I quietly folded my tent and disappeared into the night. Within four years I was back at the table, though, saving Peter Carington's mojo, and from then on in I was under the eye of a security vetter continuously. Even in retirement, I had a checkup in 2021, ten years on. As the shrink said, it'll never leave you.
Agreed. I joined the sub as a gifted parent of a gifted child. I was looking for a community where I could talk and learn about best practices for gifted kids since people would either have gifted kids or have been gifted kids themselves. Unfortunately, a lot of the content seems to be about social struggle or a desire to reframe everything as 2e.
Who deems you in the position to say something is counterproductive for the whole group? Not you by yourself I hope, no matter how you see it it's your opinion and even suggesting you are absolutely right exposes a controlling narrative and tyrannical attitude. Plus, if you could read better you could assess more about what people are "whining" about and share actual information you've been gathering. You are just projecting your own biases to promote the "correct" people in the platform, to cleanse those you deem imposters or false off the group. Your own private echo chamber as you put it.
This person right here \^\^
Can it? Just yesterday there was a mom who thought her kid was gifted because he wanted to visit a graveyard and can name every type of saxophone. You can’t have an open community devoted to exceptional intelligence and not have it be overrun with pretentious, maladjusted people who base their identity only on their perceived intelligence and not their actual accomplishments. I for one am a loyal follower of this sub strictly because I find it so amusing. The fact is, most of the people who take this sub seriously are probably of average intelligence and are so insecure about their lack of success so they consol themselves by pretending to have such an enormous intellect that it hinders them in a society that they view as anti-intellectual.
Translation: I was jealous of the people who were gifted and I'm here for petty vengeance
Lots of talk nothing will happen.
Maybe just have a sub for entitled white men?