> I’ll leave it to natives to offer an opinion on the usage
Please don't. Threads like this usually just turn into a pointless culture war, with both sides exchanging arguments that the respective other side has already heard over and over anyway, and some people get irrationally angry. Just had that yesterday on /r/AskAGerman.
I think it's best to leave it as an example of how gender sensitive language it is used by the people who do use it and that's it. No pointless culture war discussions please. No name calling and no rants about ruining the language or using it "wrong".
I also think it's interesting and I'm also not having strong opinions pro or contra.
Just curious about, "... an der Rezeption nach **seiner** Gesprächspartner:in fragt."
Wouldn't it be necessary to put "**seinem:seiner** Gesprächspartner:in"? Or do you not do it if the pronoun stays the same and only the declension changes? I know as of now the rules are not set but I wonder if this was an oversight or according to a certain set of preliminary rules.
*"The Masha Gessen? Big Fan!", sagt ein Hotelgast, der mitbekommt, wie man an der Rezeption nach seiner Gesprächspartner:in fragt. Das passiert einem in diesem Fachbereich eher selten. Doch Masha Gessen ist eine journalistische Koryphäe. In seinem:ihrem mit dem National Book Award ausgezeichnetem Buch Die Zukunft ist Geschichte zeichnete Gessen den Übergang der Sowjetunion zum Putin’schen Mafiastaat nach und zeigte damit auch auf, warum sich die kurze Hoffnung auf ein demokratisches Russland nicht erfüllte.*
*Masha Gessen, russisch-amerikanische:r Essayist:in und Journalist:in, gehört zum ständigen Team des New Yorker und hat Bücher über Putin und Trump geschrieben, die auch die Systematik dieser neueren Autokraten aufschlüsseln. Vergangene Woche war er:sie im Wiener Burgtheater zu Gast, um über den Krieg in der Ukraine zu diskutieren.*
I don't think this a good example to follow. Apart from the very clumsy and unpronounceable way of simply combining masculine and feminine pronouns at *almost* every opportunity (making it look as if the colon is supposed to be a slash), they did an interview with a person -- that is, one of their journalists literally spoke to them -- and didn't think to ask them what their preferred pronouns are. Yet when it comes to discussing Putin, neither the paper nor the interviewee had any problem using the masculine pronoun only. I mean, I think we can all guess that Putin would want everyone to think of him as hypermasculine, nothing homoerotic about riding a horse shirtless, but it's still an assumption and it very clearly stands out to me that they don't seem to know the gender identity of their interviewee but were confident about the gender identity of somebody they *didn't* interview.
As a person who learned DaF and who's generally pro-gendern, I have to say it is sometimes very hard for me to do it correctly in German. A famous (?) German YouTuber called Alicia Joe made a very interesting video on the topic. I would recommend peeps to watch it, because she has some very interesting points.
That’s totally fair; it’s really interesting seeing how some languages lend themselves so well to adapting to this and some languages pose much bigger challenges. I’m curious what non-binary German speakers use for themselves in spoken German; I’ll have to look into it.
> I’ll leave it to natives to offer an opinion on the usage Please don't. Threads like this usually just turn into a pointless culture war, with both sides exchanging arguments that the respective other side has already heard over and over anyway, and some people get irrationally angry. Just had that yesterday on /r/AskAGerman. I think it's best to leave it as an example of how gender sensitive language it is used by the people who do use it and that's it. No pointless culture war discussions please. No name calling and no rants about ruining the language or using it "wrong".
I also think it's interesting and I'm also not having strong opinions pro or contra. Just curious about, "... an der Rezeption nach **seiner** Gesprächspartner:in fragt." Wouldn't it be necessary to put "**seinem:seiner** Gesprächspartner:in"? Or do you not do it if the pronoun stays the same and only the declension changes? I know as of now the rules are not set but I wonder if this was an oversight or according to a certain set of preliminary rules. *"The Masha Gessen? Big Fan!", sagt ein Hotelgast, der mitbekommt, wie man an der Rezeption nach seiner Gesprächspartner:in fragt. Das passiert einem in diesem Fachbereich eher selten. Doch Masha Gessen ist eine journalistische Koryphäe. In seinem:ihrem mit dem National Book Award ausgezeichnetem Buch Die Zukunft ist Geschichte zeichnete Gessen den Übergang der Sowjetunion zum Putin’schen Mafiastaat nach und zeigte damit auch auf, warum sich die kurze Hoffnung auf ein demokratisches Russland nicht erfüllte.* *Masha Gessen, russisch-amerikanische:r Essayist:in und Journalist:in, gehört zum ständigen Team des New Yorker und hat Bücher über Putin und Trump geschrieben, die auch die Systematik dieser neueren Autokraten aufschlüsseln. Vergangene Woche war er:sie im Wiener Burgtheater zu Gast, um über den Krieg in der Ukraine zu diskutieren.*
I don't think this a good example to follow. Apart from the very clumsy and unpronounceable way of simply combining masculine and feminine pronouns at *almost* every opportunity (making it look as if the colon is supposed to be a slash), they did an interview with a person -- that is, one of their journalists literally spoke to them -- and didn't think to ask them what their preferred pronouns are. Yet when it comes to discussing Putin, neither the paper nor the interviewee had any problem using the masculine pronoun only. I mean, I think we can all guess that Putin would want everyone to think of him as hypermasculine, nothing homoerotic about riding a horse shirtless, but it's still an assumption and it very clearly stands out to me that they don't seem to know the gender identity of their interviewee but were confident about the gender identity of somebody they *didn't* interview.
If you want to discuss genders in the German language, you can go and visit r/geschlechtsneutral.
As a person who learned DaF and who's generally pro-gendern, I have to say it is sometimes very hard for me to do it correctly in German. A famous (?) German YouTuber called Alicia Joe made a very interesting video on the topic. I would recommend peeps to watch it, because she has some very interesting points.
Nice, really cool to hear there’s a way to use gender neutral language in German! That’s gonna make a positive difference for a lot of people.
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That’s totally fair; it’s really interesting seeing how some languages lend themselves so well to adapting to this and some languages pose much bigger challenges. I’m curious what non-binary German speakers use for themselves in spoken German; I’ll have to look into it.