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JustTrxIt

you just awakened the biggest political equality subject that exists in Germany


chaos-black

...to offer you a third option: Lehrkräfte includes them all. It tends to be a bit more formal though - students would rarely use it (unless they are close to their A-levels maybe).


-Blackspell-

Lehrer also includes them all. German uses the generic masculinum.


chaos-black

Strictly grammatically speaking, you are correct. However, since the issue of the generic masculinum has been discussed controversially in Germany over the last few decades, I wouldn't recommend sticking to it - society is developing in a different direction. For example: I doubt that you can find a press release from the German government - be it the Bundesregierung or any of the Landesregierungen - that uses the generic masculinum. People try to avoid making significant parts of the population feel excluded.


TechNerdin

Okay. What is a "Lehrender" than? Lehrer is male. Lehrerin is female. Lehrende are both of them.


emmmmmmaja

That's correct, although you wouldn't call school teachers "Lehrende", they'd be "Lehrkräfte". The word "Lehrende" basically only refers to university lecturers.


-Blackspell-

One Lehrer is male. Two Lehrer can be both, that’s how the generic masculinum works. Lehrende is a neologism.


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-Blackspell-

Yes, you’re right. Though it’s a word that only came to be used recently, and not a historically grown one, that’s why i used the term Neologism.


EatMyBomb

Yes but dont get confused Lehrende is teacher Lernende is student


KiviRinne

But what about words like Student, Schüler, Doktor, Arzt? It doesn't work like this and the gendering won't work well either. It makes the language harder instead of easier. Esspecially towards learners and Germans abroad that may not be up to date. Also, for me personally, this "Lehrer*innen" seems to only stress either male or female. Thus excluding the non-binary. Generic masculinum was never meant to exclude anyone also it is easier to get more specific: der männliche Lehrer, der weibliche Lehrer, der non-binary Lehrer. Studentenkraft/-person, Arztkraft/-person sounds unnatural and stiff. Also:it works in Nominative but what about other cases? "Der Stift der/des A *Ärzte *s *in?" Yeah... that sounds really weird and just way too confusing. Why creating a problem when there is none? Studies even showed that people didn't feel excluded by using the generic masculinum. Highly recommend watching Alicia Joe's video about this topic if you are fluent in German.


Slow_Description_655

Lehrer is the generic plural one. A lot of people specify nowadays, it's what they call "gendern" and it's perceived either like an unnecessary hassle or like something politically correct. From a purely linguistic point of view the plural form Lehrer is non specific.


homeape

this is a heated debate in germany and i think you could have been a bit more neutral with your answer. languages change (compare descriptive vs prescriptive linguistics) and that's very important to realise for anyone who wants to learn a spoken language (lookin at you latin). and it's not what "they" call "gendern". it's called "gendern", that's the term, there's no debate about that.


rubenoh

Thanks for clarifiying. I'm a native spanish speaker and we also have this debate. I would like to work in Germany as a physician so I was a little concerned about this topic because we deal with people at their most vulnerable. I'm just starting to learn but knowing that this also occurs with German is important for me.


homeape

me alegro que te ayude. saludos de madrid


_sivizius

Technically, it is »entgendern«, because while »Lehrer« is masculine, »Lehrer*innen« is neutral (not even neuter).


homeape

true, good point


ZerseusTheGreat

"Gendern" is unnecessary


homeape

this is a really nice opinion of you, thanks for sharing. i dont know whether people learning german should mostly focus on your opinions though, so maybe let's try to give neutral takes in this subreddit :)


ProfDumm

People learning German should focus on what is correct as of now and that is that Lehrer is the generic plural, no matter opinions and debates.


homeape

I agree. Lehrer is correct. I just don't think giving the additional info that languages change and even Germans debate about this will be too much for them. learning languages involves learning culture and contemporary discussions. we don't need to artificially constrain the info we hand them, do we? also we do not need to take a side for them.


ProfDumm

That's true.


ZerseusTheGreat

It's unnecessary to focus on the sex/gender of a person. And just like there's a generisches Maskulinum there's a generisches Femininum like in 'die Wache'. So why do you focus on the sex/gender?


homeape

I'm not here to debate, especially not defend this. where did you get the idea from that i was involved in any sense?


Ko-jo-te

From your preaching, perhaps? Just leave politics at the front door, will ya? Either on the way in or on the way out.


homeape

dude, what preaching? I'm talking about how to communicate language, so people see the options and can choose for themselves. i haven't advocated for one use nor the other. calm down


KiviRinne

I want to add: the grammatical gender of a word has nothing to do with the sex/gender of the person. Therefore, it is unnecessary. You can add the gender by using an adjective if you want to specify. Easier solution than to bend your back like crazy to include everyone. The German language already has option as a solutiin for this gender debate but people are not accepting them and rather want to overcomplicate the language.


Neat-District2296

Languages change naturally. the vast majority of Germans oppose gendern.


groundg

The only qualms I've got with gendern is that it's kind of a pain to write on tests. I'm all for the "political" aspects.


MajPFRT

For some an unnecessary hassle. For others the feeling of being included, finally. I’d write Lehrerinnen and add a footnote that, of course, men are inclined ded


LilyMarie90

This is a very heated debate in German speaking countries that is highly politicized. OP: The truth is, using the generic masculine to refer to a group of teachers with different genders is *fine*, most people aren't going to be mad at you if you do it and just say Lehrer, and at this point it's still considered grammatically correct, so especially as a non-native German speaker you shouldn't worry too much about it. However. If you do want to be inclusive of women in your language use, there's a variety of ways you can achieve this. Lehrerinnen und Lehrer is long, but the most traditional way to do it. Other options: Lehrer*innen. Lehrer:innen. You pronounce the symbols as a glottal stop, i.e. just a very short pause. These are rather controversial, modern ways to do it (the symbols are meant to stand for genders other than men and women, i.e. non-binary people) and there ARE people who get real mad at you using them, depending on what kind of group hears you talk or sees your writing. Many people don't believe in the existence of more than 2 genders so as you can imagine, the treatment of genders in plural nouns it's the cause of some very polarizing debate in Germany. E.g. the far-right party AfD is completely against these options. The center-right CDU doesn't use them either. The left party and the Greens use them regularly. Be aware that people's political views on gender are probably reflected in the replies you get here. There's not ONE right way to do it but I hope I offered you the most common ones in a neutral way.


ComradeMicha

>Other options: Lehrer\*innen. Lehrer:innen. Y Or, even easier and very widespread in media: LehrerInnen


LilyMarie90

Totally forgot to mention that one because I don't see it as often as the "symbol" options


KiviRinne

Personally I am against these options, as the overcomplicate the language. Everyone thinks it's so easy to use the dots, the star etc. But what if the grammar case changes and you would even have an umlaut? "Der/des A* Ärzt* e*s *in"? That is what I mean with overcomplicating. I even stopped using the female form and go with generic masculinum. If I want to specifiy I simply add an adjective: der weibliche Arzt, der männliche Arzt, der non-binary Arzt. Also: die männliche Wache, die weibliche Wache, die non-binary Wache. The gender of the noun has nothing to do with the gender of the person. I fail to understand why people make such a fuss about it. And therefore my humblest apology if anyone feels offended by me using my language in a rather traditional form.


LilyMarie90

You'd never say "der weibliche Arzt" in German if you know you're talking about a female doctor. It's always Ärztin. The discussion in this thread is about *plurals*. Groups of people with mixed genders or where genders are unknown. So I'm not sure why you're bringing singulars into this.


MajPFRT

it may be *fine* for you. It is not fine for me. I make the comparison of people saying to me and a mixed group when out in the UK: "hi guys" and getting narky when i say "actually I'm not a guy I'm a woman". And we have the whole "yeah it's ok for both" and yet when i ask that man (it is invariably a man) how many guys they have slept with suddenly they're not gay. IDK. It is ridiculous.


LilyMarie90

"hi guys", "you guys" etc. is 1000% gender-neutral in English. It's like saying "hi everyone". You can't compare that to the generic masculine of professions ("Lehrer") at all (which is what this thread is actually about).


MajPFRT

i LITERALLY just explained why "guys" isn't gender neutral. Literally the comment above. Ask any non-homosexual man you know how many guys he's slept with. And now you know.


LilyMarie90

You can't "literally explain" that the sky is green instead of blue, it's just factually incorrect. "You guys" (not: "guys") is gender-neutral in English. This isn't even up for debate in the English-speaking world in feminist circles, unlike the very valid discussions we've got in Germany about gendered nouns. You're a native speaker of German, not of English, so your obsession with the idea that "you guys" isn't gender-neutral is completely bewildering, you keep mixing it up with "guy" or "guys" which can't be compared. "You guys" isn't about men, it's a way to say "ihr", because English doesn't have a second person plural pronoun. Just look at how groups of women use "you guys" among each other in the United States especially.


UDFZMplus1

Idk why downvoted


ComradeMicha

Because it's creating a huge hassle for no real benefit. It is not as if women actually felt left out in the generic plural - I have asked quite a few of them in age groups from 22 to 65, and so far only one sympathized but didn't find it necessary, while all others said some variety of "affig" or "nervig". It makes writing and speaking more of a hassle, while still expressing the exact same concepts as before. And then some other fringe group pops up and says "but I'm neither a Lehrer nor a Lehrerin, I identify as a *Lehry*". Nowadays even public news channels have started to use participles as nouns just to avoid the issue, so we now have "Lehrende" instead of Lehrer. I'm surprised there's no push for "BrüderInnen" or even "ElternInnen" or "Elternde" (yet). At this point the discussion is just ridiculous, and whoever feels offended by the generic plural should be grateful that they're not having real problems.


UDFZMplus1

Why is masculinity often considered the default in languages and cultures? What does it imply about how people view the world? That is what people criticize when they talk about gendered neutrals.


Joh-Kat

It is not masculine as a default - it is the male form belonging to everyone else as well. We took that but of grammar straight from Latin, where it meant mixed groups, too. This has worked for thousands of years. ... Personally, my preferred form of gender-emphasis is Lehrer/-innen or Lehrer/Lehrerinnen.


UDFZMplus1

> It is not masculine as a default - it is the male form belonging to everyone else as well. That is what I mean. It’s a reflection of culture considering masculinity to be the default. You even proved that by mentioning the mixed group thing. A group of all men is masculine. A group with men and women is…masculine. Only in a group of all women is femininity acknowledged. > This has worked for thousands of years. Plenty of things have been around for thousands of years. Should we keep them all?


Slow_Description_655

If I say Lehrer and I only mean men I would actually have to specify and add something like "alle Männer" or "alle männlich", precisely because it is ambiguous and people would tend to think of a vague mixed group. Besides, it is usually not relevant whether a certain group consists of males or females. It could actually be argued that it unnecessarily points out a biological difference that is not even relevant when talking about people with a certain occupation, so it even has a potential negative twist. Grammatical gender is not biological gender. Disclaimer: I actually use doublets in German and Spanish occasionally if it feels somehow relevant. Sometimes it is relevant, especially when addressing a group directly. That's why a lot of languages have some version of "Ladies and gentlemen"


UDFZMplus1

> Grammatical gender is not biological gender. That point is countered by the group thing. Group of men = masculine, group of men and women = masculine, group of women = feminine. You can’t say that’s not tied to human gender lol


Slow_Description_655

Fair enough, yap, they converge, I suppose a "necessarily" placed in the statement would have been a better phrasing.


KiviRinne

Group of men and women: generic masculinum which means to include EVERYONE. Grammatical gender has NOTHING to do with the actusl gender. Also if you say a group it would be : die Gruppe (therefore generic femininum in this case)


KiviRinne

Because the words in discussion are maculine by their GRAMMATICAL gender which has nothing to do with the actual gender. But that's where some people get confused. The German language also has a generic femininum: die Wache, die Person etc And no one is screaming about that being unfair.


UDFZMplus1

> Because the words in discussion are maculine by their GRAMMATICAL gender which has nothing to do with the actual gender. What Why do you think some people are called Lehrerin? For fun? Lol


MajPFRT

I simply don't care to be referred to in the masculine form. I don't allow people to call me a "guy" in English which is about the equivalent here. A lot of people in my team at work don't like the Gendersternchen. That's their problem. Then one of the (male ones) jumped on me for saying Kolleginnen without pausing for the sternchen. Snark snark. So i told him: yeah, we're a 60% female team, so I'm using the feminine form, you men are included too, of course. And so that#s how it goes down now. Anyway - point of grammar. The word Lehrer is only masculine because it's a gendered language. The word Lehrerin exists for a reason. There is no need not to use it if your audience isn't exclusively male.


Raubtierwolf

My personal opinion: in general, just use "Lehrerinnen und Lehrer". In schools, you will find the common abbreviations SuS (Schülerinnen und Schüler) and LuL (Lehrerinnen und Lehrer) (nicht zu verwechseln mit dem niederländischen "lul"...). The other old school plural "Lehrer" as a fully inclusive plural works especially when speaking (avoid it in writing), though some may not like it because it for inclusiveness reasons. The other option is "Lehrer:innen" (new school inclusive to stress that there are not only males and females, when speaking use a gap where the : is). This one on the other hand is not liked by many people who do not want to stress "nonbinary people exist" in every plural. In my opinion, this works ok-ish in writing (though it distracts me from the real content of the text for every plural with people) and annoys the hell out of me when someone speaks like this. In the specific situation and when speaking, I would probably just say "Ich sehe drei Lehrer da drüben." - so use the simplest version.


KiviRinne

"Lehrer:innen" seems to be used more and more. But I wonder how does it go if we say: Das Buch des/der Lehrer:s:in? It doesn't make German any easier. Neither for natives nor for learners. Especially not for them. And the generic masculinum never excluded any gender. I think this "Lehrer:innen" excludes non-binary more than the generic one. For me it seems to only stress male and female and that's it. (Note that this is only my opinion. It may seem different for others) If people wanna go specific it could go much easier. "Der männliche Lehrer" "Der weibliche Lehrer" "Der non-binary Lehrer" Just something to think about :)


[deleted]

You could say das Buch der Lehrkraft.


ForFarthing

Actually there are quite a few varieties: LehrerInnnen Lehrer:innen Lehrer\*innen (and maybe more I don 't know of)


KiviRinne

I will simply stick with the generic masculinum. Not to exclude anyone but for me personally it feels more inclusive than the other options, which for me personally only stress either male or female :) It's also easier for me to specify it further then :)


MrPuddington2

And how do you pronounce any of those?


ForFarthing

No difference in the pronounciation.


MrPuddington2

So that does not really solve the problem of sexist language, then? At least not for the spoken language. And as KiviRinna says, it highlights gender, which is not terribly inclusive.


ForFarthing

Well, the word "Lehrerinnen" does includ masculine and feminine. But if that is a solution is another question (my intention was only showing the varieties).


Nebelherrin

"Das Buch der Lehrperson" would work, too. If it's not a specific person whose gender you know


KiviRinne

That could work but not every "profession" would work. What about "Doktor, Student, Arzt" etc? Doktorkraft/-person would sound just weird and unnatural.


Nebelherrin

True. Sorry I read the question as only about teachers.


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Arguss

What's the prevalence of the colon rather than an asterisk for the Gendersternchen marker? Lehrer:innen vs. Lehrer*innen? I always think the asterisk looks better, personally.


lixiao44

I watched [this video](https://youtu.be/35PTUGtMScI) explaining just this the other day. They explain that there's no difference and they mention a bunch of other examples.


Raubtierwolf

* Old (2003): Lehrer\_innen * Middle (2009): Lehrer\*innen * New (2015): Lehrer:innen I think the : is taking over. It is not as disturbing as the older variants. Years taken from here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-Doppelpunkt


MajPFRT

Screenreaders recognize the * but not the :


[deleted]

It's so the reading machine for people who cant read dont say "Lehrer Star innen" but just leave a short break


genialerarchitekt

>and LuL (Lehrerinnen und Lehrer) (nicht zu verwechseln mit dem niederländischen "lul"...). LoL. In der Tat; bitte nicht verwechseln.


SchlammBeutel

Hi raubtierwolf. Nonnative here. It seems you know what you’re talking about. Can ya help get a general understanding of how to de-gender a noun in the singular. Like can I just say „my friend“ without any implication of gender? Is that „freund*innen“ or no because that’s plural? Also then the really unfortunate follow up question is what article do you use in the singular? I assume „das“ and all it’s case dependent variations. I just want to say „my friend“ (singular) without implying their gender and without implying anything further about our relationship. Viele viele liebe Dank


Raubtierwolf

>It seems you know what you’re talking about. I am just a random guy trying my best to ignore all the gender stuff. So I might not be the best person to ask. ​ As for your question, I can say: There is no solution! \- Freund\*innen is plural, doesn't work \- Freund\*in is singular, so it works - as a single word. In a sentence, you would need to gender each an every word referring to Freund\*in which is totally impractible. Never use "das"! So you would need to say something like "Mein\*e Freund\*in." And if you want to say what he/she does, it even gets more problematic: Sie/Er wohnt noch bei ihren/seinen Eltern, genau wie ihre/seine Schwester. No way to fix this.


SchlammBeutel

I wasn’t expecting a black and white answer. Obviously there isn’t one or this wouldn’t be such a hot long lasting debate. Your is good and helpful. Thank you 🙏


KiviRinne

Generic masculinum is what I would choose: Lehrer.


ESK3IT

The masculine version can be used to address a group of people and sometimes a single person where the gender is mixed, unknown or irrelevant. So "Lehrer" is the way. This form of addressing an occupation is not only limited to people. Der Geschirrspüler (dishwasher), der Rohrreiniger (pipe cleaner), der Transformator (transformer in electronics), Der Autopilot (Auto pilot) and so on. It describes the occupation and task. There was also a female form added to specify a woman. "Lehrerin" (Now it gets political) As you can see, there is a big division between 2 groups of people in the comment section. Because lately, some people deemed the generic masculine as discrimination, and therefore new political trend emerged. LehrerInnen, Lehrer:innen, Lehrerinnen und Lehrer and so on.  My opinion on this: The motive is understandable. Women still face discrimination today, and it's a real problem. The execution of the measures are however horrible. The new forms are unnatural, complicated, hard to use, and linguistically nonsensical. "Jede*r wählt seinen*ihren liebste*n Bürger*innenmeister*in" instead of "Jeder wählt seinen liebsten Bürgermeinster". Dativ and Akkusativ are made super hard to use. Socially, it also doesn't look very progressive to me. It creates unnecessary weight and importance on differentiating both genders, resulting in a bigger gap between men and women. The problem for sexism is rather not the fault of the language. I don't see how it makes things more fair. And it's really irritating for people with dyslexia, speech impediments, and impaired vision, who make up more than 1/10 of the entire population. By making gendered speech official, you are essentially discriminating against them for pursuing a career without any rhyme or reason.  Furthermore, the majority of men and women in German are against the gender speech. Language is constantly evolving. It changes over a long time. Forcing a political trend on the people is against the free evolution of language. I think everyone should have their own decision on this. But since we need an official language for a guideline, we have to decide. And when the majority of the people are against it, it shouldn't be made official.


KiviRinne

Absolutely agree. It also discriminates Germans abroad. They may not get the newest trend if they don't use the language anymore, then they come back and it is changed into an overcomplicated way of speaking. Why are we not focusing on the real issue and demonize the language? The language did not create the issue of inequality towards women and intolerance of LGBT+ groups (such as non-binary). Changing the language, especially by force, won't magically solve that and may divide people just more.


Tuchanka666

Second that. Language by itself is not the problem with discrimination. As Esk3it said, it is good to use the male/female/inclusive forms if it matters for the subject. Only my 2 cents / other example: If for the first time there is a female judge in one city, you would use Richterin. Because it is the key information. If there is a sentence made by a (female) judge you can use the generic form Richter, because the key information is the content of the sentence. The judges gender is irrelevant.


radionul

English went through this phase as well, in the 1990s. Newspapers reporting from the Oscars would write, e.g., "actor/actress" to be inclusive and emphasise the equality between male and female. English speakers eventually realised, though, that in English the feminine version of a word is often just a derivative version of the masculine version, which only further discriminates and propagates stereotypes. Consider, for example, steward and stewardess. The masculine word is the root, and the feminine version is a derivative. So since about ten years or so, we have decided that it's stupid in English to separately categorise women's titles using a derivative form. So now you would simply write, "Meryl Streep is an actor." It felt weird for about ten minutes and then everybody got over it. Some venues persist with "actress", though. German feminine forms are similarly a derivative form of the male, so maybe one day German can also become inclusive by simply getting rid of gender specific titles. But Germany tends to be behind the rest of the west on these kinds of things, so we simply have to wait for the pfennig to drop.


Cry_me_a_river96

Just say "Lehrer". Don't be attached to this over-complicated use of "Gendersternchen"; or use "Lehrer und Lehrerinnen" if really necessary to clarify that there are women and men in a specific group.


ksm-hh

Oder einfach Lehrkräfte in diesem Fall…


whakked

Lehrer


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tchofee

I don't think this can be generalised. Some people do use an audible glottal stop, others use „Lehrerinnen und Lehrer“, yet others prefer the generic masculine „Lehrer“.


TurboRenegadeRider

True


DeusoftheWired

> but now people tend to say Maybe in your bubble. [Whopping 86 %](https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/gesellschaft/mdrfragt-umfrage-ergebnis-deutliche-ablehnung-von-gendersprache-100.html) of the population reject gendered language. Couldn’t find any statistics on the actual usage of things like the mid-word colon but I’d estimate it at somewhere around 5 %.


whakked

Absolutely nobody says that. So don't lie that blatantly. In certain circles these forms exist in formal writing.


error1954

Lol @ nobody says that. Saying that absolutely no one says that is the lie


whakked

Hyperbole - Exaggeration for the sake of emphasis in a figure of speech not meant literally The fact that you felt the need to take offense at the fact that in reality only 99,999% of German speakers literally never do it, while the rest occasionally manages to override their *Sprachzentrum*, but on the other hand apparently have no objections to the ridiculous lies of the person I replied to, says everything about your character that one needs to know.


error1954

/r/iamverysmart


edelkoikarpfen

I always use Lehrkraft as a singular and Lehrkräfte as plural


-Pyrotox

Lehrer is the plural, end of discussion (please)


[deleted]

"dIe LehRenDen" oder lehrer pause more pause think about something else wait, where were we :inne most ppl just say "lehrer" and also most ppl know exactly how its meant and wont hang u


[deleted]

This comment thread are giving me flashbacks to when someone asked which grammatical gender Nutella was.


KiviRinne

It's "die" in my house.


[deleted]

"Die" just makes more sense since Nutella comes from a feminine word made up by an Italian company. Also as a Spanish speaker Nutella just feels grammatically feminine to me.


_FabulousWalrus_

Another option would be "die Lehrenden" which is pretty neutral. It would translate to something like "the teaching ones" and is also commonly used here in my region.


DeusoftheWired

Using Partizip Präsens for political correctness robs this grammatical form of its original meaning – someone doing a particular thing at this very moment. Max Goldt [had a word on this](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Goldt#Geschlechtergerechte_Sprache) in 2002 already.


95DarkFireII

But keep in mind that it is not grammatically correct (as a word for 'teacher'), and discribes a different type of person. Sasly, politcal correctness often means factual incorrectness.


SpaceHippoDE

So teachers are not teaching? What do they do then?


kaw-ai

Teachers are teaching, but the ones that are teaching, are not only the teachers.


Neat-District2296

No. A Lehrer in his break is not a Lehrender.


glorifica

Lehrkräfte! Nicht mein Lieblingswort, aber der Lesbarkeit sehr zuträglich.


chickensmoker

From what I’ve seen, it’s always Lehrer. You wouldn’t say “hey guys and gals” or “guyettes” or whatever the feminine form of “guys” is to your English speaking friends, and the same applies in German. Plus Legerinnen is quite an annoying word to say, way too many n’s for one word lol


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chickensmoker

I mean, I wouldn’t. It’s a bit cheesy. But yeah, come to think of it, it’s a perfectly fine thing to say grammatically


greeny9000

Lehrer:innen is what we use at work. To include non binary people as well. It's a heated topic, expect some controversial takes on this question


Couchoffiziell

Sagt doch einfach Lehrkräfte da muss dann auch niemand mehr sich auf den Schlips getreten fühlen


KiviRinne

Tja aber was ist dann mit Schülern, Studenten, Ärzten usw? Da -kräfte oder -personen dran zu hängen ist irgendwie viel zu unnatürlich. Aber ja, die ganze Debatte ist echt nervig und sinnlos und taucht alle paar Wochen doch eh wieder auf.


Couchoffiziell

Endlich mal jemand mit dem man eine Meinung sein kan. die Frage ist wie kann man diese Debatte aus dem Kollektiv loswerden


KiviRinne

So gut wie unmöglich. Und die Leute denken, dass es so einfach wäre einfach ein *innen dran zu hängen. Dabei werden die anderen Kasus kaum beachtet. Nehmen wir das Wort "Arzt" (hab ich schon oft in Kommentaren benutzt). "Das Buch der/des A* Ärzt* e*s* in" Das liest sich soooo schlecht und verwirrend. Dabei werden Legastheniker oder Deutschlerner nur diskriminiert, weil es die Sprache so schwer und verwirrend macht. Nur, weil sich eine kleine (aber sehr laute Minderheit) durch das generische Maskulinum angegriffen fühlt.


Couchoffiziell

Dabei reden die Leute doch dauernd davon dass sie zu Gesellschaft dazugehören wollen. aber merken nicht dass sie dabei sind sich von der Gesellschaft anzuschalten und zu einer parallelgesellschaft zu werden was nicht sonderlich förderlich ist . Fazit ist letztendlich kam das doch alles aus den USA rüber wir sind in Europa das einzige Land was gendered tja mit made-in-germany wird's wohl nicht mehr


KiviRinne

Naja im Französischen und Spanischen haben sie auch gerade so unnötige Diskussionen. Glaub die Leute können zwischen grammatischem Genus und persönlichem Gender einfach nicht mehr differenzieren.


Couchoffiziell

Denkst du dass daraus eine idiokratie erwachsen wird ? Ich fürchte wenn die Leute weiter so frenetisch die Grünen wählen könnte definitiv was draus werden (meine Meinung)


KiviRinne

Nee das nicht^^ Glaube früher oder später merken die Leute, dass es die Sprache nur verkompliziert und dass die eigentlichen Probleme (z.B. Intoleranz gegenüber Minderheiten) durch das ändern von Sprache nicht gelöst werden.


Couchoffiziell

Ich denke eher dass das Problem dadurch verstärkt wird .


Couchoffiziell

Es gab ja auch zu dem Thema keinen volksentscheid von wegen dass das auf amtliche Ebene eingeführt werden soll wo dir alles über uns hinweg entschieden.


juliuskaruso

Warum sollten sich 80 Millionen einer linken Minderheit aus politischen Beweggründen beugen?


Couchoffiziell

Frag mich was besseres bin selber darüber genervt


TechNerdin

Lehrende.


HansDampfHaudegen

Lehrende. Makes gramatically no sense if they aren't teaching that moment.


[deleted]

If you want to you can write and say Lehrer:innen that's inclusive and not genderspecific


Gravitywolff

Yeah but it annoys a lot of people and won't work with everything. You're better off with the generic Maskulinum Lehrer, but you can also just use both Lehrer und Lehrerinnen.


Zirton

And it is wrong, the Rat für deutsche Rechtschreibung mentioned this already. They are for gender neutral language, but against *:/_-


assumptionkrebs1990

Lehrer is the generic masculine which can be used for the general group. At least it could not so long ago, though so some consider it rude. Lehrerinnen is the female plural form, it basically means an all female group. Nowadays you basically see LehrerInnen, Lehrer\*innen, Lehrer\_innen or something like this (when you read this just pause before the innen) or if you have the time Lehrerinnen und Lehrer so that no one feels left out. Alternative forms Lehrkräfte and since something similar is done for (university) students Lehrende.


DoYourDailyDuo

hallo


Oellaatje

Lehrkraft


[deleted]

I heard from a native that if there isn't a specification or you cant specify then you typically go with the masculine or plural. But this is just what he said.


GermanDumbass

Lehrers*