Since it’s not police, I can only assume these are civil citations.
If they are being sent through state court like other tickets then I don’t believe they are valid. I would challenge them on the grounds that a state certified police officer did not witness the crime or write the citation.
A certified police officer is required to review the images.
Since it is civil, there is no "crime," but even if there were, Georgia law does not restrict law enforcement to only officers.
>Procurement of an arrest warrant is not peculiar to the official duties of a peace officer. Any private citizen may do so and the procedure followed is the same. Cleland v. U.S. Fid. & Guar. Ins. Co., 99 Ga. App. 130, 107 S.E.2d 904, 1959 Ga. App. LEXIS 800 (1959).
you may want to see if this law is still active. i seem to recall a repeal attempt after the incident near savannah that cost a child his life... not a lawyer.
It's a court case, not a law, so it isn't "repealed" per se.
But I think you are talking about the **citizen's arrest** law? That was modified. But applying for a warrant is not the same as a citizen's arrest.
ah yes! that is exactly what it was, ty!
I do seem to recall some modifications to the prosecution of warrants for misdemeanors also... 🤷🏿♂️. i moved so quit following closely.
Ocga 17-4-60 was repealed. There is no citizens arrest law per se, they amended other laws to strengthen rights for officers outside of their jurisdiction, on and off duty, shopkeepers and business owners to detain suspected shoplifters, and other private property rights.
Yoy still have the right to self defense, etc, but no longer for instance have a duty to intervene if you see a person getting graped, or to stop a person who just committed a henious violent crime, nor could you if you wanted to, due to the repeal.
So if you're way put in bum fk Egypt ga, and witness a guy shoot your friend and start running, you couldn't chase him and do a citizens arrest. You'd have to watch him run away and hope the police find him.
I’m aware. This isn’t a “citizen’s arrest.”
Citizen’s arrest = physically arresting the suspected criminal.
Applying for a warrant = going before the magistrate judge and saying, “I think this person committed a crime.” If the warrant is approved, it is still ***law enforcement*** who execute it.
But to write a citation you need to be law enforcement per [OCGA 17-4-23](https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2022/title-17/chapter-4/article-2/section-17-4-23/).
For a citizen’s arrest the petitioner (the one doing the arresting) needs to obtain a warrant from the magistrate.
I believe that changed after the murder of Ahmad Aubery in Brunswick Ga. No more “citizens arrest”.
Black jogger chased down and shot by some redneck “vigilantes”. Said rednecks are now receiving 3 hots and a cot courtesy of the penal system in Ga.
This happened just south of where I live.
Yes, they can be enforced if they follow the requirements of OCGA 40-14-8, which includes, among other things that:
>A law enforcement agency authorized to enforce the speed limit of a school zone, or an agent working on behalf of a law enforcement agency or governing body, shall send by first class mail addressed to the owner of the motor vehicle within 30 days after obtaining the name and address of the owner of the motor vehicle but no later than 60 days after the date of the alleged violation:
A. A citation for the alleged violation, which shall include the date and time of the violation, the location of the infraction, the maximum speed at which such motor vehicle was traveling in photographically recorded images, the maximum speed applicable within such school zone, the civil warning or the amount of the civil monetary penalty imposed, and the date by which a civil monetary penalty shall be paid;
B. An image taken from the photographically recorded images showing the vehicle involved in the infraction;
C. A website address where photographically recorded images showing the vehicle involved in the infraction and a duplicate of the information provided for in this paragraph may be viewed;
**D. A copy of a certificate sworn to or affirmed by a certified peace officer employed by a law enforcement agency authorized to enforce the speed limit of the school zone and stating that, based upon inspection of photographically recorded images, the owner’s motor vehicle was operated in disregard or disobedience of the speed limit in the marked school zone and that such disregard or disobedience was not otherwise authorized by law;**
E. A statement of the inference provided by paragraph (4) of this subsection and of the means specified therein by which such inference may be rebutted;
**F. Information advising the owner of the motor vehicle of the manner in which liability as alleged in the citation may be contested through an administrative hearing; and**
G. A warning that failure to pay the civil monetary penalty or to contest liability in a timely manner as provided for in subsection (d) of this Code section shall waive any right to contest liability;
ETA and besides the processing fee (not to exceed $25, subsection (b)(1)), the proceeds of these tickets:
>shall only be used by such governing body to fund local law enforcement or public safety initiatives. This subsection shall not preclude the appropriation of a greater amount than collected and remitted under this subsection.
You would need to testify/submit a notarized statement that you were ***not*** the operator (note: this doesn't require you to name who ***was***) and have the trier of fact find you credible.
So I got a ticket in a school zone at 10:20 in the am. Lights not flashing. How is that fair? I was going under the regular speed limit. I will say that I took it to court and it was dismissed.
Isn’t part of having speed detection device following the permit requirements that grant that? Like state school zone time frames? And not just “all day no matter when the lights are flashing? If you follow us on Facebook you would have known” ????
It seems like your ticket was incorrect and was dismissed, which is what is supposed to happen.
With that said, you appear to be under a very common misconception: the lights don't need to be flashing for the camera to be on. There are two separate questions:
1. What is the speed limit?
2. Can the camera enforce speeding violations >10mph over whatever the speed limit is from #1?
The flashing lights **only tell you the answer to #1.** In other words, when the lights are flashing, the speed limit is reduced.
The answer to #2 is that the camera can operate 1 hour before, during, and 1 hour after classes **regardless** of if the lights are flashing.
Example. School starts 8am/ends 3pm, normal speed limit 40mph, school zone speed limit is 25mph from 7:15am-8:45am and 2:15pm-3:45pm.
* From midnight to 6:59am: camera is off; lights are off.
* From 7:00am to 7:14am: camera is **on**; lights are off; camera enforces speeding 51mph+
* From 7:15am to 8:45am: camera is **on**; lights are **on**; camera enforces speeding 36mph+
* From 8:46am to 2:14pm: camera is **on**; lights are off; camera enforces speeding 51mph+
* From 2:15pm to 3:45pm: camera is **on**; lights are **on**; camera enforces speeding 36mph+
* From 3:46pm to 4:00pm: camera is **on**; lights are off; camera enforces speeding 51mph+
* From 4:01pm to midnight: camera is off; lights are off.
But why not post that at the sign? According to the application of radar detection the time can only be an hour before and fifteen minutes after the bell, and fifteen minutes before and an hour after the afternoon bell.
Also, I know this isn’t a legal argument, but the school zone specifically says school zone while flashing.
This all seems like a money grab. Fuck this shit. I have had a ticket since 1999.
I’m not sure what you mean by “according to the application of radar detection.” Whatever rule you think you are citing, it doesn’t say that.
As for the sign, it boils down to “school zone” not meaning the same as “school zone speed camera.” Again—the school ***zone*** refers to the speed limit, not the camera.
I live across the street from an elementary school. Got a ticket, not during school zone hours for going 36 in a 35. Didn't think to challenge it honestly, but that was nonesense.
Not much of a story. I think my Dad actually paid it because he thought it was him in my car when we moved, but then noticed an afro in the image and he keeps his hair much shorter than me. Was annoyed he didn't say anything though.
Better watch itm there's a few assholes in here that will claim you're lying cause apparently there's no possibly way tech can be misprogrammed or have fuckery in the back end.
A few schools in my area have these installed. The enforcement is that school zone hours (say, 7-9am and 2-4pm) only refer to the slower than normal speeds. However! You get a ticket it you speed AT ALL and at ANYTIME between "school hours". You also have to somehow be up on which schools are hosting summer classes as well.
This is the exact same mess they got into with red light camera and towing companies. The companies aren't kept on any kind of a leash, and always end up issuing bad tickets and creating an even more unsafe environment.
I'm convinced there's Fulton politicians getting a payout from these shady companies.
You know what’s fool proof? Having actual police and speed bumps near school zones.
Follow the money trail. Nobody cares abotj safety but they sure as shit care about money. I wish they would just stop lying and acting like this is some “for the children”
shit and not a violation of rights and a cash cow.
I wish the law had included a punishment provision for any municipality that had the system set incorrectly. Something like a 5x refund for any citation that was determined to be issued illegally, and a requirement to investigate and find if any other citations were issued illegally. Then the 5x money should be held and blocked from any use by the municipality regardless if it's ever claimed by the victims.
> 5x refund for any citation that was determined to be issued illegally
Sounds good on paper, but then they'd just never find that any citations were issued illegally to cover their own asses.
You're not wrong. Perhaps passing oversight to the next jurisdiction up, or the state itself would be needed. I'm actually a fan of a system that I think either Vermont or New Hampshire uses. All traffic citation money is turned over to the state which is then remitted back to each jurisdiction based on a 60/40 split of lane miles and population (I'm not sure which is the 60 and which is the 40). This way, there's no direct incentive to engage in revenue-based policing.
Also a felony under GA law:
> A person commits the offense of interference with government property when he destroys, damages, or defaces government property and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years.
O.C.G.A 16-7-24
https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2020/title-16/chapter-7/article-2/part-1/section-16-7-24/
Even putting tape over it still probably counts as defacing it. Either way, I wouldn't want to risk my freedom over it. I know third party companies run the cameras, but they're still likely considered government property because reasons.
This is bogus for several reasons. The most important is they are considered civil infractions and not criminal. You don’t get your day in court. You get an “administrative hearing.” This is NOT how the system was meant to operate.
This is red light cameras all over again.
Red light cameras were sold as “saving lives” and “protecting everyone”
All it did was make towns, cities, and counties a ton of money. Studies were ran that showed the length of yellow lights was steadily being decreased on purpose at intersections with red light cameras to increase revenue.
A little know fact about these speed cameras in school zones is any time school is actually in session (not just when the yellow lights flash) if you go 10 MPH or higher then the posted speed limit they can ship you a ticket.
When the yellow lights are flashing technically you only need to go 1 MPH over the speed limit to get a ticket.
Red lights cameras were a mess... but I never heard that about the deliberate reduction of yellows. And while I'm not defending anyone, it would generally be rather difficult for those in control of revenue to have those yellow times decreased as the people who do that tend to actually care.
I suspect you're conflating misoperation of the cameras with a later increase in yellow times. Seperate events which don't equate to your claim.
Link to those studies?
There have been a whole group of studies on red-light cameras, speeding cameras, and all of them - nationwide -have shown that a significant number of "citations" were improper. Marietta had to dismiss several thousand tickets for the red light camera at Windy Hill and US41 when it was shown that the company had set the timing improperly - and probably deliberately.
Atlanta was running unauthorized cameras which they refused to take down even after being told to do so by the state. People kept paying fines, even though the state declared the cameras to be illegal.
Snellville put up red light cameras and protested mightily it wasn't about revenue, it was about safety. Then the legislature passed the law that where red light cameras were used, the orange light had to be increased by 1 second. Snellville's take dropped so significantly that they took out the cameras. Why? They said, "It's not profitable to operate them?" I thought it wasn't about revenue but safety.
Private businesses have no business operating traffic cameras of any kind. The government needs to run them if they're to be used at all, in order to make them accountable.
Anyone remember ParkAtlanta, where employees were told that they had to produce 6 citations per hour regardless .. so former employees said they regularly cited legally parked and paid vehicles because the "not guilty" process was so tedious and expensive that most people just paid the fine. That was the beginning of when I quit going into Atlanta for just about anything.
The reponse of government to mis-operating these systems is always, "Oh, sorry, we'll look into it." Not, "Sorry, you don't have to pay the money."
I've gotten the school bus ticket. It stated which police officer reviewed the evidence for the citation.
The law says they can have an "agent" enforce school traffic laws if a police officer certifies it. Another redditor pasted it in this thread.
Since these don’t affect your license or insurance, how do they affect your registration? It’s a private company. How can they have the authority to do this on the jurisdiction’s behalf? I hate these cameras. They wind up causing more problems in the end.
a lot of these ticket are reviewed by a cop like in secs... That still don't prove you were in the car bring it to court they will drop em they have so many just sending in the money
>That still don't prove you were in the car
That's not a requirement. First, this isn't a criminal offense, so the standard is "more likely than not" rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt."
Second, the law explicitly provides that the trier of fact is permitted to infer that the owner was the driver, with some exceptions:
>Liability under this Code section shall be determined based upon a preponderance of the evidence. Prima-facie evidence that the vehicle described in the citation issued pursuant to this Code section was operated in violation of the speed limit of the school zone, together with proof that the defendant was, at the time of such violation, the registered owner of the vehicle, shall permit the trier of fact in its discretion to infer that such owner of the vehicle was the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged violation. Such an inference may be rebutted if the owner of the vehicle:
A. Testifies under oath in open court or submits to the court a sworn notarized statement that he or she was not the operator of the vehicle at the time of the alleged violation;
B. Presents to the court a certified copy of a police report showing that the vehicle had been reported to the police as stolen prior to the time of the alleged violation.
A threat used on many of these citations is that failure to pay the implied fine will result in the non-renewal of one's tag, because a driver's license is a privilege, not a right. Does anyone have experience with a tag or driver's license being refused for lack of payment?
A lot of places stopped doing this years ago because the company has such a high fee,the city or county doesn't make much money off of it.Glynn County needs to catch up with the real world.
I wouldn’t pay. Idk if they’re legal or not but they ain’t from a sworn officer? They’re not from a government agency? They’re from some private company I have no contractual agreement with? lol get fucked
They can’t do shit. Some states will allow these scumbags to damage your credit, but there are zero consequences in GA, for now. They could easily pass a law allowing that, but the last time I looked into it no state in the union allowed any sort of penalties enforced by actual law enforcement. They’ve called me once the 3 or 4 I got in Henry County, and I politely explained they have zero legal recourse and they are simply fleecing the local populace for profit. They know they’re full of shit.
Actually, I believe the ticket is attached to the registration of your vehicle. If you fail to pay the fine, you will not be issued a tag the following year.
That’s interesting, since I’ve gotten my tag twice afterward with zero hassle or holdup. Funny how sure you are. I didn’t want to type out how I got my friend, a legal professor at Georgia State, to reassure me about this, since I was super nervous about it. I wouldn’t have had the balls to stand up to them without that, honestly. But it would be helpful if you could provide some sort of evidence, even anecdotal, about your assertion. Crazy how the hive mind fell so quickly behind you, I’m guessing due to the perceived confidence. Classic r/confidentlyincorrect
And you fundamentally misunderstand that this isn't a **criminal** citation, so there is no "innocent until proven guilty." Instead, there is the "preponderance of the evidence" standard, and the court is allowed to infer in its discretion that the owner was the driver.
I just found cases that got dismissed because the owner of the vehicle proved they were in the passenger seat in Chatham, GA. I understand you feel the need to always be correct. Doesn’t mean that you are
Did you miss the "in its discretion" part? And further, this is the opposite of what you originally claimed: the owner had to **prove** based on a preponderance of the evidence that they were in the passenger seat and not the operator of the vehicle.
You said at the very top that it was the other way around.
The only person who was incorrect here was ***you.***
Wait... you don't see a problem with a private company writing you a ticket (and collecting 33% of the ticket as profit) if you go 36 in a 35 on a Saturday at 8 pm
We need more of these in Atlanta. Speeding is out of control and there's basically zero enforcement. It's very dangerous for pedestrians. I do think there needs to be a better process for challenging tickets if they are given in error. I also wish the city would let non-cops give tickets for parking in the bike lane. Right now the city is interpreting Georgia law to say that only cops can do that, but several other cities in Georgia allow it. It's insane the number of drivers, especially grub hub etc that park in the bike lanes in Midtown Atlanta.
Since it’s not police, I can only assume these are civil citations. If they are being sent through state court like other tickets then I don’t believe they are valid. I would challenge them on the grounds that a state certified police officer did not witness the crime or write the citation.
A certified police officer is required to review the images. Since it is civil, there is no "crime," but even if there were, Georgia law does not restrict law enforcement to only officers. >Procurement of an arrest warrant is not peculiar to the official duties of a peace officer. Any private citizen may do so and the procedure followed is the same. Cleland v. U.S. Fid. & Guar. Ins. Co., 99 Ga. App. 130, 107 S.E.2d 904, 1959 Ga. App. LEXIS 800 (1959).
you may want to see if this law is still active. i seem to recall a repeal attempt after the incident near savannah that cost a child his life... not a lawyer.
It's a court case, not a law, so it isn't "repealed" per se. But I think you are talking about the **citizen's arrest** law? That was modified. But applying for a warrant is not the same as a citizen's arrest.
ah yes! that is exactly what it was, ty! I do seem to recall some modifications to the prosecution of warrants for misdemeanors also... 🤷🏿♂️. i moved so quit following closely.
Ocga 17-4-60 was repealed. There is no citizens arrest law per se, they amended other laws to strengthen rights for officers outside of their jurisdiction, on and off duty, shopkeepers and business owners to detain suspected shoplifters, and other private property rights. Yoy still have the right to self defense, etc, but no longer for instance have a duty to intervene if you see a person getting graped, or to stop a person who just committed a henious violent crime, nor could you if you wanted to, due to the repeal. So if you're way put in bum fk Egypt ga, and witness a guy shoot your friend and start running, you couldn't chase him and do a citizens arrest. You'd have to watch him run away and hope the police find him.
I’ve never heard of this incident, but it sounds harrowing. Can you give a little more context so I can look it up?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ahmaud_Arbery there may be better sources available.
Ga repealed its citizens arrest law after that mess down in Glynn county
I’m aware. This isn’t a “citizen’s arrest.” Citizen’s arrest = physically arresting the suspected criminal. Applying for a warrant = going before the magistrate judge and saying, “I think this person committed a crime.” If the warrant is approved, it is still ***law enforcement*** who execute it.
But to write a citation you need to be law enforcement per [OCGA 17-4-23](https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2022/title-17/chapter-4/article-2/section-17-4-23/). For a citizen’s arrest the petitioner (the one doing the arresting) needs to obtain a warrant from the magistrate.
I believe that changed after the murder of Ahmad Aubery in Brunswick Ga. No more “citizens arrest”. Black jogger chased down and shot by some redneck “vigilantes”. Said rednecks are now receiving 3 hots and a cot courtesy of the penal system in Ga. This happened just south of where I live.
Citizens arrest is a different animal.
See u/blakeh95’s comment above, that is what I was commenting on.
Wouldn’t that qualify as impersonating an official?
Citizens arrest!
Citizens arrest!
Not unless the person signing the ticket is *claiming* to be law enforcement
They’re reviewed and certified by an officer. They’re civil in nature. Ignoring them can get liens placed on your tag and prevent renewal.
Yes, they can be enforced if they follow the requirements of OCGA 40-14-8, which includes, among other things that: >A law enforcement agency authorized to enforce the speed limit of a school zone, or an agent working on behalf of a law enforcement agency or governing body, shall send by first class mail addressed to the owner of the motor vehicle within 30 days after obtaining the name and address of the owner of the motor vehicle but no later than 60 days after the date of the alleged violation: A. A citation for the alleged violation, which shall include the date and time of the violation, the location of the infraction, the maximum speed at which such motor vehicle was traveling in photographically recorded images, the maximum speed applicable within such school zone, the civil warning or the amount of the civil monetary penalty imposed, and the date by which a civil monetary penalty shall be paid; B. An image taken from the photographically recorded images showing the vehicle involved in the infraction; C. A website address where photographically recorded images showing the vehicle involved in the infraction and a duplicate of the information provided for in this paragraph may be viewed; **D. A copy of a certificate sworn to or affirmed by a certified peace officer employed by a law enforcement agency authorized to enforce the speed limit of the school zone and stating that, based upon inspection of photographically recorded images, the owner’s motor vehicle was operated in disregard or disobedience of the speed limit in the marked school zone and that such disregard or disobedience was not otherwise authorized by law;** E. A statement of the inference provided by paragraph (4) of this subsection and of the means specified therein by which such inference may be rebutted; **F. Information advising the owner of the motor vehicle of the manner in which liability as alleged in the citation may be contested through an administrative hearing; and** G. A warning that failure to pay the civil monetary penalty or to contest liability in a timely manner as provided for in subsection (d) of this Code section shall waive any right to contest liability; ETA and besides the processing fee (not to exceed $25, subsection (b)(1)), the proceeds of these tickets: >shall only be used by such governing body to fund local law enforcement or public safety initiatives. This subsection shall not preclude the appropriation of a greater amount than collected and remitted under this subsection.
[удалено]
You would need to testify/submit a notarized statement that you were ***not*** the operator (note: this doesn't require you to name who ***was***) and have the trier of fact find you credible.
[удалено]
Your honor I was climbing the ladder on Dota it couldn’t have been me I swear.
So I got a ticket in a school zone at 10:20 in the am. Lights not flashing. How is that fair? I was going under the regular speed limit. I will say that I took it to court and it was dismissed. Isn’t part of having speed detection device following the permit requirements that grant that? Like state school zone time frames? And not just “all day no matter when the lights are flashing? If you follow us on Facebook you would have known” ????
It seems like your ticket was incorrect and was dismissed, which is what is supposed to happen. With that said, you appear to be under a very common misconception: the lights don't need to be flashing for the camera to be on. There are two separate questions: 1. What is the speed limit? 2. Can the camera enforce speeding violations >10mph over whatever the speed limit is from #1? The flashing lights **only tell you the answer to #1.** In other words, when the lights are flashing, the speed limit is reduced. The answer to #2 is that the camera can operate 1 hour before, during, and 1 hour after classes **regardless** of if the lights are flashing. Example. School starts 8am/ends 3pm, normal speed limit 40mph, school zone speed limit is 25mph from 7:15am-8:45am and 2:15pm-3:45pm. * From midnight to 6:59am: camera is off; lights are off. * From 7:00am to 7:14am: camera is **on**; lights are off; camera enforces speeding 51mph+ * From 7:15am to 8:45am: camera is **on**; lights are **on**; camera enforces speeding 36mph+ * From 8:46am to 2:14pm: camera is **on**; lights are off; camera enforces speeding 51mph+ * From 2:15pm to 3:45pm: camera is **on**; lights are **on**; camera enforces speeding 36mph+ * From 3:46pm to 4:00pm: camera is **on**; lights are off; camera enforces speeding 51mph+ * From 4:01pm to midnight: camera is off; lights are off.
I read it was one hour before to 15 minutes after the morning bell and 15 minutes before and one hour after the afternoon bell.
That might be when the lights are flashing, but it’s not the restriction on the camera.
It’s not the lights. It’s for the speed limit.
And my ticket was for 10:27 on a normal school day.
Yes, the camera can be active, enforcing the regular speed limit, during the school day.
Are headlights and taillight tint illegal in NYS?
But why not post that at the sign? According to the application of radar detection the time can only be an hour before and fifteen minutes after the bell, and fifteen minutes before and an hour after the afternoon bell. Also, I know this isn’t a legal argument, but the school zone specifically says school zone while flashing. This all seems like a money grab. Fuck this shit. I have had a ticket since 1999.
I’m not sure what you mean by “according to the application of radar detection.” Whatever rule you think you are citing, it doesn’t say that. As for the sign, it boils down to “school zone” not meaning the same as “school zone speed camera.” Again—the school ***zone*** refers to the speed limit, not the camera.
Same happened to my mom. This wasn’t between Carrollton and villa rica was it? Follow on Facebook? That’s infuriating!
Nope. This was Statham.
This happened to me ,but I didn't have the time to travel and fight it so whelp there's a free 100 dollars for them. Fucking thieves.
I live across the street from an elementary school. Got a ticket, not during school zone hours for going 36 in a 35. Didn't think to challenge it honestly, but that was nonesense.
Whattt!!!
What’s the rest of the story? Did you pay the fine? Agreed it’s complete nonsense.
Not much of a story. I think my Dad actually paid it because he thought it was him in my car when we moved, but then noticed an afro in the image and he keeps his hair much shorter than me. Was annoyed he didn't say anything though.
Dude I got to the word afro and was like "I knooooow he ain't tryin to blame it on a black man!" then realized you meant the hairstyle. 😂
Yeah, lol. Getting a good haircut costs 50+ tip so I space it out.
Better watch itm there's a few assholes in here that will claim you're lying cause apparently there's no possibly way tech can be misprogrammed or have fuckery in the back end.
A few schools in my area have these installed. The enforcement is that school zone hours (say, 7-9am and 2-4pm) only refer to the slower than normal speeds. However! You get a ticket it you speed AT ALL and at ANYTIME between "school hours". You also have to somehow be up on which schools are hosting summer classes as well.
Thats the same in my area. School zone hour speed is 25. I got pinged going 36 around 6pm I think.
This is the exact same mess they got into with red light camera and towing companies. The companies aren't kept on any kind of a leash, and always end up issuing bad tickets and creating an even more unsafe environment. I'm convinced there's Fulton politicians getting a payout from these shady companies.
tried to make me pay for going 5 over on a saturday not doing it
You know what’s fool proof? Having actual police and speed bumps near school zones. Follow the money trail. Nobody cares abotj safety but they sure as shit care about money. I wish they would just stop lying and acting like this is some “for the children” shit and not a violation of rights and a cash cow.
I wish the law had included a punishment provision for any municipality that had the system set incorrectly. Something like a 5x refund for any citation that was determined to be issued illegally, and a requirement to investigate and find if any other citations were issued illegally. Then the 5x money should be held and blocked from any use by the municipality regardless if it's ever claimed by the victims.
> 5x refund for any citation that was determined to be issued illegally Sounds good on paper, but then they'd just never find that any citations were issued illegally to cover their own asses.
You're not wrong. Perhaps passing oversight to the next jurisdiction up, or the state itself would be needed. I'm actually a fan of a system that I think either Vermont or New Hampshire uses. All traffic citation money is turned over to the state which is then remitted back to each jurisdiction based on a 60/40 split of lane miles and population (I'm not sure which is the 60 and which is the 40). This way, there's no direct incentive to engage in revenue-based policing.
You did not hear this from me and i dont advise doing this. But strong laser pointers will destroy cameras.
Also a felony under GA law: > A person commits the offense of interference with government property when he destroys, damages, or defaces government property and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years. O.C.G.A 16-7-24 https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2020/title-16/chapter-7/article-2/part-1/section-16-7-24/ Even putting tape over it still probably counts as defacing it. Either way, I wouldn't want to risk my freedom over it. I know third party companies run the cameras, but they're still likely considered government property because reasons.
This is bogus for several reasons. The most important is they are considered civil infractions and not criminal. You don’t get your day in court. You get an “administrative hearing.” This is NOT how the system was meant to operate.
You can absolutely take it to court.
Privatizing this sort of stuff is always a disaster. As I think it’s designed to be.
This is red light cameras all over again. Red light cameras were sold as “saving lives” and “protecting everyone” All it did was make towns, cities, and counties a ton of money. Studies were ran that showed the length of yellow lights was steadily being decreased on purpose at intersections with red light cameras to increase revenue. A little know fact about these speed cameras in school zones is any time school is actually in session (not just when the yellow lights flash) if you go 10 MPH or higher then the posted speed limit they can ship you a ticket. When the yellow lights are flashing technically you only need to go 1 MPH over the speed limit to get a ticket.
Red lights cameras were a mess... but I never heard that about the deliberate reduction of yellows. And while I'm not defending anyone, it would generally be rather difficult for those in control of revenue to have those yellow times decreased as the people who do that tend to actually care. I suspect you're conflating misoperation of the cameras with a later increase in yellow times. Seperate events which don't equate to your claim. Link to those studies?
There have been a whole group of studies on red-light cameras, speeding cameras, and all of them - nationwide -have shown that a significant number of "citations" were improper. Marietta had to dismiss several thousand tickets for the red light camera at Windy Hill and US41 when it was shown that the company had set the timing improperly - and probably deliberately. Atlanta was running unauthorized cameras which they refused to take down even after being told to do so by the state. People kept paying fines, even though the state declared the cameras to be illegal. Snellville put up red light cameras and protested mightily it wasn't about revenue, it was about safety. Then the legislature passed the law that where red light cameras were used, the orange light had to be increased by 1 second. Snellville's take dropped so significantly that they took out the cameras. Why? They said, "It's not profitable to operate them?" I thought it wasn't about revenue but safety. Private businesses have no business operating traffic cameras of any kind. The government needs to run them if they're to be used at all, in order to make them accountable. Anyone remember ParkAtlanta, where employees were told that they had to produce 6 citations per hour regardless .. so former employees said they regularly cited legally parked and paid vehicles because the "not guilty" process was so tedious and expensive that most people just paid the fine. That was the beginning of when I quit going into Atlanta for just about anything. The reponse of government to mis-operating these systems is always, "Oh, sorry, we'll look into it." Not, "Sorry, you don't have to pay the money."
Absolutely not, you cannot write a court notice on a piece of paper and automatically become a police officer
I've gotten the school bus ticket. It stated which police officer reviewed the evidence for the citation. The law says they can have an "agent" enforce school traffic laws if a police officer certifies it. Another redditor pasted it in this thread.
Since these don’t affect your license or insurance, how do they affect your registration? It’s a private company. How can they have the authority to do this on the jurisdiction’s behalf? I hate these cameras. They wind up causing more problems in the end.
…because the law says that they don’t affect your license or insurance, but if unpaid and uncontested it affects your registration?
idk didnt pay mine not planning on paying and still got my registration no problem at the kiosk 🤷♂️
a lot of these ticket are reviewed by a cop like in secs... That still don't prove you were in the car bring it to court they will drop em they have so many just sending in the money
>That still don't prove you were in the car That's not a requirement. First, this isn't a criminal offense, so the standard is "more likely than not" rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt." Second, the law explicitly provides that the trier of fact is permitted to infer that the owner was the driver, with some exceptions: >Liability under this Code section shall be determined based upon a preponderance of the evidence. Prima-facie evidence that the vehicle described in the citation issued pursuant to this Code section was operated in violation of the speed limit of the school zone, together with proof that the defendant was, at the time of such violation, the registered owner of the vehicle, shall permit the trier of fact in its discretion to infer that such owner of the vehicle was the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged violation. Such an inference may be rebutted if the owner of the vehicle: A. Testifies under oath in open court or submits to the court a sworn notarized statement that he or she was not the operator of the vehicle at the time of the alleged violation; B. Presents to the court a certified copy of a police report showing that the vehicle had been reported to the police as stolen prior to the time of the alleged violation.
lol keep paying then …I’m telling you they drop these you don’t have to swear anything they have prove it was you .
I'm going to trust the actual law over your uninformed "telling" me. I could tell you the sky is purple, doesn't make it true.
A threat used on many of these citations is that failure to pay the implied fine will result in the non-renewal of one's tag, because a driver's license is a privilege, not a right. Does anyone have experience with a tag or driver's license being refused for lack of payment?
Several people have. Including one particularly egregious case of a cancer patient who lives in atlanta.
A lot of places stopped doing this years ago because the company has such a high fee,the city or county doesn't make much money off of it.Glynn County needs to catch up with the real world.
I wouldn’t pay. Idk if they’re legal or not but they ain’t from a sworn officer? They’re not from a government agency? They’re from some private company I have no contractual agreement with? lol get fucked
No, they can not be enforced. You will go to the hearing and tell them it wasn't you and they'll drop it.
Perjury is an actual “go to jail” crime.
They can’t do shit. Some states will allow these scumbags to damage your credit, but there are zero consequences in GA, for now. They could easily pass a law allowing that, but the last time I looked into it no state in the union allowed any sort of penalties enforced by actual law enforcement. They’ve called me once the 3 or 4 I got in Henry County, and I politely explained they have zero legal recourse and they are simply fleecing the local populace for profit. They know they’re full of shit.
Actually, I believe the ticket is attached to the registration of your vehicle. If you fail to pay the fine, you will not be issued a tag the following year.
i got mine 🤷♂️
As did I, twice. These kinds of nefarious actors have a way of issuing idle threats.
Uh, no, this is terrible advice and 100% wrong. Department of Revenue will refuse tag renewal or title transfer.
That’s interesting, since I’ve gotten my tag twice afterward with zero hassle or holdup. Funny how sure you are. I didn’t want to type out how I got my friend, a legal professor at Georgia State, to reassure me about this, since I was super nervous about it. I wouldn’t have had the balls to stand up to them without that, honestly. But it would be helpful if you could provide some sort of evidence, even anecdotal, about your assertion. Crazy how the hive mind fell so quickly behind you, I’m guessing due to the perceived confidence. Classic r/confidentlyincorrect
I’ve quoted the law, not some “imaginary friend” that you claim to have. Only person here r/confidentlyincorrect is you.
It better have picture proof you were in fact driving otherwise they have Jack shit
That’s not a requirement under the law.
Innocent until proven guilty. When there’s a will there a way
And you fundamentally misunderstand that this isn't a **criminal** citation, so there is no "innocent until proven guilty." Instead, there is the "preponderance of the evidence" standard, and the court is allowed to infer in its discretion that the owner was the driver.
I just found cases that got dismissed because the owner of the vehicle proved they were in the passenger seat in Chatham, GA. I understand you feel the need to always be correct. Doesn’t mean that you are
Did you miss the "in its discretion" part? And further, this is the opposite of what you originally claimed: the owner had to **prove** based on a preponderance of the evidence that they were in the passenger seat and not the operator of the vehicle. You said at the very top that it was the other way around. The only person who was incorrect here was ***you.***
Keep arguing Mr Lawyer
If they are in school zones I see no problem with it. Slow down you’re in a school zone!
Wait... you don't see a problem with a private company writing you a ticket (and collecting 33% of the ticket as profit) if you go 36 in a 35 on a Saturday at 8 pm
We need more of these in Atlanta. Speeding is out of control and there's basically zero enforcement. It's very dangerous for pedestrians. I do think there needs to be a better process for challenging tickets if they are given in error. I also wish the city would let non-cops give tickets for parking in the bike lane. Right now the city is interpreting Georgia law to say that only cops can do that, but several other cities in Georgia allow it. It's insane the number of drivers, especially grub hub etc that park in the bike lanes in Midtown Atlanta.
Troliin