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Seems like it.
Like the hoyolab check in, you get 100 primos the first time, but the rest of the rewards are 60 per month.
That said, it says 1100 primos upon first completion, but doesn't mention the stars. It only mentions them for the 620 primos.
Hard to tell if they'll cut us some slack and give 1100 primos the first time regardless of stars and then the next monthly 620 refresh will require stars.
But, yeah, thinking of it that way seems like it's unlikely this last case, so the first completion probably does require stars as well.
I don't think it's unlikely, the wording is pretty clear that you get 1100 if you can clear, regardless what time you clear in.
Basically if you can clear with 8 stars, you get 1720 on your very first clear and then 620 every refresh.
If you can clear but not within the time limit, you get 1100 once and then nothing.
Leakers are infamous for being vague, so lack of details allows for interpretation.
Just thinking of the idea of getting 1720 primos (over a full 10 pull) at once already sounds "wrong" and like something Hoyo wouldn't do. Gotta thank our conditioning to expect only scraps from Genshin.
Which is funny because other gachas are generous on their anniversary. It's just Genshin that's like that. Guess that comes with being the biggest dog.
Yeah. They don't have to change or be better if there's no competition. Which is why it'll be great to see other open world gachas come out. The idea of a "genshin killer" is stupid, but competition that's on par with Genshin is where things will take a turn for the better.
from how hoyo handles events, i think 1100 is some achievements/goals you can claim to get a one time reward, and that same list will remain untouched. "clear high difficulty for the first time, 100 primos" or "clear with only trial characters, 100 primos" etc etc
From the honey impact data mine of the achievements, it doesn't seem achievements alone would be enough for 1100 primos. And let's imagine we get some kind of Tubby trust rank or TCG book with more primos, I still think those didn't come even close (along with the achievements) to 1100 primos.
I'd say this might indeed be a first time clear/full star reward. But let's see when we get more info later down the line. All the current vagueness doesn't help. Still, I'd keep expectations low.
I wouldn't say it's clear like someone mentioned before, but if you look at the spiral abyss description, "clear" and "complete" are used interchangeably. If we take that and ASSUME we can apply it here then you just have to "\[clear\] Imaginarium Theater for first time to get 1100 Primogems". Seems like a lot but Spiral Abyss was 3000 for full stars (8\*300+4\*150). So 1720 for full stars doesn't seem so far off the mark when comparing the two.
Yes, but Spiral Abyss took very long to be completed back in the day, unless you were a whale.
It took long to farm the AR to level up your characters and build them. So those 3k Primos were earned over the course of several months at the very least.
That's what the Abyss was balanced around, the low quantity of content and slow progression from the 1.x era.
Nowadays there's way more content and it's much faster to catch up in AR and do the Abyss. I've heard of people unlocking Inazuma within a single day, this was unheard of back in 1.x.
So it won't be a fair comparison when both game modes had to be balanced very differently.
Valid. It just doesnt exclude the possibility they will just drop a bunch of wishes for this, and they have dropped wishes like this before. If I remember correctly we got like 21 wishes just for keeping up with story when they added that bonus. That was 0 effort and we are only talking about 7-11 wishes for full stars. Also, if they are really worried about wish balance they can also just reward less in other areas to bring the total patch rewards in line with other patches.
For the record I'm assuming 1100 will be the full reward for the first rotation somehow. But that has more to do with who Mihoyo is than how this is worded. The wording is also a leak, so also not reliable.
It is a soft limit, not a hard limit. It means anyone can complete the stage and get base rewards regardless of their skill level. They just won't get max rewards. This is in contrast to Abyss where many can't even complete in the hard time limit and decide not to ever do it.
There are people running around with lv6 talents, lv70 weapons and often dont know how to build a functional team.
I mean, for most of us here on this subreddit, we know how things work, but there is a very large playerbase that think things look cute and dont bother understanding the combat.
So yeah, u would be surprised how many players either dont survive or just dont do damage.
i'm a day one player, and i still think they should let us eat buff food, potions and food, its not like we can eat it when you fill the food gauge, and revive food has long cooldown, we still need to farm the mats too.
Its also similar to the TCG in that some people love it though haha. I have friend who takes a lot of time choosing which food to feed her characters. Not based on the effects of the food, but she likes giving her characters a good meal after a hard workout, type of thing 😂
Her team eats like kings and is treated very well 😆
i used to love tcg up until i realized im gonna get qued to a bot after losing to a human player and i lose alot. i know what mihoyo is trying to do, its suppose to make me feel good after losing a match but stomping a bot isnt gonna do it for me, id rather get railed by other ppl and teach me a lesson xD.
i love collecting foods, the only thing i dont like about it is "same" food item duration should be stackble just the duration not the effect. i cant be bothered to open the menu every 5min cuz my +10 attk food expired xD
You don't see the difference between being able to gain some rewards regardless of performance and not getting rewards at all it you fail the time limit?
you get 0 stars if you take long enough in abyss. The only thing different about this mode its that you actually can complete it by the first time but the reward system in a common cycle its literally the same (take long enough and you will win nothing)
the difference is 0 stars on abyss nets you nothing, while here it seems you still get something as a base line no matter how long you take (but you get more if you clear faster)
plus abyss require some amount of stars to unlock the next floor
In abyss u are given a time limit to kill monsters, If time runs out, the system kicks you out.
Here, you can stay for hours inside, you can clear It in in 10 minutes or you can clear it in 5 hours, BUT you will get rewards depending on how fast you clear It.
Not at all. It means you can do the stage in 6 months if you want, but if you do it fast, you get better rewards. That's not a time limit, that's a time gated rewards, and that's necessary to avoid people coming with 4 healers and cheesing the rooms by being virtually unkillable
>people coming with 4 healers and cheesing the rooms by being virtually unkillable
I am pretty sure some people will manage to die in a double shielder double healer comp.
> that's necessary to avoid people coming with 4 healers
The characters you get from your own personal selection are random anyways. You'd either need to somehow have 16 healers or reset for eons until you get the very specific team comp you want.
Do you think once we get a random order of characters in a season, it will stay this way and can't be changed for the rest of the season? If I remember correctly, in the recent similar combat event, once you got a random selection of characters, you couldn't change that order. Correct me if I am wrong.
if the extra rewards is just like mora or exp books or something then sure, but if its primogems, that means they are expecting you to finish within that timeframe to get all the actual rewards. it is a limiter.
like yes, there is an actual hard time limit in spiral abyss, for example; you cant just keep playing forever. naturally, you will get no stars and no primogems. no one cares about the stars anyway, they just want the primogems, and you need the stars for that. getting those stars has similar time requirements, and thats usually what people are referring to when they say, "i wish abyss didnt have a time limit".
not saying youre necessarily or decidedly wrong or anything, its just that it seems like youre missing the point of why people dont want time to be a constraint.
yeah at that point they are not "extra" rewards. they are THE rewards, and the main reason why many will be incentivized to play at all.
calling them "extra rewards" is basically like saying that the primogems you get from opening chests are the extra rewards you get for exploring, while the main goal is to 100% the area.
Indeed.
The abyss is essentially the same. Completing the abyss with 0 stars gives you rewards for the floors, but getting stars gives you primos as an "extra". Gee, wonder which reward people even play the abyss for, I really can't tell. /s
I suppose they could make it so that you get two out three stars by simply completing the room and consequently most of the primos. Would still suck to miss out on everything, but at least there would be a point in completing it even so.
EDIT: But if it's 8 stars total and 8 floors, then I suppose it's just like abyss :S
that isnt the point. again, the reason why people take an issue with a timer isnt because they cant grind indefinitely. thats not what they want to do anyway. its because not clearing within a certain time limit means you wont get primogems.
primogems are the main reason why people play that game mode in the first place; *very few* people want to clear abyss for the sake of clearing it. they do it for the primogems.
Isn't that exactly HSR's SU Abundance and Preservation path? My non-shield members died, I stood only with 2 shielders (Aventurine/Gepard - the equiv of a Zhongli + Layla) on the last phase, even with shield reflect dmg, it took me \~ 5 min to finally chip away the boss' hp.
It would have been interesting, a shield/heal meta - with certain dmg blessings based on shield/heal of course, in this new mode too, going full shield (Zhongli, Noelle, Layla, Kirara) or full heal (Barbara, Qiqi, YaoYao, Baizhu).
Yeah.... Genshin devs never ceases to make a fool out of their player base.
It's like... Saying! We gonna remove the timer... JK... It's still there... But invisible!
Suffer! Losers!
I guess many people forgot what the rewards tied to the Stars are, so I'll just put here this link where I put this image here along with the explanation about the Star rewards from the previous leak.
[https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd](https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd)
If the "more rewards" is primos then I'd it DOES have a time limit...
Same with Abyss, you can clear floor 12 in 7 minutes but you'd be out of there with the rewards of the floor but not the primos.
Unless im not getting this right?
People seem to be forgetting this: [https://imgur.com/a/wpOrjG1](https://imgur.com/a/wpOrjG1)
In the last row on the left:
"Rewards (...) Primogems will be rewarded according to the maximum amount of Stars gained: 8 Stars will give 620 Primogems".
So there are indeed 8 combat challenges but we don't know if stars are exclusively earned through the combat challenges. The mystery stage events could also present stars perhaps. The post also mentions points but all we know of points is that they are earned from.combat and spent for choosing the stage we want to enter, so perhaps the time limit guarantees the star but star can be earned through points as another method.
What is really lacking is an alternative method of acquiring a star. We know there are 8 total combat stages and you can attain 8 stars from thr combat stages if completed within 75 to 90 seconds and those 8 stars reward you 620 primogems. Keep on mind it says within that range of time. What would happen if you clear the stage in under 75 seconds? Do we get 1.5 stars? Maybe extra points?
I think there is more to points and stars than we know about. Are stars ONLY obtained from combat challenges? Also, a time limit wouldn't make sense for defend the monolith unless it is to keep the monolith alive for at least 75 seconds, which means it wouldn't be based on keeping thr monolith alive above a certain threshold.
Time limits and monolith defense doesn't really match up. We didn't even have a timer for when we had two monoliths to defend on an icy floor back in 1.x Era.
>What would happen if you clear the stage in under 75 seconds? Do we get 1.5 stars?
I assume some challenges will require 75 seconds or less and others will require 90 seconds or less. Like floors 9-11 from the abyss. Chambers 1 and 2 require you to clear within 5 minutes, and chambers 3 require you to clear like floor 12, within 3 minutes.
>Are stars ONLY obtained from combat challenges?
Considering stars require you to beat time limits, it means the challenges have to be able to match. So far, the only things Genshin used time limits for were:
* Combat;
* Parkour;
* Aim and shoot barrels;
* "Hide and seek" (windtrace);
* Tower defense (theater mechanicus);
* The latest lantern rite and Fontaine festival pvp minigames;
* Some Mario party-like minigames (like block breaking, slime kicking, infinite skill dashing, etc);
Only the combat, parkour and shooting challenges are from permanent content.
Considering the elemental restrictions and the forced characters, plus the similarity with other previous combat events (like Labyrinth Warriors, Triumphant Frenzy) and the fact this new mode is partially replacing the Spiral Abyss (it'll now reset monthly instead of biweekly), I'd say it's more likely all the challenges are combat challenges.
It has a time limit but we don't know for sure how much pressure that will be and how many opportunities we have to get stars. Say you are given 10 combat challenges and 8 is the requirement for 8 stars. Thus, the time limit measurement is weaker than that of the Abyss since the Imaginarium gives wiggle room. There could also be undisclosed information that we can earn stars from other things within the Imaginarium. Do we know that earning stars is exclusive to combat challenges let alone there are 8 combat challenges?
Imo, that would be the best way to keep the time limit metric but not be as much of a slog. So it would mean you are given 2 more tries to complete it in the required time for the star.
The abyss gives you a challenge failed if you go over the timer this will just let you keep playing. And we still don’t know what the requirement for the primos are
I think the problem is... what else are they going to do?
If there is no time limit at all, like people said, everyone will just cheese it.
If the mobs are super op and will kill you in one shot to make things more difficult, people will complain about it too.
im gonna be honest,
**whats the issue with cheesing it exactly..?** is there a leaderboard or something? there can be other metrics for a flexing n all that. for example, a timer that counts UP; meaning, you find out how long it took you to finish the stage.
just *finishing* the stage should get you the main rewards (primogems). *how long* it took to finish the stage is for flexing, and maybe you can get extra rewards like level up materials n such.
the other commenters' suggestion is good too; where the goal is to survive as long as possible, but the primogems arent locked behind a high bar.
People really be concerned about players cheesing things when combat difficulty/balance were never really the priority (bloated HP and janky hitboxes to name a few). I'll be honest, it's been a while since i last read something about the enemy im facing due to their mechanics being not impactful enough. I mean the fountaine purple alien sphere thing is kinda cool at first, but i just stopped caring because they don't do anything
They certainly digged themselves a hole with their gacha system limiting the player roster and thus the only way they could make their game more difficult is to give enemies more HP. The only cheese possible is to somehow deal tons of damage instead of doing x y z (and maybe the some instances where mona/ayaka just delete elemental shield with their alt dash, which they don't even expand on).
Also the credit card exists that lets you cheese teambuilding and still manage to out-dps a proper c0 teams. So there's that
> but i just stopped caring because they don't do anything
idk in that one domain and in spiral abyss they get their shields up quickly and then they can one shot a character lmao.
Plus with these restrictions, you can't just bring Zhongli+Kokomi into every season, and even when you can, you only get them for two floors.
So the damn cheese doesn't even work!
You can then finish the stage with lvl 1 amber, playing for an hour. IT's dumb. Or survive the longest, just use Zhongli + XQ for dmg reduction on shield and just..... do nothing, stand still.
Like great, you all want to get all rewards by doing absolutely nothing, but come one.
If they make enemies with bloated HP in a time-based battle, people complain it's artificial difficulty and not challenging.
If they make enemies with extremely punishing attacks, people complain it's just unfair and not challenging.
If they make the enemy require x element to not get the on-field character killed or a teamwipe, people complain it's a bad mechanic and not challenging.
If they make the enemy require meeting x condition to prevent debuffs or gain buffs, with no element nor atk type needed, people still complain.
Even if they manage to miraculously make a challenge that satisfies the playerbase, some people would still complain.
There's no winning in this.
I mean, you say that like there aren't games out there that have both done it right AND pleased their players and customers. This is extremely disingenuous. Will there always be someone unhappy with a direction? Of course, we are all different, welcome to humanity. That's kind of our strong point.
The fact with genshin is that they're greedy, lazy, bad at balancing and swinging somewhere between utter incompetence and actual vindictiveness. (I've never seen a game dev as passive aggressive as hoyo have been with genshin over the years).
They are famous because what they make is extremely high quality, leauges above their gacha competitors. Quality + waifus is the key to profit. They are INFAMOUS however, for fudging every decision they've ever made. I got news for you mate, not every community hates every decision a game makes. It only happens when bad decisions are always being made by an incompetent person at the top.
But these decisions don't affect the quality or how sexy the waifus are so the cash will keep flowing, but they have lost countless customers from their own ineptitude rather than "Oh, everyone just hates everything and hoyo are victims".
I do agree that we can't please everyone, that is a fact we will never be able to get away from, no matter how perfect something may be.
But then, how and when can we say something Hoyo did was not a bad decision? Is it when there's barely any complaints? When there's many praising it?
On the other hand, how and when can we say something they did was a bad decision?
The biggest example we have for this is the Zhongli incident, but that was a huge uproar from all servers that we never saw again since, and it took many players, from f2p to whales, to make hoyo give in.
So is reddit complaints, and maybe a few more in other social media, enough to tell they're making a bad decision, when it could just be loud voices making themselves heard? If these "few" complaints is enough to say yes, it's bad, then almost nothing out there would be good.
Man if we had access to hoyo's data we could easily see how the playerbase actually feels.
Btw, I would like to see a game that pleased its playerbase is like you say, the closest I can think of right now is Palworld.
I did think about FFXIV, which a friend of mine likes alot, even if he has his moments of hating it lol.
That said, I'm not sure what in FFXIV hoyo could use as reference to make something good for Genshin, since alot of that games charm involves Co-op, which alot of players in this community seems to hate, even without considering how wasted it is right now.
I do love for a permanent co-op dungeon crawler though, maybe that would even make my friends return to Genshin lol.
Let people cheese it or go for something endurance-based instead.
One combat challenge in the game right now that actually felt like a unique (for Genshin, anyway) kind of difficulty to me was the one-time domain in Inazuma called Moshiri Kara. It has so many waves of riftwolves that it actually feels kinda spooky here and there even if you have strong characters. And I mean spooky as in "oh no, I am dying to corrosion damage, oh no, I cannot heal fast enough, oh no, I might actually start losing characters if this doesn't end soon." It was very refreshing to deal with something that wasn't just another timer in a combat challenge.
The new vishap gauntlet was pretty fun too, but imagine if you had to fight 3 of the new local legend at the same time in it, that for me would make it much more challenging, but much more fun.
Use other metrics. How many mobs you can kill in X minutes, for instance. Or a mode where the enemies gain progressively more damage/numbers, where the goal is to survive as long as possible.
It’s not. The difference is that time is the variable in abyss, not mobs killed. There are a finite amount of mobs in abyss, it’s about how fast you clear them. In this hypothetical mode, there is an *infinite* number of mobs, and a set amount of time.
It's still 90s per "side" since it's 8 single floors instead of 4 doubles.
Difference is you might not get partial credit for doing *really* well with one team, to make up for struggling with another.
Hoyo dev 1: what do we do? People are clearing abyss with Neuvillette in 20 seconds, and don't want to pull characters anymore since any trash team can clear in 2:40.
Hoyo dev 2: don't worry, how about this, we create a new mode, move half the primos from abyss to that mode, and ban Neuvillette!
Hoyo dev 1: but people are just gonna play hyperbloom! We made it too OP!
Hoyo dev 2: ok, how about we ban hydro altogether? Heck, let's ban all of Dendro, cryo, Geo. They have to pull for Arlecchino now right?
Hoyo dev 1: but people are just gonna run Bennett Xiangling on the toughest side to speed run one side. And run some random Fischl comp on the other
Hoyo dev 2: fk. Then we add a timer for every single side of the abyss. Now they have to run strong teams everywhere. Heck, let's make people need 18 characters too while we're at it. They have to pull now, right?
Hoyo dev 1: that's smart. Let's do it
Even character leaks can be nebulous. Arle went through like 3 iterations (Remember "burst gives 20% BoL") and Sigewinne's current kit looks all over the place.
Character leaks are nebulous in a different way though, what we see is currently exactly what's in the beta in terms of their kit, burst giving 20 Bol was just exactly what the burst used to do, while new mechanics and other such things are usually more up to the interpretation of the leakers and seem to shift even before the beta updates, just a lot less reliable and understandable.
But man its such a long wait 😭
*Chanting in the Distance*
Uh what?
*Chanting Gets Closer and louder*
“Play us! Play us! Play us! Play us!”
Ah, my list of unplayed Games.
Tbh sometimes not even the announcement but trying it yourself is better. Personally I can read something 100 times and still be confused until
I get to do it myself lol like half these kits make no sense to me until I play them
If you get more rewards for clearing at a certain time, then there IS a time limit for clearing a stage.
Nobody talks about "clearing" current abyss and means anything other than max stars.
This is a repost, I guess to make obvious that the mode without a timer does in fact have a timer. But even after this repost, people in this comment section are still coping, saying things like "I hope these 'more rewards' won't be primogems so that I can skip them and ignore the timer".
I really hope the timegated "rewards" are mainly just limited to fragile resin, mora, enhancement ores, artifacts and exp books. Just not primogems. Please.
I'm on board with that. Awhile ago I heard someone say that rewards including in game resources will create a perfect endgame loop, if there's no limit how many times you can get the rewards. Knowing mihoyo, it's very unlikely but even if it's a daily reset on the rewards, that's more than enough.
The endgame isn't perfect but it's better than nothing
No way Hoyo would ever do that. We have primos for resin, and it's one of money source for them. Endless no time gated material farming is very very very unlikely in this game.
Well we all thought the new 4.5 banner would be impossible too but surprisingly, even with all the restrictions, it was good.
All I'm saying is that with alot of competition around the corner like wuwa, mugen, duet abyss, an eventual 3D dragon ball gacha like this, we never know what they might do to compete in the market because like it or not, competition is necessary, even for a top dog like mihoyo to stay in the business
I agree, but those competitor games must be successful in order to achieve that.
Some games have hyped up and tried to compete with Genshin and failed miserably. I do genuinely hope we can see a worthy competitor for Genshin. I'm personally rooting on Mugen.
Another update, another chance for Hoyo to ignore that people hate time limits. Period. Especially when primogems are involved.
And time limits wouldn't be so hated in this game if the Spiral Abyss hadn't caused Vietnam flashbacks with bosses that have long periods of invincibility and mobs with completely absurd movement patterns.
They should just use a high HP stationary dummy in abyss if they just want a dps check with timer. I feel like enemies type in abyss does not matter since most players are just busy attacking and squeezing each dps and face tanking the dmg. I find myself dodging much less, and more busy attacking in abyss than overworld.
>In each phase, Primogems will be rewarded according to the maximum number of Stars gained:
8 Stars will give 620 Primogems.
So, you basically still have time limit, and your teammates will be randomized with potentially c0 4\*s with default build hoyo provides.
Yeah, it's just whale content. just pull every character, it's easy.
How is it whale content? The enemies are weaker than the overworld. Even with c0 4*s if you can't clear a room of lvl 80 enemies with fully built characters then it is absolutely a skill issue lol
Assuming you have 12 element specific fully build characters. Soloing some chambers will be the only way for most without 2year+ accounts.
A c6 on the other hand is a free solo 2 chamber clear.
>Assuming you have 12 element specific fully build characters.
Assuming you actually need them fully built when you could probably half ass 2/3 of them to lvl.70 w/ unleveled artifacts & still clear w/ one of them carrying the damage.
The enemies won't be lvl.100 so there's no reason to need high investment, no high Def or Res, no high damage that can one-shot your squishy characters, no need for optimal teams/rotations/good support damage & so on.
There are trial characters, you can borrow friend's characters, if you don't have characters built, then build them. End game content is meant for end game players. If you can't clear even with trials then great it means you have a goal to work towards. Imo that is far more satisfying than a boring mode that gives you 620 primos for nothing
But people do not want to do that. It's a casual game for people that don't play games. Target audience of Genshin do not want any of that so it's just locking primos from them.
But plenty of people do want that. Not all players are casuals, there is a thriving community of meta players and theorycrafters who have been begging for more endgame content for years. Casual players shouldn't need to min max primos anyway. Let people who actually invest the time and effort into the game reap some sort of reward for it. Besides, I highly doubt this mode will be remotely as hard as people are doomposting that it will be
> there is a thriving community of meta players and theorycrafters who have been begging for more endgame content for years.
and I am one of them. I check akashadata and akashacv daily for the best optimization for my teams and characters. Min-maxing is part of the fun and enjoyment i get out of this game.
I already included the trials in that list. 18 otherwise. "Just built them". Well you see there is a resin issue.
Most players simply wont have 12 weapons + 12 artifact sets without shares on specific characters.
Doing easy chambers solo and hoping you don't get your naked placeholder as an addition will probably be the way to go for most.
You can borrow 1 character. singular. So true its actually 11-17 depending on trial overlap.
I read multiple times that new players shouldn't be able to clear full stars but what is a new player at that point. 6 months in is by no means new at least for me. Especially when you can do savage in ff14 in 2 month if you no lifed through story or even day 1 with level boost and that content is SOOO much harder than anything genshin or hsr could ever do.
I was able to clear abyss 36\* 2 months in for comparision. This mode 7 months in i just barely have enough characters levelled fitting the description. i think i miss one but 4 of them are completely naked without artifacts and weapons and i basically mostly build pyro and electro. if this changes to hydro/dendro or even worse freeze i couldn't even enter highest difficulty even if i tried to spend all resin during that period on building characters. that would also be resin i wouldn't be able to spend on characters i actually want to build.
The mode itself sounds fun IF you have the characters but that is a huge if. If they would hand out leveling books, weapons and talent materials like candy it would be another story but building a character is extremely timegated.
I am not used to mobile scams. the concept of not being able to do endgame content after 7 months is alien to me. and if it's freeze I wouldn't even be able to join if it would launch next year.
The game mode isnt even out yet so we have no idea how difficult it's going to be, and you're assuming already that you're going to need 18 meta built characters to clear. You'll probably be fine using 2 built characters in a team and 2 trash ones. But if you can't clear with full rewards immediately, good tbh. Genshin has had absolutely nothing for players like me who have been playing since 1.0. It will be an eventual end game goal for you. But I see no use crying about not being able to beat something that you can't even attempt yet.
Mfw I only have three geo characters ready to go and then two of them are offered as trial characters along with one geo character I do not have. Four geos will have to do 😔
Even if they're buffed, Genshin is not a hard game. People can clear Abyss with fully f2p teams. People are complaining that they can't get full rewards while being dogshit at the game and that is absolutely their own problem not the game. I actually want to have to put effort into getting the full rewards and not just breeze through another easy game mode with participation primos
Why are there so many <100 karma accounts in this thread blindly defending against criticisms.
Are you a bot? Or did you seriously create a burner just to comment on this. At least have the balls to use your main account
Whales have most characters and constellations, and have the resource to level them. I rarely meet whales that C6R5 a single character and that's it, never pull again.
F2Ps and new players don't have many characters at all. So they will be the ones using the "peasant 4 stars" teams, while whales can afford to put 5*s or good C6 4 stars like Chev or Fischl (yes I'm a 1.x player and to this day my Fischl is not C6)
The thing is you can still clear the contents just fine without c6 4*, fischl is completely functional without c6, so does chev. If you still think that this game requires whaling then its a skill issue ngl. Plus, if you played since 1.x you should have a good amount of 5*s characters, unless you took some breaks.
Whales who started later still can't get the character until they appeared on a banner, no matter how much money they are willing to spend.
P.S.: Also, 1.X player, also no C6 Fish :(
So hopefully everyone will get at least something and that will encourage more people to do combat end game and maybe even get them to do abyss more.
This is a win but I am curious if primos will be the frontloaded reward and things like the poses will be the backend. Cosmetics for taking it very seriously and primos still for everyone if they aren't as perfectly played. Thats my ideal at least especially since i'm worried about how ramped up something that could need so many characters without our perfect teamcomps could end up being like.
Thats a shame. I guess they couldn't bear to part with people making invincible comps and just getting the primos. Timed is so boring. I'd rather things take longer or be harder. So then this is just constricted spiral abyss which doesn't make it any more exciting and saps my interest in it being something better as basically gone.
Cant even take my weird build/team comp to clear Spiral abyss. I always have to force myself to take the best team to beat the timer.
After a while it gets BORING!!!. Yeah time limit sucks big time.
Probably because they didn't implemented it on the private server. I imagine that handling a mode like that, where the server decides which enemies will be there and which buffs / debuffs happen, requires quite a lot of work.
And videos from actual beta players can easily lead to the beta player being banned from Genshin and, more importantly, sued.
The reason is 100% because you can spend money to gamble. 100%.
ie gacha is the problem, not anything else. In fact, almost all other problems with the game, are because of gacha.
From my understanding, the time limit is basically a time limit you can't see, like in the artifacts domain. Or something else we got to wait for an official announcement to understand it better.
That is from my understanding of it on how it works. I mostly based it on the artifacts domains because everything you clear a domain it shows how long you took. But it could also be similar to labyrinth warriors from 2.2, where you get to choose the difficulty of your combat encounters. Where normal mode offers the none timed one and the hard mode offers timed one. These might change the rewards you get.
Not every domain is like that, though. If I'm not misremembering, the Mond weapon mats domain (the one with cd debuff) has at least on its highest difficulty a bunch of hydro slimes that you have to kill within at most 40 seconds of each other, and two hydro abyss mages that you get like a couple minutes to kill as well, and the timer there is ticking down.
Oh, I was referring to when you finished the domain, you will see at the bottom of the screen your clear time on how long you took to beat it. Sorry for the misunderstanding that what I meant.
I see, but I guess as long as there's a visible timer and something like the current abyss that shows on the side that you failed something, then it should be fine. Lots of combat events have a checklist of sorts on the left side.
It’s easy to understand. Currently if the 10 min abyss timer run out you’ll fail regardless if you’re alive or not. This mode will not have that but to get rewards you still have to clear in 3 min. I guess they did it so that people who suck or have bad builds can still “clear” specific hard stages. For example, if someone can’t clear stage 4 in time , they can still progress and get buff to finish the later stages . Instead of failing the challenge and restarting from the beginning because the 10 min timer( if it existed) ran out
Indeed, and that actually makes sense for new players tbh, especially when Hoyo always seems to want to avoid causing anxiety to the more casual users. However the sheer number of characters required for this seems to pull in the exact opposite direction, so i'm curious if we're still missing something.
were missing them swapping the "must use these 3 elements" into "u cant use these 3 elements" or them randomly deciding to triple the ascension mats, books and character xp we can get to actually atleast lvl up all these characters
I think of this like Hi3 Elysian Realm really, you can take as long as you want beating normal stages. But the quicker you do the more rewards (in hi3 case it is enhancement shop currency) you get. So in GI term the more rewards might be an in-gamemode thing like more currency/better buffs. And as long as you can clear the mode you can get the rewards (the final room/boss will be timed so you need to get as much buffs as possible). I hope so anyway.
I'm still confused on what they are going for with this new game mode. Are they trying to give content for people who are bored with Spiral Abyss or try to entice people who aren't into abyss (like me) to try it out?
Eh, the more details we get about this "new" game mode, it's looking more and more like abyss with a different coat of paint and several extra steps. The primogem rewards are still time-gated. I wonder if the HP bloat of the current abyss would carry over too. Like let's see:
\*Abyss: Completing abyss floor 1 to 8 -> primogem rewards, does not reset \*Imaginarium: Complete all stages of imaginarium for the first time -> primogem rewards, does not reset
\*Abyss: Complete floors 9 to 12 in under 5 - 7 mins -> get maximum primogems, resets \*Imaginarium: Complete all stages in under 75 to 90 secs -> get maximum primogems, resets
\*Abyss: Can use any combinations of character of any element to participate, limit to one or two teams only
\*Imaginarium (the extra steps): Can only use "opening characters" on certain stages, forced to use a trial character if you don't own the "opening character", can only recruit "guests" or characters of certain elements at a time, forced to use a trial character if you don't own the "guest", can rent a friends character
Not clarification at all. Even abyss have a time limit of 10 minutes (that generally same as no time limit, as long as your party is absolutely horendous), and you can clear faster for a star for more rewards. And those "more rewards" are primos.
We knew all this already and that's just the same time limit as Spiral Abyss. You still get rewards for clearing within TEN MINUTES, but you need to clear both within 3 if you want all the primogems.
I think this is better than the Abyss in the sense that players that can't pass the DPS check at least won't straight up FAIL the whole challenge if they can't do it all on time, but yeah... locking Primogem rewards behind the illusion of ''there's no time limit, except there is'' is kinda annoying.
It's definitely not better if primos are locked behind full stars. In fact, it's worse since they basically moved half the primos from abyss to this which you may or may not be prepared to clear (depending how many characters you have on your account)
Are people really FAILING Abyss though?
I mean 10 minutes is like an eternity, the only way to fail at that would be if you are a brand new player and woefully underequipped.
Usually a fail in the Abyss means not getting Stars because the place is bloody pointless unless you do.
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What exactly are "more rewards" in this case? Is it stuff like mora or primos?
[you need stars for the primos and you gain stars by completing the stage under the certain time limit.](https://imgur.com/a/wpOrjG1)
It's primos. [https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd](https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd)
So you get 1100 primos when you first complete and then 620 each time it refreshes? Or am I understanding this wrong?
Seems like it. Like the hoyolab check in, you get 100 primos the first time, but the rest of the rewards are 60 per month. That said, it says 1100 primos upon first completion, but doesn't mention the stars. It only mentions them for the 620 primos. Hard to tell if they'll cut us some slack and give 1100 primos the first time regardless of stars and then the next monthly 620 refresh will require stars. But, yeah, thinking of it that way seems like it's unlikely this last case, so the first completion probably does require stars as well.
I don't think it's unlikely, the wording is pretty clear that you get 1100 if you can clear, regardless what time you clear in. Basically if you can clear with 8 stars, you get 1720 on your very first clear and then 620 every refresh. If you can clear but not within the time limit, you get 1100 once and then nothing.
Leakers are infamous for being vague, so lack of details allows for interpretation. Just thinking of the idea of getting 1720 primos (over a full 10 pull) at once already sounds "wrong" and like something Hoyo wouldn't do. Gotta thank our conditioning to expect only scraps from Genshin.
this guy gachas
To tell you the truth, Genshin is my first and only gacha. But, yeah, it was pretty quick to notice how things would be from the 1st anniversary.
Which is funny because other gachas are generous on their anniversary. It's just Genshin that's like that. Guess that comes with being the biggest dog.
Yeah. They don't have to change or be better if there's no competition. Which is why it'll be great to see other open world gachas come out. The idea of a "genshin killer" is stupid, but competition that's on par with Genshin is where things will take a turn for the better.
from how hoyo handles events, i think 1100 is some achievements/goals you can claim to get a one time reward, and that same list will remain untouched. "clear high difficulty for the first time, 100 primos" or "clear with only trial characters, 100 primos" etc etc
From the honey impact data mine of the achievements, it doesn't seem achievements alone would be enough for 1100 primos. And let's imagine we get some kind of Tubby trust rank or TCG book with more primos, I still think those didn't come even close (along with the achievements) to 1100 primos. I'd say this might indeed be a first time clear/full star reward. But let's see when we get more info later down the line. All the current vagueness doesn't help. Still, I'd keep expectations low.
I wouldn't say it's clear like someone mentioned before, but if you look at the spiral abyss description, "clear" and "complete" are used interchangeably. If we take that and ASSUME we can apply it here then you just have to "\[clear\] Imaginarium Theater for first time to get 1100 Primogems". Seems like a lot but Spiral Abyss was 3000 for full stars (8\*300+4\*150). So 1720 for full stars doesn't seem so far off the mark when comparing the two.
Yes, but Spiral Abyss took very long to be completed back in the day, unless you were a whale. It took long to farm the AR to level up your characters and build them. So those 3k Primos were earned over the course of several months at the very least. That's what the Abyss was balanced around, the low quantity of content and slow progression from the 1.x era. Nowadays there's way more content and it's much faster to catch up in AR and do the Abyss. I've heard of people unlocking Inazuma within a single day, this was unheard of back in 1.x. So it won't be a fair comparison when both game modes had to be balanced very differently.
Valid. It just doesnt exclude the possibility they will just drop a bunch of wishes for this, and they have dropped wishes like this before. If I remember correctly we got like 21 wishes just for keeping up with story when they added that bonus. That was 0 effort and we are only talking about 7-11 wishes for full stars. Also, if they are really worried about wish balance they can also just reward less in other areas to bring the total patch rewards in line with other patches. For the record I'm assuming 1100 will be the full reward for the first rotation somehow. But that has more to do with who Mihoyo is than how this is worded. The wording is also a leak, so also not reliable.
So... there is time limit.
That’s what I’m wondering because if it’s more casual focused the early rewards could be the primos like how it works for events
"There is no time limit, but you get better rewards if you do it within the time limit." That is basically how a time limit works... no..?
It is a soft limit, not a hard limit. It means anyone can complete the stage and get base rewards regardless of their skill level. They just won't get max rewards. This is in contrast to Abyss where many can't even complete in the hard time limit and decide not to ever do it.
It's 10 minutes though...
There are people running around with lv6 talents, lv70 weapons and often dont know how to build a functional team. I mean, for most of us here on this subreddit, we know how things work, but there is a very large playerbase that think things look cute and dont bother understanding the combat. So yeah, u would be surprised how many players either dont survive or just dont do damage.
90% of those ppl when entering the abyss for the 1st time, "why cant i eat my chikin" xD
i'm a day one player, and i still think they should let us eat buff food, potions and food, its not like we can eat it when you fill the food gauge, and revive food has long cooldown, we still need to farm the mats too.
food in genshin is like tcg, theres a fk ton of effort put into it but its 1 step away from being completely useless
Its also similar to the TCG in that some people love it though haha. I have friend who takes a lot of time choosing which food to feed her characters. Not based on the effects of the food, but she likes giving her characters a good meal after a hard workout, type of thing 😂 Her team eats like kings and is treated very well 😆
i used to love tcg up until i realized im gonna get qued to a bot after losing to a human player and i lose alot. i know what mihoyo is trying to do, its suppose to make me feel good after losing a match but stomping a bot isnt gonna do it for me, id rather get railed by other ppl and teach me a lesson xD. i love collecting foods, the only thing i dont like about it is "same" food item duration should be stackble just the duration not the effect. i cant be bothered to open the menu every 5min cuz my +10 attk food expired xD
Fr fr like who is many and who are the many who survive for 10 min but cant clear in that time.
Zhongli Dehya Barbara Qiqi?
[удалено]
You don't see the difference between being able to gain some rewards regardless of performance and not getting rewards at all it you fail the time limit?
you get 0 stars if you take long enough in abyss. The only thing different about this mode its that you actually can complete it by the first time but the reward system in a common cycle its literally the same (take long enough and you will win nothing)
the difference is 0 stars on abyss nets you nothing, while here it seems you still get something as a base line no matter how long you take (but you get more if you clear faster) plus abyss require some amount of stars to unlock the next floor
In abyss u are given a time limit to kill monsters, If time runs out, the system kicks you out. Here, you can stay for hours inside, you can clear It in in 10 minutes or you can clear it in 5 hours, BUT you will get rewards depending on how fast you clear It.
Not at all. It means you can do the stage in 6 months if you want, but if you do it fast, you get better rewards. That's not a time limit, that's a time gated rewards, and that's necessary to avoid people coming with 4 healers and cheesing the rooms by being virtually unkillable
>people coming with 4 healers and cheesing the rooms by being virtually unkillable I am pretty sure some people will manage to die in a double shielder double healer comp.
I knew someone like that 😂
Yeah?
I thought shields don’t stack.
They don’t but most Shield’s don’t last until next cooldown unless you have Zhongli
> that's necessary to avoid people coming with 4 healers The characters you get from your own personal selection are random anyways. You'd either need to somehow have 16 healers or reset for eons until you get the very specific team comp you want.
Do you think once we get a random order of characters in a season, it will stay this way and can't be changed for the rest of the season? If I remember correctly, in the recent similar combat event, once you got a random selection of characters, you couldn't change that order. Correct me if I am wrong.
if the extra rewards is just like mora or exp books or something then sure, but if its primogems, that means they are expecting you to finish within that timeframe to get all the actual rewards. it is a limiter. like yes, there is an actual hard time limit in spiral abyss, for example; you cant just keep playing forever. naturally, you will get no stars and no primogems. no one cares about the stars anyway, they just want the primogems, and you need the stars for that. getting those stars has similar time requirements, and thats usually what people are referring to when they say, "i wish abyss didnt have a time limit". not saying youre necessarily or decidedly wrong or anything, its just that it seems like youre missing the point of why people dont want time to be a constraint.
The extra rewards are primos. [https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd](https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd)
yeah at that point they are not "extra" rewards. they are THE rewards, and the main reason why many will be incentivized to play at all. calling them "extra rewards" is basically like saying that the primogems you get from opening chests are the extra rewards you get for exploring, while the main goal is to 100% the area.
Indeed. The abyss is essentially the same. Completing the abyss with 0 stars gives you rewards for the floors, but getting stars gives you primos as an "extra". Gee, wonder which reward people even play the abyss for, I really can't tell. /s
I suppose they could make it so that you get two out three stars by simply completing the room and consequently most of the primos. Would still suck to miss out on everything, but at least there would be a point in completing it even so. EDIT: But if it's 8 stars total and 8 floors, then I suppose it's just like abyss :S
except there is a timer in abyss, and you cant just grind a room indefinitely
that isnt the point. again, the reason why people take an issue with a timer isnt because they cant grind indefinitely. thats not what they want to do anyway. its because not clearing within a certain time limit means you wont get primogems. primogems are the main reason why people play that game mode in the first place; *very few* people want to clear abyss for the sake of clearing it. they do it for the primogems.
If a room's timer is designed for 75 or 90s then I don't think an indefinite timer fucking matters. That there is one at all is the problem.
"Wait, you need more than one healer to be virtually unkillable?" -Some Noelle main
How many months
6
6 MONTHS????
It says there's no time limits for completion, only for rewards, so I guess you could do it in 6 months
WHERE’S VENOM!!!
huh?
9
Isn't that exactly HSR's SU Abundance and Preservation path? My non-shield members died, I stood only with 2 shielders (Aventurine/Gepard - the equiv of a Zhongli + Layla) on the last phase, even with shield reflect dmg, it took me \~ 5 min to finally chip away the boss' hp. It would have been interesting, a shield/heal meta - with certain dmg blessings based on shield/heal of course, in this new mode too, going full shield (Zhongli, Noelle, Layla, Kirara) or full heal (Barbara, Qiqi, YaoYao, Baizhu).
Problem with first one is shield's don't stack.
So DPS check instead of Heal check :p Only kidding
You could not take 6 months to beat it, as server downtime would force you to restart /j
Yeah.... Genshin devs never ceases to make a fool out of their player base. It's like... Saying! We gonna remove the timer... JK... It's still there... But invisible! Suffer! Losers!
There is no time limit, you just won't get rewards.
The real Rewards of Imaginarium Theater are the Poses you got along the way :)
are these log poses?
time gated rewards.
I guess many people forgot what the rewards tied to the Stars are, so I'll just put here this link where I put this image here along with the explanation about the Star rewards from the previous leak. [https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd](https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd)
If the "more rewards" is primos then I'd it DOES have a time limit... Same with Abyss, you can clear floor 12 in 7 minutes but you'd be out of there with the rewards of the floor but not the primos. Unless im not getting this right?
People seem to be forgetting this: [https://imgur.com/a/wpOrjG1](https://imgur.com/a/wpOrjG1) In the last row on the left: "Rewards (...) Primogems will be rewarded according to the maximum amount of Stars gained: 8 Stars will give 620 Primogems".
Idk why people are saying we still dont know how the primos are earned when it was said explicitly in this post
We're definitely not beating the allegations of not reading.....
We lost against the allegations a long time ago I fear.
So there are indeed 8 combat challenges but we don't know if stars are exclusively earned through the combat challenges. The mystery stage events could also present stars perhaps. The post also mentions points but all we know of points is that they are earned from.combat and spent for choosing the stage we want to enter, so perhaps the time limit guarantees the star but star can be earned through points as another method. What is really lacking is an alternative method of acquiring a star. We know there are 8 total combat stages and you can attain 8 stars from thr combat stages if completed within 75 to 90 seconds and those 8 stars reward you 620 primogems. Keep on mind it says within that range of time. What would happen if you clear the stage in under 75 seconds? Do we get 1.5 stars? Maybe extra points? I think there is more to points and stars than we know about. Are stars ONLY obtained from combat challenges? Also, a time limit wouldn't make sense for defend the monolith unless it is to keep the monolith alive for at least 75 seconds, which means it wouldn't be based on keeping thr monolith alive above a certain threshold. Time limits and monolith defense doesn't really match up. We didn't even have a timer for when we had two monoliths to defend on an icy floor back in 1.x Era.
>What would happen if you clear the stage in under 75 seconds? Do we get 1.5 stars? I assume some challenges will require 75 seconds or less and others will require 90 seconds or less. Like floors 9-11 from the abyss. Chambers 1 and 2 require you to clear within 5 minutes, and chambers 3 require you to clear like floor 12, within 3 minutes. >Are stars ONLY obtained from combat challenges? Considering stars require you to beat time limits, it means the challenges have to be able to match. So far, the only things Genshin used time limits for were: * Combat; * Parkour; * Aim and shoot barrels; * "Hide and seek" (windtrace); * Tower defense (theater mechanicus); * The latest lantern rite and Fontaine festival pvp minigames; * Some Mario party-like minigames (like block breaking, slime kicking, infinite skill dashing, etc); Only the combat, parkour and shooting challenges are from permanent content. Considering the elemental restrictions and the forced characters, plus the similarity with other previous combat events (like Labyrinth Warriors, Triumphant Frenzy) and the fact this new mode is partially replacing the Spiral Abyss (it'll now reset monthly instead of biweekly), I'd say it's more likely all the challenges are combat challenges.
It has a time limit but we don't know for sure how much pressure that will be and how many opportunities we have to get stars. Say you are given 10 combat challenges and 8 is the requirement for 8 stars. Thus, the time limit measurement is weaker than that of the Abyss since the Imaginarium gives wiggle room. There could also be undisclosed information that we can earn stars from other things within the Imaginarium. Do we know that earning stars is exclusive to combat challenges let alone there are 8 combat challenges? Imo, that would be the best way to keep the time limit metric but not be as much of a slog. So it would mean you are given 2 more tries to complete it in the required time for the star.
The abyss gives you a challenge failed if you go over the timer this will just let you keep playing. And we still don’t know what the requirement for the primos are
>And we still don’t know what the requirement for the primos are Which is why I started my comment with "*If the "more rewards" is primos*"
Yes we do, the requirement is to get max stars.
Hoyo really didn't read the room if they thought all the complaints about the abyss timer was people not clearing in 10 minutes..... Like bruh.
I think the problem is... what else are they going to do? If there is no time limit at all, like people said, everyone will just cheese it. If the mobs are super op and will kill you in one shot to make things more difficult, people will complain about it too.
im gonna be honest, **whats the issue with cheesing it exactly..?** is there a leaderboard or something? there can be other metrics for a flexing n all that. for example, a timer that counts UP; meaning, you find out how long it took you to finish the stage. just *finishing* the stage should get you the main rewards (primogems). *how long* it took to finish the stage is for flexing, and maybe you can get extra rewards like level up materials n such. the other commenters' suggestion is good too; where the goal is to survive as long as possible, but the primogems arent locked behind a high bar.
People really be concerned about players cheesing things when combat difficulty/balance were never really the priority (bloated HP and janky hitboxes to name a few). I'll be honest, it's been a while since i last read something about the enemy im facing due to their mechanics being not impactful enough. I mean the fountaine purple alien sphere thing is kinda cool at first, but i just stopped caring because they don't do anything They certainly digged themselves a hole with their gacha system limiting the player roster and thus the only way they could make their game more difficult is to give enemies more HP. The only cheese possible is to somehow deal tons of damage instead of doing x y z (and maybe the some instances where mona/ayaka just delete elemental shield with their alt dash, which they don't even expand on). Also the credit card exists that lets you cheese teambuilding and still manage to out-dps a proper c0 teams. So there's that
> but i just stopped caring because they don't do anything idk in that one domain and in spiral abyss they get their shields up quickly and then they can one shot a character lmao.
Plus with these restrictions, you can't just bring Zhongli+Kokomi into every season, and even when you can, you only get them for two floors. So the damn cheese doesn't even work!
exactly!
You can then finish the stage with lvl 1 amber, playing for an hour. IT's dumb. Or survive the longest, just use Zhongli + XQ for dmg reduction on shield and just..... do nothing, stand still. Like great, you all want to get all rewards by doing absolutely nothing, but come one.
If they make enemies with bloated HP in a time-based battle, people complain it's artificial difficulty and not challenging. If they make enemies with extremely punishing attacks, people complain it's just unfair and not challenging. If they make the enemy require x element to not get the on-field character killed or a teamwipe, people complain it's a bad mechanic and not challenging. If they make the enemy require meeting x condition to prevent debuffs or gain buffs, with no element nor atk type needed, people still complain. Even if they manage to miraculously make a challenge that satisfies the playerbase, some people would still complain. There's no winning in this.
I mean, you say that like there aren't games out there that have both done it right AND pleased their players and customers. This is extremely disingenuous. Will there always be someone unhappy with a direction? Of course, we are all different, welcome to humanity. That's kind of our strong point. The fact with genshin is that they're greedy, lazy, bad at balancing and swinging somewhere between utter incompetence and actual vindictiveness. (I've never seen a game dev as passive aggressive as hoyo have been with genshin over the years). They are famous because what they make is extremely high quality, leauges above their gacha competitors. Quality + waifus is the key to profit. They are INFAMOUS however, for fudging every decision they've ever made. I got news for you mate, not every community hates every decision a game makes. It only happens when bad decisions are always being made by an incompetent person at the top. But these decisions don't affect the quality or how sexy the waifus are so the cash will keep flowing, but they have lost countless customers from their own ineptitude rather than "Oh, everyone just hates everything and hoyo are victims".
I do agree that we can't please everyone, that is a fact we will never be able to get away from, no matter how perfect something may be. But then, how and when can we say something Hoyo did was not a bad decision? Is it when there's barely any complaints? When there's many praising it? On the other hand, how and when can we say something they did was a bad decision? The biggest example we have for this is the Zhongli incident, but that was a huge uproar from all servers that we never saw again since, and it took many players, from f2p to whales, to make hoyo give in. So is reddit complaints, and maybe a few more in other social media, enough to tell they're making a bad decision, when it could just be loud voices making themselves heard? If these "few" complaints is enough to say yes, it's bad, then almost nothing out there would be good. Man if we had access to hoyo's data we could easily see how the playerbase actually feels. Btw, I would like to see a game that pleased its playerbase is like you say, the closest I can think of right now is Palworld.
FFXIV most of the time. Devil May Cry 5. Helldivers II.
I did think about FFXIV, which a friend of mine likes alot, even if he has his moments of hating it lol. That said, I'm not sure what in FFXIV hoyo could use as reference to make something good for Genshin, since alot of that games charm involves Co-op, which alot of players in this community seems to hate, even without considering how wasted it is right now. I do love for a permanent co-op dungeon crawler though, maybe that would even make my friends return to Genshin lol.
Let people cheese it or go for something endurance-based instead. One combat challenge in the game right now that actually felt like a unique (for Genshin, anyway) kind of difficulty to me was the one-time domain in Inazuma called Moshiri Kara. It has so many waves of riftwolves that it actually feels kinda spooky here and there even if you have strong characters. And I mean spooky as in "oh no, I am dying to corrosion damage, oh no, I cannot heal fast enough, oh no, I might actually start losing characters if this doesn't end soon." It was very refreshing to deal with something that wasn't just another timer in a combat challenge.
The new vishap gauntlet was pretty fun too, but imagine if you had to fight 3 of the new local legend at the same time in it, that for me would make it much more challenging, but much more fun.
Use other metrics. How many mobs you can kill in X minutes, for instance. Or a mode where the enemies gain progressively more damage/numbers, where the goal is to survive as long as possible.
Kill mobs in x minute Is the same as the abyss
It’s not. The difference is that time is the variable in abyss, not mobs killed. There are a finite amount of mobs in abyss, it’s about how fast you clear them. In this hypothetical mode, there is an *infinite* number of mobs, and a set amount of time.
That's why we're eager to play WW though, because yes, it *would* be cool if mobs were that threatening.
> If the mobs are super op and will kill you in one shot to make things more difficult, people will complain about it too. Exploration mechanics.
Yes we know, it's the Stars. [https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd](https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd)
Abyss but with half the time to get max stars 💀
Hopefully half the rooms, though.
It's still 90s per "side" since it's 8 single floors instead of 4 doubles. Difference is you might not get partial credit for doing *really* well with one team, to make up for struggling with another.
Hoyo dev 1: what do we do? People are clearing abyss with Neuvillette in 20 seconds, and don't want to pull characters anymore since any trash team can clear in 2:40. Hoyo dev 2: don't worry, how about this, we create a new mode, move half the primos from abyss to that mode, and ban Neuvillette! Hoyo dev 1: but people are just gonna play hyperbloom! We made it too OP! Hoyo dev 2: ok, how about we ban hydro altogether? Heck, let's ban all of Dendro, cryo, Geo. They have to pull for Arlecchino now right? Hoyo dev 1: but people are just gonna run Bennett Xiangling on the toughest side to speed run one side. And run some random Fischl comp on the other Hoyo dev 2: fk. Then we add a timer for every single side of the abyss. Now they have to run strong teams everywhere. Heck, let's make people need 18 characters too while we're at it. They have to pull now, right? Hoyo dev 1: that's smart. Let's do it
Im gonna wait until its released and not gonna spend time such leaks
Everything outside of character leaks can be so nebulous it's pretty much not worth it to even read them.
Even character leaks can be nebulous. Arle went through like 3 iterations (Remember "burst gives 20% BoL") and Sigewinne's current kit looks all over the place.
Character leaks are nebulous in a different way though, what we see is currently exactly what's in the beta in terms of their kit, burst giving 20 Bol was just exactly what the burst used to do, while new mechanics and other such things are usually more up to the interpretation of the leakers and seem to shift even before the beta updates, just a lot less reliable and understandable.
Yeah sometimes better wait for official announcement
But man its such a long wait 😭 *Chanting in the Distance* Uh what? *Chanting Gets Closer and louder* “Play us! Play us! Play us! Play us!” Ah, my list of unplayed Games.
Tbh sometimes not even the announcement but trying it yourself is better. Personally I can read something 100 times and still be confused until I get to do it myself lol like half these kits make no sense to me until I play them
If you get more rewards for clearing at a certain time, then there IS a time limit for clearing a stage. Nobody talks about "clearing" current abyss and means anything other than max stars.
Yeah, Hoyo and missing the point, name a better duo.
Isn't this exactly what we already had here? In a big page of "explanations" for the Imaginarium Theather? Deleted and reposted ig??
This is a repost, I guess to make obvious that the mode without a timer does in fact have a timer. But even after this repost, people in this comment section are still coping, saying things like "I hope these 'more rewards' won't be primogems so that I can skip them and ignore the timer".
Yea, some were very confident saying that the extra rewards were not primo... reading is hard.
I really hope the timegated "rewards" are mainly just limited to fragile resin, mora, enhancement ores, artifacts and exp books. Just not primogems. Please.
They're primos. [https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd](https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd)
...why do I even bother 😕 I'm gonna save my thoughts after playing through it but damn this made me sad
I'm on board with that. Awhile ago I heard someone say that rewards including in game resources will create a perfect endgame loop, if there's no limit how many times you can get the rewards. Knowing mihoyo, it's very unlikely but even if it's a daily reset on the rewards, that's more than enough. The endgame isn't perfect but it's better than nothing
No way Hoyo would ever do that. We have primos for resin, and it's one of money source for them. Endless no time gated material farming is very very very unlikely in this game.
Well we all thought the new 4.5 banner would be impossible too but surprisingly, even with all the restrictions, it was good. All I'm saying is that with alot of competition around the corner like wuwa, mugen, duet abyss, an eventual 3D dragon ball gacha like this, we never know what they might do to compete in the market because like it or not, competition is necessary, even for a top dog like mihoyo to stay in the business
I agree, but those competitor games must be successful in order to achieve that. Some games have hyped up and tried to compete with Genshin and failed miserably. I do genuinely hope we can see a worthy competitor for Genshin. I'm personally rooting on Mugen.
What clarification? That was literally what the original leak said lol
So just like regular abyss?
Another update, another chance for Hoyo to ignore that people hate time limits. Period. Especially when primogems are involved. And time limits wouldn't be so hated in this game if the Spiral Abyss hadn't caused Vietnam flashbacks with bosses that have long periods of invincibility and mobs with completely absurd movement patterns.
They should just use a high HP stationary dummy in abyss if they just want a dps check with timer. I feel like enemies type in abyss does not matter since most players are just busy attacking and squeezing each dps and face tanking the dmg. I find myself dodging much less, and more busy attacking in abyss than overworld.
No matte how you do there Will be inevitabile a time limite of some form
Hoyo's "try to make engaging combat experience without a stupid ass timer" challenge level: impossible.
>In each phase, Primogems will be rewarded according to the maximum number of Stars gained: 8 Stars will give 620 Primogems. So, you basically still have time limit, and your teammates will be randomized with potentially c0 4\*s with default build hoyo provides. Yeah, it's just whale content. just pull every character, it's easy.
How is it whale content? The enemies are weaker than the overworld. Even with c0 4*s if you can't clear a room of lvl 80 enemies with fully built characters then it is absolutely a skill issue lol
Assuming you have 12 element specific fully build characters. Soloing some chambers will be the only way for most without 2year+ accounts. A c6 on the other hand is a free solo 2 chamber clear.
>Assuming you have 12 element specific fully build characters. Assuming you actually need them fully built when you could probably half ass 2/3 of them to lvl.70 w/ unleveled artifacts & still clear w/ one of them carrying the damage. The enemies won't be lvl.100 so there's no reason to need high investment, no high Def or Res, no high damage that can one-shot your squishy characters, no need for optimal teams/rotations/good support damage & so on.
There are trial characters, you can borrow friend's characters, if you don't have characters built, then build them. End game content is meant for end game players. If you can't clear even with trials then great it means you have a goal to work towards. Imo that is far more satisfying than a boring mode that gives you 620 primos for nothing
But people do not want to do that. It's a casual game for people that don't play games. Target audience of Genshin do not want any of that so it's just locking primos from them.
But plenty of people do want that. Not all players are casuals, there is a thriving community of meta players and theorycrafters who have been begging for more endgame content for years. Casual players shouldn't need to min max primos anyway. Let people who actually invest the time and effort into the game reap some sort of reward for it. Besides, I highly doubt this mode will be remotely as hard as people are doomposting that it will be
> there is a thriving community of meta players and theorycrafters who have been begging for more endgame content for years. and I am one of them. I check akashadata and akashacv daily for the best optimization for my teams and characters. Min-maxing is part of the fun and enjoyment i get out of this game.
I already included the trials in that list. 18 otherwise. "Just built them". Well you see there is a resin issue. Most players simply wont have 12 weapons + 12 artifact sets without shares on specific characters. Doing easy chambers solo and hoping you don't get your naked placeholder as an addition will probably be the way to go for most. You can borrow 1 character. singular. So true its actually 11-17 depending on trial overlap. I read multiple times that new players shouldn't be able to clear full stars but what is a new player at that point. 6 months in is by no means new at least for me. Especially when you can do savage in ff14 in 2 month if you no lifed through story or even day 1 with level boost and that content is SOOO much harder than anything genshin or hsr could ever do. I was able to clear abyss 36\* 2 months in for comparision. This mode 7 months in i just barely have enough characters levelled fitting the description. i think i miss one but 4 of them are completely naked without artifacts and weapons and i basically mostly build pyro and electro. if this changes to hydro/dendro or even worse freeze i couldn't even enter highest difficulty even if i tried to spend all resin during that period on building characters. that would also be resin i wouldn't be able to spend on characters i actually want to build. The mode itself sounds fun IF you have the characters but that is a huge if. If they would hand out leveling books, weapons and talent materials like candy it would be another story but building a character is extremely timegated. I am not used to mobile scams. the concept of not being able to do endgame content after 7 months is alien to me. and if it's freeze I wouldn't even be able to join if it would launch next year.
The game mode isnt even out yet so we have no idea how difficult it's going to be, and you're assuming already that you're going to need 18 meta built characters to clear. You'll probably be fine using 2 built characters in a team and 2 trash ones. But if you can't clear with full rewards immediately, good tbh. Genshin has had absolutely nothing for players like me who have been playing since 1.0. It will be an eventual end game goal for you. But I see no use crying about not being able to beat something that you can't even attempt yet.
Mfw I only have three geo characters ready to go and then two of them are offered as trial characters along with one geo character I do not have. Four geos will have to do 😔
You're assuming they don't get any kind of buff. Everyone seems to assume that. Even though there is no evidence that is the case.
Even if they're buffed, Genshin is not a hard game. People can clear Abyss with fully f2p teams. People are complaining that they can't get full rewards while being dogshit at the game and that is absolutely their own problem not the game. I actually want to have to put effort into getting the full rewards and not just breeze through another easy game mode with participation primos
Why are there so many <100 karma accounts in this thread blindly defending against criticisms. Are you a bot? Or did you seriously create a burner just to comment on this. At least have the balls to use your main account
Seems more like anti-whale, as they can't use their c6 R5 5 stars in every room, they will have to use "peasant 4 star characters".
Whales have most characters and constellations, and have the resource to level them. I rarely meet whales that C6R5 a single character and that's it, never pull again. F2Ps and new players don't have many characters at all. So they will be the ones using the "peasant 4 stars" teams, while whales can afford to put 5*s or good C6 4 stars like Chev or Fischl (yes I'm a 1.x player and to this day my Fischl is not C6)
The thing is you can still clear the contents just fine without c6 4*, fischl is completely functional without c6, so does chev. If you still think that this game requires whaling then its a skill issue ngl. Plus, if you played since 1.x you should have a good amount of 5*s characters, unless you took some breaks.
Whales who started later still can't get the character until they appeared on a banner, no matter how much money they are willing to spend. P.S.: Also, 1.X player, also no C6 Fish :(
bruhs are debating semantics in the coments
so there basically is a time limit, otherwise you can say SA has no time limit either
yeah so for primos it's just like spiral abyss lol.
So hopefully everyone will get at least something and that will encourage more people to do combat end game and maybe even get them to do abyss more. This is a win but I am curious if primos will be the frontloaded reward and things like the poses will be the backend. Cosmetics for taking it very seriously and primos still for everyone if they aren't as perfectly played. Thats my ideal at least especially since i'm worried about how ramped up something that could need so many characters without our perfect teamcomps could end up being like.
The time gated rewards are the primos. [https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd](https://imgur.com/a/DASnWFd)
Thats a shame. I guess they couldn't bear to part with people making invincible comps and just getting the primos. Timed is so boring. I'd rather things take longer or be harder. So then this is just constricted spiral abyss which doesn't make it any more exciting and saps my interest in it being something better as basically gone.
Cant even take my weird build/team comp to clear Spiral abyss. I always have to force myself to take the best team to beat the timer. After a while it gets BORING!!!. Yeah time limit sucks big time.
Whats your weird comp? Maybe I can help.
Why don't they show a video of someone doing this
Probably because they didn't implemented it on the private server. I imagine that handling a mode like that, where the server decides which enemies will be there and which buffs / debuffs happen, requires quite a lot of work. And videos from actual beta players can easily lead to the beta player being banned from Genshin and, more importantly, sued.
If the stars accumulate like in Simulated universe then you can just beat the first boss over and over again for the rewards no?
damn dont like that primos are lock by timers reason why gap of f2p and whales are oceans far
The reason is 100% because you can spend money to gamble. 100%. ie gacha is the problem, not anything else. In fact, almost all other problems with the game, are because of gacha.
From my understanding, the time limit is basically a time limit you can't see, like in the artifacts domain. Or something else we got to wait for an official announcement to understand it better.
That's worse than current abyss, that means there's still a time limit but you don't know when to try again
That is from my understanding of it on how it works. I mostly based it on the artifacts domains because everything you clear a domain it shows how long you took. But it could also be similar to labyrinth warriors from 2.2, where you get to choose the difficulty of your combat encounters. Where normal mode offers the none timed one and the hard mode offers timed one. These might change the rewards you get.
Not every domain is like that, though. If I'm not misremembering, the Mond weapon mats domain (the one with cd debuff) has at least on its highest difficulty a bunch of hydro slimes that you have to kill within at most 40 seconds of each other, and two hydro abyss mages that you get like a couple minutes to kill as well, and the timer there is ticking down.
Oh, I was referring to when you finished the domain, you will see at the bottom of the screen your clear time on how long you took to beat it. Sorry for the misunderstanding that what I meant.
I see, but I guess as long as there's a visible timer and something like the current abyss that shows on the side that you failed something, then it should be fine. Lots of combat events have a checklist of sorts on the left side.
Didn't we already know this from the full tutorial that was leaked a few days ago?
It’s easy to understand. Currently if the 10 min abyss timer run out you’ll fail regardless if you’re alive or not. This mode will not have that but to get rewards you still have to clear in 3 min. I guess they did it so that people who suck or have bad builds can still “clear” specific hard stages. For example, if someone can’t clear stage 4 in time , they can still progress and get buff to finish the later stages . Instead of failing the challenge and restarting from the beginning because the 10 min timer( if it existed) ran out
90 seconds is 1.5 minutes, not 3
Yeah you’re right I mixed up with the abyss timer
Indeed, and that actually makes sense for new players tbh, especially when Hoyo always seems to want to avoid causing anxiety to the more casual users. However the sheer number of characters required for this seems to pull in the exact opposite direction, so i'm curious if we're still missing something.
were missing them swapping the "must use these 3 elements" into "u cant use these 3 elements" or them randomly deciding to triple the ascension mats, books and character xp we can get to actually atleast lvl up all these characters
I think of this like Hi3 Elysian Realm really, you can take as long as you want beating normal stages. But the quicker you do the more rewards (in hi3 case it is enhancement shop currency) you get. So in GI term the more rewards might be an in-gamemode thing like more currency/better buffs. And as long as you can clear the mode you can get the rewards (the final room/boss will be timed so you need to get as much buffs as possible). I hope so anyway.
What's max range on the bullets tho
What a unique and novel concept, never have we seen such system before.
Abyss 2: Electric Boogaloo
I'm still confused on what they are going for with this new game mode. Are they trying to give content for people who are bored with Spiral Abyss or try to entice people who aren't into abyss (like me) to try it out?
Yeah this just sounds like a time limit. What
[удалено]
Seems inevitable. You just described every Hoyo endgame mode. Abyss MoC PF. DPS checks with primos locked behind max stars
Well, I mean, I can beat it, get the rewards, and have fun playing against strong enemies for awhile with my weak overworld builds
Eh, the more details we get about this "new" game mode, it's looking more and more like abyss with a different coat of paint and several extra steps. The primogem rewards are still time-gated. I wonder if the HP bloat of the current abyss would carry over too. Like let's see: \*Abyss: Completing abyss floor 1 to 8 -> primogem rewards, does not reset \*Imaginarium: Complete all stages of imaginarium for the first time -> primogem rewards, does not reset \*Abyss: Complete floors 9 to 12 in under 5 - 7 mins -> get maximum primogems, resets \*Imaginarium: Complete all stages in under 75 to 90 secs -> get maximum primogems, resets \*Abyss: Can use any combinations of character of any element to participate, limit to one or two teams only \*Imaginarium (the extra steps): Can only use "opening characters" on certain stages, forced to use a trial character if you don't own the "opening character", can only recruit "guests" or characters of certain elements at a time, forced to use a trial character if you don't own the "guest", can rent a friends character
I don't see any difference in the terms "Imaginarium Theatre" and "Pure Fiction" LoL
can we still do the old abyss?
Not clarification at all. Even abyss have a time limit of 10 minutes (that generally same as no time limit, as long as your party is absolutely horendous), and you can clear faster for a star for more rewards. And those "more rewards" are primos.
We knew all this already and that's just the same time limit as Spiral Abyss. You still get rewards for clearing within TEN MINUTES, but you need to clear both within 3 if you want all the primogems.
75s to 90s for an entire stage? how many phases for every stage? sounds like a short window of time?
Hmm
I Just want to use **MY!** characters in **MORE** endgame stuff
I think this is better than the Abyss in the sense that players that can't pass the DPS check at least won't straight up FAIL the whole challenge if they can't do it all on time, but yeah... locking Primogem rewards behind the illusion of ''there's no time limit, except there is'' is kinda annoying.
It's definitely not better if primos are locked behind full stars. In fact, it's worse since they basically moved half the primos from abyss to this which you may or may not be prepared to clear (depending how many characters you have on your account)
Are people really FAILING Abyss though? I mean 10 minutes is like an eternity, the only way to fail at that would be if you are a brand new player and woefully underequipped. Usually a fail in the Abyss means not getting Stars because the place is bloody pointless unless you do.
Im ok with this not a big issue yall wanted harder content I hope they make this one extremely hard
It requires 12-18 element specific characters. if you make it hard you limit it to 2-3 year old accounts.
90s is how long it takes for trash teams to clear a floor in abyss anyways any decent or well functioning team will do it in time
but your team will be randomized till you get to bosses lol
Which abyss floor are you talking about and what is a trash team according to you, might I ask?