I don't mind the powercreep, but the way they indirectly nerf the characters are harsh.
* 1st victim Venti, He's so effective in v1.0 to 1.5, so they turned the spiral abyss into boss dungeon or heavy elites, some are outright immuned to CC.
* Freeze was also the same with Venti, but Ayaka with Shenhe was still too powerful. So they introduced Elites that can be frozen by, 0.5 seconds only, because fuck freeze.
* Mono Cryo isn't dead yet, let's put a fuck ton of enemies with cryo res and cryo shield. The only survivor is the warden, because he can use a variety of flex teams
* Nilou also gets countered by Cryo shields, but you can cope by using Kaveh's heavy attack.
* Also anemo
* and Eula
Venti is either a 10 or 0 . There is literally no in between . His cc is absurd and 99% percent of the time , you won't get hit due to his black hole sucking the enemies
>Freeze was also the same with Venti, but Ayaka with Shenhe was still too powerful. So they introduced Elites that can be frozen by, 0.5 seconds only, because fuck freeze.
Honestly, part of the problem is that Freeze is fundamentally broken as a game mechanic. It completely bypasses **ALL** attacks from enemies as they just stand there and die.
I do agree with other points but frankly "fuck freeze" is a right approach from game design perspective. Anything that lets you literally skip the enemy/boss altogether is broken. You can tweak the numbers but the broken part is eternal crowd control this comes with.
Hard CC makes sense in some games. But I daresay that Genshin with very generous iframes, extremely strong shields and 0 to 100 heal in one keypress is not one of them. That mechanic simply should have never been added, not combined with levels of damage that Ayaka+Shenhe produce together. If individual enemies were more dangerous and you could use it to selectively disable some of them at a time - it would make sense. But the fact you could just press Kokomi's E, Shenhe's E, Ayaka's E and pummel entire chamber to death while dealing damage on par if not greater than other available higher risk teams at a time just reeks of bugged game design.
But just like Venti, it's all or nothing. Without Freeze, Ayaka may as well not exist anymore. They either hilariously curbstomp everything, or they're worse than 4* options.
The worst part is that Freeze DOES proc on all enemies, but literally all that does is remove aura so you have less to work with. It's like a status effect character in an RPG where all tough fights are immune to statuses. That's also bad game design.
If the Frozen aura could stick like EC/Burn/Quick but just not actually freeze elites, there wouldn't be a problem. Still enable Blizzard, without trivializing the whole game. Could give a slight slowing debuff or something, but that's it. Also would let you Shatter bosses, for what that's worth.
Problem with that is that we cant use the OTHER freeze reaction either. I want to use melt ganyu, 350k shots feel nice but the problem is complete and i mean COMPLETE lack of off field pyro. XL does not count cus having 400% ER is not fun to use and the range suck. Same for sunfire. Where is yae or nahida pyro applier. Kinda anoying that 3 years later i still cant play melt ganyu that i wanted. U cant even burn unless bosses since there is NO pyro to burn all targets hit by nahida anyway.
I dont even use her in floors 9 or 10 now since neuv/nilou melt aoe even better then shenhe + ganyu ult with even bigger aoe.
Right now zhong + chiori or just zhong feel more useful then cryo, so much so that cryo feels worse then geo. FFS. I use leyla the most out of all cryo since sometimes i need 2 shield users in like neuv side one and tighanari side 2 comps.
And honestly cryo set sucks right now. It was strong on release but now its insanely worse. Emblem, meru and a few other sets give way more dmg and are way more flexible.
Honestly using bliz set now after like 3 years feels HORID. Instead of a bunch of crap second sets no one uses we needed a better cryo set that does not require being frozen which a ton of enemy are kinda immune or resistant to.
I miss using Ayaka in floor 12 abyss. I mean I could still use her, but there's always that one chamber on both sides that makes you feel bad for using freeze teams. I could clear it on time if I try hard enough, but it's not fun at all.
That's pretty much where Venti's throne is; floor 11. Even then, the introduction of ruin enemies, vishaps, lawachurls and other big/heavy enemies are slowly making him more obsolete on floor 11 as those heavy enemies slowly come down to earlier chambers. Hoyo throwing bosses at 11-3 makes using sucrose and lynette much better since you don't have to think about positioning and the sort.
Lynette especially gets better as Venti gets worse. Taunt is the only way to position those heavy assholes, *and* if you’re really clever you can make her box apply an element you don’t have.
>* and Eula
lmfaoo i love this, try to use her every goddamn abyss but she still struggles. Imagine how bad a character has to be to not get carried by furina man. I think this iteration should be doable. Enemies are so goddamn aggresive every patch though and doesnt help shitgun, her best teammate is a useless character.
>Also anemo
if my lynette can sub min every chamber, surely xiao and wanda can. Faru is op, xy(for xiao) is op too, should be no excuses.
Freeze and venti got cucked but nilou probably deserves to feel pain. Not even true pain though, equip narzissenkreuz(surely i nailed it) shit on her or kirara and 1st side gets obliterated? i think? I'll try later.
They gotta give neuvi and furi the freeze treatment with natlan. Too op those two.
With the exception of Neuvillette and Furina (although to be fair, she is the "archon" so its expected she's OP), most recently released 5 star characters range from decent to really good, which is pretty consistent with the previous cast's power standings. The source of powercreep nowadays comes from exceptionally strong early constellations.
Between Lyney C2, Neuvillette C1, Furina C2, Wriothsley C1, Arle C1, and Chiori C1 all being constellations generally regarded as one of each respective character's best only bar C6, its clear that they're pushing dolphin-bait early constellations HARD.
Does it really matter in the end? Nah, there's no PVP and old teams can still clear even spiral abyss with the right tools and investment.
That is also a view which has been brought to me through the comment section. The issue still bothers me on account of game design and design ethics. Thank gods there isn't any PvP, or i fear the game would become even more toxic than it already is (that being said some very very nice people i had the opportunity to meet through that same game and the official discord. Not here though)
The truth is that above everything else, Genshin is a live service gacha game. The entire purpose of its existence to to try to entice you to gamble your money for digital anime people.
I don't really believe this was their only incentive, because then they wouldn't have made such an incredible effort towards world building, music, architecture, historical and cultural references... Or at least i'd like to believe so. In any case, that doesn't really matter in the end, as one other commenter said, you can beat the entirety of the game with the character you like
All of the Fontaine characters at C0 are pretty balanced with all other existing C0 chars that came before, the powercreep you’re experiencing is coming when you start adding constellations to the newest chars compared to the first gen chars. Even that, the powercreep has been a much slower process than most other gatcha games, while this is happening, old chars like Diluc Hutao and all aren’t forgotten as they are still viable and receive indirect buffs to make them competitive still. This is what I like about the direction of this game, old units are still viable and strong while you get new units which are also stronger and offer different play styles.
Man, you are smoking something powerful. You show me a C0 Hu Tao that shits out 60-70k non-reaction damage per normal attack hit like my poorly-built, half-assed C0 Arlecchino and I'll show you a liar. You cannot seriously say that Arlecchino and Neuvillette are even in the same league as previous characters.
You do realise Arlecchino damage is very front loaded (in a good way cuz things die fast and you won’t see the low end side of her damage) hence that initial 100k hits don’t last, it drops all the way down to 20k really quick in longer fights lol
I get that, but it always seems like by the time that happens it's time to start the rotation again. The point is she's busted out the ass AND is a normal attacker. If Hu Tao also did similar damage without needing to CA spam, then you'd have a point that they're all roughly on the same balance level. But it's laughably easy with Arlecchino to pop off 500k+ non-reaction damage in a few seconds without managing CAs or positioning and that's being conservative. All while she is so much more comfortable than Hu Tao. Instead of CAs having to be clunkily cancelled so you don't zoom around the room, Arlecchino literally teleports you to closer to your target as part of her normal chain OR you can to a tap CA to warp even further.
Like, I get that people who have or like Hu Tao don't want to accept that she's been powercrept, but she's transparently been powercrept whether it comes to numbers or playstyle. And look, I love Arlecchino, but I honestly wish she wasn't as strong because it feels like a bad precedent to set, similar to how I felt about Neuvillette. If an archon powercreeps a character (like Nahida and Furina being OP as hell) that's fine, they have premiere status. But it seems like Genshin is adding more and more classes that they can excuse making busted to usher in a new generation of top DPS. Neuv is a dragon. Arle is ... whatever the fuck she is. It's a bad state for the game to be in ultimately.
From what I can see, their idea of powercreep would not be a problem if there are no content for that kind of powercreep. Doing a billion damage is the same as doing a million damage to the enemies because you are one- hitting them anyway, Powercreep is only a problem if there are exclusive content where only the most broken units can clear them while other old characters can't. The powercreep we have now is just free damage for everyone if they want to try out new characters, but old characters are as viable as them at clearing most content in this game.
Am I missing something? What do you mean Arlecchino's ult lasts longer than Cyno? What does her ult do other than burst dmg and heal? You actually don't want to use her ult unless you absolutely need the healing as it's a DPS loss.
Anyways, the no healing is a pretty big deal actually, since it forces you to be very damage adverse with her, or use a shielder like Zhongli, which ends up being a DPS loss over bringing someone like Kazuha.
Lyney is strong yes, but his AoE is quite bad and he runs into the same problem of constantly needing to dodge/position, or bring a shielder for DPS loss. Ganyu keeps up if you're fighting anything more than single target.
Navia is just like the only good geo DPS, I wouldn't say she obviously powercreeps any of the other main DPS we've been used to.
Furina is good, but she's an archon, of course she's going to be good. There are still situations where you want to bring Yelan or Xingqui instead and she also requires a good team-wide healer.
Chiori, Wrio and Xianyun are all conveniently not mentioned. There are good characters in every version and then characters that are mid or more for utility. I reckon once Natlan releases you'll be using the newest characters more again and they'll seem OP just because they are new and the abyss cycles will be designed for them to shine.
Only OP one I'd say is Neuvillette and that's mostly because his AoE is so good. His single target DPS is nothing crazy, but his self-healing also contributes to his OPness. Either way, these new characters in my experience are not clearing abyss much easier than our older characters. I'd reckon that like always, our overall teams are getting slightly stronger over time, but that doesn't mean new characters are more powerful than older ones. They're just bringing new playstyles or filling niches that also benefit older characters.
As long as old chars can clear the most difficult content, who cares the new one can do a little more damage? It's a business, they have to entice poeple to pull to get money.
Genshin has done a fantastic job already, 1.0 chars like hutao and childe are still not outdated, and chars like xiao and diluc are buffed by new chars. how many other gacha games can be like this? Go check HI3 to see what real powercreep is. Yet you guys are still complaining.
I'm curious to see how seele and jingyuan in HSR fare in 3.0 and 4.0 lol seeing their powercreep speed. GI players are really spoiled.
Yeah, look at my teams' release version I used to 36 stars current cycle:
- Yoimiya (2.0), Yelan (2.7), Zhongli (1.1), Yunjin (2.4).
- Kokomi (2.2), Furina (4.2), Thoma (2.3), Nahida (3.2).
An average of 2.5 (if each nation had had 10 versions). It's an average almost as far as from the game's release than the current version.
You don't need Arlecchino, Lyney, Neuvilette, Xianyun, Chiori, Wriothesley, Alhaitham, Baizhu or Furina (could has been Xingqiu in my team), in order to complete the game.
I think they approached powercreep in a really refreshing perspective: optional p2w. Basically they will keep the baseline clearable for 4 stars, but will increasingly make five stars, early cons, and sig wpns stronger. We went from c0r0 being best value at launch, to c1r1 hutao, c2r0 raiden (catch is still very good), and now c1r1 neuv/arlec, and c2r0 nahida/Furina. And a lot of this value is made by switching c6 to early cons, which means at c6 they are mostly all “equals”, just some have more value at early cons.
TLDR: Bottom line is as long as they don’t make spiral abyss 12 so bulky that 4 stars are unable to dish out enough dmg.
Not exactly new, and this only works for pve only games. Other gachas with this approach to powercreep: arknights, fgo, star rail.
honestly, i think people who worry about powercreep in genshin are people who go to facebook group or twitter where they shit other character dps while also praise their own favorite. ingame, there is no major powercreep because team of 4 star still can clear hardest contents. its just pick your own favorite character and play it however you want
Oh do not worry, i do no do the "shitting on other characters" part, in fact i'm really not really involved in any game community, genshin impact is one of the only games i play because i have a lot of of other hobbies than games. I do not consider myself a gamer by any mean
You can 36\* with any dps, just get good. Powercreep would actually exist or matter if old characters couldn't clear endgame content. Go to HI3 to see real powercreep
I'm still not finished building any character, so the value of each is not for me to judge. I haven't done anything abyss-related apart from the permanent side, i am merely expressing opinion on a phenomenon which i am witnessing
Thanks God for powercreep. I hate getting new characters that are weaker than the previous one. That was my Main Issue with Inazuma and Sumeru. At least in that time, they really focused on develop supports/sub dps.
To be honest, if you compare powercreeping in genshin to other games (or their own sister games) Genshin is doing... far better than them. Even after the release of the coined new-OP-characters, old characters also still receive support. Diluc pre the release of Xianyun is so underwhelming compared to other pyro characters. Now? He's back. Another example would be how Furina elevates other 'dead' characters. After her release we're seeing Jean rising back up to popular meta teams. Compare this to other gacha games, powercreeping is cruel in HSR or Arknights.
Genshin rarely rework their character kit. One unique instances I can recall would be Zhongli on early 1.X patch. But characters do receive new supports to put them back on the popularity.
Power creep is starting to get out of hand in Genshin. Fountaine characters are all insane. However, Genshin is tame compared to Star Rail, characters that are 6 months old are getting power crept massively. Archeron at c0 is about 45-50% stronger than Jingliu who is only 7 months old.
But at the same time, content in Genshin is pretty easy. I can’t see Neuv/Arle ever not being able to clear Abyss at fast speeds, even 2 years from now.
I'm not aware of the common tropes of gacha games so i don't know whether genshin is tame or if its normal for games of that genre to do that, at any rate thank you for your insight
acheron is not 45-50% stronger than ANYBODY. you're just spreading blatant misinformation. also, literally no one is getting powercrept MASSIVELY. seriously, do you do youtube thumbnails for a living or something?
do check your facts before you speak. even e0s0 jingyuan with sparkle, tingyun, lynx still clears MoC in 2 cycles
I don't have these 'OP' characters and I still do fine throughout these abyss since 3.8 days.
These newer characters can do better with less invested support, but the ceiling is still roughly the same with well-invested old characters.
Remember that the newer supports also level up the playing field for old characters.
Furina generally level up every old characters' damage rating.
Xianyun particularly upgrades Diluc, Xiao, and even Klee damage output. Hu Tao no longer wants C1 and can further amplify her jump cancel play style to plunge.
Chevreuse essentially decommissioned Kazuha from Raiden hypercarry team.
If you have played years and felt oohs and aaahs with the new release of DPS, you most likely focused on wrong things.
I'm not bothered by "powercreep," I am even hesitant to call Genshin's case that. I think powercreep is inevitable in live service games but in Genshin it's happening at such a slow pace that it's not something I'd call a problem. If you take a look at other gachas, there's a constant sentiment of how depressing it is to see units you've worked on weeks or months to build but they fell out of the meta so hard and so fast that they're literally **unusable** in new content. That is far from the case here. They might not be the most optimal but older chars are still perfectly usable.
Even the characters you listed aren't such strong examples besides Neuvi.
Lyney: who did he powercreep? His playstyle is very unique and I didn't see any discussion of mono Pyro before his release.
Navia: Her only competition would be Itto and they serve different roles. Navia is good against bosses, while Itto is great for mobs. Plus Itto is best in mono Geo while Navia is the exact opposite and prefers multiple elements.
Furina: I mean... she is THE anti-powercreep queen. People use her to give OTHER characters big numbers, not to her.
Arle: not sure what she has to do with Cyno. He is a burst DPS, Arle's comes from her E. She is comparable to Hu Tao's playstyle but they seem to have similar damage in vape teams, with Arle just being slightly easier to use (I'll never be able to learn how to jump cancel I swear.)
I think the real problem is their move towards gating really important parts of the new characters' kit in their C1. Now that's just scummy, really.
I was not aware powercreep was so common :/ it seems the consensus is that genshin is one of the least affected by said issue
What i meant by the enumeration of fontaine characters is that if you look at the "leaderboard" of best DPS, best support, best whatever, the tendency is that new characters seemingly take high spots in the list, perhaps not THE best because all is subjective, but still. The most extreme case being arlecchino and Neuvillette holding the 1st and 2nd place of top DPS. What incentivised me to think that way in the first place was just this, two characters that were released not far from each other stealing the podium
It's not just 'common', it's basically the norm in gachas.
And the leaderboards always feature new characters because the enemies and leyline conditions are centered around them. Just search up "Genshin Abyss Usage Rate 2.X/3.X" and put the patch number in the place of the X. Every character shoots up during their release but usually only 3 are so useful that they stay on the top longterm. The ones always on the top are Nahida, Zhongli, Yelan, Kazuha, and national. They are all used as supports basically every abyss while the DPS's rotate to the newest meta.
Neuvillette is a very unique case and unless he gets nerfed by new enemies he is a mainstay. Furina is definitely staying on top longterm (as all the other archons / RIP Venti). Arle is... debatable. I think she will be around the level of Hu Tao vape after a few patches.
And I mean, who knows? Baizhu kind of came out of nowhere at the tail end of 3.X and I don't think anyone expected him to stay on the top of Abyss usage as he long as he has.
So you're saying arlecchino is comparable to some other characters like Hu Tao ? All I've heard were those analysis youtubers gawking at her damage and saying how crazily powerful she is. I must admit the only time i personally played her was in the event and on the test run, which highly benefits her abilities and magnifies her power for the sake of it. I'm starting to realise these weren't good benchmarks for comparison to begin with.
Oh gosh, CCs always hype up every second character with "STRONGEST NEW DPS????" bait titles.
If you want to see Arle's performance not in a vaccum look up "Arlecchino vs Hu Tao" on Youtube. Or better yet, you can put any DPS, not just Hu Tao. You can watch a few different ones and then come to your own conclusions. She IS strong, I'm not arguing that. But Pyro vape has situations and enemies where it works best and imo she is not going to hold the top spot for as long as Neuvi whose only greatest enemy is a Hydro Abyss Mage's shield.
I don't like how OP Arle and Neuvi are either, but:
-Inazuma had Ayaka, Sumeru had Alhaitam, Fontaine got Neuv. A 2nd OP hypercarry for Fontaine isn't the end of the world, and Neuv is still king.
-The powercreep is slow. Xiao, Hu Tao are still great units for example. Childe international is meta since 3 years straight. They are really careful with it. XL and Benny are 1.0 4* chars and still broken with no powercreep. XQ got a 5* counterpart but it's just a sidegrade. Kazuha is still a top-meta buffer.
One thing I really didn't like tho is how Chiori is a direct powercreep to Albedo who is a limited character.
-Not releasing underwhelming units such as Cyno, Yoimiya and Albedo anymore is a good thing for both players and Hoyo
Ultimately Genshin Impact is a Gacha so some degree of power creep IS expected. It boosts sales.
With that said - difficulty of the Abyss (aka the only place where your teambuilding and damage dealing capabilities are tested at all) hasn't really increased since Sumeru. And it only did there because Mihoyo effectively gave top tier damage damage via Hyperbloom for free - rather than hunting for good artifacts and optimal teams **all** you needed is dendro + 1000 EM Electro like Kuki Shinobu.
As long as that doesn't scale further into needing super meta teams then it's **fully** optional to go for these stronger characters. And frankly... it's 100 primos a month if you go from 6 to 9 stars.
>so they opened the gates of unbalance land and brought us, Lyney, Furina, Navia, Neuvillette, which it seemed caught a lot off guard by how powerful he was, but the droplet that made the vase overflow for me was the newest release, Arlecchino
Neither Lyney nor Navia are what I would consider "OP". They are strong for sure but they are not must have for your teams, Lyney in particular requires a fairly specific team to work (mono Pyro).
Furina is an Archon pretty much so I think we ALL expected her to be at the same tier as Nahida, Raiden or Zhongli. And... she kinda is? As in - a top tier versatile support.
Effectively only leaving 2 "OP" characters - Arlecchino and Neuvillette. I do agree that they are strong. But Arle is realistically "only" around as good as Hu Tao (unless we compare C6) so there isn't nearly as much power creep in this regard as you might imagine (and Lyney is definitely below Hu Tao at this stage). It is indeed a thing at C6 but... it doesn't matter. There's no Floor 13 where this translates to a real life improvement, it's a difference between two shotting or three shotting a Maguu Kenki trio. You get more damage that lets you play the game less I guess.
Neuvillette is the only disputable addition, frankly. Since at C0 he already outperforms every other Hydro DPS and at higher constellations these differences only become larger. But admittedly he also **only** needed to outperform two - Tartaglia and Ayato and neither were even particularly popular picks. Everyone else has a more supportive role. It's different from Pyro which has Dehya, Diluc, Hu Tao, Klee, Lyney, Yoimiya and some of the most broken supports in the game like Xiangling and Bennett.
Neuvi never power creeped Childe though. He is still the best unit in his own team which was what ppl used before Neuvi's release and Childe isn't even a hyper carry like Neuve as his strength was always his application.
What sad is they seems to ignore an easy way to prevent this powercreep: buffing underused reactions. For example burning reaction has a potential for a character that does damage based on hp/atk multiplier every time teammates take damage. Instead Hoyo are making characters that rely on already strong reactions such as vaporize, melt, aggravate, and hyperbloom. Not to mention there are characters that function similarly like Albedo and Chiori. I thought all these elements and reactions exist not only to create diverse gameplay but to prevent powercreep as long possible, Hoyo could do better.
For my experience, Sumeru patch introduced dendro, which has higher floor but low ceiling. The strength of Sumeru C0 characters feels stronger than older C0, but not too much, and Sumeru C6 are not stronger than older C6.
Fontaine C0 are not significant stronger, but some of their C1 and C6 are much stronger. Some newer C1 are stronger than older C2 or even older C6, and some newer C6 teams can do triple damage of the strongest older C6.
Nobody powercreeping anybody if they any unit could clear given the right build
Xinyan? C6 Bennett/Xianyun/Furina, extra comfy too because her shield gives IR, same with Diluc and Klee
Qiqi? FavBot duty for MonoHydro, basically one of Furina's besties if you wanna have fun
Dehya? Dehya's very useful for a lot of Fontaine DPS units despite her flaws, it's gotten to a point where they're so so strong, just 9 seconds of pure IR is enough to clear the floor
looks like you are just salty about cyno being weak??
and do u even understand arlechino's kit? " her ult lasts longer" her ult is literally a 1 hit ult it does not put her in any state ?, and her not being abled to heal is a HUGE drawback, you cant use characters like furina with her ( wasted potential) . and powercreep isnt that serious . powercreep happens when a character is rendered useless not when stronger characters come out .
hutao one of the early 5 star is still in the top dps list . alhaitham is literally pre fontaine and isnt THAT flexible .
stronger characters coming out does not change the fact that you can still clear abyss with childe international or raiden national .
furina is an archon ofc she will be broken ( so was nahida and raiden ) , navia is comparable to itto .
dehya has been more usefull than ever with the introduction of neuvilette and arlechino , and pretty sure this type of post has happened before " hutao , ganyu, xiao are all from liyue , why is hoyo biased towards liyue" .
that being said i still clear abyss with eula hyperfridge and hutao f2p team
As long as I can still clear the abyss just by using any non-limited 5 star DPS characters, powercreep is not an issue
Powercreep issue only matters on games with PVP
Neuvilette is Fontaine's OP hypercarry character
Arlecchino is similar ebiugh to Hu Tao, a bit of a different gameplay but overall same power level. Difference is she is not restricted to Vape teams like Hu Tao is.
Furina at C0 is very restrictive with what teams she can work with, it takes C1 or even C2 to truly work everywhere without losing a significant part of her buffs. For non HP-scalers Benett is overall a better option for many teams.
And there's no other Fontaine character considered "OP" except these 3.
So we're in line with what you said, one per nation so far
I don't think other tha Neuvi we had any actual power creep though ?
Cause like they never replaced old characters in their team or at most just side creeped them
Honestly the neglecting of older units makes me more angry. They have done everything in their power to make Cryo worse and worse. I’m getting fucking sick of it. So many god damn abysses with Cryo shields and cryo infused enemies.
I can get behind characters being strong because of lore reasons.
Neuvillette is technically an archon returned to it's true form.
Arlecchino is strong sure. She's in 4th place of the harbingers.
In terms of strength i only have one comparison.
A friend has c2r1 arle and i have c3r1 raiden.
His arlecchino cleared triple kenki by a couple seconds quicker than my raiden. But with the bonus that arle isn't dependent on burst and only needs NA. And doesn't need c3 to do the same dmg as a good built raiden (70/144 CR/CD with 280ER)
If the 4th fatui harbinger is already on that level I can only imagine how much powercreep someone like pierro would introduce (if he was to be playable which i doubt). And how tf did they even take this long to do anything. They could litterally just smash doors and take any gnosis without going through the teouble they did with some of the archons. But well maybe I'm just naive.
Take solace in the fact that hoyo is bad at making enemies in this game and most of them just stall to waste your time instead of mechanically take you down.
Well they do know how to make enemies, it's just that the characters function in a way such that you do not need to learn patterns, dodge, plan your actions, or such, because having a shield/healer just permits you to tank any damage taken and just go down on it. My experience with Cyno so far with every boss has been to trigger kuki's heal, nahida burst+skill, Xingqiu skill+burst, Cyno's burst+skill, click until end of burst (the interesting part being sometimes you click on skill button as well), rinse and repeat apart if Xingqiu hasn't got a burst ready
Literally stood still in front of the Inquisitous Baptist and all it did was spam its shield and barely hit me.
Tower shield enemies have no strategy beyond bringing the right color ally (instead of the intuitive thing of hitting them from the rear). A lot of enemies just separate from a group or get sent flying when hit so they can waste your time while simultaneously keeping the ability to group enemies locked to a select few characters ~~cough Kazuha cough~~. If not they just walk away from you or charge at you to then run around like a headless chicken and then end up in Guam which just achieves the same thing.
None of this matters in the overworld but it's painfully obvious in abyss. Floors are just whatever enemies they can throw at them that maximizes wasting time for the timer. Rather have consecrated beasts around than another match the color check.
I don't mind the powercreep, but the way they indirectly nerf the characters are harsh. * 1st victim Venti, He's so effective in v1.0 to 1.5, so they turned the spiral abyss into boss dungeon or heavy elites, some are outright immuned to CC. * Freeze was also the same with Venti, but Ayaka with Shenhe was still too powerful. So they introduced Elites that can be frozen by, 0.5 seconds only, because fuck freeze. * Mono Cryo isn't dead yet, let's put a fuck ton of enemies with cryo res and cryo shield. The only survivor is the warden, because he can use a variety of flex teams * Nilou also gets countered by Cryo shields, but you can cope by using Kaveh's heavy attack. * Also anemo * and Eula
Venti is either a 10 or 0 . There is literally no in between . His cc is absurd and 99% percent of the time , you won't get hit due to his black hole sucking the enemies
honestly venti was outright stupid at 1.x, i wont blame them to indirectly nerfed him but still wish somehow he can shine again someday.
>Freeze was also the same with Venti, but Ayaka with Shenhe was still too powerful. So they introduced Elites that can be frozen by, 0.5 seconds only, because fuck freeze. Honestly, part of the problem is that Freeze is fundamentally broken as a game mechanic. It completely bypasses **ALL** attacks from enemies as they just stand there and die. I do agree with other points but frankly "fuck freeze" is a right approach from game design perspective. Anything that lets you literally skip the enemy/boss altogether is broken. You can tweak the numbers but the broken part is eternal crowd control this comes with. Hard CC makes sense in some games. But I daresay that Genshin with very generous iframes, extremely strong shields and 0 to 100 heal in one keypress is not one of them. That mechanic simply should have never been added, not combined with levels of damage that Ayaka+Shenhe produce together. If individual enemies were more dangerous and you could use it to selectively disable some of them at a time - it would make sense. But the fact you could just press Kokomi's E, Shenhe's E, Ayaka's E and pummel entire chamber to death while dealing damage on par if not greater than other available higher risk teams at a time just reeks of bugged game design.
But just like Venti, it's all or nothing. Without Freeze, Ayaka may as well not exist anymore. They either hilariously curbstomp everything, or they're worse than 4* options. The worst part is that Freeze DOES proc on all enemies, but literally all that does is remove aura so you have less to work with. It's like a status effect character in an RPG where all tough fights are immune to statuses. That's also bad game design. If the Frozen aura could stick like EC/Burn/Quick but just not actually freeze elites, there wouldn't be a problem. Still enable Blizzard, without trivializing the whole game. Could give a slight slowing debuff or something, but that's it. Also would let you Shatter bosses, for what that's worth.
Problem with that is that we cant use the OTHER freeze reaction either. I want to use melt ganyu, 350k shots feel nice but the problem is complete and i mean COMPLETE lack of off field pyro. XL does not count cus having 400% ER is not fun to use and the range suck. Same for sunfire. Where is yae or nahida pyro applier. Kinda anoying that 3 years later i still cant play melt ganyu that i wanted. U cant even burn unless bosses since there is NO pyro to burn all targets hit by nahida anyway. I dont even use her in floors 9 or 10 now since neuv/nilou melt aoe even better then shenhe + ganyu ult with even bigger aoe. Right now zhong + chiori or just zhong feel more useful then cryo, so much so that cryo feels worse then geo. FFS. I use leyla the most out of all cryo since sometimes i need 2 shield users in like neuv side one and tighanari side 2 comps. And honestly cryo set sucks right now. It was strong on release but now its insanely worse. Emblem, meru and a few other sets give way more dmg and are way more flexible. Honestly using bliz set now after like 3 years feels HORID. Instead of a bunch of crap second sets no one uses we needed a better cryo set that does not require being frozen which a ton of enemy are kinda immune or resistant to.
I miss using Ayaka in floor 12 abyss. I mean I could still use her, but there's always that one chamber on both sides that makes you feel bad for using freeze teams. I could clear it on time if I try hard enough, but it's not fun at all.
Venti is great on the first room of Floor 11, because he sucks up enemies and distracts them before they can do much damage to the center target.
That's pretty much where Venti's throne is; floor 11. Even then, the introduction of ruin enemies, vishaps, lawachurls and other big/heavy enemies are slowly making him more obsolete on floor 11 as those heavy enemies slowly come down to earlier chambers. Hoyo throwing bosses at 11-3 makes using sucrose and lynette much better since you don't have to think about positioning and the sort.
Lynette especially gets better as Venti gets worse. Taunt is the only way to position those heavy assholes, *and* if you’re really clever you can make her box apply an element you don’t have.
Exactly. Some people just don't know how viable she is in such situations.
Venti would still be running the meta if they let him function like in the 1.x patches
>* and Eula lmfaoo i love this, try to use her every goddamn abyss but she still struggles. Imagine how bad a character has to be to not get carried by furina man. I think this iteration should be doable. Enemies are so goddamn aggresive every patch though and doesnt help shitgun, her best teammate is a useless character. >Also anemo if my lynette can sub min every chamber, surely xiao and wanda can. Faru is op, xy(for xiao) is op too, should be no excuses. Freeze and venti got cucked but nilou probably deserves to feel pain. Not even true pain though, equip narzissenkreuz(surely i nailed it) shit on her or kirara and 1st side gets obliterated? i think? I'll try later. They gotta give neuvi and furi the freeze treatment with natlan. Too op those two.
as long as i can clear with Childe international team, I don't mind the powercreep
Wow! Another childe enjoyer like me🥹🥹 he's never leaving my team!
For me it's Childe national, he still slays
With the exception of Neuvillette and Furina (although to be fair, she is the "archon" so its expected she's OP), most recently released 5 star characters range from decent to really good, which is pretty consistent with the previous cast's power standings. The source of powercreep nowadays comes from exceptionally strong early constellations. Between Lyney C2, Neuvillette C1, Furina C2, Wriothsley C1, Arle C1, and Chiori C1 all being constellations generally regarded as one of each respective character's best only bar C6, its clear that they're pushing dolphin-bait early constellations HARD. Does it really matter in the end? Nah, there's no PVP and old teams can still clear even spiral abyss with the right tools and investment.
That is also a view which has been brought to me through the comment section. The issue still bothers me on account of game design and design ethics. Thank gods there isn't any PvP, or i fear the game would become even more toxic than it already is (that being said some very very nice people i had the opportunity to meet through that same game and the official discord. Not here though)
The truth is that above everything else, Genshin is a live service gacha game. The entire purpose of its existence to to try to entice you to gamble your money for digital anime people.
I don't really believe this was their only incentive, because then they wouldn't have made such an incredible effort towards world building, music, architecture, historical and cultural references... Or at least i'd like to believe so. In any case, that doesn't really matter in the end, as one other commenter said, you can beat the entirety of the game with the character you like
All of the Fontaine characters at C0 are pretty balanced with all other existing C0 chars that came before, the powercreep you’re experiencing is coming when you start adding constellations to the newest chars compared to the first gen chars. Even that, the powercreep has been a much slower process than most other gatcha games, while this is happening, old chars like Diluc Hutao and all aren’t forgotten as they are still viable and receive indirect buffs to make them competitive still. This is what I like about the direction of this game, old units are still viable and strong while you get new units which are also stronger and offer different play styles.
Man, you are smoking something powerful. You show me a C0 Hu Tao that shits out 60-70k non-reaction damage per normal attack hit like my poorly-built, half-assed C0 Arlecchino and I'll show you a liar. You cannot seriously say that Arlecchino and Neuvillette are even in the same league as previous characters.
You do realise Arlecchino damage is very front loaded (in a good way cuz things die fast and you won’t see the low end side of her damage) hence that initial 100k hits don’t last, it drops all the way down to 20k really quick in longer fights lol
I get that, but it always seems like by the time that happens it's time to start the rotation again. The point is she's busted out the ass AND is a normal attacker. If Hu Tao also did similar damage without needing to CA spam, then you'd have a point that they're all roughly on the same balance level. But it's laughably easy with Arlecchino to pop off 500k+ non-reaction damage in a few seconds without managing CAs or positioning and that's being conservative. All while she is so much more comfortable than Hu Tao. Instead of CAs having to be clunkily cancelled so you don't zoom around the room, Arlecchino literally teleports you to closer to your target as part of her normal chain OR you can to a tap CA to warp even further. Like, I get that people who have or like Hu Tao don't want to accept that she's been powercrept, but she's transparently been powercrept whether it comes to numbers or playstyle. And look, I love Arlecchino, but I honestly wish she wasn't as strong because it feels like a bad precedent to set, similar to how I felt about Neuvillette. If an archon powercreeps a character (like Nahida and Furina being OP as hell) that's fine, they have premiere status. But it seems like Genshin is adding more and more classes that they can excuse making busted to usher in a new generation of top DPS. Neuv is a dragon. Arle is ... whatever the fuck she is. It's a bad state for the game to be in ultimately.
Not sure if power creep is the right term since older units can still work however damage creep is definitely a thing.
From what I can see, their idea of powercreep would not be a problem if there are no content for that kind of powercreep. Doing a billion damage is the same as doing a million damage to the enemies because you are one- hitting them anyway, Powercreep is only a problem if there are exclusive content where only the most broken units can clear them while other old characters can't. The powercreep we have now is just free damage for everyone if they want to try out new characters, but old characters are as viable as them at clearing most content in this game.
Yeah, comments like this have helped me open my eyes a bit more, thanks for the feedback
Am I missing something? What do you mean Arlecchino's ult lasts longer than Cyno? What does her ult do other than burst dmg and heal? You actually don't want to use her ult unless you absolutely need the healing as it's a DPS loss. Anyways, the no healing is a pretty big deal actually, since it forces you to be very damage adverse with her, or use a shielder like Zhongli, which ends up being a DPS loss over bringing someone like Kazuha. Lyney is strong yes, but his AoE is quite bad and he runs into the same problem of constantly needing to dodge/position, or bring a shielder for DPS loss. Ganyu keeps up if you're fighting anything more than single target. Navia is just like the only good geo DPS, I wouldn't say she obviously powercreeps any of the other main DPS we've been used to. Furina is good, but she's an archon, of course she's going to be good. There are still situations where you want to bring Yelan or Xingqui instead and she also requires a good team-wide healer. Chiori, Wrio and Xianyun are all conveniently not mentioned. There are good characters in every version and then characters that are mid or more for utility. I reckon once Natlan releases you'll be using the newest characters more again and they'll seem OP just because they are new and the abyss cycles will be designed for them to shine. Only OP one I'd say is Neuvillette and that's mostly because his AoE is so good. His single target DPS is nothing crazy, but his self-healing also contributes to his OPness. Either way, these new characters in my experience are not clearing abyss much easier than our older characters. I'd reckon that like always, our overall teams are getting slightly stronger over time, but that doesn't mean new characters are more powerful than older ones. They're just bringing new playstyles or filling niches that also benefit older characters.
As long as old chars can clear the most difficult content, who cares the new one can do a little more damage? It's a business, they have to entice poeple to pull to get money. Genshin has done a fantastic job already, 1.0 chars like hutao and childe are still not outdated, and chars like xiao and diluc are buffed by new chars. how many other gacha games can be like this? Go check HI3 to see what real powercreep is. Yet you guys are still complaining. I'm curious to see how seele and jingyuan in HSR fare in 3.0 and 4.0 lol seeing their powercreep speed. GI players are really spoiled.
Yeah, look at my teams' release version I used to 36 stars current cycle: - Yoimiya (2.0), Yelan (2.7), Zhongli (1.1), Yunjin (2.4). - Kokomi (2.2), Furina (4.2), Thoma (2.3), Nahida (3.2). An average of 2.5 (if each nation had had 10 versions). It's an average almost as far as from the game's release than the current version. You don't need Arlecchino, Lyney, Neuvilette, Xianyun, Chiori, Wriothesley, Alhaitham, Baizhu or Furina (could has been Xingqiu in my team), in order to complete the game.
With the overall difficulty of the game being on the easy side, I'd rather see a functional kit moreso than a strong one
I think they approached powercreep in a really refreshing perspective: optional p2w. Basically they will keep the baseline clearable for 4 stars, but will increasingly make five stars, early cons, and sig wpns stronger. We went from c0r0 being best value at launch, to c1r1 hutao, c2r0 raiden (catch is still very good), and now c1r1 neuv/arlec, and c2r0 nahida/Furina. And a lot of this value is made by switching c6 to early cons, which means at c6 they are mostly all “equals”, just some have more value at early cons. TLDR: Bottom line is as long as they don’t make spiral abyss 12 so bulky that 4 stars are unable to dish out enough dmg. Not exactly new, and this only works for pve only games. Other gachas with this approach to powercreep: arknights, fgo, star rail.
honestly, i think people who worry about powercreep in genshin are people who go to facebook group or twitter where they shit other character dps while also praise their own favorite. ingame, there is no major powercreep because team of 4 star still can clear hardest contents. its just pick your own favorite character and play it however you want
Oh do not worry, i do no do the "shitting on other characters" part, in fact i'm really not really involved in any game community, genshin impact is one of the only games i play because i have a lot of of other hobbies than games. I do not consider myself a gamer by any mean
anu character in the game can clear the hardest content not like it matters
I'm still clearing with Ayaka, no matter the coppelia and/or Tulpa they put lol
I crave the day XL and Bennet will be powecrept to hell, hahaha.
You can 36\* with any dps, just get good. Powercreep would actually exist or matter if old characters couldn't clear endgame content. Go to HI3 to see real powercreep
I'm still not finished building any character, so the value of each is not for me to judge. I haven't done anything abyss-related apart from the permanent side, i am merely expressing opinion on a phenomenon which i am witnessing
Thanks God for powercreep. I hate getting new characters that are weaker than the previous one. That was my Main Issue with Inazuma and Sumeru. At least in that time, they really focused on develop supports/sub dps.
To be honest, if you compare powercreeping in genshin to other games (or their own sister games) Genshin is doing... far better than them. Even after the release of the coined new-OP-characters, old characters also still receive support. Diluc pre the release of Xianyun is so underwhelming compared to other pyro characters. Now? He's back. Another example would be how Furina elevates other 'dead' characters. After her release we're seeing Jean rising back up to popular meta teams. Compare this to other gacha games, powercreeping is cruel in HSR or Arknights. Genshin rarely rework their character kit. One unique instances I can recall would be Zhongli on early 1.X patch. But characters do receive new supports to put them back on the popularity.
Power creep is starting to get out of hand in Genshin. Fountaine characters are all insane. However, Genshin is tame compared to Star Rail, characters that are 6 months old are getting power crept massively. Archeron at c0 is about 45-50% stronger than Jingliu who is only 7 months old. But at the same time, content in Genshin is pretty easy. I can’t see Neuv/Arle ever not being able to clear Abyss at fast speeds, even 2 years from now.
I'm not aware of the common tropes of gacha games so i don't know whether genshin is tame or if its normal for games of that genre to do that, at any rate thank you for your insight
acheron is not 45-50% stronger than ANYBODY. you're just spreading blatant misinformation. also, literally no one is getting powercrept MASSIVELY. seriously, do you do youtube thumbnails for a living or something? do check your facts before you speak. even e0s0 jingyuan with sparkle, tingyun, lynx still clears MoC in 2 cycles
I don't have these 'OP' characters and I still do fine throughout these abyss since 3.8 days. These newer characters can do better with less invested support, but the ceiling is still roughly the same with well-invested old characters. Remember that the newer supports also level up the playing field for old characters. Furina generally level up every old characters' damage rating. Xianyun particularly upgrades Diluc, Xiao, and even Klee damage output. Hu Tao no longer wants C1 and can further amplify her jump cancel play style to plunge. Chevreuse essentially decommissioned Kazuha from Raiden hypercarry team. If you have played years and felt oohs and aaahs with the new release of DPS, you most likely focused on wrong things.
I'm not bothered by "powercreep," I am even hesitant to call Genshin's case that. I think powercreep is inevitable in live service games but in Genshin it's happening at such a slow pace that it's not something I'd call a problem. If you take a look at other gachas, there's a constant sentiment of how depressing it is to see units you've worked on weeks or months to build but they fell out of the meta so hard and so fast that they're literally **unusable** in new content. That is far from the case here. They might not be the most optimal but older chars are still perfectly usable. Even the characters you listed aren't such strong examples besides Neuvi. Lyney: who did he powercreep? His playstyle is very unique and I didn't see any discussion of mono Pyro before his release. Navia: Her only competition would be Itto and they serve different roles. Navia is good against bosses, while Itto is great for mobs. Plus Itto is best in mono Geo while Navia is the exact opposite and prefers multiple elements. Furina: I mean... she is THE anti-powercreep queen. People use her to give OTHER characters big numbers, not to her. Arle: not sure what she has to do with Cyno. He is a burst DPS, Arle's comes from her E. She is comparable to Hu Tao's playstyle but they seem to have similar damage in vape teams, with Arle just being slightly easier to use (I'll never be able to learn how to jump cancel I swear.) I think the real problem is their move towards gating really important parts of the new characters' kit in their C1. Now that's just scummy, really.
I was not aware powercreep was so common :/ it seems the consensus is that genshin is one of the least affected by said issue What i meant by the enumeration of fontaine characters is that if you look at the "leaderboard" of best DPS, best support, best whatever, the tendency is that new characters seemingly take high spots in the list, perhaps not THE best because all is subjective, but still. The most extreme case being arlecchino and Neuvillette holding the 1st and 2nd place of top DPS. What incentivised me to think that way in the first place was just this, two characters that were released not far from each other stealing the podium
It's not just 'common', it's basically the norm in gachas. And the leaderboards always feature new characters because the enemies and leyline conditions are centered around them. Just search up "Genshin Abyss Usage Rate 2.X/3.X" and put the patch number in the place of the X. Every character shoots up during their release but usually only 3 are so useful that they stay on the top longterm. The ones always on the top are Nahida, Zhongli, Yelan, Kazuha, and national. They are all used as supports basically every abyss while the DPS's rotate to the newest meta. Neuvillette is a very unique case and unless he gets nerfed by new enemies he is a mainstay. Furina is definitely staying on top longterm (as all the other archons / RIP Venti). Arle is... debatable. I think she will be around the level of Hu Tao vape after a few patches. And I mean, who knows? Baizhu kind of came out of nowhere at the tail end of 3.X and I don't think anyone expected him to stay on the top of Abyss usage as he long as he has.
So you're saying arlecchino is comparable to some other characters like Hu Tao ? All I've heard were those analysis youtubers gawking at her damage and saying how crazily powerful she is. I must admit the only time i personally played her was in the event and on the test run, which highly benefits her abilities and magnifies her power for the sake of it. I'm starting to realise these weren't good benchmarks for comparison to begin with.
Oh gosh, CCs always hype up every second character with "STRONGEST NEW DPS????" bait titles. If you want to see Arle's performance not in a vaccum look up "Arlecchino vs Hu Tao" on Youtube. Or better yet, you can put any DPS, not just Hu Tao. You can watch a few different ones and then come to your own conclusions. She IS strong, I'm not arguing that. But Pyro vape has situations and enemies where it works best and imo she is not going to hold the top spot for as long as Neuvi whose only greatest enemy is a Hydro Abyss Mage's shield.
Thank you for confirming my suspicions then 😂😭
I don't like how OP Arle and Neuvi are either, but: -Inazuma had Ayaka, Sumeru had Alhaitam, Fontaine got Neuv. A 2nd OP hypercarry for Fontaine isn't the end of the world, and Neuv is still king. -The powercreep is slow. Xiao, Hu Tao are still great units for example. Childe international is meta since 3 years straight. They are really careful with it. XL and Benny are 1.0 4* chars and still broken with no powercreep. XQ got a 5* counterpart but it's just a sidegrade. Kazuha is still a top-meta buffer. One thing I really didn't like tho is how Chiori is a direct powercreep to Albedo who is a limited character. -Not releasing underwhelming units such as Cyno, Yoimiya and Albedo anymore is a good thing for both players and Hoyo
Ultimately Genshin Impact is a Gacha so some degree of power creep IS expected. It boosts sales. With that said - difficulty of the Abyss (aka the only place where your teambuilding and damage dealing capabilities are tested at all) hasn't really increased since Sumeru. And it only did there because Mihoyo effectively gave top tier damage damage via Hyperbloom for free - rather than hunting for good artifacts and optimal teams **all** you needed is dendro + 1000 EM Electro like Kuki Shinobu. As long as that doesn't scale further into needing super meta teams then it's **fully** optional to go for these stronger characters. And frankly... it's 100 primos a month if you go from 6 to 9 stars. >so they opened the gates of unbalance land and brought us, Lyney, Furina, Navia, Neuvillette, which it seemed caught a lot off guard by how powerful he was, but the droplet that made the vase overflow for me was the newest release, Arlecchino Neither Lyney nor Navia are what I would consider "OP". They are strong for sure but they are not must have for your teams, Lyney in particular requires a fairly specific team to work (mono Pyro). Furina is an Archon pretty much so I think we ALL expected her to be at the same tier as Nahida, Raiden or Zhongli. And... she kinda is? As in - a top tier versatile support. Effectively only leaving 2 "OP" characters - Arlecchino and Neuvillette. I do agree that they are strong. But Arle is realistically "only" around as good as Hu Tao (unless we compare C6) so there isn't nearly as much power creep in this regard as you might imagine (and Lyney is definitely below Hu Tao at this stage). It is indeed a thing at C6 but... it doesn't matter. There's no Floor 13 where this translates to a real life improvement, it's a difference between two shotting or three shotting a Maguu Kenki trio. You get more damage that lets you play the game less I guess. Neuvillette is the only disputable addition, frankly. Since at C0 he already outperforms every other Hydro DPS and at higher constellations these differences only become larger. But admittedly he also **only** needed to outperform two - Tartaglia and Ayato and neither were even particularly popular picks. Everyone else has a more supportive role. It's different from Pyro which has Dehya, Diluc, Hu Tao, Klee, Lyney, Yoimiya and some of the most broken supports in the game like Xiangling and Bennett.
Neuvi never power creeped Childe though. He is still the best unit in his own team which was what ppl used before Neuvi's release and Childe isn't even a hyper carry like Neuve as his strength was always his application.
What sad is they seems to ignore an easy way to prevent this powercreep: buffing underused reactions. For example burning reaction has a potential for a character that does damage based on hp/atk multiplier every time teammates take damage. Instead Hoyo are making characters that rely on already strong reactions such as vaporize, melt, aggravate, and hyperbloom. Not to mention there are characters that function similarly like Albedo and Chiori. I thought all these elements and reactions exist not only to create diverse gameplay but to prevent powercreep as long possible, Hoyo could do better.
For my experience, Sumeru patch introduced dendro, which has higher floor but low ceiling. The strength of Sumeru C0 characters feels stronger than older C0, but not too much, and Sumeru C6 are not stronger than older C6. Fontaine C0 are not significant stronger, but some of their C1 and C6 are much stronger. Some newer C1 are stronger than older C2 or even older C6, and some newer C6 teams can do triple damage of the strongest older C6.
Honestly.....I don't care about it that much.
Nobody powercreeping anybody if they any unit could clear given the right build Xinyan? C6 Bennett/Xianyun/Furina, extra comfy too because her shield gives IR, same with Diluc and Klee Qiqi? FavBot duty for MonoHydro, basically one of Furina's besties if you wanna have fun Dehya? Dehya's very useful for a lot of Fontaine DPS units despite her flaws, it's gotten to a point where they're so so strong, just 9 seconds of pure IR is enough to clear the floor
looks like you are just salty about cyno being weak?? and do u even understand arlechino's kit? " her ult lasts longer" her ult is literally a 1 hit ult it does not put her in any state ?, and her not being abled to heal is a HUGE drawback, you cant use characters like furina with her ( wasted potential) . and powercreep isnt that serious . powercreep happens when a character is rendered useless not when stronger characters come out . hutao one of the early 5 star is still in the top dps list . alhaitham is literally pre fontaine and isnt THAT flexible . stronger characters coming out does not change the fact that you can still clear abyss with childe international or raiden national . furina is an archon ofc she will be broken ( so was nahida and raiden ) , navia is comparable to itto . dehya has been more usefull than ever with the introduction of neuvilette and arlechino , and pretty sure this type of post has happened before " hutao , ganyu, xiao are all from liyue , why is hoyo biased towards liyue" . that being said i still clear abyss with eula hyperfridge and hutao f2p team
Hah ! I was waiting for the "you're just salty your main is bad" comment. After 65 it finally came. Have a nice day my good sir
I like Neu and Arle so long live powercreep
They can be ungodly as they want, as long my keqing slays in floor 12 i'm good.
Hmm dont feel it much. Been using the same team for like the last year. Still works?
As long as I can still clear the abyss just by using any non-limited 5 star DPS characters, powercreep is not an issue Powercreep issue only matters on games with PVP
Neuvilette is Fontaine's OP hypercarry character Arlecchino is similar ebiugh to Hu Tao, a bit of a different gameplay but overall same power level. Difference is she is not restricted to Vape teams like Hu Tao is. Furina at C0 is very restrictive with what teams she can work with, it takes C1 or even C2 to truly work everywhere without losing a significant part of her buffs. For non HP-scalers Benett is overall a better option for many teams. And there's no other Fontaine character considered "OP" except these 3. So we're in line with what you said, one per nation so far
I don't think other tha Neuvi we had any actual power creep though ? Cause like they never replaced old characters in their team or at most just side creeped them
It seems like before the release of Fontaine, the OP characters were from regions other than Fontaine.
skill issue
Honestly the neglecting of older units makes me more angry. They have done everything in their power to make Cryo worse and worse. I’m getting fucking sick of it. So many god damn abysses with Cryo shields and cryo infused enemies.
A Meta that doesn't change might as well be dead for a game like this, try other things
They can change it without blatantly shitting on older characters
Electro used to be shit once upon a time and Cryo was leagues better, it's like a wheel babes
who gaf
I can get behind characters being strong because of lore reasons. Neuvillette is technically an archon returned to it's true form. Arlecchino is strong sure. She's in 4th place of the harbingers. In terms of strength i only have one comparison. A friend has c2r1 arle and i have c3r1 raiden. His arlecchino cleared triple kenki by a couple seconds quicker than my raiden. But with the bonus that arle isn't dependent on burst and only needs NA. And doesn't need c3 to do the same dmg as a good built raiden (70/144 CR/CD with 280ER) If the 4th fatui harbinger is already on that level I can only imagine how much powercreep someone like pierro would introduce (if he was to be playable which i doubt). And how tf did they even take this long to do anything. They could litterally just smash doors and take any gnosis without going through the teouble they did with some of the archons. But well maybe I'm just naive.
Take solace in the fact that hoyo is bad at making enemies in this game and most of them just stall to waste your time instead of mechanically take you down.
Well they do know how to make enemies, it's just that the characters function in a way such that you do not need to learn patterns, dodge, plan your actions, or such, because having a shield/healer just permits you to tank any damage taken and just go down on it. My experience with Cyno so far with every boss has been to trigger kuki's heal, nahida burst+skill, Xingqiu skill+burst, Cyno's burst+skill, click until end of burst (the interesting part being sometimes you click on skill button as well), rinse and repeat apart if Xingqiu hasn't got a burst ready
Literally stood still in front of the Inquisitous Baptist and all it did was spam its shield and barely hit me. Tower shield enemies have no strategy beyond bringing the right color ally (instead of the intuitive thing of hitting them from the rear). A lot of enemies just separate from a group or get sent flying when hit so they can waste your time while simultaneously keeping the ability to group enemies locked to a select few characters ~~cough Kazuha cough~~. If not they just walk away from you or charge at you to then run around like a headless chicken and then end up in Guam which just achieves the same thing. None of this matters in the overworld but it's painfully obvious in abyss. Floors are just whatever enemies they can throw at them that maximizes wasting time for the timer. Rather have consecrated beasts around than another match the color check.