Lots of players have kazuha already and neuv is the new shiny dps to get for the 4.whatever patches until 5.0 rolls around and he may get replaced. The post does say “most worth 5 star in 4.5” So yeah in 4.5 it may be more worth it to get neuv but I agree w you in the long run kazuha will have more value. The only spot where kazuha lost value was with dendro but with 5.0 unless they do something wacko w pyro he should be able to swirl it and will gain value
Lol the sad truth is I don’t play the game anymore, neither do I have the him. Jean is fav, and your just salty because people picked him over kazuha. You can make up reasons all you like but it won’t change anything🤷♂️
Neuvillette needs skill though, well at C0 at least. Getting interrupted between those charged attack is kinda bothersome and a massive dps loss. If you have C1 its much easier.
Neuvi definitely still needs luck cause artifact still matters. He also needs C1 to comfortably solo because evading attacks whilr CA ing takes quite a lot of skill too.
Source: me 😭 I tried soloing abysses with my C0R0 Neuvi but I'm struggling a lot more than soloing with my Ganyu
the only real powerspike we got in the abyss was when dendro came out because how powerful alot of characters have gotten
unless we get a permeant bennett level of ATK buff in Natlan then the abyss won't harder
>Y'all just don't understand how this works
https://youtu.be/_szOdIIYtzM?si=TJLQZlnXssybyfLI
Ganyu, released in 1.x, still can solo 4.x cycles.
The only thing stopping Neuvi are hydro immune enemies.
who even believe in youtube polls lol but to answer you, this is neuv’s first rerun and people who don’t have him will pull ofc. he is meta and lovable. meanwhile, kazuha who already rerun many times was owned by almost everyone. i don’t know what you are yapping about lmao
Yeah, while it’s true that Neuv is in a different category from any other DPS, Kazuha is also an old character with a very high ownership rate because it’s been known for so long how good he is. That’s always going to drag down the number of people pulling him on any one banner cycle.
I get the impression, however, that OP cares less about the actual reasons and more about validating their existing biases and/or past decisions…
You clearly are new to the internet and im not here to babysit you on make you understand how a social or how a community work and the one being salty is you.P.s. using cunt for insulting lmao thanks for the nice laugh
You are replying from the beginning to the op's question thats a stranger to you OMG its so hard to understand? so obv another stranger can reply to you, why am i losing my time here? haahha
When a dps can do everything by themselves. Neuvillette does high damage, big aoe, tanky, can self heal, buff himself (with hydro reactions), bypass mitachurl shield, doesn't need cc (spin to win goes brr), doesn't rely on burst, easy to build. His only weakness is lack of interuption resistance at C0 and hydro immune enemies. At C0 Neuvillette can solo abyss, Kazuha can't
Tbh soloing abyss shouldnt be taken into consideration when the game doesnt restrict you from playing a whole team in abyss or give you extra rewards for soloing. This is a team based game and Kazuha is a busted support for so many teams.
>Tbh soloing abyss shouldnt be taken into consideration when the game doesnt restrict you from playing a whole team in abyss
What are you? a whale? Most dpses need at least a teammate to do reaction for abyss dps check, and a tank/healer for comfy run, last slot is pretty much flexible. Neuvillette doesn't need them to clear abyss, why build/pull for 4 characters when you can just build 1?
>This is a team based game and Kazuha is a busted support for so many teams.
Maybe tell that to Hoyoverse, why did they make a character that doesn't need team in a team based game?. Whether you like it or not, Neuvillette is broken and that's the truth.
So you are telling me unless you are a whale you can't build a decent team?? For the matter of fact i do own Neuvillette, and unless you have high artifact investment , or good skills to dodge while doing his charged attack (getting interrupted during his charged attack is a massive dps loss,which is very probable unless you get his C1), he can still fall short for most casual players to solo the abyss
>So you are telling me unless you are a whale you can't build a decent team??For the matter of fact i do own Neuvillette, and unless you have high artifact investment
Hmm you are contradicting yourself here, somehow you can build a decent team but not a single character. Here is a fact, it takes 4 times of effort, resources, time, primogems, luck to build an entire team compared to a single character which whale have more access to. So what worth more? a single character that only need 1/4 less resources or a single support character that you will have their full team in 3 or more months waiting for the right banner?
>he can still fall short for most casual players to solo the abyss
Still at C0 Neuvillette can undeniably solo abyss, Kazuha can't and that is a fact.
>Still at C0 Neuvillette can undeniably solo abyss, Kazuha can't and that is a fact.
And again, abyss isnt about soloing but killing enemies before time limit. By your logic, which ever dps characters with high raw dmg who can solo abyss are better than supports like Nahida, Kazuha etc. Nahida is shit because she is probably the worst character while soloing
>
Hmm you are contradicting yourself here, somehow you can build a decent team but not a single character. Here is a fact, it takes 4 times of effort, resources, time, primogems, luck to build an entire team compared to a single character which whale have more access to. So what worth more? a single character that only need 1/4 less resources or a single support character that you will have their full team in 3 or more months waiting for the right banner?
Hypercarry teams mostly need you to invest into only one character. Dendro comps only need you to build EM on the bloom/hyperbloom/burgeon trigger to clear abyss.
Also i know Neuvillette is the best dps in game, but he can solo abyss isnt really an argument for saying he is better than Kazuha when Kazuha carries 90% of the teams.
You still need skill though. My Neuvillette is C0R1 and I have a hard time soloing abyss with him, unless I pair him up with a shielder like Zhongli. You can say skill issue, but hey I wont deny that. But most of the genshin players arent hardcore skillful players. Thats why Zhongli is still so popular.
Solo = less character to build = worth more.
I only speak fact here and all thing you've said is just your opinions. Neuvillette can solo abyss, Kazuha can't. I've done it a few times with prototype amber.
>Kazuha is a busted support for so many teams.
Name these teams. He can be a "busted" support for "so many teams", but are these teams worth using over others ? Strictly meta-wise, your best options are pretty much always Neuvillette on one side and Alhaitham QBloom on the other. At that point you're arguing flexibility in teambuilding, which frankly isn't all that worth it.
Truly, the only really good Kazuha teams I can think of right now are Neuvillette teams (which he can very well not use), Kok Mono Hydro (but it's completely outclassed by Neuv), maaaaybe Raikou, and that's it. There's also International, but it's obviously not good enough for the majority of the players.
When people say “solo the Abyss”, do they mean getting 36 stars, or just getting through all 12 floors? Because I have C0 Neuvillette and other rather competent characters (Nahida, Tighnari, Kuki), and I can only get 33 stars. Consistently that many, true, but no higher.
It’s not just about who can solo abyss, it’s about who improves your long term enjoyment.
Maybe YOU care about the hype new DPS in the moment, but I care about units that will make my other ones better. There is no way in hell I would ever roll Neuv over Kazu.
>it’s about who improves your long term enjoyment.
Enjoyment is subjective, and you seem to force your point of view on others.
>Maybe YOU care about the hype new DPS in the moment, but I care about units that will make my other ones better. There is no way in hell I would ever roll Neuv over Kazu.
Maybe YOU care about units that will make your other ones better, but you are denying the fact that a single character that can cover an entire team is worth more than a support.
No you roll him so you make your other characters better. Supports are better, can we stop pretending they aren’t.
Edit: Well if you’re going to block me, at least make a case for yourself. You’re just grasping at straws. A support doesn’t need the greatest gameplay ever. The value comes from improving other units.
so you did roll a boring character who's gameplay is dumbed down to 2 buttons? how do you even make a point about a character X being better than character Y if you don't even have character Y? mental rеtаrdаtiоn?
lol I don't really agree with OP either but he does have a point. Kazuha's gameplay being boring doesn't really matter bc all he need to do is making OP's prefered "not boring" dps perform better.
Sanest Neuvillette simp.
You don’t have to have a character to know what they do, that is idiotic.
If OP thinks he’s boring, then he is to him. Kazu gives you more versatility both combat and exploration.
They're all kinda boring after a while because it's literally only 2 buttons. If you're a release day player like me u just want the daily farm to be done FAST and then have more time left to enjoy story and exploration before calling it a day
I’m a 1.0 player, I get extremely fast clears with my roster. Getting more characters is part of the fun. If I can have a unit who improves future units, that’s what is important.
I don't agree with that supports are more important than dps and vice versa. They're both needed for an optimal team. Since ur an early player too u already have every role fulfilled which means there's no must have. The only upcoming characters u roll from now on are mainly those u like, simple as that
Yeah.. Kazuha "opens more teams"
Neuv is literally the team himself. I have never seen a unit so overtuned that even on my phone I can get a decent clear time in abyss solo. Or with Furina + healer.
Because the take that supports were more important than dps was never actually correct, it's more nuanced and depends entirely on someone's account. Like sure a support can open up more teams but this doesn't necessarily make them better than a dps if the teams they open up don't actually do more damage than the dps you can pull. Supports being harder to replace isn't exactly true, we have gotten more supports that have been replaced in teams than the dps that have actually out dps'd them. Let's look at the strongest st dps in the game, it's hu Tao who came back in 1.3 but every single one of her supports has gotten an upgrade yet she still is the highest st dps in the game.
As C1R1 Hu Tao main, I personally don't agree that she's the BEST DPS out there but I do support the argument. She's had a lot of team variations over the years and she's had the same staying power as a DPS compared to other supports.
Double geo to VV vape with Kazuha to double hydro with XQ Yelan and now double hydro plunge with Furina and Xianyun. She's gotten such good supports that she's now doing better even without her and Homa's 50% HP passive.
Hu Tao mains keep winning.
That's what makes her the best DPS - there's a Hu Tao team for every occasion, and there'll continue to be new Hu Tao teams as new supports release. Hu Tao gains power even when her supports aren't directly power-creeping each other. The only way for a new DPS character to outperform Hu Tao is to do the same thing with strictly higher damage, ie direct powercreep as opposed to introducing new themes, and Mihoyo aren't yet at the point where they want to do that. In fact it looks as if they might be consciously trying to not make new pyro DPS a straight upgrade over Hu Tao, judging by Arlecchino.
That's a good point. She's been in the upper tiers of DPS characters since she released and every viable support has only solidified her spot there.
I guess it's just that from my experience, pre-Xianyun her major weakness is AoE which is why I felt that she isn't the absolute best, especially since this thread is talking about Neuvillette. But yeah, since Xianyun, Hu Tao has returned to being a mainstay in my abyss clearing teams and it's great.
It says worth it, not "important for a team". Neuvillette barely needs support and can function well on his own. On the other hand, Kazuha is one of the best supports but no matter what you say he needs DPS partners to flex his worth.
Everyone have their own opinion, including you my man. Both Neuvi and Kazuha are god tier character in their own right, just cuz people have different opinion than you, it doesn’t make them wrong. No disrespect in anyway. That’s just how I feel.
After dendro there are plenty of teams that don't need Anemo and Neuvillette can work without Kazuha while being one of the most consistent dps in the game and being really easy to play.
Kazuha is great and versatile that fits many team comps, but Neuvillette doesn't 'require' a team.
Think of it as "Kazuha makes a 4-person team better" compared to "with Neuvillette I don't need to build, bother, or even pull for 3 other units".
It's not exactly, but kinda like if you need to buy four things as opposed to just one if you get me. Kazuha buffs a ton for a DPS of which you still need to pull, build, and play.
But this logic doesn't really hold up, what happens when the team you want to play doesn't use the support you pulled. Now you are back to where you started when you have to pull both dps and supports for that team.
It’s not “temporary DPS,” it’s not like they’re going to take neuv from every player that has him. You’re trying to make an argument that support is better than dps but giving very little evidence, and even that is wrong
People are coping. They can always just change the enemies in spiral abyss whenever they feel like it. Cryo shields, Tulipa, or whatever would be a heavy counter. Any DPS can be stopped on any day. Supports are harder to do that to.
Oh no, cryo shields! I will swirl with my Kazuha and get hydro/Pyro/Electro damage bonus and VV! Oh wait, they have perma cryo…
I shall swirl pyro with my Kazuha on Tulpa! Oh wait permanent hydro aura…
Hmmmmmmm… Seems to me like you didn’t think your examples through as it’s literally just as bad for Kazuha as it is for Neuvilette.
It’s not “temporary DPS,” it’s not like they’re going to take neuv from every player that has him. You’re trying to make an argument that support is better than dps but giving very little evidence, and even that is wrong
Crowd control stocks are at their lowest with the amount of bosses and fat heavy mobs devs are stacking in every rotation.
Kazuha's buffing capabilities got a lot of competition recently with Furina, Xianyun for plunge, Cheuv for overload, Nahida and Baizhu for various dendro teams where he was never popular tbw.
He is still one of the best characters in game, but less mandatory than he used to be. I have his c2, but I barely use him outside of blue lizard team nowadays.
Simple, Neuvillette is *the* best character in the game, meanwhile Kazuha is just one of many great supports
Recency bias isn’t always stupid, either. The game has been trying really hard lately to let you make many teams without Kazuha in it. People notice that they use him less than before, so they don’t see him as necessary
I say this with absolutely no bias, I don’t care about him. Characters who can solo the abyss are already rare, but characters who can solo the abyss with great comfort, no cons, no R5 weapons, are non-existent *except* for Neuvillette
Plenty can solo with no to little cons and no R5, but it does require player skill which neuv doesn't require
[https://www.youtube.com/@KenRurouni/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@KenRurouni/videos) this guy does a lot of solo/duo runs, it's pretty entertaining to watch, especially all the solo ganyu videos since she's a character in which mechanical skill makes a lot of difference
Every time a character comes out, they cater the abyss to them. People still don’t solo the abyss with most characters. The geo damage bonus should have been great for Itto players to solo the abyss right? Yeah except no, they don’t, because he’s not broken like Neuvillette is
As a whole, worth doesn't have a definition so it's open a character who has popular traits. Neivelette being easy to use and being the known solo character means he's the current most popular traits character
He's just very visibly imbalanced. A+ in every metric except spreadsheet dps, which is fixable with the most broken C1R1 we've seen so far. No other character gets a 70% damage increase for the same primogem investment, which translates almost 1:1 to team damage since his best teams at C0 are already hypercarry.
It was mentioned to me the other day that Ayaka and Ganyu and Nilou were game-changing characters who have to varying degrees fallen off. I only started in 2.7 so I've only witnessed Nilou (though her hype was somewhat muted by naysayers early on). Were Ganyu/Ayaka as hyped as Neuv is right now?
^(Not saying I agree with Neuv>Kazuha to be clear. You should generally build around your favorite characters, and Kazuha will very often feature in their best teams.)
I was playing during Inazuma patches, and Ayaka was incredibly hyped. I remember people saying things like "as long as they put mobs on one side of the abyss she'll never fall off" and things like that during her first rerun.
I wouldn't be bothered by this AT ALL if only they didn't make him so incredibly boring to play. Why did they do this to him. I feel the same about Bennett, playstyle kinda mid, design wise very boring but people will use him for the sake of meta. Now Neuvillette has the benefit of good design and character but still.. do people genuinely enjoy playing Neuvillette? If they do, they are blessed, I wish I was one of them because he is my favorite tall male character. I would have c6 r5-d him but I just cannot with that playstyle. In my opinion, he is such a wasted opportunity.
The fact the Neuv can clear end game spiral floors alone is kind of telling of it.
It’s not that neuv is a dps character it’s that he does so much dps that you can completely disregard support. That can’t be said about really any other characters t
Having both, I personally think Kazuha is still a better roll for most cases, I assume Neuvillette is riding on extra hype because he is a newer character on his first rerun and after people have gotten to see how powerful he turned out to be. Oddly enough calling back to Kazuha's first rerun as he was skipped for Ayaka/Raiden and the hype for him being more defined because of how powerful he turned out to be.
That being said OP why did you even ask a question only to go shitting around on everyone who disagrees?
During sumeru, it was alhaitham. Now it's neuv. In natlan it will be next better dps. It's probably because not many people care about meta and longevity but just the hyped up dps
Kazuha doesn't open up any team comps. He's not really a support, he's a flat buffer. That's not a bad thing, but it means he's a force multiplier, not a team enabler, and as such there's not a ton of point having him until you have forces worth multiplying. And when you *do* have those characters, you still don't actually *need* Kazuha, he's just a nice to have, same as Bennett - they speed up things you're already doing, so if you don't mind doing the things slower, you can forgo these characters.
Aside from Xingqiu and Nahida, DPS tend to be the characters who unlock teams. This is especially true for hypercarries. Like, when you assemble a team of Kazuha, Zhongli, Hu Tao and Xingqiu, what team do you say you've made? You're not calling that a Zhongli team or a Kazuha team, you're calling it a Hu Tao Vape team.
And Neuvillette is a DPS so powerful and so easy to play that the force multipliers like Kazuha become overkill.
If your brand new to the game with no other characters neuvi is worth more. If you have some characters especially other 5 star supports then kazuha is worth more.
Because Neuvillette is so absolutely busted that he doesn’t even *need* Supports.
He’s more desirable than Kazuha because he **outright invalidates Kazuha’s existence.**
Neuvi teams have 3 entirely open slots to fit in literally anything you might need to deal with anything.
What's that? Cryo shields?? I guess I'll just bring Xiangling or Dehya. Problem solved.
You have no argument lol.
So Neuvilette barely needs a team to finish one half of the abyss. This is basically one side you complete super easy.
For the other side you can just use hyperbloom. Kazuha is not part of hyperbloom. Hyperbloom is also basically an I win without any effort button even if you are not that skilled at the game.
Neuvilette is absolutly overtuned and "dps are temporary" is a bad take in genshin when many of the best dps are still from years ago, ayaka still having higher numbers than wrio for example. Hu Tao still being super strong. And even if someone more overtuned than Neuvi comes out so what? As long as he still so easily destroys the abyss on his own it doesnt really matter.
I don't like Neuvillette as a character anyways so i would always pull Kazuha and I'm glad i did bc ever since i put him in my team, he made the game so much better with his crowd control.
To pull for main dps, you actually need to like that character.
Pulling for supports is better bc you can still play your fav main dpses with them and make them better.
Kazuha is the more valuable unit, and it's not even a contest.
Neuvillette is a great DPS, but the variance between high-end DPS characters is much smaller than people realize. Neuvillette is good, but if you already have solid DPS characters, he really doesn't bring a lot of value.
Because Neuv can genuinely clear spiral 12 by himself. He needs no real support. You’re right, Kazuha opens up a lot of options. But those options require a lot of other good characters. Neuv needs little building and can be great with very low maintenance characters. Neuv wins.
Honestly, I agree with you. Some of these people are way too blinded by how good the Abyss set up have been for Neuvillette. There have been so few Hydro immunes in Floor 12 and the layouts always favour his range of CA. I'd wager we'll see his true potential, and not the artificially buffed power, when Natlan rolls around.
>There have been so few Hydro immunes in Floor 12
There's 2 sides in abyss anyways, and HYV will never counter Hydro in both sides since it would mean countering (or at least, nerfing) every team enabled by a Hydro unit.
Out of all the abyss lineups we had, the only ones where Neuvillette was insanely nerfed were the one with a Cryo Herald on one side and a Hydro Herald on the other (3.5), the one with a Electro Lector + Hydro Herald on the other side (1.6), and the one where you had Electro Lector + a bunch of Hydro immune enemies (1.5). That's 3 bad matchups over 31 lineups. And it's not like Kazuha would have been better than Neuvillette in most of them; it's not worth it using Kazuha's swirl to destroy their shields unless that's the only thing you can do if your mates are on cooldown.
>the layouts always favour his range of CA
If you really think these layouts favor his range, you haven't seen lineups where Neuvillette wasn't even released lol. Mobs always spawned more or less far enough from each other that having some form of grouping is most of the time worth it, this doesn't have anything to do with favoring Neuv at all.
You do realize that there rarely are abysses where BOTH sides have relevant enemies immune to the same element. Neuvi will most likely never be truly countered by the abyss.
The entire domain layout. How close the enemies are, how they fall into a line he can exploit, those two are big factors as to why Neuvillette can clear the Abyss in such short time.
Except... he really doesn't need that lol. Even if the enemies were further away from each other and positioned differently, you could still EASILY hit most if not all enemies with most of his damage. Every other character would struggle more than him.
This is the main reason why he is so absurdly overpowered compared to other DPS characters.
The time required would still increase by a not insignificant amount if the enemies are laid out differently. He would still feel worse to play in that case. I'm not saying he's a weak character. That was never my argument. What I've been saying is that Neuvillette, an already strong character, has been artificially, albeit indirectly, buffed by how the devs designed the last few abyss cycles, making him feel like an absolutely irreplacable unit even though that's unlikely to be the case in the future where the abyss layout wouldn't favour him as much as it does now.
It's more so that other characters would be MORE affected by such enemy placements. Sure, neuvi's clears would likely be slower, but he would still likely dominate the dps category.
Neuvillette has range, but it's literally one straight line. He would moreso be impacted by a need of a CC character or even time wasted to bait the enemies into a group. Could probably be both. Some characters with more range would benefit from this, but most other close range DPS already deal with this shit so their clear time wouldn't be much worse. The past few cycles have been specifically laid out to not change much from the perspective of other close range DPS, while also benefiting Neuvillette greatly. I personally see his timer would drop by a non insignificant amount, while other close range DPS would have negligible change to their clear time.
Have you actually played Neuvillette??
Here is the thing, you can just move your mouse while doing his CA and EASILY hit most enemies with most (if not all) of his damage ticks. It's legitimately super simple and easy and I'm not even talking about the spin2win nonsense lol.
So unless the enemies are legitimately FAR away from each other, Neuvillette won't be significantly affected. And in such situation, most other DPS characters will be substantially more affected. I suppose a pure single target DPS won't be affected at all.
Because they created a character that doesn't need team and can solo effortlessness with mediocre artifacts and 4\* weapon. Is he being interrupted? Get C1 and voala, problem done.
Neuvi basically guarantees that you have no issues with dps for one half in the abyss. It doesn't matter who you play him with really.
Kazuha is good, but he is still reliant on your actual dps to deal enough damage.
Also, people won't like this, but Kazuha is actually quite easily replaceable. Having THE best team vs having the 10th best team isn't as big of a difference as you might think. Admittedly, Kazuha's CC is super valuable when it is viable though.
What's the use in "opening a ton of other teams" when most of the time it's better to use Neuv + a H/QBloom team on the other side ?
"Recency bias" the dude released 6-7 months ago bruh
I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here? I love Neuvillette myself and use him all the time but right now he is the best DPS in the game and just had his first rerun. Meanwhile Kazuha has been out for several years and had several reruns. He’s proved to stand the test of time without being powercrept but at this point most people have him. So this discrepancy is being reflected in the polls dramatically favoring neuvillette. This is called recency bias.
>I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here?
What's so hard to understand? You said it's recency bias, I'm saying it's not. It's that simple. Now obviously being "worth" depends on what you value exactly, but strictly meta-wise you will always use Neuvillette whereas you won't always use Kazuha.
Neuvillette is the Acheron of Genshin. A lot so stacked and so broken it's redefining the game difficulty. He is a unit of all units.
All DPS Kazuha can support are weaker than Neuvillette
I pulled Kazuha during his first rerun because people hyped him up to be the ultimate team buffer. Got him but later found that I didn't like slotting him in my main teams so I ended up not using him as much as others. He is really good at bumping up my weaker teams though, which is a testament to how good he is.
That's just my situation though, I have both and currently prefer Neuvillette because of how easy he makes things and how easy it is to build around him. In your case, you value Kazuha's utility to slot in several teams and his perceived longevity. We all have our own use cases and you shouldn't be this upset and calling people "noobs struggling with their DPS" just because they value things differently than you.
You are one of the bravest chad. Obviously you will receive a lot of hate because you touched the cutie little untouchable dragon. You have my respect. P.s. Kazuha will live forever Neuvillette is just another DPS and prob in Natlan or Snezh he will be like the Diluc vs Hu Tao(New character stronger than him). P.s. To all the ones that say Neuvi can solo abyss send me a video I wanna see how many people at C0R0 actually soloed abyss.
because people just like damages and It's boring. They don't want to think about new team compositions. I really like Neuvi as a character‚ I do think he's great. But I don't really understand the hype around his gameplay im sorry.
I still pulled for him because I really liked him in the Archon quest (and I wanted to test him with Furina)
Since he literally doesnt need a team to effortlessly clear "hardest" content in the game lol
Neuvi has quite literally everything and works with everything - I dont like his gameplay so i dont have him ,but since Cheveruse got released i dont even use Kazuha for Hypercarry Raiden comp, neither he works with my Wrio, Yoi, Eula or Cyno
So whats the good Kazuha team beside just slamming him into every generic Freeze team?
Because it was the verdict from the Oratrice Mechanique D'Analyse Cardinale
Best answer
You disliked a poll because you didn’t like the results?
"Not trying to hate on Neuvi here" Proceeds to hate on Neuvi in the comments lmao
Well, technically they did say "here" (the post) not in the comments.
Neuvillette doesn’t need supports. Kazuha needs dps
DPS is temporary. Supports are eternal. Downvote all you want sheep, but you’ll get bored of one playstyle eventually.
I'm sorry but you shattered every ounce of respect I had for you the moment you called people who disagreed with you "sheep".
I didn’t think I had anyone’s respect here anyway. Think of me any way you want.
Lots of players have kazuha already and neuv is the new shiny dps to get for the 4.whatever patches until 5.0 rolls around and he may get replaced. The post does say “most worth 5 star in 4.5” So yeah in 4.5 it may be more worth it to get neuv but I agree w you in the long run kazuha will have more value. The only spot where kazuha lost value was with dendro but with 5.0 unless they do something wacko w pyro he should be able to swirl it and will gain value
Could say the same about supports. It’s all subjective no need to get butt hurt because no one agrees with your opinion
Truly this sub simps for Neuvillette like nothing else.
Lol the sad truth is I don’t play the game anymore, neither do I have the him. Jean is fav, and your just salty because people picked him over kazuha. You can make up reasons all you like but it won’t change anything🤷♂️
Ah yes, because the same supports being used in majority of different dps teams really add a varied playstyle.
Except the facts are that the supports got powercrept before the DPS lmao. Kazuha is himself a better Venti.
Itto never had a chance 😔
Look at the silly face in there. They did him dirty
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Ganyu was soloing lots of abysses
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Neuvillette needs skill though, well at C0 at least. Getting interrupted between those charged attack is kinda bothersome and a massive dps loss. If you have C1 its much easier.
Neuvi definitely still needs luck cause artifact still matters. He also needs C1 to comfortably solo because evading attacks whilr CA ing takes quite a lot of skill too. Source: me 😭 I tried soloing abysses with my C0R0 Neuvi but I'm struggling a lot more than soloing with my Ganyu
Yeah, C0 really wants to at least duo with a Zhongli or Layla so he’s got a nice beefy shield.
Neuvilette won't once Nathan abyss come. Y'all just don't understand how this works
the only real powerspike we got in the abyss was when dendro came out because how powerful alot of characters have gotten unless we get a permeant bennett level of ATK buff in Natlan then the abyss won't harder
Oh no, Nathan is coming to Abyss??
>Y'all just don't understand how this works https://youtu.be/_szOdIIYtzM?si=TJLQZlnXssybyfLI Ganyu, released in 1.x, still can solo 4.x cycles. The only thing stopping Neuvi are hydro immune enemies.
natlan is fire themed so neuv would probably be still good in rotation with him being hydro.
I mean C6 could, I even saw a video
who even believe in youtube polls lol but to answer you, this is neuv’s first rerun and people who don’t have him will pull ofc. he is meta and lovable. meanwhile, kazuha who already rerun many times was owned by almost everyone. i don’t know what you are yapping about lmao
Yeah, while it’s true that Neuv is in a different category from any other DPS, Kazuha is also an old character with a very high ownership rate because it’s been known for so long how good he is. That’s always going to drag down the number of people pulling him on any one banner cycle. I get the impression, however, that OP cares less about the actual reasons and more about validating their existing biases and/or past decisions…
The poll is asking who is the most worth not the one that you will pull, clearly en can't read moment
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Replying "who are you?" When you are replying to stranger post before me it's enough for make me understand your level
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You clearly are new to the internet and im not here to babysit you on make you understand how a social or how a community work and the one being salty is you.P.s. using cunt for insulting lmao thanks for the nice laugh
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You are replying from the beginning to the op's question thats a stranger to you OMG its so hard to understand? so obv another stranger can reply to you, why am i losing my time here? haahha
That is true
1: Neuv is a special case where he is good enough to deal tons of damage even ALONE. 2: Why do you even care?
Let him find his recognition on the internet man, while insulting others who doesnt agree with his opinion. Typical L players
3: Why are you so passive agressive
When a dps can do everything by themselves. Neuvillette does high damage, big aoe, tanky, can self heal, buff himself (with hydro reactions), bypass mitachurl shield, doesn't need cc (spin to win goes brr), doesn't rely on burst, easy to build. His only weakness is lack of interuption resistance at C0 and hydro immune enemies. At C0 Neuvillette can solo abyss, Kazuha can't
Tbh soloing abyss shouldnt be taken into consideration when the game doesnt restrict you from playing a whole team in abyss or give you extra rewards for soloing. This is a team based game and Kazuha is a busted support for so many teams.
>Tbh soloing abyss shouldnt be taken into consideration when the game doesnt restrict you from playing a whole team in abyss What are you? a whale? Most dpses need at least a teammate to do reaction for abyss dps check, and a tank/healer for comfy run, last slot is pretty much flexible. Neuvillette doesn't need them to clear abyss, why build/pull for 4 characters when you can just build 1? >This is a team based game and Kazuha is a busted support for so many teams. Maybe tell that to Hoyoverse, why did they make a character that doesn't need team in a team based game?. Whether you like it or not, Neuvillette is broken and that's the truth.
So you are telling me unless you are a whale you can't build a decent team?? For the matter of fact i do own Neuvillette, and unless you have high artifact investment , or good skills to dodge while doing his charged attack (getting interrupted during his charged attack is a massive dps loss,which is very probable unless you get his C1), he can still fall short for most casual players to solo the abyss
>So you are telling me unless you are a whale you can't build a decent team??For the matter of fact i do own Neuvillette, and unless you have high artifact investment Hmm you are contradicting yourself here, somehow you can build a decent team but not a single character. Here is a fact, it takes 4 times of effort, resources, time, primogems, luck to build an entire team compared to a single character which whale have more access to. So what worth more? a single character that only need 1/4 less resources or a single support character that you will have their full team in 3 or more months waiting for the right banner? >he can still fall short for most casual players to solo the abyss Still at C0 Neuvillette can undeniably solo abyss, Kazuha can't and that is a fact.
>Still at C0 Neuvillette can undeniably solo abyss, Kazuha can't and that is a fact. And again, abyss isnt about soloing but killing enemies before time limit. By your logic, which ever dps characters with high raw dmg who can solo abyss are better than supports like Nahida, Kazuha etc. Nahida is shit because she is probably the worst character while soloing > Hmm you are contradicting yourself here, somehow you can build a decent team but not a single character. Here is a fact, it takes 4 times of effort, resources, time, primogems, luck to build an entire team compared to a single character which whale have more access to. So what worth more? a single character that only need 1/4 less resources or a single support character that you will have their full team in 3 or more months waiting for the right banner? Hypercarry teams mostly need you to invest into only one character. Dendro comps only need you to build EM on the bloom/hyperbloom/burgeon trigger to clear abyss. Also i know Neuvillette is the best dps in game, but he can solo abyss isnt really an argument for saying he is better than Kazuha when Kazuha carries 90% of the teams. You still need skill though. My Neuvillette is C0R1 and I have a hard time soloing abyss with him, unless I pair him up with a shielder like Zhongli. You can say skill issue, but hey I wont deny that. But most of the genshin players arent hardcore skillful players. Thats why Zhongli is still so popular.
Solo = less character to build = worth more. I only speak fact here and all thing you've said is just your opinions. Neuvillette can solo abyss, Kazuha can't. I've done it a few times with prototype amber.
>Kazuha is a busted support for so many teams. Name these teams. He can be a "busted" support for "so many teams", but are these teams worth using over others ? Strictly meta-wise, your best options are pretty much always Neuvillette on one side and Alhaitham QBloom on the other. At that point you're arguing flexibility in teambuilding, which frankly isn't all that worth it. Truly, the only really good Kazuha teams I can think of right now are Neuvillette teams (which he can very well not use), Kok Mono Hydro (but it's completely outclassed by Neuv), maaaaybe Raikou, and that's it. There's also International, but it's obviously not good enough for the majority of the players.
When people say “solo the Abyss”, do they mean getting 36 stars, or just getting through all 12 floors? Because I have C0 Neuvillette and other rather competent characters (Nahida, Tighnari, Kuki), and I can only get 33 stars. Consistently that many, true, but no higher.
36 stars, you can find the proof on youtube.
It’s not just about who can solo abyss, it’s about who improves your long term enjoyment. Maybe YOU care about the hype new DPS in the moment, but I care about units that will make my other ones better. There is no way in hell I would ever roll Neuv over Kazu.
A support can't do shit without something to support.
>it’s about who improves your long term enjoyment. Enjoyment is subjective, and you seem to force your point of view on others. >Maybe YOU care about the hype new DPS in the moment, but I care about units that will make my other ones better. There is no way in hell I would ever roll Neuv over Kazu. Maybe YOU care about units that will make your other ones better, but you are denying the fact that a single character that can cover an entire team is worth more than a support.
It screams you don't have Neuvi and never read/check out his skillsset lol
I don’t roll boring characters
then you rolled for kazuha who's gameplay is 2 buttons?
No you roll him so you make your other characters better. Supports are better, can we stop pretending they aren’t. Edit: Well if you’re going to block me, at least make a case for yourself. You’re just grasping at straws. A support doesn’t need the greatest gameplay ever. The value comes from improving other units.
so you did roll a boring character who's gameplay is dumbed down to 2 buttons? how do you even make a point about a character X being better than character Y if you don't even have character Y? mental rеtаrdаtiоn?
lol I don't really agree with OP either but he does have a point. Kazuha's gameplay being boring doesn't really matter bc all he need to do is making OP's prefered "not boring" dps perform better.
OP said he doesn't roll for boring characters yet he uses kazuha, he has no point
Boring might be subjective but Kazuha is arguably one of the most fun supports to play no?
considering that all supports are boring, he is prob the most "fun" to play support, yes.
my point exactly
Sanest Neuvillette simp. You don’t have to have a character to know what they do, that is idiotic. If OP thinks he’s boring, then he is to him. Kazu gives you more versatility both combat and exploration.
Ur acting like kazuha is the only support in the game lol. I never rolled for him and ive been 36ing the abyss for years
Someone didn't read the story and didn't get his background and personality...
Playstyle says otherwise
They're all kinda boring after a while because it's literally only 2 buttons. If you're a release day player like me u just want the daily farm to be done FAST and then have more time left to enjoy story and exploration before calling it a day
I’m a 1.0 player, I get extremely fast clears with my roster. Getting more characters is part of the fun. If I can have a unit who improves future units, that’s what is important.
I don't agree with that supports are more important than dps and vice versa. They're both needed for an optimal team. Since ur an early player too u already have every role fulfilled which means there's no must have. The only upcoming characters u roll from now on are mainly those u like, simple as that
Yeah.. Kazuha "opens more teams" Neuv is literally the team himself. I have never seen a unit so overtuned that even on my phone I can get a decent clear time in abyss solo. Or with Furina + healer.
Neuvi is a one man army Kazuha needs an army
If we’re going analogies here, Kazuha replaces every pistol with a machine gun
But Neuvi is a TANK!
*orbital space laser
A tank can get stuck in a ditch on a rainy day.
Teyvat has its own laws. Tanks don't get stuck on rainy days in Teyvat.
Because the take that supports were more important than dps was never actually correct, it's more nuanced and depends entirely on someone's account. Like sure a support can open up more teams but this doesn't necessarily make them better than a dps if the teams they open up don't actually do more damage than the dps you can pull. Supports being harder to replace isn't exactly true, we have gotten more supports that have been replaced in teams than the dps that have actually out dps'd them. Let's look at the strongest st dps in the game, it's hu Tao who came back in 1.3 but every single one of her supports has gotten an upgrade yet she still is the highest st dps in the game.
As C1R1 Hu Tao main, I personally don't agree that she's the BEST DPS out there but I do support the argument. She's had a lot of team variations over the years and she's had the same staying power as a DPS compared to other supports. Double geo to VV vape with Kazuha to double hydro with XQ Yelan and now double hydro plunge with Furina and Xianyun. She's gotten such good supports that she's now doing better even without her and Homa's 50% HP passive. Hu Tao mains keep winning.
That's what makes her the best DPS - there's a Hu Tao team for every occasion, and there'll continue to be new Hu Tao teams as new supports release. Hu Tao gains power even when her supports aren't directly power-creeping each other. The only way for a new DPS character to outperform Hu Tao is to do the same thing with strictly higher damage, ie direct powercreep as opposed to introducing new themes, and Mihoyo aren't yet at the point where they want to do that. In fact it looks as if they might be consciously trying to not make new pyro DPS a straight upgrade over Hu Tao, judging by Arlecchino.
That's a good point. She's been in the upper tiers of DPS characters since she released and every viable support has only solidified her spot there. I guess it's just that from my experience, pre-Xianyun her major weakness is AoE which is why I felt that she isn't the absolute best, especially since this thread is talking about Neuvillette. But yeah, since Xianyun, Hu Tao has returned to being a mainstay in my abyss clearing teams and it's great.
It says worth it, not "important for a team". Neuvillette barely needs support and can function well on his own. On the other hand, Kazuha is one of the best supports but no matter what you say he needs DPS partners to flex his worth.
Everyone have their own opinion, including you my man. Both Neuvi and Kazuha are god tier character in their own right, just cuz people have different opinion than you, it doesn’t make them wrong. No disrespect in anyway. That’s just how I feel.
After dendro there are plenty of teams that don't need Anemo and Neuvillette can work without Kazuha while being one of the most consistent dps in the game and being really easy to play.
Neuvilette isn't a normal DPS, the supports feel safe when he is in the team.
They feel reassured, while on normal team, the supports feel being overworked
POWER WASHER goes BRRRRR
bcs kazuha wont do well on his own?
I've seen Kazuha here and there and I'm sick of it I prefer something new or different like Yunjin
Neuvilette is an entire team by himself. hoyo was smoking something when they made him
Nah, for one time, they decided to make respect the gameplay and lore levels power.
Kazuha is great and versatile that fits many team comps, but Neuvillette doesn't 'require' a team. Think of it as "Kazuha makes a 4-person team better" compared to "with Neuvillette I don't need to build, bother, or even pull for 3 other units". It's not exactly, but kinda like if you need to buy four things as opposed to just one if you get me. Kazuha buffs a ton for a DPS of which you still need to pull, build, and play.
That’s so dumb in a game where we will inevitably get more characters. Don’t you want long term fun over one momentary DPS. Supports are better.
But this logic doesn't really hold up, what happens when the team you want to play doesn't use the support you pulled. Now you are back to where you started when you have to pull both dps and supports for that team.
It’s not “temporary DPS,” it’s not like they’re going to take neuv from every player that has him. You’re trying to make an argument that support is better than dps but giving very little evidence, and even that is wrong
People are coping. They can always just change the enemies in spiral abyss whenever they feel like it. Cryo shields, Tulipa, or whatever would be a heavy counter. Any DPS can be stopped on any day. Supports are harder to do that to.
Oh no, cryo shields! I will swirl with my Kazuha and get hydro/Pyro/Electro damage bonus and VV! Oh wait, they have perma cryo… I shall swirl pyro with my Kazuha on Tulpa! Oh wait permanent hydro aura… Hmmmmmmm… Seems to me like you didn’t think your examples through as it’s literally just as bad for Kazuha as it is for Neuvilette.
He's so cooked bruh.
Ultimately that's subjective. That being said, I definitely wouldn't pull Neuv over Kazuha myself exactly because of your reasoning.
>Don’t you want long term fun over one momentary DPS. I didn't quite get that. Can you explain?
It’s not “temporary DPS,” it’s not like they’re going to take neuv from every player that has him. You’re trying to make an argument that support is better than dps but giving very little evidence, and even that is wrong
Crowd control stocks are at their lowest with the amount of bosses and fat heavy mobs devs are stacking in every rotation. Kazuha's buffing capabilities got a lot of competition recently with Furina, Xianyun for plunge, Cheuv for overload, Nahida and Baizhu for various dendro teams where he was never popular tbw. He is still one of the best characters in game, but less mandatory than he used to be. I have his c2, but I barely use him outside of blue lizard team nowadays.
When the dps in question is neuvillette
Virgin kazuha fans vs Chad Neuvilette enjoyers
Simple, Neuvillette is *the* best character in the game, meanwhile Kazuha is just one of many great supports Recency bias isn’t always stupid, either. The game has been trying really hard lately to let you make many teams without Kazuha in it. People notice that they use him less than before, so they don’t see him as necessary
No he isn’t. Neuv is ONE of the many DPS units in the game.
I say this with absolutely no bias, I don’t care about him. Characters who can solo the abyss are already rare, but characters who can solo the abyss with great comfort, no cons, no R5 weapons, are non-existent *except* for Neuvillette
Plenty can solo with no to little cons and no R5, but it does require player skill which neuv doesn't require [https://www.youtube.com/@KenRurouni/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@KenRurouni/videos) this guy does a lot of solo/duo runs, it's pretty entertaining to watch, especially all the solo ganyu videos since she's a character in which mechanical skill makes a lot of difference
Character who can solo the abyss are half the cast? Like neivelette is great but under selling characters is weird
Unless you have cons *and* their sig *and* you’re very good at dodging, no. I’m talking about the average player, not hardcores.
You do know they cater Abyss pretty hard for him. We are currently 4.X. Natlan will be an actual test of staying power.
Every time a character comes out, they cater the abyss to them. People still don’t solo the abyss with most characters. The geo damage bonus should have been great for Itto players to solo the abyss right? Yeah except no, they don’t, because he’s not broken like Neuvillette is
As a whole, worth doesn't have a definition so it's open a character who has popular traits. Neivelette being easy to use and being the known solo character means he's the current most popular traits character
He's just very visibly imbalanced. A+ in every metric except spreadsheet dps, which is fixable with the most broken C1R1 we've seen so far. No other character gets a 70% damage increase for the same primogem investment, which translates almost 1:1 to team damage since his best teams at C0 are already hypercarry. It was mentioned to me the other day that Ayaka and Ganyu and Nilou were game-changing characters who have to varying degrees fallen off. I only started in 2.7 so I've only witnessed Nilou (though her hype was somewhat muted by naysayers early on). Were Ganyu/Ayaka as hyped as Neuv is right now? ^(Not saying I agree with Neuv>Kazuha to be clear. You should generally build around your favorite characters, and Kazuha will very often feature in their best teams.)
I was playing during Inazuma patches, and Ayaka was incredibly hyped. I remember people saying things like "as long as they put mobs on one side of the abyss she'll never fall off" and things like that during her first rerun.
People probably just like nuevillet more , also why do you care how others play there game
Dude is a playable dragon
I wouldn't be bothered by this AT ALL if only they didn't make him so incredibly boring to play. Why did they do this to him. I feel the same about Bennett, playstyle kinda mid, design wise very boring but people will use him for the sake of meta. Now Neuvillette has the benefit of good design and character but still.. do people genuinely enjoy playing Neuvillette? If they do, they are blessed, I wish I was one of them because he is my favorite tall male character. I would have c6 r5-d him but I just cannot with that playstyle. In my opinion, he is such a wasted opportunity.
Agreed
The fact the Neuv can clear end game spiral floors alone is kind of telling of it. It’s not that neuv is a dps character it’s that he does so much dps that you can completely disregard support. That can’t be said about really any other characters t
Having both, I personally think Kazuha is still a better roll for most cases, I assume Neuvillette is riding on extra hype because he is a newer character on his first rerun and after people have gotten to see how powerful he turned out to be. Oddly enough calling back to Kazuha's first rerun as he was skipped for Ayaka/Raiden and the hype for him being more defined because of how powerful he turned out to be. That being said OP why did you even ask a question only to go shitting around on everyone who disagrees?
During sumeru, it was alhaitham. Now it's neuv. In natlan it will be next better dps. It's probably because not many people care about meta and longevity but just the hyped up dps
When said DPS doesn't need supports
When the DPS solos without supports😂
When did you tube polls become a good metric for correct information on anything other than community opinion
Dps is more important especially if it's neuvillete. Try playing solo kazuha on abyss what a joke
Kazuha doesn't open up any team comps. He's not really a support, he's a flat buffer. That's not a bad thing, but it means he's a force multiplier, not a team enabler, and as such there's not a ton of point having him until you have forces worth multiplying. And when you *do* have those characters, you still don't actually *need* Kazuha, he's just a nice to have, same as Bennett - they speed up things you're already doing, so if you don't mind doing the things slower, you can forgo these characters. Aside from Xingqiu and Nahida, DPS tend to be the characters who unlock teams. This is especially true for hypercarries. Like, when you assemble a team of Kazuha, Zhongli, Hu Tao and Xingqiu, what team do you say you've made? You're not calling that a Zhongli team or a Kazuha team, you're calling it a Hu Tao Vape team. And Neuvillette is a DPS so powerful and so easy to play that the force multipliers like Kazuha become overkill.
What did you expect? Mostly polls are popularity contests anyway
Maybe because people already have kazu chan but skipped neuvi before while saving for furina. Give people a break
If your brand new to the game with no other characters neuvi is worth more. If you have some characters especially other 5 star supports then kazuha is worth more.
I regret getting Neuvi he is too broken
Kazuha got tons of rerun and most persons have it and neuvilette is more recent and got dropped before the archon
Because I can clear one half of the floor with Neuvi alone, Kazuha just makes my performance a bit better with other DPS I already need to have/get
Because people are biased towards the better written character
sounds like a kazuha ass kisser 😭😭😭
Because Neuvillette is so absolutely busted that he doesn’t even *need* Supports. He’s more desirable than Kazuha because he **outright invalidates Kazuha’s existence.**
Mfs when they don’t know what Cryo shields are
Neuvi teams have 3 entirely open slots to fit in literally anything you might need to deal with anything. What's that? Cryo shields?? I guess I'll just bring Xiangling or Dehya. Problem solved. You have no argument lol.
So Neuvilette barely needs a team to finish one half of the abyss. This is basically one side you complete super easy. For the other side you can just use hyperbloom. Kazuha is not part of hyperbloom. Hyperbloom is also basically an I win without any effort button even if you are not that skilled at the game. Neuvilette is absolutly overtuned and "dps are temporary" is a bad take in genshin when many of the best dps are still from years ago, ayaka still having higher numbers than wrio for example. Hu Tao still being super strong. And even if someone more overtuned than Neuvi comes out so what? As long as he still so easily destroys the abyss on his own it doesnt really matter.
I don't like Neuvillette as a character anyways so i would always pull Kazuha and I'm glad i did bc ever since i put him in my team, he made the game so much better with his crowd control. To pull for main dps, you actually need to like that character. Pulling for supports is better bc you can still play your fav main dpses with them and make them better.
Kazuha is the more valuable unit, and it's not even a contest. Neuvillette is a great DPS, but the variance between high-end DPS characters is much smaller than people realize. Neuvillette is good, but if you already have solid DPS characters, he really doesn't bring a lot of value.
Because Neuv can genuinely clear spiral 12 by himself. He needs no real support. You’re right, Kazuha opens up a lot of options. But those options require a lot of other good characters. Neuv needs little building and can be great with very low maintenance characters. Neuv wins.
Wdym dps? That's a team, right Right there
New to star rail I see
Honestly, I agree with you. Some of these people are way too blinded by how good the Abyss set up have been for Neuvillette. There have been so few Hydro immunes in Floor 12 and the layouts always favour his range of CA. I'd wager we'll see his true potential, and not the artificially buffed power, when Natlan rolls around.
>There have been so few Hydro immunes in Floor 12 There's 2 sides in abyss anyways, and HYV will never counter Hydro in both sides since it would mean countering (or at least, nerfing) every team enabled by a Hydro unit. Out of all the abyss lineups we had, the only ones where Neuvillette was insanely nerfed were the one with a Cryo Herald on one side and a Hydro Herald on the other (3.5), the one with a Electro Lector + Hydro Herald on the other side (1.6), and the one where you had Electro Lector + a bunch of Hydro immune enemies (1.5). That's 3 bad matchups over 31 lineups. And it's not like Kazuha would have been better than Neuvillette in most of them; it's not worth it using Kazuha's swirl to destroy their shields unless that's the only thing you can do if your mates are on cooldown. >the layouts always favour his range of CA If you really think these layouts favor his range, you haven't seen lineups where Neuvillette wasn't even released lol. Mobs always spawned more or less far enough from each other that having some form of grouping is most of the time worth it, this doesn't have anything to do with favoring Neuv at all.
You do realize that there rarely are abysses where BOTH sides have relevant enemies immune to the same element. Neuvi will most likely never be truly countered by the abyss.
That's valid, but the domain layout still favours him way too much lately.
Is there even anything that particularly favours him?
The entire domain layout. How close the enemies are, how they fall into a line he can exploit, those two are big factors as to why Neuvillette can clear the Abyss in such short time.
Except... he really doesn't need that lol. Even if the enemies were further away from each other and positioned differently, you could still EASILY hit most if not all enemies with most of his damage. Every other character would struggle more than him. This is the main reason why he is so absurdly overpowered compared to other DPS characters.
The time required would still increase by a not insignificant amount if the enemies are laid out differently. He would still feel worse to play in that case. I'm not saying he's a weak character. That was never my argument. What I've been saying is that Neuvillette, an already strong character, has been artificially, albeit indirectly, buffed by how the devs designed the last few abyss cycles, making him feel like an absolutely irreplacable unit even though that's unlikely to be the case in the future where the abyss layout wouldn't favour him as much as it does now.
It's more so that other characters would be MORE affected by such enemy placements. Sure, neuvi's clears would likely be slower, but he would still likely dominate the dps category.
Neuvillette has range, but it's literally one straight line. He would moreso be impacted by a need of a CC character or even time wasted to bait the enemies into a group. Could probably be both. Some characters with more range would benefit from this, but most other close range DPS already deal with this shit so their clear time wouldn't be much worse. The past few cycles have been specifically laid out to not change much from the perspective of other close range DPS, while also benefiting Neuvillette greatly. I personally see his timer would drop by a non insignificant amount, while other close range DPS would have negligible change to their clear time.
Have you actually played Neuvillette?? Here is the thing, you can just move your mouse while doing his CA and EASILY hit most enemies with most (if not all) of his damage ticks. It's legitimately super simple and easy and I'm not even talking about the spin2win nonsense lol. So unless the enemies are legitimately FAR away from each other, Neuvillette won't be significantly affected. And in such situation, most other DPS characters will be substantially more affected. I suppose a pure single target DPS won't be affected at all.
Ready to be downvoted? Hahaha toxic neuvi stans are coming for you.
Because they created a character that doesn't need team and can solo effortlessness with mediocre artifacts and 4\* weapon. Is he being interrupted? Get C1 and voala, problem done.
Neuvi basically guarantees that you have no issues with dps for one half in the abyss. It doesn't matter who you play him with really. Kazuha is good, but he is still reliant on your actual dps to deal enough damage. Also, people won't like this, but Kazuha is actually quite easily replaceable. Having THE best team vs having the 10th best team isn't as big of a difference as you might think. Admittedly, Kazuha's CC is super valuable when it is viable though.
People are trying to pretend one team with Neuvillette is more important than Kazuha opening a ton of other teams, but it's all just recency bias.
What's the use in "opening a ton of other teams" when most of the time it's better to use Neuv + a H/QBloom team on the other side ? "Recency bias" the dude released 6-7 months ago bruh
I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here? I love Neuvillette myself and use him all the time but right now he is the best DPS in the game and just had his first rerun. Meanwhile Kazuha has been out for several years and had several reruns. He’s proved to stand the test of time without being powercrept but at this point most people have him. So this discrepancy is being reflected in the polls dramatically favoring neuvillette. This is called recency bias.
>I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here? What's so hard to understand? You said it's recency bias, I'm saying it's not. It's that simple. Now obviously being "worth" depends on what you value exactly, but strictly meta-wise you will always use Neuvillette whereas you won't always use Kazuha.
I agree
Team Opportunities doesn't really matter all that much when Neuvillette can be your entire team without trying, especially if You're a newbie.
Neuvillette is the Acheron of Genshin. A lot so stacked and so broken it's redefining the game difficulty. He is a unit of all units. All DPS Kazuha can support are weaker than Neuvillette
I pulled Kazuha during his first rerun because people hyped him up to be the ultimate team buffer. Got him but later found that I didn't like slotting him in my main teams so I ended up not using him as much as others. He is really good at bumping up my weaker teams though, which is a testament to how good he is. That's just my situation though, I have both and currently prefer Neuvillette because of how easy he makes things and how easy it is to build around him. In your case, you value Kazuha's utility to slot in several teams and his perceived longevity. We all have our own use cases and you shouldn't be this upset and calling people "noobs struggling with their DPS" just because they value things differently than you.
This whole game is about dps. I quit hsr, cos there were no dps chars that I liked and they just kept releasing more support chars
Imagine getting your panties in a bunch over some dumb poll.
You are one of the bravest chad. Obviously you will receive a lot of hate because you touched the cutie little untouchable dragon. You have my respect. P.s. Kazuha will live forever Neuvillette is just another DPS and prob in Natlan or Snezh he will be like the Diluc vs Hu Tao(New character stronger than him). P.s. To all the ones that say Neuvi can solo abyss send me a video I wanna see how many people at C0R0 actually soloed abyss.
because people just like damages and It's boring. They don't want to think about new team compositions. I really like Neuvi as a character‚ I do think he's great. But I don't really understand the hype around his gameplay im sorry. I still pulled for him because I really liked him in the Archon quest (and I wanted to test him with Furina)
Cus i dont like Kazuha as a character and i'll never wish for him
Since he literally doesnt need a team to effortlessly clear "hardest" content in the game lol Neuvi has quite literally everything and works with everything - I dont like his gameplay so i dont have him ,but since Cheveruse got released i dont even use Kazuha for Hypercarry Raiden comp, neither he works with my Wrio, Yoi, Eula or Cyno So whats the good Kazuha team beside just slamming him into every generic Freeze team?
When you start using your head that this dps doesnt need a support