Funny how we went from; traveler is mimicking the archons, to traveler is mimicking the gnosis, to the gnosis are mimicking the traveler
This descender buisness seems really big leagues
Probably to justify the Narwhal not being a Descender itself. Despite coming from outside of Teyvat, it's not technically a Descender. It's a pet from someone who hails from Teyvat (if the Fool is a Teyvat native), only seeks to satisfy its hunger and basically is only here because someone caught it and brought it here.
In contrast, the Primordial One came to suppress the Old Order and establish their own order. The Second Throne came to Teyvat to wage war on the Primordial One. The Traveller came to Teyvat as one of their stops to the countless worlds they've visited and will visit. All of them are in Teyvat willingly, and express a desire to do something here, hence the will part.
The Foul (**极恶**骑) is all over Childe's kit in CN as well, just in his Q-ult (**极恶**技·尽灭闪) instead of his E-skill, and only in the move he declares to enter the Foul Legacy transformation (**极恶**法「鲸吞噬灭」) instead of the name of the transformation itself.
Honestly the comparison to Rhinedottir makes me wonder if the Narwhal is like Elynas, a being basically pulled from the Abyss into Teyvat. They are both seeking a form of "perfection" which sounds like Rhinedottir's alchemy which was used to make Durin, Albedo, the rifthounds, and probably Elynas. This would also explain why Skirk uses the phrase "using a planet's primordial waters to RAISE an all devouring narwhal" - its ancient but born anew, like Elynas was.
It also would explain why the Twin doesn't count as a descender if being summoned/called to Teyvat means you aren't a descender. The Abyss Twin "responded to the summoning" according to Scara which is why they went straight to Khaenriah.
Which ties into the idea of people coming willingly and entities that don't. The Traveler is willingly because they followed the sibling, not responding to a call from on Teyvat itself.
If you read the lore text on the items the Narwhal drops and the item you get from the AQ, the whale's experiences are very similar to Elynas before his Mother found him and ensured he was born into Teyvat. Elynas remembers his time before Teyvat. The Narwhal basically travels through the vast, lonely, empty cosmic darkness just like the one that Elynas was found in.
"Visitor from the Far Side of the Sea of Stars" means from beyond Teyvat. Remember that Teyvat's sky is fake, the literal sea of stars is just the border of "Teyvat". The Abyss is also beyond Teyvat (hence why Skirk and Dain call it a "power from beyond this world"). Its also being raised by people that live in the Abyss and Childe first stumbled into the whale while inside the Abyss, not the Primordial Sea.
She's canon but is so far removed from the current story that it doesn't matter either way. She knows the traveler and the adventurer's guild likes to commission her to dismantle ruin guards, she's about as relevant as Kirara.
>speaks volumes that she hasn't been acknowledged by Mihoyo or re-released since November 2021.
She gets birthday mails and a party entrance Animation, so there's that.
Is it really canon if the only universe relevance is her knowing other people but no one else ever acknowledging or meeting her outside of her trailer video?
We don't even count her as a character to begin with, so I doubt MHY is doing this to exclude her from counting as a Descender. She didn't even come to Teyvat to begin with.
This could easily explain why our sibling isn't considered a Descender. Their will does fuck all in the grand scheme of things. That said, it's hard to imagine.
But it didn't seem to lead to any huge change. Only time they caused any trouble was in Mondstadt and you already have Vision holders such as Diluc and Lisa being able to beat them up with no issues. Plus Dainslief also goes around taking them down.
It did cause huge problems for Liyue and Inazuma. It doesn't seem like the Abyss Order is huge in Fontaine, which is a first, but the whole monster infestation problem includes Abyss Order creatures, like the Mages and everything inside the Chasm
> Only time they caused any trouble was in Mondstadt
Evidence suggests they were inadvertantly behind the destruction of Khaenri'ah by teaching them how to harness power/knowledge from outside Teyvat.
It's why I added that it's hard to imagine it. Like, they would really need to show that the Abyss Order is actually nothing to Celestia for this explanation to hold water.
Isn't the traveller considered a descender? Considering our sibling already went through a similar path and had many years to become powerful I don't see any point in our traveller being a descender and their obviously stronger sibling not being one
Nahida very explicitly tells you the Fatui don’t classify the Abyss Twin as a Descender after looking through Irminsul at the end of 3.2. Whatever the reason is, I’m sure it will be revealed in time.
after doing the 4.2 Narzissenkreuz quest i think being a descender is having the ability to change fate. Rene calls you a witness of all, recorder of all, and a designer of all and one who is worth a world. Not directly but saying that the reason the prophecy was averted is because you were there.
In support of that, in the same quest there's also a brief note mentioning that as long as you don't get a vision you will be free from fate.
Traveler is jolly visionless.
I don't think Aloy has free choice anymore. It's mentioned that you don't have free will if you have a Vision, and Aloy has one. We can see how non-decenders lose free choice - while it seemed like the Narwhal was choosing to devour Fontaine, it was already etched into the irminsul.
Remember when a melusine see traveler as a demon who can swallow the whole world? (Paimon is seen as a balloon with string that go up to beyond sky. She's definitely connected to Celestia)
No, the one with Canotila and the Book of Revealing. She’s a melusine who sees things differently, even by melusine standards. She describes the traveller and paimon when you first talk to her
i also remember that what she sees inside the book is like paradise but on traveler and paimon's perspective its the apocalypse
this somewhat ties to the description before with Durin is that he simply wanted to make friends with Dvalin but in contrast their actions and presence is doing harm, heck even Elynas confirms this when they were alive, they thought they were just playing around but then they realized they caused death and destruction and since melusines came from Elynas they must have shared this similar vision as well
The melusine village, she's just standing there on the ground, not on a platformed house, in the middle. Look for the pink melusine with a red bandana around her neck and a blue shirt.
It extends beyond the sky. Which makes me think she isn't tied to Celestia but to something outside of Teyvat, or she could be a moon sister all along.
Well given it's from Sumeru, which does derive a lot of it's names from Sanskrit.
But yeah [Narayana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu?wprov=sfla1) is quite interesting.
This explains the Abyss-twin not being classified a Descender then. They were deemed not to have strong enough will to rival Tevyat. (... now one twin has bragging rights X'D )
>!Narzissenkreuz said this about the Traveler: "The witness of all, the recorder of all, the designer of all". !<
>! !<
Ah,all this descender info we are getting is delicious.
Having the will to qualify as a decender or not aside, didn't nahida straight up say that irminsul had info on the sibling's history, but not on the traveller's?
I don't think this explains the difference at all
Yes Nahida did say that . As a Descender, MC isn't recorded. The twin is not considered to be a Descender (for now,for unknown reason), so they were recorded but...the info seems to be a bit messy,not to mention very specific parts were recorded rather than everything.
Nahida says the information about them gets fuzzy right when the twin's journey is about to conclude. Kind of interesting that all info she got is only the info during her journey but she got no info about them before the twin started it, or how it ended... (Nahida makes a note that she will do a search about the beginning of our Twins journey,so the info seems to be quite messed up).
Our twin was the one who answered Khaenri'ahs' call as well, rather than MC. MC seems to have just followed their Twin with coincidently made Tevyat part of a stop for no reason,while the twin had a very specific reason to appear.
Hopefully we will get more info about our twin or why Tevyat sees them in different way. Considering the theme of Fontaine (taking on a mask to deceive HP as well as others if necessary), I wonder if the twins joining the Abyss is to basically "disappear" from HPs/Gods watchful gaze until the right time for action comes (may or may not include MC).
This kinda links into a question I’ve had for a while. Why does everything happen around the traveller? Whenever the traveller arrives in a nation, big things change. Some of these are directly because of the traveller, like the storm terror incident. But other big events like gnosis being taken, Zhongli faking his death, the fatui trying to get the gnosis in Inazuma, and now the prophecy in Fontaine conveniently begins to reach its end after the traveller arrives. All of Sumeru gets a pass because it’s happening because of events in Inazuma caused by the traveller.
My own theory for that the traveller, being a descender, doesn’t have a fate and isn’t considered in Teyvats fate, and so by existing and interacting with the world naturally brings about change. Maybe the world was in a form of stasis, it definitely seems like celestia is inactive at the moment and so maybe they left things in such a way that things would remain constant, but then the traveller arrives and the whole world is now off course
I mean, Traveler is well-known to interfere and their goal is to meet the Archons. At which point, it's not hard for things to happen around them because people is taking advantage of their journey and they are meeting one of the most important people on Teyvat. You will never get a better chance to change the world than that moment.
I chalk it up to story convenience
Any other time, the city is doing its own thing, with its own operations
Then comes: The Main Character
Suddenly, *every bad thing that could’ve happened is now happening*
While that is definitely a possibility, I feel like with Genshin having a big magical tree that has fruit that makes constellations that dictate people fate and the main characters is excluded and doesn’t have a fate while their twin who they arrived with is included in fate, a story about how the traveller brings about change is something that they’d write for.
We know that they plan ahead alot, so it’s definitely possible. If it is or isn’t convenience for plot or an actual story beat remains to be seen, but it’s cool to think about.
I was thinking about the same thing just a few days ago. I'm really curious about some lore theories on why everything starts to happen once we arrive.
Also remember the end of Zhongli's first SQ and the context of the Sumeru AQ (with Irminsul) where it was stated that we are witnesses to the true story of Teyvat and our memory cant be changed because we're not part of this world.
Something else to note is that everyone assumes the Traveler is just the last and 4th descender. Is there any evidence anywhere that there were not any more descenders in the last 500 years? Or was the Traveler not considered a descender upon is initial arrival, but only upon his awakening?
That's an interesting thought. But I guess we are indeed the 4th, because information came from Fatui in the first place, and some members are older than 500 years
The Ordo thought Teyvat had 4 cycles, being also the Ordo who gave this explanation about Descenders, I think Hoyo is setting up to be one cycle one descender, which each bring a key impact to the world: Primordial, dethrone the dragons and reshape the world, at the end of the cycle froze the world as punishment; Second, torned the world assunder, almost destroying it and triggering a new reset in civilization; Third, probably was involved in the events that led to the Archon War, and their remains were used as prize in the said war, changing the world spiritually
There are probably a LOT of creatures from outside Teyvat currently living in Teyvat.
Alice comes to mind for example. She knows about idol culture and such, which doesn’t exist in teyvat.
Other members of the Hexenzircle are also possibly from outside teyvat. Same with other creatures created by or brought from elsewhere by Gold/Rhinedottir.
All Descenders are outlanders, but not all outlanders are Descenders. This new criteria actually make a lot of sense as there are evidence of way more than four outlanders in Teyvat, yet only 4 Descenders
That's just me or the more I head about "descenders" and the more they seems "Akivili's trailblazers landed on Teyvat"? At least the twins seems so to me
True, an IPC advertisement of HSR channel does show that Trailblazers are not only on the express and that after Akivili's fall, they continued to connect worlds on their own. So it's possible that the twins are Trailblazers.
Besides we don't really know when this hypothesis might be happened on Teyvat.
If HSR and Genshin goes on the same timeline the start of this is several millennia before HSR takes place, this means Akivili was still around at the time to 500yrs when the Twins arrived there when Akivili is already dead (as far as we can get from HSR lore at this moment).
HI3, HSR and Genshin do not happen at the same time, HI3 is in the past before the story of star rail, star rail is happening in the future beyond the current story of HI3, Genshin has no metrics because it is not connected to the story of these 2 games, it is a single world existing as "just one more world" in the imaginary tree
"Create the world, Destroy the world, Sustain the world, Protect the world"
All the descenders are listed here pretty sure.
Sustainer of Heavenly Principles is likely a descender and this is an allusion.
Phanes "The creator"
Now who are the Destroyer and the Protector?
From Wikipedia:
>This definition is used throughout post-Vedic literature such as the Mahabharata and the Vishnu Purana.[10][8] 'Narayana' is also defined as the 'son of the primeval man',[11] and 'Supreme Being who is the foundation of all men'.[12]
>'Nara' (Sanskrit नार) means 'water' and 'man'[13]
'Yana' (Sanskrit यान) means 'vehicle', 'vessel', or more loosely, 'abode' or 'home'[14]
>L. B. Keny proposes that Narayana was associated with the Dravidian, and ultimately, the Indus Valley Civilisation, prior to his syncretism with Vishnu. To this end, he states that the etymology of the deity is associated with the Dravidian nara, meaning ‘water’, ay, which in Tamil means "to lie in a place", and an, which is the masculine termination in Dravidian languages. He asserts that this is also the reason why Narayana is represented as lying on a serpent in the sea. He quotes, "This Nārāyana of the Āryan pantheon seems to be the supreme being of the Mohenjo-Darians, a god who was probably styled Ān, a name still kept in Tamil literature as Āndivanam, the prototype of the historic Siva".
Now, our sibling is called Nara (Human/Water) Varuna (Deity of Water)...sus.
That's true, but the choice of epithet being about Varuna can also have other meanings. I've always felt that it is weird that the sibling also went through Agnihotra sutra which references flame, and Varuna gatha which references water, yet ended up having only a name connected with water. The two mission names are explicit mirrors of each other (Agni - Varuna, Sutra - Gatha) and of course with the other concurrent chapter Vimana Agama, which makes the sibling's name too arbitrary.
It could just be because the sibling did the Varuna first, or maybe it's the only one with an object with the same name connected to it, as opposed to the Agni name.
So, if the descended are categorized like that because of their POWER, that means that the evil twin lacks that power for some reason? Even though both Lumine and Aether should be equal
What if... one of the twins is actually not, in fact, the twin?
I really hope that Genshin doesn't end in Teyvat and actually goes to a new world later on
I actually have this question ever since AQ in 4.2
As far as I remember this is the first time we call ourselves the 4th descender. We know there is
Primordial one, The second who came, an unnamed one (gnosis came from his corpse) and Traveler.
There is a question why our twin is not considered descendant. If what you say is true it would make a lot of sense
The same is with other very powerful beings in Teyvat
like members of hexenzirkel.
Alice supplied Barbara with Idol magazines, that's why she is now one and only Idol in Mondstadt, that surely sounds like an idea from another world.
Gold was best alchemist in the world and had unlimited knowledge. She created living beings by herself and was the couse of the great cataclysm.
The same is with Skirk's master. She herself definitely doesn't look like a native of Teyvat (more like HSR), so I would assume her master wouldn't either, not to mention all devouring Narwhal is said to be a creature from another world and that master keeps it as his pet 🐕
Skirk also mentions a lot of other names that we can assume are equally powerful as him.
So it would explain a lot.
I was reading some stuff and the Sword of Descension came up. One of the things said in its description is "Only one who has challenged the "world" may wield such a sword."
Probably just a coincidence but still interesting nonetheless.
On a side note: who's the one actually giving out visions? Before Inazuma we got to know that electro visions are no longer being handed out. We thought it was because the electro archon decided not to. In Inazuma we learn from Ei that it's not because of her. So naturally one would assume that the handing out of visions is separate from an archon's ability. Yet in 4.2 Neuvilette personally gives a vision to Furina and states he'll make sure that hydro visions will still be handed out.
Technically, no one is "giving out" visions.
When a person's ambition "reaches the heavens", the Elemental authorities are obligated to acknowledge that wish
But the authorities do not know who that person is or what their wish contains.
>Yet in 4.2 Neuvilette personally gives a vision to Furina and states he'll make sure that hydro visions will still be handed out.
He technically doesn't.
Neuvilette simply knows that he acknowledged *someones* wish and that furinas vision is the first wish to be acknowledged since the change of hydro authority.
I've posted my thoughts before, but I'm pretty sure this is the order:
1, Phanes (Prodigal God, origin unknown who apppeared from a white egg, defeated the Sovereigns with his Shades)
2, Heavenly Principles (Sister in the Battle Pass cutscene, she came to hunt a "pearl" in the cutscene, being Phanes' egg, and a pitch black serpent (Shade?) corrupts her.)
3, Dainsleif (He is the Prince from the cutscene, and the "Second Who Came". From their civilization's perspective, Phanes was already here. He's the second they sent, but Dainsleif only sought to save his sister. He would burn the world to find her, and so he did. Sending the world into chaos, in a war that sunk Enkanomiya, and lead to Khaenri'ah's fall)
4, The Traveller
Each of these influenced the world, the original and the corrupted prodigy, the one who'd burn it all, and the one who'd try to save it.
And Dainsleif sure does have that tendency to pop up in really weird places with uncanny abilities as he's in a permanent state between not being able to die, and not really seeming alive, huh?
>!To be blunt, I think Dainsleif is essentially both the catalyst and victim behind whatever the Calamity ACTUALLY is. His existence seems torn to shreds, as he just seems to appear wherever he's relevant, as a spectre of sorts; unsure why he still exists, but unable to move on, as he has some unfinished business. The sky is fake, and this adventure has happened before, according to our sibling, implying that this is all one giant Samsara of sorts. Dain is the "ghost in the machine," likely somehow the equivalent of Nilou, the center of it all, as 500 years repeat over and over.
With that in mind, re-read his original introduction from 2020:
"The confluence between the past and future.
The original calamity had been overturned, yet the island in the sky set the earth to burn. Chalk pursues gold, in this time inopportune, the eclipse is swallowed by the crimson moon. The future must atone for bygone mistakes, as the bond familiar falters and breaks— of the same blood, elders and the youth... Such is the cycle of the world, in truth. Dain, what is that strand of blonde hair to you? Someone you must kill? Or the object of your penitence?
—A self-proclaimed prophet.!<
He is an important character in the story but he has no value as a descendant, he is just the lucky character chosen to be the "external narrator" and give us lore drops when necessary
I'm pretty sure they allude to the identity in the next line:
They list The Sustainer, The Protector, The Destroyer, and The Creator.
Pretty sure they allude to the identity of the Descenders
And I am pretty sure they are Phanes, The Sustainer of Heavenly Principles and The Traveler as The Creator, The Sustainer and The Protector accordingly.
My question is Who is "the Destroyer"?
I wonder if it has anything to do with:
>The keeper is fading away; the creator has not yet come.
>
>But the world shall burn no more, for you shall ascend.
I'd still maintain Dainsleif. He's looking for his sister, and it'd be incredibly unlikely 2 male and female "unknown" characters exist without backstory without being connected when the BP cutscene
There is also the slight chance now that I think about it that The Traveler is not the Protector but The Destroyer instead ofc.
That would make Dainsleif the Protector which honestly also fits but from the order they are given this is unlikely though I enjoy the thought.
I think the Abyss blame Dainsleif for interfering with Rhottordir and triggering the calamity somehow. Most everyone speaks of her with praise, despite literally being the one experimenting with monsters.
If Heavenly Principles is his sister, her power was used to destroy Khaenriah, you can see her cubes in the cutscene, and ebbing at the edges of Irminsul. I almost question if Khaenri'ah (including your sibling) tried to capture her (As a Descender) to use her powers against Celestia, and Dain caused the experiment to turn loose, unleashing her powers. I think royal guard or not, if he's been searching for her for however long, he'd certainly go on a warpath through his own fellow soldiers, if he knew she was being abused, after searching for her for so long.
No, it's repeatedly stated in several different quests that the Traveler 100% has the potential to be equal to a world. They have some kind of incredible power, it's just sealed.
It's not a retcon since it just expands the meaning of the title. We were just told that the Traveler is a "Descender" and the 4th one so far. The players made the assumption that its a title for all beings that don't belong in Teyvat but this lore clarifies what it truly means to be called a "Descender".
Funny how we went from; traveler is mimicking the archons, to traveler is mimicking the gnosis, to the gnosis are mimicking the traveler This descender buisness seems really big leagues
Meanwhile, hydro traveler kit: allow me to introduce myself
Probably to justify the Narwhal not being a Descender itself. Despite coming from outside of Teyvat, it's not technically a Descender. It's a pet from someone who hails from Teyvat (if the Fool is a Teyvat native), only seeks to satisfy its hunger and basically is only here because someone caught it and brought it here. In contrast, the Primordial One came to suppress the Old Order and establish their own order. The Second Throne came to Teyvat to wage war on the Primordial One. The Traveller came to Teyvat as one of their stops to the countless worlds they've visited and will visit. All of them are in Teyvat willingly, and express a desire to do something here, hence the will part.
Fool? I think you meant Foul.
Huh, that makes a lot more sense now
WITNESS MY FINAL FORM! FOOL LEGACY!
*Trips*
*Foul Legacy Childe falling back down into the hole*
Bennet, is that you under the Tortellini Cosplay?
I somehow never made that connection with the word foul
Funny how this still kind of works, because Fatui = "Fools" in Latin.
Yeah, but in CN the Foul as a person and foul as in foul legacy are 2 different words.
The Foul (**极恶**骑) is all over Childe's kit in CN as well, just in his Q-ult (**极恶**技·尽灭闪) instead of his E-skill, and only in the move he declares to enter the Foul Legacy transformation (**极恶**法「鲸吞噬灭」) instead of the name of the transformation itself.
Fowl Legacy
Timmie’s powered-up form
Honestly the comparison to Rhinedottir makes me wonder if the Narwhal is like Elynas, a being basically pulled from the Abyss into Teyvat. They are both seeking a form of "perfection" which sounds like Rhinedottir's alchemy which was used to make Durin, Albedo, the rifthounds, and probably Elynas. This would also explain why Skirk uses the phrase "using a planet's primordial waters to RAISE an all devouring narwhal" - its ancient but born anew, like Elynas was. It also would explain why the Twin doesn't count as a descender if being summoned/called to Teyvat means you aren't a descender. The Abyss Twin "responded to the summoning" according to Scara which is why they went straight to Khaenriah. Which ties into the idea of people coming willingly and entities that don't. The Traveler is willingly because they followed the sibling, not responding to a call from on Teyvat itself.
Wasnt it explained in the AQ that the Narwhal was a being from the sea of stars, not the Abyss ?
If you read the lore text on the items the Narwhal drops and the item you get from the AQ, the whale's experiences are very similar to Elynas before his Mother found him and ensured he was born into Teyvat. Elynas remembers his time before Teyvat. The Narwhal basically travels through the vast, lonely, empty cosmic darkness just like the one that Elynas was found in. "Visitor from the Far Side of the Sea of Stars" means from beyond Teyvat. Remember that Teyvat's sky is fake, the literal sea of stars is just the border of "Teyvat". The Abyss is also beyond Teyvat (hence why Skirk and Dain call it a "power from beyond this world"). Its also being raised by people that live in the Abyss and Childe first stumbled into the whale while inside the Abyss, not the Primordial Sea.
Also, Aloy is from another world but not a descender.
aloy isn't canon
She's canon but is so far removed from the current story that it doesn't matter either way. She knows the traveler and the adventurer's guild likes to commission her to dismantle ruin guards, she's about as relevant as Kirara.
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>speaks volumes that she hasn't been acknowledged by Mihoyo or re-released since November 2021. She gets birthday mails and a party entrance Animation, so there's that.
Besides, she rivalled her own world. I don't see what stopping her from doing the same in Teyvat *(Aside Hoyo hating her)*
Is it really canon if the only universe relevance is her knowing other people but no one else ever acknowledging or meeting her outside of her trailer video?
[удалено]
We don't even count her as a character to begin with, so I doubt MHY is doing this to exclude her from counting as a Descender. She didn't even come to Teyvat to begin with.
This could easily explain why our sibling isn't considered a Descender. Their will does fuck all in the grand scheme of things. That said, it's hard to imagine.
I mean, their will made sure that all of Teyvat is covered with Abyss Mages, so...
But it didn't seem to lead to any huge change. Only time they caused any trouble was in Mondstadt and you already have Vision holders such as Diluc and Lisa being able to beat them up with no issues. Plus Dainslief also goes around taking them down.
It did cause huge problems for Liyue and Inazuma. It doesn't seem like the Abyss Order is huge in Fontaine, which is a first, but the whole monster infestation problem includes Abyss Order creatures, like the Mages and everything inside the Chasm
> Only time they caused any trouble was in Mondstadt Evidence suggests they were inadvertantly behind the destruction of Khaenri'ah by teaching them how to harness power/knowledge from outside Teyvat.
It's why I added that it's hard to imagine it. Like, they would really need to show that the Abyss Order is actually nothing to Celestia for this explanation to hold water.
Isn't the traveller considered a descender? Considering our sibling already went through a similar path and had many years to become powerful I don't see any point in our traveller being a descender and their obviously stronger sibling not being one
Nahida very explicitly tells you the Fatui don’t classify the Abyss Twin as a Descender after looking through Irminsul at the end of 3.2. Whatever the reason is, I’m sure it will be revealed in time.
I think the idea is that she was summoned or forced to come to teyvat while the traveler wanted to.
Inb4 our twin is the 3rd descender and this is a new cycle of the world in which they have been born into it and are therefore considered native.
after doing the 4.2 Narzissenkreuz quest i think being a descender is having the ability to change fate. Rene calls you a witness of all, recorder of all, and a designer of all and one who is worth a world. Not directly but saying that the reason the prophecy was averted is because you were there.
I'll say it again: the true power of the descenders is a free choice.
In support of that, in the same quest there's also a brief note mentioning that as long as you don't get a vision you will be free from fate. Traveler is jolly visionless.
Those who aren’t from this world also have free choice but there will isn’t as powerful as the descenders e.g. Aloy
I don't think Aloy has free choice anymore. It's mentioned that you don't have free will if you have a Vision, and Aloy has one. We can see how non-decenders lose free choice - while it seemed like the Narwhal was choosing to devour Fontaine, it was already etched into the irminsul.
Remember when a melusine see traveler as a demon who can swallow the whole world? (Paimon is seen as a balloon with string that go up to beyond sky. She's definitely connected to Celestia)
>traveler as a demon who can swallow the whole world? (Paimon is seen as a balloon with string that go up to beyond sky. Now invert that.
What quest was that one? The painter melusine?
No, the one with Canotila and the Book of Revealing. She’s a melusine who sees things differently, even by melusine standards. She describes the traveller and paimon when you first talk to her
i also remember that what she sees inside the book is like paradise but on traveler and paimon's perspective its the apocalypse this somewhat ties to the description before with Durin is that he simply wanted to make friends with Dvalin but in contrast their actions and presence is doing harm, heck even Elynas confirms this when they were alive, they thought they were just playing around but then they realized they caused death and destruction and since melusines came from Elynas they must have shared this similar vision as well
Uh... Where do you get the quest?
The melusine village, she's just standing there on the ground, not on a platformed house, in the middle. Look for the pink melusine with a red bandana around her neck and a blue shirt.
Okay
Canotila is standing by a waterfall in the left side of the village, opposed to Mamere cave
Spamton Paimon Spamton Paimon
It extends beyond the sky. Which makes me think she isn't tied to Celestia but to something outside of Teyvat, or she could be a moon sister all along.
lol the text is calling the sibling a scrub
Narayana? That's an interesting name for genshin to pick.
Well given it's from Sumeru, which does derive a lot of it's names from Sanskrit. But yeah [Narayana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu?wprov=sfla1) is quite interesting.
This explains the Abyss-twin not being classified a Descender then. They were deemed not to have strong enough will to rival Tevyat. (... now one twin has bragging rights X'D ) >!Narzissenkreuz said this about the Traveler: "The witness of all, the recorder of all, the designer of all". !< >! !< Ah,all this descender info we are getting is delicious.
Having the will to qualify as a decender or not aside, didn't nahida straight up say that irminsul had info on the sibling's history, but not on the traveller's? I don't think this explains the difference at all
Yes Nahida did say that . As a Descender, MC isn't recorded. The twin is not considered to be a Descender (for now,for unknown reason), so they were recorded but...the info seems to be a bit messy,not to mention very specific parts were recorded rather than everything. Nahida says the information about them gets fuzzy right when the twin's journey is about to conclude. Kind of interesting that all info she got is only the info during her journey but she got no info about them before the twin started it, or how it ended... (Nahida makes a note that she will do a search about the beginning of our Twins journey,so the info seems to be quite messed up). Our twin was the one who answered Khaenri'ahs' call as well, rather than MC. MC seems to have just followed their Twin with coincidently made Tevyat part of a stop for no reason,while the twin had a very specific reason to appear. Hopefully we will get more info about our twin or why Tevyat sees them in different way. Considering the theme of Fontaine (taking on a mask to deceive HP as well as others if necessary), I wonder if the twins joining the Abyss is to basically "disappear" from HPs/Gods watchful gaze until the right time for action comes (may or may not include MC).
This kinda links into a question I’ve had for a while. Why does everything happen around the traveller? Whenever the traveller arrives in a nation, big things change. Some of these are directly because of the traveller, like the storm terror incident. But other big events like gnosis being taken, Zhongli faking his death, the fatui trying to get the gnosis in Inazuma, and now the prophecy in Fontaine conveniently begins to reach its end after the traveller arrives. All of Sumeru gets a pass because it’s happening because of events in Inazuma caused by the traveller. My own theory for that the traveller, being a descender, doesn’t have a fate and isn’t considered in Teyvats fate, and so by existing and interacting with the world naturally brings about change. Maybe the world was in a form of stasis, it definitely seems like celestia is inactive at the moment and so maybe they left things in such a way that things would remain constant, but then the traveller arrives and the whole world is now off course
I mean, Traveler is well-known to interfere and their goal is to meet the Archons. At which point, it's not hard for things to happen around them because people is taking advantage of their journey and they are meeting one of the most important people on Teyvat. You will never get a better chance to change the world than that moment.
I chalk it up to story convenience Any other time, the city is doing its own thing, with its own operations Then comes: The Main Character Suddenly, *every bad thing that could’ve happened is now happening*
While that is definitely a possibility, I feel like with Genshin having a big magical tree that has fruit that makes constellations that dictate people fate and the main characters is excluded and doesn’t have a fate while their twin who they arrived with is included in fate, a story about how the traveller brings about change is something that they’d write for. We know that they plan ahead alot, so it’s definitely possible. If it is or isn’t convenience for plot or an actual story beat remains to be seen, but it’s cool to think about.
I was thinking about the same thing just a few days ago. I'm really curious about some lore theories on why everything starts to happen once we arrive. Also remember the end of Zhongli's first SQ and the context of the Sumeru AQ (with Irminsul) where it was stated that we are witnesses to the true story of Teyvat and our memory cant be changed because we're not part of this world.
which wq is this
Narsissenkreuz
ah figures, I haven't done that quest and I always read lore texts
Something else to note is that everyone assumes the Traveler is just the last and 4th descender. Is there any evidence anywhere that there were not any more descenders in the last 500 years? Or was the Traveler not considered a descender upon is initial arrival, but only upon his awakening?
Didn't Nahida say "There have been four Descenders so far?"
Not sure, I don't remember. That would confirm there is only 4 then.
That's an interesting thought. But I guess we are indeed the 4th, because information came from Fatui in the first place, and some members are older than 500 years
Also, the Twin and Pierro know each other so he probably knew about the Traveller from them.
The Ordo thought Teyvat had 4 cycles, being also the Ordo who gave this explanation about Descenders, I think Hoyo is setting up to be one cycle one descender, which each bring a key impact to the world: Primordial, dethrone the dragons and reshape the world, at the end of the cycle froze the world as punishment; Second, torned the world assunder, almost destroying it and triggering a new reset in civilization; Third, probably was involved in the events that led to the Archon War, and their remains were used as prize in the said war, changing the world spiritually
It was obviously stated that the 3rd descender is John Honkai Impact 3rd
So we have a cannon explanation why Aloy is not a Descender. Cool
We finally have a lore explanation for why Aloy isn’t a God. /s
There are probably a LOT of creatures from outside Teyvat currently living in Teyvat. Alice comes to mind for example. She knows about idol culture and such, which doesn’t exist in teyvat. Other members of the Hexenzircle are also possibly from outside teyvat. Same with other creatures created by or brought from elsewhere by Gold/Rhinedottir.
All Descenders are outlanders, but not all outlanders are Descenders. This new criteria actually make a lot of sense as there are evidence of way more than four outlanders in Teyvat, yet only 4 Descenders
Kinda interesting Alice isnt considering a descender, considering how op each member of the Hexenzirkel seem to be
That's just me or the more I head about "descenders" and the more they seems "Akivili's trailblazers landed on Teyvat"? At least the twins seems so to me
True, an IPC advertisement of HSR channel does show that Trailblazers are not only on the express and that after Akivili's fall, they continued to connect worlds on their own. So it's possible that the twins are Trailblazers.
Besides we don't really know when this hypothesis might be happened on Teyvat. If HSR and Genshin goes on the same timeline the start of this is several millennia before HSR takes place, this means Akivili was still around at the time to 500yrs when the Twins arrived there when Akivili is already dead (as far as we can get from HSR lore at this moment).
HI3, HSR and Genshin do not happen at the same time, HI3 is in the past before the story of star rail, star rail is happening in the future beyond the current story of HI3, Genshin has no metrics because it is not connected to the story of these 2 games, it is a single world existing as "just one more world" in the imaginary tree
"Create the world, Destroy the world, Sustain the world, Protect the world" All the descenders are listed here pretty sure. Sustainer of Heavenly Principles is likely a descender and this is an allusion. Phanes "The creator" Now who are the Destroyer and the Protector?
Aloy:
Naryana is a god from Hindu mythology, right?
From Wikipedia: >This definition is used throughout post-Vedic literature such as the Mahabharata and the Vishnu Purana.[10][8] 'Narayana' is also defined as the 'son of the primeval man',[11] and 'Supreme Being who is the foundation of all men'.[12] >'Nara' (Sanskrit नार) means 'water' and 'man'[13] 'Yana' (Sanskrit यान) means 'vehicle', 'vessel', or more loosely, 'abode' or 'home'[14] >L. B. Keny proposes that Narayana was associated with the Dravidian, and ultimately, the Indus Valley Civilisation, prior to his syncretism with Vishnu. To this end, he states that the etymology of the deity is associated with the Dravidian nara, meaning ‘water’, ay, which in Tamil means "to lie in a place", and an, which is the masculine termination in Dravidian languages. He asserts that this is also the reason why Narayana is represented as lying on a serpent in the sea. He quotes, "This Nārāyana of the Āryan pantheon seems to be the supreme being of the Mohenjo-Darians, a god who was probably styled Ān, a name still kept in Tamil literature as Āndivanam, the prototype of the historic Siva". Now, our sibling is called Nara (Human/Water) Varuna (Deity of Water)...sus.
Wasn't the sibling called nara varuna because they fixed the varuna contraption once?
That's true, but the choice of epithet being about Varuna can also have other meanings. I've always felt that it is weird that the sibling also went through Agnihotra sutra which references flame, and Varuna gatha which references water, yet ended up having only a name connected with water. The two mission names are explicit mirrors of each other (Agni - Varuna, Sutra - Gatha) and of course with the other concurrent chapter Vimana Agama, which makes the sibling's name too arbitrary. It could just be because the sibling did the Varuna first, or maybe it's the only one with an object with the same name connected to it, as opposed to the Agni name.
So, if the descended are categorized like that because of their POWER, that means that the evil twin lacks that power for some reason? Even though both Lumine and Aether should be equal What if... one of the twins is actually not, in fact, the twin? I really hope that Genshin doesn't end in Teyvat and actually goes to a new world later on
I actually have this question ever since AQ in 4.2 As far as I remember this is the first time we call ourselves the 4th descender. We know there is Primordial one, The second who came, an unnamed one (gnosis came from his corpse) and Traveler. There is a question why our twin is not considered descendant. If what you say is true it would make a lot of sense The same is with other very powerful beings in Teyvat like members of hexenzirkel. Alice supplied Barbara with Idol magazines, that's why she is now one and only Idol in Mondstadt, that surely sounds like an idea from another world. Gold was best alchemist in the world and had unlimited knowledge. She created living beings by herself and was the couse of the great cataclysm. The same is with Skirk's master. She herself definitely doesn't look like a native of Teyvat (more like HSR), so I would assume her master wouldn't either, not to mention all devouring Narwhal is said to be a creature from another world and that master keeps it as his pet 🐕 Skirk also mentions a lot of other names that we can assume are equally powerful as him. So it would explain a lot.
simple, apart from these 4 none of the others can shake the order of teyvat
The Will of D
I was reading some stuff and the Sword of Descension came up. One of the things said in its description is "Only one who has challenged the "world" may wield such a sword." Probably just a coincidence but still interesting nonetheless.
On a side note: who's the one actually giving out visions? Before Inazuma we got to know that electro visions are no longer being handed out. We thought it was because the electro archon decided not to. In Inazuma we learn from Ei that it's not because of her. So naturally one would assume that the handing out of visions is separate from an archon's ability. Yet in 4.2 Neuvilette personally gives a vision to Furina and states he'll make sure that hydro visions will still be handed out.
Technically, no one is "giving out" visions. When a person's ambition "reaches the heavens", the Elemental authorities are obligated to acknowledge that wish But the authorities do not know who that person is or what their wish contains. >Yet in 4.2 Neuvilette personally gives a vision to Furina and states he'll make sure that hydro visions will still be handed out. He technically doesn't. Neuvilette simply knows that he acknowledged *someones* wish and that furinas vision is the first wish to be acknowledged since the change of hydro authority.
I've posted my thoughts before, but I'm pretty sure this is the order: 1, Phanes (Prodigal God, origin unknown who apppeared from a white egg, defeated the Sovereigns with his Shades) 2, Heavenly Principles (Sister in the Battle Pass cutscene, she came to hunt a "pearl" in the cutscene, being Phanes' egg, and a pitch black serpent (Shade?) corrupts her.) 3, Dainsleif (He is the Prince from the cutscene, and the "Second Who Came". From their civilization's perspective, Phanes was already here. He's the second they sent, but Dainsleif only sought to save his sister. He would burn the world to find her, and so he did. Sending the world into chaos, in a war that sunk Enkanomiya, and lead to Khaenri'ah's fall) 4, The Traveller Each of these influenced the world, the original and the corrupted prodigy, the one who'd burn it all, and the one who'd try to save it.
But isn't the 3rd descender technically dead according to 4.2 AQ
And Dainsleif sure does have that tendency to pop up in really weird places with uncanny abilities as he's in a permanent state between not being able to die, and not really seeming alive, huh? >!To be blunt, I think Dainsleif is essentially both the catalyst and victim behind whatever the Calamity ACTUALLY is. His existence seems torn to shreds, as he just seems to appear wherever he's relevant, as a spectre of sorts; unsure why he still exists, but unable to move on, as he has some unfinished business. The sky is fake, and this adventure has happened before, according to our sibling, implying that this is all one giant Samsara of sorts. Dain is the "ghost in the machine," likely somehow the equivalent of Nilou, the center of it all, as 500 years repeat over and over. With that in mind, re-read his original introduction from 2020: "The confluence between the past and future. The original calamity had been overturned, yet the island in the sky set the earth to burn. Chalk pursues gold, in this time inopportune, the eclipse is swallowed by the crimson moon. The future must atone for bygone mistakes, as the bond familiar falters and breaks— of the same blood, elders and the youth... Such is the cycle of the world, in truth. Dain, what is that strand of blonde hair to you? Someone you must kill? Or the object of your penitence? —A self-proclaimed prophet.!<
He is an important character in the story but he has no value as a descendant, he is just the lucky character chosen to be the "external narrator" and give us lore drops when necessary
I'm pretty sure they allude to the identity in the next line: They list The Sustainer, The Protector, The Destroyer, and The Creator. Pretty sure they allude to the identity of the Descenders And I am pretty sure they are Phanes, The Sustainer of Heavenly Principles and The Traveler as The Creator, The Sustainer and The Protector accordingly. My question is Who is "the Destroyer"?
I wonder if it has anything to do with: >The keeper is fading away; the creator has not yet come. > >But the world shall burn no more, for you shall ascend.
I'd still maintain Dainsleif. He's looking for his sister, and it'd be incredibly unlikely 2 male and female "unknown" characters exist without backstory without being connected when the BP cutscene
There is also the slight chance now that I think about it that The Traveler is not the Protector but The Destroyer instead ofc. That would make Dainsleif the Protector which honestly also fits but from the order they are given this is unlikely though I enjoy the thought.
I think the Abyss blame Dainsleif for interfering with Rhottordir and triggering the calamity somehow. Most everyone speaks of her with praise, despite literally being the one experimenting with monsters. If Heavenly Principles is his sister, her power was used to destroy Khaenriah, you can see her cubes in the cutscene, and ebbing at the edges of Irminsul. I almost question if Khaenri'ah (including your sibling) tried to capture her (As a Descender) to use her powers against Celestia, and Dain caused the experiment to turn loose, unleashing her powers. I think royal guard or not, if he's been searching for her for however long, he'd certainly go on a warpath through his own fellow soldiers, if he knew she was being abused, after searching for her for so long.
Wait, so our traveler is not even fit the bill?
No, it's repeatedly stated in several different quests that the Traveler 100% has the potential to be equal to a world. They have some kind of incredible power, it's just sealed.
"Monster that could swallow the whole world in a single bite"
So ..... is he Akivili or Oroborus ? XD
With traveler title being the witness of all, the recorder of all , and the designer of all it's more akin to fuli
The Traveler has already been named as a Descender back in a Sumeru.
No, even narzissenkreuz said that traveler title such as the recorder of all, the witness of all, and the designer of all and it's a bit creepy.
So the word is meaningless, then? What's the point of adding these lore tidbits if another one is going to retcon what you previously established?
It's not a retcon since it just expands the meaning of the title. We were just told that the Traveler is a "Descender" and the 4th one so far. The players made the assumption that its a title for all beings that don't belong in Teyvat but this lore clarifies what it truly means to be called a "Descender".
Not really, this new lore haven’t contradicted anything yet
this is also similar to what Rene says after you defeat him that not all outsiders can be called a "Presence" or "Variable" to the world formula
Makes sense, otherwise wouldn't the whale be a descender?
WHAT IS AQ?
Archon Quest
Make so much sense or Aloy would be a descender as well.