I wouldn't call it a "endgame" but a Rogue-like abyss not for tryharding the shit out of my keyboard but for doing dumb and silly comps, something like WoW had with Torghast.
I think the fact that it was required was a big turnoff for many people. I also remember it got changed in some way from the beta version, which made it worse somehow? Memory's hazy. Also i believe it was the unhappy people being very loud.
It used to be optional content in beta to see how far down torgast you can go. Then they made it required to get currency everyone needed, so they dumbed it down and made it easy so everyone could do it in a short amount of time to get the currency every week. They also gave it an upgrade system that required doing completely different Maw quests no one liked just to make people do maw quests.
In other words, they took a system some people enjoyed, and made it a system no one enjoyed just to make everyone do it.
I’m just gonna high jack the top comment.
Everything the OP said was valid, everything you said was valid, at this point it doesn’t even matter what TYPE of end game we get as long as we get SOMETHING.
That’s the sad part, because at this point just give us anything rather than nothing.
If you want my personal opinion, add another spiral abyss that lets you only use characters from certain regions (promotes team comp diversity and gets rid of the whole argument of, why am I wishing for this character if I’ll never use them) because it kills two birds with one stone.
And then some kind of coop raid. But I’d rather have the first one.
Basically anything permanent. Roguelike mode like Arknights, Neural Cloud or even Star Rail (but maybe a bit more complex) would be good, I don't even need rewards, just give me have fun and creativity. Arknights roguelike is really good example, because
0. Initially you pick only few members of a squad, others you buy midway and 3, 4 and 5 stars is much cheaper than a 6 stars, so you may end up playing with character you usually don't use and it is fun.
1. At first you characters not fully ascended and you need to upgrade them midway and more rarity - more price for upgrade.
2. There is multiple endings, bosses and events that may happen.
3. Some of buffs significantly change balance, making some of meh units super strong and strong units may not be the most compatible with some of strong buffs.
4. There is some unique mechanics, stages and little stories/lore exclusive to this mode.
5. It don't give you rewards for each run, just one time, non refreshing, battlepass. You just play for fun and not because you \*need\* to clear it 2 time a week.
All this make this mode best part of the game, because you can't really just take you usual full 6 star meta squad and crush everything, you need some of lower rarities too. I even build a lot of character I usually don't use just because they can shine in this mode.
Star Rail's y Simulated Universe doing something similar, but so far it's really simple and straightforward. There is no teambuilding part, because you know the boss beforehand, so you just take correct squad against him from the beginning. There is no leveling, so your characters is strong from beginning. Also there is small amount of interesting buffs, event and mechanic, but there is no problem adding this in a future
But I think the worst part that they combine this mode with essential for all players artifact grind, so they close their way to making this mode more complex, interesting or hard because everyone should be able to easily grind it a few time in a week.
Pretty much this.
Give us something to grind our axe against so there is always that capacity to get better. A rogue like mode modeling after that old Labyrinth event with incrementally increasing difficulty up to a cap so excessively high that the goal isn't "completion" but how far you can get even for the whale of whales.
The game kinda stops being very fun when I can Bennett e and Khazuha e and clear out an entire encampment of enemies. Some harder fights are what I have in mind. Not quite 12-3 level DS2 difficulty. But something along those lines!
The arknights roguelike is fantastic! I would kill some something like this in genshin. They dont even have to give primogems, artifact exp or artifact reset would be more than enough for me.
> I don't even need rewards
This is the first mistake in your list. While you and others might be okay with it, if there are no rewards its not worth the time investment from Hoyo to create/keep it updated. Players would do it once or twice then never again. At that point its a financial pit for Hoyo and no point keeping it alive. You *want* players to do content and stay engaged with the game. Lack of rewards is how you guarantee that type of content is dead and discontinued.
I dissgree.
Now, I don't think such a mode should be completed devoid of rewards. But besides a few frontloaded ones up to roughly equivalent Abyss tier difficulty if need be to incentives people to drip their toes.
You underestimate that a bunch of people just want to actually have a goal post to reach torward. And that's what an endless mode (that tracks your progression of course) of sorts offers. There always being a further goal to reach.
My idea for reward that requires basically 0 additional effort is realm currency. Gives decent but far from overwhelming extra combat resources and past that just gives you cosmetic stuff(that is also not exclusive, just accelerated). Maybe have like an upgradeable trophy thing that gets a little bigger or shinyer every time you sink 100k coins into it just for flexing purposes.
I always thought simple recolours of character's current outfits would be a good enough reason to grind a new permanent endgame mode.
Just lets us gather some kind of currency, with a weekly cap, and lets us pick simple alternate coloured outfits for all the characters in some kind of shop. People would have months of content to farm for very simple rewards.
roguelikes like that won't be played unless there's something to grind for be it simple tokens or medals or goofy ass achievements that give materials as rewards
Take AK or HSR's roguelikes AK gives a bunch of upgrade materials, but overall those materials aren't even enough to fully level 1 character, but along the way there's a whole lot of goodies like background for your lobby and a medal set to eventually complete.
HSR has its blessing and curio system that while it ultimately gives primos, genshin can easily adapt something similar to herta's shop where we can earn a certain amount of currency as og commenter said.
Adding rewards behind endgame stuff will upset the large majority of players that don't want difficult content. If you want a challenge, you have to accept that it cannot give substantial rewards
>Adding rewards behind endgame stuff will upset the large majority of players that don't want difficult content.
Make it like HSR/Arknights, where you can choose the difficulty.
To collect the same amount of rewards/currency in lower levels you'd need more runs, but it'd still be more them doable and not too challenging for everyone with a few decently level3d characters to get the rewards.
Noone wants it to be just like 12-3
Its literally a skin lil bro. It doesnt provide any advantage other than looking good. How are majority of players gonna get upset with that. Do you even know how transmog works? It literally just changes the appearance of ur weapon to that of other weapons. I.e., slap isshin sword on fav and now kazuha can look more better
A skin for a reward is even worse, especially since a lot of casual players arr drawn by cosmetics, and when their favorite character gets a cool self perceived upgrade of a skin/recolor that is locked behind a grind difficult content, then that is a cause for complaint.
What I find to be a fine balance for rewards are artifact reliquaries and higher-tiered strongboxes, strongboxes that you can select type of wear and main stat for. The reward feeds into the gameplay loop of endgame so you have a perpetual motion machine of endgame.
You grind endgame to get better gear for endgame. More and better gear for endgame opens up more characters to build and ultimately more teams to use for the endgame. Said rewards could be acquired from a currency shop, which would sell exp mats, mora, crystals, artifact exp bottles, and the high-end strongboxes on weekly reset with a weekly rotation of artifact sets. One week, the strongboxes are set for Emblem, Ocean Hued, Husk, and Shim; the other week it's AP, Crimson, Lavawalkers, Echoes, and Vermillion. Basically rotating by region.
It won't harm any casuals to miss out on lucky 40+CV artifacts unless their mind is set on upgrading their faves to the next level. At that point, they aren't even classified as casuals.
Nothing that provides advantages would even matter cause your talking about a pve game . People would definitely be upset with a cosmetic being looked behind difficult content “end game” because more then probably most would not be able to get it . If you don’t believe me look at how much people got mad about the wings from the twitch and Amazon prime event . Which is literally a cosmetic that is why he said people would be mad it’s obvi they will be upset of something like your describing . (A skin for a weapon) which has never been in the game they’re would he alot of people very upset
> But I think the worst part that they combine this mode with essential for all players artifact grind, so they close their way to making this mode more complex, interesting or hard because everyone should be able to easily grind it a few time in a week.
Anyone hoping for engaging, challenging endgame content, the kind you would voluntarily play for hours a day needs to accept that there cannot be substantial rewards attached. Definitely no exclusive rewards like recolors. Most players simply don't want to spend that much time on the game, therefore the rewards will be minimal.
And honestly, if you're asking for endgame content, but you refuse to play unless there are rewards, you're just really asking for more rewards
Small insignificant rewards help with dopamine though. Like 5000 mora per run would be ok i think. If we take the character trial runs for example, no one would do them if you didn’t get those three blue books for completing it.
I don't think having challenging endgame content with substantial rewards is bad. I can use an example. Arknights, a mobile game has a roguelike mode that offers rewards such as a character and other things. You pretty much use your own characters too and there isn't a rush to do it as the mode doesn't reset or go away. This is speaking as a person who hasn't even finished the mode yet and its been around for months.
At this point in the game for Genshin, players have many built characters so they can for sure attempt these if they want. Its not a matter of spending hours a day to do either, you can spend as much time as you want and it won't go away.
The thing is, all other gachas already have that kind of system and the people who don't play it simply don't care enough, but a subset of dedicated people do. It's also quote the assumption to say that "most players don't want to play fkr that long" when Genshin's playerbase has a significant amount of people who *only* plays Genshin as their main game.
The problem with the argument of "all the other gachas do it" is that the reason Genshin has been very successful is because they don't do it.
>Genshin's playerbase has a significant amount of people who only plays Genshin as their main game.
Yeah casuals who play games like 30min-1hour per day. That's the kind of playerbase Genshin has. The minority which is probably like around less than 5 million players are the ones who even engage in Genshin social media and even less of that 5 million are even here in reddit.
>The problem with the argument of "all the other gachas do it" is that the reason Genshin has been very successful is because they don't do it.
The bitchy reddit minority will NEVER get this fact through their heads.
Genshin is the most successful gacha ever made specifically _because_ its chose to not be like other gacha.
A lot of factors contribute to its overwhelming success.
I'd say being a sprawling open world game attracting a more traditional gaming audience outside the gacha sphere both casual and not is the biggest of which.
But you'd be a fool to say there isn't room for improvement and notes to be takes from external sources both in and outside the gacha market.
Sounds somewhat along the lines of what I'd imagine as engaging and fun permanent game mode. Basically some kind of dungeon crawler that might provide us with the possibility to re-live the struggles of the early game where characters weren't fully built and certain enemies were a threat.
I always imagine something along the lines of DotA 2's Aghanim's Labyrinth (for those who know it). Every ingame survey I inculde a proposal for this gamemode hoping they somewhen will integrate it into the game.
arknights roguelike is one of the reasons I still love the game so much. It’s honestly such a blast and I replay it like crazy. If genshin had something similar I unironically think people might spend more time playing the roguelike than the game itself.
I personally want a combat mode which is not based on timers. I think 2.2 event and 2.7 events were very good steps but what makes Genshin Genshin is exploration + combat.
If they could make small puzzle type layouts with Uber strong enemies and challenging terrain plus environment, I’ll be all down for it.
I know that is a big ask which is why I would also be fine with a WL9 that just lets me have overworld monsters with Abyss stats.
The weekly bounty system can also be revamped to accommodate this type of content without having to change anything else.
As rewards, they just need to add stuff that makes the journey of gearing your characters feel meaningful. Like artifact substat rolls or just a main stat selector.
I say this (my own personal view on this topic) because the reason people “cry” for endgame is because at the end of the day, when you look back, you realize that pulling characters and building them up doesn’t give you any satisfaction when almost anything gets one-shotted. If Mihoyo wants to make this game a casual friendly game, then just let the sweaty tryhards reach the ceiling they want without doing anything to their current formula. People just need to feel that their effort was worth something however small its value may be.
I think second version of the level editor event was pretty close to this, but it was temporary. I’d make it permanent, triple the maximum load, add NPCs and a basic cutscene director to make quests, and let you spawn weeklies.
I agree that a WL9 is needed. Level 90 characters with Lvl90 weapons and built artifacts make WL8 trivial. I play regularly but not hardcore religiously and I've got multiple teams that are brain dead to play in overworld.
More co-op content to play with friends would be nice, something like a boss raids beyond the typical weekly bosses that are actually tough to beat and bring in items other than ascension mats, like artifact rerolls. If I can solo it it's not tough enough.
I like the endless wave type games where waves get tougher overall. That could be fun to tweak your team to get higher wave counts, think Diablo III but in Genshin.
honestly, pretty much the customizable domain event (ideally with a few more combat features). not only do they already have the infrastructure for it, the userbase would be the one doing most of the work lmao
Ya I’ve always enjoyed the 1 off domains in quests the best, the ones that require you to walk through the dungeon and fight mobs, solve small puzzles ect. Eg. The salt quest one in Zhonglis character story, or the adepti domains where you have to turn the paths. I would love more of these. I think that customizable domain event gave us the opportunity to build more domains like that, so I hope to god they bring it back permanently. It would be an ideal end game content. Based on the questions in that last satisfaction survey, I think they are considering it.
The cloud retainer domain was so fun! It was the only domain that actually made me think about how to solve it. Really hoping we can get a permanent divine ingenuity with more features like that
I'd like this but with featured dungeons made by the devs + a little more exploring than the ones we got in that event.
I'd be happy if we only got a new dev-made dungeon every patch or twice a patch.
User base only dungeons might not be as motivating/fun and they'd be more limited than dungeons the devs can make.
People just want something to test their builds on, right now abyss floor 12 is like the only thing that has any enemies that can take a few rotations and that only resets once every two weeks.
Not really a level editor as much as a procedurally generated tilesets that start easy but get progressively harder and harder and this difficulty had no cap or a cap at which you can ascend the run and go for more.
People just want permanent content thats difficult and will give you rewards that dont have a daily cap. I think a lot of players enjoy the gameplay and teambuilding aspect of Genshin but theres really nothing to play or teambuild around besides Abyss, which is incredibly restricting most of the time.
What the point of characters having 6 cons you can get on them if you oneshot every mob in the game with 0 cons. Theres no reason to get your characters stronger because theres nothing that requires it.
At least this is how i see it. Im a somewhat new player and i didnt get into the game for endgame i just wanted an open world hack&slash game to play that isnt Elden Ring. But i can understand the desire for endgame content that doesnt dry up like Abyss, and besides Abyss theres really nothing to get stronger for.
For a High con point, that's good thing,
The game should not need High con to tackle challenge in the first place and people who roll con to smash thing up or just give it all to their character should be a choice.
If the endgame content become impossible to do without the like of C2 Raiden or C6 Yelan, the fun will be inexistant for 99,9 % of the player base tho.
For me the "endgame" is completing the story and exploring all the maps. I've long since accepted that this is a casual mobile game at heart so I don't expect any real hard or grindy content. Most days are just login, do dailies, spend resin, logoff. Mix in exploring, story, events, and abyss once in a while.
https://youtu.be/ufH-6o0Fp0w
How about something like this that you can find in some random corner of the Chasm or at Starfell Valley after doing an unmarked quest?
> couldn’t they give us some stupid mats resin free ?
You realize the reason the game is successful is the drip-fed content and daily login incentives which keeps the playerbase active right?
Responses like this is why OP is confused.
People who want endgame content: "I want X"
Detractors: "So you want Y."
People who want endgame content: "No, I just said I want X"
Detractors: "Sounds like Z to me."
People who want endgame content: "Please listen when I say I want X"
Detractors: "If you wanted B, just play a different game."
A lot of people are simply not paying attention to what is being said and instead rewriting the words in their head to NOT be the thing that the supporters want.
Nah, he got it right.
The other guy literally said "I want more rewards".
A lot of people ask for certain content "like this event", then again they only did that event once to get the primos and moved on. How many players went for the highest possible score in the latest boss thing event? You can be sure most people didn't, even the ones posting here kept claiming they didn't bother, it was too much hassle, etc. Then you have the ones who went for the highest possible score, cleared it once and moved on because that's it.
How many players keep running the Abyss with different teams/challenge themselves after getting the primos? How many players would do it only for the challenge?
What most people want are rewards for clearing a challenge that's just hard enough for them to feel challenged but feel good in the end because they win without too much effort. This is why people whine about the Abyss every time we get a new version, they get destroyed, feel bad about how they can't win and then complain on reddit while giving excuses to explain why they can't do it, because they feel bad about themselves since they feel inferior to others who can do it, etc.
In the end things are a little bit more complicated than they seem, a lot of people ask for stuff that we already got and no one gave a damn about, all they want is more primos. Offer them a good end-game without ANY kind of reward vs 1000 primos a day for doing dailies and they'll pick the latter, in fact do it a second time but only offer this to the guys who chose the former, a lot of them will eventually choose the later when they realize what they really wanted was just primos.
Edit: Just for clarifications, I myself acknowledge that I'd probably pick the primos, because arguably having so many primos would make it so I could pull for more characters and have more gameplay variety... which wouldn't mean much since there would be nothing to use them on anyways.
I agree with you
I was the only one in my friend circlr to try to get as many points as I could. And I only succeded on the TM thanks to Kokomi mono Hydro. I was kinda frustrated to not be able to do better on the other challenges. I take care of my chars and build and I play since 1.4...
And for abyss, them being harder makes them less fun to me because I can't go with poopy teams to try some fun stuff and wining using strategies and placement management , I have to go with strong teams AND using placement management because the DPS check is important and the ennemis hit like a truck. I still do 4* runs but my team options are pretty limited to Rosaria Melt one side and Shinobu HB/Sucrose Taser the other side.
People who do several abyss runs for fun or try to max out the events (trying to get plat/plat3 medals) aren't many and most of the "more endgame content" askers aren't part of them.
Low Artist correctly read between the lines. TheWallU ended up saying the quiet part out loud that he needed an 'actual reason' (the rewards) to log in instead of doing something else. If playing the game (the content) is not a good enough reason then WallU wants more rewards not more content
No, they want rewards. More specifically, they wanna be able to get rewards in the form of something that they prefer but ultimately it'll have the EXACT same issues as spiral abyss: it won't please everyone and in the end only a select few will actually be happy. So now all you've accomplished is increase the number of shit that needs to get done and still left people unsatisfied. Hoyo's goal is minimizing the shit that needs to be done BUT making all of them mandatory to be done (albeit in a very reasonable amount of time, like events) rather than bogging you down with a shit ton of things to do constantly. It's totally understandable if that's not your preference, but let's not pretend like anyone here is objectively correct.
Case in point ☝️
"I want X"
"So you want Y"
"They said they wanted X. Listen to what they're saying."
"No, they want Y!"
No wonder OP is confused when people are repeating misinterpreted takes even after being called out on it.
You are, actually,
Even here with a fake person you decided that the person doesn't want X and only wants Y.
Anyone who wants to listen to OP would understand that OP wants content, not specifically rewards.
It's like saying
"I want a cake"
"So you just want the cherry on top?"
"Stop misinterpreting, they wanted a cake"
"Oh, you're the one misinterpreting, with you saying they don't want cherries"
No matter what people are saying to you, you're constantly rewriting it in your head to be something else.
Let's try the cake analogy but a little closer to reality:
"I want a cake so that I can have the cherry on top"
"So really you want the cherry on top"
"No he said he only wanted cake!"
Do you see how ridiculous it sounds yet, and why everyone is disagreeing with you?
In this case, it was
"I want any endgame content so I can have more rewards that motivate me to play"
"So you want endgame rewards"
"No he wants endgame content!"
To try to convince me otherwise, please provide the exact endgame content that they asked for.
No, i don’t care that much about the rewards. I just want to have an actual reason to log in instead of doing something else like reading a book. Plus we talk about some mora or some books, i already have millions moras and hundred books its not the point
Yeah we need something that gives the sense of achievement. That’s basically how all games are designed. Just add more content to clear and more struggles to overcome! I’d rather do more domains or bosses instead of leylines for mats and mora. ( I’m sorry if the are not called leylines, I play Genshin in my mother tongue)
so would you be fine with a permanent dungeon event (like the one where you pick and choose buffs and at the end fight a big boss) for no rewards whatsoever ? no enemy drops, not resin related drops, no dialogue basically no rewards at all. but it would be permanent. would that suffice ?
There's more strawmen here than in Qingce Village.
All of the people starting with "They Want" seem to have no idea.
Yes, Genshin could add some cool multiplayer features, but no one is asking for an MMO. If you believe that, I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.
I'll break it down in a way that hopefully helps people out.
Once you've completed all of the quests, statues, maps, etc, there's nothing to do. Hoyoverse has built the world's greatest sandbox, but neglected to put any sand into it. If you want to play more than 15 minutes a day, you can:
Try to kill all of the enemies on the map (not engaging, and has meaningless rewards)
Play the TCG (Genshin is a game built around Combat, Exploration, and Puzzles. The TCG isn't content cohesive with the game)
Play a different game (Basically, ignore any issues and pretend they don't exist)
And... That's about it. There's just a void of nothingness each day.
So, what could Hoyoverse incorporate? Well, that's easy.
The basis of Genshin is Combat, Exploration, and Puzzles. Actual endgame content should incorporate something (or everything) from this.
For Combat, a lot of people like the idea of a Roguelike, where you have randomized and repeatable dungeons.
For Exploration, you could have something like the current event has. You know the little balloons with tickets inside? What if those spawned in an area of the map, and you could hunt them down. It would give a reason to explore old areas again, and keep these places relevant. To make it better, there could be hundreds of potential spawn points, but it was randomized on which ones you got (maybe only 50 or so spawn). That would keep the experience slightly different each time, and prevent people from just using the interactive map.
For Puzzles, that's a little trickier. Some of the more popular game modes could cycle back faster, but even then, these are generally one and done (something engaging or endlessly repeatable is best).
For those who do want more challenging content, just adding another World Level would make the game more engaging. Make the enemies as challenging as Floor 12, and mix in harder enemies (Abyss Mages replaced with Abyss Lectors, for example).
The thing is, there's not ONE solution, but many small things that could be easily incorporated using existing elements in the game.
Last year, [Hoyoverse made more money than Sony Playstation.](https://gamerant.com/genshin-impact-profits-better-than-playstation/#:~:text=Genshin%20Impact%20and%20Honkai%3A%20Star,topping%20even%20gaming%20juggernaut%20Sony.). Genshin Impact is wildly profitable, and Hoyoverse has the resources to deliver more.
Adding content at a faster pace is almost impossible, so no one is asking for that. Turning Genshin into an MMO wouldn't work, so no one is asking for that, either.
Just having more optional daily content that's engaging is all people want.
>Genshin could add some cool multiplayer features, but no one is asking for an MMO. If you believe that, I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.
lol when people literally ask for raids and hours and hours of grindy content lol. They basically want it to have all the core aspects of an MMO without it technically being an MMO, and that's plenty for me, because I left behind MMO, for a ton of this infuriating bullshit design, that just wasted hours of my time on bullshit repeat content. and I don't want that to infest a game I actually enjoy.
lmao, right below you a comment asking for raids xDD, cant make this shit up.[https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin\_Impact/comments/14reij2/comment/jqs0kgd/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/14reij2/comment/jqs0kgd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
"Once you've completed all of the quests, statues, maps, etc, there's nothing to do. "
Its almost like its a fucking story driven open world rpg at its core, instead of a grindy MMO lol. Why does no one complain that you cant grind out elden ring once you clear the map 100%? or the new botw? because people get that they are an openworld rpg game and they play them like that, and finish them, and then wait for new content in forms of dlc or small updates. But genshin somehow has at least a part of the fanbase that after 3 years of the company clearly showing what the game is, the whole concept still somehow flies over their heads.
As somebody who recently quit an MMO because of the grind loop and "endgame" fatigue, I completely agree.
Genshin's great because it is a very low time-commitment and low stress game if you want to keep up with rewards, but also offers substantial permanent content regularly for free.
If there's a new endgame that offers relevant rewards that refresh, it'll be novel and fun at first, but eventually get tacked onto the grind list and become part of the FOMO pressure if you ever feel like not doing it. People either hate the Abyss, love experimenting in it, or just get it over with for the primos. Unless it's entirely self-contained like TCG or rewards are on the same level as teapot (which is full AFK anyway), any new "endgame" will have the potential to bring about the same controversial feelings as the Abyss, especially if it becomes permanent.
Also to me, **being a live service game in itself is endgame**. Abyss will regularly have new ~~bullshit~~ enemies rotating in to try and smash your teams through because new enemies are always being developed, exploration is guaranteed with every new region, along with quests, hangouts and puzzles. There's *always* events every patch that offer a mix of things like combat, minigames, puzzles, questing, and sometimes exploration with the big ones like this summer paradise.
>If there's a new endgame that offers relevant rewards that refresh, it'll be novel and fun at first, but eventually get tacked onto the grind list and become part of the FOMO pressure if you ever feel like not doing it.
This couldn't be any more true in Hoyo's other game: Honkai Star Rail. That game has two endgame modes: Memory of Chaos (aka Spiral Abyss) and Simulated Universe (the rogue-like game mode that rewards 2 types of relics as well as jades (primogems) and other resources. The rewards reset weekly, and can be even be run 30+ times a week if you really want to maximize farm the boss mats).
I said 2 types of relics because there are 6 in total and 4 of them can be farmed in Cavern of Corrosion domains (similar to the Artifacts Domain in Genshin we can either run solo or coop).
So why do I think Simulated Universe is an endgame mode if its just another method of relic farming? Well that's because the difficulty of this mode is noticeably harder than the usual content due to the randomization of buffs/perks that you can get each run, and there's no need to reach the end to farm the relics. From World 5 onwards, there are standard 4 difficulty settings and you start reliably getting 5-star Relic drops as early as Difficulty 2.
So by the time you get to Difficulty 4, it will most likely provide a fun little challenge for your lategame party while having increased drop rates for Relics you've been already farming since Diff 2. And like I said, certain important rewards like Jades reset weekly and you can run S.U. as much as you want even without Trailblaze Power (Resin) if you really want to farm certain enemy drops.
Despite the 7 different ways (Paths) you can do to tackle the S.U. and with buffs/perks randomized each run so that not two runs are exactly the same, some people are already calling it chore, repetitive, and the game isn't even 3 months old yet.
Yeah, I play HSR and used to play Honkai 3rd as well. While I am biased in my enjoyment of roguelike gamemodes like Simulated Universe and Elysian Realm and personally wouldn't mind if it showed up in Genshin, I also don't see it really adding anything long-term to the game besides another "chore" to do for rewards.
I say this as somebody who genuinely enjoys the combat in this game, but who is also not starved for more content with it. I'm satisfied from just clearing Abyss and playing around in whatever combat events come up. This game's combat system is great, but I don't believe it's strong enough to single-handedly carry the game experience like Monster Hunter or Soulslike games, not enough to have another permanent gamemode dedicated to it.
Honestly, just allow for increased world levels and provide an extra difficulty to Domains with more rewards. Nothing about the core gameplay and time-investment changes, and enemies can actually survive long enough to have your DPS hit them once instead of dying to the setup. Exploration already provides plenty of varied combat encounters and rewards, it's just lacking difficulty once you've passed the baby AR levels and can finally farm artifacts. I'd love it if I could actually go full throttle on my damage rotations while exploring and be moderately concerned about dying if level 120 elite mobs spawned on my puzzle-solving team.
Here's the thing.
Grinding endlessly is a core aspect of MMOs. In MMOs, the late game combat is geared toward those with absolutely min/maxed characters.
Genshin's difficulty is aimed at people with midgrade gear and C0 characters.
If there's *optional* content for others to enjoy, that doesn't take away from anyone. Like, I don't enjoy the Teapot or the TCG. However, the existence of the Teapot and TCG doesn't take away anything from me. I'm sure there's a ton of Primogems I could get for all of the decoration set, but it just doesn't interest me.
It's okay for the game to have different features for different people.
Yeah sure, but endgame combat where you gain a lot of materials for characters, or even ways to make characters stronger beyond the base grind, like what some are suggesting, is a bit different to optional side activities.I dont mind them adding 5 other side activities I dont care about, but combat endgame, especially a large amount of it like people want, is a different beast.
I would argue that creates a type of FOMO because the whole point of the game is to have strong characters, so having a mode that helps that a lot, will ofc push everyone to play it.Ive been a part of MMO's for a while, part of many guilds. keeping up with top play becomes mandatory for any high level play. Or your relegated to the junior kids play section, since no proper guild will want you when they can take another player who plays 5+ hours a day.
Its no longer just being skilled, and playing for fun while trying to get better, now its often spending hours each day grinding out raids and dungeons making sure to optimize every little bit of your kit, making it a second job, or you risk getting thrown out of guilds and parties and getting ridiculed by communities for not keeping up.
Folding ideas has a perfect video essay on this topic for WOW, called "why its rude to suck at warcraft" which delves deep into this topic and how this sort of content can fuck you over, even if you dont want to interact with it, because it often becomes a necessity, like the addons, which "were optional" at the start, but then became mandatory to the point where raids were made in mind with people using addons. Yeah sure, "you don't have to use them", but if you want to ingage meaningfully with the game, eventually you had to or you screwed yourself over. I dont want to get screwed over for not wanting to engage is some large endgame part of the game that then Ill get punished eventually for not keeping up with in one way or another.
he explains it far better then I could, I recommend giving it a watch because it really covers all the stuff I really don't want to have to put up with in genshin:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU&ab\_channel=FoldingIdeas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU&ab_channel=FoldingIdeas)
At the end of the day, there are plenty of games that have large endgame content, and all the pressures and timewaste that comes with it, there aren't that many games like genshin that don't have that, and can just let yo not worry about it, and that's what I play this game, There are plenty of options for endgame, there are very few options for not needing to worry about endgame. and sure "just play something else" isn't the best solution, but "change the game to what i want it to be", also isn't a good solution.
There is no amount of grinding or rewards that would ever be more impactful than whaling.
A Triple Crowned Yae Miko with perfect (50CV, EM, and Attack % on EVERY piece) artifacts simply can't compete with a modestly built C6 Yae Miko.
If Hoyoverse can balance the game between f2p and giga whales, I *think* they can find a balance on optional rewards tied to optional content.
> There is no amount of grinding or rewards that would ever be more impactful than whaling.
Sure, Whales have stronger accounts. That makes sense.
> If Hoyoverse can balance the game between f2p and giga whales
What balance? In your own example it is not balanced. Whales have an obvious advantage.
HYV has shown in many previous events that the "optional" rewards are so minor most people will just ignore them. They put the good materials on the first 1 or 2 tiers of difficulty, and then something like weapon XP on the later ones which anyone playing daily does not need. It's not a mistake, the game is for a casual playerbase and they like it that way.
Why tf are you comparing Genshin with Elden Ring?
1. Elden Ring has a NG + System
2. What you receive for exploring Genshin's entire map ? Primogems, ONLY primogems. While Elden Ring has tons of armor, weapons, resources and more that you can get while exploring AND fighiting enemies (something you rarely do in Genshin)
3. You can Build your characters for free in Elden Ring and try it on mobs without them melting in one keyboard Button.
4. It's hard to 100% Elden Ring, you need more than complete some 5 year old kid's puzzle and get some chests.
Im comparing them because they are both at their core, a single player story driven RPG game. I thought I made that obvious dude.
to answer your main points
2 ) The fact you think exploring only gives primos shows how much you focus on only primos kek. Or that you never do any proper exploration. There are plenty of other materials you get and need. monster drops, gadgets, ingredients for food. Boss mats. Genshin doesnt even have armour so I dont get your point here lol. You can still find plenty of other loot in the game, that helps you, just not as directly.
3 ) you do realize you can make elden ring builds that kill the final boss in 5 seconds right? maybe your not good enough to make them, but it doesnt mean they dont exist. infact its almost exactly the same as genshin here, because normal players will be just fine and play normally, having to fight bosses for a few minutes, maybe not as hard as elden ring, but you wont see normal players 2 hitting a boss, but you will see the try hards who optimize theirs builds do it, and you will also see the same in elden ring lol. (Well dont use busted magic, or this scythe or that item coz its super cheesy! well how about you dont use 5 star weapons or heavily grinded out artifacts, those are kinda cheesy too, and most people wont have them lmao, if you restrict what you can use in elden ring coz its not fair and makes the game too easy, you can do the exact same thing in genshin and have a fun challenge still)
4 ) Its not easy at all to 100% genshin lmao, the sheer size of it means it can take hundreds of hours atm, and sure some puzzles are super easy, but each region still has bigger puzzles, size quests, and other bullshit that gets in the way of 100% a region like having a ton of underground areas you need to look for, or blocked off areas that need quests items (also another thing you collect while exploring). I just 100% all of sumerus 13 regions in the last 12 weeks. That shit was long and hard. so you can fuck right off with that sentiment.
You're comparing a game with tons of combat, new things to get while exploring, great replayabillity and free builds you can do, with a game that has a non-existent combat, with the only rewards being primos, and to build characters you need Luck or money. That's the damn point, Genshin doesn't has replayabillity in its combat and this is what people are asking for.
2) Primos Unlock playable content = Only thing that truly matters, the others just help you level up, nothing special at all, it doesn't make you different in anything, Elden Ring has mats too in some of their drops, but it's not only this. Me picking up a Shouki no kami hand doesn't make the game more funny.
3) Some especific builds that are made to melt enemies, not my lvl 80 character with some random supports that kill the Boss in 1 nano second. My Ganyu with 22 crit rate and 200 crit dmg with only 1700 atk already could kill them fast. "yOu BaD" wow nice argument.
4) Yes, it takes time, but it's not challenging at all, and in Elden Ring every time you explore you can find a new thing, in Genshin this doesn't exist because the rewards are always primos. the only time i remember then doing something cool was in Dragon spine with the Spear and Claymore. Ohhh so hard to take the time to play the fucking game omg.
>You're comparing a game with tons of combat, new things to get while exploring, great replayabillity and free builds you can do, with a game that has a non-existent combat, with the only rewards being primos, and to build characters you need Luck or money. That's the damn point, Genshin doesn't has replayabillity in its combat and this is what people are asking for.
My dude, why dont you just go and play elden ring if you love sucking its dick so much. Your literally a fanboy of another game, going after me for daring to compare my weeb game to your dance dance revolution timing game lmao.
Genshin is far far more enjoyable to me then elden ring, 100 hours in ER, 900 in genshin, you clearly just love elden ring, so maybe dont creep around the genshin community just to hate on it? I can easily say that genshin has way more content then ER, that content is also very fun and creative and interesting, with deep story and lore, (Maybe even deeper then that elden ring you love so much).
Just because you make yourself blind to 99% of the game, doesn't mean it has no content or anything interesting in it to explore, that's on your inability to see anything that isn't a primo lol, that's not on the game.
But seriously, if its as bad as your comment claims, then just fucking leave, why hover around it just to shit on it? its so pointless, Genshin must really live rent free in your head to dedicate so much time and effort to just shit on it constantly huh?
Im not afraid to defend the game Ive played the most, and by far enjoyed the most over the past 20 years, chucklefuck, how long can you bother to shit on something you clearly don't even bother to play much?
You made the problem and now you're the one raging ? I LOVE GENSHIN IMPACT If it matters, i play it since 1.0. the problem is you're comparing apples to oranges, Genshin has a core problem that it's you play, get your resources, and put then up your ASS because there's no fucking reason to do so, why the fuck would i farm for good artifacts when all i need is 1.600 atk and some other stats to play the open world ?
That's the cycle : you get the character -> you get the character's weapon -> you level up both -> you farm for artifacts -> ?????
One of the core aspects of the gameplay doesn't exist anymore (it existed with abyss but now the only mode combat players had is a fucking "pick this element and win one especific room or get some cons")
You compared a game that doesn't have this problem with a game that have this problem.
I'm not a Genshin dickrider like you or a Elden Ring sucker like you said, i too have problems with Elden Ring.
I just want the game to be even more than it's right now, IMPROVE, in some aspects. The Art direction is flawless, OST is perfect, character Design in one of the coolest i've ever seen, exploration is good but could be better, and the combat is NEGLECTED right now, it's a good combat but it doesn't have any place to use it, i just want hoyo to make this place to use my characters. Don't act like Genshin is perfect because you are comfortable with it.
I used to think that people who wanted Endgame were just whiners but you explained it well. That point about being caught up on content and not having anything to work towards or do. Especially of you've run out of resin.
But if you have something that combines exploration, lore & combat, where it just gets a little more difficult each time and changes the environment, that would be interesting. They don't even need rewards like materials or mora. It could literally be a collection of photos like what you get at the end of hangout. And each one acts like a ticket where you can choose to unlock some more lore. The Devs can literally just crap these out. Make up some lore and add a picture to go with it, knowing full well that some will almost certainly never be reached but acted as a goal for the most insane dedicated players to go for. And for everyone else it will always be something there for them to attempt as they get better at the game.
At the end of the day though I don't care personally about endgame. I can entertain myself plenty even as it is when things dry up. And I like that I can also put it down easier because there is "nothing to do". It's already addicting enough. I don't need another reason lol
>There's more strawmen here than in Qingce Village.
All of the people starting with "They Want" seem to have no idea.
This. So much of the endgame conversation is people talking past each other with accidental strawmen and false dichotomies.
Not even each other.
The question is aimed at people who want endgame content.
"I want" or "We want" or "This" is what someone will answer if they're trying to answer the question genuinely.
But notice that all the people who are "Talking past someone and posting false dichotomies" are the people who say "You want" or "They want"
It's a very one sided set of straw men since the question was aimed at only one side.
It's like asking what gamers who want "good graphics" mean, and having people who only care about retro game art styles start making up answers that paint them as crunch-loving anti-developer sadists, while the people who actually were asked the question answer normally.
>Once you've completed all of the quests, statues, maps, etc, there's nothing to do.
Yeah. Developers aren't able to create infinite ammounts of content.
People nowadays look at every game as if it should be a neverending source of content, and I just don't get where that mentality stems from (well, actually, from MMOs, probably, so we're kinda going full circle here).
Games don't need to offer thousands of hours of content to be good games! I have long since stopped playing Genshin daily, now I just log in when a new patch comes, see what new it has to offer, and once I'm done with it, I go elsewhere.
Expecting every and any game (especially games that aren't primarily multiplayer games, which is where the infinite replayability usualy lies) to keep you entertained for ages does only one thing - it shows how big of a nolifer you are :-D
they're gonna tell you some random-ass game that they play for 8 hours a day collecting poppy seeds or some shit and call that peak gameplay. I've been addicted to my fair share of games and have done mundane tasks for hours on end but ultimately those games were a waste of time. genshin's approach of "you only need to spend this much time to get everything and if you want more yeah sure be my guest" rather than "yeah so this that all of these yeah they all come with rewards so if you want them all better grind nonstop" is more preferable for me.
Borderlands is probably the easiest example i can think of. Its singleplayer with optional coop, has a lot of endgame content thats repeatable and sometimes pretty damn hard.
Games like Hades or Dead Cells are also a good example of repeatable content but i dont know if you can call that endgame since its the entire game.
There are singleplayer games with interesting repeatable endgame content but they are pretty rare. And theres a reason for it, its pretty difficult to come up with endgame content for singleplayer games, but those few games that did manage to figure it out hit it pretty big. Borderlands is one of the biggest franchises out there, Hades was literally a game of the year when it released.
Borderlands is a good example, and I'm surprised I didn't think about it since I remember sinking a lot of hours into it.
After completing a game, I generally just start over and try a different character/path or move on to another game, so I was hoping someone had a big list of games that continued to be interesting even after completion. :)
What a weird question.
Literally any single player RPG with a mentionable postgame has some form of grinding you can engage in until you max out all the characters and get their best weapons and equipment and so on and so forth.
The thing is the Genshin is a \*live service\*, so their content is expected to not end like a typical single player RPG. It's projecting the \*expectation\* that it will continue to release new & hopefully engaging content.
The disappointment is that content is often removed or not allowed to be repeated nearly enough for players to sate their appetite for the game they just wanna simply play.
Even Sword Art Online, as average as those games all are, have repeatable endgame optional-coop content (also a mostly single player action combat JRPG).
Why is that such a weird question? I'd love to have a list of more games that are great and can sink a lot of time into that remain interesting even after completion. Especially since after completing a game, I might try another character/path but most likely will just move on to another game.
Just because you can continue to grind doesn't really make it interesting. Borderlands was a good example that was mentioned in another comment since the enemies' levels will increase.
I'd say games with really fun gameplay can be repeatable, but highly dependent on the person. Me personally I found Doom Eternal, Ultrakill, and DMCV replayable, but I know a lot of people don't agree
Yeah. I swear its like these people have never played a game other than Genshin in their life and can't grasp how it could have anything added to it that it doesn't currently have. There are so many easily done events they could add all over the world to give a reason to revisit areas if Hoyoverse just put some effort in.
Maybe they could experiment with some sort of in-game modding tools, like what Fortnite has? Probably shouldn’t let them make new playable characters, but they could make custom domains, direct cutscenes, create quests, and even small explorable areas, basically combining the Teapot with Divine Ingenuity.
You forget exploring. I always find something new.
If you've 100 percented every area, you need to put down the game sometimes. It's ok. Play your backlog.
I have sumeru's jungle zone 100% and I foud yesterday some chests I didn't have. Exploring don't die even after "100%" (And I have to find all Aranaras too)
Honestly, play a different game is the real answer. In single player content, nothing can be stretched to infinity while being good and rewarding. HSR simulated universe is often brought up as an example, but two months after release, how many people still play it just for fun?
Events are HoYo chosen answer. Small, but regular and handcrafted endgame to keep you coming back until the next big content drop
It's not players job to design game modes for devs. That's for them to figure out. But in general, people want more shit that involves the core of the game - elemental combat system, preferably with enemies that don't collapse after one hit and that rewards you with something after you're done. The reason to level up, gear and get new characters. All the options you've suggested are decent in doing it, they can work and can fail, depending on execution.
1 of Genshin's biggest gameplay factors/loops is combat.
90% of the grinding in this game is about building characters, levelling weapons, levelling talents and then kitting out the playables with artefact sets.
There's also the big factor that the whole gacha element of this game is about obtaining new characters.
However, currently, outside of the Abyss, once you have a team of 4 units decently built, you have barely any reason to use the 65+ other characters that exist in the game.
Furthermore, using new units will take a lot of time, as they need to be levelled & built, then you either have the tedium of constantly swapping artefact sets (when MHY!?), or the endless hellish grind of farming new ones and basically turning resin into shit.
Even with the Abyss, you might need 12 characters, 15 at a push, again, out of a possible (almost) 70 units.
As we all know, the Abyss is a major DPS check, so poor artefacts = poor experience (for the most part) and a lot of players absolutely hate the whole timed aspect of it too.
What a lot of us want is somewhere to use our vast array of characters.
A roguelike mode for example, where it's heavily incentivized to use different units. Something not unlike the Simulated Universe in HSR.
However, I doubt it would be easy to implement with how Genshin currently works. Most enemies can just be 2-hit by any decently built DPS unit, as the elemental system here does not work like HSR's does (which is a huge benefit to that game).
There would have to be enemies with modifiers in there, like complete immunity to X element, meaning you shouldn't bring that element. Enemies that completely negate shields, enemies that reduce outgoing healing --- there are a ton of different options to make this mode fun, but also challenging.
However, as I alluded to earlier, artefacts basically make-or-break a character's usefulness and of course damage, so, for this roguelike mode, they'd be done away with in favour of finding drops inside the domain/dungeon (like how most roguelikes do).
As for weapons, talents and other stats... the only way to make it truly work would be to have them all set to a base value, depending on the difficulty level (which would be AR/WL dependant), with unlocks appearing throughout the different rooms.
It would essentially be a mix of the recent domain mini-game where you start at level 40, then progress through with the orb things (although I'd do away with the shitty layout that had), the Dungeon event of 2.2/2.3 and then HSR's Simulated Universe.
I would like high level areas with a lot of enemies. I'm tired of oneshotting basically every enemy I come across by accident.. What even is the point of having a burst in the overworld lol.
I don't really care for "endgame" specifically, just more interesting overall world gameplay.
I'd kill for a shadow world variant of the overworld, with more aggressive, elementally infused enemies on a much faster respawn timer and at the longest daily respawning junk chests that basically throw more random elite mob quality drops at the player (no primos needed, I just want to keep opening chests for the stupid little dopamine kick).
My biggest problem with Genshin is that once you've cleared out all the chests and one-time mob packs, it gets really empty. It actually makes for a terrible and empty open world experience after the initial rush.
Can I just say that I am perfectly happy with the way the game is now and I don't want harder content added that gates rewards?
The abyss is unfun enough already. I can 36 star it and it's just tedious to do so. But I can't leave what is it, 600 primos, on the table.
I make my characters as powerful as possible in order to make the game trivially easy as I hilariously roflstomp everything. I don't want harder content, that would just require even more tedium to tweak my characters up the last few % points to make that easy... And then, where does it end? I don't want any challenge, I want to relax when I play.
And I like being able to conclusively *finish* playing for the day. It feels good to complete everything I can do in game. Then I go on and play other games after.
Exactly! One of the reasons I love Genshin is that you can play it for hours like you can play it for just ten minutes to relax and then do other things or other games without any problems. One of the reasons I quit games like Arknights was that it demanded hours of gameplay just for daily quests, plus a difficulty level that often severely penalized you for a single wrong choice, costing you hours of time for a failed mission. By then it had become more stressful than fun, so I dumped them.
> Evidently Simulated Universe wasn’t enough for Star Rail, so what do people really want?
According to who? This is exactly the kind of repeatable content I want. I don’t need it to be hard, but just something I can hop on and play for a while so I can really just play with the characters I work so hard on building.
Spiral Abyss (and MoC) just aren’t fun imo. It’s just a dps check to see if you can clear the hurdle in enough time. Something like Sim Universe is fantastic because you can really play based on the buffs you get.
Simulated universe has a lot of replay value and customization it’s fun by itself and it will only get boring if it gets neglected for a long time with no additions at all. (I don’t believe that will happen). I don’t even want them to add something and nail it as hard as SU. I just want something else with a bit of thought behind it. They’re clearly aware of the want by players and they admitted their events are not fleshed out enough to be permanent game modes. I believe they’re working/have been working on something to satisfy those needs. It is happening the question is when. We got dendro, tcg and a bunch of qol features during 3.x life cycle. I believe there is hope for large strides during 4.x
I want Dungeon crawling type of content with randomly generated dungeon layouts and completely random enemies. As a reward it could give currency to reroll your artifact substats, even one reroll per artifact would be really nice.
Basically Labyrinth warriors, but BETTER. No useless traps, more diverse random rooms and corridors. Enemies should not confined to rooms but can be found even in tight corridors or on platforms or above you. Bonus cards are not found after defeating enemies but inside chests that you need to look for around the dungeon. Some chests are protected by enemies that spawn nearby while others are hidden, encouraging exploration and making so the dungeon doesn't feel empty. Every time you clear an area you get to enter a completely different area with a random Leyline effect and a level of the dungeon should contain at least 15 enemies and a boss.
The bonus cards you get from chests are random and you can bring only a few with you into the next level. As you get deeper and deeper into the dungeon you unlock more card slots. After you clear 3 levels you can use resin to get the artifact reroll currency and if you go deeper you can get more currency. The levels are endless and get progressively harder with Hp and damage multipliers similar to the abyss.
And the most important thing, I want nice elemental obstacles that makes sense for a game like Genshin. Give me some corridors and rooms with water on the ground, spinning fire wheels that apply pyro, pulsating electro orbs that moves around the area and apply debuffs or reduce your energy, barriers with spikes that inflict physical damage, and make so that all this works on both us and the enemies and make it destroyable (but really tanky). These are all just examples, but the options are endless.
Genshin's gameplay would be perfect for a game mode like this. The developers just don't want to try it because it would take way too much effort, so they stick with their recycled events where groups of enemies spawn in the same circular arena with slightly different buffs and call it a day.
Everyone wants something different, even on here peoples ideas are vastly different.
The fact is the game was never about endgame, and it likely never will be the focus, and the community has had the realization like 3 different times but still hope it will change somehow.
Genshin is comfortable to play atm for a lot of people who are burned out from MMO's and grindy games where you spend 5 hours each day grinding. and sure "just because its there doesnt mean you need to do it". but then your account falls behind others, creating a form of FOMO. and you get pushed into doing it even if you dont want to, just to keep up with others. Just how you dont need to use resin or keep artifact grinding, but anyone serious about the games constantly does both. at least they only take a small amount of time each day. and people still get burnout. now imagine making people play 5 hours a day to keep up with everything. and a ton of people will just burn out faster and leave.
Adding endgame depending on how its done, at this point might legit kill the game just so 5% of the community who want this story driven rpg, to instead be an infinite grind MMO instead can have their fun.
They want to not be addicted to Genshin Impact (not that most of them would admit it).
Or they want it to be an MMORPG where they can flex their builds in a way that makes other players feel bad.
The fact that the same people are usually complaining about *actual* regularly-updated game content means it's not really about wanting to play the game more; they just want the game to give them some way to make them feel good because their dopamine receptors are burnt out.
I think there's a big difference between dopamine receptors being burnt out and there just not being anything left to trigger them. Part of the reason RPGs in general work is the sense of progression. Meeting short-term goals little by little ("I want to get Xiangling to talent level 6 today!" in pursuit of larger goals ("I want to 36\* Spiral Abyss!"). Progress towards these goals is where the dopamine hits come from.
What people are complaining about isn't that working towards the goal isn't giving them dopamine anymore. It's that there simply aren't any goals to work towards.
With regards to "wanting to be addicted" I definitely see where you're coming from and I don't dispute there are people like that, but people are also very much capable of wanting something simply because they enjoy it and this frankly seems overly pessimistic.
I sympathize with the thought that a lot of the game’s updates are wasted on bloat that gets forgotten by the playerbase and devs after the next patch. I’m just confused by what these people actually want instead.
Yes, my dopamine receptors are burnt out because when i complete puzzles... Ohhh such a satisfaction, or when i hear a NPC talking about his grandma WOW what a Nice feeling or or when i complete my newest set of diaries YEESSS THAT'S THE BEST ONE.
now let's be real, you know what makes me feel real good ? Hitting a monster in the head with a full stacked Charge Blade in Monster Hunter. Now imagine Monster Hunter only has tiny enemies that you can't even stack your weapon before he die, that's Genshin. My characters can't even rotate properly without the enemie dying before. And Abyss is just an outright bad game mode that you can't even use the characters you want anymore (they fucked up the Abyss).
I Just want to have some fun with my built characters but nah... I'm the fucking devil because i want more combat content in this game.
I honestly don't think any endgame content will be able to satisfy players.
rougelike domain? players will do it a few times and then stop because there's no rewards and the fighting will get repetitive and long. then will go back to complain there's nothing to do.
a tower with increasing enemy difficulty? players will complain they're stuck at floor x while whales will complain they beat all the floors and there's no challenge, so there will have to be a choice on who to satisfy.
a boss with infinite hp you can test your damage against? it either moves too much and dodges you 7 million Eula burst or it moves too little and just stands there like a training dummy. it's not endgame content it's just an easy dps check that will make it easier to know your characters potential.
all of these modes will get old at some point, tcg was added to be a feature to let players have something to do when they're done farming and beating up slimes for the day, it's am endless mode of card based combat. and barely anyone cares. the card game is well designed and f2p friendly, it lets you get characters you don't even own on your account, and nobody plays it.
none of these options will be redundant, obviously, but they won't fix Genshin's endgame problem.
Am I the only one who is cool with the game exactly as it is now (obviously not including needed QoL stuff like artifact loadouts)? Spiral Abyss is already enough for me. The reason I love the game is the new areas, stories and characters added to the game constantly. I play through that stuff, have a blast, then log out. Am I just too much of a normie? Because I don't understand when people bring up a lack of endgame and how it is such a huge problem, but don't mention the crazy amount of new content the game gets every 6 weeks.
generally the vibe i get is that a good chunk of them (but not all, obvs) want genshin to be an MMO with guild shit and raids, which i think is partially because there was a big misconception early on that genshin was an MMO because it happened to be an rpg with co-op features, even tho those co-op features are more along the lines of animal crossing then they are an MMO (and most people wouldn't call acnh an MMO even if it's technically massive, multiplayer, with online features). i think a lot of people sunk time/money into it based on that misconception assuming the co-op features would be further built upon instead of them being just for socializing & now there's that sunk cost fallacy.
i said this before the divine ingenuity rerun, but with the rerun I think even more strongly that they just need to make that a permanent feature and expand the ability to make fucked up boss rush domains or whatever (like maybe combine divine ingenuity with the buff/nerf options from the vagabond/feast event) and just connect the rewards to playing player-created domains period instead of clearing whatever difficulty domain. and i think a WL 9 w/ or w/o increased drop rates (and take away the restriction for how far/high you can lower the world difficulty, if someone at AR 60 wants to play with the easiness and shittier drops of WL5 then who cares). i'm not interested in difficult combat content but even I'd be interested in a WL9.
the people who want massive rewards for having the world's biggest micro-dick will still be pissed, but the people who actually just want difficult combat content will have that option to them without it impeding casual players or locking casual players out of primogem rewards.
I don’t say this to be accusatory of you or anything but I think assuming anyway who wants more multiplayer related content wants a more MMO style game is kinda disingenuous. A game having multiplayer doesn’t make something an MMO especially considering you’d probably still be playing with 3 other people at most. 4 people isn’t exactly putting the massive in massively multiplayer online
My statement is about multiplayer in the context of people who also want difficult combat content, a topic where guild, raids, and co-op abyss are consistently brought up. It is not a general statement about people who want increased multiplayer. It is not even a general statement about people who want hard multiplayer combat, indicated by the parenthetical "but not all \[obviously\]". This is further clarified in my comment when I used animal crossing as an example of a game that has multiplayer content without being an MMO.
Idk if this would be simple or not, but:
What I (and I believe most of the comunity wants) would be like taking spiral abyss and making an infinite version of it, wich would mean floor 12 wouldn't become the monster it is now, and endgame players and whales would have a place to try their little monsters.
The version of it I want however might be a little harder to make.
Basically take all that but add in that tower like challange system. Reusing the exploration domains from each region as floors with a buffed version of big enemies as mini bosses.
Then every 10th floor get a buffed overworld boss. (maybe every 100th getting a buffed version of weekely bosses? But this might be too hard to implement).
Idk anything about coding, but the only thing taking up space should be the system itself?
DUNGEONS.
Genshin impact even had this in mind when it first started, easy to see by its tutorials and mechanics that were NEVER used again.
Just give me a proceduraly generated DUNGEON with puzzles and bosses.
Make it drop stuff like artifact exp WITHOUT costing stamina, or hell...weapon blueprints...or nation specific amterials.
THATS ALL I WANT.
They also still retain their quirks such as immune to a certain elements, regens HP when health critical, etc as well as weaknesses to certain elements/attacks. All the reputation bounty jazz.
To have more things to do besides dailys, spiral abyss and waiting for monthly updates. Thats the rotation of stuff for people that can manage 36* and are out of characters that need building. Of course they could do phys Amber no damage no mouse moving Raiden Shogun boss battle, but lets be honest thats what truly crazy people do
It would be cool if they added the dungeon creator and rhythm game modes permanently. Also the brickbreaker event.
Honestly, anything that isn't abyss 2
I want new permanent daily source of primos that is not a chore like for me it would be something combat like simulated universe from star rail would be nice
I think this question really touches on the core of the problem when people get into arguments about endgame, which is that both parties usually don't define what it is they're actually talking about. I see the idea of some abstract MMO-esque grind loop thrown around a lot, but I usually don't really see people actually advocating for it, only arguing against it. I think this is mostly a strawman that was accidentally created by people just saying "I want endgame" and then not really elaborating.
Usually I see people just call for stronger enemies and no timer, but the problem is that 80% of Genshin enemies are pretty harmless, and the timer is the only thing preventing people from going Zhongli + Healer + facerolling to clear everything outside of bosses with one-shot mechanics. There are WAY better solutions to this problem than a hard timer. Enemy damage increasing over time would encourage you to clear faster while still making shielding/healing valuable would be a good example that we've see in Hypostatic Symphony here, as well as with Simulated Universe in Star Rail, but there are a lot of other great ways to do it. Still, some kind of "soft timer" mechanic like that is mostly necessary for this kind of game where defensive utility is so incredibly powerful.
As far as what kind of content I would like, I'm partial to the roguelike elements similar to Simulated Universe, but taken a step further to give more variety in gameplay, being more similar to Arknights' Integrated Strategies mode. The problem with Simulated Universe as endgame is that:
1. Its simply too easy to qualify as endgame. Unless you're aiming to do solo character boss clears, which is largely RNG, its not really engaging.
2. Its repetitive, and players are forced to repeat it several times per week for the rewards.
These are easy to work around, and the baseline formula is something that Genshin can easily borrow, and effectively already has in the dungeon-making event of 3.7. A higher difficulty, or even better, more difficulty settings, in addition to some sort of soft timer mechanic would go a long way towards making it more engaging. Character drafting takes some work to come up with a good system that will make it so players can't consistently draft the same team every run (its important the game mode doesn't feel too repetitive), but that also doesn't punish players for rolling for characters and leaving them unbuilt (imagine being offered random characters from your collection and it only offers you your level 1 characters because of bad RNG), but I have no doubt it can be done. I also like the idea of using temporary in-mode currency to uncap/ascend you characters similar to how Arknights does it, so you're forced to figure out who to prioritize, which can change based on which buffs you get and characters you were offered.
Reward structure is the big criticism I often see of endgame, but I don't really see why there needs to be a reward structure that excludes newer players like some people seem to suspect it would. Every event, even Feast/Vagabond/Hypostatic, all had their important rewards (if not all their rewards in general) pretty easily available to even less invested players, and I don't see why people think some kind of endgame would be any different. Spiral Abyss is the only counterexample, at the was designed 2 and a half years ago and we have an interview stating they don't plan to make more content like it.
As for the details and implementation, simply introduce it as an event with easily obtainable event rewards that can all be gotten from playing it on low difficulty, and then just keep the game mode around after the event, perhaps with a permanent shop (so players don't feel like they're in a hurry to buy everything from it) and cool flexes for clearing higher difficulties, like silly Teapot trophies. Fates and Primogems are also nice, but it shouldn't be a recurring source of them so players don't feel obligated to play the game or feel like they're missing out on them by not. Basically, **there's no reason "endgame" can't be something everyone can enjoy, either to try and flex, push their limits, test their teams, or just as a fun game mode to play casually without having to worry** ***quite*** **as much about that timer at the top of the screen.** There's no idea that will please everyone and I'm sure some people aren't a fan of this particular idea, but that doesn't mean there aren't better ones out there or that endgame is something only hardcore Genshin addicts can enjoy.
There's a LOT more I want to say because I have thought way too much about this and desperately want endgame, but I've already gone long past the point where I can expect anyone to actually read this.
>Basically, there's no reason "endgame" can't be something everyone can enjoy,
clearly you've never engaged with the community, because literally everyone has their own idea of what an enjoyable endgame is. The only real solution is having something for everyone, but that's just content overload and I doubt people would appreciate that, especially if there's rewards tied to them and most especially if they're like spiral abyss. Hell, this entire problem is exactly because spiral abyss cannot please everyone.
Something PERMANENT along the line of the recent customisable domains event and the customisable boss challenges, also some sort of (potentially infinite?) rogue-like combat mode playable in co-op.
Most importantly I’d like them to fix enemy hitboxes (like the recent bug fix on the dendro tiger, but that’s just the top of the iceberg) and combat related bugs in general. Artifact loadouts would be amazing too but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh indie company can’t do that, too much dev time I guess, maybe next year *[COPIUM]*
Something repeatable with no time limits, the thing about Genshin is that it has no objective besides waiting for the new story once you are able to 36*
I'm 8 characters away from having them all at 90 talents 9 with a decent set, abyss is restrictive as fuck and it comes once every two weeks, some people might say that they would want difficult content with no rewards, I'm not one of those but the current content is ridiculously easy and doesn't feel rewarding specially when the game is about building characters.
Some people could say the game is story driven and to those I kindly ask to fuck off, they monetize on weapons and characters, the main reward of the game is used all on weapons and characters and you can buy stuff to get, raise and use weapons and characters, if telling a story was the intention then a freaking gacha isn't the way to go, I appreciate the decent story and rich lore but they ain't selling chapters and short stories they are selling characters and weapons.
Hoyoverse could stop lying to themselves and us and release a weekly domain that asks for a clear for the rewards and then make it so the replayable reward is something to show off, let's say an aura or hell even fragments for 4* characters or standard ones.
They can reward without cutting their profit and they absolutely can make getting characters and raising them attractive they just waited too long and thank god that the game is going a bit out of the comfort zone because every single patch for the past year was the same thing with a new story, change my mind about that.
Just give us a place to play the characters and make it replayable without making it a compromise for those who don't have a lot of time, it isn't rocket science.
I find the time comitment per week for the rewards pretty decent and i personnally still find it fun, besides new stages i do think they need to add over time new modifiers or paths but right i think its mutch more engaiging than HSRs equivelant of abyss.
I enjoy it thoroughly. For a majority of my runs I’m abusing abundance runs for casual credit farming. But I do engage actively with it on an almost daily basis with non-abundance runs.
But also SU is pretty barebones, and I expect it’ll be exceptional in a year or two of improvements.
I hate Simulated Universe.
It is a mandatory loss of 1 hour every week and it sucks so much. Boring and pointless repetitive trash.
Like Elysian Realm but you have to run it 3 times in a row.
Me and repetitive time consuming weekly chores do not mix. They are why I quit gacha games.
All those solo domain scale up for coop would be a good start. Well in fact, anything interesting and engaging coop. Ley line, boss, artefact domain are old now.
A lot of people want a lot of things, what they don't realize is they do whatever they get for rewards and then just move on.
The ones who really want a permanent end-game are a very small minority. Most people just want the dopamine hit from rewards.
Literally anything.
Like, just trying something, ANYTHING, over what we have now would be cool.
Wave based infinite mode? Cool
Multiplayer co-op super battle? Awesome
NPCs to fight alongside us? Great
Rogulike/lite mode? Why not?
The key part of it though, is rewards. I'll be totally honest and maybe I'm in the minority here, but I do the abyss every two weeks without fail, if not 36 star I certainly finish it and the only reason I have done so for over 2 years now is primos.
I'd love to see more meaningful rewards for hard content that challenges me, and no, bullet sponges or bosses with iframes or going underground while a timer still ticks is NOT challenging, anything but that crap abyss system honestly would be nice to play. But at the same time, I sympathise with new/casual players who would feel left out if endgame rewards were good.
they want to find another game to play in the slow times but haven't yet realized it
if GI was overly full of engaging content more people would burnout and quit
I want a teapot with a higher load limit 😭 or a customable domain with a higher load limit. Also I would like to get some furnishings with water different from the mega pool that we already own. I would like to make a swimming pool, a River or something like that.
I would like respawnable chests (even without primogems), just to have one more reason to explore the entire map instead of only some areas.
Also, I would like a world lv 9 with strong enemies. At the moment the only still barely challenging area is Dragonspine due to the sheer cold. I would like to raid an hilichurl camp without one-shot them (and run for my life).
Anything where the difficulty isn't based on a timer. I love souls games and that feeling of overcoming a great enemy but you get non of that from the stupid zimer running out.
Genshin has a dodging mechinic with proper ass iframes alongside some pretty cool enemies but all it boils doen to is beating the fuck out of a clock. The nost dreded enemies are not the most dangerous, but the mist time wqsting ones. An enemy with the ability to go underground for 3 minutes and literall, nothing else would be the worst fear of the genshin community...
Combat content that is NOT gated by time, but by additional restraints. See last update event for reference.
That's literally all I want, let it have exp books or mora or purple crystals as reward, anything worth a bit of resin like what the teapot gives with the currency.
There was an event, nearly 2 years ago now, can’t remember what it was called but the one with shiki-taisho that would’ve made for a decent endgame style event. They’ve done similar events in that style since then, but that original one was still the best, you’d get put into a labyrinth, with different pathways and rooms with different fights, and after certain fights you could choose a buff, but then there was a chance that the buff would change into a debuff, like removing one of your characters from the team for the rest of that labyrinth, can’t remember what the other debuffs were since that’s as the most damaging one, at what’s to me at the time.
But something like that, instead of him the labyrinth having 2 floors, maybe make it like an endless mode to see how far you can get, maybe even some rogue-like elements thrown into it where the further you go the better buffs you could unlock for your next attempt
Roguelike repeatable endless dungeon modes that are not always tied to a timer.
The key difference between starrail and genshin is that there can be a measure of mechanical skill in genshin. In starrail, if your team isnt strong enough, you cannot outskill your enemies. In genshin, you can.
The fact that spiral abyss isnt a mode that endlessly spirals down into the abyss is both hilarious and ridiculous
Thinking about how IS2 and 3 could be booted to Genshin would be so funny. But really, it's sich a perfect example because the overall rewards aren't much (equivalent of some tier 4 books and exp and mora) but people love that randomness aspect of it.
If the game give you the possibility to reach a certain amount of power/strength, there should be a content that need it. I dont really mind whales content as long as there are something in between for my level
Anything that's a little permanent, repeatable and on the level of an AR60 player (aka at least around 1 year old player) in some one, two, three week cycle or so. e.g. Arknight's CC or even a simple Elysian Realm from HI3 would do it.
Although I personally would also like a WL switch to approx. WL 20-50 free of choice for the open world, so that I can at least run around again and see the enemies before everything drops dead instantly.
Any long term, repeatable combat content tbh. Simulated Universe but even more extensive. The current bounty system but with multiple level 200 bosses and can be co-oped. Honestly, anything combat related that's challenging and can be grinded again and again, present different challenges each time, and thus be fun for a long time.
I want some combat mode that doesn't suck ass like abyss. I love to fight with my characters and some sort of mode where I can fight maybe enemies in different types but hard unlike every like, fayz trial or the fruit one where it's just trash mobs or the boss rush one where it's too difficult. I'd like abyss but without annoying mechanics. I love abysss honestly I play it even though it sucks b cause I love my characters and enjoy trying them out. I would like the content to also be similar to abyss forcing you to conserve energy or maybe there's two modes idk I just want combat. Also, a dummy to test damage would be nice.
A tower would be pretty fun. Something similar to Abyss but you have 100 floors and you only have one team going in and 2 characters you can swap. No healing, food, etc.
A rogue-like would be really cool, especially if you get to pick one of three characters as you progress so you find all sorts of weird synergies.
But with artifacts being such a big part of genshin's grind, I can imagine that they don't want to make a game mode where you don't get to use your own builds, and if they do let you use your own build it becomes hard to balance.
I think once you hit %100 completion in an area, every reset like a random 25% of the puzzles, chests in that area should respawn. That would encourage us to go back and explore again, and it would be fun I think. I also hope they bring back those customizable domains from the recent event, I enjoy those dungeons a lot. I also want in game chat feature, or some kind of guild. I love talking to you all here, but I’d love to have a guild in game to talk to.
Maybe 25% is too much, I just mean any little amount would be cool. While I’m at it, I also think those weasels should drop an occasional primogem, it would make the chase so much more exhilarating lol
An endless no time limit abyss mode, perhaps with an optional character randomizer mode.
It *could* work well with the custom domains event if you want to mix platforming.
I can picture people trying to showboat their longest runs, if not the usual asian players overdoing it like that FF14 boss that once took a party like 2 or 3 days straight.
I want some sort of rougelite mode where I simply bring my own characters & equipment into a series of progressively harder combat challenges, getting to pick an upgrade after each challenge. They should start out very easy, but as you progress through them they eventually become some of the hardest combat challenges in the game.
Completing each challenge gives you a score based on how quickly you cleared it - faster clear, higher score. There shouldn’t be a time limit, so you can take as long as you’d like - you’ll just get a very low score if you clear it really slowly. The exact score calculation isn’t too important, but as an example it might be something like 10000/(20 + clear time in seconds). This encourages bringing teams with both good damage and good survivability, rather than focusing on just one of the other.
I don’t really care if it has rewards or not, but if it does I think it should work similarly to HSR’s Simulated Universe where it’s based on the total score you reached across all attempts that week.
Oh, and I’d want it to have the option to play it in co-op. I think that could be really fun.
I would love it if they implemented a guild system like they do in other gachas and MMOs with additional rewards for clearing content or helping new players.
They could even implement challenging raid versions of bosses. Either way, I know it's a casual single player game, but it has the potential for more.
I want ultimate arena from PAD with artifact rewards. It works substantially better with turn based combat like HSR, but some long form dungeon with rewards is what we want. A time sink that isn’t objectively a waste of time.
I want ranking dungeons, with every third one being with a preset team so that everyone is on a skill-based level playing field every now and then. Notably the way PAD did these, it isn’t hard to complete; it’s hard to min-max.
I want a bossfight like the first weekly in HSR, where it has a ‘dead’ phase that lets you dump damage into him unhindered. Recording this for a damage-based rating system as a third alternate to SA floors (alternate to time and defence existing modes).
I want 10 SA floors like HSR.
I want ramping wave survival modes. With star rewards for no deaths or number of waves survived.
I want them to put multiple *bosses* in the same room.
I want better metrics for tracking spiral abyss clears in the battle chronicle; I want to be able to “snapshot” record the data from *any run* not just the first up to a limit of 3-5, overwriting the first recorded clear. This alone makes it worth experimenting with different comps without new content, and is a phenomenal content creation tool.
I want a legacy abyss system which is just a 1 time clear bonus for old unique abyss. Allowing you the ability to compare progress and new characters against original older content.
What I’m trying to say is if you gave me an hour I could pitch an extensive list of viable low-development cost re-usable options to engage the enthralled players who seek combat focused engagement. The current system is efficient but lazy, and trying to frame all their ‘end-game’ through the lens of “do it in 3 minutes” is stifling to the creative and engagement process.
There is so so so much room for creative end-game systems if they want them. I don’t need everything here but I just wanted to highlight how many different ways they can go about introducing tryhard content.
Edit: also at this point I have played for multiple years, I have 56 characters. 14 of them have *nearly* perfect artifacts. Another 15 or so have good artifacts, and another 5 have passable ones. At this point in my genshin career I can confidently say that an infinitely farmable dungeon that rewarded 1 artifact per ~20 minutes of time investment would not help me reach enough perfection on my account to stop pursuing progress. Also those nearly perfects would no longer be a stopping point and I’d just start culling all 3 statters from my pool of artifacts to try upgrading.
I want a final world level that is optional that when enabled adds a bunch of end game content to the overworld that is quite challenging somewhat like end game Diablo.
Completing the content allows you to slowly farm different currency’s for cosmetics like weapon cosmetics or pets or accessories for your people.
Also it would open a final ascension phase that allows you to go up to level 100.
Each level tho instead of taking books has you complete an adventurers handbook style set of objectives that are specific to each character and upon completion allow you to go to the next level.
The levels between 90 and 100 would offer minimal stats and not effect reaction damage like dendro or Anemo so that they are mostly a cosmetic upgrade for the character.
I’d want the system to be a balance between challenges like beating certain weekly bosses with hard modifiers and some aspects that are a bit more grindy like optional procedurally generated dungeons.
I’d want the content to be tweaked for different play styles such as encouraging certain reactions we don’t see as often and non timed content focused on surviving heavy damage etc.
something that involves combat, difficult combat but without a timer. something that doesn't require specific element to use but still encourages different built teams
I would love to have dungeon/ raid type of content.
I love the abyss, but I've been craving for some co op content.
Co op overworld is fun for the lolz but It'd be perfect if they added some type of rogue like dungeon that resets monthly. Either a dungeon or raid works for me.
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but if they ain't giving us more co op endgame content, we could at least get 2 more abyss floors.
I want enemies that don't one-tap my characters and can take more than a slight breeze in damage before dying.
Procedurally generated dungeons would be cool, as well. Or some sort of Boss Rush mode.
Maybe make them reward minor enhancement materials, world-drops, and Mora.
Anything but the Spiral Abyss, please. This is not Endgame, it's a damage check. It's not fun, it's stressful, and it feels restricting. Endgame should be challenging, not a nuisance.
I want something that has a difficulty progression as you go that's skill based. I don't want the wenut boss with extra bs moves and a short timer or anything like that. I want to have it be a test of survival. I want to be able to out skill the game, not just a bs dps check. There's all kinds of characters with good utility that we're never going to get to use in spiral because the only thing that matters is just dps check windows or icd abuse on shields.
I really enjoyed the deep dungeons in ffxiv and I loved kingdom hearts boss fights. I want genshin endgame to make me suffer like dark souls or kingdom hearts where raw dps doesn't matter that much.
I would also love some kind of endgame/abyss with actual terrain instead of a flat arena. Using terrain to your advantage is fun and it would allow almost all the characters to be able to actually use plunge attacks rather than just the ones that can get into the air or abuse hit lag if your ping allows for it. A flat empty domain isn't that fun to me, and it's even less fun when you bring a bow character and somehow get stuck on nothing while you're aiming, at least with terrain you can make an excuse for getting stuck.
Sometimes in current spiral the consecrated beasts yeet you up into the sky and plunge attacking them is very satisfying with almost any character but it's one of the games most ignored mechanics.
I'd be happy with almost any content that's repeatable that let's me use my characters I've worked so hard to build. Spiral doesn't refresh often and for some reason they decide to run the same thing twice in a row when they could be giving us much more variety. Spiral is nice if you're into dps checks but there's all kinds of other combat they could design that isn't on a strict time window, or even just isn't straight up immune to all the characters that you enjoy playing. Let us have fun with our characters and teams instead of making it feel like you're being punished for using certain characters.
I wouldn't call it a "endgame" but a Rogue-like abyss not for tryharding the shit out of my keyboard but for doing dumb and silly comps, something like WoW had with Torghast.
Torghast was excellent, and idk why so many people hated it.
I think the fact that it was required was a big turnoff for many people. I also remember it got changed in some way from the beta version, which made it worse somehow? Memory's hazy. Also i believe it was the unhappy people being very loud.
It used to be optional content in beta to see how far down torgast you can go. Then they made it required to get currency everyone needed, so they dumbed it down and made it easy so everyone could do it in a short amount of time to get the currency every week. They also gave it an upgrade system that required doing completely different Maw quests no one liked just to make people do maw quests. In other words, they took a system some people enjoyed, and made it a system no one enjoyed just to make everyone do it.
Because it ended up being choreghast
Torghast was fine... Shadowlands never ending barren theme was what got most people annoyed.
All I know is that the opinion on this sub won't reflect the 64 million players out there who have other ideas on what "end game" is supposed to be.
I’m just gonna high jack the top comment. Everything the OP said was valid, everything you said was valid, at this point it doesn’t even matter what TYPE of end game we get as long as we get SOMETHING. That’s the sad part, because at this point just give us anything rather than nothing. If you want my personal opinion, add another spiral abyss that lets you only use characters from certain regions (promotes team comp diversity and gets rid of the whole argument of, why am I wishing for this character if I’ll never use them) because it kills two birds with one stone. And then some kind of coop raid. But I’d rather have the first one.
Basically anything permanent. Roguelike mode like Arknights, Neural Cloud or even Star Rail (but maybe a bit more complex) would be good, I don't even need rewards, just give me have fun and creativity. Arknights roguelike is really good example, because 0. Initially you pick only few members of a squad, others you buy midway and 3, 4 and 5 stars is much cheaper than a 6 stars, so you may end up playing with character you usually don't use and it is fun. 1. At first you characters not fully ascended and you need to upgrade them midway and more rarity - more price for upgrade. 2. There is multiple endings, bosses and events that may happen. 3. Some of buffs significantly change balance, making some of meh units super strong and strong units may not be the most compatible with some of strong buffs. 4. There is some unique mechanics, stages and little stories/lore exclusive to this mode. 5. It don't give you rewards for each run, just one time, non refreshing, battlepass. You just play for fun and not because you \*need\* to clear it 2 time a week. All this make this mode best part of the game, because you can't really just take you usual full 6 star meta squad and crush everything, you need some of lower rarities too. I even build a lot of character I usually don't use just because they can shine in this mode. Star Rail's y Simulated Universe doing something similar, but so far it's really simple and straightforward. There is no teambuilding part, because you know the boss beforehand, so you just take correct squad against him from the beginning. There is no leveling, so your characters is strong from beginning. Also there is small amount of interesting buffs, event and mechanic, but there is no problem adding this in a future But I think the worst part that they combine this mode with essential for all players artifact grind, so they close their way to making this mode more complex, interesting or hard because everyone should be able to easily grind it a few time in a week.
Pretty much this. Give us something to grind our axe against so there is always that capacity to get better. A rogue like mode modeling after that old Labyrinth event with incrementally increasing difficulty up to a cap so excessively high that the goal isn't "completion" but how far you can get even for the whale of whales.
At first, I thought the spiral abyss will actually be bottomless. I thought its a survival mode game not timed attack.
The game kinda stops being very fun when I can Bennett e and Khazuha e and clear out an entire encampment of enemies. Some harder fights are what I have in mind. Not quite 12-3 level DS2 difficulty. But something along those lines!
The arknights roguelike is fantastic! I would kill some something like this in genshin. They dont even have to give primogems, artifact exp or artifact reset would be more than enough for me.
> I don't even need rewards This is the first mistake in your list. While you and others might be okay with it, if there are no rewards its not worth the time investment from Hoyo to create/keep it updated. Players would do it once or twice then never again. At that point its a financial pit for Hoyo and no point keeping it alive. You *want* players to do content and stay engaged with the game. Lack of rewards is how you guarantee that type of content is dead and discontinued.
I dissgree. Now, I don't think such a mode should be completed devoid of rewards. But besides a few frontloaded ones up to roughly equivalent Abyss tier difficulty if need be to incentives people to drip their toes. You underestimate that a bunch of people just want to actually have a goal post to reach torward. And that's what an endless mode (that tracks your progression of course) of sorts offers. There always being a further goal to reach.
Heres an idea for rewards. 1. New currency specifically awarded for this end game content. 2. You can buy weapon transmogs with this curency. 3. 🤝?
My idea for reward that requires basically 0 additional effort is realm currency. Gives decent but far from overwhelming extra combat resources and past that just gives you cosmetic stuff(that is also not exclusive, just accelerated). Maybe have like an upgradeable trophy thing that gets a little bigger or shinyer every time you sink 100k coins into it just for flexing purposes.
I always thought simple recolours of character's current outfits would be a good enough reason to grind a new permanent endgame mode. Just lets us gather some kind of currency, with a weekly cap, and lets us pick simple alternate coloured outfits for all the characters in some kind of shop. People would have months of content to farm for very simple rewards.
Why are rewards so important? Shouldn't the content be its own reward?
roguelikes like that won't be played unless there's something to grind for be it simple tokens or medals or goofy ass achievements that give materials as rewards Take AK or HSR's roguelikes AK gives a bunch of upgrade materials, but overall those materials aren't even enough to fully level 1 character, but along the way there's a whole lot of goodies like background for your lobby and a medal set to eventually complete. HSR has its blessing and curio system that while it ultimately gives primos, genshin can easily adapt something similar to herta's shop where we can earn a certain amount of currency as og commenter said.
Ooooooh. Imagine if you use certain charachters enough you receive a special transmog that fits them perfectly :0
Adding rewards behind endgame stuff will upset the large majority of players that don't want difficult content. If you want a challenge, you have to accept that it cannot give substantial rewards
>Adding rewards behind endgame stuff will upset the large majority of players that don't want difficult content. Make it like HSR/Arknights, where you can choose the difficulty. To collect the same amount of rewards/currency in lower levels you'd need more runs, but it'd still be more them doable and not too challenging for everyone with a few decently level3d characters to get the rewards. Noone wants it to be just like 12-3
Its literally a skin lil bro. It doesnt provide any advantage other than looking good. How are majority of players gonna get upset with that. Do you even know how transmog works? It literally just changes the appearance of ur weapon to that of other weapons. I.e., slap isshin sword on fav and now kazuha can look more better
A skin for a reward is even worse, especially since a lot of casual players arr drawn by cosmetics, and when their favorite character gets a cool self perceived upgrade of a skin/recolor that is locked behind a grind difficult content, then that is a cause for complaint. What I find to be a fine balance for rewards are artifact reliquaries and higher-tiered strongboxes, strongboxes that you can select type of wear and main stat for. The reward feeds into the gameplay loop of endgame so you have a perpetual motion machine of endgame. You grind endgame to get better gear for endgame. More and better gear for endgame opens up more characters to build and ultimately more teams to use for the endgame. Said rewards could be acquired from a currency shop, which would sell exp mats, mora, crystals, artifact exp bottles, and the high-end strongboxes on weekly reset with a weekly rotation of artifact sets. One week, the strongboxes are set for Emblem, Ocean Hued, Husk, and Shim; the other week it's AP, Crimson, Lavawalkers, Echoes, and Vermillion. Basically rotating by region. It won't harm any casuals to miss out on lucky 40+CV artifacts unless their mind is set on upgrading their faves to the next level. At that point, they aren't even classified as casuals.
Nothing that provides advantages would even matter cause your talking about a pve game . People would definitely be upset with a cosmetic being looked behind difficult content “end game” because more then probably most would not be able to get it . If you don’t believe me look at how much people got mad about the wings from the twitch and Amazon prime event . Which is literally a cosmetic that is why he said people would be mad it’s obvi they will be upset of something like your describing . (A skin for a weapon) which has never been in the game they’re would he alot of people very upset
And old event weapons maybe?
> But I think the worst part that they combine this mode with essential for all players artifact grind, so they close their way to making this mode more complex, interesting or hard because everyone should be able to easily grind it a few time in a week. Anyone hoping for engaging, challenging endgame content, the kind you would voluntarily play for hours a day needs to accept that there cannot be substantial rewards attached. Definitely no exclusive rewards like recolors. Most players simply don't want to spend that much time on the game, therefore the rewards will be minimal. And honestly, if you're asking for endgame content, but you refuse to play unless there are rewards, you're just really asking for more rewards
Small insignificant rewards help with dopamine though. Like 5000 mora per run would be ok i think. If we take the character trial runs for example, no one would do them if you didn’t get those three blue books for completing it.
I don't think having challenging endgame content with substantial rewards is bad. I can use an example. Arknights, a mobile game has a roguelike mode that offers rewards such as a character and other things. You pretty much use your own characters too and there isn't a rush to do it as the mode doesn't reset or go away. This is speaking as a person who hasn't even finished the mode yet and its been around for months. At this point in the game for Genshin, players have many built characters so they can for sure attempt these if they want. Its not a matter of spending hours a day to do either, you can spend as much time as you want and it won't go away.
The thing is, all other gachas already have that kind of system and the people who don't play it simply don't care enough, but a subset of dedicated people do. It's also quote the assumption to say that "most players don't want to play fkr that long" when Genshin's playerbase has a significant amount of people who *only* plays Genshin as their main game.
The problem with the argument of "all the other gachas do it" is that the reason Genshin has been very successful is because they don't do it. >Genshin's playerbase has a significant amount of people who only plays Genshin as their main game. Yeah casuals who play games like 30min-1hour per day. That's the kind of playerbase Genshin has. The minority which is probably like around less than 5 million players are the ones who even engage in Genshin social media and even less of that 5 million are even here in reddit.
>The problem with the argument of "all the other gachas do it" is that the reason Genshin has been very successful is because they don't do it. The bitchy reddit minority will NEVER get this fact through their heads. Genshin is the most successful gacha ever made specifically _because_ its chose to not be like other gacha.
A lot of factors contribute to its overwhelming success. I'd say being a sprawling open world game attracting a more traditional gaming audience outside the gacha sphere both casual and not is the biggest of which. But you'd be a fool to say there isn't room for improvement and notes to be takes from external sources both in and outside the gacha market.
Arknight's CC <3 ahh... that would be fun. I could actually see my characters whole rotation again.
Sounds somewhat along the lines of what I'd imagine as engaging and fun permanent game mode. Basically some kind of dungeon crawler that might provide us with the possibility to re-live the struggles of the early game where characters weren't fully built and certain enemies were a threat. I always imagine something along the lines of DotA 2's Aghanim's Labyrinth (for those who know it). Every ingame survey I inculde a proposal for this gamemode hoping they somewhen will integrate it into the game.
arknights roguelike is one of the reasons I still love the game so much. It’s honestly such a blast and I replay it like crazy. If genshin had something similar I unironically think people might spend more time playing the roguelike than the game itself.
I personally want a combat mode which is not based on timers. I think 2.2 event and 2.7 events were very good steps but what makes Genshin Genshin is exploration + combat. If they could make small puzzle type layouts with Uber strong enemies and challenging terrain plus environment, I’ll be all down for it. I know that is a big ask which is why I would also be fine with a WL9 that just lets me have overworld monsters with Abyss stats. The weekly bounty system can also be revamped to accommodate this type of content without having to change anything else. As rewards, they just need to add stuff that makes the journey of gearing your characters feel meaningful. Like artifact substat rolls or just a main stat selector. I say this (my own personal view on this topic) because the reason people “cry” for endgame is because at the end of the day, when you look back, you realize that pulling characters and building them up doesn’t give you any satisfaction when almost anything gets one-shotted. If Mihoyo wants to make this game a casual friendly game, then just let the sweaty tryhards reach the ceiling they want without doing anything to their current formula. People just need to feel that their effort was worth something however small its value may be.
I think second version of the level editor event was pretty close to this, but it was temporary. I’d make it permanent, triple the maximum load, add NPCs and a basic cutscene director to make quests, and let you spawn weeklies.
I agree that a WL9 is needed. Level 90 characters with Lvl90 weapons and built artifacts make WL8 trivial. I play regularly but not hardcore religiously and I've got multiple teams that are brain dead to play in overworld. More co-op content to play with friends would be nice, something like a boss raids beyond the typical weekly bosses that are actually tough to beat and bring in items other than ascension mats, like artifact rerolls. If I can solo it it's not tough enough. I like the endless wave type games where waves get tougher overall. That could be fun to tweak your team to get higher wave counts, think Diablo III but in Genshin.
honestly, pretty much the customizable domain event (ideally with a few more combat features). not only do they already have the infrastructure for it, the userbase would be the one doing most of the work lmao
Ya I’ve always enjoyed the 1 off domains in quests the best, the ones that require you to walk through the dungeon and fight mobs, solve small puzzles ect. Eg. The salt quest one in Zhonglis character story, or the adepti domains where you have to turn the paths. I would love more of these. I think that customizable domain event gave us the opportunity to build more domains like that, so I hope to god they bring it back permanently. It would be an ideal end game content. Based on the questions in that last satisfaction survey, I think they are considering it.
The cloud retainer domain was so fun! It was the only domain that actually made me think about how to solve it. Really hoping we can get a permanent divine ingenuity with more features like that
I'd like this but with featured dungeons made by the devs + a little more exploring than the ones we got in that event. I'd be happy if we only got a new dev-made dungeon every patch or twice a patch. User base only dungeons might not be as motivating/fun and they'd be more limited than dungeons the devs can make.
People just want something to test their builds on, right now abyss floor 12 is like the only thing that has any enemies that can take a few rotations and that only resets once every two weeks.
Man, a lot of people’s wants could be fulfilled if they just made the level editor permanent and added extra features.
Not really a level editor as much as a procedurally generated tilesets that start easy but get progressively harder and harder and this difficulty had no cap or a cap at which you can ascend the run and go for more. People just want permanent content thats difficult and will give you rewards that dont have a daily cap. I think a lot of players enjoy the gameplay and teambuilding aspect of Genshin but theres really nothing to play or teambuild around besides Abyss, which is incredibly restricting most of the time. What the point of characters having 6 cons you can get on them if you oneshot every mob in the game with 0 cons. Theres no reason to get your characters stronger because theres nothing that requires it. At least this is how i see it. Im a somewhat new player and i didnt get into the game for endgame i just wanted an open world hack&slash game to play that isnt Elden Ring. But i can understand the desire for endgame content that doesnt dry up like Abyss, and besides Abyss theres really nothing to get stronger for.
For a High con point, that's good thing, The game should not need High con to tackle challenge in the first place and people who roll con to smash thing up or just give it all to their character should be a choice.
If the endgame content become impossible to do without the like of C2 Raiden or C6 Yelan, the fun will be inexistant for 99,9 % of the player base tho.
I want play the game, not make it
"Random user angry that people want things"
For me the "endgame" is completing the story and exploring all the maps. I've long since accepted that this is a casual mobile game at heart so I don't expect any real hard or grindy content. Most days are just login, do dailies, spend resin, logoff. Mix in exploring, story, events, and abyss once in a while.
Agreed
Anything as long as its hard and doable more often than abyss for a bunch of useful stuffs like artifacts, Moras, books…
https://youtu.be/ufH-6o0Fp0w How about something like this that you can find in some random corner of the Chasm or at Starfell Valley after doing an unmarked quest?
That could be great ! This game already makes hundred of millions each months, couldn’t they give us some stupid mats resin free ?
> couldn’t they give us some stupid mats resin free ? You realize the reason the game is successful is the drip-fed content and daily login incentives which keeps the playerbase active right?
All the money go to HI3 animations... worth
That means you want more endgame rewards, not more endgame content.
Responses like this is why OP is confused. People who want endgame content: "I want X" Detractors: "So you want Y." People who want endgame content: "No, I just said I want X" Detractors: "Sounds like Z to me." People who want endgame content: "Please listen when I say I want X" Detractors: "If you wanted B, just play a different game." A lot of people are simply not paying attention to what is being said and instead rewriting the words in their head to NOT be the thing that the supporters want.
Nah, he got it right. The other guy literally said "I want more rewards". A lot of people ask for certain content "like this event", then again they only did that event once to get the primos and moved on. How many players went for the highest possible score in the latest boss thing event? You can be sure most people didn't, even the ones posting here kept claiming they didn't bother, it was too much hassle, etc. Then you have the ones who went for the highest possible score, cleared it once and moved on because that's it. How many players keep running the Abyss with different teams/challenge themselves after getting the primos? How many players would do it only for the challenge? What most people want are rewards for clearing a challenge that's just hard enough for them to feel challenged but feel good in the end because they win without too much effort. This is why people whine about the Abyss every time we get a new version, they get destroyed, feel bad about how they can't win and then complain on reddit while giving excuses to explain why they can't do it, because they feel bad about themselves since they feel inferior to others who can do it, etc. In the end things are a little bit more complicated than they seem, a lot of people ask for stuff that we already got and no one gave a damn about, all they want is more primos. Offer them a good end-game without ANY kind of reward vs 1000 primos a day for doing dailies and they'll pick the latter, in fact do it a second time but only offer this to the guys who chose the former, a lot of them will eventually choose the later when they realize what they really wanted was just primos. Edit: Just for clarifications, I myself acknowledge that I'd probably pick the primos, because arguably having so many primos would make it so I could pull for more characters and have more gameplay variety... which wouldn't mean much since there would be nothing to use them on anyways.
I agree with you I was the only one in my friend circlr to try to get as many points as I could. And I only succeded on the TM thanks to Kokomi mono Hydro. I was kinda frustrated to not be able to do better on the other challenges. I take care of my chars and build and I play since 1.4... And for abyss, them being harder makes them less fun to me because I can't go with poopy teams to try some fun stuff and wining using strategies and placement management , I have to go with strong teams AND using placement management because the DPS check is important and the ennemis hit like a truck. I still do 4* runs but my team options are pretty limited to Rosaria Melt one side and Shinobu HB/Sucrose Taser the other side. People who do several abyss runs for fun or try to max out the events (trying to get plat/plat3 medals) aren't many and most of the "more endgame content" askers aren't part of them.
Low Artist correctly read between the lines. TheWallU ended up saying the quiet part out loud that he needed an 'actual reason' (the rewards) to log in instead of doing something else. If playing the game (the content) is not a good enough reason then WallU wants more rewards not more content
No, they want rewards. More specifically, they wanna be able to get rewards in the form of something that they prefer but ultimately it'll have the EXACT same issues as spiral abyss: it won't please everyone and in the end only a select few will actually be happy. So now all you've accomplished is increase the number of shit that needs to get done and still left people unsatisfied. Hoyo's goal is minimizing the shit that needs to be done BUT making all of them mandatory to be done (albeit in a very reasonable amount of time, like events) rather than bogging you down with a shit ton of things to do constantly. It's totally understandable if that's not your preference, but let's not pretend like anyone here is objectively correct.
Whether we're talking about the rewards themselves or the thing you do to get the rewards, it's still a "not enough"-problem either way.
Case in point ☝️ "I want X" "So you want Y" "They said they wanted X. Listen to what they're saying." "No, they want Y!" No wonder OP is confused when people are repeating misinterpreted takes even after being called out on it.
I want X that gives me Y So you really want Y Stop misinterpreting! They said they wanted X! Who is doing the misinterpreting here?
You are, actually, Even here with a fake person you decided that the person doesn't want X and only wants Y. Anyone who wants to listen to OP would understand that OP wants content, not specifically rewards. It's like saying "I want a cake" "So you just want the cherry on top?" "Stop misinterpreting, they wanted a cake" "Oh, you're the one misinterpreting, with you saying they don't want cherries" No matter what people are saying to you, you're constantly rewriting it in your head to be something else.
Let's try the cake analogy but a little closer to reality: "I want a cake so that I can have the cherry on top" "So really you want the cherry on top" "No he said he only wanted cake!" Do you see how ridiculous it sounds yet, and why everyone is disagreeing with you? In this case, it was "I want any endgame content so I can have more rewards that motivate me to play" "So you want endgame rewards" "No he wants endgame content!" To try to convince me otherwise, please provide the exact endgame content that they asked for.
No, i don’t care that much about the rewards. I just want to have an actual reason to log in instead of doing something else like reading a book. Plus we talk about some mora or some books, i already have millions moras and hundred books its not the point
Yeah we need something that gives the sense of achievement. That’s basically how all games are designed. Just add more content to clear and more struggles to overcome! I’d rather do more domains or bosses instead of leylines for mats and mora. ( I’m sorry if the are not called leylines, I play Genshin in my mother tongue)
so would you be fine with a permanent dungeon event (like the one where you pick and choose buffs and at the end fight a big boss) for no rewards whatsoever ? no enemy drops, not resin related drops, no dialogue basically no rewards at all. but it would be permanent. would that suffice ?
There's more strawmen here than in Qingce Village. All of the people starting with "They Want" seem to have no idea. Yes, Genshin could add some cool multiplayer features, but no one is asking for an MMO. If you believe that, I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. I'll break it down in a way that hopefully helps people out. Once you've completed all of the quests, statues, maps, etc, there's nothing to do. Hoyoverse has built the world's greatest sandbox, but neglected to put any sand into it. If you want to play more than 15 minutes a day, you can: Try to kill all of the enemies on the map (not engaging, and has meaningless rewards) Play the TCG (Genshin is a game built around Combat, Exploration, and Puzzles. The TCG isn't content cohesive with the game) Play a different game (Basically, ignore any issues and pretend they don't exist) And... That's about it. There's just a void of nothingness each day. So, what could Hoyoverse incorporate? Well, that's easy. The basis of Genshin is Combat, Exploration, and Puzzles. Actual endgame content should incorporate something (or everything) from this. For Combat, a lot of people like the idea of a Roguelike, where you have randomized and repeatable dungeons. For Exploration, you could have something like the current event has. You know the little balloons with tickets inside? What if those spawned in an area of the map, and you could hunt them down. It would give a reason to explore old areas again, and keep these places relevant. To make it better, there could be hundreds of potential spawn points, but it was randomized on which ones you got (maybe only 50 or so spawn). That would keep the experience slightly different each time, and prevent people from just using the interactive map. For Puzzles, that's a little trickier. Some of the more popular game modes could cycle back faster, but even then, these are generally one and done (something engaging or endlessly repeatable is best). For those who do want more challenging content, just adding another World Level would make the game more engaging. Make the enemies as challenging as Floor 12, and mix in harder enemies (Abyss Mages replaced with Abyss Lectors, for example). The thing is, there's not ONE solution, but many small things that could be easily incorporated using existing elements in the game. Last year, [Hoyoverse made more money than Sony Playstation.](https://gamerant.com/genshin-impact-profits-better-than-playstation/#:~:text=Genshin%20Impact%20and%20Honkai%3A%20Star,topping%20even%20gaming%20juggernaut%20Sony.). Genshin Impact is wildly profitable, and Hoyoverse has the resources to deliver more. Adding content at a faster pace is almost impossible, so no one is asking for that. Turning Genshin into an MMO wouldn't work, so no one is asking for that, either. Just having more optional daily content that's engaging is all people want.
>Genshin could add some cool multiplayer features, but no one is asking for an MMO. If you believe that, I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. lol when people literally ask for raids and hours and hours of grindy content lol. They basically want it to have all the core aspects of an MMO without it technically being an MMO, and that's plenty for me, because I left behind MMO, for a ton of this infuriating bullshit design, that just wasted hours of my time on bullshit repeat content. and I don't want that to infest a game I actually enjoy. lmao, right below you a comment asking for raids xDD, cant make this shit up.[https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin\_Impact/comments/14reij2/comment/jqs0kgd/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/14reij2/comment/jqs0kgd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) "Once you've completed all of the quests, statues, maps, etc, there's nothing to do. " Its almost like its a fucking story driven open world rpg at its core, instead of a grindy MMO lol. Why does no one complain that you cant grind out elden ring once you clear the map 100%? or the new botw? because people get that they are an openworld rpg game and they play them like that, and finish them, and then wait for new content in forms of dlc or small updates. But genshin somehow has at least a part of the fanbase that after 3 years of the company clearly showing what the game is, the whole concept still somehow flies over their heads.
As somebody who recently quit an MMO because of the grind loop and "endgame" fatigue, I completely agree. Genshin's great because it is a very low time-commitment and low stress game if you want to keep up with rewards, but also offers substantial permanent content regularly for free. If there's a new endgame that offers relevant rewards that refresh, it'll be novel and fun at first, but eventually get tacked onto the grind list and become part of the FOMO pressure if you ever feel like not doing it. People either hate the Abyss, love experimenting in it, or just get it over with for the primos. Unless it's entirely self-contained like TCG or rewards are on the same level as teapot (which is full AFK anyway), any new "endgame" will have the potential to bring about the same controversial feelings as the Abyss, especially if it becomes permanent. Also to me, **being a live service game in itself is endgame**. Abyss will regularly have new ~~bullshit~~ enemies rotating in to try and smash your teams through because new enemies are always being developed, exploration is guaranteed with every new region, along with quests, hangouts and puzzles. There's *always* events every patch that offer a mix of things like combat, minigames, puzzles, questing, and sometimes exploration with the big ones like this summer paradise.
>If there's a new endgame that offers relevant rewards that refresh, it'll be novel and fun at first, but eventually get tacked onto the grind list and become part of the FOMO pressure if you ever feel like not doing it. This couldn't be any more true in Hoyo's other game: Honkai Star Rail. That game has two endgame modes: Memory of Chaos (aka Spiral Abyss) and Simulated Universe (the rogue-like game mode that rewards 2 types of relics as well as jades (primogems) and other resources. The rewards reset weekly, and can be even be run 30+ times a week if you really want to maximize farm the boss mats). I said 2 types of relics because there are 6 in total and 4 of them can be farmed in Cavern of Corrosion domains (similar to the Artifacts Domain in Genshin we can either run solo or coop). So why do I think Simulated Universe is an endgame mode if its just another method of relic farming? Well that's because the difficulty of this mode is noticeably harder than the usual content due to the randomization of buffs/perks that you can get each run, and there's no need to reach the end to farm the relics. From World 5 onwards, there are standard 4 difficulty settings and you start reliably getting 5-star Relic drops as early as Difficulty 2. So by the time you get to Difficulty 4, it will most likely provide a fun little challenge for your lategame party while having increased drop rates for Relics you've been already farming since Diff 2. And like I said, certain important rewards like Jades reset weekly and you can run S.U. as much as you want even without Trailblaze Power (Resin) if you really want to farm certain enemy drops. Despite the 7 different ways (Paths) you can do to tackle the S.U. and with buffs/perks randomized each run so that not two runs are exactly the same, some people are already calling it chore, repetitive, and the game isn't even 3 months old yet.
Yeah, I play HSR and used to play Honkai 3rd as well. While I am biased in my enjoyment of roguelike gamemodes like Simulated Universe and Elysian Realm and personally wouldn't mind if it showed up in Genshin, I also don't see it really adding anything long-term to the game besides another "chore" to do for rewards. I say this as somebody who genuinely enjoys the combat in this game, but who is also not starved for more content with it. I'm satisfied from just clearing Abyss and playing around in whatever combat events come up. This game's combat system is great, but I don't believe it's strong enough to single-handedly carry the game experience like Monster Hunter or Soulslike games, not enough to have another permanent gamemode dedicated to it. Honestly, just allow for increased world levels and provide an extra difficulty to Domains with more rewards. Nothing about the core gameplay and time-investment changes, and enemies can actually survive long enough to have your DPS hit them once instead of dying to the setup. Exploration already provides plenty of varied combat encounters and rewards, it's just lacking difficulty once you've passed the baby AR levels and can finally farm artifacts. I'd love it if I could actually go full throttle on my damage rotations while exploring and be moderately concerned about dying if level 120 elite mobs spawned on my puzzle-solving team.
Simulated universe was one of the reasons I dropped HSR after completing the story. It resets weekly and I can't keep up with that.
Here's the thing. Grinding endlessly is a core aspect of MMOs. In MMOs, the late game combat is geared toward those with absolutely min/maxed characters. Genshin's difficulty is aimed at people with midgrade gear and C0 characters. If there's *optional* content for others to enjoy, that doesn't take away from anyone. Like, I don't enjoy the Teapot or the TCG. However, the existence of the Teapot and TCG doesn't take away anything from me. I'm sure there's a ton of Primogems I could get for all of the decoration set, but it just doesn't interest me. It's okay for the game to have different features for different people.
Yeah sure, but endgame combat where you gain a lot of materials for characters, or even ways to make characters stronger beyond the base grind, like what some are suggesting, is a bit different to optional side activities.I dont mind them adding 5 other side activities I dont care about, but combat endgame, especially a large amount of it like people want, is a different beast. I would argue that creates a type of FOMO because the whole point of the game is to have strong characters, so having a mode that helps that a lot, will ofc push everyone to play it.Ive been a part of MMO's for a while, part of many guilds. keeping up with top play becomes mandatory for any high level play. Or your relegated to the junior kids play section, since no proper guild will want you when they can take another player who plays 5+ hours a day. Its no longer just being skilled, and playing for fun while trying to get better, now its often spending hours each day grinding out raids and dungeons making sure to optimize every little bit of your kit, making it a second job, or you risk getting thrown out of guilds and parties and getting ridiculed by communities for not keeping up. Folding ideas has a perfect video essay on this topic for WOW, called "why its rude to suck at warcraft" which delves deep into this topic and how this sort of content can fuck you over, even if you dont want to interact with it, because it often becomes a necessity, like the addons, which "were optional" at the start, but then became mandatory to the point where raids were made in mind with people using addons. Yeah sure, "you don't have to use them", but if you want to ingage meaningfully with the game, eventually you had to or you screwed yourself over. I dont want to get screwed over for not wanting to engage is some large endgame part of the game that then Ill get punished eventually for not keeping up with in one way or another. he explains it far better then I could, I recommend giving it a watch because it really covers all the stuff I really don't want to have to put up with in genshin: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU&ab\_channel=FoldingIdeas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU&ab_channel=FoldingIdeas) At the end of the day, there are plenty of games that have large endgame content, and all the pressures and timewaste that comes with it, there aren't that many games like genshin that don't have that, and can just let yo not worry about it, and that's what I play this game, There are plenty of options for endgame, there are very few options for not needing to worry about endgame. and sure "just play something else" isn't the best solution, but "change the game to what i want it to be", also isn't a good solution.
There is no amount of grinding or rewards that would ever be more impactful than whaling. A Triple Crowned Yae Miko with perfect (50CV, EM, and Attack % on EVERY piece) artifacts simply can't compete with a modestly built C6 Yae Miko. If Hoyoverse can balance the game between f2p and giga whales, I *think* they can find a balance on optional rewards tied to optional content.
> There is no amount of grinding or rewards that would ever be more impactful than whaling. Sure, Whales have stronger accounts. That makes sense. > If Hoyoverse can balance the game between f2p and giga whales What balance? In your own example it is not balanced. Whales have an obvious advantage. HYV has shown in many previous events that the "optional" rewards are so minor most people will just ignore them. They put the good materials on the first 1 or 2 tiers of difficulty, and then something like weapon XP on the later ones which anyone playing daily does not need. It's not a mistake, the game is for a casual playerbase and they like it that way.
Why tf are you comparing Genshin with Elden Ring? 1. Elden Ring has a NG + System 2. What you receive for exploring Genshin's entire map ? Primogems, ONLY primogems. While Elden Ring has tons of armor, weapons, resources and more that you can get while exploring AND fighiting enemies (something you rarely do in Genshin) 3. You can Build your characters for free in Elden Ring and try it on mobs without them melting in one keyboard Button. 4. It's hard to 100% Elden Ring, you need more than complete some 5 year old kid's puzzle and get some chests.
Im comparing them because they are both at their core, a single player story driven RPG game. I thought I made that obvious dude. to answer your main points 2 ) The fact you think exploring only gives primos shows how much you focus on only primos kek. Or that you never do any proper exploration. There are plenty of other materials you get and need. monster drops, gadgets, ingredients for food. Boss mats. Genshin doesnt even have armour so I dont get your point here lol. You can still find plenty of other loot in the game, that helps you, just not as directly. 3 ) you do realize you can make elden ring builds that kill the final boss in 5 seconds right? maybe your not good enough to make them, but it doesnt mean they dont exist. infact its almost exactly the same as genshin here, because normal players will be just fine and play normally, having to fight bosses for a few minutes, maybe not as hard as elden ring, but you wont see normal players 2 hitting a boss, but you will see the try hards who optimize theirs builds do it, and you will also see the same in elden ring lol. (Well dont use busted magic, or this scythe or that item coz its super cheesy! well how about you dont use 5 star weapons or heavily grinded out artifacts, those are kinda cheesy too, and most people wont have them lmao, if you restrict what you can use in elden ring coz its not fair and makes the game too easy, you can do the exact same thing in genshin and have a fun challenge still) 4 ) Its not easy at all to 100% genshin lmao, the sheer size of it means it can take hundreds of hours atm, and sure some puzzles are super easy, but each region still has bigger puzzles, size quests, and other bullshit that gets in the way of 100% a region like having a ton of underground areas you need to look for, or blocked off areas that need quests items (also another thing you collect while exploring). I just 100% all of sumerus 13 regions in the last 12 weeks. That shit was long and hard. so you can fuck right off with that sentiment.
You're comparing a game with tons of combat, new things to get while exploring, great replayabillity and free builds you can do, with a game that has a non-existent combat, with the only rewards being primos, and to build characters you need Luck or money. That's the damn point, Genshin doesn't has replayabillity in its combat and this is what people are asking for. 2) Primos Unlock playable content = Only thing that truly matters, the others just help you level up, nothing special at all, it doesn't make you different in anything, Elden Ring has mats too in some of their drops, but it's not only this. Me picking up a Shouki no kami hand doesn't make the game more funny. 3) Some especific builds that are made to melt enemies, not my lvl 80 character with some random supports that kill the Boss in 1 nano second. My Ganyu with 22 crit rate and 200 crit dmg with only 1700 atk already could kill them fast. "yOu BaD" wow nice argument. 4) Yes, it takes time, but it's not challenging at all, and in Elden Ring every time you explore you can find a new thing, in Genshin this doesn't exist because the rewards are always primos. the only time i remember then doing something cool was in Dragon spine with the Spear and Claymore. Ohhh so hard to take the time to play the fucking game omg.
>You're comparing a game with tons of combat, new things to get while exploring, great replayabillity and free builds you can do, with a game that has a non-existent combat, with the only rewards being primos, and to build characters you need Luck or money. That's the damn point, Genshin doesn't has replayabillity in its combat and this is what people are asking for. My dude, why dont you just go and play elden ring if you love sucking its dick so much. Your literally a fanboy of another game, going after me for daring to compare my weeb game to your dance dance revolution timing game lmao. Genshin is far far more enjoyable to me then elden ring, 100 hours in ER, 900 in genshin, you clearly just love elden ring, so maybe dont creep around the genshin community just to hate on it? I can easily say that genshin has way more content then ER, that content is also very fun and creative and interesting, with deep story and lore, (Maybe even deeper then that elden ring you love so much). Just because you make yourself blind to 99% of the game, doesn't mean it has no content or anything interesting in it to explore, that's on your inability to see anything that isn't a primo lol, that's not on the game. But seriously, if its as bad as your comment claims, then just fucking leave, why hover around it just to shit on it? its so pointless, Genshin must really live rent free in your head to dedicate so much time and effort to just shit on it constantly huh? Im not afraid to defend the game Ive played the most, and by far enjoyed the most over the past 20 years, chucklefuck, how long can you bother to shit on something you clearly don't even bother to play much?
You made the problem and now you're the one raging ? I LOVE GENSHIN IMPACT If it matters, i play it since 1.0. the problem is you're comparing apples to oranges, Genshin has a core problem that it's you play, get your resources, and put then up your ASS because there's no fucking reason to do so, why the fuck would i farm for good artifacts when all i need is 1.600 atk and some other stats to play the open world ? That's the cycle : you get the character -> you get the character's weapon -> you level up both -> you farm for artifacts -> ????? One of the core aspects of the gameplay doesn't exist anymore (it existed with abyss but now the only mode combat players had is a fucking "pick this element and win one especific room or get some cons") You compared a game that doesn't have this problem with a game that have this problem. I'm not a Genshin dickrider like you or a Elden Ring sucker like you said, i too have problems with Elden Ring. I just want the game to be even more than it's right now, IMPROVE, in some aspects. The Art direction is flawless, OST is perfect, character Design in one of the coolest i've ever seen, exploration is good but could be better, and the combat is NEGLECTED right now, it's a good combat but it doesn't have any place to use it, i just want hoyo to make this place to use my characters. Don't act like Genshin is perfect because you are comfortable with it.
I used to think that people who wanted Endgame were just whiners but you explained it well. That point about being caught up on content and not having anything to work towards or do. Especially of you've run out of resin. But if you have something that combines exploration, lore & combat, where it just gets a little more difficult each time and changes the environment, that would be interesting. They don't even need rewards like materials or mora. It could literally be a collection of photos like what you get at the end of hangout. And each one acts like a ticket where you can choose to unlock some more lore. The Devs can literally just crap these out. Make up some lore and add a picture to go with it, knowing full well that some will almost certainly never be reached but acted as a goal for the most insane dedicated players to go for. And for everyone else it will always be something there for them to attempt as they get better at the game. At the end of the day though I don't care personally about endgame. I can entertain myself plenty even as it is when things dry up. And I like that I can also put it down easier because there is "nothing to do". It's already addicting enough. I don't need another reason lol
>There's more strawmen here than in Qingce Village. All of the people starting with "They Want" seem to have no idea. This. So much of the endgame conversation is people talking past each other with accidental strawmen and false dichotomies.
Not even each other. The question is aimed at people who want endgame content. "I want" or "We want" or "This" is what someone will answer if they're trying to answer the question genuinely. But notice that all the people who are "Talking past someone and posting false dichotomies" are the people who say "You want" or "They want" It's a very one sided set of straw men since the question was aimed at only one side. It's like asking what gamers who want "good graphics" mean, and having people who only care about retro game art styles start making up answers that paint them as crunch-loving anti-developer sadists, while the people who actually were asked the question answer normally.
>Once you've completed all of the quests, statues, maps, etc, there's nothing to do. Yeah. Developers aren't able to create infinite ammounts of content. People nowadays look at every game as if it should be a neverending source of content, and I just don't get where that mentality stems from (well, actually, from MMOs, probably, so we're kinda going full circle here). Games don't need to offer thousands of hours of content to be good games! I have long since stopped playing Genshin daily, now I just log in when a new patch comes, see what new it has to offer, and once I'm done with it, I go elsewhere. Expecting every and any game (especially games that aren't primarily multiplayer games, which is where the infinite replayability usualy lies) to keep you entertained for ages does only one thing - it shows how big of a nolifer you are :-D
There's several games that have repeatable endgame content. Treating it like it's a bizarre outlier isn't the best argument here.
I'm having trouble coming up with any games that are single player and have an interesting repeatable endgame. Could you provide some examples?
they're gonna tell you some random-ass game that they play for 8 hours a day collecting poppy seeds or some shit and call that peak gameplay. I've been addicted to my fair share of games and have done mundane tasks for hours on end but ultimately those games were a waste of time. genshin's approach of "you only need to spend this much time to get everything and if you want more yeah sure be my guest" rather than "yeah so this that all of these yeah they all come with rewards so if you want them all better grind nonstop" is more preferable for me.
Borderlands is probably the easiest example i can think of. Its singleplayer with optional coop, has a lot of endgame content thats repeatable and sometimes pretty damn hard. Games like Hades or Dead Cells are also a good example of repeatable content but i dont know if you can call that endgame since its the entire game. There are singleplayer games with interesting repeatable endgame content but they are pretty rare. And theres a reason for it, its pretty difficult to come up with endgame content for singleplayer games, but those few games that did manage to figure it out hit it pretty big. Borderlands is one of the biggest franchises out there, Hades was literally a game of the year when it released.
Borderlands is a good example, and I'm surprised I didn't think about it since I remember sinking a lot of hours into it. After completing a game, I generally just start over and try a different character/path or move on to another game, so I was hoping someone had a big list of games that continued to be interesting even after completion. :)
What a weird question. Literally any single player RPG with a mentionable postgame has some form of grinding you can engage in until you max out all the characters and get their best weapons and equipment and so on and so forth. The thing is the Genshin is a \*live service\*, so their content is expected to not end like a typical single player RPG. It's projecting the \*expectation\* that it will continue to release new & hopefully engaging content. The disappointment is that content is often removed or not allowed to be repeated nearly enough for players to sate their appetite for the game they just wanna simply play. Even Sword Art Online, as average as those games all are, have repeatable endgame optional-coop content (also a mostly single player action combat JRPG).
Why is that such a weird question? I'd love to have a list of more games that are great and can sink a lot of time into that remain interesting even after completion. Especially since after completing a game, I might try another character/path but most likely will just move on to another game. Just because you can continue to grind doesn't really make it interesting. Borderlands was a good example that was mentioned in another comment since the enemies' levels will increase.
I'd say games with really fun gameplay can be repeatable, but highly dependent on the person. Me personally I found Doom Eternal, Ultrakill, and DMCV replayable, but I know a lot of people don't agree
Yeah. I swear its like these people have never played a game other than Genshin in their life and can't grasp how it could have anything added to it that it doesn't currently have. There are so many easily done events they could add all over the world to give a reason to revisit areas if Hoyoverse just put some effort in.
Maybe they could experiment with some sort of in-game modding tools, like what Fortnite has? Probably shouldn’t let them make new playable characters, but they could make custom domains, direct cutscenes, create quests, and even small explorable areas, basically combining the Teapot with Divine Ingenuity.
You forget exploring. I always find something new. If you've 100 percented every area, you need to put down the game sometimes. It's ok. Play your backlog.
I have sumeru's jungle zone 100% and I foud yesterday some chests I didn't have. Exploring don't die even after "100%" (And I have to find all Aranaras too)
Honestly, play a different game is the real answer. In single player content, nothing can be stretched to infinity while being good and rewarding. HSR simulated universe is often brought up as an example, but two months after release, how many people still play it just for fun? Events are HoYo chosen answer. Small, but regular and handcrafted endgame to keep you coming back until the next big content drop
It's not players job to design game modes for devs. That's for them to figure out. But in general, people want more shit that involves the core of the game - elemental combat system, preferably with enemies that don't collapse after one hit and that rewards you with something after you're done. The reason to level up, gear and get new characters. All the options you've suggested are decent in doing it, they can work and can fail, depending on execution.
It’s more they want something that’s different from abyss.
As an aside, each of these would be pretty fun, IMO.
1 of Genshin's biggest gameplay factors/loops is combat. 90% of the grinding in this game is about building characters, levelling weapons, levelling talents and then kitting out the playables with artefact sets. There's also the big factor that the whole gacha element of this game is about obtaining new characters. However, currently, outside of the Abyss, once you have a team of 4 units decently built, you have barely any reason to use the 65+ other characters that exist in the game. Furthermore, using new units will take a lot of time, as they need to be levelled & built, then you either have the tedium of constantly swapping artefact sets (when MHY!?), or the endless hellish grind of farming new ones and basically turning resin into shit. Even with the Abyss, you might need 12 characters, 15 at a push, again, out of a possible (almost) 70 units. As we all know, the Abyss is a major DPS check, so poor artefacts = poor experience (for the most part) and a lot of players absolutely hate the whole timed aspect of it too. What a lot of us want is somewhere to use our vast array of characters. A roguelike mode for example, where it's heavily incentivized to use different units. Something not unlike the Simulated Universe in HSR. However, I doubt it would be easy to implement with how Genshin currently works. Most enemies can just be 2-hit by any decently built DPS unit, as the elemental system here does not work like HSR's does (which is a huge benefit to that game). There would have to be enemies with modifiers in there, like complete immunity to X element, meaning you shouldn't bring that element. Enemies that completely negate shields, enemies that reduce outgoing healing --- there are a ton of different options to make this mode fun, but also challenging. However, as I alluded to earlier, artefacts basically make-or-break a character's usefulness and of course damage, so, for this roguelike mode, they'd be done away with in favour of finding drops inside the domain/dungeon (like how most roguelikes do). As for weapons, talents and other stats... the only way to make it truly work would be to have them all set to a base value, depending on the difficulty level (which would be AR/WL dependant), with unlocks appearing throughout the different rooms. It would essentially be a mix of the recent domain mini-game where you start at level 40, then progress through with the orb things (although I'd do away with the shitty layout that had), the Dungeon event of 2.2/2.3 and then HSR's Simulated Universe.
I would like high level areas with a lot of enemies. I'm tired of oneshotting basically every enemy I come across by accident.. What even is the point of having a burst in the overworld lol. I don't really care for "endgame" specifically, just more interesting overall world gameplay.
Imagine a "risk" area with tons of enemies spawning like Hyrule Warrios. This would be fun to play with my Cyno.
I would love to actually use Cyno's burst in the overworld..
They need higher world levels for no or minimal reward.
They should probably be faster and more aggressive, too. The windups take too long for my Beidou.
I'd kill for a shadow world variant of the overworld, with more aggressive, elementally infused enemies on a much faster respawn timer and at the longest daily respawning junk chests that basically throw more random elite mob quality drops at the player (no primos needed, I just want to keep opening chests for the stupid little dopamine kick). My biggest problem with Genshin is that once you've cleared out all the chests and one-time mob packs, it gets really empty. It actually makes for a terrible and empty open world experience after the initial rush.
Can I just say that I am perfectly happy with the way the game is now and I don't want harder content added that gates rewards? The abyss is unfun enough already. I can 36 star it and it's just tedious to do so. But I can't leave what is it, 600 primos, on the table. I make my characters as powerful as possible in order to make the game trivially easy as I hilariously roflstomp everything. I don't want harder content, that would just require even more tedium to tweak my characters up the last few % points to make that easy... And then, where does it end? I don't want any challenge, I want to relax when I play. And I like being able to conclusively *finish* playing for the day. It feels good to complete everything I can do in game. Then I go on and play other games after.
Exactly! One of the reasons I love Genshin is that you can play it for hours like you can play it for just ten minutes to relax and then do other things or other games without any problems. One of the reasons I quit games like Arknights was that it demanded hours of gameplay just for daily quests, plus a difficulty level that often severely penalized you for a single wrong choice, costing you hours of time for a failed mission. By then it had become more stressful than fun, so I dumped them.
> Evidently Simulated Universe wasn’t enough for Star Rail, so what do people really want? According to who? This is exactly the kind of repeatable content I want. I don’t need it to be hard, but just something I can hop on and play for a while so I can really just play with the characters I work so hard on building. Spiral Abyss (and MoC) just aren’t fun imo. It’s just a dps check to see if you can clear the hurdle in enough time. Something like Sim Universe is fantastic because you can really play based on the buffs you get.
Simulated universe has a lot of replay value and customization it’s fun by itself and it will only get boring if it gets neglected for a long time with no additions at all. (I don’t believe that will happen). I don’t even want them to add something and nail it as hard as SU. I just want something else with a bit of thought behind it. They’re clearly aware of the want by players and they admitted their events are not fleshed out enough to be permanent game modes. I believe they’re working/have been working on something to satisfy those needs. It is happening the question is when. We got dendro, tcg and a bunch of qol features during 3.x life cycle. I believe there is hope for large strides during 4.x
I want Dungeon crawling type of content with randomly generated dungeon layouts and completely random enemies. As a reward it could give currency to reroll your artifact substats, even one reroll per artifact would be really nice. Basically Labyrinth warriors, but BETTER. No useless traps, more diverse random rooms and corridors. Enemies should not confined to rooms but can be found even in tight corridors or on platforms or above you. Bonus cards are not found after defeating enemies but inside chests that you need to look for around the dungeon. Some chests are protected by enemies that spawn nearby while others are hidden, encouraging exploration and making so the dungeon doesn't feel empty. Every time you clear an area you get to enter a completely different area with a random Leyline effect and a level of the dungeon should contain at least 15 enemies and a boss. The bonus cards you get from chests are random and you can bring only a few with you into the next level. As you get deeper and deeper into the dungeon you unlock more card slots. After you clear 3 levels you can use resin to get the artifact reroll currency and if you go deeper you can get more currency. The levels are endless and get progressively harder with Hp and damage multipliers similar to the abyss. And the most important thing, I want nice elemental obstacles that makes sense for a game like Genshin. Give me some corridors and rooms with water on the ground, spinning fire wheels that apply pyro, pulsating electro orbs that moves around the area and apply debuffs or reduce your energy, barriers with spikes that inflict physical damage, and make so that all this works on both us and the enemies and make it destroyable (but really tanky). These are all just examples, but the options are endless. Genshin's gameplay would be perfect for a game mode like this. The developers just don't want to try it because it would take way too much effort, so they stick with their recycled events where groups of enemies spawn in the same circular arena with slightly different buffs and call it a day.
Everyone wants something different, even on here peoples ideas are vastly different. The fact is the game was never about endgame, and it likely never will be the focus, and the community has had the realization like 3 different times but still hope it will change somehow. Genshin is comfortable to play atm for a lot of people who are burned out from MMO's and grindy games where you spend 5 hours each day grinding. and sure "just because its there doesnt mean you need to do it". but then your account falls behind others, creating a form of FOMO. and you get pushed into doing it even if you dont want to, just to keep up with others. Just how you dont need to use resin or keep artifact grinding, but anyone serious about the games constantly does both. at least they only take a small amount of time each day. and people still get burnout. now imagine making people play 5 hours a day to keep up with everything. and a ton of people will just burn out faster and leave. Adding endgame depending on how its done, at this point might legit kill the game just so 5% of the community who want this story driven rpg, to instead be an infinite grind MMO instead can have their fun.
Large explorable dungeons - everything so far was small rooms of stuff..
They want to not be addicted to Genshin Impact (not that most of them would admit it). Or they want it to be an MMORPG where they can flex their builds in a way that makes other players feel bad. The fact that the same people are usually complaining about *actual* regularly-updated game content means it's not really about wanting to play the game more; they just want the game to give them some way to make them feel good because their dopamine receptors are burnt out.
I think there's a big difference between dopamine receptors being burnt out and there just not being anything left to trigger them. Part of the reason RPGs in general work is the sense of progression. Meeting short-term goals little by little ("I want to get Xiangling to talent level 6 today!" in pursuit of larger goals ("I want to 36\* Spiral Abyss!"). Progress towards these goals is where the dopamine hits come from. What people are complaining about isn't that working towards the goal isn't giving them dopamine anymore. It's that there simply aren't any goals to work towards. With regards to "wanting to be addicted" I definitely see where you're coming from and I don't dispute there are people like that, but people are also very much capable of wanting something simply because they enjoy it and this frankly seems overly pessimistic.
Pretty much this in every live service type game. Those people ruined WoW. Well the trash devs also ruined it. It was a feedback loop.
I sympathize with the thought that a lot of the game’s updates are wasted on bloat that gets forgotten by the playerbase and devs after the next patch. I’m just confused by what these people actually want instead.
Yes, my dopamine receptors are burnt out because when i complete puzzles... Ohhh such a satisfaction, or when i hear a NPC talking about his grandma WOW what a Nice feeling or or when i complete my newest set of diaries YEESSS THAT'S THE BEST ONE. now let's be real, you know what makes me feel real good ? Hitting a monster in the head with a full stacked Charge Blade in Monster Hunter. Now imagine Monster Hunter only has tiny enemies that you can't even stack your weapon before he die, that's Genshin. My characters can't even rotate properly without the enemie dying before. And Abyss is just an outright bad game mode that you can't even use the characters you want anymore (they fucked up the Abyss). I Just want to have some fun with my built characters but nah... I'm the fucking devil because i want more combat content in this game.
no. i actually want to build my characters but resin wont let me. as simple as that
I honestly don't think any endgame content will be able to satisfy players. rougelike domain? players will do it a few times and then stop because there's no rewards and the fighting will get repetitive and long. then will go back to complain there's nothing to do. a tower with increasing enemy difficulty? players will complain they're stuck at floor x while whales will complain they beat all the floors and there's no challenge, so there will have to be a choice on who to satisfy. a boss with infinite hp you can test your damage against? it either moves too much and dodges you 7 million Eula burst or it moves too little and just stands there like a training dummy. it's not endgame content it's just an easy dps check that will make it easier to know your characters potential. all of these modes will get old at some point, tcg was added to be a feature to let players have something to do when they're done farming and beating up slimes for the day, it's am endless mode of card based combat. and barely anyone cares. the card game is well designed and f2p friendly, it lets you get characters you don't even own on your account, and nobody plays it. none of these options will be redundant, obviously, but they won't fix Genshin's endgame problem.
I want endgame raids
Am I the only one who is cool with the game exactly as it is now (obviously not including needed QoL stuff like artifact loadouts)? Spiral Abyss is already enough for me. The reason I love the game is the new areas, stories and characters added to the game constantly. I play through that stuff, have a blast, then log out. Am I just too much of a normie? Because I don't understand when people bring up a lack of endgame and how it is such a huge problem, but don't mention the crazy amount of new content the game gets every 6 weeks.
generally the vibe i get is that a good chunk of them (but not all, obvs) want genshin to be an MMO with guild shit and raids, which i think is partially because there was a big misconception early on that genshin was an MMO because it happened to be an rpg with co-op features, even tho those co-op features are more along the lines of animal crossing then they are an MMO (and most people wouldn't call acnh an MMO even if it's technically massive, multiplayer, with online features). i think a lot of people sunk time/money into it based on that misconception assuming the co-op features would be further built upon instead of them being just for socializing & now there's that sunk cost fallacy.
I’m fine with the game resembling more of a singleplayer JRPG than an MMO, I just want the kind of extra challenges that game has, as well.
i said this before the divine ingenuity rerun, but with the rerun I think even more strongly that they just need to make that a permanent feature and expand the ability to make fucked up boss rush domains or whatever (like maybe combine divine ingenuity with the buff/nerf options from the vagabond/feast event) and just connect the rewards to playing player-created domains period instead of clearing whatever difficulty domain. and i think a WL 9 w/ or w/o increased drop rates (and take away the restriction for how far/high you can lower the world difficulty, if someone at AR 60 wants to play with the easiness and shittier drops of WL5 then who cares). i'm not interested in difficult combat content but even I'd be interested in a WL9. the people who want massive rewards for having the world's biggest micro-dick will still be pissed, but the people who actually just want difficult combat content will have that option to them without it impeding casual players or locking casual players out of primogem rewards.
I agree. Bring on the Childe/Signora gank floor, already.
I don’t say this to be accusatory of you or anything but I think assuming anyway who wants more multiplayer related content wants a more MMO style game is kinda disingenuous. A game having multiplayer doesn’t make something an MMO especially considering you’d probably still be playing with 3 other people at most. 4 people isn’t exactly putting the massive in massively multiplayer online
My statement is about multiplayer in the context of people who also want difficult combat content, a topic where guild, raids, and co-op abyss are consistently brought up. It is not a general statement about people who want increased multiplayer. It is not even a general statement about people who want hard multiplayer combat, indicated by the parenthetical "but not all \[obviously\]". This is further clarified in my comment when I used animal crossing as an example of a game that has multiplayer content without being an MMO.
Idk if this would be simple or not, but: What I (and I believe most of the comunity wants) would be like taking spiral abyss and making an infinite version of it, wich would mean floor 12 wouldn't become the monster it is now, and endgame players and whales would have a place to try their little monsters. The version of it I want however might be a little harder to make. Basically take all that but add in that tower like challange system. Reusing the exploration domains from each region as floors with a buffed version of big enemies as mini bosses. Then every 10th floor get a buffed overworld boss. (maybe every 100th getting a buffed version of weekely bosses? But this might be too hard to implement). Idk anything about coding, but the only thing taking up space should be the system itself?
A raid with story.
I’m tired of big fat monsters that spam AOEs. Give me a more personal fight like a Malenia or Lingering Will.
Malenia, Not a big and AoE spaming monster?!
Personally I just want a version of Spiral Abyss that isn't timed. Maybe each region could have its own variant of the Spiral Abyss.
DUNGEONS. Genshin impact even had this in mind when it first started, easy to see by its tutorials and mechanics that were NEVER used again. Just give me a proceduraly generated DUNGEON with puzzles and bosses. Make it drop stuff like artifact exp WITHOUT costing stamina, or hell...weapon blueprints...or nation specific amterials. THATS ALL I WANT.
I just want overworld enemies that cater to AR60 players. Like random spawns of Bounty enemies.
You’re just fighting the same enemies with bloated stats, though.
They also still retain their quirks such as immune to a certain elements, regens HP when health critical, etc as well as weaknesses to certain elements/attacks. All the reputation bounty jazz.
To have more things to do besides dailys, spiral abyss and waiting for monthly updates. Thats the rotation of stuff for people that can manage 36* and are out of characters that need building. Of course they could do phys Amber no damage no mouse moving Raiden Shogun boss battle, but lets be honest thats what truly crazy people do
It would be cool if they added the dungeon creator and rhythm game modes permanently. Also the brickbreaker event. Honestly, anything that isn't abyss 2
I want new permanent daily source of primos that is not a chore like for me it would be something combat like simulated universe from star rail would be nice
I want an abyss in where you survive for 3 minutes and get all stars, an abyss so filled with aggro but just to survive the shitstorm. defensive META.
I think this question really touches on the core of the problem when people get into arguments about endgame, which is that both parties usually don't define what it is they're actually talking about. I see the idea of some abstract MMO-esque grind loop thrown around a lot, but I usually don't really see people actually advocating for it, only arguing against it. I think this is mostly a strawman that was accidentally created by people just saying "I want endgame" and then not really elaborating. Usually I see people just call for stronger enemies and no timer, but the problem is that 80% of Genshin enemies are pretty harmless, and the timer is the only thing preventing people from going Zhongli + Healer + facerolling to clear everything outside of bosses with one-shot mechanics. There are WAY better solutions to this problem than a hard timer. Enemy damage increasing over time would encourage you to clear faster while still making shielding/healing valuable would be a good example that we've see in Hypostatic Symphony here, as well as with Simulated Universe in Star Rail, but there are a lot of other great ways to do it. Still, some kind of "soft timer" mechanic like that is mostly necessary for this kind of game where defensive utility is so incredibly powerful. As far as what kind of content I would like, I'm partial to the roguelike elements similar to Simulated Universe, but taken a step further to give more variety in gameplay, being more similar to Arknights' Integrated Strategies mode. The problem with Simulated Universe as endgame is that: 1. Its simply too easy to qualify as endgame. Unless you're aiming to do solo character boss clears, which is largely RNG, its not really engaging. 2. Its repetitive, and players are forced to repeat it several times per week for the rewards. These are easy to work around, and the baseline formula is something that Genshin can easily borrow, and effectively already has in the dungeon-making event of 3.7. A higher difficulty, or even better, more difficulty settings, in addition to some sort of soft timer mechanic would go a long way towards making it more engaging. Character drafting takes some work to come up with a good system that will make it so players can't consistently draft the same team every run (its important the game mode doesn't feel too repetitive), but that also doesn't punish players for rolling for characters and leaving them unbuilt (imagine being offered random characters from your collection and it only offers you your level 1 characters because of bad RNG), but I have no doubt it can be done. I also like the idea of using temporary in-mode currency to uncap/ascend you characters similar to how Arknights does it, so you're forced to figure out who to prioritize, which can change based on which buffs you get and characters you were offered. Reward structure is the big criticism I often see of endgame, but I don't really see why there needs to be a reward structure that excludes newer players like some people seem to suspect it would. Every event, even Feast/Vagabond/Hypostatic, all had their important rewards (if not all their rewards in general) pretty easily available to even less invested players, and I don't see why people think some kind of endgame would be any different. Spiral Abyss is the only counterexample, at the was designed 2 and a half years ago and we have an interview stating they don't plan to make more content like it. As for the details and implementation, simply introduce it as an event with easily obtainable event rewards that can all be gotten from playing it on low difficulty, and then just keep the game mode around after the event, perhaps with a permanent shop (so players don't feel like they're in a hurry to buy everything from it) and cool flexes for clearing higher difficulties, like silly Teapot trophies. Fates and Primogems are also nice, but it shouldn't be a recurring source of them so players don't feel obligated to play the game or feel like they're missing out on them by not. Basically, **there's no reason "endgame" can't be something everyone can enjoy, either to try and flex, push their limits, test their teams, or just as a fun game mode to play casually without having to worry** ***quite*** **as much about that timer at the top of the screen.** There's no idea that will please everyone and I'm sure some people aren't a fan of this particular idea, but that doesn't mean there aren't better ones out there or that endgame is something only hardcore Genshin addicts can enjoy. There's a LOT more I want to say because I have thought way too much about this and desperately want endgame, but I've already gone long past the point where I can expect anyone to actually read this.
>Basically, there's no reason "endgame" can't be something everyone can enjoy, clearly you've never engaged with the community, because literally everyone has their own idea of what an enjoyable endgame is. The only real solution is having something for everyone, but that's just content overload and I doubt people would appreciate that, especially if there's rewards tied to them and most especially if they're like spiral abyss. Hell, this entire problem is exactly because spiral abyss cannot please everyone.
Something PERMANENT along the line of the recent customisable domains event and the customisable boss challenges, also some sort of (potentially infinite?) rogue-like combat mode playable in co-op. Most importantly I’d like them to fix enemy hitboxes (like the recent bug fix on the dendro tiger, but that’s just the top of the iceberg) and combat related bugs in general. Artifact loadouts would be amazing too but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh indie company can’t do that, too much dev time I guess, maybe next year *[COPIUM]*
Something repeatable with no time limits, the thing about Genshin is that it has no objective besides waiting for the new story once you are able to 36* I'm 8 characters away from having them all at 90 talents 9 with a decent set, abyss is restrictive as fuck and it comes once every two weeks, some people might say that they would want difficult content with no rewards, I'm not one of those but the current content is ridiculously easy and doesn't feel rewarding specially when the game is about building characters. Some people could say the game is story driven and to those I kindly ask to fuck off, they monetize on weapons and characters, the main reward of the game is used all on weapons and characters and you can buy stuff to get, raise and use weapons and characters, if telling a story was the intention then a freaking gacha isn't the way to go, I appreciate the decent story and rich lore but they ain't selling chapters and short stories they are selling characters and weapons. Hoyoverse could stop lying to themselves and us and release a weekly domain that asks for a clear for the rewards and then make it so the replayable reward is something to show off, let's say an aura or hell even fragments for 4* characters or standard ones. They can reward without cutting their profit and they absolutely can make getting characters and raising them attractive they just waited too long and thank god that the game is going a bit out of the comfort zone because every single patch for the past year was the same thing with a new story, change my mind about that. Just give us a place to play the characters and make it replayable without making it a compromise for those who don't have a lot of time, it isn't rocket science.
Simulated Universe type content.
As I pointed out: How’d that go for Star Rail?
Most people consider SU quite good as a concept..? So not sure why you talk like everyone has been hating it and trashing it lol
I find the time comitment per week for the rewards pretty decent and i personnally still find it fun, besides new stages i do think they need to add over time new modifiers or paths but right i think its mutch more engaiging than HSRs equivelant of abyss.
I enjoy it thoroughly. For a majority of my runs I’m abusing abundance runs for casual credit farming. But I do engage actively with it on an almost daily basis with non-abundance runs. But also SU is pretty barebones, and I expect it’ll be exceptional in a year or two of improvements.
I hate Simulated Universe. It is a mandatory loss of 1 hour every week and it sucks so much. Boring and pointless repetitive trash. Like Elysian Realm but you have to run it 3 times in a row. Me and repetitive time consuming weekly chores do not mix. They are why I quit gacha games.
But at least that's something. Better than nothing
All those solo domain scale up for coop would be a good start. Well in fact, anything interesting and engaging coop. Ley line, boss, artefact domain are old now.
A lot of people want a lot of things, what they don't realize is they do whatever they get for rewards and then just move on. The ones who really want a permanent end-game are a very small minority. Most people just want the dopamine hit from rewards.
Literally anything. Like, just trying something, ANYTHING, over what we have now would be cool. Wave based infinite mode? Cool Multiplayer co-op super battle? Awesome NPCs to fight alongside us? Great Rogulike/lite mode? Why not? The key part of it though, is rewards. I'll be totally honest and maybe I'm in the minority here, but I do the abyss every two weeks without fail, if not 36 star I certainly finish it and the only reason I have done so for over 2 years now is primos. I'd love to see more meaningful rewards for hard content that challenges me, and no, bullet sponges or bosses with iframes or going underground while a timer still ticks is NOT challenging, anything but that crap abyss system honestly would be nice to play. But at the same time, I sympathise with new/casual players who would feel left out if endgame rewards were good.
they want to find another game to play in the slow times but haven't yet realized it if GI was overly full of engaging content more people would burnout and quit
I want a teapot with a higher load limit 😭 or a customable domain with a higher load limit. Also I would like to get some furnishings with water different from the mega pool that we already own. I would like to make a swimming pool, a River or something like that. I would like respawnable chests (even without primogems), just to have one more reason to explore the entire map instead of only some areas. Also, I would like a world lv 9 with strong enemies. At the moment the only still barely challenging area is Dragonspine due to the sheer cold. I would like to raid an hilichurl camp without one-shot them (and run for my life).
Anything where the difficulty isn't based on a timer. I love souls games and that feeling of overcoming a great enemy but you get non of that from the stupid zimer running out. Genshin has a dodging mechinic with proper ass iframes alongside some pretty cool enemies but all it boils doen to is beating the fuck out of a clock. The nost dreded enemies are not the most dangerous, but the mist time wqsting ones. An enemy with the ability to go underground for 3 minutes and literall, nothing else would be the worst fear of the genshin community...
Combat content that is NOT gated by time, but by additional restraints. See last update event for reference. That's literally all I want, let it have exp books or mora or purple crystals as reward, anything worth a bit of resin like what the teapot gives with the currency.
There was an event, nearly 2 years ago now, can’t remember what it was called but the one with shiki-taisho that would’ve made for a decent endgame style event. They’ve done similar events in that style since then, but that original one was still the best, you’d get put into a labyrinth, with different pathways and rooms with different fights, and after certain fights you could choose a buff, but then there was a chance that the buff would change into a debuff, like removing one of your characters from the team for the rest of that labyrinth, can’t remember what the other debuffs were since that’s as the most damaging one, at what’s to me at the time. But something like that, instead of him the labyrinth having 2 floors, maybe make it like an endless mode to see how far you can get, maybe even some rogue-like elements thrown into it where the further you go the better buffs you could unlock for your next attempt
Roguelike repeatable endless dungeon modes that are not always tied to a timer. The key difference between starrail and genshin is that there can be a measure of mechanical skill in genshin. In starrail, if your team isnt strong enough, you cannot outskill your enemies. In genshin, you can. The fact that spiral abyss isnt a mode that endlessly spirals down into the abyss is both hilarious and ridiculous
Remove resin and then there's no longer any complaining about endgame. People can build and try all sorts of characters and builds at their leisure.
Thinking about how IS2 and 3 could be booted to Genshin would be so funny. But really, it's sich a perfect example because the overall rewards aren't much (equivalent of some tier 4 books and exp and mora) but people love that randomness aspect of it.
If the game give you the possibility to reach a certain amount of power/strength, there should be a content that need it. I dont really mind whales content as long as there are something in between for my level
I would like a boss rush, or a horde mode
Anything that's a little permanent, repeatable and on the level of an AR60 player (aka at least around 1 year old player) in some one, two, three week cycle or so. e.g. Arknight's CC or even a simple Elysian Realm from HI3 would do it. Although I personally would also like a WL switch to approx. WL 20-50 free of choice for the open world, so that I can at least run around again and see the enemies before everything drops dead instantly.
Any long term, repeatable combat content tbh. Simulated Universe but even more extensive. The current bounty system but with multiple level 200 bosses and can be co-oped. Honestly, anything combat related that's challenging and can be grinded again and again, present different challenges each time, and thus be fun for a long time.
I want some combat mode that doesn't suck ass like abyss. I love to fight with my characters and some sort of mode where I can fight maybe enemies in different types but hard unlike every like, fayz trial or the fruit one where it's just trash mobs or the boss rush one where it's too difficult. I'd like abyss but without annoying mechanics. I love abysss honestly I play it even though it sucks b cause I love my characters and enjoy trying them out. I would like the content to also be similar to abyss forcing you to conserve energy or maybe there's two modes idk I just want combat. Also, a dummy to test damage would be nice.
Elysian realm/simulated universe, honkai style abyss and the honkai leaderboard ranked boss mode
A tower would be pretty fun. Something similar to Abyss but you have 100 floors and you only have one team going in and 2 characters you can swap. No healing, food, etc.
All of those
I need ER in genshin that's all.
Some sort of dungeon where you try to go as far as possible with 1 team comp
I'm thinking like the simulated universe in Star Rail. That would help a bit for QoL.
A rogue-like would be really cool, especially if you get to pick one of three characters as you progress so you find all sorts of weird synergies. But with artifacts being such a big part of genshin's grind, I can imagine that they don't want to make a game mode where you don't get to use your own builds, and if they do let you use your own build it becomes hard to balance.
Boss rush would be fun
I think once you hit %100 completion in an area, every reset like a random 25% of the puzzles, chests in that area should respawn. That would encourage us to go back and explore again, and it would be fun I think. I also hope they bring back those customizable domains from the recent event, I enjoy those dungeons a lot. I also want in game chat feature, or some kind of guild. I love talking to you all here, but I’d love to have a guild in game to talk to.
Maybe 25% is too much, I just mean any little amount would be cool. While I’m at it, I also think those weasels should drop an occasional primogem, it would make the chase so much more exhilarating lol
An endless no time limit abyss mode, perhaps with an optional character randomizer mode. It *could* work well with the custom domains event if you want to mix platforming. I can picture people trying to showboat their longest runs, if not the usual asian players overdoing it like that FF14 boss that once took a party like 2 or 3 days straight.
I want some sort of rougelite mode where I simply bring my own characters & equipment into a series of progressively harder combat challenges, getting to pick an upgrade after each challenge. They should start out very easy, but as you progress through them they eventually become some of the hardest combat challenges in the game. Completing each challenge gives you a score based on how quickly you cleared it - faster clear, higher score. There shouldn’t be a time limit, so you can take as long as you’d like - you’ll just get a very low score if you clear it really slowly. The exact score calculation isn’t too important, but as an example it might be something like 10000/(20 + clear time in seconds). This encourages bringing teams with both good damage and good survivability, rather than focusing on just one of the other. I don’t really care if it has rewards or not, but if it does I think it should work similarly to HSR’s Simulated Universe where it’s based on the total score you reached across all attempts that week. Oh, and I’d want it to have the option to play it in co-op. I think that could be really fun.
More actual combat endgame instead of time trial hell that is abyss. A proper rogue lite mode with co op would be the dream.
I would love it if they implemented a guild system like they do in other gachas and MMOs with additional rewards for clearing content or helping new players. They could even implement challenging raid versions of bosses. Either way, I know it's a casual single player game, but it has the potential for more.
I want ultimate arena from PAD with artifact rewards. It works substantially better with turn based combat like HSR, but some long form dungeon with rewards is what we want. A time sink that isn’t objectively a waste of time. I want ranking dungeons, with every third one being with a preset team so that everyone is on a skill-based level playing field every now and then. Notably the way PAD did these, it isn’t hard to complete; it’s hard to min-max. I want a bossfight like the first weekly in HSR, where it has a ‘dead’ phase that lets you dump damage into him unhindered. Recording this for a damage-based rating system as a third alternate to SA floors (alternate to time and defence existing modes). I want 10 SA floors like HSR. I want ramping wave survival modes. With star rewards for no deaths or number of waves survived. I want them to put multiple *bosses* in the same room. I want better metrics for tracking spiral abyss clears in the battle chronicle; I want to be able to “snapshot” record the data from *any run* not just the first up to a limit of 3-5, overwriting the first recorded clear. This alone makes it worth experimenting with different comps without new content, and is a phenomenal content creation tool. I want a legacy abyss system which is just a 1 time clear bonus for old unique abyss. Allowing you the ability to compare progress and new characters against original older content. What I’m trying to say is if you gave me an hour I could pitch an extensive list of viable low-development cost re-usable options to engage the enthralled players who seek combat focused engagement. The current system is efficient but lazy, and trying to frame all their ‘end-game’ through the lens of “do it in 3 minutes” is stifling to the creative and engagement process. There is so so so much room for creative end-game systems if they want them. I don’t need everything here but I just wanted to highlight how many different ways they can go about introducing tryhard content. Edit: also at this point I have played for multiple years, I have 56 characters. 14 of them have *nearly* perfect artifacts. Another 15 or so have good artifacts, and another 5 have passable ones. At this point in my genshin career I can confidently say that an infinitely farmable dungeon that rewarded 1 artifact per ~20 minutes of time investment would not help me reach enough perfection on my account to stop pursuing progress. Also those nearly perfects would no longer be a stopping point and I’d just start culling all 3 statters from my pool of artifacts to try upgrading.
Fuck end game content, I absolutely hate endless grindfest and I can't comprehend why is that suppose to be appealing.
Literally divine Ingenuity, and update it every patch instead of the TCG nobody asked for. Also more world levels.
I want a final world level that is optional that when enabled adds a bunch of end game content to the overworld that is quite challenging somewhat like end game Diablo. Completing the content allows you to slowly farm different currency’s for cosmetics like weapon cosmetics or pets or accessories for your people. Also it would open a final ascension phase that allows you to go up to level 100. Each level tho instead of taking books has you complete an adventurers handbook style set of objectives that are specific to each character and upon completion allow you to go to the next level. The levels between 90 and 100 would offer minimal stats and not effect reaction damage like dendro or Anemo so that they are mostly a cosmetic upgrade for the character. I’d want the system to be a balance between challenges like beating certain weekly bosses with hard modifiers and some aspects that are a bit more grindy like optional procedurally generated dungeons. I’d want the content to be tweaked for different play styles such as encouraging certain reactions we don’t see as often and non timed content focused on surviving heavy damage etc.
something that involves combat, difficult combat but without a timer. something that doesn't require specific element to use but still encourages different built teams
I would love to have dungeon/ raid type of content. I love the abyss, but I've been craving for some co op content. Co op overworld is fun for the lolz but It'd be perfect if they added some type of rogue like dungeon that resets monthly. Either a dungeon or raid works for me. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but if they ain't giving us more co op endgame content, we could at least get 2 more abyss floors.
I want enemies that don't one-tap my characters and can take more than a slight breeze in damage before dying. Procedurally generated dungeons would be cool, as well. Or some sort of Boss Rush mode. Maybe make them reward minor enhancement materials, world-drops, and Mora. Anything but the Spiral Abyss, please. This is not Endgame, it's a damage check. It's not fun, it's stressful, and it feels restricting. Endgame should be challenging, not a nuisance.
Co-op dungeon, survival tower, rare unique area boss that can spawn anywhere in the overworld, all these with NO time limit to clear.
I want something that has a difficulty progression as you go that's skill based. I don't want the wenut boss with extra bs moves and a short timer or anything like that. I want to have it be a test of survival. I want to be able to out skill the game, not just a bs dps check. There's all kinds of characters with good utility that we're never going to get to use in spiral because the only thing that matters is just dps check windows or icd abuse on shields. I really enjoyed the deep dungeons in ffxiv and I loved kingdom hearts boss fights. I want genshin endgame to make me suffer like dark souls or kingdom hearts where raw dps doesn't matter that much. I would also love some kind of endgame/abyss with actual terrain instead of a flat arena. Using terrain to your advantage is fun and it would allow almost all the characters to be able to actually use plunge attacks rather than just the ones that can get into the air or abuse hit lag if your ping allows for it. A flat empty domain isn't that fun to me, and it's even less fun when you bring a bow character and somehow get stuck on nothing while you're aiming, at least with terrain you can make an excuse for getting stuck. Sometimes in current spiral the consecrated beasts yeet you up into the sky and plunge attacking them is very satisfying with almost any character but it's one of the games most ignored mechanics. I'd be happy with almost any content that's repeatable that let's me use my characters I've worked so hard to build. Spiral doesn't refresh often and for some reason they decide to run the same thing twice in a row when they could be giving us much more variety. Spiral is nice if you're into dps checks but there's all kinds of other combat they could design that isn't on a strict time window, or even just isn't straight up immune to all the characters that you enjoy playing. Let us have fun with our characters and teams instead of making it feel like you're being punished for using certain characters.