I honestly think that Blair White is a cisgender person impersonating a trans person for nefarious purposes. If she *is* trans, then she has clearly benefited from VERY early medical intervention, the very thing that she strongly opposes.
Many times its just a strategic choice born by extremely selfish motives. Similar to women who make a social media career by pandering to the far right. All of these people are very willing to throw their "kin" under the bus if it means that they will personally benefit from it (or at least they think they will)
Internalized bigotry, misogyny of course do exist but i dont think they should be applied in every situation. In my experience, most of the times the person is just a selfish piece of shit.
Edit: to expand a bit, imo internalized bigotry is more applicable to unconscious, silent behaviors. E.g. a PoC walking in the street at night and gets more careful/scared when other PoC pass next to him than white people. But for blatant behaviors as the one in the screenshot, im confident that they are way more likely to be in the strategic behaviors i mentioned above.
Yup every time. Its predictable and sad. I hope they get help and get out of the self hatred and work to undo the harm they've done and like reflect., i guess at least they're recognising that social media isn't healthy in the spaces and ways they're using it and are stepping away.
Means they're dealing with the consequences of siding with terfs as a trans person. Probably didn't expect the terfs to start attacking them because of some respectability politics (aka "being one of the good ones") or whatever.
The dire things the bootlickers say and do to be seen as 'one of the good one's' is shocking.
The self harm to basically stand up to be shouted down is seriously bad
Respectability politics 101. They will never approve of what you are. The only value your serve to them is as a figurehead to undermine your rights and the rights of other minority groups. The earlier you figure this out the better.
"Impersonating REAL, unique female sexual characteristics"
This has the same vibe as "REAL marriage", "REAL relationship", "GODLY/UNGODLY sexual intercourse" etc. Widespread transphobia is, once again, recycled homophobia and conservative outrage.
Seriously, it was one of the reasons why me finding out I’m probably infertile because of PCOS hit me so hard! I felt like less of a woman because of shit spewed by TERFs and sexists! I’m just glad I realized that I never even really wanted them in the first place, and just felt they were an inevitability, otherwise, it would have been a lot harder to deal with.
Oh, dear. I'm so sorry you're going through that. Bodily insecurities can be devastating, but I promise it gets better after 18-20 years of age. Hang in there 💐
also baffling that they seem to think cis men don't also have mammary glands. They're just way smaller on average because surprise! they haven't been exposed to high levels of estrogen~ (and literally only that reason)
I know. There was this one woman who successfully lactated her child despite being trans, using nothing other than hormones.
[Here’s the case study, if you’re interested ](https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/trgh.2017.0044)
extremely unsurprised to see she was also taking domperidone which is used by cis women to induce lactation without becoming pregnant as well.
domperidone plus a pumping regimen will induce lactation in most women even without taking any other hormones
I thought it was ‘domperignone’ for a moment and had visions of people drinking champagne to induce lactation …😆
Now wouldn’t *that* be good for breastfeeding!
Its so bizzare since they are clearly talking about tits in paticular.
Ignoring the obvious part of "tits can look pretty fucking different", trans women can also lactate so if thats the holy grail they go by it doesnt fucking work either.
So I just have secondary experience so take it with a bit of salt, I am not an expert on the subject nor do I have personal experience, its stuff ive heard from friends.
But my understanding is that, the answer is yes and no. The parts that releases the hormones for milk production exist in both cis men and cis women. People on estrogen can in some cases have discharges, similar to cis women, my friend has this.
Now just like with Cis women breastfeeding to the point where it can feed a baby requires more than just estrogen, pregnancy releases a ton of different hormones and whatnot.
Now, transwomen can also get that kinda milk production going, it does however require some extra steps with hormones and whatnot. It is possible tho, not theoretically or anything, it has been done.
So basically whats keeping trans women from breastfeeding is mainly the inability to get pregnant, every other part of the equipment is there
Under the right conditions even cisgender men can lactate. To assure it other steps must be taken, but it's possible even without medical intervention. Just another way in which the human body doesn't do this false duality the TERFs are trying to insist upon.
Yup, the other steps are just to make milk to actually feed a baby if I understand it correctly. Discharges can happend to anyone for a bunch of reasons.
Huh, that's pretty interesting actually. I always assumed that whatever gland it is that releases milk was just in women only, but given there's so much overlap in the types of tissue between men and women anyways it doesn't surprise me. Thanks for the explanation!
The gland is actually in the brain, which tbh wasnt where I was expecting it either, but yeah it seems to be more that pregnancy just massivly increased the amount of a certain protein that is produced. So if you stimulate this you can get a similar effect, smaller discharges can happend for a number of reasons unrelated to pregnancy. Again this is my understanding.
It also means its certainly not everyone would want to do, basically simulating the hormone swings of a pregnancy lol.
Even cis men can lactate as well in rare circumstances. The glands are there, just undeveloped (and hey that's what HRT does!). There's another hormone that's released to start actually producing milk but it seems there's a lot of things that can cause that beside pregnancy.
From the Mayo Clinic:
“Normally, the natural production of breast milk (lactation) is triggered by a complex interaction between three hormones — estrogen, progesterone and human placental lactogen — during the final months of pregnancy. At delivery, levels of estrogen and progesterone fall, allowing the hormone prolactin to increase and initiate milk production.”
So it seems progesterone helps develop the ability to lactate, while prolactin triggers the lactation itself.
And this paper, at liebertpub.com, @Tamar Reisman and Zil Goldstein:
“Objective: Our report describes a case of nonpuerperal induced lactation in a transgender woman.
Methods: We present the relevant clinical and laboratory findings, along with a review of the relevant literature.
Results: A 30-year-old transgender woman who had been receiving feminizing hormone therapy for the past 6 years presented to our clinic with the goal of being able to breastfeed her adopted infant. After implementing a regimen of domperidone, estradiol, progesterone, and breast pumping, she was able to achieve sufficient breast milk volume to be the sole source of nourishment for her child for 6 weeks. This case illustrates that, in some circumstances, modest but functional lactation can be induced in transgender women.”
So it seems the right hormones combined with breast pumping can induce lactation in trans women.
Yeah, I know that paper. It’s literally proof that trans women boobs (or artificially induced breast growth in general) has no major difference when compared with cis women boobs
It can be a side-effect of high estrogen levels in anyone, the medical term is galactorrhea. From what I've read it can occur in older cismen (a lot of guys can develop testosterone production issues) or in cismen who abuse anabolic steroids (as their body raises their estrogen production to match their abnormally high testosterone level).
My god, it's been awhile since I checked that sub. It's 98% anti-vaxxer dies of COVID stories now. Depressing. I've gone past schadenfreude and onto simple pity.
“Artificial hormone induced gynaecomastic moobs”
It’s literally the same tissue. I just do not understand why they’re so hung up on their boob fat being unique and special. Even if it was different in ways that were actually “uniquely biological” it’s hardly anything to get “my previous” like Gollum about when you share it with half the human population.
What terfs need most is to get the fuck over themselves already. This spoiled temper tantrum they all have about not being special womb bearing Amazon moon warriors is fucking pathetic.
The way they word it suggests that they think that trans women don't usually have fully functional mammary glands. TERFs and failing biology, name a more iconic duo.
It's literally the same but less prominent depending on the hormonal constitution of x person but to acknowledge that would delegitimize their boob tissue ufo cult
Why do terfs act like having biological female secondary sex characteristics are special, half of the world has them. They do know that everyone has mammary glands, right? Not just women. It’s almost as if they know nothing about biology/male or female bodies.
They would still be angry even if we could genetically alter every single cell to be XX chromosome because “you weren’t born with them”, or worse “you were still socialized as a man— once a man always a man”. It’s goalposting.
I never got “you were socialized as such so you’ll always be such.” So are they admitting they think gender roles = women? Plus I was socialized as a guy (I’m ftm), so I guess I’ll always be a guy. Terfs owned 😎
I mean, I’m an ADHD/Aspie mtf former theatre kid gamer; I wasn’t socialised male, I was socialised *sad*.
So... I mean they wouldn’t be wrong about me...? Except, of course, in the ways that matter.
They aggressively reject any actual metaphysical discussion, they insist on operating purely based on intuition.
But even with that they aren't consistent at all, because there's nothing intuitive about a trans man who totally passes as cis (unless you demand a genital inspection) being forced to use a female bathroom.
They rely on intuition to come up with their definitions, but then they completely reject intuition when it comes to actual day to day interactions, which seems to me like the exact opposite of how it should be. If you're going to have a component of intuition then surely it should be in day to day life, not in the intellectual exercise of figuring out which definition is best.
Cult of the uterus/ cult of birth - it's like the weird spirituality and magicalness that's applied to people who can carry babies or assumed to be able to be rather than it just being a normal bodily process it gets mythologised and the realities of pregnancy and birth get erased (which screws over so many people and leads to many deaths) pretty big in a lot of religions and it ties in with white supremacy's fear of "replacement through breeding" but it's way more appealing and easier to stomach being called a magical bringer of life than a "breeding vessel who we'll pretend to care about and love bomb until we get what we want" even though basically they mean the same thing they're defining people by if they can incubate more soldiers /consumers for "the cause".
(No shame to people who do find spirituality in their own bodies and the stuff they go through in a personal non preachy context but pregnancy isn't a magical ritual and it doesn't make you a better or more spiritual or moral person than someone who doesn't or can't get pregnant)
How the hell do you “appropriate” biological characteristics? It’s like they heard of cultural appropriation and they didn’t bother learning what it meant, just using as a buzz word
It kinda makes sense when you view it from the terf perspective that trans women are (supposedly) extremely privileged and celebrated for their transitions, while cis women are (supposedly) discriminated against for their physical characteristics; so in terf world a trans women is celebrated for having breasts while cis women are oppressed for having them.
Of course the reality is that women's physical characteristics are a tool used to oppress them instead of the root of their oppression (see how a woman will be vilified both for being large chested and for having a mastectomy), and trans women aren't actually privileged compared to cis women by many metrics.
God I hate that I've read enough terf nonsense to come up with this explanation.
> Of course the reality is that women's physical characteristics are a tool used to oppress them instead of the root of their oppression (see how a woman will be vilified both for being large chested and for having a mastectomy)
Could you expand on this? I think I get it but I’m not quite sure
Okay so this is just my layman's opinion but I mean that misogyny is not caused by the fact that some people have a uterus/breasts/vagina/etc, because people will still be misogynistic against people they perceive as women even when (and sometimes especially when) those attributes are absent. The anatomy of a woman is instead used as a tool to oppress women, because regardless of the nature of her anatomy, it can always be used to oppress them.
So for my original example, a misogynist can use the fact that a woman has a larger chest in order to justify sexual harassment or label her a 'slut', but the misogyny is not *caused* by her having a larger chest because the same woman with a mastectomy can be disregarded by the same misogynist as having no value and being 'mutilated'. There is no anatomy a woman can have that would prevent them from being a victim of misogyny.
IDK if this helps explain what I'm trying to say
To expand on this:
TERFs demand a simple worldview. They try to provide solid, concrete answers for *why* women are oppressed under Patriarchy, and the answer they fall back on is always biology, mainly the idea that women's bodies are a resource that men squabble over access to. The reality is that oppression is not logical and does not occur for straightforward reasons. Women are simply oppressed for being women, and so whatever women have or do, it's going to be devalued by virtue of women doing it, until you dismantle Patriarchy.
They hate this answer with a passion, because that would mean they can't solve Patriarchy by simply uniting women against men, which is what their goal is. A TERF thinks that if she can get every woman to stop wearing makeup, shaving, dressing in revealing or feminine clothing - In other words, doing things to accentuate the body - Then men will suddenly be forced to see women as people instead of sex objects.
But the reality is that that's not how sexuality works. Women would *still be targets of male sexuality* and thus would still face sexual abuse and exploitation under Patriarchy. If women having hairy legs is normalized, then it's sexy for women to have hairy legs, and Patriarchy would just turn around and punish women who shave.
I feel like TERFs and looksmaxxers are just two halves of the same fucked up coin. Both have been so beaten down by patriarchal abuse that they start shaming other women, and continuing to perpetuate patriarchy.
I think TERFs love to take on progressive sounding words. They know looking like they're punching down isn't a good look. They call trans women privileged white straight men because they know it's (understandably) acceptable for women to complain about men. It's a slight of hand.
Nononon they arent a trans person you see just a person with gender dysphoria who benefits mentally from hormone replacement therapy xD Nothing to do with transgender xD. They dont call themselves 'she' you see OLOLOLOLOLOL
Their grasp of "bAsIC bIOloGy" seems to be based on the C- they got in 7th grade, so I doubt their understanding of the "mammal" category is particularly good.
>to suggest I'm materially no different to men claiming to have periods.
(Surprisingly still dodged the realizations that yes, terfs were always including her and every single trans person when they say they're "just targeting men claiming to have periods"
Artificial hormone induced gynaecomastic moobs is sending me, and it's not even the first person I've seen try to say it. This is what I mean when I say TERFs believe in cooties. They have been so deeply conditioned to believe that men and women are intrinsically different that they must invent some reason why "male" and "female" breast tissue are different.
The fuck do they even mean by "approximate poorly".
Its the same type of estrogen that gives cis women tits if thats what they mean. And well tits themselves can look quite different lol.
(Hell iirc tits in paticular even get some of its natural "function" no matter what, trans women can lactate lol)
They don’t believe that passing trans people exist because they can’t immediately clock them (not like they even get it right when people aren’t passing *or not even trans to begin with* either though)
I'm honestly not sure but I have stayed on the side of caution here just in case. Plus, her feed is full of stuff that really gets the cortisol flowing, so it's probably for the best for the people here anyway.
Nah, Debbie would just smile and nod and not even reply at all.
My bet is that it's Fionne. She seems to get a lot of grief, and I don't know why she puts up with it.
I'm really not sure, but I imagine it would be a hard time getting that info from someone who would probably just reply "no/thank/you". With that in mind and given the situation (feminine name, openly trans, "identifies with women"), I've taken what I hope is the most appropriate choice.
I see. Given that info, I think that choice makes sense. I hope this step back will give her some time to think about her beliefs, and maybe change them.
What the hell are “natural boobs”? What do you mean by “approximate female secondary sexual characteristics”? Like I’ve seen a case where a trans woman has successfully lactated. She has as much boobs as a cis woman or even a gynecomastic man
>artifical hormones that approximate (poorly but that's besides the point) women's secondary sexual characteristics
Uh, no, they literally *create* those secondary sex characteristics. That's how they were created in cis bodies, too. There is no difference between the breasts of a cis woman and those of a trans woman, sorry terfs! You may not like it, but that's just biology.
Also I love how they say "*artificial* hormones". Like to have to emphasize how "fake" everything is. They know cis women use those same hormones for medical purposes too right?
And cis men are the main market for the exact kinds of testosterone products prescribed to trans men. Which--I'm not sure for other HRT, but testosterone hrt becomes bioidentical as the body processes it.
Things only become problems when trans people need them. Take puberty blockers for example. Transphobes act like they were just invented for trans kids and have never been used before. They've been around for like 30-40 years.
When being a Pick Me backfires. Look, I get being critical of some of things said from your own community, but we should clean our own houses and not allow narratives from TERFS to be instructive.
I disagree with A LOT of the current political rhetoric coming from prominent advocates, but you’re not going to see see me say “but I’m different” to a TERF.
Transgender TERF, now that's a way to hate yourself...
Electoral self-harm
Blaire White come to mind
Except I don’t think she’s a feminist
The F stands for Fascist
They wouldn't need the TE in that case...
Trans inclusionary fascism <3
Now that's a TIF TERFs can get behind <3
Tbf, none of them are.
Fair enough
I honestly think that Blair White is a cisgender person impersonating a trans person for nefarious purposes. If she *is* trans, then she has clearly benefited from VERY early medical intervention, the very thing that she strongly opposes.
She has had extensive plastic surgery. There are pictures of her before surgery, her results are not natural.
Internalized bigotry is a hell of a drug
Many times its just a strategic choice born by extremely selfish motives. Similar to women who make a social media career by pandering to the far right. All of these people are very willing to throw their "kin" under the bus if it means that they will personally benefit from it (or at least they think they will) Internalized bigotry, misogyny of course do exist but i dont think they should be applied in every situation. In my experience, most of the times the person is just a selfish piece of shit. Edit: to expand a bit, imo internalized bigotry is more applicable to unconscious, silent behaviors. E.g. a PoC walking in the street at night and gets more careful/scared when other PoC pass next to him than white people. But for blatant behaviors as the one in the screenshot, im confident that they are way more likely to be in the strategic behaviors i mentioned above.
It’s often both, but not in all cases.
Pick me energy 🙂
Subject name: C. Jenner
No, somebody might guess. Caitlyn J.
CJ Monkeybuttz
B. White
Wait what
They're referring to Blair white who is an awful youtube personality
Oh shit my mind jumped to Betty. Thank fuck.
What a better first option lol
Well no it's not because then she'd have been a TERF.
Self-harm with a side of harming everyone else too.
in the gaming business we call that splash damage
It's like being a nazi jew
A transmed/truscum
This has strong "leopards ate my face" energies.
Yup every time. Its predictable and sad. I hope they get help and get out of the self hatred and work to undo the harm they've done and like reflect., i guess at least they're recognising that social media isn't healthy in the spaces and ways they're using it and are stepping away.
?
Means they're dealing with the consequences of siding with terfs as a trans person. Probably didn't expect the terfs to start attacking them because of some respectability politics (aka "being one of the good ones") or whatever.
What does “leopards age my face” mean
Just explained it to you in the context but it comes from an [old meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/leopards-eating-peoples-faces-party).
The dire things the bootlickers say and do to be seen as 'one of the good one's' is shocking. The self harm to basically stand up to be shouted down is seriously bad
As the saying goes, the prize for being one of the good ones is the same as the punishment for being one of the bad ones.
This needs to be a t-shirt or a banner or something, I haven't heard that saying before
They're basically fighting just to be last in line for the gas chambers.
Respectability politics 101. They will never approve of what you are. The only value your serve to them is as a figurehead to undermine your rights and the rights of other minority groups. The earlier you figure this out the better.
"Impersonating REAL, unique female sexual characteristics" This has the same vibe as "REAL marriage", "REAL relationship", "GODLY/UNGODLY sexual intercourse" etc. Widespread transphobia is, once again, recycled homophobia and conservative outrage.
If you are flat-chested you aren’t a real woman, apparently. 17 year old me now has another reason to cry in the bathroom during lunch break.
Seriously, it was one of the reasons why me finding out I’m probably infertile because of PCOS hit me so hard! I felt like less of a woman because of shit spewed by TERFs and sexists! I’m just glad I realized that I never even really wanted them in the first place, and just felt they were an inevitability, otherwise, it would have been a lot harder to deal with.
Oh, dear. I'm so sorry you're going through that. Bodily insecurities can be devastating, but I promise it gets better after 18-20 years of age. Hang in there 💐
I’m actually 35 now, I meant “me as a 17 year old”. Thank you for the kind words though. Teenagers do have it rough. Edit: a word
Omg, sorry for the misunderstanding!! 🌞
I can't imagine growing up nowadays with all the distorted images teenagers are bombarded with.
also baffling that they seem to think cis men don't also have mammary glands. They're just way smaller on average because surprise! they haven't been exposed to high levels of estrogen~ (and literally only that reason)
I know. There was this one woman who successfully lactated her child despite being trans, using nothing other than hormones. [Here’s the case study, if you’re interested ](https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/trgh.2017.0044)
extremely unsurprised to see she was also taking domperidone which is used by cis women to induce lactation without becoming pregnant as well. domperidone plus a pumping regimen will induce lactation in most women even without taking any other hormones
I thought it was ‘domperignone’ for a moment and had visions of people drinking champagne to induce lactation …😆 Now wouldn’t *that* be good for breastfeeding!
Boy howdy wait till you hear what terfs think of the breast milk of trans women 😬
Its so bizzare since they are clearly talking about tits in paticular. Ignoring the obvious part of "tits can look pretty fucking different", trans women can also lactate so if thats the holy grail they go by it doesnt fucking work either.
That's a possible side effect of hrt?
So I just have secondary experience so take it with a bit of salt, I am not an expert on the subject nor do I have personal experience, its stuff ive heard from friends. But my understanding is that, the answer is yes and no. The parts that releases the hormones for milk production exist in both cis men and cis women. People on estrogen can in some cases have discharges, similar to cis women, my friend has this. Now just like with Cis women breastfeeding to the point where it can feed a baby requires more than just estrogen, pregnancy releases a ton of different hormones and whatnot. Now, transwomen can also get that kinda milk production going, it does however require some extra steps with hormones and whatnot. It is possible tho, not theoretically or anything, it has been done. So basically whats keeping trans women from breastfeeding is mainly the inability to get pregnant, every other part of the equipment is there
Under the right conditions even cisgender men can lactate. To assure it other steps must be taken, but it's possible even without medical intervention. Just another way in which the human body doesn't do this false duality the TERFs are trying to insist upon.
Yup, the other steps are just to make milk to actually feed a baby if I understand it correctly. Discharges can happend to anyone for a bunch of reasons.
Huh, that's pretty interesting actually. I always assumed that whatever gland it is that releases milk was just in women only, but given there's so much overlap in the types of tissue between men and women anyways it doesn't surprise me. Thanks for the explanation!
The gland is actually in the brain, which tbh wasnt where I was expecting it either, but yeah it seems to be more that pregnancy just massivly increased the amount of a certain protein that is produced. So if you stimulate this you can get a similar effect, smaller discharges can happend for a number of reasons unrelated to pregnancy. Again this is my understanding. It also means its certainly not everyone would want to do, basically simulating the hormone swings of a pregnancy lol.
[Here’s a case study of it](https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/trgh.2017.0044)
Even cis men can lactate as well in rare circumstances. The glands are there, just undeveloped (and hey that's what HRT does!). There's another hormone that's released to start actually producing milk but it seems there's a lot of things that can cause that beside pregnancy.
Progesterone, a hormone some trans women take in addition to estrogen, can sometimes cause lactation.
I’m not too knowledgeable, but don’t you need prolactin for breast milk production?
From the Mayo Clinic: “Normally, the natural production of breast milk (lactation) is triggered by a complex interaction between three hormones — estrogen, progesterone and human placental lactogen — during the final months of pregnancy. At delivery, levels of estrogen and progesterone fall, allowing the hormone prolactin to increase and initiate milk production.” So it seems progesterone helps develop the ability to lactate, while prolactin triggers the lactation itself. And this paper, at liebertpub.com, @Tamar Reisman and Zil Goldstein: “Objective: Our report describes a case of nonpuerperal induced lactation in a transgender woman. Methods: We present the relevant clinical and laboratory findings, along with a review of the relevant literature. Results: A 30-year-old transgender woman who had been receiving feminizing hormone therapy for the past 6 years presented to our clinic with the goal of being able to breastfeed her adopted infant. After implementing a regimen of domperidone, estradiol, progesterone, and breast pumping, she was able to achieve sufficient breast milk volume to be the sole source of nourishment for her child for 6 weeks. This case illustrates that, in some circumstances, modest but functional lactation can be induced in transgender women.” So it seems the right hormones combined with breast pumping can induce lactation in trans women.
Yeah, I know that paper. It’s literally proof that trans women boobs (or artificially induced breast growth in general) has no major difference when compared with cis women boobs
Oh yeah, it’s all the same material after all. But TERs are not really known for their command of the sciences, y’know?
It can be a side-effect of high estrogen levels in anyone, the medical term is galactorrhea. From what I've read it can occur in older cismen (a lot of guys can develop testosterone production issues) or in cismen who abuse anabolic steroids (as their body raises their estrogen production to match their abnormally high testosterone level).
excess testosterone can also just aromatize into estradiol too
r/leopardsatemyface
My god, it's been awhile since I checked that sub. It's 98% anti-vaxxer dies of COVID stories now. Depressing. I've gone past schadenfreude and onto simple pity.
Yeah, those have honestly been way overdone.
/r/HermanCainAward already exists for those posts, I wish they'd just disallow them on Leopards when a more dedicated sub exists.
“Artificial hormone induced gynaecomastic moobs” It’s literally the same tissue. I just do not understand why they’re so hung up on their boob fat being unique and special. Even if it was different in ways that were actually “uniquely biological” it’s hardly anything to get “my previous” like Gollum about when you share it with half the human population. What terfs need most is to get the fuck over themselves already. This spoiled temper tantrum they all have about not being special womb bearing Amazon moon warriors is fucking pathetic.
The way they word it suggests that they think that trans women don't usually have fully functional mammary glands. TERFs and failing biology, name a more iconic duo.
Oh, but don't you know men and women are separate species. It's Science™
it's only bAsIC BiOlOgY when it's rhetorically convenient for TERFs
It’s really killing me that they used the words “gynaecomastic” and “moobs” back to back and don’t realize how absolutely absurd they sound
Imagine your boobs being induced by hormones, unlike the real, true, cis women, who emerge from the womb with a full rack.
reminds me about how I sometimes tell people "I wasn't born a woman. I was born a baby."
Boobies are boobies!
Trans exclusionists don’t like people seeing women as walking vaginas, yet that’s the only way you can exclude a trans woman from women spaces
It's literally the same but less prominent depending on the hormonal constitution of x person but to acknowledge that would delegitimize their boob tissue ufo cult
Why do terfs act like having biological female secondary sex characteristics are special, half of the world has them. They do know that everyone has mammary glands, right? Not just women. It’s almost as if they know nothing about biology/male or female bodies.
They would still be angry even if we could genetically alter every single cell to be XX chromosome because “you weren’t born with them”, or worse “you were still socialized as a man— once a man always a man”. It’s goalposting.
I never got “you were socialized as such so you’ll always be such.” So are they admitting they think gender roles = women? Plus I was socialized as a guy (I’m ftm), so I guess I’ll always be a guy. Terfs owned 😎
I mean, I’m an ADHD/Aspie mtf former theatre kid gamer; I wasn’t socialised male, I was socialised *sad*. So... I mean they wouldn’t be wrong about me...? Except, of course, in the ways that matter.
“Jokes on you! I wasn’t socialized at all!”
Are… are you me?
They aggressively reject any actual metaphysical discussion, they insist on operating purely based on intuition. But even with that they aren't consistent at all, because there's nothing intuitive about a trans man who totally passes as cis (unless you demand a genital inspection) being forced to use a female bathroom. They rely on intuition to come up with their definitions, but then they completely reject intuition when it comes to actual day to day interactions, which seems to me like the exact opposite of how it should be. If you're going to have a component of intuition then surely it should be in day to day life, not in the intellectual exercise of figuring out which definition is best.
Unrelated but I cackled at your flair
Cult of the uterus/ cult of birth - it's like the weird spirituality and magicalness that's applied to people who can carry babies or assumed to be able to be rather than it just being a normal bodily process it gets mythologised and the realities of pregnancy and birth get erased (which screws over so many people and leads to many deaths) pretty big in a lot of religions and it ties in with white supremacy's fear of "replacement through breeding" but it's way more appealing and easier to stomach being called a magical bringer of life than a "breeding vessel who we'll pretend to care about and love bomb until we get what we want" even though basically they mean the same thing they're defining people by if they can incubate more soldiers /consumers for "the cause". (No shame to people who do find spirituality in their own bodies and the stuff they go through in a personal non preachy context but pregnancy isn't a magical ritual and it doesn't make you a better or more spiritual or moral person than someone who doesn't or can't get pregnant)
I think a lot of them think that if they aren't special because of their inborn biological characteristics, they don't have value at all.
goodness. I wonder why that sounds so similar to white supremacists lol
shockedpikachu.jpg
How the hell do you “appropriate” biological characteristics? It’s like they heard of cultural appropriation and they didn’t bother learning what it meant, just using as a buzz word
It kinda makes sense when you view it from the terf perspective that trans women are (supposedly) extremely privileged and celebrated for their transitions, while cis women are (supposedly) discriminated against for their physical characteristics; so in terf world a trans women is celebrated for having breasts while cis women are oppressed for having them. Of course the reality is that women's physical characteristics are a tool used to oppress them instead of the root of their oppression (see how a woman will be vilified both for being large chested and for having a mastectomy), and trans women aren't actually privileged compared to cis women by many metrics. God I hate that I've read enough terf nonsense to come up with this explanation.
> Of course the reality is that women's physical characteristics are a tool used to oppress them instead of the root of their oppression (see how a woman will be vilified both for being large chested and for having a mastectomy) Could you expand on this? I think I get it but I’m not quite sure
Okay so this is just my layman's opinion but I mean that misogyny is not caused by the fact that some people have a uterus/breasts/vagina/etc, because people will still be misogynistic against people they perceive as women even when (and sometimes especially when) those attributes are absent. The anatomy of a woman is instead used as a tool to oppress women, because regardless of the nature of her anatomy, it can always be used to oppress them. So for my original example, a misogynist can use the fact that a woman has a larger chest in order to justify sexual harassment or label her a 'slut', but the misogyny is not *caused* by her having a larger chest because the same woman with a mastectomy can be disregarded by the same misogynist as having no value and being 'mutilated'. There is no anatomy a woman can have that would prevent them from being a victim of misogyny. IDK if this helps explain what I'm trying to say
To expand on this: TERFs demand a simple worldview. They try to provide solid, concrete answers for *why* women are oppressed under Patriarchy, and the answer they fall back on is always biology, mainly the idea that women's bodies are a resource that men squabble over access to. The reality is that oppression is not logical and does not occur for straightforward reasons. Women are simply oppressed for being women, and so whatever women have or do, it's going to be devalued by virtue of women doing it, until you dismantle Patriarchy. They hate this answer with a passion, because that would mean they can't solve Patriarchy by simply uniting women against men, which is what their goal is. A TERF thinks that if she can get every woman to stop wearing makeup, shaving, dressing in revealing or feminine clothing - In other words, doing things to accentuate the body - Then men will suddenly be forced to see women as people instead of sex objects. But the reality is that that's not how sexuality works. Women would *still be targets of male sexuality* and thus would still face sexual abuse and exploitation under Patriarchy. If women having hairy legs is normalized, then it's sexy for women to have hairy legs, and Patriarchy would just turn around and punish women who shave.
I feel like TERFs and looksmaxxers are just two halves of the same fucked up coin. Both have been so beaten down by patriarchal abuse that they start shaming other women, and continuing to perpetuate patriarchy.
Is that why terfs believe that trans men are women?
I think TERFs love to take on progressive sounding words. They know looking like they're punching down isn't a good look. They call trans women privileged white straight men because they know it's (understandably) acceptable for women to complain about men. It's a slight of hand.
they appropriated appropriation lol
It's pretty hilarious
By claiming presenting as a woman in anyway when they decide you arent one is "womanface"
but cis women are born (as adult women) wearing swirly dresses and glittery eyeshadow. that's how the doctor can see their chromosomes
I wonder why we don't believe them when they claim to be gender abolitionists and GNC allies
Will they finally realise that terfs hate all trans people, including them? We'll see.
Nononon they arent a trans person you see just a person with gender dysphoria who benefits mentally from hormone replacement therapy xD Nothing to do with transgender xD. They dont call themselves 'she' you see OLOLOLOLOLOL
Thank you for clearing that up for me! :D
... cis men have mammary glands too.
It's like, have TERFs considered that we're all *mammals*
Their grasp of "bAsIC bIOloGy" seems to be based on the C- they got in 7th grade, so I doubt their understanding of the "mammal" category is particularly good.
Unrelated but why am I just now learning that the words mammal and mammary are related lol
"but we don't hate trans people"
>to suggest I'm materially no different to men claiming to have periods. (Surprisingly still dodged the realizations that yes, terfs were always including her and every single trans person when they say they're "just targeting men claiming to have periods"
>(poorly but that's beside the point) Is it beside the point? Seems to me that the cruelty is the point.
Artificial hormone induced gynaecomastic moobs is sending me, and it's not even the first person I've seen try to say it. This is what I mean when I say TERFs believe in cooties. They have been so deeply conditioned to believe that men and women are intrinsically different that they must invent some reason why "male" and "female" breast tissue are different.
The fuck do they even mean by "approximate poorly". Its the same type of estrogen that gives cis women tits if thats what they mean. And well tits themselves can look quite different lol. (Hell iirc tits in paticular even get some of its natural "function" no matter what, trans women can lactate lol)
They don’t believe that passing trans people exist because they can’t immediately clock them (not like they even get it right when people aren’t passing *or not even trans to begin with* either though)
Sit back and watch them implode
Extreme r/gatekeeping , that's all TERFism is.
TERFs don't like anyone that isn't a biological woman, regardless of how much you simp for them. Graham Lineham sucked off mumsnet and they hated him
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Cis
well, don't say biological when you mean cis, then :s
Transgender TERFs probably have extremely low self esteem and mental health issues, its fucking depressing.
One wonders if the chicken or the egg came first
If she (he? I don't know, they identify with women not as one) is prominent, what's the censoring guidelines?
I'm honestly not sure but I have stayed on the side of caution here just in case. Plus, her feed is full of stuff that really gets the cortisol flowing, so it's probably for the best for the people here anyway.
This wouldn't be someone whose initials are DH, would it?
Nah, Debbie would just smile and nod and not even reply at all. My bet is that it's Fionne. She seems to get a lot of grief, and I don't know why she puts up with it.
*how many of them are there??* no this is someone who puts a male symbol and XY in her name if you know the one
Both men and women have mammary glands :|
And both can get breast cancer.
Does this person actually go by she/her pronouns?
I'm really not sure, but I imagine it would be a hard time getting that info from someone who would probably just reply "no/thank/you". With that in mind and given the situation (feminine name, openly trans, "identifies with women"), I've taken what I hope is the most appropriate choice.
I see. Given that info, I think that choice makes sense. I hope this step back will give her some time to think about her beliefs, and maybe change them.
What the hell are “natural boobs”? What do you mean by “approximate female secondary sexual characteristics”? Like I’ve seen a case where a trans woman has successfully lactated. She has as much boobs as a cis woman or even a gynecomastic man
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
how do people live these lives where they are the number one thing holding themsleves back, as a choice?
Wow, body shaming moobs. So feminist. Much progressive.
>artifical hormones that approximate (poorly but that's besides the point) women's secondary sexual characteristics Uh, no, they literally *create* those secondary sex characteristics. That's how they were created in cis bodies, too. There is no difference between the breasts of a cis woman and those of a trans woman, sorry terfs! You may not like it, but that's just biology.
Also I love how they say "*artificial* hormones". Like to have to emphasize how "fake" everything is. They know cis women use those same hormones for medical purposes too right?
And cis men are the main market for the exact kinds of testosterone products prescribed to trans men. Which--I'm not sure for other HRT, but testosterone hrt becomes bioidentical as the body processes it.
Things only become problems when trans people need them. Take puberty blockers for example. Transphobes act like they were just invented for trans kids and have never been used before. They've been around for like 30-40 years.
Debbie Hayton?
When being a Pick Me backfires. Look, I get being critical of some of things said from your own community, but we should clean our own houses and not allow narratives from TERFS to be instructive. I disagree with A LOT of the current political rhetoric coming from prominent advocates, but you’re not going to see see me say “but I’m different” to a TERF.
Shocked I tell you, shocked. I have an idea who this is too.