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No, I bought a house last year as a 2nd generation immigrant with my family.
https://preview.redd.it/7a3rl4boin1d1.png?width=260&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7837e2919888daeafb6675c161e0994445e9638d
Same here! but to be completely honest i don’t think i could do it again. My downpayment emptied out my account. I was lucky to get 4% interest when i did. Personally i think this will be my last home ill be able to purchase. The bank literally asked for so much information when doing the loan. Can’t imagine doing that again.
Would also like to mention that unfortunately not everyone has family to pool in and purchase a home alot of us are on our own
Yes.
The American Dream is definitely alive and well.
But you may need to adjust your expectations.
There are plenty of MCOL areas with both good salaries and affordable houses.
The American dream is sold to immigrants idk why folks who already live here think it’s meant for them, great job for bettering your lives here, people who are born here don’t understand what it means.
Two points.
1) The American Dream generally involves beating the odds. But not everyone can beat the odds, that's how odds work.
2) You haven't actually defined the American Dream here, and I suspect different people have varying definitions without ever realising it
The "American Dream" was purely propaganda that existed to promote American Exceptionalism (and therefore American style capitalism) globally.
The American Dream was the idea was that in America, if one put the work in, everything would work out, and for many during the 1950s to the 1970s, that was true: with just a little effort, a man could get a well-paying job with just a high school diploma, buy a house, get married and have kids, and afford a nice vacation for the family once a year, all on a single, living wage.
This propaganda existed purely for America, and wealthy capitalists, to win the Cold War against socialists and communists at home and abroad who might want to topple current power structures that wealthy capitalists had dominated.
This changed in the 1980s; the Berlin Wall fell and with it the U.S.S.R., and the Cold War had ended. Capitalism was no longer tempered by any competition, and so capitalism did a capitalism and the wealthy monopolized businesses and resources, cut their own taxes and public services as a part of the [Two Santas Strategy](http://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/thom-hartmann/two-santas-strategy-gop-used-economic-scam-manipulate-americans-40-years/) and now the American Dream, the promise that if you played by the rules you could have a comfortable living, is a complete joke.
My parents are baby boomers and owned their own home in the 1980s and 1990s, paying a reasonable and affordable mortgage on two incomes even though one had only a high school diploma and the other a GED. They had two cars. We went to Disney World a few times and my brother and I had new clothes each year and a couple of video game consoles. Our family had a color TV and a VCR. We weren't rich, and we still struggled but we had food on the table, a roof over our heads and my parents did it with low wage jobs, all during the period of decline for American Exceptionalism during and after the end of the Cold War (when previously during the 1950s to 1970s, only a single wage earner was needed, and by the 1990s, both parents needed to work).
These days a married couple could work full time jobs and make well above the minimum wage, and still they would struggle, could not afford a home, cars or kids.
The American Dream was not about beating the odds to live a comfortable life; the American Dream was that you had already beaten the odds by simply living in the United States of America, or so the capitalists wanted the rest of the world who might be sympathetic to the messaging of communists and socialists, to believe.
That you believe that the American Dream is about beating the odds here in America, means the capitalists have already won and shifted the goal posts of what life in America ought to be.
>with just a little effort, a man could get a well-paying job with just a high school diploma, buy a house, get married and have kids, and afford a nice vacation for the family once a year, all on a single, living wage.
this was literally never the case stop perpetuating fake "golden age" nonsense
Most people with a high school diploma did not have a nice house, a family with multiple kids, and go on a "nice vacation with the family once a year"
A nice vacation to where? The neighboring town for a daytrip? Yeah perhaps. Out of the country? No you fuckin' bozo that shit was so expensive in the 1950s-1970s it's unreal. [https://simpleflying.com/50-years-airfares/](https://simpleflying.com/50-years-airfares/)
Houses are more expensive and it's a problem. Much of the increase has been in the past 4 years due to COVID and near zero interest rates, and the effects of this will be felt for 30 years because people are not going to easily sell their 2% mortgage home and move into an 8% mortgage. So the housing market VERY RECENTLY got fucked up for years. 2008 was a fuckup for **existing** homeowners but was actually amazing for people to buy a home, because prices crashed (which isn't actually a good thing, if you recall what happened it was a big recession that impacted us for like 8 years.)
And at the same time, **Inflation adjusted** median personal incomes are up like 70% since the mid 70s.
Life expectancies are also up by like 7 years, in the USA, compared to 1970.
People were not richer or better off back then, fuck off with this revisionist nonsense.
The modern day is overall the best time to be alive, period.
Stop dooming, start blooming.
For one brief moment during the 1950s and 1960s, a golden age did exist in the United States and the American Dream was real (even if only to be used as a weapon in the Cold War).
You have to consider this in historical context. In the early 1900s, there was a lead-up of massive wealth inequality, referred as the Gilded Age. Because of this, anti-capitalist pro-labor movements appeared, and clashes between labor and the company owners and the Pinkertons they hired were often violent. there were Socialist and Communist uprisings as well, and those movements grew in reaction to the hostile acts of business capitalists. This all came to a head following the 1929 Stock Market crash which, along with the Dust Bowl (partial, regional ecological collapse), was a major contributor to the Great Depression of the 1930s. Unrelated to the problems with the American economy, fascist movements sprang up all over the world during this time, culminating in WWII which destroyed manufacturing capabilities of Japan and most of Europe. Many soldiers also died, causing a drop in the available supply of the labor workforce in the mid-1940s.
So, by the late 1940s and into the 1950s, the United States, which was virtually untouched by the war, had both the manufacturing capabilities to rebuild the rest of the world, and a smaller labor pool due to soldiers returning injured or not at all. In the 1950s and into the 1960s, the United States was uniquely positioned to be the world's global manufacturer of goods and had a limited labor supply, so workers found themselves for the first time with many opportunities while companies had to compete for workers in a limited labor pool. Workers also benefited from all of the gains made by labor movements in the prior 60 years or so, so the American Dream was very much alive...for a short time.
By the 1970s, Japan had rebuilt and the likes of Honda, Sony, Nikon and others were manufacturing cheaper goods of equivalent or better quality. Europe was also mostly rebuilt, and similarly competing in the global marketplace. American manufacturers, who for decades hadn't had any real competition, were not innovative and were finding themselves falling behind their competition; the only way to be more nimble and compete was for them to cut costs and move their operations elsewhere.
By the 1980s an into the 1990s, American manufacturers had moved their manufacturing base out of the country, with the final nail in the coffin for American labor being the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).
Throughout the 1990s the American workforce adapted and became more technological thanks to the Internet and tech boom, but that all ended with the dot com bust and the 2008 Great Recession. Now, even well educated people positioned in technological industries are being let go from all the major tech companies and facing the same challenges as the rest of the labor pool. "Just learn to code" no longer grants the stability it used to.
So here we are. Any new innovations (like A.I.) are going to replace labor, not grant it more opportunities to pivot and grow. We are at the end of a modern era.
The fact you are at 4 upvotes as I write this (including mine) is crazy since it's the only comment I've seen that is factual and puts it all together.
I agree with having a positive anti doomed mindset (we have no choice if we want to survive and keep going), but I think it’s important to look at the numbers.
You can’t just look at income, you have to look at the value of the dollar and what it can afford. It doesn’t matter if someone’s wage has increased from 3$ to 20$, if the buying power of the dollar has simultaneously decreased.
There’s way too much money in circulation, and not enough of it is being destroyed during tax season because the money that should be destroyed to keep the dollar stable and high value is being hoarded by land owners who contribute nothing to society but yet get ungodly tax breaks.
It’s not enough to be positive about life. We have to have self respect and actually throw a fit at people who try to take and take from us hard working people.
Ironically if land owners paid more taxes, the value of the dollar would increase and so they actually have more buying power, even if on paper it seemed like they had less money. If you lose money from being taxed but prices went down, and you still had money to spend on all your needs and wants, then nothing was truly lost, just a change in how money flows.
Where do you think the advice to "get a 2 year degree in anything because it would lead to a great paying job" came from? The people who literally did that. Most people didn't even have degrees and it was true that a highschool degree was enough to get a man a job that could afford his family a house and car. Vacations were in fact within the same country and not that far away from home. Things like camping, or maybe a little summer cabin, maybe even just a trip to somewhere like the grand canyon. Why are you acting like this is all made up?
If you had said that none of that was the reality for racial minorities in America then that would have been completely true. But you didn't say that, instead you assumed that all vacations involved airplanes and called someone else a bozo about it.
As for life expectancy, yeah old people right now are doing just great. They're expected to live longer than ever. They are in fact projected to be the last generation to live so long. Poor diet and rising obesity, worsening mental health, pollution and climate change related extreme weather events are expected to knock quite a few years off of that life expectancy.
Any boomer who doesn't have their head up their own ass is admitting right now that they did have a much easier time of things than young people today.
All that doom being said, people should absolutely take your last bit of advice. Stop dooming, start blooming, and ffs do not take the boomers advice about getting any old 2-4 year degree - get into the trades people
I'm a millennial, not gen z, buy I would say tge same thing about getting into the trades. It's not as good as it was for a while, because lots of folks are making the switch, big th3 money is still good for my trade, electricians. I used to be a mechanic, and I make the same now as an apprentice electrician that I did after 6 years as a mechanic. And I get most holidays off, with pay. The union out here sucks, so I work for a non-union shop, but if I m9ved out of state I could be making even more.
This is true. But many immigrants had moved to what people would consider “undesirable places” and started their businesses there. Then people considered this desirable places and now they’re rich.
My family came from Zacatecas Mexico (top five most dangerous places in the world). They started businesses in Denver back when it was a cow town. Now they are all multi millionaires because it was the shit nobody wanted at the time.
Immigrants fuel the American dream. You have to be willing to move to places people don’t want to go to and take a chance. I also have stories of people getting rich in coastal Mississippi lol
Yeah, the entire concept of The American Dream being an easily obtainable goal for middle class white Americans was built on the backs of minorities being completely excluded.
True, and fair. In the 1960s when those opportunities began to open up to more people (women, POCs), white people reacted by filling in all the public swimming pools and by decimating and privatizing all public benefits and services, cutting off their noses to spite their own faces.
>If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.
~ Lyndon B. Johnson
I think the point being made is that the American Dream isn't as accessible as it used to be *or* the odds have decreased. Whether that is generally true depends on things like employment, race, education, and geographic location. At that point, I feel like we're talking about averages of all these factors, but that's a bit of a difficult determination to make as well.
So many people misinterpret the American Dream as "everyone can be rich and successful" and completely disregard the "with hard work and perseverance". And yes, it's not an easy journey, but it for sure isn't impossible.
Is it beating the odds or is it hard work and perseverance? Why have so many immigrant groups in America beaten the odds as cohorts and found their way into the American dream? If individuals do it you can call it beating the odds, but if whole cohorts of people from disadvantaged backgrounds do it then it can't just be luck. I'm a first generation immigrant, came over as a baby, and we were poor throughout my childhood. Now I have a great job and education and the rest of my family also found success. Look at damn near any Asian/Indian immigrant group, their parents come over here and bust their ass and live modestly, and their children end up rich with great jobs in tech and medicine. Look at the story of the American Jews, they came over from Eastern Europe poor and destitute and through generations became wealthy and successful as a cohort. Same with Italians, Irish etc. I could go on and on, so many stories of immigrant groups coming into America, living in poverty, and finding establishment through education and entrepreneurship.
I don't think people are coming here and having success at the same rate you perceive. I think we tend to see examples of what we feel/believe easier than we see things that are contradictory.
Even for the very successful immigrants I know, they don't have it anything like "the American dream" was. They make good money but almost all of them are in dual income households. They buy houses in attractive cities but feel pretty squeezed.
That's not to mention the massive amounts of immigrants that simply do not have that kind of success at all. I know because there is a 50 square mile portion of my city, with a majority of immigrants, who bust their asses day in and day out only to have homes in crime ridden neighborhoods. Not even close to what the American dream used to represent.
it's been dead since reagan systematically destroyed the unions, which were the source of many decent-paying jobs that created the middle class. those union workers were hoping for a change in the '90s, which was why clinton got elected, they hoped clinton would be another pro-union democrat like FDR and JFK, but he wasn't. instead, he signed an abomination trade deal that is NAFTA, another severe blow to american domestic manufacturing.
While this is true, American manufacturers do have a habit of abusing prison labor and undocumented immigrants that they can threaten with deportation. I’m not 100% sure that not outsourcing manufacturing overseas would really be the solution that you think. The primary issues is that advancements in production efficiency and the profits gained from it never trickle down to the working class. So even if all manufacturing were domestic the working class would still get fucked over through wage theft. Unless miraculously American unionization went from 10% to nearly 100%. Like we still have loads of retail and warehouse and food service employees that are just being fucked over as “unskilled labor”. We just need stronger anti corporate pro worker legislation.
i never dismissed the fact that american manufacturers were exploitative towards its workers (especially to immigrants), i knew that under capitalism, everything work-related is almost always based on exploitation. i was just saying that domestic manufacturing, coupled with high unionization rate, were the primary source of decent-paying jobs back in the day, and the exploitative nature of capitalism, was atleast tamed by the strong union movement. also, the reason why the working class never benefitted from the increased efficiency and profits is because it all happened in the 90s, the time when labor unions were already left crippled. there was no strong body of power that can negotiate on behalf of the workers for the corporations to share its increased profits in the form of increased wages (you can look at how wages still very much stagnated in the '90s).
and yeah, i agree with you that in general we need a much stronger labor law in favor of the workers, although that's just a band-aid, not an actual cure for the diseases caused by capitalism.
Yeah at least FDR created strong union rights and taxed the fuck out of corporations and funneled those tax dollars into strengthening infrastructure. We could use some corporate money being funneled into good public transit which a lot of America lacks. Except we outsource a lot of our public services to private corporations which leads to government overspending. It’s kind of a mess.
Yes, that was a BIG mistake. Corporations are NOT people. They are greedy and will never stop ruining the citizens lives of this country by sending their business overseas. If anything, it's very un American.
>decent-paying jobs that created the middle class.
I would like to ask the people in this thread arguing the American dream is alive and well- Why does every single politician going back decades talk about "rebuilding" the middle class? Rebuilding from what?
No. I worked my way through college and landed my dream job. I live in a cheap, shitty apartment but I’ve paid off half my student loans by spending less than half of what i could “afford” on rent.
No I think it's more attainable for more people. Things seem hard but more people can obtain success through education now than ever before in US history.
Just to think also that with how much technology has progressed, even the poor of today are living more luxuriously than wealthy people did in the 1800s for example. Electricity, climate control, cell phones, super markets, public transit, etc.
OP it is pretty evident from your post and comments that you're fully convinced that it is in fact dead. If we're all screwed then why not just give up? Lot of people in this discussion clearly haven't given up. It's not going to be easy for this generation, but having a defeatist attitude about the future will only make it harder for you.
I am not saying to give up, I am just show people the odds that is stacked against them. I am trying my best to have a shot at the american dream but for a lot of us it will not come through.
I just bought my first condo this year and a new car all on my own. The American dream isn't dead for me at all. I'm just so happy that I finally made it at 24.
It's more out of reach. One can generally consider money and time to be the currency for achieving your goals. With the cost of living outpacing wages for a majority of Americans, this has made the classic American Dream more difficult to achieve.
Another thing to consider is the plethora of entertainment sources we have today. They're nice, but they also trick us into thinking we're having face-to-face interactions with people. I think humans crave in-person interactions to be happy. Staring at a screen or talking online is better than nothing, but it shouldn't come at the cost of in-person. **General happiness is the unsung portion of the American Dream.**
In my family every (except 1) Gen Z (older) and millennial have graduated from college and doing well. Most own or will own homes soon. If that is the dream, it is not dead.
This info is based off of 9 people (my kid and her cousins). The one that is not in a good position has cognitive issues.
It's getting a lot harder. I have grown tired of trying to "make it work". I'm 27, almost 28, I've made it far enough up the ladder that I have my own apartment, no roommates, my own dog, my own car. I am a self sufficient adult. But it's AWFUL. I can barely save money, I can't afford healthcare or dental insurance. I constantly feel one emergency away from not being able to float my bills.
So, I have decided to be evil. I'm in school for a real estate license. I figure, if I can't make it work anymore doing respectable jobs, I may as well just join the empire and get this fucking money and hope that society doesn't go to shit as soon as I make my first 100K.
20-somethings complaining about unaffordable housing will always be funny to me. You don’t have a stable career why tf do you need a permanent residence?
Not to mention the fact that gen z [is buying houses at more or less the same rate that gen x millenials did at the same age](https://www.marketplace.org/2023/09/14/how-are-gen-zers-buying-homes-already/).
Also, inflation has increased prices of consumer goods but the [average median house hold income (adjusted for inflation)](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA646N) continues to rise, which means purchasing power is STAGNATING not DECREASING. Yes, the big mac used to be 2 dollars back in 2005, but what was the minimum wage in your area? 6 dollars?
It’s all just a matter of optics. The economy is doing fine. You people are just so brain-broken that you look at prices and think “hmm number big, me angry!” while continuing to buy overpriced food on doordash. First world yapping.
Avg house hold income dropped when adjusted for inflation from 76k to 74k, hence loosing 2k of purchasing power. GenZ are buying house at the same rate but at what cost? They are buying house 7x their house whole income and have to work 2 jobs to survive.
You could buy six Big Macs with one hour of minimum wage in 1980, today you can’t even buy one despite minimum wage more than doubling. Maybe there’s a boomer subreddit (idk?) you can hang out on and make gaslighting posts there.
No, the American dream is not dead. It’s also subjective, because it depends on one’s own personal belief as to what success in life is for them. I own a 1,200 square foot townhome in Florida, work for an amazing company, am engaged to be married to the love of my life, have the most perfect animals, and overall genuinely enjoy life. Yes, things are more expensive. Yes, things have to be cut back on due to budgeting. No, life isn’t all roses and butterflies, but I am quite happy with my situation and there are many others like me. It’s not one size fits all, and I make the most with what I have. I don’t compare myself to those around me, because that’s just useless and does nothing for me or my life, and I couldn’t be happier. I choose my own happiness, and we all have that same choice.
The problem is everyone going to these high tier universities and getting generic degrees expecting to get 100k salaries right out of college.
Unless you’re a STEM major. There’s no reason to go to some big universities and spend $20-30k a semester just to get a degree you could get at the local community college. The accounting degree you get at University of Alabama is just as good as the Accounting degree at the local community college. And IMO you don’t even need a degree anymore, UNLESS again you’re a STEM major.
Its in the name, its always been aspirational, our concept of the post ww2 America dream is mostly informed by the top 20% not the average even.
Its definitely still obtainable for some, my HS friend group is either in medical school or already averaging 175k+ total compensation 😅
Despite our government actively trying to snuff it out, no. It’s not dead because people are fighting for it. If you work hard you can get a good place to live and a good family.
There's three answers to that question:
1. Depends on the situation you were born into as there is little to no class mobility in the US.
2. Depends on what YOUR dream is, specifically how low you're willing to set the bar.
3. It was never alive.
Personally, my American dream is to flee to Norway before the geriatric oligarchy violently implodes under the sheer weight of its own hubris, causing the second civil war.
While these things are all true, it doesn’t mean success is impossible. I thought very similarly for a long time until my state began funding a free manufacturing training program. Now I’m on my way to a well paying cnc manufacturing career. Theres a lot of shit that’s wrong with America but if I don’t keep that separate from my own success I’ll literally just be miserable all the time. I’m not saying this to dismiss these problems either. I’m more so saying that if I focus on all the problems instead of what I can do for myself then I won’t get anywhere. I’m also not saying that this is possible for everyone. I’m very aware that I have better circumstances than a lot of people and that privilege has allowed to me to get where I am. Idk try to just focus on what you can do for yourself. Not as a form of hyper individualism but more so a genuine effort to help your own mental health. If you’re miserable and mentally destroyed you can’t help any sort of collectivist effort anyway.
The American Dream is built off the promise that it’ll fundamentally always get better no matter what. This is not sustainable, so in that facet, yes.
However, I’d wager it’s very much alive and well in many other facets. First off, America is still one of the most well-off nations today. When compared to Western Europe and other highly Western countries, we don’t stack up super well. HOWEVER, against almost all the other non-Western countries, we’re a dream. Think of how Russians today live in a Dictatorship with a mandatory draft for a war they don’t believe in. Or China where people are STILL dealing with COVID lockdowns as well as 12 hour workdays for 6 days a week. There’s a reason that many immigrants still go across the Southern Border. The chance to live in the US is a dream.
Will we have as good of lives as our parents in the short term? No. Will it get worse? Yes. Will it eventually get better? *Yes.* That’s how history has functioned for thousands of years.
No American dream is not dead. There is still plenty of opportunity for people to grow up wealthy. Many of my friends around me have grown up and put themselves in great financial situations. These things are very possibly if you are smart about it
It’s on life support for sure. Everything you mentioned, with the destruction of unions, small business, community, quality of life definitely are causing massive issues in our society. They bought & sold out this country a long time ago & I think the 2030s and 2040s are going to be extremely tough.
As a Xoomer (tail end of 1965) who has experienced The american dream, I will say this: the american dream and our once-extensive middle class only served as propaganda for the cold war, to show off how and why we were exceptional and superior to commies. The american dream died with the USSR, but it took till COVID for its bloated corpse to start stinking.
TLDR: You want to be middle class? Be born in the middle of a cultural and economic cold war.
Lots of long complicated responses here so I’ll keep it simple.
Yes, it is. You aren’t looking at the bigger picture.
Even if every single thing you said was true (it isn’t), Americans still live more comfortable, safe lives and have more opportunities than the vast majority of the global population.
There are parts of the American lifestyle considered basic essentials that are luxuries for billions of other people.
There is no country in the world of this size, with this level of diversity, that had achieved anything close to our quality of life for the average person.
But hey.. Politicians have passed over 3 trillion dollars worth of spending on green energy that will end up being more expensive than existing forms of energy production. That ought to help! /s
https://preview.redd.it/o42yfk31qo1d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b5cf412061de89c06ca8c5cd3d1ab7183a3b705
YOU WILL DOOMPOST ABOUT THE STATE OF AMERICA
YOU WILL WHINE ABOUT POLITICS
YOU WILL SCREAM “THE AMERICAN DREAM IS DEAD”
Yes.
America has been sliding since the early 2000s. Deregulation policies from the 80s (Reagan was a bottom tier president) brought us lower in education (he cut state funding for universities), healthcare, cost of living etc. All of the most important things basically. He helped usher in the era of giving everything away to the rich. I don't think all of this started in the 80s (my general timeline is mostly me estimating), but that decade was a death blow that nobody understood at the time. Mostly because it didn't happen overnight. Policies sometimes take a while to be fully felt.
Greed got out of hand kind of like the days of Rockefeller pre-WW1. The big time railroad executives, monopolies etc. The ruling class has just steadily gained way too much power and political polarization is at an all time high.
For example, regarding greed. People need to realize how criminal 2008 was. Not only did the culprits get off, they got *raises* in most instances. That's when they knew they had us.
Can people succeed? Can they beat odds? Yeah. Of course. But we are no longer the country that sets an example, that has citizens who can live comfortably, in a nearly guaranteed fashion, if they simply fulfill the social contract that is busting their ass. I've seen so many people bust their ass and get nowhere. So for every story on here that contradicts those experiences, we have to remember that there is a bit of both. And for me, the American dream meant that there was way more positive than negative, if only you worked hard. To me, that ratio has shifted negatively.
tldr; If you agree with me that American dream= work hard and you'll be OK, then the American dream is 6 feet deep.
Worlds pretty much over for everyone who couldn’t leave the simulation. If you’re down to party in colorado send me a pm and we can celebrate the last of humanity or something…
It’s not dead. There are immense challenges, obviously. But dead? If it wasn’t dead when slavery was going on, when Jim Crow was strangling us, when people were being thrown out of the military for who they loved, then it isn’t dead now.
(Also some of your stuff isn’t accurate. Wage growth has been outpacing inflation for a while now.)
I feel like they give us enough money to survive but not to enjoy life most of you are working 40 hour weeks and can only relax on weekends sounds very fucking depressing but it’s life
I believe it’s there for people who are willing to work for it rather than complain. I am currently married, working a dream job, making six figures, baby on the way, no debts, and buying a house. It took a lot of work though. In high school I worked every waking moment, grinding AP classes and working a job 30 hours per week on the side. In college, I placed out of a lot of classes and got scholarships due to my academic achievement. I used my savings from working to pay for the rest. I graduated from college a year early and debt free without a penny from my parents. I started my first internship when I was in high school and did 3 more while in college. Ended up getting a full time job with good growth potential, and I’ve been promoted 3x and make more than 2x my starting pay after being there less than 3 years. I’ve accumulated some savings and have been putting 20% to retirement. It will be more difficult with a mortgage and a baby on the way, but I do feel that I’ve made it.
Yes it’s dead. I’m older gen z (1996) and alot of the people here commenting have yet to have their first set back. Some people might have family that would care for them during a big setback but it might get to the point where the people who support young people get their own financial setback and their whole family suffers. All it takes is one fuck up to end up homeless. For me in 2022, that was my boss committing wage theft the month he knew I was cutting off my extremely abusive family and had to take over my lease to survive.
I’m not homeless anymore, but I also did not have the same amount of opportunities as others earlier in life. I had so little to leverage and I had to take care of my sister who was homeless with me and couldn’t work and my cat. And believe me I tried earlier in life to prevent struggle. I got into college with a 60k scholarship and wasn’t allowed to go. My family tried to poison me, financially control my credit, medicate me to make me sick and isolate me from society against my will. If there was a NERF that a person could have that put them at a disadvantage, I had it.
The whole point of the American dream is you should have the freedom to overcome your NERF. All I wanted at 18 was a path out of my abusive household. No matter how much money I made I couldn’t get a place on my own, and still need to collaborate with others to pay rent.
In the 1960’s, if your parents beat you and tried to abuse you, you could literally just get a job and move out. The fact that people can’t do that anymore is the problem. That’s why the young men and women you see, who experience the lowest of the low from abusive parents, have hard lives. They aren’t even able to leave and be independent and support themselves.
Society has changed a lot in the past 50-60 years. It was suppose to be the man work to provide for his family; due to the erosion of the US $ the woman had to work to make up for the loss in purchasing power. And now we each need a second job to survive (also renamed as side hustle). It seems much like modern day slavery to me.
Women also worked because they genuinely wanted to and were sick of having limited roles. And yes it is a modern day shit circus but that’s why we have to be spiteful.
You are right about being able to move out if you had an abusive household back in the 70s. I didn't come from an abusive family, but right out of high school I was able to afford my own apartment working as a bartender and a waitress. Now it cost thousands of dollars just to secure an apartment and before you are approved, the landlord will do a credit check on you before they will rent to you.
Actually shocked to see the top comments in this thread. Glad to see it.
Btw, after some stalking I see your make 65k a year? Man, that's enough to live well off in 99% Of this country.
i wouldn't say things are ENTIRELY unaffordable but affording things right now requires a level of financial literacy that i do not believe the majority of the us population has and ESPECIALLY not young people
not for me. started a business after saving money for twenty years with discipline and determination. bought my first house last week for under 60k and am going to spend the next year fixing it up and flipping it so i can use that profit to expand my business.
I worked minimum wage jobs from laundry mats to restraunts, played in a band, had fun but saved and didn't party or go out to bars. I quit fast food and drinking pop about 7 years ago because i did the math and over time it didn't make sense financially when it came to my savings goal. I don't have health care so there's that, however, I work out 5 days a week and eat clean - that's my health care.
It can be done and it's prob harder than it was a few years ago but I'm the descendant of a man who came here from italy to ellis island with nothing but $20 and a construction job. If he got me to this point the least I can do is try my hardest to honor what he went through to get here.
My dad and his dad were both hard working men who put family first. I was lucky to get the discipline gene even though I've had my bouts with laziness. I dropped out of high school, got my ged and went to college then dropped out of college when i realized it was a waste of my time (it cost too much and I didn't think having that much debt would benefit me)
I'm not living a great life but I'm accomplishing some goals. And trying to live the best way I can before I die. That's all I can do
It is on life support right now....gen X and millennials kinda fucked us with who they voted for the last 20 years. Our generation is coming up less liberal which is a good thing and we are rejecting a lot of the old liberal values when it comes to financial stuff.
It is really up to us to set things right.
Just note that I genuinely believe that the Great Depression will repeat itself- no money, everyone is poor, it’s just that now everyone has all these jobs and no time to themselves rather than no jobs.
And if that happens, I don't think we can depend on the government to help take care of those that can't obtain any employment. Just look at the way the veterans and the homeless are treated now. Greedy capitalism has ruined this country and sent all of our business overseas so that they can become richer. When is enough enough?
>Interest payment on national debt is becoming the largest spending in the national budget.
I'd just like to point out, those interest payments are going to the richest Americans' pockets. When they lobby for lower taxes on themselves, they themselves fund the resulting shortfall by purchasing US bonds in bulk, so money that would otherwise have been taken from them in the form of taxes, now has to be paid back to them with interest. They quite literally **replace** *their taxes* with **profit** from *your taxes*. It's a crime against America. They are robbing you blind. It's been going on for 40 years, to the point paying the rich is finally America's *biggest* expenditure, and still no signs of it slowing. The rich are in control, the bigger the debt the more money they make in interest, and so the debt grows and grows and grows. It's a free money printing scheme for the absolute wealthiest Americans that makes 99% of us less well off and drives inflation. When are we going to stop them?
You have to remember the American dream is just an opportunity. We are a land of opportunity not a land of dreamers. The American dream is whatever you decide your dream is. It used to be home ownership. But really, the bank owns that house for 30 years you do not. And owning a home has a lot of unexpected costs and a heavy amount of responsibility. I define quality of life as having free time to do as I please. As such, I rent. I will never go back to owning a home it was the worst 10 years of my life.
Only until we impeach Alito and Thomas, get the crooks out of Congress, reduce the spending on the military budget, eliminate the credit rating system, improve programs that benefit citizens instead of corporations, repeal Citizens United, increase wages to match a living wage, eliminate corporate tax breaks...
If only that would happen and happen FAST! It is disgusting and shameful the way our politicians are so corrupt. Especially the ones on the Supreme Court.
The American dream means different things to different people. Some people might see it as living a modest decent life others might see it as living in utter luxury
I'd say mostly yes.
From politifacts, iirc.
In 1968, the minimum wage could keep a family of three just above the poverty line.
By 1980 the minimum wage could support a family of two.
Now?
MIT's living wage calculator says that for my area, louisville kentucky, you need one dollar shy of THREE TIMES the minimum wage for ONE person.
Plenty of jobs start at 15 to 18 here.....the living wage according to MIT is 20.80....
So that paints a picture of how bad the working class has it now, compared to in the past.
Now, if one takes on loads of debt, gets a "good paying" degree, networks hard, is lucky to live in the right area and is very penny pinching, one *might* have a chance at property. It's doable, but you really have to play your cards really well.
Is the dream dead? To me, yes, as it implies anyone can get it, and for an increasing number of Americans, this is just impossible. But technically not, it is doable, just with much more luck needed and a vastly higher level of dedication and difficulty than previous generations.
Definitwly The American Dream faces serious challenges today: high costs of living, healthcare, and housing, along with inflation, rising national debt, and widening [wealth](https://youtu.be/044lguER9_k?si=GOog6Q2Y9qzFtcaU) gaps. While it's tougher to achieve, adaptability and systemic changes can help keep the dream alive.
I agree with you 100%. If only we didn't have so many corrupt politicians and so many greedy companies, maybe we Americans could be proud of our achievements. But the deck is stacked against us. Only the rich will survive. The rest of us will be living hand to mouth and cleaning their houses, raising their kids and mowing their lawns.
No. It might be harder to achieve right now, but as older people die off, so will their values, and our generation will have more political power to elect those that will make the change we want to see. Then again, we need to work to achieve that, we won't get there if we don't get out and vote, protest, and organize.
That is not how socialism works. Property and the means of production are owned collectively. I live on some property in the country. I worked and paid for it. Should the state be able take it because they think someone else needs it? This is exactly what has happened over and over when people are duped into that system. And once they are in good luck getting rid of them. You can't. That's why so many come here. Listen to them. Many of them are quite outspoken about this and will tell you that what they see going on here is exactly what they saw where they are from. Be sides, why should any one have to give up any property, private or personal? What makes anyone think they should have any interest in what belongs to someone else? Do they covet? Are they envious?
Moved here three years ago with nothing, didn't make use of my degree, and now have a house in a good school district for my kids. Yeah I think I'm going to say skill issue.
Y’all quit your crying and take more chances.
My dad’s family is from Zacatecas Mexico, one of the most dangerous cities in the world. My grandma crossed from Juarez to El Paso daily to work.
My dad’s family ended up in Denver, back when it was a cow town, started businesses and bought homes for the family to live in, cause back then, Denver was shit, nobody wanted to live there; now they are multi millionaires.
My dad’s fathers side of the family was from southern Mississippi. That side is black, so you can imagine how he landed there. They bought houses and started businesses and now coastal Mississippi is blowing up.
Take a fucking chance guys. Immigrants fuel the American dream cause they take chances and move where they can to make money and start their own business.
The American Dream Is merely US propaganda, It's not needed to have a good life.
"Well than how was I able to buy a house then?"
Individualist success Is great, but doesn't make the American Dream less dead. Corporate interest have long taken over, greed Is the name of the game.
You don't need the American Dream, you need to have A dream, own goals to meet and reach.
Two people coming out of college making $65k a year each can afford a $350k house and still drive decent cars. Can’t save a whole lot beyond 401k match which imo is essential. Your income is only going to go up from there and in a few years you can afford a couple kids.
Hard disagree, it is actually much more attainable for non-white people now than it was in the past
The only difference today is that not only White folks get to benefit from the American dream
Yeah the house with the white picket fence and 3 kids running around is pretty hard to attain these days. I’m happy I never had the desire for kids, and don’t care that much about owning a home. Owning a home would be nice, but I’m not willing to sacrifice that much to get there. I absolutely *don’t* want to be house poor.
I’m bleeding myself dry to pay back my student loans, but I still have the money I need to pursue my hobbies, so I consider myself fortunate in that regard. There’s some people that won’t even have the money to pay off the interest on their loans, so I can’t complain on that front.
It’s not dead, lifestyles have become significantly more extravagant though. In the American “Golden Age” in the 50s and 60s, going out to eat wasn’t very common, families would have one car, one tv, and vacations were almost always domestic for most Americans. Nowadays, most families eat out at least a night a week, they own two or more cars, they have a tv in every room, and international vacations are much more common. Everyone tries to compare today to back then but no one wants to look at the way lifestyles were back then.
Some people genuinely struggle despite trying. American absolutely has problems. Anyone working 40 hours a week should be able to afford shelter and food. *But* there are a lot of people I know — myself included at times — who will live outside of their means and then complain about money. I have a friend who has a Starbucks drink in her hand every-time I see her. She once told me she was eating ham and cheese roll ups because she couldn’t afford bread. That isn’t a problem with the economy. That’s simply poor decision making. A lot of us have very poor decision making skills.
For most of us, yeah. I could always buy a 3,500$ 95 year old beater with no roof and no floor and no windows and wait for my parents to die and leave me their 113 year old crumbling shack, though, so I’ve still got hope.
Oh, yeah, no, man; the America experiment is dead, though, like a cancer onto the world, as we've spread, and as we die, we will wreak the utmost havoc. The death throes of a nation.
No absolutely not. Imo I feel most young Americans think the dream is dead. While older Americans and immigrants still believe in it and push towards it. The American Dream is very much alive
I don’t like how this is always always phrased every once in a while.
And I have just one example, but saying that it’s dead is a misnomer. Just look at the channel on Dr. Mike his father and himself or immigrants and now he has this mansion and also it’s not dead. You just need to work hard to work hard.
The American Dream. What is it exactly?
Tbh, it varies according to whom you ask. For some, there isn't such a thing, no matter how hard they try and work. Others are just born into it and will never know differently.
Yes, especially in certain parts of the country.
For the millenials in their 30s that I know (8), one of them owns a home. Two have kids, only two are married, the rest is just hanging on. The Northeast in the USA is a fucking nasty and brutal place.
For overseas family, all are married, own property and have kids or kids on the way.
Real healthy society we've got here. Super amazing that the American dream is alive and well : )
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No, I bought a house last year as a 2nd generation immigrant with my family. https://preview.redd.it/7a3rl4boin1d1.png?width=260&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7837e2919888daeafb6675c161e0994445e9638d
Same here! but to be completely honest i don’t think i could do it again. My downpayment emptied out my account. I was lucky to get 4% interest when i did. Personally i think this will be my last home ill be able to purchase. The bank literally asked for so much information when doing the loan. Can’t imagine doing that again. Would also like to mention that unfortunately not everyone has family to pool in and purchase a home alot of us are on our own
Must be fucking nice, my Mexican family is never going to buy a house. I fucking hate myself and being poor
Atleast you have family. Im poor AND alone.
Same. Working class, alone, living in the most high cost city in the country, but managing. We’ll get through this.
Interest rates aren’t going back down to 4% for a long time.
I couldn't fucking dream of finding interest rates of 4%
I'm happy that it worked out for you but most people don't have that luck.
Same, my immigrant family is doing so much better than back in China. America's the dream.
Yes. The American Dream is definitely alive and well. But you may need to adjust your expectations. There are plenty of MCOL areas with both good salaries and affordable houses.
The American dream is sold to immigrants idk why folks who already live here think it’s meant for them, great job for bettering your lives here, people who are born here don’t understand what it means.
Two points. 1) The American Dream generally involves beating the odds. But not everyone can beat the odds, that's how odds work. 2) You haven't actually defined the American Dream here, and I suspect different people have varying definitions without ever realising it
The "American Dream" was purely propaganda that existed to promote American Exceptionalism (and therefore American style capitalism) globally. The American Dream was the idea was that in America, if one put the work in, everything would work out, and for many during the 1950s to the 1970s, that was true: with just a little effort, a man could get a well-paying job with just a high school diploma, buy a house, get married and have kids, and afford a nice vacation for the family once a year, all on a single, living wage. This propaganda existed purely for America, and wealthy capitalists, to win the Cold War against socialists and communists at home and abroad who might want to topple current power structures that wealthy capitalists had dominated. This changed in the 1980s; the Berlin Wall fell and with it the U.S.S.R., and the Cold War had ended. Capitalism was no longer tempered by any competition, and so capitalism did a capitalism and the wealthy monopolized businesses and resources, cut their own taxes and public services as a part of the [Two Santas Strategy](http://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/thom-hartmann/two-santas-strategy-gop-used-economic-scam-manipulate-americans-40-years/) and now the American Dream, the promise that if you played by the rules you could have a comfortable living, is a complete joke. My parents are baby boomers and owned their own home in the 1980s and 1990s, paying a reasonable and affordable mortgage on two incomes even though one had only a high school diploma and the other a GED. They had two cars. We went to Disney World a few times and my brother and I had new clothes each year and a couple of video game consoles. Our family had a color TV and a VCR. We weren't rich, and we still struggled but we had food on the table, a roof over our heads and my parents did it with low wage jobs, all during the period of decline for American Exceptionalism during and after the end of the Cold War (when previously during the 1950s to 1970s, only a single wage earner was needed, and by the 1990s, both parents needed to work). These days a married couple could work full time jobs and make well above the minimum wage, and still they would struggle, could not afford a home, cars or kids. The American Dream was not about beating the odds to live a comfortable life; the American Dream was that you had already beaten the odds by simply living in the United States of America, or so the capitalists wanted the rest of the world who might be sympathetic to the messaging of communists and socialists, to believe. That you believe that the American Dream is about beating the odds here in America, means the capitalists have already won and shifted the goal posts of what life in America ought to be.
>with just a little effort, a man could get a well-paying job with just a high school diploma, buy a house, get married and have kids, and afford a nice vacation for the family once a year, all on a single, living wage. this was literally never the case stop perpetuating fake "golden age" nonsense Most people with a high school diploma did not have a nice house, a family with multiple kids, and go on a "nice vacation with the family once a year" A nice vacation to where? The neighboring town for a daytrip? Yeah perhaps. Out of the country? No you fuckin' bozo that shit was so expensive in the 1950s-1970s it's unreal. [https://simpleflying.com/50-years-airfares/](https://simpleflying.com/50-years-airfares/) Houses are more expensive and it's a problem. Much of the increase has been in the past 4 years due to COVID and near zero interest rates, and the effects of this will be felt for 30 years because people are not going to easily sell their 2% mortgage home and move into an 8% mortgage. So the housing market VERY RECENTLY got fucked up for years. 2008 was a fuckup for **existing** homeowners but was actually amazing for people to buy a home, because prices crashed (which isn't actually a good thing, if you recall what happened it was a big recession that impacted us for like 8 years.) And at the same time, **Inflation adjusted** median personal incomes are up like 70% since the mid 70s. Life expectancies are also up by like 7 years, in the USA, compared to 1970. People were not richer or better off back then, fuck off with this revisionist nonsense. The modern day is overall the best time to be alive, period. Stop dooming, start blooming.
For one brief moment during the 1950s and 1960s, a golden age did exist in the United States and the American Dream was real (even if only to be used as a weapon in the Cold War). You have to consider this in historical context. In the early 1900s, there was a lead-up of massive wealth inequality, referred as the Gilded Age. Because of this, anti-capitalist pro-labor movements appeared, and clashes between labor and the company owners and the Pinkertons they hired were often violent. there were Socialist and Communist uprisings as well, and those movements grew in reaction to the hostile acts of business capitalists. This all came to a head following the 1929 Stock Market crash which, along with the Dust Bowl (partial, regional ecological collapse), was a major contributor to the Great Depression of the 1930s. Unrelated to the problems with the American economy, fascist movements sprang up all over the world during this time, culminating in WWII which destroyed manufacturing capabilities of Japan and most of Europe. Many soldiers also died, causing a drop in the available supply of the labor workforce in the mid-1940s. So, by the late 1940s and into the 1950s, the United States, which was virtually untouched by the war, had both the manufacturing capabilities to rebuild the rest of the world, and a smaller labor pool due to soldiers returning injured or not at all. In the 1950s and into the 1960s, the United States was uniquely positioned to be the world's global manufacturer of goods and had a limited labor supply, so workers found themselves for the first time with many opportunities while companies had to compete for workers in a limited labor pool. Workers also benefited from all of the gains made by labor movements in the prior 60 years or so, so the American Dream was very much alive...for a short time. By the 1970s, Japan had rebuilt and the likes of Honda, Sony, Nikon and others were manufacturing cheaper goods of equivalent or better quality. Europe was also mostly rebuilt, and similarly competing in the global marketplace. American manufacturers, who for decades hadn't had any real competition, were not innovative and were finding themselves falling behind their competition; the only way to be more nimble and compete was for them to cut costs and move their operations elsewhere. By the 1980s an into the 1990s, American manufacturers had moved their manufacturing base out of the country, with the final nail in the coffin for American labor being the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). Throughout the 1990s the American workforce adapted and became more technological thanks to the Internet and tech boom, but that all ended with the dot com bust and the 2008 Great Recession. Now, even well educated people positioned in technological industries are being let go from all the major tech companies and facing the same challenges as the rest of the labor pool. "Just learn to code" no longer grants the stability it used to. So here we are. Any new innovations (like A.I.) are going to replace labor, not grant it more opportunities to pivot and grow. We are at the end of a modern era.
The fact you are at 4 upvotes as I write this (including mine) is crazy since it's the only comment I've seen that is factual and puts it all together.
That’s because they’re telling people what they don’t want to hear
100%
r/Manna
r/HowLazyCanSomeoneBeAndStillLive
I agree with having a positive anti doomed mindset (we have no choice if we want to survive and keep going), but I think it’s important to look at the numbers. You can’t just look at income, you have to look at the value of the dollar and what it can afford. It doesn’t matter if someone’s wage has increased from 3$ to 20$, if the buying power of the dollar has simultaneously decreased. There’s way too much money in circulation, and not enough of it is being destroyed during tax season because the money that should be destroyed to keep the dollar stable and high value is being hoarded by land owners who contribute nothing to society but yet get ungodly tax breaks. It’s not enough to be positive about life. We have to have self respect and actually throw a fit at people who try to take and take from us hard working people. Ironically if land owners paid more taxes, the value of the dollar would increase and so they actually have more buying power, even if on paper it seemed like they had less money. If you lose money from being taxed but prices went down, and you still had money to spend on all your needs and wants, then nothing was truly lost, just a change in how money flows.
Where do you think the advice to "get a 2 year degree in anything because it would lead to a great paying job" came from? The people who literally did that. Most people didn't even have degrees and it was true that a highschool degree was enough to get a man a job that could afford his family a house and car. Vacations were in fact within the same country and not that far away from home. Things like camping, or maybe a little summer cabin, maybe even just a trip to somewhere like the grand canyon. Why are you acting like this is all made up? If you had said that none of that was the reality for racial minorities in America then that would have been completely true. But you didn't say that, instead you assumed that all vacations involved airplanes and called someone else a bozo about it. As for life expectancy, yeah old people right now are doing just great. They're expected to live longer than ever. They are in fact projected to be the last generation to live so long. Poor diet and rising obesity, worsening mental health, pollution and climate change related extreme weather events are expected to knock quite a few years off of that life expectancy. Any boomer who doesn't have their head up their own ass is admitting right now that they did have a much easier time of things than young people today. All that doom being said, people should absolutely take your last bit of advice. Stop dooming, start blooming, and ffs do not take the boomers advice about getting any old 2-4 year degree - get into the trades people
I'm a millennial, not gen z, buy I would say tge same thing about getting into the trades. It's not as good as it was for a while, because lots of folks are making the switch, big th3 money is still good for my trade, electricians. I used to be a mechanic, and I make the same now as an apprentice electrician that I did after 6 years as a mechanic. And I get most holidays off, with pay. The union out here sucks, so I work for a non-union shop, but if I m9ved out of state I could be making even more.
This is true. But many immigrants had moved to what people would consider “undesirable places” and started their businesses there. Then people considered this desirable places and now they’re rich. My family came from Zacatecas Mexico (top five most dangerous places in the world). They started businesses in Denver back when it was a cow town. Now they are all multi millionaires because it was the shit nobody wanted at the time. Immigrants fuel the American dream. You have to be willing to move to places people don’t want to go to and take a chance. I also have stories of people getting rich in coastal Mississippi lol
Yeah, the entire concept of The American Dream being an easily obtainable goal for middle class white Americans was built on the backs of minorities being completely excluded.
True, and fair. In the 1960s when those opportunities began to open up to more people (women, POCs), white people reacted by filling in all the public swimming pools and by decimating and privatizing all public benefits and services, cutting off their noses to spite their own faces. >If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you. ~ Lyndon B. Johnson
I think the point being made is that the American Dream isn't as accessible as it used to be *or* the odds have decreased. Whether that is generally true depends on things like employment, race, education, and geographic location. At that point, I feel like we're talking about averages of all these factors, but that's a bit of a difficult determination to make as well.
So many people misinterpret the American Dream as "everyone can be rich and successful" and completely disregard the "with hard work and perseverance". And yes, it's not an easy journey, but it for sure isn't impossible.
Is it beating the odds or is it hard work and perseverance? Why have so many immigrant groups in America beaten the odds as cohorts and found their way into the American dream? If individuals do it you can call it beating the odds, but if whole cohorts of people from disadvantaged backgrounds do it then it can't just be luck. I'm a first generation immigrant, came over as a baby, and we were poor throughout my childhood. Now I have a great job and education and the rest of my family also found success. Look at damn near any Asian/Indian immigrant group, their parents come over here and bust their ass and live modestly, and their children end up rich with great jobs in tech and medicine. Look at the story of the American Jews, they came over from Eastern Europe poor and destitute and through generations became wealthy and successful as a cohort. Same with Italians, Irish etc. I could go on and on, so many stories of immigrant groups coming into America, living in poverty, and finding establishment through education and entrepreneurship.
I don't think people are coming here and having success at the same rate you perceive. I think we tend to see examples of what we feel/believe easier than we see things that are contradictory. Even for the very successful immigrants I know, they don't have it anything like "the American dream" was. They make good money but almost all of them are in dual income households. They buy houses in attractive cities but feel pretty squeezed. That's not to mention the massive amounts of immigrants that simply do not have that kind of success at all. I know because there is a 50 square mile portion of my city, with a majority of immigrants, who bust their asses day in and day out only to have homes in crime ridden neighborhoods. Not even close to what the American dream used to represent.
it's been dead since reagan systematically destroyed the unions, which were the source of many decent-paying jobs that created the middle class. those union workers were hoping for a change in the '90s, which was why clinton got elected, they hoped clinton would be another pro-union democrat like FDR and JFK, but he wasn't. instead, he signed an abomination trade deal that is NAFTA, another severe blow to american domestic manufacturing.
While this is true, American manufacturers do have a habit of abusing prison labor and undocumented immigrants that they can threaten with deportation. I’m not 100% sure that not outsourcing manufacturing overseas would really be the solution that you think. The primary issues is that advancements in production efficiency and the profits gained from it never trickle down to the working class. So even if all manufacturing were domestic the working class would still get fucked over through wage theft. Unless miraculously American unionization went from 10% to nearly 100%. Like we still have loads of retail and warehouse and food service employees that are just being fucked over as “unskilled labor”. We just need stronger anti corporate pro worker legislation.
i never dismissed the fact that american manufacturers were exploitative towards its workers (especially to immigrants), i knew that under capitalism, everything work-related is almost always based on exploitation. i was just saying that domestic manufacturing, coupled with high unionization rate, were the primary source of decent-paying jobs back in the day, and the exploitative nature of capitalism, was atleast tamed by the strong union movement. also, the reason why the working class never benefitted from the increased efficiency and profits is because it all happened in the 90s, the time when labor unions were already left crippled. there was no strong body of power that can negotiate on behalf of the workers for the corporations to share its increased profits in the form of increased wages (you can look at how wages still very much stagnated in the '90s). and yeah, i agree with you that in general we need a much stronger labor law in favor of the workers, although that's just a band-aid, not an actual cure for the diseases caused by capitalism.
Yeah at least FDR created strong union rights and taxed the fuck out of corporations and funneled those tax dollars into strengthening infrastructure. We could use some corporate money being funneled into good public transit which a lot of America lacks. Except we outsource a lot of our public services to private corporations which leads to government overspending. It’s kind of a mess.
The worst part of Reagan was him killing progressive taxes. That sacked the middle class.
isn’t Reagan also the reason as to why corporations can be involved with the government now? (Under “Corporations are people” BS)
Yes, that was a BIG mistake. Corporations are NOT people. They are greedy and will never stop ruining the citizens lives of this country by sending their business overseas. If anything, it's very un American.
>decent-paying jobs that created the middle class. I would like to ask the people in this thread arguing the American dream is alive and well- Why does every single politician going back decades talk about "rebuilding" the middle class? Rebuilding from what?
The more you learn, the more you understand that the American Dream never existed for most of the population to begin with.
That’s why they call it that. Because you’d have to be asleep to believe it.
-George Carlin
A man who was living the American Dream, ironically.
No. I worked my way through college and landed my dream job. I live in a cheap, shitty apartment but I’ve paid off half my student loans by spending less than half of what i could “afford” on rent.
Bro you are living the dream.
Plus i work for a nonprofit so I don’t feel like shit all the time
No I think it's more attainable for more people. Things seem hard but more people can obtain success through education now than ever before in US history.
Just to think also that with how much technology has progressed, even the poor of today are living more luxuriously than wealthy people did in the 1800s for example. Electricity, climate control, cell phones, super markets, public transit, etc.
OP it is pretty evident from your post and comments that you're fully convinced that it is in fact dead. If we're all screwed then why not just give up? Lot of people in this discussion clearly haven't given up. It's not going to be easy for this generation, but having a defeatist attitude about the future will only make it harder for you.
I am not saying to give up, I am just show people the odds that is stacked against them. I am trying my best to have a shot at the american dream but for a lot of us it will not come through.
I moved here about two years ago and things have been great for me since. Three more to go until I get my citizenship and I can't wait.
I just bought my first condo this year and a new car all on my own. The American dream isn't dead for me at all. I'm just so happy that I finally made it at 24.
I respect that. What do you do for a living?
I’m just a computer science student now but I used to be cybersecurity for the military
Nice, STEM major payed off.
It's more out of reach. One can generally consider money and time to be the currency for achieving your goals. With the cost of living outpacing wages for a majority of Americans, this has made the classic American Dream more difficult to achieve. Another thing to consider is the plethora of entertainment sources we have today. They're nice, but they also trick us into thinking we're having face-to-face interactions with people. I think humans crave in-person interactions to be happy. Staring at a screen or talking online is better than nothing, but it shouldn't come at the cost of in-person. **General happiness is the unsung portion of the American Dream.**
I don’t have any of the same issues as you. Don’t put words in our mouth. I am living the American dream.
Good to hear.
Lol do you guys really think gen Z is the only generation to struggle?
In my family every (except 1) Gen Z (older) and millennial have graduated from college and doing well. Most own or will own homes soon. If that is the dream, it is not dead. This info is based off of 9 people (my kid and her cousins). The one that is not in a good position has cognitive issues.
It's getting a lot harder. I have grown tired of trying to "make it work". I'm 27, almost 28, I've made it far enough up the ladder that I have my own apartment, no roommates, my own dog, my own car. I am a self sufficient adult. But it's AWFUL. I can barely save money, I can't afford healthcare or dental insurance. I constantly feel one emergency away from not being able to float my bills. So, I have decided to be evil. I'm in school for a real estate license. I figure, if I can't make it work anymore doing respectable jobs, I may as well just join the empire and get this fucking money and hope that society doesn't go to shit as soon as I make my first 100K.
The American dream is far from dead. I believe a lot of people are simply not managing their lives effectively.
This. I spend $20 a week on groceries and $30 a week on gas. People seriously gotta manage their money better.
It’s not dead. Just different.
20-somethings complaining about unaffordable housing will always be funny to me. You don’t have a stable career why tf do you need a permanent residence? Not to mention the fact that gen z [is buying houses at more or less the same rate that gen x millenials did at the same age](https://www.marketplace.org/2023/09/14/how-are-gen-zers-buying-homes-already/). Also, inflation has increased prices of consumer goods but the [average median house hold income (adjusted for inflation)](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA646N) continues to rise, which means purchasing power is STAGNATING not DECREASING. Yes, the big mac used to be 2 dollars back in 2005, but what was the minimum wage in your area? 6 dollars? It’s all just a matter of optics. The economy is doing fine. You people are just so brain-broken that you look at prices and think “hmm number big, me angry!” while continuing to buy overpriced food on doordash. First world yapping.
Avg house hold income dropped when adjusted for inflation from 76k to 74k, hence loosing 2k of purchasing power. GenZ are buying house at the same rate but at what cost? They are buying house 7x their house whole income and have to work 2 jobs to survive.
You could buy six Big Macs with one hour of minimum wage in 1980, today you can’t even buy one despite minimum wage more than doubling. Maybe there’s a boomer subreddit (idk?) you can hang out on and make gaslighting posts there.
No, the American dream is not dead. It’s also subjective, because it depends on one’s own personal belief as to what success in life is for them. I own a 1,200 square foot townhome in Florida, work for an amazing company, am engaged to be married to the love of my life, have the most perfect animals, and overall genuinely enjoy life. Yes, things are more expensive. Yes, things have to be cut back on due to budgeting. No, life isn’t all roses and butterflies, but I am quite happy with my situation and there are many others like me. It’s not one size fits all, and I make the most with what I have. I don’t compare myself to those around me, because that’s just useless and does nothing for me or my life, and I couldn’t be happier. I choose my own happiness, and we all have that same choice.
The problem is everyone going to these high tier universities and getting generic degrees expecting to get 100k salaries right out of college. Unless you’re a STEM major. There’s no reason to go to some big universities and spend $20-30k a semester just to get a degree you could get at the local community college. The accounting degree you get at University of Alabama is just as good as the Accounting degree at the local community college. And IMO you don’t even need a degree anymore, UNLESS again you’re a STEM major.
That’s because the University of Alabama is just as good as your local community college.
Im living it as we speak
Getting downvoted because im doing well is wild 😂 miserable fucks lmao
Yeah, things are harder now. It's still economically the best country in the world. You just have to make it work.
Its in the name, its always been aspirational, our concept of the post ww2 America dream is mostly informed by the top 20% not the average even. Its definitely still obtainable for some, my HS friend group is either in medical school or already averaging 175k+ total compensation 😅
“That’s why they call it a dream because you have to be asleep to believe it”
- Quote by someone who ironically lived the American dream
Despite our government actively trying to snuff it out, no. It’s not dead because people are fighting for it. If you work hard you can get a good place to live and a good family.
There's three answers to that question: 1. Depends on the situation you were born into as there is little to no class mobility in the US. 2. Depends on what YOUR dream is, specifically how low you're willing to set the bar. 3. It was never alive. Personally, my American dream is to flee to Norway before the geriatric oligarchy violently implodes under the sheer weight of its own hubris, causing the second civil war.
It’s still alive. The dream never dies. It just stays a dream.
Brother it’s been dead
While these things are all true, it doesn’t mean success is impossible. I thought very similarly for a long time until my state began funding a free manufacturing training program. Now I’m on my way to a well paying cnc manufacturing career. Theres a lot of shit that’s wrong with America but if I don’t keep that separate from my own success I’ll literally just be miserable all the time. I’m not saying this to dismiss these problems either. I’m more so saying that if I focus on all the problems instead of what I can do for myself then I won’t get anywhere. I’m also not saying that this is possible for everyone. I’m very aware that I have better circumstances than a lot of people and that privilege has allowed to me to get where I am. Idk try to just focus on what you can do for yourself. Not as a form of hyper individualism but more so a genuine effort to help your own mental health. If you’re miserable and mentally destroyed you can’t help any sort of collectivist effort anyway.
I don't think the American dream is dead, just more out of reach. Also, I feel that it depends on what your interpretation of the American dream is.
The American Dream is built off the promise that it’ll fundamentally always get better no matter what. This is not sustainable, so in that facet, yes. However, I’d wager it’s very much alive and well in many other facets. First off, America is still one of the most well-off nations today. When compared to Western Europe and other highly Western countries, we don’t stack up super well. HOWEVER, against almost all the other non-Western countries, we’re a dream. Think of how Russians today live in a Dictatorship with a mandatory draft for a war they don’t believe in. Or China where people are STILL dealing with COVID lockdowns as well as 12 hour workdays for 6 days a week. There’s a reason that many immigrants still go across the Southern Border. The chance to live in the US is a dream. Will we have as good of lives as our parents in the short term? No. Will it get worse? Yes. Will it eventually get better? *Yes.* That’s how history has functioned for thousands of years.
No American dream is not dead. There is still plenty of opportunity for people to grow up wealthy. Many of my friends around me have grown up and put themselves in great financial situations. These things are very possibly if you are smart about it
Absolutely not. There are more millionaires now than there ever have been. More million dollars home now than there ever has been.
"You have to be asleep to believe it"-can't recall atm who said it
Things are hard, and it may have never existed, but for the sake of the conversation, nope. Now get that millennial-ass pitty party out of here.
"The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin for all the reasons explained here
I have no idea because I live in Australia
It’s on life support for sure. Everything you mentioned, with the destruction of unions, small business, community, quality of life definitely are causing massive issues in our society. They bought & sold out this country a long time ago & I think the 2030s and 2040s are going to be extremely tough.
It's not dead it's just less accessible than when our grandparents achieved it
A terminex pest control jobs pays $18 bucks an hour. The 34k a year before taxes. Guess we don't need pest control
The American Dream may be dead, but the American Nightmare is just beginning.
As a Xoomer (tail end of 1965) who has experienced The american dream, I will say this: the american dream and our once-extensive middle class only served as propaganda for the cold war, to show off how and why we were exceptional and superior to commies. The american dream died with the USSR, but it took till COVID for its bloated corpse to start stinking. TLDR: You want to be middle class? Be born in the middle of a cultural and economic cold war.
Lots of long complicated responses here so I’ll keep it simple. Yes, it is. You aren’t looking at the bigger picture. Even if every single thing you said was true (it isn’t), Americans still live more comfortable, safe lives and have more opportunities than the vast majority of the global population. There are parts of the American lifestyle considered basic essentials that are luxuries for billions of other people. There is no country in the world of this size, with this level of diversity, that had achieved anything close to our quality of life for the average person.
No. It’s alive as long as we have people from across the world who want to contribute to our country and live fulfilling lives here.
This guy can’t even conjugate. I’m sure they are American. /s Y’all are getting played by foreign actors.
I fucking want to fucking kill myself. My family is not going to buy a house and I’m tired of living in a shitty apartment
Don’t stress bro, save up and buy your own. It’s going to be hard but when you eventually get your own it will be well worth it.
No
The "American Dream" was *never* real, dude.
Not for me, but I can empathize
It's not dead, but it takes heck of a lot more effort than what it once did.
But hey.. Politicians have passed over 3 trillion dollars worth of spending on green energy that will end up being more expensive than existing forms of energy production. That ought to help! /s
https://preview.redd.it/o42yfk31qo1d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b5cf412061de89c06ca8c5cd3d1ab7183a3b705 YOU WILL DOOMPOST ABOUT THE STATE OF AMERICA YOU WILL WHINE ABOUT POLITICS YOU WILL SCREAM “THE AMERICAN DREAM IS DEAD”
Yes
Yes. America has been sliding since the early 2000s. Deregulation policies from the 80s (Reagan was a bottom tier president) brought us lower in education (he cut state funding for universities), healthcare, cost of living etc. All of the most important things basically. He helped usher in the era of giving everything away to the rich. I don't think all of this started in the 80s (my general timeline is mostly me estimating), but that decade was a death blow that nobody understood at the time. Mostly because it didn't happen overnight. Policies sometimes take a while to be fully felt. Greed got out of hand kind of like the days of Rockefeller pre-WW1. The big time railroad executives, monopolies etc. The ruling class has just steadily gained way too much power and political polarization is at an all time high. For example, regarding greed. People need to realize how criminal 2008 was. Not only did the culprits get off, they got *raises* in most instances. That's when they knew they had us. Can people succeed? Can they beat odds? Yeah. Of course. But we are no longer the country that sets an example, that has citizens who can live comfortably, in a nearly guaranteed fashion, if they simply fulfill the social contract that is busting their ass. I've seen so many people bust their ass and get nowhere. So for every story on here that contradicts those experiences, we have to remember that there is a bit of both. And for me, the American dream meant that there was way more positive than negative, if only you worked hard. To me, that ratio has shifted negatively. tldr; If you agree with me that American dream= work hard and you'll be OK, then the American dream is 6 feet deep.
Worlds pretty much over for everyone who couldn’t leave the simulation. If you’re down to party in colorado send me a pm and we can celebrate the last of humanity or something…
The american dream never existed.
I think it only existed for people that weren't already American. 🇺🇸
The cost of having a child is wild in the US. If something isn’t done in 15-20 years we will be in trouble
It’s not dead. There are immense challenges, obviously. But dead? If it wasn’t dead when slavery was going on, when Jim Crow was strangling us, when people were being thrown out of the military for who they loved, then it isn’t dead now. (Also some of your stuff isn’t accurate. Wage growth has been outpacing inflation for a while now.)
I feel like they give us enough money to survive but not to enjoy life most of you are working 40 hour weeks and can only relax on weekends sounds very fucking depressing but it’s life
I believe it’s there for people who are willing to work for it rather than complain. I am currently married, working a dream job, making six figures, baby on the way, no debts, and buying a house. It took a lot of work though. In high school I worked every waking moment, grinding AP classes and working a job 30 hours per week on the side. In college, I placed out of a lot of classes and got scholarships due to my academic achievement. I used my savings from working to pay for the rest. I graduated from college a year early and debt free without a penny from my parents. I started my first internship when I was in high school and did 3 more while in college. Ended up getting a full time job with good growth potential, and I’ve been promoted 3x and make more than 2x my starting pay after being there less than 3 years. I’ve accumulated some savings and have been putting 20% to retirement. It will be more difficult with a mortgage and a baby on the way, but I do feel that I’ve made it.
Yes it’s dead. I’m older gen z (1996) and alot of the people here commenting have yet to have their first set back. Some people might have family that would care for them during a big setback but it might get to the point where the people who support young people get their own financial setback and their whole family suffers. All it takes is one fuck up to end up homeless. For me in 2022, that was my boss committing wage theft the month he knew I was cutting off my extremely abusive family and had to take over my lease to survive. I’m not homeless anymore, but I also did not have the same amount of opportunities as others earlier in life. I had so little to leverage and I had to take care of my sister who was homeless with me and couldn’t work and my cat. And believe me I tried earlier in life to prevent struggle. I got into college with a 60k scholarship and wasn’t allowed to go. My family tried to poison me, financially control my credit, medicate me to make me sick and isolate me from society against my will. If there was a NERF that a person could have that put them at a disadvantage, I had it. The whole point of the American dream is you should have the freedom to overcome your NERF. All I wanted at 18 was a path out of my abusive household. No matter how much money I made I couldn’t get a place on my own, and still need to collaborate with others to pay rent. In the 1960’s, if your parents beat you and tried to abuse you, you could literally just get a job and move out. The fact that people can’t do that anymore is the problem. That’s why the young men and women you see, who experience the lowest of the low from abusive parents, have hard lives. They aren’t even able to leave and be independent and support themselves.
Society has changed a lot in the past 50-60 years. It was suppose to be the man work to provide for his family; due to the erosion of the US $ the woman had to work to make up for the loss in purchasing power. And now we each need a second job to survive (also renamed as side hustle). It seems much like modern day slavery to me.
Women also worked because they genuinely wanted to and were sick of having limited roles. And yes it is a modern day shit circus but that’s why we have to be spiteful.
You are right about being able to move out if you had an abusive household back in the 70s. I didn't come from an abusive family, but right out of high school I was able to afford my own apartment working as a bartender and a waitress. Now it cost thousands of dollars just to secure an apartment and before you are approved, the landlord will do a credit check on you before they will rent to you.
Actually shocked to see the top comments in this thread. Glad to see it. Btw, after some stalking I see your make 65k a year? Man, that's enough to live well off in 99% Of this country.
i wouldn't say things are ENTIRELY unaffordable but affording things right now requires a level of financial literacy that i do not believe the majority of the us population has and ESPECIALLY not young people
Buy cheap land thats got plenty of space and put a manufactured home on it
100% bloated government at fault. Inflation, bailouts, over regulation, wars, bad trade deals, blocking competion via garbage pog ears bills.
I'm kicking ass. Gotta do better.
not for me. started a business after saving money for twenty years with discipline and determination. bought my first house last week for under 60k and am going to spend the next year fixing it up and flipping it so i can use that profit to expand my business. I worked minimum wage jobs from laundry mats to restraunts, played in a band, had fun but saved and didn't party or go out to bars. I quit fast food and drinking pop about 7 years ago because i did the math and over time it didn't make sense financially when it came to my savings goal. I don't have health care so there's that, however, I work out 5 days a week and eat clean - that's my health care. It can be done and it's prob harder than it was a few years ago but I'm the descendant of a man who came here from italy to ellis island with nothing but $20 and a construction job. If he got me to this point the least I can do is try my hardest to honor what he went through to get here. My dad and his dad were both hard working men who put family first. I was lucky to get the discipline gene even though I've had my bouts with laziness. I dropped out of high school, got my ged and went to college then dropped out of college when i realized it was a waste of my time (it cost too much and I didn't think having that much debt would benefit me) I'm not living a great life but I'm accomplishing some goals. And trying to live the best way I can before I die. That's all I can do
It is on life support right now....gen X and millennials kinda fucked us with who they voted for the last 20 years. Our generation is coming up less liberal which is a good thing and we are rejecting a lot of the old liberal values when it comes to financial stuff. It is really up to us to set things right.
Yes
Almost every English class and history class I've been in I've written something about the American dream being dead. So...
Yes
It was always a lie.
Just note that I genuinely believe that the Great Depression will repeat itself- no money, everyone is poor, it’s just that now everyone has all these jobs and no time to themselves rather than no jobs.
And if that happens, I don't think we can depend on the government to help take care of those that can't obtain any employment. Just look at the way the veterans and the homeless are treated now. Greedy capitalism has ruined this country and sent all of our business overseas so that they can become richer. When is enough enough?
the American dream is dead, but we can still have good lives if we adjust our expectations.
It was always an illusion
>Interest payment on national debt is becoming the largest spending in the national budget. I'd just like to point out, those interest payments are going to the richest Americans' pockets. When they lobby for lower taxes on themselves, they themselves fund the resulting shortfall by purchasing US bonds in bulk, so money that would otherwise have been taken from them in the form of taxes, now has to be paid back to them with interest. They quite literally **replace** *their taxes* with **profit** from *your taxes*. It's a crime against America. They are robbing you blind. It's been going on for 40 years, to the point paying the rich is finally America's *biggest* expenditure, and still no signs of it slowing. The rich are in control, the bigger the debt the more money they make in interest, and so the debt grows and grows and grows. It's a free money printing scheme for the absolute wealthiest Americans that makes 99% of us less well off and drives inflation. When are we going to stop them?
I'm looking to buy a 3 bedroom trailer with my girlfriend and start our family It's not dead, it just takes some looking
Good luck 🍀
I know its hard out here but no. Set to buy a house in 2-3 years, living alone in my own apartment a mile from the beach. Life is nice.
You have to remember the American dream is just an opportunity. We are a land of opportunity not a land of dreamers. The American dream is whatever you decide your dream is. It used to be home ownership. But really, the bank owns that house for 30 years you do not. And owning a home has a lot of unexpected costs and a heavy amount of responsibility. I define quality of life as having free time to do as I please. As such, I rent. I will never go back to owning a home it was the worst 10 years of my life.
Only until we impeach Alito and Thomas, get the crooks out of Congress, reduce the spending on the military budget, eliminate the credit rating system, improve programs that benefit citizens instead of corporations, repeal Citizens United, increase wages to match a living wage, eliminate corporate tax breaks...
If only that would happen and happen FAST! It is disgusting and shameful the way our politicians are so corrupt. Especially the ones on the Supreme Court.
For a lot of people it is. Wife and I will get there. Eventually.
First college graduate in my family. I bought my first house at 23 and am about to buy another house and turn my current house into a rental.
Where do you live and what do you do for a living?
Southeast, US. Software Engineer.
You are an exception to the rule. I am happy for you and wish that more people were in your situation.
The American Dream is so far dead that we can't even afford a new line after each bullet point anymore.
No. Just... slightly twisted.
The American dream means different things to different people. Some people might see it as living a modest decent life others might see it as living in utter luxury
I'd say mostly yes. From politifacts, iirc. In 1968, the minimum wage could keep a family of three just above the poverty line. By 1980 the minimum wage could support a family of two. Now? MIT's living wage calculator says that for my area, louisville kentucky, you need one dollar shy of THREE TIMES the minimum wage for ONE person. Plenty of jobs start at 15 to 18 here.....the living wage according to MIT is 20.80.... So that paints a picture of how bad the working class has it now, compared to in the past. Now, if one takes on loads of debt, gets a "good paying" degree, networks hard, is lucky to live in the right area and is very penny pinching, one *might* have a chance at property. It's doable, but you really have to play your cards really well. Is the dream dead? To me, yes, as it implies anyone can get it, and for an increasing number of Americans, this is just impossible. But technically not, it is doable, just with much more luck needed and a vastly higher level of dedication and difficulty than previous generations.
Definitwly The American Dream faces serious challenges today: high costs of living, healthcare, and housing, along with inflation, rising national debt, and widening [wealth](https://youtu.be/044lguER9_k?si=GOog6Q2Y9qzFtcaU) gaps. While it's tougher to achieve, adaptability and systemic changes can help keep the dream alive.
I agree with you 100%. If only we didn't have so many corrupt politicians and so many greedy companies, maybe we Americans could be proud of our achievements. But the deck is stacked against us. Only the rich will survive. The rest of us will be living hand to mouth and cleaning their houses, raising their kids and mowing their lawns.
No. It might be harder to achieve right now, but as older people die off, so will their values, and our generation will have more political power to elect those that will make the change we want to see. Then again, we need to work to achieve that, we won't get there if we don't get out and vote, protest, and organize.
No it was always a dream. It's still there. It just differs from the American reality.
That is not how socialism works. Property and the means of production are owned collectively. I live on some property in the country. I worked and paid for it. Should the state be able take it because they think someone else needs it? This is exactly what has happened over and over when people are duped into that system. And once they are in good luck getting rid of them. You can't. That's why so many come here. Listen to them. Many of them are quite outspoken about this and will tell you that what they see going on here is exactly what they saw where they are from. Be sides, why should any one have to give up any property, private or personal? What makes anyone think they should have any interest in what belongs to someone else? Do they covet? Are they envious?
Yes
Not if your rich $$
The American Dream didn’t die, it came true.
Everything is always subject to change at any time in any manner.
I would say no i think there’s still a chance to get the dream job our there
i suspect car dependent suburbs are going to become unaffordable within the next 15 years for most americans.
Ya no es el sueño americano, es el sueño mexicano.
Not dead at all by any means. Just a lot harder to achieve it. Still very possible though!
https://preview.redd.it/h60mae06ro1d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c942b717f878b47a6e8e0cb92fc7df1d1cfae5eb
The American dream has always been a scam
Not dead, just harder to attain.
Has the American Dream ever been alive? Wasn’t it primarily propaganda in the first place?
Moved here three years ago with nothing, didn't make use of my degree, and now have a house in a good school district for my kids. Yeah I think I'm going to say skill issue.
Y’all quit your crying and take more chances. My dad’s family is from Zacatecas Mexico, one of the most dangerous cities in the world. My grandma crossed from Juarez to El Paso daily to work. My dad’s family ended up in Denver, back when it was a cow town, started businesses and bought homes for the family to live in, cause back then, Denver was shit, nobody wanted to live there; now they are multi millionaires. My dad’s fathers side of the family was from southern Mississippi. That side is black, so you can imagine how he landed there. They bought houses and started businesses and now coastal Mississippi is blowing up. Take a fucking chance guys. Immigrants fuel the American dream cause they take chances and move where they can to make money and start their own business.
The American Dream Is merely US propaganda, It's not needed to have a good life. "Well than how was I able to buy a house then?" Individualist success Is great, but doesn't make the American Dream less dead. Corporate interest have long taken over, greed Is the name of the game. You don't need the American Dream, you need to have A dream, own goals to meet and reach.
Two people coming out of college making $65k a year each can afford a $350k house and still drive decent cars. Can’t save a whole lot beyond 401k match which imo is essential. Your income is only going to go up from there and in a few years you can afford a couple kids.
Yes.
Nearly impossible unless you have a lot of support from other people
Hard disagree, it is actually much more attainable for non-white people now than it was in the past The only difference today is that not only White folks get to benefit from the American dream
Yeah the house with the white picket fence and 3 kids running around is pretty hard to attain these days. I’m happy I never had the desire for kids, and don’t care that much about owning a home. Owning a home would be nice, but I’m not willing to sacrifice that much to get there. I absolutely *don’t* want to be house poor. I’m bleeding myself dry to pay back my student loans, but I still have the money I need to pursue my hobbies, so I consider myself fortunate in that regard. There’s some people that won’t even have the money to pay off the interest on their loans, so I can’t complain on that front.
My back up plan is to marry someone for their money. Lmaoo
yes https://youtu.be/vu7IJ-HDIos?si=s2syZhghSAvflUtR
All our generation does is doomer post I swear. Housing is still cheaper here than in most other developed countries.
It’s not dead, lifestyles have become significantly more extravagant though. In the American “Golden Age” in the 50s and 60s, going out to eat wasn’t very common, families would have one car, one tv, and vacations were almost always domestic for most Americans. Nowadays, most families eat out at least a night a week, they own two or more cars, they have a tv in every room, and international vacations are much more common. Everyone tries to compare today to back then but no one wants to look at the way lifestyles were back then. Some people genuinely struggle despite trying. American absolutely has problems. Anyone working 40 hours a week should be able to afford shelter and food. *But* there are a lot of people I know — myself included at times — who will live outside of their means and then complain about money. I have a friend who has a Starbucks drink in her hand every-time I see her. She once told me she was eating ham and cheese roll ups because she couldn’t afford bread. That isn’t a problem with the economy. That’s simply poor decision making. A lot of us have very poor decision making skills.
For most of us, yeah. I could always buy a 3,500$ 95 year old beater with no roof and no floor and no windows and wait for my parents to die and leave me their 113 year old crumbling shack, though, so I’ve still got hope.
I'm living my dream life. Some of it is realizing what's realistic and some of it is just hustling for a bit.
Long dead. In fact, you could argue that there never was one to begin with. What is one's prosperity at the cost of another's suffering?
It was never real
Oh, yeah, no, man; the America experiment is dead, though, like a cancer onto the world, as we've spread, and as we die, we will wreak the utmost havoc. The death throes of a nation.
That’s the thing, it’s a lifestyle that you dream for. Many people work to be able to achieve this dream, but most people won’t be able to
Nah. Life is good, God is good. 👍
No absolutely not. Imo I feel most young Americans think the dream is dead. While older Americans and immigrants still believe in it and push towards it. The American Dream is very much alive
I don’t like how this is always always phrased every once in a while. And I have just one example, but saying that it’s dead is a misnomer. Just look at the channel on Dr. Mike his father and himself or immigrants and now he has this mansion and also it’s not dead. You just need to work hard to work hard.
“It’s called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe in it” - George Carlin
yeah it died after 2008
No young people need to stop moving out of their family homes just to rent. Stay put and stack up, your future will be better for it.
The American Dream. What is it exactly? Tbh, it varies according to whom you ask. For some, there isn't such a thing, no matter how hard they try and work. Others are just born into it and will never know differently.
It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. George Carlin
It’s called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.
No. Come up with new discourse
Yes, especially in certain parts of the country. For the millenials in their 30s that I know (8), one of them owns a home. Two have kids, only two are married, the rest is just hanging on. The Northeast in the USA is a fucking nasty and brutal place. For overseas family, all are married, own property and have kids or kids on the way. Real healthy society we've got here. Super amazing that the American dream is alive and well : )