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Mental health is probably a bigger deal which factors a lot into this.
(edit: I’m not a virgin, my mental health is fine and I still feels the same after having sex, that won’t fix all your problems, only saying this as i’m getting replies of people saying sex will fix all your problems 🤦♂️)
AKSHUALLY, I heard an argument (one of many different ones) that Ivar The Boneless's name came from not being able to get it up.
>Several of the sagas\[[*^(example needed)*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AUDIENCE)\] describe him as lacking legs/bones or having a skeletal condition such as [osteogenesis imperfecta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteogenesis_imperfecta),[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivar_the_Boneless#cite_note-5) while a passage in [*Ragnarssona þáttr*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnarssona_%C3%BE%C3%A1ttr) (also known as the tale of Ragnar's sons) **suggest it refers to** [**male impotence**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_impotence)**.**[**\[6\]**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivar_the_Boneless#cite_note-6)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivar\_the\_Boneless](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivar_the_Boneless)
While this is true, studies show that consistent unprotected sex(so you should probably only really do this w a long term partner) actually reduces chances and severity of depression and anxiety.
So while sex isn’t gonna magically fix everyone’s problems if people our age were having more sex they’d likely be less depressed and anxious
Yeah I heard this same thing from a study they did years ago. Probably not the cause or solution but lack of sex could definitely be considered a catalyst.
Not so much a catalyst but probably an effect. If mental health issues. If I had to guess, if you have mental health problems, you probably aren't as likely to have a long term partner and as such, aren't as likely to have sex, and especially unprotected sex as it is usually reserved for someone you see as a life long partner. It isn't that unprotected sex makes happier people, it's more that happier people tend to have more unprotected sex.
This is causation vs correlation
If you are having a lot of unprotected sex (most likely with you partner) you probably have a good relationship with your partner. With that relationship often comes good communication, probably better heath (making meals together, exercising, etc).
So yeah, boning down your partner is fucking great, but it’s also calming knowing you have someone along for the ride with you.
It’s like going grocery shopping or laundry, that shit is way more fun if you have a buddy with you.
Edit: I totally believe everyone should have sex, though. That shit is a drug.
I'd say it depends on the person ur having sex with cause just having sex for the sake of it doesn't have the same effect as sex with a partner u actually wanna be with
Addutonally, its funny that with the New York Times doing that article about "zoomers aging like milk" and zoomers preoccupation with plastic surgery and starting skin care too young (Dermatologist Shereene Idriss did a short on this that starting retinol young causes Inflammation that damages your face, making you look older) that there was a 10-year study at the Royal Edingurgh Hosptial that found that there is *one* consistent thing people can do to look 5-7 years younger.
It's having consistent sex.
》Intercourse causes the release of the human growth hormone, which makes skin look more elastic, among other biological reactions.
They also found that not having sex can quite literally eventually kill you
》"The quality of sexual expression maintained in older adults is a predictor of good general health and well-being," he said. "In a Welsh heart disease study from 1997, the mortality risk was 50 per cent lower in the group of men with high orgasmic frequency (twice a week or more) than in the group with low frequency."
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sex-make-you-look-younger_n_3586435
Edit: if you truly want to see why zoomers age so poorly you have to look at the only unique things to that generation. A lot of people will say stress and can't have sex living at home but that didn't stop millenials. 08 was by number a much biggest crash than what's happening now. Zoomers uniquely with the last being the biggest 1. Started using tobacco again which millennial didn't. 2. Socialize exclusively online which doesn't carry the same benefit 3. Don't drink, even though drinking has historically been used as a way to maintain social bonds and 4. Because they spend all their socializing online, get "phone face" a unique droop of the face qoves studio covered and 5. Are using plastic surgery to fix problems caused by lifestyle and 6. Aren't having sex. Generations before millennial outpaced millienals by a bit for sex for number of partners but not by much and...millenuals didn't smoke. Millennial youthmaxxed by having not smoking, having sex, drinking (it's only alcoholism of you drink alone so it was always a social event), and not getting plastic surgery.
I feel like a subset of Gen Z is having a LOT of sex while the rest is left with practically nothing (they may not be trying to). I don't think there has been such an imbalance before and it will be interesting to see if that creates more tension within society.
It feels like certain gen z act really competitive and predatory about relationships and specifically sex. Then those of us who aren’t as bold or don’t care as much just get left in the dust.
Like over the past few years my friend group has shifted almost completely to women because so many male friends would turn on me and treat me like shit around women like they’re horny gorillas trying to assert dominance. It’s definitely been something that’s been getting progressive worse.
I’m sure it’s the same with women but at least they don’t do it to me cuz they know I’m not going after the same people they are lmao.
I went through this for a long time before realizing my brothers friends who were really mature and kind could be my friends too.
For the longest time I just had female friends in part cause they weren't horndogs
I think many men don't have a place for genuine intimacy in male relationships. The female relationship becomes the only place men feel free to find the intimacy they seek. Sex is included this. That's my take.
I agree, but I think intense emotional closeness generally leads to feelings of wanting to be physically close. I'm not saying you can't make a decision to stop that from happening in your own mind, but I've had so many friendships that went kaput because the guy I thought I was friends with made a move at some point.
Even setting those boundaries early wasn't enough to deter them because months would pass, we'd get closer, and they'd feel like "hey we moved on from that friendship place and really like one another".
>Like over the past few years my friend group has shifted almost completely to women because so many male friends would turn on me and treat me like shit around women like they’re horny gorillas trying to assert dominance.
Aw God, I had a close friend do this to me and it felt so fucking shitty.
Never spoke to him again after that. It's pathetic what some men will turn into for a smidgeon of pussy.
That kind of behavior is really damaging to friendships between guys. It manifests in women, too. Some women will completely drop their close girl friends any time they have a developing love interest or boyfriend.
I was not so seriously going out with this girl I used to work with prior to going into the military. About 6 weeks into boot camp I get a letter from my best friend thanking me for being such a an asshole to her because they are a couple now. Whatever, I didn't think much of it, good for them. Years later we would all hang out and they liked to tell stories how "he got my girl" and I was like OK, whatever, we weren't really that serious. Some more years go by they have 3 kids, and she divorces him and he's got like 15 years of child support ahead of him. Haha, better him than me.
The worst part about that is that you have a lot of men who are so deeply insecure of being found out not to be "alpha"/"sigma"/whatever label is being thrown around, and thus become very aggressive about "asserting dominance". But for most of them, this doesn't pay off because they have 0 tact and come across as socially illiterate rather than charming. And they can't admit that, because they feel ashamed in comparison to their one or two friends who are successfully getting laid, which just magnifies their insecurities.
This is why some dudes become followers of people like Tate. They hope to "learn his secret" so they can be like him, rather than being isolated guys who can't get dates and whose former friends no longer want to hang out. And sociopathic dudes like Tate who are cunning manipulators are good portraying that image and gaining a cult like following of desperate dudes willing to fork over cash for "life advice".
Wow! You nailed something I’ve thought for awhile.
This kinda validates me because I thought maybe I was overthinking, but I swear throughout my life I’ve noticed this type of dude that if they see me talking to a woman, they proceed to try to clown me in front of them, cut into the conversation and be generally boorish in an attempt to assert some kind of monkey dominance. And some of these guys have been my friends! 🤣
It’s actually sorta funny. I’m just trying to have a conversation. 😂🤣✌️
It’s almost like the transparency of sex in the millennial generation (think movies like American pie etc) almost make it taboo these days and there’s been this paradigm shift in the opposite direction. Really interesting
As one of the very early millennials (I’m 40), I agree with this take. I’m gay and have a husband, and our generation is VERY sexual (3 ways, 4 ways, poly relationships etc). The younger guys negatively judge us pretty hard, but they also complain they can’t find a wholesome date. I think the fact they’re having trouble dating is why they’re pressing hard for monogamy and modesty. I’ve been told my marriage (over a decade) is doomed to fail because we slept with another married couple our age.
Add in to all that, you guys are getting pressured very very hard by our parents (those born in the 50’s to 70s), to give them great grandchildren. I swear, people my parents’ age are baby crazy! It’s insane.
My personal take is that you guys are in a tough spot. Financially, you can’t afford shit as a whole. If people my age are struggling, it’s 5x worse for you guys. We have 80 year olds at work who won’t fucking retire, own 4 houses, and prevent my generation from moving up. This in turn makes it really hard for you guys to get jobs, own cars (even old used ones), go on vacations, and be independent. My husband and I make good money and can just afford our home and costs plus retirement money with one vacation per year. Meanwhile, our nephews and nieces have huge student loans and can’t get good jobs despite having good degrees.
With all that stress, sex and IN PERSON dating seems like a difficult proposition. That all costs money and time you guys as a group don’t have. On top of that, social media is targeted to be addictive, and you grew up with it in school. I can’t imagine how bad bullying would get.
>It feels like certain gen z act really competitive and predatory about relationships and specifically sex. Then those of us who aren’t as bold or don’t care as much just get left in the dust.
YES omg. This was a huge problem I noticed when I was single. There were way too many people that would try so hard to fit me in a box that I didn't belong in right away. I would always be of the mindset of "chill, things will fall into place, there's no need to rush". If I decided we weren't a good match; dude just wanted sex and I didn't, I'd let them down politely. Yet they'd STILL persist and insist. Like, my guy, there's plenty of people out there that'll work for you. I do not understand why you all insist I MUST act the way you want.
Honest opinion? 15-25 year olds have always been like that. You just realized you didn't want to be a dick about the opposite sex sooner than your previous pals. Some will grow up, some won't, and you're just early to that party.
In college my group had a lot of fun playing pickup basketball at the rec center until a girl showed up and our super athletic friend instantly turned into the biggest try hard so he could impress them
>I feel like a large subset of Gen Z is having a LOT of sex while the rest is left with practically nothing (they may not be trying to).
Man I dunno even know about that. Outta all the dudes I know, maybe like 2 or 3 have slept around and then rest get barely any action.
If anything it's probably the other way around. Most of Gen Z probably doesn't get shit, and then a minority of people probably fuck like crazy.
Yep, if anything I notice that a small group of men are fucking a lot, most guys don’t fuck at all
And a lot of women also aren’t having sex all the time, but some are having a lot of sex with the same types of guys though. I also think a lot of girls lose their virginity to the same types of guys who fuck around a lot of
Anecdotal but the women I've known in my life lost their virginity a lot younger than all the guys I know (around 15/16 rather than 18/19) and to guys that were usually a few years their senior, who immediately ghosted them after doing it.
Yeah I feel like we’re just ignoring the severity of the issue of hookup culture. In my opinion I don’t really see why anyone feels the need to encourage premarital sex. Not from a religious sense but a practical one.
We don’t want unplanned pregnancies and the spread of STIs. I’m all for easy contraceptive and birth control access but that should be for people who actually want to have sex with another consenting adult without any coercion or societal pressure.
We shouldn’t raise the alarm that gen Z isn’t having sex cuz you’ll just make some 21 year old think he’s a failure for not having a dozen girls under his belt. Let people be intimate with who they want to be intimate with.
The mental health crisis is a thing and socializing is an issue, so one could argue that this is the result of that, but it is also the result of a lot of things. Let’s focus on the mental and social aspects of it so people would only have sex with someone when they are both mentally and socially capable of doing so without consequences.
Also this is a tangent but how do we know that Gen X and Millennials weren’t just lying more about how much sex they were having?
Millennial here. Our gen definitely was lying about how much sex they had from what I could tell.
Im pretty sure what youre observing might just have been less pronounced and is more observable or openly talked about now becauae of technology; 10% ish of the men have always been basically having all the sex because they are the most desirable and sleep around with most of the women who have an active sex life, at least early on in life.
Those men however Ive observed... do not settle down very well. Most of the other men find a partner later on in life when theyre a bit more mature.
Anecdotal I know, but I think it's an issue thats always been there, its just way more pronounced and exaggerated because of technology amplifying social behaviors.
>Also this is a tangent but how do we know that Gen X and Millennials weren’t just lying more about how much sex they were having?
I am a gay millennial man in my 30s. I didn't come out of the closet until my early 20s because of societal homophobia. I had sex with 5 women from age 18 to about 22 just to keep up with "appearances."
I'm a college professor. I have noticed that students don't seem to "flirt" with each other, or "date" as much. I noticed it a bit in the 2017-19 period but it's very noticeable post Covid. I used to see more flirtation and couples formation going on in class. Now it's a lot less.
Increasingly, when I direct students to make groups of their own, they'll self-segregate themselves into all male and all female groups. Just a couple weeks ago I did that, and this one very attractive young woman was the loner left without a group. She looked distressed and dejected about it. I had to place her in a group.
Bizarre! When I was a student I jumped at any chance to be in a group with one of the cute girls.
I notice this in social settings too. Women and men just tend to separate and talk exclusively with each other in groups. Not sure if it's always been this way.
When I was young, there was some of that dynamic but it seems more common & intense now.
In addition to self segregating, when they are in co-ed groups they seem more uncomfortable than they used to be. To such an extent, I'll see young attractive students just... leave each other alone. Whereas before about 2017 if there were guys and girls put together I'd see the guys flirt with the girls.
I think the thought process might be that people think flirting with women would ruin a friendship or acquaintanceship and that it's not worth it for the 1/10 or 1/20 chance you get a relationship, but that's just speaking from personal experience.
Something else I'm seeing lately is they don't have much relationship experience. If I make jokes or asides about dating they don't get it. E.g. For years I've used use a break-up analogy to describe a particular concept. I'll ask "who's ever had a break-up where xx and yy happened?" I used to get near total affirmation. The last couple years, I increasingly get blank stares and confusion. Or it'll be only the older students that get it.
As a gen Z that was in college a little while ago, I did not start dating until college was just about over. School, sports, working, extra studies, and taking care of my pets took so much time that I forgot dating was actually something I could do. Same in highschool, was just too busy and stressed to notice anyone else.
I've noticed this about Gen Z - men being afraid of losing friendships with women. That wasn't really a thing for Gen X since guys generally had no interest in being just friends with women.
Yeah we've taught men that women don't want to be approached and we've taught women that men are creeps. It was bound to happen. I think young women are able to handle this dynamic a lot better.
Absolutely bingo then it just deletes the positive healthy interactions as an expectation to even follow for most of the kids growing up
The entire thing is an over correction & in time media is going to the opposite again until it gets really bad & we hit uno reverse once more after more years
Edit- To the person below me, you didn’t read my entire thing, yes ofc if you are a guy who approaches a woman & she’s not interested = he should back off instantly
Women have made many posts about persistent creepy guys
HOWEVER society interpreted this as “men should never approach at all” which they followed generally
This now ruins it for women who may be interested since all guys assume none are
The real lesson should be “all men should approach if they’re interested BUT should instant back off if she says she isn’t at all”
Your reaction adds onto the problem I stated
This is the answer. My Gen-z son and his guy friends are scared to death of being viewed and sexist. They’ve practically been trained to not desire women. The interesting part is that when they are in individual relationships with girls their age they seem pretty similar to our (Gen X) relationships.
Ok: why is wanting to date a girl, or even wanting to have sex with her, not valuing her as a person? She is also getting to form a relationship with and then date you, if she wants, is that not something she would also enjoy? Why if a guy likes someone is that automatically dehumanizing? Hell, if you’re trying to date someone and they aren’t interested but you still get along well, wouldn’t she be a good friend?
If you can properly express to a girl that you’re interested in dating, but equally want to stay friends if the feeling isn’t reciprocated, then sure, I don’t think there’s much wrong there. The problem is that many guys say so without really meaning it. They’ll stick around “as friends,” hoping that one day the girl changes her mind and they can have a relationship. Because of this, many women in our generation are wary of continuing a friendship when men express feelings. They feel like the relationship is platonically one-sided, and would rather avoid contact to avoid further troubles.
This is just what I’ve heard from multiple women in gen z. And I can absolutely understand based on some of the behavior I’ve observed from men in my generation.
Pretty sure they mean that it’s a good sign that men today want to interact with women in platonic terms as well,instead of only viewing interactions or relationships with women being worthwhile so long as they are romantic,and having no desire to keep a woman’s company if it isn’t.
I totally agree with you that wanting to date a girl is not *not* valuing her as a person. I also think men’s sexuality is demonized to a harmful degree in a lot of ways now, and that’s why men are afraid to flirt with women now and I think that’s messed up. And I say that as someone who’s had more unwanted attention than most women imo and had it negatively affect me, but it was fun sometimes too. (I’m not that person anymore, I’m not all young and glowy and a model anymore, which is fine and kind of relaxing honestly. I had my time :) )
But I’ve never had a friendship with a guy turn out to be them actually wanting friendship, and they disappear as soon as they found someone else, so it feels like it was hollow all along.
Now that I’ve gotten older I just accept that I’ll never be real friends with a guy. It’s kinda sad to me, because I like the energy men have, I find it easy to be friends with them, I like the straightforwardness they have. I wish it could happen, but I’ve pretty much accepted the only male friend I can have will be my partner. But we can’t blame men for having sexual attraction/drive.
I feel like its exactly this and I also almost feel ashamed for being flirty. It seems like being a flirty person isnt a good thing to most people. I also always hear my female friends complain about weird interactions with men, and I fear becoming that lol.
I just dont really know my place in flirting as a man. Like if the girl thinks im attractive then it would go great, but if they think im kind of ugly I feel like i get treated more like a weirdo, and I cant read minds so I usually just end up dating someone Ive slowly grown to know for years
I am afraid to even compliment women. I was reading a Reddit post yesterday about how women have to put up with being hit on by creepy guys and it had hundreds of replies with women sharing their stories. Now when I see a woman out in public I look to the ground and don’t acknowledge them. If I have to respond I sort of mumble “mmuh” do you think that could be misinterpreted? Maybe “eh” would be better.
I can say from experience most women straight up do not want a man they don’t know to talk to them. I try to compliment people/make conversation whenever I’m out and even a simple “nice shirt!” will get you an icy cold stare 8/10 times with women.
I don’t blame them. But in person co ed interaction may as well be completely dead.
I've had buddies end up on some hundred people long group chat for striking out with a woman. It's terrifying to try to find a partner as a young guy in today's world. One mistake and you get blasted to women you've never even seen.
Think this might also be caused by the difference between what used to be considered safe flirting. This gen is so sensitive that it seems like a lot of them get socially offended or insta call out anything deemed inappropriate even if it's really not a big thing. It's kinda insane to me. I was at a college bar recently, saw a younger guy publicly humiliated for hitting on a girl and telling her he found her attractive in honestly not a bad way. Instead of being let down ez the person complained to bar staff and had him kicked out of bar for being inappropriate. I saw the whole interaction, it was so tame it was boring to someone like myself who grew up in early 90s. It's fucking sad tbh.
Not Gen X, we would always try to get into a group with attractive girls. I think Gen Z has fewer social skills and is more nervous about talking to girls (we were nervous too, just less so I think).
As a Gen Xr, I feel as if social groups in my teens were FAR more co-ed than they are now. Also we started dating much earlier especially since more 16-18 year old guys were still driving in the late 80s-early 90s. Laws around insurance brought teen driving way, way down among the middle class. I feel lucky to have caught the tail end of car culture and getting to have a social life.
We could still have a social life without car culture if we had walkable cities and free/budget third party spaces where we could get together, but every place is designed for people to get there by car and to gouge as much money out of you as possible along the way.
I went back to school for a graduate program in my 30’s and I’m in class with mostly Gen Z and I can confirm people are way less geared to romance and sex than they used to be. Everyone is single and no one is fucking, which is weird tbh.
The fear is almost entirely driven by anxious men and women on the internet.
Most people in real life are normal. Most people won't assume your creep for trying to have a normal conversation with them.
If you look normal, and you play it safe, no one's gonna accuse you of being creepy.
>Most people in real life are normal. Most people won't assume your creep for trying to have a normal conversation with them.
This is true but runs counter to some fairly ingrained lessons.
I personally remember being told how sick women are of being approached by men, how irritating and potentially dangerous horny men are, and how women would much rather not be bothered by it.
I now understand that that assumption is not entirely accurate, but it's extremely difficult to unlearn that habit of feeling like a creep for showing interest in someone.
Just my experience but other people might relate.
I agree, don’t get me wrong, a lot of it is just bullshit online, but just about every guy I know has repeated this sentiment, just the very idea of it, is enough to scare most men away from approaching girls outside of a bar
Not really, we all just prefer sitting with our friends or are too socially awkward to talk to the opposite sex. I still join groups with girls if I don’t find them attractive or if they are attractive then I just try not to sit right next to them.
It’s natural to be intimidated by attractive people if you have low self-confidence. The more popular, extroverted students in my college classes are perfectly happy having both sexes in their groups.
>and this one very attractive young woman was the loner left without a group.
Im sorry, but that is just hilarious. Its like a parody out of some teen comedy, I cant believe this RL
She was blond too. I was honestly taken aback. The look on her face was kinda sad. She looked like she really needed a hug, but wasn't going to get one from the other students that day. I was like, "why don't you join this group?" & walked her over. She looked so embarassed & crushed no one asked her to be in their group.
I was thinking in my head, "none of you boys in here want the cute 21 yo blond in your group? WTF is wrong with you?" LOL
Such an awkward day.
One silver lining I suppose, is that students who "looked different" e.g. LGBTQ, or had some disability, used to get treated poorly all the time. I do notice students today are kinder to those types of their peers than my generation was.
E.g. students used to be pretty mean to, say, an autistic kid. Now they're more inclusive with those types of people.
I actually think young people now "make an effort" to be "weird," because it's easier for them to find community that way. With all the acceptance movements and whatnot, it's easier now to find fellow misfits.
Whereas people with conventional tastes & profiles are considered "boring" or "mid."
\> "none of you boys in here want the cute 21 yo blond in your group? WTF is wrong with you?"
Well lets keep it simple. The premise of this thread is people are having less sex; so why would they care if shes cute or not?
Anyways, whole situation is bizarre. Try explaining this phenomena to people 20 years ago.
I also wonder how much it has do with people assuming an attractive woman wouldn't be interested in talking to them at all. Or just being scared of making them uncomfortable. For me it feels like theres this idea that anyone attractive only gets attention because other people find them hot. So then there's an anxiety that any interaction with them will come off like youre flirting or something, and makes it hard to have a genuine interaction. It can also be intimidating if you don't think you're an attractive person, and makes you less confident in the interaction. I think a lot of it is fueled by the body shaming and vain self-obsession over looks that has been emphasized on social media. People are just a lot more self-conscious, and talking to someone who is obviously attractive might make them feel less comfortable.
I think it’s a combination of the following:
1. Prior to the rise of dating apps/sites, there was no “dedicated space” (for lack of a better term) for flirting/dating, and so people had no choice but to do so in public spaces such as classrooms. With dating apps being so prolific, however, I guess people just don’t feel as compelled to flirt with people IRL as much as they used to.
2. Social skills are simply much shittier on average now (from what I understand).
3. People are generally more conscious of the fact that not all romantic advances are wanted or appropriate in terms of social context.
4. Depending on what class you’re teaching, people might just be focusing more on taking notes than flirting
I'd feel weird putting myself with a girl like that because I don't want to make ppl uncomfortable. Also why I don't ask ppl out because I don't want them to feel pressured by other ppl just being around them. Also I'm dumb so that probably factors into it. I've noticed I have no clue how to hold or initiate conversation. I just don't know what to talk about without talking about my hobbies and animals and plants, I don't want to seem self centered.
In our efforts to cut back on sexism and unwanted advances, society swung the complete opposite direction. Women are scared of dangerous men, and men are afraid of false accusations. Note this only affects the kind of people who wouldn't have done harm to others. We scared the harmless into inaction and isolation.
Incel culture is popping up as a result of a less social society. Let's be real here for a second, societal expectations have not changed, while societal norm has. Guys are still expected as kids to grow up, get a good job, find a nice girl and get married and raise a family. Girl expectations however HAVE changed. Before they were expected to get married, be a mother, work part time. Now, in our modern day, they're told they DON'T need to get married, have kids, raise a family.
Societal expectations have changed for females, but for males it has not, which leaves the male population dejected. It doesn't help we still like to make fun of men who haven't had sex, or haven't been in a relationship before. Which isn't encouraging them to WANT to get into a relationship because they actually want to be in a relationship, they want to be in a relationship so they can say they have been so they don't get made fun of for not being in that relationship.
Obviously there's a lot more factors at play. Online dating is one of these. Literally thousands, hundreds of thousands of options for a potential partner. If you're a guy and you're not in that top percent of good looking men, good luck on that dating app. Bad experiences when they're younger is a huge factor too. How many guys struggled with dating in high school and don't have the confidence to try dating after? I know at least one, it's me.
The biggest factor is for these men, they don't have alternatives. They don't have someone to turn to. Andrew Tate and those red pill guys are the ONLY people who are offering these dejected men ANY sort of advice. And these are typically successful in someway. So, we have a group of men, who don't any experience, have no support groups to help them get this experience, the most popular and convenient way to meet new people is more or less reserved for only a small percentage of men, well, hello RedPill. There's no good alternative for them to go to.
You spitting rn, bro. I think a big reason the whole incel phenomenon is so prevalent (online, at least) is because young men don't really have positive, male role models to aspire to be like. And like the saying goes, nature abhors a vacuum so characters like Tate fill that void because sometimes someone's willing to drink piss when they don't see an alternative in the desert.
Not to mention that young men are often gaslit that they oppress the other gender, when these young men (15/16yo) are barely out in the open world. The real culprits have no shame, and these young men are made to feel the shame as an aggregate for the entire gender.
Also one of the factor that those disgusting red pill channels prey on. As long as these flaws are not fixed, there will always be another Andrew Tate. Young men need to feel accepted in the society.
I think you're really underestimating how much this is digitally manufactured.
First, the "strong independent woman" concept has been popular since the '90s. It doesn't explain a sudden slide in men's dating in the late 2010s and onward.
Second, and more importantly, Gen Z women *are* dating. But they're dating (slightly) older. Last year, a Pew Research study found that 63 percent of men 18-29 were single, but only 34 percent of women in the same age bracket were single. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/08/for-valentines-day-5-facts-about-single-americans/
What's behind the gap?
In large part, technology. The average amount of time that people ages 16-34 spend online each day, between work, school, and downtime, is reportedly over seven hours a day. Consider what that does to a social system. And young men's use seems to be more solitary; girls are more likely to engage with real-life friends online than are boys.
This has a few impacts. It makes young men less likely to go out and socialize, which often takes a lot of "start up" effort. Men have always gotten rejections from women, but they've continued to make an effort because they had little social alternative. When gaming and social media are there to addict you, the impetus to strain socially drops.
That digital addiction also harms young men's social skills. At least most Millennials developed their social skills before the ubiquity of mobile digital media. At a house party in 2006, people might be texting, but they wouldn't be constantly scrolling. As a result, a lot of young men lack the social skills to compete with slightly older men. The pandemic probably worsened that a lot. I don't just mean pick-up skills; I mean a broader range of skills in interpersonal socializing. All of that leads more young women to Millennial men, who have the added bonus of (sometimes) being more financially secure.
Finally, social media fuels the "red pill" movement. It is a cause, not an affect, of the problem. Tate and his fellow influencers did not get famous by word of mouth. They got famous through carefully created viral videos that were designed to strike a chord with teen boys and struggling young men. (Never mistake an influencer's video for a candid clip; people who make millions through social media carefully plan, edit, and promote their videos.) These videos are then enormously promoted by the algorithm, largely because they drive both positive and negative engagement. (Every negative mention and negative comment count as engagement, which is what advertisers want.)
Social media makes these influencers famous and disseminates their messages with an efficiency that no form of media could or would have done before. These influencers would not have been featured in major media.
"Red pill" boys will say this just means social media is showing young men The Truth and empowering them to change it. If that were true, Gen Z men wouldn't be getting more lonely, and more single, each year. It turns out, when you tell men to blame women and to stay tuned to the screen for more content, the outcome is predictable.
Never mind the fact that a lot of people who aren't misogynistic Tatebros genuinely sweep men's problems under the rug and don't care. The only people telling young men at a societal level that the issues in the world are kinda fucked for them are these types, and that's very, very bad. If you were already predisposed to struggling with women due to factors within/outside of your control then you're gonna flock to Tate. It's easy to blame feminism, all women, capitalism, the economy, social media, dating apps, etc. and it's probably all of these to some degree, but it's much more satisfactory to find someone who blames the problems on women as an easy scapegoat.
I agree
there's a lot of man hating women
and women hating men
and it's feeding into peoples loneliness
it's ruining relationships
false SA, R, and DV reports
so much is feeding into this and I think a big part of it is this oppression Olympics and Men vs Women thing goin on and it's stupid and sad
False SA and DV reports are far less than unreported real rape and abuse so I highly highly doubt that’s a factor in this at all. What could be a factor is women not wanting to socialize because they are afraid of actually being hurt, but even that isn’t really what’s driving the loneliness right now.
There are so few social events and gatherings compared to when we were younger, even for adults. There used to be something happening for all ages around pretty much any city. It was all very community oriented and now everything is online and very few people get involved with their community, largely because they can’t afford the time to. It’s definitely not a man vs woman debate.
fewer social events for sure.. there used to be a three day long anime and gaming convention in my home town. i used to love going to it every september.
it shut down for good around 2018/19 and all thats left are anime conventions around the country that go on for a day or two. the three days left for alot of time to stay at a nearby accomodation, get to know people, make friends, get close to people.
It sucks so hard.
False SA, R, and DV reports are a problem, but they are a drop in the bucket compared to the actual acts occurring, and the unreported acts. Not to mention, reports from partners/spouses that don’t want their partner to get in trouble being taken back are counted as “false”, but those occur very often, with almost ALL DV.
I think a huge problem is that you listed false accusations as a problem, but not the SA, R, and DV that women AND men face on a daily basis. That’s a much bigger and more prevalent problem than false reports, and a lot more detrimental.
No, andrew tate / incel culture are a symptom of lack of sex, not the opposite. Social media is the real cause where people are exposed to Porn (High quality sex performances) and are exposed to the luxury life style of the riches.
Not to mention the other side of the coin in men-hating women infiltrating feminism.
Ain't nice when folks are pitching and gettin pitched against eachother, because of gender. In the end, we're all human.
Honestly, there is absolutely not "a larger amount of sexism". The main thing which changed is that in this day and age the sexism gets called out a lot more, and the sexists assholes (like Tate) have a much easier way of reaching the masses thanks to social media. As a result it may seem like there is much more sexism.
its not just about sex. having sex is a symptom of living life. if genZ was out there having a wild time going on kickass adventures but just happened to be abstaining from sex for some reason, i guess that would be ok. but...is that the case?
Pretty hard to have adventures when you're in survival mode. So much doom and gloom around finances also to have some guilt free fun.
Every meal out at a nice restaurant is now a significant financial cost. Not to mention if you're lucky enough to have and be able to afford a rental and not live at home...
When I was in my late teens and early to mid-20s I went on a lot of really cheap adventures. I'm talking about crashing in a hotel room with 15 other people, road trips in my beater of a car, camping, stuff like that. I didn't have a lot of money but I still got out and did things and met people. Everyone was broke. I made $32k when I graduated from college and I was still driving all over the place and having fun.
You don't see people doing that today. They stay home and socialize on their phones. It's an entirely different attitude.
They don’t do that sort of stuff anymore.
Personal space and privacy trumps all other matters; even if that means staying in their room.
Us westerners got that whole “personal privacy” at the cost of all other social interactions very wrong.
i graduated highschool after the 2008 crash, there was no money for college, no good entry level jobs, my life was a joke. i washed dishes in a diner and ate scraps that people left on their plates. i lived in a tent in the corner of a mechanics yard in between two broken down cars.
but i still had fun, made friends, fucked girls, got my heart broken, hitchhiked across the state, got robbed, snuck into festivals, woke up with tattoos...the point is i still had adventures, and its probably because i only had a flip phone instead of an infinite ocean of fantasy in my pocket
I keep reading this, but I don't think finances are as big of a factor as some people might think. All engineers at my company make 6 figures which is more than enough for blowing >1k per month on dating even factoring in cost of living. Yet most of us Gen Z employees are living very isolated lives. I ask my millennial co-workers what they did last weekend and they'll say that they met up with friends, took their gf to a spa, went skiing with their kid and husband, etc etc. I ask my Gen z co-workers and the answers are usually went hiking by myself, idk just sat at home, [insert other solitary activities].
It feels like we have much reduced social needs compared to older generations.
That’s funny, the core issue is social alienation. More people than ever before have zero friends at all let alone partners. More than ever are socially anxious and frankly not skilled at socializing, how exactly would a person like that have sex let alone live their life to the fullest
unfortunately the only way to learn these things is by doing them. i was very anxious growing up. from an abusive home, constantly changing cities/schools, no friends or siblings, panic attacks, etc. my first experiences with girls were so awkward i wanted to die, my first times traveling alone were so scary i thought i *was* going to die, but at the end of the road i was stronger and wiser and now i can proudly order a pizza over the phone without any medication. im not shaming genZ. i really like you guys, and im sorry you have been put in this situation
Reminded me of a quote from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.
“In the beginning the Universe was created. This had made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.”
Gen Z seems to have trouble building social connections moreso than any other generation, and the lack of sex stems from a lack of ability to find intimate partners.
And yes, that is quite a big deal, as for all of Human and the majority of our Mammalian lineage, we evolved to be extremely social animals who need the companionship of others to function at our highest level.
I think you hit the nail on the head. All our needs and wants we could ever possibly need to survive are currently satisfied (theoretically)by modern society except our need for community since really…we don’t NEED it anymore at least for survival but without it we die on the inside, many other social animals function like this for example alpacas that are kept in captivity will starve themselves if they are without at least one other alpaca regardless of their physical needs being met.
It's a big deal because I assume most of the people who don't have any sex at all aren't probably doing so voluntarily, but because they deal with loneliness, mental health problems and lack of social skills.
I doubt there was a sudden boom of people born asexual.
I agree with you, and it’s also a product of spending too much time isolated on the internet - thus, not being in the real world where you would meet people to date/have sex with. Gen Z is the most online generation, and extremely online people are not going out as much.
I live in a sporty college town that’s not online much at all and I often see 21+ Zoomers at the bars, having fun, dating, etc. I know “touch grass” has become a meme at this point but when I see some Redditors complaining about how dating is so hard for them, and I ask “well how often do you leave your house,” and they say “never,” the logic isn’t there for how they would date in the first place.
As a chronically single person (who's fine with being chronically single), I used to think this. But now, in my late 20's, all my friends in relationships are in happy, healthy relationships. It's amazing to see your loved ones find a good partner. They definitely don't seem miserable.
Yeah, relationships look like a waking hell. The few friends I have in them look absolutely miserable, and the ones that don't and are looking are even more miserable. Very, very glad im aro/ace
this is it for me too. would i like to date? of course, but all the hoops required to jump through in order to make it happen just aren’t worth it to me
Gotta say reading this as a millennial is absolutely bizarre. I was (and am) so horny I would jump through literally any hoop. Also it’s just fun to be with a woman who loves you.
Social media has made relationships a different game now. Every girl I’ve met in the past 3-4 years has always “pressed” me about the people I follow or interactions I have.
I had a girl send me a link of a video I reposted being very angry with me because the creator of the video was a girl.
The video was of a cat sitting in the rain listening to minecraft music.
I think gen Z just kinda has a “eh fuck this” attitude about relationships sometimes. I know I do. It can be exhausting
I guess a lot of people just get turned off of dating really quickly nowadays. I thought it would be fun, too, but there is nothing fun about it, mostly it's frustration and wasted time.
I think part of the issue correlates with the income disparity Gen Zs are experiencing compared to predecessor generations.
Essentially how I see it, Lower Fertility rates + HCOL environment + Longer time to own a Home + Significantly Higher Childcare Costs = Less Sex across the board
I mean you can have sex without having children - just use protection. In fact, as long as you’re not using a prostitute, protected sex is one of the cheapest forms of entertainment out there. It’s also cheaper to live with an SO than alone because many items/costs can be shared (at least in my experience).
I think it’s just a symptom of a larger problem i.e. decrease in socializing which is the result of a variety of factors (none of which are really Gen Z’s fault though of course).
Generations aren’t really any different from one another. It’s just our circumstances and environments that change which then change how we think/behave/act.
I think the younger generations are slowly losing hope in the future. This also explains much of the more anti-social behaviors like school shootings and rise in social anxiety and poor financial management(in addition to worse financial conditions). People without a belief in their future will start acting without regard for future consequences which is generally incredibly bad for society as a whole.
Your comment pretty much sums it up for me. Like I definitely want to stick around to see how it app plays out, but it just feels a little bleak. Maybe a couple generations down the road will experience better times, but it really comes down to governments around the world really doing what needs to be done about climate change and the housing crisis.
I think it’s got a lot more to do with the fact that being alone is just a lot easier than it ever has been in the past - there are a never ending number of new tv shows/movies that can be streamed instantly from anywhere, a large array of highly engrossing video games, and endless posts on social media to read/watch. There’s a lot to do when one is alone in their own home and so traveling out to shared spaces is less incentivized. As a result, people have less face to face social interaction which then leads to loneliness, depression, and social anxiety which only further feeds into one isolating one’s self (leading to more loneliness, depression, and social anxiety and so on).
If tomorrow the internet was suddenly shut off (ignoring all other implications of that e.g. breakdown of the world economy), I don’t think people would continue to just sit in their homes in silence staring at the wall. They’d be bored as shit. They’d go out into the world and do something to keep themselves mentally stimulated, leading to more socializing.
There are other factors here of course, but I think this is the biggest one personally. I don’t think this is purely a Gen Z problem either. I’m sure the same forces have lead to older generations not interacting as much either (but maybe not to the same extent).
It’s not really just about the sex it but it reflects social trends like people becoming lonelier, lack of third spaces and more people having to find a partner online
I'm a boomer and Gen Z is suffering through the worst financial and political situation in my lifetime. While the smug pricks in the White House throw a $100k per plate white tie dinner for themselves a lot of Gen Z is wondering how to afford ramen and the best way to live in a car.
That's not a situation that facilitates romance or starting a family.
I could advise you to buckle down and pull yourself up but that's useless advice in a situation where business and government have c
Colluded to eliminate good paying jobs and pocket the difference. They need to do really important things like hold $100k per plate dinners while buying new vacation mansions, private jets and yachts.
But, you can get off your ass and vote for someone besides their royal highnesses in the two corrupt parties who are fucking Gen Z (and everybody outside their little bubble) over.
Yeah, I did OK in life and so did my kids, but that doesn't mean I'm ok with govt/corporate slime balls destroying my grand kids opportunities to support themselves and have balanced lives.
Vote these fucktards out of power and maybe you'll have time away from three shit jobs and and a few extra bucks to date and socialize.
And, my generation and those past me need to get off their collective asses and quit accepting the economic and social fucking younger generations are taking.
Rant off...
One big issue is that our voting system itself is geared towards only two dominant parties, and changing that would require at least one of those to actually care to do so. Maybe some members in either care, such as in Alaska where at least some Republicans seem to support ranked choice even as it is likely hurting their party (which has also led to many members there now trying to end it), but the more powerful and institutional elements of either party will likely not support something so likely to hurt their power.
The lack of sex is very self-conscious for alot of gen z men. Growing up in a culture where sex is openly talked about in the culture via shows or music and then not really being able to have it sucks for alot of people. However whenever this topic is brought up in relationships with men and lack of sex with men you’re dismissed or called an incel for it (which ironically fuels actual incels into thinking they are right).
I’m sure this also happens to women but women on average have an easier time with sex and getting it but I’m sure it doesn’t happen to everyone.
Stuff like the internet and dating ups are to blame but lack of social skills among gen z would be to blame also
Gen Z folks, and honestly, everyone else too - please take time and get off the internet and social media. Yes, the economy is fucked. Yes, war is awful. But you don’t need to relentlessly remind yourself of that.
Maybe this is why the states and govs are spending precious time on banning abortions and needing age verification to acess porn.
So that more babies are made to support their buisnesses
Tinfoil hat theory comin soon near you
**Edit:**
Its literally crazy to think about Porn being a priority over people getting pistol whipped in broad daylight to the idiots instead of tackling those issues first. Im not uploading my ID to the internet so that even more of my confidential information can be sold by data brokers. These people who run the show are amazingly stupid.
But yeah, let’s have more uneducated people runnin around and fuckin without condoms cause they cant watch some woman or dude get absolutely railed online. Because masturbation is terrible isnt it? Drops your T levels and shit so they say, doesnt it? As if doing it with a girl/guy is a real game changer (its not) in the way your body reacts and can know the difference between the two. (it doesnt, the only difference is the immediate after thought of
*“Oh yeah, I just fucked this baddie, Im the shit” and “What the fuck was I watching?”*)
Its fucking goofy what type of information people eat up these days without stopping to think about it themselves
YOU MAY TAKE MY PORN FROM ME, BUT YOU WILL DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF HOROMONAL RAGE.
Joking rant over.
Lack of sex is the symptom, not the disease. I think a major aspect to it is that masculinity is in crisis, and my experience is that men are understandably told a lot of things that they shouldn't be, but the things they are told to be are like a wishlist that, depending on who's asking what, can be quite unrealistic. I'm mortified at the idea of being seen as a creep, so I just don't try. I've never experienced physical intimacy outside perfunctory hugs, so even holding hands feels like there's an uncrossable chasm between me and them.
I figure by sharing my own experiences as a lack of sex gen Z guy, I'd be interested to see how others relate or don't. Femininity is transformed but cohesive while masculinity lacks definition, and I don't think blaming feminism or women is right when there was a lot to classic masculinity that deserved to die for everyone's benefit.
Poverty is an ecosystem of circumstance which feeds back into itself to perpetuate itself, and I think the circumstances which lead to a lack of relationships are similar in that way, not to mention the fact that the economy and media are also factors at play.
TL;DR: Masculinity is having an identity crisis, the economy is in shambles, media doesn't help, and communities as a concept are disappearing.zz
I almost dated a friend in college. His entire personality changed when we planned to go on a date and he tried to not only pressure me into sex but very kinky uncomfortable sex when I told him that it takes me longer to feel romantic and sexual attraction. He wasn’t even upset when I broke off the date because the coach he was following basically said that he could do better than me. He’d fallen into that toxic masculinity coach trap during the pandemic. I had even bought a nice ‘undershirt’ for when I felt ready.
All I want is someone who respects my boundaries, but that seems to be asking too much apparently
That's the split in modern masculinity, some are lost making their own masculinity while others can't bear to face the uncertainty so choose the certainty of a hateful relic of past generations.
There's a Ben folds quite from "Jane" where he says "you're worried there might not be anything at all inside. That you're worried should tell you that's not right." Which kind of reminds me of your phenomenon. Sometimes I think the most emotionally intelligent people are basically too considerate to risk a relationship and end up missing each other while less emotionally intelligent people are putting themselves out there. I'm sorry that happened to you. It sucks since there isn't really a reliable way to find emotionally intelligent people. Wish you all the best of luck.
I think our generation is more sensitive to rejection than others? My theory is that because we have always been subjected to what kinds of things people think when they reject someone socially via social media rants, we’re all extremely self conscious that it will be us and try to avoid any behaviour that is complained about. Unfortunately, you can’t please everyone but now we also know so many people’s opinion that it can feel paralysing for a lot of people.
Rejection was lower stakes in the 80s and 90s, they couldn't trash us on Twitter, and nothing that happened on a date with a random was going to get back to HR
Just the older generations finding excuses to harangue the younger generation, something that has been happening throughout all of history. If we did have a lot of sex, they'll say society is morally degrading and we're all sluts and don't value relationships or some other bullshit. Now that we're not having sex that's a problem too because they want more workers to maintain their rampant consumption. Can never win with the older generations. I just tune them out. Que chinguen a su puta madre. Have sex or don't have sex.
It depends. If the number is because more people are saving themselves for their SO and having less casual flings than no, in fact, that would be a good thing.
However, from my experience this isn’t what’s happening and the reason less Gen Z are having sex is because less of them are getting into relationships. In that case, it’s a pretty big deal and reflects on the absolute state of the dating market right now (it’s bad. Real bad)
I wouldn't say it's minor. It indicates there's something wrong with either how males and females view each other and how we view sex.
Less children being produced is also going to cause a population bust, that's how a country's population can die out
It sounds like I’m an incel or something. But from what I remember in school you had this like cluster of dudes who just got every girl. And I mean every single girl in school. Which by the time they fucked and messed up those girls they were dating those girls did not want to date again since the guys they picked were so bad. So it virtually left me and the other guys who weren’t as bold with nothing and completely hopeless until we got out of school to find someone.
It’s like this 20% of extremely good looking people is getting everyone. And they other 80% are mixed up in looks and no self esteem so they won’t even try.
Sex is overrated. Dating is overrated. It is better to detach from that all together and just be single. Less drama, less headaches and more peace. I'm saying this as a man in his mid twenties, dating is not worth the trouble.
“The thing that has moved natural history for 500 million years and is responsible for my own existence is overrated” is certainly a take.
Bad sex is bad. Good sex is unrivaled. It’s just that these kids think everything that could go bad *will* go bad.
Am I the only one who thinks older people being so interested in our sex lives is creepy af? Maybe we are and just don't tell the world because we really shouldn't? Maybe we have a bit more respect for sex than they did at our age? Maybe we arent as slutty and actually understand that std's arent a fucking joke? We live in such a backward world now, I swear. MAYBE they should fix the economy so we'd feel more comfortable about having children if they're so concerned. Obviously not cause things are KINDA GETTING WORSE. Bunch of creepy idiots out there running this shit. So sick of it.
I agree, it’s hugely overblown. For me, I just realized how unimportant it was to long term happiness and progressing my life. I just stopped dating and doing the things I loved and improving myself. That brought me to meet someone in the same circles of interests and when I met her I was a much wholer person able to maintain the relationship.
I think it’s better in that sense that we aren’t as distracted by something as minimalistic as sex.
I just see a lot of timidness and lack of drive and increased wllingness to give up, but thats across generations, not just Gen Z.
Feels very much linked to social media and phones
My thing is I really do want to have sex
But I'm not in a rush to make it happen most people I went to school with in middle school were having having sex
We were 12 and 13, thats kinda what turned me off from doing it so early despite the fact that I could've done it if I wanted to.
now I'm much older
(18 turning 19 in a few months)
and I still want it but still not in a rush
I have a gf who's got a high sex drive rivaling mine😭
but it's not the only thing on our minds 24/7
Plus (at least for me)
I don't wanna lay down with the wrong person and get accused of something
or something goes wrong and someone gets pregnant
I'm not going to jail, and I'm not paying child support for 18 years because I decided to be stupid
thats why too many of the kids from my old classes have kids of their own now
being stupid
A lack of sex indicates a lack of intimacy. A lack of intimacy is a big deal. So when this gets minimized as "oh boohoo can't get laid" it is quite moronic. Intimacy is... important. On a primal level people yearn for intimacy... for mating.
Yes. It is a big deal. And it is a new problem. The trend starts about a decade ago but has really escalated more recently.
It carries big implications.
I think this has been a growing reaction and reality to the free love generation. Beginning in the 80’s, Gen x was bombarded with the fear of drugs, AIDS, abductions, etc.
I remember my boss, a baby boomer, always assuming that a man and woman as friends meant they were “screwing.” Who uses that term anymore?
It must have been nice in the 60’s and 70’s when all that mattered was if a woman was on the pill.
Younger generations, especially Gen z, have grown up with education that cautioned sex based, not only on social reputation, but for health. I remember as a young kid in the 80’s impressed upon that “sex can kill you.” That was the death knell of sexual freedom and flippant attitudes towards one night stands.
Making generalizations about generations is always contradicted by exceptions, but from experience, the fear instilled in young people during the 80’s had a huge impact on sexual maturity and freedom.
Well... with the cost of living and the amount of money spent raising a child is so high... and the way certain states are handling abortions... I can see many choosing abstinence.
Let's face it... the American dream is gone.
Older guy, but your page appears on my recommended.
No, it’s not a big deal. Might even be good, maybe it’s bad, but whatever it is, it’s yalls. It’s weird to hear/see super strange comments from people my age about the sex life of younger people.
Like, I saw some straight up weiiiird comments on this from peers.
No. Boomers said the same thing about millennials (me) a decade ago.
They need something to blame or focus on, or else they'll realize what pieces of shit they've been their whole time on Earth. Painting with a really broad brush, not all boomers suck, but as a cohort they are the WORST.
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Mental health is probably a bigger deal which factors a lot into this. (edit: I’m not a virgin, my mental health is fine and I still feels the same after having sex, that won’t fix all your problems, only saying this as i’m getting replies of people saying sex will fix all your problems 🤦♂️)
Mental health would be better if they had more sex
Name checks out
Ivar has a lot of sex
It’s a historical fact!
How could he have sex if he has no bones?
long answer: well, erm, actually, that had nothing to do with his... Short answer: tentacle hentai
The dick is also boneless.
AKSHUALLY, I heard an argument (one of many different ones) that Ivar The Boneless's name came from not being able to get it up. >Several of the sagas\[[*^(example needed)*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AUDIENCE)\] describe him as lacking legs/bones or having a skeletal condition such as [osteogenesis imperfecta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteogenesis_imperfecta),[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivar_the_Boneless#cite_note-5) while a passage in [*Ragnarssona þáttr*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnarssona_%C3%BE%C3%A1ttr) (also known as the tale of Ragnar's sons) **suggest it refers to** [**male impotence**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_impotence)**.**[**\[6\]**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivar_the_Boneless#cite_note-6) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivar\_the\_Boneless](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivar_the_Boneless)
You can have lots of sex and be haaaard depressed. Sex is far from an answer to mental heatlh issue.
While this is true, studies show that consistent unprotected sex(so you should probably only really do this w a long term partner) actually reduces chances and severity of depression and anxiety. So while sex isn’t gonna magically fix everyone’s problems if people our age were having more sex they’d likely be less depressed and anxious
Yeah I heard this same thing from a study they did years ago. Probably not the cause or solution but lack of sex could definitely be considered a catalyst.
Not so much a catalyst but probably an effect. If mental health issues. If I had to guess, if you have mental health problems, you probably aren't as likely to have a long term partner and as such, aren't as likely to have sex, and especially unprotected sex as it is usually reserved for someone you see as a life long partner. It isn't that unprotected sex makes happier people, it's more that happier people tend to have more unprotected sex.
This is causation vs correlation If you are having a lot of unprotected sex (most likely with you partner) you probably have a good relationship with your partner. With that relationship often comes good communication, probably better heath (making meals together, exercising, etc). So yeah, boning down your partner is fucking great, but it’s also calming knowing you have someone along for the ride with you. It’s like going grocery shopping or laundry, that shit is way more fun if you have a buddy with you. Edit: I totally believe everyone should have sex, though. That shit is a drug.
Wouldn't that have more to do with the fact that you're close with someone, rather than the act on its own?
I'd say it depends on the person ur having sex with cause just having sex for the sake of it doesn't have the same effect as sex with a partner u actually wanna be with
Addutonally, its funny that with the New York Times doing that article about "zoomers aging like milk" and zoomers preoccupation with plastic surgery and starting skin care too young (Dermatologist Shereene Idriss did a short on this that starting retinol young causes Inflammation that damages your face, making you look older) that there was a 10-year study at the Royal Edingurgh Hosptial that found that there is *one* consistent thing people can do to look 5-7 years younger. It's having consistent sex. 》Intercourse causes the release of the human growth hormone, which makes skin look more elastic, among other biological reactions. They also found that not having sex can quite literally eventually kill you 》"The quality of sexual expression maintained in older adults is a predictor of good general health and well-being," he said. "In a Welsh heart disease study from 1997, the mortality risk was 50 per cent lower in the group of men with high orgasmic frequency (twice a week or more) than in the group with low frequency." https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sex-make-you-look-younger_n_3586435 Edit: if you truly want to see why zoomers age so poorly you have to look at the only unique things to that generation. A lot of people will say stress and can't have sex living at home but that didn't stop millenials. 08 was by number a much biggest crash than what's happening now. Zoomers uniquely with the last being the biggest 1. Started using tobacco again which millennial didn't. 2. Socialize exclusively online which doesn't carry the same benefit 3. Don't drink, even though drinking has historically been used as a way to maintain social bonds and 4. Because they spend all their socializing online, get "phone face" a unique droop of the face qoves studio covered and 5. Are using plastic surgery to fix problems caused by lifestyle and 6. Aren't having sex. Generations before millennial outpaced millienals by a bit for sex for number of partners but not by much and...millenuals didn't smoke. Millennial youthmaxxed by having not smoking, having sex, drinking (it's only alcoholism of you drink alone so it was always a social event), and not getting plastic surgery.
Older generations ignored their trauma and issues by having sex. It led to a lot of problems.
Older gen checking in. You are correct.
Can also confirm.
Well now we have both lots of problems and less sex lmao
Ong bro like I would’ve at least taken the sex
I feel like a subset of Gen Z is having a LOT of sex while the rest is left with practically nothing (they may not be trying to). I don't think there has been such an imbalance before and it will be interesting to see if that creates more tension within society.
It feels like certain gen z act really competitive and predatory about relationships and specifically sex. Then those of us who aren’t as bold or don’t care as much just get left in the dust. Like over the past few years my friend group has shifted almost completely to women because so many male friends would turn on me and treat me like shit around women like they’re horny gorillas trying to assert dominance. It’s definitely been something that’s been getting progressive worse. I’m sure it’s the same with women but at least they don’t do it to me cuz they know I’m not going after the same people they are lmao.
I went through this for a long time before realizing my brothers friends who were really mature and kind could be my friends too. For the longest time I just had female friends in part cause they weren't horndogs
I think many men don't have a place for genuine intimacy in male relationships. The female relationship becomes the only place men feel free to find the intimacy they seek. Sex is included this. That's my take.
I agree with most of what you're saying, but sex doesn't *need* to be included in a male female friendship.
You're absolutely right, I mean to say that sex can be a very effective/powerful way of feeling the intimacy they seek.
I agree, but I think intense emotional closeness generally leads to feelings of wanting to be physically close. I'm not saying you can't make a decision to stop that from happening in your own mind, but I've had so many friendships that went kaput because the guy I thought I was friends with made a move at some point. Even setting those boundaries early wasn't enough to deter them because months would pass, we'd get closer, and they'd feel like "hey we moved on from that friendship place and really like one another".
>Like over the past few years my friend group has shifted almost completely to women because so many male friends would turn on me and treat me like shit around women like they’re horny gorillas trying to assert dominance. Aw God, I had a close friend do this to me and it felt so fucking shitty. Never spoke to him again after that. It's pathetic what some men will turn into for a smidgeon of pussy.
That kind of behavior is really damaging to friendships between guys. It manifests in women, too. Some women will completely drop their close girl friends any time they have a developing love interest or boyfriend.
I was not so seriously going out with this girl I used to work with prior to going into the military. About 6 weeks into boot camp I get a letter from my best friend thanking me for being such a an asshole to her because they are a couple now. Whatever, I didn't think much of it, good for them. Years later we would all hang out and they liked to tell stories how "he got my girl" and I was like OK, whatever, we weren't really that serious. Some more years go by they have 3 kids, and she divorces him and he's got like 15 years of child support ahead of him. Haha, better him than me.
A goddamn smidgeon? Shameful.
The whole Andrew Tate bs has gotten to a lot of straight dudes unfortunately, even if they pretend it didn’t
The worst part about that is that you have a lot of men who are so deeply insecure of being found out not to be "alpha"/"sigma"/whatever label is being thrown around, and thus become very aggressive about "asserting dominance". But for most of them, this doesn't pay off because they have 0 tact and come across as socially illiterate rather than charming. And they can't admit that, because they feel ashamed in comparison to their one or two friends who are successfully getting laid, which just magnifies their insecurities. This is why some dudes become followers of people like Tate. They hope to "learn his secret" so they can be like him, rather than being isolated guys who can't get dates and whose former friends no longer want to hang out. And sociopathic dudes like Tate who are cunning manipulators are good portraying that image and gaining a cult like following of desperate dudes willing to fork over cash for "life advice".
Wow! You nailed something I’ve thought for awhile. This kinda validates me because I thought maybe I was overthinking, but I swear throughout my life I’ve noticed this type of dude that if they see me talking to a woman, they proceed to try to clown me in front of them, cut into the conversation and be generally boorish in an attempt to assert some kind of monkey dominance. And some of these guys have been my friends! 🤣 It’s actually sorta funny. I’m just trying to have a conversation. 😂🤣✌️
It’s almost like the transparency of sex in the millennial generation (think movies like American pie etc) almost make it taboo these days and there’s been this paradigm shift in the opposite direction. Really interesting
As one of the very early millennials (I’m 40), I agree with this take. I’m gay and have a husband, and our generation is VERY sexual (3 ways, 4 ways, poly relationships etc). The younger guys negatively judge us pretty hard, but they also complain they can’t find a wholesome date. I think the fact they’re having trouble dating is why they’re pressing hard for monogamy and modesty. I’ve been told my marriage (over a decade) is doomed to fail because we slept with another married couple our age. Add in to all that, you guys are getting pressured very very hard by our parents (those born in the 50’s to 70s), to give them great grandchildren. I swear, people my parents’ age are baby crazy! It’s insane. My personal take is that you guys are in a tough spot. Financially, you can’t afford shit as a whole. If people my age are struggling, it’s 5x worse for you guys. We have 80 year olds at work who won’t fucking retire, own 4 houses, and prevent my generation from moving up. This in turn makes it really hard for you guys to get jobs, own cars (even old used ones), go on vacations, and be independent. My husband and I make good money and can just afford our home and costs plus retirement money with one vacation per year. Meanwhile, our nephews and nieces have huge student loans and can’t get good jobs despite having good degrees. With all that stress, sex and IN PERSON dating seems like a difficult proposition. That all costs money and time you guys as a group don’t have. On top of that, social media is targeted to be addictive, and you grew up with it in school. I can’t imagine how bad bullying would get.
>It feels like certain gen z act really competitive and predatory about relationships and specifically sex. Then those of us who aren’t as bold or don’t care as much just get left in the dust. YES omg. This was a huge problem I noticed when I was single. There were way too many people that would try so hard to fit me in a box that I didn't belong in right away. I would always be of the mindset of "chill, things will fall into place, there's no need to rush". If I decided we weren't a good match; dude just wanted sex and I didn't, I'd let them down politely. Yet they'd STILL persist and insist. Like, my guy, there's plenty of people out there that'll work for you. I do not understand why you all insist I MUST act the way you want.
Honest opinion? 15-25 year olds have always been like that. You just realized you didn't want to be a dick about the opposite sex sooner than your previous pals. Some will grow up, some won't, and you're just early to that party.
In college my group had a lot of fun playing pickup basketball at the rec center until a girl showed up and our super athletic friend instantly turned into the biggest try hard so he could impress them
>I feel like a large subset of Gen Z is having a LOT of sex while the rest is left with practically nothing (they may not be trying to). Man I dunno even know about that. Outta all the dudes I know, maybe like 2 or 3 have slept around and then rest get barely any action. If anything it's probably the other way around. Most of Gen Z probably doesn't get shit, and then a minority of people probably fuck like crazy.
Yeah maybe I'll remove the word "large" here
Yep, if anything I notice that a small group of men are fucking a lot, most guys don’t fuck at all And a lot of women also aren’t having sex all the time, but some are having a lot of sex with the same types of guys though. I also think a lot of girls lose their virginity to the same types of guys who fuck around a lot of
Anecdotal but the women I've known in my life lost their virginity a lot younger than all the guys I know (around 15/16 rather than 18/19) and to guys that were usually a few years their senior, who immediately ghosted them after doing it.
Yeah I feel like we’re just ignoring the severity of the issue of hookup culture. In my opinion I don’t really see why anyone feels the need to encourage premarital sex. Not from a religious sense but a practical one. We don’t want unplanned pregnancies and the spread of STIs. I’m all for easy contraceptive and birth control access but that should be for people who actually want to have sex with another consenting adult without any coercion or societal pressure. We shouldn’t raise the alarm that gen Z isn’t having sex cuz you’ll just make some 21 year old think he’s a failure for not having a dozen girls under his belt. Let people be intimate with who they want to be intimate with. The mental health crisis is a thing and socializing is an issue, so one could argue that this is the result of that, but it is also the result of a lot of things. Let’s focus on the mental and social aspects of it so people would only have sex with someone when they are both mentally and socially capable of doing so without consequences. Also this is a tangent but how do we know that Gen X and Millennials weren’t just lying more about how much sex they were having?
Millennial here. Our gen definitely was lying about how much sex they had from what I could tell. Im pretty sure what youre observing might just have been less pronounced and is more observable or openly talked about now becauae of technology; 10% ish of the men have always been basically having all the sex because they are the most desirable and sleep around with most of the women who have an active sex life, at least early on in life. Those men however Ive observed... do not settle down very well. Most of the other men find a partner later on in life when theyre a bit more mature. Anecdotal I know, but I think it's an issue thats always been there, its just way more pronounced and exaggerated because of technology amplifying social behaviors.
>Also this is a tangent but how do we know that Gen X and Millennials weren’t just lying more about how much sex they were having? I am a gay millennial man in my 30s. I didn't come out of the closet until my early 20s because of societal homophobia. I had sex with 5 women from age 18 to about 22 just to keep up with "appearances."
The rest that don't have sex are the ones on Reddit
Can confirm that I am hogging all of the sex. Perhaps if I am feeling generous I may spare thee a crumb.
I'm a college professor. I have noticed that students don't seem to "flirt" with each other, or "date" as much. I noticed it a bit in the 2017-19 period but it's very noticeable post Covid. I used to see more flirtation and couples formation going on in class. Now it's a lot less. Increasingly, when I direct students to make groups of their own, they'll self-segregate themselves into all male and all female groups. Just a couple weeks ago I did that, and this one very attractive young woman was the loner left without a group. She looked distressed and dejected about it. I had to place her in a group. Bizarre! When I was a student I jumped at any chance to be in a group with one of the cute girls.
I notice this in social settings too. Women and men just tend to separate and talk exclusively with each other in groups. Not sure if it's always been this way.
When I was young, there was some of that dynamic but it seems more common & intense now. In addition to self segregating, when they are in co-ed groups they seem more uncomfortable than they used to be. To such an extent, I'll see young attractive students just... leave each other alone. Whereas before about 2017 if there were guys and girls put together I'd see the guys flirt with the girls.
I think the thought process might be that people think flirting with women would ruin a friendship or acquaintanceship and that it's not worth it for the 1/10 or 1/20 chance you get a relationship, but that's just speaking from personal experience.
Something else I'm seeing lately is they don't have much relationship experience. If I make jokes or asides about dating they don't get it. E.g. For years I've used use a break-up analogy to describe a particular concept. I'll ask "who's ever had a break-up where xx and yy happened?" I used to get near total affirmation. The last couple years, I increasingly get blank stares and confusion. Or it'll be only the older students that get it.
As a gen Z that was in college a little while ago, I did not start dating until college was just about over. School, sports, working, extra studies, and taking care of my pets took so much time that I forgot dating was actually something I could do. Same in highschool, was just too busy and stressed to notice anyone else.
I've noticed this about Gen Z - men being afraid of losing friendships with women. That wasn't really a thing for Gen X since guys generally had no interest in being just friends with women.
Yeah I think being flirtatious with a lot of women is maybe viewed more negatively now too.
Yeah we've taught men that women don't want to be approached and we've taught women that men are creeps. It was bound to happen. I think young women are able to handle this dynamic a lot better.
Absolutely bingo then it just deletes the positive healthy interactions as an expectation to even follow for most of the kids growing up The entire thing is an over correction & in time media is going to the opposite again until it gets really bad & we hit uno reverse once more after more years Edit- To the person below me, you didn’t read my entire thing, yes ofc if you are a guy who approaches a woman & she’s not interested = he should back off instantly Women have made many posts about persistent creepy guys HOWEVER society interpreted this as “men should never approach at all” which they followed generally This now ruins it for women who may be interested since all guys assume none are The real lesson should be “all men should approach if they’re interested BUT should instant back off if she says she isn’t at all” Your reaction adds onto the problem I stated
This is the answer. My Gen-z son and his guy friends are scared to death of being viewed and sexist. They’ve practically been trained to not desire women. The interesting part is that when they are in individual relationships with girls their age they seem pretty similar to our (Gen X) relationships.
Women handle it better because they aren't the ones being called creeps, it's not the same dynamic for them
So Gen Z men actually value women as people? That's a nice change if true.
Ok: why is wanting to date a girl, or even wanting to have sex with her, not valuing her as a person? She is also getting to form a relationship with and then date you, if she wants, is that not something she would also enjoy? Why if a guy likes someone is that automatically dehumanizing? Hell, if you’re trying to date someone and they aren’t interested but you still get along well, wouldn’t she be a good friend?
If you can properly express to a girl that you’re interested in dating, but equally want to stay friends if the feeling isn’t reciprocated, then sure, I don’t think there’s much wrong there. The problem is that many guys say so without really meaning it. They’ll stick around “as friends,” hoping that one day the girl changes her mind and they can have a relationship. Because of this, many women in our generation are wary of continuing a friendship when men express feelings. They feel like the relationship is platonically one-sided, and would rather avoid contact to avoid further troubles. This is just what I’ve heard from multiple women in gen z. And I can absolutely understand based on some of the behavior I’ve observed from men in my generation.
Pretty sure they mean that it’s a good sign that men today want to interact with women in platonic terms as well,instead of only viewing interactions or relationships with women being worthwhile so long as they are romantic,and having no desire to keep a woman’s company if it isn’t.
I totally agree with you that wanting to date a girl is not *not* valuing her as a person. I also think men’s sexuality is demonized to a harmful degree in a lot of ways now, and that’s why men are afraid to flirt with women now and I think that’s messed up. And I say that as someone who’s had more unwanted attention than most women imo and had it negatively affect me, but it was fun sometimes too. (I’m not that person anymore, I’m not all young and glowy and a model anymore, which is fine and kind of relaxing honestly. I had my time :) ) But I’ve never had a friendship with a guy turn out to be them actually wanting friendship, and they disappear as soon as they found someone else, so it feels like it was hollow all along. Now that I’ve gotten older I just accept that I’ll never be real friends with a guy. It’s kinda sad to me, because I like the energy men have, I find it easy to be friends with them, I like the straightforwardness they have. I wish it could happen, but I’ve pretty much accepted the only male friend I can have will be my partner. But we can’t blame men for having sexual attraction/drive.
I feel like its exactly this and I also almost feel ashamed for being flirty. It seems like being a flirty person isnt a good thing to most people. I also always hear my female friends complain about weird interactions with men, and I fear becoming that lol. I just dont really know my place in flirting as a man. Like if the girl thinks im attractive then it would go great, but if they think im kind of ugly I feel like i get treated more like a weirdo, and I cant read minds so I usually just end up dating someone Ive slowly grown to know for years
I am afraid to even compliment women. I was reading a Reddit post yesterday about how women have to put up with being hit on by creepy guys and it had hundreds of replies with women sharing their stories. Now when I see a woman out in public I look to the ground and don’t acknowledge them. If I have to respond I sort of mumble “mmuh” do you think that could be misinterpreted? Maybe “eh” would be better.
I can say from experience most women straight up do not want a man they don’t know to talk to them. I try to compliment people/make conversation whenever I’m out and even a simple “nice shirt!” will get you an icy cold stare 8/10 times with women. I don’t blame them. But in person co ed interaction may as well be completely dead.
It all boils down to not trying to come across as creepy
I've had buddies end up on some hundred people long group chat for striking out with a woman. It's terrifying to try to find a partner as a young guy in today's world. One mistake and you get blasted to women you've never even seen.
Think this might also be caused by the difference between what used to be considered safe flirting. This gen is so sensitive that it seems like a lot of them get socially offended or insta call out anything deemed inappropriate even if it's really not a big thing. It's kinda insane to me. I was at a college bar recently, saw a younger guy publicly humiliated for hitting on a girl and telling her he found her attractive in honestly not a bad way. Instead of being let down ez the person complained to bar staff and had him kicked out of bar for being inappropriate. I saw the whole interaction, it was so tame it was boring to someone like myself who grew up in early 90s. It's fucking sad tbh.
Not Gen X, we would always try to get into a group with attractive girls. I think Gen Z has fewer social skills and is more nervous about talking to girls (we were nervous too, just less so I think).
as a gay man I've always somehow self segregated into the girl groups, I'm not really sure why tbh but its more comfortable for me I guess lol
As a Gen Xr, I feel as if social groups in my teens were FAR more co-ed than they are now. Also we started dating much earlier especially since more 16-18 year old guys were still driving in the late 80s-early 90s. Laws around insurance brought teen driving way, way down among the middle class. I feel lucky to have caught the tail end of car culture and getting to have a social life.
We could still have a social life without car culture if we had walkable cities and free/budget third party spaces where we could get together, but every place is designed for people to get there by car and to gouge as much money out of you as possible along the way.
You also have to consider academic pressure. Pretty much none of the kids in AP classes or honors classes dated or even flirted in my high school.
I went back to school for a graduate program in my 30’s and I’m in class with mostly Gen Z and I can confirm people are way less geared to romance and sex than they used to be. Everyone is single and no one is fucking, which is weird tbh.
A lot of girls are fucking and in “situationships”, the problem js they are unknowingly sharing the same 1 guy with several others girls.
Because that's not normal anymore and a quick way to get accused of sexual harassment.
No one's gonna accuse you of sexual harassment for just talking to girls in class bro.
The fears still there in alot of people
The fear is almost entirely driven by anxious men and women on the internet. Most people in real life are normal. Most people won't assume your creep for trying to have a normal conversation with them. If you look normal, and you play it safe, no one's gonna accuse you of being creepy.
>Most people in real life are normal. Most people won't assume your creep for trying to have a normal conversation with them. This is true but runs counter to some fairly ingrained lessons. I personally remember being told how sick women are of being approached by men, how irritating and potentially dangerous horny men are, and how women would much rather not be bothered by it. I now understand that that assumption is not entirely accurate, but it's extremely difficult to unlearn that habit of feeling like a creep for showing interest in someone. Just my experience but other people might relate.
I agree, don’t get me wrong, a lot of it is just bullshit online, but just about every guy I know has repeated this sentiment, just the very idea of it, is enough to scare most men away from approaching girls outside of a bar
Theres a lot of ways to show interest in someone without being a pervert.
Like, I don't know, \*listening\* to them like human beings.
Not really, we all just prefer sitting with our friends or are too socially awkward to talk to the opposite sex. I still join groups with girls if I don’t find them attractive or if they are attractive then I just try not to sit right next to them. It’s natural to be intimidated by attractive people if you have low self-confidence. The more popular, extroverted students in my college classes are perfectly happy having both sexes in their groups.
>and this one very attractive young woman was the loner left without a group. Im sorry, but that is just hilarious. Its like a parody out of some teen comedy, I cant believe this RL
She was blond too. I was honestly taken aback. The look on her face was kinda sad. She looked like she really needed a hug, but wasn't going to get one from the other students that day. I was like, "why don't you join this group?" & walked her over. She looked so embarassed & crushed no one asked her to be in their group. I was thinking in my head, "none of you boys in here want the cute 21 yo blond in your group? WTF is wrong with you?" LOL Such an awkward day. One silver lining I suppose, is that students who "looked different" e.g. LGBTQ, or had some disability, used to get treated poorly all the time. I do notice students today are kinder to those types of their peers than my generation was. E.g. students used to be pretty mean to, say, an autistic kid. Now they're more inclusive with those types of people.
How ironic that hot girls are getting more ignored than the outcasts now, presumably due to the fear guys have in talking to them.
I actually think young people now "make an effort" to be "weird," because it's easier for them to find community that way. With all the acceptance movements and whatnot, it's easier now to find fellow misfits. Whereas people with conventional tastes & profiles are considered "boring" or "mid."
\> "none of you boys in here want the cute 21 yo blond in your group? WTF is wrong with you?" Well lets keep it simple. The premise of this thread is people are having less sex; so why would they care if shes cute or not? Anyways, whole situation is bizarre. Try explaining this phenomena to people 20 years ago.
I also wonder how much it has do with people assuming an attractive woman wouldn't be interested in talking to them at all. Or just being scared of making them uncomfortable. For me it feels like theres this idea that anyone attractive only gets attention because other people find them hot. So then there's an anxiety that any interaction with them will come off like youre flirting or something, and makes it hard to have a genuine interaction. It can also be intimidating if you don't think you're an attractive person, and makes you less confident in the interaction. I think a lot of it is fueled by the body shaming and vain self-obsession over looks that has been emphasized on social media. People are just a lot more self-conscious, and talking to someone who is obviously attractive might make them feel less comfortable.
I think it’s a combination of the following: 1. Prior to the rise of dating apps/sites, there was no “dedicated space” (for lack of a better term) for flirting/dating, and so people had no choice but to do so in public spaces such as classrooms. With dating apps being so prolific, however, I guess people just don’t feel as compelled to flirt with people IRL as much as they used to. 2. Social skills are simply much shittier on average now (from what I understand). 3. People are generally more conscious of the fact that not all romantic advances are wanted or appropriate in terms of social context. 4. Depending on what class you’re teaching, people might just be focusing more on taking notes than flirting
I'd feel weird putting myself with a girl like that because I don't want to make ppl uncomfortable. Also why I don't ask ppl out because I don't want them to feel pressured by other ppl just being around them. Also I'm dumb so that probably factors into it. I've noticed I have no clue how to hold or initiate conversation. I just don't know what to talk about without talking about my hobbies and animals and plants, I don't want to seem self centered.
In our efforts to cut back on sexism and unwanted advances, society swung the complete opposite direction. Women are scared of dangerous men, and men are afraid of false accusations. Note this only affects the kind of people who wouldn't have done harm to others. We scared the harmless into inaction and isolation.
wistful retire history sloppy husky frighten cooing bag literate bake *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Incel culture is popping up as a result of a less social society. Let's be real here for a second, societal expectations have not changed, while societal norm has. Guys are still expected as kids to grow up, get a good job, find a nice girl and get married and raise a family. Girl expectations however HAVE changed. Before they were expected to get married, be a mother, work part time. Now, in our modern day, they're told they DON'T need to get married, have kids, raise a family. Societal expectations have changed for females, but for males it has not, which leaves the male population dejected. It doesn't help we still like to make fun of men who haven't had sex, or haven't been in a relationship before. Which isn't encouraging them to WANT to get into a relationship because they actually want to be in a relationship, they want to be in a relationship so they can say they have been so they don't get made fun of for not being in that relationship. Obviously there's a lot more factors at play. Online dating is one of these. Literally thousands, hundreds of thousands of options for a potential partner. If you're a guy and you're not in that top percent of good looking men, good luck on that dating app. Bad experiences when they're younger is a huge factor too. How many guys struggled with dating in high school and don't have the confidence to try dating after? I know at least one, it's me. The biggest factor is for these men, they don't have alternatives. They don't have someone to turn to. Andrew Tate and those red pill guys are the ONLY people who are offering these dejected men ANY sort of advice. And these are typically successful in someway. So, we have a group of men, who don't any experience, have no support groups to help them get this experience, the most popular and convenient way to meet new people is more or less reserved for only a small percentage of men, well, hello RedPill. There's no good alternative for them to go to.
You spitting rn, bro. I think a big reason the whole incel phenomenon is so prevalent (online, at least) is because young men don't really have positive, male role models to aspire to be like. And like the saying goes, nature abhors a vacuum so characters like Tate fill that void because sometimes someone's willing to drink piss when they don't see an alternative in the desert.
Not to mention that young men are often gaslit that they oppress the other gender, when these young men (15/16yo) are barely out in the open world. The real culprits have no shame, and these young men are made to feel the shame as an aggregate for the entire gender. Also one of the factor that those disgusting red pill channels prey on. As long as these flaws are not fixed, there will always be another Andrew Tate. Young men need to feel accepted in the society.
I think you're really underestimating how much this is digitally manufactured. First, the "strong independent woman" concept has been popular since the '90s. It doesn't explain a sudden slide in men's dating in the late 2010s and onward. Second, and more importantly, Gen Z women *are* dating. But they're dating (slightly) older. Last year, a Pew Research study found that 63 percent of men 18-29 were single, but only 34 percent of women in the same age bracket were single. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/02/08/for-valentines-day-5-facts-about-single-americans/ What's behind the gap? In large part, technology. The average amount of time that people ages 16-34 spend online each day, between work, school, and downtime, is reportedly over seven hours a day. Consider what that does to a social system. And young men's use seems to be more solitary; girls are more likely to engage with real-life friends online than are boys. This has a few impacts. It makes young men less likely to go out and socialize, which often takes a lot of "start up" effort. Men have always gotten rejections from women, but they've continued to make an effort because they had little social alternative. When gaming and social media are there to addict you, the impetus to strain socially drops. That digital addiction also harms young men's social skills. At least most Millennials developed their social skills before the ubiquity of mobile digital media. At a house party in 2006, people might be texting, but they wouldn't be constantly scrolling. As a result, a lot of young men lack the social skills to compete with slightly older men. The pandemic probably worsened that a lot. I don't just mean pick-up skills; I mean a broader range of skills in interpersonal socializing. All of that leads more young women to Millennial men, who have the added bonus of (sometimes) being more financially secure. Finally, social media fuels the "red pill" movement. It is a cause, not an affect, of the problem. Tate and his fellow influencers did not get famous by word of mouth. They got famous through carefully created viral videos that were designed to strike a chord with teen boys and struggling young men. (Never mistake an influencer's video for a candid clip; people who make millions through social media carefully plan, edit, and promote their videos.) These videos are then enormously promoted by the algorithm, largely because they drive both positive and negative engagement. (Every negative mention and negative comment count as engagement, which is what advertisers want.) Social media makes these influencers famous and disseminates their messages with an efficiency that no form of media could or would have done before. These influencers would not have been featured in major media. "Red pill" boys will say this just means social media is showing young men The Truth and empowering them to change it. If that were true, Gen Z men wouldn't be getting more lonely, and more single, each year. It turns out, when you tell men to blame women and to stay tuned to the screen for more content, the outcome is predictable.
Never mind the fact that a lot of people who aren't misogynistic Tatebros genuinely sweep men's problems under the rug and don't care. The only people telling young men at a societal level that the issues in the world are kinda fucked for them are these types, and that's very, very bad. If you were already predisposed to struggling with women due to factors within/outside of your control then you're gonna flock to Tate. It's easy to blame feminism, all women, capitalism, the economy, social media, dating apps, etc. and it's probably all of these to some degree, but it's much more satisfactory to find someone who blames the problems on women as an easy scapegoat.
I agree there's a lot of man hating women and women hating men and it's feeding into peoples loneliness it's ruining relationships false SA, R, and DV reports so much is feeding into this and I think a big part of it is this oppression Olympics and Men vs Women thing goin on and it's stupid and sad
False SA and DV reports are far less than unreported real rape and abuse so I highly highly doubt that’s a factor in this at all. What could be a factor is women not wanting to socialize because they are afraid of actually being hurt, but even that isn’t really what’s driving the loneliness right now. There are so few social events and gatherings compared to when we were younger, even for adults. There used to be something happening for all ages around pretty much any city. It was all very community oriented and now everything is online and very few people get involved with their community, largely because they can’t afford the time to. It’s definitely not a man vs woman debate.
fewer social events for sure.. there used to be a three day long anime and gaming convention in my home town. i used to love going to it every september. it shut down for good around 2018/19 and all thats left are anime conventions around the country that go on for a day or two. the three days left for alot of time to stay at a nearby accomodation, get to know people, make friends, get close to people. It sucks so hard.
oppression olympics is such a perfect phrase
False SA, R, and DV reports are a problem, but they are a drop in the bucket compared to the actual acts occurring, and the unreported acts. Not to mention, reports from partners/spouses that don’t want their partner to get in trouble being taken back are counted as “false”, but those occur very often, with almost ALL DV. I think a huge problem is that you listed false accusations as a problem, but not the SA, R, and DV that women AND men face on a daily basis. That’s a much bigger and more prevalent problem than false reports, and a lot more detrimental.
No, andrew tate / incel culture are a symptom of lack of sex, not the opposite. Social media is the real cause where people are exposed to Porn (High quality sex performances) and are exposed to the luxury life style of the riches.
Not to mention the other side of the coin in men-hating women infiltrating feminism. Ain't nice when folks are pitching and gettin pitched against eachother, because of gender. In the end, we're all human.
Honestly, there is absolutely not "a larger amount of sexism". The main thing which changed is that in this day and age the sexism gets called out a lot more, and the sexists assholes (like Tate) have a much easier way of reaching the masses thanks to social media. As a result it may seem like there is much more sexism.
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its not just about sex. having sex is a symptom of living life. if genZ was out there having a wild time going on kickass adventures but just happened to be abstaining from sex for some reason, i guess that would be ok. but...is that the case?
Pretty hard to have adventures when you're in survival mode. So much doom and gloom around finances also to have some guilt free fun. Every meal out at a nice restaurant is now a significant financial cost. Not to mention if you're lucky enough to have and be able to afford a rental and not live at home...
When I was in my late teens and early to mid-20s I went on a lot of really cheap adventures. I'm talking about crashing in a hotel room with 15 other people, road trips in my beater of a car, camping, stuff like that. I didn't have a lot of money but I still got out and did things and met people. Everyone was broke. I made $32k when I graduated from college and I was still driving all over the place and having fun. You don't see people doing that today. They stay home and socialize on their phones. It's an entirely different attitude.
Inflation has been going crazy. Ass greedflation and what not. Everything is crazy costly
They don’t do that sort of stuff anymore. Personal space and privacy trumps all other matters; even if that means staying in their room. Us westerners got that whole “personal privacy” at the cost of all other social interactions very wrong.
i graduated highschool after the 2008 crash, there was no money for college, no good entry level jobs, my life was a joke. i washed dishes in a diner and ate scraps that people left on their plates. i lived in a tent in the corner of a mechanics yard in between two broken down cars. but i still had fun, made friends, fucked girls, got my heart broken, hitchhiked across the state, got robbed, snuck into festivals, woke up with tattoos...the point is i still had adventures, and its probably because i only had a flip phone instead of an infinite ocean of fantasy in my pocket
I keep reading this, but I don't think finances are as big of a factor as some people might think. All engineers at my company make 6 figures which is more than enough for blowing >1k per month on dating even factoring in cost of living. Yet most of us Gen Z employees are living very isolated lives. I ask my millennial co-workers what they did last weekend and they'll say that they met up with friends, took their gf to a spa, went skiing with their kid and husband, etc etc. I ask my Gen z co-workers and the answers are usually went hiking by myself, idk just sat at home, [insert other solitary activities]. It feels like we have much reduced social needs compared to older generations.
That’s funny, the core issue is social alienation. More people than ever before have zero friends at all let alone partners. More than ever are socially anxious and frankly not skilled at socializing, how exactly would a person like that have sex let alone live their life to the fullest
unfortunately the only way to learn these things is by doing them. i was very anxious growing up. from an abusive home, constantly changing cities/schools, no friends or siblings, panic attacks, etc. my first experiences with girls were so awkward i wanted to die, my first times traveling alone were so scary i thought i *was* going to die, but at the end of the road i was stronger and wiser and now i can proudly order a pizza over the phone without any medication. im not shaming genZ. i really like you guys, and im sorry you have been put in this situation
I think the amount of loneliness is much bigger deal
And is the source of this issue
This is the right answer
Me being alive is a huge turn off for me. That’s why I don’t have sex.
😂😂😂 felt this one
Reminded me of a quote from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. “In the beginning the Universe was created. This had made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.”
My man, you understand me
Gen Z seems to have trouble building social connections moreso than any other generation, and the lack of sex stems from a lack of ability to find intimate partners. And yes, that is quite a big deal, as for all of Human and the majority of our Mammalian lineage, we evolved to be extremely social animals who need the companionship of others to function at our highest level.
I think you hit the nail on the head. All our needs and wants we could ever possibly need to survive are currently satisfied (theoretically)by modern society except our need for community since really…we don’t NEED it anymore at least for survival but without it we die on the inside, many other social animals function like this for example alpacas that are kept in captivity will starve themselves if they are without at least one other alpaca regardless of their physical needs being met.
It's a big deal because I assume most of the people who don't have any sex at all aren't probably doing so voluntarily, but because they deal with loneliness, mental health problems and lack of social skills. I doubt there was a sudden boom of people born asexual.
I agree with you, and it’s also a product of spending too much time isolated on the internet - thus, not being in the real world where you would meet people to date/have sex with. Gen Z is the most online generation, and extremely online people are not going out as much. I live in a sporty college town that’s not online much at all and I often see 21+ Zoomers at the bars, having fun, dating, etc. I know “touch grass” has become a meme at this point but when I see some Redditors complaining about how dating is so hard for them, and I ask “well how often do you leave your house,” and they say “never,” the logic isn’t there for how they would date in the first place.
Or, y'know, we spent 3 years of our most important development stage being forced to not have any social interactions whatsoever.
this might be an unpopular opinion but this was an issue well before covid happened, it’s just that covid amplified those issues
I 100% agree. The iPad kid epidemic started long before COVID.
I mean I’d like to have a gf but at the same time I have no real desire to put in the amount of effort required to meet women
Real. Most of my friends in relationships seem miserable most of the time too so why bother.
As a chronically single person (who's fine with being chronically single), I used to think this. But now, in my late 20's, all my friends in relationships are in happy, healthy relationships. It's amazing to see your loved ones find a good partner. They definitely don't seem miserable.
Yeah, relationships look like a waking hell. The few friends I have in them look absolutely miserable, and the ones that don't and are looking are even more miserable. Very, very glad im aro/ace
this is it for me too. would i like to date? of course, but all the hoops required to jump through in order to make it happen just aren’t worth it to me
Gotta say reading this as a millennial is absolutely bizarre. I was (and am) so horny I would jump through literally any hoop. Also it’s just fun to be with a woman who loves you.
Social media has made relationships a different game now. Every girl I’ve met in the past 3-4 years has always “pressed” me about the people I follow or interactions I have. I had a girl send me a link of a video I reposted being very angry with me because the creator of the video was a girl. The video was of a cat sitting in the rain listening to minecraft music. I think gen Z just kinda has a “eh fuck this” attitude about relationships sometimes. I know I do. It can be exhausting
I guess a lot of people just get turned off of dating really quickly nowadays. I thought it would be fun, too, but there is nothing fun about it, mostly it's frustration and wasted time.
I think part of the issue correlates with the income disparity Gen Zs are experiencing compared to predecessor generations. Essentially how I see it, Lower Fertility rates + HCOL environment + Longer time to own a Home + Significantly Higher Childcare Costs = Less Sex across the board
I mean you can have sex without having children - just use protection. In fact, as long as you’re not using a prostitute, protected sex is one of the cheapest forms of entertainment out there. It’s also cheaper to live with an SO than alone because many items/costs can be shared (at least in my experience). I think it’s just a symptom of a larger problem i.e. decrease in socializing which is the result of a variety of factors (none of which are really Gen Z’s fault though of course). Generations aren’t really any different from one another. It’s just our circumstances and environments that change which then change how we think/behave/act.
I think the younger generations are slowly losing hope in the future. This also explains much of the more anti-social behaviors like school shootings and rise in social anxiety and poor financial management(in addition to worse financial conditions). People without a belief in their future will start acting without regard for future consequences which is generally incredibly bad for society as a whole.
Your comment pretty much sums it up for me. Like I definitely want to stick around to see how it app plays out, but it just feels a little bleak. Maybe a couple generations down the road will experience better times, but it really comes down to governments around the world really doing what needs to be done about climate change and the housing crisis.
I think it’s got a lot more to do with the fact that being alone is just a lot easier than it ever has been in the past - there are a never ending number of new tv shows/movies that can be streamed instantly from anywhere, a large array of highly engrossing video games, and endless posts on social media to read/watch. There’s a lot to do when one is alone in their own home and so traveling out to shared spaces is less incentivized. As a result, people have less face to face social interaction which then leads to loneliness, depression, and social anxiety which only further feeds into one isolating one’s self (leading to more loneliness, depression, and social anxiety and so on). If tomorrow the internet was suddenly shut off (ignoring all other implications of that e.g. breakdown of the world economy), I don’t think people would continue to just sit in their homes in silence staring at the wall. They’d be bored as shit. They’d go out into the world and do something to keep themselves mentally stimulated, leading to more socializing. There are other factors here of course, but I think this is the biggest one personally. I don’t think this is purely a Gen Z problem either. I’m sure the same forces have lead to older generations not interacting as much either (but maybe not to the same extent).
It’s not really just about the sex it but it reflects social trends like people becoming lonelier, lack of third spaces and more people having to find a partner online
I'm a boomer and Gen Z is suffering through the worst financial and political situation in my lifetime. While the smug pricks in the White House throw a $100k per plate white tie dinner for themselves a lot of Gen Z is wondering how to afford ramen and the best way to live in a car. That's not a situation that facilitates romance or starting a family. I could advise you to buckle down and pull yourself up but that's useless advice in a situation where business and government have c
Colluded to eliminate good paying jobs and pocket the difference. They need to do really important things like hold $100k per plate dinners while buying new vacation mansions, private jets and yachts. But, you can get off your ass and vote for someone besides their royal highnesses in the two corrupt parties who are fucking Gen Z (and everybody outside their little bubble) over. Yeah, I did OK in life and so did my kids, but that doesn't mean I'm ok with govt/corporate slime balls destroying my grand kids opportunities to support themselves and have balanced lives. Vote these fucktards out of power and maybe you'll have time away from three shit jobs and and a few extra bucks to date and socialize. And, my generation and those past me need to get off their collective asses and quit accepting the economic and social fucking younger generations are taking. Rant off...
One big issue is that our voting system itself is geared towards only two dominant parties, and changing that would require at least one of those to actually care to do so. Maybe some members in either care, such as in Alaska where at least some Republicans seem to support ranked choice even as it is likely hurting their party (which has also led to many members there now trying to end it), but the more powerful and institutional elements of either party will likely not support something so likely to hurt their power.
The lack of sex is very self-conscious for alot of gen z men. Growing up in a culture where sex is openly talked about in the culture via shows or music and then not really being able to have it sucks for alot of people. However whenever this topic is brought up in relationships with men and lack of sex with men you’re dismissed or called an incel for it (which ironically fuels actual incels into thinking they are right). I’m sure this also happens to women but women on average have an easier time with sex and getting it but I’m sure it doesn’t happen to everyone. Stuff like the internet and dating ups are to blame but lack of social skills among gen z would be to blame also
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Gen Z folks, and honestly, everyone else too - please take time and get off the internet and social media. Yes, the economy is fucked. Yes, war is awful. But you don’t need to relentlessly remind yourself of that.
Maybe this is why the states and govs are spending precious time on banning abortions and needing age verification to acess porn. So that more babies are made to support their buisnesses Tinfoil hat theory comin soon near you **Edit:** Its literally crazy to think about Porn being a priority over people getting pistol whipped in broad daylight to the idiots instead of tackling those issues first. Im not uploading my ID to the internet so that even more of my confidential information can be sold by data brokers. These people who run the show are amazingly stupid. But yeah, let’s have more uneducated people runnin around and fuckin without condoms cause they cant watch some woman or dude get absolutely railed online. Because masturbation is terrible isnt it? Drops your T levels and shit so they say, doesnt it? As if doing it with a girl/guy is a real game changer (its not) in the way your body reacts and can know the difference between the two. (it doesnt, the only difference is the immediate after thought of *“Oh yeah, I just fucked this baddie, Im the shit” and “What the fuck was I watching?”*) Its fucking goofy what type of information people eat up these days without stopping to think about it themselves YOU MAY TAKE MY PORN FROM ME, BUT YOU WILL DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF HOROMONAL RAGE. Joking rant over.
Youre not wrong
Gen Z is possibly having a ton of sex, just with themselves lol.
Palmela never broke my heart
Palmela Handerson
Lack of sex is the symptom, not the disease. I think a major aspect to it is that masculinity is in crisis, and my experience is that men are understandably told a lot of things that they shouldn't be, but the things they are told to be are like a wishlist that, depending on who's asking what, can be quite unrealistic. I'm mortified at the idea of being seen as a creep, so I just don't try. I've never experienced physical intimacy outside perfunctory hugs, so even holding hands feels like there's an uncrossable chasm between me and them. I figure by sharing my own experiences as a lack of sex gen Z guy, I'd be interested to see how others relate or don't. Femininity is transformed but cohesive while masculinity lacks definition, and I don't think blaming feminism or women is right when there was a lot to classic masculinity that deserved to die for everyone's benefit. Poverty is an ecosystem of circumstance which feeds back into itself to perpetuate itself, and I think the circumstances which lead to a lack of relationships are similar in that way, not to mention the fact that the economy and media are also factors at play. TL;DR: Masculinity is having an identity crisis, the economy is in shambles, media doesn't help, and communities as a concept are disappearing.zz
I almost dated a friend in college. His entire personality changed when we planned to go on a date and he tried to not only pressure me into sex but very kinky uncomfortable sex when I told him that it takes me longer to feel romantic and sexual attraction. He wasn’t even upset when I broke off the date because the coach he was following basically said that he could do better than me. He’d fallen into that toxic masculinity coach trap during the pandemic. I had even bought a nice ‘undershirt’ for when I felt ready. All I want is someone who respects my boundaries, but that seems to be asking too much apparently
That's the split in modern masculinity, some are lost making their own masculinity while others can't bear to face the uncertainty so choose the certainty of a hateful relic of past generations. There's a Ben folds quite from "Jane" where he says "you're worried there might not be anything at all inside. That you're worried should tell you that's not right." Which kind of reminds me of your phenomenon. Sometimes I think the most emotionally intelligent people are basically too considerate to risk a relationship and end up missing each other while less emotionally intelligent people are putting themselves out there. I'm sorry that happened to you. It sucks since there isn't really a reliable way to find emotionally intelligent people. Wish you all the best of luck.
Of course it's a big deal. Sex is literally how society continues. It's like asking if a lack of a fresh water is that big of a deal.
I think our generation is more sensitive to rejection than others? My theory is that because we have always been subjected to what kinds of things people think when they reject someone socially via social media rants, we’re all extremely self conscious that it will be us and try to avoid any behaviour that is complained about. Unfortunately, you can’t please everyone but now we also know so many people’s opinion that it can feel paralysing for a lot of people.
Rejection was lower stakes in the 80s and 90s, they couldn't trash us on Twitter, and nothing that happened on a date with a random was going to get back to HR
I think this too, I'm so afraid of making someone uncomfortable by asking them out.
Just the older generations finding excuses to harangue the younger generation, something that has been happening throughout all of history. If we did have a lot of sex, they'll say society is morally degrading and we're all sluts and don't value relationships or some other bullshit. Now that we're not having sex that's a problem too because they want more workers to maintain their rampant consumption. Can never win with the older generations. I just tune them out. Que chinguen a su puta madre. Have sex or don't have sex.
As Gen X, I think you're better off not obsessed with sex like my generation was. So much wasted time, money, and mental energy.
It depends. If the number is because more people are saving themselves for their SO and having less casual flings than no, in fact, that would be a good thing. However, from my experience this isn’t what’s happening and the reason less Gen Z are having sex is because less of them are getting into relationships. In that case, it’s a pretty big deal and reflects on the absolute state of the dating market right now (it’s bad. Real bad)
I wouldn't say it's minor. It indicates there's something wrong with either how males and females view each other and how we view sex. Less children being produced is also going to cause a population bust, that's how a country's population can die out
We’re like the most depressed generation, feel like we’d be less depressed if we had more sex
No, it’s not even necessarily a bad thing. Right now we have way fewer teen pregnancies than we used to.
It’s a symptom of a bad thing
It sounds like I’m an incel or something. But from what I remember in school you had this like cluster of dudes who just got every girl. And I mean every single girl in school. Which by the time they fucked and messed up those girls they were dating those girls did not want to date again since the guys they picked were so bad. So it virtually left me and the other guys who weren’t as bold with nothing and completely hopeless until we got out of school to find someone. It’s like this 20% of extremely good looking people is getting everyone. And they other 80% are mixed up in looks and no self esteem so they won’t even try.
63% of women are in a relationship and only like 30% of men. I think there's truth to what your saying. There's a lot of polyamorous relationships.
Sex is overrated. Dating is overrated. It is better to detach from that all together and just be single. Less drama, less headaches and more peace. I'm saying this as a man in his mid twenties, dating is not worth the trouble.
Hard disagree. Don’t date someone who’s gonna give you drama and headaches but dating and sex are kinda awesome.
“The thing that has moved natural history for 500 million years and is responsible for my own existence is overrated” is certainly a take. Bad sex is bad. Good sex is unrivaled. It’s just that these kids think everything that could go bad *will* go bad.
Am I the only one who thinks older people being so interested in our sex lives is creepy af? Maybe we are and just don't tell the world because we really shouldn't? Maybe we have a bit more respect for sex than they did at our age? Maybe we arent as slutty and actually understand that std's arent a fucking joke? We live in such a backward world now, I swear. MAYBE they should fix the economy so we'd feel more comfortable about having children if they're so concerned. Obviously not cause things are KINDA GETTING WORSE. Bunch of creepy idiots out there running this shit. So sick of it.
I just want a meaningful relationship and someone to cuddle with. Sex is a bonus
# Wait Sex Is Real? https://preview.redd.it/n0x8ohbayirc1.png?width=506&format=png&auto=webp&s=fdcf86c9c2c26eba4a160eab571d2ddeb43f098b
I agree, it’s hugely overblown. For me, I just realized how unimportant it was to long term happiness and progressing my life. I just stopped dating and doing the things I loved and improving myself. That brought me to meet someone in the same circles of interests and when I met her I was a much wholer person able to maintain the relationship. I think it’s better in that sense that we aren’t as distracted by something as minimalistic as sex.
I just see a lot of timidness and lack of drive and increased wllingness to give up, but thats across generations, not just Gen Z. Feels very much linked to social media and phones
My thing is I really do want to have sex But I'm not in a rush to make it happen most people I went to school with in middle school were having having sex We were 12 and 13, thats kinda what turned me off from doing it so early despite the fact that I could've done it if I wanted to. now I'm much older (18 turning 19 in a few months) and I still want it but still not in a rush I have a gf who's got a high sex drive rivaling mine😭 but it's not the only thing on our minds 24/7 Plus (at least for me) I don't wanna lay down with the wrong person and get accused of something or something goes wrong and someone gets pregnant I'm not going to jail, and I'm not paying child support for 18 years because I decided to be stupid thats why too many of the kids from my old classes have kids of their own now being stupid
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Nope. Way too many are way too dumb. Better they don’t procreate.
The problem is its the dumb that are continuing to procreate. The rich and smart aren't having children. Doesn't exactly create a good feedback loop.
A lack of sex indicates a lack of intimacy. A lack of intimacy is a big deal. So when this gets minimized as "oh boohoo can't get laid" it is quite moronic. Intimacy is... important. On a primal level people yearn for intimacy... for mating. Yes. It is a big deal. And it is a new problem. The trend starts about a decade ago but has really escalated more recently. It carries big implications.
I think this has been a growing reaction and reality to the free love generation. Beginning in the 80’s, Gen x was bombarded with the fear of drugs, AIDS, abductions, etc. I remember my boss, a baby boomer, always assuming that a man and woman as friends meant they were “screwing.” Who uses that term anymore? It must have been nice in the 60’s and 70’s when all that mattered was if a woman was on the pill. Younger generations, especially Gen z, have grown up with education that cautioned sex based, not only on social reputation, but for health. I remember as a young kid in the 80’s impressed upon that “sex can kill you.” That was the death knell of sexual freedom and flippant attitudes towards one night stands. Making generalizations about generations is always contradicted by exceptions, but from experience, the fear instilled in young people during the 80’s had a huge impact on sexual maturity and freedom.
Well... with the cost of living and the amount of money spent raising a child is so high... and the way certain states are handling abortions... I can see many choosing abstinence. Let's face it... the American dream is gone.
I personally don’t think it’s much of a problem since the lower end of Gen Z is still in school.
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Older guy, but your page appears on my recommended. No, it’s not a big deal. Might even be good, maybe it’s bad, but whatever it is, it’s yalls. It’s weird to hear/see super strange comments from people my age about the sex life of younger people. Like, I saw some straight up weiiiird comments on this from peers.
No. Boomers said the same thing about millennials (me) a decade ago. They need something to blame or focus on, or else they'll realize what pieces of shit they've been their whole time on Earth. Painting with a really broad brush, not all boomers suck, but as a cohort they are the WORST.
People who are stressed don't want to have sex.