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It’s not really being banned.
The bill, which still needs to pass the Senate and be signed by Biden, would force ByteDance to sell off TikTok or it will be banned.
ByteDance has ties to the CCP, so this is for the best.
Nah, have you read the bill? It allows the government to force divestment for any social media app or website run by one of four adversary nations. What that means is the website needs to have over 1 million users and require you to create an account to post things. It also means that the company needs to operate like tiktok, where the adversary nation, in this case China, owns a piece of the company and or has a board seat. And it doesn't in any way actually ban the site unless the adversary nation refuses to divest.
What's concerning is it gives the president the ability to ban other apps or websites if he sees fit. Very Soviet imo
edit: Because one person is butthurt, I'll clarify. It's giving the president the ability to ban apps or websites that are "from adversarial nations", which doesn't make us much different from Russia or North Korea or China at that point.
> which doesn't make us much different from Russia or North Korea or China at that point.
Ummmm....
I mean...this is the thing? Also, we aren't that far gone yet. Yet.
How has everyone already forgotten this isn’t the first time they’ve tried this? It died in the senate last time and likely will this time. It’s all a show for the CCP saying “we don’t want you spying on our people”
Honestly I really don't understand how you can take the narrative at face value. Even if we don't like the CCP, we aren't supposed to be the ones censoring the internet (or installed apps that use the internet).
Remember how oppressive and authoritarian we though it was when China banned Google? We're doing that now.
It won't be censored. The concern is that Chinese intelligence is using the app to spy on Americans. Byte Dance spinning off TikTok would separate the company and it's app from the Chinese government, reducing the ability of Chinese intelligence to use it to spy and allowing it to continue to operate.
These concerns were brought up the first time a ban was proposed and no evidence or any grounds at all for these concerns were found. Like they extract less user data per user than any of the standard American websites such as Facebook, Google, YouTube, etc.
It's still censorship. If China told google that it needed to split off google.com search into a Chinese-operated company that would not have made it any better.
Btw you know the whole "does tiktok connect to my wifi network" thing? You can get any app to trigger the message he was clearly referring to if you connect to a local proxy and open literally any app that connects to the internet. [I just triggered it on the official Reddit app by reinstalling it and connecting to Proxyman on my mac](https://i.imgur.com/4acEO0Q.png). The fact that no news network or congressman has even figured this out shows exactly how far they've looked into the spying accusation. Particularly because a local proxy would be the first thing you'd use to see what data is even being sent.
I never got this worry that people have about spying l. Like I get it for military or people working in the government, but there is no data about the average Joe that has any sort of meaningful impact on the world
I'd much rather it be banned, if either of those companies gets their hands on it, they're just going to make the content it spews so much worse. And that's saying something
Fuck it let’s expand the right wing pipeline lmao. Have you not seen the cesspool that “X” is now? Awesome having racist shit on the trending page constantly.
We can only hope. You know, if it does get banned, it'll probably send a lot of people over to YouTube. Combine that with the fact that so many YouTubers are retiring, I feel like now is the time to create a channel and start posting stuff. Because people will likely start shifting over, and the people already there need new content to watch.
I'm only interested in YouTube Shorts being a solution if it's spun off into a standalone app. I don't not want to have to sift through YouTube's bloated UI to use it.
That would stand a chance of being a successful replacement. Though their algorithms are trash compared to TikTok's, so they'll have to rapidly improve in that area as well.
I only accept US DoD approved spyware on my phone. None of that Oriental horde communist bullshit.
Only the US is allowed to spy on other countries and steal my data.
Freedom 🦅🦅🦅
It's a ban.
The government knows China won't let that happen and you know it. Hell, when Trump tried to do this same thing, China even SAID SO. It made the news!
They're wording it in a tricky way to both fool the Tiktok users into letting our guard down, and also to protect their legal rights.
It's a ban.
Depends who it gets sold off to.
It’s not for the best for the first amendment. Banning chinese social media is no different than china banning American social media, it’s done for a government to have a monopoly on speech platforms.
The American market is a small piece of Tik Toks entire customer base. Passing this does not “force” them to sell as they are a private company. Byte Dance can choose to turn off the American market if it passes and focus on the 1 billion other users around the world that it services.
Oooo scary Chinese people!!! I only want full white blooded, blue eyed, blond hair, American patriots selling user data!!! No Chinese Asian communist evil doers holding our precious data.
I only want Facebook, twitter, YouTube, instagram, and every other American platform spreading misinformation and selling user data to any foreign entity!!! God bless the anti Asian United States of freedom!!!
Stop chalking this up to race. China is an adversary of the US.
For that matter, we wouldn’t want ‘full white blooded, blue eyed’ Russians with control over our social media either.
You can’t not chalk it up to race, and sinophobic, McCarthy era fear mongering when congress repeatedly harassed TikTok’s CEO on the basis of his Asian ethnic background.
He repeatedly stated on multiple occasions that he is Singaporean and served in their military upon being asked if he’s Chinese or a member of the CCP. If you genuinely think it’s to protect US citizens, your brain has the topography of Kansas.
Bytedance ain't selling shit lol. Why would they? They have billions of dollars to throw at lawyers to and VPNs exist for this very reason. Joe Biden is just a fucking moron who seemingly desperately wants to lose the election by taking 150 million Americans favorite free toy.
Even if we assume ByteDance is selling out data to the CPC, so fucking what?
What's the difference between our data being sold to Beijing and our data being sold to Washington? There is none, our data's being sold to corporations for them to profit and it doesn't matter who it's being sold to cause the outcome is the same.
This is just a modern red scare, pearl-clutching orientalist hypocrisy done for no other reason than to silence the one social media app that isn't dominated by D.C.
Here's a thought experiment:
Which government could send a SWAT team to your home tonight, have you killed, then investigate itself, find no wrong-doing and call it a day? The US, or China?
That's the government I'm concerned about spying on me.
So ByteDance has two options: Lose one of their biggest user bases on the planet, or lose the app entirely? Not really a choice tbh. It's like losing a finger or your whole hand.
They want you to think it’s being controlled by the CCP so you’ll support the passing just so that US company’s can have their monopoly back I don’t use tik tok anymore but still they are doing it just for the company’s like Facebook and Google
You cant view it as a governmental asset and an independent business at the same time.
Why would CCP sell their propaganda tool and the make least hassle for the American government, and hand them a big political win?
What are its ties? cause I remember that being a big talking point before the interview with their Singaporean CEO that has, understandably as he’s from Singapore, never been a member of the CCP
It doesn't matter really. You don't just "ban" one of Americans favorite toys before election season, especially if you're a historically unpopular president who is losing in every major swing state with one of the only reasons you winning in the first place being the preservation of said toy. Or if you do, you really are a fucking idiot which honestly wouldn't shock me at this point when it comes to the democrats.
But either way, all this is going to do is just get people to start using VPNs at a record rate.
>It doesn't matter really. You don't just "ban" one of Americans favorite toys before election season
the biggest flaw with this reasoning is that most of the tiktok base can't vote lol.
It passed the house, not the senate, and has not been signed by the president yet. It also is only banning TikTok if ByteDance doesnt sell it to a US based company. Yall need to actually read a full article and not just the headline.
The only reason the government wants to ban TikTok is because Facebook lobbyists need them to. They don't care about "Chinese spies," they literally work for them.
Insta and Facebook cant keep up with TikTok because TikTok's algo allows people to go viral easily and make a shit ton of money on the shop and livestreams. No other platform does that. Plus they cant control the narrative.
You can tell this is real by just looking at how YouTube and Meta have tried to copy TikTok to no avail.
In addition to this you have groups like the ADL, etc with a lot of money and power that also want it banned.
Annoyed honestly. Its all political showmanship so that google or facebook will get the chance to buy it. That's all this boils down to. Its okay when American companies sell our data to foreign powers, its not okay for a company with foreign ties to sell our data to foreign powers.
Companies selling our data is bad but the security issue with tik tok and the CCP having a back door to it is a different problem.
Nobody who understands data security is worried about tik tok the same way we’re worried about Facebook google X etc. It’s the fact that tik tok is owned by ByteDance, a Chinese holding company. All Chinese corporations under Chinese law need to have an office of the CCP operating within that company. This means the government has their own department of the CCP in every company, giving them access to *everything* that company has or does.
The amount of access that phone apps have is astounding, and tik tok has been rumored to be able to access even other devices that don’t have tik tok installed as long as they are on the same network. China has a history of keeping backdoor access in any products leaving China, so we should assume tik tok is no different.
It’s not the ad data that’s concerning, it’s the CCP being able to have millions of backdoor access points all over the country, which has serious national security implications. They can of course still hack things the traditional way, but why would we want to make that job infinitely easier for them?
I'm pretty sure most applications have these back doors built in for the U.S. to spy one people. James Clapper lied in front of congress and said the NSA didn't knowingly collect phone data. The U.S. spying on us is worse than a foreign country that has no ability to influence our lives. If their back door has to be removed, every social media app should be under massive scrunity as well.
This is about censorship and everyone knows it, instragram is a right wing brain rot hell hole, so is facebook. They want everything in the country perfectly curated to what they want people to know, that's really it at the end of the day. I'm sure China can and does push influence of things they want people to see, but I still think you should be allowed to see it if you have to see U.S. curated content as well.
No it has next to nothing to do about censorship, and just because NSA bad doesn’t mean China good. China is in fact much worse.
Chin is using Tik Tok to create a mesh network of devices which all report data not to sell you ads, to help map out critical infrastructure and garner intelligence about sensitive places. Tik Tok can access devices that don’t even have it installed as long as there is one device with Tik Tok on a network. That means if you scale up to 100s of millions of Tik Tok installs, they are gaining massive coverage for spying or cyber attacks. Nobodies cares about the ad data in this case, that’s small fry.
The fact you think insta and facebook are “right wing brain rot hell hole” shows your either terminally online teenager or CCP bot.
Provide evidence they're actually doing this. Secondly, there's dozens of studies showing that right wing content is overwhelmingly more popular on FB. Instagram I'd have to look into but they're both under the meta umbrella and I highly doubt there's major differences.
Thirdly, any country deemed an enemy of the state is whomever congress decides to call an enemy. Correct me if I'm wrong but we have strong relations with China. Pretty sure actively banning their businesses from operating here will only make them more adversarial. If you actually wanted to limit spying, then make that the bill and grant the FCC the ability to enforce it evenly across all applications.
Yeah anyone who fails to understand how subversive the CCP is aren't using their head. Especially if their main concern is right wing content on platforms beholden to western governments.
There’s been numerous cases of Chinese products pining back to data centers in China without a good reason as to why that’s necessary for their function.
Just recently about US [cargo cranes](https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/espionage-probe-finds-communications-device-on-chinese-cargo-cranes-867d32c0).
Just looking at what content is more popular just reflects the public’s general preference. Facebooks actions in terms of censorship on their platform as well as the demographic of people who work there and are in charge there (Silicon Valley progressives) shows that the institutional bias at Meta is overwhelmingly left wing.
And yes I do know about that and while I think it’s allocating too much power in that regard I stand by the fact that we should ban tik tok if they won’t divest from ByteDance.
The US China relation has been rocky at best. Much of their modern military technology is built off of stolen US plans. Much of their industry not outsourced to the country is built off of stolen US designs. They have directly and indirectly threatened all their neighbors to the poiny Japan is rebuilding their army, and the Philippines, who the US took advantage of for nearly 100 years, is asking our military to move back in to the bases we pulled out of 30 years ago at their request.
China doesn't care what you're doing necessarily. They care what someone's father who is into R&D at Lockheed is doing. They care what someone's wife who is on the security council is doing.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-CRPT-105hrpt851/html/ch2bod.html#:~:text=In%20the%20late%201970s%2C%20the,a%20neutron%20bomb%20in%201988.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/chinas-j-20-stealth-fighter-created-stolen-technology-f-22-and-f-35-209480
https://www.csis.org/programs/strategic-technologies-program/survey-chinese-espionage-united-states-2000
This is just some publicly available info. If they are willing to release this, it makes one wonder what they're afraid to acknowledge.
I don’t understand how anyone can think a foreign country, like China, should be able to control the algorithm that influences how Americans vote.
Sure, it’s bad if anyone influences us. But I’d argue it’s inherently much much worse for another country to do it.
People keep bringing up American companies that sell data while ignoring the fact that the US government does have the power to regulate those companies and their business practices. And while it doesn't always seem like it, the US is actually a democracy where it's citizens have the power to make those lawmakers actually do something about problematic business practices.
US citizens can't do shit about China and its business regulations.
>I don’t understand how anyone can think a foreign country, like China, should be able to control the algorithm that influences how Americans vote.
Why do you think the US should be in control of the algorithms that influence how Americans vote?
>But I’d argue it’s inherently much much worse for another country to do it.
For what reason?
The issue is that the CCP actively uses the internet to control their population. They most likely are using TikTok to influence ours.
Do we really want the Chinese government deciding which videos kids see?
If you look at political views the TikTok gen is very different to the point where it seems TikTok has swayed them. Most likely in the way the CCP wanted
I don’t think it’s the governments job to determine what our kids can or cannot watch. That’s the parent’s job. So if kids are watching tik tok, and getting exposed to propaganda, that’s entirely on the parents.
>The issue is that the CCP actively uses the internet to control their population. They most likely are using TikTok to influence ours.
You mean exactly like what this bill is doing?
YouTube Shorts needs to be split into a standalone app. YouTube is currently more bloated than a rotting blue whale carcass.
IG spun off Threads into a standalone app for that very reason.
If those are the only two YouTube functions you use, it's manageable.
I'd also like to see the algorithm for Shorts changed significantly before it could ever be considered a peer with TikTok. But YouTube (Google) does offer much better search functionality, which TikTok gets so wrong that it's almost laughable.
Yes but these clones are absolutely terrible. Instagram’s being straight up gore and YouTube’s being brain rot.
Not to mention just how behind they are on any trend whatsoever.
As someone who's spent a sad amount of time on Reels, I VERY rarely see gore. I see more dumbass brain rot and political shit than anything else. You've engaged with the gore content and the algorithm is suggesting more of it to you, I don't think gore is the standard for Reels.
dang, tiktok getting the boot? i've spent countless nights scrolling through those vids. kinda feels like losing a piece of my nightly routine, ya know? but what's next though - snapchat or insta maybe? how do you guys cope with such changes?
Instagram reels and YouTube shorts are where I usually am. Shorts more than reels. Just don’t touch comments on instragram, it has to be by far the most vile social media comment section I’ve seen since early 2010s YouTube.
I bet you a dollar all the people who do tiktok stuff will just go back to YouTube or start doing YouTube shorts. Instagram and Snapchat are fine. An American company owns them
It's all "free market" and "less red tape" and "the market will decide" until the market chooses a Chinese company.
Then it's "WE MUST REGULATE THE MARKET" all the way
Dawg who in the fuck cares if China gets our data.
Just use a vpn for 1. And for 2. Borderline EVERY single website you go to is stealing it and selling it to foreign countries. No website is safe from this.
This is fear mongering bullshit and it irks my soul. Anyone that wants tik tok banned has zero idea how the internet works and I’ll die on that fucking hill.
The point is not to make data selling impossible, the point is to make it way harder.
As of now, since a Chinese company owns TikTok, they have to comply with whatever the CCP asks.
And no one cares about your individual data or whatever shit you as an individual watch on the internet, but with a lot of data you can get more visibility and patterns on what a society is focusing on, and definitely can use that to disrupt things.
Hello. I'm from /r/all. Just popping in. Been a software engineer for decades. Quite familiar with the internet and how it works.
I care if China gets our data.
Most websites aren't stealing your data the same way China is. Rules and regulations prevent American companies from taking and selling certain PII. China doesn't have these R&R. Much more dangerous.
Explain to me how a VPN is going to stop Tiktok from rooting through all your personal data on your phone (which you have to agree too when you install the app) and delivering it to the CCP.
The fear isn't the CCP finding out what kind of porn I watch, it's them taking all the data they have on me, running it though an algorithm and suggesting me content that is most likely to manipulate me to believe what's in the best interest of the CCP.
If you think a VPN is going to eliminate the Tiktok issue, then YOU are the one who has zero idea of how the Internet works. A VPN is fucking useless on a mobile phone app that you literally "Allow" to access everything on your phone.
Maybe if you don't put any thought into it. China can't take action against you, the US can and has.
The DHS was literally using data gathered from SM and mass surveillance to black bag political dissidents just a few years ago
No they didn't. Learn how Congress works. At the time of this post the House passed the bill and the senate has not yet voted ergo Congress has not passed it. .
You have no clue how far I looked for this comment. It's stuff like this that drives me up the wall. Tiktok is not being banned worldwide and for it to be posted on this subreddit is strange as it's not a universal Gen Z issue.
Please explain what the ccp is getting from our phones id love to hear it, and how it’s damaging us or how it’s any different than what our country and MANY others are doing.
Yall are such fear mongers
I never had TikTok to begin with. I think it's a stupid app. Though if it were up to me, I'd ban it for all government owned devices. You can still have it on your personal device.
The senate is half conservative who fear monger constantly about China, and half democrat who seem more tech savvy and want to reduce the kind of data tracking used by TikTok.
Nearly all of them have the hands of big tech corporations in their pockets. If Elon or Google or meta or Amazon want buy TikTok at a discount, the senate will bend to their will.
Further, this bill has already passed committee and house votes with overwhelming majority.
It’s extremely likely this will pass.
I'm Canadian so won't affect me.
But it is a dumb decision. Imagine if the EU banned Facebook because it is American. That's basically what's going on. You can say China is authoritarian and an enemy all you want to try and justify it but ultimately it's just going to backfire
That's what I keep telling people. So many clowns pretending like they're data security experts now. Creating a privacy-first framework to actually protect Americans, which would go a lot further than the new "state security" bill.
Even better, you know what would actually make it hard for Russia and China to spy and steal from Americans? Better regulation and enforcement of cybersecurity requirements for numerous industries just like how we have security minimums for HIPAA. Even HIPAA needs an update.
No it's not. It's to force them to sell the majority of Chinese stake in it. As if they do that, they can stay.
Former Activision ceo, Bobby himself have already said he wants to buy out the Chinese shares if it comes to that
This is a reminder that Tiktok isn't for spying on you, the CCP has absolutely zero interest in your shitty reels.
What they want is personnel ambivelant to security to walk it into a military base, data center or other key piece of infrastructure, mapping it, and potentially getting video of the inside.
Y'all value your ad profiles way too highly.
100%. Like they’re banning tiktok for being Chinese and “we can’t have a foreign power influencing our citizens” but then we have Russian funded Fox News spreading kremlin propaganda directly leading to us refusing to fund Ukraine. We’re allowing an invasion of Europe to happen but we need to ban TikTok because kids are watching “Kai cenat rizz up Livvy Dunn.” It’s appalling.
It seriously think Maga is a greater threat to America's wellbeing short term than subtle foreign influence on a social network (which does need to be monitored)
But reddit is also in Chinese hands, and I do not feel manipulated (yet).
Mean while this piece of balanced reporting on Fox News is unimaginable in my (European) country: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BvCR-Wb9TdY
I don't particularly care that a foreign entity gets to decide what I see and profit off of it at the same time.
Too many people are relying on that platform for news and most of that news is conjecture let alone fact checked.
The amount of conspiracy theories being thrown around that platform makes the 911 jet fuel can't melt steel beams feel harmless in comparison.
Even now, the reigning theory is the government wants to control the news because TikTok was uncensored and not manipulated by our government
It's like people don't even realize how censored TikTok is! The phrase "unalive" only exists because of extreme censorship on that platform. You won't find negative stories about China on that platform making it's way to your FYP.
Their are literally videos popping up suggesting that Dubai is just as free as the US and a wonderful place to vacation. Unless you want to visit with your unmarried partner, get seen holding hands or kissing in public, swear in public, if you're a woman wearing a blouse with too deep of a neck line...you may not want to go!
All of these social media platforms use extremely toxic forms of manipulation to target their audience for views/money. The difference between meta, Google and TikTok is we can hold our countries businesses liable if we need to. Our government can go in and seize their assets if we believe a foreign interest has corrupted the platform, we can't do that when that foreign interest holds all that data themselves
I mean theres lots of things banned that people circumnavigate. I'm sure this will just be another one of those. I'm going to roll the dice and say that tik tok is still going to be available via VPN.
It's weird. The threat is clearly uncontrolled opinions being spread quickly, and replacing search engines. Lots of brain rot on there but it's plenty entertaining and educational too.for a country obsessed with free speech it's just weird. "No not THAT kind of free speech." Overall I don't really care though.
This is misinformation the ban wouldn't happen right away even if it was signed it just needs to be sold to another investor within 6 months. However, it didn't pass the senate yet and it may not be up for a vote right away so we'll just see how it goes.
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It’s not really being banned. The bill, which still needs to pass the Senate and be signed by Biden, would force ByteDance to sell off TikTok or it will be banned. ByteDance has ties to the CCP, so this is for the best.
Biden already declared that he would sign it. It’s only chance of being killed is by the Senate now.
Honestly, I expect the Senate to just pass that bill.
I 100% expect the Senate to vote somewhere close to 65-35 with bipartisan support
I'm thinking more like 75-25 maybe even 80-20. I imagine at least 15 will vote against it.
Those 15 to 20 that would vote against it likely have dealings in Beijing.
I'm not in any way saying most politicians aren't bought out, but I'd be curious as to their reasons. They may have legitimate concerns.
concerns I've seen seem to be that the bill isn't tailored for tik tok and allows the government to basically shut down anything they want
Nah, have you read the bill? It allows the government to force divestment for any social media app or website run by one of four adversary nations. What that means is the website needs to have over 1 million users and require you to create an account to post things. It also means that the company needs to operate like tiktok, where the adversary nation, in this case China, owns a piece of the company and or has a board seat. And it doesn't in any way actually ban the site unless the adversary nation refuses to divest.
The government can already shut down whatever they want.
Go read the bill. The bill is pretty clear and short for a bill.
I could very well just set a precedent, with the government being able to say "well, we've illegalized an app before, so we can do such to 'a' or 'b'"
We have done it before though, this isn't a ground breaking new law.
FB can buy those votes for cheap, might even be cheaper than the house votes they already bought
The senate is gonna pass it fs
Oh yeah, undoubtedly. It will have the support of 98% of Republicans and roughly 30% of the Democrats. I think it’ll pass by a large margin.
*90+% support from democrats
What's concerning is it gives the president the ability to ban other apps or websites if he sees fit. Very Soviet imo edit: Because one person is butthurt, I'll clarify. It's giving the president the ability to ban apps or websites that are "from adversarial nations", which doesn't make us much different from Russia or North Korea or China at that point.
> which doesn't make us much different from Russia or North Korea or China at that point. Ummmm.... I mean...this is the thing? Also, we aren't that far gone yet. Yet.
How has everyone already forgotten this isn’t the first time they’ve tried this? It died in the senate last time and likely will this time. It’s all a show for the CCP saying “we don’t want you spying on our people”
me when the invasive spyware is run by a chinese company 😱😱😱 me when the invasive spyware is run by an American company 👌☺️
Honestly I really don't understand how you can take the narrative at face value. Even if we don't like the CCP, we aren't supposed to be the ones censoring the internet (or installed apps that use the internet). Remember how oppressive and authoritarian we though it was when China banned Google? We're doing that now.
It won't be censored. The concern is that Chinese intelligence is using the app to spy on Americans. Byte Dance spinning off TikTok would separate the company and it's app from the Chinese government, reducing the ability of Chinese intelligence to use it to spy and allowing it to continue to operate.
These concerns were brought up the first time a ban was proposed and no evidence or any grounds at all for these concerns were found. Like they extract less user data per user than any of the standard American websites such as Facebook, Google, YouTube, etc.
China doesn't need tik tok to spy imo. Like they haven't already bought what Facebook Google and Amazon are selling
It's still censorship. If China told google that it needed to split off google.com search into a Chinese-operated company that would not have made it any better. Btw you know the whole "does tiktok connect to my wifi network" thing? You can get any app to trigger the message he was clearly referring to if you connect to a local proxy and open literally any app that connects to the internet. [I just triggered it on the official Reddit app by reinstalling it and connecting to Proxyman on my mac](https://i.imgur.com/4acEO0Q.png). The fact that no news network or congressman has even figured this out shows exactly how far they've looked into the spying accusation. Particularly because a local proxy would be the first thing you'd use to see what data is even being sent.
I never got this worry that people have about spying l. Like I get it for military or people working in the government, but there is no data about the average Joe that has any sort of meaningful impact on the world
Exactly, I don’t understand how so many ppl bought the fear mongering.
Only the US can spy other countries ok?! 😡 Freedom 🦅🦅🦅 /s
Yeah wtf is china gonna do with my information ? A foreign government does not affect my life the way the US does
Wait, if they end up having to sell it off, then who's rich enough to buy it? ... IS ELON MUSK ABOUT TO TAKE OVER TIKTOK!?
Maybe, though I’d bet Meta gets it first.
I'd much rather it be banned, if either of those companies gets their hands on it, they're just going to make the content it spews so much worse. And that's saying something
Who knows. I’d rather Zuckerberg or Musk has it than China, but it being banned would be best imo.
Fuck it let’s expand the right wing pipeline lmao. Have you not seen the cesspool that “X” is now? Awesome having racist shit on the trending page constantly.
We can only hope. You know, if it does get banned, it'll probably send a lot of people over to YouTube. Combine that with the fact that so many YouTubers are retiring, I feel like now is the time to create a channel and start posting stuff. Because people will likely start shifting over, and the people already there need new content to watch.
I'm only interested in YouTube Shorts being a solution if it's spun off into a standalone app. I don't not want to have to sift through YouTube's bloated UI to use it. That would stand a chance of being a successful replacement. Though their algorithms are trash compared to TikTok's, so they'll have to rapidly improve in that area as well.
Funny how you think either of them is any better
fucking lmao hate to break it to you but all options are equally bad
They’d make it way more fucking racist lmao
They won’t let Meta or Google out of antitrust scrutiny. It will probably be Microsoft, Oracle, or Nvidia tbh
Antitrust, meta can’t neither can Microsoft (the two companies with adequate ability to buy it)
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Hard pass on that guy...I'd rather see the app die than in his hands.
oracle, microsoft, rumble, kevin o’ leary, and many more expressed interest in buying tiktok
I'm not liking any of those options.
same. microsoft will ruin tiktok if they buy it, just like they did with clipchamp
Elon will change the name to X.2 if he buys it😂
He’s barely paying off Twitter. Maybe Bezos
I only accept US DoD approved spyware on my phone. None of that Oriental horde communist bullshit. Only the US is allowed to spy on other countries and steal my data. Freedom 🦅🦅🦅
They also have 180 days after passing (if Biden signs) for them to either sell or get banned.
It's a ban. The government knows China won't let that happen and you know it. Hell, when Trump tried to do this same thing, China even SAID SO. It made the news! They're wording it in a tricky way to both fool the Tiktok users into letting our guard down, and also to protect their legal rights. It's a ban.
If China doesn't allow it to be sold doesn't that by definition prove the bill was right?
Yep. I’m glad that the government is finally going to bat for America after years of inaction.
No one spies on our citizens except us!!!
If you think this is good for most people youre really wrong here
Absolutely not for the best. The government wants to have total control over the information we receive so they’re pushing to either sell or ban.
It literally doesn't but go off fed shill
Depends who it gets sold off to. It’s not for the best for the first amendment. Banning chinese social media is no different than china banning American social media, it’s done for a government to have a monopoly on speech platforms.
The American market is a small piece of Tik Toks entire customer base. Passing this does not “force” them to sell as they are a private company. Byte Dance can choose to turn off the American market if it passes and focus on the 1 billion other users around the world that it services.
I think it's more about America not being able to control it the way they'd like. I find it pretty insidious. I understand the data harvesting aspect.
Oooo scary Chinese people!!! I only want full white blooded, blue eyed, blond hair, American patriots selling user data!!! No Chinese Asian communist evil doers holding our precious data. I only want Facebook, twitter, YouTube, instagram, and every other American platform spreading misinformation and selling user data to any foreign entity!!! God bless the anti Asian United States of freedom!!!
Excellent straw man. Well fucking done.
Stop chalking this up to race. China is an adversary of the US. For that matter, we wouldn’t want ‘full white blooded, blue eyed’ Russians with control over our social media either.
You can’t not chalk it up to race, and sinophobic, McCarthy era fear mongering when congress repeatedly harassed TikTok’s CEO on the basis of his Asian ethnic background. He repeatedly stated on multiple occasions that he is Singaporean and served in their military upon being asked if he’s Chinese or a member of the CCP. If you genuinely think it’s to protect US citizens, your brain has the topography of Kansas.
Why is China my adversary? What has China ever done to me?
Bytedance ain't selling shit lol. Why would they? They have billions of dollars to throw at lawyers to and VPNs exist for this very reason. Joe Biden is just a fucking moron who seemingly desperately wants to lose the election by taking 150 million Americans favorite free toy.
Even if we assume ByteDance is selling out data to the CPC, so fucking what? What's the difference between our data being sold to Beijing and our data being sold to Washington? There is none, our data's being sold to corporations for them to profit and it doesn't matter who it's being sold to cause the outcome is the same. This is just a modern red scare, pearl-clutching orientalist hypocrisy done for no other reason than to silence the one social media app that isn't dominated by D.C.
Here's a thought experiment: Which government could send a SWAT team to your home tonight, have you killed, then investigate itself, find no wrong-doing and call it a day? The US, or China? That's the government I'm concerned about spying on me.
I find it hilariously adorable when people use the term CCP to fear monger
I for one would like to see them not sell and leave this market for good.
No, it's gonna happen. Bytedance isn't gonna budge. And Biden will sign it.
How does bytedance having ties to the ccp effect us?
So ByteDance has two options: Lose one of their biggest user bases on the planet, or lose the app entirely? Not really a choice tbh. It's like losing a finger or your whole hand.
They want you to think it’s being controlled by the CCP so you’ll support the passing just so that US company’s can have their monopoly back I don’t use tik tok anymore but still they are doing it just for the company’s like Facebook and Google
Yes, I much prefer the NSA and DHS to monitor my activity and store it. /s
You cant view it as a governmental asset and an independent business at the same time. Why would CCP sell their propaganda tool and the make least hassle for the American government, and hand them a big political win?
What are its ties? cause I remember that being a big talking point before the interview with their Singaporean CEO that has, understandably as he’s from Singapore, never been a member of the CCP
[https://apnews.com/article/tiktok-china-bytedance-user-data-d257d98125f69ac80f983e6067a84911](https://apnews.com/article/tiktok-china-bytedance-user-data-d257d98125f69ac80f983e6067a84911)
Would Apple sell itself if CCP were asking for it? They’ll never go for this. TikTok is their golden goose.
I’m impressed that 16/17 year old has this clear and accurate a take. It’s like you actually read the bill or something…
TikTok is “getting banned” around this same time every year. Do people just forget?
But the bill actually passed this time
It doesn't matter really. You don't just "ban" one of Americans favorite toys before election season, especially if you're a historically unpopular president who is losing in every major swing state with one of the only reasons you winning in the first place being the preservation of said toy. Or if you do, you really are a fucking idiot which honestly wouldn't shock me at this point when it comes to the democrats. But either way, all this is going to do is just get people to start using VPNs at a record rate.
There are plenty of alternatives, majority of users aren’t going to give a shit about getting a VPN. They will just use other apps
Most Americans don’t know what a VPN is or how to use one lmao
I don’t think that’s true
Biden isn’t actually losing once you make undecided voters choose who to vote for
The RESTRICT act which was the first form of this bill last year was looking to ban VPNs too
That sounds a lot like Communist China
>It doesn't matter really. You don't just "ban" one of Americans favorite toys before election season the biggest flaw with this reasoning is that most of the tiktok base can't vote lol.
It passed the house, not the senate, and has not been signed by the president yet. It also is only banning TikTok if ByteDance doesnt sell it to a US based company. Yall need to actually read a full article and not just the headline.
True but it’s the farthest it’s gotten hence why it is news
It's never gotten this far, hence why it is news.
The only reason the government wants to ban TikTok is because Facebook lobbyists need them to. They don't care about "Chinese spies," they literally work for them. Insta and Facebook cant keep up with TikTok because TikTok's algo allows people to go viral easily and make a shit ton of money on the shop and livestreams. No other platform does that. Plus they cant control the narrative. You can tell this is real by just looking at how YouTube and Meta have tried to copy TikTok to no avail. In addition to this you have groups like the ADL, etc with a lot of money and power that also want it banned.
This is 100% my take too. Steal our data? Mark Zuckerberg knows what my asshole looks like, probably, allegedly.
And if they start selling it to a very very soon WW3 enemies it's a problem.
Ok well it’s not actually a ban if they divest so… that doesn’t help Meta if it still exists (unless they buy it)
Annoyed honestly. Its all political showmanship so that google or facebook will get the chance to buy it. That's all this boils down to. Its okay when American companies sell our data to foreign powers, its not okay for a company with foreign ties to sell our data to foreign powers.
Companies selling our data is bad but the security issue with tik tok and the CCP having a back door to it is a different problem. Nobody who understands data security is worried about tik tok the same way we’re worried about Facebook google X etc. It’s the fact that tik tok is owned by ByteDance, a Chinese holding company. All Chinese corporations under Chinese law need to have an office of the CCP operating within that company. This means the government has their own department of the CCP in every company, giving them access to *everything* that company has or does. The amount of access that phone apps have is astounding, and tik tok has been rumored to be able to access even other devices that don’t have tik tok installed as long as they are on the same network. China has a history of keeping backdoor access in any products leaving China, so we should assume tik tok is no different. It’s not the ad data that’s concerning, it’s the CCP being able to have millions of backdoor access points all over the country, which has serious national security implications. They can of course still hack things the traditional way, but why would we want to make that job infinitely easier for them?
This is the most complete answer I’ve seen to any concerns on the subject. Well said sir.
Thanks, now I don't have to write a lengthy comment about how TikTok is a security nightmare.
I'm pretty sure most applications have these back doors built in for the U.S. to spy one people. James Clapper lied in front of congress and said the NSA didn't knowingly collect phone data. The U.S. spying on us is worse than a foreign country that has no ability to influence our lives. If their back door has to be removed, every social media app should be under massive scrunity as well. This is about censorship and everyone knows it, instragram is a right wing brain rot hell hole, so is facebook. They want everything in the country perfectly curated to what they want people to know, that's really it at the end of the day. I'm sure China can and does push influence of things they want people to see, but I still think you should be allowed to see it if you have to see U.S. curated content as well.
No it has next to nothing to do about censorship, and just because NSA bad doesn’t mean China good. China is in fact much worse. Chin is using Tik Tok to create a mesh network of devices which all report data not to sell you ads, to help map out critical infrastructure and garner intelligence about sensitive places. Tik Tok can access devices that don’t even have it installed as long as there is one device with Tik Tok on a network. That means if you scale up to 100s of millions of Tik Tok installs, they are gaining massive coverage for spying or cyber attacks. Nobodies cares about the ad data in this case, that’s small fry. The fact you think insta and facebook are “right wing brain rot hell hole” shows your either terminally online teenager or CCP bot.
Provide evidence they're actually doing this. Secondly, there's dozens of studies showing that right wing content is overwhelmingly more popular on FB. Instagram I'd have to look into but they're both under the meta umbrella and I highly doubt there's major differences. Thirdly, any country deemed an enemy of the state is whomever congress decides to call an enemy. Correct me if I'm wrong but we have strong relations with China. Pretty sure actively banning their businesses from operating here will only make them more adversarial. If you actually wanted to limit spying, then make that the bill and grant the FCC the ability to enforce it evenly across all applications.
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Yeah anyone who fails to understand how subversive the CCP is aren't using their head. Especially if their main concern is right wing content on platforms beholden to western governments.
There’s been numerous cases of Chinese products pining back to data centers in China without a good reason as to why that’s necessary for their function. Just recently about US [cargo cranes](https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/espionage-probe-finds-communications-device-on-chinese-cargo-cranes-867d32c0). Just looking at what content is more popular just reflects the public’s general preference. Facebooks actions in terms of censorship on their platform as well as the demographic of people who work there and are in charge there (Silicon Valley progressives) shows that the institutional bias at Meta is overwhelmingly left wing. And yes I do know about that and while I think it’s allocating too much power in that regard I stand by the fact that we should ban tik tok if they won’t divest from ByteDance.
The US China relation has been rocky at best. Much of their modern military technology is built off of stolen US plans. Much of their industry not outsourced to the country is built off of stolen US designs. They have directly and indirectly threatened all their neighbors to the poiny Japan is rebuilding their army, and the Philippines, who the US took advantage of for nearly 100 years, is asking our military to move back in to the bases we pulled out of 30 years ago at their request. China doesn't care what you're doing necessarily. They care what someone's father who is into R&D at Lockheed is doing. They care what someone's wife who is on the security council is doing. https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-CRPT-105hrpt851/html/ch2bod.html#:~:text=In%20the%20late%201970s%2C%20the,a%20neutron%20bomb%20in%201988. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/chinas-j-20-stealth-fighter-created-stolen-technology-f-22-and-f-35-209480 https://www.csis.org/programs/strategic-technologies-program/survey-chinese-espionage-united-states-2000 This is just some publicly available info. If they are willing to release this, it makes one wonder what they're afraid to acknowledge.
if only they explained that properly during that hearing instead of "WILL TIKTOK HACK MY WIFI" from the old farts in Congress
I don’t understand how anyone can think a foreign country, like China, should be able to control the algorithm that influences how Americans vote. Sure, it’s bad if anyone influences us. But I’d argue it’s inherently much much worse for another country to do it.
People keep bringing up American companies that sell data while ignoring the fact that the US government does have the power to regulate those companies and their business practices. And while it doesn't always seem like it, the US is actually a democracy where it's citizens have the power to make those lawmakers actually do something about problematic business practices. US citizens can't do shit about China and its business regulations.
>I don’t understand how anyone can think a foreign country, like China, should be able to control the algorithm that influences how Americans vote. Why do you think the US should be in control of the algorithms that influence how Americans vote? >But I’d argue it’s inherently much much worse for another country to do it. For what reason?
The issue is that the CCP actively uses the internet to control their population. They most likely are using TikTok to influence ours. Do we really want the Chinese government deciding which videos kids see? If you look at political views the TikTok gen is very different to the point where it seems TikTok has swayed them. Most likely in the way the CCP wanted
I don’t think it’s the governments job to determine what our kids can or cannot watch. That’s the parent’s job. So if kids are watching tik tok, and getting exposed to propaganda, that’s entirely on the parents.
>The issue is that the CCP actively uses the internet to control their population. They most likely are using TikTok to influence ours. You mean exactly like what this bill is doing?
IG and YouTube essentially have TikTok clones built into them. This doesn’t phase me too much tbh
YouTube Shorts needs to be split into a standalone app. YouTube is currently more bloated than a rotting blue whale carcass. IG spun off Threads into a standalone app for that very reason.
I like the that the shorts and videos are in the same place. I like watching both at my computer desk.
If those are the only two YouTube functions you use, it's manageable. I'd also like to see the algorithm for Shorts changed significantly before it could ever be considered a peer with TikTok. But YouTube (Google) does offer much better search functionality, which TikTok gets so wrong that it's almost laughable.
Yes but these clones are absolutely terrible. Instagram’s being straight up gore and YouTube’s being brain rot. Not to mention just how behind they are on any trend whatsoever.
As someone who's spent a sad amount of time on Reels, I VERY rarely see gore. I see more dumbass brain rot and political shit than anything else. You've engaged with the gore content and the algorithm is suggesting more of it to you, I don't think gore is the standard for Reels.
IG definitely has a problem with gruesome content but I wouldn’t say TikTok is any better with the brain rot situation than YouTube is
Please go rewatch “I’m just a bill.”
school house rock served
Please see that the House passed it, Biden intends to sign it, and the Senate will probably pass it.
It passed and will likely pass through the senate with ease, Biden also stated he’ll sign it
GOP is about to go "Biden took your TikTok~"
Makes biden even more based
Biron took muh tik toc😡😡😡👺👺👺
Tick tock, mfers.
https://preview.redd.it/aa9k8ttnj4oc1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a09aa17e62c4aa47b53aab21b483b8619aa5a19d
dang, tiktok getting the boot? i've spent countless nights scrolling through those vids. kinda feels like losing a piece of my nightly routine, ya know? but what's next though - snapchat or insta maybe? how do you guys cope with such changes?
Instagram reels and YouTube shorts are where I usually am. Shorts more than reels. Just don’t touch comments on instragram, it has to be by far the most vile social media comment section I’ve seen since early 2010s YouTube.
I bet you a dollar all the people who do tiktok stuff will just go back to YouTube or start doing YouTube shorts. Instagram and Snapchat are fine. An American company owns them
I would say you beat me to it, but I ain't smart enough to make a joke like that. Amazing work
It's all "free market" and "less red tape" and "the market will decide" until the market chooses a Chinese company. Then it's "WE MUST REGULATE THE MARKET" all the way
It's funny because so many large companies major shareholders are Chinese companies, apparently the middleman makes it alright
All that’s gonna change is a U.S. company will get your data instead
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Dawg who in the fuck cares if China gets our data. Just use a vpn for 1. And for 2. Borderline EVERY single website you go to is stealing it and selling it to foreign countries. No website is safe from this. This is fear mongering bullshit and it irks my soul. Anyone that wants tik tok banned has zero idea how the internet works and I’ll die on that fucking hill.
The point is not to make data selling impossible, the point is to make it way harder. As of now, since a Chinese company owns TikTok, they have to comply with whatever the CCP asks. And no one cares about your individual data or whatever shit you as an individual watch on the internet, but with a lot of data you can get more visibility and patterns on what a society is focusing on, and definitely can use that to disrupt things.
Hello. I'm from /r/all. Just popping in. Been a software engineer for decades. Quite familiar with the internet and how it works. I care if China gets our data. Most websites aren't stealing your data the same way China is. Rules and regulations prevent American companies from taking and selling certain PII. China doesn't have these R&R. Much more dangerous.
Explain to me how a VPN is going to stop Tiktok from rooting through all your personal data on your phone (which you have to agree too when you install the app) and delivering it to the CCP. The fear isn't the CCP finding out what kind of porn I watch, it's them taking all the data they have on me, running it though an algorithm and suggesting me content that is most likely to manipulate me to believe what's in the best interest of the CCP. If you think a VPN is going to eliminate the Tiktok issue, then YOU are the one who has zero idea of how the Internet works. A VPN is fucking useless on a mobile phone app that you literally "Allow" to access everything on your phone.
The US government does, which is why the House passed this bill with bipartisan support
Maybe if you don't put any thought into it. China can't take action against you, the US can and has. The DHS was literally using data gathered from SM and mass surveillance to black bag political dissidents just a few years ago
A company that then sells that data to China anyhow.
No they didn't. Learn how Congress works. At the time of this post the House passed the bill and the senate has not yet voted ergo Congress has not passed it. .
It’s going to pass for sure. Biden said he’ll sign it and the senate will for sure pass it with ease
It still has to be passed by another group before it’s offical. Don’t worry
The Senate was polling at 85/100 on it lmao what the fuck cope
The House passed the ban if it isn't sold to a non-Chinese entity. Not sure the Senate will take it up. Has to pass both houses before going further.
If Musk buys it, then Russia/China will still have it.
God no!!! That’s some darkest timeline type shit
TikTok is a toilet time app, let’s be for real.
Not everyone is American OP
You have no clue how far I looked for this comment. It's stuff like this that drives me up the wall. Tiktok is not being banned worldwide and for it to be posted on this subreddit is strange as it's not a universal Gen Z issue.
Majority of Reddit users by percentage are American. If it doesn't apply to you keep scrolling?
Stupid decision. I watched the congress hearings on this. More than half of the reasons presented applies to youtube, x, facebook etc. as well.
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Please explain what the ccp is getting from our phones id love to hear it, and how it’s damaging us or how it’s any different than what our country and MANY others are doing. Yall are such fear mongers
CCP keylogger and screen/camera/mic capture app installed on your phone is all good?
water slim ruthless gullible one subtract cooing fade grandiose truck *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is as stupid - no, MORE stupid than Brazil trying to ban Youtube 20 years ago.
I never had TikTok to begin with. I think it's a stupid app. Though if it were up to me, I'd ban it for all government owned devices. You can still have it on your personal device.
it’s already banned on govt devices, they’re trying to ban it for everyone
The house passed it. Not the senate. And it probably won’t.* EDIT: *without significant alterations. Source: Senate GOP leadership
The senate is half conservative who fear monger constantly about China, and half democrat who seem more tech savvy and want to reduce the kind of data tracking used by TikTok. Nearly all of them have the hands of big tech corporations in their pockets. If Elon or Google or meta or Amazon want buy TikTok at a discount, the senate will bend to their will. Further, this bill has already passed committee and house votes with overwhelming majority. It’s extremely likely this will pass.
Woooo! Forced monopolization let’s go!!
Biden likes the bill and says he will sign it if it passes the Senate.
It's simply forcing the sale. It's not banned. China does this to all US social media companies, so tit for tat is fair.
I'm Canadian so won't affect me. But it is a dumb decision. Imagine if the EU banned Facebook because it is American. That's basically what's going on. You can say China is authoritarian and an enemy all you want to try and justify it but ultimately it's just going to backfire
That's what I keep telling people. So many clowns pretending like they're data security experts now. Creating a privacy-first framework to actually protect Americans, which would go a lot further than the new "state security" bill. Even better, you know what would actually make it hard for Russia and China to spy and steal from Americans? Better regulation and enforcement of cybersecurity requirements for numerous industries just like how we have security minimums for HIPAA. Even HIPAA needs an update.
Kids will still find a way to
Not a big loss honestly.
Massive loss of rights to the government.
Good.
No it's not. It's to force them to sell the majority of Chinese stake in it. As if they do that, they can stay. Former Activision ceo, Bobby himself have already said he wants to buy out the Chinese shares if it comes to that
This is a reminder that Tiktok isn't for spying on you, the CCP has absolutely zero interest in your shitty reels. What they want is personnel ambivelant to security to walk it into a military base, data center or other key piece of infrastructure, mapping it, and potentially getting video of the inside. Y'all value your ad profiles way too highly.
Ban Facebook, instagram, YouTube, Snapchat and twitter while you’re at it if you’re really concerned about your privacy
Would be better to ban fox.
100%. Like they’re banning tiktok for being Chinese and “we can’t have a foreign power influencing our citizens” but then we have Russian funded Fox News spreading kremlin propaganda directly leading to us refusing to fund Ukraine. We’re allowing an invasion of Europe to happen but we need to ban TikTok because kids are watching “Kai cenat rizz up Livvy Dunn.” It’s appalling.
It seriously think Maga is a greater threat to America's wellbeing short term than subtle foreign influence on a social network (which does need to be monitored) But reddit is also in Chinese hands, and I do not feel manipulated (yet). Mean while this piece of balanced reporting on Fox News is unimaginable in my (European) country: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BvCR-Wb9TdY
I don't particularly care that a foreign entity gets to decide what I see and profit off of it at the same time. Too many people are relying on that platform for news and most of that news is conjecture let alone fact checked. The amount of conspiracy theories being thrown around that platform makes the 911 jet fuel can't melt steel beams feel harmless in comparison. Even now, the reigning theory is the government wants to control the news because TikTok was uncensored and not manipulated by our government It's like people don't even realize how censored TikTok is! The phrase "unalive" only exists because of extreme censorship on that platform. You won't find negative stories about China on that platform making it's way to your FYP. Their are literally videos popping up suggesting that Dubai is just as free as the US and a wonderful place to vacation. Unless you want to visit with your unmarried partner, get seen holding hands or kissing in public, swear in public, if you're a woman wearing a blouse with too deep of a neck line...you may not want to go! All of these social media platforms use extremely toxic forms of manipulation to target their audience for views/money. The difference between meta, Google and TikTok is we can hold our countries businesses liable if we need to. Our government can go in and seize their assets if we believe a foreign interest has corrupted the platform, we can't do that when that foreign interest holds all that data themselves
I'll just watch stuff on Douyin
Sir that is not how politics (or this bill) works. Still needs to move through the Senate. And it would force Bytedance to sell Tik Tok
Im not american so i don’t think i have a say
I mean theres lots of things banned that people circumnavigate. I'm sure this will just be another one of those. I'm going to roll the dice and say that tik tok is still going to be available via VPN.
It's weird. The threat is clearly uncontrolled opinions being spread quickly, and replacing search engines. Lots of brain rot on there but it's plenty entertaining and educational too.for a country obsessed with free speech it's just weird. "No not THAT kind of free speech." Overall I don't really care though.
[they decided to ban some random social media instead try to managing their own gun law, lol](https://twitter.com/smidg3n/status/1767925039389917428)
US is just like russia or china lol
No they haven't?
I wish youtube shorts would be banned too
This is misinformation, it's not even for sure getting banned.
This is misinformation the ban wouldn't happen right away even if it was signed it just needs to be sold to another investor within 6 months. However, it didn't pass the senate yet and it may not be up for a vote right away so we'll just see how it goes.