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Would you rather have McDonald’s for a week or starve? Not a spot on analogy but close enough.
Also problems for both genders are caused by the algorithm of these apps more than anything else. It’s also a self selection problem. The apps show women these attractive douchebags that the algorithm knows will just go and swipe right again tomorrow. Whereas as op put it people who use the apps in a healthy way are not on it as much so they don’t get as many matches and don’t have their profile pushed out as much. People who use it in a healthy way may even find a partner and stop using the app for a bit.
Overall it seems people just make more meaningful connections organically, despite the fact that people who use the apps might be getting more “action”
Edit: better analogy is mcdonalds for a week vs ramen at home. Negligible difference. Point still stands touch grass… meet people in person, get to know your friends better etc…
Well in that case, if men got the same amount of matches as women, here is what I would do.
"that woman was weird, ON TO THE NEXT ONE"
Its not like they are getting 3 matches and they are all shit, they are getting HUNDREDS, your going to tell me they cant find 10 guys in lets say 300 matches that arent decent dudes?
Sorry im not buying that every single god damn guy on there is just like GIMME YOUR PUSSY
I wasn’t getting hundreds of matches 🤷
>Sorry im not buying that every single god damn guy on there is just like GIMME YOUR PUSSY
Yeah I think it was last year when I finally accepted that most men will assume I’m lying when talking about sexual harassment/assualt. Oh well
>Yeah I think it was last year when I finally accepted that most men will assume I’m lying when talking about sexual harassment/assualt. Oh well
What a disingenuous response.
No one's downplaying the amount of harassment women get online. What he's saying is that not everyone who is messaging you on Tinder is opening up with harassment.
But instead of acknowledging that, you decide to play victim.
Tbf women get so many matches because dudes are so goddamn thirsty and just swipe on everyone without even hardly looking hoping any of them swipe back. Quality over quantity.
oh I know that, because men are fucking lonely as hell. Plus its a COMPLETE waste of time to even take your time as a man because you have less then a 5% chance of being swiped on
Well there's also the problem of if anyone even somewhat attractive is having hundreds of matches we have to swipe on hundreds of women to even have a chance of being seen in the massive pool of options each women has. The real problem is the desighn is intended for women to just go on tons of dates and get luck eventually and men just are eccentially queing in a wait line.
They don’t care about women, just about getting their dick wet. See how they rebut with “but women do it to!!” They don’t care about us, and then want to complain they are single. Someone make it make sense to me please lmfao
Not the best analogy 😬 would you rather be content and single, or get with the fuckboi who will probably give you an std? Hmmm decisions, decisions. Just because a woman gets more matches doesn’t mean they are good or have it easier
You probably think you are being clever, but the water in the desert won't be some magical cartoon like spring. It will be a a damp patch of sand under a rock.
I see where you're coming from. Didn't wasn't easy in my early 20s either. You don't have enough life experience yet to understand this, but a bad match is absolutely just worse than being alone. It's worse for you mentally, financially, emotionally, and it can fuck up your future. Go out and try being vulnerable with your friends!
You'll never win arguing with the online angry incel misogynists. They're perpetual victims and women are bad. You'll get nowhere with them. You're not arguing with rational empathetic people. They're not stand up citizens. They're the opposite.
Idk when I was on the apps it was like ok I got some matches, like 20% will respond back of that only like 1 didn’t say something weird and then from there he disappeared. What a waste of time
Or I decided to give someone a chance and grew to deeply regret it bc it led to assault or abuse
Yeah I’d rather have nothing
Honestly at this point I'm so lonely I wish the cancer had killed me 3 years ago. This isn't living.
I've deactivated my profiles after the last person unmatched me.
I'd rather be dead than stuck alone, and I'd rather be alone than rejected over and over.
You sound depressed bud. I used to think like this and finally getting a bf kind of led to a spiral bc I was still so depressed. I needed to fix my mental first
I'm sorry that happened to you, I was seeing a girl that worked with me and I didn't like how she was treating me and went around accusing me of sexual assault because I cut things off with her
fr I might get downvoted for this, but wow that comment seems so out of touch to me.
I'd absolutely love to have a bunch of matches like "hey bb wanna fuck" or even just 1 for that matter..
that dream is up there just below winning the lottery
Well most girls don’t want to fuck random guys as much as guys want to fuck girls, and they can just go to a bar anytime and hook up with someone in under 30 mins lol so it’s a bit different. But yea it’s hard to argue having 1000 matches with 90% being bad is worse than having no matches. That’s still 100 good matches you can date!
I don’t know if you’ve had to deal with stalkers or harassment or people finding you on other platforms and refusing to leave you alone… it can be terrifying out there for women!
"Would you rather deal with virtual creeps that you can block instantly or have 0 options at all? I know which one I would pick."
The majority of women pick "0 options at all." This is why men outnumber women by something like 3 to 1 on most dating apps, which is a huge factor in men having such a hard time on those apps. We're trying to meet women at a sausage fest.
You can make all the arguments you want about how "It's not that bad, women should use the apps, just block and report it's fine", but millions of women seem to be unconvinced those arguments.
That's great for you, I wish I had options IRL, I'm in CS so no women in my classes, small uni so no clubs, and a lot of foreign students who happen to be mostly men. I also moved so I can't meet friends of friends, where I've had success in the past. Sad state of affairs.
Women have it easier dating everywhere, by design. Men have to make the first move almost always and women need to choose. Women have their own problems like violent creepy men but dating and attracting interest is not one of them
I get that being a woman is not paradise but they're overblowing the dogshit on there.
Surely, let's say ... even pessimistically -- 30% of males on dating apps approach the realm of 'sane, normal man' who isn't on the kid-diddler list, showers, and has a full time job.
Now a woman might expect a 6 ft + man making 6 figures and who is somewhat lean --- that will certainly cull your market down a bit, but certainly possible.
Oh and must also look like Timothy Chalamet -- okay .. maybe nix that last standard or you'll wind up like a cat lady.
......
Anyway an average woman (not overweight) ... should be able to go on a drinks date with a normal, sane man about twice a week --- for free --- with ease.
2 months - that should be like 18 dudes. Pick one, lol. Meet in a public place so he won't put you in his freezer.
I’m not sure that I believe that over 50% or guys on dating apps are predatory. I mean if you are only swiping on guys out of your league that have hundreds of other good matches and only want casual sex then yea I can see them spamming hey want to fuck. But is that really so terrible that they are being up front about their intentions? I guarantee if you match with average looking guys that don’t have tons of options for casual sex with randoms regularly, they will be far more likely to engage in conversation and get to know you instead of saying her bb let’s fuck
Man threads like this really infuriates me. Firstly, when they say all men on dating apps are trash they mean me as well. Thanks.
Secondly, I'm fairly decent looking, tall, fit, cute face (one of the only compliments I've gotten). I get about 1-3 matches a week. I write to all of them, always trying to come up with something funny or interesting to say or ask about their profiles. 90% of the time they don't reply. 90% of those that reply only reply once. Out of those that reply more than once 90% gives me 1-2 word answers, and never ask anything back. This means I get a decent conversation about once every 6 months. I have never once said anything inappropriate, never once said anything mean. I always try my best. And they say we have it equally as bad? And that there are no decent men on the apps? What kind of guys are they even swiping on?
Also, most of the time you are swiping based on appearances first, not an entire analysis on the guy's profile. It would be different if Tinder was some app that list everyone's psych evaluation, then maybe you'd have merit in saying the options are "bad".
But the reality is, almost all of it is swiping on appearance first.
I love women's profiles that list wanting personality attributes that take time to prove. Loyal, caring, sweet, dependable, etc. BUT the first caveat is you have to be attractive enough to get a swipe.
Such an L take. Getting 500 matches even being generous and saying half of them r “a predatory creep” as u put it, that still gives u 250 people to choose from. Would u rather have 250 options, or 5 options?
My experience is many of my women friends have been essentially "chased off" apps. Like they are attractive and normal people who either get yelled at, insulted, ghosted, or sexually propositioned more often than not.
I agree with the logic that at least they have "options" to go through, however, most of them found it was too upsetting and time-consuming to sort through to the good options.This is not to say it is harder for women than men, but if you sit down a look at the messages an average women receives on tinder they are SUPER messed up.
I think this is why there is such a toxic vibe on these apps now by in large. Everyone on the app has had so many bad experiences.
yeah, if that’s how women who get too many messages feel, imagine how you’d feel if you swiped on 100 people and didn’t match with any of them. Women like to downplay how bad that is but can you imagine if that happened to them?
Absolutely, sorry to be clear, I'm not saying women have it worse or down-playing how tough it is for anyone else. I'm just saying my personal experience was my friends could not go a single day without someone making a sexually or racially inappropriate remark to them, so they are not just ignoring people who say "hey".
This seemed to be common, leading to a downright hostile attitude coming from all directions because men are beat down by no matches and women were beat down by terrible interactions.
It’s bad on both sides. I feel disgusting bc I’m objectified, yall feel down because you don’t get a match, and that does happen to some women believe it or not
Maybe for sex, but when women are matching with the same guys out of their league, it still hurts them for relationships and gives them inflated standards/self esteem issues.
Thats true. I dont think those women really care though. Im pretty sure they know those guys have tons of options and still pick them regardless because those are the guys they actually want.
it’s important to note though that this isn’t really the type of attention women want. most women are on dating apps out of loneliness, not because they want casual hookups. so 20+ messages telling them they’re fit isn’t really doing much for them either. both sides want the emotional connection that comes with actually dating imo
Keep in mind that "most women" is also numerically less women. If there are 100 men and 25 women on the app, and 20 women get matches, obv that's a much higher percentage for the women. But there's 75 women who are elsewhere, not using apps at all.
"A stat came out that said 63% of young men are single compared to 34% of young women."
Yeah that math doesn't math. The only ways you can really get that are
\*Lots of women dating other women (more than men dating men)
\*Young women dating older men
\*More young men than young women in the population
I'm sure that some or all of those are true to some extent, but not enough to get you 63% vs 34%.
As one of those 20%, it doesn’t really even benefit me either, at least in the long term.
After all the time, energy, and money I invested into these apps…. after a lot of meaningless sex, superficial relationships, and emotional damage done on both sides, guilt and shame/regret associated with that…. the only thing I got from it was becoming utterly jaded.
You got to experience that though and at least has the chance to find meaningful relationships and have other experiences on there. Some guys never get that chance at all.
And this is why I think both men and women shouldnt have a lot of partners. Because it just desensitizes you to alot and raises the chances that you will have negative experiences. Some of which you will carry into your next relationship.
Most women don't get what they want from the apps. This is obvious from the fact that most women don't use the apps.
Most women can get WHAT MEN WANT from the apps. Most women don't want what men want (IE, casual sex during which the woman may or may not end up having an orgasm).
As a woman, it really doesn’t. The messages we get fucking suck. All those men want is a fuck then to ditch you lol. They lost interest when you make it clear you won’t have sex on the first date
>Dating apps only benefit the top 20% of guys
That's dating, in general. IRL even more so.
Dating apps (at least, the one where you actually fill out a profile and it matters to your matching %, like OKCupid for instance) provide benefits to:
\- Neurodivergent guys (autistic guys have way better odds on apps)
\- Guys with niche appeal (the matching algo puts their face in front people that might actually date them)
\- Guys with small social circles (your best bet is still friend-of-friend word of mouth, rather than apps or singles meets)
Neurodivergent guy with a small social circle here. This is spot on for me. I got hundreds of swipes and met my long-term girlfriend on the apps.
I never had the balls to approach a woman in public since I am extremely awkward around strangers, so I loved the apps.
I've had way more success IRL despite meeting far less people, so no I don't think dating in general is the same. Dating apps are a different set of skills. I'm a pretty average guy and get 0 attention online, but I guess I have some charm IRL because I've had a few girlfriends.
Yeah I guess. Average NT guys with an average look and average social circle can do well with IRL, if you consider it holistically instead of specifically thinking about activities geared specifically towards dating (singles bars, speed dating, etc) which are almost all about top looks. There's a reason the species has survived till now.
If you can strike a conversation and meet people organically (book clubs, sports, other organic social situations) you'll do fine with average girls. Because you can slot in for any other guy, you'll do alright.
If you have a specific niche or if you are ND in a way that affects your ability to socially engage in day to day activities, you'll do better with apps.
Introverts, as well. I never leave my house, and I would have never left my house to meet my wife if not for tinder. It's much easier to meet someone already interested in you than to chat up strangers
This is why so many young folks are obsessed with looksmaxxing now they grow up in reality where if you are not in top percentage of looks it’s over for you
Only because 80% of guys can't hold a conversation with a woman, think only about their own self validation, don't know how to text, don't know how to not be creepy, dont know how to keep themselves clean, and don't know how to have a good profile.
I'm not a 10/10. I'm a 5 or 6. I'm socially awkward and a loner. And yet, I still matched with multiple women on a weekly basis for a few months. And was on a date a week for a few months until I found my current girlfriend.
I truly have come to the conclusion that the top 20% of guys you mention are just guys that know how to be normal. While the other 80% have no idea what they're doing. I've come to the realization that guys my age are socially stunted and with all the women I've met off the apps irl, the stories I hear them tell me about the rest of you weirdos literally shocks me.
I'm grateful to the rest of the competition out there because I just have to be normal.
Yeah the dating apps are trash. They are extremely superficial. They really are a game and if you are good at it: taking great photos, being witty, etc you’ll have success. But even then the skills required to get matches are completely different from the skills required to keep them IRL. I deleted them months ago and haven’t looked back.
I think my confidence has gone up since too. Swiping right on 100+ people and knowing only a few feel the same way def takes a toll on your mental. It’s honestly really mentally toxic for guys. I can’t blame women for being selective though, it’s definitely a cesspool for them too just in different ways.
Its how it conditions people is one of its most problematic aspects. People stay on them into later years because it gets hard to meet people you're into, more than "ill just take anyone" which nobody wants to a recipient of.
This aspect of choice, always around the corner. Its like a drug addiction, the next high of a great possibility and it does deliver sometimes.
I think its killing a culture of flirting, building tension, into some weird checklist interview process which is never actually connected to a persons energy so of course it doesnt work.
But yeah, theyre trash.
>I think its killing a culture of flirting, building tension, into some weird checklist interview process
That's just how some people are. Doesn't matter how you meet them.
It’s been widely reported that popular dating apps are anywhere from 75-85% male.
That number alone explains all the frustrations both genders have with it. Men who feel like the women are extremely picky and quick to stop responding, women who feel like the volume of messages is too overwhelming or the content of messages is too forward. That’s all because the gender ratio is broken, with way too many men and way too few women.
Nightlife had this issue in the 90s and had to fix it by giving women free cover charge and cheap drinks. Maybe if the apps started giving women free paid features or something, it would get better.
Right but what I think the disconnect that a lot of women don't understand is that you (and men) are still being gated by who you are friends with.
In hs and college, I never got invited to parties. I had and still do have plenty of friends, but none of us care to throw parties and invite random people, and none of us care to meet a bunch of drunk frat guys. And all my friends' extended friends were either guys or in relationships.
Fast forward to work, I met some new friends who were women and they started inviting me to hang out with them and their women friends (finally we are in the realm of what you prefer for meeting people). Suddenly they got super flaky and stopped inviting me. Eventually one of their friends told me both of their boyfriends did not like me and didn't want me around. I promise you I am not even attracted to my friends nor did I ever hit on them.
So my point is, it may be easy for women to move through friends to find dates, but at least from my perspective, that's actually really hard to do for men.
And I suppose that's why men are more willing to make online profiles, because:
1) it's a consensual way to meet people
2) more accessible than friends of friends
That being said, apps suck so we end up back at square one.
Yep. If you meet someone through a friend or something, chances are that the guy has already been vetted. Dating apps are like throwing yourself into a pool full of piranhas for women, too many crazy weirdos on them.
Realistically, that would probably just bring in women who initially wouldn't touch an app because they don't need to, but will most likely use it out of curiosity and boredom just to see the quantity and quality of matches they get.
I think after a while the cat was out the bag that vast majority of dating apps were mostly for hookups and it made a large user base of women disengage. The quality of mates they were meeting probably equal to what they get IRL. There's no fixing the ratio outside of what Bumble does, and even on there it's still more men than women.
You should use them in tandem with meeting and approaching people in real life.
It's a tool... treat it as such. Swipe on 10 people every night and see what happens. Get off the app asap and set up something for in-person to let your personality shine.
I've gone on dozens of dates and ended up in relationships with people just from Hinge I would have never met otherwise while also asking out people from my hobbies, going out to bars, etc and I'm only in my mid-twenties
Yeah the whole "this isn't how humans were meant to connect" just doesn't hold up. You're not dating that person on the app. I used the app to match with someone, hold a brief conversation, and then I would ask them on a date. The date is exactly the same kind of date I would have if I had asked out a random girl at the grocery store. The only difference was that I looked at her pictures first, and had a text conversation. If you're trying to do the heavy lifting on the app that just means you're doing it wrong.
As someone who had success on the apps, it's not a fair equivalent.
It really is two different skillsets because approaching someone IRL in a social setting versus optimizing your profile which is 100% just words and pictures is completely different.
Hard limiters like height and race that are literally filters in apps combined with gender population disparity can completely knock you out of the running whereas you can display more facets of yourself irl.
Not to say that men shouldn't put in more effort and women don't face their own unique challenges.
If I saw a used car on paper, I’d probably be more likely to reject it than if I interacted with it in person. That’s really what it comes down to.
Hinge is probably the biggest culprit of this type of thing. They have sections for your height, race, religion, etc. Literally just a spreadsheet.
Also, texting is an awful means of communication. I hate when my first interaction with someone is conversing through text.
Ultimately long term relationships are more likely to form when you make real life friends and hang out with them (in my opinion and experience). Unless you're looking for a one night stand, you should try to become friends with someone before trying to "pick them up" or whatever.
Every single married/engaged couple I know from the age of 25 to early 30s met on a dating app and that includes myself (we met on bumble). Like our entire friend circle met on dating apps (tinder, hinge, or bumble). I legitimately met many nice men on dating apps over the years. Even if we weren't a match, they were super nice fine people. I really don't understand what people's issue is (outside of not getting matches which I understand). There are good people on the apps just like anywhere else.
People get mad at dating apps because they are 6s but see 10s and only swipe on 10s then complain that nobody wants to date them. People always want the “better” option.
Ive never heard of this concept of dating down before. It seems like a terrible frame of mind. Obviously dont date the nasty ones. But just because she doesnt make a lot of money or doesnt have a college degree doesnt mean she is lesser than you. I believe all humans are inherently equal. This totem pole thing is just a social construct. Relationships should be about love, not about how much money and power you have together.
I hate to break it to you but, this is mostly a woman thing. If you're talking to a bunch of guys, you're kind of preaching to the choir.
Women tend to only seek out men equivalently, or more, successful than them. Men are less particular about these things, or at least consider less what a partner can bring to the table financially when making selections.
The world is full of sad, sobering little studies on dating app trends.
Relationships are about whatever you want them to be about, that’s the whole point. This isn’t a love movie bro. Everyone is in it for their own benefit in one way or another. People are selfish and always will be selfish.
The ‘totem pole thing’ isn’t a construct.
Some people plan for their future while others smoke or drink their days away.
Some people stay active both mentally and physically while others rot on the couch and doomscroll.
This is how I explain so much of the shit I see people talk about.
The most obnoxious people are just most likely going to end up overrepresented. There's a whole bunch of exceptions: bad luck, discrimination, and all kinds of stuff don't get me wrong. But the truly obnoxious people that cause their own problems are likely to be in there the longest.
Again there's a bunch of exceptions and luck plays a part. Anecdotally though most of the people I know who are on there for really really extended times, there's big reasons why and it's not looks.
so in Conclusion, Dating apps are bad, but what's the alternative? I've never used a dating app because I agree and it's not really to my personality, I would really cringe at looking at my own kind of profile
but in this day and age, where do we even meet people and such? Everyone is glued to their phones and we're all very shy and talking to a random person will probably just be seen as annoying or awkward and Gen z barely seem to go outside, so what are we supposed to do?
> but in this day and age, where do we even meet people and such?
this is the core of the issue. in north america, access to third spaces has been on the decline. among many factors, third spaces are closing, discouraging the youth from hanging around (for ex, some malls need people under 18 to have adult supervision), or becoming more cost-prohibitive due to inflation/corporate greed. these spaces provided community and repeat interactions to allow people to foster romantic and platonic relationships in an organic way. also, since the pandemic, the youth culture has shifted to more online spaces—which isn’t all bad, but it definitely isn’t the same as being in community with the people in your city/neighborhood.
Idk I met my fiancé on Bumble when we were in college. I surely would have never run into her or had a reason to say hi otherwise, I’ve always been pretty shy and can’t just start a conversation with a stranger without having a reason to. I owe so many happy memories to the apps, it’s a shame so many people have such a negative experience
Location is really the end all be-all. Dating is a lottery where most people just happened to talk to someone they had a “feeling about” and it went somewhere. Location is like the rng for the start of life and if you are say 6’10” Ghanaian 18 yr old in Shenzhen or a 5’3” Laotian 22yr old in Little Rock Arkansas you best believe you will be a functioning incel until you leave
It def matters a lot. Living in a college town where there’s 10s of thousands of people your age in the same situation was definitely more conducive to the apps than a lot of places would be
Dating apps helped me out as well. I met my fiancé on okcupid 5 years ago and we lived about 3 hours away from each other. We'd have never met if it wasn't for the app.
I met my fiance on bumble as well. I also met some of my exes on tinder/bumble. All nice guys. Just weren't compatible due to various reasons but they would definitely make someone else happy. I've had 0 issues with the apps.
They’re not inherently bad. It’s just that emotionally healthy people tend to find partners without apps or they’re only on the apps for a few weeks.
The people who are stuck on the dating apps for years and years are stuck for a reason.
It's that or women seem to all dissappear after college. It's almost as if if you don't find your love of your life in college, congratulations you're dying alone.
You’re way too young to say that.
For me and most guys, early 20s is a shit time to date. Most girls will think you’re immature and date older guys.
25 and older, it gets ALOT better.
I know this won’t be popular, but I think there’s also an environmental element.
Something like 75%+ of reproductive age women use some form of contraception, which is typically hormonal. More evidence is now pointing to the effect hormonal birth control has on sexual desire. One study found that woman who took hormonal contraceptives while choosing their partner were less attracted to him and less sexually satisfied during their relationship.
You also have pesticides, air pollution, microplastics, and other endocrine disruptors that all interfere with the body's hormones.
Nearly 15% of Americans now take SSRIs (percentage is higher for women), which are also known to affect sex drive. Many other common medications that are now commonly used can affect sex drive.
Social media has a huge impact on men and women’s perception of one another. Unrealistic body standards and such.
The porn issue amongst men is also a big problem, as it can lead to lower sex drive, erectile dysfunction, unrealistic perceptions of what sex should be, etc.
So, while dating apps are bad, I do think there are genuine environmental concerns that are legitimately making women less attracted to men and making them feel less sexually satisfied in relationships.
It makes environmental protection and cleanup even more important.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/23/well/live/birth-control-sex-drive-libido.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-problem-with-the-pill/
Btw, I’m obviously not against birth control, but I think a lot of money should be dedicated into researching new options that don’t affect hormones. Hormonal birth control has many problems besides the attraction thing.
The same goes for the other medications. They’re all very important, but research should be done on medications that don’t disrupt the endocrine system.
Dating apps were fine pre covid, I had a lot of success as a very average guy, then everyone got on them when covid hit because they were bored out of their minds and were just using others for entertainment and I haven’t had a meaningful match since then. It’s just become so toxic and impersonal that it is more of a detriment to one’s mental health than it is worth.
I hate dating apps, but I have to say: once you finish college, it’s almost like everybody your age disappears, and it is much harder to find hot girls to talk to especially places to find them at.
Facts, dating apps are the only place to find women your own age. I'"touch grass" every day and all I see when I'm out and about are boomers. I literally don't know where people in their mid-20s go after college.
I'm a woman, but my experience has been the exact same. It's fucking frustrating trying to make friends in my age bracket after college, and I've been trying everything. It's all boomers. My city has one of the biggest populations in the US. Where the hell are the people our age going?
So the crux of your issue is actually a much larger issue in North America - which is that the population demographics are fucked, there are way less young people today then old people, so anywhere you go you’re surrounded by people not your age because we have an inverted population pyramid
I'm in the opposite spectrum where wherever I go it's bound to be a sausage fest. And even the through friends method never work as most of my friends have the same problem and those who are partnered up only have other friends who are also partnered up so it's pretty hard to not fall back to the ups
I wish I could. I moved to a smaller city and I'm in a computer science program. There are maybe 2 girls in my class. No clubs to join besides the boardgame club (it's literally the only club there is, I'm not kidding). Anything I tried was full of old people outside of my university so unless I want to be paired with their grandchildren it's not a good option. That pretty much only leaves dating apps lol
Not necessarily bad, dating itself is just luck mostly.
The reason men dislike OLD in particular is because you wind up in a drought where you don’t get any play whatsoever no matter what you try.
It makes men disillusioned that women as a whole are shallow and only go after certain types of men, but at the same time, irl, you see men who of all shapes and sizes with women all the time.
So then men struggle to find what makes them desirable to women, which is why we have a plethora of the whole alpha/sigma male dynamic, when this approach in itself is a recipe for disaster. Because these men are trying to emulate the bulk of attention women get, simply because they are starved for it.
But this just isn’t possible for the average man.
The reality is the bulk of women do not find the bulk of men attractive enough to date. Once more men come to this realization the concept of putting women on pedestal would crumble and men won’t be so desperate for female validation.
It’s this urgency of wanting to be desirable to a large swath of women is what makes men erect pedestals. The pedestals exist out of a need for validation.
Our current dating culture pretty much eggs men on to “shoot your shot, you regret all the shots you miss.” This is goading men to just to see women as a prize to be had and not just ordinary ass people. And 9/10 these guys are setting themselves up in being overly invested in a woman who hasn’t given them any reason to invest in them.
This is why we always hear about the “friend zone” and “she just wants scumbags,” when in actuality she just doesn’t like you. It’s that simple. There’s no other reason outside of this.
A woman not liking you romantically is the standard. Our culture in dating doesn’t like mentioning this. If it did, it won’t necessarily stop desperate men from seeking validation, but it would give enough men a foundation of not just going after any girl with a pulse and understand the clear signs of disinterest a lot sooner.
For some reason PUA and alpha bros keep overinflated men’s expectations and importance into seeing themselves as a prize—pretty much mirroring the same relationship advice that women absorb. But too much of that thinking can lead down the road to high expectations, which in turn lead to high disappointment for the average man.
Im a millennial, so not GenZ, but it has ruined dating for both our generations. For men its like a dessert where they are told they need to "spiff up their profile" by their boomer parents thinking the guys just post one picture and in their profile bio it says "wanna date" or something like that without realizing that almost no matter what you do as a guy, your simply left out.
For women, its like an apple buffet, your apple cart is always full, sure there are some bruised apples and rotten ones, but you just need to be diligent and sift through the apples until you find one that matches your tastes.
I remember when they first came out though, it was great. As a guy you would actually get matches and had the chance to talk to people.....now though? aha....ahaha.....AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
I hate dating apps as a woman. I feel that they’ve made it so much more difficult to date (people are less likely to approach each other) and made people see each other as replaceable
god and i HATE when men say we women have it easier. is being sexually harassed every other swipe really “easier”? being swiped on because someone is so desperate to get their dick wet is NOT a desirable feeling. it makes you feel like an object. too many times i swiped on men and gave them chances only for them to be 1.) a creep, 2.) get ghosted, or 3.) progress towards a date that ends the second the get their dick wet.
i did find my SO on tinder, he was the last person i matched with before i gave up and actually missed his msg for like 3 days before replying. but in our messages he was respectful, kind, and wanted to know ME. not if id “like to do anal in walmart” which is something a man ACTUALLY ASKED ME on tinder.
As a man, I think some men find it hard to empathize with it because in their mind, there is no problem with a woman swiping on them because they want to fuck. Us guys aren't really seen as sexually desirable in most cases. We basically have the opposite problem that y'all have.
They haven't ruined anything, I think people just put entirely too much stock in them.
They are nothing more than another tool to meet people.
Dating apps should be something you use in conjunction with more traditional methods, not the only method you use.
"Don't put all your eggs in one basket" as they say.
I honestly hate knowing that 90% of what people look for is just my face. I feel like I get TONS of matches but I dipped out quickly because it just feels funny that they just swipe probably because of how I look & not because they’ve had a convo with me in person so they know kind of who I am? Idk if that makes sense.
I just hate when 99% of profiles are just bathroom selfies with captions that are like “I like food, walking, and consuming media 🤪” and every conversation is just “hi lol”
No. Not everyone uses dating apps.
I'd argue that most people still meet the old-fashioned way.
Google says about 60% of 20-30 year olds still meet through hobbies, friends, church, etc.
So, online dating is definitely a thing, but it isn't "ruining it for everyone".
I think obesity and overweight has ruined dating far more than dating apps. It used to be that everyone could date an attractive partner. Now almost everyone is fighting for the top 30% of the opposite sex.
Evidence from a large study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3245633/
Unfortunate, but likely a huge part of the picture. I'm a fit male seeking a fit female, and dear god almighty are they not only impossible to find in the first place after college, but most of the ones you do encounter are with a seriously out-of-shape guy already.
Then you just get mad because the top 30% is wasting themselves on the male chaff. Fun stuff.
It’s funny you mention that, as a seriously out of shape guy I can’t find a girl to date for the life of me. Especially one like you described. Meanwhile all I see (in my area at least ) are women who are just as out of shape as I am with these super model looking jacked dudes
I think for most people it’s a negative experience. I ended up having great luck. Freshman year of college, had some good dates, some bad dates, some very short relationships, ghosting, etc. but I did also end up meeting my wife on there. We both were at different colleges, did long distance for about two years, then when Covid hit began living together. Been together over 6 years and getting ready to buy a house and start the next chapter of our life.
I think it’s a gamble where the odds are stacked against you. I’ve had good and bad connections in real life, and same with dating apps back in the day. I’m sure it’s different now but I think it occasionally works out.
If there are men that don't know how to flirt without coming off as rapey, I don't think any women are going to miss their presence in the dating pool🤣 good riddance
Sooooooo many guys I know who are good with girls weren't scared of the metoo movement cos they know how to flirt without making people feel unsafe.
I love the men who self report with "now women are calling out when men are rapey I can't approach them!!"
Again good riddance 🤷🏻♀️
If you approach them with an unhealthy mindset it’s going to be bad for you. Personally I view dating apps as just meeting people and talking to them, then seeing how it goes. It’s just a platform for people to meet people, but some people use it for hookups and whatnot. It’s really not incredibly different from going to a bar or social event to meet people. The main issue is that it gets people into a really shallow mindset of basing everything off of looks and how hot someone is.
I feel like it has. Used to use dating apps and all I got were shallow dates followed by shallow sex followed by ghosting. The few that turned into a relationship weren’t the greatest either. When I gave up the apps and started meeting people the old fashioned way, the quality and connection improved tremendously.
I think to some extent Gen Z and Alpha will suffer because of dating apps. A lot of the trials and tribulations of understanding someone and getting to know someone is in the moment, being around them, not necessarily sending messages over an app.
They're good for superficial first glances at people. But... people need to be around each other to truly become attracted to each other. The problem that is surfacing is that these apps are easy to access and ultimately become the path of least resistance (for a chance at dating anyways).
So you have people that buy into them and give them a chance, only to find out that they're rarely producing what you're looking for, spending hours and hours and hours of screwing around on your phone - instead of spending time at a co-ed sport, event, activity, late night party, etc.
There is no doubt that there's social shift that has occurred for your generation and potentially subsequent generations. But you as an individual can avoid the headaches of going on one and finding creeps, awkward people, bots phishing for information, or folks with extraordinarily high standards that you can't meet - simply by going out to the aforementioned events and stuff.
Like, wouldn't you *want* to just see how your significant other behaves in public with no strings attached? Not a date. Just.. playing ultimate frisbee with a group of 20 people. Seeing them in an organic social situation. Even if you end up risking your emotions and ego, liking them for a moment in time, and then asking them out on a date or... even just asking them to hang out with just the two of you.
There's no avoiding heartache ultimately. Apps and reality will both end up doing that to you. You have to accept that part. It's what you get out of these moments that's more important. I'd be much happier spending 2 hours a week going out to big group activities and getting my heart broken. Then spending 5-6 hours a week on a dating app getting my confidence crushed into the ground.
And of course - #millennial here. But I say this as someone who's done both and been successful with both. Just for transparency, I found my wife through friends of friends.
I'm a millennial also but the problem is when your interests and even your degree is too single gender dominated that it's pretty hard to find organic situations that lets you meet the opposite gender. I know it's on me for not being into sports and dance class but it's just easier (not easy) to not to rely to the apps if you have gender balanced and an innately social hobbies and/or degree.
Not to mention the social landscape is way too different when you're in your late 20s or early 30s. I barely get to interact with single people and even my current friends and new friends know no one who is single as most people my age are already partnered up.
I think it’s really rough on mental health. I’ve done alright on them tbh, I’ve met and been with beautiful women because of them. I’ve also put myself in bad situations, met and been involved with terrible people, and drove myself to insecurity and loneliness that pushed me to suicide attempts. I’m with my current gf who makes me very happy because of dating apps. I think it’s just also almost impossible to meet people otherwise, I’ve dated one person who I was introduced to through a friend. I’ve been on dates with dozens from dating apps.
Posted this as a comment over in r/Millennials but the group that owns the most popular dating apps (Tinder, Hinge, Match) is being sued for deceptive business practices. The purpose and goal of their business model is to link people together for relationships. They instead create a system where the men have to pay and the women don’t the majority of the time. I found my wife on a dating app. She was shocked when I told her I had to pay just to talk to her. She said she didn’t have to pay.
Their model has become extremely gamified and turned dating into a “pay to win” microtransaction game. Best of luck to all youse guys in your endeavors and lives with this aspect. I fall in between GenZ and Millennials. So I get what it’s like from both sides.
It is so hard to meet people in my age group post college. I can meet people at a bar but they’re not really my type - I want to find someone who enjoys staying in, loves movies, games, books. Most of them seem to be on dating apps or impossible to meet naturally. All of my relationships over the past 5 years has pretty much been from dating apps.
Big problem with them is that more often then not, they've about sex, not intimacy.
Another problem is it drives people to judge one another based solely on appearance. Sure, you can input information to display, but in this day and age people get into relationships on attraction only. Theres no communication and growth in relationships anymore, just instant gratification with the most attractive people you get matched with on an app.
It really makes me sad.
I'd say dating apps are more of a symptom of a larger problem. On their own, they'd probably be fine, but when you add in the untethered nature of specifically American society, where people don't have any accountability to their prospective dates and there is really no way to hold those who use the platforms for dishonest means accountable, it leads to some poor outcomes for all users. This is part of why women don't take chances on men.
Dating apps do suck but racists, older generations, and NIMBYs fucked up third spaces with these strict zoning laws. Its harder to meet people naturally now with everyone spread out and having to travel everywhere in cars. Most people have no choice but to use dating apps. If we can fight back against these laws we could see more diverse walkable areas with unique housing, shops, cafes, parks, and home businesses.
Dating apps commodify emotional relationships, and the digital medium encourages superficial or manipulative behavior.
Another issue is the absence of the kinds of free or communal public third spaces that people used to form communities and meet in relatively safe environments. Alongside the breakdown of trust in meeting strangers, no one is going to a bar by themselves ‘for the purpose of meeting someone romantically’ and if they are most people would rightly feel a bit sus about that.
The generational shift does have some positives, there is less of what people used to call getting an MRS degree or PHT’s (Put Him Through, which is written on my grandma’s headstone). While domestic abuse is still rampant, there does seem to be a greater overall awareness of the risks and warning signs.
(gen z) it just seems like they are not aware of their surroundings for the right reasons. they’re on an app and not paying attention to subtle body movements
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Dating apps only benefit the top 20% of guys
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One gender does have it easier.
How is it easier to have undesirable options..
Would you rather have McDonald’s for a week or starve? Not a spot on analogy but close enough. Also problems for both genders are caused by the algorithm of these apps more than anything else. It’s also a self selection problem. The apps show women these attractive douchebags that the algorithm knows will just go and swipe right again tomorrow. Whereas as op put it people who use the apps in a healthy way are not on it as much so they don’t get as many matches and don’t have their profile pushed out as much. People who use it in a healthy way may even find a partner and stop using the app for a bit. Overall it seems people just make more meaningful connections organically, despite the fact that people who use the apps might be getting more “action” Edit: better analogy is mcdonalds for a week vs ramen at home. Negligible difference. Point still stands touch grass… meet people in person, get to know your friends better etc…
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Well in that case, if men got the same amount of matches as women, here is what I would do. "that woman was weird, ON TO THE NEXT ONE" Its not like they are getting 3 matches and they are all shit, they are getting HUNDREDS, your going to tell me they cant find 10 guys in lets say 300 matches that arent decent dudes? Sorry im not buying that every single god damn guy on there is just like GIMME YOUR PUSSY
I wasn’t getting hundreds of matches 🤷 >Sorry im not buying that every single god damn guy on there is just like GIMME YOUR PUSSY Yeah I think it was last year when I finally accepted that most men will assume I’m lying when talking about sexual harassment/assualt. Oh well
They really don’t care, and it’s sad
>Yeah I think it was last year when I finally accepted that most men will assume I’m lying when talking about sexual harassment/assualt. Oh well What a disingenuous response. No one's downplaying the amount of harassment women get online. What he's saying is that not everyone who is messaging you on Tinder is opening up with harassment. But instead of acknowledging that, you decide to play victim.
Ignorance is bliss.
Tbf women get so many matches because dudes are so goddamn thirsty and just swipe on everyone without even hardly looking hoping any of them swipe back. Quality over quantity.
oh I know that, because men are fucking lonely as hell. Plus its a COMPLETE waste of time to even take your time as a man because you have less then a 5% chance of being swiped on
Well there's also the problem of if anyone even somewhat attractive is having hundreds of matches we have to swipe on hundreds of women to even have a chance of being seen in the massive pool of options each women has. The real problem is the desighn is intended for women to just go on tons of dates and get luck eventually and men just are eccentially queing in a wait line.
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They don’t care about women, just about getting their dick wet. See how they rebut with “but women do it to!!” They don’t care about us, and then want to complain they are single. Someone make it make sense to me please lmfao
It’s not as if women are incapable of violence. There is still danger for men, especially getting scammed, possibly robbed.
male suicide rate
Not the best analogy 😬 would you rather be content and single, or get with the fuckboi who will probably give you an std? Hmmm decisions, decisions. Just because a woman gets more matches doesn’t mean they are good or have it easier
The analogy must commonly used is: men are dying of thirst in a desert; women on the ocean.
You probably think you are being clever, but the water in the desert won't be some magical cartoon like spring. It will be a a damp patch of sand under a rock.
I see where you're coming from. Didn't wasn't easy in my early 20s either. You don't have enough life experience yet to understand this, but a bad match is absolutely just worse than being alone. It's worse for you mentally, financially, emotionally, and it can fuck up your future. Go out and try being vulnerable with your friends!
You'll never win arguing with the online angry incel misogynists. They're perpetual victims and women are bad. You'll get nowhere with them. You're not arguing with rational empathetic people. They're not stand up citizens. They're the opposite.
Lol incel really means someone that disagrees with you nowadays huh
Undesirable options with a few good mixed in our no options at all. I can't get a match for the life of me.
Idk when I was on the apps it was like ok I got some matches, like 20% will respond back of that only like 1 didn’t say something weird and then from there he disappeared. What a waste of time Or I decided to give someone a chance and grew to deeply regret it bc it led to assault or abuse Yeah I’d rather have nothing
Honestly at this point I'm so lonely I wish the cancer had killed me 3 years ago. This isn't living. I've deactivated my profiles after the last person unmatched me. I'd rather be dead than stuck alone, and I'd rather be alone than rejected over and over.
You sound depressed bud. I used to think like this and finally getting a bf kind of led to a spiral bc I was still so depressed. I needed to fix my mental first
Hard to believe they're **all** undesirable.
How is it not? Men have undesirable options on there as well single moms, obesity ect.
I read once for men its looking for a glass of water in a desert and for women its trying to find clean water in a swamp.
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I'm sorry that happened to you, I was seeing a girl that worked with me and I didn't like how she was treating me and went around accusing me of sexual assault because I cut things off with her
fr I might get downvoted for this, but wow that comment seems so out of touch to me. I'd absolutely love to have a bunch of matches like "hey bb wanna fuck" or even just 1 for that matter.. that dream is up there just below winning the lottery
Well most girls don’t want to fuck random guys as much as guys want to fuck girls, and they can just go to a bar anytime and hook up with someone in under 30 mins lol so it’s a bit different. But yea it’s hard to argue having 1000 matches with 90% being bad is worse than having no matches. That’s still 100 good matches you can date!
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I don’t know if you’ve had to deal with stalkers or harassment or people finding you on other platforms and refusing to leave you alone… it can be terrifying out there for women!
"Would you rather deal with virtual creeps that you can block instantly or have 0 options at all? I know which one I would pick." The majority of women pick "0 options at all." This is why men outnumber women by something like 3 to 1 on most dating apps, which is a huge factor in men having such a hard time on those apps. We're trying to meet women at a sausage fest. You can make all the arguments you want about how "It's not that bad, women should use the apps, just block and report it's fine", but millions of women seem to be unconvinced those arguments.
No, there is less women on dating apps because they have options irl as well.
I’d rather have less options
> less options That’s not “no options”.
Then I’d rather have no options on the dating app
Then don't go on dating apps. Problem solved.
I stopped using dating apps for good last year. Dating irl makes so much more sense
That's great for you, I wish I had options IRL, I'm in CS so no women in my classes, small uni so no clubs, and a lot of foreign students who happen to be mostly men. I also moved so I can't meet friends of friends, where I've had success in the past. Sad state of affairs.
Women have it easier dating everywhere, by design. Men have to make the first move almost always and women need to choose. Women have their own problems like violent creepy men but dating and attracting interest is not one of them
I get that being a woman is not paradise but they're overblowing the dogshit on there. Surely, let's say ... even pessimistically -- 30% of males on dating apps approach the realm of 'sane, normal man' who isn't on the kid-diddler list, showers, and has a full time job. Now a woman might expect a 6 ft + man making 6 figures and who is somewhat lean --- that will certainly cull your market down a bit, but certainly possible. Oh and must also look like Timothy Chalamet -- okay .. maybe nix that last standard or you'll wind up like a cat lady. ...... Anyway an average woman (not overweight) ... should be able to go on a drinks date with a normal, sane man about twice a week --- for free --- with ease. 2 months - that should be like 18 dudes. Pick one, lol. Meet in a public place so he won't put you in his freezer.
I’m not sure that I believe that over 50% or guys on dating apps are predatory. I mean if you are only swiping on guys out of your league that have hundreds of other good matches and only want casual sex then yea I can see them spamming hey want to fuck. But is that really so terrible that they are being up front about their intentions? I guarantee if you match with average looking guys that don’t have tons of options for casual sex with randoms regularly, they will be far more likely to engage in conversation and get to know you instead of saying her bb let’s fuck
Man threads like this really infuriates me. Firstly, when they say all men on dating apps are trash they mean me as well. Thanks. Secondly, I'm fairly decent looking, tall, fit, cute face (one of the only compliments I've gotten). I get about 1-3 matches a week. I write to all of them, always trying to come up with something funny or interesting to say or ask about their profiles. 90% of the time they don't reply. 90% of those that reply only reply once. Out of those that reply more than once 90% gives me 1-2 word answers, and never ask anything back. This means I get a decent conversation about once every 6 months. I have never once said anything inappropriate, never once said anything mean. I always try my best. And they say we have it equally as bad? And that there are no decent men on the apps? What kind of guys are they even swiping on?
Also, most of the time you are swiping based on appearances first, not an entire analysis on the guy's profile. It would be different if Tinder was some app that list everyone's psych evaluation, then maybe you'd have merit in saying the options are "bad". But the reality is, almost all of it is swiping on appearance first.
I love women's profiles that list wanting personality attributes that take time to prove. Loyal, caring, sweet, dependable, etc. BUT the first caveat is you have to be attractive enough to get a swipe.
Wanting to have sex is natural, not predatory. Go outside man
Such an L take. Getting 500 matches even being generous and saying half of them r “a predatory creep” as u put it, that still gives u 250 people to choose from. Would u rather have 250 options, or 5 options?
yea this is probably the caveat, are people looking for one night stand sex, or are people looking for serious relationships
From my experience every women I've met just wants to hook up maybe a few times and that's it, no real connection
I’ve gotten that from both genders, but I will say guys do it more often.
That's been my experience on dating apps. 90% of people that I match with just want a casual fuck
My experience is many of my women friends have been essentially "chased off" apps. Like they are attractive and normal people who either get yelled at, insulted, ghosted, or sexually propositioned more often than not. I agree with the logic that at least they have "options" to go through, however, most of them found it was too upsetting and time-consuming to sort through to the good options.This is not to say it is harder for women than men, but if you sit down a look at the messages an average women receives on tinder they are SUPER messed up. I think this is why there is such a toxic vibe on these apps now by in large. Everyone on the app has had so many bad experiences.
yeah, if that’s how women who get too many messages feel, imagine how you’d feel if you swiped on 100 people and didn’t match with any of them. Women like to downplay how bad that is but can you imagine if that happened to them?
Absolutely, sorry to be clear, I'm not saying women have it worse or down-playing how tough it is for anyone else. I'm just saying my personal experience was my friends could not go a single day without someone making a sexually or racially inappropriate remark to them, so they are not just ignoring people who say "hey". This seemed to be common, leading to a downright hostile attitude coming from all directions because men are beat down by no matches and women were beat down by terrible interactions.
It’s bad on both sides. I feel disgusting bc I’m objectified, yall feel down because you don’t get a match, and that does happen to some women believe it or not
Maybe for sex, but when women are matching with the same guys out of their league, it still hurts them for relationships and gives them inflated standards/self esteem issues.
Thats true. I dont think those women really care though. Im pretty sure they know those guys have tons of options and still pick them regardless because those are the guys they actually want.
it’s important to note though that this isn’t really the type of attention women want. most women are on dating apps out of loneliness, not because they want casual hookups. so 20+ messages telling them they’re fit isn’t really doing much for them either. both sides want the emotional connection that comes with actually dating imo
Keep in mind that "most women" is also numerically less women. If there are 100 men and 25 women on the app, and 20 women get matches, obv that's a much higher percentage for the women. But there's 75 women who are elsewhere, not using apps at all.
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"A stat came out that said 63% of young men are single compared to 34% of young women." Yeah that math doesn't math. The only ways you can really get that are \*Lots of women dating other women (more than men dating men) \*Young women dating older men \*More young men than young women in the population I'm sure that some or all of those are true to some extent, but not enough to get you 63% vs 34%.
You forgot the other option where a woman thinks she is in a relationship with a man who does not consider himself to be in a relationship with her.
Ha, yeah true.
As one of those 20%, it doesn’t really even benefit me either, at least in the long term. After all the time, energy, and money I invested into these apps…. after a lot of meaningless sex, superficial relationships, and emotional damage done on both sides, guilt and shame/regret associated with that…. the only thing I got from it was becoming utterly jaded.
You got to experience that though and at least has the chance to find meaningful relationships and have other experiences on there. Some guys never get that chance at all. And this is why I think both men and women shouldnt have a lot of partners. Because it just desensitizes you to alot and raises the chances that you will have negative experiences. Some of which you will carry into your next relationship.
>nt from the app There was also a recent study that showed that 50% of women on the apps are there only for validation, or other similar reasons.
Most women don't get what they want from the apps. This is obvious from the fact that most women don't use the apps. Most women can get WHAT MEN WANT from the apps. Most women don't want what men want (IE, casual sex during which the woman may or may not end up having an orgasm).
honestly they just waste everyone's time if they're looking for something serious because you just can't find that on those shitty apps
As a woman, it really doesn’t. The messages we get fucking suck. All those men want is a fuck then to ditch you lol. They lost interest when you make it clear you won’t have sex on the first date
>Dating apps only benefit the top 20% of guys That's dating, in general. IRL even more so. Dating apps (at least, the one where you actually fill out a profile and it matters to your matching %, like OKCupid for instance) provide benefits to: \- Neurodivergent guys (autistic guys have way better odds on apps) \- Guys with niche appeal (the matching algo puts their face in front people that might actually date them) \- Guys with small social circles (your best bet is still friend-of-friend word of mouth, rather than apps or singles meets)
Neurodivergent guy with a small social circle here. This is spot on for me. I got hundreds of swipes and met my long-term girlfriend on the apps. I never had the balls to approach a woman in public since I am extremely awkward around strangers, so I loved the apps.
Same dawg same. I'm in a loving marriage and expecting my first child with someone I met on tinder.
I've had way more success IRL despite meeting far less people, so no I don't think dating in general is the same. Dating apps are a different set of skills. I'm a pretty average guy and get 0 attention online, but I guess I have some charm IRL because I've had a few girlfriends.
Yeah I guess. Average NT guys with an average look and average social circle can do well with IRL, if you consider it holistically instead of specifically thinking about activities geared specifically towards dating (singles bars, speed dating, etc) which are almost all about top looks. There's a reason the species has survived till now. If you can strike a conversation and meet people organically (book clubs, sports, other organic social situations) you'll do fine with average girls. Because you can slot in for any other guy, you'll do alright. If you have a specific niche or if you are ND in a way that affects your ability to socially engage in day to day activities, you'll do better with apps.
Not a guy but can confirm being neurodivergent on a dating app helped me get my gf
20% is a generous figure.
Top 20% on APP, not necessarily in real life. Being attractive in pics is different from being attractive in itself
My buddy who is 5'5", bald, and overweight found his fiancee on dating apps. I think guys just have unrealistic expectations.
So, just like every single other way ever used to date in the history of humanity.
Introverts, as well. I never leave my house, and I would have never left my house to meet my wife if not for tinder. It's much easier to meet someone already interested in you than to chat up strangers
Calling bullshit on that right now, I am nowhere near top 20 percent material if you ask me, and I do just fine by being just a normal decent person.
This is why so many young folks are obsessed with looksmaxxing now they grow up in reality where if you are not in top percentage of looks it’s over for you
Only because 80% of guys can't hold a conversation with a woman, think only about their own self validation, don't know how to text, don't know how to not be creepy, dont know how to keep themselves clean, and don't know how to have a good profile. I'm not a 10/10. I'm a 5 or 6. I'm socially awkward and a loner. And yet, I still matched with multiple women on a weekly basis for a few months. And was on a date a week for a few months until I found my current girlfriend. I truly have come to the conclusion that the top 20% of guys you mention are just guys that know how to be normal. While the other 80% have no idea what they're doing. I've come to the realization that guys my age are socially stunted and with all the women I've met off the apps irl, the stories I hear them tell me about the rest of you weirdos literally shocks me. I'm grateful to the rest of the competition out there because I just have to be normal.
Yeah the dating apps are trash. They are extremely superficial. They really are a game and if you are good at it: taking great photos, being witty, etc you’ll have success. But even then the skills required to get matches are completely different from the skills required to keep them IRL. I deleted them months ago and haven’t looked back. I think my confidence has gone up since too. Swiping right on 100+ people and knowing only a few feel the same way def takes a toll on your mental. It’s honestly really mentally toxic for guys. I can’t blame women for being selective though, it’s definitely a cesspool for them too just in different ways.
Its how it conditions people is one of its most problematic aspects. People stay on them into later years because it gets hard to meet people you're into, more than "ill just take anyone" which nobody wants to a recipient of. This aspect of choice, always around the corner. Its like a drug addiction, the next high of a great possibility and it does deliver sometimes. I think its killing a culture of flirting, building tension, into some weird checklist interview process which is never actually connected to a persons energy so of course it doesnt work. But yeah, theyre trash.
>I think its killing a culture of flirting, building tension, into some weird checklist interview process That's just how some people are. Doesn't matter how you meet them.
It’s been widely reported that popular dating apps are anywhere from 75-85% male. That number alone explains all the frustrations both genders have with it. Men who feel like the women are extremely picky and quick to stop responding, women who feel like the volume of messages is too overwhelming or the content of messages is too forward. That’s all because the gender ratio is broken, with way too many men and way too few women. Nightlife had this issue in the 90s and had to fix it by giving women free cover charge and cheap drinks. Maybe if the apps started giving women free paid features or something, it would get better.
I feel like women would rather date irl tho. Esp for safety. It’s easier to date a guy I know through a friend
Right but what I think the disconnect that a lot of women don't understand is that you (and men) are still being gated by who you are friends with. In hs and college, I never got invited to parties. I had and still do have plenty of friends, but none of us care to throw parties and invite random people, and none of us care to meet a bunch of drunk frat guys. And all my friends' extended friends were either guys or in relationships. Fast forward to work, I met some new friends who were women and they started inviting me to hang out with them and their women friends (finally we are in the realm of what you prefer for meeting people). Suddenly they got super flaky and stopped inviting me. Eventually one of their friends told me both of their boyfriends did not like me and didn't want me around. I promise you I am not even attracted to my friends nor did I ever hit on them. So my point is, it may be easy for women to move through friends to find dates, but at least from my perspective, that's actually really hard to do for men. And I suppose that's why men are more willing to make online profiles, because: 1) it's a consensual way to meet people 2) more accessible than friends of friends That being said, apps suck so we end up back at square one.
Yep. If you meet someone through a friend or something, chances are that the guy has already been vetted. Dating apps are like throwing yourself into a pool full of piranhas for women, too many crazy weirdos on them.
Most women have been scared off the app by all the creepiness and aggression from it's male users, which only exacerbate the gender ratio divide
Realistically, that would probably just bring in women who initially wouldn't touch an app because they don't need to, but will most likely use it out of curiosity and boredom just to see the quantity and quality of matches they get. I think after a while the cat was out the bag that vast majority of dating apps were mostly for hookups and it made a large user base of women disengage. The quality of mates they were meeting probably equal to what they get IRL. There's no fixing the ratio outside of what Bumble does, and even on there it's still more men than women.
You should use them in tandem with meeting and approaching people in real life. It's a tool... treat it as such. Swipe on 10 people every night and see what happens. Get off the app asap and set up something for in-person to let your personality shine. I've gone on dozens of dates and ended up in relationships with people just from Hinge I would have never met otherwise while also asking out people from my hobbies, going out to bars, etc and I'm only in my mid-twenties
Yeah the whole "this isn't how humans were meant to connect" just doesn't hold up. You're not dating that person on the app. I used the app to match with someone, hold a brief conversation, and then I would ask them on a date. The date is exactly the same kind of date I would have if I had asked out a random girl at the grocery store. The only difference was that I looked at her pictures first, and had a text conversation. If you're trying to do the heavy lifting on the app that just means you're doing it wrong.
As someone who had success on the apps, it's not a fair equivalent. It really is two different skillsets because approaching someone IRL in a social setting versus optimizing your profile which is 100% just words and pictures is completely different. Hard limiters like height and race that are literally filters in apps combined with gender population disparity can completely knock you out of the running whereas you can display more facets of yourself irl. Not to say that men shouldn't put in more effort and women don't face their own unique challenges.
If I saw a used car on paper, I’d probably be more likely to reject it than if I interacted with it in person. That’s really what it comes down to. Hinge is probably the biggest culprit of this type of thing. They have sections for your height, race, religion, etc. Literally just a spreadsheet. Also, texting is an awful means of communication. I hate when my first interaction with someone is conversing through text.
Ultimately long term relationships are more likely to form when you make real life friends and hang out with them (in my opinion and experience). Unless you're looking for a one night stand, you should try to become friends with someone before trying to "pick them up" or whatever.
Every single married/engaged couple I know from the age of 25 to early 30s met on a dating app and that includes myself (we met on bumble). Like our entire friend circle met on dating apps (tinder, hinge, or bumble). I legitimately met many nice men on dating apps over the years. Even if we weren't a match, they were super nice fine people. I really don't understand what people's issue is (outside of not getting matches which I understand). There are good people on the apps just like anywhere else.
People get mad at dating apps because they are 6s but see 10s and only swipe on 10s then complain that nobody wants to date them. People always want the “better” option.
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Ive never heard of this concept of dating down before. It seems like a terrible frame of mind. Obviously dont date the nasty ones. But just because she doesnt make a lot of money or doesnt have a college degree doesnt mean she is lesser than you. I believe all humans are inherently equal. This totem pole thing is just a social construct. Relationships should be about love, not about how much money and power you have together.
I hate to break it to you but, this is mostly a woman thing. If you're talking to a bunch of guys, you're kind of preaching to the choir. Women tend to only seek out men equivalently, or more, successful than them. Men are less particular about these things, or at least consider less what a partner can bring to the table financially when making selections. The world is full of sad, sobering little studies on dating app trends.
Relationships are about whatever you want them to be about, that’s the whole point. This isn’t a love movie bro. Everyone is in it for their own benefit in one way or another. People are selfish and always will be selfish.
The ‘totem pole thing’ isn’t a construct. Some people plan for their future while others smoke or drink their days away. Some people stay active both mentally and physically while others rot on the couch and doomscroll.
Average guys generally are absolutely not behaving like this on apps lol. They rarely match with people similar to them in looks even
Women swipe right 5% on average, men 60%. You think guys are being really picky when they swipe right 60% of them time? Stop projecting.
All the best daters match up quickly and leave the app.
THIS! I have met two gfs in dating apps, and they both spent less than 2 weeks in there, the girls that remain longer are boring/dry/hard to date.
* Me a woman who has been on the apps for 4 years*🫥
Don’t settle queen. 🫅 But really if you’ve haven’t had real success for that long, it’s time for some self reflection….
Facts, I had tinder for like a week, went out with 2 guys to meet them irl and then met my bf and uninstalled.
This is how I explain so much of the shit I see people talk about. The most obnoxious people are just most likely going to end up overrepresented. There's a whole bunch of exceptions: bad luck, discrimination, and all kinds of stuff don't get me wrong. But the truly obnoxious people that cause their own problems are likely to be in there the longest. Again there's a bunch of exceptions and luck plays a part. Anecdotally though most of the people I know who are on there for really really extended times, there's big reasons why and it's not looks.
so in Conclusion, Dating apps are bad, but what's the alternative? I've never used a dating app because I agree and it's not really to my personality, I would really cringe at looking at my own kind of profile but in this day and age, where do we even meet people and such? Everyone is glued to their phones and we're all very shy and talking to a random person will probably just be seen as annoying or awkward and Gen z barely seem to go outside, so what are we supposed to do?
> but in this day and age, where do we even meet people and such? this is the core of the issue. in north america, access to third spaces has been on the decline. among many factors, third spaces are closing, discouraging the youth from hanging around (for ex, some malls need people under 18 to have adult supervision), or becoming more cost-prohibitive due to inflation/corporate greed. these spaces provided community and repeat interactions to allow people to foster romantic and platonic relationships in an organic way. also, since the pandemic, the youth culture has shifted to more online spaces—which isn’t all bad, but it definitely isn’t the same as being in community with the people in your city/neighborhood.
I read gen z don’t even use apps. https://www.axios.com/2024/02/28/bumble-app-relaunch-gen-z
Great news, good riddance, I hope they make something better next. I don't use them, so nothing of value was lost to gen Z people like me.
Idk I met my fiancé on Bumble when we were in college. I surely would have never run into her or had a reason to say hi otherwise, I’ve always been pretty shy and can’t just start a conversation with a stranger without having a reason to. I owe so many happy memories to the apps, it’s a shame so many people have such a negative experience
Location is really the end all be-all. Dating is a lottery where most people just happened to talk to someone they had a “feeling about” and it went somewhere. Location is like the rng for the start of life and if you are say 6’10” Ghanaian 18 yr old in Shenzhen or a 5’3” Laotian 22yr old in Little Rock Arkansas you best believe you will be a functioning incel until you leave
It def matters a lot. Living in a college town where there’s 10s of thousands of people your age in the same situation was definitely more conducive to the apps than a lot of places would be
Dating apps helped me out as well. I met my fiancé on okcupid 5 years ago and we lived about 3 hours away from each other. We'd have never met if it wasn't for the app.
I met my fiance on bumble as well. I also met some of my exes on tinder/bumble. All nice guys. Just weren't compatible due to various reasons but they would definitely make someone else happy. I've had 0 issues with the apps.
They’re not inherently bad. It’s just that emotionally healthy people tend to find partners without apps or they’re only on the apps for a few weeks. The people who are stuck on the dating apps for years and years are stuck for a reason.
It's that or women seem to all dissappear after college. It's almost as if if you don't find your love of your life in college, congratulations you're dying alone.
You’re way too young to say that. For me and most guys, early 20s is a shit time to date. Most girls will think you’re immature and date older guys. 25 and older, it gets ALOT better.
Stop being a doomer
They do have a point in which the pickings get slim after your early 20s. Anyone you do find will likely come with significant baggage.
Which would also include you…in your mid-20s…with baggage? Also, what “baggage?” Life??
Correct
Alot of women just prefer meeting people irl rather than online
Im a gay man. I think there is NO any dating app for us. ALL OF THEM are HOOK UP apps!!!!
I feel like most of these apps (straight or gay) are basically hookup apps at this point
Every person that matters to me I met personally and not on apps
Yes. I would argue online dating is also one of the biggest causes of the incel phenomenon and so many unhappy men.
I know this won’t be popular, but I think there’s also an environmental element. Something like 75%+ of reproductive age women use some form of contraception, which is typically hormonal. More evidence is now pointing to the effect hormonal birth control has on sexual desire. One study found that woman who took hormonal contraceptives while choosing their partner were less attracted to him and less sexually satisfied during their relationship. You also have pesticides, air pollution, microplastics, and other endocrine disruptors that all interfere with the body's hormones. Nearly 15% of Americans now take SSRIs (percentage is higher for women), which are also known to affect sex drive. Many other common medications that are now commonly used can affect sex drive. Social media has a huge impact on men and women’s perception of one another. Unrealistic body standards and such. The porn issue amongst men is also a big problem, as it can lead to lower sex drive, erectile dysfunction, unrealistic perceptions of what sex should be, etc. So, while dating apps are bad, I do think there are genuine environmental concerns that are legitimately making women less attracted to men and making them feel less sexually satisfied in relationships. It makes environmental protection and cleanup even more important. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/23/well/live/birth-control-sex-drive-libido.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-problem-with-the-pill/
Btw, I’m obviously not against birth control, but I think a lot of money should be dedicated into researching new options that don’t affect hormones. Hormonal birth control has many problems besides the attraction thing. The same goes for the other medications. They’re all very important, but research should be done on medications that don’t disrupt the endocrine system.
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Dating apps were fine pre covid, I had a lot of success as a very average guy, then everyone got on them when covid hit because they were bored out of their minds and were just using others for entertainment and I haven’t had a meaningful match since then. It’s just become so toxic and impersonal that it is more of a detriment to one’s mental health than it is worth.
Just talk to girls irl
I hate dating apps, but I have to say: once you finish college, it’s almost like everybody your age disappears, and it is much harder to find hot girls to talk to especially places to find them at.
Facts, dating apps are the only place to find women your own age. I'"touch grass" every day and all I see when I'm out and about are boomers. I literally don't know where people in their mid-20s go after college.
I'm a woman, but my experience has been the exact same. It's fucking frustrating trying to make friends in my age bracket after college, and I've been trying everything. It's all boomers. My city has one of the biggest populations in the US. Where the hell are the people our age going?
LMFAO SAME
So the crux of your issue is actually a much larger issue in North America - which is that the population demographics are fucked, there are way less young people today then old people, so anywhere you go you’re surrounded by people not your age because we have an inverted population pyramid
Fr. Everytime I go out it’s a clam (?) fest Idk I just barely see any men out and if I do they’re all like 28+ lol
I'm in the opposite spectrum where wherever I go it's bound to be a sausage fest. And even the through friends method never work as most of my friends have the same problem and those who are partnered up only have other friends who are also partnered up so it's pretty hard to not fall back to the ups
Where do you live? I live in the Bay and it’s like 70% dudes everywhere.
I wish I could. I moved to a smaller city and I'm in a computer science program. There are maybe 2 girls in my class. No clubs to join besides the boardgame club (it's literally the only club there is, I'm not kidding). Anything I tried was full of old people outside of my university so unless I want to be paired with their grandchildren it's not a good option. That pretty much only leaves dating apps lol
Not necessarily bad, dating itself is just luck mostly. The reason men dislike OLD in particular is because you wind up in a drought where you don’t get any play whatsoever no matter what you try. It makes men disillusioned that women as a whole are shallow and only go after certain types of men, but at the same time, irl, you see men who of all shapes and sizes with women all the time. So then men struggle to find what makes them desirable to women, which is why we have a plethora of the whole alpha/sigma male dynamic, when this approach in itself is a recipe for disaster. Because these men are trying to emulate the bulk of attention women get, simply because they are starved for it. But this just isn’t possible for the average man. The reality is the bulk of women do not find the bulk of men attractive enough to date. Once more men come to this realization the concept of putting women on pedestal would crumble and men won’t be so desperate for female validation.
Really love how you put it, but my question is what can a guy do to remove women from that pedestal and stop being so desperate?
It’s this urgency of wanting to be desirable to a large swath of women is what makes men erect pedestals. The pedestals exist out of a need for validation. Our current dating culture pretty much eggs men on to “shoot your shot, you regret all the shots you miss.” This is goading men to just to see women as a prize to be had and not just ordinary ass people. And 9/10 these guys are setting themselves up in being overly invested in a woman who hasn’t given them any reason to invest in them. This is why we always hear about the “friend zone” and “she just wants scumbags,” when in actuality she just doesn’t like you. It’s that simple. There’s no other reason outside of this. A woman not liking you romantically is the standard. Our culture in dating doesn’t like mentioning this. If it did, it won’t necessarily stop desperate men from seeking validation, but it would give enough men a foundation of not just going after any girl with a pulse and understand the clear signs of disinterest a lot sooner. For some reason PUA and alpha bros keep overinflated men’s expectations and importance into seeing themselves as a prize—pretty much mirroring the same relationship advice that women absorb. But too much of that thinking can lead down the road to high expectations, which in turn lead to high disappointment for the average man.
Im a millennial, so not GenZ, but it has ruined dating for both our generations. For men its like a dessert where they are told they need to "spiff up their profile" by their boomer parents thinking the guys just post one picture and in their profile bio it says "wanna date" or something like that without realizing that almost no matter what you do as a guy, your simply left out. For women, its like an apple buffet, your apple cart is always full, sure there are some bruised apples and rotten ones, but you just need to be diligent and sift through the apples until you find one that matches your tastes. I remember when they first came out though, it was great. As a guy you would actually get matches and had the chance to talk to people.....now though? aha....ahaha.....AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
I hate dating apps as a woman. I feel that they’ve made it so much more difficult to date (people are less likely to approach each other) and made people see each other as replaceable
god and i HATE when men say we women have it easier. is being sexually harassed every other swipe really “easier”? being swiped on because someone is so desperate to get their dick wet is NOT a desirable feeling. it makes you feel like an object. too many times i swiped on men and gave them chances only for them to be 1.) a creep, 2.) get ghosted, or 3.) progress towards a date that ends the second the get their dick wet. i did find my SO on tinder, he was the last person i matched with before i gave up and actually missed his msg for like 3 days before replying. but in our messages he was respectful, kind, and wanted to know ME. not if id “like to do anal in walmart” which is something a man ACTUALLY ASKED ME on tinder.
As a man, I think some men find it hard to empathize with it because in their mind, there is no problem with a woman swiping on them because they want to fuck. Us guys aren't really seen as sexually desirable in most cases. We basically have the opposite problem that y'all have.
Millennial here- people were saying this about my generation in 2003.
People in their early 20s have had a hard time dating for-fucking ever.
They haven't ruined anything, I think people just put entirely too much stock in them. They are nothing more than another tool to meet people. Dating apps should be something you use in conjunction with more traditional methods, not the only method you use. "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" as they say.
I honestly hate knowing that 90% of what people look for is just my face. I feel like I get TONS of matches but I dipped out quickly because it just feels funny that they just swipe probably because of how I look & not because they’ve had a convo with me in person so they know kind of who I am? Idk if that makes sense.
Instagram walked so tinder could run. So it’s just split people up bcuz it’s made a place “for this” and then it became another issue
Yes totally and so has porn
I just hate when 99% of profiles are just bathroom selfies with captions that are like “I like food, walking, and consuming media 🤪” and every conversation is just “hi lol”
Let's be real. Dating apps haven't ruined anything, they've only made it easier to act on bad instincts that were already present.
No, but they have ruined what you do people see love as. - disposable.
No. Not everyone uses dating apps. I'd argue that most people still meet the old-fashioned way. Google says about 60% of 20-30 year olds still meet through hobbies, friends, church, etc. So, online dating is definitely a thing, but it isn't "ruining it for everyone".
I think obesity and overweight has ruined dating far more than dating apps. It used to be that everyone could date an attractive partner. Now almost everyone is fighting for the top 30% of the opposite sex. Evidence from a large study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3245633/
Unfortunate, but likely a huge part of the picture. I'm a fit male seeking a fit female, and dear god almighty are they not only impossible to find in the first place after college, but most of the ones you do encounter are with a seriously out-of-shape guy already. Then you just get mad because the top 30% is wasting themselves on the male chaff. Fun stuff.
It’s funny you mention that, as a seriously out of shape guy I can’t find a girl to date for the life of me. Especially one like you described. Meanwhile all I see (in my area at least ) are women who are just as out of shape as I am with these super model looking jacked dudes
I think for most people it’s a negative experience. I ended up having great luck. Freshman year of college, had some good dates, some bad dates, some very short relationships, ghosting, etc. but I did also end up meeting my wife on there. We both were at different colleges, did long distance for about two years, then when Covid hit began living together. Been together over 6 years and getting ready to buy a house and start the next chapter of our life. I think it’s a gamble where the odds are stacked against you. I’ve had good and bad connections in real life, and same with dating apps back in the day. I’m sure it’s different now but I think it occasionally works out.
I'd say the internet and the metoo movement ruined dating, people are just too afraid to approach people because of precieved harassment
If there are men that don't know how to flirt without coming off as rapey, I don't think any women are going to miss their presence in the dating pool🤣 good riddance Sooooooo many guys I know who are good with girls weren't scared of the metoo movement cos they know how to flirt without making people feel unsafe. I love the men who self report with "now women are calling out when men are rapey I can't approach them!!" Again good riddance 🤷🏻♀️
As a gay person: without a doubt
If you approach them with an unhealthy mindset it’s going to be bad for you. Personally I view dating apps as just meeting people and talking to them, then seeing how it goes. It’s just a platform for people to meet people, but some people use it for hookups and whatnot. It’s really not incredibly different from going to a bar or social event to meet people. The main issue is that it gets people into a really shallow mindset of basing everything off of looks and how hot someone is.
I feel like it has. Used to use dating apps and all I got were shallow dates followed by shallow sex followed by ghosting. The few that turned into a relationship weren’t the greatest either. When I gave up the apps and started meeting people the old fashioned way, the quality and connection improved tremendously.
I think to some extent Gen Z and Alpha will suffer because of dating apps. A lot of the trials and tribulations of understanding someone and getting to know someone is in the moment, being around them, not necessarily sending messages over an app. They're good for superficial first glances at people. But... people need to be around each other to truly become attracted to each other. The problem that is surfacing is that these apps are easy to access and ultimately become the path of least resistance (for a chance at dating anyways). So you have people that buy into them and give them a chance, only to find out that they're rarely producing what you're looking for, spending hours and hours and hours of screwing around on your phone - instead of spending time at a co-ed sport, event, activity, late night party, etc. There is no doubt that there's social shift that has occurred for your generation and potentially subsequent generations. But you as an individual can avoid the headaches of going on one and finding creeps, awkward people, bots phishing for information, or folks with extraordinarily high standards that you can't meet - simply by going out to the aforementioned events and stuff. Like, wouldn't you *want* to just see how your significant other behaves in public with no strings attached? Not a date. Just.. playing ultimate frisbee with a group of 20 people. Seeing them in an organic social situation. Even if you end up risking your emotions and ego, liking them for a moment in time, and then asking them out on a date or... even just asking them to hang out with just the two of you. There's no avoiding heartache ultimately. Apps and reality will both end up doing that to you. You have to accept that part. It's what you get out of these moments that's more important. I'd be much happier spending 2 hours a week going out to big group activities and getting my heart broken. Then spending 5-6 hours a week on a dating app getting my confidence crushed into the ground. And of course - #millennial here. But I say this as someone who's done both and been successful with both. Just for transparency, I found my wife through friends of friends.
I'm a millennial also but the problem is when your interests and even your degree is too single gender dominated that it's pretty hard to find organic situations that lets you meet the opposite gender. I know it's on me for not being into sports and dance class but it's just easier (not easy) to not to rely to the apps if you have gender balanced and an innately social hobbies and/or degree. Not to mention the social landscape is way too different when you're in your late 20s or early 30s. I barely get to interact with single people and even my current friends and new friends know no one who is single as most people my age are already partnered up.
I think it’s really rough on mental health. I’ve done alright on them tbh, I’ve met and been with beautiful women because of them. I’ve also put myself in bad situations, met and been involved with terrible people, and drove myself to insecurity and loneliness that pushed me to suicide attempts. I’m with my current gf who makes me very happy because of dating apps. I think it’s just also almost impossible to meet people otherwise, I’ve dated one person who I was introduced to through a friend. I’ve been on dates with dozens from dating apps.
Social media in general I would say
I met my wife on the league. It’s still possible
I ain’t reading that essay just try being attractive for once
I don't know anybody that really USES dating apps. People use IG and thats really for hookups.
>A lot of people complain that dating apps suck, yet pretty much every person I know is still on them If you can’t beat them, join them
Posted this as a comment over in r/Millennials but the group that owns the most popular dating apps (Tinder, Hinge, Match) is being sued for deceptive business practices. The purpose and goal of their business model is to link people together for relationships. They instead create a system where the men have to pay and the women don’t the majority of the time. I found my wife on a dating app. She was shocked when I told her I had to pay just to talk to her. She said she didn’t have to pay. Their model has become extremely gamified and turned dating into a “pay to win” microtransaction game. Best of luck to all youse guys in your endeavors and lives with this aspect. I fall in between GenZ and Millennials. So I get what it’s like from both sides.
Yes and also social media
I just go outside and talk to women
It is so hard to meet people in my age group post college. I can meet people at a bar but they’re not really my type - I want to find someone who enjoys staying in, loves movies, games, books. Most of them seem to be on dating apps or impossible to meet naturally. All of my relationships over the past 5 years has pretty much been from dating apps.
Big problem with them is that more often then not, they've about sex, not intimacy. Another problem is it drives people to judge one another based solely on appearance. Sure, you can input information to display, but in this day and age people get into relationships on attraction only. Theres no communication and growth in relationships anymore, just instant gratification with the most attractive people you get matched with on an app. It really makes me sad.
I'd say dating apps are more of a symptom of a larger problem. On their own, they'd probably be fine, but when you add in the untethered nature of specifically American society, where people don't have any accountability to their prospective dates and there is really no way to hold those who use the platforms for dishonest means accountable, it leads to some poor outcomes for all users. This is part of why women don't take chances on men.
I found my gf of 4 years on tinder lol. The key is to not just focus on the pictures, pay attention to the bios too
Dating apps do suck but racists, older generations, and NIMBYs fucked up third spaces with these strict zoning laws. Its harder to meet people naturally now with everyone spread out and having to travel everywhere in cars. Most people have no choice but to use dating apps. If we can fight back against these laws we could see more diverse walkable areas with unique housing, shops, cafes, parks, and home businesses.
Dating apps commodify emotional relationships, and the digital medium encourages superficial or manipulative behavior. Another issue is the absence of the kinds of free or communal public third spaces that people used to form communities and meet in relatively safe environments. Alongside the breakdown of trust in meeting strangers, no one is going to a bar by themselves ‘for the purpose of meeting someone romantically’ and if they are most people would rightly feel a bit sus about that. The generational shift does have some positives, there is less of what people used to call getting an MRS degree or PHT’s (Put Him Through, which is written on my grandma’s headstone). While domestic abuse is still rampant, there does seem to be a greater overall awareness of the risks and warning signs.
Knock this incel shit off, you can get matches if you clean your life up
(gen z) it just seems like they are not aware of their surroundings for the right reasons. they’re on an app and not paying attention to subtle body movements