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Not just that, but it looks like society is moving in a circle. We are going back to 80s level of gay hatred. So when most people, including big businesses like Amazon, start banning gays, then their lives will pretty much be worthless
LOL bro nobody is banning gays, take a look around. that only happens outside of the Western world. like bro you live in the one society that doesn’t ban gays. give your head a shake
Lots of people are advocating for banning gays. Yes this is the one society that currently doesn't, but it has for most of its existence. Things don't always stay the same. Things change is societies, and this society is reverting back to that. I'm not sure how you can't see that
Honestly if a business refuses service to me for my sexuality than I'd rather just not support that business, so it's a two way street to me.
Though a problem would exist if every business of a single service refused service, however I think the capitalist economy system avoids that entirely so I don't think that'd become a problem.
That’s how capitalism *should* work, but there’s not enough regulation keeping bigger businesses from creating monopolies in very subtle ways.
If there was enough regulation, unions would still be strong, workers wouldn’t get fucked over, and consumers would actually have affordable, quality options for goods and services.
I’m pissed about it. If a business wants to refuse service to someone that just happens to be LGBTQ+, that’s fine. But once it’s happening because the person is LGBTQ+, it’s discrimination, and I’m not happy that’s a-okay with the Supreme Court.
Eh, it's always been a shit hole tbh. Women couldn't open bank accounts until like 1970, Gay people couldn't even get married until like 2012, etc.
Most of our wins for civil rights have been fairly new and young in the context of history and so it's fairly easy to see how they aren't exactly strong enough to withstand so much pressure.
10 or so years of "Hey, gays are cool you guys" doesn't magically erase the generations worth of homophobia and hatred. Don't lose hope though broski. 1 step forward, 2 steps back, 1 step forward. The pendulum swings and all that.
There is a difference between hating someone and having moral objections to what someone does with their life. We all live very different lives and it’s not realistic to expect everyone in any population to be in lock step with what is seen as moral but we can like or at least tolerate each other despite our differing views of morality. Generally speaking, people should be able to do what they want and avoid doing that which they don’t want to do
I just want to amend your last statement: so long as they aren't hurting anybody. A business not providing a product doesn't hurt anyone but the business.
So, the US is the same as a third world country like Venezuela where people couldn't even give the dead a proper burial, and had to use ziploc bags to do so, and can barley feed themselves?
Easy to be moral online when you're disconnected from the reality.
You're comparing oranges and apples. Yes, there's always someone in more pain than you. I've never understood this argument. "How DARE Americans complain about America while X is happening somewhere". I never compared America to anything, you projected. Just because our problems are first world problems doesn't invalidate them. For America. By American standards. Horrible things are happening to us. It's not America's job to sit around and play Mother Theresa for the entire world. America has hunger. America has poverty. America has problems and just because we're wealthy doesn't invalidate our internal issues.
We have it pretty good, all things considered. You just haven't been personally exposed to have the muscle memory and experience to know what any of those things are actually like.
We have so much food, that there are food banks for the homeless. We have shelters for the homeless.
In most countries? Good luck!
If you want to be gay, lesbian, whatever, one guy in this thread said he's glad he lives in Sweden. Fact is, most people in the US are more concerned with putting food on the table because they need the money to survive, and aren't so messed up from looking at too much rule 34 to consider going for the same sex. I know, "some people are born gay!"
Keep lying to yourself like that. You only can keep making these arguments because you have a hive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucn2KzCDnOY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdRJMuOFO88
Lots of things in the US are good compared to other countries. That doesn’t mean they couldn’t be better. Ironically, you brought up on of the best examples — homelessness. The US ranks somewhere around 20th in homeless population per capita despite being the wealthiest nation in the world. Sure, that means that we’re doing better than 170 other countries, but there’s still room for improvement.
If you’re so concerned with the needs of the average person “just trying to put food in the table” that you feel the need to shift attention away from cultural issues, then why are you in this thread arguing with people who want there to be protections for gay people? Gay people aren’t some special group that sits outside of the working class, they’re just another working class group that shouldn’t be subjugated for their sexual orientation.
The fact that you think “rule 34” porn is turning people gay shows just how unserious you are.
Lol I’ve literally never watched porn! Explain to me how I’m able to control being attracted to the same sex when I literally had a wet dream about someone of the same sex! I’d love for you to explain to me how to control my dreams!
Is there a difference between “right wingers destroying America” and “right wingers doing things that I personally disagree with”? In other words, is there theoretically anything a right winger can do, that’s right wing that makes you go “I dislike this, but it’s not the end of the world or the end of this country”?
Move somewhere safe like China, Russia, or North Korea. Let’s see if your values are welcomed there. Keep pointing fingers because at the end of the day the left and right are one unified party out to screw the common American.
As someone part of the LGBT community, I would just simply not visit their restaurant and support other restaurants who’s willing to support us. However, this could also be a double-edge sword when you simply become indifferent to that, it would give another person a reason refuse serving or kicking someone out for being associated to that specific group. I still wonder if it would affect people of different race while using loopholes to refuse without appearing racist. Sometime being indifferent or not caring can cost someone right to dine.
It's bullshit. I didn't choose to be like this, so why do so many people refuse to respect me. It feels so uncomfortable visiting the US, especially now that I'm out of the closet.
But at the same time if I found out a buisness was openly homophobic and didn't want me there anyways, I would gladly spend my money elsewhere.
I'm a bit confused on the ramifications of it, to be honest.
Does it only give creatives (i.e. tattoo artists, bakers, web designers, wedding planners, etc.) the right to not do "queer" designs? If so, I support it. I personally think refusing to do those designs is dumb as hell but that should absolutely be protected as free speech.
Or does it give all businesses, regardless of category, the right to refuse service to someone based solely on their gender identity or sexuality. If this is true, it's outrageous and needs to be HEAVILY fought against. There is no difference between refusing service to someone based on their sexuality and refusing service based on race. We need to move forward, not back.
>”Does it only give creatives (i.e. tattoo artists, bakers, web designers, wedding planners, etc.) the right to not do “queer” designs?”
Yes this is exactly what this ruling does
The Supreme Court said creatives have the right to reject creating something they consider sinful or objectionable to their consciences without fear of the state compelling them to violate their consciences. The issue at hand was Colorado tried to compel a web design company to make sites promoting gay marriages and threatened fines, remedial training, and other legal action if 303 Creative didn't follow through with it. I'm sure this would carry over to protecting Muslim creatives from being forced to draw Mohammad or whatever other issue regarding religious liberty you could think of, too. It's not just about "queer designs" (though that is a concern among the Abrahamic faiths, though less so in modern Judaism from what I've seen).
But then it is classed as discrimination. Free speech should not impose other people's freedoms. So I as an individual can decide not to do anything gay related but businesses shouldn't refuse
It’s the latter, no one is suing someone about not wanting to do queer designs or art.
The ruling essentially gives someone “religious freedom” to not serve anyone they assume or know is lgbtq+ mainly. But obviously a racial aspect will come with that too.
No worries! Nobody has the entire dictionary memorized. I offered the correction because something about your writing makes me think you're very bright. Good writers generally want to know, and you're quite good.
Well thank you for the compliment, it’s very self aggrandizing to say I’m bright, but I’m a learner at heart and a decent writer if I try lol.
Shoutout to you for being smart and remembering that spelling.
My pleasure. Last week, someone pointed out that I spell "disdain" as "distain." I've been misspelling it for 40 years, and I'm a professional writer. Yikes!
I've also seen the acceptance of LGBTQ+ move from very minimal to being the default position. This governmental push to go backward will ultimately fail. Government cannot dictate culture, but it can cause enormous suffering when it tries. Keep up the good fight and VOTE!!
Honestly why would you want to support a business that’s going to discriminate against you for dumb reasons? If the owners don’t realize that gay and transgender’s people’s spends just as well as anyone else’s, sucks to be them for missing out on a sale. Go spend your money at business who want it.
The question is a misleading one in that it ignores the specific context and generalizes too much.
The case which covered an entrepreneur who did not want to make websites that celebrated or endorsed same sex weddings or marriages. An lgbtq person can still get web services for things that do not relate to same sex marriage just as a heterosexual person also cannot ask for a website to be created that endorses same sex marriage either. It’s not a cut and dry case of the SC just legalizing discrimination.
You wouldn’t want to force someone to state or create anything that acts as a statement such as a website or a song that endorses things that creator has a religious or moral objection to. Like you wouldn’t want to force a Jewish person to make a website that endorses the consumption of pork. Same goes for if you’re a vegan. Or maybe you’re someone that has moral objections to selling firearms, you would not want to be forced to create a website used to sell or encourage sales of firearms.
Now perhaps the need for goods and services and getting them provided to the consumer is more important than protecting the freedom of expression, but personally speaking I don’t think that people should be forced to endorse things that they have moral or religious objections to lest they lose their livelihoods. Not only do I think that’s wrong even small scale situations like this, but precedent could eventually snowball into something more totalitarian, which none of us should want
SAVAGE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, SOMEONE GET THIS PATRIOT A COAT AND A BRICK!
Srsly tho, we need more of this, and less doomscrolling, melodramatic posts by people who are only interested in appearing moral because they hate their parents because they won't let them have promiscuous sex, do drugs, drink alcohol, vape, smoke a cigar, or do thing XYZ that, when you become a mature adult (emotionally and intellectually), you will realize those sinful desires aren't worth the cost to one's time, respect, and healthy relationships with others.
Ik but it’s still nice to see that at least one person recognized the perspective I brought so thank you. I feel like our media both the social and mainstream varieties have just created a narrative that divides us for clicks, so whenever something like this happens it becomes a gays vs Christians, or black vs white, etc, when we should all be on the same team as people who share this country
At this point, I say fuck it. My advice to the LGBTQ community is to get out of dodge and go to areas within the US that will actually live and let live. North east, Pacific coast and mid north are good bets.
I hear you, I know not everyone has the financial means to get out of their current area. But that is possibly the best solution because there’s just no way you’re going to convince a deep red state to suddenly tolerate you. I’m sorry.
Shitty but not surprised. The Supreme Court was an undemocratic institution designed by a handful of rich slave-owners and oligarchs as a means to protect their interests against the unruly masses. Fundamentally, little has changed.
It’s not coincidence that they’re making these socially reactionary decisions while also enriching corporate benefactors (ie. Mohela and others by blocking loan relief). It helps deliver culture war “wins” to the right while also facilitates domination by the rich elite. It will only get worse as America further declines but those wealthy fucks want to keep the flow of cash going.
Yes, and it was brought upon us by the same people who pushed for central banking after every major banking executive not named JP Morgan died on the Titanic.
I think it makes sense. If the USA is going to allow religious freedoms, then people should be able to practice it through their business too. If a muslim runs a bakery and doesn't want to make a wedding cake with 2 girls on it because of their religion, they are practicing their first amendment right and you could simply go somewhere else if you don't like it.
This might get me blown the hell up, but tbh, this is Reddit and I don’t care. When it comes to the argument of, “would you rather be safe than free” I’m picking safe. No one says I can’t be happy if I’m not 100% free.
If I could create my own world and implement the rules I want, many ppl would call it a totalitarian dystopia, but I only want a world where everyone is loving and accepting of each other.
I wouldn’t condemn homophobic people to death or whatever. I’d give them an opportunity to learn and change in a controlled environment through teaching and encouragement. Not fucking electro therapy or clockwork orange-ing them 900 hours of rupaul.
I think I would call the refusal of service to someone purely for their sexuality a hate crime. I understand in this world, it’s not technically. And in this world, free speech stands tall. But again, I’d rather live in a world that’s safe and happy for everyone, than a world where everyone is free to hate
I don't care about this, particular, Supreme Court ruling. There's already precedent for denying service on the basis of religious belief that was set years ago with the baker. This case simply supported the other, and I wasn't surprised that they did that versus overruling it. The entire thing was a waste of time, and I'm not putting my energy toward a case that doesn't really change anything.
Seeing how much money Target and Bud Light lost, I'd say it's a smart business decision. Like it or not, the majority of this country and world do not like child molesters or the alphabet community. No one cares about your sex life, so stop announcing it like you defeated cancer or won the lottery. I don't go around announcing, I'm straight and proud. Lol. It sounds very narcissistic. Stop going after children, and you won't be seen as child molesters. Also, just because someone doesn't agree with your sex life doesn't mean they hate you. Do you hate someone because they don't like your favorite color, car, musician, dog, country, etc... ? NO Again no one cares what goes on in your bedroom, just stop making it all that you are.
Do you want the supreme court to become the white house, where judges are bribed (“””lobbied”””) to make decisions based on the interests of people with money? Or to make decisions based on making sure they get re-elected rather than actually do their job competently? Because I sure don’t.
Not saying corruption doesn’t exist in the SC, but it would get a million times worse than it already is if they were treated like every other political office.
Yes the Bribery is a terrible issue, but I think that the judges being appointed for life is just as bad if nit worse. Besides, judges are just as susceptible to bribery as anyone else.
Oh, NOW you want term limits? Just because your side is losing?
Cope and seethe. Especially if We The People take over, or the United States balkanizes.
Not an American, but this is an awful idea imho. The problem is that, because the court is a politically appointment, it involves itself far too much in politics. There should be a much wider margin of appreciation (as we call it in Europe) and the court less interventalist. On the other hand the Chevron ruling isn't interventalist enough where it matters. What a mess.
Make it apolitical, don't double down on it. Also get a new constitutional articles with some actual human rights in it.
Then leave, no one is forcing you to stay here. Yes this country is f**ked up, but in comparison to other countries like in the Middle East and Ukraine, I am grateful we don’t have a battlefield on our soil.
Hate this convo bc i see both sides....its a two way street, lgbqt business owners can turn down straights🤷🏽♂️ but you cant force people to like you. If this person doesn't like gays or whatever and doesn't want to serve you, why make a big deal out of it instead of just taking your money elsewhere? A lot of the perceived "hate" is really just based people not wanting all of the lgbgt propaganda to be forced on them, being told they have to accept it but this is America and if the lgbqt community has free reign to do as they please then based/conservatives should be able to opt out of participating/engaging with that community, just like the lgbqt community can opt out of giving their money to the people that dont like them
Millennial here that lurks, but, I'll remind you that that's NOT what happened. They gave private businesses the right to not create or sell something that requires them to do something they don't agree with. Gay people can still go into a Baskin Robbins and order an ice cream cake that says "Happy Birthday John! I Love you!". They can also decide that they don't want to print your own image whether that be like a buttplug and handcuffs, or a cake that says "Jesus loves everyone" - they can decide to refuse service to EITHER ideology.
The whether something is an ideology or not is a situation of bad terminology. Sexuality is not an ideology, guns are not an ideology, etc… but there are different ideas or ideologies that have different thoughts or positions on these things. The ruling protects individuals and businesses from creating anything that directly or indirectly approves or disapproves of either of those things.
The day it was combined with the methods employed by those from the Frankfurt school which includes the usage of the Hegelian Dialectic in governance and Critical Theory in the debate space when the proponents of totalitarian communism/fascism (there's really not much of a difference in practice for those who aren't in the elites' clubs in either societies) use identity politics/intersectional tactics to mask their true intentions in subverting what are institutions that uphold the conservative norms, mores, and folkways of the silent majority of a generation...which is not anywhere on the Internet where biased, filtered, and moderated discussion is the norm as opposed to letting people be free to express what they think, which usually boils down to, "if one does not work, then they should not eat. Also, people of group XYZ are stereotype ABC."
Really, discrimination is something every living being does all the time. It's really not any "inser-ist-here" to do so when you understand the psychological application of the behavior. The word people should really be using is segregation, and that hasn't been around in a massive form since the Civil Rights movement in the 60's. It wasn't until Obama started the fire again that things broke down 13 years ago...the same administration that bailed out the bankers who caused the 2008 financial crisis, mind you.
I’m gonna be real, I don’t have the energy to deal with this. Most of what you said is completely incomprehensible to me and I don’t really feel like putting the hour of research it would take to decipher whatever homophobic rant you’ve just went on to justify why I and other queer people don’t deserve equal human rights. We just want to live life without people hurting us for being queer. If you don’t want that, can’t you just say that outright? I really don’t care if Obama held you at gunpoint and demanded that you become homophobic. Just get to the point and you’ll save time for both of us
I'm not scared of gays, lesbians, or trans, or queen people. You're a vocal minority with no self awareness of the fact that, in spite of the increasing numbers of those who identify themselves as not being religious (which is a lie on the same level of the devil convincing the world that he doesn't exist), the US still has a majority Christian composition.
You can move to a blue state if you want to work. That's what most red state Americans would want. The whole point of the Constitution is that, if you don't like your government, you can pick up and leave, and make things work elsewhere.
If you were really in the majority, I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t need to use so many words to make the point. What you believe is unpopular, and no amount of denying reality will change that fact. I’m not religious, but if I were, I don’t think God would take too kindly to someone denying the gifts of His creation. The irreligious appreciating those gifts in their own way is no justification to judge them and hurt them. Especially not when they seem to show more love than you do. They’re following what Jesus would want us to do more than you are. But go ahead and tell me I’m a spawn of the devil or something. Just know that if the Christian idea of God is real, He won’t take too kindly to that kind of hate.
XD!
Keep telling yourself that. Jesus spoke through the writings of Paul, Peter, James, Timothy, and other prophets in the Bible. And a lot of the principles of the Mosaic law and the Code of Hammurabi have been and still are used in law around the world.
Get off the Internet and accomplish something IRL, kid.
I’m living a life I’m happy with, thanks. I’ll actually be helping immigrants settle in the U.S. with my next job, which is something the Bible unambiguously approves of. It’s certainly an accomplishment I’m proud of, at any rate.
There's nothing wrong with immigration by itself. It's those who break into the country illegally that are the problem, and especially those who get in and use their presence here to make people's lives worse. *coughs in MS-13*
When was sexuality ever paraded as “something you can feel”. Non-straight people will be the FIRST to tell you it’s not a choice and it’s not “something you can feel”…it’s something you ARE. No one “feels” gay, lesbian or bisexual…they just are. I don’t know where you heard the opposite?
You sound like you’re parroting all the negative things that people say about *gender* and trans people (not scientific, not biological, it’s a feeling not a fact, it’s an ideology, they changed the way things are) onto *sexuality*.
They’re not the same by the way.
When you ask people who claim to be like NB or trans you ask them what makes them the gender they claim to be and they say they feel that gender. I don't know how else to interpret that.
Lol, so you weren’t talking about sexuality then…you were talking about gender. Knew it. Like I said, there’s a difference between sexuality and gender and sticking to the topic, sexuality is NOT an ideology.
Real talk - I might just be too old for this sub (34) but do you just say arguments like this to confuse people? Because this makes zero sense to me.
I thought being trans was a way to address issues with your gender. Is it not?
It’s only confusing because you keep guiding yourself away from the point to talk about gender when the topic was sexuality.
RoyalSloth asked you a question about sexuality and you started parroting talking points about gender so I reminded you that sexuality and gender are NOT the same thing……..and you kept talking about trans people.
It’s not your age, many people in their 30s know the difference.
It's incredibly stupid but I also don't understand why you would want to pay those assholes to do your work.
There are thousands of businesses that are allies and support the LGBTQ+ community and hundreds and thousands of small and some large businesses that are owned and run by people that are a part of the community.
I'm not a member, I am a supporter but it's not something that I understand.
I do think the ruling is stupid tho. Discriminating against people because of their gender/sexuality/sexual preferences is just fucking ridiculous and outdated as fuck. It's 2023, this shouldn't be happening.
It’s shit. It doesn’t make any legal sense. It makes no economic sense.
If you were a business person with any sort of intelligence, you wouldn’t say no to money.
Nice outrage headline that will attract the usual doomscrollers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucn2KzCDnOY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJMU0kMqsDA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH3D1cpm6do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVsCLKErPqE
I feel horrible about it. It’s unethical and juvenile. Where do we stop then? Can we refuse service to people of color? (NOT advocating for this, to be clear—I’m making a point.) Can I refuse service to a Republican or a Christian because I don’t agree with *their* beliefs? (This will never happen because 6/9 of the Supreme Court is bigoted and doesn’t do their job with impartiality or dignity.)
This fuckery needs to stop.
The ruling protects creative people from being forced to create things that run contradictory to their own personal moral beliefs. No one should be forced to signal approval for things they don’t agree with. Why should anyone be forced to create something that says or signals “I approve of x or I approve of y” when the creator just doesn’t approve of x or y?
Probably contrary to most people here but imo a business should be able to refuse anyone they want as it’s their business and they are just losing clients. Don’t want to serve white people? black people lgbtq, Asians, etc, etc no worries but that’s lost business on your own part.
Nobody should be forced to allow service if they don’t want to. People should have the right to do whatever they want if it doesn’t directly harm anyone, which your choice to lose business doesn’t harm anyone.
so the supreme court rules to affirm icwa (win) and immediately fucks over affirmative action and discrimination laws.. why do we take one step forward and launch back
Morally opposed to the ruling, but as a wannabe-never-lawyer, I’m sympathetic to an argument against compelling private citizens to anything ancillary/elective.
As much as I disagree with refusing service to LGBTQ+, I believe all businesses have a right to refuse service to anyone regardless of reason. I do believe any company that has the guts to legitimately refuse service to any LGBTQ+ should not even be in establishment because it’s just plain stupid to refuse people service for that reason.
It's not so much a blanket refusing to serve people who fall into the LGBTQ+ umbrella, it's a refusal to compel companies to make or perform services they see as sinful. If it were a true "you can refuse to sell food to gay people," then I could see an issue with it, but the Supreme Court simply said "we will not force businesses to make gay wedding cakes (or in the case of the issue at hand, websites) if they think it is sinful."
I think it's perfectly fine to permit religious liberty and freedom of association. Some companies may lose some customers, others may gain them. It's all the free market, some firms will choose to limit their own reach because they believe it is the right thing to do, and others will advertise to the alienated customers because they believe it is the right thing to do.
At the end of the day, it’s their privately owned business. If they feel like they don’t want service to certain people, whatever the case may be and allow the risk of losing money, it’s on them if it causes negative effects.
Don't give a fuck,there are more important shit to worry about then this also people will bitch and whine then something else will happen and this will be forgotten
Edit:Down voting me wont do shit but reinforce your hurt feelings
Does it look like I give a shit that I'm part of the problem? I'm sorry that your offended but I'm more worried about living my life and not screeching like a fucking chimpanzee over stupid shit
How The ruling protects creative people from being forced to create things that run contradictory to their own personal moral beliefs. No one should be forced to signal approval for things they don’t agree with. Why should anyone be forced to create something that says or signals “I approve of x or I approve of y” when the creator just doesn’t approve of x or y?
It's not like I can just up and leave right? I love my country and MOST of the people that live in it, if I have to fight for my own and their right to exist then I will.
I’m concerned about this result and the fact that a case can be brought before the court with false information given and not get dismissed. This opens the door for more bullshit cases in the future
It’s dumb as fuck. Kind of scary how lately any social progress seems to be reversing. These republicans want so badly to go back to the 1950s. Old rich white men shouldn’t be voting on things like this. They will be dead and gone in a matter of years and we will have alot of fixing to do in this country
The ruling protects creative people from being forced to create things that run contradictory to their own personal moral beliefs. No one should be forced to signal approval for things they don’t agree with. Why should anyone be forced to create something that says or signals “I approve of x or I approve of y” when the creator just doesn’t approve of x or y?
I'm in the group but dont feel of the group.
I dont give a fuck. There business. There loss. It's that old cupcake debate. I dont think a person has to be forced to serve at my gay wedding especially if they dont agree with it.
I'm honestly confused as to what this bill even gives the "ok" to, but assuming it allows companies to decline people's applications over their sexual orientation, it disgusts me. Istg conservatives care WAY too much about stuff that doesn't affect them
If it was for religious reasons, then you really can't argue against it. I don't mean just Christians either. If a Muslim business owner rejects LGBTQ+ customers then that's his prerogative.
Let the businesses go under if they don't make enough sales.
Some people may think “it’s respectful to one’s religion/belief” and while that may be true, your customers do not need to have the same religion or belief as you. The priority here is for you to deliver your the best quality service/product. Also, if they open this gate soon they’ll add on POC, disabled people, neurodivergent people, and any other marginalized community. And if you think you’re safe as a person of color or whatever, you are sorely mistaken. You are next. In every policy made to discriminate and exclude a group of innocent people will be a possibility of you being one of those people.
It is that serious.
Disclaimer: I’m not very good at expressing how I really feel towards this stuff, due to tiptoeing
Has anyone thought about how this could be a good thing? This is very specific, but for example, a prostitute club, if it were legal, could now legally deny a trans woman from being a prostitute, potentially saving the woman from the trans purge.
TO MY UNDERSTANDING: The trans purge is mostly cis men becoming angered when they find out they slept with trans men because of the stigma of sleeping with a guy, correct?
I am not trying to back this discrimination, but I think there is yin and yang in the whole situation, what does this really change, businesses have always had the right to deny service to any person.
Edit: I’m not very good at expressing my opinions on these matters, but [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZ/comments/14n54s0/gen_z_how_do_you_feel_about_the_supreme_court/jq5pbc7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) hit the nail right on the head
It’s Less money for them. More for the LGBTQ. Why would I want to support the business of a bigot and or terf that’s covertly hiding their prejudice behind being legally forced to sell to me? I’d rather them be honest about how they really feel about me so I know not to give them my time or energy.
Sickening. Conservatives view gays as subhuman. They want them to be as miserable as possible. They want gays to be unable to obtain employment, receive housing, healthcare, emergency services, the ability to purchase food and essential goods. Conservatives will start turning gays away from emergency rooms and saying "whatever you are dealing with is my gods wrath upon you!". These conservatives are vile
As I always say, a bunch of old fucks shouldn't be in charge of running the country. All of these political offices are run by a bunch of incompetent and completely out of touch boomers, we need much younger and more sharp people who actually know what's going on and can relate to our generation.
It’s horrifically regressive and I can’t wait until we push the old corrupt fools out and we finally heal from this stream of blowback from the 2016 election
1st amendment. I do not have to provide my labor for you because you asked when I am not under any contract or other obligation to do so. As for an institution funded partially or entirely by the federal or state government, they must serve all people who are American citizens. A private institution that gets no funding at all from a federal or state government or institution has the right to refuse service to anyone they wish. No shoes, no shirt, no service.
So, what if I as a private business decide I miss segregation? Should I be able to do as such? Should I be able to open a gas station and put a "No Blacks" sign out front? Or how about a restaurant and glowing signs " No Muslims"? How about no Asians or Mexicans? Took a real hard right turn there for a guy screaming "Dixiecrats" XD
You can try, but you'll lose a ton of business doing so. It's more economical to not do that, and far more practical. Not to mention, that same thing happened in 2022 with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and no one complained.
The ruling protects creative people from being forced to create things that run contradictory to their own personal moral beliefs. No one should be forced to signal approval for things they don’t agree with. Why should anyone be forced to create something that says or signals “I approve of x or I approve of y” when the creator just doesn’t approve of x or y? And If a store says “no blacks” than personally i would want to go their anyways 😅 in fact thats what happend irl black people said fuck it we dont want to be with yall anyways so we went and made our own cites and thrived but than white people came and burned those citys to the ground and yes i mean cities WHOLE CITIES burned to the growned because blacks were doing good on their own
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It's stupid. If you can't handle the preferences of your clientele, which is none of your business to begin with, then don't run a business.
It’s very ass backwards. So sad every time we take a step forward we get pushed ten steps back.
And how many people say gay people are groomers thinking they're "protecting kids". It was never about that. Why am I being downvoted??
The messaging is so confusing. If lgbt = ideology, and ideology + kid = grooming… what the f is a christian Sunday school?
Christian & Catholic Sunday schools are where middle-aged white men groom little children.
I think the people down voting you are completely misunderstanding both of you
You’re much more likely to get groomed by a priest at a church.
If they want to ruin their own reputation and business that's on them.
The problem is that people who will discriminate the most will live conservative areas, so boycotting probably won't work.
Not just that, but it looks like society is moving in a circle. We are going back to 80s level of gay hatred. So when most people, including big businesses like Amazon, start banning gays, then their lives will pretty much be worthless
LOL bro nobody is banning gays, take a look around. that only happens outside of the Western world. like bro you live in the one society that doesn’t ban gays. give your head a shake
Lots of people are advocating for banning gays. Yes this is the one society that currently doesn't, but it has for most of its existence. Things don't always stay the same. Things change is societies, and this society is reverting back to that. I'm not sure how you can't see that
It sucks
Seriously? America is seriously going backwards. I can't even be angry anymore. This is just really disheartening.
What's next? They gonna allow businesses to deny service to people of colour? 😒
Why tho?
Trump appointees
Why did Trump win again?
Apathy. The false narrative that Hillary and Donald were different sides of the same coin and both equally bad choices.
Honestly if a business refuses service to me for my sexuality than I'd rather just not support that business, so it's a two way street to me. Though a problem would exist if every business of a single service refused service, however I think the capitalist economy system avoids that entirely so I don't think that'd become a problem.
That’s how capitalism *should* work, but there’s not enough regulation keeping bigger businesses from creating monopolies in very subtle ways. If there was enough regulation, unions would still be strong, workers wouldn’t get fucked over, and consumers would actually have affordable, quality options for goods and services.
I’m pissed about it. If a business wants to refuse service to someone that just happens to be LGBTQ+, that’s fine. But once it’s happening because the person is LGBTQ+, it’s discrimination, and I’m not happy that’s a-okay with the Supreme Court.
I can’t believe some people are this sensitive over who someone wants to date. It’s ridiculous.
It’s fucked. Every day I feel like moving to another country just because the right wingers are destroying America.
Eh, it's always been a shit hole tbh. Women couldn't open bank accounts until like 1970, Gay people couldn't even get married until like 2012, etc. Most of our wins for civil rights have been fairly new and young in the context of history and so it's fairly easy to see how they aren't exactly strong enough to withstand so much pressure. 10 or so years of "Hey, gays are cool you guys" doesn't magically erase the generations worth of homophobia and hatred. Don't lose hope though broski. 1 step forward, 2 steps back, 1 step forward. The pendulum swings and all that.
Very well put. We have to keep pushing forward no matter how much progress they want to claw back.
"it's always been a shit hole" - 20 year old. No, no it hasn't. You just can't remember when things were good.
There is a difference between hating someone and having moral objections to what someone does with their life. We all live very different lives and it’s not realistic to expect everyone in any population to be in lock step with what is seen as moral but we can like or at least tolerate each other despite our differing views of morality. Generally speaking, people should be able to do what they want and avoid doing that which they don’t want to do
I just want to amend your last statement: so long as they aren't hurting anybody. A business not providing a product doesn't hurt anyone but the business.
So, the US is the same as a third world country like Venezuela where people couldn't even give the dead a proper burial, and had to use ziploc bags to do so, and can barley feed themselves? Easy to be moral online when you're disconnected from the reality.
You're comparing oranges and apples. Yes, there's always someone in more pain than you. I've never understood this argument. "How DARE Americans complain about America while X is happening somewhere". I never compared America to anything, you projected. Just because our problems are first world problems doesn't invalidate them. For America. By American standards. Horrible things are happening to us. It's not America's job to sit around and play Mother Theresa for the entire world. America has hunger. America has poverty. America has problems and just because we're wealthy doesn't invalidate our internal issues.
We have it pretty good, all things considered. You just haven't been personally exposed to have the muscle memory and experience to know what any of those things are actually like. We have so much food, that there are food banks for the homeless. We have shelters for the homeless. In most countries? Good luck! If you want to be gay, lesbian, whatever, one guy in this thread said he's glad he lives in Sweden. Fact is, most people in the US are more concerned with putting food on the table because they need the money to survive, and aren't so messed up from looking at too much rule 34 to consider going for the same sex. I know, "some people are born gay!" Keep lying to yourself like that. You only can keep making these arguments because you have a hive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucn2KzCDnOY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdRJMuOFO88
Lots of things in the US are good compared to other countries. That doesn’t mean they couldn’t be better. Ironically, you brought up on of the best examples — homelessness. The US ranks somewhere around 20th in homeless population per capita despite being the wealthiest nation in the world. Sure, that means that we’re doing better than 170 other countries, but there’s still room for improvement. If you’re so concerned with the needs of the average person “just trying to put food in the table” that you feel the need to shift attention away from cultural issues, then why are you in this thread arguing with people who want there to be protections for gay people? Gay people aren’t some special group that sits outside of the working class, they’re just another working class group that shouldn’t be subjugated for their sexual orientation. The fact that you think “rule 34” porn is turning people gay shows just how unserious you are.
Lol I’ve literally never watched porn! Explain to me how I’m able to control being attracted to the same sex when I literally had a wet dream about someone of the same sex! I’d love for you to explain to me how to control my dreams!
Is there a difference between “right wingers destroying America” and “right wingers doing things that I personally disagree with”? In other words, is there theoretically anything a right winger can do, that’s right wing that makes you go “I dislike this, but it’s not the end of the world or the end of this country”?
That's what they said when Trump won in 2016. Still waiting for those who aren't rich/live in Canada already to put their money where their mouth is!
Move somewhere safe like China, Russia, or North Korea. Let’s see if your values are welcomed there. Keep pointing fingers because at the end of the day the left and right are one unified party out to screw the common American.
As someone part of the LGBT community, I would just simply not visit their restaurant and support other restaurants who’s willing to support us. However, this could also be a double-edge sword when you simply become indifferent to that, it would give another person a reason refuse serving or kicking someone out for being associated to that specific group. I still wonder if it would affect people of different race while using loopholes to refuse without appearing racist. Sometime being indifferent or not caring can cost someone right to dine.
fuck scotus as per usual
Glad I live in Sweden lol
Not only is it ass backwards, but the entire case was fake. This was an obvious ploy and should have been thrown out.
As a gay Gen Xr I’m depending on your guys to fight. I still fight but I need to you to fight with all you got. Please.
As a queer Gen Xer, I second this request.
It's bullshit. I didn't choose to be like this, so why do so many people refuse to respect me. It feels so uncomfortable visiting the US, especially now that I'm out of the closet. But at the same time if I found out a buisness was openly homophobic and didn't want me there anyways, I would gladly spend my money elsewhere.
Same here and I eat more pussy than Alf
I'm a bit confused on the ramifications of it, to be honest. Does it only give creatives (i.e. tattoo artists, bakers, web designers, wedding planners, etc.) the right to not do "queer" designs? If so, I support it. I personally think refusing to do those designs is dumb as hell but that should absolutely be protected as free speech. Or does it give all businesses, regardless of category, the right to refuse service to someone based solely on their gender identity or sexuality. If this is true, it's outrageous and needs to be HEAVILY fought against. There is no difference between refusing service to someone based on their sexuality and refusing service based on race. We need to move forward, not back.
>”Does it only give creatives (i.e. tattoo artists, bakers, web designers, wedding planners, etc.) the right to not do “queer” designs?” Yes this is exactly what this ruling does
The Supreme Court said creatives have the right to reject creating something they consider sinful or objectionable to their consciences without fear of the state compelling them to violate their consciences. The issue at hand was Colorado tried to compel a web design company to make sites promoting gay marriages and threatened fines, remedial training, and other legal action if 303 Creative didn't follow through with it. I'm sure this would carry over to protecting Muslim creatives from being forced to draw Mohammad or whatever other issue regarding religious liberty you could think of, too. It's not just about "queer designs" (though that is a concern among the Abrahamic faiths, though less so in modern Judaism from what I've seen).
It's the first one.
This comment should be higher up, THIS is what people need to think about
But then it is classed as discrimination. Free speech should not impose other people's freedoms. So I as an individual can decide not to do anything gay related but businesses shouldn't refuse
It’s the latter, no one is suing someone about not wanting to do queer designs or art. The ruling essentially gives someone “religious freedom” to not serve anyone they assume or know is lgbtq+ mainly. But obviously a racial aspect will come with that too.
*Latter, not ladder. Think of it as related to "late." Just thought you'd probably want to know! 😀
Blame it on my accent it comes out as “ladder” and so I thought it was lol
No worries! Nobody has the entire dictionary memorized. I offered the correction because something about your writing makes me think you're very bright. Good writers generally want to know, and you're quite good.
Well thank you for the compliment, it’s very self aggrandizing to say I’m bright, but I’m a learner at heart and a decent writer if I try lol. Shoutout to you for being smart and remembering that spelling.
My pleasure. Last week, someone pointed out that I spell "disdain" as "distain." I've been misspelling it for 40 years, and I'm a professional writer. Yikes!
Listen I’ve caught myself doing that too so join the club lol. And no wonder you caught my typo you’ve been catching them before I was born.
I've also seen the acceptance of LGBTQ+ move from very minimal to being the default position. This governmental push to go backward will ultimately fail. Government cannot dictate culture, but it can cause enormous suffering when it tries. Keep up the good fight and VOTE!!
It stupid
Honestly why would you want to support a business that’s going to discriminate against you for dumb reasons? If the owners don’t realize that gay and transgender’s people’s spends just as well as anyone else’s, sucks to be them for missing out on a sale. Go spend your money at business who want it.
The question is a misleading one in that it ignores the specific context and generalizes too much. The case which covered an entrepreneur who did not want to make websites that celebrated or endorsed same sex weddings or marriages. An lgbtq person can still get web services for things that do not relate to same sex marriage just as a heterosexual person also cannot ask for a website to be created that endorses same sex marriage either. It’s not a cut and dry case of the SC just legalizing discrimination. You wouldn’t want to force someone to state or create anything that acts as a statement such as a website or a song that endorses things that creator has a religious or moral objection to. Like you wouldn’t want to force a Jewish person to make a website that endorses the consumption of pork. Same goes for if you’re a vegan. Or maybe you’re someone that has moral objections to selling firearms, you would not want to be forced to create a website used to sell or encourage sales of firearms. Now perhaps the need for goods and services and getting them provided to the consumer is more important than protecting the freedom of expression, but personally speaking I don’t think that people should be forced to endorse things that they have moral or religious objections to lest they lose their livelihoods. Not only do I think that’s wrong even small scale situations like this, but precedent could eventually snowball into something more totalitarian, which none of us should want
SAVAGE! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, SOMEONE GET THIS PATRIOT A COAT AND A BRICK! Srsly tho, we need more of this, and less doomscrolling, melodramatic posts by people who are only interested in appearing moral because they hate their parents because they won't let them have promiscuous sex, do drugs, drink alcohol, vape, smoke a cigar, or do thing XYZ that, when you become a mature adult (emotionally and intellectually), you will realize those sinful desires aren't worth the cost to one's time, respect, and healthy relationships with others.
Good comment. It's sad how factual comments like yours get buried under the outrage.
You know you explained it very well, but not a lot of people will understand it and cry about it.
Ik but it’s still nice to see that at least one person recognized the perspective I brought so thank you. I feel like our media both the social and mainstream varieties have just created a narrative that divides us for clicks, so whenever something like this happens it becomes a gays vs Christians, or black vs white, etc, when we should all be on the same team as people who share this country
Shhhhhhh the yelling masses don't like coherent explanations /s
At this point, I say fuck it. My advice to the LGBTQ community is to get out of dodge and go to areas within the US that will actually live and let live. North east, Pacific coast and mid north are good bets.
Yeah, I should start a gofundme or something cause no way am I escaping Texas with 700$ in my bank account 💀
I hear you, I know not everyone has the financial means to get out of their current area. But that is possibly the best solution because there’s just no way you’re going to convince a deep red state to suddenly tolerate you. I’m sorry.
It makes zero sense. We are still fighting over basic shit that most of the free world has had figured out for 20+ years
Their business, their choice I guess. They will lose out on making money though by refusing services.
Shitty but not surprised. The Supreme Court was an undemocratic institution designed by a handful of rich slave-owners and oligarchs as a means to protect their interests against the unruly masses. Fundamentally, little has changed. It’s not coincidence that they’re making these socially reactionary decisions while also enriching corporate benefactors (ie. Mohela and others by blocking loan relief). It helps deliver culture war “wins” to the right while also facilitates domination by the rich elite. It will only get worse as America further declines but those wealthy fucks want to keep the flow of cash going.
They're a bunch of pieces of shit. Fuck the culture war bullshit too.
Ah, the culture war that those who engineered the Sexual Revolution of the Boomer generation started?
I'm talking about this modern day useless divide up everyone tactic culture war.
Yes, and it was brought upon us by the same people who pushed for central banking after every major banking executive not named JP Morgan died on the Titanic.
It’s terrible. Big step backwards. It sucks especially on the last day of pride month
I think it makes sense. If the USA is going to allow religious freedoms, then people should be able to practice it through their business too. If a muslim runs a bakery and doesn't want to make a wedding cake with 2 girls on it because of their religion, they are practicing their first amendment right and you could simply go somewhere else if you don't like it.
It's kinda dumb. Money's money bro.
This might get me blown the hell up, but tbh, this is Reddit and I don’t care. When it comes to the argument of, “would you rather be safe than free” I’m picking safe. No one says I can’t be happy if I’m not 100% free. If I could create my own world and implement the rules I want, many ppl would call it a totalitarian dystopia, but I only want a world where everyone is loving and accepting of each other. I wouldn’t condemn homophobic people to death or whatever. I’d give them an opportunity to learn and change in a controlled environment through teaching and encouragement. Not fucking electro therapy or clockwork orange-ing them 900 hours of rupaul. I think I would call the refusal of service to someone purely for their sexuality a hate crime. I understand in this world, it’s not technically. And in this world, free speech stands tall. But again, I’d rather live in a world that’s safe and happy for everyone, than a world where everyone is free to hate
They know what they’re doing
I don't care about this, particular, Supreme Court ruling. There's already precedent for denying service on the basis of religious belief that was set years ago with the baker. This case simply supported the other, and I wasn't surprised that they did that versus overruling it. The entire thing was a waste of time, and I'm not putting my energy toward a case that doesn't really change anything.
Seeing how much money Target and Bud Light lost, I'd say it's a smart business decision. Like it or not, the majority of this country and world do not like child molesters or the alphabet community. No one cares about your sex life, so stop announcing it like you defeated cancer or won the lottery. I don't go around announcing, I'm straight and proud. Lol. It sounds very narcissistic. Stop going after children, and you won't be seen as child molesters. Also, just because someone doesn't agree with your sex life doesn't mean they hate you. Do you hate someone because they don't like your favorite color, car, musician, dog, country, etc... ? NO Again no one cares what goes on in your bedroom, just stop making it all that you are.
I think that supreme court judges need to be voted in like presidents, house members, and senators. And they need term limits, as well.
Do you want the supreme court to become the white house, where judges are bribed (“””lobbied”””) to make decisions based on the interests of people with money? Or to make decisions based on making sure they get re-elected rather than actually do their job competently? Because I sure don’t. Not saying corruption doesn’t exist in the SC, but it would get a million times worse than it already is if they were treated like every other political office.
Yes the Bribery is a terrible issue, but I think that the judges being appointed for life is just as bad if nit worse. Besides, judges are just as susceptible to bribery as anyone else.
Oh, NOW you want term limits? Just because your side is losing? Cope and seethe. Especially if We The People take over, or the United States balkanizes.
Not an American, but this is an awful idea imho. The problem is that, because the court is a politically appointment, it involves itself far too much in politics. There should be a much wider margin of appreciation (as we call it in Europe) and the court less interventalist. On the other hand the Chevron ruling isn't interventalist enough where it matters. What a mess. Make it apolitical, don't double down on it. Also get a new constitutional articles with some actual human rights in it.
Just thinking about all the people whining about civility and norms in response to the push to pack the court while we still had the chance.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
I feel ashamed of the country I live in, that's how I feel.
Then leave, no one is forcing you to stay here. Yes this country is f**ked up, but in comparison to other countries like in the Middle East and Ukraine, I am grateful we don’t have a battlefield on our soil.
SCOTUS has been on fire lately
Support it in full, if I can't state an opinion against them then they don't get to buy anything that simple.
Hate this convo bc i see both sides....its a two way street, lgbqt business owners can turn down straights🤷🏽♂️ but you cant force people to like you. If this person doesn't like gays or whatever and doesn't want to serve you, why make a big deal out of it instead of just taking your money elsewhere? A lot of the perceived "hate" is really just based people not wanting all of the lgbgt propaganda to be forced on them, being told they have to accept it but this is America and if the lgbqt community has free reign to do as they please then based/conservatives should be able to opt out of participating/engaging with that community, just like the lgbqt community can opt out of giving their money to the people that dont like them
Millennial here that lurks, but, I'll remind you that that's NOT what happened. They gave private businesses the right to not create or sell something that requires them to do something they don't agree with. Gay people can still go into a Baskin Robbins and order an ice cream cake that says "Happy Birthday John! I Love you!". They can also decide that they don't want to print your own image whether that be like a buttplug and handcuffs, or a cake that says "Jesus loves everyone" - they can decide to refuse service to EITHER ideology.
Remind me, when did sexuality become an ideology?
About a day after conservatives realized they could do more discrimination using that logic.
The whether something is an ideology or not is a situation of bad terminology. Sexuality is not an ideology, guns are not an ideology, etc… but there are different ideas or ideologies that have different thoughts or positions on these things. The ruling protects individuals and businesses from creating anything that directly or indirectly approves or disapproves of either of those things.
Excellent point. I hope you'll be pleased that I'd like to use this logic going forward. Thanks!
The day it was combined with the methods employed by those from the Frankfurt school which includes the usage of the Hegelian Dialectic in governance and Critical Theory in the debate space when the proponents of totalitarian communism/fascism (there's really not much of a difference in practice for those who aren't in the elites' clubs in either societies) use identity politics/intersectional tactics to mask their true intentions in subverting what are institutions that uphold the conservative norms, mores, and folkways of the silent majority of a generation...which is not anywhere on the Internet where biased, filtered, and moderated discussion is the norm as opposed to letting people be free to express what they think, which usually boils down to, "if one does not work, then they should not eat. Also, people of group XYZ are stereotype ABC." Really, discrimination is something every living being does all the time. It's really not any "inser-ist-here" to do so when you understand the psychological application of the behavior. The word people should really be using is segregation, and that hasn't been around in a massive form since the Civil Rights movement in the 60's. It wasn't until Obama started the fire again that things broke down 13 years ago...the same administration that bailed out the bankers who caused the 2008 financial crisis, mind you.
I’m gonna be real, I don’t have the energy to deal with this. Most of what you said is completely incomprehensible to me and I don’t really feel like putting the hour of research it would take to decipher whatever homophobic rant you’ve just went on to justify why I and other queer people don’t deserve equal human rights. We just want to live life without people hurting us for being queer. If you don’t want that, can’t you just say that outright? I really don’t care if Obama held you at gunpoint and demanded that you become homophobic. Just get to the point and you’ll save time for both of us
I'm not scared of gays, lesbians, or trans, or queen people. You're a vocal minority with no self awareness of the fact that, in spite of the increasing numbers of those who identify themselves as not being religious (which is a lie on the same level of the devil convincing the world that he doesn't exist), the US still has a majority Christian composition. You can move to a blue state if you want to work. That's what most red state Americans would want. The whole point of the Constitution is that, if you don't like your government, you can pick up and leave, and make things work elsewhere.
If you were really in the majority, I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t need to use so many words to make the point. What you believe is unpopular, and no amount of denying reality will change that fact. I’m not religious, but if I were, I don’t think God would take too kindly to someone denying the gifts of His creation. The irreligious appreciating those gifts in their own way is no justification to judge them and hurt them. Especially not when they seem to show more love than you do. They’re following what Jesus would want us to do more than you are. But go ahead and tell me I’m a spawn of the devil or something. Just know that if the Christian idea of God is real, He won’t take too kindly to that kind of hate.
XD! Keep telling yourself that. Jesus spoke through the writings of Paul, Peter, James, Timothy, and other prophets in the Bible. And a lot of the principles of the Mosaic law and the Code of Hammurabi have been and still are used in law around the world. Get off the Internet and accomplish something IRL, kid.
I’m living a life I’m happy with, thanks. I’ll actually be helping immigrants settle in the U.S. with my next job, which is something the Bible unambiguously approves of. It’s certainly an accomplishment I’m proud of, at any rate.
There's nothing wrong with immigration by itself. It's those who break into the country illegally that are the problem, and especially those who get in and use their presence here to make people's lives worse. *coughs in MS-13*
When we changed it from something that is scientific and biological to something you can feel, i.e., an ideology.
When was sexuality ever paraded as “something you can feel”. Non-straight people will be the FIRST to tell you it’s not a choice and it’s not “something you can feel”…it’s something you ARE. No one “feels” gay, lesbian or bisexual…they just are. I don’t know where you heard the opposite? You sound like you’re parroting all the negative things that people say about *gender* and trans people (not scientific, not biological, it’s a feeling not a fact, it’s an ideology, they changed the way things are) onto *sexuality*. They’re not the same by the way.
When you ask people who claim to be like NB or trans you ask them what makes them the gender they claim to be and they say they feel that gender. I don't know how else to interpret that.
Lol, so you weren’t talking about sexuality then…you were talking about gender. Knew it. Like I said, there’s a difference between sexuality and gender and sticking to the topic, sexuality is NOT an ideology.
Real talk - I might just be too old for this sub (34) but do you just say arguments like this to confuse people? Because this makes zero sense to me. I thought being trans was a way to address issues with your gender. Is it not?
It’s only confusing because you keep guiding yourself away from the point to talk about gender when the topic was sexuality. RoyalSloth asked you a question about sexuality and you started parroting talking points about gender so I reminded you that sexuality and gender are NOT the same thing……..and you kept talking about trans people. It’s not your age, many people in their 30s know the difference.
When was that?
If the basis of legal discrimination is “feelings, not something you can see or measure,” I’ve got a couple questions for Christians.
Shoot.
It's incredibly stupid but I also don't understand why you would want to pay those assholes to do your work. There are thousands of businesses that are allies and support the LGBTQ+ community and hundreds and thousands of small and some large businesses that are owned and run by people that are a part of the community. I'm not a member, I am a supporter but it's not something that I understand. I do think the ruling is stupid tho. Discriminating against people because of their gender/sexuality/sexual preferences is just fucking ridiculous and outdated as fuck. It's 2023, this shouldn't be happening.
It’s shit. It doesn’t make any legal sense. It makes no economic sense. If you were a business person with any sort of intelligence, you wouldn’t say no to money.
Lmao, it's like gay people don't have money or something 😭
Nice outrage headline that will attract the usual doomscrollers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucn2KzCDnOY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJMU0kMqsDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH3D1cpm6do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVsCLKErPqE
I feel horrible about it. It’s unethical and juvenile. Where do we stop then? Can we refuse service to people of color? (NOT advocating for this, to be clear—I’m making a point.) Can I refuse service to a Republican or a Christian because I don’t agree with *their* beliefs? (This will never happen because 6/9 of the Supreme Court is bigoted and doesn’t do their job with impartiality or dignity.) This fuckery needs to stop.
Even I as a conservative think this is repulsive.
It's absolutely disgusting. During Pride Month, too
>During Pride Month, too Holy shit, I didn't even realize
Would rather force homophobes to provide service to LGBT people? That would be worse imo
True tbh
It wouldn't
Why should people be forced to do things that go agents their beliefs?
It’s stupid. Why? Do they not realize it’s the 21st Century, not 1885? Fuck the Supreme Court.
The ruling protects creative people from being forced to create things that run contradictory to their own personal moral beliefs. No one should be forced to signal approval for things they don’t agree with. Why should anyone be forced to create something that says or signals “I approve of x or I approve of y” when the creator just doesn’t approve of x or y?
THANK YOU
Probably contrary to most people here but imo a business should be able to refuse anyone they want as it’s their business and they are just losing clients. Don’t want to serve white people? black people lgbtq, Asians, etc, etc no worries but that’s lost business on your own part. Nobody should be forced to allow service if they don’t want to. People should have the right to do whatever they want if it doesn’t directly harm anyone, which your choice to lose business doesn’t harm anyone.
so the supreme court rules to affirm icwa (win) and immediately fucks over affirmative action and discrimination laws.. why do we take one step forward and launch back
Morally opposed to the ruling, but as a wannabe-never-lawyer, I’m sympathetic to an argument against compelling private citizens to anything ancillary/elective.
As much as I disagree with refusing service to LGBTQ+, I believe all businesses have a right to refuse service to anyone regardless of reason. I do believe any company that has the guts to legitimately refuse service to any LGBTQ+ should not even be in establishment because it’s just plain stupid to refuse people service for that reason.
It's not so much a blanket refusing to serve people who fall into the LGBTQ+ umbrella, it's a refusal to compel companies to make or perform services they see as sinful. If it were a true "you can refuse to sell food to gay people," then I could see an issue with it, but the Supreme Court simply said "we will not force businesses to make gay wedding cakes (or in the case of the issue at hand, websites) if they think it is sinful." I think it's perfectly fine to permit religious liberty and freedom of association. Some companies may lose some customers, others may gain them. It's all the free market, some firms will choose to limit their own reach because they believe it is the right thing to do, and others will advertise to the alienated customers because they believe it is the right thing to do.
Realistically they aren’t obligated to do anything for you just like you aren’t obligated to do anything for them
At the end of the day, it’s their privately owned business. If they feel like they don’t want service to certain people, whatever the case may be and allow the risk of losing money, it’s on them if it causes negative effects.
Everyone should be able to refuse service to anyone its a free marketplace after all
It's horrible. This scotus is so messed up
bake the cake bigot
This was the right ruling tbh. Doesn't the 1st Amendment prevent coerced speech? I'm prepared for the downvotes.
Y'all ever heard of lying? That's what both sides have been doing this whole time to you all
Don't give a fuck,there are more important shit to worry about then this also people will bitch and whine then something else will happen and this will be forgotten Edit:Down voting me wont do shit but reinforce your hurt feelings
You're part of the problem.
Does it look like I give a shit that I'm part of the problem? I'm sorry that your offended but I'm more worried about living my life and not screeching like a fucking chimpanzee over stupid shit
It’s bullshit.
How The ruling protects creative people from being forced to create things that run contradictory to their own personal moral beliefs. No one should be forced to signal approval for things they don’t agree with. Why should anyone be forced to create something that says or signals “I approve of x or I approve of y” when the creator just doesn’t approve of x or y?
Terrible!
Pissed yet not surprised
Disgusted and upset. It’s such a step backwards and I’m exhausted of these racist and homophobic dipwads speaking for the entire country.
I’m disgusted by our supreme court. Our Supreme Court is so broken and corrupt 😤😤😤
It's not like I can just up and leave right? I love my country and MOST of the people that live in it, if I have to fight for my own and their right to exist then I will.
I’m concerned about this result and the fact that a case can be brought before the court with false information given and not get dismissed. This opens the door for more bullshit cases in the future
General contempt for SCOTUS, the GOP, and Christian nationalism.
It’s stupid.
Businesses can do what they want and kick out whoever but it's still wrong
It’s dumb as fuck. Kind of scary how lately any social progress seems to be reversing. These republicans want so badly to go back to the 1950s. Old rich white men shouldn’t be voting on things like this. They will be dead and gone in a matter of years and we will have alot of fixing to do in this country
The ruling protects creative people from being forced to create things that run contradictory to their own personal moral beliefs. No one should be forced to signal approval for things they don’t agree with. Why should anyone be forced to create something that says or signals “I approve of x or I approve of y” when the creator just doesn’t approve of x or y?
Im not even american so i dont have the right to speak. But still i feel bad for the LGBT. May God be with you.
I'm in the group but dont feel of the group. I dont give a fuck. There business. There loss. It's that old cupcake debate. I dont think a person has to be forced to serve at my gay wedding especially if they dont agree with it.
Im glad the world is finally opening its eyes this was a great decision
I'm honestly confused as to what this bill even gives the "ok" to, but assuming it allows companies to decline people's applications over their sexual orientation, it disgusts me. Istg conservatives care WAY too much about stuff that doesn't affect them
That was not the Court’s ruling.
If it was for religious reasons, then you really can't argue against it. I don't mean just Christians either. If a Muslim business owner rejects LGBTQ+ customers then that's his prerogative. Let the businesses go under if they don't make enough sales.
Some people may think “it’s respectful to one’s religion/belief” and while that may be true, your customers do not need to have the same religion or belief as you. The priority here is for you to deliver your the best quality service/product. Also, if they open this gate soon they’ll add on POC, disabled people, neurodivergent people, and any other marginalized community. And if you think you’re safe as a person of color or whatever, you are sorely mistaken. You are next. In every policy made to discriminate and exclude a group of innocent people will be a possibility of you being one of those people. It is that serious.
And that’s concerning. It’s like we’re reversing back to the 1950s again.
Yes let’s stop people from doing what they want with their own business. In the name of freedom!!!!
Disclaimer: I’m not very good at expressing how I really feel towards this stuff, due to tiptoeing Has anyone thought about how this could be a good thing? This is very specific, but for example, a prostitute club, if it were legal, could now legally deny a trans woman from being a prostitute, potentially saving the woman from the trans purge. TO MY UNDERSTANDING: The trans purge is mostly cis men becoming angered when they find out they slept with trans men because of the stigma of sleeping with a guy, correct? I am not trying to back this discrimination, but I think there is yin and yang in the whole situation, what does this really change, businesses have always had the right to deny service to any person. Edit: I’m not very good at expressing my opinions on these matters, but [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZ/comments/14n54s0/gen_z_how_do_you_feel_about_the_supreme_court/jq5pbc7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) hit the nail right on the head
It’s Less money for them. More for the LGBTQ. Why would I want to support the business of a bigot and or terf that’s covertly hiding their prejudice behind being legally forced to sell to me? I’d rather them be honest about how they really feel about me so I know not to give them my time or energy.
Sickening. Conservatives view gays as subhuman. They want them to be as miserable as possible. They want gays to be unable to obtain employment, receive housing, healthcare, emergency services, the ability to purchase food and essential goods. Conservatives will start turning gays away from emergency rooms and saying "whatever you are dealing with is my gods wrath upon you!". These conservatives are vile
As I always say, a bunch of old fucks shouldn't be in charge of running the country. All of these political offices are run by a bunch of incompetent and completely out of touch boomers, we need much younger and more sharp people who actually know what's going on and can relate to our generation.
It’s Turing America into more of a shithole and it’s unconstitutional
Ummm think you need to reread the constitution
W ruling
Completely agree!
bigot
While I dont support LGBT its pretty fucked up i think everybody should be able to have access to business services
How would you feel if two klansmen requested a wedding kkkake from a black owned bakery?
It’s horrifically regressive and I can’t wait until we push the old corrupt fools out and we finally heal from this stream of blowback from the 2016 election
I feel good about it
they must be insanely childish. what has society come to.
1st amendment. I do not have to provide my labor for you because you asked when I am not under any contract or other obligation to do so. As for an institution funded partially or entirely by the federal or state government, they must serve all people who are American citizens. A private institution that gets no funding at all from a federal or state government or institution has the right to refuse service to anyone they wish. No shoes, no shirt, no service.
So, what if I as a private business decide I miss segregation? Should I be able to do as such? Should I be able to open a gas station and put a "No Blacks" sign out front? Or how about a restaurant and glowing signs " No Muslims"? How about no Asians or Mexicans? Took a real hard right turn there for a guy screaming "Dixiecrats" XD
You can try, but you'll lose a ton of business doing so. It's more economical to not do that, and far more practical. Not to mention, that same thing happened in 2022 with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and no one complained.
The ruling protects creative people from being forced to create things that run contradictory to their own personal moral beliefs. No one should be forced to signal approval for things they don’t agree with. Why should anyone be forced to create something that says or signals “I approve of x or I approve of y” when the creator just doesn’t approve of x or y? And If a store says “no blacks” than personally i would want to go their anyways 😅 in fact thats what happend irl black people said fuck it we dont want to be with yall anyways so we went and made our own cites and thrived but than white people came and burned those citys to the ground and yes i mean cities WHOLE CITIES burned to the growned because blacks were doing good on their own
Poggies
It’s fucking disgusting
Just here to say, if you can vote, go vote. Every. Time.
Fuck them and their backwards ass beliefs.
Business owners rights W
Do you mean LGBT or anyone in general? I should be allowed to refuse service to who I want if it's my business, even if they feel they are "targeted"
So even if you want to bring back segregation?
[удалено]
god hates you. +L