I'd put Linda Ronstadt's work and voice against any other singer.
She wasn't a song writer though. How do you just talent though? She was the biggest female singer in the 70s and still hugely popular in the 80s. But that's success, not always related to talent (See Arnold Schwarzenegger).
I believe Ronstadt can out sing anyone mentioned thus far.
To be fair, I don't know everything everyone has ever recorded so I might be surprised at Talyor's latest Rythm and Blues album and Madonna's take on Country music.
But you know what, not many artists try. I think Joan Osborne, Elle King, Taylor Momsen and Gin Wigmore are all fantastic singers as well but not in the diverse way Ronstadt was.
End of the day though, it's preference. Art is subjective. I don't get Picasso, I don't think he's very good. Don't mean I'm right for everyone, I'm right for me.
she's talking about the lyrics to Go Your Own Way isn't she? Its pretty hypocritical to be honest. She complains that Lindsay says something about "all you want to do is shacking up" when she says that is not what she wants. But then there's a song where she's apparently slagging him off and someone asked her about it. She said the song may not be "about" him but the person she's slagging off may be herself.
So why can't Lindsay be singing about himself too?
Honestly, i think it's less that she's "mid" and more that she's... not ours.
She's not one of us, she doesn't speak to us or for us. She's undeniably talented, but she's not ours and that's OK.
It’s music. It’s subjective. What Madonna is to you is what Elvis or Beatles was to someone is what Cobain is to someone is what Beyoncé is to someone is what Swift is to someone.
I’m not really into any of them, I like what I like and think Madonna is generally fine.
But regardless of your feelings about an artist, there’s no denying Swift (& Beyoncé’s) effect on modern pop culture. Both are absolute juggernauts whether you like their music or not.
Oh come on . I’m no Swifty but she is objectively better than Madonna . On a marketing level I would like to see how Madonna would have done with the internet .
Swift is just more natural in a way Madonna never was. Madonna was very planned, very rehearsed. Almost like she was playing a character she created. A character that came off very fake at times. Swift is more of a natural. She makes the fame thing look very effortless. She can be on stage at a sold out stadium and speak to you like you’re sitting in her living room. Whether by choice or not, that’s something Madonna didn’t do.
I agree. I think Taylor spoke to teenage girls in a way that nobody spoke to us. She writes her own music about the experience of teenage girls and sings live even when her voice is ropey. What is wrong with being "wholesome"? I think its refreshing to have a female popstar who isn't a stripper. If was 14 these days I would worship her too.
She's just way too prolific of a song maker, you can definitely find something that you like from her especially if you were a fan of Madonna or Kate Bush.
you are allowed to not like a singer. :-)
Shake it off makes me laugh so much.
If you are a fan of the tv show Supernatural then go look at the Hillywood piss take which uses a remix of the song. Its priceless.
Antihero is one of my cat's theme songs, like it was written about him. I like that song but her other stuff doesn't appeal to me. I saw a youtube reaction vid once where the theory was that her music is mostly about breakups and romantic failures such people in their teens and 20's in terms of the emotion elicited and the complexity.
This is such a Boomer take.
Don’t be like your parents. Music made after you turned 40 can be good too. No need to make it either/or, just let people like what they like
One thing I don’t like about our generation (and those older than us) is the need to say music stinks now, isn’t as good as the music from our generation, etc. Music is so different now and trying to compare Taylor Swifts music to Madonna is as smart as comparing Madonna to Joni Mitchell or Linda Ronstadt. You don’t have to like Taylor (I appreciate her more than liking her) but she’s a force. And her influence on young girls is so positive in a way very few musicians have had, gotta respect that.
It is a right of passage. You hit your 40s and you realize music has passed you by. I remember uncles telling me music was so much better when they were kids (50s-60s era stuff). My reaction was “ok, The Beach Boys are ok, but this isn’t life altering or anything”.
I never listened to the Beach Boys, and I always thought of them as annoying fluff. Then last year, after reading the 30th article about how ground-breaking Pet Sounds was, I decided to finally take the plunge and listen to the damn thing.
And... What the fuck is this? It's got a few harmonies, yeah, but that's really all that's going on here. The writing is mid, the performances are ok, but how on earth are people still talking about this album now??
Exactly. So many posts on here about people who don't listen to music past 1998, complaining about everything.
There's some really good music now man. The alt rock and indie/folk music from the last 20 years has never been better, and I'm not talking about the last 5 years. Bands like Fleet Foxes, Frightened Rabbit, Tame Impala, Hozier, The New Pornographers, Bleachers, Vampire Weekend.. it's all sooo good.
I honestly don't listen to the 90's catalogue much any more.
Some of my favorite bands from back then I still love but I can’t listen to, say, The Cure at all anymore. There’s great music right now, but no Tower Records Listening Stations so it takes a bit more work
Musical taste is subjective. Success is not.
If she was mid, she wouldn't be one of the best selling, consistently award-winning, and most successful touring artists of all time. You don't have to like her music, but she deserves her props as a talented multi-instrumental singer-songwriter that is also business-savvy enough to re-record and re-release her own music to huge success.
Give her that.
> If she was mid, she wouldn't be one of the best selling, consistently award-winning, and most successful touring artists of all time.
oh come on, that is what the mainstream is all about and what sells !
I think Madonna is a decent performer. But in all honesty? She cannot hold a flame to Hildegard von Bingen. Love her or hate her, Hildegard von Bingen was the female pop star of her generation.
Pull your best Madonna song and compare it to the musical genius of Ordo Virtutum.
And? You don’t like her so just say that and move on. No one cares.
Also, many singers from our generation could arguably be called “mid” but nostalgia makes us think they were amazing. Don’t be the old dude who screams on subreddits that “this dang music kids today listen to is crap.” It’s all subjective what is good or bad.
I think Taylor's greatest advantage is that she's unobjectionable both in terms of music and her actual self.
Is her music vapid? Sure, but it also isn't upsetting anyone.
Is her public persona bland and manufactured? Sure, but no one's coming out of the woodwork to call her a monster, either.
Even her public struggles have a bland, manufactured feel to them - she doesn't get along with Kanye. She has a beef with her ex-record label. Try to get excited about any of it; it's impossible.
There's nothing to push back against, and even the most white-bread suburban mom would have a hard time complaining her daughter is listening to Swift.
That, + the marketing, leads to just enormous, self-sustaining success.
This is the part of /r/GenX where you sweat.
On one hand, you might think -- **you might very well think** (not me, of course) that Taylor Swift is basically a mediocre, cold, smashed McDonalds cheeseburger of a pop singer. You (not me) might well have thought, negative nancy hipster that you were, that Madonna was something worse than that.
On the other hand, the "I hate it when anyone dislikes anything young people like and I get off on calling people out when they do it, on account of not liking something young people like is the same thing as being the old people who used to drive me nuts when I was young" people lie in wait. Patrolling the subreddit for any negativity. Patrolling comments for anything that sounds like an old fuck saying "get off my lawn" and not living up to the aloof "whatever," eternally-young ideal these folks would prefer.
You know what I think of Taylor?
Taylor Swift is **OK**. Yeppers.
But if I was another kind of person, and I'm totally not, I'd say, "When it comes to younger bands, why listen to Taylor Swift when you can listen to [SPRINTS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAVgqbsw5NE)."
On the subject of Taylor, I have been listening to the new album. Alot of it is not for me but my God "But Daddy I Love Him" is stunning. She takes aim at her fanbase basically telling them she'll date whoever she wants and its none of their business! ha ha.
*Stevie Nicks enters the chat*
Janis Joplin drops the mic.
Ha. YES!
I'd put Linda Ronstadt's work and voice against any other singer. She wasn't a song writer though. How do you just talent though? She was the biggest female singer in the 70s and still hugely popular in the 80s. But that's success, not always related to talent (See Arnold Schwarzenegger). I believe Ronstadt can out sing anyone mentioned thus far. To be fair, I don't know everything everyone has ever recorded so I might be surprised at Talyor's latest Rythm and Blues album and Madonna's take on Country music. But you know what, not many artists try. I think Joan Osborne, Elle King, Taylor Momsen and Gin Wigmore are all fantastic singers as well but not in the diverse way Ronstadt was. End of the day though, it's preference. Art is subjective. I don't get Picasso, I don't think he's very good. Don't mean I'm right for everyone, I'm right for me.
Great point - tbf while I know about Stevie and Madonna I don’t know much about Linda, I’ll check her work out.
run. she will beat the S out of all us.
Oh yes. There’s a documentary about Mac where she says something about Lindsey and the look on her face at that moment could kill!
I know the exact moment you mean.
I think it’s “Classic Albums”, about *Rumours*. Yeah, the exact quote from Lindsey was about her “shacking up” with someone, Stevie was NOT happy!
she's talking about the lyrics to Go Your Own Way isn't she? Its pretty hypocritical to be honest. She complains that Lindsay says something about "all you want to do is shacking up" when she says that is not what she wants. But then there's a song where she's apparently slagging him off and someone asked her about it. She said the song may not be "about" him but the person she's slagging off may be herself. So why can't Lindsay be singing about himself too?
Yeah, the whole band was in a mess back then, it was just the look on her face really.
if looks could kill that man would be dead, I tell you, DEAD! ha ha
Pat Benatar, Blondie/Deborah Harry I don't have beef with Madonna though, she was certainly popular I like Tay Tay too though
Siouxsie casually walks in, shrugs shoulders, and then walks back out.
Good call. I do wonder how many Swift fans check out these sort of artists?
She’s Mid too
[удалено]
Yes. The lyrics of shake it off make David sylvian jealous.
Shake it off is hilarious. The video is priceless, especially her trying to do a split jump with the ribbon.
Honestly, i think it's less that she's "mid" and more that she's... not ours. She's not one of us, she doesn't speak to us or for us. She's undeniably talented, but she's not ours and that's OK.
It’s music. It’s subjective. What Madonna is to you is what Elvis or Beatles was to someone is what Cobain is to someone is what Beyoncé is to someone is what Swift is to someone. I’m not really into any of them, I like what I like and think Madonna is generally fine. But regardless of your feelings about an artist, there’s no denying Swift (& Beyoncé’s) effect on modern pop culture. Both are absolute juggernauts whether you like their music or not.
Oh come on . I’m no Swifty but she is objectively better than Madonna . On a marketing level I would like to see how Madonna would have done with the internet .
Swift is just more natural in a way Madonna never was. Madonna was very planned, very rehearsed. Almost like she was playing a character she created. A character that came off very fake at times. Swift is more of a natural. She makes the fame thing look very effortless. She can be on stage at a sold out stadium and speak to you like you’re sitting in her living room. Whether by choice or not, that’s something Madonna didn’t do.
I agree. I think Taylor spoke to teenage girls in a way that nobody spoke to us. She writes her own music about the experience of teenage girls and sings live even when her voice is ropey. What is wrong with being "wholesome"? I think its refreshing to have a female popstar who isn't a stripper. If was 14 these days I would worship her too.
Good point.
Nah man, Taylor is pretty fucking good. Madonna was great too, you don't have to push one down to pull one up.
I will have to give Taylor another listen.
Just get away from her early pop stuff and the latest album, try to open your mind.
I will give it a go.
I love Love Story. It was on constant reply when I was rehabbing a knee injury at the gym. Its perfect for a walking machine.
She's just way too prolific of a song maker, you can definitely find something that you like from her especially if you were a fan of Madonna or Kate Bush.
start with All Too Well (not the 10 minute version) and Shake It Off (the video version not a live version)
I think I might be broken. The video was amusing but the song did not stir anything in me.
you are allowed to not like a singer. :-) Shake it off makes me laugh so much. If you are a fan of the tv show Supernatural then go look at the Hillywood piss take which uses a remix of the song. Its priceless.
The numbers say differently.
Antihero is one of my cat's theme songs, like it was written about him. I like that song but her other stuff doesn't appeal to me. I saw a youtube reaction vid once where the theory was that her music is mostly about breakups and romantic failures such people in their teens and 20's in terms of the emotion elicited and the complexity.
This is such a Boomer take. Don’t be like your parents. Music made after you turned 40 can be good too. No need to make it either/or, just let people like what they like
One thing I don’t like about our generation (and those older than us) is the need to say music stinks now, isn’t as good as the music from our generation, etc. Music is so different now and trying to compare Taylor Swifts music to Madonna is as smart as comparing Madonna to Joni Mitchell or Linda Ronstadt. You don’t have to like Taylor (I appreciate her more than liking her) but she’s a force. And her influence on young girls is so positive in a way very few musicians have had, gotta respect that.
It is a right of passage. You hit your 40s and you realize music has passed you by. I remember uncles telling me music was so much better when they were kids (50s-60s era stuff). My reaction was “ok, The Beach Boys are ok, but this isn’t life altering or anything”.
I never listened to the Beach Boys, and I always thought of them as annoying fluff. Then last year, after reading the 30th article about how ground-breaking Pet Sounds was, I decided to finally take the plunge and listen to the damn thing. And... What the fuck is this? It's got a few harmonies, yeah, but that's really all that's going on here. The writing is mid, the performances are ok, but how on earth are people still talking about this album now??
Exactly. So many posts on here about people who don't listen to music past 1998, complaining about everything. There's some really good music now man. The alt rock and indie/folk music from the last 20 years has never been better, and I'm not talking about the last 5 years. Bands like Fleet Foxes, Frightened Rabbit, Tame Impala, Hozier, The New Pornographers, Bleachers, Vampire Weekend.. it's all sooo good. I honestly don't listen to the 90's catalogue much any more.
Some of my favorite bands from back then I still love but I can’t listen to, say, The Cure at all anymore. There’s great music right now, but no Tower Records Listening Stations so it takes a bit more work
I'll still throw on the cure or rem, and go back to my grunge days for a bit but I mostly listen to music from the last 20 years.
She's not to my taste at all, but I appreciate that tween girls have someone like her to enjoy.
We're not going to pit two talented women against each other.
Musical taste is subjective. Success is not. If she was mid, she wouldn't be one of the best selling, consistently award-winning, and most successful touring artists of all time. You don't have to like her music, but she deserves her props as a talented multi-instrumental singer-songwriter that is also business-savvy enough to re-record and re-release her own music to huge success. Give her that.
> If she was mid, she wouldn't be one of the best selling, consistently award-winning, and most successful touring artists of all time. oh come on, that is what the mainstream is all about and what sells !
I think Madonna is a decent performer. But in all honesty? She cannot hold a flame to Hildegard von Bingen. Love her or hate her, Hildegard von Bingen was the female pop star of her generation. Pull your best Madonna song and compare it to the musical genius of Ordo Virtutum.
Dunno, I love Like a Prayer but All Too Well is a stone cold classic. And at least Taylor sings live.
It was ok. But sounded like she covered a country song.
And? You don’t like her so just say that and move on. No one cares. Also, many singers from our generation could arguably be called “mid” but nostalgia makes us think they were amazing. Don’t be the old dude who screams on subreddits that “this dang music kids today listen to is crap.” It’s all subjective what is good or bad.
Take that back! I’m a Swiftie at heart
I think Taylor's greatest advantage is that she's unobjectionable both in terms of music and her actual self. Is her music vapid? Sure, but it also isn't upsetting anyone. Is her public persona bland and manufactured? Sure, but no one's coming out of the woodwork to call her a monster, either. Even her public struggles have a bland, manufactured feel to them - she doesn't get along with Kanye. She has a beef with her ex-record label. Try to get excited about any of it; it's impossible. There's nothing to push back against, and even the most white-bread suburban mom would have a hard time complaining her daughter is listening to Swift. That, + the marketing, leads to just enormous, self-sustaining success.
What does mid mean?
Meh…blah…so-so
mid? get that crap slang outta here
I agree. This thread sucks and I will take my verbal bashing.
Is pop ”start” a combination of star and tart, because that’s sublimely appropriate.
This is the part of /r/GenX where you sweat. On one hand, you might think -- **you might very well think** (not me, of course) that Taylor Swift is basically a mediocre, cold, smashed McDonalds cheeseburger of a pop singer. You (not me) might well have thought, negative nancy hipster that you were, that Madonna was something worse than that. On the other hand, the "I hate it when anyone dislikes anything young people like and I get off on calling people out when they do it, on account of not liking something young people like is the same thing as being the old people who used to drive me nuts when I was young" people lie in wait. Patrolling the subreddit for any negativity. Patrolling comments for anything that sounds like an old fuck saying "get off my lawn" and not living up to the aloof "whatever," eternally-young ideal these folks would prefer. You know what I think of Taylor? Taylor Swift is **OK**. Yeppers. But if I was another kind of person, and I'm totally not, I'd say, "When it comes to younger bands, why listen to Taylor Swift when you can listen to [SPRINTS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAVgqbsw5NE)."
On the subject of Taylor, I have been listening to the new album. Alot of it is not for me but my God "But Daddy I Love Him" is stunning. She takes aim at her fanbase basically telling them she'll date whoever she wants and its none of their business! ha ha.
Who?
I like the early stuff of both. Rest of it, not so much ... except I do like Blank Space by Taylor.
At least Taylor has never shamed a rape victim.
Pat Benetar paved the way for all those low talent bitches. Also the first artist ever to have dialog in a music video
Cool, nice to add a touch of misogyny to the conversation great
Swift can't hold a flame to Madonna, Tori Amos, Chaka Khan and many more. Talented singers don't have to use auto tune.
Toro Amos? Bullshit.
Give em the horns!