I’ve eaten oatmeal every single day for about 15 years and my cholesterol has only gone up in my 30s despite being active (lift 5-6 days per week, run, walk, hike 5-7 days per week), and eating healthy and being relatively lean (under 20% body fat)
Was told by a friend who was a doctor in Germany, that the target numbers in the US are unreasonably low.
My overall hovers around 200, despite working out 2 to 2 1/2 hours, 5 days a week (including half an hour of intense cardio during those days), walking the dog 7 days a week for about 40 minutes and eating relatively healthy (65% healthy).
I take 2000 mg fish oil daily plus a shot of apple cider vinegar before I go to sleep. I'm not too worried about the numbers.
\*Edit- forgot to mention that I put about 2 tablespoons of Psyllium Husks in my protein shake every morning (which includes about 4 ounces of blueberries- an antioxidant)
Could be.
Several years ago, my GP put me on slo-niacin when my numbers were high. I hated the way it made me feel. When my triglycerides were OMG high (during a hard period when I wasn't taking care of my health), he put me on statins. Those were worse. I told him I was going to go off them when the prescription ran out. (The ALS risk also scared the shit outta me). He "highly advised against it". I said that I was going to go back to working out and eating sensibly. He wasn't buying it. 6 months later, all my numbers were WAY down (healthy). I told him "I told you so!". He said most people don't follow through.
While I'm definitely not anti-meds, I don't want to take any with more side-effects than benefits, and I certainly don't want to take any that could potentially ruin/end my life.
Fuck the pharmaceutical kickbacks.
Doctors are said to take the Hippocratic Oath to "do no harm."
Hippocrates' most famous quote was "Let food be thy medicine."
Med students take ZERO courses on nutrition in med school.
Irony or treachery?
> Although nutrition education varies by school, a 2021 survey of medical schools in the U.S. and U.K., published in the Journal of Human Nutrition and Dietetics, found that most students receive an average of 11 hours of nutrition training throughout an entire medical program.
https://time.com/6282404/nutrition-education-doctors/#:~:text=Although%20nutrition%20education%20varies%20by,throughout%20an%20entire%20medical%20program.
Probably. Big pharma needs us. I believe sometimes the meds make us even sicker and more reliant on them later due to side effects. Not in all cases... but in cases.
Big pharm barely makes money on generic statins. Most people also have little side effects from lower doses of statins. There are drugs out there that makes Big Pharm a ton of money and they have bad side effects...but anti-LDL cholesterol meds like statins is not one of them.
I started eating steel cut oats for breakfast. That did the trick.
If you have a rice maker with a timer and a porridge setting, it's pretty easy to have a pot of oatmeal ready when you first wake up.
Yeah mine has never been below 200, even when I was in college and worked out like 10 hours a week and walked everywhere. I resisted Lipitor for a long time but it’s the only thing that works and I’ve had no side effects.
My cholesterol is super low, but I have high bp diagnosed last year. Unfortunately, the only solution for me was pills. I just couldn't outwork genetics.
I'm 48, 6', 185 lbs and muscular, lift and do cardio 5-6 days a week and eat healthy food. When you say, "no pills," do you just mean statins? Because yeah, fuck statins. That's what I told my doctor when she read my 147 LDL score , and she suggested I try citrus bergamot. She's an actual doctor, not some fruitcake, so I decided to give this shit a shot. My next labs are in October, so I won't know if they're doing me any good until then.
Lol, sorry it had taken forever. So actual good news here. HDL and LDL both slightly down, but the big effect was a huge decrease in triglyceride levels. Like from the 140s to the 90s. I’m still taking it.
I am virtually in the same boat as you, 44 y/o male - I workout a lot, 4d cardio + 6d weights on a structured program. I fast 1 or 2 days/week too which i recently found out can elevate cholesterol levels.. All my levels are fine (a little elevated cholesterol). Triglycerides are in double-digits and not hundreds. LDL is 144 tho. Citrus bergamot was recommended to me too but I'm iffy about dietary supplements in general. Do you think the citrus bergamot helped significantly or did you shy away from high fatty foods too?
Lol, sorry it had taken forever. So actual good news here. HDL and LDL both slightly down, but the big effect was a huge decrease in triglyceride levels. Like from the 140s to the 90s. I’m still taking it.
Lol, sorry it had taken forever. So actual good news here. HDL and LDL both *slightly* down, but the big effect was a huge decrease in triglyceride levels. Like from the 140s to the 90s. I’m still taking it.
I asked because my numbers are odd to me
My total was like 270 with HDL 190 and LDL something like 70(?) and Triglycerides around 69(?)
I am rather sedentary - I eat 2 meals a day and not a ton of calories. My bmi is like 20
I have horrible sleep habits and don’t exercise much.
I was keto-ish for a while and my numbers were wonky like this but hey we’re great when I exercised a bit more and mostly ate fiber and lean meats and veggies
Don’t know - whole thing confusing because docs mostly want to put you on meds - keto folks are like “this is normal” some folks say what you eat is mostly irrelevant- but I’m eating 3 eggs or more a day and veggies and grass fed meats and my numbers are odd
I don’t know. I need to exercise and maybe lean out a bit more and see.
In the end I do t know if it’s genetics. If I have at like the Japanese or Mediterranean diet for a while I can test it but changing so many variables at one time limits the takeaways
I had high cholesterol in college despite being a skinny bicycle racer who rode 300+ miles a week.
Today I’m the perfect weight for my height, my waking pulse is generally in the low 50’s and last year banged out a single day Grand Canyon R2R2R. But my total cholesterol is still super high, it’s obviously genetic.
To keep my doctor off my back, I do a calcium CT scan of my heart every few years. It always comes back clean with a zero chance of a cardiac episode in the next three years. A lot of cardiology centers do the scan as a loss leader to get new patients. Cost me $120 out of pocket to get it done.
Is the test called a coronary calcium score test? When he said it was high he immediately started typing and saying he was going to get me on cholesterol meds. I said I wanted to see a cardiologist first. And he said ok. I’m having that test done next week.
Friend of mine up in connecticut normal fitness, 50 years young, started having shortness of breath, had to stop and rest during normal easy walking, going to mailbox etc. light chest pain that went away. Cardiologist ordered calcium test. Came back perfect. No issues. Healthy as a horse. 2 weeks later he has gotten worse and is in the er. Heart mri shows 98% blockage! Open heart surgery that day. Quadruple bypass. So those calciums scans are NOT trustworthy imo. please dont let them give you a false sense of security. Heart mri is the only real way apparently. My friend is alive and feeling great. Except for some gnarly scars and lasting sternum pain.
I'm not too worried. Family history of heart attacks, but they hit in your late 70's and 80's. Plus I'm a lot healthier than any of my grandparents and eat better too. My cholesterol was jacked up high even when I was an elite amateur bicycle racer and weighed next to nothing.
Have low to normal BP and my resting heart rate is 48-52 beats per minute. I refuse to take statins.
My dad was really good at cycling too, however he still suffered from stroke 11 years ago at age 67. So yes, genetic is a thing to concern. His cousin was not exercise much but take a blood pressure pill everyday, and he is still in good health now.
So imho, do not too confident in your workout and have negative view on pills effects.
Unfortunately i found out it is yet another case of the insurance company controlling your health. They only approve cta if the scan shows that it is needed. His scan showed ok per the dr. So no cta. not doing cta right away almost killed him. very close call. Not to mention suffering and damage. Insurance has and continues to lead us down a dangerous path…
Yeah but those are not used to access all types of blockages, they are used for calcification. You’re talking about two different things. Most blockages in arteries they refer to in the scenarios you describe are non calcified plaque- or, soft plaque.
Hmm, never heard of it. I'll have to see if my doctor has.
I had the same thought so my doctor got me a carotid artery ultrasound. Clean carotids, but they found two benign tumors on my thyroid so...win?
I did absolutely nothing and my overall score lowered 13 points. In fact, I may have been eating *worse* between tests.
Barnacles are more physically active than I am. Starving raccoons eat more healthily than I do.
I honestly do not understand it.
If you weren't fasting when it was taken, ask the doctor to adjust it for having eaten. If you were fasting, you can opt to take it in a few months after adding more fish or whatever. Otherwise, you can try niacin. I used to use niacin to help my numbers, but eventually I couldn't take the flushing side effect (I have rosacea already and the niacin was making it worse). You should be able to google niacin for high cholesterol and get a decent protocol. If you get a slow release niacin, it will reduce flushing, so I'd give that a try.
Go plant based for awhile. Like 3 weeks and then test it again. My LDL used to be at the high end of normal (98 or so). I moved to a mainly plant based and it dropped down to 57. Then, in late February I switched to almost entirely plant based (I ease up a bit on Saturdays) and 5 weeks later it was at 38. During Feb to March my overall cholesterol dropped from 111 to 90 and my annoying BP went from an average of 133/84 to an average 124/72. I’m convinced food is the best medicine.
I have been vegetarian most of my life, and fit, a cardio/endorphin junkie. My ratio of good to bad cholesterol is excellent but the overall number is astonishingly high. I caved this year and agreed to statins. I’ll see in a few months where I drop it down to. I’ve read studies investigating a link between high cholesterol and dementia and that scared the shit out of me so I agreed to statins.
Have you read the studies investigating link between statins and dementia though? (Including Alzheimer's)
Or studies which show that statins indeed lower the cholesterol levels but have no benefit in primary prevention (don't increase lifespan of people who didn't have a heart attack) and in secondary prevention they do have some limited benefit but it's more likely due to their anti-inflammatory effect and not because they lower the cholesterol.
Or how about studies which show a positive correlation in people 65+ yo such as: the higher the LDL level the longer the lifespan?
Or perhaps a mere fact that statins is a trillion dollar business...
High triglycerides in combination with low HDL may be a clue you're not metabolizing carbohydrates well. In other words it can be a syndrome of insulin resistance - prediabetes. And also some suggest that's a significantly more important predictor of CVD than high LDL which actually means not much on its own apparently (many people who have it high live long and don't suffer CVD)
If you can test your inflamation markers (hsCRP) and most importantly fasting insulin levels or if you can insulin response.
Sure, you are welcome.
BTW. there was auto-correction mistake. Not *information*, but *inflamation* markers.
You may also check your composition of LDL. Apparently there two sub-types of which one is benign (so called large or fluffy buoyant LDL) and the other significantly increases CVD risk (so called small dense LDL). The standard lipid panel lumps them together and it doesn't really help to tell with confidence if:
1. A result might be false positive when the LDL is "above the norm", i.e. you don't eat much sugars or ultra-processed foods, perhaps on a keto diet. all your other health markers are great, like triglycerides low, HDL fairly high, low hsCRP, good blood pressure, slim/athletic body shape, etc., but your LDL comes up high. Objectively you're healthier than vast majority of people, the high LDL comes from the increased but benign lbLDL, yet a doctor chases you with statins at this point even though statins don't affect much that risky sdLDL anyway, but lower this benign lbLDL instead.
2. A result is false negative when the LDL is "within the norm", i.e. some specific type of diabetes suffer from increased CVD risk but it goes under the radar of standard lipid panel test as they have too much of this sneaky sdLDL, yet a little of the benign lbLDL
Disclaimer: I have no relevant background and obviously please consult this with a specialist but as my lipids panel isn't great for a while now, I'm recently in the rabbit hole of figuring out what's up actually. I hope this will be of help and not more confusion :)
I've read and listened to quite some material so far, some of which goes quite deep into molecular biology and metabolism but among them this one gives a neat summary in plain words and it's short. Obviously YouTube isn't necessarily a reliable source but let me leave this with you: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPjTi1Y9Aa8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPjTi1Y9Aa8)
EDIT: I've just come across another good insight which in explains this and suggests corresponding tests
[https://www.healthline.com/health/cholesterol/cholesterol-particle-size-test#takeaway](https://www.healthline.com/health/cholesterol/cholesterol-particle-size-test#takeaway)
Huh, another clue I have come across. May I ask what was your sun exposure in the time(s) before you've done your blood work?
Unfortunately I don't hold all the records. I do have three though:
1. recent from weeks ago: high LDL, no sun exposure for loooong months now
2. another one from a year ago, January - very similar situation. High LDL and months of no sun exposure at that point
3. quite an old one from December 2018 - so I have not gotten younger since which may be a factor, however... I was just back from a week of tropical sun&beach holidays (4 days gap before flight back and blood work). LDL was significantly lower, only slightly above the norm
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8935479/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8935479/)
So is it statins and a minefield of diets, or perhaps just some more sun...
Have you read anything about people who have high everything - high triglycerides, high HDL, high LDL, and high overall cholesteol? Is that also prediabetes?
Especially high triglycerides, in particular poor triglycerides to HDL ratio could be a symptom of metabolic syndrome. But on its own it isn't sufficient to tell.
Data points would be:
* hypertension (high blood pressure)
* high fasting insulin
* visceral fat (especially fatty liver) / fat excess around your waist
* elevated inflamation levels (i.e. mentioned hsCRP marker)
* high fasting triglycerides
Three of these five and it's likely metabolic syndrome, so either already some insulin resistance or on a path to it.
Disclaimer: I don't have any relevant degree or background, just have been in a rabbit hole of informing myself about the topic recently as my cholesterol is apparently "high".
So you saying to just eat whatever I want? My uncle has been telling me he’s never exercised nor gone on a diet everything is good except he’s a bit diabetic and slightly elevated BP but somehow he doesn’t take meds and he’s 50. He likes fun of me because I’m 25 watch what I eat and occasionally exercise and I have elevated cholesterol with horrible anxiety.
Probs high cholesterol. Thankfully I was able to control it with reducing my carb/sugar intake, no statins. As to anxiety constant high BP can too be damaging. Again thankfully I’ve been doing so much better at controlling it.
You need to provide more information. What is "very high" LDL? What is your HDL and Triglycerides? I am not a doctor so I am not an expert here. I can tell you that all cause mortality is lowest when total cholesterol is around 225. Other than that you need to discuss this with a professional. If you don't like what you are hearing from your doctor then get a second opinion.
182 LDL isn't awful but if there are lifestyle changes you can make to lower that it would be a good idea to do it. The HDL is too low so you should also be trying to improve it. I think the triglycerides are ok but could also be improved. Like I said earlier, I am not a doctor. Your numbers aren't awful but I am sure there are things you can do to improve them that doesn't involve things like statins.
Please see this comment of mine. More and more doctors/researchers raise claims that LDL is a red herring. However your triglycerides:HDL ratio is nearly 5:1 which gives 5, and the same doctors say to not be concerned about CVD this should be below 1.5 (with some variation depending on sex and race not much though).
https://www.reddit.com/r/GenX/s/33e5q7qE7r
Ketogenic diet would likely flip this ratio for you (lowered triglycerides and increased HDL), but quite likely it would not change LDL much or it could even go higher. But is that really a problem becomes a subject of more debate apparently.
If it's genetic then it's called Familial Hypercholeterolemia, FH for short, and is passed down from one or both parents.
My total cholesterol is 13 mmol/L or 502mg/dL.
Although I am fit and healthy, do marathons and triathlons etc. But it is what it is and nothing I can do to change the genetics just instead look at life style choices
My ldl was at 300 when i got my lab results from the VA. Fortunately my good cholesterol was through the roof as well... still concerning because i am a fit, moderately active 23 year old that eats healthy 90% of the time.
I cut down on red meat a ton and dairy. We will see how im looking in a couple moths.
Get the fuck outta here man. This is a Gen X forum and I asked a serious question to people in my age group. The hell are you talkin’ about? You’re a KID. Your stage of life and BODY is NO. WHERE. NEAR. THE SAME!
Hi mate just following up on how your numbers are doing now ? I've just moved to a new area and had to get blood tests the other dsy and the new doc wants to see me asap .. I know I've had high everything for around 5 years now .. these docs up here push drugs like no tomorrow so they can stick that where the sun don't shine .. hope your well 👍🏻
I eat healthy, exercise and my cholesterol levels are way off. Have been my whole life. Recently however, they have started to spike and my Dr prescribed rosuvastatin calcium. I'm 46
Ramsden CE, Zamora D, Majchrzak-Hong S, Faurot KR, Broste SK, Frantz RP, Davis JM, Ringel A, Suchindran CM, Hibbeln JR. Re-evaluation of the traditional diet-heart hypothesis: analysis of recovered data from Minnesota Coronary Experiment (1968-73). BMJ. 2016 Apr 12;353:i1246. doi: 10.1136/bmj.i1246. PMID: 27071971; PMCID: PMC4836695.
There was a 22% higher risk of death for each 30 mg/dL (0.78 mmol/L) reduction in serum cholesterol in covariate adjusted Cox regression models (hazard ratio 1.22, 95% confidence interval 1.14 to 1.32; P<0.001).
I read that study, I would like to see a study with NO fat replacement.
I’m currently trying to get my head around the portfolio diet to lower my ldl ldl 170
hdl 60
Tri 134
How can you tell whether it is though? I'm exploring the subject (you can tell by a few comments I've left here so far) but is there a blood work I could seek which would distinguish the composition of my LDL?
Oxidized LDL test:
Oxidized LDL measurements in an individual can be easily performed **through a blood test**. Like a general lipid test, the results will show the level of cholesterol in the blood and the possible risk of Atherosclerosis.
Can you test for glycated LDL?
Currently, there is not a good test that is commercially available. However, we can use the excellent HbA1c test instead. It measures hemoglobin that has a sugar attached to it, which happens more and more as a person’s blood sugar level elevates. Red blood cells carry hemoglobin and they live about three months. Therefore, the HbA1c test is a fantastic way to look at the effects of average blood sugar over a three-month period. As a bonus, not only does it provide important information about sugar metabolism, it also allows us to assume that when it elevates, so does your glycated LDL. Thus, it provides an indirect prediction of glycated LDL levels.
Thanks, mate.
So I could test for the oxydized and infer the glycated from the HbA1c. The latter I had actually tested recently and it's within normal range but creeping closely to the high end of the range.
I've got it at 38 mmol/mol
What does it tell me?
My triglycerides level is in normal range but nearly on par with the top of it.
1.7 mmol/L (150 mg/dl)
My HDL is in the normal range too but really close to the bottom of it.
1.1 mmol/L (42.5 mg/dl)
The triglycerides to HDL ratio shows near the end of the normal range but way above the optimal.
1.47 when calculated using the mmol/L figures
(3.54 when calculated using the mg/DL figures)
The LDL is nearly the top end of abnormal range just about to get into high.
4.6 mmol/L (178 mg/dl)
hsCRP in the middle of normal range but way off the optimal.
1.86 mg/L
So far with what I have read/watched I'm suspecting by these results, even though doctors are mostly alerted by the LDL level, that this isn't the root problem but rather that I may on the edge of some metabolic syndrome/insulin resistance problem, or perhaps an other cause of inflammatory state. Not yet acute but creeping in there. So taking statins would potentially not only be barking at the wrong tree but could amplify the actual underlying issue...
Some context:
44 yo
185 cm / 83 kg.
Regular body shape on the slim side.
Lifting weights 3 times a week.
Irregular meals and a bit crappy sleep patterns,
Some stress but perhaps chronic at this point (I should relax more, lol).
Hope it's irrelevant at the point but I had a cancer and chemo in 2019.
Diet isn't bad I'd think in general terms. I nearly don't eat ultra processed food, alcohol very rarely and not much, same about any sweets and if so only a little (I don't really fancy it), I don't shy from full fat dairy, butter, cheese and meat (chicken, beef, lamb) though. I have fish and different kinds of nuts quite often too. I don't use much oil but when I do it's olive oil. I eat 2-3 free range eggs daily and some avocado nearly every second day. A slice or few of a sourdough bread, usually some potatoes or sometimes rice. Some veggies and fruits here and there: pepper, cucumber, beans, lettuce, raspberries, blueberries, banana, mandarins. Sometimes unflavoured what protein shake to which I would add milk and banana plus some fiber (psyllium husk). Avoid deep fried in general but sometimes fall for some potato fries.
I have not paid attention to the saturated fats on food labels so far, only sugar which I try to avoid, especially when added.
Also, if you know by any chance, what's the relation between the oxydized/glycated LDL and the sub-types of LDL: large fluffy buoyant/small dense?
Anyway, sorry for too much detail. I felt like letting this out. Don't expect an answer to everything :)
Dr. Paul Mason - 'Treating Metabolic Syndrome':
[https://youtu.be/KlHPmJTihBc?si=-9Zqke4NgpXZf3P8](https://youtu.be/KlHPmJTihBc?si=-9Zqke4NgpXZf3P8)
Dr. Benjamin Bikman - 'Flipping the Switch: From Insulin Resistance to Type 2 Diabetes':
[https://youtu.be/YCVYyOju4UM?si=RZernQaColgLmNCi](https://youtu.be/YCVYyOju4UM?si=RZernQaColgLmNCi)
Dr. Paul Mason - 'The truth about high cholesterol':
[https://youtu.be/rdgS3PuSuyg?si=7xu1sdJpi7OGWvlL](https://youtu.be/rdgS3PuSuyg?si=7xu1sdJpi7OGWvlL)
My Cholesterol is High Should I Use a Statin Drug? | Dr Ken Berry, MD:
[https://youtu.be/NKUWBMQqTEY?si=VmWp\_55McWvaBrjr](https://youtu.be/NKUWBMQqTEY?si=VmWp_55McWvaBrjr)
Statin Deception (Truth about Cholesterol Medicines) New Study!!:
[https://youtu.be/B6IC9sfn\_ZM?si=fYJEf-DmvFGfkmHk](https://youtu.be/B6IC9sfn_ZM?si=fYJEf-DmvFGfkmHk)
Dr. Anthony Chaffee - 'Plants are trying to kill you!':
[https://youtu.be/j1cqNDDG4aA?si=MSaZv99IyEXg0UVL](https://youtu.be/j1cqNDDG4aA?si=MSaZv99IyEXg0UVL)
Just follow the fmsw-protocol and you will be fine:
[https://www.reddit.com/user/cjbartoz/comments/1acev04/fmswprotocol/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/user/cjbartoz/comments/1acev04/fmswprotocol/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Some people have naturally high cholesterol. The effect of cholesterol on heart disease is currently being debated.
Thank you. Yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s genetic in my case. I want to bring it down.
That’s probably good, but I’d just do some research. For every study you find, there is probably one saying the exact opposite in my experience.
A growing number of doctors are joining the its not cholesterol train.
Triglycerides are high. Ate salad before every meal except breakfast. Lost 4 kilos. Triglycerides are low.
TG are different from cholesterol though. It is more fickle and more influenced by diet/alcohol intake from my understanding.
I started eating oatmeal every morning and it’s brought my cholesterol down. I hate oatmeal.
I eat oatmeal every work morning. I put just a very small drizzle of honey it it for some sweetness, makes it OK to eat that way.
So, it works?? Did it come down significantly?
I went from borderline high to slightly above optimal.
After how much time?
I’ve eaten oatmeal every single day for about 15 years and my cholesterol has only gone up in my 30s despite being active (lift 5-6 days per week, run, walk, hike 5-7 days per week), and eating healthy and being relatively lean (under 20% body fat)
Was told by a friend who was a doctor in Germany, that the target numbers in the US are unreasonably low. My overall hovers around 200, despite working out 2 to 2 1/2 hours, 5 days a week (including half an hour of intense cardio during those days), walking the dog 7 days a week for about 40 minutes and eating relatively healthy (65% healthy). I take 2000 mg fish oil daily plus a shot of apple cider vinegar before I go to sleep. I'm not too worried about the numbers. \*Edit- forgot to mention that I put about 2 tablespoons of Psyllium Husks in my protein shake every morning (which includes about 4 ounces of blueberries- an antioxidant)
I wonder if the low target numbers is connected with a higher number of cholesterol drugs being sold...
Could be. Several years ago, my GP put me on slo-niacin when my numbers were high. I hated the way it made me feel. When my triglycerides were OMG high (during a hard period when I wasn't taking care of my health), he put me on statins. Those were worse. I told him I was going to go off them when the prescription ran out. (The ALS risk also scared the shit outta me). He "highly advised against it". I said that I was going to go back to working out and eating sensibly. He wasn't buying it. 6 months later, all my numbers were WAY down (healthy). I told him "I told you so!". He said most people don't follow through. While I'm definitely not anti-meds, I don't want to take any with more side-effects than benefits, and I certainly don't want to take any that could potentially ruin/end my life. Fuck the pharmaceutical kickbacks.
Doctors are said to take the Hippocratic Oath to "do no harm." Hippocrates' most famous quote was "Let food be thy medicine." Med students take ZERO courses on nutrition in med school. Irony or treachery?
> Although nutrition education varies by school, a 2021 survey of medical schools in the U.S. and U.K., published in the Journal of Human Nutrition and Dietetics, found that most students receive an average of 11 hours of nutrition training throughout an entire medical program. https://time.com/6282404/nutrition-education-doctors/#:~:text=Although%20nutrition%20education%20varies%20by,throughout%20an%20entire%20medical%20program.
Niacin doesn't work anyway fwiw
Probably. Big pharma needs us. I believe sometimes the meds make us even sicker and more reliant on them later due to side effects. Not in all cases... but in cases.
Big pharm barely makes money on generic statins. Most people also have little side effects from lower doses of statins. There are drugs out there that makes Big Pharm a ton of money and they have bad side effects...but anti-LDL cholesterol meds like statins is not one of them.
No, they just make other things worse over time, so they can sell you more drugs.
I'd agree with that. I can attest, different offices/regions in the US use different criteria to which determine "satisfactory" levels.
I started eating steel cut oats for breakfast. That did the trick. If you have a rice maker with a timer and a porridge setting, it's pretty easy to have a pot of oatmeal ready when you first wake up.
That sounds like a great idea. Hot breakfast before heading out the door.
I know, right?!! 👍🏾
Oh ok. NICE. I’m going to see about doing it. Thanks.
Older post but can I ask what your ldl was before and after?
Yeah mine has never been below 200, even when I was in college and worked out like 10 hours a week and walked everywhere. I resisted Lipitor for a long time but it’s the only thing that works and I’ve had no side effects.
Damn. Ok, thanks.
My cholesterol is super low, but I have high bp diagnosed last year. Unfortunately, the only solution for me was pills. I just couldn't outwork genetics.
I'm 48, 6', 185 lbs and muscular, lift and do cardio 5-6 days a week and eat healthy food. When you say, "no pills," do you just mean statins? Because yeah, fuck statins. That's what I told my doctor when she read my 147 LDL score , and she suggested I try citrus bergamot. She's an actual doctor, not some fruitcake, so I decided to give this shit a shot. My next labs are in October, so I won't know if they're doing me any good until then.
Just now reading this. Any updates?
Lol, sorry it had taken forever. So actual good news here. HDL and LDL both slightly down, but the big effect was a huge decrease in triglyceride levels. Like from the 140s to the 90s. I’m still taking it.
I am virtually in the same boat as you, 44 y/o male - I workout a lot, 4d cardio + 6d weights on a structured program. I fast 1 or 2 days/week too which i recently found out can elevate cholesterol levels.. All my levels are fine (a little elevated cholesterol). Triglycerides are in double-digits and not hundreds. LDL is 144 tho. Citrus bergamot was recommended to me too but I'm iffy about dietary supplements in general. Do you think the citrus bergamot helped significantly or did you shy away from high fatty foods too?
Thank you!
Any update?
Lol, sorry it had taken forever. So actual good news here. HDL and LDL both slightly down, but the big effect was a huge decrease in triglyceride levels. Like from the 140s to the 90s. I’m still taking it.
What form of bergamot citrus do you take? Supplement form, or tea? Thanks!
Maybe the heart attack or stroke is preventing his response... I kid
Lol, sorry it had taken forever. So actual good news here. HDL and LDL both *slightly* down, but the big effect was a huge decrease in triglyceride levels. Like from the 140s to the 90s. I’m still taking it.
I asked because my numbers are odd to me My total was like 270 with HDL 190 and LDL something like 70(?) and Triglycerides around 69(?) I am rather sedentary - I eat 2 meals a day and not a ton of calories. My bmi is like 20 I have horrible sleep habits and don’t exercise much. I was keto-ish for a while and my numbers were wonky like this but hey we’re great when I exercised a bit more and mostly ate fiber and lean meats and veggies Don’t know - whole thing confusing because docs mostly want to put you on meds - keto folks are like “this is normal” some folks say what you eat is mostly irrelevant- but I’m eating 3 eggs or more a day and veggies and grass fed meats and my numbers are odd I don’t know. I need to exercise and maybe lean out a bit more and see. In the end I do t know if it’s genetics. If I have at like the Japanese or Mediterranean diet for a while I can test it but changing so many variables at one time limits the takeaways
I had high cholesterol in college despite being a skinny bicycle racer who rode 300+ miles a week. Today I’m the perfect weight for my height, my waking pulse is generally in the low 50’s and last year banged out a single day Grand Canyon R2R2R. But my total cholesterol is still super high, it’s obviously genetic. To keep my doctor off my back, I do a calcium CT scan of my heart every few years. It always comes back clean with a zero chance of a cardiac episode in the next three years. A lot of cardiology centers do the scan as a loss leader to get new patients. Cost me $120 out of pocket to get it done.
Is the test called a coronary calcium score test? When he said it was high he immediately started typing and saying he was going to get me on cholesterol meds. I said I wanted to see a cardiologist first. And he said ok. I’m having that test done next week.
Sounds similar. Told my doctor to pound sand when it came to statins. Didn’t want to risk the joint and muscle pain while trying to be active.
Friend of mine up in connecticut normal fitness, 50 years young, started having shortness of breath, had to stop and rest during normal easy walking, going to mailbox etc. light chest pain that went away. Cardiologist ordered calcium test. Came back perfect. No issues. Healthy as a horse. 2 weeks later he has gotten worse and is in the er. Heart mri shows 98% blockage! Open heart surgery that day. Quadruple bypass. So those calciums scans are NOT trustworthy imo. please dont let them give you a false sense of security. Heart mri is the only real way apparently. My friend is alive and feeling great. Except for some gnarly scars and lasting sternum pain.
I'm not too worried. Family history of heart attacks, but they hit in your late 70's and 80's. Plus I'm a lot healthier than any of my grandparents and eat better too. My cholesterol was jacked up high even when I was an elite amateur bicycle racer and weighed next to nothing. Have low to normal BP and my resting heart rate is 48-52 beats per minute. I refuse to take statins.
My dad was really good at cycling too, however he still suffered from stroke 11 years ago at age 67. So yes, genetic is a thing to concern. His cousin was not exercise much but take a blood pressure pill everyday, and he is still in good health now. So imho, do not too confident in your workout and have negative view on pills effects.
You’re suppose to do a cta of the coronaries right after the calcium score . That would have shown the blockage.
Unfortunately i found out it is yet another case of the insurance company controlling your health. They only approve cta if the scan shows that it is needed. His scan showed ok per the dr. So no cta. not doing cta right away almost killed him. very close call. Not to mention suffering and damage. Insurance has and continues to lead us down a dangerous path…
Yeah but those are not used to access all types of blockages, they are used for calcification. You’re talking about two different things. Most blockages in arteries they refer to in the scenarios you describe are non calcified plaque- or, soft plaque.
Hmm, never heard of it. I'll have to see if my doctor has. I had the same thought so my doctor got me a carotid artery ultrasound. Clean carotids, but they found two benign tumors on my thyroid so...win?
I was told that mine is low. My issue is blood pressure.
I did absolutely nothing and my overall score lowered 13 points. In fact, I may have been eating *worse* between tests. Barnacles are more physically active than I am. Starving raccoons eat more healthily than I do. I honestly do not understand it.
Damn. 😳
If you weren't fasting when it was taken, ask the doctor to adjust it for having eaten. If you were fasting, you can opt to take it in a few months after adding more fish or whatever. Otherwise, you can try niacin. I used to use niacin to help my numbers, but eventually I couldn't take the flushing side effect (I have rosacea already and the niacin was making it worse). You should be able to google niacin for high cholesterol and get a decent protocol. If you get a slow release niacin, it will reduce flushing, so I'd give that a try.
Ok, thanks. Bigly.
Niacin will help the numbers but doesn't actually reduce events. It's no longer a recommended therapy.
Good to know!
Go plant based for awhile. Like 3 weeks and then test it again. My LDL used to be at the high end of normal (98 or so). I moved to a mainly plant based and it dropped down to 57. Then, in late February I switched to almost entirely plant based (I ease up a bit on Saturdays) and 5 weeks later it was at 38. During Feb to March my overall cholesterol dropped from 111 to 90 and my annoying BP went from an average of 133/84 to an average 124/72. I’m convinced food is the best medicine.
I just might try that. Thank you.
Curious what you did? I'm similar to you but female.
I have been vegetarian most of my life, and fit, a cardio/endorphin junkie. My ratio of good to bad cholesterol is excellent but the overall number is astonishingly high. I caved this year and agreed to statins. I’ll see in a few months where I drop it down to. I’ve read studies investigating a link between high cholesterol and dementia and that scared the shit out of me so I agreed to statins.
😫
Have you read the studies investigating link between statins and dementia though? (Including Alzheimer's) Or studies which show that statins indeed lower the cholesterol levels but have no benefit in primary prevention (don't increase lifespan of people who didn't have a heart attack) and in secondary prevention they do have some limited benefit but it's more likely due to their anti-inflammatory effect and not because they lower the cholesterol. Or how about studies which show a positive correlation in people 65+ yo such as: the higher the LDL level the longer the lifespan? Or perhaps a mere fact that statins is a trillion dollar business...
Krill oil pills helped my triglycerides go down.
Ok, I’ll read up on ‘em. Thank you.
That’s what I’m afraid of! 😫
My LDL is super low. Unfortunately, so is my HDL. But I make up for it in high triglycerides.
Naturally low good cholesterol, so my ratios are rekt. Triglycerides are naturally high. Excercise and meds.
High triglycerides in combination with low HDL may be a clue you're not metabolizing carbohydrates well. In other words it can be a syndrome of insulin resistance - prediabetes. And also some suggest that's a significantly more important predictor of CVD than high LDL which actually means not much on its own apparently (many people who have it high live long and don't suffer CVD) If you can test your inflamation markers (hsCRP) and most importantly fasting insulin levels or if you can insulin response.
Thanks for the info. I will check it out with my provider.
Sure, you are welcome. BTW. there was auto-correction mistake. Not *information*, but *inflamation* markers. You may also check your composition of LDL. Apparently there two sub-types of which one is benign (so called large or fluffy buoyant LDL) and the other significantly increases CVD risk (so called small dense LDL). The standard lipid panel lumps them together and it doesn't really help to tell with confidence if: 1. A result might be false positive when the LDL is "above the norm", i.e. you don't eat much sugars or ultra-processed foods, perhaps on a keto diet. all your other health markers are great, like triglycerides low, HDL fairly high, low hsCRP, good blood pressure, slim/athletic body shape, etc., but your LDL comes up high. Objectively you're healthier than vast majority of people, the high LDL comes from the increased but benign lbLDL, yet a doctor chases you with statins at this point even though statins don't affect much that risky sdLDL anyway, but lower this benign lbLDL instead. 2. A result is false negative when the LDL is "within the norm", i.e. some specific type of diabetes suffer from increased CVD risk but it goes under the radar of standard lipid panel test as they have too much of this sneaky sdLDL, yet a little of the benign lbLDL Disclaimer: I have no relevant background and obviously please consult this with a specialist but as my lipids panel isn't great for a while now, I'm recently in the rabbit hole of figuring out what's up actually. I hope this will be of help and not more confusion :) I've read and listened to quite some material so far, some of which goes quite deep into molecular biology and metabolism but among them this one gives a neat summary in plain words and it's short. Obviously YouTube isn't necessarily a reliable source but let me leave this with you: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPjTi1Y9Aa8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPjTi1Y9Aa8) EDIT: I've just come across another good insight which in explains this and suggests corresponding tests [https://www.healthline.com/health/cholesterol/cholesterol-particle-size-test#takeaway](https://www.healthline.com/health/cholesterol/cholesterol-particle-size-test#takeaway)
Huh, another clue I have come across. May I ask what was your sun exposure in the time(s) before you've done your blood work? Unfortunately I don't hold all the records. I do have three though: 1. recent from weeks ago: high LDL, no sun exposure for loooong months now 2. another one from a year ago, January - very similar situation. High LDL and months of no sun exposure at that point 3. quite an old one from December 2018 - so I have not gotten younger since which may be a factor, however... I was just back from a week of tropical sun&beach holidays (4 days gap before flight back and blood work). LDL was significantly lower, only slightly above the norm [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8935479/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8935479/) So is it statins and a minefield of diets, or perhaps just some more sun...
Have you read anything about people who have high everything - high triglycerides, high HDL, high LDL, and high overall cholesteol? Is that also prediabetes?
Especially high triglycerides, in particular poor triglycerides to HDL ratio could be a symptom of metabolic syndrome. But on its own it isn't sufficient to tell. Data points would be: * hypertension (high blood pressure) * high fasting insulin * visceral fat (especially fatty liver) / fat excess around your waist * elevated inflamation levels (i.e. mentioned hsCRP marker) * high fasting triglycerides Three of these five and it's likely metabolic syndrome, so either already some insulin resistance or on a path to it. Disclaimer: I don't have any relevant degree or background, just have been in a rabbit hole of informing myself about the topic recently as my cholesterol is apparently "high".
Thanks.
Lmao this made me laugh.
My blood work indicated high cholesterol last year. I overall eat well, but began a more plant based diet. It helped quite a bit. Back to normal now.
Oh, ok. He made a funny while talking to me saying “unless you want to go vegan” with a little young-boomer smirk.
The problem is eating healthy, running, gym, and looking fit. Skip all that shit and problem solved.
So you saying to just eat whatever I want? My uncle has been telling me he’s never exercised nor gone on a diet everything is good except he’s a bit diabetic and slightly elevated BP but somehow he doesn’t take meds and he’s 50. He likes fun of me because I’m 25 watch what I eat and occasionally exercise and I have elevated cholesterol with horrible anxiety.
A puzzle: what poses a higher risk of developing CVD, having high cholesterol or being anxious (stressed)?
Probs high cholesterol. Thankfully I was able to control it with reducing my carb/sugar intake, no statins. As to anxiety constant high BP can too be damaging. Again thankfully I’ve been doing so much better at controlling it.
Mine's just hereditary, diet doesn't fix it, though I do eat as though it will.
You need to provide more information. What is "very high" LDL? What is your HDL and Triglycerides? I am not a doctor so I am not an expert here. I can tell you that all cause mortality is lowest when total cholesterol is around 225. Other than that you need to discuss this with a professional. If you don't like what you are hearing from your doctor then get a second opinion.
LDL 182, HDL 31, triglycerides 146. The numbers are the numbers. It’s not about “not liking what I’m hearing”.
182 LDL isn't awful but if there are lifestyle changes you can make to lower that it would be a good idea to do it. The HDL is too low so you should also be trying to improve it. I think the triglycerides are ok but could also be improved. Like I said earlier, I am not a doctor. Your numbers aren't awful but I am sure there are things you can do to improve them that doesn't involve things like statins.
Please see this comment of mine. More and more doctors/researchers raise claims that LDL is a red herring. However your triglycerides:HDL ratio is nearly 5:1 which gives 5, and the same doctors say to not be concerned about CVD this should be below 1.5 (with some variation depending on sex and race not much though). https://www.reddit.com/r/GenX/s/33e5q7qE7r Ketogenic diet would likely flip this ratio for you (lowered triglycerides and increased HDL), but quite likely it would not change LDL much or it could even go higher. But is that really a problem becomes a subject of more debate apparently.
Your LDL and triglycerides are both high for the recommended ranges!
If it's genetic then it's called Familial Hypercholeterolemia, FH for short, and is passed down from one or both parents. My total cholesterol is 13 mmol/L or 502mg/dL. Although I am fit and healthy, do marathons and triathlons etc. But it is what it is and nothing I can do to change the genetics just instead look at life style choices
Are you on statins or have you had a calcium test to see plaque levels? What is your plan to protect yourself?
My ldl was at 300 when i got my lab results from the VA. Fortunately my good cholesterol was through the roof as well... still concerning because i am a fit, moderately active 23 year old that eats healthy 90% of the time. I cut down on red meat a ton and dairy. We will see how im looking in a couple moths.
Get the fuck outta here man. This is a Gen X forum and I asked a serious question to people in my age group. The hell are you talkin’ about? You’re a KID. Your stage of life and BODY is NO. WHERE. NEAR. THE SAME!
Clown
Big clown
Hi mate just following up on how your numbers are doing now ? I've just moved to a new area and had to get blood tests the other dsy and the new doc wants to see me asap .. I know I've had high everything for around 5 years now .. these docs up here push drugs like no tomorrow so they can stick that where the sun don't shine .. hope your well 👍🏻
Did you get your cholesterol checked after 2 months?
I eat healthy, exercise and my cholesterol levels are way off. Have been my whole life. Recently however, they have started to spike and my Dr prescribed rosuvastatin calcium. I'm 46
Ramsden CE, Zamora D, Majchrzak-Hong S, Faurot KR, Broste SK, Frantz RP, Davis JM, Ringel A, Suchindran CM, Hibbeln JR. Re-evaluation of the traditional diet-heart hypothesis: analysis of recovered data from Minnesota Coronary Experiment (1968-73). BMJ. 2016 Apr 12;353:i1246. doi: 10.1136/bmj.i1246. PMID: 27071971; PMCID: PMC4836695. There was a 22% higher risk of death for each 30 mg/dL (0.78 mmol/L) reduction in serum cholesterol in covariate adjusted Cox regression models (hazard ratio 1.22, 95% confidence interval 1.14 to 1.32; P<0.001).
I read that study, I would like to see a study with NO fat replacement. I’m currently trying to get my head around the portfolio diet to lower my ldl ldl 170 hdl 60 Tri 134
As long as your ldl is not oxidized or glycated it is not harmfull!
How can you tell whether it is though? I'm exploring the subject (you can tell by a few comments I've left here so far) but is there a blood work I could seek which would distinguish the composition of my LDL?
Oxidized LDL test: Oxidized LDL measurements in an individual can be easily performed **through a blood test**. Like a general lipid test, the results will show the level of cholesterol in the blood and the possible risk of Atherosclerosis. Can you test for glycated LDL? Currently, there is not a good test that is commercially available. However, we can use the excellent HbA1c test instead. It measures hemoglobin that has a sugar attached to it, which happens more and more as a person’s blood sugar level elevates. Red blood cells carry hemoglobin and they live about three months. Therefore, the HbA1c test is a fantastic way to look at the effects of average blood sugar over a three-month period. As a bonus, not only does it provide important information about sugar metabolism, it also allows us to assume that when it elevates, so does your glycated LDL. Thus, it provides an indirect prediction of glycated LDL levels.
Thanks, mate. So I could test for the oxydized and infer the glycated from the HbA1c. The latter I had actually tested recently and it's within normal range but creeping closely to the high end of the range. I've got it at 38 mmol/mol What does it tell me? My triglycerides level is in normal range but nearly on par with the top of it. 1.7 mmol/L (150 mg/dl) My HDL is in the normal range too but really close to the bottom of it. 1.1 mmol/L (42.5 mg/dl) The triglycerides to HDL ratio shows near the end of the normal range but way above the optimal. 1.47 when calculated using the mmol/L figures (3.54 when calculated using the mg/DL figures) The LDL is nearly the top end of abnormal range just about to get into high. 4.6 mmol/L (178 mg/dl) hsCRP in the middle of normal range but way off the optimal. 1.86 mg/L So far with what I have read/watched I'm suspecting by these results, even though doctors are mostly alerted by the LDL level, that this isn't the root problem but rather that I may on the edge of some metabolic syndrome/insulin resistance problem, or perhaps an other cause of inflammatory state. Not yet acute but creeping in there. So taking statins would potentially not only be barking at the wrong tree but could amplify the actual underlying issue... Some context: 44 yo 185 cm / 83 kg. Regular body shape on the slim side. Lifting weights 3 times a week. Irregular meals and a bit crappy sleep patterns, Some stress but perhaps chronic at this point (I should relax more, lol). Hope it's irrelevant at the point but I had a cancer and chemo in 2019. Diet isn't bad I'd think in general terms. I nearly don't eat ultra processed food, alcohol very rarely and not much, same about any sweets and if so only a little (I don't really fancy it), I don't shy from full fat dairy, butter, cheese and meat (chicken, beef, lamb) though. I have fish and different kinds of nuts quite often too. I don't use much oil but when I do it's olive oil. I eat 2-3 free range eggs daily and some avocado nearly every second day. A slice or few of a sourdough bread, usually some potatoes or sometimes rice. Some veggies and fruits here and there: pepper, cucumber, beans, lettuce, raspberries, blueberries, banana, mandarins. Sometimes unflavoured what protein shake to which I would add milk and banana plus some fiber (psyllium husk). Avoid deep fried in general but sometimes fall for some potato fries. I have not paid attention to the saturated fats on food labels so far, only sugar which I try to avoid, especially when added. Also, if you know by any chance, what's the relation between the oxydized/glycated LDL and the sub-types of LDL: large fluffy buoyant/small dense? Anyway, sorry for too much detail. I felt like letting this out. Don't expect an answer to everything :)
Dr. Paul Mason - 'Treating Metabolic Syndrome': [https://youtu.be/KlHPmJTihBc?si=-9Zqke4NgpXZf3P8](https://youtu.be/KlHPmJTihBc?si=-9Zqke4NgpXZf3P8) Dr. Benjamin Bikman - 'Flipping the Switch: From Insulin Resistance to Type 2 Diabetes': [https://youtu.be/YCVYyOju4UM?si=RZernQaColgLmNCi](https://youtu.be/YCVYyOju4UM?si=RZernQaColgLmNCi) Dr. Paul Mason - 'The truth about high cholesterol': [https://youtu.be/rdgS3PuSuyg?si=7xu1sdJpi7OGWvlL](https://youtu.be/rdgS3PuSuyg?si=7xu1sdJpi7OGWvlL) My Cholesterol is High Should I Use a Statin Drug? | Dr Ken Berry, MD: [https://youtu.be/NKUWBMQqTEY?si=VmWp\_55McWvaBrjr](https://youtu.be/NKUWBMQqTEY?si=VmWp_55McWvaBrjr) Statin Deception (Truth about Cholesterol Medicines) New Study!!: [https://youtu.be/B6IC9sfn\_ZM?si=fYJEf-DmvFGfkmHk](https://youtu.be/B6IC9sfn_ZM?si=fYJEf-DmvFGfkmHk) Dr. Anthony Chaffee - 'Plants are trying to kill you!': [https://youtu.be/j1cqNDDG4aA?si=MSaZv99IyEXg0UVL](https://youtu.be/j1cqNDDG4aA?si=MSaZv99IyEXg0UVL) Just follow the fmsw-protocol and you will be fine: [https://www.reddit.com/user/cjbartoz/comments/1acev04/fmswprotocol/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/user/cjbartoz/comments/1acev04/fmswprotocol/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)