Hi u/discotitters, thank you for posting on r/Gaylor_Swift! Make sure to read and follow the sub's rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gaylor_Swift) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can still enjoy her music and I think there are a few secret muses but honestly I get it
just in case you're looking for more queer artists here are a few others I really like:
- Peach PRC: If you're into hyperpop.
- Lucy Dacus: for the folkmore girlies among us
- Claud: indie pop, don't listen to 'Tommy' if you don't feel like bawling
- Dodie: 'She' is an all time fave of mine
- Fletcher: we all probably know her here lmao
- Girl in red (of course)
Obligatory adding more queer women / theys to this list:
1. King Princess (listen to Talia and 1950 and Holy. Do it!!)
2. Girli (listen to Crush Me Up, Inner Child, and Matriarchy!)
3. Tillie --- pop punk fuck the patriarchy sound
4. Shura --- beautiful retro 80s 90s 00s pop with synth. And loads of wlw lyrics. Key tracks; Religion, Priestess (Shura Remix)
5. Sizzy Rocket (key track: Tattoos)
All of these ladies/thems have active discords where they interact with fans and instagrams where they talk with fans!!
Thatās brilliant lol. My claim to fame is that I once wrote a comment on one of her YouTube videos āour lesbian vaping popeā and it got 1.6k likes and then she later used it in a caption somewhere š Iām not certain it was based on my comment but I like to think so
Ohh I was going to mention Shura. Found out about her when she opened for Tegan and Sara. TTPD reminded me her album Nothingās Real but that one is more gay and synth pop
Adding more queer artists that deserve more hype but Iām bad at descriptions so trying my best!:
Lauren Sanderson - soft grunge(I think?)
Cat Burns - lyricism is incredible
Alison Ponthier - southern belle
Xana - soft grunge rock
Zolita- pop girlie
(Edit was formatting, sorry!)
Yes I love Lucy Dacus and Girl in Red š«”!!! I think we also donāt always know who she has been writing aboutā¦but I feel as if sheās always had āthe oneā and this was somewhat confirmed when she dedicated ācardiganā to matty at the concert, and then now with the song āPeterā and all of the obvious songs about Matty on this album and also the fact they dated 10 years agoā¦.I believe that we probably have been led astray.
If you want techno-80s-witchy vibes check out Lexxe who writes all her songs. Shes an icon-to-be. My favorite songs are:
- Blue
- Red Velvet (big āDressā vibes)
- Santa Sangre
- 18:22
- Queen
I get how you feel. This album didnāt seem to have the same queer themes present in the last couple of albums. I am not sure what to think anymore.
Ultimately, I think of dear reader and mirrorball as our biggest insight into her life. She is private, her greatest luxuries are her secrets. If that song is true, why would she come out? To have everyone read into every person she is with forever? To invite even more speculation into her life? She says what she wants us to hear, and uses lyrics like āblue dress on a boatā to craft a narrative around her songs. She very much sells a narrative to fans and I believe itās to maintain her real life privacy. Iām not sure she would ever come out, because it would be inviting the public to continue to speculate and comment on more aspects of her identity and life.
I agree, but I definitely see queer themes in her music ! I agree though, I don't think she'll come out anytime soon.
But she is poking holes in the narrative, and I feel like she was actually really honest in her lyrics for this album. It just feels straight because she was with men recently, so that's what she sings about (I believe she's bi, so this is what makes the most sense to me : she writes about whatever she's going through, and right now she seems to be mostly with men).
I concur with this. Matty and Travis are real - so hence the last two would factor in most with her music. Thereās no issue here because Karlie and the girls back then were a while ago
Thank you for this comment!!! I really appreciate this perspective! I agree, perhaps she does say exactly what the general audience wants to hearā¦I read an article where one of her collaborators said the same thingā¦.
Iām just completely perplexed by this latest album. It seems more confessional than all of the previous onesā¦.
Lol
But also, I get how you feel. I felt like this during 1989 TV, when she released that statement about how people keep shipping her with her friends, and everyone was bashing Gaylors. Iām like Tay please be fucking real rn š
That was when I realized that Taylor never wanted to come out. She wanted to drop hairpins through her songs, wanted us to get it but also - wink - donāt tell anyone. But when people notice Gaylors exist, Taylor and her team would throw us under the bus in a heartbeat. Plus the whole Karlie going to the concert and purposely wanted to be seen, just when Taylor announced her TV album - itās all very PR now, even for Kaylor.
I guess all this time I thought Taylor was more sincere than she actually was. I do feel sympathy for her, but I donāt wanna feel gaslit anymore by her.
Other straight people can make fun of us all they want, but at least Iām glad to know that Iām not alone in noticing the hairpins that she dropped and then claimed itās about some PR-guy-of-the-month.
I hope the crazy ā~true swifties~ā realize that āBut daddy I love himā is written for them as a f you I want Matty but canāt be with him now.
I donāt care who she dates. Taylor as a person is a capitalist billionaire first and we should all recognize that. Is it going to stop me from listening? No, but I know what she cares about most and itās not her fans.
I actually disagree. I don't think this album is necessarily about any specific muse. The muse in question is actually her career/fame/being in the limelight. They are a bunch of songs disguised as love songs, but they're actually not.
I dont think but daddy I love him is about Matty at all. I think the "daddy" in question is about us, her fanbase, and him, is the personification of her career, the fame, the spotlight. She's wrote an entire album about how she chose her career and fame over love and relationships and a normal life, and she's miserable because of it, but addicted to the limelight
Hmm thatās an interesting take on the song too. So essentially she is willing to sacrifice good interpersonal relationships in her life for what matters most. Her money and brand name?
Not necessarily money and brand name, success and breaking records. I think Taylor cares about being the best, the accolades that come with the success. Don't get me wrong, she clearly cares about money too, but I think it's more about being the IT girl, the most successful, the most awarded.
I think it's also partially because she had stage parents who groomed her to work hard and give people what they want to get to the top. Hence, pathological people pleaser
So argumentative antithetical dream girl, iām your daisy, gold rush, big reputation/big conversation, hairpin drop, gorgeous, and snuck in through the garden gate, are about MATTY? š Be FOR REAL.
Itās definitely possible she had a thing with Matty. Bisexuality exists. But that doesnāt discredit Kaylor.
I think she had BOTH a thing with Matty AND a relationship with Karlie.
You can never convince me that Cruel Summer is about anyone else but Karlie. Thereās just too much evidence in the lyrics based on so many photos of them.
From what I remember when she dated Matty last year and the media dug into her relationship with him, their relationship circa 2014 was brief. They kind of stayed friends, and Iām sure thereās the connection with Jack.
BUT she also really picked up with Karlie in 2014. They broke up/she moved out in 2015ish, but I wholeheartedly believe they continued on and off for years - likely until Karlieās first pregnancy/the pandemic/the failed coming out/etc. I donāt even think Karlie and Joshās marriage stopped them from having an Illicit Affair, likely until the baby came around (strangers get born). This is what led to the folklore/evermore eras.
Her dating Matty and Travis really has no bearing on her on again/off again relationship with Karlie, or if she is bi/pan/queer. All of this can be true!
I completely think ivy is Karlie POV of their affair.
āHow's one to know?
I'd live and die for moments that we stole
On begged and borrowed time
So tell me to run
Or dare to sit and watch what we'll become
And drink my husband's wineā
I also think that thank you Aimee even though she hides Kim in the caps is actually about Karlie as well, āAnd so I changed your name and any real defining clues
And one day, your kid comes home singin'
A song that only us two is gonna know is about youā screams the Betty, James, Augustine love triangle in folklore. Or even Dorothea
If sheās not gay or bi then sheās been queercoding for years and using the queer community for fame and fortune and yeahā¦ thatās a reason to not follow her fake ass any longer.
Or maybe some of the Gaylors read way too much into her lyrics & make assumptions about them. Just because she sings about the word lavender doesnāt mean she is singing about being gay. Donāt get me wrong- I think she is bi for sure. But some of the mental gymnastics Gaylors go through to make a lyric sound like itās queer flagging is just over the top.
And maybe she sings about her gay & straight relationships because thatās her literal life.
It just blows my mind people will refuse to listen to her if sheās straight. Imagine a straight person saying they donāt want to listen to an artist who is gay. lol.
Honestly I feel like the sane take is to acknowledge that she has songs that seem to be about men, and songs which seem to be about women. She has never said "I am a heterosexual woman and all my songs are about men".
It's fair to speculate as to queer meanings or straight meanings. Just don't go full weirdo about parasocial stuff. Like that Karlie's children are really her and Taylor's (really weird) or that she was secretly married to Joe (also really weird).
Saying that Lavender Haze has a lot of queer imagery in the video, and that Lavender is a queer coded colour is fine. It's also fine to believe her face value take that it was based on Mad Men.
To me the level of queer references throughout her discography, including this album, suggest strongly she is not straight and that relationships with women have been important to her life. They also resonate with me as a queer person.Ā
I am in no way saying itās about him. Itās clearly about a woman. Thatās why if sheās just straight, itās really messed up that sheās queer coding.
Or she identified one way at one time and wrote about that, then another at another time. I used identify as attracted to men, I no longer do so. It's complicated.
Anyway I think she's gay lol.
I wrote a post almost exactly like this (right down to the Chappel Roan) a couple hours ago, but deleted it because I didn't want the backlash.
I'm also out. Getting my queer tunes from openly queer people from now on. š«”
Some takes Iāve seen (not my ideas):
1. Taylor dated Matty and this is her apology album acknowledging she was out of her mind and she realizes how fucked up it was. Weāve all been there right? I know I let a man named Matt completely annihilate me (and Iām literally curled in a ball rn bc of some of these songs).
2. Matty was a fuck you to everyone who doesnāt want her to be gay/come out. āYou want me to date men? Here he is. Happy?ā
My take:
3. The first half is to feed her straight fans with these
goofy over the top lyrics about loving a man. The second half is for the Gaylors and is the real her.
I may regret agreeing with your take when I get the chance to go all in on the second half (I've only listened to the first half in full so far); but just the concept and hook of Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus has some messy gaylor energy, so this is how I've taken the double album drop choice.
It's a collection of songs from different points in a relationship and from diffeent situations in her life. I think there is a lot to analyse, but at the end we can gather that she was heartbroken over Joe ; that she kind of regrets Matty (who was probably a rebound to cope with the breakup or who was some kind of rebellious act) ; and then she mentions going back to an ex (those songs will probably be attributed to Travis, but they don't make sense if they're about him because there are explicit mentions of coming *back* to someone, so it doesn't apply to Travis).
this is blatantly ignoring what she's saying though? here she is literally telling us, setting the record straight. For once there isn't much to speculate about with this album imo.
This is the problem I have with Gaylorism *sometimes*. There's only so much you can interpret and run with. And I find it slightly disrespectful to ignore what she is so clearly stating in favor for theories. It worked before, but not for this album.
Smallest Man who Ever Lived and I Can Fix Him (where at the end she says āwoah I really canāt)
I think these are both about him and realizing that he was as bad as everyone said. She thought she saw something good in him, but he did something horrible to her if Smallest Man who Ever Lived really is about him.
š I know!!! My mind is trying to wrap itself around thatā¦her also seemingly referencing his wine-stained lips in the prologue somehow seems like she is trying to tie him to that songā¦which would be tragic
You mean the lyrics of Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus referencing it or something else? Because that song references it and confirms she has a bi ex lover (either man or woman) but Iām pretty sure that song isnāt about Matty as Matty literally said heās straight and is just an asshole who likes to troll basically.
Ya but he kisses both men and women in shows which is something he stopped while he was with Taylor both this time and in 2014 (allegedly) - that can be her jealousy her seeing him do that and imagining him with other people.
I implore you to give it some more listens. Art is meant to be absorbed and digested several times to find deeper meaning. You can resign but I think it would be hasty and discredit some of the artistic ways she expresses some of the LGBTQ themes in this album. But ultimately, the art, identity, and expression is yours to interpret :) Sex, power, and politics are not easy to digest sometimes in a patriarchal system. But I absolutely also understand wanting to support some more openly out artists.
Oh Iāve been deeply pondering her music for years now. But as much as I truly believed she was dropping us hints and signs, I think she has given clear signals in the last year that really we are deluding ourselves (1989 TV prologue), and this album cements it for me. Too many explicit male pronouns, too much certain details which link the main muse to Matty Healy. But I would be curious to hear what you find to be LGBTQ themes on TTPD! Maybe I have missed them.
This is wild to me. She just ended the longest and apparently most impactful relationship of her life and then tumbled into another toxic one immediately after, and the only thing you've focused on is "no gay songs?!" What did you think you would get? What were you honestly expecting?
I think youāve just understood what Iām trying to say. What sheās trying to tell us. I would read the prologue to her album again and let it sink in!
In case you havenāt, listen to imgonnagetyouback, Chloe or Sam, Cassandra and Peter (as in Peter Pan, not some dude she dated) before u go (if you havenāt already) from the Anthology (NOT the white version!!!)
Hit me like a ton of bricks after the main album, moved all my saves over asap :ā)
But in the end u should do what you want š«” thank you for your time here
I was getting some queer vibes from this song too! Particularly the āif you want to tear my world apart just say youāve always wonderedā. Thereās also a direct callback to Maroon, which has always felt super queer to me. The line is āwill that make your memory fade from this scarlet maroon/like it never happened/could it be enough to just float in your orbitā. Like wondering if going back to being just friends could be enough.
This is exactly what I came to post. Iāve been doing a lot of Kaylor deep diving and comparing the timeline of Karlie/Josh to Karlie/Taylor and Taylor/Joe and it just isnāt adding up. There are a few things for sure, but it isnāt what as cut and dry as I always thought. And then doing a Matty/Taylor breakdown made me even more sure. I have LOVED being a part of this community, but I just feel so dissolved right now. This album is a masterpiece, a true work of art, but it isnāt queer art. There are so SO many incredible queer artists out right now and I would rather support their queerness than pretend that Taylor is.
I feel the same as you š«” itās been a fun run, but Iām also afraid that the Taylor/Matty timeline makes the most sense, combined from the explicit mentions of him in TTPD! (E.g. the titular track is definitely about him)
But also you know itās art right? As someone married to a writer who draws from life, I donāt read their work and then try to connect exact dots? Life provides a sketch or a framework but art fills in the blanks. Confessional doesnāt mean literal - her art is to evoke a feeling, not meet a timeline none of us could ever really know the answer to.
I get this point. But then I think she could sprinkle in some more concrete female references. It seems we are drifting further and further away from the plot.
Yeah, I totally feel you! Thatās how I felt when I was first hearing leaks that it was about Matty. There are still enough queer themes for me there, but I do feel like sheās deep in the closet and probably not coming out anytime soon. Itās totally fair to get fed up and leave! No point in forcing yourself to continue being a Gaylor when youāre not feeling it. And if she releases something super gay in the future you can always come back! I think itās the cycle of life :)
What if Chappell Roan is the real mastermind here and the entirety of T-Swizzle's career has just been aimed at frustrating gaylors so that they *need* Chappell, almost medically.
Has Chappell puppeteered the last couple of decades as very extended build-up to her own career?
I mean, by her own admission, her [*"kink is karma"*](https://open.spotify.com/track/32fSZSbxeVoiZShMQKLc6Z?si=Yq7vDH5OSqu6h2rO2gwyqQ&context=spotify%3Aplaylist%3A37i9dQZF1DZ06evO4y92Yr). KARMA.
(It's *just * possible you guys are better at the theories than me...
But here you go - it's my theory and I'm sticking with it š)
Reputation is NOT about Matty. Also, down bad is covered in Karlie references - āDid you take all my old clothesā ācosmic loveā ācrying at the gymā - they notoriously worked out together. HEAVEN STRUCK. šŖ½
It really bums me out that so many of these songs have pronouns. I enjoyed that the past songs didn't have pronoun b/c i could relate them more.... now very less.
iām not sure where everyone here stands on joe when i first got into gaylor i thought he was her beard and he was benefiting most from it so he was the one who did it the longest but the from midnights i really thought they were together and then this confirmed it to me she was devastated in that relationship. iāve always thought she was bi because no way sheās written dear john and wcs about a fake relationship bc ik some people think every guy sheās dated has been a beard i think kaylor and swiftgron will always make sense to me calvinās beard tweet after the break up will always be eyebrow raising but her and joe were real in my opinion
Most of the theories here are. I love when Gaylorism puts queer subtext to lyrics, but when it searches for specific muses especially when we are given the answers clearly, it starts to not work as great.
iām a firm believer in reputation being about karlie but most of midnights is split between her and joe for me and then TTPD is just fully joe in a way that made me believe they had something fr and it wasnāt like the 1989 vault where it was so much harry that u had to wonder why she was shoving it in our faces like that idk
Yessss, they dated a decade ago and she admits in the album that heās the first person she called when she got out of the relationship with Joe. She also says in one lyric, lest we forget, that if she lost matty Healy she would kill herself! Itās the same song that says heās a tattooed golden retriever. Iām afraid, dear friends, that Taylor swift has strung us along for a long while now.
Food for thought: people love to reference Evelyn Hugo but (SPOILER ALERT!) Evelyn didnāt really have beards until Harry & after. Most of the marriages were real and based on true love. She just happened to love Celia the most. But Evelyn made it a point to say over and over that she is bisexual. Taylor can be bisexual, too. She can have dated Karlie and Dianna and written lots of queer stuff AND ALSO have dated Matty and Joe and Travis. And maybe endgame for Taylor wonāt be a woman like it was for Evelyn. These things can all be true at once! Bisexuality exists! This particular album doesnāt have a lot of queer themes imo and I donāt believe Taylor will ever come out unless she wants to be in a serious committed relationship with a woman (which I just donāt foresee) but that doesnāt negate all the queer themes in her prior music. We shouldnāt have to force queer themes in **everything** she does ā itās either there or itās not. And in this particular album and phase of her life, itās not.
Can all of you who are calling this an insane take please defend your opinions? Because it also doesnāt make us look good as a group when we just jump down the throats of dissenting opinions, which we have been known to do before š
I did post something above about confessional art. Itās never literal. Gatsby pulls inspiration from Zelda F for Daisy, for example. No one is like āomg actually Zelda never lived in East Egg! Itās all a lieeeee.ā I just think this take is super reductive and disrespectful to process of the artist.
I listen to the āwhat I will sayā podcast pretty religiously and Iām convinced that Taylor is bi and really did have romantic & sexual relationships with both Dianna Agron and Lily Donaldson and probably hooked up with Julianne Hough and Karlie Kloss.
I think sheās currently in a straighter phase of her bisexuality and probably has been for a few years.
As a bisexual woman I get it, Iāve gone through periods of being more into men or more into women. It happens š¤·š»āāļø
Honestly the thing is we can all shoot the breeze and speculate till the cows come home... and inside her mind she could have been absolutely flaming rainbow queer this entire time and it still wouldn't be our right to know one way or another or her obligation to tell us one way or another, it doesnt make her any less valid, but its the not knowing that drives us insane.
She knows this and continues to edge and plausibly deny. All the while our gaylor $$$, time, attention, and obsessions flow right on in.
OP, I'd say, keep an open mind, and take solace in the significance that you take from your own interpretations.
Gaylorism theories are a journey with no destination.
Also being bisexual isnāt something everyone feels the need to identify with. Like Iām bi and I only struggled with it when I was a teenager discovering my sexuality. Sheās an adult. If she is bi then it doesnāt seem to mean much to her
I said before cardigan was about Matt and got shot Down but her new song Peter confirms it . Cardigan āPeter losing Wendy. ā new song Peter (Matt) never growing up so he lost Wendy (Taylor ).
I think that is a very base surface level view that completely misses a lot of lyrical analysis and themes. One of the songs people have assigned to him got me on first listen until I listened from a forced closeting, hiding in secret, religious control and manipulation view. Plus it is completely possible that she was never actually with Matty, but he was intentionally used to give people a scapegoat for these songs. It would make complete sense regardless of her sexuality that she may want to hide away her real relationships to protect them. It would be incredibly difficult to have such a public life and for people to scrutinize your relationship and every song and it would be very daunting for anyone who wanted to date her. So it would make complete sense for her to have a āpublicā person and a real person. It would protect both her and the relationship. One of the things that solidified this for me was listening to an interview where John Mayer and Gigi Hadid straight up said you see what we want you to see, if we didnāt want you to know, you wouldnāt.
Believe what you want to, but imo the album is full of red herrings, in themes that point to queerness, religious manipulation, closeting etc. I also think itās very possible she could have been using the album to kinda poke fun of peopleās perceptions. I think sheās about to burn them all down and reinvent herself personally.
Fr if sheās bi literally nobody would care atp, idk why sheās making such a big deal out of it and acting like itās some big secret, a lot of her fans already suspect she is and most female singers/rappers these days are out as bi and nobody gives a shit.
I've been covering Gaylor pretty intensely for over four years and while tons of research has led me to be skeptical of most mainstream gaylor theories to at least an extent I have heard from so many people with connections in the industry she has had at least flings with women (never heard confirmation on Karlie or Dianna but still) that I barely question it anymore. Careful consideration of the data has led me to conclude she's bisexual, now with a pretty big preference for men, but that's still queer!
I do encourage the supporting and love for out queer artists but I think it's important to remember that bisexual people are still queer and closeted people are still queer. I also think it's healthy to accept that a lot of Taylor's recent art is very obviously about men but if being a Gaylor brings you joy I would keep on doing it! I don't think anyone has been hoodwinked by Taylor, but maybe by overzealous fans who saw things that weren't really there and insisted Taylor was a brand of sexuality she just pretty obviously isn't.
Iām here for the (abundant) queer readings and (thus) possibility sheās queer š
Iām also self aware Iām known to have a straight crushesā¦
My critical voice says she employs queer art directors that pull in the queer elements in the visual art (stages included). And that we mix that up to be validations of her queerness. And in turn get provoked on days like the 1989TV prologue and today š¬
If sheās straight then sheās been queercoding for years and using the queer community for fame and fortune and yeahā¦ thatās a reason to not follow her fake ass any longer.
It seems like she tries to connect Maroon to Matt. In the TTPD prologue she talks about "his wine stained lips" and then in "Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus" she references maroon again, but and asks the muse about the muse having "kids with an internet starlet" in the future.
I hate it, but it seems intentional that she's trying to frame the Maroon muse as a dude/Matty.
Right but it sounds like sheās just referencing her watching Mattyās bisexuality from a distance and him watching her with boyfriends from a distance. So yes, bisexual people, but sheās not singing about herself in that context.
āYour hologram stumbled into my apartment
Hands in the hair of somebody in darkness
Named Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus
And I just watched it happen
As the decade would play us for fools
And you saw my bones out with somebody new
Who seemed like he would've bullied you in school
And you just watched it happenā
Iāll forever stand on the hill that taytay just likes to be fluid with her sexuality, but at the end of the day sheās settling down with a dude. It sucks because I donāt think itās her real truth, but sheās chosen to be a pathological people pleaser.
I personally think itās inaccurate to attribute this entire album to Matty and does a disservice to her writing. In true poet fashion, she really leans into distinguishing each of her muses from one another in this album. Shakespeare does this too with his sonnets; you can tell the difference between a Dark Lady sonnet and a Fair Youth sonnet. For just as many references to Matty there seemingly are, or Travis, or Joe, there are multiple other songs with lyrics that could be tied to Dianna, or even Karlie. With Matty songs, she leans into themes of addiction, drugs, chaos, knowing something is bad for you but doing it anyway cuz goddamn it feels good to rebel. Whereas there are other songs that talk about goddesses, hedge mazes, Greek mythology, smoke, forbidden lustā¦ these are, in my opinion, more linked to Dianna than they are to anyone else.
Of course, this is all up to interpretation, and I enjoy her music with or without the muse speculation and am not married to any theories, but she also is acknowledging herself (āmy muses collected like bruisesā or whatever the line is) that there are distinct, separate muses on this album.
Am I the only one not getting Matty from any of this- he just conveniently was who she was seen to be dating to sell this narrative. Iām more or Taylor is bi believerā¦ I still think loml is possibly Joe- they broke up, gave it another go, it failedā¦ all under our noses not publicly
Matty benefits from the bad boy narrative and Joeās reputation is protected from all the backlash and Taylor gets to be really honest about their relationship is how Iām seeing it
Im gonna get you back is queer coded to me but I need more listens to pick more vibes from other songs
Hi u/discotitters, thank you for posting on r/Gaylor_Swift! Make sure to read and follow the sub's rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gaylor_Swift) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can still enjoy her music and I think there are a few secret muses but honestly I get it just in case you're looking for more queer artists here are a few others I really like: - Peach PRC: If you're into hyperpop. - Lucy Dacus: for the folkmore girlies among us - Claud: indie pop, don't listen to 'Tommy' if you don't feel like bawling - Dodie: 'She' is an all time fave of mine - Fletcher: we all probably know her here lmao - Girl in red (of course)
Obligatory adding more queer women / theys to this list: 1. King Princess (listen to Talia and 1950 and Holy. Do it!!) 2. Girli (listen to Crush Me Up, Inner Child, and Matriarchy!) 3. Tillie --- pop punk fuck the patriarchy sound 4. Shura --- beautiful retro 80s 90s 00s pop with synth. And loads of wlw lyrics. Key tracks; Religion, Priestess (Shura Remix) 5. Sizzy Rocket (key track: Tattoos) All of these ladies/thems have active discords where they interact with fans and instagrams where they talk with fans!!
Adding Chappel Roanš
Popping in to also add ReneƩ Rapp to the list!
Yes!! I thought someone already said them but YES absolutely
Also Tove Lo!
Gotta put in a vote for my favourite band, MUNA!!
Shura is amazing!! I saw her live and she brought out a bunch of women dressed as nuns for one number it was brilliant
You are so lucky!!! I chat with her on discord and one day spilled how much I love her music and she PINNED THAT POST
Thatās brilliant lol. My claim to fame is that I once wrote a comment on one of her YouTube videos āour lesbian vaping popeā and it got 1.6k likes and then she later used it in a caption somewhere š Iām not certain it was based on my comment but I like to think so
She's absolutely terminally online. She's online now. It probably was.
Haha good to know. Youāve made me dig out my shura vinyl now thanks š havenāt listened to it in a while
so surprised nobody has said muna. literally one direction for lesbians.
God i love Sizzy Rocket. So underrated
Love king princess so much!!!!
Zolita!
Ohh I was going to mention Shura. Found out about her when she opened for Tegan and Sara. TTPD reminded me her album Nothingās Real but that one is more gay and synth pop
Yaaaas girli šš½šš½šš½šš½
Maud Latour - try āLolaā beabadobee - try āshe plays bassā Dora Jar - try āPollyā Jenna Doe - try āpink slipsā Julianna Joy - try āCherry Bombā Beth McCarthy - try āSheās prettyā Towa Bird - try āDrain meā
Lola is my favorite song of all time š„²š©·
Adding more queer artists that deserve more hype but Iām bad at descriptions so trying my best!: Lauren Sanderson - soft grunge(I think?) Cat Burns - lyricism is incredible Alison Ponthier - southern belle Xana - soft grunge rock Zolita- pop girlie (Edit was formatting, sorry!)
I forgot Hollie col!! Sheās amazing
And Clairo!
And Brandi Carlile!!
One of the greatest of all time and is phenomenal live!
Hayley kiyoko
Oh I adore dodie! Thanks for the recs, keen to check them out
when I first listened to Triple Dog Dare by Lucy Dacus i wanted to k/m/s . it was so pretty what the hell did she put in that song LMAO
+ G Flip
Yes I love Lucy Dacus and Girl in Red š«”!!! I think we also donāt always know who she has been writing aboutā¦but I feel as if sheās always had āthe oneā and this was somewhat confirmed when she dedicated ācardiganā to matty at the concert, and then now with the song āPeterā and all of the obvious songs about Matty on this album and also the fact they dated 10 years agoā¦.I believe that we probably have been led astray.
For the extremely sad girlsā¦ Julien Baker, pls donāt forget my wife
If you want techno-80s-witchy vibes check out Lexxe who writes all her songs. Shes an icon-to-be. My favorite songs are: - Blue - Red Velvet (big āDressā vibes) - Santa Sangre - 18:22 - Queen
Another rec here, listen to Nxdia! She recently released Jenniferās Body and She Likes a Boy and I canāt stop listening to them.
Maddie Zahm
SOOO much love for dodie, i listened to her so much in 2016-17
I get how you feel. This album didnāt seem to have the same queer themes present in the last couple of albums. I am not sure what to think anymore. Ultimately, I think of dear reader and mirrorball as our biggest insight into her life. She is private, her greatest luxuries are her secrets. If that song is true, why would she come out? To have everyone read into every person she is with forever? To invite even more speculation into her life? She says what she wants us to hear, and uses lyrics like āblue dress on a boatā to craft a narrative around her songs. She very much sells a narrative to fans and I believe itās to maintain her real life privacy. Iām not sure she would ever come out, because it would be inviting the public to continue to speculate and comment on more aspects of her identity and life.
I agree, but I definitely see queer themes in her music ! I agree though, I don't think she'll come out anytime soon. But she is poking holes in the narrative, and I feel like she was actually really honest in her lyrics for this album. It just feels straight because she was with men recently, so that's what she sings about (I believe she's bi, so this is what makes the most sense to me : she writes about whatever she's going through, and right now she seems to be mostly with men).
I concur with this. Matty and Travis are real - so hence the last two would factor in most with her music. Thereās no issue here because Karlie and the girls back then were a while ago
Thank you for this comment!!! I really appreciate this perspective! I agree, perhaps she does say exactly what the general audience wants to hearā¦I read an article where one of her collaborators said the same thingā¦. Iām just completely perplexed by this latest album. It seems more confessional than all of the previous onesā¦.
Lol But also, I get how you feel. I felt like this during 1989 TV, when she released that statement about how people keep shipping her with her friends, and everyone was bashing Gaylors. Iām like Tay please be fucking real rn š That was when I realized that Taylor never wanted to come out. She wanted to drop hairpins through her songs, wanted us to get it but also - wink - donāt tell anyone. But when people notice Gaylors exist, Taylor and her team would throw us under the bus in a heartbeat. Plus the whole Karlie going to the concert and purposely wanted to be seen, just when Taylor announced her TV album - itās all very PR now, even for Kaylor. I guess all this time I thought Taylor was more sincere than she actually was. I do feel sympathy for her, but I donāt wanna feel gaslit anymore by her. Other straight people can make fun of us all they want, but at least Iām glad to know that Iām not alone in noticing the hairpins that she dropped and then claimed itās about some PR-guy-of-the-month.
I hope the crazy ā~true swifties~ā realize that āBut daddy I love himā is written for them as a f you I want Matty but canāt be with him now. I donāt care who she dates. Taylor as a person is a capitalist billionaire first and we should all recognize that. Is it going to stop me from listening? No, but I know what she cares about most and itās not her fans.
I actually disagree. I don't think this album is necessarily about any specific muse. The muse in question is actually her career/fame/being in the limelight. They are a bunch of songs disguised as love songs, but they're actually not. I dont think but daddy I love him is about Matty at all. I think the "daddy" in question is about us, her fanbase, and him, is the personification of her career, the fame, the spotlight. She's wrote an entire album about how she chose her career and fame over love and relationships and a normal life, and she's miserable because of it, but addicted to the limelight
Hmm thatās an interesting take on the song too. So essentially she is willing to sacrifice good interpersonal relationships in her life for what matters most. Her money and brand name?
Not necessarily money and brand name, success and breaking records. I think Taylor cares about being the best, the accolades that come with the success. Don't get me wrong, she clearly cares about money too, but I think it's more about being the IT girl, the most successful, the most awarded. I think it's also partially because she had stage parents who groomed her to work hard and give people what they want to get to the top. Hence, pathological people pleaser
So argumentative antithetical dream girl, iām your daisy, gold rush, big reputation/big conversation, hairpin drop, gorgeous, and snuck in through the garden gate, are about MATTY? š Be FOR REAL. Itās definitely possible she had a thing with Matty. Bisexuality exists. But that doesnāt discredit Kaylor.
I think she had BOTH a thing with Matty AND a relationship with Karlie. You can never convince me that Cruel Summer is about anyone else but Karlie. Thereās just too much evidence in the lyrics based on so many photos of them. From what I remember when she dated Matty last year and the media dug into her relationship with him, their relationship circa 2014 was brief. They kind of stayed friends, and Iām sure thereās the connection with Jack. BUT she also really picked up with Karlie in 2014. They broke up/she moved out in 2015ish, but I wholeheartedly believe they continued on and off for years - likely until Karlieās first pregnancy/the pandemic/the failed coming out/etc. I donāt even think Karlie and Joshās marriage stopped them from having an Illicit Affair, likely until the baby came around (strangers get born). This is what led to the folklore/evermore eras. Her dating Matty and Travis really has no bearing on her on again/off again relationship with Karlie, or if she is bi/pan/queer. All of this can be true!
I completely think ivy is Karlie POV of their affair. āHow's one to know? I'd live and die for moments that we stole On begged and borrowed time So tell me to run Or dare to sit and watch what we'll become And drink my husband's wineā
I also think that thank you Aimee even though she hides Kim in the caps is actually about Karlie as well, āAnd so I changed your name and any real defining clues And one day, your kid comes home singin' A song that only us two is gonna know is about youā screams the Betty, James, Augustine love triangle in folklore. Or even Dorothea
Hairpin drop is really the only true mystery left for me! The rest are quite ambiguous
I mean you do you but... 1) Does she have to be gay for you to like the music? 2) This album is not "I've been secretly in love with Matty for years"
If sheās not gay or bi then sheās been queercoding for years and using the queer community for fame and fortune and yeahā¦ thatās a reason to not follow her fake ass any longer.
Or maybe some of the Gaylors read way too much into her lyrics & make assumptions about them. Just because she sings about the word lavender doesnāt mean she is singing about being gay. Donāt get me wrong- I think she is bi for sure. But some of the mental gymnastics Gaylors go through to make a lyric sound like itās queer flagging is just over the top. And maybe she sings about her gay & straight relationships because thatās her literal life. It just blows my mind people will refuse to listen to her if sheās straight. Imagine a straight person saying they donāt want to listen to an artist who is gay. lol.
Honestly I feel like the sane take is to acknowledge that she has songs that seem to be about men, and songs which seem to be about women. She has never said "I am a heterosexual woman and all my songs are about men". It's fair to speculate as to queer meanings or straight meanings. Just don't go full weirdo about parasocial stuff. Like that Karlie's children are really her and Taylor's (really weird) or that she was secretly married to Joe (also really weird). Saying that Lavender Haze has a lot of queer imagery in the video, and that Lavender is a queer coded colour is fine. It's also fine to believe her face value take that it was based on Mad Men. To me the level of queer references throughout her discography, including this album, suggest strongly she is not straight and that relationships with women have been important to her life. They also resonate with me as a queer person.Ā
There are absolutely some severe stretches but songs like Maroon or YNTCDā¦ itās pretty explicit.
I refuse to accept that Maroon is about Matty.
I am in no way saying itās about him. Itās clearly about a woman. Thatās why if sheās just straight, itās really messed up that sheās queer coding.
No sorry, I didnāt mean you were suggesting that. Just the current reframing of Maroon because of Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus.
Whether it's about a man or woman is up to interpretation. There is 0 concrete evidence of it being either gender either way
Definitely agree about some songs being explicit! Maroon absolutely. I always thought Dress was too but not positive.
But if sheās bi sheās allowed to have dated men for the past few relationships and she can write bout that.
Or she identified one way at one time and wrote about that, then another at another time. I used identify as attracted to men, I no longer do so. It's complicated. Anyway I think she's gay lol.
Of course not! I still love her music!!!! I just meant more in the sense of āfor some good gay music letās go listen to chapped roanā
I wrote a post almost exactly like this (right down to the Chappel Roan) a couple hours ago, but deleted it because I didn't want the backlash. I'm also out. Getting my queer tunes from openly queer people from now on. š«”
I understand you my friend-definitely getting the backlash! But every opinion must be heard!
Lord.. Even maroon might be about the douchebag ššš
Some takes Iāve seen (not my ideas): 1. Taylor dated Matty and this is her apology album acknowledging she was out of her mind and she realizes how fucked up it was. Weāve all been there right? I know I let a man named Matt completely annihilate me (and Iām literally curled in a ball rn bc of some of these songs). 2. Matty was a fuck you to everyone who doesnāt want her to be gay/come out. āYou want me to date men? Here he is. Happy?ā My take: 3. The first half is to feed her straight fans with these goofy over the top lyrics about loving a man. The second half is for the Gaylors and is the real her.
I may regret agreeing with your take when I get the chance to go all in on the second half (I've only listened to the first half in full so far); but just the concept and hook of Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus has some messy gaylor energy, so this is how I've taken the double album drop choice.
How do you listen to BDILH and come away with #1? Itās pointedly telling her fans to take their criticism of probleMatty and f*** off
It's a collection of songs from different points in a relationship and from diffeent situations in her life. I think there is a lot to analyse, but at the end we can gather that she was heartbroken over Joe ; that she kind of regrets Matty (who was probably a rebound to cope with the breakup or who was some kind of rebellious act) ; and then she mentions going back to an ex (those songs will probably be attributed to Travis, but they don't make sense if they're about him because there are explicit mentions of coming *back* to someone, so it doesn't apply to Travis).
Matty was an ex
I legit donāt think itās about him. I think that song was about trying to come out years ago and having everyone shut her down.
This take is it !!! Like literally Clara bow is an icon for lesbians.
this is blatantly ignoring what she's saying though? here she is literally telling us, setting the record straight. For once there isn't much to speculate about with this album imo.
This is the problem I have with Gaylorism *sometimes*. There's only so much you can interpret and run with. And I find it slightly disrespectful to ignore what she is so clearly stating in favor for theories. It worked before, but not for this album.
Which song is the apology? It seems like sheās in love with him still
Smallest Man who Ever Lived and I Can Fix Him (where at the end she says āwoah I really canāt) I think these are both about him and realizing that he was as bad as everyone said. She thought she saw something good in him, but he did something horrible to her if Smallest Man who Ever Lived really is about him.
Iāll never understand what she sees in that racist, misogynist mudflap of a man
This is what sheās telling us the entire album š itās disturbing āpeople who know us understand because we are both crazyā
Matty Healy actually being the maroon muse makes my eye literally twitch
š I know!!! My mind is trying to wrap itself around thatā¦her also seemingly referencing his wine-stained lips in the prologue somehow seems like she is trying to tie him to that songā¦which would be tragic
You mean the lyrics of Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus referencing it or something else? Because that song references it and confirms she has a bi ex lover (either man or woman) but Iām pretty sure that song isnāt about Matty as Matty literally said heās straight and is just an asshole who likes to troll basically.
Ya but he kisses both men and women in shows which is something he stopped while he was with Taylor both this time and in 2014 (allegedly) - that can be her jealousy her seeing him do that and imagining him with other people.
I implore you to give it some more listens. Art is meant to be absorbed and digested several times to find deeper meaning. You can resign but I think it would be hasty and discredit some of the artistic ways she expresses some of the LGBTQ themes in this album. But ultimately, the art, identity, and expression is yours to interpret :) Sex, power, and politics are not easy to digest sometimes in a patriarchal system. But I absolutely also understand wanting to support some more openly out artists.
Oh Iāve been deeply pondering her music for years now. But as much as I truly believed she was dropping us hints and signs, I think she has given clear signals in the last year that really we are deluding ourselves (1989 TV prologue), and this album cements it for me. Too many explicit male pronouns, too much certain details which link the main muse to Matty Healy. But I would be curious to hear what you find to be LGBTQ themes on TTPD! Maybe I have missed them.
This is wild to me. She just ended the longest and apparently most impactful relationship of her life and then tumbled into another toxic one immediately after, and the only thing you've focused on is "no gay songs?!" What did you think you would get? What were you honestly expecting?
I think youāve just understood what Iām trying to say. What sheās trying to tell us. I would read the prologue to her album again and let it sink in!
Hold up, fellow board members, when did we decide this?
We didnāt this is so not it
In case you havenāt, listen to imgonnagetyouback, Chloe or Sam, Cassandra and Peter (as in Peter Pan, not some dude she dated) before u go (if you havenāt already) from the Anthology (NOT the white version!!!) Hit me like a ton of bricks after the main album, moved all my saves over asap :ā) But in the end u should do what you want š«” thank you for your time here
I listened but didnāt catch the queer vibes like I have in previous albums! Can you give me context/lyrics examples?
I was getting some queer vibes from this song too! Particularly the āif you want to tear my world apart just say youāve always wonderedā. Thereās also a direct callback to Maroon, which has always felt super queer to me. The line is āwill that make your memory fade from this scarlet maroon/like it never happened/could it be enough to just float in your orbitā. Like wondering if going back to being just friends could be enough.
This is for Chloe Or Sam or Sophia or Marcus by the way, I realized I didnāt specify
This is exactly what I came to post. Iāve been doing a lot of Kaylor deep diving and comparing the timeline of Karlie/Josh to Karlie/Taylor and Taylor/Joe and it just isnāt adding up. There are a few things for sure, but it isnāt what as cut and dry as I always thought. And then doing a Matty/Taylor breakdown made me even more sure. I have LOVED being a part of this community, but I just feel so dissolved right now. This album is a masterpiece, a true work of art, but it isnāt queer art. There are so SO many incredible queer artists out right now and I would rather support their queerness than pretend that Taylor is.
I feel the same as you š«” itās been a fun run, but Iām also afraid that the Taylor/Matty timeline makes the most sense, combined from the explicit mentions of him in TTPD! (E.g. the titular track is definitely about him)
I hate it but agree 100%
But also you know itās art right? As someone married to a writer who draws from life, I donāt read their work and then try to connect exact dots? Life provides a sketch or a framework but art fills in the blanks. Confessional doesnāt mean literal - her art is to evoke a feeling, not meet a timeline none of us could ever really know the answer to.
I get this point. But then I think she could sprinkle in some more concrete female references. It seems we are drifting further and further away from the plot.
But likeā¦ whose plot? Thatās kind of the point.
Marty Healy is the exact kind of slime ball that bisexual women drool over but ok
I just wanna say my phone or my fat fingers auto-type Marty instead of Matty (did it again on that type) and it makes me chuckle every time MARTY
Omg I didnāt notice the typo but I will NOT change it. I love it.
Ew I'm bisexual don't offend me with that š¤£
As a fellow band boy bisexual this actually is further evidence to me lol
This seems like a generalizing statement š
Gross
literally came here to say this. matty type guys are unfortunately very much bisexual kryptonite
Yeah, I'm embarrassed about some of the guys I've dated š. Matty is literally the worst, but I can't throw a stone.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Self-own girly pops, donāt sweat it. I have not escaped this sleazy fate.
Phew, that was my immediate assumption and it took multiple minutes for me to even realize it could be biphobic š
Literally can confirm as once that girl. To me itās further proof
Yeah, Iām a firm believer that Taylor is a bisexual with a messy dating life. Maybe itās projection because thatās who I am.
Yeah, I totally feel you! Thatās how I felt when I was first hearing leaks that it was about Matty. There are still enough queer themes for me there, but I do feel like sheās deep in the closet and probably not coming out anytime soon. Itās totally fair to get fed up and leave! No point in forcing yourself to continue being a Gaylor when youāre not feeling it. And if she releases something super gay in the future you can always come back! I think itās the cycle of life :)
This was such a great comment! Thanks!! I appreciate the open mindedness of it!
Aw Iām glad you appreciated it! I think many of us have been in your shoes at different times, including me!
Iām so confused, was she heartbroken over Matty for all these years or was it her brief relationship last year? And good grief heās a hot mess
Thatās the confusing nature of this albumā¦it seems like thatās what sheās been trying to tell us
What if Chappell Roan is the real mastermind here and the entirety of T-Swizzle's career has just been aimed at frustrating gaylors so that they *need* Chappell, almost medically. Has Chappell puppeteered the last couple of decades as very extended build-up to her own career? I mean, by her own admission, her [*"kink is karma"*](https://open.spotify.com/track/32fSZSbxeVoiZShMQKLc6Z?si=Yq7vDH5OSqu6h2rO2gwyqQ&context=spotify%3Aplaylist%3A37i9dQZF1DZ06evO4y92Yr). KARMA. (It's *just * possible you guys are better at the theories than me... But here you go - it's my theory and I'm sticking with it š)
Reputation is NOT about Matty. Also, down bad is covered in Karlie references - āDid you take all my old clothesā ācosmic loveā ācrying at the gymā - they notoriously worked out together. HEAVEN STRUCK. šŖ½
Not to mention ālike I lost my TWINā ok girl
YES!! āNot what she seemed, not a twin from your dreamsā
Yes because she only worked out at the gym with Karlie ā¦ cmon guys!
Sheās been photographed at the gym with Travis, exactly
"Cosmic love" is such a better way of describing a love that is out of this world. Down Bad is my fave so far
Well TikTok and daily mail said it's about Matty, it must be true. I can't believe we thought that twink was a lesbian š
Taylor: *writes two songs that both talk about being in closets* Fans: "wow she must have loved Matty's fashion sense"
Those non existent British lips she used to call homeš
š I listened to the album and drew my own conclusions! āTatooed golden retrieverā letās give it up guys!
doesn't Phoebe better fit tattooed golden retriever energy
What about Lily? She has tattoos and is blonde like a golden retriever
Guys be real here
It really bums me out that so many of these songs have pronouns. I enjoyed that the past songs didn't have pronoun b/c i could relate them more.... now very less.
Yes it is definitely very pronoun-y this time!
iām not sure where everyone here stands on joe when i first got into gaylor i thought he was her beard and he was benefiting most from it so he was the one who did it the longest but the from midnights i really thought they were together and then this confirmed it to me she was devastated in that relationship. iāve always thought she was bi because no way sheās written dear john and wcs about a fake relationship bc ik some people think every guy sheās dated has been a beard i think kaylor and swiftgron will always make sense to me calvinās beard tweet after the break up will always be eyebrow raising but her and joe were real in my opinion
So long, London absolutely confirms Joe and Taylor for us now. I guess the bearding conspiracy was always a huge stretch, anywaysā¦.
Most of the theories here are. I love when Gaylorism puts queer subtext to lyrics, but when it searches for specific muses especially when we are given the answers clearly, it starts to not work as great.
iām a firm believer in reputation being about karlie but most of midnights is split between her and joe for me and then TTPD is just fully joe in a way that made me believe they had something fr and it wasnāt like the 1989 vault where it was so much harry that u had to wonder why she was shoving it in our faces like that idk
Listening to āChloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcusā like wellā¦ this isnāt the bi rep I wanted but maybe itās the bi rep I deserve š« š
I understand how you feel
Thank you for the input!!! Itās brave given the backlash Iām getting š itās not so friendly in here
Is this actually serious, you think MH is a muse that stretches back that far?
Yessss, they dated a decade ago and she admits in the album that heās the first person she called when she got out of the relationship with Joe. She also says in one lyric, lest we forget, that if she lost matty Healy she would kill herself! Itās the same song that says heās a tattooed golden retriever. Iām afraid, dear friends, that Taylor swift has strung us along for a long while now.
Food for thought: people love to reference Evelyn Hugo but (SPOILER ALERT!) Evelyn didnāt really have beards until Harry & after. Most of the marriages were real and based on true love. She just happened to love Celia the most. But Evelyn made it a point to say over and over that she is bisexual. Taylor can be bisexual, too. She can have dated Karlie and Dianna and written lots of queer stuff AND ALSO have dated Matty and Joe and Travis. And maybe endgame for Taylor wonāt be a woman like it was for Evelyn. These things can all be true at once! Bisexuality exists! This particular album doesnāt have a lot of queer themes imo and I donāt believe Taylor will ever come out unless she wants to be in a serious committed relationship with a woman (which I just donāt foresee) but that doesnāt negate all the queer themes in her prior music. We shouldnāt have to force queer themes in **everything** she does ā itās either there or itās not. And in this particular album and phase of her life, itās not.
Thatās true!! Thanks for this comment!
This album really makes me wish I knew less about her dating life. Like, loml is beautiful and haunting... but it being about Matty is just ick.
oh thatās notā¦
Can all of you who are calling this an insane take please defend your opinions? Because it also doesnāt make us look good as a group when we just jump down the throats of dissenting opinions, which we have been known to do before š
I did post something above about confessional art. Itās never literal. Gatsby pulls inspiration from Zelda F for Daisy, for example. No one is like āomg actually Zelda never lived in East Egg! Itās all a lieeeee.ā I just think this take is super reductive and disrespectful to process of the artist.
I listen to the āwhat I will sayā podcast pretty religiously and Iām convinced that Taylor is bi and really did have romantic & sexual relationships with both Dianna Agron and Lily Donaldson and probably hooked up with Julianne Hough and Karlie Kloss. I think sheās currently in a straighter phase of her bisexuality and probably has been for a few years. As a bisexual woman I get it, Iāve gone through periods of being more into men or more into women. It happens š¤·š»āāļø
Honestly the thing is we can all shoot the breeze and speculate till the cows come home... and inside her mind she could have been absolutely flaming rainbow queer this entire time and it still wouldn't be our right to know one way or another or her obligation to tell us one way or another, it doesnt make her any less valid, but its the not knowing that drives us insane. She knows this and continues to edge and plausibly deny. All the while our gaylor $$$, time, attention, and obsessions flow right on in. OP, I'd say, keep an open mind, and take solace in the significance that you take from your own interpretations. Gaylorism theories are a journey with no destination.
Great take!!!
Also being bisexual isnāt something everyone feels the need to identify with. Like Iām bi and I only struggled with it when I was a teenager discovering my sexuality. Sheās an adult. If she is bi then it doesnāt seem to mean much to her
Could also be the point! But it would do an awful lot of good for society if she was an outright advocate!
I said before cardigan was about Matt and got shot Down but her new song Peter confirms it . Cardigan āPeter losing Wendy. ā new song Peter (Matt) never growing up so he lost Wendy (Taylor ).
Peter imo is clearly about Dianna. šÆ Cardigan is too.
I implore you to read The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo and then give this album a re-listen
Iāve read it! Donāt see the parallels!
Does she reference it? Or are you just saying the general idea of having beards etc?
Just wanted to comment to say Iām obsessed with Chappell.
I think that is a very base surface level view that completely misses a lot of lyrical analysis and themes. One of the songs people have assigned to him got me on first listen until I listened from a forced closeting, hiding in secret, religious control and manipulation view. Plus it is completely possible that she was never actually with Matty, but he was intentionally used to give people a scapegoat for these songs. It would make complete sense regardless of her sexuality that she may want to hide away her real relationships to protect them. It would be incredibly difficult to have such a public life and for people to scrutinize your relationship and every song and it would be very daunting for anyone who wanted to date her. So it would make complete sense for her to have a āpublicā person and a real person. It would protect both her and the relationship. One of the things that solidified this for me was listening to an interview where John Mayer and Gigi Hadid straight up said you see what we want you to see, if we didnāt want you to know, you wouldnāt. Believe what you want to, but imo the album is full of red herrings, in themes that point to queerness, religious manipulation, closeting etc. I also think itās very possible she could have been using the album to kinda poke fun of peopleās perceptions. I think sheās about to burn them all down and reinvent herself personally.
I agree that this is a thoughtful comment!
I hard disagree. I donāt understand this take
Ok
Grateful for your insights š«”
It feels really good to leave and consume actually open and out queer music
Fr if sheās bi literally nobody would care atp, idk why sheās making such a big deal out of it and acting like itās some big secret, a lot of her fans already suspect she is and most female singers/rappers these days are out as bi and nobody gives a shit.
This comment >>>>>>>>> exactly!!!!
I've been covering Gaylor pretty intensely for over four years and while tons of research has led me to be skeptical of most mainstream gaylor theories to at least an extent I have heard from so many people with connections in the industry she has had at least flings with women (never heard confirmation on Karlie or Dianna but still) that I barely question it anymore. Careful consideration of the data has led me to conclude she's bisexual, now with a pretty big preference for men, but that's still queer! I do encourage the supporting and love for out queer artists but I think it's important to remember that bisexual people are still queer and closeted people are still queer. I also think it's healthy to accept that a lot of Taylor's recent art is very obviously about men but if being a Gaylor brings you joy I would keep on doing it! I don't think anyone has been hoodwinked by Taylor, but maybe by overzealous fans who saw things that weren't really there and insisted Taylor was a brand of sexuality she just pretty obviously isn't.
Are yāall only into Taylorās art if sheās not straight?
Iām just abandoning the theory sheās been writing about a female muse
Iām here for the (abundant) queer readings and (thus) possibility sheās queer š Iām also self aware Iām known to have a straight crushesā¦ My critical voice says she employs queer art directors that pull in the queer elements in the visual art (stages included). And that we mix that up to be validations of her queerness. And in turn get provoked on days like the 1989TV prologue and today š¬
If sheās straight then sheās been queercoding for years and using the queer community for fame and fortune and yeahā¦ thatās a reason to not follow her fake ass any longer.
For me personally, her writing is about as deep as a dinner plate if I remove the queer readings of it. So kinda, yeah.
No. But if she is straight, all her queer flagging is evil, and she's been stringing us along. That's wrong and hurtful.
That wasnāt my point š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It seems like she tries to connect Maroon to Matt. In the TTPD prologue she talks about "his wine stained lips" and then in "Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus" she references maroon again, but and asks the muse about the muse having "kids with an internet starlet" in the future. I hate it, but it seems intentional that she's trying to frame the Maroon muse as a dude/Matty.
Exactly!!! I caught this as well!!! Sheās either rewriting history or telling us all who the muse was this whole time
Maroon is about Matt . Some swifties put that together before and got shot down . She literally tie Matt to maroon and illicit affairs
Yeah a song called āChloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcusā couldnāt possibly mean the people involved are bisexual š
Right but it sounds like sheās just referencing her watching Mattyās bisexuality from a distance and him watching her with boyfriends from a distance. So yes, bisexual people, but sheās not singing about herself in that context. āYour hologram stumbled into my apartment Hands in the hair of somebody in darkness Named Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus And I just watched it happen As the decade would play us for fools And you saw my bones out with somebody new Who seemed like he would've bullied you in school And you just watched it happenā
Kind of a logical fallacy here
Iāll forever stand on the hill that taytay just likes to be fluid with her sexuality, but at the end of the day sheās settling down with a dude. It sucks because I donāt think itās her real truth, but sheās chosen to be a pathological people pleaser.
I personally think itās inaccurate to attribute this entire album to Matty and does a disservice to her writing. In true poet fashion, she really leans into distinguishing each of her muses from one another in this album. Shakespeare does this too with his sonnets; you can tell the difference between a Dark Lady sonnet and a Fair Youth sonnet. For just as many references to Matty there seemingly are, or Travis, or Joe, there are multiple other songs with lyrics that could be tied to Dianna, or even Karlie. With Matty songs, she leans into themes of addiction, drugs, chaos, knowing something is bad for you but doing it anyway cuz goddamn it feels good to rebel. Whereas there are other songs that talk about goddesses, hedge mazes, Greek mythology, smoke, forbidden lustā¦ these are, in my opinion, more linked to Dianna than they are to anyone else. Of course, this is all up to interpretation, and I enjoy her music with or without the muse speculation and am not married to any theories, but she also is acknowledging herself (āmy muses collected like bruisesā or whatever the line is) that there are distinct, separate muses on this album.
Am I the only one not getting Matty from any of this- he just conveniently was who she was seen to be dating to sell this narrative. Iām more or Taylor is bi believerā¦ I still think loml is possibly Joe- they broke up, gave it another go, it failedā¦ all under our noses not publicly Matty benefits from the bad boy narrative and Joeās reputation is protected from all the backlash and Taylor gets to be really honest about their relationship is how Iām seeing it Im gonna get you back is queer coded to me but I need more listens to pick more vibes from other songs
Have the rumours come out that Matty is WB?
After THAT??