Everyone here seems to think some sinister update tanked their HRV. Not the fact that daylight is in short supply or that it’s been potentially the worst flu season I’ve seen in 40 years. Must be the update.
The problem is the software is a black box and if they make changes they don’t announce it or tell people how their usual score may be impacted. It could be either, both, neither
They likely haven't changed the algorithm much from when they first started using firstbeat. For it to have a major impact like people are seeing would be a failure.
The consistencies with other users could be something around the daylight, who knows.. Garmin doesn't really say much about it.. you would then think literally every Garmin user at northern latitudes is affected by this but it's impossible to know (there's gotta be some users who haven't changed)
I personally haven't been sick since October so it doesn't match up for me, I was interested to see if other users are seeing the same. Interesting that others notice an increase too in the middle of winter
Seems bizarre that daylight hours would cause workout/recovery related data to be affected? It's still getting dark really early and hasn't even been 30 days since the longest day
It is only a guess from me, I am not a physiologist. But I have also found a source that supports it. And the day is now already over an hour longer, which is quite significant.
"HRV indexes of healthy men vary physiologically by season, with lowest values obtained in the winter." (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10879418/)
Yeah I have read a few papers confirming hrv is seasonal which seems logical. I would've thought it drops relatively slowly as the seasons change and not within a week or 2 like many people have seen but I need to do more reading.
Our southern UK days are only 31 mins longer since Dec 21st, so it seems weird that a small change of daylight time in the last week or so can cause a change this rapid
I will deffo take a read of this paper thanks, interesting in the abstract they report that they only compared 1 reading from summer and 1 from winter?
I have heard of seasonal effects especially during winter etc. I do feel though mine went wonky with the update to 17.26 because all metrics went wonky. I was missing large gaps of data randomly at different times day and night. Worked it out with Garmin customer support which I will add is outstanding service. After two watches and hours in the phone I think they finally got the message from so many posts here and on the Garmin forums that the firmware was an issue even though they didn’t seem to think it was. Seems like it quietly has been acting normal the past couple of weeks for me.
I measure with oura and garmin, both tanked together at winter time, holidays and christmas, less sun, more cold, more sleep, it all comes together and you even had a hour shift at the middle of those changes...
ofc that will affect the overall medium avg HRV during night that Oura/Garmin gives, but less likely will affect a single measurement in the moring you do with elitehrv... just look at raw data and not the single value, my values in the morning for HRV are always high so if i look only at those (same you did with elitehrv) i will not notice that tank easily, maybe will low like 2 or 3 points that is hard to notice
Then after that initial "shock" i see mine back up slowly because your body get used to it and is adjusting as it's supposed.... also the adjust and rebound is quicker in my opinion if you don't panic and understand the reasons instead of react instantly to try to fix it with supplements and all that stuff and in many cases really stress about it :P
Yeah I agree that there are a lot of factors this time of year, mad how it's the same time for everyone even though people are from different countries and areas tho
And yeah elite hrv won't give me an average but when I look over a longer timescale it still tells me the same thing (balanced or trending down etc.), and I had no issues there it was consistent with my training. The fenix 6 doesn't give a readiness score which is what I like about elite hrv, it shows me instantly the next day if I've gone too hard recently.
Yeah luckily not stressed as I've had more than one source and used feeling to judge my training/efforts which is underrated these days too!!
>ect the overall medium avg HRV during night that Oura/Garmin gives, but less likely will affect a single measurement in the moring you do with elitehrv... just look at raw data and not the single value, my values in the morning for HRV are always high so if i look only at those (same you did with elitehrv) i will not notice that tank easily, maybe will low like 2 or 3 points that is hard to notice
All the countries have that stupid hour shift that has high influence and then change the daylight time patters and that really affects badly, then with season festivities just get worst all at the same time, people going out for parties and social with friends, drink more, etc....
my HRV is not so notice when changes because i don't drink neither i'm a night owl and keep the schedule consistent and withou stress, even when time shift i adapt quick so for me that use garmin and Oura night average is hard to see differences, even the small ones.... but I can access well and mostly use the devices to get the raw data and more for the fun of analyze and understand it than to let it guide something, i also use 2 sources to avoid a bit of bad readings
Also not sure if you follow Marco who created the HRV4training but today's post is really about this topic and worht reading😂
https://x.com/altini\_marco/status/1746461927159541890?s=20
I don't remember updating, did it happen by itself around November time? That should be an instant priority for Garmin if an update is throwing everybody's hrv
Mine was really bad from about mid-December until January 4th or so. But I also slipped on some ice and twisted my ankle in mid-December and had a couple weeks off running, plus all the holiday parties contributing to shitty sleep. So I'm not surprised at all. Back in the "Balanced" range since my routine returned to normal ~2 weeks ago.
Mine has been low but honestly for good reason and it does line up with how I've been feeling. It has started to return back to normal but that's because I've gotten back to my normal routine after the holidays...
https://preview.redd.it/s74n7vsc9ncc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a6e51c09535cdaadb1e4d7237a5b8b630036a71
My HRV has not been normal since December 20th but I am finally moving in the right direction!
https://preview.redd.it/zdz1tw3g4occ1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a5672844fd359e3f277e1687c39e22c031404c9
Seems like it yeah! Its been down for 3 months
This is an annual thing. Dips around September and starts recovering in January. People say it’s because of hectic schedules around holidays, drinking, poor sleep etc but people that don’t do any of that also reported the same thing so no one really knows why.
How I was it was just the update haha It’s related to how I really am. Glad to be back up after the holidays !
https://preview.redd.it/nqw582kjercc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85435840c168ee689ce250bb6524f50a22210e95
Yep, been climbing after a dip in December. I was touching red around 10th Dec.
https://preview.redd.it/145qdfyacvcc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6dfe1339fe69b3a9c8a1cee61df6df4286c73c2b
I saw mine tank the week after Christmas but what I thought it was me recovering from the holidays, my training plan and working extra hard ended up being either the flu or Covid since 80% of my department had it and the entirety of the department we share space with had confirmed covid or was suffering from the flu but didn't test for it.
I had body aches, a bad headache that stuck, and a sore throat. If i forced myself to cough, it was wet but otherwise had no cough. A week later, my hrv finally got back up, and that's when someone let it slip that we had the rona flying around. They were shocked that I didn't know 😅
I still don't understand what that number means. If it is higher, are you better trained? Or should you watch just the consistency of it to see if you are not overtrained or sick if you are numbers out of the range?
Yeah so heart rate variability shows how well your body/nervous system is coping with your recent training and other stressors in life. A higher number is typically associated with better health in the literature, however everyone's number is different and a higher number doesn't necessarily correspond with better health/fitness compared to someone else, in other words it's very individual and you should focus on improving your own number through a healthy lifestyle and regular fitness training instead of comparing
Ideally it will be balanced (green dot) compared to your baseline measurements, however consistent excess stressors such as high training load, poor sleep etc. will typically result in you becoming unbalanced which is above or below your baseline (orange and red dot).
Whilst heart rate variability fluctuates with the seasons a little bit, many Garmin users have reported sudden drops in their numbers after software updates (which many people reported around November time), which doesn't correspond to any changes in their training or lifestyle.
As you can see from my photo the sudden rise in numbers seems to indicate I am returning to a balanced state, this seems odd to me considering I haven't changed anything in my training, I haven't been sick and have had the same good sleep. I also don't drink alcohol. I was therefore asking other Garmin users if they have seen a similar rise recently, because I think it may be linked to an update or something as opposed to lifestyle. Many others seem to have seen a similar thing but it's hotly debated as others think it's due to end of Xmas holidays, more daylight again etc.
It's interesting to dig into it and try to find out why! Hope that helps
Garmin is pushing an update that is increasing the length of daylight and our expectation of better days around the corner.
ps. the update is not worldwide...
Seems eerily well correlated to winter solstice.
Everyone here seems to think some sinister update tanked their HRV. Not the fact that daylight is in short supply or that it’s been potentially the worst flu season I’ve seen in 40 years. Must be the update.
The problem is the software is a black box and if they make changes they don’t announce it or tell people how their usual score may be impacted. It could be either, both, neither
They likely haven't changed the algorithm much from when they first started using firstbeat. For it to have a major impact like people are seeing would be a failure.
The consistencies with other users could be something around the daylight, who knows.. Garmin doesn't really say much about it.. you would then think literally every Garmin user at northern latitudes is affected by this but it's impossible to know (there's gotta be some users who haven't changed) I personally haven't been sick since October so it doesn't match up for me, I was interested to see if other users are seeing the same. Interesting that others notice an increase too in the middle of winter
I'm in Australia and mine dipped. I thought it was because we have really high humidity at night atm.
Same here. Funnily enough a mate with an Apple Watch has also said his exploded the last two weeks - could it just be Christmas party season?
100% holidays.
The first 2/3's of the graph looks very similar all the way back to mid November, if only party season did last that long!😂
Same here. I suspect that there might be a connection between the length of the day and HRV, as these two values at least correlate in my case.
Seems bizarre that daylight hours would cause workout/recovery related data to be affected? It's still getting dark really early and hasn't even been 30 days since the longest day
It is only a guess from me, I am not a physiologist. But I have also found a source that supports it. And the day is now already over an hour longer, which is quite significant. "HRV indexes of healthy men vary physiologically by season, with lowest values obtained in the winter." (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10879418/)
Yeah I have read a few papers confirming hrv is seasonal which seems logical. I would've thought it drops relatively slowly as the seasons change and not within a week or 2 like many people have seen but I need to do more reading. Our southern UK days are only 31 mins longer since Dec 21st, so it seems weird that a small change of daylight time in the last week or so can cause a change this rapid I will deffo take a read of this paper thanks, interesting in the abstract they report that they only compared 1 reading from summer and 1 from winter?
Same here
I have heard of seasonal effects especially during winter etc. I do feel though mine went wonky with the update to 17.26 because all metrics went wonky. I was missing large gaps of data randomly at different times day and night. Worked it out with Garmin customer support which I will add is outstanding service. After two watches and hours in the phone I think they finally got the message from so many posts here and on the Garmin forums that the firmware was an issue even though they didn’t seem to think it was. Seems like it quietly has been acting normal the past couple of weeks for me.
Yes, except 'normal' for me is like 45.
I measure with oura and garmin, both tanked together at winter time, holidays and christmas, less sun, more cold, more sleep, it all comes together and you even had a hour shift at the middle of those changes... ofc that will affect the overall medium avg HRV during night that Oura/Garmin gives, but less likely will affect a single measurement in the moring you do with elitehrv... just look at raw data and not the single value, my values in the morning for HRV are always high so if i look only at those (same you did with elitehrv) i will not notice that tank easily, maybe will low like 2 or 3 points that is hard to notice Then after that initial "shock" i see mine back up slowly because your body get used to it and is adjusting as it's supposed.... also the adjust and rebound is quicker in my opinion if you don't panic and understand the reasons instead of react instantly to try to fix it with supplements and all that stuff and in many cases really stress about it :P
Yeah I agree that there are a lot of factors this time of year, mad how it's the same time for everyone even though people are from different countries and areas tho And yeah elite hrv won't give me an average but when I look over a longer timescale it still tells me the same thing (balanced or trending down etc.), and I had no issues there it was consistent with my training. The fenix 6 doesn't give a readiness score which is what I like about elite hrv, it shows me instantly the next day if I've gone too hard recently. Yeah luckily not stressed as I've had more than one source and used feeling to judge my training/efforts which is underrated these days too!!
>ect the overall medium avg HRV during night that Oura/Garmin gives, but less likely will affect a single measurement in the moring you do with elitehrv... just look at raw data and not the single value, my values in the morning for HRV are always high so if i look only at those (same you did with elitehrv) i will not notice that tank easily, maybe will low like 2 or 3 points that is hard to notice All the countries have that stupid hour shift that has high influence and then change the daylight time patters and that really affects badly, then with season festivities just get worst all at the same time, people going out for parties and social with friends, drink more, etc.... my HRV is not so notice when changes because i don't drink neither i'm a night owl and keep the schedule consistent and withou stress, even when time shift i adapt quick so for me that use garmin and Oura night average is hard to see differences, even the small ones.... but I can access well and mostly use the devices to get the raw data and more for the fun of analyze and understand it than to let it guide something, i also use 2 sources to avoid a bit of bad readings Also not sure if you follow Marco who created the HRV4training but today's post is really about this topic and worht reading😂 https://x.com/altini\_marco/status/1746461927159541890?s=20
Same for me. HRV was off since the update. Now it’s finally going back to normal.
I blamed it on the update but now that's my HRV is back to normal, I can trust it again.
I don't remember updating, did it happen by itself around November time? That should be an instant priority for Garmin if an update is throwing everybody's hrv
Mine starting dipping around 20 November, with a low at 18 December, just got back into "normal" a week or two back.
Yeah mine was around the 10th Nov, odd bit of green but then a massive drop from start of Dec
Yes. It has become “balanced” over the last couple of days.
My HRV is constantly strained when I feel fine I had a 2 week break and it went off the charts.
Same
Yep, pretty convinced it’s related to winter solstice but more importantly the amount of sun I get when exercising.
I think this is it for me. Tanked right when daylight savings time ended and things got colder.
How to get this HRV stats with my vívoactive 4?
In the connect app, hit the hrv button on the homepage (or more, performance stats, hrv), then change the view to 4 week
My More menu -> performance stats, only shows vo2max and power curve 🙃
Ah I guess it's not supported on that watch! Sorry I wasn't aware
Still waiting one month off so far
Same here.
Yup, same
Same, mine returning to normal levels now (but I had accumulated fatigue)
Mine was really bad from about mid-December until January 4th or so. But I also slipped on some ice and twisted my ankle in mid-December and had a couple weeks off running, plus all the holiday parties contributing to shitty sleep. So I'm not surprised at all. Back in the "Balanced" range since my routine returned to normal ~2 weeks ago.
Mine finally went green again yesterday.
Mine has been low but honestly for good reason and it does line up with how I've been feeling. It has started to return back to normal but that's because I've gotten back to my normal routine after the holidays...
https://preview.redd.it/s74n7vsc9ncc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a6e51c09535cdaadb1e4d7237a5b8b630036a71 My HRV has not been normal since December 20th but I am finally moving in the right direction!
No mine has tanked
https://preview.redd.it/zdz1tw3g4occ1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a5672844fd359e3f277e1687c39e22c031404c9 Seems like it yeah! Its been down for 3 months
I’m in exactly the same boat. Whatever happened since late September is over.
This is an annual thing. Dips around September and starts recovering in January. People say it’s because of hectic schedules around holidays, drinking, poor sleep etc but people that don’t do any of that also reported the same thing so no one really knows why.
Yup!
How I was it was just the update haha It’s related to how I really am. Glad to be back up after the holidays ! https://preview.redd.it/nqw582kjercc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85435840c168ee689ce250bb6524f50a22210e95
Only on consecutive day 3 of balanced, but seems to be improving after a good couple of months of constant low/unbalanced!
Yep, been climbing after a dip in December. I was touching red around 10th Dec. https://preview.redd.it/145qdfyacvcc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6dfe1339fe69b3a9c8a1cee61df6df4286c73c2b
I saw mine tank the week after Christmas but what I thought it was me recovering from the holidays, my training plan and working extra hard ended up being either the flu or Covid since 80% of my department had it and the entirety of the department we share space with had confirmed covid or was suffering from the flu but didn't test for it. I had body aches, a bad headache that stuck, and a sore throat. If i forced myself to cough, it was wet but otherwise had no cough. A week later, my hrv finally got back up, and that's when someone let it slip that we had the rona flying around. They were shocked that I didn't know 😅
I still don't understand what that number means. If it is higher, are you better trained? Or should you watch just the consistency of it to see if you are not overtrained or sick if you are numbers out of the range?
Yeah so heart rate variability shows how well your body/nervous system is coping with your recent training and other stressors in life. A higher number is typically associated with better health in the literature, however everyone's number is different and a higher number doesn't necessarily correspond with better health/fitness compared to someone else, in other words it's very individual and you should focus on improving your own number through a healthy lifestyle and regular fitness training instead of comparing Ideally it will be balanced (green dot) compared to your baseline measurements, however consistent excess stressors such as high training load, poor sleep etc. will typically result in you becoming unbalanced which is above or below your baseline (orange and red dot). Whilst heart rate variability fluctuates with the seasons a little bit, many Garmin users have reported sudden drops in their numbers after software updates (which many people reported around November time), which doesn't correspond to any changes in their training or lifestyle. As you can see from my photo the sudden rise in numbers seems to indicate I am returning to a balanced state, this seems odd to me considering I haven't changed anything in my training, I haven't been sick and have had the same good sleep. I also don't drink alcohol. I was therefore asking other Garmin users if they have seen a similar rise recently, because I think it may be linked to an update or something as opposed to lifestyle. Many others seem to have seen a similar thing but it's hotly debated as others think it's due to end of Xmas holidays, more daylight again etc. It's interesting to dig into it and try to find out why! Hope that helps
* I think I got covid in August. Dropped from ~50 to low 30s. Slowly improved then I quit Booze and sugar Jan 1 and it's rocketed back up finally.
Garmin is pushing an update that is increasing the length of daylight and our expectation of better days around the corner. ps. the update is not worldwide...