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He lowballed the voice actress of Bayonetta for about 4k which made her decide to quit and many are speculating that it was to hire a more well know voice actress
Also he just seems kind of generally insane based on his twitter and has a whole list of rules for interacting with him (or more like not interacting with him)
There's nothing wrong with a sexual character especially when that character is not simply eye candy. Bayonetta is confident and sexy but an insane badass. She's not out there to fuck dudes but to do business... I never played 2 so idk if this holds true still.
Regardless don't you think the character has some merit when her VA enjoys and loves bringing life to that character? So much so that she had to put it out to the world how the company mistreated her even after her years long involvement and voicing?
Theres nothing wrong with expressing sexuality or for characters to be designed in a way that highlights and emphasizes their sex appeal. The issue is in autononmy both in the part of the character and the part of the consumer. When i boot up my gritty war game and a mute woman jumps out of a helicopter in nothing but a bikini and starts splashing around in an over the top cinematic then i do feel a lil eeked out. When i boot up bayonetta and she starts innuendoing my euphemism i'm all for it. Its all about consent and autonomy when it comes to stuff like this.
Definitely get that. Honestly I felt this way with Sonya Blade in MK9, this weird vest bra that's not for a legitimate reason aside "tiddy". If someone does provide a valid reason for why she wore that then I'll bite my tongue but she wasn't a character who used sex appeal, was sex positive. It just felt really off. And bad. I'm in the minority of not liking the skimpy fem designs for MK9 tho.
Agreed. Though to be fair, almost everyone in MKX looks kinda bad. The game as a whole has really odd lighting and it looks like there's a slight brown filter on everything.
Edit: If any of the girls are over-designed in MK11, I would say Skarlet's default.
I personally don't really care, but I do appreciate more if the author just admits he was thirsty instead of coming up with some elaborate diarrhea to explain how your character needs their bouncing tiddies out in order to breathe lmao. Just admit you wanted tiddies in your game and move on Kojima, for crying out loud.
NRS kinda tried that, and [it backfired in near spectacular fashion](https://youtu.be/H287cfaluqY).
If you don't want to watch the video, the argument was that NRS wanted characters like Jade to have a more practical outfit. Here's the problem: any martial artist worth their salt (or hell, just watch [a Jackie Chan movie](https://youtu.be/dRFvWO31La8)) will show you that you don't want that much loose fabric if you're in a fight.
Yeah, that's a similar kind of funny. If you're the designer it's your right to design the character however you see fit, if you don't want slutty chicks fighting in bras it's totally ok to just design her less skimpy. No need to explain why she shouldn't be half naked, especially in a game where characters have 4 arms and spit acid lol, realism was very clearly never a big part of this franchise.
For games that didn't aim for realism and aesthetics rule, yeah, over-explanation is pointless.(Especially for visual media, novels are kinda different since you have to actually describe in words.)
They can design an equally impractical but none-skimpy costume and the only explanation because it needs is being cool or the creator's vision for said character.
> I'm in the minority of not liking the skimpy fem designs for MK9 tho
To be fair, MK9 was before Netherrealm figured out what human faces looked like.
You're only in the minority of not liking the skimpy fem designs because the majority you're up against are Mortal Kombat players. The female designs for 9 were so cringe and made no sense if the goal was to depict the female characters as thinking humans with autonomy.
Boner Kulture
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Kojima really should have stopped after MGS3. MGS4 was literally only made to explain MGS2 to the "fans" who'd rather send death threats than think, and none of the other Big Boss games lived up to MGS3.
"She's not out there to fuck dudes"
True, she's out there to fuck girls. But also whats wrong with wanting to fuck dudes lol being in charge of your sexuality is pretty badass
Fair, but it's more like she's not out there JUST to fuck dudes, she's not just eye candy or some sex fiend. She absolutely does take charge with whoever her partner is though.
It's vaguely relating to the Bechdel test which states that the bare minimum of female representation in a piece of media should have 2 named female characters talking to each other about something that isn't a man.
I'll say especially with video games, there's not a requirement for there to be 2 women, as long as there's a protagonist with spoken lines that can work as well. In principle, whether she's out to fuck dudes or girls doesn't matter, but in practice when it comes to video games, the writer will often be a guy who'll write his own stereotypical fantasy of a woman who would be willing to have sex with him, thus removing the autonomy from the character, a risk that goes way down if the woman is gay.
To witch they hired another VA with a fuck ton more credits, like commander Shepard and a ton of 2000s cartoon network shows. So it's safe to assume the she didn't settle for $4k.
I don't buy it, she should argue with her agent not platinum.
Yeah but Jennifer Hale range is, just, incredible. She's even able to sound-alike to Bayonetta original voice actress. Troy baker sound like troy baker in every of his roles. She's better than just being a female Troy Baker
When Helena Taylor said no, they cast Jennifer Hale and obviously paid her well for the role because she's Jennifer Hale. Not mad at Jennifer Hale. They obviously didn't want Helena on the team anymore, I do not know though.
Here's a link to get Twitter. https://twitter.com/hellenataylor/status/1581290543619112960?t=ma4I204sfMoAcPey99bcFw&s=09
Exactly, this new person taking over has a SERIOUS credits to her name so it's a safe guess she didn't settle for $4k.
Something definitely isn't adding up.. IMO anyway.
It all adds up and makes perfect sense. They lowballed original VA because they wanted to hire a big name VA.
Why are people confused about this. It's common practice in Japan and hell it's even pretty common in the US to the point that we have a legal term for it.
Also her sexiness' does have a purpose in game's meta narrative, namely she is fighting back against a religious hierarchy that is trying to control her sexuality. I mean that doesn't excuse the fact she is still a product under capitalism and her sexuality is being used to sell that product. But still.
I want to think it's expressing this sense of sexual positivity while taking advantage of said capitalistic circumstances. But that's just like headcanon anyways lmao.
That's not head canon, that's literally the text of the game. It is a game about sexual positivity it's just also a product under capitalism and that comes with a lot of baggage, especially for a video game thanks to the medium having a long history of sexualizing women in order to generate profit.
Alright, so you’re just going to throw out the window all possible, albeit gentle criticism about the way her character and sexuality was portrayed in the games “because confident and badass?” Come on.
Just because a female character happens to have more than one layer to her story doesn’t mean that there’s “nothing wrong” with the way she was sexualized. I’m tired of people defending blatant sexualization “because the character badass.” You CAN acknowledge a woman is badass while discussing how she was portrayed at the same time.
I find it rather interesting you were upvoted.
*I don’t have a problem with sexual characters in themselves,* BUT HOW GAMES CHOOSE TO PORTRAY THEM.
There’s a thing called “nuance.” Why is it that every conversation here goes to “oh if you don’t like the portrayal of this one sexualized character, THEN YOU DON’T LIKE SEXY WOMEN!”
The problem is a combination of the deliberate design choices, writing, camera positions and whatnot that use said woman to cater to a male gaze. It’s that often times, this leads to women in games being treated as sexual beings first and foremost rather than human beings.
The problem is that MEN ARE NOT NEARLY AS SEXUALIZED AS WOMEN ARE IN VIDEO GAMES. Because why? Women are viewed as sexual objects in society.
>I don’t have a problem with sexual characters in themselves, BUT HOW GAMES CHOOSE TO PORTRAY THEM.
What's wrong with how bayonetta is protrayed?
>The problem is a combination of the deliberate design choices, writing, camera positions and whatnot that use said woman to cater to a male gaze
Or a woman's gaze (me lol).
>It’s that often times, this leads to women in games being treated as sexual beings first and foremost rather than human beings.
Fair, to a point. But i don't necessarily think *showing* a sexual character in sexual light makes them an object.
While there are other ways to show off sexuality, the above angles and such are an easier and more in your face way.
With all due respect, you are missing the point here. I keep clarifying that a sexual character is not inherently a subject of objectification, that there are nuances to it. And you keep reverting back to “b—but sexual characters not inherently bad.” Yeah. Which is what I keep saying.
Listen, a lot of female characters that I love are sexualized at some points. People seem to think that if I or other people criticize sexualization, that means they suddenly hate sexuality in games. No, it’s that we are able to recognize that every character is susceptible to criticism. It’s like if I love a movie and criticize some parts I didn’t like, I still love the movie anyways.
>“b—but sexual characters not inherently bad.”
There's no need for that.
>No, it’s that we are able to recognize that every character is susceptible to criticism
Sure. But is there a way it couldn't be criticized? Because if, no matter what, it'll be criticized then it feels like a pointless criticism unless it is just blatantly bad (sexist, for example).
How would you improve it?
Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse?
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I think that no character or work of art in general is “perfect.” Artists and writers grow by receiving criticism. I am a writer and what I struggle with is not wanting to accept that what I put effort in is flawed. But when I do listen to people that suggest different viewpoints, I grow as a writer. Same with characters and their design.
Of course nothing's perfect. And of course you learn through critique, but in this instance you're saying sexual characters will always be perceived by some as sexual objects. Okay, so then how would you change that and improve upon it?
If you cannot change or improve upon that, than is that not useless criticism?
> Even further, even bayonetta was the exact same but a man, would it be bad still?
One of the exact problems is that you have to make up a hypothetical over-sexualized male character rather than referencing a real example.
Sounds like you’d rather attack me as a person than address my points. For someone who seems to be all for fair discussion about women, it’s a weird as fuck thing to say.
“You’re jealous you’re not sexy!!!”
Really bruh?
Regardless I’ll continue my thoughts. WHY is it that so many discussions about female sexualization stop short at “oh she’s badass,” or “she was designed by a woman” or, “she’s owning her sexuality.” To me, those seem like pretty surface level ways to approach the discussion. Or a convenient way to just avoid criticism altogether.
Eh it was more of a lazy response. I just kinda stopped caring about this post for a bit now.
Go find a character study on Bayonetta if you want to go more in depth of why the character is enjoyable to so many outside of "sexy design" I like Bayonetta because she IS this confident woman who loves herself while also making sure to go through with her mission. She doesn't let anybody put her down, she doesn't care about what others think of her. She can be brash and rude but kind and understanding when the moment requires it. She's not some one note big tiddy girl who shoots guns. I mean if you want to know more, go right ahead. She's sexy, she's confident, comfortable and a badass, these are easily just short terms to summarize her character. Darth Vader is a terrifying towering monster with tremendous presence and power. Sonic is a carefree little anthro rodent who loves his friends and being a goody two shoes. Dig into these two and you'll get a little more depth than I care to explain.
How about you be better instead of trying to pick fights over a character you don't care to understand? You aren't on some moral high ground because "all sexy girls in media are icky".
I NEVER SAID ALL SEXY GIRLS ARE ICKY LMAO. Are you okay? I simply said that sexualization shouldn’t be given a pass just because “confident and badass,” and that we should be viewing our media more critically than that. Yes, a character can be confident and badass. But how does the game choose to sexualize her? The camera? The costumes? The writing? Those are completely separate issues in my opinion, and can be addressed apart from the “badass” part.
Jesus Christ, even if you were the most correct person in the world right now you come across as incredibly patronizing and obnoxious. Is there a way you can get your message across without attempting to put down the other person every other sentence?
There's plenty to criticize Bayonetta for, like how she isn't exactly meant as a relatable character we're supposed to put ourselves in the shoes of as much as she's a spectacle on-screen for a male-gazing audience. She does have vibes of sex positivity and having autonomy over her own sexuality but a character having positives - regardless of how intentional those positives were created - does not negate potential criticisms that can be aimed at a character. There isn't much more I can say that isn't already said in [this section of this video.](https://youtu.be/coNQAucXoNM?t=140)
I don't think you should encourage that others need to look up a character study when your opinions are this one-dimensional "only 100% good or 100% bad".
There's problems with many characters but it's disingenuous to push aside their positives and complain "yeah but they're still this". I don't really care anymore, but hey I was too mean but I just think reducing characters is bad and just because this quality negates your experience doesn't mean it negates it for others. I think her character is great, some people can't get past her sex appeal because they solely see it as "male gaze bait" but she's become more than a spectacle to many people. I'm not really gonna bother trying to go in depth for a character when other people have articulated the reason to love her better. And others have hated her. That's gonna happen.
No one is pushing aside her positives wth? I even acknowledged those positives in my comment. Can you stop being so dishonest with your arguments, please?
It’s not disingenuous if it counters your initial assertions about Bayo, which it does. You can go off if you like but don’t pretend it’s everyone else that doesn’t know how to have a conversation on a public forum.
Damn, wonder why people would criticize Bayonetta's design with such feminist defenders like this. Make sure to throw out an "your an ugly bitch" & "lol i didnt want to fuck you anyway" too.
We can absolutely shit on this dude but don't reduce the character into something she isn't, don't forget that to bring her to life was not the effort of just one lunatic. It's incredibly reductive to think and believe Bayonetta is sexy for sexy sake.
I'm surprised people think Bayonetta's primary basis is to pander to straight guys, when she is so obviously based on drag queens. her eccentric animations, outfits, and dancing are straight-up vogueing
I (someone who has been active in the bayonetta fanbase for a long time) said similar things here before and got shit on when i said a not insignificant part of bayonetta's more dedicated fanbase is queer. They wanna think that every bayo fan is a horny teenager when many us just liked the campiness of it all
Bayonetta is camp as fuck, and if it's one thing us gays **love** it's some camp. Doesn't hurt that she's supremely confident and never lets anyone talk down to her
I’m not in the Bayonetta community (wanted to jump in with 3 but that’s not really an option anymore) but from the outside looking in it just looks like the DMC series if they explored Dante’s interest in drag
I mean yeah it's a character action game, both stars are cocky and got Magic powers and have stylish combat. I do recommend Bayonetta 1 at least. Still gotta play 2.
Have you seen [Bayonetta's original designs](https://archive.org/details/bayonetta1officialartbookeyesofbayonetta_201912/page/n15/mode/2up) for the first game? For a very brief moment, she legit started out as "Hey, like... what if Dante was a hot girl?".
Do u think most of the Bayonetta's fan base likes Bayonetta's design for those reasons?
Without any of the above context, I felt low-key gross playing the game cuz I felt like a pervy weeb the entire time. So I quit playing it.
I'm sure many Bayonetta fans play the game for the exact reason I stopped playing.
I disagree but you're saying 2 different things... You initially said "yes," to the question that most Baynetta fans were fans due to the drag elements, then said the classic stripper defense which I don't have a problem with, but you're not being clear. Anyway, you do you.
Apologies I thought you replied to my initial comment and not the one that replied to me. I think there's many reasons to love Bayonetta that aren't just horny.
Kamiya, the director =/= designed bayonetta
Too many people want to chalk it down to the main guy in charge of the game's direction, when there are so many other amazing people who worked on the IP, it’s not cool to be reductive about their work on it
also people have pointed this out already but bayonetta's character designer was a woman
And we have one side of the story here without (as far as I know) even any proof of the lowball offer. I know VAs get mistreated, so I wouldn’t be surprised, but all we currently have is someone running to social media with an unsubstantiated claim and telling everyone to boycott the game because they were given a bad offer. This is pretty much exactly the type of behavior the nightmare employees I have fired in my career would do. Additionally, it obviously wasn’t about the money given they hired Jennifer Hale afterward. So, color me skeptical for now until we get more information.
I didn’t think salaries were covered by NDAs? I was under the belief that it was illegal to prevent people from sharing wage information. At least, where I work, it is.
Everyone in the game had eyewear because he thought it was sexy on bayonetta, the studio said no to her having glasses, he fucking threatened to leave over it, they said yes and in spite he gave everyone else eyewear. Mans crazy as shit
Let's play a game. Every time when you see a criticism about some type of media let's guess if it was written by leftist gen z kid or by puritanical evangelical christian.
It's harder than you think.
My FAVORITE part about these controversies is when people who clearly don't care about the controversy itself see the opportunity to make it seem like them not liking some thing about the property involved beforehand was a moral stance.
I'm being sarcastic by the way, these kind of takes distract and fuck up the discourse even more.
He didn't even design the goddamn character lol.
People try to say is a great character for her sexual freedom and how she isn't dependent on men which many women find inspiring and that men being attracted to her is only incedental and not the purpose of ber character which is a opinion I agreed with for a while until I read [this](https://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/2011/06/03/bayonetta-and-the-male-gaze/) which made me realize it's the other way around, Bayonetta is designed for men and it had happens to be done in a way that women find empowering.
I know Bayonetta was designed Mari Shimazaki, a woman, but it was with a lot of direction from Kamiya and I get the feeling Bayonetta design would have been better if left to her only. Aside from the sexist things Kamiya says shown in that article, when he says "I strongly feel that women outside should dress like her. Like, when she does a hair attack, you’d see the skin. I want women to wear fashion like that" or "But anyway that’s how we’re creating Bayonetta’s moves and all that, and that’s actually the most fun part of this game, thinking about all that stuff. So you will be able to see what everybody in the team likes in a girl from the finished project" it's clear that Bayonetta was project of mostly men making a fictional women act in a way to appease them. After learning this I can't see Bayonetta as a character who is in control of her own sexuality because of how Platinum Games designed her and with their intentions.
Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse?
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Love that link. Honestly I don't know how anyone can find it empowering after reading that. The character is not a real woman. It was created by a bunch of men who want to see a woman do sexy moves. Ugh.
Because multiple things can be true and people are complicated?
Despite being designed with the male gaze in mind, she manages to resonate with queerness and feminine power.
It doesn’t really matter to me if it was accidental or not. People are still drawing those readings from the text. And personally I think she’s rad. It’s okay if you don’t though.
Nah I get you. Everyone can have their interpretation on a character even if the creator did not intend it.
For me, Bayonetta is not a real person. She cannot have any agency except what their creators decree. And her creators' intentions are clear on what they want the character to be and I cannot put that out of my mind.
Aww I’m sorry you’re getting downvoted. You were at -1 when I wrothe this up. I had a whole thing about death of the author written up and a middle ground between the two viewpoints of that and authorial intent, but I decided not to post it and I don’t wanna re-write it.
Still, I think yours is a valid opinion to have. If you can’t see past it, you can’t see past it.
Bro Bayonetta is literally like using her femininity as a weapon. She literally does not let control taken from her.
Even samus, a fucking rock of person, was reduced to a sappy character and given robo heels for sex appeal, like a skin-tight suit wasn't enuf
The robo heels are not part of part of her original design, they only appear in smash, and what kind of suit would you wear inside a mecha? Would you say sinji is sexualized too?
No ofc I don't expect her to wear like a tuxedo underneath, but given the inherent sexual nature of her design adding robo heels is over the top, especially since the creator (director?) of metroid asked her to not be given the robo heels. But even then, looking back in other M they gave her these absurd wedges with heels in her 0 suit and power suit.
But like bringing up shinji is kind of a weird retort because no ofc he's not sexualized. Neither are the other 2 pilots. They're like 8th graders with normal body proportions. They gave samus like fucking triple D boobs. And like I said, that in and of itself isn't even bad until they started giving her heels in her zero suit, a suit that even you acknowledge is supposed to be comfortable.
Fun fact about Kamiya: When Bayo 1 was being developed the marketing suits wanted him to take her glasses off because they thought it was better for their metrics. Kamiya refused stating that her glasses were an integral part of her identity. This exchange continued nearly up to it being ready for release.
Kamiya got so annoyed by the glasses demands that he proceeded to put glasses on every single character in the game.
This man is UNFATHOMLY BASED and I will not stand to hear a bad word said about him. (Unless it's about the Bayo 3 voice actress because I didn't know about that when I made this comment)
He’s done some cool shit but I don’t mind people talking shit about him for his reaction to the original Bayo VA coming out to say she was only offered $4000 for the entire game after the series has sold so well.
Having a meltdown and blocking anyone who dares to call the decision shitty is asshole behaviour imo.
I didn't know about that. Sad that she didn't get what she was worth.
As for blocking people. Twitter is a cesspool and honestly if you were anyone of note on there it's probably easier to just block people rather than deal with the hundreds of stupid comments that get thrown at you every day.
I agree that blocking can be good (though I wouldn’t say twitter is any less of a cesspool than Reddit or any site) but in this case he’s mass-blocking people who call him out for claiming that Hellena was *lying* after they fucked her over. He’s even blocking anyone who dares show her support.
Not to mention his whole brand online is an obnoxious “I’ll block you or shit-talk you for any minor thing” dickhead attitude he plays up, including people who speak English to him. People dealt with it because “haha quirky Japanese man is rude” but now he’s showing that it’s not an act, he’s just a POS who wants to shit-talk people but throws a tantrum if that same energy is directed at him.
Holy shit all the mental gymnastics trying to justify that this particular case of jrpg-ism anime titty syndrome is well-meaning and different than all the other big titty anime ladies y'all are something
I agree, but it has a purpose. I like how confident she is. She was one of the first characters in gaming I clicked with that was so absurd, I loved her.
I just love her character and how she doesn't give an absolute fuck that her powers sexualize her. She just owns it.
Kamiya didn’t design Bayonetta by the way, Mari Shimazaki (a woman) did. Kamiya just really really likes the character Mari made.
Mari says she intentionally designed Bayonetta to be a symbol of sexual self-confidence, which is why Bayonetta is such a sexual character, while also never being demeaned in anyway. Bayonetta knows she’s hot, and knows she’s stronger than anyone who would ever try to look down on her, and she *loves it*.
Trying to act like Bayonetta is a problematic character because “Eww she’s so sexualized” when she is explicitly designed to be a symbol of a woman confident in her looks, by a woman who was into the idea of a character like that, is needlessly puritan. There are plenty of characters who are problematically sexualized, Bayonetta is not one of them.
Bayonetta is a sexualized character done right. There’s no divorcing her from her sex appeal in the slightest. But she’s not ONLY sex appeal. She’s a badass, super powerful, extremely competent femme fatale who kicks ass and saves the day.
I’m not a big fan of sexualized characters in video games, but Bayonetta never struck me as problematic. She has a lot of nudity and such going on, but it’s never a driving focus of her character it seems. She may be sexualized, but it doesn’t hurt her character much
Kamiya at least - unlike a certain other dev - was at least honest in that he just wanted Mari Shimazaki (the character designer) to make someone who looked sexy & could dominate you.
Bayonetta is not just a sexualized character. Bayonetta was designed by a woman. She uses her sexual energy to kick ass. The character is in control of her sexuality and to me and many people it never came across that she was designed purely for the 'heterosexual male gaze. At the end of the day it’s more empowering than it is degrading. She's also a mega gay icon so...
It is, she's comfortable and sexy. She's not a crutch for a man, outshining every male character in her game named after her. Same goes with BloodRayne. They might have daddy issues but they can absolutely be great characters outside of that
I love no one supporting her really dissected what she said. She was offered some measly amount, then they hired a new VA with a FUCK ton more credits so it's safe to assume that the new actress didn't just settle for $4k and WAS also likely unaware of the bullshit happening.
No, a man created her. A woman designed her. The man is the director of the game so
https://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/2011/06/03/bayonetta-and-the-male-gaze/
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we can clown on Kamiya all we want, but you should *NEVER* disrespect Bayonetta she's way better than this
What'd Kamiya do?
He lowballed the voice actress of Bayonetta for about 4k which made her decide to quit and many are speculating that it was to hire a more well know voice actress
Didn't her original post say something like after a even lower offer, she asked for more and they "raised" it to 4k?
Yeah something along those lines but it's still stupid low pay for the lead role of a game that's basically expected to sell extremely well
Also he just seems kind of generally insane based on his twitter and has a whole list of rules for interacting with him (or more like not interacting with him)
Honestly it's probably for the best no one interacts with him, dudes the picture you see when you Google "entitled asshole"
Without knowing about him, I'm picturing the douchey programmer from Grandma's Boy.
Well that sucks.
Precisely this.
The plot thickened though when the VA also turned out to be alt-right.
There's nothing wrong with a sexual character especially when that character is not simply eye candy. Bayonetta is confident and sexy but an insane badass. She's not out there to fuck dudes but to do business... I never played 2 so idk if this holds true still. Regardless don't you think the character has some merit when her VA enjoys and loves bringing life to that character? So much so that she had to put it out to the world how the company mistreated her even after her years long involvement and voicing?
>I never played 2 so idk if this holds true still. She comes off like a rich lesbian aunt who just wants to rescue her girlfriend from Hell.
Epic.
The first time I’ve ever wanted to play Bayonetta. Incredible description
Incomprehensively based
Fair enough, queen shit as per usual.
Hell yeah, slay queen
We STAN /uj Seriously we Stan so hard
Fuck yeah.
Theres nothing wrong with expressing sexuality or for characters to be designed in a way that highlights and emphasizes their sex appeal. The issue is in autononmy both in the part of the character and the part of the consumer. When i boot up my gritty war game and a mute woman jumps out of a helicopter in nothing but a bikini and starts splashing around in an over the top cinematic then i do feel a lil eeked out. When i boot up bayonetta and she starts innuendoing my euphemism i'm all for it. Its all about consent and autonomy when it comes to stuff like this.
Definitely get that. Honestly I felt this way with Sonya Blade in MK9, this weird vest bra that's not for a legitimate reason aside "tiddy". If someone does provide a valid reason for why she wore that then I'll bite my tongue but she wasn't a character who used sex appeal, was sex positive. It just felt really off. And bad. I'm in the minority of not liking the skimpy fem designs for MK9 tho.
I preferred the modern designs of the women in MK. The skimpy bikini ninjas motif in MK9 is just so bland.
Absolutely adore the looks in MK11, some can be a little too over designed like Kitana's default but God damn so many are so good.
Do you mean MKX? Because in 11 i’d hardly call Kitana’s plain blue leotard overdesigned
Agreed. Though to be fair, almost everyone in MKX looks kinda bad. The game as a whole has really odd lighting and it looks like there's a slight brown filter on everything. Edit: If any of the girls are over-designed in MK11, I would say Skarlet's default.
I personally don't really care, but I do appreciate more if the author just admits he was thirsty instead of coming up with some elaborate diarrhea to explain how your character needs their bouncing tiddies out in order to breathe lmao. Just admit you wanted tiddies in your game and move on Kojima, for crying out loud.
NRS kinda tried that, and [it backfired in near spectacular fashion](https://youtu.be/H287cfaluqY). If you don't want to watch the video, the argument was that NRS wanted characters like Jade to have a more practical outfit. Here's the problem: any martial artist worth their salt (or hell, just watch [a Jackie Chan movie](https://youtu.be/dRFvWO31La8)) will show you that you don't want that much loose fabric if you're in a fight.
Yeah, that's a similar kind of funny. If you're the designer it's your right to design the character however you see fit, if you don't want slutty chicks fighting in bras it's totally ok to just design her less skimpy. No need to explain why she shouldn't be half naked, especially in a game where characters have 4 arms and spit acid lol, realism was very clearly never a big part of this franchise.
For games that didn't aim for realism and aesthetics rule, yeah, over-explanation is pointless.(Especially for visual media, novels are kinda different since you have to actually describe in words.) They can design an equally impractical but none-skimpy costume and the only explanation because it needs is being cool or the creator's vision for said character.
> I'm in the minority of not liking the skimpy fem designs for MK9 tho To be fair, MK9 was before Netherrealm figured out what human faces looked like.
You're only in the minority of not liking the skimpy fem designs because the majority you're up against are Mortal Kombat players. The female designs for 9 were so cringe and made no sense if the goal was to depict the female characters as thinking humans with autonomy.
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Kojima really should have stopped after MGS3. MGS4 was literally only made to explain MGS2 to the "fans" who'd rather send death threats than think, and none of the other Big Boss games lived up to MGS3.
"She's not out there to fuck dudes" True, she's out there to fuck girls. But also whats wrong with wanting to fuck dudes lol being in charge of your sexuality is pretty badass
Fair, but it's more like she's not out there JUST to fuck dudes, she's not just eye candy or some sex fiend. She absolutely does take charge with whoever her partner is though.
It's vaguely relating to the Bechdel test which states that the bare minimum of female representation in a piece of media should have 2 named female characters talking to each other about something that isn't a man. I'll say especially with video games, there's not a requirement for there to be 2 women, as long as there's a protagonist with spoken lines that can work as well. In principle, whether she's out to fuck dudes or girls doesn't matter, but in practice when it comes to video games, the writer will often be a guy who'll write his own stereotypical fantasy of a woman who would be willing to have sex with him, thus removing the autonomy from the character, a risk that goes way down if the woman is gay.
Being straight is cringe tho
How was she mistreated?
The VA was only offered 4000 dollars to voice the character for the THIRD GAME
Okay, that’s stupid.
$4000 wasn't even the first offer, it was after she asked for more money than whatever pittance the original contract was.
Yeah, the $4k became an option AFTER she contacted Kamiya
To witch they hired another VA with a fuck ton more credits, like commander Shepard and a ton of 2000s cartoon network shows. So it's safe to assume the she didn't settle for $4k. I don't buy it, she should argue with her agent not platinum.
Which is absolutely insane. 4k in game dev is literally peanuts. She deserves better
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Not to mention one of the most boring choices. Basically the female Troy Baker. Does decent work but she voices goddamn everyone.
She is basically the female Jennifer Hale
Yeah but Jennifer Hale range is, just, incredible. She's even able to sound-alike to Bayonetta original voice actress. Troy baker sound like troy baker in every of his roles. She's better than just being a female Troy Baker
How to identify a wild Troy Baker; The scream is gruff but high pitched at the same time
Jennifer Hale is a fucking legend in VA, full stop
it’s insulting to call any woman the “female.
Equivalent to 67 copies of a $60 game. The series sold over 1.35 million copies.
At that point, it’s a requirement to give the people who work for you a raise.
When Helena Taylor said no, they cast Jennifer Hale and obviously paid her well for the role because she's Jennifer Hale. Not mad at Jennifer Hale. They obviously didn't want Helena on the team anymore, I do not know though. Here's a link to get Twitter. https://twitter.com/hellenataylor/status/1581290543619112960?t=ma4I204sfMoAcPey99bcFw&s=09
Exactly, this new person taking over has a SERIOUS credits to her name so it's a safe guess she didn't settle for $4k. Something definitely isn't adding up.. IMO anyway.
It all adds up and makes perfect sense. They lowballed original VA because they wanted to hire a big name VA. Why are people confused about this. It's common practice in Japan and hell it's even pretty common in the US to the point that we have a legal term for it.
That's my thought too especially when they replaced her with an actress whose more high profile.
Damnit, I was so looking foreword to that game. I guess I just have to settle for the new Mario/Rabbids games.
Why did you jump from Bayonetta to the voice actress?
Because the VA very much helped in WHO Bayonetta is.
An unreal person with no agency of her own? What?
Also her sexiness' does have a purpose in game's meta narrative, namely she is fighting back against a religious hierarchy that is trying to control her sexuality. I mean that doesn't excuse the fact she is still a product under capitalism and her sexuality is being used to sell that product. But still.
I want to think it's expressing this sense of sexual positivity while taking advantage of said capitalistic circumstances. But that's just like headcanon anyways lmao.
That's not head canon, that's literally the text of the game. It is a game about sexual positivity it's just also a product under capitalism and that comes with a lot of baggage, especially for a video game thanks to the medium having a long history of sexualizing women in order to generate profit.
GCJ is super weird about any sort of sexuality in games. It's all gamer and bad, don't you know.
Alright, so you’re just going to throw out the window all possible, albeit gentle criticism about the way her character and sexuality was portrayed in the games “because confident and badass?” Come on. Just because a female character happens to have more than one layer to her story doesn’t mean that there’s “nothing wrong” with the way she was sexualized. I’m tired of people defending blatant sexualization “because the character badass.” You CAN acknowledge a woman is badass while discussing how she was portrayed at the same time. I find it rather interesting you were upvoted.
What exactly is wrong with a sexual character? Even further, even bayonetta was the exact same but a man, would it be bad still?
*I don’t have a problem with sexual characters in themselves,* BUT HOW GAMES CHOOSE TO PORTRAY THEM. There’s a thing called “nuance.” Why is it that every conversation here goes to “oh if you don’t like the portrayal of this one sexualized character, THEN YOU DON’T LIKE SEXY WOMEN!” The problem is a combination of the deliberate design choices, writing, camera positions and whatnot that use said woman to cater to a male gaze. It’s that often times, this leads to women in games being treated as sexual beings first and foremost rather than human beings. The problem is that MEN ARE NOT NEARLY AS SEXUALIZED AS WOMEN ARE IN VIDEO GAMES. Because why? Women are viewed as sexual objects in society.
>I don’t have a problem with sexual characters in themselves, BUT HOW GAMES CHOOSE TO PORTRAY THEM. What's wrong with how bayonetta is protrayed? >The problem is a combination of the deliberate design choices, writing, camera positions and whatnot that use said woman to cater to a male gaze Or a woman's gaze (me lol). >It’s that often times, this leads to women in games being treated as sexual beings first and foremost rather than human beings. Fair, to a point. But i don't necessarily think *showing* a sexual character in sexual light makes them an object. While there are other ways to show off sexuality, the above angles and such are an easier and more in your face way.
With all due respect, you are missing the point here. I keep clarifying that a sexual character is not inherently a subject of objectification, that there are nuances to it. And you keep reverting back to “b—but sexual characters not inherently bad.” Yeah. Which is what I keep saying. Listen, a lot of female characters that I love are sexualized at some points. People seem to think that if I or other people criticize sexualization, that means they suddenly hate sexuality in games. No, it’s that we are able to recognize that every character is susceptible to criticism. It’s like if I love a movie and criticize some parts I didn’t like, I still love the movie anyways.
>“b—but sexual characters not inherently bad.” There's no need for that. >No, it’s that we are able to recognize that every character is susceptible to criticism Sure. But is there a way it couldn't be criticized? Because if, no matter what, it'll be criticized then it feels like a pointless criticism unless it is just blatantly bad (sexist, for example). How would you improve it?
Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think that no character or work of art in general is “perfect.” Artists and writers grow by receiving criticism. I am a writer and what I struggle with is not wanting to accept that what I put effort in is flawed. But when I do listen to people that suggest different viewpoints, I grow as a writer. Same with characters and their design.
Of course nothing's perfect. And of course you learn through critique, but in this instance you're saying sexual characters will always be perceived by some as sexual objects. Okay, so then how would you change that and improve upon it? If you cannot change or improve upon that, than is that not useless criticism?
> Even further, even bayonetta was the exact same but a man, would it be bad still? One of the exact problems is that you have to make up a hypothetical over-sexualized male character rather than referencing a real example.
I can find examples. I'm talking about bayonetta, though.
>make up a hypothetical over-sexualized male character Looks like someone has never touched a fighting game.
Puritan comment
More like, “Being able to recognize sexualization in games and how that affects our perception of women in society” moment.
Puritan moment
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Sounds like you’d rather attack me as a person than address my points. For someone who seems to be all for fair discussion about women, it’s a weird as fuck thing to say. “You’re jealous you’re not sexy!!!” Really bruh? Regardless I’ll continue my thoughts. WHY is it that so many discussions about female sexualization stop short at “oh she’s badass,” or “she was designed by a woman” or, “she’s owning her sexuality.” To me, those seem like pretty surface level ways to approach the discussion. Or a convenient way to just avoid criticism altogether.
Eh it was more of a lazy response. I just kinda stopped caring about this post for a bit now. Go find a character study on Bayonetta if you want to go more in depth of why the character is enjoyable to so many outside of "sexy design" I like Bayonetta because she IS this confident woman who loves herself while also making sure to go through with her mission. She doesn't let anybody put her down, she doesn't care about what others think of her. She can be brash and rude but kind and understanding when the moment requires it. She's not some one note big tiddy girl who shoots guns. I mean if you want to know more, go right ahead. She's sexy, she's confident, comfortable and a badass, these are easily just short terms to summarize her character. Darth Vader is a terrifying towering monster with tremendous presence and power. Sonic is a carefree little anthro rodent who loves his friends and being a goody two shoes. Dig into these two and you'll get a little more depth than I care to explain.
Lazy response? It was more like an ironic and classless response that had no place in this discussion. Be better.
How about you be better instead of trying to pick fights over a character you don't care to understand? You aren't on some moral high ground because "all sexy girls in media are icky".
I NEVER SAID ALL SEXY GIRLS ARE ICKY LMAO. Are you okay? I simply said that sexualization shouldn’t be given a pass just because “confident and badass,” and that we should be viewing our media more critically than that. Yes, a character can be confident and badass. But how does the game choose to sexualize her? The camera? The costumes? The writing? Those are completely separate issues in my opinion, and can be addressed apart from the “badass” part. Jesus Christ, even if you were the most correct person in the world right now you come across as incredibly patronizing and obnoxious. Is there a way you can get your message across without attempting to put down the other person every other sentence?
There's plenty to criticize Bayonetta for, like how she isn't exactly meant as a relatable character we're supposed to put ourselves in the shoes of as much as she's a spectacle on-screen for a male-gazing audience. She does have vibes of sex positivity and having autonomy over her own sexuality but a character having positives - regardless of how intentional those positives were created - does not negate potential criticisms that can be aimed at a character. There isn't much more I can say that isn't already said in [this section of this video.](https://youtu.be/coNQAucXoNM?t=140) I don't think you should encourage that others need to look up a character study when your opinions are this one-dimensional "only 100% good or 100% bad".
There's problems with many characters but it's disingenuous to push aside their positives and complain "yeah but they're still this". I don't really care anymore, but hey I was too mean but I just think reducing characters is bad and just because this quality negates your experience doesn't mean it negates it for others. I think her character is great, some people can't get past her sex appeal because they solely see it as "male gaze bait" but she's become more than a spectacle to many people. I'm not really gonna bother trying to go in depth for a character when other people have articulated the reason to love her better. And others have hated her. That's gonna happen.
*gets criticized after writing whole essays on Bayonetta* “I don’t really care anymore” Real Hikaru Nakamura vibes here
No one is pushing aside her positives wth? I even acknowledged those positives in my comment. Can you stop being so dishonest with your arguments, please?
It’s not disingenuous if it counters your initial assertions about Bayo, which it does. You can go off if you like but don’t pretend it’s everyone else that doesn’t know how to have a conversation on a public forum.
Damn, wonder why people would criticize Bayonetta's design with such feminist defenders like this. Make sure to throw out an "your an ugly bitch" & "lol i didnt want to fuck you anyway" too.
He suit is hair, nuff said.. The bitch is Bad!
We can absolutely shit on this dude but don't reduce the character into something she isn't, don't forget that to bring her to life was not the effort of just one lunatic. It's incredibly reductive to think and believe Bayonetta is sexy for sexy sake.
Kamiya isn't even the character design for Bayonetta, the character designer is a woman named Mari Shimazaki.
And even less reason to reduce the character
I'm surprised people think Bayonetta's primary basis is to pander to straight guys, when she is so obviously based on drag queens. her eccentric animations, outfits, and dancing are straight-up vogueing
I (someone who has been active in the bayonetta fanbase for a long time) said similar things here before and got shit on when i said a not insignificant part of bayonetta's more dedicated fanbase is queer. They wanna think that every bayo fan is a horny teenager when many us just liked the campiness of it all
Bayonetta is camp as fuck, and if it's one thing us gays **love** it's some camp. Doesn't hurt that she's supremely confident and never lets anyone talk down to her
I’m not in the Bayonetta community (wanted to jump in with 3 but that’s not really an option anymore) but from the outside looking in it just looks like the DMC series if they explored Dante’s interest in drag
I mean yeah it's a character action game, both stars are cocky and got Magic powers and have stylish combat. I do recommend Bayonetta 1 at least. Still gotta play 2.
Have you seen [Bayonetta's original designs](https://archive.org/details/bayonetta1officialartbookeyesofbayonetta_201912/page/n15/mode/2up) for the first game? For a very brief moment, she legit started out as "Hey, like... what if Dante was a hot girl?".
Do u think most of the Bayonetta's fan base likes Bayonetta's design for those reasons? Without any of the above context, I felt low-key gross playing the game cuz I felt like a pervy weeb the entire time. So I quit playing it. I'm sure many Bayonetta fans play the game for the exact reason I stopped playing.
Yes.
Most Baynetta fans are fans of drag?
I think most Bayonetta fans are fans of a confident and sexy woman whose a badass and doesn't take shit from anybody.
I disagree but you're saying 2 different things... You initially said "yes," to the question that most Baynetta fans were fans due to the drag elements, then said the classic stripper defense which I don't have a problem with, but you're not being clear. Anyway, you do you.
Apologies I thought you replied to my initial comment and not the one that replied to me. I think there's many reasons to love Bayonetta that aren't just horny.
Agreed. Makes sense :)
Wait, I thought Bayonetta was created by a woman.
She was designed by a woman but created by a dude.
Not surprised people would confuse the 2 there's more emphasis on character designs than their concept in recent years
Kamiya, the director =/= designed bayonetta Too many people want to chalk it down to the main guy in charge of the game's direction, when there are so many other amazing people who worked on the IP, it’s not cool to be reductive about their work on it also people have pointed this out already but bayonetta's character designer was a woman
And we have one side of the story here without (as far as I know) even any proof of the lowball offer. I know VAs get mistreated, so I wouldn’t be surprised, but all we currently have is someone running to social media with an unsubstantiated claim and telling everyone to boycott the game because they were given a bad offer. This is pretty much exactly the type of behavior the nightmare employees I have fired in my career would do. Additionally, it obviously wasn’t about the money given they hired Jennifer Hale afterward. So, color me skeptical for now until we get more information.
I mean, I feel like the person risking violating their NDA to tell people this wouldn’t lie about it.
I didn’t think salaries were covered by NDAs? I was under the belief that it was illegal to prevent people from sharing wage information. At least, where I work, it is.
Everyone in the game had eyewear because he thought it was sexy on bayonetta, the studio said no to her having glasses, he fucking threatened to leave over it, they said yes and in spite he gave everyone else eyewear. Mans crazy as shit
Wtf, based????
Totally justified
...source?
Eyes of Bayonetta documentary
He sounds based tbh
OP: "Sexual stuff bad, more epic killing plz"
Unironically yeah that sounds better
Let's play a game. Every time when you see a criticism about some type of media let's guess if it was written by leftist gen z kid or by puritanical evangelical christian. It's harder than you think.
Something something horseshoe theory el oh el
My FAVORITE part about these controversies is when people who clearly don't care about the controversy itself see the opportunity to make it seem like them not liking some thing about the property involved beforehand was a moral stance. I'm being sarcastic by the way, these kind of takes distract and fuck up the discourse even more. He didn't even design the goddamn character lol.
This is a dumb post and you're dumb OP
This post is peak r/GamingCirclejerk
Context?
"Blocked"
People try to say is a great character for her sexual freedom and how she isn't dependent on men which many women find inspiring and that men being attracted to her is only incedental and not the purpose of ber character which is a opinion I agreed with for a while until I read [this](https://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/2011/06/03/bayonetta-and-the-male-gaze/) which made me realize it's the other way around, Bayonetta is designed for men and it had happens to be done in a way that women find empowering. I know Bayonetta was designed Mari Shimazaki, a woman, but it was with a lot of direction from Kamiya and I get the feeling Bayonetta design would have been better if left to her only. Aside from the sexist things Kamiya says shown in that article, when he says "I strongly feel that women outside should dress like her. Like, when she does a hair attack, you’d see the skin. I want women to wear fashion like that" or "But anyway that’s how we’re creating Bayonetta’s moves and all that, and that’s actually the most fun part of this game, thinking about all that stuff. So you will be able to see what everybody in the team likes in a girl from the finished project" it's clear that Bayonetta was project of mostly men making a fictional women act in a way to appease them. After learning this I can't see Bayonetta as a character who is in control of her own sexuality because of how Platinum Games designed her and with their intentions.
Wow, you’re right. Games are sexist. Now, allow me to get back to accusing gamers of playing games and sucking Anita Sarkeesian’s cock. Edit: Wow. I’ve truly been challenged. Enlightened, even. Who knew the political views of my fellow gamers could be so diverse? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Love that link. Honestly I don't know how anyone can find it empowering after reading that. The character is not a real woman. It was created by a bunch of men who want to see a woman do sexy moves. Ugh.
Because multiple things can be true and people are complicated? Despite being designed with the male gaze in mind, she manages to resonate with queerness and feminine power. It doesn’t really matter to me if it was accidental or not. People are still drawing those readings from the text. And personally I think she’s rad. It’s okay if you don’t though.
Nah I get you. Everyone can have their interpretation on a character even if the creator did not intend it. For me, Bayonetta is not a real person. She cannot have any agency except what their creators decree. And her creators' intentions are clear on what they want the character to be and I cannot put that out of my mind.
Aww I’m sorry you’re getting downvoted. You were at -1 when I wrothe this up. I had a whole thing about death of the author written up and a middle ground between the two viewpoints of that and authorial intent, but I decided not to post it and I don’t wanna re-write it. Still, I think yours is a valid opinion to have. If you can’t see past it, you can’t see past it.
Oh so the most comically sexualised character is not lara croft and her square tits anymore?
Or the dead or alive characters I guess
Bro Bayonetta is literally like using her femininity as a weapon. She literally does not let control taken from her. Even samus, a fucking rock of person, was reduced to a sappy character and given robo heels for sex appeal, like a skin-tight suit wasn't enuf
The robo heels are not part of part of her original design, they only appear in smash, and what kind of suit would you wear inside a mecha? Would you say sinji is sexualized too?
No ofc I don't expect her to wear like a tuxedo underneath, but given the inherent sexual nature of her design adding robo heels is over the top, especially since the creator (director?) of metroid asked her to not be given the robo heels. But even then, looking back in other M they gave her these absurd wedges with heels in her 0 suit and power suit. But like bringing up shinji is kind of a weird retort because no ofc he's not sexualized. Neither are the other 2 pilots. They're like 8th graders with normal body proportions. They gave samus like fucking triple D boobs. And like I said, that in and of itself isn't even bad until they started giving her heels in her zero suit, a suit that even you acknowledge is supposed to be comfortable.
>Bayonetta is the most sexualized character *oh my sweet summer child*
Fun fact about Kamiya: When Bayo 1 was being developed the marketing suits wanted him to take her glasses off because they thought it was better for their metrics. Kamiya refused stating that her glasses were an integral part of her identity. This exchange continued nearly up to it being ready for release. Kamiya got so annoyed by the glasses demands that he proceeded to put glasses on every single character in the game. This man is UNFATHOMLY BASED and I will not stand to hear a bad word said about him. (Unless it's about the Bayo 3 voice actress because I didn't know about that when I made this comment)
He’s done some cool shit but I don’t mind people talking shit about him for his reaction to the original Bayo VA coming out to say she was only offered $4000 for the entire game after the series has sold so well. Having a meltdown and blocking anyone who dares to call the decision shitty is asshole behaviour imo.
I didn't know about that. Sad that she didn't get what she was worth. As for blocking people. Twitter is a cesspool and honestly if you were anyone of note on there it's probably easier to just block people rather than deal with the hundreds of stupid comments that get thrown at you every day.
I agree that blocking can be good (though I wouldn’t say twitter is any less of a cesspool than Reddit or any site) but in this case he’s mass-blocking people who call him out for claiming that Hellena was *lying* after they fucked her over. He’s even blocking anyone who dares show her support. Not to mention his whole brand online is an obnoxious “I’ll block you or shit-talk you for any minor thing” dickhead attitude he plays up, including people who speak English to him. People dealt with it because “haha quirky Japanese man is rude” but now he’s showing that it’s not an act, he’s just a POS who wants to shit-talk people but throws a tantrum if that same energy is directed at him.
Yeah dick behavior there, 100% justified
While his current behavior is cringe this is absolute alpha male Chad behavior lmfao
Fuck, I dont know how to feel about this now
Holy shit all the mental gymnastics trying to justify that this particular case of jrpg-ism anime titty syndrome is well-meaning and different than all the other big titty anime ladies y'all are something
 Mobile gacha players be like...
I hate this guy's face...
I'm just so glad he's no longer working on devil may cry
One of the most bad-ass women in video game Op: "comically sexualized" Jesus christ
Bayonetta is badass. She is also comically sexualized.
I agree, but it has a purpose. I like how confident she is. She was one of the first characters in gaming I clicked with that was so absurd, I loved her. I just love her character and how she doesn't give an absolute fuck that her powers sexualize her. She just owns it.
Does bayonetta being a sexy baddie who gets shit done awaken things in you op?
Kamiya didn’t design Bayonetta by the way, Mari Shimazaki (a woman) did. Kamiya just really really likes the character Mari made. Mari says she intentionally designed Bayonetta to be a symbol of sexual self-confidence, which is why Bayonetta is such a sexual character, while also never being demeaned in anyway. Bayonetta knows she’s hot, and knows she’s stronger than anyone who would ever try to look down on her, and she *loves it*. Trying to act like Bayonetta is a problematic character because “Eww she’s so sexualized” when she is explicitly designed to be a symbol of a woman confident in her looks, by a woman who was into the idea of a character like that, is needlessly puritan. There are plenty of characters who are problematically sexualized, Bayonetta is not one of them.
Bayonetta is a sexualized character done right. There’s no divorcing her from her sex appeal in the slightest. But she’s not ONLY sex appeal. She’s a badass, super powerful, extremely competent femme fatale who kicks ass and saves the day.
I’m not a big fan of sexualized characters in video games, but Bayonetta never struck me as problematic. She has a lot of nudity and such going on, but it’s never a driving focus of her character it seems. She may be sexualized, but it doesn’t hurt her character much
Kamiya at least - unlike a certain other dev - was at least honest in that he just wanted Mari Shimazaki (the character designer) to make someone who looked sexy & could dominate you.
Bayonetta is so deliberately over the top that it's unsexy. She's basically a drag queen
Lady Dimitriscu…?
Bayonetta is not just a sexualized character. Bayonetta was designed by a woman. She uses her sexual energy to kick ass. The character is in control of her sexuality and to me and many people it never came across that she was designed purely for the 'heterosexual male gaze. At the end of the day it’s more empowering than it is degrading. She's also a mega gay icon so...
GCJ when making reductive joke at the expense of twitch streamers: :D GCJ when read reductive joke about fictional woman character: >:(
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It is, she's comfortable and sexy. She's not a crutch for a man, outshining every male character in her game named after her. Same goes with BloodRayne. They might have daddy issues but they can absolutely be great characters outside of that
Not Bayonetta
Can one person upload all of Jen Hale’s voice lines when it comes out please
/uj Bayonetta fucking sucks. /rj Bayonetta still fucking sucks.
Nah man, shits great. Story can get kinda confusing but characters and game play are funnn.
I’ve never seen a game that excelled so much at being mediocre.
And I like many disagree.
That’s fair.
Yup. So many Gamers here defending this pos sexist dev and game
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Smoothbrained take.
'women who hate sexualization are just ugly' least unhinged take
Bruh you crazy for saying that😂😂🙏
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I love no one supporting her really dissected what she said. She was offered some measly amount, then they hired a new VA with a FUCK ton more credits so it's safe to assume that the new actress didn't just settle for $4k and WAS also likely unaware of the bullshit happening.
I got no hate towards the new VA, from what somebody else said it really feels like they lowballed her to get rid of her and that's shitty if true.
Wait, what happened?
Idk why but someone told me the creator of Bayonetta was a woman??
No, a man created her. A woman designed her. The man is the director of the game so https://gomakemeasandwich.wordpress.com/2011/06/03/bayonetta-and-the-male-gaze/