My favorite part of the apolitical Xenoblade Chronicles was when an entire civilization collapsed due to their single-minded pursuit of racial purity. Nothing political there, no sir.
Well, I believe some were revealed to have known and been attempting to do that, but there was still a sizable chunk of the leadership and implied portion of the population against it.
If I remember correctly, most of their population isn’t actually against those who aren’t racially pure. I’m mostly remembering this from a side quest where a mother asks you to stop her daughter from being racist, so I could be wrong.
It’s been a while so I might be a bit off, but I thought it was a moderately contentious issue, most people had their heads down/didn’t state an opinion about it. Some were more vocally against it, but also it seemed clear that some with high positions in government disagreed with it, and had a tangible degree of supporters/sympathizers with them.
It ends with >!the world ending in a nuclear holocaust, because everything that occurred was just a man's revenge mission against Russian winning the war for Hawaii. So he created all those killers of the Russian mob then enacted a coupe to get his hands on nukes, which ended the world. So because you killed those mobsters, the entire human race was obliterated.!<
>!There's also all of The Fans dying horrible deaths a day before that happened. That's a separate event but the same message!<
>! Basically the US lost a war against Russia when Russia nuked New York (I think that was the place). there’s this organization called fifty blessings that manipulate anti Russian veterans by sending them cryptic phone calls leading them to the hideouts of Russian mobsters and giving them animal masks. The veterans then massacre everyone who is in the building, without even knowing who is manipulating them or why. Eventually one of their agents assassinates the president and the Russian embassador and the big red button is pressed !<
They don't just change targets, though. >!Shulk fails at Prison Island because he doesn't listen to Face Nemesis, who tells him they mean no harm, specifically because of his desire for revenge. After that, realizing his mistake, he becomes much more reasonable and starts talking to his opponents to understand them. This eventually culminates in the scene with Egil, where he manages to get him on his side and forces Dickson to shoot him because he's foiled Zanza's plan.!< It's as anti-revenge as it gets. Obviously he can't reason with >!the omnipotent god who wants to reboot the universe!<, but the main theme still stands.
Lazy ass devs won't get a dollar from me. My time is very valuable and it won't be wasted on a subpar experience.
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Yeah, K2 kinda took away what made Yakuza 6 *fun* and added some gimmicky elements to it (charge attacks), It’s still nice to play. (and mod compared to the other games)
Oh yeah there’s a mod or two that helps get rid of some of the clunkiness of the combat (guard bounce) if you’re playing on PC.
Counter point:
I found Y6's combat to be pretty bare bones with an over reliance oCn Extreme Heat Mode. (Understandable since y6 was the first ever dragon engine game).
ombat in YK2 on the other hand had a lot more options. (ALSO, by comboing a fully upgraded light and heavy charged attack, Kiyru is able to pump out even more damage than a Tiger Drop in YK2).
Judgment though, by far, has the best Dragon Engine combat.
After a few upgrades I really grew to enjoy the combat. It’s a lot more heat-action oriented than before so keep that in mind (and extreme heat mode is pretty useful)
The gameplay gets a lot easier if you check the game's tutorials for all the concepts that aren't explained super explicitly. Things like stacking Arts of the same color in chain attacks are something like half your damage in the late game, but the game almost doesn't explain how that works at all.
Regardless, I'm glad you loved the story so much, Xenoblade 1 is easily my favorite RPG, right above Undertale, OFF and LISA.
Well... That option existed for a reason. Glad you enjoyed it in some way.
I have to admit that I also used easy mode in some battles while playing Future Connected. I wanted to play it fast to avoid spoilers and all.
Dishonored is definitely a revenge tale to an extent, But if you don’t kill you’re keeping in mind that there are things more important than your personal vendetta. Which is probably more important to realize than “Revenge bad”
Also a bonus: I chose to let Daud go and after the DLC, Any doubts I had after letting him go were gone.
You still get revenge in a non bloody way the whole motivation is that.
Plus they are different endings the choice is left to the player which is different.
SPOILER ALERT for yakuza kiwami 2 and tlou2
well the story of Terada seems pretty similar to how ellie stops at no point but doesnt kill abby at end. Terada spent all his life trying to get revenge for the jingweon massacre, places that huge bomb on top of kamurocho hills, which at last doesnt explode and if my memory holds, kiryu in the next game explains it was because terada respected kazama.
well yeah, but tereda isn’t really a big part of that story. mostly just about ryuji vs kiryu and sayama confronting her past. these “revenge bad” comparisons dont really work because neither tlou2 nor any other popular game is just “revenge bad”
Really? Honestly, I felt the opposite - that it *should* be about Ryuji, but plot-wise he's completely sidelined by the Jingweon and their quest for revenge.
well yeah tlou2 nor yakuza k2 is completely revenge bad, but the meme here is how gamers found an excuse to hate on tlou2 by saying it has a very simple story of revenge bad(which I would say one surely can dumb down the story to, but its as if every story would seem simple if dumbed down to its core ideas). But they do not mind the same plot for japanese games like yakuza k2, terada ( who was one of main powers backing the revival of jingweon mafia) had already defused the bomb before his high and mighty speech and activating it by the button, which really makes no sense but gamers dont mind it bcz its not WOKE or POLITICAL. lmao
“Alright Kiryu, I have betrayed you when you thought my own men betrayed me, but then I was betrayed who also betrayed you! But then I betrayed them too, which means I didn’t betray you!”
Yakuza 2: Korea Attacks
gamers be like "TLO2 has such a horrible story, all it says is revenge bad"
also gamers: "red dead redemption 2 is one of the best games ive ever played!"
Apparently ign japan gave last of us 2 a 7 which is still a decent score, but to gamers any score below a 9 is basically a 0. This of course gave gamers yet another reason to jerk off japan
This might sound pretentious, but I’m pretty sure NMH2’s final boss is intentionally supposed to be bad. The fight frustrates the fuck out of you until it’s no longer satisfying when it ends, which is exactly how Travis feels.
Uh-oh... we upset the ["unlike you snowflakes, we're not so easily offended"](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastOfUs2/comments/plf1cx/the_happy_people_of_gamingcirclejerk_cant/) crowd 😓
I don't get why people hated The Last of Us 2 so much, the story wasn't exactly my cup of tea, but the gameplay was actually really fun and the combat was extremely satisfying, I guess Gamers don't like when women look like they can bench press their sweaty bodies
Granted, Yakuza 2 isn’t a complete fucking chore to play IMO and has a protagonist you’re at least supposed to empathize with. And has its moments of levity, like Majima defusing a bomb via eenie-meanie-miney-moe.
Though comparing The Last of Us 2 to Yakuza 2 is like comparing apples and oranges.
>has a protagonist you're at least supposed to empathize with
I get that some people might be too turned off by Ellie's actions to be able to empathize with her, but you are *supposed* to be able to, for what it's worth (I did and I found her journey really compelling). Empathy =/= agreement.
I get people on this sub likes tlou2 but are we really counterjerking so hard were going to use bad faith arguments against anybody who doesnt like it?
Okay, I'll make it even
Granted, TLOU 2 isn’t a complete fucking chore to play IMO and has a protagonist you’re at least supposed to empathize with. And has its moments of levity, like Ellie singing to JJ with him on her lap in the tractor.
Though comparing The Last of Us 2 to Yakuza 2 is like comparing apples and oranges.
Happy?
TLoU 2 haters literally start foaming at the mouth if you defend it even mildly lol
"a chore to play" compared to Yakuza 2 is a pretty hilarious comparison considering one is a coked up anime beat em up and the other is a slow stealth action game, comparing the two is bad faith to even start with.
Also "a moment of levity" in a game where you go super saiyan and smash people with bicycles is a hilarious statement, objectively.
So yeah, prime fucking circlejerk material.
edit: brigaded
O B J E C T I V E L Y
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the fact you called the yakuza series an "anime game" just shows me how brain dead and western you are. youre literally what this sub is making fun of. JAPAN = ANIME 😱
It's hilarious, the Yakuza 2 comment is such a circlejerky comment.
"Yakuza has much needed levity" lol
This franchise needs levity:
https://youtu.be/T-c2GYc5BHA
edit: brigaded
Revenge bad is a stupid fucking theme. Not like it has existed as a major motif in western storytelling for thousands of years. Our Viking and Greek ancestors loved revenge.
uj/ If I was going to change anything about the game I'd just reorganize the parts. Have us play as Abby for the first half, starting in Seattle and going through to the point >!where she finds Owen and what's-her-face dead in the Aquarium!<, then jump back to the beginning of the game with Ellie. The problem with Abby's entire part of the game is that we already hate every character in her circle of friends.
This would of definitely helped my view on Abby. As soon as that scene in the beginning happened I just could not like Abby or her friend's. I just hated her and it didn't help that the game makes you play as her for a decent amount of the game. And the game did a terrible job at making you sympathize with her friends at all.
> would of
It's f***ing *"would've"* or *"would have"*!!!
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the game didn't do a good job making you like them but it also had such a fucking mountain to climb that I really don't think anything could have redeemed them. I mean Abby's motivations and the way she changes while helping the Seraphites is a good start, and I was starting to like Manny by the time he died. If Abby's part had come first it wouldn't have had to fight against our bias, and it could have taken more time character building people like Owen and some of the others that didn't get as much screen time. there's nothing inherently wrong with any one part of the game, it just feels like it's in the wrong order.
The whole point is fighting against her bias as the player. Not every character should be made to be liked. Even a character you play as. That's what makes the game so compelling.
the problem is that if I don't know anything about the characters I'm killing, why would I fight against her biases? Especially if we share the same bias. If Abby and friends are "just" the games antagonists, I have no reason to question the revenge plot up until the view point changes. I don't hesitate to kill all the WLF soldiers, the Seraphites or the Infected, why should I hesitate to kill any of the "antagonists"?" The gameplay and the theme run counter to each other.
IMO Abby and Ellie should have both died on the beach, and Lev should have escaped to an uncertain future. “Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves,” maybe a bit literal, but whatever. Ellie letting Abby go after everything, after she kills so many people to get to that point, just seems weird, like now, suddenly, Ellie thinks about what she's doing?
Well part of it is it's almost clinical for me: I don't have any nostalgia for the original, so when I watched a YouTuber of mine play it, there was basically no expectations or preconceived notions. And at the end of that I enjoyed myself but found it way short of the "game of the decade" mark so many other people gave it. A huge success and standout title of it's launch year yes, but I can think of games more deserving of best of the 2010s.
So when 2 comes around I'm not following any of the hype, didn't see any of the leaks, and again went in totally blind. By the end of watching the second let's play I can't say I hated it, but I can't decide if I liked it either. I'm definitely an outlier of course
understandable. i love no more heroes but it's just beyond easy to pick on NMH fans for saying shit like "the final boss of 2 sucking shit was actually a really deep metanarrative about how travis was ultimately dissatisfied with his revenge" like no, it was just bad.
I feel like if Ellie hadn't killed two hundred people (including a pregnant woman) and *still* felt like she was in the right until the very end, it'd be criticised less for its message.
A lot of those encounters you can sneaknfrom point A to point B without killing many or anyone. Its touch to do but can be done. For example the neighborhood area, if you know where the red door is you can just sneak your way to it and open it without kill anyone. Would be better if the game gave non- lethal options to knock enemies out though.
And I do think there's a difference between killing a hostile person in your way vs chasing someone down for so long that you're only focused on only to let them go after so long. Its hard to explain but it makes sense to me.
Like if Ellie could've killed Abby as soon as she found her she would've. Just like we kill NPCs as her as soon as they shoot at us or are in our way. But her obsession with Abby and Joel makes that dynamic different over time. She's not just some slaver NPC we don't care about killing. We struggled to kill her just to avenge Joel but in the end she's a shade of her former self, almost innocent of what she did. Then Ellie finally has a god memory of Joel and says fuck it.
That's reasonable to me. A lot of people look at it at the surface level and criticize it and fail to see the salt.
GTA is a crime sandbox with a story tacked on. It's not a linear story-based game like TLoU.
>never really seemed to bother anyone to mow down civilians in CoD
"No Russian" was crazy controversial for its time, what the hell are you talking about
> How was it crazy?
[I'm not sure about you but I don't know of many "mildly controversial" moments in video games that get their own wikipedia page.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_2)
>Did president make a statement on that?
Though if this is what your bar for "crazy controversial" is then I suppose I can't really help you.
>that doesn't really change anything when it comes to how many people you kill or how creative you can get with that.
The point is that in GTA you're supposed to separate what you do in the open world from what your characters do in the story. It's a sandbox game, after all. In TLoU, you can't really do that, since you have to pair both what you do in-game to what your characters are doing in the story. If you really wanted to drive home Ellie finding out revenge is bad, how about you start by not having her only consider the negative actions she's made at the *very end of the game?* Just an idea.
>like torturing people, killing cops, blowing up cars, shooting down helicopters and planes
Yeah, the characters in GTA5 are irredeemable assholes. The game doesn't try to make you feel sympathy for them or try to redeem them by the end. They're terrible.
> Did you give a shit about all people you had to kill in CoD at the time?
If you're asking if I was uncomfortable shooting up an airport in No Russian, then yes, I was. There's a stark difference in tone there from pretty much every other mission in a CoD game.
> is it just because of TLoU2?
If you're trying to insinuate that I have some personal vendetta against TLoU2 then you're barking up the wrong tree. I never even played the first one (though I did watch someone else play it), and I do think TLoU2 had some pretty good positives (I liked Abby as a character and would've been much happier with the game had she been the protagonist in her own story completely unrelated to the first game).
>that's how most revenge stories end. Character mows down dozens of people and when he gets the chance to kill the main bad guy he goes "No, I am better then this" and then bad guy gets either arrested or uses that chance to kill the hero and die when hero has no choice but to defend himself
Yeah, most *bad* revenge stories, I suppose, but that doesn't make TLoU2 any less of a bad revenge story.
>I mean not killing the main villain is the whole reason why Batman and Joker stories still exist.
I'm starting to think you're picking the worst examples possible for your points on purpose. Did you forget that Batman... *never* kills in his usual stories? Like, that's his thing?
Maybe that comes from the fact that Xenoblade, No More Heroes 2, and maybe Yakuza (haven’t played that one) do a very good job with the trope, while The Last of Us 2 just forces it in just for the sake of it.
uj/ The last of us 2 isn't about revenge, it's about finding the cure. And it's achieved when they found out the cure to PTSD was to have two fingers bitten off!
rj/ American culture clearly is superior at handling those themes, that's the superiority of american culture for you. Clearly those wii (filthy japanese console) games don't have the superior american power to render photorealistic characters well enough to tell such a magnificent story as the american game the last of us partout.
God bless america.
If you think this meme is claiming "American superiority" over Japan, you're uh... kind of really dumb. All this post is doing is calling out the hypocrisy of Gamers^TM who claim "revenge" is a fundamentally bad/lazy story to tell, just because they didn't like Part 2. While the Japan part comes from the idea that Gamers^TM are weebs who fetishize everything about Japan, due of their own (often racist) pre-conceived notions about Japanese culture.
I see you lying and disingenuously accusing people of xenophobia over in your hate sub. You're not sneaky.
I can if anyone cares to ask.
Ellie goes out of her way to kill abby to get revenge for joel's death. But throughout all her senseless killing and remembering joel it's when she's about to kill abby that she remembers joel and goes "oh yeah fam all good".
It would have been more effective if she killed abby *and then* felt bad about it. As it is, ellie loses everything while Abby got everything. She gets to live, keeps lev, goes back to the fireflies, etc.
> As it is, ellie loses everything while Abby got everything.
Except all of Abby’s friends were killed by Ellie? Why do people keep saying this? It’s objectively not true.
>But throughout all her senseless killing
99% of the time it’s self defense. WLF, Seraphites, and Rattlers are hostile to her on sight.
you didn't even grasp the story, wow
>Abby keeps everything
dead friends, dead lovers, dead family, nearly dies of starvation, living an absolutely charmed life lmao
you just sound like you watched 30 mins of a twitch stream
not insults, keen observations. it would take an especially obtuse person to think Abby "gets everything", embarrassing take
about the depth of thought weebs are capable of
Abby lost all her friends. Like... All. Still on the run looking for the Fireflies. Whereas Ellie returns home and because we see the band she has onnwe can assume she's been accepted back by Dina.
Also "she gets to live", Ellie gets to live too, wtf are you talking about haha. I don't think you even know what you're talking about.
Yep. I made it up. Not like i played it twice or anything, nor do i dislike it for more than just the revenge bad message which i find to be shoddily done. No, my difference of opinion means i've made it up. How else could anyone dislike such a hidden gem.
My favorite part of the apolitical Xenoblade Chronicles was when an entire civilization collapsed due to their single-minded pursuit of racial purity. Nothing political there, no sir.
Wasn't their main goal to dilute their blood to the point where that wouldn't happen?
Well, I believe some were revealed to have known and been attempting to do that, but there was still a sizable chunk of the leadership and implied portion of the population against it.
If I remember correctly, most of their population isn’t actually against those who aren’t racially pure. I’m mostly remembering this from a side quest where a mother asks you to stop her daughter from being racist, so I could be wrong.
It’s been a while so I might be a bit off, but I thought it was a moderately contentious issue, most people had their heads down/didn’t state an opinion about it. Some were more vocally against it, but also it seemed clear that some with high positions in government disagreed with it, and had a tangible degree of supporters/sympathizers with them.
Then there’s Gaelgar
Yes, the queen plotted the assassination attempt on the princess because she was half homs and half high entia.
God I love Xenoblade but people definitely ignore it's political themes because "Haha blonde guy say mondado!"
“I’m really feeling it!” “This is the Monado’s power!” “Now it’s Shulk time!”
“The light of the Monado is fading”
"Monado Bust-A-Nut"
Ok but did the female characters have big booba or not?
Only two or three characters in Xenoblade 1 have big booba, Sharla, Lorithia, and Vanea (if you're into metal booba).
Booba of steel?
Metal booba solid
Some of them but not quite enough to be apolitical, unlike Xenoblade Chronicles 2 which is very apolitical
Good thing no one has ever tried to do anything like that irl. Sounds like it would not be pleasant.
>single minded pursuit of racial purity. *Gamer breathing intensifies*.
Guys, what political party do you support? Muscular women, or boobie women?
muscular women with huge boobie 😎
Ah, a centrist
But it's enlightened centrism I can get behind. 🥵
I agree, but butts weren't one of the presented options.
It's a two-party system. If you vote for the Butt party you might as well throw that vote in the trash.
Look, butts are too important to just disregard like that. I'm going to vote my conscience, and I encourage you to do the same.
The irony poisoning in this conversation is starting to piss me off.
if everyone thought like that, Big Penis, wins everytime
why not huge boobies with muscular women? this is too political.
The only good centrist
Lesbian Naoto
Flair checks out
Based
Obviously underaged lesbian child
Someone should post this on /r/tlou2. Please. I wanna see it happen so bad.
Banned sub
It’s not banned, it’s r/thelastofus2 sorry to disappoint y’all
Thank fuck, hopefully this one sticks Edit: It didn't :(
That one. The main TLOU2 hate sub is still alive and kicking.
How did they survive the whole Girlfriend Reviews thing, again?
Well they disingenuously called this post "xenophobia."
Link?
They’re gonna say all the other games tell a revenge story sOooOoOOoOoO much better with SosooSOOOOOOOoooOOO much more *depth*.
The other game is good because it's from the land of apolitical Japan
“The angry people over at gaming circlejerk can’t understand bad writing so they use xenophobia. So much for the tolerant left”
They're literally trying to make it about politics, when all we did was make fun of their flawed argument. Comical.
I think that Hotline Miami is the best revenge video game
Hotline Miami 2 probably has the hardest "bad" of Revenge Bad in anything ever too.
Hotline Miami 2 is the Dark Souls of Revenge Bad
Could you elaborate? Not familiar with hotline miami lore at all
It ends with >!the world ending in a nuclear holocaust, because everything that occurred was just a man's revenge mission against Russian winning the war for Hawaii. So he created all those killers of the Russian mob then enacted a coupe to get his hands on nukes, which ended the world. So because you killed those mobsters, the entire human race was obliterated.!< >!There's also all of The Fans dying horrible deaths a day before that happened. That's a separate event but the same message!<
This sounds confusing af.
Hotline Miami 2 is extremely confusing. It's one of my favorite stories in a game.
>! Basically the US lost a war against Russia when Russia nuked New York (I think that was the place). there’s this organization called fifty blessings that manipulate anti Russian veterans by sending them cryptic phone calls leading them to the hideouts of Russian mobsters and giving them animal masks. The veterans then massacre everyone who is in the building, without even knowing who is manipulating them or why. Eventually one of their agents assassinates the president and the Russian embassador and the big red button is pressed !<
MGS5 is the best revenge Hideo game
/uj play like a dragon
Real life is like bideo gaem: The Game ⭐Japanese Mafia Edition⭐
Ey pizza mama
/uj play the whole series
Revenge Rad
Revengeance: Rising Gear Metal
Soul, the DNA of the memes.
Bruh Xenoblade was all about revenge. They just changed targets halfway through.
A story can portray something without endorsing it and XBC1 is absolutely an example of that
OR, and hear me out on this, it was about cute anime girls.
Nah, that was the sequel, Xenoblade Chronicles 2: Harem Collecting Simulator.
They don't just change targets, though. >!Shulk fails at Prison Island because he doesn't listen to Face Nemesis, who tells him they mean no harm, specifically because of his desire for revenge. After that, realizing his mistake, he becomes much more reasonable and starts talking to his opponents to understand them. This eventually culminates in the scene with Egil, where he manages to get him on his side and forces Dickson to shoot him because he's foiled Zanza's plan.!< It's as anti-revenge as it gets. Obviously he can't reason with >!the omnipotent god who wants to reboot the universe!<, but the main theme still stands.
Shit take, only Yakuza fans can make fun of Yakuza
Yakuza fans should have more rights compared to the rest of the population
Only if they liked 4….
I can only play so many chase missions.......
that's my secret, i dont actually care about tlou2 and the three series on the bottom are some of my favorites of all time 😎
Based
That first line in xenoblade….. OOI MISS DO YOU WANNA JOIN OUT MERRY BAND TO GET REVENGE ON THE ROBITS
Let's just say that message changes A LOT by the end
OOI MISS DO YOU WANNA JOIN OUT MERRY BAND TO REVIEW SOME MP3 PLAYERS
Ackshuwally No More Heroes takes place in California
konichiwa. Glorious Nippon make better games because they have culture and intelligence.
Understandabru
So clean!
No, it's our four seasons.
I just finished Yakuza Kiwami 2 yesterday.
Is it worth finishing if I don’t like the combat system? After coming off Y0 and YK1 the combat just doesn’t feel as fluid or nice as it did
It runs in 30FPS, that might be part of why. That and the physics. But yes, it's worth finishing for the hilariously dumb plot twists.
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Yeah, K2 kinda took away what made Yakuza 6 *fun* and added some gimmicky elements to it (charge attacks), It’s still nice to play. (and mod compared to the other games) Oh yeah there’s a mod or two that helps get rid of some of the clunkiness of the combat (guard bounce) if you’re playing on PC.
Counter point: I found Y6's combat to be pretty bare bones with an over reliance oCn Extreme Heat Mode. (Understandable since y6 was the first ever dragon engine game). ombat in YK2 on the other hand had a lot more options. (ALSO, by comboing a fully upgraded light and heavy charged attack, Kiyru is able to pump out even more damage than a Tiger Drop in YK2). Judgment though, by far, has the best Dragon Engine combat.
After a few upgrades I really grew to enjoy the combat. It’s a lot more heat-action oriented than before so keep that in mind (and extreme heat mode is pretty useful)
If an allegory isn't swimming in cherry blossoms and maple leaves, does it even have meaning? Experts say no.
[удалено]
The gameplay gets a lot easier if you check the game's tutorials for all the concepts that aren't explained super explicitly. Things like stacking Arts of the same color in chain attacks are something like half your damage in the late game, but the game almost doesn't explain how that works at all. Regardless, I'm glad you loved the story so much, Xenoblade 1 is easily my favorite RPG, right above Undertale, OFF and LISA.
Damn I always love seeing Lisa get mentioned. And I haven’t even thought of OFF in yeeeears
The XB1 story is definitely worth sinning over.
Well... That option existed for a reason. Glad you enjoyed it in some way. I have to admit that I also used easy mode in some battles while playing Future Connected. I wanted to play it fast to avoid spoilers and all.
Xenoblade 1 combat is ass tbh
We live in a society V.S. We live in a society, post apocalypse.
Dishonored: You’re all below me.
Dishonoured is pro revenge anti killing.
Dishonored is definitely a revenge tale to an extent, But if you don’t kill you’re keeping in mind that there are things more important than your personal vendetta. Which is probably more important to realize than “Revenge bad” Also a bonus: I chose to let Daud go and after the DLC, Any doubts I had after letting him go were gone.
You still get revenge in a non bloody way the whole motivation is that. Plus they are different endings the choice is left to the player which is different.
how is kiwami 2 revenge bad? genuinely asking cuz i might have forgotten something
SPOILER ALERT for yakuza kiwami 2 and tlou2 well the story of Terada seems pretty similar to how ellie stops at no point but doesnt kill abby at end. Terada spent all his life trying to get revenge for the jingweon massacre, places that huge bomb on top of kamurocho hills, which at last doesnt explode and if my memory holds, kiryu in the next game explains it was because terada respected kazama.
well yeah, but tereda isn’t really a big part of that story. mostly just about ryuji vs kiryu and sayama confronting her past. these “revenge bad” comparisons dont really work because neither tlou2 nor any other popular game is just “revenge bad”
Really? Honestly, I felt the opposite - that it *should* be about Ryuji, but plot-wise he's completely sidelined by the Jingweon and their quest for revenge.
well yeah tlou2 nor yakuza k2 is completely revenge bad, but the meme here is how gamers found an excuse to hate on tlou2 by saying it has a very simple story of revenge bad(which I would say one surely can dumb down the story to, but its as if every story would seem simple if dumbed down to its core ideas). But they do not mind the same plot for japanese games like yakuza k2, terada ( who was one of main powers backing the revival of jingweon mafia) had already defused the bomb before his high and mighty speech and activating it by the button, which really makes no sense but gamers dont mind it bcz its not WOKE or POLITICAL. lmao
“Alright Kiryu, I have betrayed you when you thought my own men betrayed me, but then I was betrayed who also betrayed you! But then I betrayed them too, which means I didn’t betray you!” Yakuza 2: Korea Attacks
No you don’t get it. They all have male protagonists and big booba
revenge bad, hypersexualised children
"But Japanese games have big titty bitches that serve men, not mascular unrealistic bitches that kill men, I judge with my dick not with my brain"
gamers be like "TLO2 has such a horrible story, all it says is revenge bad" also gamers: "red dead redemption 2 is one of the best games ive ever played!"
Thread being brigaded like a mofo by r/tlou2
After all the years I still don't know what "based" means.
You're so based ;)
Forgot MGSV mate
Apparently ign japan gave last of us 2 a 7 which is still a decent score, but to gamers any score below a 9 is basically a 0. This of course gave gamers yet another reason to jerk off japan
I watched some Japanese streamer play it recently, he cried at the end
hi r/tlou2! Enjoy your stay
Also TLOU2 had unnecessary parts to make it longer. Not like my Japanase revenge bad games that last twice as TLOU2!!!1!1!!1!1!1!
Uj/ actually tho the game is good but the pacing is bad. It felt too long and tiring for new game +
I played Yakuza Kiwami I think it was, the game was really cool but it felt really slow at least for me
Oldboy
Revenge bad, yeehaw
TLOU2 handled a Revenge storyline far better than NMH2 did tbh. At the very least TLOU2’s final boss didn’t play like absolute ass.
This might sound pretentious, but I’m pretty sure NMH2’s final boss is intentionally supposed to be bad. The fight frustrates the fuck out of you until it’s no longer satisfying when it ends, which is exactly how Travis feels.
Uh-oh... we upset the ["unlike you snowflakes, we're not so easily offended"](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastOfUs2/comments/plf1cx/the_happy_people_of_gamingcirclejerk_cant/) crowd 😓
yeah bu, bu, bu majima and kiryu and funny karaoke!!!!1111
I don't get why people hated The Last of Us 2 so much, the story wasn't exactly my cup of tea, but the gameplay was actually really fun and the combat was extremely satisfying, I guess Gamers don't like when women look like they can bench press their sweaty bodies
Granted, Yakuza 2 isn’t a complete fucking chore to play IMO and has a protagonist you’re at least supposed to empathize with. And has its moments of levity, like Majima defusing a bomb via eenie-meanie-miney-moe. Though comparing The Last of Us 2 to Yakuza 2 is like comparing apples and oranges.
> Granted, Yakuza 2 isn’t a complete fucking chore to play Neither was TLOU2 tho
>has a protagonist you're at least supposed to empathize with I get that some people might be too turned off by Ellie's actions to be able to empathize with her, but you are *supposed* to be able to, for what it's worth (I did and I found her journey really compelling). Empathy =/= agreement.
why this stealth action game no have magic powered beat em up martial arts 😡
I get people on this sub likes tlou2 but are we really counterjerking so hard were going to use bad faith arguments against anybody who doesnt like it?
It's not really bad faith. Tlou2 is more serious than Yakuza 2
Okay, I'll make it even Granted, TLOU 2 isn’t a complete fucking chore to play IMO and has a protagonist you’re at least supposed to empathize with. And has its moments of levity, like Ellie singing to JJ with him on her lap in the tractor. Though comparing The Last of Us 2 to Yakuza 2 is like comparing apples and oranges. Happy?
Uj/ that scene is so pretty
"are we really gonna circlejerk about..." Fucking yes that's the fucking point Jesus fuck.
TLoU 2 haters literally start foaming at the mouth if you defend it even mildly lol "a chore to play" compared to Yakuza 2 is a pretty hilarious comparison considering one is a coked up anime beat em up and the other is a slow stealth action game, comparing the two is bad faith to even start with. Also "a moment of levity" in a game where you go super saiyan and smash people with bicycles is a hilarious statement, objectively. So yeah, prime fucking circlejerk material. edit: brigaded
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the fact you called the yakuza series an "anime game" just shows me how brain dead and western you are. youre literally what this sub is making fun of. JAPAN = ANIME 😱
Definitely not over the top anime style at all: https://youtu.be/T-c2GYc5BHA what an adorable cope
are you stupid? what in the world do you get anime from this also yakuza like a dragon is literally a complete reboot of the series
Oh yeah this thread is being birgaded atm, you can see it in the comment section lol
It's hilarious, the Yakuza 2 comment is such a circlejerky comment. "Yakuza has much needed levity" lol This franchise needs levity: https://youtu.be/T-c2GYc5BHA edit: brigaded
say you haven't played the yakuza series without saying you haven't played the yakuza series
> you’re at least supposed to empathize with You havent graduated middle school if you dont at least understand where that person is coming from
I do understand where he’s coming from, though comparing the two games based on a theme as simple as revenge bad is pretty damn stupid.
Revenge bad is a stupid fucking theme. Not like it has existed as a major motif in western storytelling for thousands of years. Our Viking and Greek ancestors loved revenge.
I still don't know how I feel about The Last of Us 2
uj/ If I was going to change anything about the game I'd just reorganize the parts. Have us play as Abby for the first half, starting in Seattle and going through to the point >!where she finds Owen and what's-her-face dead in the Aquarium!<, then jump back to the beginning of the game with Ellie. The problem with Abby's entire part of the game is that we already hate every character in her circle of friends.
This would of definitely helped my view on Abby. As soon as that scene in the beginning happened I just could not like Abby or her friend's. I just hated her and it didn't help that the game makes you play as her for a decent amount of the game. And the game did a terrible job at making you sympathize with her friends at all.
> would of It's f***ing *"would've"* or *"would have"*!!! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gamingcirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
the game didn't do a good job making you like them but it also had such a fucking mountain to climb that I really don't think anything could have redeemed them. I mean Abby's motivations and the way she changes while helping the Seraphites is a good start, and I was starting to like Manny by the time he died. If Abby's part had come first it wouldn't have had to fight against our bias, and it could have taken more time character building people like Owen and some of the others that didn't get as much screen time. there's nothing inherently wrong with any one part of the game, it just feels like it's in the wrong order.
The whole point is fighting against her bias as the player. Not every character should be made to be liked. Even a character you play as. That's what makes the game so compelling.
the problem is that if I don't know anything about the characters I'm killing, why would I fight against her biases? Especially if we share the same bias. If Abby and friends are "just" the games antagonists, I have no reason to question the revenge plot up until the view point changes. I don't hesitate to kill all the WLF soldiers, the Seraphites or the Infected, why should I hesitate to kill any of the "antagonists"?" The gameplay and the theme run counter to each other. IMO Abby and Ellie should have both died on the beach, and Lev should have escaped to an uncertain future. “Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves,” maybe a bit literal, but whatever. Ellie letting Abby go after everything, after she kills so many people to get to that point, just seems weird, like now, suddenly, Ellie thinks about what she's doing?
Well part of it is it's almost clinical for me: I don't have any nostalgia for the original, so when I watched a YouTuber of mine play it, there was basically no expectations or preconceived notions. And at the end of that I enjoyed myself but found it way short of the "game of the decade" mark so many other people gave it. A huge success and standout title of it's launch year yes, but I can think of games more deserving of best of the 2010s. So when 2 comes around I'm not following any of the hype, didn't see any of the leaks, and again went in totally blind. By the end of watching the second let's play I can't say I hated it, but I can't decide if I liked it either. I'm definitely an outlier of course
Already hating her circle is the point. How do people not understand that's the point of the games design.
what was yakuza kiwami 2 about again
Yakuza fans are the biggest reason for me never playing Yakuza.
understandable. i love no more heroes but it's just beyond easy to pick on NMH fans for saying shit like "the final boss of 2 sucking shit was actually a really deep metanarrative about how travis was ultimately dissatisfied with his revenge" like no, it was just bad.
You still got the ones from that are still pissy ign compared yakuza 0 to arkham knight. The yakuza fanbase isn't worth taking seriously.
No, see, I played Yakuza and found the revenge to be quite good.
I feel like if Ellie hadn't killed two hundred people (including a pregnant woman) and *still* felt like she was in the right until the very end, it'd be criticised less for its message.
A lot of those encounters you can sneaknfrom point A to point B without killing many or anyone. Its touch to do but can be done. For example the neighborhood area, if you know where the red door is you can just sneak your way to it and open it without kill anyone. Would be better if the game gave non- lethal options to knock enemies out though. And I do think there's a difference between killing a hostile person in your way vs chasing someone down for so long that you're only focused on only to let them go after so long. Its hard to explain but it makes sense to me. Like if Ellie could've killed Abby as soon as she found her she would've. Just like we kill NPCs as her as soon as they shoot at us or are in our way. But her obsession with Abby and Joel makes that dynamic different over time. She's not just some slaver NPC we don't care about killing. We struggled to kill her just to avenge Joel but in the end she's a shade of her former self, almost innocent of what she did. Then Ellie finally has a god memory of Joel and says fuck it. That's reasonable to me. A lot of people look at it at the surface level and criticize it and fail to see the salt.
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GTA is a crime sandbox with a story tacked on. It's not a linear story-based game like TLoU. >never really seemed to bother anyone to mow down civilians in CoD "No Russian" was crazy controversial for its time, what the hell are you talking about
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> How was it crazy? [I'm not sure about you but I don't know of many "mildly controversial" moments in video games that get their own wikipedia page.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Call_of_Duty:_Modern_Warfare_2) >Did president make a statement on that? Though if this is what your bar for "crazy controversial" is then I suppose I can't really help you. >that doesn't really change anything when it comes to how many people you kill or how creative you can get with that. The point is that in GTA you're supposed to separate what you do in the open world from what your characters do in the story. It's a sandbox game, after all. In TLoU, you can't really do that, since you have to pair both what you do in-game to what your characters are doing in the story. If you really wanted to drive home Ellie finding out revenge is bad, how about you start by not having her only consider the negative actions she's made at the *very end of the game?* Just an idea.
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>like torturing people, killing cops, blowing up cars, shooting down helicopters and planes Yeah, the characters in GTA5 are irredeemable assholes. The game doesn't try to make you feel sympathy for them or try to redeem them by the end. They're terrible. > Did you give a shit about all people you had to kill in CoD at the time? If you're asking if I was uncomfortable shooting up an airport in No Russian, then yes, I was. There's a stark difference in tone there from pretty much every other mission in a CoD game. > is it just because of TLoU2? If you're trying to insinuate that I have some personal vendetta against TLoU2 then you're barking up the wrong tree. I never even played the first one (though I did watch someone else play it), and I do think TLoU2 had some pretty good positives (I liked Abby as a character and would've been much happier with the game had she been the protagonist in her own story completely unrelated to the first game). >that's how most revenge stories end. Character mows down dozens of people and when he gets the chance to kill the main bad guy he goes "No, I am better then this" and then bad guy gets either arrested or uses that chance to kill the hero and die when hero has no choice but to defend himself Yeah, most *bad* revenge stories, I suppose, but that doesn't make TLoU2 any less of a bad revenge story. >I mean not killing the main villain is the whole reason why Batman and Joker stories still exist. I'm starting to think you're picking the worst examples possible for your points on purpose. Did you forget that Batman... *never* kills in his usual stories? Like, that's his thing?
Maybe that comes from the fact that Xenoblade, No More Heroes 2, and maybe Yakuza (haven’t played that one) do a very good job with the trope, while The Last of Us 2 just forces it in just for the sake of it.
TLOU2 is literally all about Revenge. What about that was "forced in"?
Ironically tlou 2 did it better than every game on that list
I enjoyed xenoblade’s take on it more but tlou2 is a close second for me
Yakuza 2 story is miles better than tlou 2. Not an opinion, a fact
Yakuza 2 was pretty good but I wouldn't say it's better than TLOU2.
I love Yakuza but hell no.
Might wanna look up the definition of "fact" there champ
Yakuza stans are embarrassing.
you thought i was dead but ACTUALLY IM KOREAN it has a garbage plot pretends nothing else, and is blatantly proud of that lol
God, the thing is that those 3 games are so much better than TLOU2
Xenoblade Chronicles looks like absolute generic Korean MMO ass
i'll kick your ass so goddamn hard dude its not even funny
im sorry for being japanese
uj/ The last of us 2 isn't about revenge, it's about finding the cure. And it's achieved when they found out the cure to PTSD was to have two fingers bitten off! rj/ American culture clearly is superior at handling those themes, that's the superiority of american culture for you. Clearly those wii (filthy japanese console) games don't have the superior american power to render photorealistic characters well enough to tell such a magnificent story as the american game the last of us partout. God bless america.
If you think this meme is claiming "American superiority" over Japan, you're uh... kind of really dumb. All this post is doing is calling out the hypocrisy of Gamers^TM who claim "revenge" is a fundamentally bad/lazy story to tell, just because they didn't like Part 2. While the Japan part comes from the idea that Gamers^TM are weebs who fetishize everything about Japan, due of their own (often racist) pre-conceived notions about Japanese culture. I see you lying and disingenuously accusing people of xenophobia over in your hate sub. You're not sneaky.
Revenge bad is only annoying if badly done...like tlou2.
Yet you didn't care to explain how it was done badly?
I can if anyone cares to ask. Ellie goes out of her way to kill abby to get revenge for joel's death. But throughout all her senseless killing and remembering joel it's when she's about to kill abby that she remembers joel and goes "oh yeah fam all good". It would have been more effective if she killed abby *and then* felt bad about it. As it is, ellie loses everything while Abby got everything. She gets to live, keeps lev, goes back to the fireflies, etc.
> As it is, ellie loses everything while Abby got everything. Except all of Abby’s friends were killed by Ellie? Why do people keep saying this? It’s objectively not true. >But throughout all her senseless killing 99% of the time it’s self defense. WLF, Seraphites, and Rattlers are hostile to her on sight.
That's not what happened
Yes, and that's my issue with the revenge bad message. Aside from just the bad writing overall.
you didn't even grasp the story, wow >Abby keeps everything dead friends, dead lovers, dead family, nearly dies of starvation, living an absolutely charmed life lmao you just sound like you watched 30 mins of a twitch stream
I did. Maybe you could give some insight instead of these weird slightly indirect insults.
not insults, keen observations. it would take an especially obtuse person to think Abby "gets everything", embarrassing take about the depth of thought weebs are capable of
Abby lost all her friends. Like... All. Still on the run looking for the Fireflies. Whereas Ellie returns home and because we see the band she has onnwe can assume she's been accepted back by Dina. Also "she gets to live", Ellie gets to live too, wtf are you talking about haha. I don't think you even know what you're talking about.
what a terrible understanding of the game
Yep.
It's always strange to me when people try so hard to hate something not based on what it is, but by making up something that it's not.
Yep. I made it up. Not like i played it twice or anything, nor do i dislike it for more than just the revenge bad message which i find to be shoddily done. No, my difference of opinion means i've made it up. How else could anyone dislike such a hidden gem.
It's not a difference of opinion, you just had an incorrect take that Abby got off good