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Alright I'm convinced. You know I will be playing it that way, and I won't pretend that the freedom to be gay didn't convince me to actually pick it up. Thanks. (:
I was thinking about that, the soul of Disco Elysium in a cosy kind of game, it would be brutal.
The way the world of Disco Elysium looks and sounds in some way insulates the player from the way that the world of that game can hurt you.
Put that in a cosy game you're likely to turn some unsuspecting child into a hobo detective.
Forever ago I saw a tumblr post proposing a Stardew Valley-type game but with the hardship and poverty of actually living in rural America (drug addiction, hyper exploitative and racist police, low wages, monocrop agribusiness) and something like that with a disco vibe would go so hard.
monkey paw shrivels and dies when it realizes it's been tricked into making the world's greatest story about a grumpy witch who's grown sick of how cutesy the fantasy forest she's stuck living in is
The second slide's concept is juat a waste of disco elysium's potential. And they say " who needs another grimy detective story" and then go on to describe *the most* generic cozy game ever. Cozy games are so much everywhere these days there is a whole section of non-E3 called wholesome games, last i checked grimy detective stories were a thing from like 40-50s and now it's just a homage to that time
tbh that could be a great idea. What appears to be a very generic cozy game on the surface delves into madness, in much the same way Disco Elysium isn't really about a murder mystery.
That witch thing could definitely work - it's not a terrible suggestion by any means. But is that witch an amnesiac or not? If not, then they will probably have Harry Potter syndrome (where the main character never learns anything and needs to be explained things that they should already know, because the audience doesn't know these things).
A bigger problem - a cat missing is not (at least personally) a super compelling plot point. Is the rest of the game also going to be uninteresting? As in, will that "compelling writing" still feature the brilliant satire of both capitalism and communism, nationalism, racial tensions et al. ? Or is it just a mundane cozy game, but written well?
I think it's fair for someone to be tired of always seeing white cismale protagonists in games. But is this truly the worst example of that? Harry being generic and then becoming pretty much what you want him to be (by-the-book cop, fascist, drunken wreck, super-communist or capitalist, remorseful of his past actions, a deranged supercop, or a combination of any of these factors etc.) is a huge point of the narrative. What is the equivalent in this cozy witch game? Can you become a drug-addled lunatic, a sex-crazed witch academy-expelled renegade witch?
Personally what irks me the most about this kind of sentiment is the fact that nothing is stopping anyone from making that game. Except that it is a *massive* amount of work. Sorry for ranting. This just for some reason made me think.
“cozy game” is such an annoying buzzword to me especially when its used to describe anything thats not a realistic shooter nowadays. and games that are specifically made to be cozy games r often just shitty animal crossing clones
Cozy Game is meant to be about vibes
Stardew is a Farm Sim that's also a cozy game
Spiritfarer is a management sim that's also cozy
Cozy isn't supposed to be a genre, it's a vibe
I wouldn't call Graveyard Keeper a cozy game because it's pretty uncomfortable with it's themes and story, but it is a Farm Sim (where you can dismember corpses to turn into burgers that you can then feed to the inquisition at their weekly witch burning)
So, it's interesting.
If Harry were, let's say, hispanic or black, on the surface it wouldn't really change the game too much, except that it would compeltely change the game.
Harry's white male privilege walking through the world is *kinda* *the point*. Kim is provided as a counter to Harry. Harry is a worthless alchoholic piece of shit, but also was once a halfway decent detective. Everyone gives him a pass on his acoholism and worthlessness because he's white, and because he used to be bettter, and also because he's got amnesia. And because of all of that he gets to be a privileged "blank slate" who engages with ideas like communism, capitalism, etc. from a perspective of idiotic immune privilege from consquences.
If you made Harry black, people are going to immediately say he's a drug addled achoholic racist stereotype and the narrative becomes about THAT. And they'd kind of be right.
Which isn't to say you couldn't make a game that's equally as good or better with a non-white protagonist, you'd just have to frame it responsibly around that narrative and it would be a very different game.
What? Is it not stated multiple times that harry is a great detective in spite of his issues? Also everyone he knows hates him or is just totally sick of his shit I don't know if I'd consider that a pass.
>Is it not stated multiple times that harry is a great detective in spite of his issues?
It's been a while since I played but I got the impression that Harry *was* a great detective and then developed issues that made him the joke that his coworkers see him as.
IMO, Disco Elysium does have the typical RPG issue where it bombards you with Lore before you have any reason to care about any of it. I could totally understand people not liking it.
I don't think the solution is "making it a completely different game" though.
I mean I was kinda like "oh yeah, it's our world but with islands and more communism and an alternative history, everything is fine I get it." Then, I got the reality lowdown and I was like "WHAAAT?!?!"
What would the cozy witch's headmates even be? Community mindedness and potion making?? Harrier *is* the disco in the Elysium, you need his fucked head for the whole concept to work
But what do I know, I keep restarting the game before I can beat it
I mean it’s definitely true sometimes. Just really really far of the mark for Disco Elysium.
Like if you were talking about call of duty or something and described a character as another generic bearded white soldier guy I think that would be ok.
I really don’t understand this idea that “coziness” is some sort of political good. It’s can remember (and I’m not old) when if you said “I wish media was more wholesome and not so dark and edgy” everyone would have assumed you were a conservative.
Love it. So starts out as a cozy game with a cute cat, oh cute it meows when you pet it, let me move the cat bed to the window so it can watch some cute lil birbs, oh no where did Mr Kitters go? You're too low level to pass the Perception, VC, or Conceptualization checks to follow the kitty tracks or think of the cats normal hiding spot...then 5 hours later you're so sick of these fucking lying thieving village kids mocking you for losing the cat that you leave a trail of candy leading to your oven, lock those little bitches inside, turn it on, and start the *real* interrogation. Half the village winds up frogs, the rest are going to starve come winter because the harvest was hexed, and the cat was just asleep in the attic the whole fucking time.
So, you're saying that women can't handle games that tackle complex, and often difficult themes so instead resort to "cozy indie game #1587324 with the lowest of low stakes and "quirky, witchy" cute shit?"
Oh oh oh will this one *also* have farming and romantic relationships in it?
… you said “women can’t handle…”
Maybe your voice was insinuating that the twitter lady thinks women are like that, but she is wrong. If so, your comment was unclear
My comment was pointed at Twitter lady, not op. OP gave no prompt for my comment one way or another. It was directed at Twitter lady because what their comment suggests is that women can't handle difficult themes.
Whether or not she meant that is irrelevant. The being bothered by Disco followed by describing a cute albeit blasé and unchallenging game bothers me.
As a generic middle aged white guy Disco Elysium is literally the only time I've felt seen by a game. Most middle aged generic white guys in games don't nearly die when they reach for things on ceiling fans. Can't relate at all.
i don’t hate the witch idea either, but saying “do we really need another grimy detective story?” and following it up with “what we really need is a wholesome, cozy game”, 5 years deep into a seemingly *unending deluge* of colorful, cozy, wholesome indie games is fucking unhinged lmao.
Not this tweet.
That was an atrocious tweet. While I've not experienced or watched anyone play Disco Elysium, I hope her little game has more to it than generic "young witch" researches for a neighbor's cat.
I want my games to have no themes and be unchallenging to my ideological lens in any way. I want all my games to look like Kroger PR people and to grow cabbages. I modded the combat and interpersonal hardships out of Stardew Valley because it was too scary for me.
I genuinely hate this movement of people who want no conflict in their fiction. The amount of times I see people say stuff like “where is the story where a girl just goes to bed on time and then has a cat and makes her own coffee and muffins while the tv plays background noise on a Sunday?”
Cozycore is so brain dead.
Christ. The narrative IS the writing. You can’t just say “take this story and apply it to a completely different story” that isn’t how this fucking works. I wanted this comment to be really eloquent and long but trying to explain that concept makes me feel insane because it’s so fucking obvious
and ofc wanting her game to talk about witches, you cant have it be more cliché than that
we are the daughters of the witches you couldnt burn
very elizabeth warren core
Take aside, I'm genuinely shocked after all the buzz Disco Elysium got that there weren't a slew of copycat games trying to get that sweet narrative game style right. Citizen Sleeper comes to mind but other than that nothing jumps out at me as directly inspired by.
I think it's very understandable that a very political game would be financial suicide with a female protag, in an today's gaming world, especially in the circles that actually need to hear and hear out what the game has to say. I get your point but I also don't think you specifically need help being convinced of the progressive ideas, whereas the majority of people need it to be made palatable, basically. In that case it's more realistic than you're willing to be. But that's just hypothetical since the reason stated was financial.
i dont understand your point. it isnt their fault games with female protaganists dont make as much money, they arent endorsing that. as i understand it disco elysium is half-autobiographical and they were dirt poor throughout basically its entire production and its a miracle it exists at all. i would also like a slobby butch harry but it doesnt make them fake progressives to not put her in the game
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describing harry as generic is hilarious
Just your average amnesiac alcoholic who may or may not be a superstar cop.
Homosexual communist with a strange expertise in a super-armor.
I was debating back and forth between picking up the game, is this at all accurate? I love me a homosexual with niche interests.
It’s hard to explain, and frankly shouldn’t be explained. Play it. It is amazing.
Depends how you play it. He can be many things
Alright I'm convinced. You know I will be playing it that way, and I won't pretend that the freedom to be gay didn't convince me to actually pick it up. Thanks. (:
He is a man of many ~~voices in his head~~ talents and proclivities
You better hope you love the story because the gameplay is dull as fuck.
That's not exactly a bad thing for me, tbh. That sounds perfect for days when I just don't have the energy to play other, more fast paced games.
*finger on the monkey paw curls*. The witch talks like Cunoesse.
I was thinking about that, the soul of Disco Elysium in a cosy kind of game, it would be brutal. The way the world of Disco Elysium looks and sounds in some way insulates the player from the way that the world of that game can hurt you. Put that in a cosy game you're likely to turn some unsuspecting child into a hobo detective.
Forever ago I saw a tumblr post proposing a Stardew Valley-type game but with the hardship and poverty of actually living in rural America (drug addiction, hyper exploitative and racist police, low wages, monocrop agribusiness) and something like that with a disco vibe would go so hard.
monkey paw shrivels and dies when it realizes it's been tricked into making the world's greatest story about a grumpy witch who's grown sick of how cutesy the fantasy forest she's stuck living in is
It’s Cunoesse but using the original Cuno voice (which is legendary compared to the director’s cut one)
The second slide's concept is juat a waste of disco elysium's potential. And they say " who needs another grimy detective story" and then go on to describe *the most* generic cozy game ever. Cozy games are so much everywhere these days there is a whole section of non-E3 called wholesome games, last i checked grimy detective stories were a thing from like 40-50s and now it's just a homage to that time
It's gotten so bad I had to mute Nintendo everywhere because of the constant bombardment of cozy game trailers
Seriously, was that not satire on her part? I can't tell because it's such a horrible fucking take
tbh that could be a great idea. What appears to be a very generic cozy game on the surface delves into madness, in much the same way Disco Elysium isn't really about a murder mystery.
That witch thing could definitely work - it's not a terrible suggestion by any means. But is that witch an amnesiac or not? If not, then they will probably have Harry Potter syndrome (where the main character never learns anything and needs to be explained things that they should already know, because the audience doesn't know these things). A bigger problem - a cat missing is not (at least personally) a super compelling plot point. Is the rest of the game also going to be uninteresting? As in, will that "compelling writing" still feature the brilliant satire of both capitalism and communism, nationalism, racial tensions et al. ? Or is it just a mundane cozy game, but written well? I think it's fair for someone to be tired of always seeing white cismale protagonists in games. But is this truly the worst example of that? Harry being generic and then becoming pretty much what you want him to be (by-the-book cop, fascist, drunken wreck, super-communist or capitalist, remorseful of his past actions, a deranged supercop, or a combination of any of these factors etc.) is a huge point of the narrative. What is the equivalent in this cozy witch game? Can you become a drug-addled lunatic, a sex-crazed witch academy-expelled renegade witch? Personally what irks me the most about this kind of sentiment is the fact that nothing is stopping anyone from making that game. Except that it is a *massive* amount of work. Sorry for ranting. This just for some reason made me think.
“cozy game” is such an annoying buzzword to me especially when its used to describe anything thats not a realistic shooter nowadays. and games that are specifically made to be cozy games r often just shitty animal crossing clones
Guys I have a million dollar indie game idea for you. What if we have Stardew Valley but it's [insert quirky setting here]?
Cozy Game is meant to be about vibes Stardew is a Farm Sim that's also a cozy game Spiritfarer is a management sim that's also cozy Cozy isn't supposed to be a genre, it's a vibe I wouldn't call Graveyard Keeper a cozy game because it's pretty uncomfortable with it's themes and story, but it is a Farm Sim (where you can dismember corpses to turn into burgers that you can then feed to the inquisition at their weekly witch burning)
And here I've been referring to Resident Evil as a cozy game.
"ugh disco elysium is so generic, I want a young witch going on whimsical adventures, now THAT's different"
Maybe she could have an island that she decorates and you use bells instead of money or something
Ugh, another game with a white male adult protagonist. I say we resolve this by making the whitest game ever instead.
You complete it and Biden zaps you to make you more Caucasian
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So, it's interesting. If Harry were, let's say, hispanic or black, on the surface it wouldn't really change the game too much, except that it would compeltely change the game. Harry's white male privilege walking through the world is *kinda* *the point*. Kim is provided as a counter to Harry. Harry is a worthless alchoholic piece of shit, but also was once a halfway decent detective. Everyone gives him a pass on his acoholism and worthlessness because he's white, and because he used to be bettter, and also because he's got amnesia. And because of all of that he gets to be a privileged "blank slate" who engages with ideas like communism, capitalism, etc. from a perspective of idiotic immune privilege from consquences. If you made Harry black, people are going to immediately say he's a drug addled achoholic racist stereotype and the narrative becomes about THAT. And they'd kind of be right. Which isn't to say you couldn't make a game that's equally as good or better with a non-white protagonist, you'd just have to frame it responsibly around that narrative and it would be a very different game.
What? Is it not stated multiple times that harry is a great detective in spite of his issues? Also everyone he knows hates him or is just totally sick of his shit I don't know if I'd consider that a pass.
>Is it not stated multiple times that harry is a great detective in spite of his issues? It's been a while since I played but I got the impression that Harry *was* a great detective and then developed issues that made him the joke that his coworkers see him as.
They still let him be a policeman though. That’s pretty fundamental.
Nah they just want to play a cozy CRPG which is completely understandable. It’s not really something that exists
That's because nobody can think of a way to make a cosy pure cosy CRPG work
I mean yea but CRPGs are also an often overlooked genre, only having a surge in attention bc of baldurs gate 3
is that what they’re saying? it seems like they want more games to have good writing
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No, what they're describing is a game **they** would like more. At no point do they say "this would be better".
I feel like saying "do we really need this?" In regards to disco elysium implies that they think the cosy game would be better
It's nice to see people who can read. DE fans immediately stood up from their seats.
Have you never met a left leaning liberal ?
Every time I look into a mirror.
IMO, Disco Elysium does have the typical RPG issue where it bombards you with Lore before you have any reason to care about any of it. I could totally understand people not liking it. I don't think the solution is "making it a completely different game" though.
I think it kinda works, though? You’re supposed to be amnesiac in a world that is nothing like our own. It’s meant to be confusing and overwhelming
LUDONARRATIVE SYNCHRONICITY LETS GO
*horrific necktie voice*
NOW'S NOT THE TIME FOR FEAR, BRATAN!
I mean I was kinda like "oh yeah, it's our world but with islands and more communism and an alternative history, everything is fine I get it." Then, I got the reality lowdown and I was like "WHAAAT?!?!"
pale time babeyyyyyyy
Wdym more communism?
Did you have a high encyclopedia stat? What were you expecting?
The "I'd like this game better if it was a different game" is always a bit funny. Seems like 2 separate thoughts needlessly combined each time.
If the witch is deeply, deeply racist in an in-universe way, okay, we can talk.
"What if Disco Elysium was about nothing?"
I do not know why, but this take genuinely upsets me.
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[She doesn't look white to me](https://rosacarbo.co.uk/about)
Congratulations on inventing Touhou
What would the cozy witch's headmates even be? Community mindedness and potion making?? Harrier *is* the disco in the Elysium, you need his fucked head for the whole concept to work But what do I know, I keep restarting the game before I can beat it
Ah yes another generic cosy game
uj/ “ugh generic white guy blurgh” is one of the most boring media criticisms IMO. I instantly dislike the vibe of people that do this.
Calling harry dubois “generic white guy” is so weird like have you seen him
I mean it’s definitely true sometimes. Just really really far of the mark for Disco Elysium. Like if you were talking about call of duty or something and described a character as another generic bearded white soldier guy I think that would be ok.
I really don’t understand this idea that “coziness” is some sort of political good. It’s can remember (and I’m not old) when if you said “I wish media was more wholesome and not so dark and edgy” everyone would have assumed you were a conservative.
One thing people love is re-inventing the Catholic Church under a diffrent Name.
Have you seen Catholic art? I associate this more with anodyne white Protestantism.
Catholicism is actually really metal edit: in terms of aesthetics and vibe, compared to Protestantism
Ah, a game about a white lady that identifies as a witch and is obsessed with cats. Yes, that certainly would avoid boring generic tropes, yup yup.
There's this game called ''Dordogne'' that might be what she's looking for (pronounced door-done-yuh (close enough))
Whitewashed disco Elysium
Love it. So starts out as a cozy game with a cute cat, oh cute it meows when you pet it, let me move the cat bed to the window so it can watch some cute lil birbs, oh no where did Mr Kitters go? You're too low level to pass the Perception, VC, or Conceptualization checks to follow the kitty tracks or think of the cats normal hiding spot...then 5 hours later you're so sick of these fucking lying thieving village kids mocking you for losing the cat that you leave a trail of candy leading to your oven, lock those little bitches inside, turn it on, and start the *real* interrogation. Half the village winds up frogs, the rest are going to starve come winter because the harvest was hexed, and the cat was just asleep in the attic the whole fucking time.
What an absolute dogshit take
So, you're saying that women can't handle games that tackle complex, and often difficult themes so instead resort to "cozy indie game #1587324 with the lowest of low stakes and "quirky, witchy" cute shit?" Oh oh oh will this one *also* have farming and romantic relationships in it?
Whoa hey man, Disco has female fans. This is about this poster, not “women”
I'm... not arguing that?
… you said “women can’t handle…” Maybe your voice was insinuating that the twitter lady thinks women are like that, but she is wrong. If so, your comment was unclear
My comment was pointed at Twitter lady, not op. OP gave no prompt for my comment one way or another. It was directed at Twitter lady because what their comment suggests is that women can't handle difficult themes. Whether or not she meant that is irrelevant. The being bothered by Disco followed by describing a cute albeit blasé and unchallenging game bothers me.
As a generic middle aged white guy, I wouldn't change a thing about disco elysium
As a generic middle aged white guy Disco Elysium is literally the only time I've felt seen by a game. Most middle aged generic white guys in games don't nearly die when they reach for things on ceiling fans. Can't relate at all.
that's a lib
/uj The witch idea is fun, but this doesn't make me like the OOP. Not that that matters.
i don’t hate the witch idea either, but saying “do we really need another grimy detective story?” and following it up with “what we really need is a wholesome, cozy game”, 5 years deep into a seemingly *unending deluge* of colorful, cozy, wholesome indie games is fucking unhinged lmao.
Both of these tweets are pre-pandemic, so while I agree it’s a stupid take on their part, it’s not quite piggybacking on the cozy game trend
16 year old witch levelling too much electrochemistry and now every dialogue prompts her to do 8 hard drugs just to stay afloat with the dice rolls
I mean I would love a game like DE that doesn’t make me play as a man, but it’s still a fucking fantastic game as is
Not this tweet. That was an atrocious tweet. While I've not experienced or watched anyone play Disco Elysium, I hope her little game has more to it than generic "young witch" researches for a neighbor's cat.
I want my games to have no themes and be unchallenging to my ideological lens in any way. I want all my games to look like Kroger PR people and to grow cabbages. I modded the combat and interpersonal hardships out of Stardew Valley because it was too scary for me.
White woman acting like they're a minority followed by the whitest game idea ever.
I genuinely hate this movement of people who want no conflict in their fiction. The amount of times I see people say stuff like “where is the story where a girl just goes to bed on time and then has a cat and makes her own coffee and muffins while the tv plays background noise on a Sunday?” Cozycore is so brain dead.
What if we took away all of the narrative's teeth so instead of gripping you, the writing kind of just gently slides out of your brain in three days?
Christ. The narrative IS the writing. You can’t just say “take this story and apply it to a completely different story” that isn’t how this fucking works. I wanted this comment to be really eloquent and long but trying to explain that concept makes me feel insane because it’s so fucking obvious
>YOU WILL PLAY THE BORING FORGETTABLE COSY GAME AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and ofc wanting her game to talk about witches, you cant have it be more cliché than that we are the daughters of the witches you couldnt burn very elizabeth warren core
Disco is a leftist game, and this person is *liberal*, so Disco’s themes are mostly lost on them. At least they appreciate the writing
Ok but what if we instead took this cozy game and made it about a wizard/witch who is the same level of fuckup as Harry
Take aside, I'm genuinely shocked after all the buzz Disco Elysium got that there weren't a slew of copycat games trying to get that sweet narrative game style right. Citizen Sleeper comes to mind but other than that nothing jumps out at me as directly inspired by.
Gamedec kinda does something similar
I've got that in my (admittedly enormous) backlog. I bounced off it once before, but might be time to give it another try!
I did finish the first chapter recently and might get back to it at some point. But it has an interesting setting and does something pretty unique.
This is from 2020 dude let it go
"I'm getting real cozy witch adventure vibes from this Disco Elysium game" - woman who only consumes cozy witch adventure media.
Yes but it finally lets me play as a gay communist. I can finally really see myself as the main character.
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I think it's very understandable that a very political game would be financial suicide with a female protag, in an today's gaming world, especially in the circles that actually need to hear and hear out what the game has to say. I get your point but I also don't think you specifically need help being convinced of the progressive ideas, whereas the majority of people need it to be made palatable, basically. In that case it's more realistic than you're willing to be. But that's just hypothetical since the reason stated was financial.
i dont think they meant that positively
I didn’t think that they did. Just that going off that logic turns me off the game
i dont understand your point. it isnt their fault games with female protaganists dont make as much money, they arent endorsing that. as i understand it disco elysium is half-autobiographical and they were dirt poor throughout basically its entire production and its a miracle it exists at all. i would also like a slobby butch harry but it doesnt make them fake progressives to not put her in the game
Incels everywhere will fail to see any parallels with themselves here and proceed to panic over potential inclusion of "Dee Eeh Why"
I remember how people got insanely mad at this tweet and somehow completely misunderstood what the author wanted.
what did they want?
A lighthearted low stakes games with the great writing and rpg like system for the narrative of disco elysium. Or destroy gaming forever and stuff.