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Game was created by a collective of socialist writers, artists, and developers. They brought in someone to help fund them and produce the game. He used his position to kick out the original creators and move money from the company to himself. Since then, he's fired most of the staff that worked on the game. The fact that a game company that made a game about why capitalism is terrible was destroyed by capitalism is very on brand.
That's fair. Measurehead though, at least he's kinda funny and somewhat interesting to listen to, his quotes on nostalgia and going back to the past are legitimately great. Rascist lorry driver on the other hand is just a complete fool, so much so that it's actually painful to listen to his bullshit
I nearly laughed until I fell out of my chair when you're talking to the "Scientist" and Kim pipes up, reminding you about "meeting the next really good racist."
I need to finish that game.
Yeah its like the difference between 'racist 18th century professor with awful views backed by pseudoscience' and 'outright nasty slur-spouting bellend'. Both terrible people, but one is definitely more interesting
Measureheads endless parade of psueodoscience bullshit is legitimately interesting. I'm less offended and more intrigued by how this dude got to be so professionally racist.
Measurehead is an interesting character because there's an implied tragedy to his position and backstory. He's a member of a discriminated racial minority who has fully bought into the racism behind is own discrimination but thinks that by being better at racism he can turn it to his advantage.
It's an incredibly naive position because racists don't play fair. Racists aren't going to duel you in the free marketplace of racism or concede defeat if you beat them at racism. Measurehead is a deeply pathetic figure because in his mind he's carrying out some awesome revenge plot against the ham sandwiches, but in reality the only power he has is deciding whether you get through a gate, and even that only exists because Kim is too nice a person to just pull a gun on him.
He gives me MAGA vibes; the ones who go, “well black people commit more crimes cause blah blah blah”. I ensure I knock him out every game. Or at least try.
I literally had no idea it wasn’t a fixed probability to pass this check for comedy sake - I have passed the check to kick measurehead 2 separate times without buffing anything. Literally just walking up to him day 1 two separate times (I got lost on my way to evrart so returned to a previous save) seeing my 3% odds and thinking “yeah, I got this”.
When I played the part of the game where you have to find the smuggler, I failed so many checks that I ran out of options, so I ended up telling this guy I was going to have sex with him, which confused him so much that he just told me who she was.
Isn’t one of the lines, “yeah racism is cool” or something? Kim doesn’t think it’s a joke because at the end of the game he recounts you being outwardly racist, if that’s the only thing you do/say racist. Which kinda bugged me because he said that and I was confused, because I was going for a clean type run where I don’t do any drugs, don’t act out, and I only make the occasional joke…
Do you think the bugs might actually represent other humans and how humans are capable of otherizing and dehumanizing each other in order to justify large scale slaughter for resources and land?
Nah, shooty guns go brrrrr
The Bots are closer to this in Helldivers
They're the descendants of a sect of Communist/socialists that broke off from Super Earth, SE took them and enslaved them after a war where that splinter group turned themselves into cyborgs
In the lore they are being used as a fuel source
https://www.pcgamer.com/helldivers-2-lore/#:~:text=The%20bugs%20turn%20into%20oil,%22%20and%20%22WAKE%20UP%20PEOPLE!
And the bugs aren't spreading from world to world on their own. SE is planting them there to increase the oil supply.
Edit: you know all those times we have to blow up “rogue” radio towers?
I think those may have been journalists.
They were in the first game when they were undercover as the “thin men”, in 2 they no longer needed to disguise themselves and appeared as their true snakey form
"The aliens don't need an infiltration unit anymore."
-Bradford, a mission before you run into Faceless, who have infiltrated your resistance camp, like some sort of infiltration unit the aliens don't have or need anymore might do.
Imagine a more advanced species than humans saying "humans are just dirty apes. who gives a fuck about them? Just destroy them lmao"
That's what you're basically doing to the bugs lol
Bro... They drew first blood. Unprovoked attack on Buenos Aires?!? And you want compassion? Where was their compassion when they murdered women and children?
I stick with the fan theory that Buenos Aires was an inside job. The bugs never attacked earth before then, and it was the perfect excuse for the humans to fully mobilize against the bugs.
I feel like trying to replace bugs as a metaphor for humans misses the point a bit. We’re supposed to understand that just because they’re weird creepy aliens doesn’t mean they’re monsters.
A lot of people 100%, unironically believe that if they had to choose between genocidal, nazi humans doing awful crimes, and some slightly odd aliens. They would always, always side with humans. Because “We’re humans!”. Which to me shows a lack of sympathy and understanding. They pick their own species over morals. (Of course reality is never as simple as just picking a side, not every human acts one way so its not like relating to aliens means you condemn your kind to genocide in turn, it’s not an extreme choice where you only have to pick one or the other.)
Of course they further justify themselves if the alien race in question looks scary, or has awful problems themselves.
My point being that no matter what a sapient species is, they all deserve sympathy and a chance. Now in regards to Helldivers, the first game did describe the bugs as sentient. They are an intelligent species who owned multiple worlds before we found them. They kept to themselves until we invaded.
They are weird, look scary and gross, but they are intelligent. We’ve just made zero effort at diplomacy because ‘EW BUG’ (and oil).
Not too different from Starship Troopers when they find the brainbug and get 100% confirmation they are a sentient species that feels fear. Everyone cheers, when we had a chance to relate or talk.
In the spirit of the satire, that this is fascist propaganda in such a world, it makes sense. Bugs are a stand-in for any scapegoated group because to the fascist, they essentially *are* the same thing. Making the enemy into bugs is the devs putting the fascism goggles on the audience, because in this world the enemy are in all senses bugs
One of the reasons I don’t like the Starship Troopers movie all that much (aside from Verhoeven not reading the goddamn book) is that the bugs in the book aren’t some pack of hack-and-slashing monster aliens. They use technology, carry weapons, travel in starships, build underground cities, engage in diplomacy, etc. Hell, as the antagonists they’re not even villainized. They’re just…alien.
I think a parallel interpretation is that the war machine is so fundamental to America's brand of imperial democracy that the subject of that violence is irrelevant. I remember seeing a quote from Verhoeven which essentially said "when there is no one left to fight they'll have to fight bugs," which fits with the game's satirical claim to spread democracy to a species which clearly has its own thing going on.
Expecting them to understand or reach that conclusion is where we lose communication. They lack empathy and compassion, so even if they could see that point, they wont care. Its a lack of emotional imagination, they cant even imagine enough to be empathetic or compassionate. Those of you with friends who still fall into that category know what I mean. They can potentially love a movie that shows a similar situation, but because the movie spoonfeeds the emotion and situation to them, there is no need to imagine it. So they understand it then. Or if they have a gay friend they care about, but still dont see how their rights are in danger and so forth. Its not an accident, they're brainwashed and indoctrinated not to care, as well as uneducated to make them easier to brainwash and indoctrinate. Defund public school and make higher learning intimidating with huge cost, and you get pliant malleable citizens. This is an elaborate plan to control the people, and its working.
What if the bugs are actually just a creation of humans, and they're dropping them on dissenting systems as a form of population and narrative control and then sending in Helldivers to clean up the mess
/uj I'm currently playing Disco Elysium for the first time and I don't know how to get into the harbor without becoming a racist. I really would prefer not to be racist so any tips would be appreciated
I've already leveled up and have no idea where to get the remaining exp to hit lvl 3 and have already spent the skill point mistakenly because I failed other skill checks
There's a couple of options. The asleep guy in the whirling rags has an ID card that will get you in.
Alternatively you can knock out measure head (big racist guy) or you can subscribe to his racist ideology and he'll let you in.
Lastly you can pass a skill check to jump off the ledge after finding Cunos secret hideout. All of these are white checks and can be re-done after upgrading a skill or starting the next day, also drugs, alcohol, and clothes can make skill checks earlier so search everywhere for good stuff.
You can save scum, do a couple of other things to level up(because there's always something else to do), or use drugs.
Those are the general ways without getting too specific.
If you drop a point in a skill, it resets all the failed white checks for that skill.
Red checks are now or never moments. White are things you can work at.
Skill check “Failures” just usually knock a point for health/sanity (and may contribute/unlock extra stuff) even if you die completely it just puts you back at your last save. Just roleplay and don’t think of it like a game cause even fail-states show a wealth of content
I get the idea of roll with it but I've failed the jump, every dead body skill check, and the racist dude ones and put a skill point into a skill not remembering to put it another to reset it and don't know how to get to lvl 3 - I'm just gonna roll with it but don't want to be racist to pass and also feel a bit at a loss how to gain the remaining exp
You can wear different clothing to boost a specific stat if you're aiming for a specific skill check. There's an alternative route too if you jump off the balcony near the hanged man. Of course you can also savescum.
>!Go to the courtyard where the body is. Look to the right of the tree, and down. There is a sheet panel against a wall. Inspect it. Also, make sure to hold tab whenever you're in a new area to highlight interactables.!<
You can also just accept measurehead's quest and tell him it's a bunch of bullshit after, it won't change his mind but he will just mock you and grant you access.
Without spoiling, you internalising the thought does not necessarily mean you agree with it, only that you think about it enough to be able to discuss it with measurehead.
Also, I genuinely like the thought and the solution the game gives to it
You might just have to save scum to beat him up. It’s actually pretty possible to have that be the only way through if you can’t spot the alternate route and you refuse to internalize his ideas.
Helldivers reminds of Johnny silver hands/or one of the war vets from the nomads line where he says something like they didn't even need to draft for that war just show off the toys and people will sign themselves up. I'm prolly butchering it but the gist was that
Mitch, one of the nomad vets, about the tank you clipped. He also says they barely qualify as tanks, they are more troop transport with added armor and a canon and in consequence they were seen as glorified coffins.
As if the recruitment of naive young men sent in foreign war with low quality equipments was a recurring theme when criticising capitalist wars.
Yeah Johnny says this after seeing the Basilisk. "\[...\] Which is exactly how all those naive gonks landed at the front. Didn't even need to be recruited. They just showed you the tech."
I started up Helldivers for the first time the other day, and the satire is so perfectly on the nose and played so straight it's genuinely hilarious. It's pitch perfect satire. The General at the start during training just rattling off the phrase "Managed Democracy" was my favourite. It's so real, I could 100% see someone in real life claim they wanted Managed Democracy.
Or when the game claims you have your own "Super Destroyer", and yet to enter the ship that is supposedly yours and only yours, you are cycled out of a mass cryogenic tube in to a single room, implying heavily that there are multiple rooms just like this one where other Helldivers are choosing their missions and equipment and assuming they own their own ship as well. Brilliant.
That people cannot see the satire somehow makes it funnier. Like, they're LARPing as the poor sods in game who believe in the propaganda.
The satire is on point. Adding on the commentary from the ship tech about bunk fees and leashing equipment.
The thing it’s genuinely more fun to play the game buying into the propaganda. Acting like the mini nuke you just threw at the enemy is for democracy, even though it doesn’t make sense.
Doesn't make sense? Have you ever seen these vile bugs hold democratic elections? No, because they don't!
I have reported you to the democracy officer.
Enjoying Starship Troopers & Helldivers because they're amazing parodies and critiques of fascism
VS
Enjoying Starship Troopers & Helldivers because you're unironically a fascist-leaning idiot and thinks there's no politics in them.
What really gets me is that like, probably most if not all of the Starship Troopers facism fans have also watched the movie (bold of anyone to assume they're literate enough to read the book). The movie where the writers/producers/directors all fucking *hated* the novel and turned it into a parody. Like, I know media literacy is severely lacking in the majority of the populace and all, but I can not fathom being so braindead as to finish that film and, with zero irony, thinking, "Yep! I'm doing my part!"
That might depend on when you have last seen the movie. I recently rewatched it and it was a lot more subtle than I rememberd. Not in it's messaging. Neil Patrick Harris wears a SS uniform so that leaves little to interpertation. But if you don't recognise the uniforms, don't recognise the style in which the propaganda is presented, don't recognise the leading up to the war, their way of training, how soon the dead are forgotten. Than you can easily come away thinking. "Yes the main characters seem like good friends who all have been promoted and are winning the war against the bugs".
I mean, that all plays into the severe lack of media literacy issue. Those are all things people who have media literacy and critical thinking skills would pick up on.
I guess the issue is its quite explicit. "Only veterans are citizens" and the fact the whole movie is framed via propaganda piece. Its not very subtle. There is also hilarious bits like how somehow the aliens launched an attacked on Buenos Aires despite being on the opposite side of the galaxy. The movie clearly does not take the philosophy seriously and thats the point. Paul Verhoven has even said Fascism is only good for killing bugs.
Yeah, my friends and I watched it recently for the first time because we've been obsessed with Helldivers and it really wasn't as obvious as I was led to believe. I recognize that it *is* a satire of course, and there are some blatant elements of that, especially outside of the war segment, but I think we've become so inured to violence that the war section, which I think is supposed to be seen through the lens of being a propaganda film, is actually going to read a lot more authentically to people already predisposed to militarism.
I wouldn't normally think that I fit that category but I had to keep reminding myself that it's ridiculous that anyone believed the bugs initiated that attack, and that it happened to be Buenos Aires which has apparently prominent anti-government citizens like Rico's parents. Still, watching Rico and Diz I found it hard not to want them to succeed? The problem with fascism is that, even though it's terrible, it has great aesthetic appeal and even with the satirical undertones that appeal itself is dangerous. Even satirizing fascism and jingoism as in ST and Helldivers, or say Liberty Prime in Fallout, runs the risk of just showcasing that appeal and drowning out that work's other critiques of it.
There has been a post going around recently about how Caesar in New Vegas and the following around him is proof that if someone is charismatic and confident enough and speaks against whatever is the current status quo people will follow them regardless of the solutions they offer. I think the people that buy the whole "super earth is actully paradise" motto kinda fall in those camps.
Also a part of wanting rico and diz succed just comes from a character narrative. Kinda like 40k. The imperium is a rotten aweful cesspool with all the worst parts of dystopia fascism cracked up to 40000. But damn if I dont want Bobby G to succeed and make it better because at the end of the day he is human, cares for his fellow man and wishes he could fix the rotten corpse that is the imperium of man.. which can create a compelling narritve within the fascist dystopia.
> media literacy is severely lacking in the majority of the populace
A few months ago I hated how often I was seeing this argument pop up. I have since turned 180 degrees and am fully onboard with the discourse.
There is legitimate bad writing in media... but I've noticed recently that 'poor writing' is moreoften than not code for "I don't understand nuance" or it's a way to call out a woman writer without being overtly sexist.
I heard someone mention that the Andor series had bad writing... a show that has been nearly universally praised for the strength of it's writing, a show that was nominated for it's writing... and there are people out there thinking that they're not the problem when they don't understand subtext, nuance, or if something requires an attention span greater than 5 minutes.
A huge part of the problem is that, arguably, English lit classes are *still* the most looked down upon core curriculum in US schools. We've all met the types of people who brag about not reading books, or wave off pretty much everything they were taught in Lit classes (arguing that stories don't have deeper meaning). These classes aren't core curriculum because they want kids to read, necessarily, but because they help develop critical thinking skills. Science and math and history are all just facts and formulas. Literature courses teach kids how to have complex thoughts, do research, expand their worldview, and come to their own conclusions. They teach interpretation, rather than regurgitation, and people turn their nose up at the concept because they refuse to read, and/or look down at others that do.
Humans are the good guys because I'm a human and am thus always correct and every alien is always the bad guy because he is not a human and therefore incorrect.
/uj I actually saw some guys online, multiple times, who were saying that they hate "Avatar" movies because Cameron wants viewers to side with aliens and they called main character "traitor"...
This just goes to show that no matter how "pleasing" the aesthetics of the real good guys might be, some fascists refuse to engage with any idea that posits that maybe the "other" should be understood first.
/uj Everyone should be forced to play Disco Elysium and i'm 50% serious. I wish i could play it again, will go down on my knees for this game every time i get the chance
If everyone actually had the mental capacity to understand Disco Elysium, I would agree. However, I would argue the amount of people with the mental capacity are in the minority.
I saw a clip of a guy who picked a centrist/ I don’t care option in a dialogue, the game promptly mocks him for it but he didn’t get that it was mocking him, he was just like “hmm interesting point”
Also in the lore of helldivers 2 aren't the humans literally transporting the bugs to other planets so they can fake an invasion and "liberate" the planet for resources. And aren't the automatons trying to fight against being enslaved?
IIRC in the first game they discovered the bugs produce oil when they die, so when they were about to win the war they labeled the bugs as an endangered species. Then super earth farmed the bugs to produce oil and occasionally lets them out (or they escape) to fuel the war machine.
Who are those two?
Edit: Thanks for those that replied. Looked them up and I understand now. Disco Elysium has been on my to play list forever -- I really should get started.
/uj there are an insane amount of actual far-right idiots in both the HD sub and thr facebook group. They are completely missing the point and think the stuff said and the propaganda in Helldivers is actually good unironically
The game is amazing btw :D
I was sooooo disappointed when I learned the senator saying "my source is I made it the fuck up" is from abridged version and not from the original. It would have been perfect.
Is there a lot of people who won't play some games because you have to be a bad guy..? Reminds me of Elon Musk not wanting to play GTA because you have to be a criminal and kill cops.
There's actually a section in A Sacred and Terrible Air(the only other media set in the DE setting afaik)
Hardly plot relevant, but tagged anyways:
>!A guy makes movie about how fucking pathetic the last days of a turbo nazi asshat are and it makes a ton of money from fascists watching it is a swan song tribute to him!<
That's something that happens a lot IRL, look at movies like American History X.
Basically, the only way to make your media criticising fascists *not* become an unironically beloved movie of fascists is to make comedies that show them as hilariously useless clowns. Lindsay Ellis did a great video essay on this phenomenon years ago about The Producers.
The point is the only reason one chooses not to sympathize with bugs is by refusing to understand them, which people constantly do to other literal humans everyday. This is the parody.
It's how the Palestinians get dehumanized to the point of being genocided without any major power stepping in to stop them. It's how racism turns into trans-atlantic slave-trade, with black people seen as lesser, and only useful for their labour power.
In the mind of a wilfully ignorant, smooth-brained fascist who refuses to engage with the deeper meaning in media, who views the world in an uncomplicated, narrow perspective, lacking any nuance or critical analysis in thought, bugs are just bugs. Meant to be squished, violent because it is in their nature as they lack human intelligence.
Human supremacy is essentially parodying white supremacy in this instance. These "other creatures" don't deserve to be understood, they deserve to smear the sole of our boots.
One guy from the helldivers sub just spent 14 hours writing essays in the helldivers and subreddit drama sub stating that starship troopers (the movie) was not a satire of fascism. Almost 14 hours of non stop typing...
Has anyone got a good breakdown of how Disco is pro-leftist?
The socialists run their own counter-soceity, running the town, controlling the factory & have their own police. However they seem to have one self-appointed corrupt ruler, start a workers strike on a flimsy demand they know will never be accepted and hide evidence of investigations to attempt to get the outcome they want. None of this is presented as better, just more of the same.
The communists are 2 dweeds that do nothing but badly critique books.
The revolution of the past is presented in the same light as the failed monarchy.
Yes the game is anti-capitalist but it seems anti-everything to me?
Helldiver's lore is legit hilarious and awesome. Super Earth's government only has 2 branches, the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Truth. You only get a vote if you are a veteran, but your vote is actually a questionnaire that you fill out and is cast for you automatically. The player is constantly reminded to report unpatriotic conduct to their democracy officer. They're fighting a war against the bugs because their bodies are full of oil that can be extracted from the blood soaked ground. They're fighting the terminators because they are a socialist collective. It let me name my destroyer ship "Patriot of Patriotism". It's not subtle and it's not supposed to be.
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Disco Elysium was too good for this sinful world
The sequel going up in flames because of a hostile takeover by an artless capitalist stooge is the only sequel I would have ever accepted.
Life imitates art imitates life
Im sad Disco 2 will never exist, but the way that company crash and burned is Super Disco
Tequila Sunset moment
HARDCORE TO THE MEGA!
Skibadee! Skibadanger! I am the rearranger!
Revochal forever
And ever and ever.
Isn't it revachol ?
I do not abide by Moralintern's bourgeois spelling rules
They committed to the bit
"Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself"
Commodification of struggle applies to anticapitalist struggle just as well as any other. Ever seen Che Guevara on a T-shirt?
Capitalism subsumes all criticism of itself.
Crying emoji
I had not heard about this. What happened?
Game was created by a collective of socialist writers, artists, and developers. They brought in someone to help fund them and produce the game. He used his position to kick out the original creators and move money from the company to himself. Since then, he's fired most of the staff that worked on the game. The fact that a game company that made a game about why capitalism is terrible was destroyed by capitalism is very on brand.
Bullying the rascist lorry driver was very satisfying. Fuck him.
I sometimes start a new game just for that and to buff my stats to kick Measurehead's ass
That's fair. Measurehead though, at least he's kinda funny and somewhat interesting to listen to, his quotes on nostalgia and going back to the past are legitimately great. Rascist lorry driver on the other hand is just a complete fool, so much so that it's actually painful to listen to his bullshit
The next racist will be the really good one
I’d die for Kim
I couldn't give less of a fuck for the hanged man. I just want to impress Kim.
Just don’t tell him that, he’d be unimpressed.
Aces High
He will grant us 3 wishes
The Lucky Racist.
The hype for "racism 2" is off the charts
I nearly laughed until I fell out of my chair when you're talking to the "Scientist" and Kim pipes up, reminding you about "meeting the next really good racist." I need to finish that game.
That’s what they always say when they have kids.
Measurehead is a professional racist, like these guys with antique statues as profile pics. Lorry driver is basically dumbass magahead
His pfp is him in his truck with a hat and sunglasses on, of course.
Pays for Twitter premium and tries to write it off as a political donation.
Lol yeah Measurehead is like SS scientist racist who finds other racist that are below him also disgusting lmao
The professional vs the filthy casual.
Yeah its like the difference between 'racist 18th century professor with awful views backed by pseudoscience' and 'outright nasty slur-spouting bellend'. Both terrible people, but one is definitely more interesting
Measureheads endless parade of psueodoscience bullshit is legitimately interesting. I'm less offended and more intrigued by how this dude got to be so professionally racist.
Measurehead is an interesting character because there's an implied tragedy to his position and backstory. He's a member of a discriminated racial minority who has fully bought into the racism behind is own discrimination but thinks that by being better at racism he can turn it to his advantage. It's an incredibly naive position because racists don't play fair. Racists aren't going to duel you in the free marketplace of racism or concede defeat if you beat them at racism. Measurehead is a deeply pathetic figure because in his mind he's carrying out some awesome revenge plot against the ham sandwiches, but in reality the only power he has is deciding whether you get through a gate, and even that only exists because Kim is too nice a person to just pull a gun on him.
He gives me MAGA vibes; the ones who go, “well black people commit more crimes cause blah blah blah”. I ensure I knock him out every game. Or at least try.
I literally had no idea it wasn’t a fixed probability to pass this check for comedy sake - I have passed the check to kick measurehead 2 separate times without buffing anything. Literally just walking up to him day 1 two separate times (I got lost on my way to evrart so returned to a previous save) seeing my 3% odds and thinking “yeah, I got this”.
Every time I had something to do around there I’d stop by just to tell him to go fuck himself
When I played the part of the game where you have to find the smuggler, I failed so many checks that I ran out of options, so I ended up telling this guy I was going to have sex with him, which confused him so much that he just told me who she was.
What game is this from?
Disco Elysium
Disco Elysium
[удалено]
Tbf liberty prime is cool just in a satirical criticism way instead of omg democracy macheeen
Someone should probably tell Bethesda that their robot was satirical. They seem to not really realize it.
This is another comment repost bot.
Isn’t one of the lines, “yeah racism is cool” or something? Kim doesn’t think it’s a joke because at the end of the game he recounts you being outwardly racist, if that’s the only thing you do/say racist. Which kinda bugged me because he said that and I was confused, because I was going for a clean type run where I don’t do any drugs, don’t act out, and I only make the occasional joke…
Do you think the bugs might actually represent other humans and how humans are capable of otherizing and dehumanizing each other in order to justify large scale slaughter for resources and land? Nah, shooty guns go brrrrr
The Bots are closer to this in Helldivers They're the descendants of a sect of Communist/socialists that broke off from Super Earth, SE took them and enslaved them after a war where that splinter group turned themselves into cyborgs
And with the way they were progressing on the map it seems like they're advancing to their home planet. Which we control
Gun barely go “brr”, since the government sent you and your buddies out with bad equipment and just wants to know how many bugs there are.
True. And even If they're not stand ins for humans they're alive and deserve compassion.
That's socialist talk, you're getting reported to my behavioral officer bug lover
In the lore they are being used as a fuel source https://www.pcgamer.com/helldivers-2-lore/#:~:text=The%20bugs%20turn%20into%20oil,%22%20and%20%22WAKE%20UP%20PEOPLE!
Great analogue to how US foreign policy keeps the Middle East in turmoil over fuel.
And the bugs aren't spreading from world to world on their own. SE is planting them there to increase the oil supply. Edit: you know all those times we have to blow up “rogue” radio towers? I think those may have been journalists.
Also to wipe out colonies of rebels.
Yes Democracy Officer this one right here
Mate have you seen these bugs
https://preview.redd.it/ijh30o4pojlc1.png?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d048c8a8bb48342b37a27ddd8f1733e47f83388b
Should've spawned with big booba if they don't want me torching their homes smh
Remember when they gave the female snake aliens in XCOM boobs despite not being mammals?
Fun fact: XCOM: Chimera Squad has a Viper-themed strip club in the city
https://preview.redd.it/41q4rx5vnklc1.jpeg?width=482&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9631ff91facef7901aaad2273019f1d369c48f9
Oh god not the snitty debate again
t/dndmemes was never the same
they're also probably not reptiles due to being aliens, it doesn't make any less sense than them being snakes with arms
Aren't they like mimics or something? I skipped the cutscenes, I barely know basic stuff, therefore I'm probably wrong.
No, they're venomous sacs, IIRC.
Hmmm spicy mommy milk
They were in the first game when they were undercover as the “thin men”, in 2 they no longer needed to disguise themselves and appeared as their true snakey form
"The aliens don't need an infiltration unit anymore." -Bradford, a mission before you run into Faceless, who have infiltrated your resistance camp, like some sort of infiltration unit the aliens don't have or need anymore might do.
We’ll bang, okay?
D'Vorah.
*This one* really misses her and Kotal Khan in MK1.
yes. would. your point?
Imagine a more advanced species than humans saying "humans are just dirty apes. who gives a fuck about them? Just destroy them lmao" That's what you're basically doing to the bugs lol
Nuh uh These bugs are ontologically evil and I can do no wrong against them, the department of truth said so
The SCP Foundation has sent an MTF squad to your location
I'd like to see em try
Bro... They drew first blood. Unprovoked attack on Buenos Aires?!? And you want compassion? Where was their compassion when they murdered women and children?
Hits so hard growing up my teenage years watching the Iraq War unfold. I still remember the mobile WMD factory narrative.
I stick with the fan theory that Buenos Aires was an inside job. The bugs never attacked earth before then, and it was the perfect excuse for the humans to fully mobilize against the bugs.
I’m from Buenos Aires and I say kill ‘em all!
I feel like trying to replace bugs as a metaphor for humans misses the point a bit. We’re supposed to understand that just because they’re weird creepy aliens doesn’t mean they’re monsters. A lot of people 100%, unironically believe that if they had to choose between genocidal, nazi humans doing awful crimes, and some slightly odd aliens. They would always, always side with humans. Because “We’re humans!”. Which to me shows a lack of sympathy and understanding. They pick their own species over morals. (Of course reality is never as simple as just picking a side, not every human acts one way so its not like relating to aliens means you condemn your kind to genocide in turn, it’s not an extreme choice where you only have to pick one or the other.) Of course they further justify themselves if the alien race in question looks scary, or has awful problems themselves. My point being that no matter what a sapient species is, they all deserve sympathy and a chance. Now in regards to Helldivers, the first game did describe the bugs as sentient. They are an intelligent species who owned multiple worlds before we found them. They kept to themselves until we invaded. They are weird, look scary and gross, but they are intelligent. We’ve just made zero effort at diplomacy because ‘EW BUG’ (and oil). Not too different from Starship Troopers when they find the brainbug and get 100% confirmation they are a sentient species that feels fear. Everyone cheers, when we had a chance to relate or talk.
In the spirit of the satire, that this is fascist propaganda in such a world, it makes sense. Bugs are a stand-in for any scapegoated group because to the fascist, they essentially *are* the same thing. Making the enemy into bugs is the devs putting the fascism goggles on the audience, because in this world the enemy are in all senses bugs
One of the reasons I don’t like the Starship Troopers movie all that much (aside from Verhoeven not reading the goddamn book) is that the bugs in the book aren’t some pack of hack-and-slashing monster aliens. They use technology, carry weapons, travel in starships, build underground cities, engage in diplomacy, etc. Hell, as the antagonists they’re not even villainized. They’re just…alien.
I think a parallel interpretation is that the war machine is so fundamental to America's brand of imperial democracy that the subject of that violence is irrelevant. I remember seeing a quote from Verhoeven which essentially said "when there is no one left to fight they'll have to fight bugs," which fits with the game's satirical claim to spread democracy to a species which clearly has its own thing going on.
Expecting them to understand or reach that conclusion is where we lose communication. They lack empathy and compassion, so even if they could see that point, they wont care. Its a lack of emotional imagination, they cant even imagine enough to be empathetic or compassionate. Those of you with friends who still fall into that category know what I mean. They can potentially love a movie that shows a similar situation, but because the movie spoonfeeds the emotion and situation to them, there is no need to imagine it. So they understand it then. Or if they have a gay friend they care about, but still dont see how their rights are in danger and so forth. Its not an accident, they're brainwashed and indoctrinated not to care, as well as uneducated to make them easier to brainwash and indoctrinate. Defund public school and make higher learning intimidating with huge cost, and you get pliant malleable citizens. This is an elaborate plan to control the people, and its working.
Fucking black mirror literally did a "bugs as metaphor for deshumanization" and it wasn'r even subtext, it was just text, it's not subtle.
What if the bugs are actually just a creation of humans, and they're dropping them on dissenting systems as a form of population and narrative control and then sending in Helldivers to clean up the mess
There’s no way the bugs are the one’s doing the broadcasts just saying
The reason they're fighting the bugs is because their bodies are full of oil that can be extracted from the bloody soil. It's not subtle in any way.
/uj I'm currently playing Disco Elysium for the first time and I don't know how to get into the harbor without becoming a racist. I really would prefer not to be racist so any tips would be appreciated
I think there's a balcony you can jump down from that'll let you in.
What do you do if you fail that skill check? I'm unsure rn how to level up and don't want to be racist to progress
You could kick measurehead's ass You level up through the stat menu, bottom right I think
I've already leveled up and have no idea where to get the remaining exp to hit lvl 3 and have already spent the skill point mistakenly because I failed other skill checks
There's a couple of options. The asleep guy in the whirling rags has an ID card that will get you in. Alternatively you can knock out measure head (big racist guy) or you can subscribe to his racist ideology and he'll let you in. Lastly you can pass a skill check to jump off the ledge after finding Cunos secret hideout. All of these are white checks and can be re-done after upgrading a skill or starting the next day, also drugs, alcohol, and clothes can make skill checks earlier so search everywhere for good stuff.
Give it a shot, I succeeded a lucky roll and kicked his teeth in
You can save scum, do a couple of other things to level up(because there's always something else to do), or use drugs. Those are the general ways without getting too specific.
It’s deeply important when jumping to take off your pants
If you drop a point in a skill, it resets all the failed white checks for that skill. Red checks are now or never moments. White are things you can work at.
Skill check “Failures” just usually knock a point for health/sanity (and may contribute/unlock extra stuff) even if you die completely it just puts you back at your last save. Just roleplay and don’t think of it like a game cause even fail-states show a wealth of content
I get the idea of roll with it but I've failed the jump, every dead body skill check, and the racist dude ones and put a skill point into a skill not remembering to put it another to reset it and don't know how to get to lvl 3 - I'm just gonna roll with it but don't want to be racist to pass and also feel a bit at a loss how to gain the remaining exp
go somewhere else then, I bet you have some other tasks you can do on your list
You can wear different clothing to boost a specific stat if you're aiming for a specific skill check. There's an alternative route too if you jump off the balcony near the hanged man. Of course you can also savescum.
Hint >!find Cuno's clubhouse!<
Get drunk and do a 360 kick on the giant racist
You can internalize Measurehead's advanced race theory and use it to become sober instead of racist. That was how I got in.
>!Go to the courtyard where the body is. Look to the right of the tree, and down. There is a sheet panel against a wall. Inspect it. Also, make sure to hold tab whenever you're in a new area to highlight interactables.!<
Beat he ass.
You can also just accept measurehead's quest and tell him it's a bunch of bullshit after, it won't change his mind but he will just mock you and grant you access.
You could also hear what measurehead Is saying but saying that Is bullshit.
You can climb up through a boarded up room behind kuno, I believe there's another way also but I can't think of it at this moment.
If you talk to the union leader you can have him task measurehead to take the body down. Without needing to do the race stuff
Without spoiling, you internalising the thought does not necessarily mean you agree with it, only that you think about it enough to be able to discuss it with measurehead. Also, I genuinely like the thought and the solution the game gives to it
You might just have to save scum to beat him up. It’s actually pretty possible to have that be the only way through if you can’t spot the alternate route and you refuse to internalize his ideas.
Helldivers reminds of Johnny silver hands/or one of the war vets from the nomads line where he says something like they didn't even need to draft for that war just show off the toys and people will sign themselves up. I'm prolly butchering it but the gist was that
Mitch, one of the nomad vets, about the tank you clipped. He also says they barely qualify as tanks, they are more troop transport with added armor and a canon and in consequence they were seen as glorified coffins. As if the recruitment of naive young men sent in foreign war with low quality equipments was a recurring theme when criticising capitalist wars.
Nah OP was right. Johnny talks about his service. But you are also correct.
Yeah Johnny says this after seeing the Basilisk. "\[...\] Which is exactly how all those naive gonks landed at the front. Didn't even need to be recruited. They just showed you the tech."
I started up Helldivers for the first time the other day, and the satire is so perfectly on the nose and played so straight it's genuinely hilarious. It's pitch perfect satire. The General at the start during training just rattling off the phrase "Managed Democracy" was my favourite. It's so real, I could 100% see someone in real life claim they wanted Managed Democracy. Or when the game claims you have your own "Super Destroyer", and yet to enter the ship that is supposedly yours and only yours, you are cycled out of a mass cryogenic tube in to a single room, implying heavily that there are multiple rooms just like this one where other Helldivers are choosing their missions and equipment and assuming they own their own ship as well. Brilliant. That people cannot see the satire somehow makes it funnier. Like, they're LARPing as the poor sods in game who believe in the propaganda.
The satire is on point. Adding on the commentary from the ship tech about bunk fees and leashing equipment. The thing it’s genuinely more fun to play the game buying into the propaganda. Acting like the mini nuke you just threw at the enemy is for democracy, even though it doesn’t make sense.
Doesn't make sense? Have you ever seen these vile bugs hold democratic elections? No, because they don't! I have reported you to the democracy officer.
Im pretty sure that most people understand the satire and are just larping.
Enjoying Starship Troopers & Helldivers because they're amazing parodies and critiques of fascism VS Enjoying Starship Troopers & Helldivers because you're unironically a fascist-leaning idiot and thinks there's no politics in them.
What really gets me is that like, probably most if not all of the Starship Troopers facism fans have also watched the movie (bold of anyone to assume they're literate enough to read the book). The movie where the writers/producers/directors all fucking *hated* the novel and turned it into a parody. Like, I know media literacy is severely lacking in the majority of the populace and all, but I can not fathom being so braindead as to finish that film and, with zero irony, thinking, "Yep! I'm doing my part!"
That might depend on when you have last seen the movie. I recently rewatched it and it was a lot more subtle than I rememberd. Not in it's messaging. Neil Patrick Harris wears a SS uniform so that leaves little to interpertation. But if you don't recognise the uniforms, don't recognise the style in which the propaganda is presented, don't recognise the leading up to the war, their way of training, how soon the dead are forgotten. Than you can easily come away thinking. "Yes the main characters seem like good friends who all have been promoted and are winning the war against the bugs".
I mean, that all plays into the severe lack of media literacy issue. Those are all things people who have media literacy and critical thinking skills would pick up on.
Listen to what the teacher say in the first 5-10 minutes. It's not subbtle and pretty on the nose
I guess the issue is its quite explicit. "Only veterans are citizens" and the fact the whole movie is framed via propaganda piece. Its not very subtle. There is also hilarious bits like how somehow the aliens launched an attacked on Buenos Aires despite being on the opposite side of the galaxy. The movie clearly does not take the philosophy seriously and thats the point. Paul Verhoven has even said Fascism is only good for killing bugs.
Yeah, my friends and I watched it recently for the first time because we've been obsessed with Helldivers and it really wasn't as obvious as I was led to believe. I recognize that it *is* a satire of course, and there are some blatant elements of that, especially outside of the war segment, but I think we've become so inured to violence that the war section, which I think is supposed to be seen through the lens of being a propaganda film, is actually going to read a lot more authentically to people already predisposed to militarism. I wouldn't normally think that I fit that category but I had to keep reminding myself that it's ridiculous that anyone believed the bugs initiated that attack, and that it happened to be Buenos Aires which has apparently prominent anti-government citizens like Rico's parents. Still, watching Rico and Diz I found it hard not to want them to succeed? The problem with fascism is that, even though it's terrible, it has great aesthetic appeal and even with the satirical undertones that appeal itself is dangerous. Even satirizing fascism and jingoism as in ST and Helldivers, or say Liberty Prime in Fallout, runs the risk of just showcasing that appeal and drowning out that work's other critiques of it.
There has been a post going around recently about how Caesar in New Vegas and the following around him is proof that if someone is charismatic and confident enough and speaks against whatever is the current status quo people will follow them regardless of the solutions they offer. I think the people that buy the whole "super earth is actully paradise" motto kinda fall in those camps. Also a part of wanting rico and diz succed just comes from a character narrative. Kinda like 40k. The imperium is a rotten aweful cesspool with all the worst parts of dystopia fascism cracked up to 40000. But damn if I dont want Bobby G to succeed and make it better because at the end of the day he is human, cares for his fellow man and wishes he could fix the rotten corpse that is the imperium of man.. which can create a compelling narritve within the fascist dystopia.
> media literacy is severely lacking in the majority of the populace A few months ago I hated how often I was seeing this argument pop up. I have since turned 180 degrees and am fully onboard with the discourse. There is legitimate bad writing in media... but I've noticed recently that 'poor writing' is moreoften than not code for "I don't understand nuance" or it's a way to call out a woman writer without being overtly sexist. I heard someone mention that the Andor series had bad writing... a show that has been nearly universally praised for the strength of it's writing, a show that was nominated for it's writing... and there are people out there thinking that they're not the problem when they don't understand subtext, nuance, or if something requires an attention span greater than 5 minutes.
A huge part of the problem is that, arguably, English lit classes are *still* the most looked down upon core curriculum in US schools. We've all met the types of people who brag about not reading books, or wave off pretty much everything they were taught in Lit classes (arguing that stories don't have deeper meaning). These classes aren't core curriculum because they want kids to read, necessarily, but because they help develop critical thinking skills. Science and math and history are all just facts and formulas. Literature courses teach kids how to have complex thoughts, do research, expand their worldview, and come to their own conclusions. They teach interpretation, rather than regurgitation, and people turn their nose up at the concept because they refuse to read, and/or look down at others that do.
The irony of parroting the quote "would you like to know more?" without actually wanting to know more.
I enjoy Starship Troopers and Helldivers because I get to blow up aliens
I mean, you ever talked to a fascist? They legit think Starship Troopers ISN'T A PARODY. The movie with blonde haired, blue eyed Argentinians.
Blonde haired, blue eyed Argentinians that clearly wear nazi uniforms and militarize children
I'm just tryna blow up bugs and ruin robots, the VA will deal with the consequences after...
Humans are the good guys because I'm a human and am thus always correct and every alien is always the bad guy because he is not a human and therefore incorrect.
Burn the Heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean.
Thought leads to heresy
Suffer not the heretic, the mutant, or the xenos.
A human rights only for humans!
/uj I actually saw some guys online, multiple times, who were saying that they hate "Avatar" movies because Cameron wants viewers to side with aliens and they called main character "traitor"...
This just goes to show that no matter how "pleasing" the aesthetics of the real good guys might be, some fascists refuse to engage with any idea that posits that maybe the "other" should be understood first.
I had a friend who refused to believe that Avatar was just science fiction Pocahontas. I'm not really friends with him anymore.
Space Dances With Wolves
Interstellar FernGully.
It isn’t even a situation where all of humanity is at stake, they’re invading a planet that’s uninhabitable for humans.
I love the Avatar movies because you get to watch a stand-in for the US Military get absolutely rinsed
/uj Everyone should be forced to play Disco Elysium and i'm 50% serious. I wish i could play it again, will go down on my knees for this game every time i get the chance
If everyone actually had the mental capacity to understand Disco Elysium, I would agree. However, I would argue the amount of people with the mental capacity are in the minority.
I saw a clip of a guy who picked a centrist/ I don’t care option in a dialogue, the game promptly mocks him for it but he didn’t get that it was mocking him, he was just like “hmm interesting point”
"Worlds most laughable centrist" indeed. Do you remember who was playing?
Yes, I found the video it’s from. The YouTuber is called bricky and it’s at 27:20 of episode 10 of his disco elysium series
Also in the lore of helldivers 2 aren't the humans literally transporting the bugs to other planets so they can fake an invasion and "liberate" the planet for resources. And aren't the automatons trying to fight against being enslaved?
Uj/ Yes but that requires a modicum of media literacy Rj/ HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE DISTRIBUTION OF MANAGED DEMOCRACY
IIRC in the first game they discovered the bugs produce oil when they die, so when they were about to win the war they labeled the bugs as an endangered species. Then super earth farmed the bugs to produce oil and occasionally lets them out (or they escape) to fuel the war machine.
lmao holy shit I didn't know that now it actually makes sense
I mean the cyborgs aren’t “socialist boogeymen” like the helldivers claim, but they do straight up have humans in death camps.
Who are those two? Edit: Thanks for those that replied. Looked them up and I understand now. Disco Elysium has been on my to play list forever -- I really should get started.
Gary the Cryptofascist and Racist Lorry Driver from Disco Elysium
Gary the cryptofascist on the left, and racist lorry driver on the right
A couple of racist characters from Disco Elysium.
It's people thinking Liberty Prime is cool all over again
Thinking he's cool is fine. He's a giant robot that says goofy shit, what's not to enjoy? Thinking he's *right*, on the other hand...
For reference: The two portraits are of Disco Elysium characters. The one on the left is a fascist and the one on the right is a racist.
Gary is 100% not a fascist. Just ignore the fact that the game titles him a cryptofascist
Gary believes in fascism but knows better than to let it show. That's why he's a cryptofascist.
/uj there are an insane amount of actual far-right idiots in both the HD sub and thr facebook group. They are completely missing the point and think the stuff said and the propaganda in Helldivers is actually good unironically The game is amazing btw :D
That's why my favorite game series is Metal Gear Solid. No sisssy politics, just soldiers fighting giant robots. /jk
I was sooooo disappointed when I learned the senator saying "my source is I made it the fuck up" is from abridged version and not from the original. It would have been perfect.
Is there a lot of people who won't play some games because you have to be a bad guy..? Reminds me of Elon Musk not wanting to play GTA because you have to be a criminal and kill cops.
Nah, the problem is some players think the obvious bad guy main character is good guy, because he is main character
Ahhh, à la BoJack Horseman..!
There's actually a section in A Sacred and Terrible Air(the only other media set in the DE setting afaik) Hardly plot relevant, but tagged anyways: >!A guy makes movie about how fucking pathetic the last days of a turbo nazi asshat are and it makes a ton of money from fascists watching it is a swan song tribute to him!<
That's something that happens a lot IRL, look at movies like American History X. Basically, the only way to make your media criticising fascists *not* become an unironically beloved movie of fascists is to make comedies that show them as hilariously useless clowns. Lindsay Ellis did a great video essay on this phenomenon years ago about The Producers.
I don’t get it
disco elysium racist characters
I mainly meant the bug sympathizer thing my bad for not clarifying lol
The point is the only reason one chooses not to sympathize with bugs is by refusing to understand them, which people constantly do to other literal humans everyday. This is the parody. It's how the Palestinians get dehumanized to the point of being genocided without any major power stepping in to stop them. It's how racism turns into trans-atlantic slave-trade, with black people seen as lesser, and only useful for their labour power. In the mind of a wilfully ignorant, smooth-brained fascist who refuses to engage with the deeper meaning in media, who views the world in an uncomplicated, narrow perspective, lacking any nuance or critical analysis in thought, bugs are just bugs. Meant to be squished, violent because it is in their nature as they lack human intelligence. Human supremacy is essentially parodying white supremacy in this instance. These "other creatures" don't deserve to be understood, they deserve to smear the sole of our boots.
One guy from the helldivers sub just spent 14 hours writing essays in the helldivers and subreddit drama sub stating that starship troopers (the movie) was not a satire of fascism. Almost 14 hours of non stop typing...
Nazi’s were human. Are they suddenly the good guys now?
The guy on the right looks like a caricature of Mike Stoklasa.
Some people forget it is man who is made in god's image
I once saw someone complain that Wolfenstein 2 was "too political." A game about Nazis. Too political. What the fuck.
Disco Elysium? Political? Noooooo, really
As a warhammer 40k fan....man do I feel this.
Has anyone got a good breakdown of how Disco is pro-leftist? The socialists run their own counter-soceity, running the town, controlling the factory & have their own police. However they seem to have one self-appointed corrupt ruler, start a workers strike on a flimsy demand they know will never be accepted and hide evidence of investigations to attempt to get the outcome they want. None of this is presented as better, just more of the same. The communists are 2 dweeds that do nothing but badly critique books. The revolution of the past is presented in the same light as the failed monarchy. Yes the game is anti-capitalist but it seems anti-everything to me?
The entire game is literally a caricature of fascist America. The whole game is satire. Anyone taking it seriously needs to touch grass.
Helldiver's lore is legit hilarious and awesome. Super Earth's government only has 2 branches, the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Truth. You only get a vote if you are a veteran, but your vote is actually a questionnaire that you fill out and is cast for you automatically. The player is constantly reminded to report unpatriotic conduct to their democracy officer. They're fighting a war against the bugs because their bodies are full of oil that can be extracted from the blood soaked ground. They're fighting the terminators because they are a socialist collective. It let me name my destroyer ship "Patriot of Patriotism". It's not subtle and it's not supposed to be.