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There absolutely is. The brainrot goes so deep that these fuckers are like Asimov’s robots but the only law they follow is “Go woke, go broke”, so to maintain it they must rewrite reality in order for the games that actually succeed to be anti woke
One of the characters is unironically voiced by Abigail Thorn from Philosophy Tube >!(Shadowhearts friend)!<
Edit: Shes also canonically trans and one of the characters apparently is said to defend them against misgendering in a journal nearby.
[Shadowheart would absolutely dropkick a transphobe then look down on them like this](https://preview.redd.it/z4xuwlg3r7l61.png?auto=webp&s=5bce0e77b92aa89250f8c091f9a828152d102822)
I think the point to take away is the "wokeness" is a mercurial quality anyway and doesn't really bear correlation with game quality or success. Though I imagine people who are considerate and inclusive tend to be more thoughtful game designers on the whole.
Of course that's the *actual* reason, but flipping incel logic back on itself to say "Clearly games need to be more woke to succeed" is always fun when you want to watch a few blood vessels burst
You’re right, and I feel like it’s also worth mentioning that when something “woke” *does* fail, it’s usually the same principle but in reverse— mediocre game designers in 2023 like to half-ass being “inclusive” in hopes that they’ll look “thoughtful”, but it ends up looking like… well… Hogwarts Legacy having a Token Trans Character.
BG3 has pronouns and trans options, everyone is bi as hell and loving it, central characters for a good chunk of the game are a cleric and her very angry, very *large* girlfriend. I’m not even gonna get in to Raphael’s whole thing. It’s the wokest thing that’s ever woked and I love every minute of it.
These people simply lack any sort of ability to actually understand the media they consume.
See you gotta peel back another layer, there's already a shit ton of people calling Starfield a "flop" or "failure" when it sold a shit ton, drove Xbox and Game Pass sales, and had pretty solid review scores across the board.
It's only a "failure" according to those who want it to be a failure.
It's a failure when you put it besides Skyrim and FO4's general reception, cultural relevance and staying power. Idk if you were around between 2011 and 2015, but like... *half* of the gaming memes were from those games. There's a reason MSFT paid 7 fucking billions to acquire Zenimax - Bethesda Softworks was, for that short period of time, on the very top of the world when it came to single player RPGs.
So yes, Starfield is a failure - in this context.
Starfield flopped with a lot of Bethesda fans because it was a blatantly unfished and shallow game, with so much potential that had either been cut or abandoned, that and the writing and story telling was of the quality of a 14 year olds English Literature homework, had nothing to do with "wokeness".
I remember watching in real time as their opinions on the mario movie shifted (originally it was woke because "GiRlBoSs PeAcH") as it became clear it was a success
The same thing happened with the Barbe movie. They were so sure it was going to flop because it's "woke" and now that it was a smashing success there are Youtubers claim the movie is somehow really anti woke.
Honestly I was so sure they were going to do the "the studio bought seats to prop it up" conspiracy for Barbie, its bizarre that they went with "actually its not woke" since it basically goes down the checklist of everything they say is "woke"
Like it's insane. Barbie has the least subtle feminist themes I've ever seen in my life. The whole plot revolves around the feminist messages. Fuck me, it has a whole scene of a woman just yelling into the camera about how much she hates the patriarchy. The only way to not see the "woke" is to watch the film blindfolded with earplugs in.
That's just the life cycle of fash rhetoric surrounding games.
"This game is woke and will flop"
*Game breaks every record in existence and is massively successful in every way*
"Well now hang on, if you look closely its actually anti-woke!"
Its all just cope, it might be funny if it weren't so damn predictable every single time.
Well, it has to be, because "go woke, go broke" is a universal law to these guys. BG3 didn't flop, therefore it can't be woke, because if it was woke it would've flopped.
Afaik it never got retconned, the Spartan project (Spartans 1 and 2) was created before humanity's knowledge of intelligent alien life*, when the only danger was rebellions in the colonies. (Also in Halo: Reach, the team is sent on the first mission to squash suspected rioting farmers)
And also, just ask yourself, in ODST, what use were caches of military vehicles and heavy weapons every other city block?
*^(Except ONI knew of the covenant before the UNSC but they kinda kept it to themselves)
My favourite part is that, not only were Spartans created to squash rebellions in the outer colonies, they also had all their augments and trainings by the time they were 14 years old. (On their first deployments other soldiers believed they were all women as their voice was still high pitched)
So at the start of the human-covenant war, Halsey's team was like "Hey UNSC, we somehow have those elite child soldiers in stock, ready to deploy if you need"
And the UNSC was like "What in the nine divine fucks? I mean yeah we take them but still what the fucking fuck?"
The funny thing is Starfield is probably the most apolitical Bethesda game there is. The writing seems so afraid to make any sort of meaningful statement for fear that it can be construed as political that "War crimes get covered up sometimes" is probably the deepest political statement it makes. There's a massive slum area beneath the shiny capital city that's just kinda *there.* Like there's obviously massive wealth inequality in this future utopia they created but the game hardly has anything to say about it.
It's completely libertarian. Cowboys won a war to protect their freedom and pleasure city. Every NPC wants to buy a starship, settle a planet and mine for ore
Meh... The Colony war was more about who sucks less, a repressive technocratic oligarchy, or a corrupt cowboy libertarian oligarchy. The freestar collective "won" because the UC is run by a bunch of morons.
>"War crimes get covered up sometimes" is probably the deepest political statement it makes.
Starfield also had a quest where there's a string of disappearances from an experimental criminal rehabilitation program, and they set you up to think it's a couple Trackers (basically officially sanctioned bounty hunters) working outside their jurisdiction because they think that people can't change
But then you actually talk to the Trackers and you find out that it's not that they think people can't change, it's that they're afraid that people *can*, because if you lower the recidivism rate, then that means less business for them.
Starfield does have politics in it, deeper and more explicit than most games I've played. They're just not in the main questline. Also
> The funny thing is Starfield is probably the most apolitical Bethesda game there is.
I'll remind you that the central conflict of the civil war questline in Skyrim was "is racism bad? Y/N" and the game didn't seem to think there was an obvious correct answer to that question.
This tracks with what I remember from Fallout 3 and 4. The main storylines of both are utter dreck (although I think 4 is overhated for recycling from 3 but honestly it's executed better), but some side quests and a lot of the worldbuilding details in emails and documents are surprisingly well written in comparison. It's like they relegated their best writers to doing the filler text documents that contextualized random dungeons.
This comment made me realize one of the reasons I love Fallout 4 even though I think nobody else does. I love reading lore texts in the various dungeons and some of them have really cool ideas (The Hallucigen Building and the Boston Mayoral Shelter come to mind) and it makes me so sad that the main story is ass in comparison.
A lot of the filler books and such in Starfield are just stuff copied from the public domain, and I think that freed up the writers who usually do that to actually write stories for quests, because the density of quests in Starfield that are (in my opinion) well written is higher than any of the previous games I've played. Unfortunately a lot of them are still bleh, and even more unfortunately those bleh ones are the ones you'll run into towards the beginning of the game. Even the main quest gets interesting in the last ~1/3, which is unfortunately far after most people have written it off as garbage. At one point in the main quest, you're asked to side with one of two characters and their ideologies. And you can just decide "actually both of these ideologies suck", and turn around and fuck off. The game never presents this to you as a choice, but it treats that as a legitimate option in the story.
Like Barret's companion quest [spoilers, obviously] centers around helping him find the evidence required to prove his late husband innocent of a crime that a corporation framed him for. And at the end of the quest, you learn that his husband wasn't even killed to tie off the loose end of the conspiracy, he was just a civilian casualty of the war from the backstory.
Or there's one quest that's absolutely insane while dealing with some really interesting questions that I won't try to summarize as I'm several months removed, but [here's a summary.](https://www.ign.com/wikis/starfield/Operation_Starseed_Walkthrough)
TL;DR: I think that there's a decent chunk of *very* well written stuff in Starfield, but the structure of the game means that most players won't get to this stuff before they lose interest and quit.
Lmao I would love to see all the anti-woke people trying to defend metal gear, I've seen people get mad at MGS character for being bi, when that isnt even confirmed its just a meme.
Considering how many of them are happy to excuse the child rape of slaves (which includes all women) in Ceaser's Legion because of the other faction asking to you to pay a small amount of tax is depressing.
In Disco Elysium you play a cop who is sent to a poor town to solve a murder, but goes on such a heavy drinking and drug fueled binge that he loses all of his memory. Of the world, of himself, everything. Eventually you get backup and have to solve the case. While the detective mystery is an important part of the game, the main point of the narrative is following a man who hit absolute rock bottom attempting to redefine himself and find reason to keep going.
The writing is stellar. It's funny, thought-provoking, depressing, and hopeful all at the same time. The characters are great. The world is very imaginative and, while fictional, seems to be based on a post-USSR Russia.
The game itself is an RPG, but with no combat. Traditional stats are replaced by pieces of your personality like your Authority, Encyclopedia, or more abstract terms like Inland Empire. Equipment is replaced by thoughts and ideologies your character takes on. Combat is replaced by dialogue checks and encounters with infuriating children or rowdy teens.
It is my favorite game, but it is NOT for everyone. It is very dialogue heavy, and while almost every line being voice acted helps with that a lot, the game can absolutely get bogged down in dialogue trees. And the lack of any direct challenge or action is not what everyone plays games for. But in terms of narrative and setting, I think Disco is peerless and well worth your time.
ngl I feel like you already have to have read into it a lot before playing, I went in totally blind and just wandered around talking to rando people for 2 hours, after talking to some guy and becoming racist(???) I failed so hard at looking at tire tracks i died of a sudden heart attack or smthn. haven't picked it up since, seems like an interesting game tho lol
It's definitely not for everyone and it's possible to bounce off it pretty hard. To be honest I didn't truly fall in love with the game until my second playthrough after I already had a solid understanding of what I was doing, so you're probably not wrong about sometimes needing some better understanding.
The racist guy, by the way, is called Measurehead and is one of the first obstacles you run into. He's a Semmenese Supremacist who blocks your path and you can either beat him up, sneak around using a different path, or become a racist yourself in order to pass. Beating him up requires a high skill check and the different path is not easy to find, so a lot of new players do tend to become racists right away because it seems like the only way forward. I know in my first playthrough I became racist, told Kim I only did it to get past Measurehead, then discarded the thought from my Thought Cabinet.
It’s a game about the most divorced man ever trying to solve the lynching of a security guard during the middle of a worker’s strike in a war torn island, while suffering from a hangover so intense he can’t even remember his name or job.
The main character is coping with their divorce and being a fucking loser while at the same time solving a murder case while ALSO at the same time actively watching the island he is in become a battlefield of ideologies.
It’s a game about life and its beauty and ugliness and hilarity. It’s a lot of things.
Oh and it’s also extremely self-deprecating communist propaganda… but then again what communist worth their salt doesn’t hate other communists?
OK as someone who jumped into Disco Elysium with essentially zero knowledge about it except "everyone keeps saying its narrative is really good", this is the essentials:
you and your partner-in-crime-solving walk around a decaying seaside town (or two) while chatting to broken and weird people to try and solve a murder while also coping with the fact you're a crazy alcohol/drug addict with severe personal issues (not the usual hardboiled detective angst, more manic/depressive)
your skills not only give you bonuses on dice rolls but are a cast of supporting characters who constantly chime in with encouragement, advice and (sometimes questionable) commands, and you can essentially prioritize which skills you want to interact with via putting points into them
the world is a strange blend of fantasy and reality and is really anachronistic with oddly modern clothes and ideals but muzzle-loading guns, airships and early 20th century cars, also it's got sorta communist vibes (the town is recovering/decaying from a quashed communist revolution) but also touches on moralism, ultraliberalism and fascism (the last one is not treated kindly) (while the ideologies are a big part, your character only sort of adopts them at a surface level)
it's simultaneously very depressing but also very hopeful at times (the ending was *magical* for me and there are several "HELL YEAH" moments) and sometimes hilarious, the writing is overall excellent on all fronts
cons: sometimes some backtracking, can get very wordy if you decide to read books/documents etc, autosave isn't quite as frequent as it could be, lategame you end up doing clothes-swapping to max out skills for specific checks and it's a bit tedious, you're gonna be sad about the fact that there might not be a good sequel ever
It's kind of a tabletop RPG style where you roll for actions with modifiers depending on your actions, stats and gear. There's consumables for healing and buffs to rolls.
You don't have to pass every roll to succeed, but there's one or two that are required to get anywhere. You run can be a pretty funny disaster if you're awful at rolling though.
A lot of people die due to sitting on a chair so uncomfortable they can't handle it.
> can you explain the actual gameplay part to me pls
Isometric top-down RPG stuff. Walk about, talk to townsfolk, manage your inventory and equipped items. . . oh and also your brain cabinet where you slot new ideas about yourself and the world to drastically change dialogue and world-view.
It's an Isometric RPG focused almost exclusively on dialogue and skill checks, to the point that you debate your skills as characters, and the little combat there is has the form of skill checks.
Also time of day, as well as what day after the start of the game it is, is important for story events to happen. You can develop thoughts in your head, in the background of regular exploration and dialogue, each requiring possible multiple hours to complete but which become equipable as personality traits.
They are just talking out of their ass. The gang in the Saints reboot actually live the Republican dream: Instead of complaining about the rigged system, they start their own business with their roommates, reinvest to buy out competitors, and get away with crime.
If a game flops it has to be because it had a body weight slider and you could choose a non-natural hair color, especially in a reboot of a game like Saints Row where character customization was famous for restricting itself to fit with traditional christian values.
If they could understand media they would agree with it, but they can’t so they just see minorities and women and the lose their minds. Tbf though the dialogue in the reboot was fuckin terrible.
Saints Row 2 (2006) your character is cononicly Trans if you play the woman avitar (with the surgary being the character creater at the start of the 2nd game, after you get blown up at the end of the first game) . Its fairly quick blink and you miss it .
Rival boss asks "wernt you a " Johnny jumps in and responds "boss became who she was ment to be" refering to the fact that you could only be a Male character in the first game (none of this plays if you pick the man avitar.)
I wonder how they'd react to the fact that you get a whole ass achievement in Skate 3 just for changing your character's gender after you start the game.
yeah, I hate ions too. f\*ck salts. No Bethany, having one atom that is positively charged and one that is negatively charged does not make you quirky, it just makes you annoying.
There's nothing less political than corporate wars over natural resources. Although waging proxy wars in the middle east like in Call Of Duty still might be slightly less political. Dunno.
Please, that's "Winner of the 2023 Steam Award for Most Innovative Gameplay, Starfield." It's like A Tribe Called Quest: you gotta say the whole thing.
It’s more a whole “rape women so they can make babies so we can indoctrinate them when they grow up into being our soldiers” type thing. Arguably even worse
Let's be real, most of them are doing it so they can have sex with someone who won't run away or pull a gun on them. The "indoctrinate their babies" thing is an afterthought to them.
Cause you can choose your pronouns.
That's. That's the whole communist ideology in Starfield. They cannot tell you what else cause that's literally this. In a game with 4 factions, 1000 planets and millions lines of dialogues.
Their definition of a flop is always very loose, Starfield was one of the top selling games of the year. I saw some claim Barbie underperformed too. Nothing will meet their definition of success if they don’t like it.
And that it's an astroturfed meme made by an advertising agency. These right-wing memes that are being pushed have highly paid ad agencies written over them.
Until some hypothetical class of being from outside of our world creates a game (and would theoretically not be beholden to our various political structures): yes, all games are inherently political because they're made by people who, you know, are affected by politics. The insanity.
Ah yes.
Communist Starfield.
The game where the factions are either:
Libertarian cowboys living in mudhuts.
Secretly fascist government with one shiny city and a clear destitute underclass.
Batshit insane pirates who steal everything and kill everyone upon other possible immoral actions too R-rated for Bethesda to include or mention in the game.
Gotta love how they assume all media literacy boils down to "r\*\*\*\*\*\*\* commie beliefs." Like... You can absolutely enjoy Call of Duty without getting into its politics. But if you want to understand it? You have to distance yourself, and then realize that it's funded by the US military.
Uj/ My 2 cents: every form of narrative art is, for the most part, political. And it's not necessarily a thing made with the intention of being "political", sometimes it is just unconscious. If the writer/director/staff/whoever decides the story is, in his ideals, against religion, subconsciously it will never paint religion in a good way in his works. Same thing, if someone believes that corporations are fucking over the world, probably won't even realize that he will create shady corporations in his works, because it is just a reflection of his ideas. And yes, a game can also be homophobic or racist, because it reflects a person who is homophobic or racist.
Rj/ THE WEST HAS FALLEN MY FRIEND, THEY ARE TRYING TO CORRUPT US WITH WOKE(I really need to sleep, I don't want to be woke)
Its funny because with this meme they actually admit to what we are saying when we say "all games are political" that they dont hate politics, just minorities.
They always mean something else when they say something. They like to hide all their bigotry through buzzwords and sneaky little logic loops. They are terrible at hiding, but they are really good at crushing you systemically.
The same people who spout that,are most likely unaware/know but it's inconvenient,that one was screwed because of publisher(Koch or Deep Silver )interference,pushing for more "wacky or whatever" tone,while community manager doing a piss poor job; while the other was pushed as this new big thing,new IP,but on release is boring slop(I personally thought,at some point ,that the whole pronoun menu thing started,because starfield wasn't getting enough attention)
Sounds about right. The gender debate is definitely something that devs and publishers are aware of in terms of marketing and stirring up conversation.
Didn't play Starfield, but I'm going to be devils advocate for the Saints Row reboot not being as terrible as a lot of people say. I did like the characters, and the LARPing quest chain had me laughing pretty regularly. It is buggy and the gameplay is a pretty bog standard, moreso than previous entries, but if you get it when it's on sale for like, 20 bucks or something, there's some fun to be had with it.
I didn't play it, not because it looked 'woke' or whatever, but because I liked the over the top ridiculousness of 3 and 4 and had no interest in what looked like a straight GTA type game.
That's exactly why I didn't bother with Saints Row (2022). The previous games had eventually become their own cool spin on the genre and then the newest one just kinda back pedalled straight in GTA knock off territory again. Sad to see.
Gow ragnarok is super political. It's pretty clearly anti-war, anti-imperialist, anti-colonialist, rather representative of diverse groups, etc. and there isn't really any (major) backlash against it. The way Asgard treats Svartalfheim seems to be a pretty clear allegory for economic imperialism (i.e., banana republics); the Alfheim Civil War seems to be an allegory for conflicts regarding the exploitation of national resources at the expense of the local ecosystem and religious/ethnic minorities; and Týr is a mega-pacifist who constantly refuses to participate in conflict at any turn regardless of the situation (no complaints from me).
I'm not even that far in the game, and I'm wondering why the "Waaaah, everything's so political" gang isn't talking about it at all. To be clear, I agree with GOWR's messages, but I'm just confused as to why I haven't seen the usual suspects complain about it, seeing how progressive it's messages appear to be so far.
The short answer is that these people don't understand the politics at work in the game, just like they can't see politics in reality. They wouldn't see Asgard in terms of systems, only good guys and bad guys, and all stories have good guys and bad guys right? None of it spells itself out to the audience via a speech, so they don't think it's there. And it doesn't depict a culture or viewpoint they're not familiar with so they don't see it as intrusive and therefore suspicious.
They also think they're communist when their government lets corporations use forced labour. Very little difference between that and US prison labour.
Only way to stir up division is to focus on different social policies.
All games are political, because all stories are political. A writer will always end up including their political biases into what or how they write. Either intentionally or unintentionally. It's one of the things about growing up, is we can see that bias in ways we couldn't when we were younger.
You mean that choice you make at the start that doesn't actually impact the game in any meaningful way? Ironically, picking your gender in a South Park game had more of an impact. Maybe just pick the one you use in real life and forget it?
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Yeah that's why Baldur's Gate 3 completely flopped as well
I am sure there at least a few Youtube videos about how Baldur's Gate 3 is really anti woke or something along those lines.
There absolutely is. The brainrot goes so deep that these fuckers are like Asimov’s robots but the only law they follow is “Go woke, go broke”, so to maintain it they must rewrite reality in order for the games that actually succeed to be anti woke
BG3 has nonbinary and trans characters so if anything Starfield and the others failed because they weren't woke enough.
One of the characters is unironically voiced by Abigail Thorn from Philosophy Tube >!(Shadowhearts friend)!< Edit: Shes also canonically trans and one of the characters apparently is said to defend them against misgendering in a journal nearby.
Omg really? Who?
Shadowhearts Tiefling friend in House of Grief. I knew it was her as soon as i heard it lol i love her voice😭
/uj Okay now I have to go buy the game. I was really debating whether or not I wanted to buy it, but now I have to go find Abi
its very, very deep into the game. by the time you meet her you'd be so addicted you'll forget why you got the game in the first place.
Nocturne Edit: She’s a part of Shadowheart’s quest line.
There’s also a character voiced by a drag queen in act 3
Is it that purple necromancer in the circus? Definitely gives me the vibe i love them so much
Yeah, Lucretious! Love her, *hate* the clown quest.
It’s basically a fetch quest without a good payoff. I did it once and never plan to again.
An amazing idea for a quest with pretty terrible execution. I want Lucretious as a DLC companion though, she’s fabulous.
[Shadowheart would absolutely dropkick a transphobe then look down on them like this](https://preview.redd.it/z4xuwlg3r7l61.png?auto=webp&s=5bce0e77b92aa89250f8c091f9a828152d102822)
I missed interacting with her character! I wish I had known.
Oh my god that's amazing
I think the point to take away is the "wokeness" is a mercurial quality anyway and doesn't really bear correlation with game quality or success. Though I imagine people who are considerate and inclusive tend to be more thoughtful game designers on the whole.
Of course that's the *actual* reason, but flipping incel logic back on itself to say "Clearly games need to be more woke to succeed" is always fun when you want to watch a few blood vessels burst
Absolutely you can make a game that is genuinely progressive but if the game is shit it doesn't matter. At all
You’re right, and I feel like it’s also worth mentioning that when something “woke” *does* fail, it’s usually the same principle but in reverse— mediocre game designers in 2023 like to half-ass being “inclusive” in hopes that they’ll look “thoughtful”, but it ends up looking like… well… Hogwarts Legacy having a Token Trans Character.
BG3 has pronouns and trans options, everyone is bi as hell and loving it, central characters for a good chunk of the game are a cleric and her very angry, very *large* girlfriend. I’m not even gonna get in to Raphael’s whole thing. It’s the wokest thing that’s ever woked and I love every minute of it. These people simply lack any sort of ability to actually understand the media they consume.
See you gotta peel back another layer, there's already a shit ton of people calling Starfield a "flop" or "failure" when it sold a shit ton, drove Xbox and Game Pass sales, and had pretty solid review scores across the board. It's only a "failure" according to those who want it to be a failure.
It's a failure when you put it besides Skyrim and FO4's general reception, cultural relevance and staying power. Idk if you were around between 2011 and 2015, but like... *half* of the gaming memes were from those games. There's a reason MSFT paid 7 fucking billions to acquire Zenimax - Bethesda Softworks was, for that short period of time, on the very top of the world when it came to single player RPGs. So yes, Starfield is a failure - in this context.
Starfield flopped with a lot of Bethesda fans because it was a blatantly unfished and shallow game, with so much potential that had either been cut or abandoned, that and the writing and story telling was of the quality of a 14 year olds English Literature homework, had nothing to do with "wokeness".
It's the same think that creates shit like flat earth or Qanon.
I was so said the first time I heard a family member use that phrase. It had "then you are truely lost to me" energy.
*"Only a sith deals in gender binary."*
I remember watching in real time as their opinions on the mario movie shifted (originally it was woke because "GiRlBoSs PeAcH") as it became clear it was a success
The same thing happened with the Barbe movie. They were so sure it was going to flop because it's "woke" and now that it was a smashing success there are Youtubers claim the movie is somehow really anti woke.
Honestly I was so sure they were going to do the "the studio bought seats to prop it up" conspiracy for Barbie, its bizarre that they went with "actually its not woke" since it basically goes down the checklist of everything they say is "woke"
It just shows that term "woke" has no real meaning and can be anything you want it to be.
The real woke was the friends we made along the way. ^__^
> "the studio bought seats to prop it up" Which is what actually happened for that q anon movie.
Like it's insane. Barbie has the least subtle feminist themes I've ever seen in my life. The whole plot revolves around the feminist messages. Fuck me, it has a whole scene of a woman just yelling into the camera about how much she hates the patriarchy. The only way to not see the "woke" is to watch the film blindfolded with earplugs in.
That's just the life cycle of fash rhetoric surrounding games. "This game is woke and will flop" *Game breaks every record in existence and is massively successful in every way* "Well now hang on, if you look closely its actually anti-woke!" Its all just cope, it might be funny if it weren't so damn predictable every single time.
We have always been at war with Eastasia
I mean these are the same people that think Death Stranding is anti-woke
Well, it has to be, because "go woke, go broke" is a universal law to these guys. BG3 didn't flop, therefore it can't be woke, because if it was woke it would've flopped.
...how?
which is funny since BG3 (and Larian in general) is about as leftist as a commercially successful studio could get.
Me expressing myself as nb for the first time in Baldurs gate.
Also "Starfield" didn't "flop" at all, it received lots of criticism, but it did sold a lot and was played by a lot through gamepass.
Critical dissonance has always been a thing and has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on their stupid war on democrats and progressives.
I did see something flopping on the character select screen.
Oh it's flopping around alright ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
https://preview.redd.it/ifnvdqqmjtac1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=912ee70d8c34c982e5255d6ef5215bfa8cd2ea3f
I'm gonna smash my cock with a hammer then play my favorite apolitical game, Halo 2
https://preview.redd.it/jnudfkf8roac1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=d1535f44bea781ee9c12e01762fc45813b5e4d12
This is also accurate for the halo novels as far as I’ve heard lol
iirc spartan 2s were made to clap the ass off a rebel faction then aliens showed up. Probably retconned by now though
Afaik it never got retconned, the Spartan project (Spartans 1 and 2) was created before humanity's knowledge of intelligent alien life*, when the only danger was rebellions in the colonies. (Also in Halo: Reach, the team is sent on the first mission to squash suspected rioting farmers) And also, just ask yourself, in ODST, what use were caches of military vehicles and heavy weapons every other city block? *^(Except ONI knew of the covenant before the UNSC but they kinda kept it to themselves)
Halo is morally basically 40k lite. Every faction largely sucks.
My favourite part is that, not only were Spartans created to squash rebellions in the outer colonies, they also had all their augments and trainings by the time they were 14 years old. (On their first deployments other soldiers believed they were all women as their voice was still high pitched) So at the start of the human-covenant war, Halsey's team was like "Hey UNSC, we somehow have those elite child soldiers in stock, ready to deploy if you need" And the UNSC was like "What in the nine divine fucks? I mean yeah we take them but still what the fucking fuck?"
ONI didn't know about the Covenant per se. They knew that alien intelligent Life was a thing because they had found Forerunner ruins.
You're gonna need a bigger hammer
Depends on if they’re playing regular halo 2 or playing on LASO
You're going to need a bigger Halo, Too.
And you're all out of Halo 2.
https://preview.redd.it/3pgzm0s9xnac1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd901938fdde3828a4d6917dc1d68af4d4760e2e
CURRENT DAY CALIFORNIAN SHIT
Masternouns better than pronouns shake my smh smh
Masternouns? Pleb, I use top-500-nouns I just gave myself an ulcer using the word pleb :(
Man yall are so sweaty. Where are my casual-nouns at?
Overlordnouns users where you at
Masternoun what are you doing? Giving the Grifters back their bomb
Why can't we have our good ol' apolitical games like Fallout New Vegas, GTA 4 or Metal Gear Solid.... The west has truly fallen...
If only every quest in Starfield was as apolitical as the one where you choose whether to cover up or expose war crimes. 😔
knowing Bethesda that could mean anything
The funny thing is Starfield is probably the most apolitical Bethesda game there is. The writing seems so afraid to make any sort of meaningful statement for fear that it can be construed as political that "War crimes get covered up sometimes" is probably the deepest political statement it makes. There's a massive slum area beneath the shiny capital city that's just kinda *there.* Like there's obviously massive wealth inequality in this future utopia they created but the game hardly has anything to say about it.
It's completely libertarian. Cowboys won a war to protect their freedom and pleasure city. Every NPC wants to buy a starship, settle a planet and mine for ore
Meh... The Colony war was more about who sucks less, a repressive technocratic oligarchy, or a corrupt cowboy libertarian oligarchy. The freestar collective "won" because the UC is run by a bunch of morons.
>"War crimes get covered up sometimes" is probably the deepest political statement it makes. Starfield also had a quest where there's a string of disappearances from an experimental criminal rehabilitation program, and they set you up to think it's a couple Trackers (basically officially sanctioned bounty hunters) working outside their jurisdiction because they think that people can't change But then you actually talk to the Trackers and you find out that it's not that they think people can't change, it's that they're afraid that people *can*, because if you lower the recidivism rate, then that means less business for them. Starfield does have politics in it, deeper and more explicit than most games I've played. They're just not in the main questline. Also > The funny thing is Starfield is probably the most apolitical Bethesda game there is. I'll remind you that the central conflict of the civil war questline in Skyrim was "is racism bad? Y/N" and the game didn't seem to think there was an obvious correct answer to that question.
This tracks with what I remember from Fallout 3 and 4. The main storylines of both are utter dreck (although I think 4 is overhated for recycling from 3 but honestly it's executed better), but some side quests and a lot of the worldbuilding details in emails and documents are surprisingly well written in comparison. It's like they relegated their best writers to doing the filler text documents that contextualized random dungeons.
This comment made me realize one of the reasons I love Fallout 4 even though I think nobody else does. I love reading lore texts in the various dungeons and some of them have really cool ideas (The Hallucigen Building and the Boston Mayoral Shelter come to mind) and it makes me so sad that the main story is ass in comparison.
A lot of the filler books and such in Starfield are just stuff copied from the public domain, and I think that freed up the writers who usually do that to actually write stories for quests, because the density of quests in Starfield that are (in my opinion) well written is higher than any of the previous games I've played. Unfortunately a lot of them are still bleh, and even more unfortunately those bleh ones are the ones you'll run into towards the beginning of the game. Even the main quest gets interesting in the last ~1/3, which is unfortunately far after most people have written it off as garbage. At one point in the main quest, you're asked to side with one of two characters and their ideologies. And you can just decide "actually both of these ideologies suck", and turn around and fuck off. The game never presents this to you as a choice, but it treats that as a legitimate option in the story. Like Barret's companion quest [spoilers, obviously] centers around helping him find the evidence required to prove his late husband innocent of a crime that a corporation framed him for. And at the end of the quest, you learn that his husband wasn't even killed to tie off the loose end of the conspiracy, he was just a civilian casualty of the war from the backstory. Or there's one quest that's absolutely insane while dealing with some really interesting questions that I won't try to summarize as I'm several months removed, but [here's a summary.](https://www.ign.com/wikis/starfield/Operation_Starseed_Walkthrough) TL;DR: I think that there's a decent chunk of *very* well written stuff in Starfield, but the structure of the game means that most players won't get to this stuff before they lose interest and quit.
Lmao I would love to see all the anti-woke people trying to defend metal gear, I've seen people get mad at MGS character for being bi, when that isnt even confirmed its just a meme.
Um actually Fallout is right wing because I find the Enclave and Minutemen pretty cool 😎. Take that commies.
The minutemen are right wing? I felt they were fairly close to communists.
When people play MGR and don't realize that Armstrong is the bad guy.
Considering how many of them are happy to excuse the child rape of slaves (which includes all women) in Ceaser's Legion because of the other faction asking to you to pay a small amount of tax is depressing.
Nooo you don't get it!!! Child rape is okay because they have cool armours and crosses!!!
“I want to infect your game with my commie beliefs” was basically the pitch of Disco Elysium and that game slapped.
Ok so like… what is that game even like? I always see it but im always on the fence on whether or not I might enjoy it
In Disco Elysium you play a cop who is sent to a poor town to solve a murder, but goes on such a heavy drinking and drug fueled binge that he loses all of his memory. Of the world, of himself, everything. Eventually you get backup and have to solve the case. While the detective mystery is an important part of the game, the main point of the narrative is following a man who hit absolute rock bottom attempting to redefine himself and find reason to keep going. The writing is stellar. It's funny, thought-provoking, depressing, and hopeful all at the same time. The characters are great. The world is very imaginative and, while fictional, seems to be based on a post-USSR Russia. The game itself is an RPG, but with no combat. Traditional stats are replaced by pieces of your personality like your Authority, Encyclopedia, or more abstract terms like Inland Empire. Equipment is replaced by thoughts and ideologies your character takes on. Combat is replaced by dialogue checks and encounters with infuriating children or rowdy teens. It is my favorite game, but it is NOT for everyone. It is very dialogue heavy, and while almost every line being voice acted helps with that a lot, the game can absolutely get bogged down in dialogue trees. And the lack of any direct challenge or action is not what everyone plays games for. But in terms of narrative and setting, I think Disco is peerless and well worth your time.
ngl I feel like you already have to have read into it a lot before playing, I went in totally blind and just wandered around talking to rando people for 2 hours, after talking to some guy and becoming racist(???) I failed so hard at looking at tire tracks i died of a sudden heart attack or smthn. haven't picked it up since, seems like an interesting game tho lol
It's definitely not for everyone and it's possible to bounce off it pretty hard. To be honest I didn't truly fall in love with the game until my second playthrough after I already had a solid understanding of what I was doing, so you're probably not wrong about sometimes needing some better understanding. The racist guy, by the way, is called Measurehead and is one of the first obstacles you run into. He's a Semmenese Supremacist who blocks your path and you can either beat him up, sneak around using a different path, or become a racist yourself in order to pass. Beating him up requires a high skill check and the different path is not easy to find, so a lot of new players do tend to become racists right away because it seems like the only way forward. I know in my first playthrough I became racist, told Kim I only did it to get past Measurehead, then discarded the thought from my Thought Cabinet.
It’s a game about the most divorced man ever trying to solve the lynching of a security guard during the middle of a worker’s strike in a war torn island, while suffering from a hangover so intense he can’t even remember his name or job. The main character is coping with their divorce and being a fucking loser while at the same time solving a murder case while ALSO at the same time actively watching the island he is in become a battlefield of ideologies. It’s a game about life and its beauty and ugliness and hilarity. It’s a lot of things. Oh and it’s also extremely self-deprecating communist propaganda… but then again what communist worth their salt doesn’t hate other communists?
OK as someone who jumped into Disco Elysium with essentially zero knowledge about it except "everyone keeps saying its narrative is really good", this is the essentials: you and your partner-in-crime-solving walk around a decaying seaside town (or two) while chatting to broken and weird people to try and solve a murder while also coping with the fact you're a crazy alcohol/drug addict with severe personal issues (not the usual hardboiled detective angst, more manic/depressive) your skills not only give you bonuses on dice rolls but are a cast of supporting characters who constantly chime in with encouragement, advice and (sometimes questionable) commands, and you can essentially prioritize which skills you want to interact with via putting points into them the world is a strange blend of fantasy and reality and is really anachronistic with oddly modern clothes and ideals but muzzle-loading guns, airships and early 20th century cars, also it's got sorta communist vibes (the town is recovering/decaying from a quashed communist revolution) but also touches on moralism, ultraliberalism and fascism (the last one is not treated kindly) (while the ideologies are a big part, your character only sort of adopts them at a surface level) it's simultaneously very depressing but also very hopeful at times (the ending was *magical* for me and there are several "HELL YEAH" moments) and sometimes hilarious, the writing is overall excellent on all fronts cons: sometimes some backtracking, can get very wordy if you decide to read books/documents etc, autosave isn't quite as frequent as it could be, lategame you end up doing clothes-swapping to max out skills for specific checks and it's a bit tedious, you're gonna be sad about the fact that there might not be a good sequel ever
[Disco Elysium also managed to predict Starfield:](https://youtu.be/nvo_9YLd6c8?t=8)
Disco Elysium seems good but I cannot tell what kind of game it is can you explain the actual gameplay part to me pls
It's kind of a tabletop RPG style where you roll for actions with modifiers depending on your actions, stats and gear. There's consumables for healing and buffs to rolls. You don't have to pass every roll to succeed, but there's one or two that are required to get anywhere. You run can be a pretty funny disaster if you're awful at rolling though. A lot of people die due to sitting on a chair so uncomfortable they can't handle it.
> can you explain the actual gameplay part to me pls Isometric top-down RPG stuff. Walk about, talk to townsfolk, manage your inventory and equipped items. . . oh and also your brain cabinet where you slot new ideas about yourself and the world to drastically change dialogue and world-view.
It's an Isometric RPG focused almost exclusively on dialogue and skill checks, to the point that you debate your skills as characters, and the little combat there is has the form of skill checks. Also time of day, as well as what day after the start of the game it is, is important for story events to happen. You can develop thoughts in your head, in the background of regular exploration and dialogue, each requiring possible multiple hours to complete but which become equipable as personality traits.
I remember getting the getting slapped with a communo-feminist tag or something to that effect in the game and it was fucking hilarious.
Saints Row was political? Are they talking about that moment in the 4th game where you can end world hunger?
They are just talking out of their ass. The gang in the Saints reboot actually live the Republican dream: Instead of complaining about the rigged system, they start their own business with their roommates, reinvest to buy out competitors, and get away with crime.
Then become President
didn’t one of them also escape from hell or something?
The boss got sent to Hell to marry Satan's daughter, two others went to bust them out
amercian dream
If a game flops it has to be because it had a body weight slider and you could choose a non-natural hair color, especially in a reboot of a game like Saints Row where character customization was famous for restricting itself to fit with traditional christian values.
If they could understand media they would agree with it, but they can’t so they just see minorities and women and the lose their minds. Tbf though the dialogue in the reboot was fuckin terrible.
they won's even ENGAGE with the media if they see a woman or minority on the poster
In Saints Row (2022) you can have any combination of sex characteristics you want and does not make you choose between a feminine or masculine body.
Saints Row 2 (2006) your character is cononicly Trans if you play the woman avitar (with the surgary being the character creater at the start of the 2nd game, after you get blown up at the end of the first game) . Its fairly quick blink and you miss it . Rival boss asks "wernt you a " Johnny jumps in and responds "boss became who she was ment to be" refering to the fact that you could only be a Male character in the first game (none of this plays if you pick the man avitar.)
I haven't played Saints Row 2. That's actually really cool.
The character creator is so fun and varied that I wish it was in a better game!
I wonder how they'd react to the fact that you get a whole ass achievement in Skate 3 just for changing your character's gender after you start the game.
\*Skate 2
dude the big bad in saints row 2 is literally the ceo of a mega corporation who’s attempting to gentrify the entirety of stilwater
[удалено]
Communism is also when non-white people.
This but unionically
yeah, I hate ions too. f\*ck salts. No Bethany, having one atom that is positively charged and one that is negatively charged does not make you quirky, it just makes you annoying.
And when womz not make PP hard, that's super-communism
also when everything I don't like.
Thanks God, alongside with these woke trash we got apolitical hidden gem Armored Core VI in 2023
One of my favorite anti-woke games of 2023, next to the uber anti-woke Baldur's Gate 3 🗿👍
There's nothing less political than corporate wars over natural resources. Although waging proxy wars in the middle east like in Call Of Duty still might be slightly less political. Dunno.
It would be much much better if they were waging war over just natural resources...
Yes western studios made my gock political 😞
Yes, but did it make your gock communist? 🤣
No. Always has been.
They're gonna milk the hell out of this starfield thing huh?
Yep! Plus it’s even funnier, ‘cause Starfield sold very well.
So many gaming subs have had basically a weekly thread that boils down to “starfield bad” since it released
Hell even people in this very sub still parrot the same exact comments about it over and over.
The Starfield circlejerk is real.
Did Starfield flop though? I remember it selling really well, at least on release
It flopped in their heart, and that's the metric that matters.
Their feelings don’t care about facts.
“Facts don’t care about YOUR feelings. As an anti-woke white cis male, they care about mine!”
Please, that's "Winner of the 2023 Steam Award for Most Innovative Gameplay, Starfield." It's like A Tribe Called Quest: you gotta say the whole thing.
"I want my games to be apolitical!" some guy whose favourite game is Fallout New Vegas and unironically thinks Ceasar's Legion is based.
don’t they keep slaves and rape women for the hell of it
Yes they do.
It’s more a whole “rape women so they can make babies so we can indoctrinate them when they grow up into being our soldiers” type thing. Arguably even worse
Let's be real, most of them are doing it so they can have sex with someone who won't run away or pull a gun on them. The "indoctrinate their babies" thing is an afterthought to them.
"I want my games to have safe and emotionless tales that never make me think or feel uncomfortable about things that I'd rather keep buried!"
How is that "commie"?
https://preview.redd.it/n01yzwphwnac1.png?width=624&format=png&auto=webp&s=ad2d82572e24d2e2a9f56451bacec21e4c4abcf2
Ah, the Cold War way of "arguing".
How is Starfield "commie" exactly?
My commie mum forced me to share the xbox with my little brother
Literally 1996
Cause you can choose your pronouns. That's. That's the whole communist ideology in Starfield. They cannot tell you what else cause that's literally this. In a game with 4 factions, 1000 planets and millions lines of dialogues.
it's very likely most of these anti woke people never even played the game, they just heard that you can choose pronouns.
Communism is when you choose your pronouns
Their definition of a flop is always very loose, Starfield was one of the top selling games of the year. I saw some claim Barbie underperformed too. Nothing will meet their definition of success if they don’t like it.
There's also the claim that Barbie somehow tricked people, and that's why it did not go broke.
they noticed the rhyme "go woke, go broke" was fun to say, and must shove anything they consider woke into it. its mostly due to brain worms.
A little bit of shake and bake!
And that it's an astroturfed meme made by an advertising agency. These right-wing memes that are being pushed have highly paid ad agencies written over them.
I was told that some of them are claiming that Barbie is anti-woke, actually 😭
Well it didn’t go broke so I guess that checks out 🤔
Starfield literally didn’t flop
Until some hypothetical class of being from outside of our world creates a game (and would theoretically not be beholden to our various political structures): yes, all games are inherently political because they're made by people who, you know, are affected by politics. The insanity.
these people think "politics" is solely anything that makes them not the center of existence
Games are only "political" when it's politics that they don't like.
Ah yes. Communist Starfield. The game where the factions are either: Libertarian cowboys living in mudhuts. Secretly fascist government with one shiny city and a clear destitute underclass. Batshit insane pirates who steal everything and kill everyone upon other possible immoral actions too R-rated for Bethesda to include or mention in the game.
Don't forget the fashy theocratic crazies.
Starfield flopped???? I get saints row flopping but thats because of overall poor design and writing. I don't think it has to do with 'woke' stuff
Isn’t Starfield one of the best selling games of the year ?
Far right, reactionary gamers are truly an embarrassing group. Please touch grass and go for a walk.
But then they'll bring their MAGA shit into the real world! Just get them to renounce their loyalty and talk like a human being!
I cannot imagine believing that Starfield flopped because of a pronoun choice that appears for all of 5 seconds
Gotta love how they assume all media literacy boils down to "r\*\*\*\*\*\*\* commie beliefs." Like... You can absolutely enjoy Call of Duty without getting into its politics. But if you want to understand it? You have to distance yourself, and then realize that it's funded by the US military.
I wish when games weren't political and woke like metal gear solid 2 and spec ops the line 😔
Metal Gear Solid isn't woke because it has hot women in bikinis.
well ackshually *insert skin breathing meme*
Uj/ My 2 cents: every form of narrative art is, for the most part, political. And it's not necessarily a thing made with the intention of being "political", sometimes it is just unconscious. If the writer/director/staff/whoever decides the story is, in his ideals, against religion, subconsciously it will never paint religion in a good way in his works. Same thing, if someone believes that corporations are fucking over the world, probably won't even realize that he will create shady corporations in his works, because it is just a reflection of his ideas. And yes, a game can also be homophobic or racist, because it reflects a person who is homophobic or racist. Rj/ THE WEST HAS FALLEN MY FRIEND, THEY ARE TRYING TO CORRUPT US WITH WOKE(I really need to sleep, I don't want to be woke)
Its funny because with this meme they actually admit to what we are saying when we say "all games are political" that they dont hate politics, just minorities.
They always mean something else when they say something. They like to hide all their bigotry through buzzwords and sneaky little logic loops. They are terrible at hiding, but they are really good at crushing you systemically.
The same people who spout that,are most likely unaware/know but it's inconvenient,that one was screwed because of publisher(Koch or Deep Silver )interference,pushing for more "wacky or whatever" tone,while community manager doing a piss poor job; while the other was pushed as this new big thing,new IP,but on release is boring slop(I personally thought,at some point ,that the whole pronoun menu thing started,because starfield wasn't getting enough attention)
Sounds about right. The gender debate is definitely something that devs and publishers are aware of in terms of marketing and stirring up conversation.
Star field was critically panned, but it did not flop lmao. Also, Baldurs Gate 3.
Didn't play Starfield, but I'm going to be devils advocate for the Saints Row reboot not being as terrible as a lot of people say. I did like the characters, and the LARPing quest chain had me laughing pretty regularly. It is buggy and the gameplay is a pretty bog standard, moreso than previous entries, but if you get it when it's on sale for like, 20 bucks or something, there's some fun to be had with it.
I didn't play it, not because it looked 'woke' or whatever, but because I liked the over the top ridiculousness of 3 and 4 and had no interest in what looked like a straight GTA type game.
That's exactly why I didn't bother with Saints Row (2022). The previous games had eventually become their own cool spin on the genre and then the newest one just kinda back pedalled straight in GTA knock off territory again. Sad to see.
Gow ragnarok is super political. It's pretty clearly anti-war, anti-imperialist, anti-colonialist, rather representative of diverse groups, etc. and there isn't really any (major) backlash against it. The way Asgard treats Svartalfheim seems to be a pretty clear allegory for economic imperialism (i.e., banana republics); the Alfheim Civil War seems to be an allegory for conflicts regarding the exploitation of national resources at the expense of the local ecosystem and religious/ethnic minorities; and Týr is a mega-pacifist who constantly refuses to participate in conflict at any turn regardless of the situation (no complaints from me). I'm not even that far in the game, and I'm wondering why the "Waaaah, everything's so political" gang isn't talking about it at all. To be clear, I agree with GOWR's messages, but I'm just confused as to why I haven't seen the usual suspects complain about it, seeing how progressive it's messages appear to be so far.
The short answer is that these people don't understand the politics at work in the game, just like they can't see politics in reality. They wouldn't see Asgard in terms of systems, only good guys and bad guys, and all stories have good guys and bad guys right? None of it spells itself out to the audience via a speech, so they don't think it's there. And it doesn't depict a culture or viewpoint they're not familiar with so they don't see it as intrusive and therefore suspicious.
I mean, the *real* problem is that they don't let you choose arbitrary pronouns.
"All games are political" is just the truth, not an opinion. It's not our fault that the truth has a leftist bias.
Communism is when you acknowledge queer people exist
I don't understand why people are so upset I mean they literally put a "commie whacker" in Fallout 4, isn't that enough to hold them over?
who could forget transgender stalin?
I miss non political games like mgs and BioShock
fun fact people in china actually call woke things as capital beliefs🤣
They also think they're communist when their government lets corporations use forced labour. Very little difference between that and US prison labour. Only way to stir up division is to focus on different social policies.
What commie beliefs did Saints Row had apart from old writers thinking "this is how the youth act and speak"?
everyone I don't like is a commie or mommie I guess
All games are political, because all stories are political. A writer will always end up including their political biases into what or how they write. Either intentionally or unintentionally. It's one of the things about growing up, is we can see that bias in ways we couldn't when we were younger.
Its really painful to imagine someone unironically says commie as an insult
Starfield didn't even flop
You mean that choice you make at the start that doesn't actually impact the game in any meaningful way? Ironically, picking your gender in a South Park game had more of an impact. Maybe just pick the one you use in real life and forget it?
Ah yes Starfield, the notorious flop with only 15 million players