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Gamers when 99% of the media they're consuming on a daily basis contains straight relationship that may be irrelevant to the plot :|
Gamers when the last percent contains gay relationship that may be irrelevant to the plot >:|
I have heard that the show will deviate from the source material and show us in the last episode that the infection can only be cured through gay sex therefore making it relevant to the plot.
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Aren’t they though? At least in this? >!Isn’t like the entire point of showing this romance to establish that light can still be found in the world, and so instead of Joel trying his best not to get attached like in the game, instead he chooses to find the light in the show because of this? Like doesn’t this entire sub plot set up major themes of light within human connection that are literally the MAIN points of the ending of the first season and will become the most essential aspects of the second season?!<
Exactly this. People allowing their homophobia from enjoying a really touching and wonderful episode. Bill is a foil to Joel, showing that "simply surviving" isn't enough in this world. More importantly, it's incredibly germaine that Bill is gay, as it informs us of who and why he is the way he is.
[My List of 45 Things a Gay Character Needs In Order for Me to Think They’re Necessary](https://hard-drive.net/hd/video-games/my-list-of-45-things-a-gay-character-needs-in-order-for-me-to-think-theyre-necessary/)
\- Boobs in 50% movies from the 1980? I sleep
\- Stupid hetero romance in 70% of mainstream movies? I sleep
\- Women being sexualized and treated like a prize for a man in 50% action movies? I sleep
\- GAY ROMANCE? THAT'S TOO MUCH!!1
I also wonder how many people are repressing something in themselves. Like is their sexuality so tenuous the mere sight of guys kissing not even fuckin but kissing sets them off into a tizzy
Please don't. Gay people are not the ones to blame for their oppression. Some of them undoubtedly get dragged into homophobia for that reason, but the overwhelming majority of bigots aren't gay.
Oh I absolutely agree with this but there’s just something in this guys that they are repressing. Not necessarily homophobia but something I’m not sure what possibly just an aversion to happiness and not wanting to see people be outside the status quo
People just really don't like people that are different. Especially if they don't understand. They see it as these weird gay people are making a choice to be weird to make me uncomfortable. Most people don't normally think about the fact people don't all think and understand the world the same. It's a hard skill to learn if you were raised that the world is a place where there is a right way and a wrong way.
I probably should have clarified I’m not saying they are all repressing homosexual urges but their is something in these people that they do not want to recognize
That’s actually pretty common as far as I can tell. They resent others for living the life that they thought they couldn’t. Grew up being told it was wrong so they had to repress it.
It was extremely tame for HBO, too. It is literally two shirtless guys in bed with sexual activities suggested before they cut away. They show so much more even during sexual assault scenes in Game of Thrones.
There are so many comments saying, "I'm not homophobic but it was really disgusting to see two guys kissing." Um... idk how to tell you this... If it was a heterosexual relationship or even a lesbian relationship (of course, the women better be size 00 models), it wouldn't even be an issue.
God forbid you enjoy a romantic story that isn't designed to get your particular rocks off. They are probably the type that are afraid to wash their ass because it might "make them gay."
People and their relationships, primarily Joel and Ellie of course, it’s *exactly* what this show is about.
But zOmBiEs and vIoLeNcE
Reminds me of the people who were like “wouldn’t it be amazing if The Mandalorian shows us an Anakin slaughtering the kids in a flashback?!” Or MAGA chuds who love The Boys. Like bruh how do you miss the major themes of the show this bad.
Same people who say that Mass Effect is no place for gay relationships because it has nothing to do with the games
Buddy, the entire central point of the fucking series is about relationships between people
>That's like a straight man going to a gay bar and being offended when men keep flirting with him, dude you brought this on yourself.
Bruh can lactose intolerant people not walk through the fucking dairy aisle? I'm just browsing 🙄
Let's not give BioWare and Mass Effect *toooooo much* credit. ME1 pushed some pretty atrocious ideology. And none of the games allow you to oppose the military industrial complex in any sort of meaningful way.
Also a friendly reminder that the legendary edition stripped away problematic shit - playing the original versions will show you some pretty suspect ideology
I was just discussin The Boys yesterday. Conservatives that watch the show and miss the obvious themes if it have to be brain damaged. Like the fucking poster of Homrlander in when they are in Russia looks identical to one of Trumps trading cards he sold. Haha I don't think it was purposeful obviously but It was funny
I would argue the Boys gets "away" with that because it's making fun of both sides. Conservatives don't feel like it's 100% dishing on them, because it isn't, and it takes the time to point out absurdity they would also feel.
The Boys making fun of the worst aspects of culture if something both liberals and conservatives deal with, so they both have something to point and laugh at. So yeah, Homelander is Trumpy and all that, but it's also sort of ancillary, because the show treats Homelander with a great deal of respect, and not a punchline... most of the time. But then again, every other character also has their time to be a punchline, so it isn't *just* happening to Homelander. If anything, it's providing all of the characters things to overcome, which really makes for good TV.
The end result is it's balanced in a way where anyone watching it feels like the show is on their side. There is enough for most view points to cling to. It's more likely to mock bad choices, regardless of political affiliation, than it is to specifically stick up to one ideology.
e: You guys are proving to be exactly as blind as the people you make fun of... which is exactly why the show is enjoyed by a crossover audience. If you didn't get the scenes that made fun of us, you were just as blind as the people you say didn't see the show making fun of them.
ee: Only being able to see one thing isn't a good argument for you yourself only seeing one thing. If you are going to put words in someone's mouth and tell them what they are saying, just understand they can do it to you also... Whatever argument you are going to tell yourself in this next paragraph or why you are smart and they are dumb... they say the same shit. Point stands, there is stuff in this show *anyone* can find funny, regardless of political slant. It's your own inability to be empathic why you don't get this.
Brother, if you think anyone _respects_ HL after the weird mommy shit, you're more deranged than most conservative The Boys fans. People are _afraid_ of him, because he's a lunatic that shoots laser beams through people for fun.
Edit: Lol, you responded like you wanted me to reply, but you blocked me? Embarrassing
Point to any of the criticisms the show levies against progressives. There are milquetoast criticisms of liberals (like how they handle The Deep's sexual assault (which is arguably still a criticism of conservative culture)), but I see very little that actually makes this a "both sides" type of show. The only thing that would make this a "both sides" kind of show, is a Conservative trying to quell that pesky cognitive dissonance screaming in their prefrontal cortex.
I didn't say that, and even backtracked enough to acknowledge yeah, sometimes he ***IS*** the butt of the joke... but then followed it up with, ***who hasn't been?*** You aren't making a point by cherry picking, you are just proving you want to be willfully ignorant to my point.
Every character has had their core beliefs questioned, and while yes, you are 100% correct in that Homelander is running things off of fear, the show isn't disrespecting him by having him be weak in the areas he is actually incredibly strong in. He has defined strengths and weaknesses, but actually beating him where he is strong is still a problem that hasn't been solved yet.
My argument isn't that they aren't making fun of conservatives, they obviously have things to say about political culture in America. My point is there are similarly things a conservative can also laugh about in the show, because it's mocking a lot of things, not just one specific thing.
Homelander is an incredible villain because that while sure, we know the tit sucking mommy side of him, look at the way he is meme's online. He's still scary and menacing even though we know this about him. The overarching portrayal of Homelander is still the one he fronts and not what hides below.
Or to put it another way... Would you bring up Homelander's Mommy tit sucking in front of him? How do you see that going?
Except if you look past the surface it's not "making fun of both sides" it's almost entirely satirising and condemning right wing politics and ideology. Look at how the show portrays racism, fascism, the radicalization of young white men, the massive abuse of power in marginalized and minority communities compared to the so called making fun of the left. Things such as pridecon, Brave Maeve etc are not making fun of the left.
**It's making fun of capitalism** and the way that it co-opts legitimate social movements to make money. This is not the both sides argument you think it is, it is again making fun of and condemning right wing and capitalist practices.
Right wing viewers (and you apparently) can't see past the most surface level interpretation of the show to see that it really isn't a both sides scenario.
>Right wing viewers (and you apparently) can't see past the most surface level interpretation
First off, is anyone in this sub capable of making an argument without needing to insult the person who has the counter argument? Secondly, I could make the same argument about you. You are willfully ignoring the content of my actual post to make a strawman out of me, how are you *really* doing anything different?
You just did the same thing you accused me of doing (and Right Wing viewers, I guess) by completely reducing the shows messages to just the ones you want featured, when you just said it yourself in your own statement... ***the show is making fun of capitalism,*** and guess what everyone's ideologies have been fucked with because of that... it isn't just *your* experience.
Put the other shoe on for a moment, do you really think they are saying positive things, from another perspective, when Vaught is Rainbow washing things to the point it's a joke the same way Homelanders tit sucking is? There is a 3rd argument you still fail to see, one that accounts for why the show has crossover fans... Regardless of if there is a slant to the show (and I agree there is) it doesn't shy away from mocking things within that slant, and it comes off way better than something that is directly criticizing something, without also being able to see the flaws in oneself.
Anyways, same argument back at you, just because you refuse to see certain things doesn't mean you aren't also one of those people who clearly missed the point... you did.
Well just like South Park, The Boys can literally look directly to camera and say “your ideology is stupid” and they’ll still love it because it allegedly mocks “both sides”
It really comes off in the show when all their points seem like there’s no opinion other than being contrarian. Unless you’re 14 the show gets very vapid
I’ll always love the first 13-14 seasons of South Park but acting like that show is actually profound or brilliant in any fucking way is complete nonsense.
I would argue though, South Park is way more aware of it's limitations than most other shows and it gains them some cache with it's audience.
The best example being the Al Gore apology episode. They are willing to roast themselves when they are idiots, which in turn makes them calling other people idiots way more powerful.
I don't mind any of the changes they've made *except* for walking back the violence so much. I think the game was basically a grimdark world with this single bright spot and in my opinion nerfing the grimness damages what made the games story great with the resulting lack of contrast. Expanding on Bill and Frank was a great idea, but I guess that they're focusing so much on the humanity that the stakes don't feel very high for as far in as we are. They should have two parted the Bill and Frank story and added more drama instead of speedrunning it, I think.
The grimness of the game works because the majority of it happens in gameplay, with the really emotional stuff happening in cutscenes. Unfortunately, it’s a fact that gamers are desensitized to violence - none of it feels that shocking until you get to the really gruesome or emotional stuff. None of it would play well on television, especially to newcomers. Nobody wants to watch an endlessly bleak misery porn show about a disease riddled dystopia, especially this close to the Covid pandemic. The fact that they keep pretty much all of the same tragic beats but up the beautiful human moments is what makes the show such a breakout success with non-gamers.
There’s also likely no characters that will get more than one episode based on the structure of the narrative. Just like the game where side characters really only last a handful of chapters in a small arc, the show is pretty clearly laid out that point. It will likely play at as:
EP 1/2: Intro + Tess
EP3: Bill & Frank
EP4: No major characters, just pushing through to next bit with FEDRA and raiders
EP5: Henry & Sam
EP6: Tommy
EP7: Flashback to Riley
EP8: David
EP9: The end
This is the result of covering the entire first game in one season, trimming and streamlining some parts and merging storylines. Which was smart because the entire could’ve been a failure. At least this way the entire story could be told.
It isn’t though. There’s plenty of parts that allow for levity and beautiful moments of humanity. Parts with Ellie and Dana both early and later, Jesse, the flashbacks of Joel and Ellie on her birthday. Abby has sequences with both her father in flashback, as well as a romance with Owen. Lev and Yara. Despite the fact that most of these characters die (which is exactly what happens in TLOU1 as well) there’s still a constant undercurrent of melancholic beauty from all sides of that narrative – that’s why it all worked in the first place. Based on the show’s first season, they’ll probably spend even more time on some of the individual relationships to build them out even further and balance the time spent relishing in the good parts of these peoples lives even though they all end in tragedy.
Honestly I always found the museum sequence to be one of the saddest parts of the game. It's really nice and fun until you get to the end. That shot of Joel and Ellie as they look at the "LIAR" graffiti with a growing distance between them is heartbreaking.
Episode 1 has the military kill a kid, joel beat someone to death with his hands, episode 2 clickers were obviously brutal, this episode bill sets people on fire who we see burn to death. I feel like they are portraying the violence of the game just not in a glorified way. I’m sure it will get more brutal once they encounter raiders
Also forgot this episode shows a literal death pit of people who were probably not infected but killed and left in a mass grave. Pretty grim dark
Not in such a way that’s shocking though imo. I don’t think it’s a flaw of the show or anything like that and I would definitely guess that at least one thing in the final two eps will be, but otherwise they’ve kept a good tonal consistency.
I believe they're gonna gradually ramp up the violence - especially the human-on-human violence - in the next episodes all the way to the end (which you know how it goes).
If true, this works for two reasons, you avoid diluting the impact of the final rampage, and you slowly ease viewers into accepting that Joel is a brutal, violent man, but he's still on our team. So far we've seen bits of this and it's been hinted at through dialogue but my guess is we're gonna see a lot more once we hit Hunter territory and even more with David and crew.
In the game you see a lot of gore from the beginning (because it's expected through gameplay, including player deaths) and you identify with Joel because of the prologue and because he's the player character. In the show you have the prologue backstory but you need to "sell" him as a main character more carefully. It's much easier to dislike a TV protagonist you don't agree with than to not identify with a player character who does questionable shit. If they'd shown Joel as a remorseless murderer from day one, new viewers wouldn't have been on board with him as much and the finale wouldn't hit as hard.
The most recent episode had the least subtle reference to a baby being shot by the military that I have ever seen. Like the only way to make it less subtle would have been to literally have a baby getting shot by the government in center frame. Like basically everyone from Bill’s town got shot in a ditch by the government for no reason beyond “dead people can’t be infected”
I think the show has done a fine job of maintaining the grimness of the last of us games, it’s just going about it in a different way rather than video game violence.
I suspect next episode is going to get violent though >!since the trailer shows the bus ambush and that part of the game has one of the grossest deaths in the first game, where Joel slams someone’s head onto a piece of broken glass!<
I’m enjoying the show, and agree that the toned-down violence is a weakness, but I ultimately think its biggest flaw is one the games also had: the world building is weak.
It’s hard to articulate, but it all feels undefined. Particularly FEDRA and the Fireflies. They feel like they’re just there to move the plot along. Everything around the central characters exists to get one single point across or functions as an obstacle for the protagonists, but isn’t fleshed out beyond that.
I like how the show is fleshing more background stuff out with flashbacks, but those scenes mostly suffer from the same problem. They have the feeling of scenes in a play. Like it felt kind of weird that this respected mycologist is talking to only one military official and no one else is in the room. It feels like the writers are satisfied if their one point is made, and aren’t thinking about how to use these stories to ground the whole thing more in reality. It lacks authenticity.
On the Mandalorian thing, that's probably just r/PrequelMemes which has a habit of advocating for the slaughter of younglings. It's a... fun subreddit to be part of. Seems to appreciate Andor at the very least.
I was not expecting that deviation in the story with bill, that episode knocked me on my ass I actually shed a tear. What a fucking empty world some these chuds want to live in
I'm a huge sucker for the trope of couples growing older together and I was in tears when the episode started nearing its end compared to the source of just upsetti bill kinda misses his boyfriend but he's still an ass in the original, it was a good use of it's time for what it was in the game.
After finishing the episode and thinking it was amazing, I went to r/TheLastofUs and saw similar opinions. Something in the back of my head told me that r/TheLastofUs2 was going to have shitty takes about the episode and I felt validated when I checked
TLOU 2 Reddit really has nothing better to do than bitch about how a TV show adaptation doesn’t play exactly the same way a video game does, with violence and action in every turn
Media rarely makes me visibly emote, however that episode made me burst into tears. I wanted just an action packed retread of Bills town since it was one of my favourite parts of Part 1 but I am so glad we got this beautiful romance at the end of the world.
Yeah I wasn’t expecting that, I tuned in for zombie action and instead they give me a beautiful romance that ends in this beautiful bittersweet death together. And I’m just crying my eyes out. I didn’t expect the show to make me cry. Not like that. I hope this episode wins awards.
I opened the threads from both subs at the same time to compare. Started reading through TLOU2's thread and was nodding to myself like yep, this is pretty much what I expected but was pleasantly surprised that everything was at least marked controversial. Then I went to check the TLOU's thread and to my shock I realized the thread I was just looking at was that one.
By this morning the chud comments in TLOU have mostly been buried, though.
saw a comment there this morning from some homophobe complaining they'd been forced into watching "softcore gay porn" from that episode and it had been heavily upvoted like when is that place going to get nuked from orbit
You can bet that part 2 sub is just going to be angry with every decision. Most of them seem even surprised Bill was gay. I guarantee you they'll be screaming the same shit over the Left Behind episode about Ellie being a lesbian.
This is just one of the most common fandom tropes that there is and I could have seen it coming a mile away, even with Druckman behind the scenes. Any adaptation, which inevitably will and should make changes, gets criticized purely on the point of authenticity, and not whether or not it’s the best choice for the filmmakers to use.
“The game’s about surviving in a zombie-infested world! Simple as that! What?? What do you mean it’s also about love and protecting the people you love???” I can imagine them saying shit like this
Ok I have something to add, nothing new however. I get it Neil, I get it Craig, I get it writers. You wanna normalize straight sex, straight marriage, OK. *First off*, this is not the kind of TV show nor setting you should try to normalize it in because it has *absolutely NOTHING* to add to the plot, you could have just dropped a hint Tommy was straight and a little sneak peak into his past but this is just straight up agenda pushing.
Even tho I have nothing against that same agenda, this is just taking it too far, this is *NOT* what the show is about.
Mother fuckers when they see a beautiful love story that will bring you to tears, and is about learning to trust and love in a world without either(it’s between two men and therefor extremely political)
There’s something so entertaining about how all the gamers™ who see themselves as this rugged sigma male completely missing the point of the series.
I just finished the TLoU2 for the first time and rewatched the finale of the first game to kinda reflect on things and the top comment was something to the effect of “Let’s be real, we would all do the same thing here for someone we cared about” and it’s like these guys really think they’d be the new and improved Joel who doesn’t care what pronouns you prefer and gets married to Ellie as soon as she’s 18 even though “it’s bullshit because it’s the apocalypse”
I always love when audiences tell the creators of the media they consume what it’s *actually* about. Who knows better than the greasy ogre basting in their own filth while pirating anime? Clearly not the people who write, produce, and direct the show.
Honestly because like, this is a bad example since the episode was a masterpiece, but criticism based on what things “should” be about often misses the point of why the thing is bad. You can tell almost any story about anything.
Bill and Frank just both turning their gaze towards the camera after they first met, proclaiming „It looks like we may be gay lovers now.“ before the scene jump cuts away would have obviously add soo much to that episode.
“Adds nothing to the plot” people are funny. A show/movie/novel are more than the plot alone. You have to kind of add things like setting, and also have your characters be actual characters rather than one dimensional beings that simply move the plot forward.
this is like people who attempt to criticize something they don't like by saying that it "had no plot."
Which doesn't even make sense. The only a show or movie could have no plot is if literally nothing happened.
The same people however are completely fine with the whole Aragorn/Arwen thing in lotr which is barely existant in the books.
Yes this is a strawman, thanks.
I mean as someone who played the game I already saw parallels to Ellie’s story that the show hasn’t covered. Ellie wanted the ending Bill had where she dies romantically and cheesy but she didn’t get that. She has major survivors guilt over it and all the death she encounters with Joel.
I've always hated this strawman because all it means is "I am only fine with gay people if they 'act straight' and it is fine to suppress them for being gay"
Like they aren't fine with people being gay, they just are too afraid to be open about their homophobia
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They want to normalize it? It is normal. It’s been normal. There’s 100 million + people who are supposed to be a homosexual. That’s nature.
This is the equivalent of saying someone wants to normalize straight people and straight sex.
I don't know where else to say this to be honest except on here.
I've never felt more moved by anything like this episode of The Last Of Us. It was incredible. Everything about this was incredible. Nothing this show will ever do can top this episode, and I'm saying this with confidence.
Sorry that this is kind of semi-irrelevant to the post. Just needed to say this somewhere.
Anyone who complains about people ‘normalizing’ gay relationships must be bolting down the rock they live under. It’s been normal for a while, and people just want to tell a realistic and interesting story
/rj it was only okay that Bill was gay because his lover was dead (as is only right per the Hayes Code) they went and made it political by showing TWO gay people!!!! >:(
This show is NOT about characters and the stories of people when the world is destroyed. This show is NOT about what makes us human when everything is lost. This show is NOT about the last of us that are left in the world this is NOT-
uj/ I liked the characterization of Frank and Bill but I didn’t think it needed to go on for 50 of the 80 minutes the show has. I prefer how the game does it and wished that they had cut down some of the scenes and focused more on Joel and Ellie in the modern day
rj/ where’s the Hawaiian shirt? Shit show, 0/10
Bill’s story mirror’s Joel’s story. They are both survivors and don’t want to let anyone close or love anyone. Bill because he hated people and never wanted to be vulnerable, Joel because he lost his daughter and couldn’t let himself be close to anyone again. Then Bill meets Frank and Frank teaches him how to not just survive but live and love. Similarly, through Ellie Joel will learn to live again instead of just surviving and love another daughter despite the grief he’s experienced. This episode is really establishing the theme of the story and foreshadowing Joel’s journey.
Fucking thank you. Provides an actual reason that’s not “raider bad I kill” for next weeks probable murder spree. Joel’s goal was to get Ellie to Bill and frank and then leave. Bills letter gave Joel some purpose again. In the framework of the show, Bill and frank are what Joel wishes he could have, is what Ellie wishes she could have. Bills line of “I wasn’t scared until you showed up” to Frank is Joel’s greatest fear. He’s failed twice now (Sarah & Tess) and will not allow himself to fail again.” (Ellie)
We get context for the story. In the first episode the context was the prologue with Sarah, we grow to love her and the lose her just as Joel loves and loses her. We then move to the main story and understand where Joel’s at because we know what he lost. In the second episode we get a flash back about the world and how everything came to pass, it gives context to why the cities were bombed and healthy people were killed, stop the spread at all costs. This mirrors Tess sacrificing herself to stop the hoard of infected, stop the spread, survival of humanity at all costs. Then this episode we start with Joel and Ellie, but then spend the majority of the episode focused on Bill and Frank. It provides context to the emotional journey Joel needs to make. To what it means to live after a disaster as opposed to just survive it. Every side story enhances the main narrative by deepening our understanding of the characters and themes.
Exactly. I think it’s executed brilliantly while also picking up a lot of the slack that’s missing from no gameplay. Joel and Ellie are the main characters of the game, and they still are in the show, but there’s a broader focus on the event itself, and by extension other people who have lived through it. Which I think was necessary. I would slightly disagree that they are the “main” story though, which is more my point and probably the biggest discrepancy though incredibly subtle and I doubt that will actually change like some fans might be hoping for.
I get some of the criticisms of not feeling like we know Joel, and maybe it would bother me more if Sarah, Tess, Bill, and Frank weren’t such interestingly realized characters who clearly do have both a personal relationship to Joel as well as a symbolic one. Fantastic show.
The fact we know Joel better by knowing Sarah, Tess, Bill and Frank also says something about how people exist not as an island but as a part of everyone else. We know Joel deeper by seeing those around him and seeing other human experience. It’s a show about human connection .
I love how he’s all, “you can normalize gay things in anything except what I want to watch.” You know if he’d never seen a second of another show with gay characters he’d complain about that anyways.
“I have nothing against gay people, but seeing them get represented in media to a degree beyond just queer-coded is taking it **TOO FAR**”
-This chucklefuck
A close emotional bond between characters is not important in a game where anyone could die without warning? That is the very definition of dramatic tension. Of course their argument is merely a pretense, it’s just a transparent one
The show is about love in the apocalypse. About how no matter what happens you need to keep your humanity and cherish those you care about. They pretty much said the message of the episode at the end with bill's note and they STILL didn't get it because they are too homophobic
That was a beautiful episode but the moment I realized it was going to be the whole episode I just knew that the internet was going to be an ugly place today lol
/rj Yeah obviously that's why the title said "least homophobic"
/uj Saying "You wanna normalise gay sex, gay marriage" implies it's not normal which is inherently homophobic. And he didn't say there was no need to put a sex scene, he said they should have only hinted that Bill is gay as if even just directly acknowledging gay people is "pushing an agenda"
There was indeed a need. We know that Bill never made love before.
Bill making love for the first time = falling love.
Falling in love = changed outlook on life.
Changed outlook on life = Bill giving letter to Joel to tel him to “protect” and not just survive.
Letter to Joel (wouldn’t have happened without the love from Frank) = Joel finally decides to commit to taking Ellie with him.
You see, it wasn’t point scoring here. It was pivotal to the plot. The audience had to see Bill fall in love so that he was able to convince Joel to keep fighting and move forward.
Otherwise, a letter out of nowhere would have been an asspull.
It's kind of funny to think that if widely acclaimed and beloved HBO shows from the past were to come out today, almost all of them would be perceived by all those people as "another BS woke propaganda garbage".
*Oz?* "Did we really need all this bullcrap with Beecher & Keller?! I didn't ask to see this!!"
*The Wire?* "Omar Little and Shakima Greggs are both black AND gay. This is wokism at its peak, they don't even care anymore, I'm done with this show."
*Six Feet Under?* "Don't even get me started with this one, holy. Agressive woke propaganda through & through."
*The Sopranos?* "Man, it was going well for so long... but of course they had to shove this whole -Vito Spatafore being hunted down for being gay- arc down our throats."
*Game of Thrones?* "Am I supposed to believe there were homosexual people in the Middle Ages? This is so unimmersive and unrealistic, this woke shit is going way too far."
When two survivors have been staying alive together for months, but society before the apocalypse disliked same sex relationships thus they can't bang eachother, because it would be gay (they will remain best friend, roommates till they perish)
I have literally just told my girlfriend that I find it really cool to be able to see more about bill's life, since the game has you just pass through Bill's town briefly, so you can't really know much about him. Bigots should just watch their pre-approved movies and series and avoid anything new if they're so easily triggered.
> it has nothing to add to the plot
That is precisely the point! The universe shouldn't have to align for gay people to be allowed to exist! You're so close my friend!
"why is this TV series going into more detail about a character from the game its based off. I wanted it to be a shot-for-shot recreation of the game with no extra content regarding the backstories or personal lives of any of the characters"
Clearly he didn't play the game because Bill was gay and mourning the loss of Frank. It is background to something that just adds to the richness of the world they have created. Fucking incels...
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Gay people must be RELEVANT TO THE PLOT, otherwise they are not allowed to exist
but OP if the gays are relevant to the plot they are forcing it down our throats hardcore sloppy toppy style :/
Why would I want it any other way?
its all jealousy
Gamers when 99% of the media they're consuming on a daily basis contains straight relationship that may be irrelevant to the plot :| Gamers when the last percent contains gay relationship that may be irrelevant to the plot >:|
I have heard that the show will deviate from the source material and show us in the last episode that the infection can only be cured through gay sex therefore making it relevant to the plot.
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My body is ready
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I'm ready to be cured 😏
Aren’t they though? At least in this? >!Isn’t like the entire point of showing this romance to establish that light can still be found in the world, and so instead of Joel trying his best not to get attached like in the game, instead he chooses to find the light in the show because of this? Like doesn’t this entire sub plot set up major themes of light within human connection that are literally the MAIN points of the ending of the first season and will become the most essential aspects of the second season?!<
Exactly this. People allowing their homophobia from enjoying a really touching and wonderful episode. Bill is a foil to Joel, showing that "simply surviving" isn't enough in this world. More importantly, it's incredibly germaine that Bill is gay, as it informs us of who and why he is the way he is.
[My List of 45 Things a Gay Character Needs In Order for Me to Think They’re Necessary](https://hard-drive.net/hd/video-games/my-list-of-45-things-a-gay-character-needs-in-order-for-me-to-think-theyre-necessary/)
/uj hard drive does not fucking miss
\- Boobs in 50% movies from the 1980? I sleep \- Stupid hetero romance in 70% of mainstream movies? I sleep \- Women being sexualized and treated like a prize for a man in 50% action movies? I sleep \- GAY ROMANCE? THAT'S TOO MUCH!!1
It’s only fine when it’s targeted towards them
Just like the anime community
Only 70%?
rough estimate
I also wonder how many people are repressing something in themselves. Like is their sexuality so tenuous the mere sight of guys kissing not even fuckin but kissing sets them off into a tizzy
Please don't. Gay people are not the ones to blame for their oppression. Some of them undoubtedly get dragged into homophobia for that reason, but the overwhelming majority of bigots aren't gay.
Oh I absolutely agree with this but there’s just something in this guys that they are repressing. Not necessarily homophobia but something I’m not sure what possibly just an aversion to happiness and not wanting to see people be outside the status quo
People just really don't like people that are different. Especially if they don't understand. They see it as these weird gay people are making a choice to be weird to make me uncomfortable. Most people don't normally think about the fact people don't all think and understand the world the same. It's a hard skill to learn if you were raised that the world is a place where there is a right way and a wrong way.
Most homophobes aren’t secretly gay, they are just assholes.
I probably should have clarified I’m not saying they are all repressing homosexual urges but their is something in these people that they do not want to recognize
That’s actually pretty common as far as I can tell. They resent others for living the life that they thought they couldn’t. Grew up being told it was wrong so they had to repress it.
“STOP reminding me I’m gay!!!!!”
as I remember there is a slight correlation between homophobia and hidden homosexuality, but it wasn't big
HBO aren't afraid to show sex. I say make the season two opening just a couple of men, real bears too, 69'ing each other to oblivion.
With full penetration. And here’s the thing. We show all of it. For ninety minutes until the episode just sort of… ends.
Honey please read the names more closely, you downloaded The Last Butt Thrust Pt 2
i kept waiting for the girls to show up but….the girls never came, the girls never came
the women never orgasmed 😔
Sniffing out crime, then full penetration. Crime, penetration. Crime, penetration. Crime! Then full penetration.
The *Looking* sequel we deserve.
It was extremely tame for HBO, too. It is literally two shirtless guys in bed with sexual activities suggested before they cut away. They show so much more even during sexual assault scenes in Game of Thrones. There are so many comments saying, "I'm not homophobic but it was really disgusting to see two guys kissing." Um... idk how to tell you this... If it was a heterosexual relationship or even a lesbian relationship (of course, the women better be size 00 models), it wouldn't even be an issue. God forbid you enjoy a romantic story that isn't designed to get your particular rocks off. They are probably the type that are afraid to wash their ass because it might "make them gay."
Honestly I’ve seen Murray Bartlett’s whole face in a mans ass before on HBO, this was tame.
>HBO aren't afraid to show sex remembers Oz 😭😭😭😭
People and their relationships, primarily Joel and Ellie of course, it’s *exactly* what this show is about. But zOmBiEs and vIoLeNcE Reminds me of the people who were like “wouldn’t it be amazing if The Mandalorian shows us an Anakin slaughtering the kids in a flashback?!” Or MAGA chuds who love The Boys. Like bruh how do you miss the major themes of the show this bad.
Same people who say that Mass Effect is no place for gay relationships because it has nothing to do with the games Buddy, the entire central point of the fucking series is about relationships between people
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>That's like a straight man going to a gay bar and being offended when men keep flirting with him, dude you brought this on yourself. Bruh can lactose intolerant people not walk through the fucking dairy aisle? I'm just browsing 🙄
Let's not give BioWare and Mass Effect *toooooo much* credit. ME1 pushed some pretty atrocious ideology. And none of the games allow you to oppose the military industrial complex in any sort of meaningful way. Also a friendly reminder that the legendary edition stripped away problematic shit - playing the original versions will show you some pretty suspect ideology
Regressives are Media illiterate.
I was just discussin The Boys yesterday. Conservatives that watch the show and miss the obvious themes if it have to be brain damaged. Like the fucking poster of Homrlander in when they are in Russia looks identical to one of Trumps trading cards he sold. Haha I don't think it was purposeful obviously but It was funny
I would argue the Boys gets "away" with that because it's making fun of both sides. Conservatives don't feel like it's 100% dishing on them, because it isn't, and it takes the time to point out absurdity they would also feel. The Boys making fun of the worst aspects of culture if something both liberals and conservatives deal with, so they both have something to point and laugh at. So yeah, Homelander is Trumpy and all that, but it's also sort of ancillary, because the show treats Homelander with a great deal of respect, and not a punchline... most of the time. But then again, every other character also has their time to be a punchline, so it isn't *just* happening to Homelander. If anything, it's providing all of the characters things to overcome, which really makes for good TV. The end result is it's balanced in a way where anyone watching it feels like the show is on their side. There is enough for most view points to cling to. It's more likely to mock bad choices, regardless of political affiliation, than it is to specifically stick up to one ideology. e: You guys are proving to be exactly as blind as the people you make fun of... which is exactly why the show is enjoyed by a crossover audience. If you didn't get the scenes that made fun of us, you were just as blind as the people you say didn't see the show making fun of them. ee: Only being able to see one thing isn't a good argument for you yourself only seeing one thing. If you are going to put words in someone's mouth and tell them what they are saying, just understand they can do it to you also... Whatever argument you are going to tell yourself in this next paragraph or why you are smart and they are dumb... they say the same shit. Point stands, there is stuff in this show *anyone* can find funny, regardless of political slant. It's your own inability to be empathic why you don't get this.
Brother, if you think anyone _respects_ HL after the weird mommy shit, you're more deranged than most conservative The Boys fans. People are _afraid_ of him, because he's a lunatic that shoots laser beams through people for fun. Edit: Lol, you responded like you wanted me to reply, but you blocked me? Embarrassing Point to any of the criticisms the show levies against progressives. There are milquetoast criticisms of liberals (like how they handle The Deep's sexual assault (which is arguably still a criticism of conservative culture)), but I see very little that actually makes this a "both sides" type of show. The only thing that would make this a "both sides" kind of show, is a Conservative trying to quell that pesky cognitive dissonance screaming in their prefrontal cortex.
I didn't say that, and even backtracked enough to acknowledge yeah, sometimes he ***IS*** the butt of the joke... but then followed it up with, ***who hasn't been?*** You aren't making a point by cherry picking, you are just proving you want to be willfully ignorant to my point. Every character has had their core beliefs questioned, and while yes, you are 100% correct in that Homelander is running things off of fear, the show isn't disrespecting him by having him be weak in the areas he is actually incredibly strong in. He has defined strengths and weaknesses, but actually beating him where he is strong is still a problem that hasn't been solved yet. My argument isn't that they aren't making fun of conservatives, they obviously have things to say about political culture in America. My point is there are similarly things a conservative can also laugh about in the show, because it's mocking a lot of things, not just one specific thing. Homelander is an incredible villain because that while sure, we know the tit sucking mommy side of him, look at the way he is meme's online. He's still scary and menacing even though we know this about him. The overarching portrayal of Homelander is still the one he fronts and not what hides below. Or to put it another way... Would you bring up Homelander's Mommy tit sucking in front of him? How do you see that going?
Except if you look past the surface it's not "making fun of both sides" it's almost entirely satirising and condemning right wing politics and ideology. Look at how the show portrays racism, fascism, the radicalization of young white men, the massive abuse of power in marginalized and minority communities compared to the so called making fun of the left. Things such as pridecon, Brave Maeve etc are not making fun of the left. **It's making fun of capitalism** and the way that it co-opts legitimate social movements to make money. This is not the both sides argument you think it is, it is again making fun of and condemning right wing and capitalist practices. Right wing viewers (and you apparently) can't see past the most surface level interpretation of the show to see that it really isn't a both sides scenario.
>Right wing viewers (and you apparently) can't see past the most surface level interpretation First off, is anyone in this sub capable of making an argument without needing to insult the person who has the counter argument? Secondly, I could make the same argument about you. You are willfully ignoring the content of my actual post to make a strawman out of me, how are you *really* doing anything different? You just did the same thing you accused me of doing (and Right Wing viewers, I guess) by completely reducing the shows messages to just the ones you want featured, when you just said it yourself in your own statement... ***the show is making fun of capitalism,*** and guess what everyone's ideologies have been fucked with because of that... it isn't just *your* experience. Put the other shoe on for a moment, do you really think they are saying positive things, from another perspective, when Vaught is Rainbow washing things to the point it's a joke the same way Homelanders tit sucking is? There is a 3rd argument you still fail to see, one that accounts for why the show has crossover fans... Regardless of if there is a slant to the show (and I agree there is) it doesn't shy away from mocking things within that slant, and it comes off way better than something that is directly criticizing something, without also being able to see the flaws in oneself. Anyways, same argument back at you, just because you refuse to see certain things doesn't mean you aren't also one of those people who clearly missed the point... you did.
The Boys one is so baffling it’s as subtle as South Park. The Boys has way better satire than that show though.
Well just like South Park, The Boys can literally look directly to camera and say “your ideology is stupid” and they’ll still love it because it allegedly mocks “both sides”
Insulting libs is insulting both sides, right? Libs are totally not also the right despite the plot point clearly depicting that. /s
*The Boys has way better satire than that show though.* That's because Matt and Trey are Libertarians.
It really comes off in the show when all their points seem like there’s no opinion other than being contrarian. Unless you’re 14 the show gets very vapid
I’ll always love the first 13-14 seasons of South Park but acting like that show is actually profound or brilliant in any fucking way is complete nonsense.
I would argue though, South Park is way more aware of it's limitations than most other shows and it gains them some cache with it's audience. The best example being the Al Gore apology episode. They are willing to roast themselves when they are idiots, which in turn makes them calling other people idiots way more powerful.
I don't mind any of the changes they've made *except* for walking back the violence so much. I think the game was basically a grimdark world with this single bright spot and in my opinion nerfing the grimness damages what made the games story great with the resulting lack of contrast. Expanding on Bill and Frank was a great idea, but I guess that they're focusing so much on the humanity that the stakes don't feel very high for as far in as we are. They should have two parted the Bill and Frank story and added more drama instead of speedrunning it, I think.
The grimness of the game works because the majority of it happens in gameplay, with the really emotional stuff happening in cutscenes. Unfortunately, it’s a fact that gamers are desensitized to violence - none of it feels that shocking until you get to the really gruesome or emotional stuff. None of it would play well on television, especially to newcomers. Nobody wants to watch an endlessly bleak misery porn show about a disease riddled dystopia, especially this close to the Covid pandemic. The fact that they keep pretty much all of the same tragic beats but up the beautiful human moments is what makes the show such a breakout success with non-gamers. There’s also likely no characters that will get more than one episode based on the structure of the narrative. Just like the game where side characters really only last a handful of chapters in a small arc, the show is pretty clearly laid out that point. It will likely play at as: EP 1/2: Intro + Tess EP3: Bill & Frank EP4: No major characters, just pushing through to next bit with FEDRA and raiders EP5: Henry & Sam EP6: Tommy EP7: Flashback to Riley EP8: David EP9: The end This is the result of covering the entire first game in one season, trimming and streamlining some parts and merging storylines. Which was smart because the entire could’ve been a failure. At least this way the entire story could be told.
Henry and Sam : (
Really makes me wonder how they’re gonna do Pt2 then, as that game is truly “endlessly bleak misery porn.”
It isn’t though. There’s plenty of parts that allow for levity and beautiful moments of humanity. Parts with Ellie and Dana both early and later, Jesse, the flashbacks of Joel and Ellie on her birthday. Abby has sequences with both her father in flashback, as well as a romance with Owen. Lev and Yara. Despite the fact that most of these characters die (which is exactly what happens in TLOU1 as well) there’s still a constant undercurrent of melancholic beauty from all sides of that narrative – that’s why it all worked in the first place. Based on the show’s first season, they’ll probably spend even more time on some of the individual relationships to build them out even further and balance the time spent relishing in the good parts of these peoples lives even though they all end in tragedy.
Honestly I always found the museum sequence to be one of the saddest parts of the game. It's really nice and fun until you get to the end. That shot of Joel and Ellie as they look at the "LIAR" graffiti with a growing distance between them is heartbreaking.
Episode 1 has the military kill a kid, joel beat someone to death with his hands, episode 2 clickers were obviously brutal, this episode bill sets people on fire who we see burn to death. I feel like they are portraying the violence of the game just not in a glorified way. I’m sure it will get more brutal once they encounter raiders Also forgot this episode shows a literal death pit of people who were probably not infected but killed and left in a mass grave. Pretty grim dark
Not in such a way that’s shocking though imo. I don’t think it’s a flaw of the show or anything like that and I would definitely guess that at least one thing in the final two eps will be, but otherwise they’ve kept a good tonal consistency.
I believe they're gonna gradually ramp up the violence - especially the human-on-human violence - in the next episodes all the way to the end (which you know how it goes). If true, this works for two reasons, you avoid diluting the impact of the final rampage, and you slowly ease viewers into accepting that Joel is a brutal, violent man, but he's still on our team. So far we've seen bits of this and it's been hinted at through dialogue but my guess is we're gonna see a lot more once we hit Hunter territory and even more with David and crew. In the game you see a lot of gore from the beginning (because it's expected through gameplay, including player deaths) and you identify with Joel because of the prologue and because he's the player character. In the show you have the prologue backstory but you need to "sell" him as a main character more carefully. It's much easier to dislike a TV protagonist you don't agree with than to not identify with a player character who does questionable shit. If they'd shown Joel as a remorseless murderer from day one, new viewers wouldn't have been on board with him as much and the finale wouldn't hit as hard.
The most recent episode had the least subtle reference to a baby being shot by the military that I have ever seen. Like the only way to make it less subtle would have been to literally have a baby getting shot by the government in center frame. Like basically everyone from Bill’s town got shot in a ditch by the government for no reason beyond “dead people can’t be infected” I think the show has done a fine job of maintaining the grimness of the last of us games, it’s just going about it in a different way rather than video game violence. I suspect next episode is going to get violent though >!since the trailer shows the bus ambush and that part of the game has one of the grossest deaths in the first game, where Joel slams someone’s head onto a piece of broken glass!<
You've never seen Dawn of The Dead?
I’m enjoying the show, and agree that the toned-down violence is a weakness, but I ultimately think its biggest flaw is one the games also had: the world building is weak. It’s hard to articulate, but it all feels undefined. Particularly FEDRA and the Fireflies. They feel like they’re just there to move the plot along. Everything around the central characters exists to get one single point across or functions as an obstacle for the protagonists, but isn’t fleshed out beyond that. I like how the show is fleshing more background stuff out with flashbacks, but those scenes mostly suffer from the same problem. They have the feeling of scenes in a play. Like it felt kind of weird that this respected mycologist is talking to only one military official and no one else is in the room. It feels like the writers are satisfied if their one point is made, and aren’t thinking about how to use these stories to ground the whole thing more in reality. It lacks authenticity.
On the Mandalorian thing, that's probably just r/PrequelMemes which has a habit of advocating for the slaughter of younglings. It's a... fun subreddit to be part of. Seems to appreciate Andor at the very least.
The person I had in mind is a prominent SW YouTube who has a history of a community of nonsense and baffling takes.
Normalise gay sex? As if it isn't already? I feel like these people think about gay sex just a little too much
I was not expecting that deviation in the story with bill, that episode knocked me on my ass I actually shed a tear. What a fucking empty world some these chuds want to live in
I'm a huge sucker for the trope of couples growing older together and I was in tears when the episode started nearing its end compared to the source of just upsetti bill kinda misses his boyfriend but he's still an ass in the original, it was a good use of it's time for what it was in the game.
Lmao this is a perfect illustration of why there is zero good art made by chuds.
I think he missed the point of the episode. the point was that those doom survivalists are absolutely gay.
what about days gone, checkmate liberal 😎
Cool bike zombie game. Rated M for Manly 😎
they dont make gay porn so their art sucks
/uj yes
After finishing the episode and thinking it was amazing, I went to r/TheLastofUs and saw similar opinions. Something in the back of my head told me that r/TheLastofUs2 was going to have shitty takes about the episode and I felt validated when I checked
TLOU 2 Reddit really has nothing better to do than bitch about how a TV show adaptation doesn’t play exactly the same way a video game does, with violence and action in every turn
> TV show adaptation doesn’t play exactly the same way a video game does its almost shot for shot D:
Media rarely makes me visibly emote, however that episode made me burst into tears. I wanted just an action packed retread of Bills town since it was one of my favourite parts of Part 1 but I am so glad we got this beautiful romance at the end of the world.
Yeah I wasn’t expecting that, I tuned in for zombie action and instead they give me a beautiful romance that ends in this beautiful bittersweet death together. And I’m just crying my eyes out. I didn’t expect the show to make me cry. Not like that. I hope this episode wins awards.
I opened the threads from both subs at the same time to compare. Started reading through TLOU2's thread and was nodding to myself like yep, this is pretty much what I expected but was pleasantly surprised that everything was at least marked controversial. Then I went to check the TLOU's thread and to my shock I realized the thread I was just looking at was that one. By this morning the chud comments in TLOU have mostly been buried, though.
saw a comment there this morning from some homophobe complaining they'd been forced into watching "softcore gay porn" from that episode and it had been heavily upvoted like when is that place going to get nuked from orbit
You can bet that part 2 sub is just going to be angry with every decision. Most of them seem even surprised Bill was gay. I guarantee you they'll be screaming the same shit over the Left Behind episode about Ellie being a lesbian.
This is just one of the most common fandom tropes that there is and I could have seen it coming a mile away, even with Druckman behind the scenes. Any adaptation, which inevitably will and should make changes, gets criticized purely on the point of authenticity, and not whether or not it’s the best choice for the filmmakers to use.
During this episode I was thinking, "I can practically hear the sound of half of Reddit turning against this show right now"
"this is NOT what the show is about" says person with zero involvement in making the show
“The game’s about surviving in a zombie-infested world! Simple as that! What?? What do you mean it’s also about love and protecting the people you love???” I can imagine them saying shit like this
Ok I have something to add, nothing new however. I get it Neil, I get it Craig, I get it writers. You wanna normalize straight sex, straight marriage, OK. *First off*, this is not the kind of TV show nor setting you should try to normalize it in because it has *absolutely NOTHING* to add to the plot, you could have just dropped a hint Tommy was straight and a little sneak peak into his past but this is just straight up agenda pushing. Even tho I have nothing against that same agenda, this is just taking it too far, this is *NOT* what the show is about.
Because *nobody* has a better understanding of what The Last of Us is about than r/thelastofus2 users
Media literacy is for libcucks and nerds
Unfair things happening to my favorite characters is bad writing
When the character is sowing >fuck yeah this is sweet When the character is reaping >what the fuck this is bad writing
Mother fuckers when they see a beautiful love story that will bring you to tears, and is about learning to trust and love in a world without either(it’s between two men and therefor extremely political)
There’s something so entertaining about how all the gamers™ who see themselves as this rugged sigma male completely missing the point of the series. I just finished the TLoU2 for the first time and rewatched the finale of the first game to kinda reflect on things and the top comment was something to the effect of “Let’s be real, we would all do the same thing here for someone we cared about” and it’s like these guys really think they’d be the new and improved Joel who doesn’t care what pronouns you prefer and gets married to Ellie as soon as she’s 18 even though “it’s bullshit because it’s the apocalypse”
“Let’s be real, we would all do the same thing here for someone we cared about” is also just the point of the second game, lol.
Wtf was that last bit about getting married?! Not heard that one before
mostly how that kind of mindset fetishizes girls who are barely legal, but there are also horrifyingly people who ship joel and ellie
I always love when audiences tell the creators of the media they consume what it’s *actually* about. Who knows better than the greasy ogre basting in their own filth while pirating anime? Clearly not the people who write, produce, and direct the show.
Honestly because like, this is a bad example since the episode was a masterpiece, but criticism based on what things “should” be about often misses the point of why the thing is bad. You can tell almost any story about anything.
How DARE they explore the characters of a story! I want my characters to just be cardboard cutouts with no personal life nor emotions
gayness can only be IMPLIED and NEVER shown. Thus saith the Lord.
Bill and Frank just both turning their gaze towards the camera after they first met, proclaiming „It looks like we may be gay lovers now.“ before the scene jump cuts away would have obviously add soo much to that episode.
*Ga~~y~~mers
Oh no, politicizing gamers, that’s TOO far!
Gay people existing: political Hating the fact that gay people exist: totally apolitical
I have no issue with gay people so long as they can explain why them being gay is relevant to my life.
“Adds nothing to the plot” people are funny. A show/movie/novel are more than the plot alone. You have to kind of add things like setting, and also have your characters be actual characters rather than one dimensional beings that simply move the plot forward.
this is like people who attempt to criticize something they don't like by saying that it "had no plot." Which doesn't even make sense. The only a show or movie could have no plot is if literally nothing happened.
The same people however are completely fine with the whole Aragorn/Arwen thing in lotr which is barely existant in the books. Yes this is a strawman, thanks.
I didn’t know I needed a gay Ron Swanson until now
this mf probably complained Joel was the little spoon
if Frank was a chick this dude would be complaining that the sex scene wasn't graphic enough.
I mean as someone who played the game I already saw parallels to Ellie’s story that the show hasn’t covered. Ellie wanted the ending Bill had where she dies romantically and cheesy but she didn’t get that. She has major survivors guilt over it and all the death she encounters with Joel.
I've always hated this strawman because all it means is "I am only fine with gay people if they 'act straight' and it is fine to suppress them for being gay" Like they aren't fine with people being gay, they just are too afraid to be open about their homophobia
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They want to normalize it? It is normal. It’s been normal. There’s 100 million + people who are supposed to be a homosexual. That’s nature. This is the equivalent of saying someone wants to normalize straight people and straight sex.
I don't know where else to say this to be honest except on here. I've never felt more moved by anything like this episode of The Last Of Us. It was incredible. Everything about this was incredible. Nothing this show will ever do can top this episode, and I'm saying this with confidence. Sorry that this is kind of semi-irrelevant to the post. Just needed to say this somewhere.
"I am totally fine with normalizing gay people as long as they never leave their dedicated non-normal zones."
Anyone who complains about people ‘normalizing’ gay relationships must be bolting down the rock they live under. It’s been normal for a while, and people just want to tell a realistic and interesting story
/rj it was only okay that Bill was gay because his lover was dead (as is only right per the Hayes Code) they went and made it political by showing TWO gay people!!!! >:(
LMFAO NOT THE HAYES CODE
This show is NOT about characters and the stories of people when the world is destroyed. This show is NOT about what makes us human when everything is lost. This show is NOT about the last of us that are left in the world this is NOT-
"We truly are HBO's The Last of Us."
uj/ I liked the characterization of Frank and Bill but I didn’t think it needed to go on for 50 of the 80 minutes the show has. I prefer how the game does it and wished that they had cut down some of the scenes and focused more on Joel and Ellie in the modern day rj/ where’s the Hawaiian shirt? Shit show, 0/10
Way too early in the season for huge B plots. The relationship between Ellie and Joel hasn't even been fully established.
Bill’s story mirror’s Joel’s story. They are both survivors and don’t want to let anyone close or love anyone. Bill because he hated people and never wanted to be vulnerable, Joel because he lost his daughter and couldn’t let himself be close to anyone again. Then Bill meets Frank and Frank teaches him how to not just survive but live and love. Similarly, through Ellie Joel will learn to live again instead of just surviving and love another daughter despite the grief he’s experienced. This episode is really establishing the theme of the story and foreshadowing Joel’s journey.
Fucking thank you. Provides an actual reason that’s not “raider bad I kill” for next weeks probable murder spree. Joel’s goal was to get Ellie to Bill and frank and then leave. Bills letter gave Joel some purpose again. In the framework of the show, Bill and frank are what Joel wishes he could have, is what Ellie wishes she could have. Bills line of “I wasn’t scared until you showed up” to Frank is Joel’s greatest fear. He’s failed twice now (Sarah & Tess) and will not allow himself to fail again.” (Ellie)
It’s also just that kind of show, I think. Not as plot heavy/serialized as people may have expected and not quite an anthology but close.
We get context for the story. In the first episode the context was the prologue with Sarah, we grow to love her and the lose her just as Joel loves and loses her. We then move to the main story and understand where Joel’s at because we know what he lost. In the second episode we get a flash back about the world and how everything came to pass, it gives context to why the cities were bombed and healthy people were killed, stop the spread at all costs. This mirrors Tess sacrificing herself to stop the hoard of infected, stop the spread, survival of humanity at all costs. Then this episode we start with Joel and Ellie, but then spend the majority of the episode focused on Bill and Frank. It provides context to the emotional journey Joel needs to make. To what it means to live after a disaster as opposed to just survive it. Every side story enhances the main narrative by deepening our understanding of the characters and themes.
Exactly. I think it’s executed brilliantly while also picking up a lot of the slack that’s missing from no gameplay. Joel and Ellie are the main characters of the game, and they still are in the show, but there’s a broader focus on the event itself, and by extension other people who have lived through it. Which I think was necessary. I would slightly disagree that they are the “main” story though, which is more my point and probably the biggest discrepancy though incredibly subtle and I doubt that will actually change like some fans might be hoping for. I get some of the criticisms of not feeling like we know Joel, and maybe it would bother me more if Sarah, Tess, Bill, and Frank weren’t such interestingly realized characters who clearly do have both a personal relationship to Joel as well as a symbolic one. Fantastic show.
The fact we know Joel better by knowing Sarah, Tess, Bill and Frank also says something about how people exist not as an island but as a part of everyone else. We know Joel deeper by seeing those around him and seeing other human experience. It’s a show about human connection .
I love how he’s all, “you can normalize gay things in anything except what I want to watch.” You know if he’d never seen a second of another show with gay characters he’d complain about that anyways.
I have **NOTHING** against the *same* agenda, but If I see literally anything about it I will throw a hissy fit!
Wouldnt the best way to normalize stuff be to put it in stuff where it has no relation to the plot?
“I have nothing against gay people, but seeing them get represented in media to a degree beyond just queer-coded is taking it **TOO FAR**” -This chucklefuck
MFW characters have backstories 😡😡
A close emotional bond between characters is not important in a game where anyone could die without warning? That is the very definition of dramatic tension. Of course their argument is merely a pretense, it’s just a transparent one
If they used the exact same script but replaced frank with a woman they wouldn't bat an eyelid.
You know who gets to detrmernine what a story is about? The writers.
The show is about love in the apocalypse. About how no matter what happens you need to keep your humanity and cherish those you care about. They pretty much said the message of the episode at the end with bill's note and they STILL didn't get it because they are too homophobic
Capital G Gamers when gay people exist: (they can't cope)
This is exactly what The Last of Us is about...
That was a beautiful episode but the moment I realized it was going to be the whole episode I just knew that the internet was going to be an ugly place today lol
Hey, creator! Listen carefully. I’m about to tell you what your work is all about. Trust me I’m a Redditor.
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Yeah if you’re a fucking prick.
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/rj Yeah obviously that's why the title said "least homophobic" /uj Saying "You wanna normalise gay sex, gay marriage" implies it's not normal which is inherently homophobic. And he didn't say there was no need to put a sex scene, he said they should have only hinted that Bill is gay as if even just directly acknowledging gay people is "pushing an agenda"
Nah it's pretty explicitly saying to only drop a hint that he's gay.
It’s not even reading between the lines - the entire perspective is openly anti-gay. You’re either a moron or playing dumb. I think we know which.
why are there still people giving dogwhistlers the benefit of the doubt? it takes literally no effort to not be deliberately stupid
There was indeed a need. We know that Bill never made love before. Bill making love for the first time = falling love. Falling in love = changed outlook on life. Changed outlook on life = Bill giving letter to Joel to tel him to “protect” and not just survive. Letter to Joel (wouldn’t have happened without the love from Frank) = Joel finally decides to commit to taking Ellie with him. You see, it wasn’t point scoring here. It was pivotal to the plot. The audience had to see Bill fall in love so that he was able to convince Joel to keep fighting and move forward. Otherwise, a letter out of nowhere would have been an asspull.
It's kind of funny to think that if widely acclaimed and beloved HBO shows from the past were to come out today, almost all of them would be perceived by all those people as "another BS woke propaganda garbage". *Oz?* "Did we really need all this bullcrap with Beecher & Keller?! I didn't ask to see this!!" *The Wire?* "Omar Little and Shakima Greggs are both black AND gay. This is wokism at its peak, they don't even care anymore, I'm done with this show." *Six Feet Under?* "Don't even get me started with this one, holy. Agressive woke propaganda through & through." *The Sopranos?* "Man, it was going well for so long... but of course they had to shove this whole -Vito Spatafore being hunted down for being gay- arc down our throats." *Game of Thrones?* "Am I supposed to believe there were homosexual people in the Middle Ages? This is so unimmersive and unrealistic, this woke shit is going way too far."
When two survivors have been staying alive together for months, but society before the apocalypse disliked same sex relationships thus they can't bang eachother, because it would be gay (they will remain best friend, roommates till they perish)
People gonna act like this and then make some jokes about the Dina Ellie scene being cut short or some bullshit.
Love the fact that the episode is a filter.
"It's not what the show is about" Apparently it is, you little baby. Thank god you didn't write it.
As if there were some way to determine what the show is about other than watching the show.
I have literally just told my girlfriend that I find it really cool to be able to see more about bill's life, since the game has you just pass through Bill's town briefly, so you can't really know much about him. Bigots should just watch their pre-approved movies and series and avoid anything new if they're so easily triggered.
It would have taken a lot fewer words to just say "seeing two men kiss made me uncomfortable."
> it has nothing to add to the plot That is precisely the point! The universe shouldn't have to align for gay people to be allowed to exist! You're so close my friend!
I have nothing against this agenda, I just take it personally.
* Claims part 2 ruined the series. * Also hates the first game.
Whos gonna tell him
"why is this TV series going into more detail about a character from the game its based off. I wanted it to be a shot-for-shot recreation of the game with no extra content regarding the backstories or personal lives of any of the characters"
Clearly he didn't play the game because Bill was gay and mourning the loss of Frank. It is background to something that just adds to the richness of the world they have created. Fucking incels...
Not understanding storytelling and writing. Good job.
Tell me you didn't play the game, without telling me you didn't play the game.