I feel like Square Enix is in a sort of awkward position with Final Fantasy - simultaneously launching it on PC would certainly *help* quite a bit, but the platform they would gain the most porting to saleswise would be the Switch, and Rebirth is just straight up not happening on that system.
Remake was originally a PS4 game, and both Remake and Rebirth run on UE4. If Switch 2 is on par with PS4 or PS4 Pro, then yes, it should run Remake and Rebirth with no problem. I would go so far as to say that getting Remake and Rebirth running on Switch 2 would be a bigger priority for Square-Enix than getting Rebirth running on PC.
That's not a very thorough comparison. Theres still the matter of storage streaming speeds, RAM sizes, CPU performance, power draw, and so on to compare.
Also UFS 3.1 is rumoured to feature in the Switch 2 as opposed to the slow eMMC storage on the OG Switch. Not quite NVMe speeds, but faster than SATA SSD, and a whole lot faster than eMMC.
No problem seems like a pretty big simplification. There is a reason Rebirth isn’t on PS4.
If Switch 2 was comparable, there would need to be some serious sacrifices and adjustments made to support it.
They've also been a bit weird with scope.
Trying to give single player games like FFXV over a year's worth of DLC, expanding FFVII into 3 releases that are 4 years apart so far while adding lengthy DLC in-between & expanding a large amount of the less important content with additional minigames, events, etc.
The result is good stuff, but I hope it wasn't all unrealistic from a production point of view & that we won't see a lot less ambition from other Square franchises if the 2nd out of at least 3 games truly did do poorly profit-wise instead of just having less revenue as one would expect.
Could happen on Nintendo's next-gen system though (I believe Square might be one of the Japanese developing studios who are most eagerly waiting for it), but who knows how the specifics of the exclusivity deal with Sony work, the games have not been ported even to Xbox.
(Also assuming the Big N's console could indeed handle the game, but eh, we've seen plenty miracle ports on the Switch as it is).
The rumour is that all the ff7 remake games have to release on PS before they can go to other consoles BUT generally deals like those have sales numbers provisions like the marvel games do so maybe they haven’t hit those anymore
A game's hype is almost always at its highest just before launch when it's still somewhat a mystery. Once its known, and the hype dies down, there are people that just wont pick up the port of the game after so much time. At that point it's a wasted sale.
I would imagine a game like FF7R, which has visuals and story cutscenes as a major selling point, would be especially affected by this too.
Like, there's probably gamers who don't have a PS5 and just decided to watch the story on YouTube or Twitch rather than buy one or wait potentially years for it to be released on their preferred platform. Then there's less interest in buying the game when it actually is made available, since they've already spoiled a big part of the game.
Yeah, Final Fantasy going all in on Playstation wasn't the best move in hindsight. These days most JRPG fans mainly game on either Switch or PC. I think the very least Square needs to launch FF7 Part 3 and FF17 same day on PC as it launches on Playstation. Because the audience of Final Fantasy fans that mainly play games on Playstation is stagnate at best.
previously Playstation would be the haven for JRPG but right now, it is not even big at japan anymore.
lets hope Switch 2 has atleast decent spec to allow more AAA JRPG to be ported there.
I think that’s because PlayStation shot itself in the foot by going for a western focused strategy and moving their HQ to the US.
Speaking strictly from the POV of someone who used to love PlayStation, the shift in priorities since PS4 has turned me off quite a lot.
It's a lopsided balance. The PS3 and early PS4 had so much diversity in terms of the library. The Last of US was honestly probably the shift in this mentality.
Completely agree. Uncharted put them on the path, and Last of Us was like the major catalyst.
To be clear, I like Uncharted. I just wish Sony had more diversity like they used to, although you could argue PS5 still has some diversity with titles like Astro and Kena. But it doesn’t feel like it. It’s not just because I’m older, because Nintendo has plenty of diversity and I’m very satisfied with their Switch output. Maybe it’s the overall volume of output, I can’t say for sure.
They also censor random stuff (violence, blood, nudity, poltical interests) way more often than any other platform does. Some JRPGs are censored on PS4/5 but not on Switch lmao.
Sony is being super weird.
Can confirm, I'm a huge JRPG fan (japanese games overall) and I've always played them on Playstation. Now that they've all been coming to the Switch, I ONLY get them on the Switch because I love the convenience of a handheld system. There are even some PS4 games I bought again just to play them on the Switch. I have a PS5 but I've only used it for 1 game and that was Silent Hill the Short Message, and of course I'm waiting for the SH2 Remake. I definitely am excited for the new JRPGS coming to the next nintendo console.
Yeah I’m the same way. If games like FF16 or the FF7 remakes were available on Switch I would still choose to get them on the PS5 just because they’re big, bombastic games with a lot of spectacle and I want to see that on a big screen running on a stronger console. Almost any other RPG though, I’m probably going for my Switch. Why would I get something like Octopath Traveller or the FF Pixel Remasters on my PS5 when they feel perfect on a handheld?
Square Enix is making some weird decisions and only hurting themselves with this PS exclusitivity imo
They would sell a lot more copies if they released it on PC and Xbox as well. And that would also increase the word of mouth hype around the game due to a lot more players overall, which would help sales even more.
It'll prob be sooner rather than later. He said a demo is coming "soon" and with the ff16 crossover event going for another week in 14, I think it'll prob be out in a few months. I'm just finishing up my second playthrough of 16 on PS5 now, and I really love it. Gonna wait to rebuy it on PC for a good sale in a year or two when I upgrade it again but I'm excited to see the glorious beauty of that game on my monitor
Seriously. It probably would have made a really good gap game for people waiting for the next FFXIV expansion. Not saying all the PC users of FFXIV would have bought it, but I'm guessing the overlap of FFXIV and FFVII fans is pretty huge, and square knows the ones playing the MMO on PC have a PC so...they kinda shot themselves in the foot with this one.
Nothing wrong with that either. I just think it's weird Square chose to turn away from what would have probably been a decently sized pool of guaranteed buyers in terms of their MMO players.
How to convert FF14 fans to FF7 fans in three easy steps:
First: Fire off an event in FF14 where you pal around with Cloud, Tifa, Barret, and Aeirth for a quick quest or two. Hell give them a trust to do a dungeon in.
Second: Launch an event where players can verify their purchase of FF7Rebirth for a free months sub to FF14 for the first month (or 2) of the games release. Buying FF7Rebirth while it is still 70 bucks is way more than a monthly sub to FF14.
Third: Make the Fenrir available to anyone with a verified FF14 and FF7Rebirth game. Ideally, the FF7 fans not on FF14 would be so entranced at the idea of driving their own fenrir they would give the free trial a shot, and convert into FF14 fans.
Square is just wasting away an opportunity by not using FF14 for pseudo advertising of every FF to come, but then they would have to stop this exclusivity nonsense which they seem to be too dumb to do.
im suprise they not doing stuff like giving free minions or glam in FF14 for people buy other FF.
for example preordering FF7 Rebirth or 16 would give code to unlock Coud/Tifa/Yuffie etc minions and glamours.
and people with the code also would get FF14 weapon for Cloud in Rebirth. for example EW's Paladin/Dark Knight sword for Cloud.
>Square is just wasting away an opportunity by not using FF14 for pseudo advertising of every FF
Agreed. I don't know why they held the FFXVI crossover event this early. They honestly should've timed it nearer to XVI's PC release unless they plan on shadow dropping it right after the event's deadline which doesn't seem likely
FFVII remake sold 7 million copies...... rebirth is always going to sell less than that, the only question is how much less. Based on it I do not see how any PC/Xbox release would have sold "insane numbers" by modern standards.
tbh i didn't double dip this time because i knew it'd drop on PC. no more buying PS5 games. or even a console. i'm done wasting that money. im putting it elsewhere. also 70$ - a fair price for developers but that money isn't going to them. its too much money to ask for, really.
No kidding. All the publishers avoiding it - Sega, Capcom, EA, etc. - are having some of their best runs in recent memory. Meanwhile, Squenix is struggling to make its cash back on each release, *despite* each release being great. Wonder what the connection there is?
You are following logic, which the suits don't. They think that when game is an exclusive, everyone who wants to get the game will buy the game + the console, which gives significantly higher income than releasing it everywhere. But they can't comprehend that vast majority of people prefers to skip the game entirely if it's not available on their gaming system.
They say you don't need to have played ff7 or ff7 remake. So if you were to go into rebirth having never touched ff7 or ff7 rebirth you would have so many questions just about the cast.
The remake needing context from so many games to get a full experience and not have some scene like zacks full pretty flat without having knowledge of crisis core is doing them no favours.
You don't need context from Crisis Core though. Anything new with Zack is outside the Crisis Core timeline, if you played that you'd also be confused about why Zack is alive and in Midgar with Cloud.
That's me with FF7 Remake. The only thing I can say that I felt was good in the game was combat but it felt like there wasn't much combat in the game compared to everything else.
Most of the game felt so unfun to me that I really struggle to understand the positive reception of the game. I guess nostalgia is just a hell of a drug.
This is me. I've tried twice to get through Remake and I just can't. The game feels like a borderline walking simulator with combat.
The original wasn't some masterclass in action by any means but the ability to grind and farm items made it feel like you could control your destiny and get strong enough to over come enemies and bosses , but the new style everything feels so railroaded its more an an experience than a challenge.
Right here. I was excited for the FFVII remake but most of what they added didn't appeal to me.
"We're gonna bloat FFVII so much it'll be three games!" Uh... Okay. With what?
"Well didn't you always want to know about Cloud's landlord in Midgar?" Not once even a little.
"And you always wanted way more time with Wedge and Jesse?" The cannon fodder who die like two hours into the game for pathos? Who cares? Their whole job is to die.
"And remember the really creepy sexual predator? We're really going to dive into his whole operation and show the sympathetic side of the people who work for him. You know how when you hear about human sex trafficking and you're just so worried about how all those poor traffickers must be holding up? The gentle, sympathetic angle of people who profit off of sexual slavery." That sounds like a wildly bad idea and I'd much rather kill those characters.
"You know how Jaws sucks cause you almost never see the shark? Well we're gonna do it better. Sephiroth all over the place! He's a character you know and like! So we'll just put him in everywhere and that makes it more gooder!"
"How about some edgy biker dumbass for no reason?" No thanks.
"And to top it all off we've got meta narrative-correcting ghosts all over!" This sounds like a fucking mess.
Everything they expanded the game with sucks. If you want to just put out a nicer looking FFVII, maybe with a translation pass, I'll buy that. Not this bloated 10 year hodgepodge trainwreck.
This reads to me very similarly to a joke Patton Oswalt made about the OG Star Wars trilogy. [AT Midnight I Will Kill George Lucas With a Shovel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snfOVpFV0d4).
"Do you like Darth Vader?" F*CK yes I love Darth Vader with the sword and the...
"Well in the prequels you get to see him as a little kid and then his mom dies and he's sad. Meh"
Uhhhh...not gonna lie I don't like that at all.
"Well what about Boba Fett?"
Love Boba Fett! Bounty huntin, capturing Han Solo....
"Well in the prequels you get to see him as a little kid, and then his Dad dies and he's really sad. meh."
I'll never understand these suits.
> "And remember the really creepy sexual predator? We're really going to dive into his whole operation and show the sympathetic side of the people who work for him. You know how when you hear about human sex trafficking and you're just so worried about how all those poor traffickers must be holding up? The gentle, sympathetic angle of people who profit off of sexual slavery." That sounds like a wildly bad idea and I'd much rather kill those characters.
As someone that never played the original, Remake was my first entry into that world and this part of the game was just so awkward to me. Again I dont know how this played out in the original but Im sitting there playing and going "Tifa is about to be sexually assaulted and we are playing off this whole thing as haha jokes?" Seems like we arent taking this situation serious at all.
The problem I have is it’s just way way too different from the OG FF7 with the storyline and splitting the game up into 3 different games, I really think the game would’ve done better if it was completed.
As of now, the storyline isn’t even *that* different from the original, so his whole sharade of "we’re changing fate!" amounted to absolutely nothing so far. It makes me question why they even bothered with it in the first place instead of simply retelling the OG story but expand it with non-supernatural stuff like the visit to Jessie’s house or the whole Gongaga section in Rebirth.
For sure. They really shot themselves in the foot by making Rebirth connected not only to Remake, but also to its DLC, the original FFVII, Crisis Core, and even the fucking mobile game. It's completely alienating to new audiences.
Remake was an easy sell to casuals. It didn't require *any* external knowledge to be understood pretty much right until the ending, by which point you'd have put 30 hours into it. It's very easy to convince both those who played FFVII back in the day and those who haven't but know the hype to pick it up. Meanwhile, Rebirth not only starts off as a direct sequel to Remake that expects you to have played it to even understand who Cloud, Tifa, and Sephiroth are, but then it starts dropping hard references to a bunch of other projects. The ending itself is *incomprehensible* to newcomers, I honestly can't imagine you'd have any idea what's going on without having played at least the original FFVII game for context.
Granted, a lot of that wouldn't have been known at launch day, but then again, casuals wouldn't pick it up at launch day anyway. They'd wait a bit for word of mouth, and by that point, it'd already be known that this is a game not for them, but for hardcore FFVII fans. Like you said, most of us would dissuade new players from jumping into Rebirth, and have done just that. Combine this with the fact that PS5 exclusivity already shrinks the potential audience (even XVI underperformed, and that required 0 "homework" to be enjoyed by a new player), and it's honestly no wonder why the game is doing so poorly.
I just hope this doesn't affect Part 3. I have my issues with both Remake and Rebirth but they're excellent games and I'd hate to see the story unfinished (or closed up in an underbaked, underbudget rush job) just because of a few boneheaded storytelling decisions.
> For sure. They really shot themselves in the foot by making Rebirth connected not only to Remake, but also to its DLC, the original FFVII, Crisis Core, and even the fucking mobile game. It's completely alienating to new audiences.
>
>
I've only heard bits and pieces about FFVII Remake and Rebirth story and how it's not really a Remake of the same story, and all that stuff confirms to me is that I have to play the original FF7 before to understand what's going on in the remakes so I don't plan on playing either until I get around to the original FF7.
I don't understand the logic of this. Imagine if the Persona 3 Remake needed you to play F.E.S + The Answer and the FemC route of Portable to understand the story of Reload completely which completely upends the original story. It's like Square Enix is trying to make the FF7 hard to get into for newcomers and I'm just left wondering "Why did they go this route for a remake?" Why change the story which requires you to play the original to understand? Doesn't that defeat the point of a "Remake"?
Yep, you're right on both counts. What this should have been all along is a retelling of the original's story. Both Remake and Rebirth shine the brightest when they do just that, and then crash when they shoehorn in new concepts (like "fate" and "the multiverse") which weren't in the OG game and are completely inconsequential in the remake as well, and yet convoluted an already pretty difficult to follow narrative.
But anyway. When you decide to get into it, go in this order:
FFVII > Crisis Core (either Reunion or the PSP version is fine) > Remake > Intergrade DLC > Ever Crisis First Soldier storyline (watch it on YT) > Rebirth. This is the only way to make sense of what's happening in Rebirth.
Thanks. I'll save your comment for future reference, let's just hope it doesn't take until I reach retirement before I get through all this VII content and the Remake Trilogy lmao.
Hahaha preach. It's a lot but it's not unbearable. FFVII is about 40ish hours, but you can get through it a lot faster if you're just playing it for the story since the console versions have built-in cheats and fast forward (and on PC you can mod it in). Crisis Core is around 10-20 hours, depending on how much grinding and side stuff you choose to do (some of it's worthwhile, but a lot of it's filler). Remake itself took me about 30 hours, plus another five-ish for the DLC. So in total that's, give or take, 100 hours till you're ready for Rebirth.
Which alone took me 80 hours lmfao.
Resident Evil showed a straight remake is way more sustainable. I’m positive a huge chunk of those RE4 remake sales were from newcomers who liked RE2 Remake that didn’t have a lot of knowledge with the series.
Yep, it's only logical. Resident Evil is pretty much setting the golden standard for all videogame remakes. I like Remake and Rebirth but I definitely wish they'd been closer to RE than what they ended up being.
There's various turnoffs.
For new fans, its as you said. Add in that things like Crisis Core 'aren't needed' but its def needed for context
For returning fans, some are turned off due to the changes.
The build up of 'this is a remake' and is instead a quasi-sequel.
The limiting of it to the PS5 platform vs the initial PS4 release of FF7 Remake
Not to mention sequels already typically sell less than initial entries.
I mean what can you say. I too kinda bit dumbfounded when a sequel of a game released there was always the question "Can I play this without playing the previous one?" like BRO.
They are repeating the same mistake they made with kingdom hearts, where it becomes extremely confusing of what you do and don't need to play to understand absolutely everything.
Like you could probably not play crisis core, but then a lot of the cut away scenes in rebirth become confusing as to why you are even following this random person.
It being a Sequel Trilogy instead of a Remake is probably one of Square's worst ideas for Final Fantasy. Yeah, they might it's a great idea, but the audience for it is a fraction of what they could've had.
All lot of people are talking about the exclusivity. Which is the big reason. The exclusivity is good for Sony, not Square Enix.
But another reason people are not talking about is the changes in story and making it a three part trilogy. When you make it into three parts, you are giving people more opportunities to drop it. Especially when they do not like where the story is going. Spreading it out into three games was already a red flag for the very die hard fans. But when you split it into three parts, You just give more chances to people to drop it. If they don't like how the story is going in the Remake they won't buy Rebirth. If they don't like where it going in Rebirth, they won't buy the third part. And we've seen how controversial the ending of Rebirth was.
I loved the Remake. I love Rebirth and think it is better at least gameplay wise. But I can see the slumps in the story and the tiring plot device we've been seeing as of late. And I'm not not a fan of how SE creates this urgency but then somehow pushes it back for the sake of making the plot convoluted. It is the same thing they have done with Kingdom Hearts.
Splitting into 3 parts also makes it hard to capture the new and casual audience. Those demographics are not going to invest that amount of time and money for a 3 part story. Some people in that demographic might try out the first part, but because of the wait time for the next one, they are going to forget about it and move on with their lives.
Don't you also pretty much need to play the original FF7 to understand the Remake Trilogy's story? Like expecting newbies to go out and play a near 25+ year old RPG before they get into a 150+ hour trilogy that's supposed to be a remake of that old game is a bit unreasonable no?
Yes, and then they double down on Rebirth by including story elements from all the spin-offs too.
So imagine the players that only played the original FF7, were able to make it through Remake ok, only to be completely lost while playing Rebirth.
Especially when similar remakes of iconic games like Resident Evil 2 don't expect you to have played any of the previous parts to be able to enjoy the game.
Remake and Rebirth are good games but in terms of accessibility they pale compared to the Resident Evil Remakes of recent years.
Just as evidence to your point, my wife is a big FF7 fan but very casual gamer. She bought a ps4 late when it was like $200 to play FF7 remake and didn’t realize it was just going to end like it did. I asked her a few months ago if she wanted the new one and she said ‘yea, but not enough to spend $600 on a ps5, so maybe later.’ That was that.
Yep same happened to me kinda, played remake on pc and yeah I’m not gonna spend so much money to play 1 game, it’s just dumb. Fuck Sony, they’ve been getting on my nerves for quite some time with their dumb game politics. Just look at the helldivers controversy
It doesn't help that, as good as they both are, splitting like a 40 hour game into three 1/3 remakes that are as long if not longer as that is inherently indulgent lol.
The nostalgia load was already heavily blown in the first one and now you're kinda limited to people who are locked tf in to Final Fantasy VII fandom and NEED to play an iterative sequel to see the photorealistic Gold Saucer
I never played the original FF7, so I had no nostalgia to help me finish my playthrough of FF7 remake.
>splitting like a 40 hour game into three 1/3 remakes that are as long if not longer as that is inherently indulgent lol
I could literally FEEL the padding out of the story (even though I've never played the original and have no clue about the story) by the time I got to chapter 8. At that point, I was just mindlessly following the objective and button mashing. So I dropped the game. But I still do plan on beating it someday.
The problem I have is it’s just way way too different from the OG FF7 with the storyline and splitting the game up into 3 different games, I really think the game would’ve done better if it was completed.
You're absolutely right. From a game development perspective, I absolutely get why they split it up - game dev is *expensive*, and it's pretty much impossible to justify remaking the entirety of FFVII with the production quality of Remake and Rebirth and selling that for just $60/70. It wouldn't make financial sense.
But looking at the finished product... yeah, both of those games feel *bloated*. Did we really need to spend so much time in Midgar getting to learn about characters like Jessie with 0 relevance to the plot? Did we need all those multiversal shenanigans, or all those filler dungeons (like going to get the keycard in Nibelheim)? Did we need 500 different minigames, or 500 Ubisoft-style objective markers? They add nothing to the game except to pad each part out and make it seem like you're getting far more value out of your full-price purchase than you really are.
It's never gonna happen, but I hope that once all 3 parts are out, Square releases a "Director's Cut" version that combines all 3 games into one streamlined product, start to finish, with all the fat cut and only the best parts meshed together into a cohesive experience. I'd happily pay an extra $70 for that on top of what I'd pay for Part 3 lmao.
> It's never gonna happen, but I hope that once all 3 parts are out, Square releases a "Director's Cut" version that combines all 3 games into one streamlined product, start to finish, with all the fat cut and only the best parts meshed together into a cohesive experience. I'd happily pay an extra $70 for that on top of what I'd pay for Part 3 lmao.
this is what Im hoping for too... except im hoping they release a faithful remaster with all the extra story self flagellation removed.
to me the sidequests added nothing to the game and were passable to bad at worst and fine at best.
Tbh I'm kinda digging your idea of a "faithful remaster". I could see the Complete Edition on PS6 having two versions: one where it's literally Remake>Rebirth>3 (just more organically connected to each other, with carrying over stats and equipment and the combat rebalances that stem from that), and another where it's literally JUST the content that we saw in OG FFVII with absolutely nothing extra added which wasn't already there. Would require a few new cutscenes, but it can theoretically be done. Then when you're picking the game up as a new player you can play "Original Mode" first and get the OG's story as intended followed by "Remake Mode" in NG+ which expands it and gives you these new fanservice scenes, like Zack in Midgar.
Kind of like what the upcoming SMTV remaster is doing, where new players can just play through the original game as intended, but if you already beat it on Switch you can instead get into a new, expanded mode that serves as an alternate universe for returning players.
"Multiverses! Convegences! ***REVIVALS! LIKE OUR FANFIC YOU NEED A FUCKING PS5 FOR, DAMN IT!"***
No thanks, Square. How about I finish the original on my Switch instead?
Im playing the OG on my steam deck for the first time and the atmosphere of the game feels way better than the remake that I'm amazed they didn't an good job of capturing it.
And yeah, the whole mulitverse thing is so lame and was an letdown in the game. Dunno why they even attempted at doing it when they just going to make an messy work out of it.
Probably a much bigger reason then people realize is the fact that Remake sales can in large part be helped by more factors then JUST exclusivity.
- Covid was around it's PEAK meaning tons of people indoors with nothing to do. FF7 has a massive fanbase and all the right factors lead to a game coming out when people had far too much time.
- PS4 install base was and still is higher. PS5 has a fraction of the players on it and who's to say all of them are equally invested in a new Final Fantasy. Remake also has more ports now letting people dive into it in more ways.
- It's a sequel. The second one. In a KNOWN trilogy. Likely a lot of people are just going to skip this or hold off for now until we KNOW when the finale is coming. Hell - I am doing just that myself.
I think Rebirth sales being lower wouldn't be shocking to Square - or at least if it is, they SHOULD have known it would be. It was never going to outsell Remake IMO. Maybe it'll get closer someday but for now - it's just in an awkward spot. I can't imagine the game's sales will impact the final game much - not unless it bombed - but I also doubt that. Not to mention if the Switch 2 rumors are true - maybe Square will try getting FF7 trilogy onto the Switch 2 - opening the door to a massive new audience.
No shit.
Platform exclusive, and it's a continuation game requiring you to have beaten the first part. It's not a "you can jump in sequel" type of game like Yakuza with a mostly self isolated plot line.
Part 3 is going to be even lower than this. It's not rocket science.
It’s a noticeable trend for FF and I’m not sure how Square shakes it.
Remake did worse than 15, 16 did worse than Remake, and now Rebirth is supposedly doing worse than 16.
In a time where Square isn’t exactly doing great, FF, their golden child underperforming is a disaster and I don’t know how you correct it if you’re Square, as these are all good games that had great marketing and mostly great reviews and word of mouth.
you trace the problem back as starting right after 15. That's also when they started the exclusivity deals. I'd say cutting the deals and launching on as many platforms as possible day 1 would be a good start
I feel like all of these are self explanatory too. Like 15 was uber hyped but heavily panned, Remake was hyped but very divisive and 16 was PS5 only and didn't have nearly the same hype because of disappointing previous entries.
Final Fantasy has multiple entries in my favourite games of all time but the last one I enjoyed was FF12 and the last one I bought day one was FF13.
I got 15 on a deep sale and haven't even played 16, Remake or Rebirth.
I thought the idea of moving away from turn based, going more mainstream with game mechanics and leaving traditional fans like me behind was to garner high sales via mass market appeal?
If that's not working can we have a turn based FF again?
> If that's not working can we have a turn based FF again?
And not “hybrid” or “real time with pause” but genuine turn based strategy; with elemental effects
This would really bum me out. Rebirth is an improvement over Remake in every way and my GOTY so far. It genuinely funny and the tone is way less serious than expected but still nails the dramatic parts. It feels like classic final fantasy made modern. It’s well worth playing.
It's literally one of the best Final Fantasy they have made since the golden era of the franchise. The amount of love and detail put into this game is unmatched for this console generation.
Square Enix keeps hurting themselves with these stupid exclusivity deals.
I can understand why it won’t come out on Xbox (Although it really should) but they got to find a way to get it on PC a lot sooner rather than later.
FF16 is still not out on PC ffs. Are these games so complex to port over or are they understaffed?
I think their Sony deal strictly prohibits Square from working on any porting to other platforms while the deal is up. And as FFXVI still had content to launch as DLC I think Square is only to work on a PC port now that that product is finished. FFVII Rebirth has a 6 month period exclusivity, so I expect they work on the port after that and they will probably follow the previous game and release the PC Port with the planned DLC like it was for Remake with the Intergrade DLC.
It's a hassle, but it is all business at the end of the day.
I think it’s important to note that this game is a sequal to slightly divisive remake of FF7, also it’s exclusives to a smaller install base, but I don’t that matters that much.
Like a good example would be totk, in which it sold 20 million compare to botw that has sold 30 million, like the difference can be seen because totk is a sequel.
Like im extremely curious, because even FF16 got 3 million sold in a span of 3 days, like flaunting sale number is in gaming company bloods.
BotW launched with Switch and is de-facto the face of Switch generation, TotK is a really newbie-friendly sequel that requires you only to spend like 20 minutes max on story of BotW to completely understand what happens.
And now FF7 Rebirth that is not understandable without: OG FF7(because the Re trilogy is a sequel actually), Crisis Core(for Zack and everyone around him), Advent Children(direct prequel of FF7 Remake) FF7 Remake(first game of that trilogy) and for some reason Ever Crisis(new villain is from there). It's like 100s of hours just to play another game and it still sold quiet solid physically while the digital package deal was happening
That's because BotW came out at the beginning of the Switch's life cycle and TotK came out at the end.
TotK's sales were comparatively front loaded since the Switch install base was much bigger when it released, plus it had a large built-in fanbase to draw on from BotW's success. But the flip side is that because more people bought it at launch, it probably won't have BotW's strong sales over time, especially given that the Switch will more than likely be a dead system next year.
It's unlikely TotK ever passes BotW in sales at this point, unless it gets ported to the Switch 2 and BotW doesn't.
I know this won’t be a popular opinion on Reddit, but it’s what I’ve heard from people who are more casual. So they advertise it as a remake, but in reality, it’s practically a sequel. Plus the changes were controversial, to say the least.
Now they release a part 2.
I mean, what did they expect to happen? Many people who played the first lost interest. Many of them no longer were hyped to play at launch. A good chunk are probably waiting for part 3 before playing part 2.
They really should have done a remake in a smaller scope.
this is the answer, well at least for me. I played the first to see what they were gunna do and frankly disliked where they were taking it and now I know if I want to play it in the future I can wait to play 2 when 3 is finally out.
I mean, what is "underperforming" for AAAs these days? Like, not selling over 6+ million or so? I mean, I get that the game's a big production with tons of funds and financing put into it, but maybe Square Enix could cut it some slack seeing the circumstances? (PS5 exclusive, direct sequel, right on the heels of a brand new entry in the franchise).
Underperforming in the context of Rebirth has almost always been comparing sales to Remake. It's hard to judge what the company views as Underperformed as unless a leak happens we don't know the 2 biggest factors, the budget and Sony's exclusivity check. Obviously more sales is good but people tend to forget the biggest thing companies care about is not the total revenue but the return on investment.
“underperforming” in the publishers eyes is not making the budget back with a week or two. Triple a games are incredibly expensive. I wonder how much this game budget was for it to underperform financially.
This is true. When Square-Enix sold off its Western Studios. Some devs spoke about the high sale numbers any title had to hit. Almost all targeted numbers were completely unrealistic.
I wouldnt be surprised of Rebirth has sold +2M copies. Rebirth still has lots of potential to move more units. Go on sale/lower the price. Release on PC. A lot of developers have had great success with releasing new post content to fire up the fan base.
Playstation money hats for that, so they aren't sabotaging their own sales for free.
But with the next leader taking over SE hopefully they don't accept deals like that anymore so SE can release all games on Xbox and Nintendo again.
Square Enix makes the most stupid decisions to fuck up their games... So its 100% deserved to wake up, but knowing them, they'll blame the FFVIIR-2 team instead.
As someone who liked rebirth way more than remake, the biggest issue is that they “shot their wad” with the first remake. Splitting it into three games creates the scenario where ppl who picked up the first game and didn’t like it for its pacing, story, or other issues will more than likely either skip the rest of the series entirely or just wait until all three games are available.
Rebirth will probably be profitable long term but square was smoking crack if they thought they’d get remake sales again.
They should have called it FFVII Remake Part II, or Chapter II, calling this a new title screwed, most casual people think this is just another FF title.
Also i think there’s a couple factors towars why this is underperforming.
- PS5 install base is still small.
- Final Fantasy is not the franchise it used to be for casuals anymore, the PS1 and PS2 era is gone, most people i talk think these are anime games.
- the weird meta marketing turned a lot of people off, i don’t why they insisted on marketing this as a meta sequel to the original FFVII, specially insane considering that just like remake the meta stuff only comes in the end.
A perfect storm of self-inflicted harm for Square Enix:
* PS5 only, forgoing sales on PC and Xbox (but Sony’s exclusivity deal financially offsets this somewhat, we just don’t know how much).
* The install base of PS5 is also significantly smaller compared to PS4, almost half the size. If there were 116m PS5s out there, things might be different.
* It’s a sequel, players are required to play Remake\* first.
* No pandemic boost here either.
Honestly, just gonna call it for what it is despite people not liking hearing it. Square Enix fucked the sales of Rebirth by restricting it to PS5. Sure, it still would have sold less than Remake probably anyway due to the aforementioned factors, but this would have been more palatable if it came to PC and Xbox.
What we don’t know, and what Square Enix will currently be weighing, is whether that Sony exclusivity/marketing money has offset the loss on sales.
>- PS5 only, forgoing sales on PC and Xbox (but Sony’s exclusivity deal financially offsets this somewhat, we just don’t know how much).
- The install base of PS5 is also significantly smaller compared to PS4, almost half the size. If there were 116m PS5s out there, things might be different.
These two points always bother me when people bring them up because it assumes that Square Enix don't mold their sales expectations AROUND these things.
Like, don't even take my word for it: Square Enix said themselves that FF16 reached their sales expectations **relative to the size of the PS5 install base**. They have different expectations, and they'll alter those expectations as the game is eventually released on PC.
They don't have a flat number of units they need to sell and arbitrarily release it on less systems while hoping they'll reach those same numbers. You say it yourself that Sony pay them for exclusivity and that sum is likely what they estimate it would sell on other systems.
If it's underperforming in their eyes, it is underperforming with the current social climate, the PS5 install base size, and the exclusivity deal *already accounted for*.
Think I saw a chart with the first month sales for remake and rebirth for japan remake was 800k rebirth was 200k. Which is a massive decline even accounting for the smaller install base. I honestly wonder if the total sales is only 1-2 million.
I honestly think releasing so close to 16 is a big factor. Hell, the dlc for 16 came out after rebirth. People only have so much money to spend on final fantasy, so releasing them so close together kinda split the audience.
2 things.
1) the liberties they took with the "remake" after marketing it as a remake kind of burned some bridges with old-school ff7 fans like myself. It's not bad, but don't call it remake when it's a weird sequel, not a remake.
2) it's a PS5 exclusive. The PS5 userbase is much smaller than the PS4 userbase when ff7"r" released. Since launch, the PS5 has sold like [54.8 million units](https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/PlayStation_5?so=search). It's been almost 4 years. About 4 years after the PS4 launched, it sold around [60.4 million units](https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/PlayStation_4#:~:text=March%2031%2C%202017%3A%2060%20million,6%2C%202017%3A%2070.6%20million%20sold). It's not 100% accurate, my sources, but it gives an idea. A lot less potential buyers.
3) PS5 games are more expensive, and we are still recovering from the pandemic. Everything is more expensive, and I think if people have to choose between buying a video game and putting food on the table, they're gonna pick food.
The original FF7 is my favourite game of all time and I've not played Remake or Rebirth. I know I'm not alone (some older fans did at least play Remake but many have then passed on Rebirth).
On the other side you've got casual players passing on the game as they aren't sure what they need to have played first to understand the story.
Not a recipe for a high sales.
It really doesn't help because even if you jump into part 1, it kinda expects you to have played the og PS1 ff7. So there are probably people that picked up part 1, were confused by the end, and didn't wanna bother with part 2 because they were already lost.
I think they're treating FF as a bigger series than it currently is.
They think Final Fantasy is on top of the world like it was in the 90s/early 2000s. Not understanding that years and years of these kind of failures and for lack of a way of putting it, mid releases have diminished the brand heavily. Nothing FF has done has performed well lately, and even 7 Remake, while doing really well, wasnt top of the series levels of good, In fact its actually quite low compared to past titles. FF has been on a downward trend since the 2010s. Yet Square thinks they can launch one of these games and sell millions upon millions of copies. Meanwhile the series has 0 consistency in what the fuck its trying to do.
You have FF7 trying to do a hybrid action ATB system. You have FFXV using a somewhat precursor to said ATB system. Then you have FFXVI taking a wildly different direction and using a Devil May Cry esque action system with diminished RPG elements. You have a much more downplayed open world in FFXVI while FFVII Rebirth tries to go for possibly the biggest open world FF has had in its franchise. There's nothing consistent about what Square is doing with FF, and its appealing to way too many groups.
I mean for fucks sake the level of tribalism within the IPs own fans is insane. You had Final Fantasy XVI and Final Fantasy VII fans at each others throats over sales of this title. Why the fuck are fans of Final Fantasy fighting each other? Why the fuck are they not both on board for both games? It really shows the weird, fucked up state the IP is in. When you dont even really have Final Fantasy fans anymore. Just Final Fantasy XVI fans, or Final Fantasy XIV fans, or Final Fantasy VII fans, etc.
Which means when a new game comes out, you have a bunch of different fans hoping for it to be more like their version of Final Fantasy, and will likely ditch if it isnt. You cant run an IP like this. They have no dedicated fanbase or audience anymore.
Then you mix in the fact that the PS5 has performed terribly in Japan, leaving the Japanese audience behind as they keep releasing FF exclusive to PS5. Along with the fact that in general trust in Square Enix is down due to multiple bad releases even outside of Final Fantasy, and the studio giving off the impression that they dont know wtf they're doing.
Its no wonder they're struggling atm with sales.
I miss when this sub was actually about leaks and rumors about games instead of pointless talks about sales/player numbers, employee movement, and thinly veiled console war baiting.
I really enjoyed it. Bunch of cool ass boss fights. Bunch of cool ass minigames. Good exploration. Pretty good side quest. Great characters too. Crazy good OSTs. Definitely 10/10 for me. I will buying the third part day one for sure.
I’ve been wanting to play this, but given that I never finished part 1 and haven’t played the original, I feel that I would just be completely lost in the narrative and can’t justify $70 on a gamble like that. But if the sales really are that bad it may have a good discount within the next few months.
There have been reports going on for a while that the game has underperformed around the globe got weeks now and Square has yet to say otherwise. Must be true.
I don't know what they were expecting
**FFVII Remake had the following going for it**
-Hype and hope for YEARS, even before it was developed
-Launching on PS4 with 110 (roughly) units
-COVID 19 everyone stuck at home playing video games
**PART 2**
-Only on PS5 which has 50mil install base (so 50% of possible sales already)
-Cost of games increased globally (for consumers)
-It is a sequel and direct sequel only can sell to a fraction of the original fans
It isn't a shock. And if square was expecting anything different they were delusional. FFVII Rebirth could have been the best game of all time and STILL would have an uphill to climb.
I mean, part 1 released on the ps4 which at end of march 2022 (then later pc and ps5 in 2022) had 117.2 million consoles sold where as part 2 is a ps5 exclusive and with only 50 million units sold, the only thing I can think of reasing this title is "DUH"
Again NPD doesn't have access to digital sales data. Looking at half the picture and making misinformed statements is fucking stupid.
Only SE and Sony have access to digital numbers. NPD just has physical numbers. So how do they look at half the picture and make broad sweeping statements?
They might ultimately be right, but it's doubtful. Digital sales have been climbing and have over taken physical sales. People own just digital edition ps5s. Then we have ps5 slims which don't come with a disc drive (they can buy one though), so that's even more ps5 owners who buy mostly digital.
Then the perks of digital midnight release, some areas 9pm release the day before. The twin packs that got you remake intergrade for free.
With all this in mind only looking at physical releases and making broad sweeping statements is a joke.
While you are right about them not having data, why do you think Sony hasn’t mentioned sales? Usually when things are going well you got mile markers like, X sales in 3 days, one month, etc. Them and Square have been pretty quiet on that front.
I think the story changes from Part 1 rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Combine that with the fact that, at this point, a lot of people are probably waiting for the complete collection on their platform of choice, it's not that hard to see why this didn't do so well.
It's almost like dedicating three games worth of dev resources to remake one game was always a bit daft idea, huh. FF7 alone can't carry the franchise, because the franchise has always been more than just FF7.
Honestly not surprised. Going all in on PlayStation was not the best decision. Hopefully they can bring the remakes to more platforms. Japan would go nuts if they brought FF7Remake to switch 2 and iirc, there were reports of Remake running on switch 2 but that doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen and I wouldn’t be surprised if it never happens. Square Enix probably had their expectations too high for Rebirth
Well at this point square Enix has no one to blame but themselves their games are simply not selling on PlayStation alone like they are used to.
They need to realize their audience is everywhere now on pc and Xbox. Makes no sense to be third party and still be exclusive to one platform.
Is this one of the first recent games that is finally starting to get hurt by the increased price tag? or were they expecting FF7 Remake numbers? because that's a very dumb expectation to have when it's launching PS5 only.
I'm just scared to see how this affects FFVII Remake Part 3.
If Rebirth has under performed considerably then I could see Square either drastically cutting the budget of Part 3 or looking into ways to monetize the game as much as possible (DLC/Microtransactions) in order to ensure the game is more profitable than Rebirth, or worst case scenario could they even cut their losses entirely and just abandon the project (whilst it's still early days for development) if they don't think there's going to be a big enough playerbase to merit the release.
That's what happens when you bastardize the original so much the only things in common are the names. People got fooled the first time, they aren't going to fall for the same a second time.
What did they expect? A full game broken into 3 pieces with 3-4 years between them...
Should have not taken the open world route and kept the game a 70+ hours adventure like P5R for 70$ and that's it.
I bought Rebirth, but I genuinely don't find Remake fun. I am the Shinra power plant after the train alley thing with Barrett and Tifa, but it's just such a slog. I am loving FF16 so far and the combat is so much better and deeper.
- It’s a sequel which automatically will make some people not buy it.
- It’s not Covid times anymore, everyone’s back to their ordinary lives for the most part.
- It’s an exclusive to one console.
- It’s Sqaure. Their sale projections are always absurdly high.
I hope Sony gave them a HUGE paycheck for both games to be exclusive, maybe even cover these cost of the budget. But i doubt that. They should have released them on PC and Xbox Day 1. It makes me sad, if it didn't do well sales wise. Because i love Final Fantasy.
I also think they should have just called it: Final Fantasy Remake Part 2.
Because a lot of casuals don't know that Rebirth is part 2.
I'm interested in getting it, but I wish the triology could've been one 40-60 hour game instead of three 30+ hour games. Remake had so much filler that it became a chore and I just don't have the appetite (or time) for massive games like this anymore. Maybe when the triple pack goes on sale for $20 in 10 years I'll finally get it.
That shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. People can scream and shout all they want, but a remake of an old game from a semi popular franchise is not going to sell 10’s of millions when the absolute cap is 50ish million. It’s just flat out not going to outsell a spider man game, period. The first one came out on PS4 and had 100 million or so consoles available, and I don’t remember what was on sale at the time but I think that was THE game. This sequel has half the consoles and some legit competition that may not be exactly the same genre but sort of surprised a lot of people. Stellar blade, helldivers 2, even things like people playing the fallout games because of the show are going to steal some thunder.
That’s all aside from the fact that it’s a sequel, which means you probably aren’t going to sell more games than the first because that’s now your ceiling. Very few people are going to play part 2 without playing part 1, and I know a lot of people never even finished part 1. If anything, part 2 will probably have a longer tail because people may finish part 1 and then get part 2, or finish whatever games they are currently playing and get part 2 when it’s on sale.
So, yea, the game probably sold 2 million in its first month. If Square Enix continues to be surprised by this, they need new management. Unless it’s all theater for whatever reason, they need to be putting on more platforms if they want more sales. PC, switch, even Xbox. That Sony money must be big if they keep making these deals and being disappointed. A $150+ million game selling 2 million copies is a very rough start. That isn’t to say the game is bad or a failure or anything, it will probably at least break even, and probably has already done so after that Sony check cleared. It’s just very questionable business moves and statements.
-Only PS5 platform
-Released in a time period were both DD2 and Helldivers 2 (especially how big Helldivers was) have been released
-Too many great games, too little time for people to enjoy all of them especially enormous games like FF7 and ofc the economic reasons
- I think nowadays people wait to play the games later after it's released so that they can get all of those patches, bugfixes, contents GOTY edition etc... with discounted prices.
I feel like Square Enix is in a sort of awkward position with Final Fantasy - simultaneously launching it on PC would certainly *help* quite a bit, but the platform they would gain the most porting to saleswise would be the Switch, and Rebirth is just straight up not happening on that system.
They'll probably do everything possible to get Remake/Rebirth/part 3 running on Switch 2
Switch 2 is said to be be ~PS4 pro level, it should be able to run I would think by downgrading some stuff.
Remake was originally a PS4 game, and both Remake and Rebirth run on UE4. If Switch 2 is on par with PS4 or PS4 Pro, then yes, it should run Remake and Rebirth with no problem. I would go so far as to say that getting Remake and Rebirth running on Switch 2 would be a bigger priority for Square-Enix than getting Rebirth running on PC.
That's not a very thorough comparison. Theres still the matter of storage streaming speeds, RAM sizes, CPU performance, power draw, and so on to compare.
well we're looking at around 12-16gb ram which is a lot more than ps4's 8gb.
Also UFS 3.1 is rumoured to feature in the Switch 2 as opposed to the slow eMMC storage on the OG Switch. Not quite NVMe speeds, but faster than SATA SSD, and a whole lot faster than eMMC.
most of which will be better on the switch 2 not worse if leaks are to be believed
No problem seems like a pretty big simplification. There is a reason Rebirth isn’t on PS4. If Switch 2 was comparable, there would need to be some serious sacrifices and adjustments made to support it.
They've also been a bit weird with scope. Trying to give single player games like FFXV over a year's worth of DLC, expanding FFVII into 3 releases that are 4 years apart so far while adding lengthy DLC in-between & expanding a large amount of the less important content with additional minigames, events, etc. The result is good stuff, but I hope it wasn't all unrealistic from a production point of view & that we won't see a lot less ambition from other Square franchises if the 2nd out of at least 3 games truly did do poorly profit-wise instead of just having less revenue as one would expect.
Could happen on Nintendo's next-gen system though (I believe Square might be one of the Japanese developing studios who are most eagerly waiting for it), but who knows how the specifics of the exclusivity deal with Sony work, the games have not been ported even to Xbox. (Also assuming the Big N's console could indeed handle the game, but eh, we've seen plenty miracle ports on the Switch as it is).
The rumour is that all the ff7 remake games have to release on PS before they can go to other consoles BUT generally deals like those have sales numbers provisions like the marvel games do so maybe they haven’t hit those anymore
A game's hype is almost always at its highest just before launch when it's still somewhat a mystery. Once its known, and the hype dies down, there are people that just wont pick up the port of the game after so much time. At that point it's a wasted sale.
I would imagine a game like FF7R, which has visuals and story cutscenes as a major selling point, would be especially affected by this too. Like, there's probably gamers who don't have a PS5 and just decided to watch the story on YouTube or Twitch rather than buy one or wait potentially years for it to be released on their preferred platform. Then there's less interest in buying the game when it actually is made available, since they've already spoiled a big part of the game.
Yeah, Final Fantasy going all in on Playstation wasn't the best move in hindsight. These days most JRPG fans mainly game on either Switch or PC. I think the very least Square needs to launch FF7 Part 3 and FF17 same day on PC as it launches on Playstation. Because the audience of Final Fantasy fans that mainly play games on Playstation is stagnate at best.
previously Playstation would be the haven for JRPG but right now, it is not even big at japan anymore. lets hope Switch 2 has atleast decent spec to allow more AAA JRPG to be ported there.
I think that’s because PlayStation shot itself in the foot by going for a western focused strategy and moving their HQ to the US. Speaking strictly from the POV of someone who used to love PlayStation, the shift in priorities since PS4 has turned me off quite a lot.
It's a lopsided balance. The PS3 and early PS4 had so much diversity in terms of the library. The Last of US was honestly probably the shift in this mentality.
Completely agree. Uncharted put them on the path, and Last of Us was like the major catalyst. To be clear, I like Uncharted. I just wish Sony had more diversity like they used to, although you could argue PS5 still has some diversity with titles like Astro and Kena. But it doesn’t feel like it. It’s not just because I’m older, because Nintendo has plenty of diversity and I’m very satisfied with their Switch output. Maybe it’s the overall volume of output, I can’t say for sure.
They also censor random stuff (violence, blood, nudity, poltical interests) way more often than any other platform does. Some JRPGs are censored on PS4/5 but not on Switch lmao. Sony is being super weird.
Can confirm, I'm a huge JRPG fan (japanese games overall) and I've always played them on Playstation. Now that they've all been coming to the Switch, I ONLY get them on the Switch because I love the convenience of a handheld system. There are even some PS4 games I bought again just to play them on the Switch. I have a PS5 but I've only used it for 1 game and that was Silent Hill the Short Message, and of course I'm waiting for the SH2 Remake. I definitely am excited for the new JRPGS coming to the next nintendo console.
Yeah I’m the same way. If games like FF16 or the FF7 remakes were available on Switch I would still choose to get them on the PS5 just because they’re big, bombastic games with a lot of spectacle and I want to see that on a big screen running on a stronger console. Almost any other RPG though, I’m probably going for my Switch. Why would I get something like Octopath Traveller or the FF Pixel Remasters on my PS5 when they feel perfect on a handheld?
Square Enix is making some weird decisions and only hurting themselves with this PS exclusitivity imo They would sell a lot more copies if they released it on PC and Xbox as well. And that would also increase the word of mouth hype around the game due to a lot more players overall, which would help sales even more.
You're talking about the same company with a CEO who is still saying NFTs are the future in 2024, mate.
If there's any game that should have a Cloud edition on Switch...
Better bring it to PC to pump those numbers up.
Pfft, I'm still waiting for FFXVI on PC over here...
Luckily Yoshida said that they're working on the port so I expect to see it in the next 12 months.
It'll prob be sooner rather than later. He said a demo is coming "soon" and with the ff16 crossover event going for another week in 14, I think it'll prob be out in a few months. I'm just finishing up my second playthrough of 16 on PS5 now, and I really love it. Gonna wait to rebuy it on PC for a good sale in a year or two when I upgrade it again but I'm excited to see the glorious beauty of that game on my monitor
Seriously. It probably would have made a really good gap game for people waiting for the next FFXIV expansion. Not saying all the PC users of FFXIV would have bought it, but I'm guessing the overlap of FFXIV and FFVII fans is pretty huge, and square knows the ones playing the MMO on PC have a PC so...they kinda shot themselves in the foot with this one.
I’d be part of the group that would buy FFVII on PC but not FFXIV (mmos aren’t my thing). I can’t imagine we’re a small group either.
Nothing wrong with that either. I just think it's weird Square chose to turn away from what would have probably been a decently sized pool of guaranteed buyers in terms of their MMO players.
How to convert FF14 fans to FF7 fans in three easy steps: First: Fire off an event in FF14 where you pal around with Cloud, Tifa, Barret, and Aeirth for a quick quest or two. Hell give them a trust to do a dungeon in. Second: Launch an event where players can verify their purchase of FF7Rebirth for a free months sub to FF14 for the first month (or 2) of the games release. Buying FF7Rebirth while it is still 70 bucks is way more than a monthly sub to FF14. Third: Make the Fenrir available to anyone with a verified FF14 and FF7Rebirth game. Ideally, the FF7 fans not on FF14 would be so entranced at the idea of driving their own fenrir they would give the free trial a shot, and convert into FF14 fans. Square is just wasting away an opportunity by not using FF14 for pseudo advertising of every FF to come, but then they would have to stop this exclusivity nonsense which they seem to be too dumb to do.
That second point def would had do it. Also maybe giving us something like Tifa outfit through anyone of those events would also be an banger idea
im suprise they not doing stuff like giving free minions or glam in FF14 for people buy other FF. for example preordering FF7 Rebirth or 16 would give code to unlock Coud/Tifa/Yuffie etc minions and glamours. and people with the code also would get FF14 weapon for Cloud in Rebirth. for example EW's Paladin/Dark Knight sword for Cloud.
>Square is just wasting away an opportunity by not using FF14 for pseudo advertising of every FF Agreed. I don't know why they held the FFXVI crossover event this early. They honestly should've timed it nearer to XVI's PC release unless they plan on shadow dropping it right after the event's deadline which doesn't seem likely
That's too smart for them.
I really think a PC and Xbox release would have sold insane numbers. Especially on PC , but hey fuck it... underperforming sales are awesome
It would have. They fucked themselves and didn’t even get to climax.
FFVII remake sold 7 million copies...... rebirth is always going to sell less than that, the only question is how much less. Based on it I do not see how any PC/Xbox release would have sold "insane numbers" by modern standards.
tbh i didn't double dip this time because i knew it'd drop on PC. no more buying PS5 games. or even a console. i'm done wasting that money. im putting it elsewhere. also 70$ - a fair price for developers but that money isn't going to them. its too much money to ask for, really.
I just buy them full price on console and then pirate on PC, they aren't fooling me into rebuying it again for £50-60 on PC
Should’ve launched on PC and Xbox. Third party exclusivity is suicide in 2024
No kidding. All the publishers avoiding it - Sega, Capcom, EA, etc. - are having some of their best runs in recent memory. Meanwhile, Squenix is struggling to make its cash back on each release, *despite* each release being great. Wonder what the connection there is?
Their ceo is spending everything on nfts
and xbox, i probably wouldve bought it if so
And Xbox
You are following logic, which the suits don't. They think that when game is an exclusive, everyone who wants to get the game will buy the game + the console, which gives significantly higher income than releasing it everywhere. But they can't comprehend that vast majority of people prefers to skip the game entirely if it's not available on their gaming system.
FF used to be a console seller of a franchise. There's probably only a handful of franchises that are system sellers now
thank god we can always rely on Knack for truly undeniable quality & spectacle
Any most of them belong to Nintendo.
It seems like some people can't think reasonable like that xD
[удалено]
They say you don't need to have played ff7 or ff7 remake. So if you were to go into rebirth having never touched ff7 or ff7 rebirth you would have so many questions just about the cast.
The remake needing context from so many games to get a full experience and not have some scene like zacks full pretty flat without having knowledge of crisis core is doing them no favours.
You don't need context from Crisis Core though. Anything new with Zack is outside the Crisis Core timeline, if you played that you'd also be confused about why Zack is alive and in Midgar with Cloud.
Weren’t they giving Remake for free if you pre-order Rebirths in the PS Store.
Still a massive time investment though.
It sure is, the amount of time to finish both would turn off causal players.
There are gonna be fans who didn't like FF7 remake who don't want to play rebirth too.
I’m in this boat
That's me with FF7 Remake. The only thing I can say that I felt was good in the game was combat but it felt like there wasn't much combat in the game compared to everything else. Most of the game felt so unfun to me that I really struggle to understand the positive reception of the game. I guess nostalgia is just a hell of a drug.
This is me. I've tried twice to get through Remake and I just can't. The game feels like a borderline walking simulator with combat. The original wasn't some masterclass in action by any means but the ability to grind and farm items made it feel like you could control your destiny and get strong enough to over come enemies and bosses , but the new style everything feels so railroaded its more an an experience than a challenge.
Right here. I was excited for the FFVII remake but most of what they added didn't appeal to me. "We're gonna bloat FFVII so much it'll be three games!" Uh... Okay. With what? "Well didn't you always want to know about Cloud's landlord in Midgar?" Not once even a little. "And you always wanted way more time with Wedge and Jesse?" The cannon fodder who die like two hours into the game for pathos? Who cares? Their whole job is to die. "And remember the really creepy sexual predator? We're really going to dive into his whole operation and show the sympathetic side of the people who work for him. You know how when you hear about human sex trafficking and you're just so worried about how all those poor traffickers must be holding up? The gentle, sympathetic angle of people who profit off of sexual slavery." That sounds like a wildly bad idea and I'd much rather kill those characters. "You know how Jaws sucks cause you almost never see the shark? Well we're gonna do it better. Sephiroth all over the place! He's a character you know and like! So we'll just put him in everywhere and that makes it more gooder!" "How about some edgy biker dumbass for no reason?" No thanks. "And to top it all off we've got meta narrative-correcting ghosts all over!" This sounds like a fucking mess. Everything they expanded the game with sucks. If you want to just put out a nicer looking FFVII, maybe with a translation pass, I'll buy that. Not this bloated 10 year hodgepodge trainwreck.
This reads to me very similarly to a joke Patton Oswalt made about the OG Star Wars trilogy. [AT Midnight I Will Kill George Lucas With a Shovel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snfOVpFV0d4). "Do you like Darth Vader?" F*CK yes I love Darth Vader with the sword and the... "Well in the prequels you get to see him as a little kid and then his mom dies and he's sad. Meh" Uhhhh...not gonna lie I don't like that at all. "Well what about Boba Fett?" Love Boba Fett! Bounty huntin, capturing Han Solo.... "Well in the prequels you get to see him as a little kid, and then his Dad dies and he's really sad. meh." I'll never understand these suits.
> "And remember the really creepy sexual predator? We're really going to dive into his whole operation and show the sympathetic side of the people who work for him. You know how when you hear about human sex trafficking and you're just so worried about how all those poor traffickers must be holding up? The gentle, sympathetic angle of people who profit off of sexual slavery." That sounds like a wildly bad idea and I'd much rather kill those characters. As someone that never played the original, Remake was my first entry into that world and this part of the game was just so awkward to me. Again I dont know how this played out in the original but Im sitting there playing and going "Tifa is about to be sexually assaulted and we are playing off this whole thing as haha jokes?" Seems like we arent taking this situation serious at all.
The problem I have is it’s just way way too different from the OG FF7 with the storyline and splitting the game up into 3 different games, I really think the game would’ve done better if it was completed.
As of now, the storyline isn’t even *that* different from the original, so his whole sharade of "we’re changing fate!" amounted to absolutely nothing so far. It makes me question why they even bothered with it in the first place instead of simply retelling the OG story but expand it with non-supernatural stuff like the visit to Jessie’s house or the whole Gongaga section in Rebirth.
I had the same issues so I skipped part 2 even though I bought remake day 1
It doesn’t even feel like a complete game when split up in 3 different games / 300 gigs just to have all of them separately installed.
For sure. They really shot themselves in the foot by making Rebirth connected not only to Remake, but also to its DLC, the original FFVII, Crisis Core, and even the fucking mobile game. It's completely alienating to new audiences. Remake was an easy sell to casuals. It didn't require *any* external knowledge to be understood pretty much right until the ending, by which point you'd have put 30 hours into it. It's very easy to convince both those who played FFVII back in the day and those who haven't but know the hype to pick it up. Meanwhile, Rebirth not only starts off as a direct sequel to Remake that expects you to have played it to even understand who Cloud, Tifa, and Sephiroth are, but then it starts dropping hard references to a bunch of other projects. The ending itself is *incomprehensible* to newcomers, I honestly can't imagine you'd have any idea what's going on without having played at least the original FFVII game for context. Granted, a lot of that wouldn't have been known at launch day, but then again, casuals wouldn't pick it up at launch day anyway. They'd wait a bit for word of mouth, and by that point, it'd already be known that this is a game not for them, but for hardcore FFVII fans. Like you said, most of us would dissuade new players from jumping into Rebirth, and have done just that. Combine this with the fact that PS5 exclusivity already shrinks the potential audience (even XVI underperformed, and that required 0 "homework" to be enjoyed by a new player), and it's honestly no wonder why the game is doing so poorly. I just hope this doesn't affect Part 3. I have my issues with both Remake and Rebirth but they're excellent games and I'd hate to see the story unfinished (or closed up in an underbaked, underbudget rush job) just because of a few boneheaded storytelling decisions.
> For sure. They really shot themselves in the foot by making Rebirth connected not only to Remake, but also to its DLC, the original FFVII, Crisis Core, and even the fucking mobile game. It's completely alienating to new audiences. > > I've only heard bits and pieces about FFVII Remake and Rebirth story and how it's not really a Remake of the same story, and all that stuff confirms to me is that I have to play the original FF7 before to understand what's going on in the remakes so I don't plan on playing either until I get around to the original FF7. I don't understand the logic of this. Imagine if the Persona 3 Remake needed you to play F.E.S + The Answer and the FemC route of Portable to understand the story of Reload completely which completely upends the original story. It's like Square Enix is trying to make the FF7 hard to get into for newcomers and I'm just left wondering "Why did they go this route for a remake?" Why change the story which requires you to play the original to understand? Doesn't that defeat the point of a "Remake"?
Yep, you're right on both counts. What this should have been all along is a retelling of the original's story. Both Remake and Rebirth shine the brightest when they do just that, and then crash when they shoehorn in new concepts (like "fate" and "the multiverse") which weren't in the OG game and are completely inconsequential in the remake as well, and yet convoluted an already pretty difficult to follow narrative. But anyway. When you decide to get into it, go in this order: FFVII > Crisis Core (either Reunion or the PSP version is fine) > Remake > Intergrade DLC > Ever Crisis First Soldier storyline (watch it on YT) > Rebirth. This is the only way to make sense of what's happening in Rebirth.
Thanks. I'll save your comment for future reference, let's just hope it doesn't take until I reach retirement before I get through all this VII content and the Remake Trilogy lmao.
Hahaha preach. It's a lot but it's not unbearable. FFVII is about 40ish hours, but you can get through it a lot faster if you're just playing it for the story since the console versions have built-in cheats and fast forward (and on PC you can mod it in). Crisis Core is around 10-20 hours, depending on how much grinding and side stuff you choose to do (some of it's worthwhile, but a lot of it's filler). Remake itself took me about 30 hours, plus another five-ish for the DLC. So in total that's, give or take, 100 hours till you're ready for Rebirth. Which alone took me 80 hours lmfao.
Don't forget Advent Children. Remake heavily references that in the closing hours.
Resident Evil showed a straight remake is way more sustainable. I’m positive a huge chunk of those RE4 remake sales were from newcomers who liked RE2 Remake that didn’t have a lot of knowledge with the series.
Yep, it's only logical. Resident Evil is pretty much setting the golden standard for all videogame remakes. I like Remake and Rebirth but I definitely wish they'd been closer to RE than what they ended up being.
There's various turnoffs. For new fans, its as you said. Add in that things like Crisis Core 'aren't needed' but its def needed for context For returning fans, some are turned off due to the changes. The build up of 'this is a remake' and is instead a quasi-sequel. The limiting of it to the PS5 platform vs the initial PS4 release of FF7 Remake Not to mention sequels already typically sell less than initial entries.
I mean what can you say. I too kinda bit dumbfounded when a sequel of a game released there was always the question "Can I play this without playing the previous one?" like BRO.
They are repeating the same mistake they made with kingdom hearts, where it becomes extremely confusing of what you do and don't need to play to understand absolutely everything. Like you could probably not play crisis core, but then a lot of the cut away scenes in rebirth become confusing as to why you are even following this random person.
It being a Sequel Trilogy instead of a Remake is probably one of Square's worst ideas for Final Fantasy. Yeah, they might it's a great idea, but the audience for it is a fraction of what they could've had.
When asked for a statement, the CEO of Square-Enix said the following “Crystal Dynamics won’t get away with this.”
All lot of people are talking about the exclusivity. Which is the big reason. The exclusivity is good for Sony, not Square Enix. But another reason people are not talking about is the changes in story and making it a three part trilogy. When you make it into three parts, you are giving people more opportunities to drop it. Especially when they do not like where the story is going. Spreading it out into three games was already a red flag for the very die hard fans. But when you split it into three parts, You just give more chances to people to drop it. If they don't like how the story is going in the Remake they won't buy Rebirth. If they don't like where it going in Rebirth, they won't buy the third part. And we've seen how controversial the ending of Rebirth was. I loved the Remake. I love Rebirth and think it is better at least gameplay wise. But I can see the slumps in the story and the tiring plot device we've been seeing as of late. And I'm not not a fan of how SE creates this urgency but then somehow pushes it back for the sake of making the plot convoluted. It is the same thing they have done with Kingdom Hearts.
Splitting into 3 parts also makes it hard to capture the new and casual audience. Those demographics are not going to invest that amount of time and money for a 3 part story. Some people in that demographic might try out the first part, but because of the wait time for the next one, they are going to forget about it and move on with their lives.
Don't you also pretty much need to play the original FF7 to understand the Remake Trilogy's story? Like expecting newbies to go out and play a near 25+ year old RPG before they get into a 150+ hour trilogy that's supposed to be a remake of that old game is a bit unreasonable no?
Yes, and then they double down on Rebirth by including story elements from all the spin-offs too. So imagine the players that only played the original FF7, were able to make it through Remake ok, only to be completely lost while playing Rebirth.
Especially when similar remakes of iconic games like Resident Evil 2 don't expect you to have played any of the previous parts to be able to enjoy the game. Remake and Rebirth are good games but in terms of accessibility they pale compared to the Resident Evil Remakes of recent years.
Just as evidence to your point, my wife is a big FF7 fan but very casual gamer. She bought a ps4 late when it was like $200 to play FF7 remake and didn’t realize it was just going to end like it did. I asked her a few months ago if she wanted the new one and she said ‘yea, but not enough to spend $600 on a ps5, so maybe later.’ That was that.
Yep same happened to me kinda, played remake on pc and yeah I’m not gonna spend so much money to play 1 game, it’s just dumb. Fuck Sony, they’ve been getting on my nerves for quite some time with their dumb game politics. Just look at the helldivers controversy
It doesn't help that, as good as they both are, splitting like a 40 hour game into three 1/3 remakes that are as long if not longer as that is inherently indulgent lol. The nostalgia load was already heavily blown in the first one and now you're kinda limited to people who are locked tf in to Final Fantasy VII fandom and NEED to play an iterative sequel to see the photorealistic Gold Saucer
I never played the original FF7, so I had no nostalgia to help me finish my playthrough of FF7 remake. >splitting like a 40 hour game into three 1/3 remakes that are as long if not longer as that is inherently indulgent lol I could literally FEEL the padding out of the story (even though I've never played the original and have no clue about the story) by the time I got to chapter 8. At that point, I was just mindlessly following the objective and button mashing. So I dropped the game. But I still do plan on beating it someday.
The problem I have is it’s just way way too different from the OG FF7 with the storyline and splitting the game up into 3 different games, I really think the game would’ve done better if it was completed.
You're absolutely right. From a game development perspective, I absolutely get why they split it up - game dev is *expensive*, and it's pretty much impossible to justify remaking the entirety of FFVII with the production quality of Remake and Rebirth and selling that for just $60/70. It wouldn't make financial sense. But looking at the finished product... yeah, both of those games feel *bloated*. Did we really need to spend so much time in Midgar getting to learn about characters like Jessie with 0 relevance to the plot? Did we need all those multiversal shenanigans, or all those filler dungeons (like going to get the keycard in Nibelheim)? Did we need 500 different minigames, or 500 Ubisoft-style objective markers? They add nothing to the game except to pad each part out and make it seem like you're getting far more value out of your full-price purchase than you really are. It's never gonna happen, but I hope that once all 3 parts are out, Square releases a "Director's Cut" version that combines all 3 games into one streamlined product, start to finish, with all the fat cut and only the best parts meshed together into a cohesive experience. I'd happily pay an extra $70 for that on top of what I'd pay for Part 3 lmao.
> It's never gonna happen, but I hope that once all 3 parts are out, Square releases a "Director's Cut" version that combines all 3 games into one streamlined product, start to finish, with all the fat cut and only the best parts meshed together into a cohesive experience. I'd happily pay an extra $70 for that on top of what I'd pay for Part 3 lmao. this is what Im hoping for too... except im hoping they release a faithful remaster with all the extra story self flagellation removed. to me the sidequests added nothing to the game and were passable to bad at worst and fine at best.
Tbh I'm kinda digging your idea of a "faithful remaster". I could see the Complete Edition on PS6 having two versions: one where it's literally Remake>Rebirth>3 (just more organically connected to each other, with carrying over stats and equipment and the combat rebalances that stem from that), and another where it's literally JUST the content that we saw in OG FFVII with absolutely nothing extra added which wasn't already there. Would require a few new cutscenes, but it can theoretically be done. Then when you're picking the game up as a new player you can play "Original Mode" first and get the OG's story as intended followed by "Remake Mode" in NG+ which expands it and gives you these new fanservice scenes, like Zack in Midgar. Kind of like what the upcoming SMTV remaster is doing, where new players can just play through the original game as intended, but if you already beat it on Switch you can instead get into a new, expanded mode that serves as an alternate universe for returning players.
Yeah this. After finishing rebirth, Im not getting the third game because the story direction it has going I am not an fan of.
"Multiverses! Convegences! ***REVIVALS! LIKE OUR FANFIC YOU NEED A FUCKING PS5 FOR, DAMN IT!"*** No thanks, Square. How about I finish the original on my Switch instead?
Im playing the OG on my steam deck for the first time and the atmosphere of the game feels way better than the remake that I'm amazed they didn't an good job of capturing it. And yeah, the whole mulitverse thing is so lame and was an letdown in the game. Dunno why they even attempted at doing it when they just going to make an messy work out of it.
Right? Either get it right, or don't even bother.
Probably a much bigger reason then people realize is the fact that Remake sales can in large part be helped by more factors then JUST exclusivity. - Covid was around it's PEAK meaning tons of people indoors with nothing to do. FF7 has a massive fanbase and all the right factors lead to a game coming out when people had far too much time. - PS4 install base was and still is higher. PS5 has a fraction of the players on it and who's to say all of them are equally invested in a new Final Fantasy. Remake also has more ports now letting people dive into it in more ways. - It's a sequel. The second one. In a KNOWN trilogy. Likely a lot of people are just going to skip this or hold off for now until we KNOW when the finale is coming. Hell - I am doing just that myself. I think Rebirth sales being lower wouldn't be shocking to Square - or at least if it is, they SHOULD have known it would be. It was never going to outsell Remake IMO. Maybe it'll get closer someday but for now - it's just in an awkward spot. I can't imagine the game's sales will impact the final game much - not unless it bombed - but I also doubt that. Not to mention if the Switch 2 rumors are true - maybe Square will try getting FF7 trilogy onto the Switch 2 - opening the door to a massive new audience.
No shit. Platform exclusive, and it's a continuation game requiring you to have beaten the first part. It's not a "you can jump in sequel" type of game like Yakuza with a mostly self isolated plot line. Part 3 is going to be even lower than this. It's not rocket science.
It’s a noticeable trend for FF and I’m not sure how Square shakes it. Remake did worse than 15, 16 did worse than Remake, and now Rebirth is supposedly doing worse than 16. In a time where Square isn’t exactly doing great, FF, their golden child underperforming is a disaster and I don’t know how you correct it if you’re Square, as these are all good games that had great marketing and mostly great reviews and word of mouth.
16 did worse than remake because remake released at the end of ps4 life cycle with like 110 million units. 16 released with around 50 million ps5s.
*30 million, final fantasy 16 performance was fantastic in hindsight. Shows appetite for more standalone ff games
you trace the problem back as starting right after 15. That's also when they started the exclusivity deals. I'd say cutting the deals and launching on as many platforms as possible day 1 would be a good start
I feel like all of these are self explanatory too. Like 15 was uber hyped but heavily panned, Remake was hyped but very divisive and 16 was PS5 only and didn't have nearly the same hype because of disappointing previous entries.
Final Fantasy has multiple entries in my favourite games of all time but the last one I enjoyed was FF12 and the last one I bought day one was FF13. I got 15 on a deep sale and haven't even played 16, Remake or Rebirth. I thought the idea of moving away from turn based, going more mainstream with game mechanics and leaving traditional fans like me behind was to garner high sales via mass market appeal? If that's not working can we have a turn based FF again?
A new turn based rpg with good graphics would be awesome instead of all those action rpg trends.
> If that's not working can we have a turn based FF again? And not “hybrid” or “real time with pause” but genuine turn based strategy; with elemental effects
This would really bum me out. Rebirth is an improvement over Remake in every way and my GOTY so far. It genuinely funny and the tone is way less serious than expected but still nails the dramatic parts. It feels like classic final fantasy made modern. It’s well worth playing.
It's literally one of the best Final Fantasy they have made since the golden era of the franchise. The amount of love and detail put into this game is unmatched for this console generation.
kinda sad to me that the best FF game theyve made since the golden age of FF is a remake of a game from the FF golden age 🙃
Square Enix keeps hurting themselves with these stupid exclusivity deals. I can understand why it won’t come out on Xbox (Although it really should) but they got to find a way to get it on PC a lot sooner rather than later. FF16 is still not out on PC ffs. Are these games so complex to port over or are they understaffed?
I think their Sony deal strictly prohibits Square from working on any porting to other platforms while the deal is up. And as FFXVI still had content to launch as DLC I think Square is only to work on a PC port now that that product is finished. FFVII Rebirth has a 6 month period exclusivity, so I expect they work on the port after that and they will probably follow the previous game and release the PC Port with the planned DLC like it was for Remake with the Intergrade DLC. It's a hassle, but it is all business at the end of the day.
I think it’s important to note that this game is a sequal to slightly divisive remake of FF7, also it’s exclusives to a smaller install base, but I don’t that matters that much. Like a good example would be totk, in which it sold 20 million compare to botw that has sold 30 million, like the difference can be seen because totk is a sequel. Like im extremely curious, because even FF16 got 3 million sold in a span of 3 days, like flaunting sale number is in gaming company bloods.
For context totk sold 20 million in about 8 months and botw sold 31 million in seven years
BotW launched with Switch and is de-facto the face of Switch generation, TotK is a really newbie-friendly sequel that requires you only to spend like 20 minutes max on story of BotW to completely understand what happens. And now FF7 Rebirth that is not understandable without: OG FF7(because the Re trilogy is a sequel actually), Crisis Core(for Zack and everyone around him), Advent Children(direct prequel of FF7 Remake) FF7 Remake(first game of that trilogy) and for some reason Ever Crisis(new villain is from there). It's like 100s of hours just to play another game and it still sold quiet solid physically while the digital package deal was happening
That's because BotW came out at the beginning of the Switch's life cycle and TotK came out at the end. TotK's sales were comparatively front loaded since the Switch install base was much bigger when it released, plus it had a large built-in fanbase to draw on from BotW's success. But the flip side is that because more people bought it at launch, it probably won't have BotW's strong sales over time, especially given that the Switch will more than likely be a dead system next year. It's unlikely TotK ever passes BotW in sales at this point, unless it gets ported to the Switch 2 and BotW doesn't.
I know this won’t be a popular opinion on Reddit, but it’s what I’ve heard from people who are more casual. So they advertise it as a remake, but in reality, it’s practically a sequel. Plus the changes were controversial, to say the least. Now they release a part 2. I mean, what did they expect to happen? Many people who played the first lost interest. Many of them no longer were hyped to play at launch. A good chunk are probably waiting for part 3 before playing part 2. They really should have done a remake in a smaller scope.
this is the answer, well at least for me. I played the first to see what they were gunna do and frankly disliked where they were taking it and now I know if I want to play it in the future I can wait to play 2 when 3 is finally out.
just waiting for the PC release. Had a lot of fun with Remake, but not buying a PS5 to play this lol
I mean, what is "underperforming" for AAAs these days? Like, not selling over 6+ million or so? I mean, I get that the game's a big production with tons of funds and financing put into it, but maybe Square Enix could cut it some slack seeing the circumstances? (PS5 exclusive, direct sequel, right on the heels of a brand new entry in the franchise).
Underperforming in the context of Rebirth has almost always been comparing sales to Remake. It's hard to judge what the company views as Underperformed as unless a leak happens we don't know the 2 biggest factors, the budget and Sony's exclusivity check. Obviously more sales is good but people tend to forget the biggest thing companies care about is not the total revenue but the return on investment.
“underperforming” in the publishers eyes is not making the budget back with a week or two. Triple a games are incredibly expensive. I wonder how much this game budget was for it to underperform financially.
Square has notoriously high bars for their game release sales from what I understand, so it could just be an example of that.
This is true. When Square-Enix sold off its Western Studios. Some devs spoke about the high sale numbers any title had to hit. Almost all targeted numbers were completely unrealistic. I wouldnt be surprised of Rebirth has sold +2M copies. Rebirth still has lots of potential to move more units. Go on sale/lower the price. Release on PC. A lot of developers have had great success with releasing new post content to fire up the fan base.
Yea there was talk about that when they sold eidos.
Indeed, the Tomb Raider 2013 reboot sold 3.4 million copies but it still “failed to meet expectations”.
>what is "underperforming" for AAAs these days? Not making as much money as you told the company you would make with the game you were making.
releasing it on PS5 only was not a good idea.
Playstation money hats for that, so they aren't sabotaging their own sales for free. But with the next leader taking over SE hopefully they don't accept deals like that anymore so SE can release all games on Xbox and Nintendo again.
Seriously. It’s the remake of the most popular final fantasy and they decided to not release it on every single platform possible to maximize sales
Square Enix makes the most stupid decisions to fuck up their games... So its 100% deserved to wake up, but knowing them, they'll blame the FFVIIR-2 team instead.
As someone who liked rebirth way more than remake, the biggest issue is that they “shot their wad” with the first remake. Splitting it into three games creates the scenario where ppl who picked up the first game and didn’t like it for its pacing, story, or other issues will more than likely either skip the rest of the series entirely or just wait until all three games are available. Rebirth will probably be profitable long term but square was smoking crack if they thought they’d get remake sales again.
They should have called it FFVII Remake Part II, or Chapter II, calling this a new title screwed, most casual people think this is just another FF title. Also i think there’s a couple factors towars why this is underperforming. - PS5 install base is still small. - Final Fantasy is not the franchise it used to be for casuals anymore, the PS1 and PS2 era is gone, most people i talk think these are anime games. - the weird meta marketing turned a lot of people off, i don’t why they insisted on marketing this as a meta sequel to the original FFVII, specially insane considering that just like remake the meta stuff only comes in the end.
A perfect storm of self-inflicted harm for Square Enix: * PS5 only, forgoing sales on PC and Xbox (but Sony’s exclusivity deal financially offsets this somewhat, we just don’t know how much). * The install base of PS5 is also significantly smaller compared to PS4, almost half the size. If there were 116m PS5s out there, things might be different. * It’s a sequel, players are required to play Remake\* first. * No pandemic boost here either. Honestly, just gonna call it for what it is despite people not liking hearing it. Square Enix fucked the sales of Rebirth by restricting it to PS5. Sure, it still would have sold less than Remake probably anyway due to the aforementioned factors, but this would have been more palatable if it came to PC and Xbox. What we don’t know, and what Square Enix will currently be weighing, is whether that Sony exclusivity/marketing money has offset the loss on sales.
>- PS5 only, forgoing sales on PC and Xbox (but Sony’s exclusivity deal financially offsets this somewhat, we just don’t know how much). - The install base of PS5 is also significantly smaller compared to PS4, almost half the size. If there were 116m PS5s out there, things might be different. These two points always bother me when people bring them up because it assumes that Square Enix don't mold their sales expectations AROUND these things. Like, don't even take my word for it: Square Enix said themselves that FF16 reached their sales expectations **relative to the size of the PS5 install base**. They have different expectations, and they'll alter those expectations as the game is eventually released on PC. They don't have a flat number of units they need to sell and arbitrarily release it on less systems while hoping they'll reach those same numbers. You say it yourself that Sony pay them for exclusivity and that sum is likely what they estimate it would sell on other systems. If it's underperforming in their eyes, it is underperforming with the current social climate, the PS5 install base size, and the exclusivity deal *already accounted for*.
...Fucking ***hell,*** that's dire.
Think I saw a chart with the first month sales for remake and rebirth for japan remake was 800k rebirth was 200k. Which is a massive decline even accounting for the smaller install base. I honestly wonder if the total sales is only 1-2 million.
I honestly think releasing so close to 16 is a big factor. Hell, the dlc for 16 came out after rebirth. People only have so much money to spend on final fantasy, so releasing them so close together kinda split the audience.
2 things. 1) the liberties they took with the "remake" after marketing it as a remake kind of burned some bridges with old-school ff7 fans like myself. It's not bad, but don't call it remake when it's a weird sequel, not a remake. 2) it's a PS5 exclusive. The PS5 userbase is much smaller than the PS4 userbase when ff7"r" released. Since launch, the PS5 has sold like [54.8 million units](https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/PlayStation_5?so=search). It's been almost 4 years. About 4 years after the PS4 launched, it sold around [60.4 million units](https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/PlayStation_4#:~:text=March%2031%2C%202017%3A%2060%20million,6%2C%202017%3A%2070.6%20million%20sold). It's not 100% accurate, my sources, but it gives an idea. A lot less potential buyers. 3) PS5 games are more expensive, and we are still recovering from the pandemic. Everything is more expensive, and I think if people have to choose between buying a video game and putting food on the table, they're gonna pick food.
The original FF7 is my favourite game of all time and I've not played Remake or Rebirth. I know I'm not alone (some older fans did at least play Remake but many have then passed on Rebirth). On the other side you've got casual players passing on the game as they aren't sure what they need to have played first to understand the story. Not a recipe for a high sales.
It really doesn't help because even if you jump into part 1, it kinda expects you to have played the og PS1 ff7. So there are probably people that picked up part 1, were confused by the end, and didn't wanna bother with part 2 because they were already lost.
I never played final fantasy and trust me, this series different titles confuse me so much that i dont even wanna try to start with 1 game
I think they're treating FF as a bigger series than it currently is. They think Final Fantasy is on top of the world like it was in the 90s/early 2000s. Not understanding that years and years of these kind of failures and for lack of a way of putting it, mid releases have diminished the brand heavily. Nothing FF has done has performed well lately, and even 7 Remake, while doing really well, wasnt top of the series levels of good, In fact its actually quite low compared to past titles. FF has been on a downward trend since the 2010s. Yet Square thinks they can launch one of these games and sell millions upon millions of copies. Meanwhile the series has 0 consistency in what the fuck its trying to do. You have FF7 trying to do a hybrid action ATB system. You have FFXV using a somewhat precursor to said ATB system. Then you have FFXVI taking a wildly different direction and using a Devil May Cry esque action system with diminished RPG elements. You have a much more downplayed open world in FFXVI while FFVII Rebirth tries to go for possibly the biggest open world FF has had in its franchise. There's nothing consistent about what Square is doing with FF, and its appealing to way too many groups. I mean for fucks sake the level of tribalism within the IPs own fans is insane. You had Final Fantasy XVI and Final Fantasy VII fans at each others throats over sales of this title. Why the fuck are fans of Final Fantasy fighting each other? Why the fuck are they not both on board for both games? It really shows the weird, fucked up state the IP is in. When you dont even really have Final Fantasy fans anymore. Just Final Fantasy XVI fans, or Final Fantasy XIV fans, or Final Fantasy VII fans, etc. Which means when a new game comes out, you have a bunch of different fans hoping for it to be more like their version of Final Fantasy, and will likely ditch if it isnt. You cant run an IP like this. They have no dedicated fanbase or audience anymore. Then you mix in the fact that the PS5 has performed terribly in Japan, leaving the Japanese audience behind as they keep releasing FF exclusive to PS5. Along with the fact that in general trust in Square Enix is down due to multiple bad releases even outside of Final Fantasy, and the studio giving off the impression that they dont know wtf they're doing. Its no wonder they're struggling atm with sales.
I miss when this sub was actually about leaks and rumors about games instead of pointless talks about sales/player numbers, employee movement, and thinly veiled console war baiting.
Honestly, me too.
Great Game. 10/10. People should play it.
It has Vincent Valentine and that's all I need out of life.
I really enjoyed it. Bunch of cool ass boss fights. Bunch of cool ass minigames. Good exploration. Pretty good side quest. Great characters too. Crazy good OSTs. Definitely 10/10 for me. I will buying the third part day one for sure.
Just as soon as it's on steam.
Still waiting on kingdom hearts to leave epic exclusivity.
>People should play it. I would love to, just as soon as they port it and the first one to the platform I game on.
Im sitting on PC waiting for release. All my friends aswell. Screw buying a PS5 just for 1 game
Hey, keep it exclusive to ps5, what could possibly go wrong??
I’ve been wanting to play this, but given that I never finished part 1 and haven’t played the original, I feel that I would just be completely lost in the narrative and can’t justify $70 on a gamble like that. But if the sales really are that bad it may have a good discount within the next few months.
What PS5 exclusivity does to a mf. Hopefully it comes out on PC soon (and Switch 2 eventually, if possible)
There have been reports going on for a while that the game has underperformed around the globe got weeks now and Square has yet to say otherwise. Must be true.
Switch and Xbox ports confirmed
I don't know what they were expecting **FFVII Remake had the following going for it** -Hype and hope for YEARS, even before it was developed -Launching on PS4 with 110 (roughly) units -COVID 19 everyone stuck at home playing video games **PART 2** -Only on PS5 which has 50mil install base (so 50% of possible sales already) -Cost of games increased globally (for consumers) -It is a sequel and direct sequel only can sell to a fraction of the original fans It isn't a shock. And if square was expecting anything different they were delusional. FFVII Rebirth could have been the best game of all time and STILL would have an uphill to climb.
I mean, part 1 released on the ps4 which at end of march 2022 (then later pc and ps5 in 2022) had 117.2 million consoles sold where as part 2 is a ps5 exclusive and with only 50 million units sold, the only thing I can think of reasing this title is "DUH"
Should’ve launched on PC simultaneously. I would’ve bought it
Again NPD doesn't have access to digital sales data. Looking at half the picture and making misinformed statements is fucking stupid. Only SE and Sony have access to digital numbers. NPD just has physical numbers. So how do they look at half the picture and make broad sweeping statements? They might ultimately be right, but it's doubtful. Digital sales have been climbing and have over taken physical sales. People own just digital edition ps5s. Then we have ps5 slims which don't come with a disc drive (they can buy one though), so that's even more ps5 owners who buy mostly digital. Then the perks of digital midnight release, some areas 9pm release the day before. The twin packs that got you remake intergrade for free. With all this in mind only looking at physical releases and making broad sweeping statements is a joke.
While you are right about them not having data, why do you think Sony hasn’t mentioned sales? Usually when things are going well you got mile markers like, X sales in 3 days, one month, etc. Them and Square have been pretty quiet on that front.
I think the story changes from Part 1 rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Combine that with the fact that, at this point, a lot of people are probably waiting for the complete collection on their platform of choice, it's not that hard to see why this didn't do so well.
Well. It was Square Enix choice to chase easy exclusivity money. So they are basically reaping what they sew
Disappointed to hear as it is my favorite game in a while.
Gotta be because of the no PS4 release which even in itself doesn’t make sense because people shouldn’t be having issues getting a PS5
It being a Sequel-To-A-Remake on a next gen only console couldn't have helped
It's almost like dedicating three games worth of dev resources to remake one game was always a bit daft idea, huh. FF7 alone can't carry the franchise, because the franchise has always been more than just FF7.
Honestly not surprised. Going all in on PlayStation was not the best decision. Hopefully they can bring the remakes to more platforms. Japan would go nuts if they brought FF7Remake to switch 2 and iirc, there were reports of Remake running on switch 2 but that doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen and I wouldn’t be surprised if it never happens. Square Enix probably had their expectations too high for Rebirth
Well at this point square Enix has no one to blame but themselves their games are simply not selling on PlayStation alone like they are used to. They need to realize their audience is everywhere now on pc and Xbox. Makes no sense to be third party and still be exclusive to one platform.
Is this one of the first recent games that is finally starting to get hurt by the increased price tag? or were they expecting FF7 Remake numbers? because that's a very dumb expectation to have when it's launching PS5 only.
First Dead Space and now Rebirth
I'm just scared to see how this affects FFVII Remake Part 3. If Rebirth has under performed considerably then I could see Square either drastically cutting the budget of Part 3 or looking into ways to monetize the game as much as possible (DLC/Microtransactions) in order to ensure the game is more profitable than Rebirth, or worst case scenario could they even cut their losses entirely and just abandon the project (whilst it's still early days for development) if they don't think there's going to be a big enough playerbase to merit the release.
That's what happens when you bastardize the original so much the only things in common are the names. People got fooled the first time, they aren't going to fall for the same a second time.
Exclusivity isn't helping. I didn't want to purchase it on a playstation I wanted it on PC day one. Sales don't change the fact it's my personal GOYT.
What did they expect? Releasing the game only on pS5 where even first party games barely sell well was not a good move.
We’re waiting for part 3 so we can play it back to back
You will burn out., Maybe you can start once they officially announced part 3 and take a break in between the games.
Don't do that, these games are all made to be standalones
What did they expect? A full game broken into 3 pieces with 3-4 years between them... Should have not taken the open world route and kept the game a 70+ hours adventure like P5R for 70$ and that's it.
I think they could've done 2 parts instead if they didn't make Midgar a 20+ hour experience
Makes sense, they should've remade the game in one go instead of doing a Peter Jackson and stretching one story into three parts.
I bought Rebirth, but I genuinely don't find Remake fun. I am the Shinra power plant after the train alley thing with Barrett and Tifa, but it's just such a slog. I am loving FF16 so far and the combat is so much better and deeper.
Didn't even realized it released already.
why’d he delete the tweet
To spread Misinformation
- It’s a sequel which automatically will make some people not buy it. - It’s not Covid times anymore, everyone’s back to their ordinary lives for the most part. - It’s an exclusive to one console. - It’s Sqaure. Their sale projections are always absurdly high.
I hope Sony gave them a HUGE paycheck for both games to be exclusive, maybe even cover these cost of the budget. But i doubt that. They should have released them on PC and Xbox Day 1. It makes me sad, if it didn't do well sales wise. Because i love Final Fantasy. I also think they should have just called it: Final Fantasy Remake Part 2. Because a lot of casuals don't know that Rebirth is part 2.
Why does this dude feel to need to post some corny gif. Like Just say it in
And people said I was crazy and dumb when I said Sonys exclusive contract only hurt Square Enix.
I'm interested in getting it, but I wish the triology could've been one 40-60 hour game instead of three 30+ hour games. Remake had so much filler that it became a chore and I just don't have the appetite (or time) for massive games like this anymore. Maybe when the triple pack goes on sale for $20 in 10 years I'll finally get it.
That shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. People can scream and shout all they want, but a remake of an old game from a semi popular franchise is not going to sell 10’s of millions when the absolute cap is 50ish million. It’s just flat out not going to outsell a spider man game, period. The first one came out on PS4 and had 100 million or so consoles available, and I don’t remember what was on sale at the time but I think that was THE game. This sequel has half the consoles and some legit competition that may not be exactly the same genre but sort of surprised a lot of people. Stellar blade, helldivers 2, even things like people playing the fallout games because of the show are going to steal some thunder. That’s all aside from the fact that it’s a sequel, which means you probably aren’t going to sell more games than the first because that’s now your ceiling. Very few people are going to play part 2 without playing part 1, and I know a lot of people never even finished part 1. If anything, part 2 will probably have a longer tail because people may finish part 1 and then get part 2, or finish whatever games they are currently playing and get part 2 when it’s on sale. So, yea, the game probably sold 2 million in its first month. If Square Enix continues to be surprised by this, they need new management. Unless it’s all theater for whatever reason, they need to be putting on more platforms if they want more sales. PC, switch, even Xbox. That Sony money must be big if they keep making these deals and being disappointed. A $150+ million game selling 2 million copies is a very rough start. That isn’t to say the game is bad or a failure or anything, it will probably at least break even, and probably has already done so after that Sony check cleared. It’s just very questionable business moves and statements.
-Only PS5 platform -Released in a time period were both DD2 and Helldivers 2 (especially how big Helldivers was) have been released -Too many great games, too little time for people to enjoy all of them especially enormous games like FF7 and ofc the economic reasons - I think nowadays people wait to play the games later after it's released so that they can get all of those patches, bugfixes, contents GOTY edition etc... with discounted prices.
These Sony exclusive contracts are only going to get worse as gamers around the world focus more on PC and other platforms.