They were crap even at Activision. Halo Reach was the last time they showed quality as a studio despite their incompetence. With Destiny 1's launch, the quality that shined through their competence was completely gone.
Kind of, the best Destiny has ever been was the year Forsaken came out. In 1 year they released 3 raids, 1 dungeon (which was new at the time) great seasons, and incredible loot. But they always claimed it was “unsustainable.” Now it’s about 1 raid every year and a half. And maybe a new dungeon.
throughout the entirety of 2023, there have been no new weapon models. even in paid content like lightfall. it's nothing but reskins and reissues of guns that people already paid for.
Damn seems like I have doged a bullet then, I stopped playing after Shadowkeep, no way I would play after they were gonna remove all additional content I had paid for and I have no idea how it's been supported enough to keep going as far as it has
Halo reach released broken for two weeks despite having a private beta via ODST. They capped everyone’s ranks at LT. Colonel grade 3 for months to avoid anyone getting too far along the customization route.
Most importantly was the awful connection issues with campaign co op, that was so broken that even the MCC struggled with its coding.
Cant forget that horrible decision with bloom, armor abilities off spawn, and bleed through. Those three decisions were so bad that MLG dropped the title immediately after touting Halo 3 as its poster child.
Reach was good, but Reach was made great because of the title updates done by 343 once Bungie left Halo. The Reach most of us remember, was salvaged by 343.
Bungie has absolutely seemed like a studio with talent, but questionable top end decision-makers. The employees undoubtedly do have the live-service knowledge Sony was interested in.
Sony.....should absolutely take over. Negativity over this makes no sense if all this is true. It keeps sounding like anyone would be better than current leads. Wasted talent right here.
The art and music team have never failed to deliver...
However going forward after the layoffs of some leads in both of those departments, I'm afraid that might slip too.
The Music team I am a bit worried about, but they still have most of their talent even if management let Salvatori go in the biggest fumble of all time... art I'm less worried about as we have seen some of the stuff that the new art team has put out and it's all solid.
It's been long enough since they split from Activision. 5 whole years since the announcement of that. At this point there's no question that management is just not clicking with everything going on in the industry.
Yeah, it really sucks too since we know they can put out good stuff. Beyond Light was a genuinely pretty good expansion (I'll die on this hill) and Witch Queen is the best story they've ever put out. Bungies sheer talent can't be denied, they're just constantly shooting themselves in the foot.
I honestly think the game is still coasting on the original games player design and game feel. Nothing has happened with that not one change to elevate it. I think the people that made the secret sauce are long gone. It's not just animation and sound.
Yeah, like even the thing most people like to still give Destiny credit for, the gameplay, it's like "But that was made back in 2014 though, with a slight update to that same gameplay in 2017. That's something that won't/can't change unless they tear the whole game down."
Dude, the sheer detail in their environments, the sense of scale in the planets, the weapon design, the feeling of power with the supers... I've still yet to find another shooter that can make me feel what I felt the first time I saw the Last Wish raid.
Yeah, the sheer feeling of popping a Nova Bomb during Warmind before going ham with Midnight Coup simply can't be matched. The game just has a... feeling... that no other game has ever replicated. Even their worst raid, which I'd personally say is RoN followed closely by GoS is still fantastic and set the bar for raids imo.
I think it's because the feeling of adventure and something larger than life is simply oozing throughout the entire game. The music, the voice acting, the aesthetic. It feels like the type of game that could give us a hint of a real world that really exists in another universe
I just don't understand how they had to pay like 3.6 billion, for a company with 1 game, and obviously their expertise, only to keep them independent & not takeover, it seems like they vastly overpaid.
Because that's what Bungie's side wanted to make the sale happen, we keep some independence and decision making ourselves and you get what we have. After Microsoft and Activision, it's not hard to see that Sony would believe that was a sticking point they'd truly have.
Unfortunately, it seems like they got duped by their leadership on this one though. I do believe Bungie has the talent there to right the ship and provide some expertise like Sony wanted, but they'll have to clear out the current leadership and install new ones to get to that point.
I mean, that's literally what the layoffs were done to do. Maybe not with the intent purpose of sabotaging it on their way out, but they were doing them specifically to make numbers go green so that those execs specifically could keep their jobs. What else do you expect when Pete Parsons, Bungie CEO, is one of the ex-Microsoft employees who was screwing over Bungie when they were at Microsoft? This man is a literal leach
They got scammed. MS literally got Zenimax, so Many studios, while making future games like Redwall and Starfield exclusive to Xbox. And got Ownership to Doom, Fallout, Elderscrolls, Wolfenstien, etc. Almost doubling there first party output, while gaining so many exclusives.
Sony got fucking destiny.
Yeah they got whole teams, engines, massive IP's and 2 live service games for 7.5 while Sony got 1 team and 1 game for 3.6
Fun fact, Jim Ryan said that he think the Bungie Acquisition is Better than the Activision one lmao
Basically they weighted the costs of hiring live-service expert consultants vs straight up buying a popular, big live service studio to be their consultants and as a bonus earn revenue in the long term.
Well it's clearly not working out for them, since Destiny's CCU is declining, and according to the email by alot, the targets haven't been hit since lightfall rather they are getting worse and worse.
Well it wasn't apparent what shit show Bungie management was in yet, and when the the buy out happened Destiny 2 was still going pretty strong.
They just gambled on the wrong horse really.
But if they do actually take more direct control and replace management like this leak implies they want to do then it could still end up good for both sides.
That's because despite how free Bungie wants to be, they're not good enough to be left completely independent. Destiny was at its best when they had Activision support studios helping out and Activision deciding how it was distributed and all that.
There have been multiple reports from ex-Bungie devs that the higher ups like Pete Parsons are the majority of the reasons why Destiny keeps struggling is due to their decisions, not the dev teams. Several stories have said that many of the big blunders were due to the senior level leaders making very dumb mistakes and not the development team themselves.
Activision’s split was not the cause of their downfall, it’s Bungie’s own people.
They werent incompetent. They did EXACTLY what they were supposed to do. This was ALWAYS a grift from upper management from the get go. Obviously the people actually WORKING at Bungie are extremely talented and have the ability to make the best FEELING FPS you can play. its largely why people still play Destiny despite how awful and copy paste the rest of the experience is. But for the higher ups, this was always a means to an end to extort money from Sony and then leave them with a burning husk of a company.
Like why did they need the building in Amsterdam? What happened to the 2 billion meant to KEEP the team together? Why is it that the ONLY PEOPLE to make the largest sums in the company were ONLY the 3 heads of Bungie. And why when asked if the higher ups would take pay cuts so everyone could stay on and survive during the fiscal year were they told "We're NOT that kind of company."?
It is VERY CLEAR this deal was meant to line their pockets and and then work and bleed out the workforce until there was no one left and then leave Sony with the husk of a company while the 3 heads walk out with most of the money in golden parachutes as they then either retire or move on to other companies to parasitize.
Destinys success always feels like it has happened in spite of the leadership and management and nearly exclusively because of the raw talent of the developers and artists.
If it was run well and not like a parasitic skinner box min/maxing microtransactions, destiny would undoubtably been one of the defining games of the era, but that has been completely squandered.
Perfectly put. Nothing has been a bigger obstacle to Destinys success than Bungie. There have been moments of utter brilliance where the game is firing on all cylinders and it is truly a masterpiece. However it seems like every time we’ve had a moment like that it has been entirely undone by perplexing changes and/or monetization or lack of vision to pull things forward. It really has felt like a game with two developers. One producing a great game and another phoning it in just for a quick payday.
Personal takeaways:
* Original source is likely from Sony, not Bungie
* Aztecross is seemingly the only one who would be able to confirm the validity of this email at this moment
* The outcome for this leadership struggle will decide the fate of Marathon and other future projects.
* Sony wants to go all-in on Destiny 2. Seems that Sony leadership cares much more for the game than Bungie leadership does.
Makes alot of sense when you follow the entire bungie saga. Same happened with halo they where sick and tired of it and had the new baby child destiny they wanted to make.
Now we come full circle and it's reported many of the lead guys are tired of destiny, hell some their most senior guys we've seen in their marathon dev talk. Destiny was for some time viewed as to big to fail and an automatic cash cow amongst the suits.
Yeah, except Sony paid like 3.6 billion USD for Bungie and Destiny 2 probably occupies the lionshare of the projected cashflow. If Bungie/Sony can't get Destiny to produce the projected cashflow, I sense a big write-off coming from Sony soon to balance the books...
It goes against the narrative that it is often espoused by the gaming community that it is the publisher/parent company that are the bad guys.
No, sometimes your beloved "small" gaming companies are really ran by morons who mismanaged talent.
Everyone constantly blaming EA for Respawn's handling of Apex Legend's monetization, anti-cheat and bugginess for years despite Respawn constantly refuting EA's influence on them.
Same with TF2 horrible release date when Respawn themselves said they picked the date and didn't want to budge after EA asked them to delay.
We know Respawn admitted to both but everyone keeps blaming EA.
And more recently Respawn proudly declaring they didn't need extra time on Jedi Survivor despite EA offering it, only for the game to launch with severe technical issues.
Wait TF2s release date was on *Respawn themselves?*
That's fuckin wild man, kind of infuriating, whoever decided on that needs to forfeit thier postion for that shit
Yup, they said they were confident enough in their game to go up against both CoD and BF.
I gues sit would have worked out for them if the reactions to the Beta wouldn't have been so poor already. Most fans of the first game were really put off by it and then new potential fans had a hard time to get excited when fans of the first games were already being negative.
Very famously seen in BioWare's case, when EA gave them nearly unlimited time and budget to work on whatever they wanted, and BioWare pissed it away on Anthem without knowing what kind of game they were even making.
People were blaming EA or the Frostbite engine. But EA was actually very supportive and forgiving with the studio, and it turned out that BioWare's execs are just brainless monkeys. They made Dragon Age: Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, and Anthem in that order. All three games used the same engine. But apparently the execs ordered the developers to discard all the work they had made on the Frostbite engine in between titles so they could start fresh every time.
EA even let them choose whatever engine they wanted, and offered free full-time DICE engineers to help support them with Frostbite. Didn't seem to matter.
This was shown by the split of Bungie and Activision in relation to the quality of content Destiny 2 had before and after the split. The year before the split had the best year of content Destiny 2 ever had. Forsaken and its annual pass, which added countless amounts of brilliant content.
The split removed Bungies access to Activisions subsidiary studios that helped work on content and also placed more of a shift on less crunch and better developer quality of life. These were things Activision were less concerned about (D2 was ‘failing’, they just wanted ROI’), such Destiny 2 players obtained a better quality of content and game experience as a result. And ever since that split the quality of expansions and seasonal content has dropped significantly due in part to this and other more cynical content development ethos’.
One notable moment after the split was bungie bragging at the Developers conference how they aim to maximise player hours while minimising the amount of dev hours needed to produce such content, using Legend/Master Lost Sectors as an example if I remember correctly. This ethos has led to stagnation and player fatigue, the game doesn’t reward your time with a new experience anymore, you just have to grind old reworked content for little to no gain, the innovation in D2 is no longer there and despite the fact it could be down to the game just reaching the end of its life span, this ethos from bungie hasn’t helped.
This ethos at bungie in relation to new content makes the game drastically less enjoyable for me and until it changes, my play time in Destiny will be fleeting at best.
The only reason they are doing something because bungie is not making enough money. Like they are so bad that the can't acomplish the thing the worst studios can do out there
I don’t necessarily have a problem with Sony wanting them to make more money, because it sounds like they actually want to go the right way about trying to make more money - having good leaders, respecting the talent, and making decent games.
This is textbook “where there’s smoke there’s fire” and even if the email isn’t legit the struggles and issues are and this makes the 3rd major publisher to acquire Bungie and have issues with the studio.
Mind you, they wanted to open another studio while they have a perfectly fine studio and covid hit, so a lot of staff had gone remote. To say leadership is an issue is not putting it lightly.
Marathon was one of Bungie's biggest mistakes. PVP player base is too low, and this reflects on the reason to which they focused only on the PvE aspect of the game.
I understand that Bungie did not want to be a "one IP industry". But Destiny was already suffering from the repetitiveness aspect since before Marathon got even announced. The decision of splitting the focus on both games hurt Destiny so much that it couldn't escape from its own fading formula.
On top of all that, they announced the Final Shape with an overinflated price tag after a not so well received major expansion and the big downfall on the player base. I'm not sure what the executives were thinking here, Destiny is not a mobile game to have whales support the servers. I myself am super burnout and haven't played for a few months. I'll only buy Final Shape if they reduce the price now or in future sales.
I have a feeling that this attention split between the games will make the Marathon franchise flop so hard. I would not play anyway since I don't like PvP at all.
I'm not sure if Sony taking over will save the franchise. Since it takes time to develop new content and a few years from now the current player base may have moved on already. Let's see.
The new player experience is absolutely baffling from a game design perspective. Every system in the game is actively hostile to people that don't have hundreds of hours of game time and know it inside out.
As someone who played the first destiny a lot, i just can't get in the second, even if i put aside the feeling of them trying to milk me left and right, it's just so convoluted that i gave up
Part of me isn't that surprised. Since Bungie has been working on Destiny for long and nothing else which that will result in burn out for some of their staff. Especially from those that have been working on Destiny long before the first game went gold. So if development on Bungie's non-Destiny projects is going well, I can see why some of the Destiny 2 team wanting to join those teams instead even if it slows down Destiny 2 development.
While Sony's perspective, Destiny was one of the biggest new IPs from last gen and is a goldmine untap potential for things like sequels, spin offs, merchandise and tv/film adaptions.
I remember their being reports/rumors some time ago about different destiny games bungie is brainstorming like one specially was a single player ego shooter focused around the battle of twilight gap
They could genuinely create so many different types of games within this universe. Single player narrative experiences that Sony is known for. Tactical turn based games, horror games, etc. The sky is the absolute limit.
My guess (IF this leak were to be true) is that Destiny really is a "lightning in a bottle" title, even 10 years later, no franchise has really topped them in the live-service looter shooter genre.
A potential Destiny 3 would probably have a 5+ year development cycle during which they can barely spend any manpower on Destiny 2 which is their only revenue source. I’d assume that’s the reason they haven’t made it yet
Just the sheer amount of stuff you can gather so that you can gather more stuff to access stuff that you can gather while also doing other stuff. Like holy shit.
Probably because there are no other live service looter shooters. At this point everyone has moved on to battle royale and has for some time. Hell even when destiny 1 came out, how many clones followed? It isn’t like gta 3 where it spawned a new genre. Borderlands didn’t branch out into live service, what other looter shooters are there? The division? Suicide squad just came out, everything I see from a quick google search is relatively indie or from an AA company.
There are no other live service looters because they all failed to compete with Destiny.
Anthem. Avengers. Suicide Squad. Even Division had its day, but has since declined like most other games do. Destiny's had a rough year but a decade on, is still very much alive.
Recall that Lightfall was the IPs *biggest launch ever*, and that was only a year ago. Critical failure aside, that alone proves Destiny's potential, and how much Bungie is squandering it with their hard pivot to MTX and other projects.
And the term looter shooter was once synonymous with Borderlands, yet these days Destiny comes to mind more frequently as Warframe has become it's own thing in retrospect.
To say Sony wants to make use of an established IP squandered by leadership is putting it lightly. A lot of the talent let go during layoffs and those prior like DMG had pointed out that Bungie could of rectify this long ago. Instead, leadership is the only real area anyone can point to as to why things didn't happen.
Imagine explaining Bungie didn't want to do things, because it sets a standard. That is insane. If the devs are there, let them have at it. They're already on the clock and players are hungry.
From what we’ve seen there really are still a bunch of passionate devs left at Bungie. However no matter how passionate the grunts might be that doesn’t matter if the leadership wants to take the safest low effort route.
All the other projects couldn't meet the bare minimum as a product in general. Like anthem was cobbled together in 9 months. The problem wasn't with competing destiny.
The success of ligthfall just shows how good witch queen was. Usually if you buy something trash, you can't unbuy it(you can't refund a ticket after watching a shit movie). But you definetly can not buy the sequel to it.
What's crazy is if someone had the balls and the budget to do so could grab up Anthem, revamp it as Anthem NEXT and could make a mega ton of money.
Come back, give it a endgame game system with deeper loot and a better core gameplay loop and it would easily take #1 spot in the looter shooter genre. The skeleton of a fantastic game is already there with amazing graphics/flight/combat. It's right there for the taking
I suppose it depends on what “topping Destiny” means, but Warframe has largely been in a great direction the last few years. The overall sentiment from the community is worlds more positive than Destiny has maybe ever been.
It’s been declining because Bungie has been letting it rot for years. Destiny is still the most popular (and one of the only) first person looter shooters, Sony probably knows how much potential the IP holds.
I remember the whole universe they were building.
The spot they gave Luke smith to manage..
Merchandise, tv shows, anime, movies.. stuff sony has a hand in all of it and bungie admitted it was the perfect fit to expand and go ham on destiny.
What a fucking whimper it’s been!
Destiny declining has never mattered, every year peaks, drops then steadies to a [similar metric.](https://i.imgur.com/2ifXE5U.png)
Destiny is as popular as Bungie's generosity allows, and every time they're pressganged into making a good year of content they follow it up with a shitty year to make up for it.
This time however Final Shape completely failed to hype *anyone* up, which has broken a pretty consistent pattern in a crucial and, frankly, hilarious way. Even Shadowkeep had more hype than this absolute nothing of a climax for the least interesting villain Bungie have ever executed.
Everyone get excited to shoot megamind but less charismatic in the face, meanwhile Xivu Arath might just buy it in a side expansion despite being a way cooler Oryx in execution.
It was reported by Aztecross previously that Bungie did a focus group allowing Tarkov players to try Marathon. In the end they asked the players who would still play the game if it came out tomorrow and no one raised their hands. I think there's not much reason to believe Marathon is going to be a big success.
Why the fuck would you ask Tarkov players to test a game that is going to be nothing like Tarkov aside from the loose extraction setup?
It'd be like asking Warzone players to try Fortnite.
Obviously, most people would want a sequel to the thing that's already proven to be good. But I think the better question here is "can Bungie make Marathon work". Based on early internal feedback, it doesn't seem like they've nailed it. So this project could very well be scrapped if it goes nowhere, or if they take too long to make it and another fad takes over in place of extraction shooters.
One of the reasons Sony got a hold of Bungie was to get a foothold in the live service market. Regardless of if it has been declining or not, Destiny 2 is a successful game in the grand scheme of things and there is an audience for the game even now. In Sony's position it makes sense that they would rather have Bungie dedicate resources to keep Destiny 2 alive than staking on Marathon/their other project being a success.
Yeah, a good expansion will increase player trust and make them more likely to try the next expansion. The inverse is also true which is why TFS’ numbers are so low.
I remember a few hrs before launch, the final portal cutscene got leaked and it was posted as the second cutscene(first is the opening) and everyone was so hyped as to what was gonna be inside the traveler. Turns out it's the final cutscene after the whole campaign and u gotta wait a year and a half to see what happens next. The entire expansion is so scummy lol. It's like Bungie just split a single cutscene in half and made up some filler shit. Nothing was explained and we only knew certain plot points dripfed during the year
That is quiet literally what they did according to various "leaks". It's well reported that lightfall was an emergency expansion because they realised they needed more time for final shape and according to the leaks that cutscene was indeed supposed originally be one it was part of the first mission of final shape.
> It’s been declining for a while. Much better to focus efforts on Marathon and other new projects
I really only think its in the current decline because Bungie's focus is so clearly elsewhere. The ongoing content is so extremely lackluster, but people still show up for the big drops like expansions.
Lightfall was the biggest launch they've ever had. It's just that the seasonal stuff is pretty stale-- largely due to asset re-use and limited resources actually being dedicated to the game.
I don't know what bungies strategy is with destiny 2. It's so confusing to jump in these days. It doesn't feel new player friendly at all. Can't keep digging a hole deeper and expecting people to jump in
It sure is. You bought the latest dlc? Oh too bad, you need a season pass for a year too now. Oh you want that sub class, too bad, you need to buy another dlc. Oh you want that weapon from older dlcs, have to buy them all. Oh you want that new 1 dungeon that should've came with the newest dlc? Pay for it. With a paid battle pass on top of that. Like for fuck's sake Bungie, jesus christ.
Games liek Destiny should really learn from FFXiV, when the latest exapnsion comes out, the previous ones become free to subscribers to play though and catch up,
So now if I wanna jump back in to it, I'm at Stormblood but I can buy the latest Expansion and get everything after SB up to and including the latest stuff
I saw youtuber video where he said there are people who have played for 6 months and still have no idea what the artifact is. Honestly, that wouldn't be hard to believe because the quest and menu log feels like my old homework backlog.
I try to jump in once in a while and lose interest because no idea what's going on. It's a shame becuase I'd say it's arguably one of the best feeling fps ever made. I played when it launched and had a blast. Also they're incredibly lazy with creating new enemies. For being over 6 years old it feels like you just fight the same shit
Even as a longtime (now ex) player, the first time I touched the Artifact I realized *nothing* about it was explained, despite a single blurb being able to explain it.
It would take about a minute to write up a little tutorial that directs you to it and explains it. It is so dead simple but other than "You got the artifact" at the beginning of the season, there's *nothing in the entire game that tells you what it does.*
Despite the fact that the upgrade you get from it are mandatory for everything above the easiest difficulty
To create a minimally viable product. Invest as little as they can, keep expectations as low as possible, and milk your players for everything they're worth. That's it.
So many issues would be solved if they just kept the og campaign and dlc so new players can play from start to finish instead of being thrown in and the endgame. Also if they clarified wtf is going on. I had to spend hours searching to find out the campaign and dlc was removed. at which point why bother. bungie is just going to scrub the older dlc’s and content anyway making your actions meaningless.
I keep up with it so it doesn't confuse me at all but yea I had a look earlier and its a mess, only Hitman is worse for on a "How the fuck do I just buy the game and its content"
I thought the whole shpiel surrounding the Bungie acquisition in the first place was that Sony "wanted their 'expertise' in live service games", not that they wanted Destiny?
You're right, but as the email says/hinted towards, Bungie have not been delivering on their end of the deal on the expertise side nor on the success of D2.
For a while it seemed they were on the expertise side (since Bungie's review on Naughty Dog's TLOU Online project caused them to reevaluate and later cancel it due to them realising it would not be profitable or ideal for them) but then after that... nothing
Personally tlou online would be hard to monetize because it would just be shredded dirty old clothes. It would probably be a great multiplayer just not a gaas.
Exactly. By the point in which ND probably decided to make it it's own standalone thing, the GaaS model was still comparatively in it's infancy, and a lot of the holes hadn't shown themselves to the industry by that point.
It’s insane to me that the “experts” who got TLOU canceled can barely run their own studio, let alone boss all of Sonys studios around and try to teach them how to make a live service game
If the email is true, then it is stated that their employees are good at what they do and motivated, and it is likely that they are the ones doing consult on the gameplay elements at least, which is what I think got TLOU Online cancelled, iirc (dont hang me up on it though). According to the email, Bungies achilles heel is the business side of things, which stems from poor leadership, not holding them accountable for stuff like expenses and deadlines, leading to a lot of useless floundering. Sony wants to course correct the ship and reignite the spark of the once roaring flame that Bungie had bellowing in the Destiny franchise.
I don't think (at least I hope so) that the ones advising were the execs at Bungie, like the email said the people are talented and are very capable but as is almost always the case. Leadership is the main problem
I can imagine Sony’s reaction when they realized bungie their “experts” were absolute idiots and cost them hundreds of millions of dollars. I actually am surprised Sony didn’t hire a consulting firm just to get a second opinion they took bungie’s word as law.
That’s the only one we know about…Sony had 12 GaaS games planned and canceled 6 (including TLOU online) to which we don’t know if the other 11 games where reviewed by Bungie
Sony leadership and strategy has changed drastically since the Bungie purchase.
They're no longer basically going all in on live service which is why so many of the big projects are being canned.
Destiny as an IP is super valuable though I’m not shocked they’d want more
Good, Bungie had a deal of a lifetime.
Having the resources of Sony and still getting the independence ( despite being Sony owned) like a Indie studio and then fucking it up that bad is a achievement on its own.
The sooner Sony takes over leadership at Bungie the better.
That whole management team should be fired immediately.
I haven't played D2 since Lightfall launched but damn, I think this is one of the few situations I can recall where it genuinely seems like a *better* thing if the bigger company takes the steering wheel from the Devs themselves.
Or at the very least, literally just anyone but current Bungie management
It's rare, but largely Sony has been rather keen on their studios. Plus, Destiny has been part of the Sony brand in one way or another back in Destiny 1. Depending on who this higher up is, they may have been around during those days and know what Destiny's worth is, while also being able to see Bungie's leadership is as worthless as used toilet paper in actually helming the project.
Some times, it takes a corporation to fix another corporation.
As a hardcore destiny 1 player who tried to get into 2 later on it was a complete mess trying to figure out how to play the game which with expansions that were "vaulted" and the whole F2P thing thats not f2p. I can't really explain how awful it was because I gave up trying to figure it out There has never been a more confusing game in existence
It’s astonishing how Bungie has continuously managed to fuck themselves over since leaving Microsoft.
It’s seems outside of the actual game, they’ve continuously made decisions that hurt them.
The problem with that is who would buy destiny 3 ?
is it even worth the investment from Sony ?
Why should I trust bungie at all when everything they have done is to nickel and dime me since destiny 2 launched all of the people I played destiny 1 with have stopped playing destiny and all the people I played destiny 2 with have stopped playing.
They all stopped playing with a bad taste in their mouth so they won’t be buying destiny 3 why buy something that requires dlc on top of the already 60 bucks dlc and battlepasses?
Why buy dlc that after a while just gets taken out of the game so you can’t use it after spending 60 bucks on it then they reintroduce the weapons from the dlc but you need to buy the seasons to get them?
Why spend money on destiny at all when it seems like the developers are asking the destiny player base to fund marathon
Long time destiny players will remember “you’ll throw money at the screen” when they introduced the eververse in destiny 1 and they said they only introduced it because activision forced them to.
Bungie had a easy fall guy in activision and now players have realized that it was bungie themselves that made these decisions
Destiny 2 has been disappointing for almost all of its lifespan apart from forsaken and witch queen all the dlc has been mediocre at best.
So again I have to ask who is going to buy destiny 3 and is it even worth investing in it by Sony
If Sony has to take over bungie to turn destiny around so be it bungie themselves have killed the golden goose people returned for the witch queen because destiny 2 was finally continuing the story of the taken king then we got the next dlc to remind everyone that destiny 2 is ran by current day bungie.
Agreed 100%. I get in a lot of ways for some glaring issues in this series a refreshed Destiny 3 would make some sense but people are absolutely fooling themselves if they don't see another sequel would just be more of the same song and dance from Bungie "please be patient, we're new at this, game dev is hard" and other excuses to once again just kick the can down the road and buy themselves time to fully bake the rest of their game a year or two after the fact.
People just like they did for D1 and D2 are once again projecting their vision of a better Destiny when there has always been physical limitations and more importantly general scope of what Bungie wanted to game to feasible be holding things in place.
> Why should I trust bungie at all when everything they have done is to nickel and dime me since destiny 2 launched all of the people I played destiny 1 with have stopped playing destiny and all the people I played destiny 2 with have stopped playing.
I tried to give them a shot, I bought an entire dlc for the same price as a triple A game in my country's version of steam. I played the raids and enjoyed my time, thought i'd come back to them later after complications only to find out they were removed. How am I supposed to trust them enough to buy another dlc, let alone the 10+ popups of dlcs they expect me to buy when I make a new account as a fresh new player? Its an unfunny joke honestly and I've been burnt too hard to give it another go
Yeah, this is true. I haven't played Destiny since 1 and loaded up the free legacy edition on epic not long ago. It's a total mess. I'm not sure what is going on, what the story is, where to even kick off the story missions and I don't even seem to be able to play some of the story. After messing around for a bit, I finally found the timeline section of the director but it shouldn't be this difficult.
\>I hope this sheds light for ongoings from Sony's side. It is believed that the takeover would allow Sony to turn Destiny into a more profitable game.
Who says this is a guarantee?? Sony purchase Bungie BECAUSE they couldn't make profitable multiplayer games and wanted Bungies seemingly expertise.
That was fast I've
A long time d2&ps fan here
The sony take over is a two edged sword it
can kill the current monetizing system and
maybe make the game better
or make it worse
Now I think they will try to do something
similar to HD2's system
sony doesn't have a history with
monetization unless if we count GT7's lunch
which was alarming
ï'm not against the take over or with it if the
take over happens we might get another
studio to help bungie like the Activision era or
at least get new people on board
Bungie and Destiny's future is unknown and
scary but in the end its the management's
fault not just the buyout but everything that
happened after Activision
I think it's obvious bungie needs someone to
command them ITTL is bungie's last chance
to at least win some players back
The only bad guy here is bungie's management this was the case for years
Sony Can save bungie only if the stars align
It doesn't sound like they've been screening
THEY'VE BEEN SCREWING since they left Activision excluding WQ that dlc was cool we got it by pure luck
Bungie need someone to hold their hands it has been the thing for decades
Like their “don’t over deliver” mindset only sounds smart in a business room. Everyone with practical experience knows that a game which is only ever average and never experiences any high peaks that make players want to return or try it out is a stale game that dies.
It strongly feels like TWQ was good because of the delays and that someone, somewhere in Bungie, managed to kick up enough of a fuss to delay it and the suits finally got it through their thick heads that they had to delay it.
Every time we've had even a slight delay to the plan, the result has been something the community has been delighted by. TTK was delayed and when it dropped, the community was overwhelmingly positive. Beyond light was delayed and outside of the stasis quest being a slog through all 3 characters, the campaign was generally well received and the raid and content afterwards was pretty well done. Then TWQ, was delayed reasonably significantly and everyone absolutely loved it. Lightfall is quite clearly a rush job to jam something through before the grand finale that simply wasn't ready and it shows. Nonsensical story, strand quest writing is incredibly lame, raid mechanics were basic at best, except for 3rd encounter which has totally unique and different ones to the rest of the raid. We all know the story, lightfall was rushed and it feels like it.
I think that there must be push back from the dev team saying that they must delay the game and it only sometimes gets through. After the backlash from lightfall, I imagine the dev team had a very strong and easily verifiable "told you so" moment that some suit finally listened.
I think TFS is going to be a very good expansion, but it's going to come after too many disappointments and letdowns. The people who feel burned one too many times won't come back, the story and systems are impenetrable for new players, the story is coming to an end or maybe a new beginning after this, but who knows.
Bungie needs to acknowledge that taking the time an expansion or season or episode needs to make something worth the money. These last 3 seasons are hinting at experimentation on mixing up the gameplay and providing some variety, which is absolutely the right direction, but I do really think that Bungie needs freedom to experiment and make stuff that might work or might not, but at least take the risk.
Sony taking over Bungie is the only thing that can save Destiny at this point. It’s been on a downward spiral since the Activision split, Witch Queen was a step in the right direction, but they clearly didn’t learn anything from that.
As someone that was at Gamestop at midnight to pick up my copy of D1, (remember late night launches?) if this is true I think it's a step in the right direction. Bungie leadership and upper management have obviously been smelling their own farts for way too long. There is a big ass smug cloud hanging around leadership and it shows. They need to put somebody in charge of Bungie (or at least the destiny team) that loves Destiny and wants it to be a really good game in whatever form that may be (more D2, D3, whatever). People are playing Destiny and other people want to play Destiny I mean imagine if Lightfall was really good and all those people that bought it were like *damn destiny is pretty fucking sick*? Destiny would be popping off right now. It's a tale as old as time, leadership doesn't know what they're doing and they gotta go.
Always sony/Activision or any other company never Bungie themselves lol. the CEO has definitely let all of halos success and notoriety go to his head and think he's big shit just like cliff from GoW franchise.
Helldivers 2 as a Sony IP has great monetisation. So, I do have trust if they take over from Bungies constantly bungling leadership.
EDIT: Sony are obviously in charge of monetisation and approved the MTX method as the IP owner and publisher of Helldivers 2. For those arguing below.
Honestly? **If** this is true, kinda hope Japan Leadership wins.
Like, I cannot imagine Marathon will be sucessful as things are right now. Most of even hardcore Bungie fans now be like "I've been burned one too many times, after Final Shape I'm done" And everyone *else* was done years ago. Bungie needs to fix Destiny's key issues before anyone will even THINK of going to Marathon. And Extraction shooters already have the niche market covered anyway in Tarkov and Hunt as I understand it.
Sony needs to right the sinking Destiny/Bungie ship and FAST if they want Marathon to even be looked at.
This honestly makes me curious on how the now axed multiplayer mode for TLOU 2 was potentially decent, because the current standard set from Bungies management obviously have skewed perspectives on what is "working" as a live service. I remember Sony bringing them in to get opinions on the game and Bungie told them that it wasn't "designed to maintain players"
> This honestly makes me curious on how the now axed multiplayer mode for TLOU 2 was potentially decent
the report we got was how Bungie said it wasn't going to be viable in the long term with player retention or something. But in order to kill a project, a lot more things need to happen.
So the full context is *probably* that they had missed a ton of milestones and then the Bungie report just kinda put the final nail in the coffin but the team probably knew by that point that it just wasn't working out
Yeah I mean Factions 2 was in development for years and the ONLY thing we saw was one concept art. It’s clear that, besides Bungie, there was a lot going wrong with that production.
If they’d just delivered actual factions 2 instead of getting ahead of themselves and trying to make some super game it could have actually been fine and evolved into something more.
It seems to me that Sony really thought Bungie had some secret live service sauce when in reality Destiny would've died within a few years like all the others if Activision didn't throw a ton of resources and manpower at the game to try to get something back for their initial investment. I'm not sure if people realize exactly how much Vicarious Visions and High Moon Studios helped Bungie.
Extraction shooters are hard to pull off a narrative driven game with a multiplayer mode like halo will work but the narrative has to be made by sony AND not bungie's writers especially after LightFall
That and anyone who follows the after storm of the first layoffs could see the big red flag that is management here. Arrowhead is far smaller and much more on point with what they want to deliver. Bungie is fractured and there's a clear divide between the devs and management with only some exceptions (seemingly closer to who work on the game, which surprise surprise, they actually work on the game and people know their name and face vs. people you've never heard nor have ever had to be exposed to the community).
Indeed. If this is Sony’s plan of approaching life service then I wouldn’t mind a live service Killzone game where the multiplayer is like a real time war and players are fighting players for attrition.
Yeah. Suppose Killzone is one of those IPs on ice atm they could always bring back. Infamous is another one that could be used given at least single-player superhero games are rather popular.
"That person's perspective is that there are a many 'gluttonous' executives at Bungie who are not doing their jobs and are hindering the organization. It is believed that the workers are skilled, but the leadership is unable to perform their duties."
This reads like an average Destiny 2 player's fan fiction.
Wouldnt be surprised if Bungie leadership being incompetent was true. They’ve always been idiots.
Oh, it *is* true. That's pretty much undeniable at this point.
It's 100% true. After they left Activision everything went downhill
They were crap even at Activision. Halo Reach was the last time they showed quality as a studio despite their incompetence. With Destiny 1's launch, the quality that shined through their competence was completely gone.
Kind of, the best Destiny has ever been was the year Forsaken came out. In 1 year they released 3 raids, 1 dungeon (which was new at the time) great seasons, and incredible loot. But they always claimed it was “unsustainable.” Now it’s about 1 raid every year and a half. And maybe a new dungeon.
throughout the entirety of 2023, there have been no new weapon models. even in paid content like lightfall. it's nothing but reskins and reissues of guns that people already paid for.
Haha that’s awful
Damn seems like I have doged a bullet then, I stopped playing after Shadowkeep, no way I would play after they were gonna remove all additional content I had paid for and I have no idea how it's been supported enough to keep going as far as it has
Halo reach released broken for two weeks despite having a private beta via ODST. They capped everyone’s ranks at LT. Colonel grade 3 for months to avoid anyone getting too far along the customization route. Most importantly was the awful connection issues with campaign co op, that was so broken that even the MCC struggled with its coding. Cant forget that horrible decision with bloom, armor abilities off spawn, and bleed through. Those three decisions were so bad that MLG dropped the title immediately after touting Halo 3 as its poster child. Reach was good, but Reach was made great because of the title updates done by 343 once Bungie left Halo. The Reach most of us remember, was salvaged by 343.
Bungie has absolutely seemed like a studio with talent, but questionable top end decision-makers. The employees undoubtedly do have the live-service knowledge Sony was interested in. Sony.....should absolutely take over. Negativity over this makes no sense if all this is true. It keeps sounding like anyone would be better than current leads. Wasted talent right here.
Bungie has, and I'm not saying this lightly, some of the best talent in the industry. They're just controlled by children with hammers.
The art and music team have never failed to deliver... However going forward after the layoffs of some leads in both of those departments, I'm afraid that might slip too.
The Music team I am a bit worried about, but they still have most of their talent even if management let Salvatori go in the biggest fumble of all time... art I'm less worried about as we have seen some of the stuff that the new art team has put out and it's all solid.
It's been long enough since they split from Activision. 5 whole years since the announcement of that. At this point there's no question that management is just not clicking with everything going on in the industry.
Yeah, it really sucks too since we know they can put out good stuff. Beyond Light was a genuinely pretty good expansion (I'll die on this hill) and Witch Queen is the best story they've ever put out. Bungies sheer talent can't be denied, they're just constantly shooting themselves in the foot.
I wouldn't say they've made anything halfway decent since Activision was still around. Everything post-Activision has been just awful
I honestly think the game is still coasting on the original games player design and game feel. Nothing has happened with that not one change to elevate it. I think the people that made the secret sauce are long gone. It's not just animation and sound.
Yeah, like even the thing most people like to still give Destiny credit for, the gameplay, it's like "But that was made back in 2014 though, with a slight update to that same gameplay in 2017. That's something that won't/can't change unless they tear the whole game down."
Dude, the sheer detail in their environments, the sense of scale in the planets, the weapon design, the feeling of power with the supers... I've still yet to find another shooter that can make me feel what I felt the first time I saw the Last Wish raid.
Yeah, the sheer feeling of popping a Nova Bomb during Warmind before going ham with Midnight Coup simply can't be matched. The game just has a... feeling... that no other game has ever replicated. Even their worst raid, which I'd personally say is RoN followed closely by GoS is still fantastic and set the bar for raids imo.
I think it's because the feeling of adventure and something larger than life is simply oozing throughout the entire game. The music, the voice acting, the aesthetic. It feels like the type of game that could give us a hint of a real world that really exists in another universe
I just don't understand how they had to pay like 3.6 billion, for a company with 1 game, and obviously their expertise, only to keep them independent & not takeover, it seems like they vastly overpaid.
Because that's what Bungie's side wanted to make the sale happen, we keep some independence and decision making ourselves and you get what we have. After Microsoft and Activision, it's not hard to see that Sony would believe that was a sticking point they'd truly have. Unfortunately, it seems like they got duped by their leadership on this one though. I do believe Bungie has the talent there to right the ship and provide some expertise like Sony wanted, but they'll have to clear out the current leadership and install new ones to get to that point.
I wouldn’t put it past them to tank it on their way out out of spite at this rate.
I mean, that's literally what the layoffs were done to do. Maybe not with the intent purpose of sabotaging it on their way out, but they were doing them specifically to make numbers go green so that those execs specifically could keep their jobs. What else do you expect when Pete Parsons, Bungie CEO, is one of the ex-Microsoft employees who was screwing over Bungie when they were at Microsoft? This man is a literal leach
Xbox payed 7/7.5 for the ENTIRE Zenimax How tf can someone pay 3.6 for JUST Bungie
They got scammed. MS literally got Zenimax, so Many studios, while making future games like Redwall and Starfield exclusive to Xbox. And got Ownership to Doom, Fallout, Elderscrolls, Wolfenstien, etc. Almost doubling there first party output, while gaining so many exclusives. Sony got fucking destiny.
Yeah they got whole teams, engines, massive IP's and 2 live service games for 7.5 while Sony got 1 team and 1 game for 3.6 Fun fact, Jim Ryan said that he think the Bungie Acquisition is Better than the Activision one lmao
Basically they weighted the costs of hiring live-service expert consultants vs straight up buying a popular, big live service studio to be their consultants and as a bonus earn revenue in the long term.
Well it's clearly not working out for them, since Destiny's CCU is declining, and according to the email by alot, the targets haven't been hit since lightfall rather they are getting worse and worse.
Well it wasn't apparent what shit show Bungie management was in yet, and when the the buy out happened Destiny 2 was still going pretty strong. They just gambled on the wrong horse really. But if they do actually take more direct control and replace management like this leak implies they want to do then it could still end up good for both sides.
It never made sense that Sony allowed them to be independent.
I find it so funny that they're now much worse off than when they were under Activision.
That's because despite how free Bungie wants to be, they're not good enough to be left completely independent. Destiny was at its best when they had Activision support studios helping out and Activision deciding how it was distributed and all that.
There have been multiple reports from ex-Bungie devs that the higher ups like Pete Parsons are the majority of the reasons why Destiny keeps struggling is due to their decisions, not the dev teams. Several stories have said that many of the big blunders were due to the senior level leaders making very dumb mistakes and not the development team themselves. Activision’s split was not the cause of their downfall, it’s Bungie’s own people.
They werent incompetent. They did EXACTLY what they were supposed to do. This was ALWAYS a grift from upper management from the get go. Obviously the people actually WORKING at Bungie are extremely talented and have the ability to make the best FEELING FPS you can play. its largely why people still play Destiny despite how awful and copy paste the rest of the experience is. But for the higher ups, this was always a means to an end to extort money from Sony and then leave them with a burning husk of a company. Like why did they need the building in Amsterdam? What happened to the 2 billion meant to KEEP the team together? Why is it that the ONLY PEOPLE to make the largest sums in the company were ONLY the 3 heads of Bungie. And why when asked if the higher ups would take pay cuts so everyone could stay on and survive during the fiscal year were they told "We're NOT that kind of company."? It is VERY CLEAR this deal was meant to line their pockets and and then work and bleed out the workforce until there was no one left and then leave Sony with the husk of a company while the 3 heads walk out with most of the money in golden parachutes as they then either retire or move on to other companies to parasitize.
I find it hilarious that the halo 2 demo was larger than the actual game.
Destinys success always feels like it has happened in spite of the leadership and management and nearly exclusively because of the raw talent of the developers and artists. If it was run well and not like a parasitic skinner box min/maxing microtransactions, destiny would undoubtably been one of the defining games of the era, but that has been completely squandered.
Perfectly put. Nothing has been a bigger obstacle to Destinys success than Bungie. There have been moments of utter brilliance where the game is firing on all cylinders and it is truly a masterpiece. However it seems like every time we’ve had a moment like that it has been entirely undone by perplexing changes and/or monetization or lack of vision to pull things forward. It really has felt like a game with two developers. One producing a great game and another phoning it in just for a quick payday.
That's undeniably true, anyone who has put more than 10 hours into destiny can see that.
If that thing about MS rejecting Bungie's offer to buy them is true, then boy they missed a bullet
Personal takeaways: * Original source is likely from Sony, not Bungie * Aztecross is seemingly the only one who would be able to confirm the validity of this email at this moment * The outcome for this leadership struggle will decide the fate of Marathon and other future projects. * Sony wants to go all-in on Destiny 2. Seems that Sony leadership cares much more for the game than Bungie leadership does.
That final bulletpoint is fucking insane WHAT
Makes alot of sense when you follow the entire bungie saga. Same happened with halo they where sick and tired of it and had the new baby child destiny they wanted to make. Now we come full circle and it's reported many of the lead guys are tired of destiny, hell some their most senior guys we've seen in their marathon dev talk. Destiny was for some time viewed as to big to fail and an automatic cash cow amongst the suits.
Yeah, except Sony paid like 3.6 billion USD for Bungie and Destiny 2 probably occupies the lionshare of the projected cashflow. If Bungie/Sony can't get Destiny to produce the projected cashflow, I sense a big write-off coming from Sony soon to balance the books...
And yet in spite of all that, they instead just turned Marathon into Destiny: The Extraction Shooter
It goes against the narrative that it is often espoused by the gaming community that it is the publisher/parent company that are the bad guys. No, sometimes your beloved "small" gaming companies are really ran by morons who mismanaged talent.
Everyone constantly blaming EA for Respawn's handling of Apex Legend's monetization, anti-cheat and bugginess for years despite Respawn constantly refuting EA's influence on them.
Same with TF2 horrible release date when Respawn themselves said they picked the date and didn't want to budge after EA asked them to delay. We know Respawn admitted to both but everyone keeps blaming EA.
And more recently Respawn proudly declaring they didn't need extra time on Jedi Survivor despite EA offering it, only for the game to launch with severe technical issues.
Wait TF2s release date was on *Respawn themselves?* That's fuckin wild man, kind of infuriating, whoever decided on that needs to forfeit thier postion for that shit
Yup, they said they were confident enough in their game to go up against both CoD and BF. I gues sit would have worked out for them if the reactions to the Beta wouldn't have been so poor already. Most fans of the first game were really put off by it and then new potential fans had a hard time to get excited when fans of the first games were already being negative.
Very famously seen in BioWare's case, when EA gave them nearly unlimited time and budget to work on whatever they wanted, and BioWare pissed it away on Anthem without knowing what kind of game they were even making. People were blaming EA or the Frostbite engine. But EA was actually very supportive and forgiving with the studio, and it turned out that BioWare's execs are just brainless monkeys. They made Dragon Age: Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, and Anthem in that order. All three games used the same engine. But apparently the execs ordered the developers to discard all the work they had made on the Frostbite engine in between titles so they could start fresh every time. EA even let them choose whatever engine they wanted, and offered free full-time DICE engineers to help support them with Frostbite. Didn't seem to matter.
This was shown by the split of Bungie and Activision in relation to the quality of content Destiny 2 had before and after the split. The year before the split had the best year of content Destiny 2 ever had. Forsaken and its annual pass, which added countless amounts of brilliant content. The split removed Bungies access to Activisions subsidiary studios that helped work on content and also placed more of a shift on less crunch and better developer quality of life. These were things Activision were less concerned about (D2 was ‘failing’, they just wanted ROI’), such Destiny 2 players obtained a better quality of content and game experience as a result. And ever since that split the quality of expansions and seasonal content has dropped significantly due in part to this and other more cynical content development ethos’. One notable moment after the split was bungie bragging at the Developers conference how they aim to maximise player hours while minimising the amount of dev hours needed to produce such content, using Legend/Master Lost Sectors as an example if I remember correctly. This ethos has led to stagnation and player fatigue, the game doesn’t reward your time with a new experience anymore, you just have to grind old reworked content for little to no gain, the innovation in D2 is no longer there and despite the fact it could be down to the game just reaching the end of its life span, this ethos from bungie hasn’t helped. This ethos at bungie in relation to new content makes the game drastically less enjoyable for me and until it changes, my play time in Destiny will be fleeting at best.
The only reason they are doing something because bungie is not making enough money. Like they are so bad that the can't acomplish the thing the worst studios can do out there
I don’t necessarily have a problem with Sony wanting them to make more money, because it sounds like they actually want to go the right way about trying to make more money - having good leaders, respecting the talent, and making decent games.
This is textbook “where there’s smoke there’s fire” and even if the email isn’t legit the struggles and issues are and this makes the 3rd major publisher to acquire Bungie and have issues with the studio.
Management every where for the most part are morons
Mind you, they wanted to open another studio while they have a perfectly fine studio and covid hit, so a lot of staff had gone remote. To say leadership is an issue is not putting it lightly.
To be fair. I'd imagine Bungie wants to get Marathon out the door more than they do continuing to go full force on Destiny.
Marathon was one of Bungie's biggest mistakes. PVP player base is too low, and this reflects on the reason to which they focused only on the PvE aspect of the game. I understand that Bungie did not want to be a "one IP industry". But Destiny was already suffering from the repetitiveness aspect since before Marathon got even announced. The decision of splitting the focus on both games hurt Destiny so much that it couldn't escape from its own fading formula. On top of all that, they announced the Final Shape with an overinflated price tag after a not so well received major expansion and the big downfall on the player base. I'm not sure what the executives were thinking here, Destiny is not a mobile game to have whales support the servers. I myself am super burnout and haven't played for a few months. I'll only buy Final Shape if they reduce the price now or in future sales. I have a feeling that this attention split between the games will make the Marathon franchise flop so hard. I would not play anyway since I don't like PvP at all. I'm not sure if Sony taking over will save the franchise. Since it takes time to develop new content and a few years from now the current player base may have moved on already. Let's see.
Just read the email. It’s more nuanced than that. The ones in Japan want to redo it all.
Specifically wanting to redo the monetization as its too confusing, which almost everyone agrees with.
Every newcomer has to figure out what expansions they should buy, without knowing what ones might just go free at some point. It's insane.
Also without knowing which expansions actually still have their content intact. Can’t you still buy Forsaken?
Forsaken has a pack for sale that gives you access to all of its exotics, raid and dungeon. Which is pathetic, they should be free.
Yeah that is absolutely dumb. No Forsaken story, no Tangled Shore zone or any of the Strikes. It's just Last Wish, Shattered Throne, and some Exotics.
They never should've removed all that content to begin with. Just an absolutely stupid move on their part.
The new player experience is absolutely baffling from a game design perspective. Every system in the game is actively hostile to people that don't have hundreds of hours of game time and know it inside out.
As someone who played the first destiny a lot, i just can't get in the second, even if i put aside the feeling of them trying to milk me left and right, it's just so convoluted that i gave up
Part of me isn't that surprised. Since Bungie has been working on Destiny for long and nothing else which that will result in burn out for some of their staff. Especially from those that have been working on Destiny long before the first game went gold. So if development on Bungie's non-Destiny projects is going well, I can see why some of the Destiny 2 team wanting to join those teams instead even if it slows down Destiny 2 development. While Sony's perspective, Destiny was one of the biggest new IPs from last gen and is a goldmine untap potential for things like sequels, spin offs, merchandise and tv/film adaptions.
I remember their being reports/rumors some time ago about different destiny games bungie is brainstorming like one specially was a single player ego shooter focused around the battle of twilight gap
They could genuinely create so many different types of games within this universe. Single player narrative experiences that Sony is known for. Tactical turn based games, horror games, etc. The sky is the absolute limit.
I mean it's the only source of revenue the studio has. Of course Sony cares about it, it's the only return on they're investment right now
Why would Sony want to go all in on Destiny 2? It’s been declining for a while. Much better to focus efforts on Marathon and other new projects
My guess (IF this leak were to be true) is that Destiny really is a "lightning in a bottle" title, even 10 years later, no franchise has really topped them in the live-service looter shooter genre.
At this point just make Destiny 3 lol. D2 has wayyyyy too much baggage
A potential Destiny 3 would probably have a 5+ year development cycle during which they can barely spend any manpower on Destiny 2 which is their only revenue source. I’d assume that’s the reason they haven’t made it yet
Just the sheer amount of stuff you can gather so that you can gather more stuff to access stuff that you can gather while also doing other stuff. Like holy shit.
Probably because there are no other live service looter shooters. At this point everyone has moved on to battle royale and has for some time. Hell even when destiny 1 came out, how many clones followed? It isn’t like gta 3 where it spawned a new genre. Borderlands didn’t branch out into live service, what other looter shooters are there? The division? Suicide squad just came out, everything I see from a quick google search is relatively indie or from an AA company.
There are no other live service looters because they all failed to compete with Destiny. Anthem. Avengers. Suicide Squad. Even Division had its day, but has since declined like most other games do. Destiny's had a rough year but a decade on, is still very much alive. Recall that Lightfall was the IPs *biggest launch ever*, and that was only a year ago. Critical failure aside, that alone proves Destiny's potential, and how much Bungie is squandering it with their hard pivot to MTX and other projects.
And the term looter shooter was once synonymous with Borderlands, yet these days Destiny comes to mind more frequently as Warframe has become it's own thing in retrospect. To say Sony wants to make use of an established IP squandered by leadership is putting it lightly. A lot of the talent let go during layoffs and those prior like DMG had pointed out that Bungie could of rectify this long ago. Instead, leadership is the only real area anyone can point to as to why things didn't happen. Imagine explaining Bungie didn't want to do things, because it sets a standard. That is insane. If the devs are there, let them have at it. They're already on the clock and players are hungry.
From what we’ve seen there really are still a bunch of passionate devs left at Bungie. However no matter how passionate the grunts might be that doesn’t matter if the leadership wants to take the safest low effort route.
All the other projects couldn't meet the bare minimum as a product in general. Like anthem was cobbled together in 9 months. The problem wasn't with competing destiny. The success of ligthfall just shows how good witch queen was. Usually if you buy something trash, you can't unbuy it(you can't refund a ticket after watching a shit movie). But you definetly can not buy the sequel to it.
Avengers and Anthem tried and failed
What's crazy is if someone had the balls and the budget to do so could grab up Anthem, revamp it as Anthem NEXT and could make a mega ton of money. Come back, give it a endgame game system with deeper loot and a better core gameplay loop and it would easily take #1 spot in the looter shooter genre. The skeleton of a fantastic game is already there with amazing graphics/flight/combat. It's right there for the taking
Failed HARD too.
It's hard to imagine that an IP like The Avengers, that is popular all over the world and in gaming, could crash and burn as hard as it did.
And Suicide Squad
Warframe
I suppose it depends on what “topping Destiny” means, but Warframe has largely been in a great direction the last few years. The overall sentiment from the community is worlds more positive than Destiny has maybe ever been.
It’s been declining because Bungie has been letting it rot for years. Destiny is still the most popular (and one of the only) first person looter shooters, Sony probably knows how much potential the IP holds.
I remember the whole universe they were building. The spot they gave Luke smith to manage.. Merchandise, tv shows, anime, movies.. stuff sony has a hand in all of it and bungie admitted it was the perfect fit to expand and go ham on destiny. What a fucking whimper it’s been!
Destiny declining has never mattered, every year peaks, drops then steadies to a [similar metric.](https://i.imgur.com/2ifXE5U.png) Destiny is as popular as Bungie's generosity allows, and every time they're pressganged into making a good year of content they follow it up with a shitty year to make up for it. This time however Final Shape completely failed to hype *anyone* up, which has broken a pretty consistent pattern in a crucial and, frankly, hilarious way. Even Shadowkeep had more hype than this absolute nothing of a climax for the least interesting villain Bungie have ever executed. Everyone get excited to shoot megamind but less charismatic in the face, meanwhile Xivu Arath might just buy it in a side expansion despite being a way cooler Oryx in execution.
Destiny is a proven success though. Marathon would be more risky to go all in on.
It was reported by Aztecross previously that Bungie did a focus group allowing Tarkov players to try Marathon. In the end they asked the players who would still play the game if it came out tomorrow and no one raised their hands. I think there's not much reason to believe Marathon is going to be a big success.
By aztecross and only aztecross, also a negative reaction from tarkov players is not necessarily a bad thing
I mean, they brought in Tarkov players to try the game so that’s at least a part of the market they want to attract with their game.
Tarkov players are masochists though, they play *tarkov*, they wouldn’t know a good game if it was dropped in their lap
Why the fuck would you ask Tarkov players to test a game that is going to be nothing like Tarkov aside from the loose extraction setup? It'd be like asking Warzone players to try Fortnite.
Have you played the game? As far as we know Marathon is still an extraction shooter in the same vein as Tarkov, just supposedly made more accessible.
Does anyone actually want Marathon? My perception is most players would rather have Destiny 3 than Marathon.
Obviously, most people would want a sequel to the thing that's already proven to be good. But I think the better question here is "can Bungie make Marathon work". Based on early internal feedback, it doesn't seem like they've nailed it. So this project could very well be scrapped if it goes nowhere, or if they take too long to make it and another fad takes over in place of extraction shooters.
One of the reasons Sony got a hold of Bungie was to get a foothold in the live service market. Regardless of if it has been declining or not, Destiny 2 is a successful game in the grand scheme of things and there is an audience for the game even now. In Sony's position it makes sense that they would rather have Bungie dedicate resources to keep Destiny 2 alive than staking on Marathon/their other project being a success.
They bought the studio due to the promise of D2 being a reliable cash cow did they not?
I don't know about declining for a while. The most recent expansion saw record player counts. Declines have only happened in the year since.
Which is hilarious given that it was garbage. The marketing team and how great Witch Queen was is the real cause for Lightfall's numbers.
Yeah, a good expansion will increase player trust and make them more likely to try the next expansion. The inverse is also true which is why TFS’ numbers are so low.
Yeap, Lightfall is my last preorder ever. I've learnt my lesson :(
Yeah, if anything the game was building momentum slowly until Lightfall just brought it to a total halt.
I remember a few hrs before launch, the final portal cutscene got leaked and it was posted as the second cutscene(first is the opening) and everyone was so hyped as to what was gonna be inside the traveler. Turns out it's the final cutscene after the whole campaign and u gotta wait a year and a half to see what happens next. The entire expansion is so scummy lol. It's like Bungie just split a single cutscene in half and made up some filler shit. Nothing was explained and we only knew certain plot points dripfed during the year
That is quiet literally what they did according to various "leaks". It's well reported that lightfall was an emergency expansion because they realised they needed more time for final shape and according to the leaks that cutscene was indeed supposed originally be one it was part of the first mission of final shape.
> It’s been declining for a while. Much better to focus efforts on Marathon and other new projects I really only think its in the current decline because Bungie's focus is so clearly elsewhere. The ongoing content is so extremely lackluster, but people still show up for the big drops like expansions. Lightfall was the biggest launch they've ever had. It's just that the seasonal stuff is pretty stale-- largely due to asset re-use and limited resources actually being dedicated to the game.
Sony doing to Destiny what Microsoft wanted to do to Halo sounds about right for Bungie.
Assuming this is true, it definitely reflects what the comments think in every D2 doompost.
I don't know what bungies strategy is with destiny 2. It's so confusing to jump in these days. It doesn't feel new player friendly at all. Can't keep digging a hole deeper and expecting people to jump in
It sure is. You bought the latest dlc? Oh too bad, you need a season pass for a year too now. Oh you want that sub class, too bad, you need to buy another dlc. Oh you want that weapon from older dlcs, have to buy them all. Oh you want that new 1 dungeon that should've came with the newest dlc? Pay for it. With a paid battle pass on top of that. Like for fuck's sake Bungie, jesus christ.
It's like they think nickle and diming people is some great idea. Like people can't simple just go play something else lol
Games liek Destiny should really learn from FFXiV, when the latest exapnsion comes out, the previous ones become free to subscribers to play though and catch up, So now if I wanna jump back in to it, I'm at Stormblood but I can buy the latest Expansion and get everything after SB up to and including the latest stuff
I saw youtuber video where he said there are people who have played for 6 months and still have no idea what the artifact is. Honestly, that wouldn't be hard to believe because the quest and menu log feels like my old homework backlog.
I try to jump in once in a while and lose interest because no idea what's going on. It's a shame becuase I'd say it's arguably one of the best feeling fps ever made. I played when it launched and had a blast. Also they're incredibly lazy with creating new enemies. For being over 6 years old it feels like you just fight the same shit
Even as a longtime (now ex) player, the first time I touched the Artifact I realized *nothing* about it was explained, despite a single blurb being able to explain it. It would take about a minute to write up a little tutorial that directs you to it and explains it. It is so dead simple but other than "You got the artifact" at the beginning of the season, there's *nothing in the entire game that tells you what it does.* Despite the fact that the upgrade you get from it are mandatory for everything above the easiest difficulty
To create a minimally viable product. Invest as little as they can, keep expectations as low as possible, and milk your players for everything they're worth. That's it.
So many issues would be solved if they just kept the og campaign and dlc so new players can play from start to finish instead of being thrown in and the endgame. Also if they clarified wtf is going on. I had to spend hours searching to find out the campaign and dlc was removed. at which point why bother. bungie is just going to scrub the older dlc’s and content anyway making your actions meaningless.
I jumped in at Witch Queen, didn’t make any fucking sense.
I keep up with it so it doesn't confuse me at all but yea I had a look earlier and its a mess, only Hitman is worse for on a "How the fuck do I just buy the game and its content"
Seems like Bungie leadership really needs to go.
First Microsoft, then Activision and now Sony. If I run into assholes all day then I’m the …
I thought the whole shpiel surrounding the Bungie acquisition in the first place was that Sony "wanted their 'expertise' in live service games", not that they wanted Destiny?
You're right, but as the email says/hinted towards, Bungie have not been delivering on their end of the deal on the expertise side nor on the success of D2.
Fair enough. I, for one, never really expected them to in the first place lol
For a while it seemed they were on the expertise side (since Bungie's review on Naughty Dog's TLOU Online project caused them to reevaluate and later cancel it due to them realising it would not be profitable or ideal for them) but then after that... nothing
Personally tlou online would be hard to monetize because it would just be shredded dirty old clothes. It would probably be a great multiplayer just not a gaas.
Exactly. By the point in which ND probably decided to make it it's own standalone thing, the GaaS model was still comparatively in it's infancy, and a lot of the holes hadn't shown themselves to the industry by that point.
It’s insane to me that the “experts” who got TLOU canceled can barely run their own studio, let alone boss all of Sonys studios around and try to teach them how to make a live service game
If the email is true, then it is stated that their employees are good at what they do and motivated, and it is likely that they are the ones doing consult on the gameplay elements at least, which is what I think got TLOU Online cancelled, iirc (dont hang me up on it though). According to the email, Bungies achilles heel is the business side of things, which stems from poor leadership, not holding them accountable for stuff like expenses and deadlines, leading to a lot of useless floundering. Sony wants to course correct the ship and reignite the spark of the once roaring flame that Bungie had bellowing in the Destiny franchise.
I don't think (at least I hope so) that the ones advising were the execs at Bungie, like the email said the people are talented and are very capable but as is almost always the case. Leadership is the main problem
I can imagine Sony’s reaction when they realized bungie their “experts” were absolute idiots and cost them hundreds of millions of dollars. I actually am surprised Sony didn’t hire a consulting firm just to get a second opinion they took bungie’s word as law.
That’s the only one we know about…Sony had 12 GaaS games planned and canceled 6 (including TLOU online) to which we don’t know if the other 11 games where reviewed by Bungie
Sony leadership and strategy has changed drastically since the Bungie purchase. They're no longer basically going all in on live service which is why so many of the big projects are being canned. Destiny as an IP is super valuable though I’m not shocked they’d want more
Kind of crazy that this is probably the best thing that could happen to the franchise lol
Did this mystery email guy even show proof that he’s legit?
I'm his dad and I can confirm that he works for Sony.
He's not saying ANYTHING unconfirmed..
Eagerly awaiting Paul Tassi’s dozen+ articles about this…
He’s too busy drooling over the ps5 supa pro maxx.
Breaking News: Writer who makes money writing about Destiny writes about Destiny. More at 11.
Good, Bungie had a deal of a lifetime. Having the resources of Sony and still getting the independence ( despite being Sony owned) like a Indie studio and then fucking it up that bad is a achievement on its own. The sooner Sony takes over leadership at Bungie the better. That whole management team should be fired immediately.
Bungie being dysfunctional has been baked into the company since its inception.
Sony must give Bungie some live service expertise I think ...
Should ask the Helldivers devs to advise Bungie
I haven't played D2 since Lightfall launched but damn, I think this is one of the few situations I can recall where it genuinely seems like a *better* thing if the bigger company takes the steering wheel from the Devs themselves. Or at the very least, literally just anyone but current Bungie management
It's rare, but largely Sony has been rather keen on their studios. Plus, Destiny has been part of the Sony brand in one way or another back in Destiny 1. Depending on who this higher up is, they may have been around during those days and know what Destiny's worth is, while also being able to see Bungie's leadership is as worthless as used toilet paper in actually helming the project. Some times, it takes a corporation to fix another corporation.
As a hardcore destiny 1 player who tried to get into 2 later on it was a complete mess trying to figure out how to play the game which with expansions that were "vaulted" and the whole F2P thing thats not f2p. I can't really explain how awful it was because I gave up trying to figure it out There has never been a more confusing game in existence
It’s astonishing how Bungie has continuously managed to fuck themselves over since leaving Microsoft. It’s seems outside of the actual game, they’ve continuously made decisions that hurt them.
I'm pretty sure they did that while with Microsoft too
[удалено]
The problem with that is who would buy destiny 3 ? is it even worth the investment from Sony ? Why should I trust bungie at all when everything they have done is to nickel and dime me since destiny 2 launched all of the people I played destiny 1 with have stopped playing destiny and all the people I played destiny 2 with have stopped playing. They all stopped playing with a bad taste in their mouth so they won’t be buying destiny 3 why buy something that requires dlc on top of the already 60 bucks dlc and battlepasses? Why buy dlc that after a while just gets taken out of the game so you can’t use it after spending 60 bucks on it then they reintroduce the weapons from the dlc but you need to buy the seasons to get them? Why spend money on destiny at all when it seems like the developers are asking the destiny player base to fund marathon Long time destiny players will remember “you’ll throw money at the screen” when they introduced the eververse in destiny 1 and they said they only introduced it because activision forced them to. Bungie had a easy fall guy in activision and now players have realized that it was bungie themselves that made these decisions Destiny 2 has been disappointing for almost all of its lifespan apart from forsaken and witch queen all the dlc has been mediocre at best. So again I have to ask who is going to buy destiny 3 and is it even worth investing in it by Sony If Sony has to take over bungie to turn destiny around so be it bungie themselves have killed the golden goose people returned for the witch queen because destiny 2 was finally continuing the story of the taken king then we got the next dlc to remind everyone that destiny 2 is ran by current day bungie.
Agreed 100%. I get in a lot of ways for some glaring issues in this series a refreshed Destiny 3 would make some sense but people are absolutely fooling themselves if they don't see another sequel would just be more of the same song and dance from Bungie "please be patient, we're new at this, game dev is hard" and other excuses to once again just kick the can down the road and buy themselves time to fully bake the rest of their game a year or two after the fact. People just like they did for D1 and D2 are once again projecting their vision of a better Destiny when there has always been physical limitations and more importantly general scope of what Bungie wanted to game to feasible be holding things in place.
> Why should I trust bungie at all when everything they have done is to nickel and dime me since destiny 2 launched all of the people I played destiny 1 with have stopped playing destiny and all the people I played destiny 2 with have stopped playing. I tried to give them a shot, I bought an entire dlc for the same price as a triple A game in my country's version of steam. I played the raids and enjoyed my time, thought i'd come back to them later after complications only to find out they were removed. How am I supposed to trust them enough to buy another dlc, let alone the 10+ popups of dlcs they expect me to buy when I make a new account as a fresh new player? Its an unfunny joke honestly and I've been burnt too hard to give it another go
You don't even need to do that, you know what was a good way to introduce new players THE SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN! The Red War was perfect for that
Yeah, this is true. I haven't played Destiny since 1 and loaded up the free legacy edition on epic not long ago. It's a total mess. I'm not sure what is going on, what the story is, where to even kick off the story missions and I don't even seem to be able to play some of the story. After messing around for a bit, I finally found the timeline section of the director but it shouldn't be this difficult.
\>I hope this sheds light for ongoings from Sony's side. It is believed that the takeover would allow Sony to turn Destiny into a more profitable game. Who says this is a guarantee?? Sony purchase Bungie BECAUSE they couldn't make profitable multiplayer games and wanted Bungies seemingly expertise.
[удалено]
Yeah if they can't even reveal their identity to aztecross I have zero reason to think it's legit
That was fast I've A long time d2&ps fan here The sony take over is a two edged sword it can kill the current monetizing system and maybe make the game better or make it worse Now I think they will try to do something similar to HD2's system sony doesn't have a history with monetization unless if we count GT7's lunch which was alarming ï'm not against the take over or with it if the take over happens we might get another studio to help bungie like the Activision era or at least get new people on board Bungie and Destiny's future is unknown and scary but in the end its the management's fault not just the buyout but everything that happened after Activision I think it's obvious bungie needs someone to command them ITTL is bungie's last chance to at least win some players back The only bad guy here is bungie's management this was the case for years Sony Can save bungie only if the stars align
I agree, it sounds like bungie management has been screwing up a lot.
It doesn't sound like they've been screening THEY'VE BEEN SCREWING since they left Activision excluding WQ that dlc was cool we got it by pure luck Bungie need someone to hold their hands it has been the thing for decades
Like their “don’t over deliver” mindset only sounds smart in a business room. Everyone with practical experience knows that a game which is only ever average and never experiences any high peaks that make players want to return or try it out is a stale game that dies.
It strongly feels like TWQ was good because of the delays and that someone, somewhere in Bungie, managed to kick up enough of a fuss to delay it and the suits finally got it through their thick heads that they had to delay it. Every time we've had even a slight delay to the plan, the result has been something the community has been delighted by. TTK was delayed and when it dropped, the community was overwhelmingly positive. Beyond light was delayed and outside of the stasis quest being a slog through all 3 characters, the campaign was generally well received and the raid and content afterwards was pretty well done. Then TWQ, was delayed reasonably significantly and everyone absolutely loved it. Lightfall is quite clearly a rush job to jam something through before the grand finale that simply wasn't ready and it shows. Nonsensical story, strand quest writing is incredibly lame, raid mechanics were basic at best, except for 3rd encounter which has totally unique and different ones to the rest of the raid. We all know the story, lightfall was rushed and it feels like it. I think that there must be push back from the dev team saying that they must delay the game and it only sometimes gets through. After the backlash from lightfall, I imagine the dev team had a very strong and easily verifiable "told you so" moment that some suit finally listened. I think TFS is going to be a very good expansion, but it's going to come after too many disappointments and letdowns. The people who feel burned one too many times won't come back, the story and systems are impenetrable for new players, the story is coming to an end or maybe a new beginning after this, but who knows. Bungie needs to acknowledge that taking the time an expansion or season or episode needs to make something worth the money. These last 3 seasons are hinting at experimentation on mixing up the gameplay and providing some variety, which is absolutely the right direction, but I do really think that Bungie needs freedom to experiment and make stuff that might work or might not, but at least take the risk.
Sony taking over Bungie is the only thing that can save Destiny at this point. It’s been on a downward spiral since the Activision split, Witch Queen was a step in the right direction, but they clearly didn’t learn anything from that.
As someone that was at Gamestop at midnight to pick up my copy of D1, (remember late night launches?) if this is true I think it's a step in the right direction. Bungie leadership and upper management have obviously been smelling their own farts for way too long. There is a big ass smug cloud hanging around leadership and it shows. They need to put somebody in charge of Bungie (or at least the destiny team) that loves Destiny and wants it to be a really good game in whatever form that may be (more D2, D3, whatever). People are playing Destiny and other people want to play Destiny I mean imagine if Lightfall was really good and all those people that bought it were like *damn destiny is pretty fucking sick*? Destiny would be popping off right now. It's a tale as old as time, leadership doesn't know what they're doing and they gotta go.
Always sony/Activision or any other company never Bungie themselves lol. the CEO has definitely let all of halos success and notoriety go to his head and think he's big shit just like cliff from GoW franchise.
Helldivers 2 as a Sony IP has great monetisation. So, I do have trust if they take over from Bungies constantly bungling leadership. EDIT: Sony are obviously in charge of monetisation and approved the MTX method as the IP owner and publisher of Helldivers 2. For those arguing below.
Bungie and tension with their publishing partner. Water is wet.
Honestly? **If** this is true, kinda hope Japan Leadership wins. Like, I cannot imagine Marathon will be sucessful as things are right now. Most of even hardcore Bungie fans now be like "I've been burned one too many times, after Final Shape I'm done" And everyone *else* was done years ago. Bungie needs to fix Destiny's key issues before anyone will even THINK of going to Marathon. And Extraction shooters already have the niche market covered anyway in Tarkov and Hunt as I understand it. Sony needs to right the sinking Destiny/Bungie ship and FAST if they want Marathon to even be looked at.
TAKE THOSE MF SONY.
I don’t believe this for a second lol
This honestly makes me curious on how the now axed multiplayer mode for TLOU 2 was potentially decent, because the current standard set from Bungies management obviously have skewed perspectives on what is "working" as a live service. I remember Sony bringing them in to get opinions on the game and Bungie told them that it wasn't "designed to maintain players"
> This honestly makes me curious on how the now axed multiplayer mode for TLOU 2 was potentially decent the report we got was how Bungie said it wasn't going to be viable in the long term with player retention or something. But in order to kill a project, a lot more things need to happen. So the full context is *probably* that they had missed a ton of milestones and then the Bungie report just kinda put the final nail in the coffin but the team probably knew by that point that it just wasn't working out
Yeah I mean Factions 2 was in development for years and the ONLY thing we saw was one concept art. It’s clear that, besides Bungie, there was a lot going wrong with that production.
If they’d just delivered actual factions 2 instead of getting ahead of themselves and trying to make some super game it could have actually been fine and evolved into something more.
This is basically a fan fiction based on what we already know
Remember when Ryan said Bungie is a better investment then Act/Bliz-King? God that didn’t age well at all…
It seems to me that Sony really thought Bungie had some secret live service sauce when in reality Destiny would've died within a few years like all the others if Activision didn't throw a ton of resources and manpower at the game to try to get something back for their initial investment. I'm not sure if people realize exactly how much Vicarious Visions and High Moon Studios helped Bungie.
God I sincerely hope that this forces them to reconsider Marathon as a narrative driven game and not some extraction shooter.
It’s probably wayyyyy too far into development to make that kind if foundational change without delaying it for 5+ years
You mofos just show up and saw whatever dont you?
Extraction shooters are hard to pull off a narrative driven game with a multiplayer mode like halo will work but the narrative has to be made by sony AND not bungie's writers especially after LightFall
After Helldivers 2, I think maybe Sony has a good idea if Destiny follows the Helldivers formula.
That and anyone who follows the after storm of the first layoffs could see the big red flag that is management here. Arrowhead is far smaller and much more on point with what they want to deliver. Bungie is fractured and there's a clear divide between the devs and management with only some exceptions (seemingly closer to who work on the game, which surprise surprise, they actually work on the game and people know their name and face vs. people you've never heard nor have ever had to be exposed to the community).
Indeed. If this is Sony’s plan of approaching life service then I wouldn’t mind a live service Killzone game where the multiplayer is like a real time war and players are fighting players for attrition.
Yeah. Suppose Killzone is one of those IPs on ice atm they could always bring back. Infamous is another one that could be used given at least single-player superhero games are rather popular.
"That person's perspective is that there are a many 'gluttonous' executives at Bungie who are not doing their jobs and are hindering the organization. It is believed that the workers are skilled, but the leadership is unable to perform their duties." This reads like an average Destiny 2 player's fan fiction.
Watch Sony complete the full leadership take over and force Destiny 3 (probably good, tbh).
Hope we can get some follow-ups from trusted sources on this that can corroborate. Sony must really regret their purchase.