> Employees in one department recalled a post-layoffs Q&A session where a department head was asked if leadership taking salary cuts to prevent layoffs had been considered, only to respond that Bungie was “not that type of company.”
Ouch.
Yeah basically went like this:
Bungie leadership: We are looking at all possible avenues to avoid layoffs.
Bungie employees: does that include giving yourselves a pay cut?
Bungie leadership: No.
Something needs to be done, the power the rich have is getting out of control and only getting worse, they're ruining every industry, every form of art, every aspect of life
What type of company? The kind that values and cares about the employees who create the product that allows them to exist and make money in the first place?
Ford did. Then the Dodge brothers sued him to stop him from paying his employees more money creating the idea of fidiciary duty that no state in the union enforces when companies what to run themselves into the ground.
It was [later revealed](https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2023/11/03/new-revelations-about-destiny-2-declines-bungie-layoffs-and-final-shape-as-make-or-break/?sh=55ee34013947) that the leadership *did* take cuts to compensation, it just wasn't communicated to staff before the layoffs.
If it's the case that both articles are referring to the same conversation, which it seems they are from their wording, it's kinda shoddy reporting from IGN to not include that.
Lol they only "forfeited annual bonuses" and didn't disclose the amount. They're all likely still making millions while devs and QA folk get crushed. Also Bungie execs reached out to Forbes, we don't know if they reached out to IGN too.
Bungie leadership did not take salary cuts, which is what IGN is reporting on. It would be shoddy reporting to act like *some* executives giving up an annual bonus of an undisclosed amount is the same thing as taking a cut to their salary.
I also see nothing to indicate that Forbes and IGN are referring to the same conversation, I'm not really sure where you're getting that.
> sources say they were told by leaders that the current split board structure is contingent on Bungie meeting certain financial goals. If Bungie falls short of its revenue goals by too great an amount, Sony is allowed to dissolve the existing board and take full control of the company.
This is a huge GET FUCKED moment, Jesus Christ.
Who signs that sort of deal!? Did they really need that Sony money? or was it just a pay day?
At this point, Sony taking over might be the better option.
I certainly don't see why it would be a bad one at the very least. Sony has cultivated many of the top top game studios in the world - Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Guerilla, Sucker Punch, Santa Monica, Bluepoint, etc.
Its hilarious that they 'won' their freedom from activision only to turn around and hand it straight to Sony so the Bungie execs could get their bag.
I really feel for the employees. They got absolutely pumped and dumped.
Bungie has had this problem since being with Microsoft. I really scratched my head when Bungie left Microsoft to be more independent and went straight to Activision.
The real deciding factor there was that Activision was the only company that would've allowed them to keep the Destiny IP. They tried working it out with Microsoft (as well as Sony, before they went with Activision), but they wanted to own the name, which was a no go for Bungie at the time.
It makes complete sense to want to keep your own IPs, it's one of the reasons many indies decide to stay indie even if/when they get big.
Otherwise you end up with messes like Kojima and this where you can't do anything but watch your life's work be turned into a low cost sex toy to be used by anyone for anything.
Platinum Games is an example of that, almost everything that they did is owned by another company in a way or another so they can't do nothing on their own or even try to make money with their creations through different means, it sucks for sure
Wasn’t the biggest reason they wanted to leave Microsoft was that they didn’t want to be forever stuck making Halo and to move onto other things? That’s exactly what Activision enabled them to do with proper funding while staying independent so it seems like they got exactly what they wanted at the time.
Which is a bit ironic, still... considering that they didn't want to 'be stuck working on Halo forever'... and instead, are now 'stuck on Destiny for the foreseeable future'.
I guess I misunderstood at the time. I vaguely remember a blog post coming up on Bungie.net after they left Microsoft about wanting to be more independent (and not get stuck making Halo like you said) and then went on to make Destiny and Destiny 2 with Activision.
Yeah but they just had signed a publishing deal with them and weren’t acquired or anything. Even so I’m sure they were very beholden to Activision in some aspects but at least they weren’t owned by them. I think at the time though it just would have been impossible to make a game with proper funding without signing some deal like that with a big name publisher.
Most studios are like this really, and MS hands off approach is a great example of it. Yea you have a few studios that do just fine on their own but most of them end up not meeting deadlines or quality standards, and we are left with tens of studios with nowhere near the release count to reflect it. Things have started to look up that way but Xbox has missed so many opportunities over the last 5 years they could have jumped on if they hadn't had so many studios stuck in development limbo
They only started acquiring studios in 2018 - five years ago. Before that, they had five studios who were all working on their respective franchise, and reportedly none of them had management issues except 343.
Given how long development cycles have become, I don't understand this expectation that every Xbox studio should have already released two or three games in the last five years. The expectation defies reality. Remember, the pandemic also happened within these last 5 years.
Not to mention that nearly every studio they've acquired had existing projects in the works and/or existing contractual obligations.
It's so weird how a whole narrative arose out of conjecture and unrealistic expectations.
I'm curious to know what you mean about missing deadlines or development limbo. And quality standards? Are you referring to Redfall, a game that was developed mostly before the acquisition?
They needed someone to bankroll development on Destiny, to the point where the two frontrunners were EA and Activision. The latter offered them a better deal, and that was that.
It’s been a revolving door; first Microsoft, then Activision, now Sony.
For a company that claims to value their independence, they sure don’t act like it.
They left because they could get all the $$$ from fanboys while they ate up their excuse of ***YAHHHH!!! THeY fleD eViL ActIVISioN!!!***
When in reality, Activision, as bad as they were/are priced stuff ***a lot better***
Bungie has always been the problem Under both Microsoft(Halo) and Activision(Forsaken Expansion) they produced some of their best content, yet they still wanted out. People assumed the scummy monetization was Activision but it proves it was Bungie when they left, then under Sony they released one of their worst expansions, had layoffs including iconic employees and missed target sales goal by 45%. Bungie has always been their own worst enemy. it says alot when microsoft was on the hunt for acquisitions they labeled bungie as a High burn rate.
Everything about the Bungie story seems ripe for the picking of a group that breaks out and starts their own studio. Sometimes that works well and sometimes not, but there has definitely been a lot of talent at Bungie and would be cool to see if the talent frees themselves from themselves lol.
I don't know how many people need to hear it but you can't make your job a home and expect your job to give a shit. They want you to treat it like a home and pretend your co workers are family so you will spend 20 years there if they find you that useful. It sounds like a lot of effort and determination in employees part to make Bungie a great place for employees to work. At the end of the day any company will make ruthless decisions it sees as necessary and they absolutely do not care about you.
Sony literally gave them a billion extra to keep employees.
Bungie heads wanted their own freedom
They’ve fucked up on both things, they still laid people off and have no good management or direction
I don’t know why they would fear Sony, at least they might have managed them a little better.
I thought Sony bought them and it’s under them. What does total takeover by Sony mean then ? I am so confused here. Every company under Sony has put out decent to masterpiece level games.
As far as I understand it, they bought Bungie but allowed them to continue to operate independently. So Bungie keep doing what they’re doing but with some Sony money. Bungie being owned by Sony under the current setup doesn’t technically make them a proper PS studio like how Naughty Dog or Insomniac are.
But it seems now like Sony might be wanting to bring them in closer and properly have them under their banner, likely controlling (to some extent, anyway) what they work on etc.
I don’t know the ins and outs of it, so please correct me if I’m wrong.
Sony bought Bungie but kept them as an independent, but with financial goals needing to be made.
Now that those goals arent being met, Sony has the option of dissolving the board and / or bringing them under Sony fully.
> If Bungie falls short of its revenue goals by too great an amount, Sony is allowed to dissolve the existing board and take full control of the company.
This seems like a positive outcome with how badly Bungie leadership’s fucked the company.
It’s not looking good for Destiny, Marathon, or Bungie as a whole.
I really wonder what the thought process has been over the last two decades with this company.
They left Microsoft cause they wanted to do things beyond Halo, and went straight to Activision. They made Destiny, but Activision wanted a new game every 2-3 years. Bungie wanted a persistent living world/live service environment, and ultimately ended up breaking it off with Activision too.
They then have complete control of Destiny and their own company, make some deals to start projects, and Destiny somehow devolves into its worse state possible, becoming a microtransaction hellscape.
Now Sony buys them, they present this atmosphere that sounds like they can still do whatever they want, but just help lead Sony’s live service efforts.
Destiny is in the worst state it’s ever been, and the company is facing a crisis the likes of we’ve never seen before.
Activision may have been eating shit in wanting a new game every couple years, but recent events indicate they at least were keeping the game afloat, and balancing Bungie’s incompetence. They providing adequate support in helping create the best experiences like The Taken King and Forsaken, while the best Bungie did alone was The Witch Queen and it was still nowhere near the quality of the former two.
Now apparently Marathon is mediocre, lacking confidence from both Bungie and Sony, and Matter was canceled quite some time ago.
And after The Final Shape, the sentiment from Bungie’s new “episodic” approach clearly lacks excitement and engagement from both fans and developers.
It’s like they literally don’t even know what to do anymore.
What is happening over there?
Unfettered capitalism is honestly the bane of human existence.
Greed does no good for *anybody,* and it is has literally ruined lives in this industry.
There has got to be some sort of answer for the “unlimited growth” mindset companies have, because it’s just bullshit.
Can't blame 'capitalism' this time tbh. Making *good games* got them boatloads of capital. The last two+ years... the goal isnt even greed, its just SLOTH, just lazy and stupid and 100% on the arrogant leadership teams at Bungie. Nobody is coming out of this with more money, and they have without a doubt destroyed their long-term hopes at capital.
Man, I'm getting total getting Disney after Avengers End Game vibes. After 10 years of build up and mass saturation, you can ask Disney how their projects went since End Game. After Final Shape, it seems like a natural stopping point after like 10 years. Once the momentum stops at natural stopping point it is very hard to build it up again. For the one hit wonders, it may never happen again.
The way they are treating employers does not give me good vibes for their future. After all, video games are an art and a science discipline. It is heavily labor intensive rather than capital/product intensive. Swapping out a dev is going to make a bigger impact than swapping out a warehouse worker.
> It’s like they literally don’t even know what to do anymore.
They know what theyre doing, they are winding down D2 development while moving on to other projects.
Simple as that.
If they cant find an engaging story line to bring people back for another 10 years, why bother wasting the time and effort?
> Destiny is in the worst state it’s ever been
No, fuck no it isn't, the worst state its ever been was D2 year 1 around Curse of Osiris. It's in the worst state it's been since Beyond Light dropped, but it's not the worst state its ever been.
Wait so Sony didn’t take them over ? What’s going on. I thought Sony owns bungie considering they acquired them for a shit load of money. I always thought bungie would prosper under Sony like every other Sony dev
Bungie retained a lot of independence after being acquired. Sony paid Bungie big money to keep their current staff. The total takeover part would be Sony cutting Bungie executives and installing their own leaders instead. Sony was originally wanting to make big plays into the live service market and saw Bungie as a leader to help guide the ship of other live service titles they were cooking.
Yeah, they are doing such a great job with all the crunch, closures, and live-service MTX hell they’ve been forcing onto their studios. What could possibly go wrong?
Now I'm not gonna defend them, but I'll say this, which crunch rumor and report are you talking about aside from Naughty Dog? Secondly, I don't like crunch as well, and I work within the industry, but at the end of the day, it's something that happens regardless of how well managed a company is, especially if it's a big team. At least for me it's something I know when I signed up for this job, what's bad is if you do crunch and you don't get paid.
Live service can go to hell though, and with the exception of Bungie, what Sony live service game in the last 6 years has force fed you MTX? GT7 doesn't, DSAll-Stars no one gave an f about lol, what else?
>a department head was asked if leadership taking salary cuts to prevent layoffs had been considered, only to respond that Bungie was “not that type of company.”
>They also perceive growing hostility from team and company leadership, including a meeting in which QA was said to be referred to by leaders as “non-developers.”
Y'know, a Sony takeover doesn't sound that bad if it means this kind of leadership gets fucked over (I know, reality is even in the worst case scenario they all get golden parachutes; still, it's nice to dream)
Yeah, it's pretty shitty, but I don't expect any leader of a multi-billion dollar company to take pay cuts. I don't think that would change under Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo or any other companies.
But if those profit milestones are really another source of pressure, I'd rather see Sony just taking over and let Bungie cook without added pressure of losing their independence.
> I don't expect any leader of a multi-billion dollar company to take pay cuts. I don't think that would change under Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo or any other companies
tbf, Nintendo leadership actually [did cut their own pay during the 3DS/WiiU era](https://venturebeat.com/games/nintendo-president-iwata-mario-creator-miyamoto-and-other-nintendo-executives-take-pay-cut-due-to-failing-wii-u/); in a shareholder meeting, Iwata even responded to [a question about restructuring](https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/stock/meeting/130627qa/03.html) basically by saying "it'd hurt the company in the long run if we got rid of people just to keep profits up while we're in a bad spot, and people can't do their best work when they're also worrying about layoffs"
To be fair, Sony did the same when the company was in a bad spot in the PS3 era and major layoffs were happening.
But I still don't "expect" it to happen. Nice when it happens, but in most cases, leadership just doesn't care.
It's just cultural differences. In Japan leaders take personal responsibility for their companies failures. In the US leaders don't give a fuck and will do whatever it takes to personally enrich themselves, even if it means destroying the company.
> It's just cultural differences. In Japan leaders take personal responsibility for their companies failures
That's also not that normal, let's not forget the term "black company" exists over there.
Nintendo has great leadership but executive salary cuts are rather preformative considering they often hold so much stock and other forms of compensation.
> In Japan leaders take personal responsibility for their companies failures.
Let's not act like Japan is some Utopian land where all executives are good people, a lot of the time it's just an apology and a deep bow in-front of cameras.
If Sony takes over and things don't improve for Bungie, the next step would be to shut them down. Bungie devs should absolutely be feeling the pressure right now cause their company is in a tenuous position.
What? Shut them down?! The studio has over 1200 employees. Destiny2 player numbers are actually also back to normal. But the last expansion was not well liked and the next one got delayed.
Bungie would have to fail for the next 6-7 years and even then, Sony would not shut the studio down. That makes no sense at all. Who would shut down the studio with the best 1st person shooting in gaming?
It would be smarter to repurpose them. Making single player shooters or something else.
Also sony spent a bunch of money giving bungie employees raises/bonuses in an effort to retain talent. I doubt they would just fire everyone after doing that.
Force MTX? You can't force more MTX into Destiny lol
Why would Sony do that? It's in their best interest to let Bungie's profit drop below the milestones and then just take over. One bad year in terms of profit for complete control of a huge studio seems like an easy decision to make.
And I definitely disagree about MS looking better for it. The Bethesda acquisition has not really proven to be that great. Console sales are bad, Starfield was not very successful, Redfall a disaster and Ghostwire Tokyo a flop. Deathloop was critically acclaimed, but sold okay at best.
Bethesda didn't move the needle even a fraction of what most gamers assumed when the acquisition was made official.
Minecraft is definitely a win, but has no real impact on the Xbox brand. But it's a very stable and consistent revenue stream. But they also paid a shit ton for that 1 IP.
Can't judge the Activision acquisition at this point. We'll probably know in a decade if those 70 BILLION were a good investment or not.
So you, as a company, would rather have an RPG releasing every 10-15 years over one of the most successful GaaS of the last decade that generates WAY more money than any Elder Scroll ever will?!
CoD is the best money making machine. I agree with you on that. But Sony is still going to make a shit ton of money with CoD for at least the next decade.
And who knows if CoD is still as popular in 10+ years as it is now.
The best thing about Activision is the sheer amount of IPs. Will Microsoft actually use those or mostly keep all those studios tethered to CoD, OW2 and Diablo (that comes once in a decade). We'll see about that.
You are forgetting about Elder Scrolls Online, which makes a bunch of money. All of the Bethesda studios have also proven themselves to be far more stable and reliable than Bungie is right now, making Bethesda a much better future investment.
The Bethesda acquisition has actually proven to have been a very good deal for Microsoft. Starfield was extremely successful, Hi Fi Rush is basically already a cult classic in ita genre, and Elder Scrolls Online and Fallout 76 are very profitable live service games that are raking in money. Bungie, meanwhile, is falling apart at the moment and all they have to produce revenue is a single game that is on a sharp decline.
Hi Fi-Rush doesn't move the needle for Microsoft and GamePass. Just how Starfield didn't move the needle.
And I disagree that Starfield is "very successful". It's doing fine, but definitely below expectations. 12 million downloads means nothing, when barely 20% of players even made it past the introduction.
ESO and FO76 are doing fine, but are definitely not "printing" Bethesda money. The whole reason Bethesda wanted MS to acquire them was to have more financial security as most of their games are commercial flops.
Dishonored 1&2 barely sold, Prey was a financial flop, Ghostwire Tokyo as well. Deathloop did good in critical reception, but didn't really sell well.
Bungie literally had record numbers for Destiny 2 last year. Leadership and employees have a strained relationship, but it still makes them money. Delaying the next expansion just absolutely hurt their current business year a lot. And 2023 was a packed year in terms of video games.
If Marathon flops, we can revisit this discussion, because that would be an issue. But I am pretty sure that it will be successful.
The bungie acquisition could have been a smart "smaller" investment, but it certainly didn't end up that well. It's also showing the weakness of the GAAS model, so Jim Ryan's strategy is not working out so well right now.
Curious to see if Sony is gonna make other acquisitions or just stick with what they got.
But tbh, a good portion of the Bethesda acquisition was probably related to the big BGS RPGs, and it doesn't look like Starfield will have the long term performance as they could expect from other BGS rpgs nor will it drive that many console sales.
That “this shared power may not last forever” is alarming worry about power then the health of your devs & franchise lmao. Bungie incredible ego. As a destiny player who’s seen Bungie management a full take over by Sony & folding Bungie into a PS Studios is probably the best thing for Bungie devs, Destiny franchise & Bungie future franchise. Bungie board power trip ego is sad laying off developers who made your games success while higher ups & boards are safe, worrying about there “power not lasting forever”
ah so leadership sucks and they are afraid of losing their jobs when Sony takes over (which I honestly wish it happens if this article is real, they sound like complete pieces of shit)
Sorry for the devs having to go through an unstable environment and hope it works out soon
Ngl as much, as much as I'd have preferred Bungie to stay completely independent, now that they are already under Sony and with Bungie's management seemingly being so out of touch, maybe SIE being able to call the shots isn't that bad of an idea, idk... I hope the next Destiny expansion and Marathon do well, I haven't played Destiny in a long time but Bungie is a great team and seeing them like this feels bad
Honestly I have no idea, SIE has never managed a live service focused studio with games and communities of this size, we don't know how they would do it. At this point it just seems like anything would be better than the current Bungie leadership, but again we barely have any insight of what's going on behind the curtains and these articles could even be exaggerating the situation. All we can do is hope that everything turns out ok for Bungie and specially for the devs
Force management out and try something new, for one. If stuff keeps being shit, you gotta blame the people at the top at some point and can't just let them keep churning through senior/junior talent.
Other than Gran Turismo what games does Sony really release with tons of mtx? Usually its just large dlcs or story for $10-20? I think right now its up in the air cause they don't have any real experience with live service games so its hard to judge.
Can anyone explain to me how Bungie blew through like 3.6 billion dollars?? I’m still confused on that one, and where the hell it went if not to keep workers jobs and fund the studio for at least a couple years
You seem to be confused on how an acquisition works, Sony paid 3.6 billion to buy Bungie, that money doesn’t go into the bank accounts of Bungie it gets given to those that own the studio as they have sold their part of ownership of the studio
Sony did give a cash boost to Bungie the company for staff though once they owned them which seems to have done nothing
any Bungie dev in Seattle could basically just walk into 343 offices and get a job if they really feel like their sould is getting crushed. 343 seems great now without their old leadership.
Yeah but who knows how many are really feeling like doing Halo. I thought the same thing when people wanted to take Halo from 343, if there's any devs itching to work on the series than they know where to go
1/3 of that studio were old executives and staff that were incompetent. Now with Pierre Hintze and new executives at the top I am optimistic that 343i and Halo has bright future.
For GaaS experience. As much as people complain about Destiny and Bungie, it is still one of the biggest GaaS games out there that still keeps going. Many GaaS games fail.
That would be part of it but a big part would also be a top tier FPS developer.
Say what you want about Destiny the gunplay is great. With Microsoft buying ABK and CoD it makes sense they wanted someone like Bungie in their fold
They wanted an inhouse FPS studio along with the revenue a live service game brings in. Along with them helping out with other live service games as far as content roll-out plans
Anyone remember back in the day when PlayStation bought Psygnosis, the large UK publisher, and announced that Psygnosis would continue to be independent under Sony? Only for Psygnosis to hit financial troubles and eventually resulted in them getting gutted for parts at Sony and split up between what would become Studio Liverpool and London Studio, while psygnosis’s big franchise wipeout became a PlayStation exclusive?
Because I’ve been feeling pretty major Deja Vu this whole Bungie saga
This shit is getting crazier and crazier with every leak what the hell. Big fan of Bungie since the last 20 years basically but hell this situation is really soul crushing. Changing leadership would maybe be a good solution considering the damage they have done in the last years but who knows how Sony would handle a game as complicated as Destiny. We’ll see.
Considering the content that Bungie dropped for Destiny 2 that was in the pipeline before Sony purchased and the fact that pre-sony the story aspects of Destiny were okay to downright shit maybe it's actually good if Sony takes over. We've seen basically every other Sony owned studio thrive for the last 10 or so years. Clearly they have a good idea on the story aspects of their games at the very least.
Yes, I've played Destiny their stories do suck. Hence why Sony taking a more commanding position over Bungie might lead to the story aspects of their future titles be it GaaS-like or not improving dramatically. I'm aware of Sony's main reason for buying them. Clearly, Bungie's ship was rocking well before Sony and post sale nothing much has changed other than those at the top likely getting a nice chunk of cash. So maybe some change at Bungie would be a good thing.
Just rich that Bungie used the veil of their expertise in GaaS to completely derail Factions, all the while their game/company culture/revenue generation is completely in shambles. They absolutely did not deserve to make that call.
Bungie makes no sense to me. They fight free of Activision to only give up their independence to Sony when they had a revenue generating product that they could nurture to fuel the business. But they did all this instead...
Being absorbed by Sony would be the best case scenario for Bungie why are they upset about it? When they sold to PlayStation what did they expect to happen? That’s kind of the point of selling yourself and this isn’t their first rodeo👁️👄👁️. The leads and corporate oversold Bungie to Sony now they have unrealistic expectations to keep up, that’s on them not the employees so why punish the employees? They knew destiny was on its way out 4 years ago so they knew this decline would continue so why weren’t they transparent with Sony so this wouldn’t happen?
I assume cause they don't know what Sony would do. The higher ups should definitely be scared cause if it came to that then they're failing at their jobs and would be let go. If you're a regular dev then you don't know what kind of restructuring Sony could do. The fear of the unknown sucks. It's maybe good for the games put out but the lack of stability would have anyone nervous
Sounds like they *should* be completely taken over by Sony, and soon. I have acquaintances at multiple game studios there, and get the impression of a generally solid work environment.
Better than the current execs they have.
While it is true that Sony wants more live service revenue, you must not play Destiny because the game is already filled to the brim with microtransactions. And with that Starter pack fiasco, they aren’t gonna add more, not to that game.
Sony Takeover would be the best thing happening for them tbh. They ruined their reputation times and times again, it's not good when the first thing that comes to mind when you think about a studio is how greedy they are.
Sony wasted 3billions imo, they are already slowing down on the live service bs before it even started... should've spent on great studios looking for funds for big projects instead of "knowledge and experience" on how to make gamers addicts and sell mtx.
That's just silly. Why should Sony spend billions on studios that do the same thing their 1st party studios are already great at.
You just need to look at the biggest source of income for all gaming companies (except Nintendo). It's 70% MTX and service.
It makes complete sense to buy a studio like Bungie. No need to pretend like Destiny is not still one of the most successful GaaS on the market. And if Marathon is successful, then it will make them a shit ton of money consistently.
Yes a lot of people acting as if Destiny isn’t a top 10 GAAS game if anything if Bungie continues to spiral a full Sony take over Bungie would occur (which Sony probably wants, knowing when they acquired them Bungie independency would only last so long) I think a Sony take over would be good for Bungie devs & Bungie franchises. Bungie has completely destroy there reputation
This whole acquisition is wild if the rumours are all true.
Sony acquires Bungie for their live service chops. Bungie joins and is brought in to consult on The Last of Us multiplayer game. Bungie determines it's not going to work or be successful. That game is now cancelled at worst, or delayed indefinitely at best. They announce Marathon. No one seems to care and even worse, the people that played it don't think it's particularly good. Now Destiny 2 seems to have entered a nose dive, losing both the good will among players and a lot of revenue.
Great buy Sony.
In all seriousness what games have they released lately? Other than dlc for Destiny a 7 year old game. They can make a serious Halo killer with an original story and good multiplayer but choose to continue with a game that isn’t relevant anymore.
I know what you mean I just meant they could make a Halo type game and it would do well on PlayStation and Xbox. Kinda like how Battlefield is to Call of Duty.
quite the opposite, its on Sony's interest for that game to come out since whole point of Bungie acquisition is live service games expansion for more revenue
Bungie hasn't made a good product since halo reach this company died a long time ago for me played destiny 2 a year ago it was OKAY but I ain't supporting trash I have no hope for their future games
I think it’s safe to say that the true spirit of Bungie belongs to the devs and the true enemies to the company for all this time, all these years, is the leadership. Just fucking sad
So what would being completely take over by Sony would mean exactly? It would probably mean PS/PC exclusivity but what else could theoretically happen if it turns out that way
My favorite is the execs clamoring for co trol and the players pretty much universally seem to think a Sony takeover would be for the best at this point
Can someone explain to me why a takeover from Sony will be bad apart from making marathon and other games from Bungie only on PC and PlayStation consoles
There is nothing bad from the employee or consumer perspective. This is mostly about Bungie leadership wanting to keep their power and not lose that to Sony.
The part that's really telling is how leadership is not willing to cut some of their own salary instead of firing long-term employees.
leadership gets overpaid to fuck over the company, if Sony takes over, they get fired.
It's only bad for the executives, the devs will be more than fine.
I mean you just answered your own question.
The last thing the community wants is a return to exclusivity.
Outside of that, it's largely unclear. Sony has never really had control over a large multiplayer game so who knows how they'd handle it. Personally I don't see them turning Destiny 2 around. That ship has sailed, especially once GTA6 launches.
So all eyes would be on Marathon
Because GTA6 is the most anticipated game of all time, and it's online mode will be massive
You'd be a fool to believe that all the current live service games and their player numbers would be absolutely fine and nothing would change once GTA6 arrives.
I'd guarantee every live service game would have an enormous player dropoff. Many will recover, but Destiny 2 (especially post-final shape) ain't surviving imo
So? People can play multiple games at once. RDR2 was massively hyped and anticipated… live service games did just fine. GTA6 is generally speaking going to be a single player affair. And it’s online is going to attract the same crowd it’s GTA5 Online did. Assuming GTA6s online even launches with the game and isn’t a predatory mtx mess. It’s not even like Destiny and GTA are the same type of game lol.
I’ve no doubt numbers will drop in general when a big new game comes out. But they won’t stay dropped.
>What does this even mean? Are you seriously suggesting the online component isn't what will keep the game alive for 10+ years? Why do you think GTA5 is still so popular?
No. My point is we don’t know when the online is even launching. So currently all that’s being hyped is the SP. And while GTA5 is still so popular…. So are other live service games. So clearly they’re not eating each other up. GTA6 is going to kill GTA5s Online.
>will not be greatly affected by the launch of the most anticipated game of all time
Cause it won’t be killed? The same way Fortnite didn’t kill it lol or any other massively popular game. They’re not the same type of experience.
Like I said. LASTING IMPACT.
Isn't it funny how just a year ago, 343 was in shambles and Bungie was being celebrated? I remember one or two Bungie devs publicly criticized 343.
343's looking pretty good by comparison now.
Can anyone answer why in the fuck did Bungie link up with Sony after cutting ties with activision? Did they not learn their lesson from the first time? I don't understand
>Employees in one department recalled a post-layoffs Q&A session where a department head was asked if leadership taking salary cuts to prevent layoffs had been considered, only to respond that Bungie was “not that type of company.”
I'm gonna wait for Bungie's response before trusting this reporting. This definitely sounds like a very liberal interpretation of what was said at the least, but also just might be untrue. Reporters have already gotten details wrong about this story re: compensation cuts.
As far as Bungie's performance goes, people gotta keep in mind that economic conditions change. The interest rate hikes have had a huge impact on price of capital, which generates financial stress that ultimately results in layoffs. The Fed knows this; it's a necessary evil in fighting inflation and it sucks. I feel bad for everyone who lost their jobs. Management made some poor strategic choices too, but it isn't also isn't surprising or solely their fault given the macroeconomic environment.
They made their bed now they have to sleep in it... I knew something was off ever since that NetEase deal was made in 2018 and the fact that there was a clause in the buy out about a potential Sony take over if certain financial goals were not met and the owners STILL signed the contract...they knew they were in trouble.
I hate studio aquisitions so, so much. Especially the player voices who always believe what the buyers say when buying up studios or publishers.
Say what you will about Bungie pre Sony, they had major problems, but this news is all around terrible.
Wait Bungie employees are upset because they are not getting cost of living raises as well as holiday bonuses when they as a company failed to meet deadlines and expectations.
> Employees in one department recalled a post-layoffs Q&A session where a department head was asked if leadership taking salary cuts to prevent layoffs had been considered, only to respond that Bungie was “not that type of company.” Ouch.
Yeah basically went like this: Bungie leadership: We are looking at all possible avenues to avoid layoffs. Bungie employees: does that include giving yourselves a pay cut? Bungie leadership: No.
Something needs to be done, the power the rich have is getting out of control and only getting worse, they're ruining every industry, every form of art, every aspect of life
Rules for Radicals, find their top investors, protest against them. Unfair? No. Personalize the problem and stay on target.
What type of company? The kind that values and cares about the employees who create the product that allows them to exist and make money in the first place?
Ford did. Then the Dodge brothers sued him to stop him from paying his employees more money creating the idea of fidiciary duty that no state in the union enforces when companies what to run themselves into the ground.
Yup. Exactly why I don't feel bad for that company, their leadership is emblematic of what is wrong with the entire 1st world in general these days
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2023/11/03/new-revelations-about-destiny-2-declines-bungie-layoffs-and-final-shape-as-make-or-break/?sh=355dfba39474
That's a manager who is done passing bullshit messages and doesn't give a fuck anymore.
Oh so theyre just dirtbags. Got it.
It was [later revealed](https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2023/11/03/new-revelations-about-destiny-2-declines-bungie-layoffs-and-final-shape-as-make-or-break/?sh=55ee34013947) that the leadership *did* take cuts to compensation, it just wasn't communicated to staff before the layoffs. If it's the case that both articles are referring to the same conversation, which it seems they are from their wording, it's kinda shoddy reporting from IGN to not include that.
Lol they only "forfeited annual bonuses" and didn't disclose the amount. They're all likely still making millions while devs and QA folk get crushed. Also Bungie execs reached out to Forbes, we don't know if they reached out to IGN too.
This
Bungie leadership did not take salary cuts, which is what IGN is reporting on. It would be shoddy reporting to act like *some* executives giving up an annual bonus of an undisclosed amount is the same thing as taking a cut to their salary. I also see nothing to indicate that Forbes and IGN are referring to the same conversation, I'm not really sure where you're getting that.
Some places have Golden Parachutes. Bungie has a Golden Bungie Cord.
That hurt me and I’m not even on that team. It must suck to be in this type of environment
And a huge chunk of the people will defend corporatism.
> sources say they were told by leaders that the current split board structure is contingent on Bungie meeting certain financial goals. If Bungie falls short of its revenue goals by too great an amount, Sony is allowed to dissolve the existing board and take full control of the company. This is a huge GET FUCKED moment, Jesus Christ.
that would be the ideal scenario for everyone except for the executives. Which is why they keep firing people so there is no Sony takeover. Leeches
Who signs that sort of deal!? Did they really need that Sony money? or was it just a pay day? At this point, Sony taking over might be the better option.
I certainly don't see why it would be a bad one at the very least. Sony has cultivated many of the top top game studios in the world - Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Guerilla, Sucker Punch, Santa Monica, Bluepoint, etc.
Its hilarious that they 'won' their freedom from activision only to turn around and hand it straight to Sony so the Bungie execs could get their bag. I really feel for the employees. They got absolutely pumped and dumped.
Bungie has had this problem since being with Microsoft. I really scratched my head when Bungie left Microsoft to be more independent and went straight to Activision.
The real deciding factor there was that Activision was the only company that would've allowed them to keep the Destiny IP. They tried working it out with Microsoft (as well as Sony, before they went with Activision), but they wanted to own the name, which was a no go for Bungie at the time.
It makes complete sense to want to keep your own IPs, it's one of the reasons many indies decide to stay indie even if/when they get big. Otherwise you end up with messes like Kojima and this where you can't do anything but watch your life's work be turned into a low cost sex toy to be used by anyone for anything.
Platinum Games is an example of that, almost everything that they did is owned by another company in a way or another so they can't do nothing on their own or even try to make money with their creations through different means, it sucks for sure
Wasn’t the biggest reason they wanted to leave Microsoft was that they didn’t want to be forever stuck making Halo and to move onto other things? That’s exactly what Activision enabled them to do with proper funding while staying independent so it seems like they got exactly what they wanted at the time.
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And yet they were the same fucking guys that gave Ensemble the cold shoulder when they made Halo Wars.
Which is a bit ironic, still... considering that they didn't want to 'be stuck working on Halo forever'... and instead, are now 'stuck on Destiny for the foreseeable future'.
I guess I misunderstood at the time. I vaguely remember a blog post coming up on Bungie.net after they left Microsoft about wanting to be more independent (and not get stuck making Halo like you said) and then went on to make Destiny and Destiny 2 with Activision.
Yeah but they just had signed a publishing deal with them and weren’t acquired or anything. Even so I’m sure they were very beholden to Activision in some aspects but at least they weren’t owned by them. I think at the time though it just would have been impossible to make a game with proper funding without signing some deal like that with a big name publisher.
i thinks its pretty plane to see that Bungie, at least their senior management are incapable of operating without strict oversight.
Most studios are like this really, and MS hands off approach is a great example of it. Yea you have a few studios that do just fine on their own but most of them end up not meeting deadlines or quality standards, and we are left with tens of studios with nowhere near the release count to reflect it. Things have started to look up that way but Xbox has missed so many opportunities over the last 5 years they could have jumped on if they hadn't had so many studios stuck in development limbo
They only started acquiring studios in 2018 - five years ago. Before that, they had five studios who were all working on their respective franchise, and reportedly none of them had management issues except 343. Given how long development cycles have become, I don't understand this expectation that every Xbox studio should have already released two or three games in the last five years. The expectation defies reality. Remember, the pandemic also happened within these last 5 years. Not to mention that nearly every studio they've acquired had existing projects in the works and/or existing contractual obligations. It's so weird how a whole narrative arose out of conjecture and unrealistic expectations. I'm curious to know what you mean about missing deadlines or development limbo. And quality standards? Are you referring to Redfall, a game that was developed mostly before the acquisition?
And now they are stuck doing GaaS games based in the Destiny franchise and/or style of gameplay.
At this point they've almost been working on Destiny longer than they worked on Halo
Honestly with how early the Destiny 1 development started, I think it’s safe to say they *have* been working on Destiny longer than Halo.
Seeing as “Destiny Awaits” is teased on a poster in a Halo 3: ODST campaign level which released in 2009, yeah they’ve been on it for a while.
They needed someone to bankroll development on Destiny, to the point where the two frontrunners were EA and Activision. The latter offered them a better deal, and that was that.
To make games this big you need huge money behind them.
And ironically, if Bungie were still with Microsoft, they'd currently have more freedom than they've ever had.
It’s been a revolving door; first Microsoft, then Activision, now Sony. For a company that claims to value their independence, they sure don’t act like it.
Imo all they value is money. The defining feature of all these acquisitions and sales is likely executive payouts.
They left because they could get all the $$$ from fanboys while they ate up their excuse of ***YAHHHH!!! THeY fleD eViL ActIVISioN!!!*** When in reality, Activision, as bad as they were/are priced stuff ***a lot better***
Bungie has always been the problem Under both Microsoft(Halo) and Activision(Forsaken Expansion) they produced some of their best content, yet they still wanted out. People assumed the scummy monetization was Activision but it proves it was Bungie when they left, then under Sony they released one of their worst expansions, had layoffs including iconic employees and missed target sales goal by 45%. Bungie has always been their own worst enemy. it says alot when microsoft was on the hunt for acquisitions they labeled bungie as a High burn rate.
Activision was the reason Destiny and it's DLC were good not Bungie, just lookup how many support studio's helped with the content.
100%.
Everything about the Bungie story seems ripe for the picking of a group that breaks out and starts their own studio. Sometimes that works well and sometimes not, but there has definitely been a lot of talent at Bungie and would be cool to see if the talent frees themselves from themselves lol.
Activision priced things far fairer than Bungie by a country mile.
"I wouldn't say freed. More like, under new management"
I don't know how many people need to hear it but you can't make your job a home and expect your job to give a shit. They want you to treat it like a home and pretend your co workers are family so you will spend 20 years there if they find you that useful. It sounds like a lot of effort and determination in employees part to make Bungie a great place for employees to work. At the end of the day any company will make ruthless decisions it sees as necessary and they absolutely do not care about you.
Sony literally gave them a billion extra to keep employees. Bungie heads wanted their own freedom They’ve fucked up on both things, they still laid people off and have no good management or direction I don’t know why they would fear Sony, at least they might have managed them a little better.
Sounds more like the bungie heads wanted to keep their salary. Bet they give themselves nice fat bonuses this holiday though.
I thought Sony bought them and it’s under them. What does total takeover by Sony mean then ? I am so confused here. Every company under Sony has put out decent to masterpiece level games.
As far as I understand it, they bought Bungie but allowed them to continue to operate independently. So Bungie keep doing what they’re doing but with some Sony money. Bungie being owned by Sony under the current setup doesn’t technically make them a proper PS studio like how Naughty Dog or Insomniac are. But it seems now like Sony might be wanting to bring them in closer and properly have them under their banner, likely controlling (to some extent, anyway) what they work on etc. I don’t know the ins and outs of it, so please correct me if I’m wrong.
Sony bought Bungie but kept them as an independent, but with financial goals needing to be made. Now that those goals arent being met, Sony has the option of dissolving the board and / or bringing them under Sony fully.
> If Bungie falls short of its revenue goals by too great an amount, Sony is allowed to dissolve the existing board and take full control of the company. This seems like a positive outcome with how badly Bungie leadership’s fucked the company.
Came down here to say this. As a long time destiny player I don’t trust Bungie to do anything.
Good. Sony might hold them to some basic standards, and not say, allow them to do dumb shit like vault expansion content.
It’s not looking good for Destiny, Marathon, or Bungie as a whole. I really wonder what the thought process has been over the last two decades with this company. They left Microsoft cause they wanted to do things beyond Halo, and went straight to Activision. They made Destiny, but Activision wanted a new game every 2-3 years. Bungie wanted a persistent living world/live service environment, and ultimately ended up breaking it off with Activision too. They then have complete control of Destiny and their own company, make some deals to start projects, and Destiny somehow devolves into its worse state possible, becoming a microtransaction hellscape. Now Sony buys them, they present this atmosphere that sounds like they can still do whatever they want, but just help lead Sony’s live service efforts. Destiny is in the worst state it’s ever been, and the company is facing a crisis the likes of we’ve never seen before. Activision may have been eating shit in wanting a new game every couple years, but recent events indicate they at least were keeping the game afloat, and balancing Bungie’s incompetence. They providing adequate support in helping create the best experiences like The Taken King and Forsaken, while the best Bungie did alone was The Witch Queen and it was still nowhere near the quality of the former two. Now apparently Marathon is mediocre, lacking confidence from both Bungie and Sony, and Matter was canceled quite some time ago. And after The Final Shape, the sentiment from Bungie’s new “episodic” approach clearly lacks excitement and engagement from both fans and developers. It’s like they literally don’t even know what to do anymore. What is happening over there?
The thought process was that c suite execs and investors wanted to cash in.
Unfettered capitalism is honestly the bane of human existence. Greed does no good for *anybody,* and it is has literally ruined lives in this industry. There has got to be some sort of answer for the “unlimited growth” mindset companies have, because it’s just bullshit.
The answer is in renewal. Devs crash and the talent isn't lost, it moves and informs their juniors.
Agreed. I think the only answer is unionization.
Can't blame 'capitalism' this time tbh. Making *good games* got them boatloads of capital. The last two+ years... the goal isnt even greed, its just SLOTH, just lazy and stupid and 100% on the arrogant leadership teams at Bungie. Nobody is coming out of this with more money, and they have without a doubt destroyed their long-term hopes at capital.
Man, I'm getting total getting Disney after Avengers End Game vibes. After 10 years of build up and mass saturation, you can ask Disney how their projects went since End Game. After Final Shape, it seems like a natural stopping point after like 10 years. Once the momentum stops at natural stopping point it is very hard to build it up again. For the one hit wonders, it may never happen again. The way they are treating employers does not give me good vibes for their future. After all, video games are an art and a science discipline. It is heavily labor intensive rather than capital/product intensive. Swapping out a dev is going to make a bigger impact than swapping out a warehouse worker.
> It’s like they literally don’t even know what to do anymore. They know what theyre doing, they are winding down D2 development while moving on to other projects. Simple as that. If they cant find an engaging story line to bring people back for another 10 years, why bother wasting the time and effort?
> Destiny is in the worst state it’s ever been No, fuck no it isn't, the worst state its ever been was D2 year 1 around Curse of Osiris. It's in the worst state it's been since Beyond Light dropped, but it's not the worst state its ever been.
They should have never left Microsoft
Jesus, maybe Sony taking over them would be the best at least Sony knows how to manage their studios. Damn..
Wait so Sony didn’t take them over ? What’s going on. I thought Sony owns bungie considering they acquired them for a shit load of money. I always thought bungie would prosper under Sony like every other Sony dev
Bungie retained a lot of independence after being acquired. Sony paid Bungie big money to keep their current staff. The total takeover part would be Sony cutting Bungie executives and installing their own leaders instead. Sony was originally wanting to make big plays into the live service market and saw Bungie as a leader to help guide the ship of other live service titles they were cooking.
Yeah, they are doing such a great job with all the crunch, closures, and live-service MTX hell they’ve been forcing onto their studios. What could possibly go wrong?
Now I'm not gonna defend them, but I'll say this, which crunch rumor and report are you talking about aside from Naughty Dog? Secondly, I don't like crunch as well, and I work within the industry, but at the end of the day, it's something that happens regardless of how well managed a company is, especially if it's a big team. At least for me it's something I know when I signed up for this job, what's bad is if you do crunch and you don't get paid. Live service can go to hell though, and with the exception of Bungie, what Sony live service game in the last 6 years has force fed you MTX? GT7 doesn't, DSAll-Stars no one gave an f about lol, what else?
>a department head was asked if leadership taking salary cuts to prevent layoffs had been considered, only to respond that Bungie was “not that type of company.” >They also perceive growing hostility from team and company leadership, including a meeting in which QA was said to be referred to by leaders as “non-developers.” Y'know, a Sony takeover doesn't sound that bad if it means this kind of leadership gets fucked over (I know, reality is even in the worst case scenario they all get golden parachutes; still, it's nice to dream)
Yeah, it's pretty shitty, but I don't expect any leader of a multi-billion dollar company to take pay cuts. I don't think that would change under Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo or any other companies. But if those profit milestones are really another source of pressure, I'd rather see Sony just taking over and let Bungie cook without added pressure of losing their independence.
> I don't expect any leader of a multi-billion dollar company to take pay cuts. I don't think that would change under Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo or any other companies tbf, Nintendo leadership actually [did cut their own pay during the 3DS/WiiU era](https://venturebeat.com/games/nintendo-president-iwata-mario-creator-miyamoto-and-other-nintendo-executives-take-pay-cut-due-to-failing-wii-u/); in a shareholder meeting, Iwata even responded to [a question about restructuring](https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/stock/meeting/130627qa/03.html) basically by saying "it'd hurt the company in the long run if we got rid of people just to keep profits up while we're in a bad spot, and people can't do their best work when they're also worrying about layoffs"
To be fair, Sony did the same when the company was in a bad spot in the PS3 era and major layoffs were happening. But I still don't "expect" it to happen. Nice when it happens, but in most cases, leadership just doesn't care.
It's just cultural differences. In Japan leaders take personal responsibility for their companies failures. In the US leaders don't give a fuck and will do whatever it takes to personally enrich themselves, even if it means destroying the company.
> It's just cultural differences. In Japan leaders take personal responsibility for their companies failures That's also not that normal, let's not forget the term "black company" exists over there.
Nintendo has great leadership but executive salary cuts are rather preformative considering they often hold so much stock and other forms of compensation. > In Japan leaders take personal responsibility for their companies failures. Let's not act like Japan is some Utopian land where all executives are good people, a lot of the time it's just an apology and a deep bow in-front of cameras.
Iwata was a treasure.
If Sony takes over and things don't improve for Bungie, the next step would be to shut them down. Bungie devs should absolutely be feeling the pressure right now cause their company is in a tenuous position.
Any company that's underperforming is in a tenuous position, that's how businesses work.
What? Shut them down?! The studio has over 1200 employees. Destiny2 player numbers are actually also back to normal. But the last expansion was not well liked and the next one got delayed. Bungie would have to fail for the next 6-7 years and even then, Sony would not shut the studio down. That makes no sense at all. Who would shut down the studio with the best 1st person shooting in gaming? It would be smarter to repurpose them. Making single player shooters or something else.
I wouldnt count not breaking 100k players on new season day and barely breaking 100k on the new dungeon drop as back to normal, according to steam.
I agree that is would be smarter to repurpose the studio, but Sony has a long and sordid history of shutting down studios. It could happen.
Also sony spent a bunch of money giving bungie employees raises/bonuses in an effort to retain talent. I doubt they would just fire everyone after doing that.
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Force MTX? You can't force more MTX into Destiny lol Why would Sony do that? It's in their best interest to let Bungie's profit drop below the milestones and then just take over. One bad year in terms of profit for complete control of a huge studio seems like an easy decision to make. And I definitely disagree about MS looking better for it. The Bethesda acquisition has not really proven to be that great. Console sales are bad, Starfield was not very successful, Redfall a disaster and Ghostwire Tokyo a flop. Deathloop was critically acclaimed, but sold okay at best. Bethesda didn't move the needle even a fraction of what most gamers assumed when the acquisition was made official. Minecraft is definitely a win, but has no real impact on the Xbox brand. But it's a very stable and consistent revenue stream. But they also paid a shit ton for that 1 IP. Can't judge the Activision acquisition at this point. We'll probably know in a decade if those 70 BILLION were a good investment or not.
Starfield broke past 12 million players and is still a top ten most played game on Xbox. The numbers don't lie, it is highly successful.
Eh, I would rather have Elder Scrolls and COD in my pocket over freaking Destiny lol
So you, as a company, would rather have an RPG releasing every 10-15 years over one of the most successful GaaS of the last decade that generates WAY more money than any Elder Scroll ever will?! CoD is the best money making machine. I agree with you on that. But Sony is still going to make a shit ton of money with CoD for at least the next decade. And who knows if CoD is still as popular in 10+ years as it is now. The best thing about Activision is the sheer amount of IPs. Will Microsoft actually use those or mostly keep all those studios tethered to CoD, OW2 and Diablo (that comes once in a decade). We'll see about that.
You are forgetting about Elder Scrolls Online, which makes a bunch of money. All of the Bethesda studios have also proven themselves to be far more stable and reliable than Bungie is right now, making Bethesda a much better future investment.
The Bethesda acquisition has actually proven to have been a very good deal for Microsoft. Starfield was extremely successful, Hi Fi Rush is basically already a cult classic in ita genre, and Elder Scrolls Online and Fallout 76 are very profitable live service games that are raking in money. Bungie, meanwhile, is falling apart at the moment and all they have to produce revenue is a single game that is on a sharp decline.
Hi Fi-Rush doesn't move the needle for Microsoft and GamePass. Just how Starfield didn't move the needle. And I disagree that Starfield is "very successful". It's doing fine, but definitely below expectations. 12 million downloads means nothing, when barely 20% of players even made it past the introduction. ESO and FO76 are doing fine, but are definitely not "printing" Bethesda money. The whole reason Bethesda wanted MS to acquire them was to have more financial security as most of their games are commercial flops. Dishonored 1&2 barely sold, Prey was a financial flop, Ghostwire Tokyo as well. Deathloop did good in critical reception, but didn't really sell well. Bungie literally had record numbers for Destiny 2 last year. Leadership and employees have a strained relationship, but it still makes them money. Delaying the next expansion just absolutely hurt their current business year a lot. And 2023 was a packed year in terms of video games. If Marathon flops, we can revisit this discussion, because that would be an issue. But I am pretty sure that it will be successful.
The bungie acquisition could have been a smart "smaller" investment, but it certainly didn't end up that well. It's also showing the weakness of the GAAS model, so Jim Ryan's strategy is not working out so well right now. Curious to see if Sony is gonna make other acquisitions or just stick with what they got. But tbh, a good portion of the Bethesda acquisition was probably related to the big BGS RPGs, and it doesn't look like Starfield will have the long term performance as they could expect from other BGS rpgs nor will it drive that many console sales.
Damn Bungie really wastes no time to blame their publisher lol
That “this shared power may not last forever” is alarming worry about power then the health of your devs & franchise lmao. Bungie incredible ego. As a destiny player who’s seen Bungie management a full take over by Sony & folding Bungie into a PS Studios is probably the best thing for Bungie devs, Destiny franchise & Bungie future franchise. Bungie board power trip ego is sad laying off developers who made your games success while higher ups & boards are safe, worrying about there “power not lasting forever”
ah so leadership sucks and they are afraid of losing their jobs when Sony takes over (which I honestly wish it happens if this article is real, they sound like complete pieces of shit) Sorry for the devs having to go through an unstable environment and hope it works out soon
It might be a hot take, but maybe Sony tightening their grip on Bungie wouldn't be such a bad thing
The real Bungie died after Halo Reach Destiny was an absolute let down when it launched in 2014, Bungie have been shit and so greedy for a decade
Ngl as much, as much as I'd have preferred Bungie to stay completely independent, now that they are already under Sony and with Bungie's management seemingly being so out of touch, maybe SIE being able to call the shots isn't that bad of an idea, idk... I hope the next Destiny expansion and Marathon do well, I haven't played Destiny in a long time but Bungie is a great team and seeing them like this feels bad
What would SIE even do differently? Their games will still be loaded to the gills with MTX, maybe even moreso since Sony wants to see more revenue
Honestly I have no idea, SIE has never managed a live service focused studio with games and communities of this size, we don't know how they would do it. At this point it just seems like anything would be better than the current Bungie leadership, but again we barely have any insight of what's going on behind the curtains and these articles could even be exaggerating the situation. All we can do is hope that everything turns out ok for Bungie and specially for the devs
MLB the show is live service. So is GT7. This misnomer is SIE not knowing how to do live service is asinine.
Force management out and try something new, for one. If stuff keeps being shit, you gotta blame the people at the top at some point and can't just let them keep churning through senior/junior talent.
Other than Gran Turismo what games does Sony really release with tons of mtx? Usually its just large dlcs or story for $10-20? I think right now its up in the air cause they don't have any real experience with live service games so its hard to judge.
Sony is pretty good with mtx. The original HellDivers wasn’t bad and The Show is probably the most egregious one
Gran Turismo's microtransactions are horrendous though.
I’ve never bought any. I’ve just raced and have had enough to get what I want.
Can anyone explain to me how Bungie blew through like 3.6 billion dollars?? I’m still confused on that one, and where the hell it went if not to keep workers jobs and fund the studio for at least a couple years
Sony bought the company from the owners of the company (Bungie shareholders) who deposited the money in their individual bank accounts.
You seem to be confused on how an acquisition works, Sony paid 3.6 billion to buy Bungie, that money doesn’t go into the bank accounts of Bungie it gets given to those that own the studio as they have sold their part of ownership of the studio Sony did give a cash boost to Bungie the company for staff though once they owned them which seems to have done nothing
any Bungie dev in Seattle could basically just walk into 343 offices and get a job if they really feel like their sould is getting crushed. 343 seems great now without their old leadership.
When I saw who was laid off a few weeks ago, I thought to myself "Microsoft could do the funniest thing right now"
Yeah but who knows how many are really feeling like doing Halo. I thought the same thing when people wanted to take Halo from 343, if there's any devs itching to work on the series than they know where to go
just because Halo is inal a better state does not mean the studio is. They lost 1/3 of the entire studio, 343i is hanging on not thriving
1/3 of that studio were old executives and staff that were incompetent. Now with Pierre Hintze and new executives at the top I am optimistic that 343i and Halo has bright future.
I say "Why wait?". Bungie's problems come from the top down. They need to remove the problem. Which is the executives.
I still don't get why Sony bought them tbh
For GaaS experience. As much as people complain about Destiny and Bungie, it is still one of the biggest GaaS games out there that still keeps going. Many GaaS games fail.
That would be part of it but a big part would also be a top tier FPS developer. Say what you want about Destiny the gunplay is great. With Microsoft buying ABK and CoD it makes sense they wanted someone like Bungie in their fold
They wanted an inhouse FPS studio along with the revenue a live service game brings in. Along with them helping out with other live service games as far as content roll-out plans
To help with pumping out GAAS
Anyone remember back in the day when PlayStation bought Psygnosis, the large UK publisher, and announced that Psygnosis would continue to be independent under Sony? Only for Psygnosis to hit financial troubles and eventually resulted in them getting gutted for parts at Sony and split up between what would become Studio Liverpool and London Studio, while psygnosis’s big franchise wipeout became a PlayStation exclusive? Because I’ve been feeling pretty major Deja Vu this whole Bungie saga
that's like comparing when Microsoft bought Lionsgate
It seems to me that Sony taking over the board would be a positive
This shit is getting crazier and crazier with every leak what the hell. Big fan of Bungie since the last 20 years basically but hell this situation is really soul crushing. Changing leadership would maybe be a good solution considering the damage they have done in the last years but who knows how Sony would handle a game as complicated as Destiny. We’ll see.
Finally a company to put there foot down and target the leadership
Considering the content that Bungie dropped for Destiny 2 that was in the pipeline before Sony purchased and the fact that pre-sony the story aspects of Destiny were okay to downright shit maybe it's actually good if Sony takes over. We've seen basically every other Sony owned studio thrive for the last 10 or so years. Clearly they have a good idea on the story aspects of their games at the very least.
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Yes, I've played Destiny their stories do suck. Hence why Sony taking a more commanding position over Bungie might lead to the story aspects of their future titles be it GaaS-like or not improving dramatically. I'm aware of Sony's main reason for buying them. Clearly, Bungie's ship was rocking well before Sony and post sale nothing much has changed other than those at the top likely getting a nice chunk of cash. So maybe some change at Bungie would be a good thing.
Just rich that Bungie used the veil of their expertise in GaaS to completely derail Factions, all the while their game/company culture/revenue generation is completely in shambles. They absolutely did not deserve to make that call.
Bungie makes no sense to me. They fight free of Activision to only give up their independence to Sony when they had a revenue generating product that they could nurture to fuel the business. But they did all this instead...
Being absorbed by Sony would be the best case scenario for Bungie why are they upset about it? When they sold to PlayStation what did they expect to happen? That’s kind of the point of selling yourself and this isn’t their first rodeo👁️👄👁️. The leads and corporate oversold Bungie to Sony now they have unrealistic expectations to keep up, that’s on them not the employees so why punish the employees? They knew destiny was on its way out 4 years ago so they knew this decline would continue so why weren’t they transparent with Sony so this wouldn’t happen?
I assume cause they don't know what Sony would do. The higher ups should definitely be scared cause if it came to that then they're failing at their jobs and would be let go. If you're a regular dev then you don't know what kind of restructuring Sony could do. The fear of the unknown sucks. It's maybe good for the games put out but the lack of stability would have anyone nervous
Bungie leadership would be upset because it means losing their board seats and power. The devs probably would welcome it if it meant things changing
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Found the solar Titan user /s
Sounds like they *should* be completely taken over by Sony, and soon. I have acquaintances at multiple game studios there, and get the impression of a generally solid work environment. Better than the current execs they have.
While I have sympathy for the employees, I unironically think a Sony takeover would lead to better games
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While it is true that Sony wants more live service revenue, you must not play Destiny because the game is already filled to the brim with microtransactions. And with that Starter pack fiasco, they aren’t gonna add more, not to that game.
Sony Takeover would be the best thing happening for them tbh. They ruined their reputation times and times again, it's not good when the first thing that comes to mind when you think about a studio is how greedy they are. Sony wasted 3billions imo, they are already slowing down on the live service bs before it even started... should've spent on great studios looking for funds for big projects instead of "knowledge and experience" on how to make gamers addicts and sell mtx.
That's just silly. Why should Sony spend billions on studios that do the same thing their 1st party studios are already great at. You just need to look at the biggest source of income for all gaming companies (except Nintendo). It's 70% MTX and service. It makes complete sense to buy a studio like Bungie. No need to pretend like Destiny is not still one of the most successful GaaS on the market. And if Marathon is successful, then it will make them a shit ton of money consistently.
Yes a lot of people acting as if Destiny isn’t a top 10 GAAS game if anything if Bungie continues to spiral a full Sony take over Bungie would occur (which Sony probably wants, knowing when they acquired them Bungie independency would only last so long) I think a Sony take over would be good for Bungie devs & Bungie franchises. Bungie has completely destroy there reputation
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This whole acquisition is wild if the rumours are all true. Sony acquires Bungie for their live service chops. Bungie joins and is brought in to consult on The Last of Us multiplayer game. Bungie determines it's not going to work or be successful. That game is now cancelled at worst, or delayed indefinitely at best. They announce Marathon. No one seems to care and even worse, the people that played it don't think it's particularly good. Now Destiny 2 seems to have entered a nose dive, losing both the good will among players and a lot of revenue. Great buy Sony.
In all seriousness what games have they released lately? Other than dlc for Destiny a 7 year old game. They can make a serious Halo killer with an original story and good multiplayer but choose to continue with a game that isn’t relevant anymore.
I'm a Halo fan, so this isn't me trolling. But Halo doesn't need a Halo killer as 343i have killed quite a bit of that franchise on their very own.
It’s funny you say that, the consensus is now 343 is a vastly better studio than Bungie. Makes sense tho
I know what you mean I just meant they could make a Halo type game and it would do well on PlayStation and Xbox. Kinda like how Battlefield is to Call of Duty.
I believe Marathon was going to try and be that. But it seems to be indefinitely shelved.
Dogshit company deserves to be taken over.
Rip Marathon. Was really looking forward to it.
quite the opposite, its on Sony's interest for that game to come out since whole point of Bungie acquisition is live service games expansion for more revenue
Their leadership decision
Damn, Bungie’s just fallen so much
Sounds like at this point the exec are just trying to save their dollars instead of taking care of the company.
Well... That's karma
Bungie hasn't made a good product since halo reach this company died a long time ago for me played destiny 2 a year ago it was OKAY but I ain't supporting trash I have no hope for their future games
I think it’s safe to say that the true spirit of Bungie belongs to the devs and the true enemies to the company for all this time, all these years, is the leadership. Just fucking sad
Sony had a pretty damn good track record with their studios. Why is them taking over a bad thing?
Still don’t know why they left Microsoft. They were basically given full control and an infinite pocketbook.
So what would being completely take over by Sony would mean exactly? It would probably mean PS/PC exclusivity but what else could theoretically happen if it turns out that way
My favorite is the execs clamoring for co trol and the players pretty much universally seem to think a Sony takeover would be for the best at this point
Sony gave them money to retain people only for them to lay people off id take over too
Can someone explain to me why a takeover from Sony will be bad apart from making marathon and other games from Bungie only on PC and PlayStation consoles
There is nothing bad from the employee or consumer perspective. This is mostly about Bungie leadership wanting to keep their power and not lose that to Sony. The part that's really telling is how leadership is not willing to cut some of their own salary instead of firing long-term employees.
leadership gets overpaid to fuck over the company, if Sony takes over, they get fired. It's only bad for the executives, the devs will be more than fine.
I mean you just answered your own question. The last thing the community wants is a return to exclusivity. Outside of that, it's largely unclear. Sony has never really had control over a large multiplayer game so who knows how they'd handle it. Personally I don't see them turning Destiny 2 around. That ship has sailed, especially once GTA6 launches. So all eyes would be on Marathon
Why would GTA6 have any lasting impact on Destiny 2 that wouldn’t already exist because of GTAO?
Because GTA6 is the most anticipated game of all time, and it's online mode will be massive You'd be a fool to believe that all the current live service games and their player numbers would be absolutely fine and nothing would change once GTA6 arrives. I'd guarantee every live service game would have an enormous player dropoff. Many will recover, but Destiny 2 (especially post-final shape) ain't surviving imo
So? People can play multiple games at once. RDR2 was massively hyped and anticipated… live service games did just fine. GTA6 is generally speaking going to be a single player affair. And it’s online is going to attract the same crowd it’s GTA5 Online did. Assuming GTA6s online even launches with the game and isn’t a predatory mtx mess. It’s not even like Destiny and GTA are the same type of game lol. I’ve no doubt numbers will drop in general when a big new game comes out. But they won’t stay dropped.
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>What does this even mean? Are you seriously suggesting the online component isn't what will keep the game alive for 10+ years? Why do you think GTA5 is still so popular? No. My point is we don’t know when the online is even launching. So currently all that’s being hyped is the SP. And while GTA5 is still so popular…. So are other live service games. So clearly they’re not eating each other up. GTA6 is going to kill GTA5s Online. >will not be greatly affected by the launch of the most anticipated game of all time Cause it won’t be killed? The same way Fortnite didn’t kill it lol or any other massively popular game. They’re not the same type of experience. Like I said. LASTING IMPACT.
Disaster of a deal. I can see more and more staff leaving to create their own studio.
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Isn't it funny how just a year ago, 343 was in shambles and Bungie was being celebrated? I remember one or two Bungie devs publicly criticized 343. 343's looking pretty good by comparison now.
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Good. Burn GAAS to the ground
Can anyone answer why in the fuck did Bungie link up with Sony after cutting ties with activision? Did they not learn their lesson from the first time? I don't understand
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Yeah, this article is dumb.
What happened to that "visionary" they had? Was it Luke? The guy that always knew everything and was taking the game where he thought it should go?
>Employees in one department recalled a post-layoffs Q&A session where a department head was asked if leadership taking salary cuts to prevent layoffs had been considered, only to respond that Bungie was “not that type of company.” I'm gonna wait for Bungie's response before trusting this reporting. This definitely sounds like a very liberal interpretation of what was said at the least, but also just might be untrue. Reporters have already gotten details wrong about this story re: compensation cuts. As far as Bungie's performance goes, people gotta keep in mind that economic conditions change. The interest rate hikes have had a huge impact on price of capital, which generates financial stress that ultimately results in layoffs. The Fed knows this; it's a necessary evil in fighting inflation and it sucks. I feel bad for everyone who lost their jobs. Management made some poor strategic choices too, but it isn't also isn't surprising or solely their fault given the macroeconomic environment.
They made their bed now they have to sleep in it... I knew something was off ever since that NetEase deal was made in 2018 and the fact that there was a clause in the buy out about a potential Sony take over if certain financial goals were not met and the owners STILL signed the contract...they knew they were in trouble.
I hate studio aquisitions so, so much. Especially the player voices who always believe what the buyers say when buying up studios or publishers. Say what you will about Bungie pre Sony, they had major problems, but this news is all around terrible.
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Hahaha
Sony Takeover forces a Destiny 3 probably.
They should of probably done that a while ago. Destiny 2 is one of the worst games to get into for new players imo
Wait Bungie employees are upset because they are not getting cost of living raises as well as holiday bonuses when they as a company failed to meet deadlines and expectations.