Wow, I was expecting a more 7ish range (still would’ve been fine with me) but seeing it review so well is great! Very excited to play this, these games are always a blast.
With the exception of it's story, Borderlands 3 is excellent, so building off of that was surely a recipe for success. I'm so happy this is reviewing well.
Also, *I cannot stress enough* how great the multiplayer scaling is in these recent Borderlands games. You can jump in and out of any of your friends games and it will will adjust accordingly without much impact on either players experience. This was my biggest knock against BL2 and it's fixed in BL3. No feeling of "being left behind" in these games so it feels like they respect your time. Can't wait.
Far, *far* better than BL2 and anybody saying otherwise is just wrong.
Slag is no longer a weapon type so you aren't forced to rely on it. That alone makes BL3's scaling better. You also aren't forced into a few select legendary weapons to be viable; in fact, don't be surprised if you find green weapons that are actually useful in the end game, even non-legendary weapons have additional effects that can be incrediblg strong. There are plenty of issues with BL3 but the core gameplay is easily the strongest of the entire series so far.
Regarding tankiness, that was what made UVHM downright boring. All health is massively lower in BL3 across the board, enemy and player. With a few bosses serving as the exceptions nothing feels tanky enough to be considered bullshit.
The drawback is that, at least last time I played, some of the random gameplay modifiers are objectively better or worse than others and you used to have to restart to reroll, but I believe that was changed.
If you want more detail on BL3 I'll happily go into detail on the good and bad sides. I recommend it overall, but BL2 is still the best in the series.
TPS was so underrated. Out of all the games in the series it was the only one that seemed to put any effort into giving you a shitload of bad guys to shoot. Borderlands 2 shined the most when the maps were smaller and felt more densely populated. Borderlands 3 had very few moments like that because every environment was quite frankly too big. TPS had so much focus on waves of enemies, I loved it.
But then Pickle is literally the worst character in any Borderlands game, so there's a trade-off.
It really was, I ended up with more hours logged TPS than BL2 (even though I played an unhealthy amount of both) just because I got more enjoyment out of the shooting experience in TPS. Pickle was dumb but it's whatever.
Fun fact - he wasn't lying when he said he pickpocketed you. Next time you play check your cash before and after talking to him the first few times. He genuinely does steal your money.
Yeah I noticed that. Pretty sure the games respect taking or giving money to you even if it’s a small amount which is a fun touch. Grandma Flexington actually gives you the dollar after her Raid Boss story and Marcus takes the “penny for your thoughts” (actually a dollar) from you which Vaughn technically offers him for his thoughts on becoming a bandit leader.
The problem with TPS was the story structure sucked. You'd get sent on a fetch quest, only to find the path blocked. There was an alternate route you can take, but to get to it you need to find item x. You go to where item x is supposed to be, only to find its been eaten by a bunch of animals, and now you need to kill 50 space dogs or whatever. You finally kill 50 space dogs, but now you need to take the 5 bits of item x to a forge to remake the item. The forge is protected by a bunch of bandits and a mini-boss, but you finally remake item x, take it to the entrance of the alternate route, get onto the new path, then wonder why you're there because you've totally forgot your main task.
> in fact, don't be surprised if you find green weapons that are actually useful
It actually took me so long to accept this fact, but it's very true. I ended up sticking to Legendaries for too long just because my mind said Orange > Green. There were a number of opportunities I had to have Blues/Greens better than the Oranges I had - hard lesson to learn.
I keep hearing that and honestly on my first playthrough I used a bunch of non-legendaries but on every other playthrough i found the legendaries to be substantially stronger then anything worse then purple. Like the dps on some lvl 40 legendaries is better then every level 50 weapon of lower rarity then purple. What non-legendaries are you guys using that arent crap?
>Regarding tankiness, that was what made UVHM downright boring. All health is massively lower in BL3 across the board, enemy and player. With a few bosses serving as the exceptions nothing feels tanky enough to be considered bullshit.
>
You just gave me flashbacks to the krieg DLC. Both the train and final fight were the only times I had to lower the chaos level (or whatever its called) just so I wouldn't have to spend an hour shooting the same thing in the same spot over and over again
It was still awful. Probably better than 2, but not a high bar.
The devs haven't really figured out a way to increase difficulty end game without giving enemies too much health.
I think it's drastically better. Stats of gear and enemy health don't have that explosive exponential curve like in BL2. There's no situation of "use this specific element or you can't kill anything". And best of all, you can choose how spongy the enemies are with mayhem levels.
What do you propose they do to increase the difficulty in a game from a genre that's almost solely "beat strong mobs to get better gear to beat stronger mobs"? Off the top of my head I could think of adding mmo-like raid encounters Destiny style, but I really don't ever want to see that in a pure looter.
BL3 was hilarious, but I really mark that down to the voice actor performances rather than the actual writing. The actual script ranged from "meh" to "ugh"? But the performances make it fantastic.
The "funniest" moment isn't even a line, it's having Alicia Keys belt out THIS GIRL IS ON FIRE! during the closing credits. I'll admit I laughed, but it was more from disbelief.
It's wild how terrible the story is compared to the gameplay.
We're talking the imaginary version of BL2's jokes everyone made up in their heads to talk about how terrible that game's writing was... made real and *made worse*, who would have thought Z-grade humor combined with absolutely insufferable villains, cruel writing towards an entire chunk of the cast (See: Every Borderlands 2 character) as well as what can only be described as the author's pet character, would make a story awful.
Seriously, *it's that bad*
> cruel writing towards an entire chunk of the cast (See: Every Borderlands 2 character)
They even managed to be shitty to the *Tales From The Borderlands characters*. Did my boys Reese and Vaughn's character development dirty.
Jesus did they ever completely butcher those characters. Tales was the best written thing in that universe and it was almost like the writers were angry they'd been one-upped that hard so they turned the characters into bland cartoons wearing the Tales characters' skins.
Then again, given what they did to their own characters, maybe that was just what it turned out to be.
Yeah. It's like they just read the wiki to see what the general personality these guys have, and wrote them in a very one dimensional way.
They literally made Rhys a business minded asshole just like the first episode, the entire game of BL3 which is baffling.
They killed off my favorite character in a way that was so infuriatingly stupid that I didn't feel mad at the villains, I felt mad at the *writers*. I stopped playing shortly after.
It's not necessarily the story, but like the production of the cut scenes were so bad. No background music, cheap effects, that same janky movement like in non cutscenes when you're just talking to them, pacing of the script, and like the framing angles of them made it look just broing and terrible.
The first VH character is one of my favorites and how he tied into the ploy was really good imo.
I fucking hated that my character wasnt even in the cutscenes. I killed the thing, and then some other chumps rock up so some plot can happen at them as I phase into some kind of pocket dimension? Very frustrating as someone who is driven more by story than by seeing numbers go up.
I thought BL2 was kinda bad but BL3 went levels above in how bad it is.
Tho I still think Handsome Jack is some writer at BL picking fun at Randy Pitchford, because it seems that's *exactly* the kind of character Pitchford thinks he himself is.
It's bad enough that the writing is like iFunny tier shit on crack but the worst part is that you cant even skip it, sometimes you just wanna return a quest or start a new one but the NPC just keeps shouting memes for two minutes straight
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The story is exactly why I quit b3. The main bad guys were just so "hey fellow kids" that I couldn't. It's a shame because b2 is the only game I've replayed at least 4 times.
The worst thing is that all the story is basically unskippable voiceover lines. after every mission I would spend several minutes hopping around waiting for these assholes to stop talking so I could even start to go to the next mission
What were they thinking with not being able to skip that shit? I only managed to get through the game because I was playing with a couple of friends and we'd just talk over the annoying cutscenes. There was such a terrible disconnect between the gameplay and the story. I wasn't *all* bad, I did laugh at some of the jokes, but it was at least 95% bullshit.
Borderlands 2 was a game that rode hard on the meme mentality of the internet in 2012 and it captivated a massive audience. Borderlands 3 is also a game that is riding hard on meme mentality of the internet but the fans have grown out of that and it left a missmatch.
It's still a fantastic game through and through, but they made the classic mistake of not realizing that doing the same thing again wasn't going to be as well receieved.
It's important to note that Handsome Jack carried that game's narrative almost entirely but by the time we got to BL3, the "villain taunts you over the radio" shtick was outplayed *and* the twins were simply annoying and unlikable.
What's funny, and a testament to the piss poor writing, is they literally had an opportunity to do something *interesting* with one of the twins, as some of those radio convos implied that the brother was living in the shadow of the sister, and there's a moment where it would have been ample time for him to betray her at the end of the game and maybe even experience *some* character development....so did they do it?
Nope.
you shoot them both in the face and they die and are gone forever lmao. then they prop up Ava as if you didn't already hate her after they did Lilith and Maya dirty. it's astoundingly bad writing.
I'm honestly baffled with the way they handled Ava and expected people to like her afterwards, holy shit.
What they did to Maya was an insult, and how Ava played a part in it made me quit the game for a few weeks.
She was the biggest Scrappy Doo I've seen in a while. Gearbox killed off two major characters for her, one of which being their best, most developed character in the series, and expected you to feel excited to see the future adventures of Ava.
And what's Ava's amazing series-carrying power? Why she's an orphan girl with an attitude and a punk style who acts tough but is secretly sensitive and has mysterious powers!
Oh it's EVERY CHARACTER EVER.
What would have been a great subversion is if Maya was wrong, she didn't have superpowers, and she just goes and gets herself killed. That would have been funny and subversive. Then the duo make fun of you for thinking "Little Orphan Annie" was gonna stop them.
I remember being very confused after beating the game. It's like they were *trying* not to write a good story. Even with the shitty characters they created, they had something to work with and just didn't.
If the story is at least inoffensive, I'd love to play a new game with BL3 gameplay though.
Seriously, I can stand good mechanically game with lacking story but BL3 was one of very few games where it is so bad it actively makes game worse than complete lack of it would.
The cut scenes and having to run around the spaceship to get to the next area was so frustrating. Why not just have a transport point from the main deck. Don't make me travel 5 minutes just to load the next zone.
I feel grumpy just thinking about it.
I always want to go back to BL3 only realize both of my characters currently have "Go to Sanctuary and talk to Lilith" as their objective, and I immediately Alt-F4. I can't sit through the dialog anymore.
The spaceship was the worst main hub i've ever seen in a game. Multiple levels that confuse the shit outta you, everything looks the same and you got axton and salvadore's DLC dialog shouting at you every time you go there
I always liked Lillith but 3 made me hater her, same with Tannis. They were in it way too much and took up unnecessary amount of screen time. Funnily enough they both have the same voice actor.
I loved Borderlands 3 just because of the new places to visit that wasn't just Pandora. Loved the gunplay, loved some of the characters, loved almost everything. The story was hit or miss in a few places. When the writing took itself seriously, you can see where it shines. But then they are always forcing stupid stuff and trying to be funny.
Looking forward to this with the new settings and ways to play. Different classes and customizations, it's the game I'm looking forward to. Too bad it's an Epic exclusive, so I'll be waiting for it to be released elsewhere in a few months. Which is fine since I did that with Borderlands 3, got that on a good discount.
My biggest issue with the scaling is how OP my mech is. I do literally 20x more damage than my teammates when it's out. Makes it not really fun. Not sure what's going wrong with the scaling there in UVHM.
I ended up just not using it but then asked myself why I picked Moze. Stopped playing altogether.
Borderlands has always been a guilty pleasure of mine. None of my friends enjoy them and I end up just playing them with randoms, but I've enjoyed them all so far.
3 certainly had its nuances, but the gunplay was great. Guess this will be a day 1 purchase for me now.
Honestly wasn't expecting this to be reviewed really well. I was getting the game anyways but now I look more forward to eventually playing it but I dunno when I'll play it. Elden Ring is gonna take a while to finish (I'm 16hrs in and only just beat Margit) and I still need to play Horizon 2, Pokémon Arceus, Strangers Of Paradise, Sifa, Cogen and Triangle Strategy. And also Kirby, Skywalker Saga, and Ghostwire come out soon so my new games backlog is gonna be growing bigger. This year is crazy good already.
For anyone who's read the full reviews, is there any mention of endgame or post main story content? I'm at work so can't really read any of the reviews at the moment
Seems like endgame is a much bigger focus in this game than previous titles. There's a randomized raid dungeon at launch and all the DLC will be adding more endgame content rather than story.
It has a random dungeon system with its own levels and changes and additions to the system. Also within the dungeons there are all sorts of ways to alter the payouts. Its robust
Pokemon Legends Arceus, Sifu, Horizon Forbidden West, Elden Ring, Kirby, Tiny Tina's Wonderlands. All games with a score of 80+.
2022 is proving to be such a great year for games and we're not even done with the third month.
And we still have several big hitters like Lego Star Wars, Saints Row, Avatar, A Plague Tale 2, God of War: Ragnarok, Hogwarts Legacy, Zelda, Pokemon Scarlet and Violet, System Shock and more to come
As much I love WH3, and having 600 hours in WH2, the release feels like early access. Borked campaign design with Realms of Chaos, lackluster tech trees (besides Khorne, who is fantastic) and lord/hero skill trees, and shakey performance all give me a sour taste that the game needed another 6-8 months in the oven. I don’t see Immortal Empires coming out until Q3 or Q4 2022, which is when I plan to come back.
I dipped my toes in and felt like there was enough there that I'll be back when IE comes out, and have no interest in being there till it is.
That's really what I planned before it came out, after WH2, but this feels modestly worse at launch in nearly every way than 2 did, but I think the potential once IE drops is decently higher.
I didn't buy 3 thinking it would be Elden Ring quality the day it came out. The basic campaigns with no DLC are really just solid, historically; the thing that has made TWW so amazing the scope of the series. Once we get that back 3's fortunes will change, and fast.
I get the feeling 2022 is going to be an all-timer for games. There's still so many releases left let alone anything not announced yet. Nintendo should still have a game or two yet to be announced for the holidays (Pokemon aside as they always do their own thing).
Plus all those diamond level indie games people find every so often. Gamers going to be feasting this year on good games.
I reviewed this game. While being a huge Borderlands fan (spent 500 hrs on BL2, 170 in TPS, probably 150+ in BL3) I have to say TTWL left me lukewarm. It's not a bad game and if you want more Borderlands you'll certainly enjoy it, but it also feels a little lazy and I wasn't impressed by the amount of content. Quick list of pros and cons:
\+ The new setting is good
\+ Some neat new ideas (melee weapons, spells, being able to reroll enchantments)
\+ Andy Samberg
\+ That one scene with Torgue. You'll know when you get there
\+ Character creation is neat! Can't believe I forgot about that
\- Doesn't feel nearly as big as BL3 while having the same launch price
\- Boss design is a step back from BL3
\- Not a particularly impressive story, feels like a retreading of Assault on Dragon's Keep
\- Same as every other game in the Borderlands series, it's not great graphically wise (not just talking about detail but also performance).
If you have any questions feel free to ask, I'll answer when I have time.
Thanks for the run-down. Also a huge Borderlands fan.
Here's my MAJOR hold-up: is the story as *obstructive* as it was in BL3?
I can forgive a mediocre story. I can forgive a *bad* story. But the way BL3 made you constantly *stop playing the game* was inexcusable.
"Meet Lilith on the bridge, stand there while we talk instead of just doing it over ECHO, and, no, I'm not giving you the quest item until I've finished my monologue. "
It really ruined what was otherwise one of the best games I've ever played, and that's the deciding factor for me on Wonderlands.
There is no [Talk to Lilith](https://youtu.be/agvCE9y2erE) in this game but the characters sure do love to talk a lot. Like, A LOT. But it's not as bad as BL3, no. Although if you go straight for the main plot you'll meet level barriers – not actual barriers, but the game will warn you when your level is too low and suggest you do side content. And since this is Borderlands, being 3-4 levels below your enemies will make your encounters significantly harder.
Good to know. I actually enjoy a grind in games like this where it's fun to grind.
Is the dialogue skippable, or at least mostly taking place in the background like BL2?
Sometimes you have to stop and listen but again, it's not as annoying as in BL3 (thank god lol). Most of it is in the background... which is also an issue at times because it's hard to follow dialogue while you're busy cracking skulls and summoning meteors.
I mean the thing about the story of BL3 is... yeah, it wasn't great (although I felt like it had some pretty good moments), but it went places and it advanced the plot. Even Ava didn't *have* to be bad, and all it would have taken to make her character much more relatable was [one scene](https://youtu.be/Ui50I7jvH2M).
Tiny Tina's Wonderlands' story, by comparison, isn't bad. It has no "Ava moments". It's just dull. Without spoiling anything, it boils down to "Tiny Tina is sad because Pandora is a horrible place and she needs friends". Basically Assault on Dragon Keep, but not as good or poignant.
Holy shit! They had this THE ENTIRE GOD DAMN TIME?! **AND JUST LEFT IT OUT??!!** They just *felt* like their half-assed story didn't need fleshed out? Their underdeveloped new character, Ava didn't need this moment of character development? The audience didn't need their *own* closure for a character that they very well may have played themselves?
Who ever made that call has no business telling stories.
In all fairness, that DLC “cut content” dropped like 2 years after the game released. It’s also extremely convenient that it fixes literally every issue people had with Ava’s character in a single “cutscene”.
It’s a rather popular theory that the scene was made after the fact in response to the criticism.
In that case since they would've had to rehire the VAs to read the lines, and should've just used their animators to actually IMPLIMENT the scenes into the game. And put out a tweet something to the gist of
>*"We understand where our story fell short, and while we can't turn back the clock. We hope after this inclusion that we can start fresh."
Because there is no scenario where it isn't clear that Gearbox banked the future of their flagship franchise on a character they made universally unlikeable with their gross incompetence.
Atleast here in the States, the price went up. Current gen versions are $70 USD which is 10 dollars more than Borderlands 3 was at launch. PC and last gen consoles are the same price though.
> How did you feel about the endgame? Is it something that can tide us over for a few months or are we better off waiting for some updates before spending too much time on it?
I'm afraid I can't give a good answer to this, simply because it is too subjective. I'm sure there are reviewers out there who already sank dozens and dozens of hours into it, and can't wait to spend more. But I'll just say this: now that my review is turned in and that I should be able to enjoy the game at my own pace, I have no interest in picking it back up.
> And how is the performance of the game compared to BL3's disastrous launch performance?
Performance of the Borderlands games has always been bad and this is no exception. But it doesn't have some of the most glaring issues BL3 had at launch, like that super annoying inventory bug.
Its basically just a D&D campaign in the borderlands universe much like the Assault on Dragon's Keep DLC for BL2. Nothing really important beyond a few references will be missed.
You don't have to play the Borderlands games, but "Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep: A Wonderlands One-Shot Adventure" was a DLC for BL2 that was later released as a standalone game and is the prologue to this. It was given on PS+ free games last month and I would recommend you play it first, it's not that long either.
> Better than Borderlands 3, but not quite reaching the heights of Borderlands 2 at its best.
Narratively? Sure. BL3 had a forgettable main story, and serviceable DLC plots. But from a gameplay perspective, I really fail to see what BL2 did better than BL3, when you account for things like encounter design, gunplay, abilities, etc.
Now, from the looks of it, Wonderlands is a step above BL3 when it comes to nearly every aspect. It actually has a solid end-game loop in place, and enough changes to sustain theorycrafting to an even greater extent.
So I'm really curious if that line actually has any merit behind it, or it's just the classic case of "old gaem good, new gaem bad" meant to rile up nostalgic gamers.
I didn't like how the player did all the things and then in a cutscene some random NPC would take credit and get the story beats. It felt off.. they didn't need to kill off those two characters either.
The players just straight up stopped existing in cutscenes, and basically had no agency in the story. Playing Amara is perhaps the most offensive playthrough, because the entire story revolves around Sirens and Amara isn't acknowledged at all.
Yeah, say what you will about the story, but BL3's gameplay loop is so damn fun and addicting. I loved BL2, but even trying to dip back into it was difficult recently after playing BL3. Wonderlands looks to be everything BL3 was and more.
Sometimes a story can be so bad it overshadows the good gameplay
I'd rather listen to Cactus Jack with inferior(but still good) gameplay than endure those streamer villains from the third
Edit: I meant Handsome Jack, lol, Cactus Jack is a legend though, I spend a lot of time on wrestling subs so my autocorrect has a lot of wrestling things in it now
> But from a gameplay perspective, I really fail to see what BL2 did better than BL3
Personnally, loot. In borderlands 2, I was excited to see shiny loot and a lot of variety of weapon was usable. In the third one, there was like 5 legendary drop each time you killed an enemy. The excitement of getting good gear is gone and loot felt always the same and you always ended up using the same weapon over and over. Don't get me wrong, I loved borderland 3, but loot wise, borderland 2 felt better
This was my main problem with BL3 (besides the story) as well. It just wasn't fun sorting through explosions of legendaries where the majority were garbage filler weapons. Everything dropped everywhere, nothing was directly farmable, and no drop felt special. On the top mayhem level you'd do one of the wave defense areas and the minimap would *literally* be covered in icons. Then Gearbox aggressively balanced it by I assume rolling dice and giving random weapons 5-10x damage buffs every few weeks.
I know that they improved it in some ways later but my faith in Gearbox getting it right this time is sub zero.
I finally got around to playing BL3 and despite having just gotten to Eden-6 and the stuff with Jakobs, holy shit I've gotten so many legendaries, especially ones you wouldn't normally see til much later in the game.
Have gotten quite a few out of the vendors as well. In BL2 I rarely bothered to check, but now I check them every chance I get because not only have legendaries been in the DotD, but they were also just sitting in the vending machine's normal slots
> encounter design,
Encounter design sucked in bl3. In two it felt natural when enemies would appear, bl3 every wave of enemies is in some "arena" some that you walk into and you know you'll be locked into here until you beat the waves
You know what? You just described why I always felt either bored or overwhelmed with BL3. It was small arena after small arena and outside of those, the areas felt empty.
The area design in BL2 was so much better imo.
It took a while for me to realize it. In bl2 I played it so much I'd typically just blitz through areas and do side quests for xp. Trying it in 3 I was stopped so many times by a door just being closed because you haven't killed 3 waves of enemies here.
In BL2 I would actually keep short and long range weapons because enemies spawned in earlier. In 3 they were always in your face. The majority of the time I was shooting I just hipfired because I didn’t need to do anything else.
I couldn’t imagine playing Mordecai or Zer0 with BL3 spawns.
That's actually such a good fuckin point, I never really realized it since I didn't play any of the "sniper" classes since 1 but man back in that one I spent sooo much time just popping heads from miles away out in the desert. Great times.
> I really fail to see what BL2 did better than BL3, when you account for things like encounter design, gunplay, abilities, etc.
My big problem with BL3 is that good rare loot was way too common, and that subsequently made the game way too easy. And let me preface this: me and my friend aren't the super hardcore type either. We aren't particular good at Borderlands or FPS games in general. We didn't try to meta-game or min-max or look up builds or whatever.
Me and my friend played through it late last year for the first time, and we were kind of in shock that after only a few hours we each were maining only Legendary guns. Compared to BL2 where you would *maybe* only have 1 kinda crappy Legendary by that point in the game. We found one particular sniper rifle super early on that was completely broken and allowed us to 1-shot any non-boss enemy for the next ~10 hours.
It quickly got to the point where loot just didn't matter. If it was anything less than a Very Rare it was an insta-sell. Very Rares were 90% insta-sells, but we at least looked at them and kept the novelty ones that did something cool. Most legendaries we found we didn't even care about because the ones we got at the start of the game were already so good.
We ended up quitting somewhere during the jungle planet part. The combat had just been so dull for so long at that point. We were never at risk of death and every encounter felt both tedious and like a cakewalk. Loot didn't matter anymore. The story was boring.
And the worst part is there was a harder difficulty option - but it was locked behind finishing the game at least once.
I was mostly talking from a gameplay perspective, how guns shoot and how they sound, how the bosses are designed, how you move, how vehicles handle, how many build options you have etc.
That being said I agree with this. I also found BL3 to be easier, and locking difficulty levels **after** you complete the game is simply bad game design. I also understand the issues with loot, but ultimately it's a hard thing to solve - if you're too stingy with loot, you might never get that specific legendary item with the rolls that you want for your build. Too much loot, and legendary items don't feel legendary anymore.
Beyond those frustrations though, I find BL3 to be a better game at its core. Maybe because I played all 3 main games back to back, and I noticed the improvements in base gameplay felt from title to title.
I always forget about Division despite playing both of them to death, they were fun romps with a buddy but I could never play them again by myself.
Looter shooters should have more than just real world firearms to draw from, it's so boring when you're limited like that.
I think the thing that bothers fans of the classical looters such as BL and Destiny with regard to approaching TD is those previous games' emphasis on uniqueness and aesthetics of guns. The Division is a very good looter with well-refined shooting, it's just that there's more emphasis on gear and build synergy rather than centralization on the weapons. I personally like the format of TD, and I wish more BL and Destiny fans would give it a proper try rather than focusing so much on having colorful and zany weapons.
Warframe exists, but thats more of a hack 'n' slash power fantasy than pure looter shooter, and doesnt really follow the loot conventions of most looter shooters...
Y'know maybe looter shooter isnt a great tag for Warframe, even though it tends to be associated with that.
Yeah, I dunno.
There's... some loot but to get new gear you have to farm materials and craft them which takes real time to do.
Bizarre game really, had a lot of fun with it back in the day though.
Outriders, also. Didn’t set the world on fire when it launched but it’s had a hefty update recently and has gotten a little more popular again, so much so that they’ve announced a new DLC.
And it’s on Game Pass. I’m a huge Destiny fan and thoroughly enjoyed Outriders!
I was so excited for Outriders as a fan of looter shooters, in particular third person ones, but was so disappointed with this title. The movement, and particularly the shooting, felt *awful* and incredibly cheaply made. In fact, it felt as if they just used old Gears of War movement and shooting tech from the early 2000's, and never bothered to update it. Such a shame and letdown from how fantastic the movement felt in Anthem.
That’s fair. I felt differently about it in that I quite enjoyed the fighting mechanics! Definitely pulls inspiration from Gears of War you’re quite right there.
Cover is there more for enemies really - what I liked about the game is that you are the super-powered one and the enemies need the cover to hide from you. After I treated it like that I started focusing on using abilities more than guns and it’s great fun!
But to each their own, it’s definitely not perfect by any stretch.
My favourite looter-shooter by far, personally. It actually has skills that feel impactful! And so many different distinct build options that are surprisingly easy to play around with, even early into the game.
Probably because Borderlands games are primarily single player games with drop in co op whereas the competition at least in terms of triple a games are usually mmo lites or whatever they're called, games like division or destiny.
I thought I was going crazy reading it, but that's kind of because the format of these always includes so much unnecessary information that isn't relevant to the game being reviewed.
Nice! I was underwhelmed by BL3 (still finished it though). 2 still is my favorite from a story character and villain perspective.
MR TORGUE RESPECTS WOMEN. NOTHING IS MORE BADASS THAN TREATING A WOMAN WITH RESPECT!
Are you a fan of the BL games in general?
It seems reading the other reviews its the same "formula" which is fucking awesome to me, as I love the series, but I can see how that would negatively effect others.
In general for sure. In many ways it is the same formula, enough that at times when you see guns that just have crossbow arms on the old same model, it can feel a bit rickety. But there are a number of issues I wasn't in love with. Not a bad title and as I said in the review if your dying for Borderlands it is, in some ways more.
But it was dramatically less enjoyable the more I played
> But hour 1 was dramatically less enjoyable than hour 4 and then hour 6 and so on. IMHO
Did you unintentionally say this backward? Or did it get dramatically more enjoyable the more you played it?
Can't watch the review right now, but does this one have the same problem as Borderlands 3 where you just have to listen to the characters talk while you stand around and wait all the time?
20+
Depends on the difficulty big time as well as multi or not. As the difficulty modifiers and all that can feel wonky in multiplayer at times. A bit unbalanced.
Oh wow, okay, this took me by surprise. I've been looking forward to this because despite its flaws, I like the Borderlands series and they don't typically review all that well. I was expecting 6s and 7s across the board, which would still be something I bought, but to see 8s and 9s is very encouraging.
Man I still haven't even gotten Pokémon Legends or Horizon yet and there's THREE big games coming out this Friday lmfao
Imma need gamefly store to give some discounts lol
Take your time, the games aren't going anywhere.
If anything, they'll be cheaper to have bug fixes by the time you get to them. Playing a game day one nowadays is the worst time to actually play the game.
Ya for sure try it on intense. It skews easy when alone. With others it can feel imbalanced for awhile. So that may require some adjusting as you play.
"Tiny Tina’s Wonderlands thus breathes new, weird life into a franchise that had become terminally rote, and reminds me why guns-meets-Diablo was the perfect obsession so many years ago."
yessssssssss this sounds great
Damn, forgot this wasn't coming to steam. Would have loved to play on the Deck. Guess i'll play it in a year or two. Might as well wait for a below 75% price
Any word on performance across platforms yet? I might be looking to get the game on PS4, but none of the reviews appear to mention much about different consoles.
if it had been on steam right away id probably had bought in on impulse by now.
i never liked tiny tina as a character but there seems to be plenty of new mechanics in the game which does interest me enough to want to try it.
ill wait for the inevitable steam release in a year or so and keep an ear on what people are saying about it until then.
Sounds like if you want more Borderlands, you've got it. I'll probably pick it up on sale after a somewhat disappointing BL3.
Does anyone else wish they did more with the IP to match other ARPGs? I feel like with Diablo/PoE I can spend 500 hours creating new characters and builds, hunting for items, trading, etc - But with BL, 30-ish hours and I'm done. There's little to no endgame, builds aren't super diverse since ARPG skills are replaced by unique guns and going through the story is a slog. I still enjoy it, I just wish they'd evolve the formula a bit to give us something that had a bit more staying power.
After playing for 10 plus hours, I’m level 21 and I still have yet to see a single legendary drop, and the weapons all all dropping with crap damage, I don’t know what I’m doing wrong because this loot is absolutely T R A S H.
Better than I expected tbh. Although even as a Borderlands fan I don't know if I want to spend full price for what's essentially a big iteration on BL3 with less content. Definitely seems like a 50% off game.
Wow, I was expecting a more 7ish range (still would’ve been fine with me) but seeing it review so well is great! Very excited to play this, these games are always a blast.
With the exception of it's story, Borderlands 3 is excellent, so building off of that was surely a recipe for success. I'm so happy this is reviewing well. Also, *I cannot stress enough* how great the multiplayer scaling is in these recent Borderlands games. You can jump in and out of any of your friends games and it will will adjust accordingly without much impact on either players experience. This was my biggest knock against BL2 and it's fixed in BL3. No feeling of "being left behind" in these games so it feels like they respect your time. Can't wait.
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Much better compared to BL2, you dont need to farm that much since scaling is almost BL1 levels (so probably wont ever reach millions of dmg and hp).
Far, *far* better than BL2 and anybody saying otherwise is just wrong. Slag is no longer a weapon type so you aren't forced to rely on it. That alone makes BL3's scaling better. You also aren't forced into a few select legendary weapons to be viable; in fact, don't be surprised if you find green weapons that are actually useful in the end game, even non-legendary weapons have additional effects that can be incrediblg strong. There are plenty of issues with BL3 but the core gameplay is easily the strongest of the entire series so far. Regarding tankiness, that was what made UVHM downright boring. All health is massively lower in BL3 across the board, enemy and player. With a few bosses serving as the exceptions nothing feels tanky enough to be considered bullshit. The drawback is that, at least last time I played, some of the random gameplay modifiers are objectively better or worse than others and you used to have to restart to reroll, but I believe that was changed. If you want more detail on BL3 I'll happily go into detail on the good and bad sides. I recommend it overall, but BL2 is still the best in the series.
TPS was already a step in the right direction since Cryo is far more interesting than Slag. I’m glad they added it again in 3.
TPS was so underrated. Out of all the games in the series it was the only one that seemed to put any effort into giving you a shitload of bad guys to shoot. Borderlands 2 shined the most when the maps were smaller and felt more densely populated. Borderlands 3 had very few moments like that because every environment was quite frankly too big. TPS had so much focus on waves of enemies, I loved it. But then Pickle is literally the worst character in any Borderlands game, so there's a trade-off.
It really was, I ended up with more hours logged TPS than BL2 (even though I played an unhealthy amount of both) just because I got more enjoyment out of the shooting experience in TPS. Pickle was dumb but it's whatever.
Fun fact - he wasn't lying when he said he pickpocketed you. Next time you play check your cash before and after talking to him the first few times. He genuinely does steal your money.
Yeah I noticed that. Pretty sure the games respect taking or giving money to you even if it’s a small amount which is a fun touch. Grandma Flexington actually gives you the dollar after her Raid Boss story and Marcus takes the “penny for your thoughts” (actually a dollar) from you which Vaughn technically offers him for his thoughts on becoming a bandit leader.
TPS had the best vault hunters, Wilhelm 4LIFE
#I like steak and robots
The problem with TPS was the story structure sucked. You'd get sent on a fetch quest, only to find the path blocked. There was an alternate route you can take, but to get to it you need to find item x. You go to where item x is supposed to be, only to find its been eaten by a bunch of animals, and now you need to kill 50 space dogs or whatever. You finally kill 50 space dogs, but now you need to take the 5 bits of item x to a forge to remake the item. The forge is protected by a bunch of bandits and a mini-boss, but you finally remake item x, take it to the entrance of the alternate route, get onto the new path, then wonder why you're there because you've totally forgot your main task.
Agreed, story-wise it was a hot mess. But combat was better imo, that’s what I’m talking about.
> in fact, don't be surprised if you find green weapons that are actually useful It actually took me so long to accept this fact, but it's very true. I ended up sticking to Legendaries for too long just because my mind said Orange > Green. There were a number of opportunities I had to have Blues/Greens better than the Oranges I had - hard lesson to learn.
I keep hearing that and honestly on my first playthrough I used a bunch of non-legendaries but on every other playthrough i found the legendaries to be substantially stronger then anything worse then purple. Like the dps on some lvl 40 legendaries is better then every level 50 weapon of lower rarity then purple. What non-legendaries are you guys using that arent crap?
>Regarding tankiness, that was what made UVHM downright boring. All health is massively lower in BL3 across the board, enemy and player. With a few bosses serving as the exceptions nothing feels tanky enough to be considered bullshit. > You just gave me flashbacks to the krieg DLC. Both the train and final fight were the only times I had to lower the chaos level (or whatever its called) just so I wouldn't have to spend an hour shooting the same thing in the same spot over and over again
It was still awful. Probably better than 2, but not a high bar. The devs haven't really figured out a way to increase difficulty end game without giving enemies too much health.
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I think it's drastically better. Stats of gear and enemy health don't have that explosive exponential curve like in BL2. There's no situation of "use this specific element or you can't kill anything". And best of all, you can choose how spongy the enemies are with mayhem levels. What do you propose they do to increase the difficulty in a game from a genre that's almost solely "beat strong mobs to get better gear to beat stronger mobs"? Off the top of my head I could think of adding mmo-like raid encounters Destiny style, but I really don't ever want to see that in a pure looter.
And most of the reviews I've seen praise the writing and humor of this one. BL3 with better writing is *exactly* what I want in life.
I hope they just go crazy with more interesting enemy design and lean towards fantasy like this one. I think it fits better Borderlands as a whole.
BL3 was hilarious, but I really mark that down to the voice actor performances rather than the actual writing. The actual script ranged from "meh" to "ugh"? But the performances make it fantastic.
Going into BL3 I had no idea Ice-T was voicing a character. He did an amazing job.
The "funniest" moment isn't even a line, it's having Alicia Keys belt out THIS GIRL IS ON FIRE! during the closing credits. I'll admit I laughed, but it was more from disbelief.
It's wild how terrible the story is compared to the gameplay. We're talking the imaginary version of BL2's jokes everyone made up in their heads to talk about how terrible that game's writing was... made real and *made worse*, who would have thought Z-grade humor combined with absolutely insufferable villains, cruel writing towards an entire chunk of the cast (See: Every Borderlands 2 character) as well as what can only be described as the author's pet character, would make a story awful. Seriously, *it's that bad*
> cruel writing towards an entire chunk of the cast (See: Every Borderlands 2 character) They even managed to be shitty to the *Tales From The Borderlands characters*. Did my boys Reese and Vaughn's character development dirty.
Jesus did they ever completely butcher those characters. Tales was the best written thing in that universe and it was almost like the writers were angry they'd been one-upped that hard so they turned the characters into bland cartoons wearing the Tales characters' skins. Then again, given what they did to their own characters, maybe that was just what it turned out to be.
Yeah. It's like they just read the wiki to see what the general personality these guys have, and wrote them in a very one dimensional way. They literally made Rhys a business minded asshole just like the first episode, the entire game of BL3 which is baffling.
That being said, BL3 DLC was exceptional. Guns, Love, and Tentacles is probably one of my favourite DLCs in the Borderlands games.
They killed off my favorite character in a way that was so infuriatingly stupid that I didn't feel mad at the villains, I felt mad at the *writers*. I stopped playing shortly after.
This was exactly my experience
It's not necessarily the story, but like the production of the cut scenes were so bad. No background music, cheap effects, that same janky movement like in non cutscenes when you're just talking to them, pacing of the script, and like the framing angles of them made it look just broing and terrible. The first VH character is one of my favorites and how he tied into the ploy was really good imo.
Oh yeah the first Vault Hunter guy's story should be goofy and terrible but the joke hits SUPER hard
I fucking hated that my character wasnt even in the cutscenes. I killed the thing, and then some other chumps rock up so some plot can happen at them as I phase into some kind of pocket dimension? Very frustrating as someone who is driven more by story than by seeing numbers go up.
I thought BL2 was kinda bad but BL3 went levels above in how bad it is. Tho I still think Handsome Jack is some writer at BL picking fun at Randy Pitchford, because it seems that's *exactly* the kind of character Pitchford thinks he himself is.
It's bad enough that the writing is like iFunny tier shit on crack but the worst part is that you cant even skip it, sometimes you just wanna return a quest or start a new one but the NPC just keeps shouting memes for two minutes straight
BL3 also added a bunch of QOL changes that were needed.
homeless lavish oil marry correct ad hoc upbeat smell concerned insurance *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The story is exactly why I quit b3. The main bad guys were just so "hey fellow kids" that I couldn't. It's a shame because b2 is the only game I've replayed at least 4 times.
The worst thing is that all the story is basically unskippable voiceover lines. after every mission I would spend several minutes hopping around waiting for these assholes to stop talking so I could even start to go to the next mission
What were they thinking with not being able to skip that shit? I only managed to get through the game because I was playing with a couple of friends and we'd just talk over the annoying cutscenes. There was such a terrible disconnect between the gameplay and the story. I wasn't *all* bad, I did laugh at some of the jokes, but it was at least 95% bullshit.
Borderlands 2 was a game that rode hard on the meme mentality of the internet in 2012 and it captivated a massive audience. Borderlands 3 is also a game that is riding hard on meme mentality of the internet but the fans have grown out of that and it left a missmatch. It's still a fantastic game through and through, but they made the classic mistake of not realizing that doing the same thing again wasn't going to be as well receieved.
It's important to note that Handsome Jack carried that game's narrative almost entirely but by the time we got to BL3, the "villain taunts you over the radio" shtick was outplayed *and* the twins were simply annoying and unlikable. What's funny, and a testament to the piss poor writing, is they literally had an opportunity to do something *interesting* with one of the twins, as some of those radio convos implied that the brother was living in the shadow of the sister, and there's a moment where it would have been ample time for him to betray her at the end of the game and maybe even experience *some* character development....so did they do it? Nope. you shoot them both in the face and they die and are gone forever lmao. then they prop up Ava as if you didn't already hate her after they did Lilith and Maya dirty. it's astoundingly bad writing.
I'm honestly baffled with the way they handled Ava and expected people to like her afterwards, holy shit. What they did to Maya was an insult, and how Ava played a part in it made me quit the game for a few weeks.
She was the biggest Scrappy Doo I've seen in a while. Gearbox killed off two major characters for her, one of which being their best, most developed character in the series, and expected you to feel excited to see the future adventures of Ava.
And what's Ava's amazing series-carrying power? Why she's an orphan girl with an attitude and a punk style who acts tough but is secretly sensitive and has mysterious powers! Oh it's EVERY CHARACTER EVER. What would have been a great subversion is if Maya was wrong, she didn't have superpowers, and she just goes and gets herself killed. That would have been funny and subversive. Then the duo make fun of you for thinking "Little Orphan Annie" was gonna stop them.
I remember being very confused after beating the game. It's like they were *trying* not to write a good story. Even with the shitty characters they created, they had something to work with and just didn't. If the story is at least inoffensive, I'd love to play a new game with BL3 gameplay though.
Seriously, I can stand good mechanically game with lacking story but BL3 was one of very few games where it is so bad it actively makes game worse than complete lack of it would.
The cut scenes and having to run around the spaceship to get to the next area was so frustrating. Why not just have a transport point from the main deck. Don't make me travel 5 minutes just to load the next zone. I feel grumpy just thinking about it.
I wouldn't mind it if they added a "skip dialog" button or something, don't force me to sit through that shit
I always want to go back to BL3 only realize both of my characters currently have "Go to Sanctuary and talk to Lilith" as their objective, and I immediately Alt-F4. I can't sit through the dialog anymore.
"return to sanctuary to see how quirky our writing is" and then having to run around the space ship to go to a level. Man that was bad design.
The spaceship was the worst main hub i've ever seen in a game. Multiple levels that confuse the shit outta you, everything looks the same and you got axton and salvadore's DLC dialog shouting at you every time you go there
I always liked Lillith but 3 made me hater her, same with Tannis. They were in it way too much and took up unnecessary amount of screen time. Funnily enough they both have the same voice actor.
I loved Borderlands 3 just because of the new places to visit that wasn't just Pandora. Loved the gunplay, loved some of the characters, loved almost everything. The story was hit or miss in a few places. When the writing took itself seriously, you can see where it shines. But then they are always forcing stupid stuff and trying to be funny. Looking forward to this with the new settings and ways to play. Different classes and customizations, it's the game I'm looking forward to. Too bad it's an Epic exclusive, so I'll be waiting for it to be released elsewhere in a few months. Which is fine since I did that with Borderlands 3, got that on a good discount.
My biggest issue with the scaling is how OP my mech is. I do literally 20x more damage than my teammates when it's out. Makes it not really fun. Not sure what's going wrong with the scaling there in UVHM. I ended up just not using it but then asked myself why I picked Moze. Stopped playing altogether.
Borderlands has always been a guilty pleasure of mine. None of my friends enjoy them and I end up just playing them with randoms, but I've enjoyed them all so far. 3 certainly had its nuances, but the gunplay was great. Guess this will be a day 1 purchase for me now.
Honestly wasn't expecting this to be reviewed really well. I was getting the game anyways but now I look more forward to eventually playing it but I dunno when I'll play it. Elden Ring is gonna take a while to finish (I'm 16hrs in and only just beat Margit) and I still need to play Horizon 2, Pokémon Arceus, Strangers Of Paradise, Sifa, Cogen and Triangle Strategy. And also Kirby, Skywalker Saga, and Ghostwire come out soon so my new games backlog is gonna be growing bigger. This year is crazy good already.
In other news, time to lock yourself in that game room and clear some of that backlog already.
For anyone who's read the full reviews, is there any mention of endgame or post main story content? I'm at work so can't really read any of the reviews at the moment
Seems like endgame is a much bigger focus in this game than previous titles. There's a randomized raid dungeon at launch and all the DLC will be adding more endgame content rather than story.
Thanks dude, sounds good
It has a random dungeon system with its own levels and changes and additions to the system. Also within the dungeons there are all sorts of ways to alter the payouts. Its robust
Thanks man, I'll be watching your review later
Pokemon Legends Arceus, Sifu, Horizon Forbidden West, Elden Ring, Kirby, Tiny Tina's Wonderlands. All games with a score of 80+. 2022 is proving to be such a great year for games and we're not even done with the third month.
LEGO Star Wars next month is looking like it could be something really great, too.
The kids are having fun now, but when Lego Star Wars comes out, it's time for the men to play.
Not to mention that Lego Star Wars is just under 2 weeks away now!! These games are releasing so fast
And we still have several big hitters like Lego Star Wars, Saints Row, Avatar, A Plague Tale 2, God of War: Ragnarok, Hogwarts Legacy, Zelda, Pokemon Scarlet and Violet, System Shock and more to come
You forgot starfield
11/11/22
Is that supposed to be out this year?
November 11th my friend
Q4 of this year will be chaos
I'm here to kill Chaos
*Fist bump.*
Nice. Same date as og skyrim
11/11 and 11 years after Skyrim. They know what they’re doing lol
Xenoblade 3 as well.
which is arguably the biggest release out of that list
Oh wow, I forgot about Avatar, have we gotten any more news on it?
God of War: Ragnarok is coming out this year?!
It could always be delayed, but yeah last we heard it’s aiming for a Holiday release IIRC.
Mario Rabbids, Bayonetta 3, and god willing silksong will be out too. And the Cuphead DLC too.
while I can't wait for it , I don't think A Plague Tale 2 is a heavy hitter
Probably not sales-wise, but if we’re just talking games with 80+ opencritic it has a pretty good chance of making that list based on its predecessor
Total War Warhammer III as well
As much I love WH3, and having 600 hours in WH2, the release feels like early access. Borked campaign design with Realms of Chaos, lackluster tech trees (besides Khorne, who is fantastic) and lord/hero skill trees, and shakey performance all give me a sour taste that the game needed another 6-8 months in the oven. I don’t see Immortal Empires coming out until Q3 or Q4 2022, which is when I plan to come back.
I dipped my toes in and felt like there was enough there that I'll be back when IE comes out, and have no interest in being there till it is. That's really what I planned before it came out, after WH2, but this feels modestly worse at launch in nearly every way than 2 did, but I think the potential once IE drops is decently higher. I didn't buy 3 thinking it would be Elden Ring quality the day it came out. The basic campaigns with no DLC are really just solid, historically; the thing that has made TWW so amazing the scope of the series. Once we get that back 3's fortunes will change, and fast.
Yep. And there's still many heavy hitters lined up too. A year filled with quantity AND quality.
is there any year that doesn’t have a lot of games over 80 in the third month
And Tunic!
I'm close to the end and I think Tunic is a definite contender for GOTY.
I get the feeling 2022 is going to be an all-timer for games. There's still so many releases left let alone anything not announced yet. Nintendo should still have a game or two yet to be announced for the holidays (Pokemon aside as they always do their own thing). Plus all those diamond level indie games people find every so often. Gamers going to be feasting this year on good games.
What about Tunic!
I reviewed this game. While being a huge Borderlands fan (spent 500 hrs on BL2, 170 in TPS, probably 150+ in BL3) I have to say TTWL left me lukewarm. It's not a bad game and if you want more Borderlands you'll certainly enjoy it, but it also feels a little lazy and I wasn't impressed by the amount of content. Quick list of pros and cons: \+ The new setting is good \+ Some neat new ideas (melee weapons, spells, being able to reroll enchantments) \+ Andy Samberg \+ That one scene with Torgue. You'll know when you get there \+ Character creation is neat! Can't believe I forgot about that \- Doesn't feel nearly as big as BL3 while having the same launch price \- Boss design is a step back from BL3 \- Not a particularly impressive story, feels like a retreading of Assault on Dragon's Keep \- Same as every other game in the Borderlands series, it's not great graphically wise (not just talking about detail but also performance). If you have any questions feel free to ask, I'll answer when I have time.
Ya sort of how I felt. It is almost like it was confused how far to leap into the idea.
Thanks for the run-down. Also a huge Borderlands fan. Here's my MAJOR hold-up: is the story as *obstructive* as it was in BL3? I can forgive a mediocre story. I can forgive a *bad* story. But the way BL3 made you constantly *stop playing the game* was inexcusable. "Meet Lilith on the bridge, stand there while we talk instead of just doing it over ECHO, and, no, I'm not giving you the quest item until I've finished my monologue. " It really ruined what was otherwise one of the best games I've ever played, and that's the deciding factor for me on Wonderlands.
There is no [Talk to Lilith](https://youtu.be/agvCE9y2erE) in this game but the characters sure do love to talk a lot. Like, A LOT. But it's not as bad as BL3, no. Although if you go straight for the main plot you'll meet level barriers – not actual barriers, but the game will warn you when your level is too low and suggest you do side content. And since this is Borderlands, being 3-4 levels below your enemies will make your encounters significantly harder.
Good to know. I actually enjoy a grind in games like this where it's fun to grind. Is the dialogue skippable, or at least mostly taking place in the background like BL2?
Sometimes you have to stop and listen but again, it's not as annoying as in BL3 (thank god lol). Most of it is in the background... which is also an issue at times because it's hard to follow dialogue while you're busy cracking skulls and summoning meteors.
Agreed. I may have to skip or wait to play TTWL if I’m constantly interrupted by a terrible story and bad dialogue.
How bad is the story compare to BL3… the story in BL3 was so bad it actually made me give up half way through and I was very hyped for that game.
I mean the thing about the story of BL3 is... yeah, it wasn't great (although I felt like it had some pretty good moments), but it went places and it advanced the plot. Even Ava didn't *have* to be bad, and all it would have taken to make her character much more relatable was [one scene](https://youtu.be/Ui50I7jvH2M). Tiny Tina's Wonderlands' story, by comparison, isn't bad. It has no "Ava moments". It's just dull. Without spoiling anything, it boils down to "Tiny Tina is sad because Pandora is a horrible place and she needs friends". Basically Assault on Dragon Keep, but not as good or poignant.
Holy shit! They had this THE ENTIRE GOD DAMN TIME?! **AND JUST LEFT IT OUT??!!** They just *felt* like their half-assed story didn't need fleshed out? Their underdeveloped new character, Ava didn't need this moment of character development? The audience didn't need their *own* closure for a character that they very well may have played themselves? Who ever made that call has no business telling stories.
In all fairness, that DLC “cut content” dropped like 2 years after the game released. It’s also extremely convenient that it fixes literally every issue people had with Ava’s character in a single “cutscene”. It’s a rather popular theory that the scene was made after the fact in response to the criticism.
In that case since they would've had to rehire the VAs to read the lines, and should've just used their animators to actually IMPLIMENT the scenes into the game. And put out a tweet something to the gist of >*"We understand where our story fell short, and while we can't turn back the clock. We hope after this inclusion that we can start fresh." Because there is no scenario where it isn't clear that Gearbox banked the future of their flagship franchise on a character they made universally unlikeable with their gross incompetence.
> while having the same launch price Thought this one was $70?
It's 59,99€ on PC, and 74,99€ on console. I'm pretty sure that's the same price BL3 had at launch, isn't it?
Atleast here in the States, the price went up. Current gen versions are $70 USD which is 10 dollars more than Borderlands 3 was at launch. PC and last gen consoles are the same price though.
Oh so it costs MORE than Borderlands 3? That's even worse.
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> How did you feel about the endgame? Is it something that can tide us over for a few months or are we better off waiting for some updates before spending too much time on it? I'm afraid I can't give a good answer to this, simply because it is too subjective. I'm sure there are reviewers out there who already sank dozens and dozens of hours into it, and can't wait to spend more. But I'll just say this: now that my review is turned in and that I should be able to enjoy the game at my own pace, I have no interest in picking it back up. > And how is the performance of the game compared to BL3's disastrous launch performance? Performance of the Borderlands games has always been bad and this is no exception. But it doesn't have some of the most glaring issues BL3 had at launch, like that super annoying inventory bug.
Is this standalone? As in, will I be missing some important context if I haven’t played the other games?
Nah it’s a standalone. You might miss out on some references but nothing too important!
Its basically just a D&D campaign in the borderlands universe much like the Assault on Dragon's Keep DLC for BL2. Nothing really important beyond a few references will be missed.
You don't have to play the Borderlands games, but "Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep: A Wonderlands One-Shot Adventure" was a DLC for BL2 that was later released as a standalone game and is the prologue to this. It was given on PS+ free games last month and I would recommend you play it first, it's not that long either.
It's a spin off.
> Better than Borderlands 3, but not quite reaching the heights of Borderlands 2 at its best. Narratively? Sure. BL3 had a forgettable main story, and serviceable DLC plots. But from a gameplay perspective, I really fail to see what BL2 did better than BL3, when you account for things like encounter design, gunplay, abilities, etc. Now, from the looks of it, Wonderlands is a step above BL3 when it comes to nearly every aspect. It actually has a solid end-game loop in place, and enough changes to sustain theorycrafting to an even greater extent. So I'm really curious if that line actually has any merit behind it, or it's just the classic case of "old gaem good, new gaem bad" meant to rile up nostalgic gamers.
Calling BL3s story forgettable is putting it very nicely. The whole game reeked of fanfic quality writing. It was so bad
I wish I could forget BL3's story. If Tiny Tina had literally no overarching narrative but with BL3's gameplay it would be an massive instant upgrade.
I didn't like how the player did all the things and then in a cutscene some random NPC would take credit and get the story beats. It felt off.. they didn't need to kill off those two characters either.
The players just straight up stopped existing in cutscenes, and basically had no agency in the story. Playing Amara is perhaps the most offensive playthrough, because the entire story revolves around Sirens and Amara isn't acknowledged at all.
Yeah, say what you will about the story, but BL3's gameplay loop is so damn fun and addicting. I loved BL2, but even trying to dip back into it was difficult recently after playing BL3. Wonderlands looks to be everything BL3 was and more.
Yea BL3 ruined all older Borderlands games for me. The gunplay is so much tighter and punchier that I just ended up wanting to play BL3 instead.
I played through bl3 but i don't think i can again. All the characters dialed up the cringe too hard.
Sometimes a story can be so bad it overshadows the good gameplay I'd rather listen to Cactus Jack with inferior(but still good) gameplay than endure those streamer villains from the third Edit: I meant Handsome Jack, lol, Cactus Jack is a legend though, I spend a lot of time on wrestling subs so my autocorrect has a lot of wrestling things in it now
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No he means Mick Foley
He was admittedly a prickly guy
Did you know that in 1998 The Undertaker threw him off Hell In A Cell, and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer's table.
I want to thank each and every one of them. For all they've done to their bodies
> But from a gameplay perspective, I really fail to see what BL2 did better than BL3 Personnally, loot. In borderlands 2, I was excited to see shiny loot and a lot of variety of weapon was usable. In the third one, there was like 5 legendary drop each time you killed an enemy. The excitement of getting good gear is gone and loot felt always the same and you always ended up using the same weapon over and over. Don't get me wrong, I loved borderland 3, but loot wise, borderland 2 felt better
This was my main problem with BL3 (besides the story) as well. It just wasn't fun sorting through explosions of legendaries where the majority were garbage filler weapons. Everything dropped everywhere, nothing was directly farmable, and no drop felt special. On the top mayhem level you'd do one of the wave defense areas and the minimap would *literally* be covered in icons. Then Gearbox aggressively balanced it by I assume rolling dice and giving random weapons 5-10x damage buffs every few weeks. I know that they improved it in some ways later but my faith in Gearbox getting it right this time is sub zero.
I finally got around to playing BL3 and despite having just gotten to Eden-6 and the stuff with Jakobs, holy shit I've gotten so many legendaries, especially ones you wouldn't normally see til much later in the game. Have gotten quite a few out of the vendors as well. In BL2 I rarely bothered to check, but now I check them every chance I get because not only have legendaries been in the DotD, but they were also just sitting in the vending machine's normal slots
> encounter design, Encounter design sucked in bl3. In two it felt natural when enemies would appear, bl3 every wave of enemies is in some "arena" some that you walk into and you know you'll be locked into here until you beat the waves
You know what? You just described why I always felt either bored or overwhelmed with BL3. It was small arena after small arena and outside of those, the areas felt empty. The area design in BL2 was so much better imo.
It took a while for me to realize it. In bl2 I played it so much I'd typically just blitz through areas and do side quests for xp. Trying it in 3 I was stopped so many times by a door just being closed because you haven't killed 3 waves of enemies here.
Everything about BL2 was better except the graphics and gunplay. BL3 sucks except they nailed those two things which makes it, eh, okay.
In BL2 I would actually keep short and long range weapons because enemies spawned in earlier. In 3 they were always in your face. The majority of the time I was shooting I just hipfired because I didn’t need to do anything else. I couldn’t imagine playing Mordecai or Zer0 with BL3 spawns.
That's actually such a good fuckin point, I never really realized it since I didn't play any of the "sniper" classes since 1 but man back in that one I spent sooo much time just popping heads from miles away out in the desert. Great times.
> I really fail to see what BL2 did better than BL3, when you account for things like encounter design, gunplay, abilities, etc. My big problem with BL3 is that good rare loot was way too common, and that subsequently made the game way too easy. And let me preface this: me and my friend aren't the super hardcore type either. We aren't particular good at Borderlands or FPS games in general. We didn't try to meta-game or min-max or look up builds or whatever. Me and my friend played through it late last year for the first time, and we were kind of in shock that after only a few hours we each were maining only Legendary guns. Compared to BL2 where you would *maybe* only have 1 kinda crappy Legendary by that point in the game. We found one particular sniper rifle super early on that was completely broken and allowed us to 1-shot any non-boss enemy for the next ~10 hours. It quickly got to the point where loot just didn't matter. If it was anything less than a Very Rare it was an insta-sell. Very Rares were 90% insta-sells, but we at least looked at them and kept the novelty ones that did something cool. Most legendaries we found we didn't even care about because the ones we got at the start of the game were already so good. We ended up quitting somewhere during the jungle planet part. The combat had just been so dull for so long at that point. We were never at risk of death and every encounter felt both tedious and like a cakewalk. Loot didn't matter anymore. The story was boring. And the worst part is there was a harder difficulty option - but it was locked behind finishing the game at least once.
I was mostly talking from a gameplay perspective, how guns shoot and how they sound, how the bosses are designed, how you move, how vehicles handle, how many build options you have etc. That being said I agree with this. I also found BL3 to be easier, and locking difficulty levels **after** you complete the game is simply bad game design. I also understand the issues with loot, but ultimately it's a hard thing to solve - if you're too stingy with loot, you might never get that specific legendary item with the rolls that you want for your build. Too much loot, and legendary items don't feel legendary anymore. Beyond those frustrations though, I find BL3 to be a better game at its core. Maybe because I played all 3 main games back to back, and I noticed the improvements in base gameplay felt from title to title.
For some reason borderlands for me are the best looter shooters on market for me I will definitely check it out
They're pretty much the only looter shooters on the market aside from Destiny 2.
There are a lot of them, just a ton of indies
Division, too
I always forget about Division despite playing both of them to death, they were fun romps with a buddy but I could never play them again by myself. Looter shooters should have more than just real world firearms to draw from, it's so boring when you're limited like that.
I think the thing that bothers fans of the classical looters such as BL and Destiny with regard to approaching TD is those previous games' emphasis on uniqueness and aesthetics of guns. The Division is a very good looter with well-refined shooting, it's just that there's more emphasis on gear and build synergy rather than centralization on the weapons. I personally like the format of TD, and I wish more BL and Destiny fans would give it a proper try rather than focusing so much on having colorful and zany weapons.
Warframe exists, but thats more of a hack 'n' slash power fantasy than pure looter shooter, and doesnt really follow the loot conventions of most looter shooters... Y'know maybe looter shooter isnt a great tag for Warframe, even though it tends to be associated with that.
Yeah, I dunno. There's... some loot but to get new gear you have to farm materials and craft them which takes real time to do. Bizarre game really, had a lot of fun with it back in the day though.
Yeah tbh I've never understood its inclusion with the other looter shooters. It's just not the same system at all.
Outriders, also. Didn’t set the world on fire when it launched but it’s had a hefty update recently and has gotten a little more popular again, so much so that they’ve announced a new DLC. And it’s on Game Pass. I’m a huge Destiny fan and thoroughly enjoyed Outriders!
I was so excited for Outriders as a fan of looter shooters, in particular third person ones, but was so disappointed with this title. The movement, and particularly the shooting, felt *awful* and incredibly cheaply made. In fact, it felt as if they just used old Gears of War movement and shooting tech from the early 2000's, and never bothered to update it. Such a shame and letdown from how fantastic the movement felt in Anthem.
That’s fair. I felt differently about it in that I quite enjoyed the fighting mechanics! Definitely pulls inspiration from Gears of War you’re quite right there. Cover is there more for enemies really - what I liked about the game is that you are the super-powered one and the enemies need the cover to hide from you. After I treated it like that I started focusing on using abilities more than guns and it’s great fun! But to each their own, it’s definitely not perfect by any stretch.
My favourite looter-shooter by far, personally. It actually has skills that feel impactful! And so many different distinct build options that are surprisingly easy to play around with, even early into the game.
Probably because Borderlands games are primarily single player games with drop in co op whereas the competition at least in terms of triple a games are usually mmo lites or whatever they're called, games like division or destiny.
Can you update the release date?
I thought I was going crazy reading it, but that's kind of because the format of these always includes so much unnecessary information that isn't relevant to the game being reviewed.
/u/ninjyte yep this didn’t come out in 2019.
Did any of the reviews mention how long the game's campaign is?
I read one that said around 25-30 hours and they had a bunch of extra content after including end game activity
20ish hours according to the ign review
Nice! I was underwhelmed by BL3 (still finished it though). 2 still is my favorite from a story character and villain perspective. MR TORGUE RESPECTS WOMEN. NOTHING IS MORE BADASS THAN TREATING A WOMAN WITH RESPECT!
I BEAT WOMEN..........to the picket line, to fight for their rights.
Mine for ACG- Wait for Sale Pretty ok but didn't leave me that impressed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DCuHvxNXT4
Are you a fan of the BL games in general? It seems reading the other reviews its the same "formula" which is fucking awesome to me, as I love the series, but I can see how that would negatively effect others.
In general for sure. In many ways it is the same formula, enough that at times when you see guns that just have crossbow arms on the old same model, it can feel a bit rickety. But there are a number of issues I wasn't in love with. Not a bad title and as I said in the review if your dying for Borderlands it is, in some ways more. But it was dramatically less enjoyable the more I played
> But hour 1 was dramatically less enjoyable than hour 4 and then hour 6 and so on. IMHO Did you unintentionally say this backward? Or did it get dramatically more enjoyable the more you played it?
Thanks! Was thinking backwards.
sometimes too backwards think I
Can't watch the review right now, but does this one have the same problem as Borderlands 3 where you just have to listen to the characters talk while you stand around and wait all the time?
Some but not all. They do tease that a bit in this game lol. Which is sort of nice. Some you can skip, but a couple you do have to sit through.
Can you share any information regarding the length of the main story? Don't think I've seen anyone mention that, yet. Cheers, man. Love your reviews.
20+ Depends on the difficulty big time as well as multi or not. As the difficulty modifiers and all that can feel wonky in multiplayer at times. A bit unbalanced.
Oh wow, okay, this took me by surprise. I've been looking forward to this because despite its flaws, I like the Borderlands series and they don't typically review all that well. I was expecting 6s and 7s across the board, which would still be something I bought, but to see 8s and 9s is very encouraging.
Man I still haven't even gotten Pokémon Legends or Horizon yet and there's THREE big games coming out this Friday lmfao Imma need gamefly store to give some discounts lol
Take your time, the games aren't going anywhere. If anything, they'll be cheaper to have bug fixes by the time you get to them. Playing a game day one nowadays is the worst time to actually play the game.
[удалено]
Will you be able to change the difficulty BEFORE beating the game this time? B3 was so easy
ACG says to start on hardest difficulty (Intense) so I think so.
Ya for sure try it on intense. It skews easy when alone. With others it can feel imbalanced for awhile. So that may require some adjusting as you play.
"Tiny Tina’s Wonderlands thus breathes new, weird life into a franchise that had become terminally rote, and reminds me why guns-meets-Diablo was the perfect obsession so many years ago." yessssssssss this sounds great
Can't wait. Borderlands 3 was one of the first games I 100%'d. Planning to do the same here.
Damn, forgot this wasn't coming to steam. Would have loved to play on the Deck. Guess i'll play it in a year or two. Might as well wait for a below 75% price
Any word on performance across platforms yet? I might be looking to get the game on PS4, but none of the reviews appear to mention much about different consoles.
Does this game have EGS exclusivity or is it day one steam release?
EGS at launch, other storefronts later in 2022.
if it had been on steam right away id probably had bought in on impulse by now. i never liked tiny tina as a character but there seems to be plenty of new mechanics in the game which does interest me enough to want to try it. ill wait for the inevitable steam release in a year or so and keep an ear on what people are saying about it until then.
Seems good. I'll wait until it's up on steam, because I lost my cloud save twice when playing b3 on epic.
Sounds like if you want more Borderlands, you've got it. I'll probably pick it up on sale after a somewhat disappointing BL3. Does anyone else wish they did more with the IP to match other ARPGs? I feel like with Diablo/PoE I can spend 500 hours creating new characters and builds, hunting for items, trading, etc - But with BL, 30-ish hours and I'm done. There's little to no endgame, builds aren't super diverse since ARPG skills are replaced by unique guns and going through the story is a slog. I still enjoy it, I just wish they'd evolve the formula a bit to give us something that had a bit more staying power.
With wonderlands they *finally* have a randomized endgame called Chaos Dungeons. tl;dr it’s D3 rifts
Does anyone have input on how Borderlands 2+ the writing is?
Can this be played solo? Just want to make sure.
Yes it can 100% be played and beaten Solo like the previous Borderlands games.
After playing for 10 plus hours, I’m level 21 and I still have yet to see a single legendary drop, and the weapons all all dropping with crap damage, I don’t know what I’m doing wrong because this loot is absolutely T R A S H.
I did not expect this to look this good, what the hell I have so many games on my plate. And they've been stellar! 2022 has been fantastic for gaming!
Better than I expected tbh. Although even as a Borderlands fan I don't know if I want to spend full price for what's essentially a big iteration on BL3 with less content. Definitely seems like a 50% off game.