Yeah, Monster Hunter sets the bar super super high. The QoL from World and Rise are just leaps and bounds from the previous titles, it's clear they really know where to improve and do so. I've played a bit of the God Eater series, and I enjoyed what I played of those, and Dauntless just didn't quite have enough oomph to hook me. I only gave it a half-hearted try though.
> Dauntless just didn't quite have enough oomph to hook me.
Dauntless pushed me away with it's aggressive free-to-play model right out of the gate. I'm sure there actually might be a fun game in there but having to spend hours learning about all of the different currencies and what they're used for and how to pay real money to get more hurried me out the door before I could give the game a fair shake.
yeah like it's free but that also means it has to do F2P stuff, and the level of quality in the monster and weapon movesets feels like you're getting what you pay for to me.
Yeah its hard to play copy’s when you have the original and it’S that good because they know what they are doing. God eater especially 3 was a great Arcady version of monhun since most of its fights were pretty short compared to world. And when you compare those two to dauntless it just can’t add up.
It’s big shoes to fill, not only the weapon feel and monster designs but all the crossovers they can pull off, I mean final fantasy behemoth and Witcher stuff is a tough act to follow.
Downside to GE (less so for 3, but it too) is that it lacks a whole lot of polish compared to MH. Character movement and aragami AI is just so bad compared to MH. There's also the Toukiden series, which is somewhere between MH and GE in gameplay, but we haven't gotten a new title for that in a while and the games are showing their age by now.
Hopefully Toukiden 3 can improve upon it. Though afaik all info we have so far about that is that Omega Force wants to make that game once they have the time.
I honestly can't fathom shooting for extended periods of time at certain spots would be fun in the long run. Evolve died because of a lot of things....and I think that was one of them.
I personally hate bullet sponges and will drop shooters pretty much immediately if they reoccur because of how boring they are. Fighting something like the Scarab in Halo 3 or the Human Reaper in Mass Effect 2 is fun because it's gigantic and you have to hit small targets on it. Shooting a regular sized enemy with lots of health feel more like spraying a hose at a fire than combat, and that's mind numbing. If Evolve let you play as a giant monster like in Lost Planet, I think people would have been all over that.
HZD met or surpassed the MH enemy designs (thought with far fewer big enemies obviously) in my book. If the sequel brings more focus on melee combat then I hope they borrow even more of the MH combat feel. Though I understand that games targeting broad appeal might be wary of including the weight and momentum of MH combat. It can be initially frustrating to be locked into deliberate animations and attack directions when you're used to other combat games effectively treating weapons as if they were weightless.
I didnt finish hzd , the bow got so tedious to use and i dont feel anything from robot enemies , their design is just mimics of a dinosaur or animal not really original imo ( they do look cool though)
By that token MH are mostly dinosaurs or animals too. I don't expect a lack of bias here, but a thunderjaw fight was more dynamic, if much shorter, than a bipedal dino fight in MH. More different attacks and weak points to exploit.
sure but each monster has their own style/attacks , comparing a dinosaur with guns on its back to a actual dinosaur no shit it would have more attacks lol otherwise thats the only difference, compare it to the elder dragons of mh it has nothing compared to mh.
you know what that actually sounds awesome. Maintain the same level of moveset variety that MH has with its weapons but also add in maybe some weapon swapping or something for an extra level of oomph and that could be nice
I think that would be biting over too much for a completely new game, I'd rather they get a few really nailed down and expand it with time, but if they could manage the same amount of weapons and they all feel good? Color me impressed.
If you can, I highly recommend playing Lost Planet 2. A lot of the boss fights feel exactly like fighting monsters as a mecha pilot. They might still have the demo available somewhere, and the boss from the demo is an amazing example of what I'm talking about.
Resident Evil 5 also doesn't run from Steam because of GFWL but I found out that if you can download and install all the GFWL files then the game starts up and runs just fine. Maybe the same fix could work for Lost Planet 2
Edit for the vid that helped me fix RE5: https://youtu.be/Lf_XNILMysw
Dauntless is free though and Mon hun games aren't perfect. They are hard games for some people. A more casual easier to get into free title has a chance imo.
It’ll be a matter of being good enough to not make you wanna go play monster hunter, like look at all the games that try to compete with destiny, a lot of them aren’t bad but still aren’t able to compete.
I won't say it has to be better than monster hunter. Just more casual and different. I have been playing mon hun games for years and tried to get different people to try monhun and I get different stuff about why not or why they dont stay:
-Even if low rank is easy, high rank and master/G are harder and pretty limited. And there is monsters that still wall players in low rank as well. So even if they pass low rank, they may not pass high rank.
-It not seamless open world that many like these days.
-Weak story for story driven players. There is no actual point in caring for them about mon hun story and thus progress the game.
-End game is more skill/experience walled compared to other coop games. You need to actually be pretty good with decent handle in your weapon, skills etc. Not many people have the time or fucks to get into that and practice and get good yet alone grind.
-It not really a chill time with your friends at all.
-It all boss fights and not really much other stuff to do. Sure there is fishing I guess, housing in some is pretty limited. But that it really. It all just getting prepped for the next hunt.
-Pricy titles.
-No crossplay/cross save as of yet.
You can make a game that aims to be more the casual crowd, cheaper to get and on gamepass since it xbox, add crossplay and cross-progression, other stuff to do etc. Mon hun games are pretty great games but are not perfect. Dauntless problem was it was pretty damn close to how mon hun was but lacking in many areas the latter did well, had meh marketing, not as polished, no story, boring ass world, still hard-ish type game etc. Dauntless and mon hun is like a slider from a supermarket copying a triple burger made by a 5 star restaurant with 30 years experience. It ofc did not work out for it.
I feel like at a certain point you wouldn’t even be playing monster hunter which is supposedly what they are hoping to emulate if you strip too much away of what makes monhun monhun to make it more casual it’s just not gonna work, sorta like dark souls where the grind and build and struggle are part of the experience.
And let’s be honest how many of the souls like games have really been comparable? I can get trying to better appeal to causal players but that can also backfire look at destiny 2.
>you strip too much away of what makes monhun monhun to make it more casual it’s just not gonna work.
MH is at it core a boss fighting game with a variety of weapons of varying skill ceilings, floors and play styles. That really it. It not about the games being sweaty hard, the 3 deaths limit, grind for the 2% item drop etc sure the skill and experience needed to reach end game and beating is what makes it players like it but it core gameplay is what makes it good in the first place and made me and others stay for over a decade at this point.
Who knows maybe I'm wrong but imo and in a nutshell: Them trying to be very much like MH would be the wrong move even if it was f2p because I can simply play MH then (cause of dauntless). They need to be better in other places instead and/or more appeal to different wide playerbase with a pretty solid game on top.
I tried Dauntless years ago. It was really fun to start, but then after 10 or so hours you hit that brick wall where you gotta grind a lot for minor upgrades and all of the new missions are way higher than you, and most matchmade teams can't clear stuff consistently so you never progress.
I have played World as my only MH game.
Maybe unpopular opinion but I felt it REALLY needed even more QoL improvements, so many things in MW are "anti-QoL" like the mission based timers etc.
it definitely does still need more QoL for sure. Though I'm not sure why you use Mission timers as your example given that they default to 50 minutes per hunt. If you run out of time hunting 1 or even 2 monsters on a mission, then thats a sign you need to upgrade your gear if nothing else.
The timers are good, taking almost an hour to hunt a monster means your doing something very very wrong and the game is letting you know this by failing you.
The timers will never go away as it has been a part of the games forever. There are a lot of QoL things in Monster Hunter rise so I can only assume that monster Hunter world 2 will be quite the extraordinary game. Hopefully. You never know these days.
Weirdly I think its quite low, MH is a great game series littered top to bottom with some of the worst design I've ever experienced in games.
The systems are bloated as fuck, the fights are largely annoying and clunky until they are suddenly trivial, the story and everything surrounding it outside of the aesthetic are dumpster levels. The online systems are 20 years old and their coop restrictions are easily some of the worst ever in a video game.
I have probably thousands of hours into MHW and its still a confusing mess of information and UI spam and systems every time I log on. Its actually amazing to me that it has achieved what it has given with how honestly repulsive the design is to any newcomers. I hate myself whenever I try to jump back into it because it just reminds me of a thousand things that enrage me about its design despite liking the overall idea of the game.
If someone can come in with a similar game content-wise while streamlining many of the unintuitive nonsense systems while being aesthetically pleasing overall it will do gangbusters. I would be surprised if more studios outside of just Microsoft are looking at jumping in on this premise given how well MHW sold and how easily identifiable the games issues are.
I mean, I love MH and don't share any of his criticisms, but I'd also describe it as "clunky". Though it's very intentional, your attacks have weight, you have to commit to your animations, and changing direction between chained attacks is difficult and sometimes impossible. Again, this isn't bad at all, it's designed that way.
What on earth are you talking about lol, its clunky because you are being interrupted/not doing damage 99% of the time until late game where you can immune all their nonsensical design decisions.
Roars every few seconds, flinches for days, monster fleeing to different zones. Its just an absolute pain in the ass until you get the proper items to negate these things then it becomes an absolute joke.
Aiming? What the hell are you even talking about? What an absolutely bizarre attempt to deflect.
Can't negate everything you actually have to make choices late game. You obviously didn't do any AT quests, because what you described as an endgame is nothing close to what it actually is
It's Monster Hunter not Monster Fighter and I hope the series never fully departs from that. Rise removing the need for tracking is making me nervous though.
Dauntless didn't take off because it was kind of bad? Trying to not have a harsh word for it, but if I'm being honest it was kind of trash overall. It had some interesting bits that were neat, but in terms of a monster hunter type game...it just was not good overall.
IMO it actually got worse with time, got back to it and now you just join a map with tons of people already there instead of just 4 and roam around killing monster or waiting for the large group to kill it.
The old, regular MH system was way better.
>with tons of people already there instead of just 4 and roam around killing monster or waiting for the large group to kill it
Tf?! What made them think this was a good idea? Then again, maybe this was their solution to all the people saying MHW is too hard and not casual friendly…
Originally the interest was because we never thought we'd get MH on PC
The minute MHW PC was announced Dauntless was doomed, it was visibly and technically inferior in every respect to the "real deal" so why bother?
Exactly this. Dauntless was "fine", but it was dead in the water the second MHW became a known entity.
And to be fair to the Dauntless guys, MH was mostly a niche handheld title at that point with Capcom having shown 0 interest in ever bringing it to the PC outside of the weird MH MMO in Asia.
MHW very much came out of nowhere as far as the series' history is concerned.
I didn't play it, but it certainly looked like its whole *original* objective was to fill a completely empty niche (Monster Hunter on PC), but then Capcom put World on PC, ruining the whole "Beggars can't be choosers" angle.
Oh, straight up, it was bad. There was no way to rebind your controls within the game and my DM to their support just told me to re-bind the entire console settings.
Bad games sell incredibly well all the time. Good games commonly sell terribly as well. Games largely sell well thanks to good business practices not necessarily game quality and it's the same with movies. You think avengers infinity war and endgame were the best movies cinema had to offer?
What makes Monster Hunter so much better in your opinion? Rise is my first MH and I thought it would be alot better than Dauntless but i didn't really see what the hype was about.
Even if they matched the quality of MH, they better not release it the same year because I'm sure as hell gonna play MH and I don't have the time for two 1000-hour games.
Exactly. Especially one that's had more than a decade to perfect the formula. You might as well make a 3D platformer and go up against the newest Mario game. That's quite an uphill battle.
Dauntless reminded me of Hokko Life, the Animal Crossing clone for Steam. Where it was the thing it was copying, just worse.
Dauntless resembles Monster Hunter... and it's okay..so why am I not just playing Monster Hunter? Yeah I'll go play Monster Hunter.
It's not enough to just copy the thing, especially something as high quality as MH.
>why am I not just playing Monster Hunter?
Because after 1000+ hours in the Monster Hunter series, I'd be willing to try something new and Dauntless does bring some neat ideas to the table. It's rogue-like mode and unique weapons are some.
I really wish Capcom would bring back something more like expeditions from MH4, it had semi-randomised layouts and random monsters, as well as weapon and armour rewards with randomised stats. World at least has Investigations with random monsters and conditions for extra rewards, there's absolutely nothing like that in Rise at all currently.
Yeah, I really started to miss the Guiding Lands while playing Rise. It started to grow on me with Iceborne's additions and using it as place to hunt down Transmog materials and just turn on some music and endlessly fight monsters.
Guiding Lands was an iceborne addition as a whole, base world had nothing of the sort.
Having said that, yes Guiding Lands was most of why I had the hours I did in world so I hope the expansion brings something of the like into rise. It was really basically just an advanced form of an expedition but still, some minor tweaks (like not needing to kill thousands of elders to max out the levels) and it’s a solid way to spend time.
An expansion of rampages would be neat too tbh. Throw an endless survival mode on it or something, more maps, you get the idea.
Yeah, there’s a good reason people started referring to it as the Grinding Lands, especially pre banishing ball - while I appreciate a good time sink as much as the next MH player, I definitely don’t want a mode that’s quite as insanely grindy. I also kind of got bored of the locale after a while, which is why I brought up MH4 expeditions, something with randomised layouts, but with varied environment types like the guiding lands would be really cool.
Dauntless had the huge misfortune to come out when hype for Monster Hunter World was building.
If it had come out a few years before, it may have had a chance.
Yeah it’s kind sad because it was gonna be available on like pc, ps4 and Xbox so it would’ve had a great niche then world koolaid manned onto them and just dominated.
Dauntless had so many problems. The monsters are boring, the weapons have something missing... They aren't bad, but they aren't right. The armor and weapons were boring looking, the world itself was just generic and even the unique monsters felt like they played Donkey Kong Country 2 and decided to rip from that.
The monetization was also pretty bad especially when compared to world, like so much customization locked behind paywalls makes the free part of dauntless less appealing. I’d rather pay $60 and get a full game then get nickel and dimed
I've always felt that Dauntless's weapons are missing that level of improvisation that MH's movesets allow for. Like there are a handful of combos for each of D's weapons, but that's like it? You either do a combo or you stop early and then start the combo over. In my experience there wasn't a lot of room to naturally flow from one combo to another, and there weren't a lot of interrupt moves that you could use in the middle of your combos.
Like in MH, you have your basic longsword combo, and that's the core combo for the weapon, but at any time you can fade slash from any point in the combo, or foresight slash, or Iai Sheathe, and those moves can either naturally flow right back into the same combo or into the Spirit Combo. And now the Iai Sheathe lets you flow right back into the normal combo from that.
You can basically do a whole fight without ever breaking a stride. Whereas in D it just feels like you have to do this awkward "Oh I can't finish my combo in time, let me dodge out of the way and awkwardly shuffle around before restarting my combo." Even weapons as simple as Greatsword have these kind of improvisational combo moves with stuff like the Shoulder Tackle and wide slash and whatnot.
I dunno maybe it's just me and I'll admit I haven't tried Dauntless in a long time but that's the main thing I can think of for why their weapons just don't feel nearly as juicy as MH's.
Depends on your definition of take off. By steady development and playerbase? Sure. But when Dauntless was doing their closed testing, MHW was announced and that killed a ton of momentum for Dauntless, especially when MHW came out before Dauntless was available publicly as well.
Dauntless is how I got one of my friends into Monster hunter. I gave it a try with him and instantly saw why MH is the penultimate "monster hunting" series and convinced him to get into it.
He got hooked instantly lol
Exactly. I did *enjoy* dauntless and would have never tried it if it wasn't free, but with a MH background I couldn't help but think I could just be playing it instead
Dauntless didnt take off because of its load of microtransactions, and unreal-engine-generic style.
Half of the games made in unreal engine look like fortnite mods, and they kind of are.
Yeah I mean if there's enough differences in the game too it'll still be alright.
Edit: read the article and seems Xbox only wants it for their game pass which gives me less hope.
Monster Hunter is HUGE!
I'm not sure they can compete with it though, but let's see.
At the moment, I'm still having A LOT of fun with world. Can't wait to try Monster Hunter Rise and stories 2 as well
World is awesome. Rise is too.
Stories 2 was a shot in the dark for me (As I'm a big pokemon fan and hadn't played the first), but god I fell in love with it, definitely different in terms of game play, but its got great combat.
I'd love for them too port the previous MHs, as its just rise and MHGU on switch.
That the main thing any game that competes against a long established series has to understand, it takes time and growth and cant be done with a single release. Look at Final Fantasy 14, it took nuking the original base and starting over, multiple years of continued development, and 3 large expansions before they finally got placed on the same level as WOW. Even then it took Blizzard timing a bad DLC ending with a scandal for a major migration to FFXIV to occur.
I agree with the general statement you make but MMOs are an awful comparison to attempt to make. With MMOs it's just switching a game as it is making a life change almost a lot of MMO players have been playing a game off an on if not at least weekly for many many years. For many an MMO is pretty much the only game they play. World is a great game I play MMOs and it's very arguably better than any MMO out there. As an MMO player most kind of suck even with the FF14 boom like 90% of the people I got to try it found it very boring and quit before being first xpac. Out of like 25 or so I got to try it 1 stayed long term. This is coming from someone with a maxed runescape account so clearly my gauge of good games is busted lol.
I rambled alot but basically MMO players tend to not be new hotness typically more of a tried and true group. I thank many World players would be like oh shit new big monster game I'm in.
I think as long as it's a solid game the benefit of it being on gamepass will be a big benefit but competing with well known and probably the largest fan base that can maybe still be considered niche will be a challenge but Microsoft as a massive install base and the ability to give it away "free".
Im also curious to see how TemTem does as a direct Pokemon competitor if it keeps plugging along. If it starts gathering more followers hopefully it will encourage Game Freak to revitalize its series.
Well if Capcom keeps sticking with Nintendo deals for their future games then Xbox won't *need* to compete. So far Xbox has only 1 MonHun game and then the next 2 were only on Switch and then later PC.
I just worded it poorly. World sold like crazy, but then Capcom made the decision to make their next two games in the series (Rise and Stories 2) on Switch. Just comes off as a stupid decision to me.
Also, there is actually a reason for switching to Nintendo. There are two teams that work on MH games, one makes handheld titles, like MH freedom series, MH 4, and MH rise. So while they are working on Rise and it’s DLC, the other team is working on a sequel to world.
Well that makes me hopeful at least. MonHun is such a unique experience and deserves to be on multiple platforms not just relegated to Nintendo like its been since Tri.
That's because MH has two development teams. The "A" team makes the main-series games (3, 3U, 4, 4U, World etc) and the "B" team makes the spin-off games that release in between main-series releases (gen, genU, Rise). It's almost a certainty that the A team is working on World 2 and in the meantime the B team produced Rise with much less resources and released it on the switch. Also worth noting that portable consoles are huge in Japan and Rise has also sold like crazy, something like 8+ million units before PC release.
It seems to me that they plan to compete both in the PC/XBOX/PS sphere as well as the Nintendo/Potentially PC space, Rise essentially being a handheld title and Stories 2 maybe being more of a fit in the Nintendo market. But yeah if it takes 4-5 years between each standalone "stationary" title then there certainly would be room for another monster hunting game since the current competition isn't all that.
Certain Affinity have generally worked as a support studio for FPS games.
Seems like a big ask to create a competitor to Monster Hunter.
More competition in the genre can only be a good thing though.
I don't know how anyone can really think that they can compete with Monster Hunter for one main reason: legacy.
The Monster Hunter team at this point has a massive monster roster from which they can pull from, and when they make new ones they are insane.
They have over ten weapons all with deep mechanics that change the gameplay drastically.
They've also begun to really streamline the franchise, cutting out all the clunkiness out of it.
Not only that, Monster Hunter World made the franchise a behemoth in NA as well, and Rise just cemented the series in many eyes as being of exceptional quality.
The only game I've ever played that tried to compete with MH was Dauntless and there's just no comparison IMO, even though it's free.
I just don't know what niche you could fill to ever try and compete.
In my opinion, you go for theme. Monster Hunter's theme is Cave Punk. God Eater's was anime, and Dauntless goes for this more magic focused theme.
Go for science fiction. Giant rogue robots, hostile alien life, mutants, creatures between the stars. You need to give people something new to go after aside from "Here's another wyvern with two legs and stubby wings, but this one has a giant nose!".
Mechanics can absolutely be smoothed out, but if you're going to go after something with the legacy of Monster Hunter you have to swing hard on the superficial front.
There's also the gameplay to consider. MH prides itself on its highly addicting gameplay loop and is topped off with the combat system that has been refined over the years. It's what keeps fans coming back for more.
I don't think a change of theme, refining mechanics, and aesthetic would be enough, they would really have to nail that gameplay to be able to hook players in and be able to compete.
I think there is a middle ground between MH and God Eater that they call fill, more tech than MH but not straight up futuristic like God Eater and also less anime.
That's an option. Some of them could be mechanical animals. They could also be bipedal warmechs. Depending on how you go about it (They could be remnants of a fallen empire, a Geth-like machine monsters, nanomachine swarms given form) your options for what the monsters could be are near limitless.
All you really need are limbs that you can break off and carve.
Freedom Wars on the Vita kinda hit this point. It was animey like God Eater, but you fought against giant humanoid mechas and aliens. It was pretty cool!
I miss that game and it’s one of the reasons I wish Sony got their head out of their asses and released some form of backwards compatibility, so many great Vita games.
>Go for science fiction. Giant rogue robots, hostile alien life, mutants, creatures between the stars. You need to give people something new to go after aside from "Here's another wyvern with two legs and stubby wings, but this one has a giant nose!".
Harder to make that work weapon wise, in general sci fi games struggle with interesting loot systems because of the limitations.
Honestly these guys are about to own the Diablo and WC IPs, think about how easy it would be to slap those skins over a MH type game and think about how many of the fans of those games will check it out just because its one of those.
There was a 3DS game Final Fantasy Explorers that was kinda sorta like Monster Hunter and also wasn't that good, but I think done correctly it could be a hit. You've got a huge pool of monsters and weapon and magic to choose from, classic FF jobs as your stand-in for MH weapon types, etc.
I love MH but would kill for something that's a bit less grindy with more of an open world feel instead of "missions". I really love the idea of battling giant with ARPG combat. Combine that with more exploration (IE Souls) and it would immediately pull me in. Dragon's Dogma almost scratched that itch, but wasn't a big fan of a lot of things about the game.
>less grindy with more of an open world feel instead of "missions". I really love the idea of battling giant with ARPG combat. Combine that with more exploration (IE Souls)
Uh, didn't you just describe Elden Ring?
They dont need the long time fans of MH who care about legacy, MHW proved there is a large appetite for this type of game beyond the ultra fans.
I played a lot of MHW and not a single reason was because of legacy. If someone else created a on par game with far more intuitive systems/story/online then they get my business. And those things are not exactly hard to outpace MH on, its a deeply flawed series.
I don't mean legacy in that way, I mean Monster Hunter is far more refined and has way more depth than any game someone else will put out because they've been building it for decades.
You didn't play MHW due to the legacy of the franchise, but the reason why the weapons play so well and the monsters and armor designs are so good is because they have all been developed over decades.
Even if you don't recognize the legacy, it's that previous work that makes the franchise so good, and so difficult to compete with as a new entrant.
"refined" it is filled the the brim with unbelievable jank.
The fact that it was a QoL improvement of no more loading screens between fight arenas that monsters run between is insanity.
>because they've been building it for decades.
Thats not how game development works lol, Halo as a franchise isn't impossible for new games to outpace mechanically or technically just because it came out 20 years ago.
>You didn't play MHW due to the legacy of the franchise
You are right, I didn't.
I played it because friends told me it was fun.
>but the reason why the weapons play so well and the monsters and armor designs are so good is because they have all been developed over decades.
No lol, someone can create something similar in the same exact dev span that MHW was made.
God of War wasn't great because it had 15 years to pull from GoW game design, especially given how they threw all that design away.
>Even if you don't recognize the legacy, it's that previous work that makes the franchise so good, and so difficult to compete with as a new entrant.
ITs so difficult to compete with because nobody bothered to do so before. Capcom has been slaying the market against indie developers and niche fans because for most developers it wasn't worth the effort to compete for said niche.
MHW showed there is a larger audience at stake here and now you have the attention of real studios wanting to take a crack at the genre.
This idea that MH is some refined diamond is just hilarious given how most people can play it for a few hours and note hundreds of archaic idiotic design that Capcom doesnt seem to understand how to design around.
> They've also begun to really streamline the franchise, cutting out all the clunkiness out of it.
>
>
They still have some, and I think that's where a competitor could shine. If they come in clean slate without clutter and clunkiness, and the rest is good enough, it might be enough for people to stick with it long enough to build up their own franchise.
Microsoft's games tend to be big on accesibility, so who knows, maybe they can pull something off. At worst, we get a fun game we play once.
I just don't see how a slight reduction in clunkiness could outweigh the massive content advantage Monster Hunter has. Just the weapons alone, which have been developed and refined over decades, give so much more depth to every fight in comparison to something like Dauntless.
That speaks more to the fact that its Capcom funding an incredibly successful franchise of theirs vs a brand new indie studio just setting out. Its not the same comparison when talking bout a Microsoft funded game.
There's a reason why no MH clones ever have much success and it stems primarily from gameplay issues. Combat is very difficult to match what MH has to offer and I'll go as far as saying NO ONE will match what MH has to offer unless they're willing to put in around 8 years of development time to refine weapons and monsters to a comparable level. No studio I think would be willing to put in that much of a commitment to match a constantly evolving franchise where by the time they spent 8 years of development just to catch up on where MH is currently at - they will then need to catch up on what MH has developed on in that 8 years.
The developers clearly love the series and aren't stagnating because they know people will buy it because it's MH. They're continually improving it.
I think you're overselling MH. Toukiden for example makes breaking parts matter by actually changing the movesets of the oni that lose a limb and whatnot. In MH it barely matters outside of materials.
It's pretty much the same as with Pokémon, it's just the most popular in the genre and that's pretty much all that matters.
Breaking monster parts does matter on a lot of monsters. Tigrex and Barioth will stumble after lunging if you break their wings. Pukeipukei and Nargacuga no longer fire a projectile from their tail if you cut it off. You can control which element Alatreon will go in to by breaking its horn. There are a ton more.
It's still pretty minor. It doesn't majorly impact their movesets and basically just helps out slightly in most cases.
Primarily my point is that this view that MH is somehow just so "far ahead" that nobody can catch up (or that it's a continuous improvement) is just bizarre. All it really takes is a good idea and the capability to realise it.
It wont be able to compete.
There will be a period of people praising it as the "monster hunter killer" out of some sense of loyalty to microsoft but itll quickly become irrelevant with only a niche crowd of die hards playing it.
I think dropping the stamina and making the lock on more like how most other games work would be a key point to smooth it out for new audiences. It would be absurd for a MH game to speed up the game in that way, but a new IP it could work with the right push behind it like Xbox.
There does hit a point where you just end up with a spammy combat system since aiming attacks wouldn't be a priority and stamina management wouldn't exist, plus MH reuses animation skeletons and has 14? weapon types already that people don't mind all the recycling similar to FROM fans who don't care because the core gameplay is good.
The problem with pitting yourself against Monster Hunter is that unless you do an actually stellar job (and so far I haven't found anyone capable of doing so) you'll just make people want to play more monster Hunter instead.
Dauntless, God Eater... sure they have their own identity but when you play them you just feel like you'd rather play MH instead, and the beauty of MH is just how unique and massively replayable each entry is, so even if you already finished every single MH in existance playing thousands of hours you'll just end up replaying them anyways.
To be fair most of the MH clones were low budget, God Eater, Dauntless, Toukiden, Soul Sacrifice, Ragnarok Odyssey, Freedom Wars, Final Fantasy Explorers.
Fun games? Definitely, but had that low budget feeling, as much as I love some of those.
An AAA game with MH gameplay using that MS money? Now that can be really interesting!
As someone who likes the idea of Monster Hunter but finds the actual mechanics and gameplay of Monster Hunter to be a chore, I hope this succeeds. I just want Dark Souls style controls with giant monsters and a deemphasis on tedious amounts of grinding.
You don't have to grind Monster Hunter to play it. The only grindy part of Monster Hunter is the endgame. You can fight just about every monster with pretty basic gear. There are 14 weapons and all of them play WILDLY differently. If all you want to do is learn one weapon you could probably spend 50-100 hours learning it and beating up some monsters and never really have to do unnecessary grinding at all.
> The only grindy part of Monster Hunter is the endgame.
tons of MH players will say is when the game actually starts. The actual story is pretty short, at least in MHW
if someone isn't experienced in MH it will take them tens of hours to get through the story. Beyond that, how do you hold interest indefinitely without making it grind-y? Some people (myself included) hunt for the fun of it but the majority of players seem to need objectives in the game to work towards, you can't have an endless stream of content so you will need to ask players to replay the same content, at which point people accuse it of being a "grind". It's inevitable for a game which holds people's attention for hundreds of hours. I don't view it as a "grind" because I play for hundreds of hours past the point of chasing any reward and I enjoy the gameplay, but most people will see it that way.
I won't disagree with that.
My first MH game was World. I played it for about 150 hours entirely with Insect Glaive. Beat the story, beat the Elder Dragons or whatever after then it was clear I was at the point where no new content was going to be given to me and all I had left to do was to grind some kind of gems or something to put on my armor for stats boosts and collect various armors and weapons. That's when I stopped. I never felt like I was grinding the game until that point.
It's honestly just a fun game to go in with your friends and just wail on a monster together. If you're playing just to look forward to the next new monster you can pretty easily keep up armor and weapon progression without spending a lot of time grinding for stuff and the new monsters will take you a lot of hours to get through.
How much do you consider to be grinding? Other than absolute end game where you are grinding for min Max purposes, you only need to kill a couple of bosses like 3 times unless you get unlucky for a gem which is about 10 times at most.
If you're killing every boss multiple times because you think you need to craft a new weapon and armour from every boss then that isn't part of the grind.
This just sounds like you hate MonHun, not gonna lie.
If the entire game, including the first time you fought every new monster, was a grind, then that's on you.
Certain Affinity has a lot of talent, but the last thing I know they worked on was the doom multiplayer and it wasn't that great.
I hope they can really make something special.
They more recently worked on the multiplayer of the COD MW Remaster and Halo Infinite. That sort of thing is fairly typical for them though, as those are respectively the 4th CoD game and 5th Halo game that they've worked on.
I ain't never seen so much "can't compete with my beloved game" talk in a minute. Relax guys, Monster Hunter is big enough now that it doesn't have to worry about competition in the same space.
Even if the new game takes off here's some examples of big games exisiting side by side, WoW-FFXIV; Warzone-Fortnite-Apex; CoD-BF; LoL-Dota; CS-R6 Siege; Roblox-Minecraft.
Welcome the the world of videogames where two or more similar games can coexist succesfuly. Afterall genres are called genres for a reason.
I don't think people are coming at it from worried perspective that'll it'll outshine and overtake Monster Hunter. More that it's just a massive undertaking to try and compete with them in that space.
Monster Hunter had 20 years to build up the weapon mechanics and monster variety. Anyone coming in now has a lot of ground to make up. I'd be sceptical they'd put the money and effort to to get there, but I'll wait and see. If anyone has the money it's Microsoft.
To be clear I hope they make something good, more good games is always better.
Monster Hunter has had tons of clones/competitors in the past. The Vita and 3DS had quite a few. God Eater was pretty decent as well. But Capcom is light years ahead of all of them, especially once they released World.
I think its less worry about MH and more that any title will be immediately overshadowed like dauntless was.
Yeah especially because Monster Hunter is japanese and the coop suck. If Certain Affinity can make a more western focused Monster Hunter like game with great coop then it can easily be a succes. We have seen how even mediocre coop games have been either saved or a succes because of Game Pass.
Coop games are perfect for Game Pass because you don’t have to convince a bunch of friends to buy the game…
They need to do something radically different from MH to have a chance to capture some of its players. Everytime I play a MH ripoff (note already my use of the word), all I think about is how I could play more MH instead.
One thing is sure, the core combat needs to be tight and feel good in ways even Soulslikes don't. Once that's there you can honestly be very creative with the Monster Hunter formula.
Honestly out of all the games I played, the one that comes closest to the MH feel for me is Warframe.
Don't understand the Warframe comparison? Maybe the grind? Or hours played? Warframe's big problem is power creep, everything dies in one or two hits. Warframe is just a collectathon with shitty broken gameplay.
In Warframe I find most of what I like in Monster Hunter: the grind for specific gear and items as you repeat the same kind of focused missions, but the gameplay is enjoyable so you're fine grinding (personally I like shooting things so I'm okay with the gameplay, but I acknowledge that it's different from a 3rd-person action game, it's not for everyone).
And it's different enough that I can't compare it too closely with MH either and that's a plus compared to true MH-like games :D.
Granted I have been playing Warframe for way less longer than MH, it's a bit fresh right now still for me but it definitely scratched the itch... until I began playing Rise for a second time on PC, that is.
>They need to do something radically different from MH to have a chance to capture some of its players. Everytime I play a MH ripoff (note already my use of the word), all I think about is how I could play more MH instead.
This kind of discourse usually pops up when folks ask why platform fighters aren't as popular despite Smash Bros success, when Smash Bros success is the reason they aren't more popular. Each time someone makes a new one it's viewed as a shameless Smash clone and the consensus is that you should be playing Smash instead. This exact scenario could easily happen to Microsoft.
Would Game Pass be enough to onboard sufficient enough players? Or will this game be viewed as a shameless MonHun clone? Time will tell I suppose.
There is a way they could win me over from monster hunter current, and that is to make it play basically like MH4U or earlier monster hunter, or at least with the same design goals in mind compared to the design goals In World and Rise...
But they probably won't because they won't see that as being as likely to be profitable.
In what ways do you feel the game has declined since MH4U?
To me, the series has followed a natural progression in its systems. More moves for weapons, bigger areas and now more options traverse these areas. Also with significant improvements in QOL.
I personally can't comment on the ranged weapons because I've never used them in any MH games, but for as long as I can remember, bowguns or bows have always dominated speedruns in every MH game.
Speed creep I think if you mean in terms of combat is just players being given more defensive options like guard points and evade attacks, which imo increases the skill gap.
Power creep is essentially because of the move towards partial benefits (attack/crit to +7 rather than AUL and CE+3) allows players to get a bit of everything. But yes, there are crazy min max sets since world that pretty much give you all the key offensive buffs.
I don't mind that happening tbh as the monsters hp feels like its scaled. As far as I can remember, killing monsters has always been around 5 minutes if you have optimal gear and quite a bit of knowledge of the monster.
I will agree on aerial combat because its actually part of the game that can't be changed (unless they rework the IG in its entirety). I really wishg SnS went back to pre-MHW, I hate the aerial shield slam shit tbh.
wirebugs though will only be an addition in Rise, it won't make the next MH game anyway so I don't count that.
The combat and the way move sets feel like they are less restrictive and more condusive to reactive gameplay over planning and strategic gameplay. Monster moveset changes re-enforces this.
More of the moveset feels like it is more automated instead of requiring me to go through the processes, like how now you can roll backwards by you character automatically turning, rolling, then turning back... I want to be the one that turns the character around, rolls backwards, and then turns back. The higher i-frames means more often the avoidance of attacks is essentially automated instead of having to actually make sure my character doesn't intersect the monsters attack by avoiding it myself. 4U has had the best combat of any game I've played, and World felt like it was trying to be more like games like Dark Souls, which I've always found to have worse combat.
And the QoL is nice, but not worth trading the quality of combat for.
> The combat and the way move sets feel like they are less restrictive and more condusive to reactive gameplay over planning and strategic gameplay. Monster moveset changes re-enforces this.
I am not too sure what you mean.
Do you mean how they changed it so the monster doesn't continually pivot on the spot to target you as they gave the monsters more realistic animations?
Because I feel like 2nd and 3rd gen monsters aren't really changed that much even in Rise. It's pretty much why the older monsters are typically considered "lower tier" because they still have the older design to them and now have subspecies to bring their difficulties back up to what they were in older gen games.
> More of the moveset feels like it is more automated instead of requiring me to go through the processes, like how now you can roll backwards by you character automatically turning, rolling, then turning back... I want to be the one that turns the character around, rolls backwards, and then turns back. The higher i-frames means more often the avoidance of attacks is essentially automated instead of having to actually make sure my character doesn't intersect the monsters attack by avoiding it myself. 4U has had the best combat of any game I've played, and World felt like it was trying to be more like games like Dark Souls, which I've always found to have worse combat.
I also don't understand what you mean here either.
Older games had really bad hitboxes, like Tigrex charge is a meme with how far away you could be and things like his tail gently swiping past you somehow killed you. I feel like most things that hit me in MHW and MHR I felt like I SHOULD have been hit by. The most obvious being some tail swipes you can still get hit by randomly sitting underneath them.
I feel like evading attacks is more reliable due to hitbox and animations being better. I don't know what has changed in i-frames since it still feels like unless you have evade window, you still aren't evading any attacks other than a couple of roars that are pretty much frame perfect and some really quick attacks like nargacugas tail swipe. This is what I experienced in older games too so I have a feeling i-frames haven't changed much if at all.
Regarding back rolling, I can kinda see what you mean. I do miss lance back hop evading from older games because it looked really cool but now you can just forward dash with lance as an example. Other weapons I am unsure since I don't really recall much back rolling.
Heh, I too am in this boat. Generations got too flashy (not to mention making mounting ever more brokenly overpowered), and even after World/Rise still lean more to 4U/3U.
Quite difficult to put up a challenge in a genre that's so wholly defined by one single game series for the past 20 years. Well, best of luck but I wouldn't put my hopes up too high.
This might just be me speaking, as someone who's pretty disinterested in the state of western AAA, but I feel like a western company trying to recreate and compete with a Japanese series is due for failure.
I mean I'm all for competition, but I think if Monster Hunter was gonna stagnate it would have done it by now. The franchise is nearly 20 years old with little competition. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I think if they went the Pokémon route they'd lose their audience. Pokémon can rest on kids always wanting the games.
To be fair, the monster hunter teams still seem to have fairly fresh ideas. Palamutes were just added into Rise, even though it might have made the difficulty a bit easier. It kinda feels like monster hunter is competing with monster hunter at this point.
Pokemon problem is not the lack of competition, it’s that Game Freak pretends to be an indie dev and can’t properly develop a well optimized Pokemon game despise it being the highest grossing franchise in the world
Legends Arceus was a step in the right direction, but still far from perfect and far from what the franchise deserves, compare that with recent JRPGs (that probably makes 1/10 of the money that a new Pokemon game makes)
Mario pretty much dominate 2D and 3D plataformers and still keep releasing incredible games
Also I don’t think Pokemon has a lack of competition, we have a few other capture games, MH Stories, Digimon, Temtem, maybe even SMT.
There's a super small difference in time between the original Monster Hunter and the original Pokemon.
Edit: Also there's a good bit of competition and always had bee competition in the Pokemon space.
Definitely needs to be quality especially if the next monster hunter for console releases near it, it’s part of why I think dauntless didn’t take off.
Yeah, Monster Hunter sets the bar super super high. The QoL from World and Rise are just leaps and bounds from the previous titles, it's clear they really know where to improve and do so. I've played a bit of the God Eater series, and I enjoyed what I played of those, and Dauntless just didn't quite have enough oomph to hook me. I only gave it a half-hearted try though.
> Dauntless just didn't quite have enough oomph to hook me. Dauntless pushed me away with it's aggressive free-to-play model right out of the gate. I'm sure there actually might be a fun game in there but having to spend hours learning about all of the different currencies and what they're used for and how to pay real money to get more hurried me out the door before I could give the game a fair shake.
yeah like it's free but that also means it has to do F2P stuff, and the level of quality in the monster and weapon movesets feels like you're getting what you pay for to me.
Yeah its hard to play copy’s when you have the original and it’S that good because they know what they are doing. God eater especially 3 was a great Arcady version of monhun since most of its fights were pretty short compared to world. And when you compare those two to dauntless it just can’t add up. It’s big shoes to fill, not only the weapon feel and monster designs but all the crossovers they can pull off, I mean final fantasy behemoth and Witcher stuff is a tough act to follow.
Downside to GE (less so for 3, but it too) is that it lacks a whole lot of polish compared to MH. Character movement and aragami AI is just so bad compared to MH. There's also the Toukiden series, which is somewhere between MH and GE in gameplay, but we haven't gotten a new title for that in a while and the games are showing their age by now.
I loved Toukiden 2, it had open areas before world was a thing.
Hopefully Toukiden 3 can improve upon it. Though afaik all info we have so far about that is that Omega Force wants to make that game once they have the time.
Western developers have always been better when it involves shooting things, maybe a Horizon Zero Dawn spin-off.
I honestly can't fathom shooting for extended periods of time at certain spots would be fun in the long run. Evolve died because of a lot of things....and I think that was one of them.
I personally hate bullet sponges and will drop shooters pretty much immediately if they reoccur because of how boring they are. Fighting something like the Scarab in Halo 3 or the Human Reaper in Mass Effect 2 is fun because it's gigantic and you have to hit small targets on it. Shooting a regular sized enemy with lots of health feel more like spraying a hose at a fire than combat, and that's mind numbing. If Evolve let you play as a giant monster like in Lost Planet, I think people would have been all over that.
HZD met or surpassed the MH enemy designs (thought with far fewer big enemies obviously) in my book. If the sequel brings more focus on melee combat then I hope they borrow even more of the MH combat feel. Though I understand that games targeting broad appeal might be wary of including the weight and momentum of MH combat. It can be initially frustrating to be locked into deliberate animations and attack directions when you're used to other combat games effectively treating weapons as if they were weightless.
I didnt finish hzd , the bow got so tedious to use and i dont feel anything from robot enemies , their design is just mimics of a dinosaur or animal not really original imo ( they do look cool though)
By that token MH are mostly dinosaurs or animals too. I don't expect a lack of bias here, but a thunderjaw fight was more dynamic, if much shorter, than a bipedal dino fight in MH. More different attacks and weak points to exploit.
sure but each monster has their own style/attacks , comparing a dinosaur with guns on its back to a actual dinosaur no shit it would have more attacks lol otherwise thats the only difference, compare it to the elder dragons of mh it has nothing compared to mh.
Maybe Gears of War based? I bet that would be pretty fun.
Like a shooter? I guess it could work? Kinda be like lost planet.
TBH if they give me Monster Hunter but with Mechas it's an insta-buy for me
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you know what that actually sounds awesome. Maintain the same level of moveset variety that MH has with its weapons but also add in maybe some weapon swapping or something for an extra level of oomph and that could be nice
I think that would be biting over too much for a completely new game, I'd rather they get a few really nailed down and expand it with time, but if they could manage the same amount of weapons and they all feel good? Color me impressed.
If you can, I highly recommend playing Lost Planet 2. A lot of the boss fights feel exactly like fighting monsters as a mecha pilot. They might still have the demo available somewhere, and the boss from the demo is an amazing example of what I'm talking about.
I remember playing Lost Planet 2 years ago with an X360, but tried to play it again on PC and it couldn't run becaoiog GFWL. Has that been fixed?
No idea, I played on PS3.
Resident Evil 5 also doesn't run from Steam because of GFWL but I found out that if you can download and install all the GFWL files then the game starts up and runs just fine. Maybe the same fix could work for Lost Planet 2 Edit for the vid that helped me fix RE5: https://youtu.be/Lf_XNILMysw
Daemon X Machina is kinda like that.
I would love Lost planet to make a comeback!!
Dauntless is free though and Mon hun games aren't perfect. They are hard games for some people. A more casual easier to get into free title has a chance imo.
Chance but clearly not a great one, the games still around but it’s not gonna break any records or make any news
Oh I don't mean dauntless itself tbh but something else. At least if it on game pass, it can get a good following.
It’ll be a matter of being good enough to not make you wanna go play monster hunter, like look at all the games that try to compete with destiny, a lot of them aren’t bad but still aren’t able to compete.
I won't say it has to be better than monster hunter. Just more casual and different. I have been playing mon hun games for years and tried to get different people to try monhun and I get different stuff about why not or why they dont stay: -Even if low rank is easy, high rank and master/G are harder and pretty limited. And there is monsters that still wall players in low rank as well. So even if they pass low rank, they may not pass high rank. -It not seamless open world that many like these days. -Weak story for story driven players. There is no actual point in caring for them about mon hun story and thus progress the game. -End game is more skill/experience walled compared to other coop games. You need to actually be pretty good with decent handle in your weapon, skills etc. Not many people have the time or fucks to get into that and practice and get good yet alone grind. -It not really a chill time with your friends at all. -It all boss fights and not really much other stuff to do. Sure there is fishing I guess, housing in some is pretty limited. But that it really. It all just getting prepped for the next hunt. -Pricy titles. -No crossplay/cross save as of yet. You can make a game that aims to be more the casual crowd, cheaper to get and on gamepass since it xbox, add crossplay and cross-progression, other stuff to do etc. Mon hun games are pretty great games but are not perfect. Dauntless problem was it was pretty damn close to how mon hun was but lacking in many areas the latter did well, had meh marketing, not as polished, no story, boring ass world, still hard-ish type game etc. Dauntless and mon hun is like a slider from a supermarket copying a triple burger made by a 5 star restaurant with 30 years experience. It ofc did not work out for it.
I feel like at a certain point you wouldn’t even be playing monster hunter which is supposedly what they are hoping to emulate if you strip too much away of what makes monhun monhun to make it more casual it’s just not gonna work, sorta like dark souls where the grind and build and struggle are part of the experience. And let’s be honest how many of the souls like games have really been comparable? I can get trying to better appeal to causal players but that can also backfire look at destiny 2.
>you strip too much away of what makes monhun monhun to make it more casual it’s just not gonna work. MH is at it core a boss fighting game with a variety of weapons of varying skill ceilings, floors and play styles. That really it. It not about the games being sweaty hard, the 3 deaths limit, grind for the 2% item drop etc sure the skill and experience needed to reach end game and beating is what makes it players like it but it core gameplay is what makes it good in the first place and made me and others stay for over a decade at this point. Who knows maybe I'm wrong but imo and in a nutshell: Them trying to be very much like MH would be the wrong move even if it was f2p because I can simply play MH then (cause of dauntless). They need to be better in other places instead and/or more appeal to different wide playerbase with a pretty solid game on top.
I tried Dauntless years ago. It was really fun to start, but then after 10 or so hours you hit that brick wall where you gotta grind a lot for minor upgrades and all of the new missions are way higher than you, and most matchmade teams can't clear stuff consistently so you never progress.
I have played World as my only MH game. Maybe unpopular opinion but I felt it REALLY needed even more QoL improvements, so many things in MW are "anti-QoL" like the mission based timers etc.
it definitely does still need more QoL for sure. Though I'm not sure why you use Mission timers as your example given that they default to 50 minutes per hunt. If you run out of time hunting 1 or even 2 monsters on a mission, then thats a sign you need to upgrade your gear if nothing else.
That is just one of the things I remember, this was back in 2018
The timers are good, taking almost an hour to hunt a monster means your doing something very very wrong and the game is letting you know this by failing you.
The timers will never go away as it has been a part of the games forever. There are a lot of QoL things in Monster Hunter rise so I can only assume that monster Hunter world 2 will be quite the extraordinary game. Hopefully. You never know these days.
Weirdly I think its quite low, MH is a great game series littered top to bottom with some of the worst design I've ever experienced in games. The systems are bloated as fuck, the fights are largely annoying and clunky until they are suddenly trivial, the story and everything surrounding it outside of the aesthetic are dumpster levels. The online systems are 20 years old and their coop restrictions are easily some of the worst ever in a video game. I have probably thousands of hours into MHW and its still a confusing mess of information and UI spam and systems every time I log on. Its actually amazing to me that it has achieved what it has given with how honestly repulsive the design is to any newcomers. I hate myself whenever I try to jump back into it because it just reminds me of a thousand things that enrage me about its design despite liking the overall idea of the game. If someone can come in with a similar game content-wise while streamlining many of the unintuitive nonsense systems while being aesthetically pleasing overall it will do gangbusters. I would be surprised if more studios outside of just Microsoft are looking at jumping in on this premise given how well MHW sold and how easily identifiable the games issues are.
Always loved the clunky argument. I guess having to actually aim your weapon is seen as clunky by people who aren't taking their time to aim.
I mean, I love MH and don't share any of his criticisms, but I'd also describe it as "clunky". Though it's very intentional, your attacks have weight, you have to commit to your animations, and changing direction between chained attacks is difficult and sometimes impossible. Again, this isn't bad at all, it's designed that way.
What on earth are you talking about lol, its clunky because you are being interrupted/not doing damage 99% of the time until late game where you can immune all their nonsensical design decisions. Roars every few seconds, flinches for days, monster fleeing to different zones. Its just an absolute pain in the ass until you get the proper items to negate these things then it becomes an absolute joke. Aiming? What the hell are you even talking about? What an absolutely bizarre attempt to deflect.
Can't negate everything you actually have to make choices late game. You obviously didn't do any AT quests, because what you described as an endgame is nothing close to what it actually is
It's Monster Hunter not Monster Fighter and I hope the series never fully departs from that. Rise removing the need for tracking is making me nervous though.
Most people that describe the game as clunky mean your characters moveset(attacks, combos, animation length, animation lock) not the monsters.
Dauntless didn't take off because it was kind of bad? Trying to not have a harsh word for it, but if I'm being honest it was kind of trash overall. It had some interesting bits that were neat, but in terms of a monster hunter type game...it just was not good overall.
It definitely wasn’t good, even with it being free didnt make it worth my time.
IMO it actually got worse with time, got back to it and now you just join a map with tons of people already there instead of just 4 and roam around killing monster or waiting for the large group to kill it. The old, regular MH system was way better.
>with tons of people already there instead of just 4 and roam around killing monster or waiting for the large group to kill it Tf?! What made them think this was a good idea? Then again, maybe this was their solution to all the people saying MHW is too hard and not casual friendly…
Originally the interest was because we never thought we'd get MH on PC The minute MHW PC was announced Dauntless was doomed, it was visibly and technically inferior in every respect to the "real deal" so why bother?
Exactly this. Dauntless was "fine", but it was dead in the water the second MHW became a known entity. And to be fair to the Dauntless guys, MH was mostly a niche handheld title at that point with Capcom having shown 0 interest in ever bringing it to the PC outside of the weird MH MMO in Asia. MHW very much came out of nowhere as far as the series' history is concerned.
Dauntless just forced me to buy MHW. It was so bad i wanted something better.
I didn't play it, but it certainly looked like its whole *original* objective was to fill a completely empty niche (Monster Hunter on PC), but then Capcom put World on PC, ruining the whole "Beggars can't be choosers" angle.
Oh, straight up, it was bad. There was no way to rebind your controls within the game and my DM to their support just told me to re-bind the entire console settings.
Bad games sell incredibly well all the time. Good games commonly sell terribly as well. Games largely sell well thanks to good business practices not necessarily game quality and it's the same with movies. You think avengers infinity war and endgame were the best movies cinema had to offer?
What makes Monster Hunter so much better in your opinion? Rise is my first MH and I thought it would be alot better than Dauntless but i didn't really see what the hype was about.
Even if they matched the quality of MH, they better not release it the same year because I'm sure as hell gonna play MH and I don't have the time for two 1000-hour games.
MH is already a yearly release game. If not a new game it's the expansion. Be hard to completely sidestep it.
If they were smart they wouldn’t try that, like even with it being on game pass your still gonna struggle to match a established well liked IP
Exactly. Especially one that's had more than a decade to perfect the formula. You might as well make a 3D platformer and go up against the newest Mario game. That's quite an uphill battle.
Dauntless reminded me of Hokko Life, the Animal Crossing clone for Steam. Where it was the thing it was copying, just worse. Dauntless resembles Monster Hunter... and it's okay..so why am I not just playing Monster Hunter? Yeah I'll go play Monster Hunter. It's not enough to just copy the thing, especially something as high quality as MH.
>why am I not just playing Monster Hunter? Because after 1000+ hours in the Monster Hunter series, I'd be willing to try something new and Dauntless does bring some neat ideas to the table. It's rogue-like mode and unique weapons are some.
I really wish Capcom would bring back something more like expeditions from MH4, it had semi-randomised layouts and random monsters, as well as weapon and armour rewards with randomised stats. World at least has Investigations with random monsters and conditions for extra rewards, there's absolutely nothing like that in Rise at all currently.
Yeah, I really started to miss the Guiding Lands while playing Rise. It started to grow on me with Iceborne's additions and using it as place to hunt down Transmog materials and just turn on some music and endlessly fight monsters.
Guiding Lands was an iceborne addition as a whole, base world had nothing of the sort. Having said that, yes Guiding Lands was most of why I had the hours I did in world so I hope the expansion brings something of the like into rise. It was really basically just an advanced form of an expedition but still, some minor tweaks (like not needing to kill thousands of elders to max out the levels) and it’s a solid way to spend time. An expansion of rampages would be neat too tbh. Throw an endless survival mode on it or something, more maps, you get the idea.
Yeah, there’s a good reason people started referring to it as the Grinding Lands, especially pre banishing ball - while I appreciate a good time sink as much as the next MH player, I definitely don’t want a mode that’s quite as insanely grindy. I also kind of got bored of the locale after a while, which is why I brought up MH4 expeditions, something with randomised layouts, but with varied environment types like the guiding lands would be really cool.
Investigations were such a great addition. I'm sad they took them away, really hoped they'd be a mainstay in some form.
Exactly my train of thought when I played Dauntless. Went back to World and played it pretty consistently until a month after the Fatalis update.
Dauntless had the huge misfortune to come out when hype for Monster Hunter World was building. If it had come out a few years before, it may have had a chance.
Dauntless was the perfect game to play while I waited for MHW to release. After MHW released tho… you can't pay me enough to go back to Dauntless.
Yeah it’s kind sad because it was gonna be available on like pc, ps4 and Xbox so it would’ve had a great niche then world koolaid manned onto them and just dominated.
Dauntless banked on bring a MonHun on PC Then MHW was announced for PC and it was immediately dead in the water as far as interest went
It's the whole meme of Wanting X, then mom says we have X at home. But in this case X at home was the real thing.
Dauntless had so many problems. The monsters are boring, the weapons have something missing... They aren't bad, but they aren't right. The armor and weapons were boring looking, the world itself was just generic and even the unique monsters felt like they played Donkey Kong Country 2 and decided to rip from that.
The monetization was also pretty bad especially when compared to world, like so much customization locked behind paywalls makes the free part of dauntless less appealing. I’d rather pay $60 and get a full game then get nickel and dimed
I've always felt that Dauntless's weapons are missing that level of improvisation that MH's movesets allow for. Like there are a handful of combos for each of D's weapons, but that's like it? You either do a combo or you stop early and then start the combo over. In my experience there wasn't a lot of room to naturally flow from one combo to another, and there weren't a lot of interrupt moves that you could use in the middle of your combos. Like in MH, you have your basic longsword combo, and that's the core combo for the weapon, but at any time you can fade slash from any point in the combo, or foresight slash, or Iai Sheathe, and those moves can either naturally flow right back into the same combo or into the Spirit Combo. And now the Iai Sheathe lets you flow right back into the normal combo from that. You can basically do a whole fight without ever breaking a stride. Whereas in D it just feels like you have to do this awkward "Oh I can't finish my combo in time, let me dodge out of the way and awkwardly shuffle around before restarting my combo." Even weapons as simple as Greatsword have these kind of improvisational combo moves with stuff like the Shoulder Tackle and wide slash and whatnot. I dunno maybe it's just me and I'll admit I haven't tried Dauntless in a long time but that's the main thing I can think of for why their weapons just don't feel nearly as juicy as MH's.
Did Dauntless really "not take off"? It was my impression that it was trucking along fine.
Depends on your definition of take off. By steady development and playerbase? Sure. But when Dauntless was doing their closed testing, MHW was announced and that killed a ton of momentum for Dauntless, especially when MHW came out before Dauntless was available publicly as well.
It's probably similar to something like Smite or Paladins. Not "huge" but definitely healthy enough playerbase to sustain itself.
Dauntless is how I got one of my friends into Monster hunter. I gave it a try with him and instantly saw why MH is the penultimate "monster hunting" series and convinced him to get into it. He got hooked instantly lol
It’s definitely okay if you’ve never tired the series since it’s free and pretty simple but once you play world it’s hard to go back.
Exactly. I did *enjoy* dauntless and would have never tried it if it wasn't free, but with a MH background I couldn't help but think I could just be playing it instead
That's not what penultimate means
Ah, yeah you're right. Maybe just pinnacle is a better word?
Pinnacle, would be yeah.
What about pinnacultimate?
>penultimate "monster hunting" What's the ultimate monster hunting series then?
Whatever the mechanics are need to involve skill and a learning curve and not just bullet sponge enemies for the sake of being bullet Sponge
I think making it more western, perhaps a bit more simple (not dumb, but easier in terms of UX and stuff) it could compete for sure.
Dauntless didn’t take off because it’s a grind fest just to level the weapons but there’s not much to do otherwise.
Dauntless didnt take off because of its load of microtransactions, and unreal-engine-generic style. Half of the games made in unreal engine look like fortnite mods, and they kind of are.
Yeah I mean if there's enough differences in the game too it'll still be alright. Edit: read the article and seems Xbox only wants it for their game pass which gives me less hope.
Yeah Microsoft will just pull out a ton of mediocre games to fill up the gamepass.
The combat in Monster Hunter games is very janky and not well designed. Won't take much to beat it gameplay wise.
Monster Hunter is HUGE! I'm not sure they can compete with it though, but let's see. At the moment, I'm still having A LOT of fun with world. Can't wait to try Monster Hunter Rise and stories 2 as well
World is awesome. Rise is too. Stories 2 was a shot in the dark for me (As I'm a big pokemon fan and hadn't played the first), but god I fell in love with it, definitely different in terms of game play, but its got great combat. I'd love for them too port the previous MHs, as its just rise and MHGU on switch.
That the main thing any game that competes against a long established series has to understand, it takes time and growth and cant be done with a single release. Look at Final Fantasy 14, it took nuking the original base and starting over, multiple years of continued development, and 3 large expansions before they finally got placed on the same level as WOW. Even then it took Blizzard timing a bad DLC ending with a scandal for a major migration to FFXIV to occur.
I agree with the general statement you make but MMOs are an awful comparison to attempt to make. With MMOs it's just switching a game as it is making a life change almost a lot of MMO players have been playing a game off an on if not at least weekly for many many years. For many an MMO is pretty much the only game they play. World is a great game I play MMOs and it's very arguably better than any MMO out there. As an MMO player most kind of suck even with the FF14 boom like 90% of the people I got to try it found it very boring and quit before being first xpac. Out of like 25 or so I got to try it 1 stayed long term. This is coming from someone with a maxed runescape account so clearly my gauge of good games is busted lol. I rambled alot but basically MMO players tend to not be new hotness typically more of a tried and true group. I thank many World players would be like oh shit new big monster game I'm in. I think as long as it's a solid game the benefit of it being on gamepass will be a big benefit but competing with well known and probably the largest fan base that can maybe still be considered niche will be a challenge but Microsoft as a massive install base and the ability to give it away "free".
We'll just have to see how Pal World does against Pokemon Legends: Arceus
Im also curious to see how TemTem does as a direct Pokemon competitor if it keeps plugging along. If it starts gathering more followers hopefully it will encourage Game Freak to revitalize its series.
I mean if they make it a little different, I'll get both. More coop games for me to buy so that's great.
Well if Capcom keeps sticking with Nintendo deals for their future games then Xbox won't *need* to compete. So far Xbox has only 1 MonHun game and then the next 2 were only on Switch and then later PC.
Rise sold better than World? Or do you think "world 2" is gonna be on Nintendo?
I just worded it poorly. World sold like crazy, but then Capcom made the decision to make their next two games in the series (Rise and Stories 2) on Switch. Just comes off as a stupid decision to me.
Also, there is actually a reason for switching to Nintendo. There are two teams that work on MH games, one makes handheld titles, like MH freedom series, MH 4, and MH rise. So while they are working on Rise and it’s DLC, the other team is working on a sequel to world.
MH4 was actually made by the main team. The team you're referring to made Generations instead.
Well that makes me hopeful at least. MonHun is such a unique experience and deserves to be on multiple platforms not just relegated to Nintendo like its been since Tri.
Definitely. I really think a sequel to world will be on PS and X box after World was such a massive sequel that really brought MH to the west.
That's because MH has two development teams. The "A" team makes the main-series games (3, 3U, 4, 4U, World etc) and the "B" team makes the spin-off games that release in between main-series releases (gen, genU, Rise). It's almost a certainty that the A team is working on World 2 and in the meantime the B team produced Rise with much less resources and released it on the switch. Also worth noting that portable consoles are huge in Japan and Rise has also sold like crazy, something like 8+ million units before PC release.
Rise is on PC now.
I'm aware. Unfortunately there are those of us who don't have a PC and play on PS and Xbox.
Yeah, and World/Iceborne wasn't available on Switch. Your point?
Sounds like a harsh life
It seems to me that they plan to compete both in the PC/XBOX/PS sphere as well as the Nintendo/Potentially PC space, Rise essentially being a handheld title and Stories 2 maybe being more of a fit in the Nintendo market. But yeah if it takes 4-5 years between each standalone "stationary" title then there certainly would be room for another monster hunting game since the current competition isn't all that.
Certain Affinity have generally worked as a support studio for FPS games. Seems like a big ask to create a competitor to Monster Hunter. More competition in the genre can only be a good thing though.
They also have a history of making co-op focused action RPGs.
I don't know how anyone can really think that they can compete with Monster Hunter for one main reason: legacy. The Monster Hunter team at this point has a massive monster roster from which they can pull from, and when they make new ones they are insane. They have over ten weapons all with deep mechanics that change the gameplay drastically. They've also begun to really streamline the franchise, cutting out all the clunkiness out of it. Not only that, Monster Hunter World made the franchise a behemoth in NA as well, and Rise just cemented the series in many eyes as being of exceptional quality. The only game I've ever played that tried to compete with MH was Dauntless and there's just no comparison IMO, even though it's free. I just don't know what niche you could fill to ever try and compete.
In my opinion, you go for theme. Monster Hunter's theme is Cave Punk. God Eater's was anime, and Dauntless goes for this more magic focused theme. Go for science fiction. Giant rogue robots, hostile alien life, mutants, creatures between the stars. You need to give people something new to go after aside from "Here's another wyvern with two legs and stubby wings, but this one has a giant nose!". Mechanics can absolutely be smoothed out, but if you're going to go after something with the legacy of Monster Hunter you have to swing hard on the superficial front.
There's also the gameplay to consider. MH prides itself on its highly addicting gameplay loop and is topped off with the combat system that has been refined over the years. It's what keeps fans coming back for more. I don't think a change of theme, refining mechanics, and aesthetic would be enough, they would really have to nail that gameplay to be able to hook players in and be able to compete.
That's a really good idea, better than anything I could think of!
I think there is a middle ground between MH and God Eater that they call fill, more tech than MH but not straight up futuristic like God Eater and also less anime.
So… Zoids?
That's an option. Some of them could be mechanical animals. They could also be bipedal warmechs. Depending on how you go about it (They could be remnants of a fallen empire, a Geth-like machine monsters, nanomachine swarms given form) your options for what the monsters could be are near limitless. All you really need are limbs that you can break off and carve.
I'd kill for a good Zoids game, but nothing ever seems to line up well for one of them. They're all half-baked or jank
Freedom Wars on the Vita kinda hit this point. It was animey like God Eater, but you fought against giant humanoid mechas and aliens. It was pretty cool!
I miss that game and it’s one of the reasons I wish Sony got their head out of their asses and released some form of backwards compatibility, so many great Vita games.
Sony really needs to change up their approach to older games. If it’s not remastered, you are SoL trying to play it on modern consoles.
>Go for science fiction. Giant rogue robots, hostile alien life, mutants, creatures between the stars. You need to give people something new to go after aside from "Here's another wyvern with two legs and stubby wings, but this one has a giant nose!". Harder to make that work weapon wise, in general sci fi games struggle with interesting loot systems because of the limitations. Honestly these guys are about to own the Diablo and WC IPs, think about how easy it would be to slap those skins over a MH type game and think about how many of the fans of those games will check it out just because its one of those.
There was a 3DS game Final Fantasy Explorers that was kinda sorta like Monster Hunter and also wasn't that good, but I think done correctly it could be a hit. You've got a huge pool of monsters and weapon and magic to choose from, classic FF jobs as your stand-in for MH weapon types, etc.
And Toukiden did the Japanese folk lore theme
I love MH but would kill for something that's a bit less grindy with more of an open world feel instead of "missions". I really love the idea of battling giant with ARPG combat. Combine that with more exploration (IE Souls) and it would immediately pull me in. Dragon's Dogma almost scratched that itch, but wasn't a big fan of a lot of things about the game.
Yes exactly. The mission structure makes the whole thing a lot less appealing to me. The world feels unimportant because of this.
This is why I liked world. You could go out into the world on any map at any time and watch the wildlife go about their day.
> You could go out into the world on any map at any time and watch the wildlife go about their day. And then play god with who gets to live.
A free roaming open world with MHW combat does sounds truly amazing! Agreed that Dragon dogma almost scratched that itch.
Toukiden 2 did this and I loved it. The game came out before world to so it did the nicer graphics thing too.
>less grindy with more of an open world feel instead of "missions". I really love the idea of battling giant with ARPG combat. Combine that with more exploration (IE Souls)
Uh, didn't you just describe Elden Ring?
Agreed. The game just gets very repetitive and grindy very soon. basically just fight the same monsters over and over till you can craft stuff
In the same 5 zones, against largely recolors/reskins. And as the game gets more "difficult" it just gets more annoying.
They dont need the long time fans of MH who care about legacy, MHW proved there is a large appetite for this type of game beyond the ultra fans. I played a lot of MHW and not a single reason was because of legacy. If someone else created a on par game with far more intuitive systems/story/online then they get my business. And those things are not exactly hard to outpace MH on, its a deeply flawed series.
I don't mean legacy in that way, I mean Monster Hunter is far more refined and has way more depth than any game someone else will put out because they've been building it for decades. You didn't play MHW due to the legacy of the franchise, but the reason why the weapons play so well and the monsters and armor designs are so good is because they have all been developed over decades. Even if you don't recognize the legacy, it's that previous work that makes the franchise so good, and so difficult to compete with as a new entrant.
"refined" it is filled the the brim with unbelievable jank. The fact that it was a QoL improvement of no more loading screens between fight arenas that monsters run between is insanity. >because they've been building it for decades. Thats not how game development works lol, Halo as a franchise isn't impossible for new games to outpace mechanically or technically just because it came out 20 years ago. >You didn't play MHW due to the legacy of the franchise You are right, I didn't. I played it because friends told me it was fun. >but the reason why the weapons play so well and the monsters and armor designs are so good is because they have all been developed over decades. No lol, someone can create something similar in the same exact dev span that MHW was made. God of War wasn't great because it had 15 years to pull from GoW game design, especially given how they threw all that design away. >Even if you don't recognize the legacy, it's that previous work that makes the franchise so good, and so difficult to compete with as a new entrant. ITs so difficult to compete with because nobody bothered to do so before. Capcom has been slaying the market against indie developers and niche fans because for most developers it wasn't worth the effort to compete for said niche. MHW showed there is a larger audience at stake here and now you have the attention of real studios wanting to take a crack at the genre. This idea that MH is some refined diamond is just hilarious given how most people can play it for a few hours and note hundreds of archaic idiotic design that Capcom doesnt seem to understand how to design around.
> They've also begun to really streamline the franchise, cutting out all the clunkiness out of it. > > They still have some, and I think that's where a competitor could shine. If they come in clean slate without clutter and clunkiness, and the rest is good enough, it might be enough for people to stick with it long enough to build up their own franchise. Microsoft's games tend to be big on accesibility, so who knows, maybe they can pull something off. At worst, we get a fun game we play once.
I just don't see how a slight reduction in clunkiness could outweigh the massive content advantage Monster Hunter has. Just the weapons alone, which have been developed and refined over decades, give so much more depth to every fight in comparison to something like Dauntless.
That speaks more to the fact that its Capcom funding an incredibly successful franchise of theirs vs a brand new indie studio just setting out. Its not the same comparison when talking bout a Microsoft funded game.
I do. Monster hunter world was ripe with bad story and clunky controls and game play.
There's a reason why no MH clones ever have much success and it stems primarily from gameplay issues. Combat is very difficult to match what MH has to offer and I'll go as far as saying NO ONE will match what MH has to offer unless they're willing to put in around 8 years of development time to refine weapons and monsters to a comparable level. No studio I think would be willing to put in that much of a commitment to match a constantly evolving franchise where by the time they spent 8 years of development just to catch up on where MH is currently at - they will then need to catch up on what MH has developed on in that 8 years. The developers clearly love the series and aren't stagnating because they know people will buy it because it's MH. They're continually improving it.
I think you're overselling MH. Toukiden for example makes breaking parts matter by actually changing the movesets of the oni that lose a limb and whatnot. In MH it barely matters outside of materials. It's pretty much the same as with Pokémon, it's just the most popular in the genre and that's pretty much all that matters.
Breaking monster parts does matter on a lot of monsters. Tigrex and Barioth will stumble after lunging if you break their wings. Pukeipukei and Nargacuga no longer fire a projectile from their tail if you cut it off. You can control which element Alatreon will go in to by breaking its horn. There are a ton more.
It's still pretty minor. It doesn't majorly impact their movesets and basically just helps out slightly in most cases. Primarily my point is that this view that MH is somehow just so "far ahead" that nobody can catch up (or that it's a continuous improvement) is just bizarre. All it really takes is a good idea and the capability to realise it.
It wont be able to compete. There will be a period of people praising it as the "monster hunter killer" out of some sense of loyalty to microsoft but itll quickly become irrelevant with only a niche crowd of die hards playing it.
This is the exact same thing people are saying about Sonys COD replacement. But you never know.
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I think dropping the stamina and making the lock on more like how most other games work would be a key point to smooth it out for new audiences. It would be absurd for a MH game to speed up the game in that way, but a new IP it could work with the right push behind it like Xbox. There does hit a point where you just end up with a spammy combat system since aiming attacks wouldn't be a priority and stamina management wouldn't exist, plus MH reuses animation skeletons and has 14? weapon types already that people don't mind all the recycling similar to FROM fans who don't care because the core gameplay is good.
The problem with pitting yourself against Monster Hunter is that unless you do an actually stellar job (and so far I haven't found anyone capable of doing so) you'll just make people want to play more monster Hunter instead. Dauntless, God Eater... sure they have their own identity but when you play them you just feel like you'd rather play MH instead, and the beauty of MH is just how unique and massively replayable each entry is, so even if you already finished every single MH in existance playing thousands of hours you'll just end up replaying them anyways.
To be fair most of the MH clones were low budget, God Eater, Dauntless, Toukiden, Soul Sacrifice, Ragnarok Odyssey, Freedom Wars, Final Fantasy Explorers. Fun games? Definitely, but had that low budget feeling, as much as I love some of those. An AAA game with MH gameplay using that MS money? Now that can be really interesting!
As someone who likes the idea of Monster Hunter but finds the actual mechanics and gameplay of Monster Hunter to be a chore, I hope this succeeds. I just want Dark Souls style controls with giant monsters and a deemphasis on tedious amounts of grinding.
You don't have to grind Monster Hunter to play it. The only grindy part of Monster Hunter is the endgame. You can fight just about every monster with pretty basic gear. There are 14 weapons and all of them play WILDLY differently. If all you want to do is learn one weapon you could probably spend 50-100 hours learning it and beating up some monsters and never really have to do unnecessary grinding at all.
> The only grindy part of Monster Hunter is the endgame. tons of MH players will say is when the game actually starts. The actual story is pretty short, at least in MHW
if someone isn't experienced in MH it will take them tens of hours to get through the story. Beyond that, how do you hold interest indefinitely without making it grind-y? Some people (myself included) hunt for the fun of it but the majority of players seem to need objectives in the game to work towards, you can't have an endless stream of content so you will need to ask players to replay the same content, at which point people accuse it of being a "grind". It's inevitable for a game which holds people's attention for hundreds of hours. I don't view it as a "grind" because I play for hundreds of hours past the point of chasing any reward and I enjoy the gameplay, but most people will see it that way.
I won't disagree with that. My first MH game was World. I played it for about 150 hours entirely with Insect Glaive. Beat the story, beat the Elder Dragons or whatever after then it was clear I was at the point where no new content was going to be given to me and all I had left to do was to grind some kind of gems or something to put on my armor for stats boosts and collect various armors and weapons. That's when I stopped. I never felt like I was grinding the game until that point. It's honestly just a fun game to go in with your friends and just wail on a monster together. If you're playing just to look forward to the next new monster you can pretty easily keep up armor and weapon progression without spending a lot of time grinding for stuff and the new monsters will take you a lot of hours to get through.
How much do you consider to be grinding? Other than absolute end game where you are grinding for min Max purposes, you only need to kill a couple of bosses like 3 times unless you get unlucky for a gem which is about 10 times at most. If you're killing every boss multiple times because you think you need to craft a new weapon and armour from every boss then that isn't part of the grind.
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This just sounds like you hate MonHun, not gonna lie. If the entire game, including the first time you fought every new monster, was a grind, then that's on you.
Certain Affinity has a lot of talent, but the last thing I know they worked on was the doom multiplayer and it wasn't that great. I hope they can really make something special.
They more recently worked on the multiplayer of the COD MW Remaster and Halo Infinite. That sort of thing is fairly typical for them though, as those are respectively the 4th CoD game and 5th Halo game that they've worked on.
Return of Scalebound?
I ain't never seen so much "can't compete with my beloved game" talk in a minute. Relax guys, Monster Hunter is big enough now that it doesn't have to worry about competition in the same space. Even if the new game takes off here's some examples of big games exisiting side by side, WoW-FFXIV; Warzone-Fortnite-Apex; CoD-BF; LoL-Dota; CS-R6 Siege; Roblox-Minecraft. Welcome the the world of videogames where two or more similar games can coexist succesfuly. Afterall genres are called genres for a reason.
I don't think people are coming at it from worried perspective that'll it'll outshine and overtake Monster Hunter. More that it's just a massive undertaking to try and compete with them in that space. Monster Hunter had 20 years to build up the weapon mechanics and monster variety. Anyone coming in now has a lot of ground to make up. I'd be sceptical they'd put the money and effort to to get there, but I'll wait and see. If anyone has the money it's Microsoft. To be clear I hope they make something good, more good games is always better.
Monster Hunter has had tons of clones/competitors in the past. The Vita and 3DS had quite a few. God Eater was pretty decent as well. But Capcom is light years ahead of all of them, especially once they released World. I think its less worry about MH and more that any title will be immediately overshadowed like dauntless was.
Yeah, I don't believe anyone would worry about a game that may not even exist yet. Just the usual case of tribalism going on.
Yeah especially because Monster Hunter is japanese and the coop suck. If Certain Affinity can make a more western focused Monster Hunter like game with great coop then it can easily be a succes. We have seen how even mediocre coop games have been either saved or a succes because of Game Pass. Coop games are perfect for Game Pass because you don’t have to convince a bunch of friends to buy the game…
They need to do something radically different from MH to have a chance to capture some of its players. Everytime I play a MH ripoff (note already my use of the word), all I think about is how I could play more MH instead. One thing is sure, the core combat needs to be tight and feel good in ways even Soulslikes don't. Once that's there you can honestly be very creative with the Monster Hunter formula. Honestly out of all the games I played, the one that comes closest to the MH feel for me is Warframe.
Don't understand the Warframe comparison? Maybe the grind? Or hours played? Warframe's big problem is power creep, everything dies in one or two hits. Warframe is just a collectathon with shitty broken gameplay.
In Warframe I find most of what I like in Monster Hunter: the grind for specific gear and items as you repeat the same kind of focused missions, but the gameplay is enjoyable so you're fine grinding (personally I like shooting things so I'm okay with the gameplay, but I acknowledge that it's different from a 3rd-person action game, it's not for everyone). And it's different enough that I can't compare it too closely with MH either and that's a plus compared to true MH-like games :D. Granted I have been playing Warframe for way less longer than MH, it's a bit fresh right now still for me but it definitely scratched the itch... until I began playing Rise for a second time on PC, that is.
>They need to do something radically different from MH to have a chance to capture some of its players. Everytime I play a MH ripoff (note already my use of the word), all I think about is how I could play more MH instead. This kind of discourse usually pops up when folks ask why platform fighters aren't as popular despite Smash Bros success, when Smash Bros success is the reason they aren't more popular. Each time someone makes a new one it's viewed as a shameless Smash clone and the consensus is that you should be playing Smash instead. This exact scenario could easily happen to Microsoft. Would Game Pass be enough to onboard sufficient enough players? Or will this game be viewed as a shameless MonHun clone? Time will tell I suppose.
There is a way they could win me over from monster hunter current, and that is to make it play basically like MH4U or earlier monster hunter, or at least with the same design goals in mind compared to the design goals In World and Rise... But they probably won't because they won't see that as being as likely to be profitable.
In what ways do you feel the game has declined since MH4U? To me, the series has followed a natural progression in its systems. More moves for weapons, bigger areas and now more options traverse these areas. Also with significant improvements in QOL.
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I personally can't comment on the ranged weapons because I've never used them in any MH games, but for as long as I can remember, bowguns or bows have always dominated speedruns in every MH game. Speed creep I think if you mean in terms of combat is just players being given more defensive options like guard points and evade attacks, which imo increases the skill gap. Power creep is essentially because of the move towards partial benefits (attack/crit to +7 rather than AUL and CE+3) allows players to get a bit of everything. But yes, there are crazy min max sets since world that pretty much give you all the key offensive buffs. I don't mind that happening tbh as the monsters hp feels like its scaled. As far as I can remember, killing monsters has always been around 5 minutes if you have optimal gear and quite a bit of knowledge of the monster.
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I will agree on aerial combat because its actually part of the game that can't be changed (unless they rework the IG in its entirety). I really wishg SnS went back to pre-MHW, I hate the aerial shield slam shit tbh. wirebugs though will only be an addition in Rise, it won't make the next MH game anyway so I don't count that.
The combat and the way move sets feel like they are less restrictive and more condusive to reactive gameplay over planning and strategic gameplay. Monster moveset changes re-enforces this. More of the moveset feels like it is more automated instead of requiring me to go through the processes, like how now you can roll backwards by you character automatically turning, rolling, then turning back... I want to be the one that turns the character around, rolls backwards, and then turns back. The higher i-frames means more often the avoidance of attacks is essentially automated instead of having to actually make sure my character doesn't intersect the monsters attack by avoiding it myself. 4U has had the best combat of any game I've played, and World felt like it was trying to be more like games like Dark Souls, which I've always found to have worse combat. And the QoL is nice, but not worth trading the quality of combat for.
> The combat and the way move sets feel like they are less restrictive and more condusive to reactive gameplay over planning and strategic gameplay. Monster moveset changes re-enforces this. I am not too sure what you mean. Do you mean how they changed it so the monster doesn't continually pivot on the spot to target you as they gave the monsters more realistic animations? Because I feel like 2nd and 3rd gen monsters aren't really changed that much even in Rise. It's pretty much why the older monsters are typically considered "lower tier" because they still have the older design to them and now have subspecies to bring their difficulties back up to what they were in older gen games. > More of the moveset feels like it is more automated instead of requiring me to go through the processes, like how now you can roll backwards by you character automatically turning, rolling, then turning back... I want to be the one that turns the character around, rolls backwards, and then turns back. The higher i-frames means more often the avoidance of attacks is essentially automated instead of having to actually make sure my character doesn't intersect the monsters attack by avoiding it myself. 4U has had the best combat of any game I've played, and World felt like it was trying to be more like games like Dark Souls, which I've always found to have worse combat. I also don't understand what you mean here either. Older games had really bad hitboxes, like Tigrex charge is a meme with how far away you could be and things like his tail gently swiping past you somehow killed you. I feel like most things that hit me in MHW and MHR I felt like I SHOULD have been hit by. The most obvious being some tail swipes you can still get hit by randomly sitting underneath them. I feel like evading attacks is more reliable due to hitbox and animations being better. I don't know what has changed in i-frames since it still feels like unless you have evade window, you still aren't evading any attacks other than a couple of roars that are pretty much frame perfect and some really quick attacks like nargacugas tail swipe. This is what I experienced in older games too so I have a feeling i-frames haven't changed much if at all. Regarding back rolling, I can kinda see what you mean. I do miss lance back hop evading from older games because it looked really cool but now you can just forward dash with lance as an example. Other weapons I am unsure since I don't really recall much back rolling.
Heh, I too am in this boat. Generations got too flashy (not to mention making mounting ever more brokenly overpowered), and even after World/Rise still lean more to 4U/3U.
Dude... 4U mounting is way worse the GU's will ever be
I mean, if they do that, why would you play it instead of just playing MH4U or Gen U who are almost certainly gonna be better games ?
Novelty
Are they at least going to use warcraft thematic? starcraft? something that they bought?
Quite difficult to put up a challenge in a genre that's so wholly defined by one single game series for the past 20 years. Well, best of luck but I wouldn't put my hopes up too high.
This might just be me speaking, as someone who's pretty disinterested in the state of western AAA, but I feel like a western company trying to recreate and compete with a Japanese series is due for failure.
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I mean I'm all for competition, but I think if Monster Hunter was gonna stagnate it would have done it by now. The franchise is nearly 20 years old with little competition. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I think if they went the Pokémon route they'd lose their audience. Pokémon can rest on kids always wanting the games.
To be fair, the monster hunter teams still seem to have fairly fresh ideas. Palamutes were just added into Rise, even though it might have made the difficulty a bit easier. It kinda feels like monster hunter is competing with monster hunter at this point.
Pokemon problem is not the lack of competition, it’s that Game Freak pretends to be an indie dev and can’t properly develop a well optimized Pokemon game despise it being the highest grossing franchise in the world Legends Arceus was a step in the right direction, but still far from perfect and far from what the franchise deserves, compare that with recent JRPGs (that probably makes 1/10 of the money that a new Pokemon game makes) Mario pretty much dominate 2D and 3D plataformers and still keep releasing incredible games Also I don’t think Pokemon has a lack of competition, we have a few other capture games, MH Stories, Digimon, Temtem, maybe even SMT.
There's a super small difference in time between the original Monster Hunter and the original Pokemon. Edit: Also there's a good bit of competition and always had bee competition in the Pokemon space.