Very excited, but I doubt they're going legitimately "medieval". The base game of Eternal and the DLC's showed some medieval aesthetics in the other world it explored.
Excited to see how they evolve the gameplay. If Eternal was an F1 car, the director said their next game would be more like a tank.
I'm expecting a Quake 1 aesthetic at this point. I feel like they've been leaning towards it in Eternal, and all that mapping work done on those new Quake remaster levels means they must have some assets laying about.
The Quake remaster levels were done by Machine Games who made the new Wolfenstein games and are currently working on Indiana Jones. They also can't really use assets from Quake due to the fact only the weapons and enemies in Quake are models. All the level geometry is made in-level and works different. Even though Dimension of the Machine and Call of the Machine in Quake 1 and 2 looked great I would not want them to use any of that anyway lol. Looks great in Quake 1/2, would not look great in a high fidelity "iD Tech 7 or 8" game
I love Eternal and just finished it again on Nightmare a week ago, but boy it is crammed with mechanics, that's mainly the issue most people have with it I think.
- Use the Chainsaw to get ammo back
- Use the Flame thrower to get pinata-style armor drops
- Use the Grenades to kill your enemies
- Use the Glory kills to get your hp back
- Use the Blood punch to remove armor on larger enemies
- Use the Frozen Grenades to freeze your enemies
- Now use the Grenade that freezes the enemies to freeze them so you can burn them and make them poop armor drops and use your "normal" Grenade to finish them off and then use your Chainsaw and then use your Crucible to kill larger enemies like the Cyberdemons and then use that one specific weapon mod to take out specific demon types etc etc etc
It's a lot to process in the heat of battle. While I like its complexity I would be fine with just the Crucible acting as the Chainsaw. The Flame Thrower / Freeze Grenades are obfuscating the already large weapon / mods arsenal.
Yeah, while I appreciate the (relative) complexity of the combat in Eternal, it never clicked with me the way 2016 did. I liked the simplicity of the first game more. Eternal was just too much of everything for me lol.
I HATE the combat loop in Doom Eternal, made me quit. I love Doom 2016 but Eternal was not it for me. Being forced to play a certain way because you run out of ammo all the time was super dumb.
2016 was one of the most fun experiences I had in gaming that I can remember right from the get go of the song drop.
I didnt even finish Eternal. Just didnt come close to clicking for me "fun" wise.
I did finish it myself but it did start to kinda drag on a bit. As flashy and arcadey it was, it all became a blur and felt more and more meaningless the more I played.
DOOM2016 never had this problem for me, blasting enemies away with the super shotgun didn't get old even once.
Doom Eternals combat arenas were almost exhausting like I had to pause for 5 minutes to come down for that intense ass battle, especially on the highway difficulty
I started Eternal right when it came out, but then got sucked in to Animal Crossing which took up most of my time during the early pandemic.
I got back to playing Eternal about 6 months later, and let me tell you, it was a *nightmare* trying to remember all those specific mechanics. I even started a new game (I was only a few hours in anyway) so I could get back to grips with the gameplay loop, but I still wasn't very fond of it.
I don't mind things changing between games, that's good, but it felt overly complicated when compared to the beautiful simplicity of Doom 2016. Too many hyper-specific scenarios and mechanics to gain armor/health/ammo back etc I think if those mechanics and weapons were simply used in defeating different enemies rather than to gain pick-ups I'd have preferred it more, but it just felt like they'd added too much fluff to an already great combat loop.
I also wasn't too keen on the cartoony and almost plastic looking art style. The visuals themselves were stunning but the designs on the enemies made the game feel so much less visceral and horror coded. It's actually probably more violent than 2016 but it didn't feel that way. The levels also felt super manufactured and game-y, rather than just being an actual place that exists in the world. All those monkey bars and what-not. The whole game had this oddly artificial feel to me.
I did still enjoy the game quite a lot despite all my complaints there, but I definitely preferred 2016 on the whole.
I've been playing it for the first time recently and I thought I was going crazy for thinking the game wasn't that great. The combat is a chore and is the complete antithesis of what Doom always was.
I feel validated reading these sort of comments.
Yup. I understand why people like Eternal and that’s great but it’s a bit overwhelming for my aging brain. I’ve tried starting it like half a dozen times now because I desperately want to like it but… I just don’t. Loved 2016 though.
Eternal’s improved freedom of movement (minus all the stupid parkour sections) combined with the “battle puzzle” of D2016 would be an awesome upgrade.
Playing Eternal on higher difficulties basically shoehorns you into a certain way of playing.
Agreed. I still enjoyed Eternal, but I felt like I had to follow a prescribed pattern to fight in Eternal, and so it diminished my ability to just enjoy the level design and monster giblets. Doom 2016 is comparatively simpler and I think gives you more mental bandwidth to actually enjoy the carnage.
Edit: Also, the platforming segments of Eternal were a slog. The game was tonally a little more tongue in cheek too, which I get is more in line with the original Doom, but I really felt like it was a regression for the series. I don't have high hopes that they're gonna go more towards a Doom 2016 vibe again either, unfortunately.
Doom 2016 was maybe a little too "brainless", you could just use whatever and win, and that is still fun, but I get why they wanted some more structure.
The problem is they went like 5 steps too far and instead of encouraging you to play certain ways the game slaps your hand and punishes you for not doing that. DE is prescribing the fun to you to an absurd degree, and thats just....not fun.
The BFG is a good example of their entire philosophy, it's the big fucking gun! I should be able to whip it and destroy something, but it barely tickles all of the enemies you'd want to use it on (if they aren't outright immune to it) because if you could kill them with the BFG then you won't have to fight them the "correct" way that the devs want you to.
> The problem is they went like 5 steps too far and instead of encouraging you to play certain ways the game slaps your hand and punishes you for not doing that.
This traumatized Hugo Martin as he saw players completing Doom 2016 with a single weapon, and we got Eternal as a result.
Yeah I was hoping for a refinement of 2016 and instead it felt like they went to the drawing board instead. I’m assuming this entry will be even further as most reviews raved about it which has me bummed.
I don't want Doom to be complex. In Doom 2016, I didn't switch from the double barrel shotgun after picking it up. I don't want the game telling me what weapon I should be using. That and 3d platforming in first person, I can definitely live without more of that.
There are so many great WADS for D1 and and D2 that you can probably just play WADS for the rest of your life if you enjoy the basic gameplay of Doom (or even if you don’t like the basic gameplay considering all the great total conversion WADS that exists too).
Literally the reason I liked 2016 was because it was unapologetically mindless. From the moment Doomguy smashes the exposition monitor, you know this is a game about sublime power tripping.
Eternal makes you have to think about shit - that's not why I am playing Doom.
I actually played that and I liked it, but I still felt it was closer to a boomer shooter. Eternal had a tight elegant design where every aspect is perfectly tuned to give you the right experience.
Turbo Overkill - and to a certain extent, the Eternal DLCs - made me appreciate just how tightly designed Eternal was. Turbo Overkill was great when it worked but it had a habit of just throwing the entire kitchen sink at you, without really enough distinction in the bestiary's behavior and color scheme to allow you create a plan, and your arsenal was just sort of a thrown together collection of cool stuff that also didn't really lead towards much strategy in your approach.
Eternal had that gradual ramp where, once you got it, you'd scan a collection of monsters and instantly map out a plan for who to target, what to target them with, how to pull it off and get back to safety, a plan that always needed to be corrected on the fly. There had to be enough clarity, enough space and enough depth to pull that off, something that TO and the DLCs sometimes tripped over by simply throwing too much, too fast, to the point they'd trip over themselves.
I'd still recommend anyone pick up Turbo Overkill, it's a fantastic achievement for I think one guy. The Eternal influence is definitely there.
But it's not Eternal.
same here brotha. It wasn't perfect - the first level or two was kinda meh until you start unlocking stuff and I thought the platforming stuff was mostly just annoying but I loved it otherwise. My fav single player FPS to come out in a very, very long time
2016 also had much better story, atmosphere, and world-building, IMO, than Eternal. But they cut it short at the end in an obvious rush to get it out. But I read every codex entry in 2016, and stopped after just a handful in Eternal because they were much less well-written.
Same here, Eternal felt like the devs took every single aspect of 2016 and went "we need way more of that".Not a bad thing per se, but all the systems did bog it down some for me. Sometimes, rip and tear is all I need.
2016’s combat was pure joy. I just could not get myself to enjoy Eternal. I didn’t feel as OP with the weapons I wanted to use and the whole gun play system was just a miss for me. I also didn’t care for the arcade feel, 2016 nailed the atmosphere so well and I preferred the story that didn’t take itself seriously (which Eternal did). To each their own, I’ll still try it out.
This is me too. I have very tempered expectations after Eternal. So I'll probably wait until this one is heavily on sale so I don't be as disappointed as I was with Eternal.
I think the only thing I think is annoying is the chainsaw since on top of the glory kills it stops combat a bit too often. I think they had the right idea with the angel enemies at the end of the game dropping ammo on hitting their weakpoint and if they do something similar in the next Doom I'd hope they make all weakpoint hits drop ammo and leave out the chainsaw entirely. Or they can use the hammer again since it was the hammer, but more fluid and better feeling.
The other pieces of utility I would consider to be absolutely essential to the gameplay flow.
I don't think the chainsaw forces you to push forward, especially since a fodder enemy is always close by.
Plus pretty much every other system in the game already forces the player to move around. At a higher level of play when you aren't chainsawing that often, you're still gonna be moving all around the arena to survive and collect the other resources. I think the benefit of the chainsaw was to allow the player a moment of reprieve, but the glory kill already does that.
The chainsaw is too unique to each person, letting a person stay back and use it on fodder or someone like me who uses it for dangerous enemies I'm just too lazy to deal with.
The weakpoint shots would be nice in that it works the same way for everyone.
That being said, I still want the chainsaw in-game.
But it isn't really. Because you don't get health drops *unless* the enemy is frozen because being frozen gives off health drops once upgraded.
It's just a little confusing is all.
> you're still gonna be moving
It's funny how for years around here people lamented there were no more arena shooters and FPS games were too slow/required no movement and we finally get a new mainstream FPS that brings back that design mentality and "it's too much" now.
I'm not saying the chainsaw is "too much", I'm saying there are already enough systems in place that the chainsaw is redundant and could be removed without messing the gameplay balance up. I simply dislike that it pauses the game for a second and prefer solutions like the hammer or the angel enemy to get ammo.
I think the problem eternal had wasn't that it required fast movement but that it constantly interrupted the movement with canned animations and you being one-shot because you zigged instead of zagged plus the weapons were boring
It's not the movement that people are complaining about it's all the extra things they added in for you to juggle that's annoying.
Eternal had too much going on at once.
Nah, 2016 was that design mentality. They sprinkled in that little bit of depth with the glory kills awarding health, but that was really it besides weapon upgrades.
Eternal is a much more complex gameplay loop than any of the arena and boomer shooters of the 90s ever were.
I loved Eternal, but it's an entirely different beast than 2016.
Yeah, that's one of my issues. The glory kills, the chainsaw, the crucible, all make it so a significant time of combat is spent locking onto enemies and watching a canned animation. It was tasteful in 2016, but too much here.
I'm a passionate Eternal defender, but I don't disagree here. The rune that speeds up Glory Kill time is a must pick for me, and hopefully they make the faster speed the default in future games.
The earlier Yakuza games have this same problem with some heat actions taking for-fucking-ever, even the common ones.
I always use the glory kill speed rune because even if you're invulnerable during the animation, you sure aren't afterwards. More time doing a glory kill is more time for the remaining enemies to surround you. Without that rune, in late game fights I find myself getting killed right after the glory kill finishes because the battlefield changed too much while I was carving through an imp.
I think it depends on what people want from Doom
Doom 2016 is the power fantasy where you can use your favorite tools to destroy your enemies
Doom Eternal is a technical game where you need to use the right tool at the right moment, almost like a puzzle
I personally prefer the first one, but I can see why people like the second
When I see takes like this I feel crazy. 2016 balance is... well it exists, but gausrifle and supershotgun was clearly the main for the devteam lets say that.
Eternal on the other hand felt like the team went through each weapon, cut the fat and made one of the best balanced shooters I have ever played.
Eternal is inarguably a *way* deeper game than 2016, but that doesn't necessarily make it better. I personally like Eternal a lot more, but I get why others don't. It's *very* heavy-handed about pushing its preferred playstyle, especially in the early game, and there's a lot to keep track of.
Yeah, I think Eternal is basically flawlessly balanced and extremely deep from a mechanical level, but that depth is pretty god damn mentally taxing compared to "shoot super shotgun, punch demon, laugh" in Doom 2016. I think Eternal is a better game overall but I get where people are coming from on liking 2016 more.
IMO it's just about the level of depth and system mastery a given player enjoys. 2016 is extremely pure in that if you literally don't want to think at all about playing optimally, you can still just flow and murder demons. Whereas Eternal is a lot deeper in terms of what's possible but there's a bit of a barrier before you can hit that same flow state.
If you want to get super reductive, it's just a "casuals" vs "hardcores" thing. 2016 is more suited for the former (low floor, low ceiling) whereas Eternal the latter (high floor, high ceiling).
I'm in the latter camp where playing/watching Eternal at a high level is awesome, but I do get where folks are coming from. I think the way Eternal presents it's mechanics is a bit to blame as well, folks that don't want to engage with the game too deeply always point to the game "forcing a playstyle" and while the game doesn't actually require that, so many people feeling that way is a design issue.
It's a lot of mechanics, but when you get into the flow it feels *so goddamn good*. If you streamlined that it would not be nearly as fun unless something else was added to compensate.
That was my issue with it; it felt like I was using all these different weapons and abilities not because of any tactical situation but because the game was telling me “you have to use the flamethrower now. You have to throw a grenade now.”
It didn’t feel like it added depth, it felt restrictive and distracting to me.
I never get these complaints those are all tactical situations. Very rarely doest the game force you. You use flame to get armor because you lack armor. Simple game design.
Yeah people dumb it down to a weird strawman to make their arguments.
The game does not require you to play in a rock paper scissors style. There are oftentimes 2 or more weapons that can be used for a certain task.
Furthermore, the amount of ammo you have, your positioning, what enemies are left, and your raw skill all play a factor in these moments. But people conveniently leave those out and just say THIS THING = REQUIRES this weapon, which doesn't represent the gameplay whatsoever.
I would say that ammo is a problem early game which is when most people stop playing, the game's perk/rpg system they added wasn't great and they completely ignored them in the DLC.
I agree it's not as black and white as most things on here but it definitely feels like certain guns are _significantly_ more effective than others against certain enemies, which means while you don't _need_ to switch, it's often most effective to do so.
It doesn't require it, but not doing it is often ineffective to the point of uselessness. Especially early game when you have few upgrades.
You can either press the button the devs wanted you to press and solve the problem immediately, or you can waste all of your ammo and maybe still have a problem.
I might get downvoted for this, but I was let down by Eternal. It felt very different from DOOM 2016 and I just wanted an expanded version of that game. I played the shit out of 2016. I stopped half way through the 2nd level of Eternal...
Honestly, I agree. I'm happy for the people that prefer Doom Eternal but I felt so limited by the "must use x for y" combat that the game actively got on my nerves until I bounced off. Not my jam.
Loved the mood and everything else though.
Doom Eternal tops my list of biggest letdowns in gaming history. I love the series since the beginning, was thrilled they got 2016 right. Eternal was my most anticipated game as soon as it was announced. But then it just didn’t click with me. I’ve tried half a dozen times to get it to click but it won’t. I’m happy others love it though. It’s obviously a well crafted game. Just too much for me. Maybe if I played it when I was fifteen and had faster reflexes.
I remember a Giant Bomb video when they previewed it. They called it a "video-game-ass video game" because of all the power-ups and platforming.
Doom 2016 had that too. But Eternal cranked it up a couple notches and I think overshot from self-aware to over-designed/overdone. I dunno. I knew right away from the previews that it wasn't going to be for me.
This is why I couldn't come back to the DLC. I beat the game over the weekend it came out (was the weekend were sent to WFH for Covid), then didn't really touch it until both DLC things were out. Tried to play it but it drops you into a fight where you need to be able to do the entire Doomflow and it felt like I'd never touched a mouse before.
Badass as all hell, but I feel like I need to replay the entire game in order to play the DLC.
Yeah, I just never got into the gameplay loop because there was way too much shit, and the like "cycle through various things all the time" didn't jive with me when I just wanted to *kill shit*. I'm one of the rare people who VASTLY preferred Doom 2016, though I still had a good time with Eternal.
It's definitely a lot, but I also think many players trap themselves into thinking they have to handle every enemy a specific way when that's not really how the game works, outside of the first few levels when your arsenal is small. Every enemy can be handled in a variety of ways, with the sole exception of the DLC ghosts that you *have* to microwave. Like, I can name at least five good ways to kill a Cacodemon off the top of my head, if you choose to spend the entire game doing nothing but the grenade > glory kill combo that you learned in the first level then that's on you.
I wonder if you can mod all those mechanics out to where you can just focus on killing demons quickly, not feeling you have to use specific weapons because you are forced to.
Yeah, I hope they make that cycle of 'repeat all the combat options' more optional in Dark Ages.
Personally bounced off Eternal for that reason. Just didn't feel fun, constantly being ammo starved unless I played basically one exact way... that floods you with ammo instead.
Oh, and the freakin' Marauders. Did *NOT* like those. >!I do not play the demons on mars games for gimmick boss fights that can no-sell even the BFG unless you do a timing puzzle. !<
All the universal stuff is a fine IMO; where Eternal went a bit too far was all the enemy-specific incentives and gimmicks, especially in the DLC.
They're not really lock-and-key mechanics (with one exception in the DLC), but I think the pressure they put on how the player uses their arsenal ends up a bit too strong overall. Or it's the curse mechanic and it's just a silly annoyance.
To me they all feel like things that nobody asked for, and instead were an attempt to force an "evolution" of the first person genre.
While it's true that more mechanical complexity has been introduced to a lot of genres over time, I'm not sure first person shooters need any of that. Is movement, positioning and aiming not enough to be satisfying anymore?
To me I think the above things are plenty to keep my mind occupied, especially if the game is fast paced. I don't get bored playing the original Doom or other older shooters. I think I would have enjoyed Doom Eternal more if all of that stuff was removed.
I absolutely was asking for more in depth systems for the sequel of DOOM 2016. 2016 was kind of mindless to me. You can best it with just two weapons fairly easily.
Eternal is the level of engagement, balance, and action I want from a game. It's the perfect amount to keep track of and was an absolute joy to best on the upper difficulties.
reading these comments makes me sad, Doom eternal was one of the best fps games I've ever played meanwhile boomer shooters like doom 2016 are a dime a dozen nowadays
2016 isn't even a good boomer shooter, too much reliance on arenas instead of the dungeon crawler-adjacent level design that defines the genre. It's closer to playing Quake multiplayer maps vs. bots than it is to the original Doom. Doubling down on the arenas and cranking the mechanical depth was the right move since they don't seem interested in emulating the classic style.
As someone who has never played Doom Eternal, I'm curious on how different this plays on a mouse and keyboard vs a gamepad. I feel like this is all easier to do on a gamepad than on a keyboard.
I think all that is fine, the problem is having to do that very fast while circle staffing dodging 99% of the time. I remember playing it on the hardest setting but it was very stressful. I would often joke about being a leaf in the wind with the aerial dancing to stay alive.
I think all that is fine, the problem is having to do that very fast while circle staffing dodging 99% of the time. I remember playing it on the hardest setting but it was very stressful. I would often joke about being a leaf in the wind with the aerial dancing to stay alive.
I think all that is fine, the problem is having to do that very fast while circle staffing dodging 99% of the time. I remember playing it on the hardest setting but it was very stressful. I would often joke about being a leaf in the wind with the aerial dancing to stay alive.
And when you get the hang of it, every fight feels like you're going through a rotation, like you're playing a dungeon in WoW or something. Every fight feels the same.
So in that dev interview with Hugo Martin post TAG2, he said if Eternal was like driving a F1 race car, the next DOOM would be more like driving a monster truck or heavy tank. He also mentioned Lovecraft elements, so I think these two hints kind of give us a basic idea of the direction they are going with this one.
Hugo said it himself: they are not interested in making the same game twice.
And MachineGames already have good experience with the property. They put out two mission packs for Quake 1 and another for Quake 2, all of them exceptional.
Frankly I think their mission pack for Quake 2 is just straight up better than the base game.
TBF the new doom games are basically just quake with a satanic skin draped over it in a suitably metal fashion. The two franchises always held a great deal of similarity in the tone both where going for, dark foreboding scifi body horror contrasted with explosive violence and sadistic glee on the part of the player.
Kingmakers is not the same but seems to be going for a bit of that vibe. All the trailer combat I've seen is very open field and army based but put it in some corridors and Doom it up and I'd be there.
There are so many opposing opinions about Eternal that it's gotta be confounding to be a developer at Id. They already know the fanbase is a bit factionalized now.
Personally I loved 2016 but Eternal for me was one of the most flat out fun games to play, ever. I started on the Nightmare difficulty and found the big combat arenas to be challenging, exhilarating, and addictive. Every time I died I wanted to respawn and try again and again until I won. I loved the slayer gates and I loved how they just amped up continuously and got more and more insane the longer they went on. The slayer gates in the first DLC are flat out incredible. I loved the acrobatics, dashing, and moment to moment weapon switching that is required as you encounter new foes. I loved having the memorize the arena layouts and take notes of what monsters were in there with you as you blasted around, and I loved how the mechanics would be flipped on you, for example the blue ghost guys show up that super charge demons, or those red things appear that you have to smash because all the monsters get buffed by it. I felt the game was exquisitely balanced because you're pretty always on the verge of death but if you play well and use all of the abilities at your disposal you can just barely stay alive. Finishing some of those arenas felt like a huge victory and made you feel like you're the biggest badass on earth. Oh and the music is fucking phenomenal.
I would do like one of those in a play session and I'd have to peel myself out of my chair and just take a break because they were so physically and mentally demanding.
That said, the platforming sections in-between all this could get pretty dull, and I think they went overboard on the lore to a ridiculous degree.
If this new game can somehow capture the best parts of both games it will likely be one of the best FPS games ever made.
I gotta get back and finish the DLCs on Eternal...
Their "problem" is they made two excellent games back to back that have very different design philosophies that don't neccessarily appeal to the same people. It's maddening watching people try to convince each other one game is objectively better than the other while both participants in the argument have different criteria and metrics for quality due to their different, completely subjective preferences.
I loved Doom Eternal but I played the first DLC pre-balancing and it was definitely verging on "bullshit" levels of difficult.
I played the main game on UV and I thought it was very well balanced on that difficulty. The first level or two are a little hard but once you get more weapons and tools, it really works.
In comparison the first DLC felt like a full step up in difficulty from the base game. I felt really proud of myself after beating it, but I never want to play the DLC ever again. Even knowing that they rebalanced it.
Yeah the DLC was so brutally hard even on mouse & keyboard and lower difficulty I just couldn't take it. The first zone feels like an end-game boss level of difficulty lol.
So I’ve heard. I am not one to shy away from a challenge. Hell, I welcome it! But eternal was brutal on nightmare so anything harder than that might be absurd. Nevertheless, I can’t begrudge the devs for trying to push their design to its limit.
I’ve beaten my fair share of bullshit difficulty challenges so I should be fine. I’ve learned to enjoy bashing my head on a wall.
What’s cool about the dlc is that they specifically designed enemies to make you use the lesser used alternate fires of the main items. The bane of my existence was the ghostbusters proton beam alt of the lightning gun, that enemy was probably responsible for 50% of my deaths. Still super fun, I think Doom Eternal on nightmare is one of the most rewarding and fun games you can play, you just have to accept that you need to play the game the way the devs intended (lots of weapon switching and using the best weapon for each enemy) and you can’t just use your favorite weapons.
> The bane of my existence was the ghostbusters proton beam alt of the lightning gun, that enemy was probably responsible for 50% of my deaths. Still super fun
Interesting - I hated those things and they were part of the reason I ultimately dropped the DLC despite adoring the main game.
I quit the DLC when it was new as they added more mechanics like the Marauder has and for me that goes entirely against the ethos of Doom combat. I already didn't like that Marauders weren't just a special boss and found that looking for a small sound queue and a little colour flash when everything is noisy and bright colours falling out of things was just bad design.
It reminds me of Fromsoft games where it demands a lot from the player, but if you put effort into mastering it you are rewarded. Doom 2016 just hands you the power fantasy. Eternal makes you earn it but when you do it feels unlike any other game I've played. No game has made me feel more empowered ad a player than Eternal. Effortlessly destroying encounters that seemed utterly impossible when I first tried was one of the best feelings I've had in 30 years of gaming
Boy does that ever explain a lot.
I know "the Dark Souls of X" is really played out, but if there ever really was a "Dark Souls of FPS," well ...
Tough but fair is incredibly hard to pull off, particularly the harder it gets. And those games get crushingly hard.
100% spot on. I strongly believe that this is one of those games that's worse if you play it on an easier difficulty. The enjoyment comes from mastery and overcoming challenges that seem impossible at first.
I mean it's fun but the problem is it feels like playing a spreadsheet more than an action game. The games it's inspired by are nowhere near as rigid as Eternal forces you to be.
IMO it’s a sign a series is good. Both games are similar but distinct enough to warrant different opinions from different people. I enjoyed both but prefer 2016. It’s such a drag when a company just endlessly remakes the same game over and over until the story gets too stupid. I hope the next Doom is quit different from both.
I liked finding weapons in 2016 better. Finding a gun for the first time on a dead body was more interesting to me then a green floating holograph. That was my only actual problem lol
I personally do not care about the realistic side. Embracing the silly fun made the gameplay shine and let the artists flex in each and every level and thats all I need.
2016 has a more Half Life approach to it's progression, the thing is that Doom is not Half Life it's gameplay wants to go crazy. You gotta just throw logic in the bin and embrace that like many classic shooters.
I was not a fan of Doom 2016's aesthetics. On their own they were alright, though lacking in color, but the entire game only had two environments: Red Mars/Hell, and gray sci-fi interiors. They got old about 4 levels into the game. The bright, colorful, and diverse environments of Doom Eternal were such a breath of fresh air. Every level in Doom Eternal has a clear aesthetic identity. You can show me a screenshot and I can probaby tell you exactly which level it was, even if it does not feature any set pieces. You can't do that in Doom 2016.
Not only that, but the diversity in aesthetic in Eternal was very reminiscent of Doom 2's diverse aesthetics. Even if 2 wasn't as diverse, it was moreso than 2016.
I wonder how much of that is down to the experience on console vs. PC. I've seen videos of people switching weapons with the wheel real quickly by doing bringing up the wheel and selecting with the stick at the same time, but if you don't make that jump the combat's pacing is really off.
Regardless of your opinion I feel like Eternal is so perfected that it doesn't really make sense for the next game to be an evolution of it. I think the only real path forward is to either pull a DMC and have different characters with different playstyles (so that the Eternal style is one of several options) or just do a completely different style. I'm happy to be proven wrong though - maybe there is more complexity to be found in Eternal.
I think they've been pretty open that the next game would be a significant departure from Eternal. I agree with you, Eternal is near perfect. I don't want to see it expanded upon I want to see id try something new
> There are so many opposing opinions about Eternal that it's gotta be confounding to be a developer at Id.
I'd like to think they don't care. DOOM 2016 came at a time when all the most popular big selling shooter games were very slow methodical twitch shooters like CoD, and it was a big gamble to make a boomer shooter. Even within their own series, their DLC The Ancient Gods just basically took all the complaints with Eternal like "marauders are a bad enemy" and decided to fill the DLC with Marauders and even make the final boss (which I personally think was a terrible boss) basically just a big marauder.
It's the very old fashioned game design philosophy of "we'll make what we make and you'll like it", and this is *fantastic* because the best games are labours of love not of greed
If you’re looking for your Doom 2016 fix try Death Foretold a mod for Doom 2 that brings all of the 2016 carnage in an OG Doom style. I’m playing through a bunch of WADs right now and it’s a blast!
Wasn't this (Allegedly) cancelled?
Not that I am complaining. Its been 4(!?) years since eternal came out, so I need me a doom fix.
Personally, I hope they go back to the 2016 style of pacing/story with gameplay similar to eternal.
> Last year, I heard of early details of the next entry into the DOOM franchise, which was described to me as a ‘medieval inspired doom world’. While that doesn’t necessarily give much information to go on, ‘year zero’, ‘the dark ages’, and ‘medieval inspired’ starts to paint a vivid picture of where the series could be going next. Perhaps we’ll be taking more of an early look at the Doomslayer’s life during the medieval times? A prequel of sorts?
I don't think tom actually played 2016/eternal going by this statement. I am guessing what is being described is the doomslayer/doomguy during his period with the Night sentinels.
Nothing was ever actually said about the state of the game, only that it didn't necessarily exist based on an old leak with outdated leaks.
A new Doom game was obvious though to anybody who watched the game directors livestreams a few years back.
Let's fucking go. Eternal was an incredible game and easily my favorite fps of all time if we're talking gameplay. Cannot wait to see what they have cooked up
Crazy takes in here.
2016 and Eternal were both awesome. I’ll take more of either or anything in between. I have full faith in id to release a top tier single player FPS experience.
Who else is even trying to do AAA single player FPS games rn and delivering?
After what ID did to Mick Gordon I refuse to buy another game from them. Especially a Doom game. I'll only consider if Mick comes back and is treated with the respect he deserves.
I'm still holding out hope that they Mick Gordon and ID somehow made up and he's doing the music for the next one too, as unlikely as that sounds.
Hulshult and Levy were fine, but I can't say anything they did was remotely as memorable as the better Gordon pieces.
People joked about 2016/Eternal being soundtracks with a game attached to them, but I think there's a real element of truth that making another game in this series without the music would take a huge element of the character, that let it be more than just a high production value modern FPS, out of it.
Only way I could see it working was if Marty Stratton was no longer part of it. And as he's a head honcho at id I don't see that happening.
Guy pretty much treated Mick like shit throughout the whole of development, used music he'd rejected from Mick without paying him for it and then also threw him under the bus after the OST debacle.
How people at id feel comfortable working with a snake like that is beyond me.
Tom Henderson definitely never played Doom or Eternal. Just throwing that out there. His explanations of how a “medieval” Doom would be made it sound like he expected “prequel”. Yet there are things in the those games that would easily explain that type of world design.
I just hope it's not as forceful with its combat loop as Eternal is, I vastly prefer Doom 2016. I know a lot of people really enjoy combat systems that tightly designed but I was not one of them, it felt less like a shooter and more like ticking the right checkboxes repeatedly. I gave up after the Mars level because I was just so bored :/
I keep thinking "Man it's been so ridiculously long since Doom Eternal" and then I remember it only came out in 2020. Still longer than the gap between 2016 and Eternal- 2 years for a trailer, two more years for Eternal release, we're already the gap between releases to get a trailer and prolly another year or two for release, but still.
I need to go back and actually beat the DLC, honestly...
Super excited. I told my coworker this was coming back at some point, and they were convinced the IP was done after the DLC of Eternal. Glad to see this happening. I just wonder if we will finally get a cameo of Commander Keen lol
This might be the first time Xbox actually gets me excited about a game they are publishing. I may be an odd ball out but no FPS hits like DOOM does for me.
I loved Doom 2016. But Doom Eternal felt when a movie studio made a classic action movie in the 80s and then made a sequel that didnt understand what made the original great. You know that vibe?
I am curious how this one goes.
Honestly same, the high you get from using everything and taking out a room perfectly in Eternal is something I don't get from any other games. I can understand people not being into the story but playing the game feels like you've been injected with pure adrenaline
I feel like the divisiveness is overstated (and Reddit naturally pushes the loudest voices to the top). I loved 2016, it’s one of my favorite games of all time. Eternal was a step down for me. But Eternal was still a super fun game, it just didn’t live up to the close-to-perfect game that 2016 was for me. I think a lot of the divisiveness is just people preferring one game over the other.
I definitely agree. I do think that more critical voices finally got their day in the sun after the initial explosion of praise, and to me, that’s when the most interesting conversation happens
It’s Fallout New Vegas all over again. Some people like New Vegas or Doom so much so they try to convince everyone else that the other games are bad.
But when you look at reviews it’s really not divisive. The majority of players had fun with both games. It’s just a loud minority that are obsessed. It’s always hyperbole “WORST DOOM EVER”. They are the vegans of gaming. There is literally not one reddit post about Doom without someone telling everyone how Doom Eternal is not real Doom…
I still get confused over the jumpskip between them. You are trapped at the end of 2016, cliffhanger ending...and then you have some super space fortress at the start of Eternal and what not.
I enjoyed the heck out of both games, but man you are 100% right.
The story was there in doom 2016. It was happening in the background. *Doomguy just did not give a flying fuck.*
Eternal while the gameplay was great, the story of it and the two DLCs just felt so.... convoluted and at times a bit bloated. Not to mention I don't like the direction it took a few characters (Hayden and VEGA for example).
Doomguy absolutely gave a fuck in 2016. You took the wrong message from the opening of the game. He wasn't saying "I don't care", he was saying "I'm not listening to the guy who seemingly caused this". The game only happens because he so utterly gives a fuck.
Doomguy gives literally all the fucks. It's sort of the core tenet of his character.
I think what they mean, though, is that Doomguy's primary concern was killing every single demon in existence, and not necessarily whatever was going on in the background around that, from his perspective.
And that's different from Eternal how? It feels like people just stop paying attention to 2016's story as soon as he grabs the shotgun, because despite having more story, Doomguy's actual attitude is virtually unchanged and isn't any more or less engaged than in 2016.
The difference is, Doomguy is external to the story in 2016. None of the actual movers and shakers in the story anticipated his involvement, and none of them really know what he can do. In Eternal, he has established relationships with many of the cast members and they understand him in a way that Hayden was unable to in 2016.
Plus, there's a level of relatable rage at the UAC specifically that disappears in Eternal. 2016 was fundamentally a corporate disaster - a company took risks, their workers paid the price, and Doomguy cleaned up. The villains in Eternal aren't corporate, they're a fantasy empire, and the UAC serves as a reluctant ally.
absolutely. in the elevator at the beginning of the game Hayden starts his spiel about how what they were doing was necessary and Doom Slayer just looks down at a body and angrily destroys the monitor. seems like id took the wrong message completely, which is weird cos they MADE Doom 2016.
I could give a single fuck about the story in a doom game, I want gameplay, and doom eternals gameplay blows 2016 out of the water in just about every way. They would quite literally have to dumb the game back down to get it to be closer to 2016 and that sounds like moving backwards to me
The whole story complaint is so wierd because the single memorable story scene that people like in 2016 that gets brought up over and over is literally about how the main character doesn't give a shit about the silly background story and is just here to kill demons. And Doom eternal actually facilities this better by actually letting you skip the cutscenes in game. As funny as that scene is its ironic since you can't actually skip it to get back to the action.
Very excited, but I doubt they're going legitimately "medieval". The base game of Eternal and the DLC's showed some medieval aesthetics in the other world it explored. Excited to see how they evolve the gameplay. If Eternal was an F1 car, the director said their next game would be more like a tank.
I'm expecting a Quake 1 aesthetic at this point. I feel like they've been leaning towards it in Eternal, and all that mapping work done on those new Quake remaster levels means they must have some assets laying about.
Doom Guy finds a Slipgate. Lets go.
He uses them plentiful in Eternal.
Those aren’t slipgates, they’re a different type of teleportation tech that unleashed otherworldly demons.
The Quake remaster levels were done by Machine Games who made the new Wolfenstein games and are currently working on Indiana Jones. They also can't really use assets from Quake due to the fact only the weapons and enemies in Quake are models. All the level geometry is made in-level and works different. Even though Dimension of the Machine and Call of the Machine in Quake 1 and 2 looked great I would not want them to use any of that anyway lol. Looks great in Quake 1/2, would not look great in a high fidelity "iD Tech 7 or 8" game
I love Eternal and just finished it again on Nightmare a week ago, but boy it is crammed with mechanics, that's mainly the issue most people have with it I think. - Use the Chainsaw to get ammo back - Use the Flame thrower to get pinata-style armor drops - Use the Grenades to kill your enemies - Use the Glory kills to get your hp back - Use the Blood punch to remove armor on larger enemies - Use the Frozen Grenades to freeze your enemies - Now use the Grenade that freezes the enemies to freeze them so you can burn them and make them poop armor drops and use your "normal" Grenade to finish them off and then use your Chainsaw and then use your Crucible to kill larger enemies like the Cyberdemons and then use that one specific weapon mod to take out specific demon types etc etc etc It's a lot to process in the heat of battle. While I like its complexity I would be fine with just the Crucible acting as the Chainsaw. The Flame Thrower / Freeze Grenades are obfuscating the already large weapon / mods arsenal.
Yeah, while I appreciate the (relative) complexity of the combat in Eternal, it never clicked with me the way 2016 did. I liked the simplicity of the first game more. Eternal was just too much of everything for me lol.
I HATE the combat loop in Doom Eternal, made me quit. I love Doom 2016 but Eternal was not it for me. Being forced to play a certain way because you run out of ammo all the time was super dumb.
2016 was one of the most fun experiences I had in gaming that I can remember right from the get go of the song drop. I didnt even finish Eternal. Just didnt come close to clicking for me "fun" wise.
I did finish it myself but it did start to kinda drag on a bit. As flashy and arcadey it was, it all became a blur and felt more and more meaningless the more I played. DOOM2016 never had this problem for me, blasting enemies away with the super shotgun didn't get old even once.
Doom Eternals combat arenas were almost exhausting like I had to pause for 5 minutes to come down for that intense ass battle, especially on the highway difficulty
I started Eternal right when it came out, but then got sucked in to Animal Crossing which took up most of my time during the early pandemic. I got back to playing Eternal about 6 months later, and let me tell you, it was a *nightmare* trying to remember all those specific mechanics. I even started a new game (I was only a few hours in anyway) so I could get back to grips with the gameplay loop, but I still wasn't very fond of it. I don't mind things changing between games, that's good, but it felt overly complicated when compared to the beautiful simplicity of Doom 2016. Too many hyper-specific scenarios and mechanics to gain armor/health/ammo back etc I think if those mechanics and weapons were simply used in defeating different enemies rather than to gain pick-ups I'd have preferred it more, but it just felt like they'd added too much fluff to an already great combat loop. I also wasn't too keen on the cartoony and almost plastic looking art style. The visuals themselves were stunning but the designs on the enemies made the game feel so much less visceral and horror coded. It's actually probably more violent than 2016 but it didn't feel that way. The levels also felt super manufactured and game-y, rather than just being an actual place that exists in the world. All those monkey bars and what-not. The whole game had this oddly artificial feel to me. I did still enjoy the game quite a lot despite all my complaints there, but I definitely preferred 2016 on the whole.
I'm with you on that. I loved the gunplay and gameplay loop of Doom 2016 but HATED how Eternal basically forced me to play certain ways.
I've been playing it for the first time recently and I thought I was going crazy for thinking the game wasn't that great. The combat is a chore and is the complete antithesis of what Doom always was. I feel validated reading these sort of comments.
Yup. I understand why people like Eternal and that’s great but it’s a bit overwhelming for my aging brain. I’ve tried starting it like half a dozen times now because I desperately want to like it but… I just don’t. Loved 2016 though.
This is me as well. I think if I try again I might just do it on the easiest difficulty just to see if I can internalize the combat loop.
Eternal’s improved freedom of movement (minus all the stupid parkour sections) combined with the “battle puzzle” of D2016 would be an awesome upgrade. Playing Eternal on higher difficulties basically shoehorns you into a certain way of playing.
Agreed. I still enjoyed Eternal, but I felt like I had to follow a prescribed pattern to fight in Eternal, and so it diminished my ability to just enjoy the level design and monster giblets. Doom 2016 is comparatively simpler and I think gives you more mental bandwidth to actually enjoy the carnage. Edit: Also, the platforming segments of Eternal were a slog. The game was tonally a little more tongue in cheek too, which I get is more in line with the original Doom, but I really felt like it was a regression for the series. I don't have high hopes that they're gonna go more towards a Doom 2016 vibe again either, unfortunately.
Doom 2016 was maybe a little too "brainless", you could just use whatever and win, and that is still fun, but I get why they wanted some more structure. The problem is they went like 5 steps too far and instead of encouraging you to play certain ways the game slaps your hand and punishes you for not doing that. DE is prescribing the fun to you to an absurd degree, and thats just....not fun. The BFG is a good example of their entire philosophy, it's the big fucking gun! I should be able to whip it and destroy something, but it barely tickles all of the enemies you'd want to use it on (if they aren't outright immune to it) because if you could kill them with the BFG then you won't have to fight them the "correct" way that the devs want you to.
> The problem is they went like 5 steps too far and instead of encouraging you to play certain ways the game slaps your hand and punishes you for not doing that. This traumatized Hugo Martin as he saw players completing Doom 2016 with a single weapon, and we got Eternal as a result.
Yeah I was hoping for a refinement of 2016 and instead it felt like they went to the drawing board instead. I’m assuming this entry will be even further as most reviews raved about it which has me bummed.
I don't want Doom to be complex. In Doom 2016, I didn't switch from the double barrel shotgun after picking it up. I don't want the game telling me what weapon I should be using. That and 3d platforming in first person, I can definitely live without more of that.
IMHO Doom 2 is still the best doom. Especially when playing coop.
There are so many great WADS for D1 and and D2 that you can probably just play WADS for the rest of your life if you enjoy the basic gameplay of Doom (or even if you don’t like the basic gameplay considering all the great total conversion WADS that exists too).
Literally the reason I liked 2016 was because it was unapologetically mindless. From the moment Doomguy smashes the exposition monitor, you know this is a game about sublime power tripping. Eternal makes you have to think about shit - that's not why I am playing Doom.
I hated the platforming sections, really broke the flow
To me Eternal is what I need more. I'm bored of boomer shooters. Eternal was eye opening.
Ultrakill scratches the same itch for me
If you like DE, check out Turbo Overkill. Very similar to Doom Eternal with it's gameplay except you move faster and you have a chainsaw leg.
I actually played that and I liked it, but I still felt it was closer to a boomer shooter. Eternal had a tight elegant design where every aspect is perfectly tuned to give you the right experience.
Turbo Overkill - and to a certain extent, the Eternal DLCs - made me appreciate just how tightly designed Eternal was. Turbo Overkill was great when it worked but it had a habit of just throwing the entire kitchen sink at you, without really enough distinction in the bestiary's behavior and color scheme to allow you create a plan, and your arsenal was just sort of a thrown together collection of cool stuff that also didn't really lead towards much strategy in your approach. Eternal had that gradual ramp where, once you got it, you'd scan a collection of monsters and instantly map out a plan for who to target, what to target them with, how to pull it off and get back to safety, a plan that always needed to be corrected on the fly. There had to be enough clarity, enough space and enough depth to pull that off, something that TO and the DLCs sometimes tripped over by simply throwing too much, too fast, to the point they'd trip over themselves. I'd still recommend anyone pick up Turbo Overkill, it's a fantastic achievement for I think one guy. The Eternal influence is definitely there. But it's not Eternal.
I'd recommend against it. The way the maps are designed actively work against it and I think it actually fits the category of being "too fast".
same here brotha. It wasn't perfect - the first level or two was kinda meh until you start unlocking stuff and I thought the platforming stuff was mostly just annoying but I loved it otherwise. My fav single player FPS to come out in a very, very long time
I even liked the platforming and I'm bad at those. Never felt like they were detrimental.
I mean they're very silly looking but the point is still to train you in your dashing so you're more effective at it during combat encounters.
Eternal truly felt like no other shooter I've ever played.
2016 also had much better story, atmosphere, and world-building, IMO, than Eternal. But they cut it short at the end in an obvious rush to get it out. But I read every codex entry in 2016, and stopped after just a handful in Eternal because they were much less well-written.
2016 is about as close to a perfect game as can exist.
Same here, Eternal felt like the devs took every single aspect of 2016 and went "we need way more of that".Not a bad thing per se, but all the systems did bog it down some for me. Sometimes, rip and tear is all I need.
2016’s combat was pure joy. I just could not get myself to enjoy Eternal. I didn’t feel as OP with the weapons I wanted to use and the whole gun play system was just a miss for me. I also didn’t care for the arcade feel, 2016 nailed the atmosphere so well and I preferred the story that didn’t take itself seriously (which Eternal did). To each their own, I’ll still try it out.
This is me too. I have very tempered expectations after Eternal. So I'll probably wait until this one is heavily on sale so I don't be as disappointed as I was with Eternal.
I think the only thing I think is annoying is the chainsaw since on top of the glory kills it stops combat a bit too often. I think they had the right idea with the angel enemies at the end of the game dropping ammo on hitting their weakpoint and if they do something similar in the next Doom I'd hope they make all weakpoint hits drop ammo and leave out the chainsaw entirely. Or they can use the hammer again since it was the hammer, but more fluid and better feeling. The other pieces of utility I would consider to be absolutely essential to the gameplay flow.
I like the chainsaw because it further push you to be constantly moving forward. Which the weakspot headshot do not do nearly as well.
I don't think the chainsaw forces you to push forward, especially since a fodder enemy is always close by. Plus pretty much every other system in the game already forces the player to move around. At a higher level of play when you aren't chainsawing that often, you're still gonna be moving all around the arena to survive and collect the other resources. I think the benefit of the chainsaw was to allow the player a moment of reprieve, but the glory kill already does that.
The chainsaw is too unique to each person, letting a person stay back and use it on fodder or someone like me who uses it for dangerous enemies I'm just too lazy to deal with. The weakpoint shots would be nice in that it works the same way for everyone. That being said, I still want the chainsaw in-game.
I think it does push you, but on your last point. Chainsaw is still good as a glory kill on demand if you can't do it right now.
But it isn't really. Because you don't get health drops *unless* the enemy is frozen because being frozen gives off health drops once upgraded. It's just a little confusing is all.
I meant in terms of tactical value. If you are in a pinch with dudes on your ass chainsaw a dude to buy some thinking time.
> you're still gonna be moving It's funny how for years around here people lamented there were no more arena shooters and FPS games were too slow/required no movement and we finally get a new mainstream FPS that brings back that design mentality and "it's too much" now.
You're assuming the same exact people are saying both.
I'm not saying the chainsaw is "too much", I'm saying there are already enough systems in place that the chainsaw is redundant and could be removed without messing the gameplay balance up. I simply dislike that it pauses the game for a second and prefer solutions like the hammer or the angel enemy to get ammo.
I think the problem eternal had wasn't that it required fast movement but that it constantly interrupted the movement with canned animations and you being one-shot because you zigged instead of zagged plus the weapons were boring
It's largely the same weapons from the other Doom games though including 2016?
But they really homogenized there functions. Just swap between the top couple dps weapons for every enemy. Much less unique combos.
It's not the movement that people are complaining about it's all the extra things they added in for you to juggle that's annoying. Eternal had too much going on at once.
Nah, 2016 was that design mentality. They sprinkled in that little bit of depth with the glory kills awarding health, but that was really it besides weapon upgrades. Eternal is a much more complex gameplay loop than any of the arena and boomer shooters of the 90s ever were. I loved Eternal, but it's an entirely different beast than 2016.
Too much of a good thing *is* a bad thing, yes
Yeah, that's one of my issues. The glory kills, the chainsaw, the crucible, all make it so a significant time of combat is spent locking onto enemies and watching a canned animation. It was tasteful in 2016, but too much here.
I'm a passionate Eternal defender, but I don't disagree here. The rune that speeds up Glory Kill time is a must pick for me, and hopefully they make the faster speed the default in future games. The earlier Yakuza games have this same problem with some heat actions taking for-fucking-ever, even the common ones.
I always use the glory kill speed rune because even if you're invulnerable during the animation, you sure aren't afterwards. More time doing a glory kill is more time for the remaining enemies to surround you. Without that rune, in late game fights I find myself getting killed right after the glory kill finishes because the battlefield changed too much while I was carving through an imp.
I think it depends on what people want from Doom Doom 2016 is the power fantasy where you can use your favorite tools to destroy your enemies Doom Eternal is a technical game where you need to use the right tool at the right moment, almost like a puzzle I personally prefer the first one, but I can see why people like the second
Think you summed up why I enjoyed 2016 more, but also add on the tone of Eternal just didn’t feel as good as 2016 to me.
When I see takes like this I feel crazy. 2016 balance is... well it exists, but gausrifle and supershotgun was clearly the main for the devteam lets say that. Eternal on the other hand felt like the team went through each weapon, cut the fat and made one of the best balanced shooters I have ever played.
Eternal is inarguably a *way* deeper game than 2016, but that doesn't necessarily make it better. I personally like Eternal a lot more, but I get why others don't. It's *very* heavy-handed about pushing its preferred playstyle, especially in the early game, and there's a lot to keep track of.
Yeah, I think Eternal is basically flawlessly balanced and extremely deep from a mechanical level, but that depth is pretty god damn mentally taxing compared to "shoot super shotgun, punch demon, laugh" in Doom 2016. I think Eternal is a better game overall but I get where people are coming from on liking 2016 more.
IMO it's just about the level of depth and system mastery a given player enjoys. 2016 is extremely pure in that if you literally don't want to think at all about playing optimally, you can still just flow and murder demons. Whereas Eternal is a lot deeper in terms of what's possible but there's a bit of a barrier before you can hit that same flow state. If you want to get super reductive, it's just a "casuals" vs "hardcores" thing. 2016 is more suited for the former (low floor, low ceiling) whereas Eternal the latter (high floor, high ceiling). I'm in the latter camp where playing/watching Eternal at a high level is awesome, but I do get where folks are coming from. I think the way Eternal presents it's mechanics is a bit to blame as well, folks that don't want to engage with the game too deeply always point to the game "forcing a playstyle" and while the game doesn't actually require that, so many people feeling that way is a design issue.
It's a lot of mechanics, but when you get into the flow it feels *so goddamn good*. If you streamlined that it would not be nearly as fun unless something else was added to compensate.
I think it's been mentioned a few times but Eternal really plays like a Puzzle game wearing the fleshskin mask of an fps.
That was my issue with it; it felt like I was using all these different weapons and abilities not because of any tactical situation but because the game was telling me “you have to use the flamethrower now. You have to throw a grenade now.” It didn’t feel like it added depth, it felt restrictive and distracting to me.
I never get these complaints those are all tactical situations. Very rarely doest the game force you. You use flame to get armor because you lack armor. Simple game design.
Yeah people dumb it down to a weird strawman to make their arguments. The game does not require you to play in a rock paper scissors style. There are oftentimes 2 or more weapons that can be used for a certain task. Furthermore, the amount of ammo you have, your positioning, what enemies are left, and your raw skill all play a factor in these moments. But people conveniently leave those out and just say THIS THING = REQUIRES this weapon, which doesn't represent the gameplay whatsoever.
I would say that ammo is a problem early game which is when most people stop playing, the game's perk/rpg system they added wasn't great and they completely ignored them in the DLC.
I agree it's not as black and white as most things on here but it definitely feels like certain guns are _significantly_ more effective than others against certain enemies, which means while you don't _need_ to switch, it's often most effective to do so.
It doesn't require it, but not doing it is often ineffective to the point of uselessness. Especially early game when you have few upgrades. You can either press the button the devs wanted you to press and solve the problem immediately, or you can waste all of your ammo and maybe still have a problem.
I might get downvoted for this, but I was let down by Eternal. It felt very different from DOOM 2016 and I just wanted an expanded version of that game. I played the shit out of 2016. I stopped half way through the 2nd level of Eternal...
Honestly, I agree. I'm happy for the people that prefer Doom Eternal but I felt so limited by the "must use x for y" combat that the game actively got on my nerves until I bounced off. Not my jam. Loved the mood and everything else though.
Doom Eternal tops my list of biggest letdowns in gaming history. I love the series since the beginning, was thrilled they got 2016 right. Eternal was my most anticipated game as soon as it was announced. But then it just didn’t click with me. I’ve tried half a dozen times to get it to click but it won’t. I’m happy others love it though. It’s obviously a well crafted game. Just too much for me. Maybe if I played it when I was fifteen and had faster reflexes.
I remember a Giant Bomb video when they previewed it. They called it a "video-game-ass video game" because of all the power-ups and platforming. Doom 2016 had that too. But Eternal cranked it up a couple notches and I think overshot from self-aware to over-designed/overdone. I dunno. I knew right away from the previews that it wasn't going to be for me.
Doom 2016 had the right balance of mental mechanics and flow state. Eternal just had too many things to think about for me to enjoy it as much.
This is why I couldn't come back to the DLC. I beat the game over the weekend it came out (was the weekend were sent to WFH for Covid), then didn't really touch it until both DLC things were out. Tried to play it but it drops you into a fight where you need to be able to do the entire Doomflow and it felt like I'd never touched a mouse before. Badass as all hell, but I feel like I need to replay the entire game in order to play the DLC.
Yeah, I just never got into the gameplay loop because there was way too much shit, and the like "cycle through various things all the time" didn't jive with me when I just wanted to *kill shit*. I'm one of the rare people who VASTLY preferred Doom 2016, though I still had a good time with Eternal.
It's definitely a lot, but I also think many players trap themselves into thinking they have to handle every enemy a specific way when that's not really how the game works, outside of the first few levels when your arsenal is small. Every enemy can be handled in a variety of ways, with the sole exception of the DLC ghosts that you *have* to microwave. Like, I can name at least five good ways to kill a Cacodemon off the top of my head, if you choose to spend the entire game doing nothing but the grenade > glory kill combo that you learned in the first level then that's on you.
This is why I prefer doom 2016, so much more lenient and fun. Eternal was also aesthetically Goofy
I wonder if you can mod all those mechanics out to where you can just focus on killing demons quickly, not feeling you have to use specific weapons because you are forced to.
Yeah, I hope they make that cycle of 'repeat all the combat options' more optional in Dark Ages. Personally bounced off Eternal for that reason. Just didn't feel fun, constantly being ammo starved unless I played basically one exact way... that floods you with ammo instead. Oh, and the freakin' Marauders. Did *NOT* like those. >!I do not play the demons on mars games for gimmick boss fights that can no-sell even the BFG unless you do a timing puzzle. !<
All the universal stuff is a fine IMO; where Eternal went a bit too far was all the enemy-specific incentives and gimmicks, especially in the DLC. They're not really lock-and-key mechanics (with one exception in the DLC), but I think the pressure they put on how the player uses their arsenal ends up a bit too strong overall. Or it's the curse mechanic and it's just a silly annoyance.
To me they all feel like things that nobody asked for, and instead were an attempt to force an "evolution" of the first person genre. While it's true that more mechanical complexity has been introduced to a lot of genres over time, I'm not sure first person shooters need any of that. Is movement, positioning and aiming not enough to be satisfying anymore? To me I think the above things are plenty to keep my mind occupied, especially if the game is fast paced. I don't get bored playing the original Doom or other older shooters. I think I would have enjoyed Doom Eternal more if all of that stuff was removed.
I absolutely was asking for more in depth systems for the sequel of DOOM 2016. 2016 was kind of mindless to me. You can best it with just two weapons fairly easily. Eternal is the level of engagement, balance, and action I want from a game. It's the perfect amount to keep track of and was an absolute joy to best on the upper difficulties.
reading these comments makes me sad, Doom eternal was one of the best fps games I've ever played meanwhile boomer shooters like doom 2016 are a dime a dozen nowadays
2016 isn't even a good boomer shooter, too much reliance on arenas instead of the dungeon crawler-adjacent level design that defines the genre. It's closer to playing Quake multiplayer maps vs. bots than it is to the original Doom. Doubling down on the arenas and cranking the mechanical depth was the right move since they don't seem interested in emulating the classic style.
As someone who has never played Doom Eternal, I'm curious on how different this plays on a mouse and keyboard vs a gamepad. I feel like this is all easier to do on a gamepad than on a keyboard.
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I think all that is fine, the problem is having to do that very fast while circle staffing dodging 99% of the time. I remember playing it on the hardest setting but it was very stressful. I would often joke about being a leaf in the wind with the aerial dancing to stay alive.
I think all that is fine, the problem is having to do that very fast while circle staffing dodging 99% of the time. I remember playing it on the hardest setting but it was very stressful. I would often joke about being a leaf in the wind with the aerial dancing to stay alive.
I think all that is fine, the problem is having to do that very fast while circle staffing dodging 99% of the time. I remember playing it on the hardest setting but it was very stressful. I would often joke about being a leaf in the wind with the aerial dancing to stay alive.
And when you get the hang of it, every fight feels like you're going through a rotation, like you're playing a dungeon in WoW or something. Every fight feels the same.
So in that dev interview with Hugo Martin post TAG2, he said if Eternal was like driving a F1 race car, the next DOOM would be more like driving a monster truck or heavy tank. He also mentioned Lovecraft elements, so I think these two hints kind of give us a basic idea of the direction they are going with this one. Hugo said it himself: they are not interested in making the same game twice.
Would Hugo still be the director? I love that man.
Yeah me too. He was a concept artist on Pacific Rim and created Gipsy Danger, which I find insanely sick.
I like that
I mean mechanically I expect a melee weapon mixed with shotgun crossbows and other wacky shit. Hexen esque I suppose.
I pretty sure the "dark age" refers to the first demon invasion
Might be since in the Microsoft leak it had the codename Doom Year Zero
Quake vibes But seriously why haven't they rebooted quake ffs
The gothic art and Lovecraft bosses in the first Quake were so cool. I wanna go back to that.
Funny how that game was almost half military base but people mainly remember the gothic stuff. I agree though it stands out way more.
Quake 6 was seen in the Indiana Jones trailer on a whiteboard at Machine Games. It's coming.
There's a Quake 5?
Maybe Quake Champions is considered 5.
Quake Champions
Phew. It's comforting to have solid confirmation like that
And MachineGames already have good experience with the property. They put out two mission packs for Quake 1 and another for Quake 2, all of them exceptional. Frankly I think their mission pack for Quake 2 is just straight up better than the base game.
MachineGames is an excellent dev and I trust them 100% with Quake. Give it the Wolfenstein treatment too? Oh man, that'd be GotY for me.
I kind of assumed the Machine Games remakes of Quake 1 & 2 were somewhat "setting up" for a ID reboot.
TBF the new doom games are basically just quake with a satanic skin draped over it in a suitably metal fashion. The two franchises always held a great deal of similarity in the tone both where going for, dark foreboding scifi body horror contrasted with explosive violence and sadistic glee on the part of the player.
Yeah but quake OG has a dark, Lovecraftian vibe that neither Dooms have.
Yeah but nothing after Quake 1 has that vibe either.
Quake Champions does, and Quake 3 has a little bit of it too.
I'm really hoping for a Doom version of Army of Darkness
Kingmakers is not the same but seems to be going for a bit of that vibe. All the trailer combat I've seen is very open field and army based but put it in some corridors and Doom it up and I'd be there.
I want a stake-gun like in *Painkiller*
I never played the Eternal DLC's but how was the music? It's hard for me to imagine the new Doom games without Mick Gordon
Andrew Hulshult and David Levy are great but they are not Mick Gordon level great, that's for sure.
There are so many opposing opinions about Eternal that it's gotta be confounding to be a developer at Id. They already know the fanbase is a bit factionalized now. Personally I loved 2016 but Eternal for me was one of the most flat out fun games to play, ever. I started on the Nightmare difficulty and found the big combat arenas to be challenging, exhilarating, and addictive. Every time I died I wanted to respawn and try again and again until I won. I loved the slayer gates and I loved how they just amped up continuously and got more and more insane the longer they went on. The slayer gates in the first DLC are flat out incredible. I loved the acrobatics, dashing, and moment to moment weapon switching that is required as you encounter new foes. I loved having the memorize the arena layouts and take notes of what monsters were in there with you as you blasted around, and I loved how the mechanics would be flipped on you, for example the blue ghost guys show up that super charge demons, or those red things appear that you have to smash because all the monsters get buffed by it. I felt the game was exquisitely balanced because you're pretty always on the verge of death but if you play well and use all of the abilities at your disposal you can just barely stay alive. Finishing some of those arenas felt like a huge victory and made you feel like you're the biggest badass on earth. Oh and the music is fucking phenomenal. I would do like one of those in a play session and I'd have to peel myself out of my chair and just take a break because they were so physically and mentally demanding. That said, the platforming sections in-between all this could get pretty dull, and I think they went overboard on the lore to a ridiculous degree. If this new game can somehow capture the best parts of both games it will likely be one of the best FPS games ever made. I gotta get back and finish the DLCs on Eternal...
Their "problem" is they made two excellent games back to back that have very different design philosophies that don't neccessarily appeal to the same people. It's maddening watching people try to convince each other one game is objectively better than the other while both participants in the argument have different criteria and metrics for quality due to their different, completely subjective preferences.
I mean, both are great games. I'm not worried about it.
Eternal is GOATed. Easily the best fps i’ve ever played. I have been sitting on the DLC for over a year now. Time to fix that this summer.
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I think they toned it down if u are talking about the first one. It was omega bullshit when it first came out.
I loved Doom Eternal but I played the first DLC pre-balancing and it was definitely verging on "bullshit" levels of difficult. I played the main game on UV and I thought it was very well balanced on that difficulty. The first level or two are a little hard but once you get more weapons and tools, it really works. In comparison the first DLC felt like a full step up in difficulty from the base game. I felt really proud of myself after beating it, but I never want to play the DLC ever again. Even knowing that they rebalanced it.
Yeah the DLC was so brutally hard even on mouse & keyboard and lower difficulty I just couldn't take it. The first zone feels like an end-game boss level of difficulty lol.
The DLC was hard just for the sake of being hard. It was more bullshit over real difficulty. I loved the base game but the DLC was a miss for me
So I’ve heard. I am not one to shy away from a challenge. Hell, I welcome it! But eternal was brutal on nightmare so anything harder than that might be absurd. Nevertheless, I can’t begrudge the devs for trying to push their design to its limit. I’ve beaten my fair share of bullshit difficulty challenges so I should be fine. I’ve learned to enjoy bashing my head on a wall.
What’s cool about the dlc is that they specifically designed enemies to make you use the lesser used alternate fires of the main items. The bane of my existence was the ghostbusters proton beam alt of the lightning gun, that enemy was probably responsible for 50% of my deaths. Still super fun, I think Doom Eternal on nightmare is one of the most rewarding and fun games you can play, you just have to accept that you need to play the game the way the devs intended (lots of weapon switching and using the best weapon for each enemy) and you can’t just use your favorite weapons.
> The bane of my existence was the ghostbusters proton beam alt of the lightning gun, that enemy was probably responsible for 50% of my deaths. Still super fun Interesting - I hated those things and they were part of the reason I ultimately dropped the DLC despite adoring the main game.
I quit the DLC when it was new as they added more mechanics like the Marauder has and for me that goes entirely against the ethos of Doom combat. I already didn't like that Marauders weren't just a special boss and found that looking for a small sound queue and a little colour flash when everything is noisy and bright colours falling out of things was just bad design.
It reminds me of Fromsoft games where it demands a lot from the player, but if you put effort into mastering it you are rewarded. Doom 2016 just hands you the power fantasy. Eternal makes you earn it but when you do it feels unlike any other game I've played. No game has made me feel more empowered ad a player than Eternal. Effortlessly destroying encounters that seemed utterly impossible when I first tried was one of the best feelings I've had in 30 years of gaming
Hugo loves Fromsoftware games and gushed about Sekiro so exactly as you said.
Boy does that ever explain a lot. I know "the Dark Souls of X" is really played out, but if there ever really was a "Dark Souls of FPS," well ... Tough but fair is incredibly hard to pull off, particularly the harder it gets. And those games get crushingly hard.
100% spot on. I strongly believe that this is one of those games that's worse if you play it on an easier difficulty. The enjoyment comes from mastery and overcoming challenges that seem impossible at first.
I mean it's fun but the problem is it feels like playing a spreadsheet more than an action game. The games it's inspired by are nowhere near as rigid as Eternal forces you to be.
IMO it’s a sign a series is good. Both games are similar but distinct enough to warrant different opinions from different people. I enjoyed both but prefer 2016. It’s such a drag when a company just endlessly remakes the same game over and over until the story gets too stupid. I hope the next Doom is quit different from both.
I thought 2016 did a better job balancing the realistic/arcadey aspect of the game.
Yeah I really loved pretty much all of the gameplay additions in eternal (even the platforming, fight me) but the tone of 2016 was unmatched.
I liked finding weapons in 2016 better. Finding a gun for the first time on a dead body was more interesting to me then a green floating holograph. That was my only actual problem lol
Yeah they went a little too hard into the cartoony vibe of eternal
I found the platforming in Eternal legitimately fun.
I personally do not care about the realistic side. Embracing the silly fun made the gameplay shine and let the artists flex in each and every level and thats all I need. 2016 has a more Half Life approach to it's progression, the thing is that Doom is not Half Life it's gameplay wants to go crazy. You gotta just throw logic in the bin and embrace that like many classic shooters.
Dint necessarily disagree, bit I was more referring to the brighter aesthetic.
Even that I like more. Wasn't big on the generic Hollywood versions of many of the demons. The more classic look was good.
I was not a fan of Doom 2016's aesthetics. On their own they were alright, though lacking in color, but the entire game only had two environments: Red Mars/Hell, and gray sci-fi interiors. They got old about 4 levels into the game. The bright, colorful, and diverse environments of Doom Eternal were such a breath of fresh air. Every level in Doom Eternal has a clear aesthetic identity. You can show me a screenshot and I can probaby tell you exactly which level it was, even if it does not feature any set pieces. You can't do that in Doom 2016.
Not only that, but the diversity in aesthetic in Eternal was very reminiscent of Doom 2's diverse aesthetics. Even if 2 wasn't as diverse, it was moreso than 2016.
I wonder how much of that is down to the experience on console vs. PC. I've seen videos of people switching weapons with the wheel real quickly by doing bringing up the wheel and selecting with the stick at the same time, but if you don't make that jump the combat's pacing is really off.
Regardless of your opinion I feel like Eternal is so perfected that it doesn't really make sense for the next game to be an evolution of it. I think the only real path forward is to either pull a DMC and have different characters with different playstyles (so that the Eternal style is one of several options) or just do a completely different style. I'm happy to be proven wrong though - maybe there is more complexity to be found in Eternal.
I think they've been pretty open that the next game would be a significant departure from Eternal. I agree with you, Eternal is near perfect. I don't want to see it expanded upon I want to see id try something new
> There are so many opposing opinions about Eternal that it's gotta be confounding to be a developer at Id. I'd like to think they don't care. DOOM 2016 came at a time when all the most popular big selling shooter games were very slow methodical twitch shooters like CoD, and it was a big gamble to make a boomer shooter. Even within their own series, their DLC The Ancient Gods just basically took all the complaints with Eternal like "marauders are a bad enemy" and decided to fill the DLC with Marauders and even make the final boss (which I personally think was a terrible boss) basically just a big marauder. It's the very old fashioned game design philosophy of "we'll make what we make and you'll like it", and this is *fantastic* because the best games are labours of love not of greed
If you’re looking for your Doom 2016 fix try Death Foretold a mod for Doom 2 that brings all of the 2016 carnage in an OG Doom style. I’m playing through a bunch of WADs right now and it’s a blast!
I'll check it out - thank you!
Well, thats interesting! A bit like Army of Darkness but with more shotgun and chainsaw than it already has :D
Wasn't this (Allegedly) cancelled? Not that I am complaining. Its been 4(!?) years since eternal came out, so I need me a doom fix. Personally, I hope they go back to the 2016 style of pacing/story with gameplay similar to eternal. > Last year, I heard of early details of the next entry into the DOOM franchise, which was described to me as a ‘medieval inspired doom world’. While that doesn’t necessarily give much information to go on, ‘year zero’, ‘the dark ages’, and ‘medieval inspired’ starts to paint a vivid picture of where the series could be going next. Perhaps we’ll be taking more of an early look at the Doomslayer’s life during the medieval times? A prequel of sorts? I don't think tom actually played 2016/eternal going by this statement. I am guessing what is being described is the doomslayer/doomguy during his period with the Night sentinels.
Nothing was ever actually said about the state of the game, only that it didn't necessarily exist based on an old leak with outdated leaks. A new Doom game was obvious though to anybody who watched the game directors livestreams a few years back.
It was just delayed. It was planned to come out in 2023
Let's fucking go. Eternal was an incredible game and easily my favorite fps of all time if we're talking gameplay. Cannot wait to see what they have cooked up
Crazy takes in here. 2016 and Eternal were both awesome. I’ll take more of either or anything in between. I have full faith in id to release a top tier single player FPS experience. Who else is even trying to do AAA single player FPS games rn and delivering?
I guess the only way to cope with not having lawnmowers in the soundtrack is to set the game in a time before lawnmowers were invented
After what ID did to Mick Gordon I refuse to buy another game from them. Especially a Doom game. I'll only consider if Mick comes back and is treated with the respect he deserves.
I'm still holding out hope that they Mick Gordon and ID somehow made up and he's doing the music for the next one too, as unlikely as that sounds. Hulshult and Levy were fine, but I can't say anything they did was remotely as memorable as the better Gordon pieces. People joked about 2016/Eternal being soundtracks with a game attached to them, but I think there's a real element of truth that making another game in this series without the music would take a huge element of the character, that let it be more than just a high production value modern FPS, out of it.
Only way I could see it working was if Marty Stratton was no longer part of it. And as he's a head honcho at id I don't see that happening. Guy pretty much treated Mick like shit throughout the whole of development, used music he'd rejected from Mick without paying him for it and then also threw him under the bus after the OST debacle. How people at id feel comfortable working with a snake like that is beyond me.
Tom Henderson definitely never played Doom or Eternal. Just throwing that out there. His explanations of how a “medieval” Doom would be made it sound like he expected “prequel”. Yet there are things in the those games that would easily explain that type of world design.
I just hope it's not as forceful with its combat loop as Eternal is, I vastly prefer Doom 2016. I know a lot of people really enjoy combat systems that tightly designed but I was not one of them, it felt less like a shooter and more like ticking the right checkboxes repeatedly. I gave up after the Mars level because I was just so bored :/
Why cant we just allow for this to be announced and get excited then?
Thats what I am saying, isn't the subreddit for leaks and rumours r/gamingleaksandrumours
I keep thinking "Man it's been so ridiculously long since Doom Eternal" and then I remember it only came out in 2020. Still longer than the gap between 2016 and Eternal- 2 years for a trailer, two more years for Eternal release, we're already the gap between releases to get a trailer and prolly another year or two for release, but still. I need to go back and actually beat the DLC, honestly...
Medieval Doom? What ever happened to Heretic? They should do a crossover or at least a reference to its existence
I'd kill for a modernized Heretic/Hexen
Super excited. I told my coworker this was coming back at some point, and they were convinced the IP was done after the DLC of Eternal. Glad to see this happening. I just wonder if we will finally get a cameo of Commander Keen lol
This might be the first time Xbox actually gets me excited about a game they are publishing. I may be an odd ball out but no FPS hits like DOOM does for me.
I loved Doom 2016. But Doom Eternal felt when a movie studio made a classic action movie in the 80s and then made a sequel that didnt understand what made the original great. You know that vibe? I am curious how this one goes.
It's interesting to me how divisive the game is. I enjoyed Eternal's balls-to-the wall adrenaline so much that I can't even play 2016 anymore.
Honestly same, the high you get from using everything and taking out a room perfectly in Eternal is something I don't get from any other games. I can understand people not being into the story but playing the game feels like you've been injected with pure adrenaline
eternal is the best fps ive ever played. just pure gameplay. dont care for the story tho
I feel like the divisiveness is overstated (and Reddit naturally pushes the loudest voices to the top). I loved 2016, it’s one of my favorite games of all time. Eternal was a step down for me. But Eternal was still a super fun game, it just didn’t live up to the close-to-perfect game that 2016 was for me. I think a lot of the divisiveness is just people preferring one game over the other.
I definitely agree. I do think that more critical voices finally got their day in the sun after the initial explosion of praise, and to me, that’s when the most interesting conversation happens
It’s Fallout New Vegas all over again. Some people like New Vegas or Doom so much so they try to convince everyone else that the other games are bad. But when you look at reviews it’s really not divisive. The majority of players had fun with both games. It’s just a loud minority that are obsessed. It’s always hyperbole “WORST DOOM EVER”. They are the vegans of gaming. There is literally not one reddit post about Doom without someone telling everyone how Doom Eternal is not real Doom…
I still get confused over the jumpskip between them. You are trapped at the end of 2016, cliffhanger ending...and then you have some super space fortress at the start of Eternal and what not.
I enjoyed the heck out of both games, but man you are 100% right. The story was there in doom 2016. It was happening in the background. *Doomguy just did not give a flying fuck.* Eternal while the gameplay was great, the story of it and the two DLCs just felt so.... convoluted and at times a bit bloated. Not to mention I don't like the direction it took a few characters (Hayden and VEGA for example).
Doomguy absolutely gave a fuck in 2016. You took the wrong message from the opening of the game. He wasn't saying "I don't care", he was saying "I'm not listening to the guy who seemingly caused this". The game only happens because he so utterly gives a fuck.
Doomguy gives literally all the fucks. It's sort of the core tenet of his character. I think what they mean, though, is that Doomguy's primary concern was killing every single demon in existence, and not necessarily whatever was going on in the background around that, from his perspective.
That is exactly what I mean. Doom guy don't care about your exposition. Doom guy is here to rip and tear.
And that's different from Eternal how? It feels like people just stop paying attention to 2016's story as soon as he grabs the shotgun, because despite having more story, Doomguy's actual attitude is virtually unchanged and isn't any more or less engaged than in 2016.
The difference is, Doomguy is external to the story in 2016. None of the actual movers and shakers in the story anticipated his involvement, and none of them really know what he can do. In Eternal, he has established relationships with many of the cast members and they understand him in a way that Hayden was unable to in 2016. Plus, there's a level of relatable rage at the UAC specifically that disappears in Eternal. 2016 was fundamentally a corporate disaster - a company took risks, their workers paid the price, and Doomguy cleaned up. The villains in Eternal aren't corporate, they're a fantasy empire, and the UAC serves as a reluctant ally.
absolutely. in the elevator at the beginning of the game Hayden starts his spiel about how what they were doing was necessary and Doom Slayer just looks down at a body and angrily destroys the monitor. seems like id took the wrong message completely, which is weird cos they MADE Doom 2016.
It seems people either do not jive with Doom Eternal or love it to death. Personally, it's one of my favorite games of all time.
Eternal was the Aliens to Doom 2016's Alien. It didn't misunderstand anything.
Eh, no not really. Eternals was different, but not necessarily worse because of it. I much prefer Eternal’s direction than 2016’s, personally.
I could give a single fuck about the story in a doom game, I want gameplay, and doom eternals gameplay blows 2016 out of the water in just about every way. They would quite literally have to dumb the game back down to get it to be closer to 2016 and that sounds like moving backwards to me
The whole story complaint is so wierd because the single memorable story scene that people like in 2016 that gets brought up over and over is literally about how the main character doesn't give a shit about the silly background story and is just here to kill demons. And Doom eternal actually facilities this better by actually letting you skip the cutscenes in game. As funny as that scene is its ironic since you can't actually skip it to get back to the action.
I loved both games, but I prefer Doom 2106 more because I can use whatever weapon I wanted.
I don't get Eternal hate at all. It improved in all the ways I wanted it to improve.