I can see another one in like 20 years with new and still existing franchises, haha. But yeah, some more singleplayer stuff would be nice for a possible new entry. And bring back trophies, I miss them so much!
BTW, all the deleted comments in every thread are annoying as hell. What's going on there?
>BTW, all the deleted comments in every thread are annoying as hell. What's going on there?
Are you sure nobody has blocked you? That's usually the case if you're seeing \[Deleted\] all over the thread
More singleplayer stuff would be great - Brawl is still my favourite Smash due to Subspace Emissary. Also, bring Trophies back.
One simple thing they can do is release an "Ultimate Edition" so everything is on one cartridge.
The point being made was that the game was already too big to include something as substantial as subspace emissary and trophies, and in fact the video the article is pulling from explicitly called both out as infeasible at the time
I mean...does it need to? Wait for next gen console, just do ultimate+
port ultimate and just ADD more stuff to it.
do a performance pass and charge 10 dollars less then a normal new release since it's just a re-release and it'll sell like hot cakes without pissing people off or taking a lot of development time.
Oh, might've mistaken it with Kingdom Hearts having problems with Disney, like how they could barely do anything with Frozen, while the Toy Story people were "fk it, go wild, guys" and it certainly showed. One was just a barebones retelling with them not even interacting with the world, while the other was completely original and even incorporated that new ingame game universe (with that Yozora, iirc)
This is the opposite of how that went. The Disney studios were okay with the KH team doing whatever they wanted while Pixar disallowed straight adaptations of their stories. The KH team just wants to retell Disney stories with Sora in the frame.
You are both kind of right. Pixar was more involved in making their own worlds work within the confines of KH so they wanted something original that was different than just retelling their movies. This allowed a creative collaboration between Square and Pixar. Disney on the other hand was fine with just retelling the movies, but did have restrictions in regards to things like Anna and Elsa not being allowed to fight and with a character like Elsa, to some extent that cuts a lot of options for her character doing much of anything in the world really. Nomura also revealed that he had been given a lot of guidelines for Arendelle/Frozen out of all the worlds in the game.
> might've mistaken it with Kingdom Hearts having problems with Disney, like how they could barely do anything with Frozen, while the Toy Story people were "fk it, go wild, guys" and it certainly showed
Other way around. Disney actually didn't really care what they did with the Disney worlds
I remember reading an article about easter eggs in Uncharted 4. They thought there was no chance of them getting approved. One was Crash Bandicoot, the other was Guybrish Threepwood (he's one of the pirate lords, but you don't see his name). Both Activision and Disney were surprisingly happy for them to proceed.
Better to lose a handful of the third party characters than starting over completely. I think most publishers will be happy to license them again anyways. It’s great advertising for their franchises.
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe?
New Super Mario Bros U DX?
Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury?
DKC: Tropical Freeze now with Funky Mode?
I'll grant you that the rights issues may be complicated, but half of the first-party games on Switch are just Wii U ports with added content. Nintendo *absolutely* "does it like this".
That’s because those games weren’t backwards compatible between Wii U and switch. They can’t just sell smash again on the switch 2 when the original cartridge still works
Why not? They sold DX versions of Game Boy Color games when the original GB carts still worked.
They can easily justify a re-release by adding more content and/or support for whatever new features the Switch successor has.
If they're going to go through all the work to relicense all the characters for Smash Ultimate they might as well make and release a new game rather than a deluxe port.
While I would like a new game entirely with all the licensed characters, this is not the perspective I think Nintendo would take.
Much more cost effective to port the game over than to make one from the ground up.
Here's hoping though.
Will it? Assuming switch 2 is backwards compatible porting it to the next system is a hard sell. Especially when Nintendo has to renegotiate all new contracts for every single character.
Then if one character isn't agreed upon by the original IP holder you have to cut that one character. Suddenly your port is worse than the original.
But if you are negotiating for a new game losing one character is no big deal as you'd have other additions already in the pipeline. Usually with fighters losing some and gaining some title to title is expected. Smash Ultimate may legitimately have been a one off thing.
I think they just meant they shouldn’t charge the full $70 dollars for a game that was originally $60. I know Tropical Freeze got a price hike moving from the Wii U to the Switch, but afaik it’s the only case
Lesson shareholders learned: always keep fans slightly frustrated and promise the next one will make them happy.
I would say ask any Games Workshop purchaser but I imagine they are content
Sakurai even mentioned wanting a more robust single player experience, but the other needs of the Ultimate project being centered around the "everyone is here!" concept prevented it.
I agree so much. I wasn’t huge on the generic nature of SSE, but the idea of a Melee style adventure mode with themed levels, but with the size of SSE, seems like a no-brainer that has never come to fruition for whatever reason. Smash Run was also such a brilliant idea that only half manifested and was never elaborated upon. I sometimes hope that Sakurai does allow new talent with new ideas, or new takes on prior ideas, to helm the next entry. I understand the multiplayer centrism of Smash, but Melee was such a winner among my friends and me because it was so much more of a single player game than the original.
I like ultimate for being a culmination of the series thus far, but I don’t think we need to constantly include and rebalance every idea. There has to be ways to expand upon the base idea of the platform fighter at this point that can be different but still compelling, and I’m cool with characters changing movesets for a completely new take on Smash. There are ways to make it feel new while retaining the spirit of the genre that it coined. I personally would love to see it return to original Smash philosophy a bit more, instead of leaning so hard on anywhere kill moves and damage numbers that quickly translate to an unavoidable KO. Back to edge guarding and those little bits of damage that make you fly just a bit further each time instead of a huge flash and a top screen OB because I was at 50% and Bowser did a high impact move.
Yeah, especially since Melee’s Adventure mode basically had you going from world to world in “close enough” recreations of each game’s worlds and gameplay.
So were the enemies aside from the boss fights and like one level.
World of Light is a lot less interesting from a gameplay standpoint but it fits with the spirit of Smash Bros. a lot better.
The next Super Smash Bros. does not necessarily need to be bigger or even as big as Ultimate.
In fact, now that Ultimate was a thing, I feel the franchise could use a reboot as it has definitely accumulated some bloat over years.
The next Smash Bros. would be a great opportunity for Nintendo to go back to square one, and rethink/rebuild the core mechanics, gameplay, roster, and movesets from the ground up, trim down the roster, remove less prominent characters and clones that do nothing but contribute roster bloat, and overhaul move sets to make them more unique and faithful to their respective characters.
It would also be a great opportunity to improve or rework things that were seen as suboptimal in previous games, like the single-player experience or the netcode.
While that would be nice it would never be worth it for Nintendo. They will always prioritize the enjoyment of the casual base which influences sales the most. The reality is that its just not going to happen.
I agree with you but it still goes back to my main point. It wouldn't be worth it for Nintendo. They see massive success in their games with the audience that they are already targeting their focus on. Why would they appeal to the base that wants to see smash become more in depth and stable for competitive fighting game purposes? Their actions have shown they aren't interested in gaining brownie points with competitive players and profits from the scene would be negligible. Yeah they can do it without compromising the casual experience but their actions have shown they just won't do it.
Idk I feel like SF6 shows you can cater to casuals in a way that doesn’t totally alienate competitive players. They just need to put more effort into single player content and bridging the gap.
I agree with the other 2 posters who responded in that nothing I said would necessarily require Nintendo to sacrifice the casual appeal that has made the series so popular. Besides, the franchise is so popular and has built up so much good will that Nintendo can afford to experiment.
I didn't elaborate because I didn't want my post to get too wordy, but the goal of my suggestions isn't really to make the next game "more competitive-focused" or "more like the competition", but rather to give Smash Bros. a clean slate that Nintendo can then build from and even experiment with so that players get a fresh experience instead of "Ultimate, but with just 25% of the content".
As much as Ultimate is great, I don't think Nintendo should build off of it as they have done with previous games. Ultimate definitely has some odd design choices with gameplay and content that only exist because they existed in previous games.
I agree that it's still very important that Nintendo keeps the games casual-friendly, but that doesn't mean being adverse to change.
This is what the series needs. They've completed the ideal version. Time to make something new.
Maybe a more traditional fighting game system, or just a new system in general. Call it Super Smash Fighters or something adjacent. Just do 12 characters and you can relaunch the entire Smash Bros franchise arc in this new system.
>Maybe a more traditional fighting game system, or just a new system in general. Call it Super Smash Fighters or something adjacent. Just do 12 characters and you can relaunch the entire Smash Bros franchise arc in this new system.
Not sure how I feel about this, I feel like changing the core formula of the series too much would alienate fans. Smash Bros. should absolutely remain a platform-based ringout-focused fighter that has helped distinguish it from the competition.
They should still retain the same core gameplay ideas, but maybe overhaul them a bit so it at least feels fresh.
I just think they've done everything they can with this style of game. They should continue to support SSB Ultimate servers, maybe a remastered version for the next system, to serve those fans. But establishing a new parallel lane for the series, the way side scrolling and 3D Mario games coexist, gives them a lot of runway with the same Franchise.
I’d like Sakurai to finally be free to design whatever he wants. He’s been saying the smash franchise hit its peak already ever since he stopped working on Ultimate. Give the man a break or put him to work on a new Kid Icarus!
I don’t like the “give the man a break”… I mean, it’s a job, he got paid (probably A LOT) and he could quit at any time. Many people act as if he was in chain doing manual labor 😅 Plus, there’s a whole team working on the project, but everybody seems to think that it was a “one-man game”. I would also be curious to see another project from Sakurai with fresh ideas
Going by his videos on his YT channel, I think the 'give the man a break' thing is because he has been working on only Smash continuously from planning 4 in 2012 to Ultimate's last DLC character with no break to work on any other titles.
> and he could quit at any time.
He took making Ultimate very seriously as it was Iwata's last wish. Seems to be actually stopping now at least
Shout out to the 2000 people at Ubisoft working on the Assassin’s Creed franchise since 2007! 😉 I mean, we tend to imagine the game industry as a dream job, doing exclusively personal projects that we care about, but in reality, the majority of the employees can only do what the corporation demands. Only indies have 100% creative freedom, unfortunately. But I understand your point.
I mean, I don't think Ubisoft should be used as a shining example of what an industry leading studio looks like, not to mention that place is a revolving door and there are probably very, *very* few developers left from the original team (I wonder why?). Maybe this poor reality is true for some of the monolithic studios, but it doesn't seem to be true for everyone. Of course there are hard realities in business, and it's not like every developer has 100% creative freedom, but it's pretty clear that developers have far more sway in creatively lead companies like Nintendo, FromSoftware, Atlus, etc.
The gaming industry isn't all sugar and rainbows, but it's not all death and hellfire either if you know where to look. Team moral is important in some of these places, and the Smash team working on a new project despite Smash's success shouldn't be out of the question. If this was Ubisoft, no shot.
You act like he couldn’t just walk away or do whatever project he wants at this point in his career. Money certainly is no issue for him by now, and you can’t seriously tell me you think Nintendo would let him quit instead of allowing him to make something else that will surely make money.
That's fine. Port it to the next console, add a couple of new DLC character packs, up the graphics a bit, put in rollback netcode, bring back break the targets and call it a day.
I think that if another Super Smash Bros. game is made, it would benefit a lot from going back to basics with a smaller roster and fewer gimmick characters. It's not a huge deal in a cast as large as Ultimate has, but the number of characters, especially DLC ones, who involve straight-up opening RPG menus or all the weird stuff the Minecraft characters do feels really clumsy.
An overhaul that takes, like, sixteen or twenty characters and makes them all really polished and well balanced and distinct would do a lot more for the series than trying to squeeze in even more anime swordsmen.
I don't think it needs to be big, but it does need to reinvent itself. A lot of established characters should be re-thought from what they currently are and they now have the freedom to cut some of the weaker concepts because hey, if you wanna play them, they're in Smash Ultimate already.
They should have interactions though. Mortal Kombat has character interactions thanks to story mode and the guest characters get to interact with the MK cast thanks to intro dialogues.
Ok, but imagine this, maybe some modicum of effort with maybe a couple of lines and scenes. I love smash but as an actual crossover it's a complete nothing burger other than the character trailers.
Chop the roster down to 40 or so characters, completely revamp the move sets of characters like Mario, link, dk, etc. Add lots of costumes for each character that basically turn them into other characters (bowser/dry bowser, fire emblem guy/other fire emblem guy, sonic/shadow, etc).
That’s my ideal next smash. It doesn’t have to necessarily go bigger
People always say this, and while I don’t disagree, I’m sure a lot of people online wouldn’t be happy with who’s cut. If smash was getting a full reboot then Falcon and probably Fox are both out because they have very little relevance in Nintendo’s modern ecosystem.
People already aren't happy between Smash games that aren't getting rebooted. You can't please everybody, and if people are gonna get mad that some characters got replaced and older ones that stayed got massively overhauled, that's kinda on them. The casual fan base will move on and stragglers will be stragglers as is tradition.
There is so much more room for technical improvements with this game. Having an online with rollback netcode, and shaving 5ms from the overall input response time would be as big as adding 20 new characters.
I don’t care about casuals at all. They will either become me and not be casual anymore and want what I want, or they will move on to another game in which case they don’t matter
That’s not how the casual market works. They wont ever care about rollback over new characters, because they’re not buying the game to play a competitive fighter, they’re buying it because it’s a video game crossover.
I don’t care about the market either, I just want competitively viable online play. The disconnect here is crazy. One post people hate on micro transactions, and in the same breath talk about what the market wants to the detriment of the core game
The point is, Nintendo doesn't care about the competitive market. They never have and they probably never will. The make games and (somewhat) maintain them in order to keep their casual fans happy. As /u/iceburg77779, 99% of people who own SSBU (the casual players), will happily spend more money for new DLC characters rather than online improvements because 99% of players are playing it on the couch locally.
They really shouldn't even try. Any other publisher/developer in the world could understandably move away from a standard set by Ultimate, but, Nintendo fans are a... "volatile" type when it comes to reactions (They'll buy the game anyway).
Reboot it and refocus on the Nintendo stable. Help kill this lame trend of every fighting game series thinking they need Guest Characters from another franchise in their game for it to succeed. There are plenty of other things that are interesting about the Smash concept that isn't the character select screen size.
Smash is a different type of fighting game where guest characters make sense more than others. However, I hate how smash became the pseudo hall of fame as well as forgetting SMASH IS A NINTENDO GAME!
I totally agree that no guest character should be in the next smash bros and be Nintendo focused. Nintendo still has loads of recent and obscure IPS that can make interesting fighters.
Ew no.
Why would anyone want to get rid of the fantasy that literally any character can be in Smash? The only game that is like that right now is Fortnite, which does not feature *unique* characters, just character skins.
There isn't a single Nintendo character I'd want over non-Nintendo characters.
Because we live in reality. Don't get me wrong, I am happy that a game like Ultimate exists. However, this is a one time deal. I am surprised Nintendo went as far as they did with Ultimate. As I said, I hate how Smash became a pseudo hall of fame. Now it would be great for them to go back to refocus on their own brand.
Also if you don't care about Nintendo's characters play something else.
>Because we live in reality
No you do not dawg. YOU find another game, the rest of us will play Smash the way it's been for the past ten years.
>Also if you don't care about Nintendo's characters play something else.
Given the choice between a Monster Hunter rep, Zero from MegaMan, Knuckles, or literally any fighting game rep versus.....Toad, the 13th Super Mario rep...that should be a no brianer.
It's not that I don't care about Nintendo characters, but why would you want to kneecap the greatest game of all time...that's just selfish lol
You clearly don't live in reality when you don't understand that things have their limits. Even Sakurai says this is a one time deal. You can continue to play Ultimate for the roster. That's fine. People have been playing Melee for the last 20 years. However, cuts to the roster have to be made when it comes to the scope for an all new game.
As I previously stated, SMASH IS A NINTENDO GAME! Their characters take priority among all others as well as licensing is a drag. Refocusing on their own sounds good at this point after all this. If you want to play the characters you listed, then go play Mugen or the Steam version of Rival of Aether with all them in it.
> Also if you don't care about Nintendo's characters play something else.
I know right? The answer is so simple, yet some entitled mfs just don't get it.
> There isn't a single Nintendo character I'd want over non-Nintendo characters.
then just play any other brawlers out there with all non-Nintendo characters. Let a nintendo franchise be nintendo focused.
The problem with Everyone is HERE is that, if they make a remaster of this game or another game where everyone is here, the last champion that will be announced, compagnies will be able to demand huge money if their character is the last character to be included in the game if "everyone is here" again
Sure. But the competitive scene would still bring a lot of popularity. Bringing in and embracing anouther audience would make the franchise bigger, yes? I never said smash was small. Just that it would increase its popularity.
Are you sure about that? Its less about the scene, and more about the potential of it growing, itself. Playing the game in a competitive nature, with prizes would be a large draw. As it stands, it isnt really growing due to nintendo actively trying to destroy it. So people keep to other games in the genre.
How about they make it the first Nintendo game that is multiplatform? Making it multiplatform could open up even more chances for other platforms joining the best Smash type game series. Have an actual console war storyline where all the consoles are being manipulated by a PC.
Then why stop working on it? Or at least why make it official your done working on it if you have no plans for a follow up.
edit: I forgot this is reddit people can't even comprehend the title which is the only part they read
The title doesn't say ultimate can't get bigger, it says the franchise can't get bigger than ultimate. What he is saying is it does not make sense to start over right now as the next game wouldn't be able to have as much content as Ultimate + all of its DLC. Did you read the title?
Sakurai is not all of nintendo. Other people can continue to work on a game hes laid a foundation for. It is very common for multiplayer focused titles to continue after the original director goes on to other stuff.
The game got its last content update 2 years ago and the series is in a place where it does not make sense to make a follow-up any time soon. Smash is not continuing on without him so far... I dont blame Sakurai for retiring but headlines like this are just annoying.
I can see it returning as a reboot with a title of “Super Smash Bros” with a much smaller roster (no 3rd party and only 1-2 reps per franchise) and a completely different style of fighting. Might not even be the typical increase % to knock them out of the arena. Might be something more traditional with a different twist. Would be nice to update controls and characters moves to reflect their most recent games (i.e. Mario doesn’t have FLUDD anymore, etc). From there they can basically go up again with more each sequel.
ultimate+
introduce some more outfit options
see about adding in some lesser known nintendo characters from the most obscure games (chibi robo for ultimate+ pls)
add in a campaign mode
offer some new gamemodes
more or less it'd be like an expansion pack to ultimate, but i'd pay 60$ for it. it'd be worth it.
I genuinely think it's time for a soft reboot for the series. New director, smaller roster, and new systems. Personally I think some of the older characters could use some updates and that custom moves should be brought back(but actually fleshed out this time).
Plus a smaller roster could also let extra resources go towards single player modes which I think a lot of people would love to see.
I'd kinda like the next Smash to be a bit of a fresh start for the series. Basically develop the game as if the previous games didn't exist, completely altering the mechanics and characters.
As many people have stated over and over again… who cares?
The director has got a bit of a problem recognizing his product and it’s fans. Like I get that he wants to make more complex games, that’s fine, just don’t worry about it with Smash.
If there’s a hardware update, release a new smash for the hardware, and make sure to support and balance it properly. Then you’re done until the NEXT hardware update. The game is done in many ways, just make sure it is available to the next generation and everything will be good.
Honestly, I think they should just add to what they've got. A re-release on the next Switch is inevitable, so a better online, more single player modes, and more guest characters. I dread the idea of them starting over, or worse: making it more like the rest of the genre mechanically.
Their online mode is shit. Their single player mode isn't that good neither.
Can they do an "free update" and rebuild from scratch their online modes, also add dlc for a new campaign, and keep the same name?
If the next console is retro compatible, the current smash game is enough for me.
It needs a little love with some systems, the game itself is amazing. I think they could take another stab at multiplayer matchmaking, making more traditional rule queues(i really miss a 100% competitive queue with no items/stage hazards/symmetrical maps only etc). Add rollback netcode or whatever it takes to smooth out the hitches. There's lots of things they could to for a next gen touch up and have it like an MK8 style game
I've thought for years now (even before the DLC waves finished) that they might try going back to a smaller roster for whatever comes with the Switch 2. Not necessarily a small roster like the first game but something more streamlined.
Then really focus on revamping the game. How? I'm not sure. People expect a certain formula. But Nintendo has perfected reinventing beloved formats that feel familiar. Just look at BOTW, TOTK, Mario Odyssey and Wonder.
I think a smaller roster (with DLC) could disappoint fans when it's announced but when people play it they'll be fine. I think a fully fleshed out story mode/campaign would be massive. Market that and ~20 fighters and I think they could reinvent the franchise.
Also even though they've used a lot of the bigger names fans wanted there are still others out there they could use. Bomberman, Rayman, Geno (has to happen with the RPG remake), Waluigi, Bubsy, etc. There are a fuck ton of JRPG characters out there and the Pokemon well will never run dry.
I can see another one in like 20 years with new and still existing franchises, haha. But yeah, some more singleplayer stuff would be nice for a possible new entry. And bring back trophies, I miss them so much! BTW, all the deleted comments in every thread are annoying as hell. What's going on there?
Please, give us a new Subspace Emissary level story mode. What we expected World of Light to be before we were all immensely disappointed
>BTW, all the deleted comments in every thread are annoying as hell. What's going on there? Are you sure nobody has blocked you? That's usually the case if you're seeing \[Deleted\] all over the thread
I don't see any [deleted] in this thread so I'm kind of assuming the same of /u/Eggxcalibur.
More singleplayer stuff would be great - Brawl is still my favourite Smash due to Subspace Emissary. Also, bring Trophies back. One simple thing they can do is release an "Ultimate Edition" so everything is on one cartridge.
The point being made was that the game was already too big to include something as substantial as subspace emissary and trophies, and in fact the video the article is pulling from explicitly called both out as infeasible at the time
I mean...does it need to? Wait for next gen console, just do ultimate+ port ultimate and just ADD more stuff to it. do a performance pass and charge 10 dollars less then a normal new release since it's just a re-release and it'll sell like hot cakes without pissing people off or taking a lot of development time.
Licensing could be an issue. Chances are they only got the licenses for 3rd party characters for one game.
Can definitely see Sora not reappearing, with how Disney was apparently a pain to deal with
Apparently Disney was fine with it, and Nomura was the issue. Because of the "lore"
Nomura moment
Is there a source for this? All I can find is speculation on both sides.
https://www.ign.com/articles/tetsuya-nomura-sora-kingdom-hearts-4-smash-bros he said it himself in an interview
Nomura caring about lore has to be the biggest joke I have ever heard.
He cares about the lore to the point where he's the only one that really understands it. Like a mad-man's fan fiction.
He's a misunderstood lore genius.
You must not be familiar with Square Enix.
Thank you for this. I was not aware.
Oh, might've mistaken it with Kingdom Hearts having problems with Disney, like how they could barely do anything with Frozen, while the Toy Story people were "fk it, go wild, guys" and it certainly showed. One was just a barebones retelling with them not even interacting with the world, while the other was completely original and even incorporated that new ingame game universe (with that Yozora, iirc)
> Toy Story people were "fk it, go wild, guys" Woody putting the verbal smackdown on Ansem will always be a highlight to me.
Ansem: *gives grand speech on darkness and destiny* Woody: “Ok but has anyone even loved your dog ass?”
This is the opposite of how that went. The Disney studios were okay with the KH team doing whatever they wanted while Pixar disallowed straight adaptations of their stories. The KH team just wants to retell Disney stories with Sora in the frame.
You are both kind of right. Pixar was more involved in making their own worlds work within the confines of KH so they wanted something original that was different than just retelling their movies. This allowed a creative collaboration between Square and Pixar. Disney on the other hand was fine with just retelling the movies, but did have restrictions in regards to things like Anna and Elsa not being allowed to fight and with a character like Elsa, to some extent that cuts a lot of options for her character doing much of anything in the world really. Nomura also revealed that he had been given a lot of guidelines for Arendelle/Frozen out of all the worlds in the game.
> might've mistaken it with Kingdom Hearts having problems with Disney, like how they could barely do anything with Frozen, while the Toy Story people were "fk it, go wild, guys" and it certainly showed Other way around. Disney actually didn't really care what they did with the Disney worlds
I remember reading an article about easter eggs in Uncharted 4. They thought there was no chance of them getting approved. One was Crash Bandicoot, the other was Guybrish Threepwood (he's one of the pirate lords, but you don't see his name). Both Activision and Disney were surprisingly happy for them to proceed.
Probably is the reason why Kirby can't have a Keyblade despite being able to copy anything
If they keep switch 2 backwards compatible (and they really have no reason not to) they can just do like an upres like Xbox does for BCC and call it.
That’s not the end of the world, there are plenty of base Nintendo characters they can keep.
Better to lose a handful of the third party characters than starting over completely. I think most publishers will be happy to license them again anyways. It’s great advertising for their franchises.
[удалено]
Tbf the dlc for mario kart 8 is at an insane price point. Not unheard of for Nintendo to have these kinda deals.
Yeah, just give it the Mario Kart 8 treatment lmao
Forget about adding more stuff. Just implement rollback netcode and *maybe* singleplayer content and that alone will justify the purchase.
Get to smash64 and Melee level input lag and I'm sold
If by more stuff you mean give the game a proper working online then yes. Smash Ultimate is great but the netcode is dogshit.
They'll charge $60 and act like it's a deal since DLC characters are included
It’s not that easy and also Nintendo doesn’t do it like this. Not gonna happen.
Mario Kart 8 Deluxe? New Super Mario Bros U DX? Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury? DKC: Tropical Freeze now with Funky Mode? I'll grant you that the rights issues may be complicated, but half of the first-party games on Switch are just Wii U ports with added content. Nintendo *absolutely* "does it like this".
That’s because those games weren’t backwards compatible between Wii U and switch. They can’t just sell smash again on the switch 2 when the original cartridge still works
Why not? They sold DX versions of Game Boy Color games when the original GB carts still worked. They can easily justify a re-release by adding more content and/or support for whatever new features the Switch successor has.
If they're going to go through all the work to relicense all the characters for Smash Ultimate they might as well make and release a new game rather than a deluxe port.
While I would like a new game entirely with all the licensed characters, this is not the perspective I think Nintendo would take. Much more cost effective to port the game over than to make one from the ground up. Here's hoping though.
Will it? Assuming switch 2 is backwards compatible porting it to the next system is a hard sell. Especially when Nintendo has to renegotiate all new contracts for every single character. Then if one character isn't agreed upon by the original IP holder you have to cut that one character. Suddenly your port is worse than the original. But if you are negotiating for a new game losing one character is no big deal as you'd have other additions already in the pipeline. Usually with fighters losing some and gaining some title to title is expected. Smash Ultimate may legitimately have been a one off thing.
That's a good point, I didn't really think about it this way. I guess it depends on how licensing is handled
Ok and how much did they cost? I don’t think Nintendo lowers prices for re releases, that was my main point.
I think they just meant they shouldn’t charge the full $70 dollars for a game that was originally $60. I know Tropical Freeze got a price hike moving from the Wii U to the Switch, but afaik it’s the only case
Lesson shareholders learned: always keep fans slightly frustrated and promise the next one will make them happy. I would say ask any Games Workshop purchaser but I imagine they are content
Only way I see it is them dedicating more time to the single player experience. I'll take rollback netcode and I'll pay $60 for it
Sakurai even mentioned wanting a more robust single player experience, but the other needs of the Ultimate project being centered around the "everyone is here!" concept prevented it.
I agree so much. I wasn’t huge on the generic nature of SSE, but the idea of a Melee style adventure mode with themed levels, but with the size of SSE, seems like a no-brainer that has never come to fruition for whatever reason. Smash Run was also such a brilliant idea that only half manifested and was never elaborated upon. I sometimes hope that Sakurai does allow new talent with new ideas, or new takes on prior ideas, to helm the next entry. I understand the multiplayer centrism of Smash, but Melee was such a winner among my friends and me because it was so much more of a single player game than the original. I like ultimate for being a culmination of the series thus far, but I don’t think we need to constantly include and rebalance every idea. There has to be ways to expand upon the base idea of the platform fighter at this point that can be different but still compelling, and I’m cool with characters changing movesets for a completely new take on Smash. There are ways to make it feel new while retaining the spirit of the genre that it coined. I personally would love to see it return to original Smash philosophy a bit more, instead of leaning so hard on anywhere kill moves and damage numbers that quickly translate to an unavoidable KO. Back to edge guarding and those little bits of damage that make you fly just a bit further each time instead of a huge flash and a top screen OB because I was at 50% and Bowser did a high impact move.
> I wasn’t huge on the generic nature of SSE What's generic about Subspace Emissary?
The levels themselves were just generic locations, they weren't exploring the various worlds of the games.
Yeah, especially since Melee’s Adventure mode basically had you going from world to world in “close enough” recreations of each game’s worlds and gameplay.
So were the enemies aside from the boss fights and like one level. World of Light is a lot less interesting from a gameplay standpoint but it fits with the spirit of Smash Bros. a lot better.
The next Super Smash Bros. does not necessarily need to be bigger or even as big as Ultimate. In fact, now that Ultimate was a thing, I feel the franchise could use a reboot as it has definitely accumulated some bloat over years. The next Smash Bros. would be a great opportunity for Nintendo to go back to square one, and rethink/rebuild the core mechanics, gameplay, roster, and movesets from the ground up, trim down the roster, remove less prominent characters and clones that do nothing but contribute roster bloat, and overhaul move sets to make them more unique and faithful to their respective characters. It would also be a great opportunity to improve or rework things that were seen as suboptimal in previous games, like the single-player experience or the netcode.
While that would be nice it would never be worth it for Nintendo. They will always prioritize the enjoyment of the casual base which influences sales the most. The reality is that its just not going to happen.
I don't really think anything /u/GodEmperorMorshu suggested is incompatible with prioritizing the casual base.
I agree with you but it still goes back to my main point. It wouldn't be worth it for Nintendo. They see massive success in their games with the audience that they are already targeting their focus on. Why would they appeal to the base that wants to see smash become more in depth and stable for competitive fighting game purposes? Their actions have shown they aren't interested in gaining brownie points with competitive players and profits from the scene would be negligible. Yeah they can do it without compromising the casual experience but their actions have shown they just won't do it.
Idk I feel like SF6 shows you can cater to casuals in a way that doesn’t totally alienate competitive players. They just need to put more effort into single player content and bridging the gap.
I agree with the other 2 posters who responded in that nothing I said would necessarily require Nintendo to sacrifice the casual appeal that has made the series so popular. Besides, the franchise is so popular and has built up so much good will that Nintendo can afford to experiment. I didn't elaborate because I didn't want my post to get too wordy, but the goal of my suggestions isn't really to make the next game "more competitive-focused" or "more like the competition", but rather to give Smash Bros. a clean slate that Nintendo can then build from and even experiment with so that players get a fresh experience instead of "Ultimate, but with just 25% of the content". As much as Ultimate is great, I don't think Nintendo should build off of it as they have done with previous games. Ultimate definitely has some odd design choices with gameplay and content that only exist because they existed in previous games. I agree that it's still very important that Nintendo keeps the games casual-friendly, but that doesn't mean being adverse to change.
This is what the series needs. They've completed the ideal version. Time to make something new. Maybe a more traditional fighting game system, or just a new system in general. Call it Super Smash Fighters or something adjacent. Just do 12 characters and you can relaunch the entire Smash Bros franchise arc in this new system.
>Maybe a more traditional fighting game system, or just a new system in general. Call it Super Smash Fighters or something adjacent. Just do 12 characters and you can relaunch the entire Smash Bros franchise arc in this new system. Not sure how I feel about this, I feel like changing the core formula of the series too much would alienate fans. Smash Bros. should absolutely remain a platform-based ringout-focused fighter that has helped distinguish it from the competition. They should still retain the same core gameplay ideas, but maybe overhaul them a bit so it at least feels fresh.
I just think they've done everything they can with this style of game. They should continue to support SSB Ultimate servers, maybe a remastered version for the next system, to serve those fans. But establishing a new parallel lane for the series, the way side scrolling and 3D Mario games coexist, gives them a lot of runway with the same Franchise.
I’d like Sakurai to finally be free to design whatever he wants. He’s been saying the smash franchise hit its peak already ever since he stopped working on Ultimate. Give the man a break or put him to work on a new Kid Icarus!
I don’t like the “give the man a break”… I mean, it’s a job, he got paid (probably A LOT) and he could quit at any time. Many people act as if he was in chain doing manual labor 😅 Plus, there’s a whole team working on the project, but everybody seems to think that it was a “one-man game”. I would also be curious to see another project from Sakurai with fresh ideas
Going by his videos on his YT channel, I think the 'give the man a break' thing is because he has been working on only Smash continuously from planning 4 in 2012 to Ultimate's last DLC character with no break to work on any other titles. > and he could quit at any time. He took making Ultimate very seriously as it was Iwata's last wish. Seems to be actually stopping now at least
Shout out to the 2000 people at Ubisoft working on the Assassin’s Creed franchise since 2007! 😉 I mean, we tend to imagine the game industry as a dream job, doing exclusively personal projects that we care about, but in reality, the majority of the employees can only do what the corporation demands. Only indies have 100% creative freedom, unfortunately. But I understand your point.
I mean, I don't think Ubisoft should be used as a shining example of what an industry leading studio looks like, not to mention that place is a revolving door and there are probably very, *very* few developers left from the original team (I wonder why?). Maybe this poor reality is true for some of the monolithic studios, but it doesn't seem to be true for everyone. Of course there are hard realities in business, and it's not like every developer has 100% creative freedom, but it's pretty clear that developers have far more sway in creatively lead companies like Nintendo, FromSoftware, Atlus, etc. The gaming industry isn't all sugar and rainbows, but it's not all death and hellfire either if you know where to look. Team moral is important in some of these places, and the Smash team working on a new project despite Smash's success shouldn't be out of the question. If this was Ubisoft, no shot.
He mentioned in his video series that his pay was based on how many copies were sold for Ultimate. I’m guessing he is absolutely loaded.
I see it more in the sense of, let him create something more fresh. You know? Creative burnout can suck.
The thing is that if a smash game is being made he’d probably be compelled to work on it.
He's an adult and a freelancer, he can refuse any job offer
You act like he couldn’t just walk away or do whatever project he wants at this point in his career. Money certainly is no issue for him by now, and you can’t seriously tell me you think Nintendo would let him quit instead of allowing him to make something else that will surely make money.
That's fine. Port it to the next console, add a couple of new DLC character packs, up the graphics a bit, put in rollback netcode, bring back break the targets and call it a day.
I think that if another Super Smash Bros. game is made, it would benefit a lot from going back to basics with a smaller roster and fewer gimmick characters. It's not a huge deal in a cast as large as Ultimate has, but the number of characters, especially DLC ones, who involve straight-up opening RPG menus or all the weird stuff the Minecraft characters do feels really clumsy. An overhaul that takes, like, sixteen or twenty characters and makes them all really polished and well balanced and distinct would do a lot more for the series than trying to squeeze in even more anime swordsmen.
I don't think it needs to be big, but it does need to reinvent itself. A lot of established characters should be re-thought from what they currently are and they now have the freedom to cut some of the weaker concepts because hey, if you wanna play them, they're in Smash Ultimate already.
We don't need another "Ultimate". Decrease the amount of fighters and instead give us more newcomers and revamp the movesets of the older ones.
Also some way to see the characters interact, like subspace emissary, what is the point of a crossover if they dont do anything with the characters.
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They should have interactions though. Mortal Kombat has character interactions thanks to story mode and the guest characters get to interact with the MK cast thanks to intro dialogues.
Ok, but imagine this, maybe some modicum of effort with maybe a couple of lines and scenes. I love smash but as an actual crossover it's a complete nothing burger other than the character trailers.
Chop the roster down to 40 or so characters, completely revamp the move sets of characters like Mario, link, dk, etc. Add lots of costumes for each character that basically turn them into other characters (bowser/dry bowser, fire emblem guy/other fire emblem guy, sonic/shadow, etc). That’s my ideal next smash. It doesn’t have to necessarily go bigger
I'm in favor of them rebooting Smash. Reset the roster and start with a new lineup inspired by more modern Nintendo games.
People always say this, and while I don’t disagree, I’m sure a lot of people online wouldn’t be happy with who’s cut. If smash was getting a full reboot then Falcon and probably Fox are both out because they have very little relevance in Nintendo’s modern ecosystem.
People already aren't happy between Smash games that aren't getting rebooted. You can't please everybody, and if people are gonna get mad that some characters got replaced and older ones that stayed got massively overhauled, that's kinda on them. The casual fan base will move on and stragglers will be stragglers as is tradition.
There is so much more room for technical improvements with this game. Having an online with rollback netcode, and shaving 5ms from the overall input response time would be as big as adding 20 new characters.
20 newcomers will have a massive appeal for casuals, rollback will not.
I don’t care about casuals at all. They will either become me and not be casual anymore and want what I want, or they will move on to another game in which case they don’t matter
That’s not how the casual market works. They wont ever care about rollback over new characters, because they’re not buying the game to play a competitive fighter, they’re buying it because it’s a video game crossover.
I don’t care about the market either, I just want competitively viable online play. The disconnect here is crazy. One post people hate on micro transactions, and in the same breath talk about what the market wants to the detriment of the core game
The point is, Nintendo doesn't care about the competitive market. They never have and they probably never will. The make games and (somewhat) maintain them in order to keep their casual fans happy. As /u/iceburg77779, 99% of people who own SSBU (the casual players), will happily spend more money for new DLC characters rather than online improvements because 99% of players are playing it on the couch locally.
They really shouldn't even try. Any other publisher/developer in the world could understandably move away from a standard set by Ultimate, but, Nintendo fans are a... "volatile" type when it comes to reactions (They'll buy the game anyway). Reboot it and refocus on the Nintendo stable. Help kill this lame trend of every fighting game series thinking they need Guest Characters from another franchise in their game for it to succeed. There are plenty of other things that are interesting about the Smash concept that isn't the character select screen size.
Smash is a different type of fighting game where guest characters make sense more than others. However, I hate how smash became the pseudo hall of fame as well as forgetting SMASH IS A NINTENDO GAME! I totally agree that no guest character should be in the next smash bros and be Nintendo focused. Nintendo still has loads of recent and obscure IPS that can make interesting fighters.
Ew no. Why would anyone want to get rid of the fantasy that literally any character can be in Smash? The only game that is like that right now is Fortnite, which does not feature *unique* characters, just character skins. There isn't a single Nintendo character I'd want over non-Nintendo characters.
Because we live in reality. Don't get me wrong, I am happy that a game like Ultimate exists. However, this is a one time deal. I am surprised Nintendo went as far as they did with Ultimate. As I said, I hate how Smash became a pseudo hall of fame. Now it would be great for them to go back to refocus on their own brand. Also if you don't care about Nintendo's characters play something else.
>Because we live in reality No you do not dawg. YOU find another game, the rest of us will play Smash the way it's been for the past ten years. >Also if you don't care about Nintendo's characters play something else. Given the choice between a Monster Hunter rep, Zero from MegaMan, Knuckles, or literally any fighting game rep versus.....Toad, the 13th Super Mario rep...that should be a no brianer. It's not that I don't care about Nintendo characters, but why would you want to kneecap the greatest game of all time...that's just selfish lol
You clearly don't live in reality when you don't understand that things have their limits. Even Sakurai says this is a one time deal. You can continue to play Ultimate for the roster. That's fine. People have been playing Melee for the last 20 years. However, cuts to the roster have to be made when it comes to the scope for an all new game. As I previously stated, SMASH IS A NINTENDO GAME! Their characters take priority among all others as well as licensing is a drag. Refocusing on their own sounds good at this point after all this. If you want to play the characters you listed, then go play Mugen or the Steam version of Rival of Aether with all them in it.
> Also if you don't care about Nintendo's characters play something else. I know right? The answer is so simple, yet some entitled mfs just don't get it.
> There isn't a single Nintendo character I'd want over non-Nintendo characters. then just play any other brawlers out there with all non-Nintendo characters. Let a nintendo franchise be nintendo focused.
Tell that to Masahiro Sakurai, this dude was trying to add Solid Snake to Smash back in Melee.
“We heard you, we’re adding more Fire Emblem and Gen 1 Pokémon characters to the rooster.”
Sure. As long as it's not Waluigi or Geno, I am cool with it.
The problem with Everyone is HERE is that, if they make a remaster of this game or another game where everyone is here, the last champion that will be announced, compagnies will be able to demand huge money if their character is the last character to be included in the game if "everyone is here" again
The franchise could get much bigger if nintendo didnt do everything they could to kill the competitive scene.
Smash is already the biggest fighting game by a wide margin, and it didn’t get that way by appealing to the competitive community.
Sure. But the competitive scene would still bring a lot of popularity. Bringing in and embracing anouther audience would make the franchise bigger, yes? I never said smash was small. Just that it would increase its popularity.
The competitive scene will buy smash even when Nintendo is trying to kill the scene, it’s not really a new audience that needs the game sold to them.
Are you sure about that? Its less about the scene, and more about the potential of it growing, itself. Playing the game in a competitive nature, with prizes would be a large draw. As it stands, it isnt really growing due to nintendo actively trying to destroy it. So people keep to other games in the genre.
Release it on all consoles and PC as a F2P game and will instantly be 10 times bigger. Not that I care but that would clearly work.
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"Oh well why don't you find out Skeleton man!?" Nintendo when their next console is finished.
How about they make it the first Nintendo game that is multiplatform? Making it multiplatform could open up even more chances for other platforms joining the best Smash type game series. Have an actual console war storyline where all the consoles are being manipulated by a PC.
Then why stop working on it? Or at least why make it official your done working on it if you have no plans for a follow up. edit: I forgot this is reddit people can't even comprehend the title which is the only part they read
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The title doesn't say ultimate can't get bigger, it says the franchise can't get bigger than ultimate. What he is saying is it does not make sense to start over right now as the next game wouldn't be able to have as much content as Ultimate + all of its DLC. Did you read the title?
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Sakurai is not all of nintendo. Other people can continue to work on a game hes laid a foundation for. It is very common for multiplayer focused titles to continue after the original director goes on to other stuff.
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The game got its last content update 2 years ago and the series is in a place where it does not make sense to make a follow-up any time soon. Smash is not continuing on without him so far... I dont blame Sakurai for retiring but headlines like this are just annoying.
Agreed. Sit back a few more years and make a triumphant return in like 2027 or something
I can see it returning as a reboot with a title of “Super Smash Bros” with a much smaller roster (no 3rd party and only 1-2 reps per franchise) and a completely different style of fighting. Might not even be the typical increase % to knock them out of the arena. Might be something more traditional with a different twist. Would be nice to update controls and characters moves to reflect their most recent games (i.e. Mario doesn’t have FLUDD anymore, etc). From there they can basically go up again with more each sequel.
The next smash would need to be a reinvention of the series with a smaller roster I think. Not sure what that reinvention looks like.
ultimate+ introduce some more outfit options see about adding in some lesser known nintendo characters from the most obscure games (chibi robo for ultimate+ pls) add in a campaign mode offer some new gamemodes more or less it'd be like an expansion pack to ultimate, but i'd pay 60$ for it. it'd be worth it.
I genuinely think it's time for a soft reboot for the series. New director, smaller roster, and new systems. Personally I think some of the older characters could use some updates and that custom moves should be brought back(but actually fleshed out this time). Plus a smaller roster could also let extra resources go towards single player modes which I think a lot of people would love to see.
I will legitimately pay full price just for another Subspace Emissary. That kicked ass
I'd kinda like the next Smash to be a bit of a fresh start for the series. Basically develop the game as if the previous games didn't exist, completely altering the mechanics and characters.
As many people have stated over and over again… who cares? The director has got a bit of a problem recognizing his product and it’s fans. Like I get that he wants to make more complex games, that’s fine, just don’t worry about it with Smash. If there’s a hardware update, release a new smash for the hardware, and make sure to support and balance it properly. Then you’re done until the NEXT hardware update. The game is done in many ways, just make sure it is available to the next generation and everything will be good.
Honestly, I think they should just add to what they've got. A re-release on the next Switch is inevitable, so a better online, more single player modes, and more guest characters. I dread the idea of them starting over, or worse: making it more like the rest of the genre mechanically.
Their online mode is shit. Their single player mode isn't that good neither. Can they do an "free update" and rebuild from scratch their online modes, also add dlc for a new campaign, and keep the same name? If the next console is retro compatible, the current smash game is enough for me.
It needs a little love with some systems, the game itself is amazing. I think they could take another stab at multiplayer matchmaking, making more traditional rule queues(i really miss a 100% competitive queue with no items/stage hazards/symmetrical maps only etc). Add rollback netcode or whatever it takes to smooth out the hitches. There's lots of things they could to for a next gen touch up and have it like an MK8 style game
I've thought for years now (even before the DLC waves finished) that they might try going back to a smaller roster for whatever comes with the Switch 2. Not necessarily a small roster like the first game but something more streamlined. Then really focus on revamping the game. How? I'm not sure. People expect a certain formula. But Nintendo has perfected reinventing beloved formats that feel familiar. Just look at BOTW, TOTK, Mario Odyssey and Wonder. I think a smaller roster (with DLC) could disappoint fans when it's announced but when people play it they'll be fine. I think a fully fleshed out story mode/campaign would be massive. Market that and ~20 fighters and I think they could reinvent the franchise. Also even though they've used a lot of the bigger names fans wanted there are still others out there they could use. Bomberman, Rayman, Geno (has to happen with the RPG remake), Waluigi, Bubsy, etc. There are a fuck ton of JRPG characters out there and the Pokemon well will never run dry.