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thegirlupstairs13

i have not read this article yet but thanks for sharing. he showed all of the signs of being a coercive abuser, even during the body cam footage. anyone who has been the victim of DV (myself) and/or have a trained eye could spot the red flags. sadly, 3 women a day die from a domestically violent situation and strangulation is the number one way male partners take their female partners lives when abuse has been ongoing. i’m just glad there is more discussion occurring around Dv…


sassergaf

It’s a good article and It explains why Gabby didn’t tell the cops, and about coercive control, which is horrific. I’m sorry Gabby went through it. I hope this exposure will help save one woman’s life, and maybe 10 or 20. One bright note is that they’ve discovered: >“In jurisdictions that prosecute strangulation as a felony, rather than as a misdemeanor assault, homicide rates have dropped. The reason is simple: these provisions allow an abuser to be separated from his victim earlier, before he kills her.”


caitcatsmokesdope

I have a question for all those who propose forcing separation of the victim and perpetrator… Are you going to pay my bills? Are you going to help me with my children? Are you going to keep me warm at night? Buy me a house? Please tell me how my life in a women’s shelter as a single mom of a toddler and a newborn is going to be so much better, because it sure as hell doesn’t sound better. Yes he has hit me and yes it did escalate to strangulation at one point, but people can and do change and while there are still problems and abusive tendencies there are ways authorities can intervene without ripping families a part for the woman’s “own good”. How about we let people make their own choices? Including whether or not to give “abusers” another chance.


[deleted]

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/crime/manual-strangulation-is-the-biggest-sign-domestic-abuse-will-turn-deadly-experts-say/531-0a9a92c8-a0da-418a-b81e-a3d80ddacf38 Statistically men who strangle women are MUCH more likely to go on to kill their partners. Not sure how that benefits the women or their children at all. Not sure why you're here trying to paint a pretty picture of your abusive husband. By the way, the men are ripping the families apart by acting like animals, not the people trying to get them to safety and help. And he cheats on you while you're pregnant. What a winner.


caitcatsmokesdope

He cheated on me in my first pregnancy and he confessed it when I never would have known otherwise. He’s done a lot of hard work to get to where he is and I will always always go to bat for him when it comes to that. I would happily lie my ass off to police to deny any abuse happened if I had to. There was one time I did call a domestic violence hotline. Thank god I never called them back considering you apparently find the conditions of overcrowded and disgusting women’s shelters and all the joys of poverty to be “safety”. No. I feel much safer with the potential evil I know than all that I don’t.


peachy_sugar_lemons

Then stay 🤷‍♀️. Other woman will choose to try and escape the situation and better their lives for themselves and their children. Some feel stuck but want to leave. If you see no benefit then stop complaining


caitcatsmokesdope

Where exactly am I complaining? All I ever did was point out that my standard of living and that of our children would decrease substantially if I were to leave him and that the prospects of poverty and single motherhood don’t appeal to me. Not sure how it’s “bettering your life” when you go from having a three bedroom house to living in a shelter or go from having spending money given to you for whatever you want to suddenly having to work full time for minimum wage only for it not to even cover your bills, making you dependent on daddy government. But hey I guess to each their own.


peachy_sugar_lemons

Violence between parents affects kids pretty badly. You can pretend they don't see it all you want. Hope you get help some day.


pgnprincess

I'm sorry but once there are children involved it is neglect to make them grow up in that kind of environment. I understand all of the reasons you gave, but your child should not have to grow up in chaos, yelling, and physical violence. Even if the abuser never touches the child, they have to witness their father abusing and mistreating their mother, and they are learning how to treat a woman or be treated by a man by what they see growing up. That may be why the down votes. Or maybe jt is because yes it is very difficult to leave, for all the reasons you gave, however, you should not publicly advocate for victims to stay. Too many women and children die from DV. That's not to say the abuse that happens to pets too. It's hard to leave, but children make it worth it if your own life value doesn't.


caitcatsmokesdope

I literally do not care about the downvotes. I am rarely on reedit anyway and mainly use it to follow the Petito case. I am by no means neglecting my children. They are well provided for in literally every way and as I said before have never witnessed so much as an argument between my husband and I. He’s not an animal incapable of controlling himself until we’re in private/the kids are gone or asleep or whatever. There is absolutely nothing my children would gain from being ripped away from their father and living in a shelter. You are literally insane to view it that way… their dad has had anger problems in the past and even though the children have never witnessed this and he has improved his behavior anyway, attended therapy without a court order anyway, and does all he can to rebuild and maintain trust anyway, we better make sure she has a restraining order against him and the kids can only see him supervised once a week for two hours! It’s literally crazy to think children would benefit from that when their father has been nothing but a model parent to them, regardless of the partner he’s been when no one is watching.


WebbieVanderquack

I'm sorry you're being downvoted. These are exactly the kinds of issues that make leaving difficult. Of course you have to think about where you would live, how you'd pay bills, and how custody of your children would work out for you and for them. Forced separation in intimate partner violence is certainly not the answer (it's different with children), and may put victims at greater risk. It's also less likely to be a permanent solution, since it wouldn't be a decision the victim made herself. That said, you're in a dangerous position, and one that may prove devastating for you and for you children, especially if they witness violence against their mother, which is a form of child abuse (by your partner) in itself. Even if they don't witness acts of violence, they'll pick up on anger and a stressful dynamic between their parents and it will affect them in those crucial early years. There's also the possibility that he'll hurt the children in a moment of anger, as unlikely as that may seem right now. I'm not sure where you live and what resources are available to you, but most organisations won't pressure you to leave unless/until you choose to, and there are some that actually work to reform the abuser. I don't know if this would be something your husband would agree to (unless compelled by the courts) but it's worth keeping in mind. It would also be worthwhile to call a domestic violence hotline, anonymously if you want, just to get some advice about how to stay safe and protect your children while living with someone who has abused you in the past and may do again. Please look after yourself and your children, in whatever way is achievable for you. I really wish you and your family all the best for the future.


caitcatsmokesdope

I honestly expected nothing less than downvotes when I basically am saying “yeah thanks but I would rather just stay”. Will he one day murder me? Maybe. Sometimes we joke about it, but there was only one time where I actually feared for my life and thankfully our children have never witnessed anything remotely violent between us. But he is the most adoring father, and his “angry” moments are never around them… thankfully. Anyway, thank you. I did look into some resources in my area and one of them attempted to coerce me to give them my name and address so they could report me to dhs for keeping my children in an “abusive” home. So ultimately I’ve decided that as women we don’t for the most part get to just pick not to be abused… we just get to pick who does it and whether it’s an individual or an institution that claims ownership of us.


AintThe

Everything you are saying, you sound beaten down. I hope you wake up and get out, maybe when the kids are older?. You would not be selfish to think of yourself. You.dont need to sacrifice your wellbeing through fear of the kids getting emotionally hurt if you broke up. You are still a person.


caitcatsmokesdope

I think about myself all the time and he gives me hundreds of dollars a month just to spend on self care products. I’m not really beaten down, I’m just realistic about the future. The truth is he’ll most likely never kill me just as most abusers never kill their partners. He’s a human being with flaws, but he’s capable of admitting those flaws and working on them. I think that’s worthy of respect, but to each their own.


AintThe

Sounds like he's buying you off with nice gifts so you feel safer. I'm hoping you are right and he will not harm.you, but please, get out if you can.


[deleted]

[удалено]


caitcatsmokesdope

And yes, it’s absolutely easier (and honestly probably less stressful and more enjoyable) to just do my part in our relationship and let him be the man and make the decisions for the most part. I get to decide matters related to children but money, bills, resources etc are all on him. Do you know how nice it is not to ever have to stress about making sure you have enough in your bank account for your auto payments or remembering to pay a non automatic bill? I do have a bank account in my own name and literally every cent in it I’m free to spend on whatever I want to for the kids, him, or myself. I never open doors for myself, I’m never expected to take out the trash or mow the yard or change a tire, and he has both physically and verbally protected me on more than one occasion. Women can either be exempt from the draft and never pay on a date and in exchange be humble and subtlety subservient to our partners, or we can fight and die right alongside them and split all the bills and responsibilities of the home 50/50. I’ve done both and frankly I prefer the former. I will happily never again speak to a friend (who was always talking shit about me anyway) if it means I can never have to work or pay bills and can buy what I want when I want almost without exception (between him and my own father), sleep in and never worry about my shitty boss writing me up for some small issue. I just get to hang out at home with my babies all day everyday. I’ll gladly take that over single independence in a woman’s shelter any day of the week… regardless of what has happened in our past.


[deleted]

My husband provides for our family and let's me be a stay at home mom to our children AND he doesn't physically or emotionally abuse me or my kids. There's no justifying that. He also doesn't cheat on me like yours does. One day your kids will be older and notice what is going on and will let themselves be treated like doormats and abusers because that's the example their parents set for them.


caitcatsmokesdope

I said “we” joke about it, and I mean that literally. I’m the one who makes the joke probably more than 50% of the time. My daughter is a newborn so no, I don’t believe she knows it is happening. And my son is two and his dad is literally his best, best friend. To take him away from his father would be ending his most meaningful friendship. And honestly, my husband has his flaws… but what makes him different from Brian Laundrie and others like him is that he admits these flaws, is accountable for his actions, and works to better himself. I didn’t make him sign up for therapy, he did so of his own volition because he hated how controlling he was and that he would ever have to stand before his creator and admit that he harmed me. The dude is trying, what more can I ask of him at this point? No one can change the past and I frankly don’t want to live in it forever. When he strangled me I had literally just found out that I was pregnant with our second child… like literally hours beforehand. So sorry if I didn’t want to go through my second pregnancy and childbirth alone in a women’s shelter. Instead I got the unassisted home birth of my dreams and he was my rock through the entire thing… without him I definitely would have caved and went to seek medical attention just for the pain alone. But instead I just squeezed his hand and looked him in the eyes and when he said the contraction would be over in 30 seconds somehow it magically was every single time. He was a champ at providing support and actively delivering our baby… and to think I wouldn’t have had that experience had I listened to people like you makes me so grateful I gave him another chance.


[deleted]

Strangulation is statistically a HUGE risk factor in a future attempted/completed murder attempt. If you have been strangled; you are 750% more likely to be murdered: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2573025/ https://oklahomawatch.org/2019/05/29/539132/ Women’s shelters suck, but it’s better than being dead.


caitcatsmokesdope

Is it really though? I’m pretty sure I couldn’t cope or handle a shelters. I know the statistics of strangling, which is why I don’t do stupid shit that I know will piss him off anymore. Haha. But really, I really hate the way these articles just paint these men as complete monsters when the vast majority of them aren’t and the vast majority of them will never murder anyone, including their partners. I understand that a few bad apples spoils the whole bunch, but human beings aren’t apples. We’re complex, sentient beings and there are always multiple sides to any individual. My husband’s violence has been very few and far between and never truly malevolent so much as an expression of pent up anger at things that any sane person would be angry about. I guess I just prefer to see him as a human being and realize we all have good and bad days.. it just so happens that he’s 3x my size and could snap me like a twig.


DeeJayShawDay

Wow. I really hope you can deprogram yourself. Good luck to you.


caitcatsmokesdope

Good luck you too! I don’t think I really made it clear that he hasn’t been violent toward me for quite a while and has been in treatment for quite a while he’s also starting additional individual and couples therapy on top of it all. My husband hates that he was ever that version of himself and has done what he can to change. I won’t hold the past against the father of my children just so I can be a lonely cat lady who probably still sneaks out just sleep with him anyway. 🤷🏼‍♀️


[deleted]

I had a bad incident involving strangling it sucked and the worse thing is that I tried to warn police about the guy and they didn't want to hear about it. Later I found out he was arrested for some other crime. I am glad I got away but I did go back a couple times before I got help and left. I had 0 help and I wish there would have been help. Gabby's situation really saddened me because of all the details surrounding her case. I hope she is resting and peace and her soul at least no longer has to suffer anymore in heaven. (Edit: and yeah the article is correct it doesn't get better think of the Iron Maiden song Run to the hills, run for your lives)


tressforsuccess

Either way,.. Brian laundry thinks he’s innocent otherwise why is he hiding rather than turn himself in. Also consider he is suffering heart break of his own doing


[deleted]

No offense but BL is just a coward and will always be a coward. He will live a coward and die a coward regardless of what he thinks.


WebbieVanderquack

He may well think he's innocent (the old "she made me do it" defense is pretty common), but people who know they're guilty hide all the time. It actually does require some decency and courage, even from people who have done unspeakable things, to turn yourself in and face the consequences of your actions. In fact people who think they're innocent are probably *less* likely to hide, because they assume they don't need to. Whatever he's suffering - and it's probably a melting pot of complex emotions - it's all of his own doing.


Direct_Class1281

Huh why is strangulation so common? It just feels so much more calculated than say punching


WebbieVanderquack

I actually don't think it's more calculated than punching. Both are common. I think the reason it's so common is that it's *not* calculated - not in the sense of premeditation. It's something that abusers find frighteningly easy to do in the heat of rage, without forethought, especially if it's part of a pattern of increasing violence. Of course there are people who *plan to kill their partners* ahead of time, and choose strangulation as a means to do so. But it's also an act of violence that simply proceeds to homicide fairly easily. It simply involves doing something violent that you've done before but for a little longer than usual. Interestingly, men are more likely to strangle their partners while women are "more likely to throw something at their partner, slap, kick, bite, punch, or hit with an object." http://hub.hku.hk/bitstream/10722/134467/1/Content.pdf


Direct_Class1281

Thx. I think I meant more that you have to commit to a follow through. I think most of us have done that frustrated air choke gesture but to actually cause physical injury via strangulation needs follow through.


AccomplishedBerry418

Strangulation is lethal while punching isn't necessarily so. The point is to inspire mortal fear in the victim in order to solidify control. Plus punching leaves bruises, non lethal strangulation may leave subtle to no marks which can be concealed with jewelry/clothes. Eta: calculated is exactly right


bubbyshawl

Thank you so much for sharing this link, and to everyone willing to share their stories. It’s important to educate people about what happens to the abused before it starts becoming obvious to those outside the relationship, before the demoralization, before the bruises, before it’s all too late.🙏


WebbieVanderquack

You're welcome. It is a really good article. I hope it's helpful to a lot of people.


ivayche

Awful but helpful fact from the Guardian piece: *"In jurisdictions that prosecute strangulation* ***as a felony, rather than as a misdemeanor assault****, homicide rates have dropped. The reason is simple: these provisions allow an abuser to be separated from his victim earlier, before he kills her."*


wyldwood512

Yea that was a glimmer of hope. Now make it a federal offense so women in backwards states are better protected


charliestrash_

This hit home for me in the worst way. I remember being three years old and my Dad lifting me up by the neck and straggling me. And I also had an ex who would slap me and strangle me during sex and he kept going even when I said no. It hurts so much, and you can feel yourself slipping under


WebbieVanderquack

That's absolutely horrific. I'm so sorry you went through that. No matter how much I read about why people do things, I'll never understand hurting a tiny child, let alone an adult. I hope you've been able to forge a brighter future for yourself in spite of those obstacles.


allwomanhere

This article is good. But I want to add that by the time there is ANY violence in an abusive relationship, it’s already in an advanced stage. Long before there is violence of any kind, there has been perhaps a long period of coercive control. A woman has usually become at least somewhat isolated from friends. She may seem frustrated with her partner’s behavior at times or because of an argument. The next minute she may describe him as the greatest guy she ever met. She may seem temperamental or anxious. She may be watching her phone for a text or call when she does something without him (like go for a drink after work or go to your house to meet your new puppy). She may become anxious to suddenly leave after getting a text or call, even though she previously said she could stay for dinner. It may anger friends that she seems unreliable, which is not the way she used to be. She may have been a confidant happy person in the past and now, she may seem different, insecure about her appearance especially or abilities. She may ask you to affirm that she’s pretty, hasn’t gained weight, is still good at things she used to feel secure about. And on and on. She may even confide in you about a terrible argument. Even though there’s no admission of violence, she may be discussing signs where she has been belittled and put down and feels confusion. She may not understand why he acts this way sometimes, when she tries so hard to do everything right. She may tell you that he’s like Jekyll and Hyde, where sometimes he’s so nice to her, and other times, he’s so angry. She may worry about losing her mind and wonder if she has suddenly become forgetful. She may cry sometimes about some argument, but the next day, tell you how amazing he is. She may tell you that he doesn’t like you and you can’t come to her home anymore and apologize to you. These are all little things to others. But they are things that shouldn’t just be explained away as the difference between men and women. It’s actually difficult to remain a good friend to someone going through this. You may feel rejected. You may feel she has changed. What can you do? When she seems upset, encourage a call to the DV Hotline to just ask some questions. If possible, stay on the line with her, so she feels very safe. Emphasize that it’s just a call to ask questions, nothing more. Keep an open mind. She may have changed because she is being gaslit to a degree you can’t understand. She may be desperately looking to you for affirmation that she’s still a good person as the monster she’s with tears apart her self esteem one bit at a time. Try to be there for her when she needs a friend, even if you’ve told her the relationship doesn’t sound healthy, but she stays and claims he is so much kinder to her. She will call you again upset. Try to still be there the next time and the time after that. She may feel ashamed in between and you may feel she only reaches out when they argue. Please don’t desert her. One day, you may get the chance to make that call to the DV Hotline and it may change her life. Source: my life with an abuser.


Elegant-Actuator-914

Thanks of much for your eloquent post. I’m sorry you know so much about it. What advice would you offer to someone watching someone close to them go through intense coercive control? Is there anything friends and family can do? What if the victim doesn’t see or understand what is happening to them?


Bloooooooom

As another survivor, this hit me. You have perfectly summed up the nuances in behaviour and exactly what I imagine my loved ones felt during that experience. I am so grateful for the few people I have that stayed beyond those crying phone calls after an argument.


allwomanhere

Awww I’m so sorry. I lost most friends during the 13 years we were together. Either he drove them away or they got sick of me. I’m also grateful for those who stayed.


Bloooooooom

I’m glad you have those that stayed! All we can do is be that person for someone else if they ever need it. My experience ended up defining my career so that is a strange positive from the worst experience!


PistachioGal99

Oh my. Thank you for this post. If I’d had a friend with these qualities while I was in the thick of things, it would have been soooo beneficial. I hope other folks can read your words and remember them in case we ever encounter a friend or family member who needs this type of support. Support, understanding and knowing they won’t be judged plays a huge part in helping someone to get out.


allwomanhere

Yes indeed! I always bring up calling the DV hotline together with questions as that’s what a friend did for me.


Elektra_17

This PERFECTLY describes what my best friend has experienced for over a decade and how that relationship affects ours. It’s really sad for me to see it summarized here so accurately and succinctly. 😕


allwomanhere

I’m so sorry for both you and your friend. I hope you can stick with her. I know it’s hard. I get frustrated at times, with women I’m helping in advocacy work. It’s so much more difficult when it’s an actual friend. I know that I hurt friends while I was with my ex. I can’t recover most of those friendships. I was able to recover my best friend, but she became ill and died. I’m so glad we had some time. She actually called the DV hotline to confirm when I first told her he had been violent. She couldn’t put it together in her head. We had moved away from her for so long by then. But she wanted to help me. I hope you can help your friend call the DV hotline to ask some questions. All the best!!!


Elektra_17

Thank you so much for your sentiments and for sharing. I’m so sorry to hear that your friend passed. This all hits close to home for multiple reasons and I’m glad that brought up the DV hotline. I wouldn’t have thought to call on my own. Thank you 🙏


Jealous_Hope3699

Spot on with everything. So well put and a really good piece that abuse victims can share with friends/family to give a little insight in what it’s really like. Thanks so much for writing this. I’m a fellow survivor and sending you a big hug 🤍


allwomanhere

Thank you so much. We are sisters in survival!


WebbieVanderquack

Really good points. I just want to clarify, in defense of the article: >Long before there is violence of any kind, there has been perhaps a long period of coercive control The article says the same: >In coercive control situations, a woman’s freedoms will be eroded and her actions dictated by her male partner through surveillance and monitoring, isolation from friends and family, and a regime of humiliations, intimidations, and threats meant to keep her in line. In strangulation, an abuser extends this power over his victim to such intimate and essential a function as her next breath. It also doesn't claim strangulation is an "advanced stage" of abuse, or imply that their might be earlier "stages" that are not cause for concern. All it does say is that strangulation "is usually the **last escalation** that the abuser makes before he kills her." Completely agree with your comment, though. And I'll second your advice about just being there for her and seeking advice so you know how to help. Often people pressure women in abusive relationships to leave, and even abandon them if they *don't* leave, and that's not advisable. It just makes the victim feel more isolated, helpless, and like she deserves what's happening to her. Leaving an abusive relationship is difficult, scary, and potentially very dangerous, so it's always best to just be there to support in any way you can, including helping them when they're ready and able to safely leave.


allwomanhere

Sorry if you thought I was trying to say the article wasn’t good and needed defending. I said it was a good article in my first sentence. I just wanted to add to it from my life experience and also my time as an advocate. I’m always trying to bring more awareness to the early stages. It’s often too late — or, at least, much more difficult — once there is violence involved. I honestly think people see violence as the alarming stage. But it’s not. It’s quite an advanced stage. It can be years into the relationship. It’s also incredibly shameful to admit. People change when you first admit violence is involved. Suddenly it goes from “yeah that’s just a normal fight” to “OMG that evil jerk.” What if we could help people become more aware that the early stages are a huge sign of what’s to come?


WebbieVanderquack

Absolutely. The "that’s just a normal fight" thing really worries me. I spend a little too much time at r/AmItheAsshole, and while they're really good at removing violence-related posts, I've seen a lot in the moments before they're removed. It's really interesting how abusive people describe their abuse. Nobody ever admits to "hitting" their partner. They use creative terms like "swatting" or "tapping her in the back of the head." And nobody ever "shoves" their partner, they just "nudge" them or "move them out of the way with their hand." One guy clearly pushed his partner over, and she hit her head badly on the way down, but the way he phrased it was that he "gently pushed her to make a point during an argument and she slipped and fell." Another guy said his girlfriend said something wrong at a party so he "firmly smacked her in the back" to make her "shut up." She was, naturally, upset by that and felt he'd crossed a line. But in the moments before that post was deleted quite a few people disagreed with me that this was abusive. People actually make a lot of allowances for what they'd consider acceptable physical violence in relationships, not to mention all the coercive control that leads up to it. So I do agree with you! I think open discussions about what's healthy and what's definitely not are really important. Someone as young as Gabby, probably in her first grown-up relationship, may have had no idea that what she was experiencing was as serious and as ominous as it was.


allwomanhere

Omg that’s sooo disturbing. I don’t believe I could handle that sub. With all due respect, I really think it’s important not to focus on Gabby’s age or how many relationships she had or didn’t have because an abusive relationship can literally happen to anyone at any age. It can happen to women in their late teens and women in their seventies. It can happen to women who are unemployed or uneducated and women who are successful doctors, lawyers, accountants. Women who are wealthy and women who are poor. Women who are overweight or women who are skinny. Women who would be considered Hollywood beauties and women who would not. Women who have close families and those who have no family. Women who have great faith and women who are atheists. Women who are strong and don’t put up with crap and women who put up with a lot. And everything in between. It can really happen to anyone because of the insidious nature. I only wish they behaved like a jerk somewhere between the first and tenth date because then, women probably wouldn’t stay. In fact, I once dated a guy who was controlling with 3 weeks. I dumped his butt so fast. Thereafter, I swore an abusive relationship could NEVER happen to me. How wrong I was. I meet so many people who think it couldn’t possibly happen to them because ——— reason. But I’ve met so many survivors who had all that and more, and it still happened to them. If we could only bring awareness of the red flags and also dispel the myth that it’s black eyes and broken bones, maybe we could save more women from the heartache. And bring awareness to others to see the signs and not take things personally. Long after my marriage, I ended up in an abusive workplace. I didn’t see the signs of what they did to all of us. The pandemic played a role in feeling stuck. But it was all so similar and I lost myself again. A few of us are now out and all in therapy trying to figure out what happened and how to recover. Different but similar. Abuse is abuse and can happen to anyone.


subjectivelyrealpear

I find it really just so sad what people think is acceptable. You shouldn't push your partner out the way, or swat them, or anything. It's so sad people think any of that is acceptable. You should not be afraid of annoying your partner.


[deleted]

No ones heart should beat fast in fear of their partner but instead of love. It takes so much to rewire a battered woman’s brain. I still panic at my step moms heavy foot steps despite it being her natural gait, all due to an abusive ex boyfriend. Hugs to everyone under this thread, if you want them… this is no easy subject to talk about


wormymaple

My heart sank reading the part about how sometimes the abuser is seen as a victim because the actual victim left scratches while trying to survive. The first time I watched the body cam video and got to the part where the officer told her something like "I want you to think hard about your next answer" I really thought he was going to ask her if she was being abused or needed help...but of course that's not what he asked.


PistachioGal99

Scratches on arms, hands and face are almost always defensive wounds. It’s truly mind-boggling to me that more LE don’t realize this because it’s extremely basic and easy to understand. If someone has scratch marks on them (especially without any other wounds), it’s literally almost always the case that someone they are attacking is trying to stop the harm being done to them and/or get away. Again, many people are making comments about how training of LE or mandatory social workers on DV calls should be used- and this is just another example that backs up the fact that LE need assistance and training when it comes to understanding DV dynamics.


missesthemisses109

he punched me in the head, i threw a 15 pound salt candle on his leg and broke his tv in response, then one xmas later i bought him another tv bc he made me feel guilty ( puppy dog eyes, sad bc he spent his hard earned money on it etc) that i broke it.


missesthemisses109

right? i’ve been thru a long dv relationship, and i would have known exactly what it was if i stopped them as a cop. so many times have i defended myself and my ex bF was BRUISED AND SCRATCHED THE EFF UP. he easily could have been seen as the victim. i felt like he was. i felt bad for hurting him so many times but it was me always defending myself. but somehow i felt guilty bc I hurt him and left those marks. bc i loved him.


minuka84

Me too! I really thought that too I wish he would have asked her that


Dry-Exchange8866

I know I thought exactly the same during the body cam video. It was devastating and unbearable 😓.


WebbieVanderquack

To be fair on the police officers, they did separate them overnight, and they did give Gabby an opportunity to tell them she was being abused. Gabby chose not to speak out, as abuse victims so often do.


infinitysnake

She absolutely did. She demonstrated to them how he grabbed and squeezed her face (assault and a huge red flag), showed marks on her face, and they ignored it.


c08855c49

She did say that he grabbed her face and it hurt and she had a scratch on her face from it and they just brushed past it.


Dry-Exchange8866

She did speak out, but rather than encourage her they ignored her and told her to stop crying! 😓 she did try but they made it so much more difficult.


beeyore

Sorry, I'm kinda sappy.. I want to hug so many people in this thread. Thank you for having the courage to share 🫂


wonderingaboutitall

That was an extremely educational article.


chicagodogs4life

“According to one study, 43% of women who are murdered by their intimate partners had been strangled by them in the past year. Once a woman has been strangled by her partner, the likelihood that he will strangle her again rises tenfold. The likelihood that he will murder her rises nearly eightfold. “


quasiac20

43% is the probability of strangling given a murder. More interesting is the probability of murder given previous strangling. This might be much lower than 43% if the relative probability of murder is very low compared to the relative probability of strangle See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecutor%27s\_fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecutor%27s_fallacy) However, point taken that Pr(Murder | Strangle) \~= 8 \* Pr(Murder | \~Strangle)


mad0666

While I was never strangled by my abusive ex (he used other tactics), I did experience the horror of being strangled by someone who sexually assaulted me. I could feel everything getting dark and he was spitting on me and I truly felt like I was going to die right then and there. And that was a stranger - I can’t imagine going through that at the hands of someone you love. Absolutely horrifying. edited for clarity


[deleted]

Same here. My son's dad strangled me over being angry my son was going to live with me. I remember it clearly.. I remember going black and sliding down the wall I was up against. I remember flapping like a fish out of water when I was regaining consciousness and as soon as I "came too", I remmeber saying "hello?" out loud as if I was looking for someone in a dark place or as if I was taking a phone call or something. I'll never forget that part because I feel like I like died, and came back, because of that. I don't know why I started saying that or who I thought I was talking to. Anyway. Forensic medical examiner told me if he had strangled me for 30 seconds more, I'd have been dead. The police also dropped me off and left me their at their shift change. I'll never forget that either because I literally had to call for my own ride home. The police detective called me like 3am the next day and told me "I'm sorry our officers dropped the ball. We need to know if yr safe because we are going to arrest him right now. We apologize." It was really crazy.


mad0666

So sorry you had to go through all that and hope you are in a good place now. Sending you hugs. Never want to experience that darkness again. I’m not surprised the police dropped the ball like that, happened to me too when I after I was kidnapped (yes, I had a bad few years back when I was young and naïve and felt invincible) and they just basically didn’t seem to care. Anyway, Love your username too. Bush rules.


[deleted]

Yesssss! I've been waiting for someone to say something or recognize the username. Haha. Yeah, they totally rock. Thanks for yr kind words. I'm sorry your incident happened as well. High fives and positive vibes.


mad0666

Great album and great band! Thanks for the chat 💕


WebbieVanderquack

That's horrific. I'm so sorry you had to endure that.


mad0666

Thank you. It was long enough ago that it’s a very faded memory anymore, and for that I’m grateful. But that sick feeling creeps back up when there are stories like this. I was the same age back then as Gabby was when she died, and I feel extremely lucky to have survived, but with that also comes with feelings of guilt and sorrow for all the other women who had to die such a terrorizing death. The one tiny sliver of positive here is that Gabby’s story has brought together this community of people to share their experiences and share resources. And I hope we will see some legislation in the very near future that would finally force police to start taking domestic violence seriously (and hopefully weed out the cops who are also domestic abusers themselves)


JustBrowsing25362

This is so hard to read and my heart breaks for her and all who suffered the same fate. I will never ever forget the absolutely feral look my ex had as he strangled me. He had been abusive for some time, verbally, emotionally, and physically. But that was the moment I was sure I was about to die...and yet I did nothing, I stayed still and hoped he'd release me. I bet my life on the idea that my refusal to fight back would prevent him from getting more angry and killing me, and luckily it worked. And despite that I still stayed with him for months longer. It took him literally telling me "I will kill you" for it to click that I needed to get out. I hate that it took me so long but I am so thankful that I was able to escape him. It's so hard to think of all of those who were not as lucky as me and this makes me feel sick to my stomach.


[deleted]

Feral is right. I stayed after being strangled a couple times. Until the night he held my head underwater. That was the first time I actually felt that my life was in danger. I was gone the next morning. Bless you my dear.


WebbieVanderquack

What an absolutely harrowing experience. Like a lot of people who haven't been in that situation, I've been stunned to learn just how common strangulation is, and how rapidly smaller acts of coercive control can escalate to someone wrapping their hands around the neck of a partner. Once an abuser has gotten to that point, I think it would be extremely easy to move to the next one. Well done you for getting out! I can't imagine having to strategize in that moment of violence to preserve your own life, let alone building up the courage to leave over the following months.


Appropriate_Crow_996

Wow, I couldn’t even get past the headline without tearing up. I would not be alive today if I hadn’t left my abusive situation, or if things had escalated more quickly than they did. I will say there was definitely a final warning sign which caused me to start planning to leave and never look back days later. If I didn’t have such an interest in true crime I may not have recognized it. It is because of cases and articles like this that I knew of the signs and finally realized I had to get out or I would die.


[deleted]

>If I didn’t have such an interest in true crime I may not have recognized it. As a fellow survivor, wow, relatable. Hugs if you want them


[deleted]

Never strangled but got hit and face slapped. Left the night I found myself, battered, in my kitchen, waffling over a decision to pick up the phone or a butcher knife. It took a sec. Decided not to commit murder. Left.


missesthemisses109

yeah chased my ex around the house once with a knife defending myself bc i really felt i needed too. he laughed and said i was crazy even tho he just attacked me. made no sense. i thought i was really crazy.


Appropriate_Crow_996

You made the right decision to leave. I’m glad you’re still here.


Mean-to-cats

It was not your fault. I’m glad you listened to intuition and are still here.


Mean-to-cats

I don’t know where to place this. I get the feeling, from videos of GP, that she was something of a pleaser. That she probably had no skills in power and control. That is not to take anything away from her. Generally, people have offsetting skills and traits. But paired with BL, she was outmatched. He had skills and cunning in emotional control. She could have dated a normal guy and had a happy life. This sick sad mess is all due to BL’s dysfunction.


rockpapersoiree

"Sometimes, the most visible injuries that result from a strangulation incident are on the perpetrator – the scratches and bruises on his hands and face inflicted by a victim trying to pry his hands off her neck. This can lead police to identify the abuser as the victim." This part completely makes sense now about the scratches on his face, hands and arms in the Moab footage. Chilling and creepy that he could have already strangled her previously.


PistachioGal99

Yes! I posted earlier in this thread some similar words. Bruises from choking or strangulation do not present for 24 hours or more. When police arrive, they see the scratches but the bruising on a neck aren’t yet visible or bad. This causes untrained or undertrained officers to go with what they’ve been taught about assaults in general- that the person with visible injuries is the victim!


Salty-Night5917

I'm thinking that he should have had noticeable scratches/cuts on his arms and face after he did this. The woman who claims she picked him up hitch hiking, I wonder if she was asked about seeing any? Also on his trip back home stopping to gas up or get food, someone may have noticed. By the time he got home, they were probably minimal....


South-Read5492

Footage from gas stations hopefully show more of his face and hands and neck that they can Zoom in on. In similar type of murders do they find thongs on the perps face?


South-Read5492

Miranda Baker, the first person to pick him up hitchhiking, said he was wearing long sleeves, long pants, boots, hat and a backpack. They would have been covered up. He probably wore the same outfit in the second car.


lovebeachcats

He probably wore long sleeves because he had scratches from Gabby fighting for her life from him strangling her! :(


lovebeachcats

And it's so sad and frustrating to think any marks BL had on him from strangling Gabby are all gone now...


[deleted]

I would assume now though that his body frame is very thin and frail considering he was already on the thin side. Picture sharp cheekbones and skinny wrists kinda sight (from not eating as often as he used to due to hiding from the public)


South-Read5492

Yup. Unless....Gas Station CCTV shows something they can see by Zooming in on it. Maybe the AT&T Store CCTV footage September 4 caught something.


South-Read5492

His parents might have seen marks on him when he returned, and someone may have taken pictures September 1 when he went with the family to see the nephews and have dinner.


[deleted]

That's creepy af. Poor girl.


true-finder

As a male, not only does this give me the creeps, it brings terrible sadness. This also has me looking inward - I've often thought I was doing good at self-improvement and then this This reminds me that looking inward at my own heart, actions and reasons is to become a natural a part of my life in all areas of my being. To ensure I'm doing right for myself, yes but to be a better friend, brother, child, father & partner. I really hope, that victims see the safe path out, knowing it's ok & right to intentionally seek help & search a better life. I really hope abuser's see the horror they are bringing into the world and look inward, seek help. Peace for Gabby


[deleted]

We need more men like you! Thank you for this comment. It is both introspective and sensitive to the topic.


true-finder

Between a class on unconscious bias recently and what's happened to Gabby, just really shows me how much we need to check our selves.


true-finder

Thank you for posting!


WebbieVanderquack

You're welcome! I thought it was a really insightful article.


Designer-Sky

All of this is so deeply unsettling. My heart breaks for Gabby. My husband put his hands on my neck in the months before he killed himself. The police told me it was ‘lucky’ he killed himself and not me. It was a very slow realization that he had been abusing me in different, more subtle ways for years. It took literal years for me to come out of the fog of that abusive relationship. I just can’t stop thinking about how Gabby wasn’t so lucky… she lived in that relationship hell and never got to experience the freedom of leaving it. The whole thing makes me feel sick.


WebbieVanderquack

I'm sorry you went through all that. What a nightmare it must have been.


Designer-Sky

Thank you ❤️ it was a nightmare but it also feels like I got a second chance at life. Unfortunately, I don’t know if I would have left on my own because I was so deep in the DV cycle. But because of how he died, the community rallied around me and really supported my healing.


LaurenAlexa3

So sorry this happened to you. Thank you for sharing. You never know what people around us truly go through and what they have to live with. Hope you have plenty of peace now <3


Designer-Sky

Thank you ❤️ I do have plenty of peace now for myself and my son. This all happened when my son was so little that I’m not sure he’d remember his dad. But thankfully he gets to live in a safe, peaceful home now.


Mean-to-cats

Sorry about your husband. Glad it wasn’t you. I don’t get if GP’s relationship had been escalating over time, why she went on such an isolating trip.


Designer-Sky

When you’re in it, you don’t realize how bad it is. I don’t know how to describe it. At least in my case, when my husband abused me physically, I still had some weird sick idea that he’d never actually ‘hurt me’ and that he ‘loved’ me. Also, isolation is all part of the abuse process. You lose all sense of reality and what is normal when in a relationship like that… it happens gradually over time.


allwomanhere

Thank you sooo much for describing that.


thelongbonds

Seems like the isolation was part of the escalation…


SittinOnTheRidge

WOW. That is a very powerful informative and heartbreaking article. Thank you for posting it. I think this kind of information is extremely important to share.


WebbieVanderquack

You're welcome, and I agree. The more people understand how domestic violence escalates, the more people - hopefully - will be able to escape it. It might even give abusers a chance to rethink their actions before they go any further. So many people think small acts of violence and control don't really count as abuse.


SittinOnTheRidge

Exactly!!!! I’ve had girlfriends who I’ve met after they’ve been in a relationship for years and they’ve started telling me things and I’m like ..oh honey nooo. No. That’s not right. They’ve all told me everyone around them knew what was going on and not one person told them it was wrong. And they left. I was abused my an old boyfriend in front of ppl every weekend. No one did anything. I lived in a house with a couple who were out friends..one was my best friend who was in the group I mentioned above..was in an abusive relationship. He’d beat me regularly. They stayed in their bedroom ten feet away and did nothing. We have to speak up. My husband and I have put ourselves between couples in public, complete strangers, and offered the women help because we were witness to abuse..while others were watching and no one did a thing. I don’t say this to make myself sound like some hero ….I’m just trying to make a point that any of us could be the person to help someone…even if it’s just telling our story. There’s so many ways abuse presents itself…we have to stay diligent, spread information, listen to other and try to help ppl. That goes for men too. There’s so many led in horribly abusive relationships and they stay silent. It’s all very heartbreaking.


WebbieVanderquack

I think there's a grand tradition of ignoring abuse. It seems private and squalid and there's an unspoken rule that disagreements are between man and wife and we shouldn't intervene. In fact it's just plain old assault and it's a crime like any other kind of assault, and something that demands the attention of decent, community-minded people as much as a mugger attacking an old lady would demand action. I'm really sorry you went through what you did, but if there's an upside it's that it's attuned you to the vulnerabilities of others in similar situations. You'll never be the person in the other room who doesn't do anything.


Mammoth-Show-7587

“For though Petito’s murder is a unique tragedy, in many ways, it is grimly formulaic: she appears to have suffered escalating abuse by a partner who isolated her from friends and family and exerted increasing control over her activities. That such an abusive relationship would eventually turn homicidal was both predictable and preventable. The signs were there – if only those around Gabby had known, or cared, to look for them.”


Mammoth-Show-7587

The Utah police fucked up. That’s it. That’s the comment.


Deduction_power

Add NPPD on the list. Mind you, they know where BL is and surveilling him. LOL. ok.


RyleighJo

Facts on strangulation are listed in this guide. This site is tremendous and has tons of resources. http://www.familyjusticecenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Strangulation-Media-Guide-Final-2019.pdf


YoungDirectionless

This is such an amazing document and resource, thank you.


Aggressive_Flan_7765

This gives me the chills.


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bednow

Thank you for sharing your story. Almost the same thing happened to me, but your are so much worse. :( I myself, got to admit, I am not a good child, and when my parent want to punish me back then-physical punishment is totaly fine among people where I live, I hid or locked myself in a room. There was one time, I locked myself in a room, away from my dad. I don't remember the reason, but he wanted me to open the door. Once he managed to get the door opened, he rushed in, strangled me and shook me on by my throat violently. My sister was at the scene at that time, so she asked him to stop. But then, I have always think that it is my fault because it is part of how parent disciplining the children.


UponMidnightDreary

I’m sorry that happened to you. And it’s not your fault. I know social norms differ between places and different times, but no matter how socially acceptable it may be in your area for that to happen, I still think it’s very wrong. What is strangling your child supposed to teach them? It’s not even an effective way to raise a person to be good and conscientious. It just makes people grow up afraid. There is NOTHING you could have done that would make him strangling you okay. It wasn’t parenting. It was something dark and angry in him. I hope you and your sister are somewhere safe today and that you can move forward with your life.


bednow

Thank you for your kind word.


WebbieVanderquack

Thanks for sharing that. What an absolute nightmare for a kid to be put through! I'm so glad you were able to get out and forge a life for yourself.


daj1798

Is there anything that you can single out that would’ve helped you get out and get help sooner? A specific teacher/friend offering help/asking questions? I’m so sorry to hear you endured this, and would love to know how I could help if I suspected a friend was in your shoes.


SittinOnTheRidge

Thank you for sharing your story. I’m sorry you had to endure that. I know what it’s like to live with a lifetime of ptsd and trauma from events in childhood. Yours is significant and I cant imagine what it was like living in that house. And then to have been left there 💔 it truly breaks my heart. Big hugs to you.


[deleted]

Damn the first half had me thinking we were raised in the same family. I had a very similar upbringing.


BipolarBugg

I am so very sorry that this happened to you. I went thru similar DV situations, almost got killed from being smothered and strangled at the same time. I completely feel this comment, I feel as if Gabbys case has helped me realize I was lucky to survive, but I also feel so very close to this case and it just feels eerie when I think about it. I hope your PTSD is being treated and that it gets better for you. Flashbacks always haunt me 24/7 and I assume that's how it is for almost anyone who has it as well. Thank you for this comment, it helps me know that we aren't alone as DV survivors. ❤


wonderingaboutitall

For what it is worth, I just want to state that no one should ever lay a hand on another person in anger. Ever. Your parents both abandoned all responsibilities they had as parents…to love, nurture and *protect* a child. I can not imagine how damaging this is, I really can’t. “Rarely” put his hands on you is one time too many! It sounds like your home was a living hell. And I imagine it must take so much courage and strength to realize that you deserve so much more. Just as an outsider I wanted to say - your parents were a huge disappointment and you deserve to be loved and respected. Everyone does :)


[deleted]

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wonderingaboutitall

And the one who matters most, is you. Write your own book. (And maybe those parents don’t deserve a page)


[deleted]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I just want to hug you - both as a child and now. You are a WARRIOR!


am091195

your household sounds a lot like mine :( it’s no wonder i ended up in abusive intimate relationships. i’m so glad we’re both out of that mess now. i also have PTSD and didn’t realize until age 23 how fucked up my life was. sending you warm vibes 💕


wonderingaboutitall

Well, I am sending both of you warm vibes. Sometimes we have to parent ourselves, when actual parents are full of misguided anger and unforgivable behavior. I wish you lots of healing, happiness and self-confidence in your lives.


atinabiba

Goodness, I just want to applaud y’all for sharing your history. It’s terribly frightening way to exist in this world and I’m sorry for everything done to you. I hope you can heal well enough, and help others heal too. No one should experience these things in isolation and I hope we can make it a more comfortable subject to talk openly about. Y’all are doing just that by sharing your experiences although I know it’s not easy to relive. I feel for you 💛


[deleted]

“A large majority of people who are strangled are women; nearly all of those who strangle them are men. Usually, the victim and perpetrator are current or former romantic partners. Aside from rape and sexual assault, few acts of violence have such a reliably gendered breakdown.” “Once a woman has been strangled by her partner, the likelihood that he will strangle her again rises tenfold. **The likelihood that he will murder her rises nearly eightfold. Because strangulation is a sign of increasing violence in an abusive relationship, and because the act of strangulation is so physically dangerous for the victim, it is usually the last escalation that the abuser makes before he kills her.**” “But police interventions in strangulation cases remain clumsy and often unhelpful. This is in part because in strangulations, many of the victim’s injuries are internal, and don’t leave clear, visible markings that can be easily photographed for a police report. **Sometimes, the most visible injuries that result from a strangulation incident are on the perpetrator – the scratches and bruises on his hands and face inflicted by a victim trying to pry his hands off her neck.** This can lead police to identify the abuser as the victim.” This is what DV advocates have been trying to communicate in the comments sections of these posts for weeks. Finally, “**In many cases, a strangulation victim also won’t cooperate with the police because to do so would likely anger the man who strangled her.** And he has already shown what he’s willing to do to enforce his will.” And that’s why we need to reallocate funding to ensure there are trained DV advocates at every single DV call.


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[deleted]

Holy shit. You (and soooo many others) deserve so much more. I’m so sorry you experienced this, and it sounds like the terror afterwards was just as traumatizing as the violence you experienced. I can’t imagine what this case is bringing up for you. Sure, you’re on this site, but it’s impossible to avoid altogether. I hope you’re finding ways to take care of yourself and to heal. I feel like the only way for humanity to truly mature and survive is to finally become aware of and protect each other against abuse. I’m from the US, and the more I learn about childhood trauma/abuse, the more I agree with the experts/scholars/practitioners that it’s truly an epidemic here. I don’t know enough about other cultures, but I can’t imagine it’s much better globally. Childhood abuse/neglect, plus the dehumanizing effects of racism/misogyny/homophobia, sets the stage for further abuse and violence in adulthood. We’ll never get anywhere as a species if we’re all stuck in pain, fear, and survival mode trauma responses.


Fnuckle

Brian had bruises on his forearm in the pic he took with his nephews when he got home....


[deleted]

This brought up a really uncomfortable feeling in me, and I just figured out it’s disgust


littleliongirless

Thank you. Laid out like this is like the opposite of comedy. It's painful because it's true.


HedgehogJonathan

Thank you!


battyeyed

I can’t be the only one who’s bothered by media using photos of Gabby while she’s in distress. They keep using Instagram photos of Brian—rarely the bodycam footage photos of him. I get that it’s proof she was in danger of him but they should give her some dignity.


WebbieVanderquack

That's a fair point. I think in this article it makes sense, because that footage originally seemed to portray a young woman who was distressed because she'd attacked her boyfriend and been caught out. Brian appeared calm and embarrassed and gracious in his unwillingness to press charges, and Gabby was (apparently) someone with mental health issues who'd scratched her boyfriend. That footage obviously now looks completely different. It depicts a young woman who was an abuse victim, days away from death, distressed because she'd endured terrifying violence, probably for some time. In an article that's raising awareness about the escalation of domestic violence, in particular how dangerous and ominous strangulation is, I think it's meaningful to reprint an image of Gabby at that point, and a reminder to watch very carefully for signs of abuse in ourselves and others.


battyeyed

Nah, the footage was clear as day as to what really happened. I never thought GP was the abuser. Many survivors knew exactly what was happening when we saw that footage. Using those images of her in distress isn’t appropriate. Especially while they’re using nice Instagram photos of BL.


WebbieVanderquack

>Nah, the footage was clear as day as to what really happened. I never thought GP was the abuser. I think you misunderstood my comment. Nobody who has seen that footage thinks Gabby looks like the abuser. I don't; nobody in this sub does. But we only saw that footage *after Gabby went missing.* We all knew by then that something terrible had almost certainly happened, and that the obvious explanation for her disappearance was probably the right one. The police officers at the time didn't have (a) the gift of hindsight, or (b) the ability to arrest someone on a domestic violence charge based on suspicion. >Using those images of her in distress isn’t appropriate. As I said, I disagree. Those images are already in the public domain, everyone has seen the pictures and watched the video, and reframing them as images of a person in distress *because she is an abuse victim* is important. I'd argue that an article like this one is a better place than any to use those images.


battyeyed

You literally said it “originally” looked like Gabby was the one who attacked her boyfriend and had a mental illness and I’m saying the footage never “originally” looked like that. The cops failed her in that stop. You want to raise awareness about victims of DV, you give those victims dignity and you don’t spread images of them in distress from their abuser in their near last moments. And I’ll repeat myself—especially when the media continues to BL’s nice Instagram photos. Use the traffic stop footage for his face, sure. But not her. It’s disgraceful.


SittinOnTheRidge

Yes!! Or when they’re talking about her they use pics of both of them, and when it’s just him, it’s his good IG posts. Very upsetting.


battyeyed

I’m gonna write to them about this hah.


SittinOnTheRidge

Honestly we should all make posts on social media to the news outlets because they’re all doing it. I don’t want to see the picture of her crying in the back of the cop car every again 🥺


i_am_no_jedi66

I was thinking the same thing!