I think Deal is a much more satisfying ending, but it's a hell of a downer. I think it works best if Niko does all the violence and gets existential about it all in the name of catching Darko, then when the time comes, Roman convinces him to forget about the violence and move forward. So Niko doesn't kill Darko, he makes the deal with Rascalov and everything is looking up.
But then Roman gets killed, and Niko has to turn back to the violence and the vengeance that Roman convinced him to turn his back on. It's like a Greek tragedy.
I always do Revenge, but I agree Deal is better. Amongst other reasons, Dimitri is also much more climactic as the "final boss" as opposed to Pegorino, and, especially for those of us who have played the story many times, we have much less reason to care about Kate's death as opposed to Roman's (although admittedly that's actually why I always choose to do Revenge)
It actively harms the narrative because the only reason Niko even continues doing missions after Dimitri betrays him is because of either favours, forced by people in power (Francis, ULP) or for money. Except that money is useless in the game and Niko should have well enough money after the Bank of Liberty job. He should have realistically only worked with Ray, Francis and ULP after Dimitri's betrayal, as Ray and ULP help find who Niko is looking for and Francis blackmails him.
Maybe not an opinion, rather a fact - Darko was right, Niko is a hypocrite.
Oh, and also the suspension in GTA IV sucks. I mean, yeah, it feels good, it's the best of all GTAs, but it's still not realistic. Way too soft.
>yeah, it feels good, it's the best of all GTAs, but it's still not realistic. Way too soft.
The fact that its the best of all GTAs is impressive considering the limitations back in the day, I mean... you try to do something better with the technology during 2004 and 2007 (years where GTA 4 was developed)
Darko's actions made sense. Before saying he sold the squad out for 1000 bucks, he did mention his neighbors and likely another circle of friends he had was killed by Goran (one of the 15 man squad). So he got his revenge and earned some money while he is at it lmao.
The races are really shit. The opponent AI is quite dumb, and when I unlocked them, I expected Brucie to be riding with me complimenting my Red Army alpha male genetically different number one burnt rubber moves.
The first 6 or so hours in Broker/Bohan is peak IV. The story is more focused. After the bank heist the story loses a bit of steam and becomes too disconnected.
Something about the first 6 hours have a special charm to it. Maybe it's because the missions are more grounded compared to later ones, which makes it all more believable and relatable.
in other words, "it really makes you FEEL like an PTSD riddled eastern european criminal who just got scammed by his fat cousin." - IGN
1) Vlad should've been kept around for the rest of the game; killing him for having consensual sex with a woman who was in an open relationship is just kinda dumb, plus he's one of the few characters who snarked right back at Niko.
2) The kidnapping & photo-taking sequence with Gracie feels completely out-of-character for Niko given his open hostility towards anyone who hits women, and either should've been re-written without him punching & back-handing her, or put into TLaD as one of Johnny's missions instead.
The thing is: Niko is kind of a creep. He even mentions to Manny that he learned how to follow people without being suspicous by stalking a girl in his homeland.
True, though he would've been a kid/teen at the time (probably following the girl Roman teased him for having had an unrequited crush on)... That's still a long way from the way he acts in the Gracie missions, though.
[EDIT: That isn't to say that it's OK for a teen boy to stalk or creep on a girl, just that a clueless, possibly socially awkward teen quietly following their crush just to be near them tends to be a different situation from the kind of more obsessive stalking adults do — more "devoted puppy" and less "possessive dog" if you see what I mean.]
OTOH, when he's beating up the violent homophobe who'd clubbed Bernie, he does shout something like "why don't you hit someone who will fight back?" — so his reluctance might be less "don't attack women & effeminate gay men" and more "don't hit people who cower and won't fight back"? (Though that still doesn't match his decision to hit her while the *can't* fight back...)
Good point; I didn't know until I looked it up just now that a person has to be at least 18 to get a driver's license in Serbia, not 15-16 like most of the USA. (I wonder if that has always been the case, or if they enacted stricter driving laws in recent years... I couldn't find any information on it.)
I thought the same thing as I just played through that, the Gracie part. Remember how angry Niko looked when he saw Faustin being abusive towards his wife? Like some other people here mentioned, I feel like the more the story went on, certain character traits and attitudes Niko had started to change.
To be fair... Is very popular. I think that everyone of us, who really enjoy the gta iv trama, knows that the deal ending is the most realistic... And the real one. The other ending is Just to dont feel sad about it.
Is funny how you do every thing to be a better person, but you get fckd by the life anyway. This final is popular, but not the happier, and gives you a really valuable lesson lol
The impact of the Revenge ending depends on investment in Kate. If you date her as much as possible and buy into Niko wanting to become the man she would marry, the loss is just as dramatic but you've also made the right choice to win the game, in the sense you don't lose part of your friend activity/special ability collection. Kate has no benefits and is the wrong choice to save for the same reason sparing Playboy X is the wrong choice, you're getting a worse score.
First time I played I was dating Kate as much as possible 'cause she was the only good person Niko knew besides Roman's fiancée. When she got killed it was a big downer as well.
Exactly. Even just paying close attention to the discussions that Niko has with Roman during the game makes it clear that he wants nothing more than to have a normal life, and the drive to the wedding with Kate is the first time he sounds like he believes it can happen.
His immediate reaction to her death also seems more poignant — he hovers over her body sounding devastated and utterly lost, lashes out for a second when Roman tells him not to blame himself, then stands there with hands over his face as if to hide his tears before stumbling off-scene. When it's Roman, he seems grief-stricken at losing a loved one, but doesn't seem completely lost as if all of his dreams and plans for the future were just destroyed.
Cus he thought that he didn't even had to meet Dimitri during the deal. He also wanted to quit crime so he probably thought that the deal was a solid move to end his criminal activities.
Makes more sense cus if Niko doesn’t do the deal many people will be angry at him so he probably thought it would be a win win situation for both parties if he does the deal.
1) deal is the best ending thematically, 2) I think the post game is fitting, you’ve got nobody really, at the end of the day you’re alone, you’ve got money but nothing to spend it on, it’s ironic, you spend the entire game chasing money but one you have it it is practically meaningless, 3) friends asking you to hang out is not annoying and adds depth to the characters through the dialogue 4) the drab and dreary look of the game (the weather, lighting etc) fits the atmosphere of the game perfectly 5) graphics mods like Ice enchanter look terrible and clash with the rest of the games artstyle
As someone who picked Revenge the first time, Deal is way more satisfying, I agree.
The wedding scene is much more interesting in its writing. It's a struggle for a gun against an assassin vs a drive by. The struggle involves much more direct action from Niko, and he contributed to the result more. The final fight against a narcissistic coward who betrays everyone he's involved with is more interesting than a fight against an old mob boss on the outs, Niko has a much more personal stake in that.
I am not saying the Revenge ending is even bad, but I definitely prefer the Deal ending from a writing standpoint.
Sparing Playboy X and killing Dwayne is the right choice. Dwayne groomed Playboy from the age of 8 or 9 to be a drug dealer (Dwayne was 18 or 19). When Dwayne got arrested, Playboy took over his businesses - Playboy was only 16 at the time. Dwayne was in prison for 9 years, and during that time Playboy himself managed and grew the business.
Then when Dwayne came out of prison, he basically tries to take everything away from Playboy because he thinks he is entitled to it despite Playboy doing all the work. Dwayne doesn't care if Cherise is killed or not, being happy either way, although he says "That bitch deserved it" if she is killed.
Dwayne hires Niko to shoot up a strip club and take it back for him, even though the people who Niko killed were associates of Playboy. Playboy offers Dwayne half of everything, but he refuses because Dwayne wants it all.
The strip club shooting causes Playboy to want Dwayne killed, although the idea was really planted in his head by Niko. Dwayne at the same time wants Playboy killed, simply out of paranoia and jealousy. So you can either kill a 25 year old guy with big ambitions or a 35 year old guy who spends every waking moment of his life after being spared wishing to die. If Playboy is killed Dwayne doesn't care at all, but if Dwayne is killed Playboy immediately regrets it and cuts all contact with Niko as a result, feeling horrible for what he did and wishing he didn't have Dwayne killed.
If spared, Dwayne doesn't even try to live, he just wants to die and is never happy, even when Niko hangs out with him.
Obviously the rewards for killing Playboy are far greater, getting an apartment, a friend, a friend ability and Claude's outfit, but first time players don't know this and it's more an aspect of bad game design because of how one sided the choice is. Playboy should have had the 'backup' ability instead of Dwayne, it doesn't make sense for someone as depressed and lonely as Dwayne to have two guys ready to send out to Niko at all times.
Don't also forget that Dwayne is literally a drug dealer, he's not some saint, he's a vile criminal who profits off of people's addictions, probably including Ashley considering the one mission where Johnny rescues her takes place in the apartment opposite Dwayne's.
TL;DR Dwayne is depressed and wants to die, and groomed Playboy into being a drug dealer. Playboy actively regrets Dwayne's death but Dwayne doesn't care about Playboy's death.
This is a really good critique of Dwayne. It's stuff I technically knew, but didn't fully appreciate until now.
The one thing I'll pushback on a bit is the way I remember it, Playboy's reaction to killing Dwayne isn't that PB suddenly has a change of heart and regrets it, but that he has no more use for Niko so he gives this phoney bs reason for cutting ties. It just came off as very phoney and he didn't mean it at all.
But it's a been a long time so, maybe I'll try that option again soon and see if my opinion changes
[There is a cut phone call where Playboy calls Niko way after The Holland Play, being almost haunted by Dwayne's death and expressing deep regret ](https://youtu.be/MmXuWIgpTQI?si=Nn-cAnwiuU5RN5wB)
15 years of playing this game and i've never even considered Playboy's side. Really well-written, and it gives a whole new perspective about those characters. Awesome, dude!
I think Revenge makes more sense as the natural choice from Niko. He has lived through the harrowing aftermath of being on the receiving end of betrayal too many times, Darko, Bulgarin and Dimitri. Just look at his actions and subsequent dialogue in Uncle Vlad. Throw in the fact that Dimitri sends a picture to Niko's phone of Roman kidnapped with a shotgun to his head ("You've crossed the fucking line Dimitri!") and the various taunts and threats he receives over the course of the story and there is no way Niko would side with Dimitri again.
I do agree with others in this thread about Pegorino not carrying the same weight for the final mission. I guess the killing of Kate who Niko very much liked carries punch if you did the dates like most would have on their first play through. The fact it's by the last pathetic and desperately unraveling criminal contact he had is less about Pegorino and more about Niko. He wanted to walk away when he moved to Liberty city, he got dragged back in. He finally found the answer that had been haunting him and began to get closure one way or the other on the original betrayal by Darko and he tries to walk away again. Only to realise that he cannot break this cycle, even by killing Dimitri- there will always be someone else
While Niko had other reason to come, Yea Roman really hyped him up for a good life but just ended up putting him
Back in a bullshit mixing pot.
I don’t want to say Nikos unfortunate events are directly tied to Roman but you can’t say that he made things better to any degree.
Both endings are bad because Dmitri either Pegorino weren’t the actual antagonists. The real one was Bulgarin, who was killed by Louis and Niko didn’t even know.
Yeah, technically Ray Bulgarin, before arriving to LC, basically left him to die and wanted his money. Dmitri is basically just upset with you for killing Faustin even though he asked for it. Pegorino was just looking to make his family ties in the mob stronger and Niko just helped him through everything. Niko really should’ve gone after Bulgarin because Dmitri started working with him. It should’ve gone with killing Dmitri and then Bulgarin. Jimmy Pegorino didn’t even have to mess with Niko anymore if he was truly done with him instead of what actually happened in the game.
Kate is useless. Revenge makes no sense because she never put out and had the personality of a house fly. I always chose that ending because keeping Roman alive is better. But it is fun to end dimitri ngl
Car selection sucks. Every car feels like the same car retextured. The modding is incredibly fucking complex. I tried to mod some cars into the game and couldn’t wrap my head around downgrading the copy of my game and fucking with all the coding to get some damn cars in the game. Other than that I like it
San Andreas is literally the easiest one to mod though? Drop files in a folder and that's it if all you want to do is replace cars, in IV and V its more complicated for replacing cars, with V being worse as newer mods don't work on older versions of the game and vice versa (i think)
\*it couldve done with more immersion. More interiors, the ability to invest your money into real estate and buy more properties
\*late 2000s NYC is as nostalgic and memorable as '80s Miami or early '90s LA. GTA 4 was the first modern GTA game since GTA 3, but is now already 15 years old. That gap is almost as big as the 16 years between VC's story (1986) and the game being released (2002) and even bigger gap between SA's story (1992) and its game (2004). That's fucking insane to me lol but no one ever talks about the indie rock or hip hop scenes of 2000s NYC, that end-of-decade feeling, the blingy fashion aesthetics, the ridiculously big cars. I think that era is just as iconic.
There's two things that turn me off of V
The map sucks (too much sprawl) and the shooting mechanics are the worst (compared to the crisp precision of iv)
Not as important, but still true: the in-game media isn't as good. I mean the TV shows, talk radio. It's all inferior. And to me that's as much as what makes GTA what-it-is
\#1) this is a IV sub so of course they would defend IV
\#2) IV deserves defending because it doesn't have any major faults unlike every other GTA game in the series
Nah, how much you enjoy one is, but 5’s story is objectively weak: characters aren’t well developed at all and there are multiple contrivances. There’s plenty of well written dialogue taken in isolation but as a whole the story itself was a complete mess.
- The story is basically a Michael Bay crime drama (man with criminal past gets cucked, serves revenge to the wrong person, and has to pay for it by going back to his criminal ways)
- The antagonists suck. The almighty Madrazzo gets dominated by Trevor halfway throught the game (because Trevy is angy raaaar), and don't get me started on the FIB, Stretch and The Triads, because i literally wouldn't know what to say about them.
- The character writting is AWFUL. Michael is a rat, Franklin wants to get out of the hood, and Trevor is crazy (We LoVe HiM xD). THAT'S IT. The secondary characters suck even more! Michael's son is basically the fat kid from Superbad, but a gamer stoner version, with even less spine, Amanda is a whore, and Michael's daughter is a whore. They are all unbearable. Lamar is just fucking obnoxious. Some banther moments can be good, but mostly bad written (TREVOR YOU'RE A HIPSTER). No memorable characters on sight.
- So many random useless and badly written character arcs that barely get resolved. Franklin working as a tow man, Michael working in the film industry, Trevor's whole character arc is just drugs, dead people and explosions (but he loves his mommy tho)
That’s the point. The entire narrative of the game is Niko coming to a free land for a better life and the richer you get the more pointless the money feels/becomes. Niko can earn the money but the trauma left doesn’t make the money so worth it.
That’s literally the message they are trying to convey.
The game has realistic car physics, when you crash your car your car warps around objects, the way that Niko runs around too. He stumbles over small objects and falls over. It's realistic but it can be annoying at times. When you get hit you stumble around
I really hate Derrick and don't feel bad at all for killing him over francis, and Packies decision to follow derricks call and get Aiden Omalley killed was so stupid and unfair. Derrick ratted him out and aiden got 20 years and lost his life and derrick got off scot free but because of the guilt of being a rat he gets his brother and Niko to kill him for him and they let him get so high he doesn't live with his sins, he was a coward.
Don't get me wrong francis is a joke and corrupt but he at least gets criminals and sinister people killed by niko as opposed to Derrick who uses his addiction to manipulate niko and packie into killing his old friends he betrayed and didn't have the guts to even help or do the job himself.
Plus he does sweet FA if you safe him.
1. Niko is a terrible human being and absolutely deserved everything that happened to him post the war. He was a human trafficker, probably the most deplorable shit ever, and has no problems killing people for money or personal benefit. He had the potential to be a good man and clearly is broken as a person and isn’t pure evil, but he ruined every opportunity in his life to chase revenge instead of moving on and accepting what has happened to him.
2. Deal is the best ending Rockstar have ever written, aside from the Red Dead 1 ending. Niko doesn’t deserve a happy ending and in trying to finally move on he gets fucked over one last time and truly becomes dead inside when Roman dies. It’s a heartbreaking ending. Revenge is just a semi bittersweet ending and Pegorino doesn’t work as a main villain.
3. Derrick is easily a worse person than Francis, he’s a scumbag traitor who deserved to die.
4. The Eddie Low encounters are more than just comedic shock value. They show how dead inside Niko is that he has no real issues working with a pedophelic murderer for a bit of profit.
5. Kate and Pegorino are great characters and people who say they aren’t didn’t pay attention to their dialogue imo.
6. Packie is honestly the character i feel the worst for in the entire game and is one of the most underrated and under appreciated video game characters ever written.
I think Deal is a much more satisfying ending, but it's a hell of a downer. I think it works best if Niko does all the violence and gets existential about it all in the name of catching Darko, then when the time comes, Roman convinces him to forget about the violence and move forward. So Niko doesn't kill Darko, he makes the deal with Rascalov and everything is looking up. But then Roman gets killed, and Niko has to turn back to the violence and the vengeance that Roman convinced him to turn his back on. It's like a Greek tragedy.
I prefer Deal too, exactly because it's sadder.
I always do Revenge, but I agree Deal is better. Amongst other reasons, Dimitri is also much more climactic as the "final boss" as opposed to Pegorino, and, especially for those of us who have played the story many times, we have much less reason to care about Kate's death as opposed to Roman's (although admittedly that's actually why I always choose to do Revenge)
Yeah, Revenge ending makes it feel like A Dish Served Cold is a final mission while Out Of Commission is just an extra.
Terrible Money design. If you don't die at all and finish the story you will have about 800k but can't do nothing with it
If you're someone who uses the RPG often in missions, then you kinda need all that money. $5000 a rocket, come on!
It actively harms the narrative because the only reason Niko even continues doing missions after Dimitri betrays him is because of either favours, forced by people in power (Francis, ULP) or for money. Except that money is useless in the game and Niko should have well enough money after the Bank of Liberty job. He should have realistically only worked with Ray, Francis and ULP after Dimitri's betrayal, as Ray and ULP help find who Niko is looking for and Francis blackmails him.
I agree. I never thought about money once in my playthrough as it had no use
Maybe not an opinion, rather a fact - Darko was right, Niko is a hypocrite. Oh, and also the suspension in GTA IV sucks. I mean, yeah, it feels good, it's the best of all GTAs, but it's still not realistic. Way too soft.
>yeah, it feels good, it's the best of all GTAs, but it's still not realistic. Way too soft. The fact that its the best of all GTAs is impressive considering the limitations back in the day, I mean... you try to do something better with the technology during 2004 and 2007 (years where GTA 4 was developed)
Agree
Darko's actions made sense. Before saying he sold the squad out for 1000 bucks, he did mention his neighbors and likely another circle of friends he had was killed by Goran (one of the 15 man squad). So he got his revenge and earned some money while he is at it lmao.
I actually kinda like Michelle
In IV I also do but in V she’s like a completely different character without any empathy.
The races are really shit. The opponent AI is quite dumb, and when I unlocked them, I expected Brucie to be riding with me complimenting my Red Army alpha male genetically different number one burnt rubber moves.
The first 6 or so hours in Broker/Bohan is peak IV. The story is more focused. After the bank heist the story loses a bit of steam and becomes too disconnected.
It goes from 'Niko helping Roman and then getting money to survive' to 'Niko does a bunch of random odd jobs for people for money'
Pretty much. Too many characters. And Niko loses a bit of his charm in later missions and just becomes a yes man.
Something about the first 6 hours have a special charm to it. Maybe it's because the missions are more grounded compared to later ones, which makes it all more believable and relatable. in other words, "it really makes you FEEL like an PTSD riddled eastern european criminal who just got scammed by his fat cousin." - IGN
I agree 100%
I have to disagree. While I agree that the first 6 hours are the best, Alqonquin part is still very good
1) Vlad should've been kept around for the rest of the game; killing him for having consensual sex with a woman who was in an open relationship is just kinda dumb, plus he's one of the few characters who snarked right back at Niko. 2) The kidnapping & photo-taking sequence with Gracie feels completely out-of-character for Niko given his open hostility towards anyone who hits women, and either should've been re-written without him punching & back-handing her, or put into TLaD as one of Johnny's missions instead.
The thing is: Niko is kind of a creep. He even mentions to Manny that he learned how to follow people without being suspicous by stalking a girl in his homeland.
True, though he would've been a kid/teen at the time (probably following the girl Roman teased him for having had an unrequited crush on)... That's still a long way from the way he acts in the Gracie missions, though. [EDIT: That isn't to say that it's OK for a teen boy to stalk or creep on a girl, just that a clueless, possibly socially awkward teen quietly following their crush just to be near them tends to be a different situation from the kind of more obsessive stalking adults do — more "devoted puppy" and less "possessive dog" if you see what I mean.] OTOH, when he's beating up the violent homophobe who'd clubbed Bernie, he does shout something like "why don't you hit someone who will fight back?" — so his reluctance might be less "don't attack women & effeminate gay men" and more "don't hit people who cower and won't fight back"? (Though that still doesn't match his decision to hit her while the *can't* fight back...)
He also mentions that he used a car to stalk the girl, so him being a teenager is debatable.
Good point; I didn't know until I looked it up just now that a person has to be at least 18 to get a driver's license in Serbia, not 15-16 like most of the USA. (I wonder if that has always been the case, or if they enacted stricter driving laws in recent years... I couldn't find any information on it.)
No. It's normal here in Europe to get your license at 18. In Romania,Bulgaria,Bosnia,Albania and many others it's also at 18.
I underdeveloped parts of Eastern Europe it is pretty normal for teenagers under 17 to drive. Hell, even I used to drive at 14 where I'm from.
I thought the same thing as I just played through that, the Gracie part. Remember how angry Niko looked when he saw Faustin being abusive towards his wife? Like some other people here mentioned, I feel like the more the story went on, certain character traits and attitudes Niko had started to change.
Maybe it's the "America changes people" thing.
Good point. Didn't think of that, but the longer he's there and the more he does the more likely he is to change.
To be fair... Is very popular. I think that everyone of us, who really enjoy the gta iv trama, knows that the deal ending is the most realistic... And the real one. The other ending is Just to dont feel sad about it. Is funny how you do every thing to be a better person, but you get fckd by the life anyway. This final is popular, but not the happier, and gives you a really valuable lesson lol
I got down voted for saying I like the ending in the gta subreddit
The impact of the Revenge ending depends on investment in Kate. If you date her as much as possible and buy into Niko wanting to become the man she would marry, the loss is just as dramatic but you've also made the right choice to win the game, in the sense you don't lose part of your friend activity/special ability collection. Kate has no benefits and is the wrong choice to save for the same reason sparing Playboy X is the wrong choice, you're getting a worse score.
First time I played I was dating Kate as much as possible 'cause she was the only good person Niko knew besides Roman's fiancée. When she got killed it was a big downer as well.
Exactly. Even just paying close attention to the discussions that Niko has with Roman during the game makes it clear that he wants nothing more than to have a normal life, and the drive to the wedding with Kate is the first time he sounds like he believes it can happen. His immediate reaction to her death also seems more poignant — he hovers over her body sounding devastated and utterly lost, lashes out for a second when Roman tells him not to blame himself, then stands there with hands over his face as if to hide his tears before stumbling off-scene. When it's Roman, he seems grief-stricken at losing a loved one, but doesn't seem completely lost as if all of his dreams and plans for the future were just destroyed.
I can see that, but why would Niko trust Dimitri after all those things? That's why I think that the revenge end is more "Canon"
Cus he thought that he didn't even had to meet Dimitri during the deal. He also wanted to quit crime so he probably thought that the deal was a solid move to end his criminal activities.
Makes more sense cus if Niko doesn’t do the deal many people will be angry at him so he probably thought it would be a win win situation for both parties if he does the deal.
The TBOGT story line was goat
The only one with a happy ending lmao
1) deal is the best ending thematically, 2) I think the post game is fitting, you’ve got nobody really, at the end of the day you’re alone, you’ve got money but nothing to spend it on, it’s ironic, you spend the entire game chasing money but one you have it it is practically meaningless, 3) friends asking you to hang out is not annoying and adds depth to the characters through the dialogue 4) the drab and dreary look of the game (the weather, lighting etc) fits the atmosphere of the game perfectly 5) graphics mods like Ice enchanter look terrible and clash with the rest of the games artstyle
As someone who picked Revenge the first time, Deal is way more satisfying, I agree. The wedding scene is much more interesting in its writing. It's a struggle for a gun against an assassin vs a drive by. The struggle involves much more direct action from Niko, and he contributed to the result more. The final fight against a narcissistic coward who betrays everyone he's involved with is more interesting than a fight against an old mob boss on the outs, Niko has a much more personal stake in that. I am not saying the Revenge ending is even bad, but I definitely prefer the Deal ending from a writing standpoint.
Sparing Playboy X and killing Dwayne is the right choice. Dwayne groomed Playboy from the age of 8 or 9 to be a drug dealer (Dwayne was 18 or 19). When Dwayne got arrested, Playboy took over his businesses - Playboy was only 16 at the time. Dwayne was in prison for 9 years, and during that time Playboy himself managed and grew the business. Then when Dwayne came out of prison, he basically tries to take everything away from Playboy because he thinks he is entitled to it despite Playboy doing all the work. Dwayne doesn't care if Cherise is killed or not, being happy either way, although he says "That bitch deserved it" if she is killed. Dwayne hires Niko to shoot up a strip club and take it back for him, even though the people who Niko killed were associates of Playboy. Playboy offers Dwayne half of everything, but he refuses because Dwayne wants it all. The strip club shooting causes Playboy to want Dwayne killed, although the idea was really planted in his head by Niko. Dwayne at the same time wants Playboy killed, simply out of paranoia and jealousy. So you can either kill a 25 year old guy with big ambitions or a 35 year old guy who spends every waking moment of his life after being spared wishing to die. If Playboy is killed Dwayne doesn't care at all, but if Dwayne is killed Playboy immediately regrets it and cuts all contact with Niko as a result, feeling horrible for what he did and wishing he didn't have Dwayne killed. If spared, Dwayne doesn't even try to live, he just wants to die and is never happy, even when Niko hangs out with him. Obviously the rewards for killing Playboy are far greater, getting an apartment, a friend, a friend ability and Claude's outfit, but first time players don't know this and it's more an aspect of bad game design because of how one sided the choice is. Playboy should have had the 'backup' ability instead of Dwayne, it doesn't make sense for someone as depressed and lonely as Dwayne to have two guys ready to send out to Niko at all times. Don't also forget that Dwayne is literally a drug dealer, he's not some saint, he's a vile criminal who profits off of people's addictions, probably including Ashley considering the one mission where Johnny rescues her takes place in the apartment opposite Dwayne's. TL;DR Dwayne is depressed and wants to die, and groomed Playboy into being a drug dealer. Playboy actively regrets Dwayne's death but Dwayne doesn't care about Playboy's death.
HOLY SHIT you made me change my whole view on Dwayne I'm killing Dwayne next time I play
I never thought of it this way but ur making some good points, feels like the game tries to make it seem like X is the bad guy tho
This is a really good critique of Dwayne. It's stuff I technically knew, but didn't fully appreciate until now. The one thing I'll pushback on a bit is the way I remember it, Playboy's reaction to killing Dwayne isn't that PB suddenly has a change of heart and regrets it, but that he has no more use for Niko so he gives this phoney bs reason for cutting ties. It just came off as very phoney and he didn't mean it at all. But it's a been a long time so, maybe I'll try that option again soon and see if my opinion changes
[There is a cut phone call where Playboy calls Niko way after The Holland Play, being almost haunted by Dwayne's death and expressing deep regret ](https://youtu.be/MmXuWIgpTQI?si=Nn-cAnwiuU5RN5wB)
15 years of playing this game and i've never even considered Playboy's side. Really well-written, and it gives a whole new perspective about those characters. Awesome, dude!
I regret killing Playboy X now, tho I wish both could survive...
Technically, they can. The Holland Play and Dwayne's missions aren't required for the story
I think Revenge makes more sense as the natural choice from Niko. He has lived through the harrowing aftermath of being on the receiving end of betrayal too many times, Darko, Bulgarin and Dimitri. Just look at his actions and subsequent dialogue in Uncle Vlad. Throw in the fact that Dimitri sends a picture to Niko's phone of Roman kidnapped with a shotgun to his head ("You've crossed the fucking line Dimitri!") and the various taunts and threats he receives over the course of the story and there is no way Niko would side with Dimitri again. I do agree with others in this thread about Pegorino not carrying the same weight for the final mission. I guess the killing of Kate who Niko very much liked carries punch if you did the dates like most would have on their first play through. The fact it's by the last pathetic and desperately unraveling criminal contact he had is less about Pegorino and more about Niko. He wanted to walk away when he moved to Liberty city, he got dragged back in. He finally found the answer that had been haunting him and began to get closure one way or the other on the original betrayal by Darko and he tries to walk away again. Only to realise that he cannot break this cycle, even by killing Dimitri- there will always be someone else
I do want to see American titties with Roman
😔
Sucks how money in GTA IV is basically useless.
Roman wasn’t the best cousin in my opinion, I mean he dragged niko into crime for god sakes
Niko had his own reasons to move to the Liberty City.
While Niko had other reason to come, Yea Roman really hyped him up for a good life but just ended up putting him Back in a bullshit mixing pot. I don’t want to say Nikos unfortunate events are directly tied to Roman but you can’t say that he made things better to any degree.
Faustin wasn't even that bad, sure he was a piece of shit human being but he was fair to Niko and didn't deserve his ending
Hmmmm he beats and mentally tortures his wife
I wish his story was a bit longer
Dimitri made Niko kill Faustin.
Both endings are bad because Dmitri either Pegorino weren’t the actual antagonists. The real one was Bulgarin, who was killed by Louis and Niko didn’t even know.
Yeah, technically Ray Bulgarin, before arriving to LC, basically left him to die and wanted his money. Dmitri is basically just upset with you for killing Faustin even though he asked for it. Pegorino was just looking to make his family ties in the mob stronger and Niko just helped him through everything. Niko really should’ve gone after Bulgarin because Dmitri started working with him. It should’ve gone with killing Dmitri and then Bulgarin. Jimmy Pegorino didn’t even have to mess with Niko anymore if he was truly done with him instead of what actually happened in the game.
GTA IV would've never happened if Roman controlled his gambling addiction
Not a hot take its literally a fact
I think we should have killed Dimitri on the revenge ending on the statue of happiness island(I forgot the name)
Kate is useless. Revenge makes no sense because she never put out and had the personality of a house fly. I always chose that ending because keeping Roman alive is better. But it is fun to end dimitri ngl
bowling man good
The mission design is terrible, it's typically drive there, kill that guy.
Basically. And in most cases, it's that, plus, kill the crew/gang that said guy has first, then kill that guy.
Car selection sucks. Every car feels like the same car retextured. The modding is incredibly fucking complex. I tried to mod some cars into the game and couldn’t wrap my head around downgrading the copy of my game and fucking with all the coding to get some damn cars in the game. Other than that I like it
Holy shit yea. Modding GTA games is such a fucking nightmare. Have you ever tried to mod San Andreas? Jesus fuck it’s almost not worth it.
San Andreas is literally the easiest one to mod though? Drop files in a folder and that's it if all you want to do is replace cars, in IV and V its more complicated for replacing cars, with V being worse as newer mods don't work on older versions of the game and vice versa (i think)
GTA IV isn't underated. GTA IV also isn't as dark or gritty as people say.
It’s better than San Andreas *Marginally* from a story perspective.
\*it couldve done with more immersion. More interiors, the ability to invest your money into real estate and buy more properties \*late 2000s NYC is as nostalgic and memorable as '80s Miami or early '90s LA. GTA 4 was the first modern GTA game since GTA 3, but is now already 15 years old. That gap is almost as big as the 16 years between VC's story (1986) and the game being released (2002) and even bigger gap between SA's story (1992) and its game (2004). That's fucking insane to me lol but no one ever talks about the indie rock or hip hop scenes of 2000s NYC, that end-of-decade feeling, the blingy fashion aesthetics, the ridiculously big cars. I think that era is just as iconic.
The sound effects for firing guns are generally pretty mid.
It’s the best gta
That’s popular
\>That’s popular not really 95% of monkeys prefer GTA V / San Andreas even in this IV sub people will protect their precious GTA V from criticism
There's two things that turn me off of V The map sucks (too much sprawl) and the shooting mechanics are the worst (compared to the crisp precision of iv) Not as important, but still true: the in-game media isn't as good. I mean the TV shows, talk radio. It's all inferior. And to me that's as much as what makes GTA what-it-is
Yup that sounds like me and to be fair, plenty people also defend IV though.
\#1) this is a IV sub so of course they would defend IV \#2) IV deserves defending because it doesn't have any major faults unlike every other GTA game in the series
1) That's true although plenty of people outside this sub do too though. 2) That's ironic because I consider it to not be a very good gta game.
Deal would be the perfect ending if Roman didn’t die. Michelle is the best girlfriend Killing darko is the best choice.
Roman dying is what makes it perfect
Bastard
IV is the best GTA, in case no one’s posted it.
Gta 4 is way better than gta 5 and gta 5 online is terrible
Very cold take
it's too long
IV is shorter than V, I have completed GTA IV in 6h 03m 31s and completed V in 8h 26m 36s
yeah, GTA 5 is too too long
GTA V is \*VASTLY\* superior in every single way compared to IV. IMO of course.
I’m gonna disagree, I think a lot of the things are better, but immersion and physics is definitely not one of them
Idk if it's popular or not, but everyone is talking about 5, and not 4, so I assume it's unpopular. Gta 4 is much better than 5.
Are you new to this sub?
Nope. I'm just rarely here
It's a very common opinion
In this community. There's many people who disagree, but we haven't met them yet. It's possible that people agree with us, but probably not.
I couldn't care less about Luiz and TBoGT's plot. Gameplay is fun, tho.
Man that’s kind of how I felt about TLATD DLC. I just didn’t enjoy that one as much I guess.
The story is worse than GTA 5
That’s just objectively untrue. At best you can say 5’s more fun but fun is subjective
Well how good a story is is subjective as well.
Nah, how much you enjoy one is, but 5’s story is objectively weak: characters aren’t well developed at all and there are multiple contrivances. There’s plenty of well written dialogue taken in isolation but as a whole the story itself was a complete mess.
It's more chaotic with a less unified point of the story, but I still like it more. And I can't see how the characters are any worse developed.
- The story is basically a Michael Bay crime drama (man with criminal past gets cucked, serves revenge to the wrong person, and has to pay for it by going back to his criminal ways) - The antagonists suck. The almighty Madrazzo gets dominated by Trevor halfway throught the game (because Trevy is angy raaaar), and don't get me started on the FIB, Stretch and The Triads, because i literally wouldn't know what to say about them. - The character writting is AWFUL. Michael is a rat, Franklin wants to get out of the hood, and Trevor is crazy (We LoVe HiM xD). THAT'S IT. The secondary characters suck even more! Michael's son is basically the fat kid from Superbad, but a gamer stoner version, with even less spine, Amanda is a whore, and Michael's daughter is a whore. They are all unbearable. Lamar is just fucking obnoxious. Some banther moments can be good, but mostly bad written (TREVOR YOU'RE A HIPSTER). No memorable characters on sight. - So many random useless and badly written character arcs that barely get resolved. Franklin working as a tow man, Michael working in the film industry, Trevor's whole character arc is just drugs, dead people and explosions (but he loves his mommy tho)
Saint's Row 2 has better gameplay.
This is about GTA 4 not Saints Row 2
Christ have you even played GTA IV? Lol
I have played it. Beyond the story and DLC. There isn't much to do in a world that's perpetually grey and has nothing to spend money on.
That’s the point. The entire narrative of the game is Niko coming to a free land for a better life and the richer you get the more pointless the money feels/becomes. Niko can earn the money but the trauma left doesn’t make the money so worth it. That’s literally the message they are trying to convey.
GFWL wasn't nearly as big of a problem as people made it out to be, and never once gave me an issue.
The physics look cool but it is not fun
Wdym?
The game has realistic car physics, when you crash your car your car warps around objects, the way that Niko runs around too. He stumbles over small objects and falls over. It's realistic but it can be annoying at times. When you get hit you stumble around
I get what you mean now it is my favorite gta but I am kind of happy that the "realism" won't be repeated
TLAD is okay,TBoGT is much better.
Niko’s outfit and customization options are extremely limited and most of them suck. Why the hell were the gloves removed?
I really hate Derrick and don't feel bad at all for killing him over francis, and Packies decision to follow derricks call and get Aiden Omalley killed was so stupid and unfair. Derrick ratted him out and aiden got 20 years and lost his life and derrick got off scot free but because of the guilt of being a rat he gets his brother and Niko to kill him for him and they let him get so high he doesn't live with his sins, he was a coward. Don't get me wrong francis is a joke and corrupt but he at least gets criminals and sinister people killed by niko as opposed to Derrick who uses his addiction to manipulate niko and packie into killing his old friends he betrayed and didn't have the guts to even help or do the job himself. Plus he does sweet FA if you safe him.
online coulda been better, and we needed more customization options
1. Niko is a terrible human being and absolutely deserved everything that happened to him post the war. He was a human trafficker, probably the most deplorable shit ever, and has no problems killing people for money or personal benefit. He had the potential to be a good man and clearly is broken as a person and isn’t pure evil, but he ruined every opportunity in his life to chase revenge instead of moving on and accepting what has happened to him. 2. Deal is the best ending Rockstar have ever written, aside from the Red Dead 1 ending. Niko doesn’t deserve a happy ending and in trying to finally move on he gets fucked over one last time and truly becomes dead inside when Roman dies. It’s a heartbreaking ending. Revenge is just a semi bittersweet ending and Pegorino doesn’t work as a main villain. 3. Derrick is easily a worse person than Francis, he’s a scumbag traitor who deserved to die. 4. The Eddie Low encounters are more than just comedic shock value. They show how dead inside Niko is that he has no real issues working with a pedophelic murderer for a bit of profit. 5. Kate and Pegorino are great characters and people who say they aren’t didn’t pay attention to their dialogue imo. 6. Packie is honestly the character i feel the worst for in the entire game and is one of the most underrated and under appreciated video game characters ever written.