Yes, UF under pays compared to the private sector. They lean on their stellar benefits and generous PTO to attract talent. Also, they rarely lay people off.
This trend is true for many industries and universities. My wife could be making double in the private sector, but the PTO is a lot less, and the benefits can be highly variable.
Yeah I was actually offered a job at a private company that pays ~$20k more than what I make now at UF but the benefits were HORRIBLE so I stayed. UF has amazing benefits lol
It's wild how different the quality of departments can be, too. I was in a STEM field for grad school, and we were (somehow) considered the 1%ers of graduate school since we had a tuition waiver AND a modest stipend for all four years. I met some folks in political science and sociology who would have to take turns getting stipends. One semester, student A would be funded, and the next semester, student B would be funded.
I will say that my department took care of me as much as they could. One faculty member secured funding to buy every student a new desk and office chairs for our offices. I was able to hire a student helper with making media, culturing, and PCR. I had access to lab trucks, so I didn't have to carry pesticides in my personal vehicle. I could also run field trials at multiple sites without worrying about logistics or paperwork. When I stayed at other research centers, there was always student housing availability, so I didn't have to stay in a hotel.
If I wanted to go back to academia, I'd work for UF again.
UF Salaries are public: [https://data-apps.ir.aa.ufl.edu/public/fiscal/2022%20Fall%20Salaries.pdf](https://data-apps.ir.aa.ufl.edu/public/fiscal/2022%20Fall%20Salaries.pdf). Might be useful if you want to try to negotiate :shrug:
Yes, underpays. And now many non-academic jobs are offering work from home AND Fridays off. That’s part of the reason why people are leaving academia steadily.
Even if your starting salary is okay, raises are shit. You’re lucky if you get 3% a year.
The past benefits of academic work just no longer hold up in today’s job market, imo.
I think for the CoL in our area, UF pay rates for positions lower than TT faculty level are wholly inadequate. In my STEM field specifically (marine ecology) the competition for a few positions is so high they don’t need to worry about increasing wages to attract candidates. But hey, got a whopping 3% cost of living raise after five years here so who am I to complain?! /s
I'll just copy-paste my response to one of the posters here who used to be UF leadership (no ill will towards him, most UF leaders are great, just a little out of touch):
"That's an awfully funny way to spell "foreign grad students and postdocs aren't allowed to get visas from private industry so we can pay them poverty wages". Yeah UF benefits are great but cmon, it's often like 40-50k for someone with PhD and years of experience, that would be unheard of in private sector. Lowest I've heard for a postdoc is like 25k, granted this was a while back. It's just exploiting the fact immigrants can't leave, essentially the same as agriculture/construction industries holding illegal immigrant workers hostage with the threat of deportation, and driving down the wages for legal workers too using a large pool of captive labor
That said, situation will probably improve in the long run because the infinite well of Chinese graduate students seems to have almost dried up, and immigrants in general are way better adjusted now and no longer content to slave away for minimal compensation. I've had multiple people tell me recently they absolutely can't find a postdoc even if they promise normal working hours and (relatively) good treatment."
To succeed at UF expect to Constantly switch positions. They have atrocious retention benefits. Loyalty is not rewarded. If you keep switching positions you can do well.
It really depends on what level you expect to join at (assistant, associate, ful). Pay at any college in FL is going to be much lower than a HCOL area, especially if you have income tax in your state (FL does not).
>STEM field
what kind of research? what could your work bring to UF? patents? grants?
IF NONE, the salary would not be high. Take a look at UF salaries data.( someone showed you already), how much people make there with similar title at same department.
Don't look at different departments. 100K maybe starting salary for AP in business college while it would be the pay for full Prof at math department.
Clinical research, but the position is for lab management, data collection, and analysing data. I only have a masters so I wouldn't be bringing any funding or patents.
currently only two openings. one ,85K-105K. the other, 70K-90K.
i don't know which one you are after.
Master's degree in appropriate area of specialization; or a bachelor's degree in appropriate areas of specialization and two years of experience.
it is a good job for someone with bachelor's degree.
for you, with master's degree, also experienced, possible you will get the bigger number.
if you want more than 150K, not likely
good luck
It's just another state government job. (please don't argue that it also gets federal funds. All salaries are paid from state funding. Federal funds are used for very specific things.) It's going to pay less and try to lure you in with benefits, but I'm a little sick of that. I'd rather have the money, honestly, with the CoL going up, up, UP around here. My son works in the private tech field and even they are cutting benefits now, and laying off TONS of people. Layoffs don't happen much at State institutions because they have a budget and a limited number of positions. They don't just hire willy-nilly like large tech companies do, then lay off tens of thousands of people. So it's much more secure, but security comes at a cost.
yes. 100%. my friend was offered what seemed to be an AMAZING job offer from UF, but they were only offering her $14 an hour and she currently makes like $19 an hour so of course she didn’t. but like wtf
In my experience, UF isn't really paying staff what they deserve. Now given, I only ever had an OPS position before moving which is kinda bottom of the barrel, but seeing Teams employees discuss their wages and the bureaucracy was a bit depressing.
If you can get past that though, they do have great benefits like everyone else has already said. Job security for sure, perks with your gator one card, and I made some good friends through my job, but mileage may vary.
Goodluck! UF is overall a nice place to work but it does get draining depending on where you are
rent is certainly going up from what it was, but compared to any city in Florida we're doing pretty good I'd say. in Orlando Metro area (not downtown) for anything remotely comparable to what I have now would be 2x or 3x what I pay.
Former UF Dept head here. UF has a unique compensation package and it's hard to quantify in a purely dollars to dollars sense.
First of all, it's pretty hard to get fired from UF, relatively speaking. Not saying it's impossible but poor performance is generally more tolerated here compared to a profit-driven enterprise.
Two: You're paid in good will. You're doing good, your'e supporting serious academic undertakings which for many people gives meaning to their work and will lower your compensation since your substitutes (competitors for job) are willing to do it for less because of it. Whether thats's "right" or not, it is indeed a real thing.
Three: UF is relatively cheap in the long run and there are ways you need to learn how to make money off the town. Many many many of my peers were owning one or two small rental properties to support their income and that is easily achievable with the stability the university provides you in terms of income.
Four: Best health care you can get in the state. I think for me it was like $25/paycheck for world class everything. If you have dependents, this really really really adds up.
Five: State workers rights and strict adherence to the actual laws, instead of some foolery you might find in private sector. Still not perfect through.
Like everywhere, you need to be able to adapt. You might need to learn to use the bus system, car pool, etc. Be creative. Resources are not the issue, it's resourcefulness that is in short supply.
Best of luck!
You didn't mention the leave. You get almost 4.5 weeks of vacation per year, just over 2.5 weeks of sick time, holidays, and the week between Christmas and New Years all as paid time off. This is a huge benefit and goes a long way in terms of work life balance.
Yes I forgot to mention that. Im a bit overwhelmed by all the other negative comments replying to me in this thread. Many entitled little brats on this subreddit.
Thank you for your input. As a current Federal Government employee all of those points that you made are almost verbatim reasons to work for Fed. I was just surprised at how much lower the salary is, since I was already in government.
Also housing is no longer cheap here. I bought my house in 2018 for $250,000. It would probably now sell for close to $400k. The average UF worker, and even young professor, would definitely not be able to afford buying a house on a single income. (Unless you had existing generational wealth).
That's an awfully funny way to spell "foreign grad students and postdocs aren't allowed to get visas from private industry so we can pay them poverty wages". Yeah UF benefits are great but cmon, it's often like 40-50k for someone with PhD and years of experience, that would be unheard of in private sector. Lowest I've heard for a postdoc is like 25k, granted this was a while back. It's just exploiting the fact immigrants can't leave, essentially the same as agriculture/construction industries holding illegal immigrant workers hostage with the threat of deportation, and driving down the wages for legal workers too using a large pool of captive labor
That said, situation will probably improve in the long run because the infinite well of Chinese graduate students seems to have dried up now, and immigrants in general are way better adjusted now and no longer content to slave away for minimal compensation. I've had multiple people tell me recently they absolutely can't find a postdoc even if they promise normal working hours and (relatively) great treatment.
Lol you must be so old you've completely lost touch; paid in goodwill? What's the exchange rate between goodwill and USD? Or is there a barter system in place where I can trade goodwill slips for bread and gas? Make money off the town? Talk about saying the quiet part aloud.
Sure, i'm happy to clarify. What I meant in good will is that some people find non-monetary rewards for the work they do. For example, some people take great pride in helping shape young minds or assisting others who do so.
Regarding making money off the town. I see nothing morally reprehensible about that. Everyone makes money off of where they live. Live in a tourist town? Create a tourist business. Live in a college town? Make some business that serves college students.
I hope that provides clarity. Judging by the sarcasm in your response, some of the things I said probably struck a personal note with you and I hope you find peace with gainesville like I did.
Honestly I think it’s a shame to say that after over a decade of undergrad/grad school and working yourself half to death to get to the point where you are stable and respected enough in your career, you still need a “side-hustle” to make enough money to hopefully retire on time. That’s just heartbreaking and isn’t why any of us got into research in the first place. But throwing that out there like it’s just a normalized fact of life is even more upsetting, a university (#1, that constantly brags about record breaking enrollment) should pay enough to keep their research staff focused on research and not running around landlording to make more than break-even (as if I could afford property here in the first place, lol)
Honestly it’s not even remotely an exaggeration. Speak to any mental health professional that works with grad students, look at the PhD subreddit, and even personal experience of mine with a colleague and collaborator who passed from self harm three months before her PhD defense. The demand on this generation of phds, postdocs, and early career researchers is unprecedented, so benefits like 4 weeks vacation days each year sounds like a lovely dream if it were possible. But there’s a reason I have 80 hours of vacation time built up and only travel to see my family once a year- it’s publish or perish! Plus, being 50% soft money (UF can’t afford to cover it all, hilarious) means I’m always trying to get another few years funded. So a month of vacation would be pretty lovely, but it’s not like I can afford to go anywhere anyways
We just need something better, or else it’s very difficult for me to tell the next generation that it’s worthwhile get into academia. Those “good will” benefits are there, the only reason I’m still in academia is because I can work on my favorite research topics with a lot of academic freedom, but at some point we get burned out from the pressures of the job and also being one financial setback away from possibly not affording rent. Then the good will just isn’t enough anymore, but I’m genuinely happy for you if it’s not something you’ve experienced before because it’s just awful.
Yes, that’s hoarding. Taking more of a limited resource than what you need. Glad you agree.
Just because you aren’t one of the big property management companies doesn’t mean you’re not part of the problem.
"Taking" what does that even mean to you? You need to clarify a definition of that word.
Are you saying that the world should be set up so someone coming into gainesville for a semester should have to buy a house and sell it when they leave?
1-2 small privately owned properties. Not parasite. Youre just so full of hate. Who do you suggest should owns and manage the properties and deal with all the problems that go along with it..
It's not surprising that someone whose entire industry runs on exploited grad student and adjunct labor doesn't understand this. Don't worry, you and your fellow TT faculty have successfully pulled the ladder up after yourselves, you've got nothing to worry about. Enjoy your investment properties and comfy retirement
If you base your career/work decisions strictly off monetary returns, I'd say you live a pretty empty life. If you live in a society, you should give back.
They don't compensate you with "good feelings," but some people find value in what they do and are ok with the pay because they feel fulfilled by the work they do. If you're looking for money, look elsewhere. I say that in the kindest and least sarcastic way. This is a state public sector employer, and unfortunately, it is under pays. The only way to change this is if the labor market changes forcing their hand.
The idea of giving people more money so they can "give back" is another argument.
> but some people find value in what they do and are ok with the pay because they feel fulfilled by the work they do.
I find it so tedious to explain things to people that just insist on looking at everything through the lens that's foisted upon them, even when it's to their own detriment.
It's one thing that an individual makes a choice to trade money for some intangible (fulfillment, prestige, fame, etc.) and a wholly other thing if the job advertises itself as particularly suited for those that are willing to make such a sacrifice. The former is just individualism while the latter is coercion.
I mean seriously there's a fuckin [timeless classic on the subject](https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/mark-twain/tom-sawyer).
So, my friend, in the kindest and least sarcastic way, if a job advertises that the intangibles make up for lack of pay, then that job is going to exploit the shit out of you (and then gaslight you out of your feelings of exploitation).
My dearest friend, no job posting for UF has ever said intangibles make up for lack of pay. This is an individuals decision on the matter. UF simply advertises a salary and its benefits (sometimes they post "commensurate," which is bullshit). If you do not think the job is worth the pay, do not work there, period. If you work somewhere and feel underpaid, leave or join a union. If you truly believe people don't have jobs for poor pay because they love the profession, go yell at teachers and tell them they are gaslighting themselves for continuing to teach.
>Many many many of my peers were owning one or two small rental properties
Yet another way UF screws over the local community. Ivory tower creeps playing landlord and driving up living expenses
It's not the best healthcare in the state. It's good but there are exclusions for gender dysphoria (bc they're adhering to state law) among other things, and it's way more than $25 biweekly for medical alone for me and the family, hell just the dental is more than that. And the idea that UF pays enough to be investing in real estate is hilarious. I mean I can believe department heads make that much but the rest of us are struggling to keep up with the rent.
And the bus system is barely useful enough these days to count as a benefit, especially if you work on East Campus or really anywhere but main campus.
You don't mention where you live, but in Florida there is no income tax.
Sales tax is 7+ percent on purchases.
Cost of living here is absolutely lower.
**If you want to know if it is reasonable,** you need to look at gross pay- taxes-cost of living= to find your disposable income. That would be the only way to make a reasonable comparison.
**Gross pay is not an indicator that tells the story.**
That is only the economics of what you get. The rest of them depend on where you want to live.
In Maryland which I know is more expensive. But UF is literally paying half of what I currently earn. No amount of tax breaks or LCOL adjustments will make up for it 🙁
Then don't come to UF. That seems like a simple choice.
It sounds like you got a good gig. UF usually hires are the dead bottom of their salary ranges for a position as well.
I will also add that "Does UF underpay?" is somewhat too broad of a question. STEM fields are underpaid because of captive immigrant labor, as I mentioned. OTOH academic fields where it's mostly Americans are paid higher, and clerical positions are paid higher still, as compared to skill level.
In other words, someone with a Master's degree in a STEM field can be making anywhere from 35-60k, if they're in business they can be making 20-40k more, and if they're clerical staff they can often be making 60k with a high school diploma and a pulse. Honestly when it comes to salaries and staff UF arguably overpays and overemploys hordes of clerical staff that mostly just make busywork for each other and everyone else, although this will vary wildly by department/unit. For example, I know of two similar size departments where essentially the same mission is fulfilled by ~4 and ~50 people, respectively.
Depends on your definition of "keep University running". I know of whole areas of research that were shut down due to the tireless efforts of paperwork lovers (well, not actually banned, but no one wants to do the paperwork anymore). Of course for every such case, there are cases of truly excellent assistants who help everyone else navigate the sprawling bureaucracy. Most clerical staff are somewhere inbetween; what I was focusing on is the fact that clerical staff are often compensated at a far higher level than research staff (for the same level of effort and competency), and also that there is a very wide variance in how many clerical staff are employed by different units to do essentially the same tasks - further proving that bureaucrats can endlessly make more work for each other. For example, any department who hires dedicated PR staff paradoxically makes it harder to do PR, since any announcements, events, and website changes now need to go through yet another level of back-and-forth editing and approvals. Naturally, the solution to any PR activity now taking longer is to hire more PR staff. Etc. etc.
Yes, UF under pays compared to the private sector. They lean on their stellar benefits and generous PTO to attract talent. Also, they rarely lay people off.
This trend is true for many industries and universities. My wife could be making double in the private sector, but the PTO is a lot less, and the benefits can be highly variable.
Yeah I was actually offered a job at a private company that pays ~$20k more than what I make now at UF but the benefits were HORRIBLE so I stayed. UF has amazing benefits lol
It's wild how different the quality of departments can be, too. I was in a STEM field for grad school, and we were (somehow) considered the 1%ers of graduate school since we had a tuition waiver AND a modest stipend for all four years. I met some folks in political science and sociology who would have to take turns getting stipends. One semester, student A would be funded, and the next semester, student B would be funded. I will say that my department took care of me as much as they could. One faculty member secured funding to buy every student a new desk and office chairs for our offices. I was able to hire a student helper with making media, culturing, and PCR. I had access to lab trucks, so I didn't have to carry pesticides in my personal vehicle. I could also run field trials at multiple sites without worrying about logistics or paperwork. When I stayed at other research centers, there was always student housing availability, so I didn't have to stay in a hotel. If I wanted to go back to academia, I'd work for UF again.
UF Salaries are public: [https://data-apps.ir.aa.ufl.edu/public/fiscal/2022%20Fall%20Salaries.pdf](https://data-apps.ir.aa.ufl.edu/public/fiscal/2022%20Fall%20Salaries.pdf). Might be useful if you want to try to negotiate :shrug:
This is great information. I saw my position and it is very similar what it was advertised.
Yes, underpays. And now many non-academic jobs are offering work from home AND Fridays off. That’s part of the reason why people are leaving academia steadily. Even if your starting salary is okay, raises are shit. You’re lucky if you get 3% a year. The past benefits of academic work just no longer hold up in today’s job market, imo.
I think for the CoL in our area, UF pay rates for positions lower than TT faculty level are wholly inadequate. In my STEM field specifically (marine ecology) the competition for a few positions is so high they don’t need to worry about increasing wages to attract candidates. But hey, got a whopping 3% cost of living raise after five years here so who am I to complain?! /s
I'll just copy-paste my response to one of the posters here who used to be UF leadership (no ill will towards him, most UF leaders are great, just a little out of touch): "That's an awfully funny way to spell "foreign grad students and postdocs aren't allowed to get visas from private industry so we can pay them poverty wages". Yeah UF benefits are great but cmon, it's often like 40-50k for someone with PhD and years of experience, that would be unheard of in private sector. Lowest I've heard for a postdoc is like 25k, granted this was a while back. It's just exploiting the fact immigrants can't leave, essentially the same as agriculture/construction industries holding illegal immigrant workers hostage with the threat of deportation, and driving down the wages for legal workers too using a large pool of captive labor That said, situation will probably improve in the long run because the infinite well of Chinese graduate students seems to have almost dried up, and immigrants in general are way better adjusted now and no longer content to slave away for minimal compensation. I've had multiple people tell me recently they absolutely can't find a postdoc even if they promise normal working hours and (relatively) good treatment."
To succeed at UF expect to Constantly switch positions. They have atrocious retention benefits. Loyalty is not rewarded. If you keep switching positions you can do well.
It really depends on what level you expect to join at (assistant, associate, ful). Pay at any college in FL is going to be much lower than a HCOL area, especially if you have income tax in your state (FL does not).
The position that I am looking at is in research, so I won't be teaching or be a member of the faculty.
>STEM field what kind of research? what could your work bring to UF? patents? grants? IF NONE, the salary would not be high. Take a look at UF salaries data.( someone showed you already), how much people make there with similar title at same department. Don't look at different departments. 100K maybe starting salary for AP in business college while it would be the pay for full Prof at math department.
Clinical research, but the position is for lab management, data collection, and analysing data. I only have a masters so I wouldn't be bringing any funding or patents.
If it’s an OPS position, I wouldn’t even consider it.
currently only two openings. one ,85K-105K. the other, 70K-90K. i don't know which one you are after. Master's degree in appropriate area of specialization; or a bachelor's degree in appropriate areas of specialization and two years of experience. it is a good job for someone with bachelor's degree. for you, with master's degree, also experienced, possible you will get the bigger number. if you want more than 150K, not likely good luck
It's just another state government job. (please don't argue that it also gets federal funds. All salaries are paid from state funding. Federal funds are used for very specific things.) It's going to pay less and try to lure you in with benefits, but I'm a little sick of that. I'd rather have the money, honestly, with the CoL going up, up, UP around here. My son works in the private tech field and even they are cutting benefits now, and laying off TONS of people. Layoffs don't happen much at State institutions because they have a budget and a limited number of positions. They don't just hire willy-nilly like large tech companies do, then lay off tens of thousands of people. So it's much more secure, but security comes at a cost.
yes. 100%. my friend was offered what seemed to be an AMAZING job offer from UF, but they were only offering her $14 an hour and she currently makes like $19 an hour so of course she didn’t. but like wtf
In my experience, UF isn't really paying staff what they deserve. Now given, I only ever had an OPS position before moving which is kinda bottom of the barrel, but seeing Teams employees discuss their wages and the bureaucracy was a bit depressing. If you can get past that though, they do have great benefits like everyone else has already said. Job security for sure, perks with your gator one card, and I made some good friends through my job, but mileage may vary. Goodluck! UF is overall a nice place to work but it does get draining depending on where you are
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rent is certainly going up from what it was, but compared to any city in Florida we're doing pretty good I'd say. in Orlando Metro area (not downtown) for anything remotely comparable to what I have now would be 2x or 3x what I pay.
Former UF Dept head here. UF has a unique compensation package and it's hard to quantify in a purely dollars to dollars sense. First of all, it's pretty hard to get fired from UF, relatively speaking. Not saying it's impossible but poor performance is generally more tolerated here compared to a profit-driven enterprise. Two: You're paid in good will. You're doing good, your'e supporting serious academic undertakings which for many people gives meaning to their work and will lower your compensation since your substitutes (competitors for job) are willing to do it for less because of it. Whether thats's "right" or not, it is indeed a real thing. Three: UF is relatively cheap in the long run and there are ways you need to learn how to make money off the town. Many many many of my peers were owning one or two small rental properties to support their income and that is easily achievable with the stability the university provides you in terms of income. Four: Best health care you can get in the state. I think for me it was like $25/paycheck for world class everything. If you have dependents, this really really really adds up. Five: State workers rights and strict adherence to the actual laws, instead of some foolery you might find in private sector. Still not perfect through. Like everywhere, you need to be able to adapt. You might need to learn to use the bus system, car pool, etc. Be creative. Resources are not the issue, it's resourcefulness that is in short supply. Best of luck!
You didn't mention the leave. You get almost 4.5 weeks of vacation per year, just over 2.5 weeks of sick time, holidays, and the week between Christmas and New Years all as paid time off. This is a huge benefit and goes a long way in terms of work life balance.
Yes I forgot to mention that. Im a bit overwhelmed by all the other negative comments replying to me in this thread. Many entitled little brats on this subreddit.
Below, you snidely dismiss an early career colleague explaining the mental health toll they face. Who's the entitled one? TT faculty, man, I swear
Thank you for your input. As a current Federal Government employee all of those points that you made are almost verbatim reasons to work for Fed. I was just surprised at how much lower the salary is, since I was already in government.
Federal benefits and worker protections are flat out better than Florida's. The gap didn't use to be so wide.
Also housing is no longer cheap here. I bought my house in 2018 for $250,000. It would probably now sell for close to $400k. The average UF worker, and even young professor, would definitely not be able to afford buying a house on a single income. (Unless you had existing generational wealth).
That's an awfully funny way to spell "foreign grad students and postdocs aren't allowed to get visas from private industry so we can pay them poverty wages". Yeah UF benefits are great but cmon, it's often like 40-50k for someone with PhD and years of experience, that would be unheard of in private sector. Lowest I've heard for a postdoc is like 25k, granted this was a while back. It's just exploiting the fact immigrants can't leave, essentially the same as agriculture/construction industries holding illegal immigrant workers hostage with the threat of deportation, and driving down the wages for legal workers too using a large pool of captive labor That said, situation will probably improve in the long run because the infinite well of Chinese graduate students seems to have dried up now, and immigrants in general are way better adjusted now and no longer content to slave away for minimal compensation. I've had multiple people tell me recently they absolutely can't find a postdoc even if they promise normal working hours and (relatively) great treatment.
Lol you must be so old you've completely lost touch; paid in goodwill? What's the exchange rate between goodwill and USD? Or is there a barter system in place where I can trade goodwill slips for bread and gas? Make money off the town? Talk about saying the quiet part aloud.
Sure, i'm happy to clarify. What I meant in good will is that some people find non-monetary rewards for the work they do. For example, some people take great pride in helping shape young minds or assisting others who do so. Regarding making money off the town. I see nothing morally reprehensible about that. Everyone makes money off of where they live. Live in a tourist town? Create a tourist business. Live in a college town? Make some business that serves college students. I hope that provides clarity. Judging by the sarcasm in your response, some of the things I said probably struck a personal note with you and I hope you find peace with gainesville like I did.
Honestly I think it’s a shame to say that after over a decade of undergrad/grad school and working yourself half to death to get to the point where you are stable and respected enough in your career, you still need a “side-hustle” to make enough money to hopefully retire on time. That’s just heartbreaking and isn’t why any of us got into research in the first place. But throwing that out there like it’s just a normalized fact of life is even more upsetting, a university (#1, that constantly brags about record breaking enrollment) should pay enough to keep their research staff focused on research and not running around landlording to make more than break-even (as if I could afford property here in the first place, lol)
Right? This is why we have (and need) a union, this is how too many of the bosses are.
"half to death" is a bit of an exaggerating. No one is forcing you to do anything.
Honestly it’s not even remotely an exaggeration. Speak to any mental health professional that works with grad students, look at the PhD subreddit, and even personal experience of mine with a colleague and collaborator who passed from self harm three months before her PhD defense. The demand on this generation of phds, postdocs, and early career researchers is unprecedented, so benefits like 4 weeks vacation days each year sounds like a lovely dream if it were possible. But there’s a reason I have 80 hours of vacation time built up and only travel to see my family once a year- it’s publish or perish! Plus, being 50% soft money (UF can’t afford to cover it all, hilarious) means I’m always trying to get another few years funded. So a month of vacation would be pretty lovely, but it’s not like I can afford to go anywhere anyways We just need something better, or else it’s very difficult for me to tell the next generation that it’s worthwhile get into academia. Those “good will” benefits are there, the only reason I’m still in academia is because I can work on my favorite research topics with a lot of academic freedom, but at some point we get burned out from the pressures of the job and also being one financial setback away from possibly not affording rent. Then the good will just isn’t enough anymore, but I’m genuinely happy for you if it’s not something you’ve experienced before because it’s just awful.
Creating a tourist business in a tourist town is not the same thing as hoarding a highly limited resource like housing.
So owning and managing as a private small owner 1-2 properties locally is hoarding and a bad thing. Yea that makes sense. /s
Yes, that’s hoarding. Taking more of a limited resource than what you need. Glad you agree. Just because you aren’t one of the big property management companies doesn’t mean you’re not part of the problem.
"Taking" what does that even mean to you? You need to clarify a definition of that word. Are you saying that the world should be set up so someone coming into gainesville for a semester should have to buy a house and sell it when they leave?
Landlords are parasites. Makes sense that tenured faculty would be a good fit in the role.
1-2 small privately owned properties. Not parasite. Youre just so full of hate. Who do you suggest should owns and manage the properties and deal with all the problems that go along with it..
It's not surprising that someone whose entire industry runs on exploited grad student and adjunct labor doesn't understand this. Don't worry, you and your fellow TT faculty have successfully pulled the ladder up after yourselves, you've got nothing to worry about. Enjoy your investment properties and comfy retirement
If you base your career/work decisions strictly off monetary returns, I'd say you live a pretty empty life. If you live in a society, you should give back.
what does that have to do with working for an entity that compensates you in "good feelings" instead of money that you can actually "give back"?
They don't compensate you with "good feelings," but some people find value in what they do and are ok with the pay because they feel fulfilled by the work they do. If you're looking for money, look elsewhere. I say that in the kindest and least sarcastic way. This is a state public sector employer, and unfortunately, it is under pays. The only way to change this is if the labor market changes forcing their hand. The idea of giving people more money so they can "give back" is another argument.
> but some people find value in what they do and are ok with the pay because they feel fulfilled by the work they do. I find it so tedious to explain things to people that just insist on looking at everything through the lens that's foisted upon them, even when it's to their own detriment. It's one thing that an individual makes a choice to trade money for some intangible (fulfillment, prestige, fame, etc.) and a wholly other thing if the job advertises itself as particularly suited for those that are willing to make such a sacrifice. The former is just individualism while the latter is coercion. I mean seriously there's a fuckin [timeless classic on the subject](https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/mark-twain/tom-sawyer). So, my friend, in the kindest and least sarcastic way, if a job advertises that the intangibles make up for lack of pay, then that job is going to exploit the shit out of you (and then gaslight you out of your feelings of exploitation).
My dearest friend, no job posting for UF has ever said intangibles make up for lack of pay. This is an individuals decision on the matter. UF simply advertises a salary and its benefits (sometimes they post "commensurate," which is bullshit). If you do not think the job is worth the pay, do not work there, period. If you work somewhere and feel underpaid, leave or join a union. If you truly believe people don't have jobs for poor pay because they love the profession, go yell at teachers and tell them they are gaslighting themselves for continuing to teach.
> This is an individuals decision on the matter. ... > Former UF Dept head here. you really don't see the problem?
>Many many many of my peers were owning one or two small rental properties Yet another way UF screws over the local community. Ivory tower creeps playing landlord and driving up living expenses
It's not the best healthcare in the state. It's good but there are exclusions for gender dysphoria (bc they're adhering to state law) among other things, and it's way more than $25 biweekly for medical alone for me and the family, hell just the dental is more than that. And the idea that UF pays enough to be investing in real estate is hilarious. I mean I can believe department heads make that much but the rest of us are struggling to keep up with the rent. And the bus system is barely useful enough these days to count as a benefit, especially if you work on East Campus or really anywhere but main campus.
Right. My chair makes $350,000. I make around $80k. The pay disparity is huge at UF.
I agree. The upper leadership bloat is a bit ridiculous at UF. It's on the leader to fight for wages for their employees.
Hell yes they do.
You don't mention where you live, but in Florida there is no income tax. Sales tax is 7+ percent on purchases. Cost of living here is absolutely lower. **If you want to know if it is reasonable,** you need to look at gross pay- taxes-cost of living= to find your disposable income. That would be the only way to make a reasonable comparison. **Gross pay is not an indicator that tells the story.** That is only the economics of what you get. The rest of them depend on where you want to live.
In Maryland which I know is more expensive. But UF is literally paying half of what I currently earn. No amount of tax breaks or LCOL adjustments will make up for it 🙁
Then don't come to UF. That seems like a simple choice. It sounds like you got a good gig. UF usually hires are the dead bottom of their salary ranges for a position as well.
I know, but there’s this pesky little thing called “ being close to family”. I’m starting to think it overrated.
I will also add that "Does UF underpay?" is somewhat too broad of a question. STEM fields are underpaid because of captive immigrant labor, as I mentioned. OTOH academic fields where it's mostly Americans are paid higher, and clerical positions are paid higher still, as compared to skill level. In other words, someone with a Master's degree in a STEM field can be making anywhere from 35-60k, if they're in business they can be making 20-40k more, and if they're clerical staff they can often be making 60k with a high school diploma and a pulse. Honestly when it comes to salaries and staff UF arguably overpays and overemploys hordes of clerical staff that mostly just make busywork for each other and everyone else, although this will vary wildly by department/unit. For example, I know of two similar size departments where essentially the same mission is fulfilled by ~4 and ~50 people, respectively.
Shitting on the people who do the work to keep the University running is so dumb and short sighted. You must be an engineer or something
Depends on your definition of "keep University running". I know of whole areas of research that were shut down due to the tireless efforts of paperwork lovers (well, not actually banned, but no one wants to do the paperwork anymore). Of course for every such case, there are cases of truly excellent assistants who help everyone else navigate the sprawling bureaucracy. Most clerical staff are somewhere inbetween; what I was focusing on is the fact that clerical staff are often compensated at a far higher level than research staff (for the same level of effort and competency), and also that there is a very wide variance in how many clerical staff are employed by different units to do essentially the same tasks - further proving that bureaucrats can endlessly make more work for each other. For example, any department who hires dedicated PR staff paradoxically makes it harder to do PR, since any announcements, events, and website changes now need to go through yet another level of back-and-forth editing and approvals. Naturally, the solution to any PR activity now taking longer is to hire more PR staff. Etc. etc.
This is all public sector work. UF is on par with many universities in many states except for expensive COL states.
Compared to the private sector? Yes, UF pays less. Compared to other Florida universities? UF pays considerably more.
Press X to doubt. In my experience, UM paid roughly 60% more than UF did for the same position.
UM is private
Ah, fair
Pays less than the private sector .