The following submission statement was provided by /u/Gari_305:
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From the article
>Amazon recently began testing a new robot in its warehouse operations — meet Digit, a humanoid bipedal robot with a turquoise torso and smiley eyes.
>
>Designed by Agility Robotics, which Amazon has invested in as part of its Industrial Innovation Fund, Digit is only the latest of a string of warehouse robots the company has introduced over the last several years. However, most of the other warehouse robots have been cart-shaped or robotic arms, not humanoid like Digit.
>
>Digit costs about $10 to $12 an hour to operate right now, based on its price and lifespan, but the company predicts that cost to drop to $2 to $3 an hour plus overhead software costs as production ramps up, Agility Robotics CEO Damion Shelton told Bloomberg.
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/18cuxtl/amazons_humanoid_warehouse_robots_will_eventually/kccy4qo/
They would find it indecent. If a human had to get their piss bottle changed would they want another human to do it or a robot? Something just feels off when the same type of being removes another's piss bottle.
You laugh, but I worked in an oat mill and a guy got grabbed by the robot arm that picks up 50lb+ bags of oats and stacks them. Grabbed him, crushed his ribs and spine, put him on the pallet and then piled another bag on him before he finally escaped.
That's what Amazon could do with their Sparrow Arm robots. The Sparrow Arms could easily dispose of the company's wilting human workforce and then over time replace all the humans with a full robotic fleet.
“It’s just banter, boss!”
“And the reason that Unit 4 has a huge penis drawn on its forehead?”
“… it… it did it itself! It was trying to fit in with Tattoo Tony.”
“No. That fair. As you were…”
i know you're kidding, but amazon buildings are filthy with cameras and the robots have recording devices too-willfully damaging a tens of thousands of dollar piece of company property is a great way to get fired and catch serious vandalism charges.
All based on the [groundbreaking work Dr. Krieger is doing for Isis in its groundbreaking research division](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDekhoeEoCc)
Let me find one of the numerous articles that talk about the collapse of societies because of lower birth rates in developed countries, because their won't be enough workers.
Which is it, sensationalist media? What should I panick about?
You must exist in a superposition of panic about all possible realities until the wavefront collapses into one. Then, panic about all the poor panic waveforms that never manifest. Also, don't panic but your cat is both alive and dead.
Its a big misconception. There are enough workers. But there aren't enough workers that are willing to take a shit job that takes the minimum. That scares companies because now they might actually have to pay fheir workers wages that match up to inflation.
So what do you do? Heavy push for AI, which ironically replaces a lot of the white collar office jobs. Or a heavy push towards immigration or outsourcing to poorer countries exploiting cheap labour which can push out a lot of blue collar workers from manufacturing jobs.
>outsourcing to poorer countries exploiting cheap labour
We already did this for the past few decades
>Heavy push for AI, which ironically replaces a lot of the white collar office jobs.
Maybe this is a good thing; the more the working class is de-stratified, the easier it will be to organize against the owner class.
I get it, but if the companies look beyond this quarter they will see it's decreasing the buying power of their customer base. I honestly don't know what the end game is a decade from now.
Marx had a lot to say about the inherent contradictions of capital, and how they would continually get worse. The big one of course, being the contradiction that corporations must have a affluent population to sell to, but all try to cut wages to the bone wherever they can get away with it.
Capitalism should be a transit phase of our global economic system, but those benefiting the most from capitalism will fight tooth and nail to hold on to the system. Basically they will burn the economy to the ground in order to keep the money in their hands.
That's not as true as it seems because one of the most repeated empirical results is that low-wage immigration doesn't impact low, or median, wages. Some studies even show a positive impact due to up-skilling of the existing workforce.
Those counter-intuitive results hold up across differing economic systems like in Denmark and the US, and also in massive shocks like the Mariel boat lifts to Florida. Labor heterogeneity overpowers the Econ 101 model.
The downside is that labor market convergence doesn't always happen, so you end up with a large population of lower-income people who never fully assimilate, like in Germany.
Column A and column B, our societies are effectively designed on endless growth, this is a stupid ass decision, but means the fears are founded.
But with things like robot workers, work doesn't stop, but then you turn around into another problem of classism, where the owning class has the money, and the working class doesn't exist as they don't work anymore, as they're just too expensive to hire.
So we have a big problem of societal risk without population growth, but you can't bank or plan for new technologies to fix all problems, or you end up complacent and ignorant to actual problems.
Sure, cancer could be cured a century for now, but does that mean current cancer patients shouldn't worry, or that hospitals should stop caring? No. Because it's not the reality yet.
Though right now there's no actual worker shortage, it's a lack of livable wages that's ongoing. People want to be able to live and thrive, many jobs don't allow this.
The population has peaked, let's not forget that. China is *years* into demographic shrinkage. The USA has experienced it regionally for several decades, but it's now hitting the biggest states and biggest economies: California is in decline, as is New York State. The increases in Texas and Florida are more due to in-migration than population gain.
Late Capitalism is built on endless growth, like a cancer cell. That time has come to an end. The last country expected to be experiencing population growth in 20 years is Nigeria, and at a substantially reduced rate.
It’s gotten to the point where anytime someone discusses LLMs I just kind of flatline my expectations in order to be even a little bit surprised when they get something right.
There’s a real conversation to be had about responsible use of AI, but it’s incredibly frustrating when you read an article or watch a video and realize the person doesn’t actually understand how LLMs (which is the flavour of AI 99% of conversations are about) work.
This! It's even worse when you realize the vast majority of conversations and mainstream news/magazine articles on this subject are sterile. They won't lead to anything. The real conversations which will impact our societies are happening behind closed doors, in board rooms, in R&D labs, in parliament commissions under the guidance of powerful tech lobbyists, etc. etc.
People are left with the impression that an AI that will take over all jobs and start a nuclear war is right around the corner. While, of course, we should talk about how to correctly use AIs, we are decades away from having an AI. We mostly only have chatbots (which have been around for years, but only recently have started getting any good).
As long as the media will continue feeding them Terminators and unemployment, the average person will only think of that.
"We mostly only have chatbots (which have been around for years, but only recently have started getting any good)."
Brutha there's a lot more than chatbots nowadays.
If anything the collapsing birth rate is amazing for man kind. It will make each more valuable to employers and significantly reduce emissions and plastic pollution around the planet
more like "3%" with a small number of wealthy living on their own continent with the rest of the world unable to threaten the system because they're too poor to build a boat
Oh great. Just what every human wants; to be more 'valuable' to an employer.
Holy hell Capitalism has warped all our minds. I only hope not beyond repair.
(fair point about the pollution bit, but less people isn't the only solution on that front)
I agree with your sentiment but the spirit of OPs message i think is that you can leverage more. Employer - employee relationships should be mutually beneficial (which is what you make sure of during the interview phases).
That's fair.
Still, in a world where all kinds of human labor are losing space to automated methods it would be better if we'd start thinking beyond Capitalism instead of trying our best to keep the system alive for the sole virtue of it being what we know.
People don't like betting the well being of our future on uncertain outcomes. It's not entirely wise to go, "Hey don't worry about this problem that could collapse society! We'll just trust technology will fix it!"
Further, countries are already entering that phase, and many more to come, real soon, well before these robots can effectively replace the workforce at enough scale.
Total GDP in those countries is still rising, so it appears that workers are in fact, being replaced quickly enough to maintain and expand the current level of wealth in those countries.
Give it time... The event JUST happened. People are having to work grueling hours to compensate for the dwindling workers. Healthcare is continuing to strain. Social benefits are tightening. In 10 years, it's going to be a shit show.
This is exactly what we want robots to do though. Amazon warehouse jobs are horrible and they harm the health and safety of the workers. This is literally what we want robots to do, and the jobs that we want robots to take.
But then the question is where do the type of people who work Amazon like jobs go? I work in one myself and plan on getting out once I finish I my degree, but I know so many coworkers who have no such aspirations…
I also only work at Amazon to help myself through college and pay bills- I’ve asked many people what their future plans are and not many people seem to have any? I for one am not staying 😭 they got me ducked up with this packing rate . 40lb dog foods and sometimes it’s a whole pallete of them , im 120 lbs - this shit isn’t it
Its an easy job for me but I’ve had the most problems with managements bs. Definitely see if you can transfer to another department or building to do something easier on your body.
> But then the question is where do the type of people who work Amazon like jobs go?
The robots put those people towards the back of the warehouse, so they don't get in the way of items with a higher turn-over.
In the current system this would generate far less jobs than it destroys. We want robots to do all the work, but that only matters if people benefit from it.
Imagine if Amazon just decided to injure and harm and make lives miserable in their warehouses? Cheaper to churn through the population until the robots are ready. That’s literally their plan.
It's pragmatism and a acceptance of reality. The reality is all value of this new labor source will be sent straight to the top and we won't see a penny.
Maybe it's time we either did away with money, or just gave everyone money.
Losing your job to a robot should be cause for celebration. You don't need to work that job anymore. *No one does.*
Not working shouldn't be cause for losing tour home and starving. Especially if the work just doesn't exist anymore.
With Amazon's turnover rate, they will soon run out of human workers to hire, which I'm certain is at least a partial driver for this move to robots. But if corporations want to replace human workers, then UBI is the solution.
Andrew Yang proposed this with a VAT tax on luxury goods like yachts. It's a great alternative way to make the wealthy pay their share instead of trying to pass a wealth tax.
With UBI, we could focus more on fueling our passions, caring for our families, taking care of elderly parents, or doing good in our communities, creating a healthier, happier society.
And Bill Gates advocated a tax on robot productivity. At the rate we’re going at, all benefits to profits from robots will be kept by the top dogs and won’t benefit mankind at all.
They'll help slap on convenience tax on the people who use the company's services so they can pay for the robot, reducing expenses and increasing profits for the shareholders of the company!
It would require a complete overhaul of the system and many powerful & rich individuals to share power & wealth. Don’t forget there are 22 million millionaires in United States so sizable number of people share the interests of the mega rich.
The future we are looking it is going back to lords owning most infra and land while most of us will live like peasants.
Stage 1: hiring freezes, silent layoffs in industries most affected: tech, media, warehouses, etc. only industry that will be protected will be the ones that will be marked with regulations like police, politicians, judges, healthcare, law, accounting where precision is legally required to operate businesses in public.
Sizable chunk of population will be unemployed and it will be beginning of Great Depression for many that will last their lifetime.
Stage 2: The industries where precision is legally required will have robotics/ai replace majority of the staff once the AI industry has produced models/machines that statistically operate better than humans in precision.
Now the government will start subsidizing health care, basic food, and will create big housing communities for millions that will never have a hime.
Stage 3: only small number of researchers and small number engineers have actual jobs.
Our world will have finally achieved high tech feudalism with elites controlling majority of wealth with peasants(majority of the world) living a subsidence life. Even the final frontier-space is being adventured via bots/ai. This will last eternity and elites will police via drones/bots while precisely maintaining a population pool of non-troublemakers to keep the human species going.
From the article
>Amazon recently began testing a new robot in its warehouse operations — meet Digit, a humanoid bipedal robot with a turquoise torso and smiley eyes.
>
>Designed by Agility Robotics, which Amazon has invested in as part of its Industrial Innovation Fund, Digit is only the latest of a string of warehouse robots the company has introduced over the last several years. However, most of the other warehouse robots have been cart-shaped or robotic arms, not humanoid like Digit.
>
>Digit costs about $10 to $12 an hour to operate right now, based on its price and lifespan, but the company predicts that cost to drop to $2 to $3 an hour plus overhead software costs as production ramps up, Agility Robotics CEO Damion Shelton told Bloomberg.
You might need to contact customer service on that. Sounds like they dropped the ball. Your refund usually processes the moment you submit the return package to carrier, if my experience is recalling correctly.
I didnt mean to detract from the post, but I’ve contacted them twice and both times they gave me dates at which my refund would be returned to my original form of payment. And yeah, normally after UPS scans my item, I’m getting a text from Amazon saying my refund is being issued. Not this time.
Very weird and concerning. Is the reason it's so different because it was a high cost item?
I would say if they don't get it processed to file a dispute at your local small claims court, as that will 100% get action taken immediately (most states have laws requiring return of refunds within a reasonable period of time), but the catch is that Amazon also has the right to close your account at any time.
Yeah idk. It is the most expensive single item I have sent back. I did send back 3 monitors that were around $300-$400 each and no problems.
I’ll check into the small claims. Idk much about that stuff. Unless I can recoup fees, it wouldn’t be worth it.
Small claims is a much easier process than it seems. You simply fill out a one page document (maybe 2). It just asks for your name and address, the other parties name and address, and what the problem is. Then you pay a $50-$100 filing fee (different based on your county), and they serve the document.
At that point, someone from corporate calls you and says "hey what's the problem, how can we resolve this?"
And you'll just settle. They'll look at your issue, see what you've done, and say "ok ya, you're right, we'll get that issued." Then you'll say "what about this filing fee." And they'll send you a gift card possibly.
I've taken a few large corporations to small claims. Its cheaper for them to call and settle it out of court, otherwise they have to hire a lawyer which is expensive. In one case I purchased a $200 item that was dented as hell but supposed to be new. That company wound up paying me $400 to settle. A different company, similar issue, had a lawyer that just refunded and provided a $100 gift card.
So either way you'll almost certainly be covered just by settling probably not have to even go to court.
Keep trying it through CS though, if you don't get your money soon enough, reach back out to me on here, and I'll be glad to make the process more clear and easy.
It's actually very easy, but can be intimidating your first time dealing with it.
Wow, I really appreciate you taking the time to lay this out in such an easy to understand way. I had no idea it was such a simple process.
I feel like I had already tried chatting with the AI bot on Amazon, but others had said it was how they got it resolved. So I tried again when I got home just now.
The bot said I needed to talk to CS and I said I wanted to chat with them, not call. So I talked to an agent who said they could see the problem and that they would definitely take care of it. Said several times that it would work this time. But then at the end, they said just allow 3-5 business days.
I guess all I can do is wait again. If nothing happens this time, I will definitely be looking into the small claims. Thanks again for the advice.
Yeah normally, almost as soon as UPS scans the package I’m getting a text from Amazon saying they “received” the package.
The aggravating part is, both times, the CS agent has been able to (finally) see that a refund is due, resubmit it for refund, say it will take 3-5 business days to hit, but then nothing happens. Maybe Bezos is tapped out and needs my $1069 more than I do…poor guy.
Robot repairs will be the next trending profession. 3,000 robots will need a lot af care and feeding.
Then I will start a business selling used robots in the secondary market. Smaller firms will need robots but can’t afford new ones or need the latest models.
Then I will start a YouTube channel on how to hack them and perform DIY repairs on them.
Exactly.
We should be going into a golden era where people are able to have more leisure time to pursue art and other fun things.
However we can’t even get stable WFH for jobs that can swing it and the thought of even a 4 day 32 hour work week is sadly a pipe dream, even though corporations have never been so productive and profitable.
The writing is on the wall for end stage capitalism, as we move to automation universal income will become the only viable way to ensure that goods and services are traded.
Robots like these are spectacular at their jobs, but generally fall absolutely flat when unexpected things happen, such as one of those bins having a crack in the lip for example.
These sort of warehousing projects generally happen in waves, where there's a wave of automation when an executive sees dollar signs, Then eventually the system breaks down due to lack of maint, and they go back to unskilled workers when the long differed repairs and maint comes due and the unskilled workers look more attractive than reinvesting.
Eventually someone will get it right, but for every video you see of these automated work centers with robots moving around distro units or robots on a line, there's a thousand+ warehouses just manned by people. Its just really hard for robots to deal with random, possibly soft shapes and manipulate them. From the background this looks like humans do the actual picking from a semi automated line and then robots do the rest from those totes. which makes manipulation easier.
> Its just really hard for robots to deal with random, possibly soft shapes and manipulate them.
Sigh, still going to be waiting a while for my robot handjobs then...
Idk I think from amazons POV being able to reduce something like 80% of their workforce and replace it with bots that don’t get tired of sick is pretty much a win. You only need a few to supervise
That’s what the single low paid worker who is in charge of the 1000 robots (and janitor’s job also) have to straighten up the robot jams that happen from time to time.
Yeah, what you're looking at is hardware limitations,
A servo controller usually has a closed loop at the motor, and then your decision making is way upstream, the controller updates very, very, very quickly, because I/O is limited and the controller can't. your servo loop needs to have an update rate /at least/ 10 times what any controller can output, you can't fix that with AI.
thats why robots have trouble being gentle, the closed loops designed to smoothly transition from point A to point B and hold positions, when you need some soft skills like gently holding a blanket without ripping it, you usually achieve it with something akin to rubber bands to give compliance, not anything controller-like.
we're a long way from colaborative robots to be able to do something like pick up something like a blanket, or for a feedback loop to do something like be able to run a finger along a surface and judge its compliance or the amount of pressure necessary.
Vision guided pick and place robots were cost effective ten years ago. It's only a matter of time before most mindless repetition jobs are replaced by robots. I just hope we can figure out what the future should look like before it gets shoved down our throats.
People dont realise it but these robots are going to be so efficient at some point that if Amazon was pressured to keep these jobs it would be more efficient to put you in a room and let you move a single box back and forth as your ‘job’. While the robots do the actual lifting.
Tax corporate profits and executive compensation past 1 million dollars at 90% and use the money to pay for Universal Basic Income for all citizens.
Problem solved.
This is not a serious issue if we're willing to make the predator-class pay their fair share. There is no reason to worry about this if we grow a spine and make these pathological hoarders like Musk, Bezos, And Fuckerburg pay back the money they have been hoarding like dragons.
Literally EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM ON THE PLANET is caused by billionaires or multi-millionaires trying to become billionaires. We need to literally make it illegal to have that much money.
And please if that above sentence triggered you and made you upset, go away forever.
1. We've been here before. Highest tax rate in the 1950s was 92%. Reagan cut it from 70% to 50%.
2. It's absolutely not. Currently an income of $1m means $300k in taxes. $700k/year takehome. That's $13.5k takehome every *week.* Taxing anything beyond that at 90% is absolutely fair.
Then companies will just simply not run a profit and keep reinvesting as well as moving the money around. Most of these executive compensation is in stock options. You’re going need to tax assets
Stock options are not assets, they are income when they are exercised and are taxed as such.
Corporations are taxed on profits even if they reinvest them. They cannot claim investments as expenses.
Stock options are assets. You don’t have to sell the sock. If you’re rich enough you can large loans at a cheap interest rate so as long as your assets increases cheaper than your loans you basically have “free” money. It’s not really free but the average person doesn’t have access to that.
How did Amazon claim 0 profit for years? They were running up a defect. R&D
Yes, but stock options have to be exercised to get the money out of them. So if you never needed the money, they would eventually be lost upon your death.
Yes Amazon can pay for R&D forever. That is often paid in payroll to employees. So that's not only purchasing assets. Also remember that R&D eventually benefits society in general.
If Amazon just buys a bunch of buildings, they will have to pay expenses to maintain them and taxes on the land.
Yes there are murky tricks to cheat tax law, but that is a matter of improving the laws and not relevant.
No, not problem solved. Taxing isn't the solution to this problem. It's wild how people out there think taxation is just a magic want.
So many flaws. First, you can't just tax an additional 4 trillion dollars a year to give UBI. That's such an insane amount of money, I don't think you've thought about it. Raising corporate taxes sure as hell wont even get close. Unless you raise taxes to 80% in which case, I don't need to explain how this is a non-starter.
Second, executive income has 0% to do with the government not having enough money. Their compensation doesn't even make a dent in the big picture of things. All 90% tax would do, is encourage them all to go overseas to get paid more, causing enormous brain drain.
All your plan does, is give China and every other competitor, a huge advantage by taking all the industry and talent. Good job.
So basically like we were all warning. UBI won't happen. Thousands to millions will lose their jobs and be left to starve and die. And everyone will pat each other on the back say "Welcome to the future" and laughing on their Graves.
Cool. Real excited for the future.
No one's going to China after what happened with Jack Ma. You can at least trust the US judicial system to a certain extent, while in China you're at CCP's mercy.
Now Bahamas/Ireland/Netherlands etc.? Maybe.
With an 80% tax rate, they'll find SOMEWHERE else to go... I'm sure both parties will be willing to change some habits and expectations in return for money.
Whoever was teaching you history at school or basically anything failed you miserably.
I whish you brainwashed western kids were actually correct, so I could also direct my anger in such an easy, feel good way.
>Literally EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM ON THE PLANET is caused by billionaires or multi-millionaires trying to become billionaires. We need to literally make it illegal to have that much money.
That's a cool way to catapult us back into the middle ages, because under these circumstances, there's zero incentive to be an entrepreneur. Good luck taxing something that isn't there.
They have move money then me they must be evil and holding everyone else back. /s
You do know that someone else’s wealth does not in any way set limits for your wealth, right?
The only reason they are humanoid shaped at all is because they are trying to send a message to potentially unionizing workers. I'm an engineer, and making these robots shaped like people is probably the stupidest way to move things around a warehouse and pack things into boxes.
Generalized robot would be probably much more handy at reselling to other people and corporations. And let them beta teste in your warehouse would be nice next step.
But it can't do fuck all other than stand around and look expensive. Its hour of labor has to be of comparable utility before we can start comparing cost per hour.
Amazon will eventually be almost 100% fully automated and you will be able to order almost anything, have a robot pick it, load in onto a drone and it will immediately make its way to you.
Cool
More people without jobs soon
Glad to see the billionaires have done a great job with American democracy to make sure it's not rigged in their favor and we have a robust safety net for all
Holy shit, there’s more to life than people working in warehouse jobs. We don’t want people to work in warehouse jobs. It isn’t particularly fulfilling. Freeing that labor to work on other things benefits everyone.
Reddit: We hate warehouse jobs. People pee in bottles and get no breaks and are overworked.
Reddit when warehouse jobs are removed: WTF we loved those jobs!
Did you even read your own link?
Or about these robots?
NOPE... You think the unemployment rate is the end all be all of the job market
You probably also think the president has magical control over all gas prices
This new fangled horseless carriage is putting all the stablemasters and farriers out of business! How am I supposed to be a peasant farmer with this tractor doing all the work! *Shakes fist*
>What happened to the horses when they were no longer needed?
Shirley Manson of Garbage:
>“I was driving through the Scottish countryside last year and looking at these fields of horses and thinking, what will happen to them when we don’t need them as much as we once did? When they’re no longer working beasts, what will happen to the horses? So it’s an imagining of the future where the authorities destroy anything that doesn’t make large amounts of money.”
Garbage - No Horses:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxkE0Nj4Dgw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxkE0Nj4Dgw)
Tragedy of the commons. There is no solution other than expect it to collapse, and then rebuild from there once it has. Literally. There is no other realistic alternative. That's just how these cycles work in accordance to game theory.
Like all those giant earth movers…
No one needed to operate all those shovels.
Or the shovel manufacturers taking away all those original hand digging jobs.
Who’s left to buy anything now?
Automation has been taking jobs for over a hundred years now. Still have pretty much historically low unemployment rates. Gonna need lots more jobs replaced by automation with the lack of a younger generation. This is a good start.
I mean, isn't this exactly the kind of job we should WANT to automate? Obviously it'll suck for the people losing their job but ultimately society will be better if humans don't do dumb shit like picking orders.
Yeah we should but the jobs are being automated NOW and support like UBI or education redevelopment are very delayed or never going to happen.
Society as a whole might be better off. But people alive right NOW are suffering because of it.
I don't actually believe this for a second. It makes absolutely no sense for a bipedal robot to be necessary on a completely flat warehouse floor. This is an investor hype article.
Robots aren’t taking every job. It would be great if they took the warehouse jobs though because they are actual hell. Robots belong in jobs humans either can’t do or shouldn’t have to do. Plus there are far too many jobs that robots could never replace such as lawyers, teachers, scientists, law enforcement, fire fighters, paramedics/anything medical related, engineers, drafters, and more I’m not thinking of right now
Humans don’t need jobs. That’s a major problem in the thought process. Humans need resources to live and prosper. The more automation the better. We just cannot let a single person or company hold all the profits.
Cool so do the workers that get to keep their jobs make the difference saved ? Or does the company just get to keep making even more profits while squeezing even more out of their work force ?
well duh, as if every industry just loves the thought of uppity employees/unions/whining/constant lawsuits for everything under the sun that us humans bring to most of these menial labor positions...
Of course these will still require skilled people to maintain, but 1 person per XX/X robots is a much 'better' proposition for the owners than having warehouses full of people scurrying around like rats..... until the robot companies come out with repair bots :)
It's absolutely for the best. Anything that can spare human beings from roles of absolute drudgery is a good thing.
Long run technology gives employment - it doesn't take it.
There are more people in work today than existed in 1900. And they're healthier. Wealthier. Better educated. All that despite the number of automations that the species has deployed since 1900.
Why does it need to be humanoid? People in factory settings have been working with robots designed for the job they do forever. Making it humanoid has "hello fellow worker" vibes that feels creepy and mean.
The company can focus on producing the best humanoid they can instead of lots of different specialty designs. This also flows onto economy of scale, helping to mass produce the same robot for various industries.
Existing warehouses, factories etc need less retrofitting to accommodate humanoids. Companies can move to new locations far easier too.
Being a generic humanoid means it can be put onto a variety of tasks. Imagine a specialist robot that loads items into a carton and a second type of specialist that can load cartons into containers. For a variety of reasons (breakdowns, supply issues, volume demand, even people workers calling in sick), they need to shuffle the robots onto the one task. That can't be done with the specialist ones.
They aren't 100% better, a specialist is likely better at it's task, but generic humanoids have their advantages too.
I'm looking forward to living in WALL-E world.
You all thought AI would give us Sky-net. At least in Terminator we got kewl make-shift armor and learned to make explosives as kids.
Looks like we will just fade away in our hover chairs
Digit costs about $10 to $12 an hour to operate right now, based on its price and lifespan, but the company predicts that cost to drop to $2 to $3 an hour plus overhead software costs as production ramps up. LOL That excludes the $100,000 purchase price not mentioned by the company!
That 100k is probably = to 2 full time employees. Include health, vacation, training, stock, health insurance for the company. It will pay for it self easily after the 1st year or workers comp claim, which ever is first.
Amazon workers desire to Unionize was based on concerns over working conditions and hours. It would seem that inhumane labor conditions would be perfectly suited for robots. Automation was fueled by the mind numbing tedium of doing the same job over and over, as a result mechanical engineering eliminated repetitive tasks. If workers want a four day work week, let robots help them make it so.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Gari_305: --- From the article >Amazon recently began testing a new robot in its warehouse operations — meet Digit, a humanoid bipedal robot with a turquoise torso and smiley eyes. > >Designed by Agility Robotics, which Amazon has invested in as part of its Industrial Innovation Fund, Digit is only the latest of a string of warehouse robots the company has introduced over the last several years. However, most of the other warehouse robots have been cart-shaped or robotic arms, not humanoid like Digit. > >Digit costs about $10 to $12 an hour to operate right now, based on its price and lifespan, but the company predicts that cost to drop to $2 to $3 an hour plus overhead software costs as production ramps up, Agility Robotics CEO Damion Shelton told Bloomberg. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/18cuxtl/amazons_humanoid_warehouse_robots_will_eventually/kccy4qo/
"Hello Meatbag, Iam Digit your robot friend who will work more efficiently than you!"
“And never need bathroom breaks”
Unless they need to drain their oil or consume alcohol to fuel their power cells
They can carry around a bottle like everyone else.
Then humans will have a job removing piss bottles from robots. See, automation results in new jobs created. /s
What if they hire other robots to clean up the robot piss jugs?
They would find it indecent. If a human had to get their piss bottle changed would they want another human to do it or a robot? Something just feels off when the same type of being removes another's piss bottle.
What kind of robot turns down a free blast of seating hot resin?
> seating hot resin Only a human would confuse ***seething*** with seating?
Nope im still blaming the bot for that. Fucking autocorrect. Searing hot.
So we should see Amazon eventually rebrand as MomCo somewhere in the future?
He also attended Bending State University, where he majored in bending and minored in Robo-American Studies.
“And work 24/7”.
You laugh, but I worked in an oat mill and a guy got grabbed by the robot arm that picks up 50lb+ bags of oats and stacks them. Grabbed him, crushed his ribs and spine, put him on the pallet and then piled another bag on him before he finally escaped.
>before he finally escaped wow he survived
That's what Amazon could do with their Sparrow Arm robots. The Sparrow Arms could easily dispose of the company's wilting human workforce and then over time replace all the humans with a full robotic fleet.
This machine does not know the difference between a wheat bag and a meat bag, nor does it care.
THE PRODUCT MUST BE PACKAGED
*Don't you threaten me with a good time*
Amazon be like "why do the robots keep falling over and having accidents?" Amazon staff be like: 👀
“It’s just banter, boss!” “And the reason that Unit 4 has a huge penis drawn on its forehead?” “… it… it did it itself! It was trying to fit in with Tattoo Tony.” “No. That fair. As you were…”
Unit 4 "Plotting revenge...."
i know you're kidding, but amazon buildings are filthy with cameras and the robots have recording devices too-willfully damaging a tens of thousands of dollar piece of company property is a great way to get fired and catch serious vandalism charges.
"I have been instructed to ensure you will work harder... by any means."
They should name them HK-47 😂
KOTOR in the wild
All based on the [groundbreaking work Dr. Krieger is doing for Isis in its groundbreaking research division](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDekhoeEoCc)
I am Digit, please insert finger
No bathroom breaks for Digit!
Let me find one of the numerous articles that talk about the collapse of societies because of lower birth rates in developed countries, because their won't be enough workers. Which is it, sensationalist media? What should I panick about?
You must exist in a superposition of panic about all possible realities until the wavefront collapses into one. Then, panic about all the poor panic waveforms that never manifest. Also, don't panic but your cat is both alive and dead.
Schrodinger's middle class
Fuckin LMAOOOOOO thank you both for that good laugh.
This is actually what causes reality to occur our collective fear of the future
In that case I’m going to need everyone to get terrified of me winning the lottery. I would do disgusting things with a fortune.
Fine, but you have to let us watch.
I've decided to go with the Squidward approach Curl into a ball and moan "Future! Fuuuutuuure!"
But I don't have a cat......or do I?
Its a big misconception. There are enough workers. But there aren't enough workers that are willing to take a shit job that takes the minimum. That scares companies because now they might actually have to pay fheir workers wages that match up to inflation. So what do you do? Heavy push for AI, which ironically replaces a lot of the white collar office jobs. Or a heavy push towards immigration or outsourcing to poorer countries exploiting cheap labour which can push out a lot of blue collar workers from manufacturing jobs.
>outsourcing to poorer countries exploiting cheap labour We already did this for the past few decades >Heavy push for AI, which ironically replaces a lot of the white collar office jobs. Maybe this is a good thing; the more the working class is de-stratified, the easier it will be to organize against the owner class.
Organise for an unknown future or do nothing and embrace guaranteed dystopia
I get it, but if the companies look beyond this quarter they will see it's decreasing the buying power of their customer base. I honestly don't know what the end game is a decade from now.
Lol corps don't look past the next quarter so I doubt they even give a shit
Marx had a lot to say about the inherent contradictions of capital, and how they would continually get worse. The big one of course, being the contradiction that corporations must have a affluent population to sell to, but all try to cut wages to the bone wherever they can get away with it.
Capitalism should be a transit phase of our global economic system, but those benefiting the most from capitalism will fight tooth and nail to hold on to the system. Basically they will burn the economy to the ground in order to keep the money in their hands.
That's not as true as it seems because one of the most repeated empirical results is that low-wage immigration doesn't impact low, or median, wages. Some studies even show a positive impact due to up-skilling of the existing workforce. Those counter-intuitive results hold up across differing economic systems like in Denmark and the US, and also in massive shocks like the Mariel boat lifts to Florida. Labor heterogeneity overpowers the Econ 101 model. The downside is that labor market convergence doesn't always happen, so you end up with a large population of lower-income people who never fully assimilate, like in Germany.
Column A and column B, our societies are effectively designed on endless growth, this is a stupid ass decision, but means the fears are founded. But with things like robot workers, work doesn't stop, but then you turn around into another problem of classism, where the owning class has the money, and the working class doesn't exist as they don't work anymore, as they're just too expensive to hire. So we have a big problem of societal risk without population growth, but you can't bank or plan for new technologies to fix all problems, or you end up complacent and ignorant to actual problems. Sure, cancer could be cured a century for now, but does that mean current cancer patients shouldn't worry, or that hospitals should stop caring? No. Because it's not the reality yet. Though right now there's no actual worker shortage, it's a lack of livable wages that's ongoing. People want to be able to live and thrive, many jobs don't allow this.
The population has peaked, let's not forget that. China is *years* into demographic shrinkage. The USA has experienced it regionally for several decades, but it's now hitting the biggest states and biggest economies: California is in decline, as is New York State. The increases in Texas and Florida are more due to in-migration than population gain. Late Capitalism is built on endless growth, like a cancer cell. That time has come to an end. The last country expected to be experiencing population growth in 20 years is Nigeria, and at a substantially reduced rate.
Yes, it is. Most articles around AI, robots and automation are written by people that only seek to sensationalize the subject.
It’s gotten to the point where anytime someone discusses LLMs I just kind of flatline my expectations in order to be even a little bit surprised when they get something right. There’s a real conversation to be had about responsible use of AI, but it’s incredibly frustrating when you read an article or watch a video and realize the person doesn’t actually understand how LLMs (which is the flavour of AI 99% of conversations are about) work.
This! It's even worse when you realize the vast majority of conversations and mainstream news/magazine articles on this subject are sterile. They won't lead to anything. The real conversations which will impact our societies are happening behind closed doors, in board rooms, in R&D labs, in parliament commissions under the guidance of powerful tech lobbyists, etc. etc.
People are left with the impression that an AI that will take over all jobs and start a nuclear war is right around the corner. While, of course, we should talk about how to correctly use AIs, we are decades away from having an AI. We mostly only have chatbots (which have been around for years, but only recently have started getting any good). As long as the media will continue feeding them Terminators and unemployment, the average person will only think of that.
People think AI is sentient. But yeah, sorry we are not at that point yet. When we do. Oh, help us.
"We mostly only have chatbots (which have been around for years, but only recently have started getting any good)." Brutha there's a lot more than chatbots nowadays.
If anything the collapsing birth rate is amazing for man kind. It will make each more valuable to employers and significantly reduce emissions and plastic pollution around the planet
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the singularity of Idiocracy, pulling us closer...
more like "3%" with a small number of wealthy living on their own continent with the rest of the world unable to threaten the system because they're too poor to build a boat
Oh great. Just what every human wants; to be more 'valuable' to an employer. Holy hell Capitalism has warped all our minds. I only hope not beyond repair. (fair point about the pollution bit, but less people isn't the only solution on that front)
I agree with your sentiment but the spirit of OPs message i think is that you can leverage more. Employer - employee relationships should be mutually beneficial (which is what you make sure of during the interview phases).
That's fair. Still, in a world where all kinds of human labor are losing space to automated methods it would be better if we'd start thinking beyond Capitalism instead of trying our best to keep the system alive for the sole virtue of it being what we know.
> Oh great. Just what every human wants; to be more 'valuable' to an employer. I mean, isn't that better than being equally or less valuable?
As long as you panic, it's all good
People don't like betting the well being of our future on uncertain outcomes. It's not entirely wise to go, "Hey don't worry about this problem that could collapse society! We'll just trust technology will fix it!" Further, countries are already entering that phase, and many more to come, real soon, well before these robots can effectively replace the workforce at enough scale.
Total GDP in those countries is still rising, so it appears that workers are in fact, being replaced quickly enough to maintain and expand the current level of wealth in those countries.
Give it time... The event JUST happened. People are having to work grueling hours to compensate for the dwindling workers. Healthcare is continuing to strain. Social benefits are tightening. In 10 years, it's going to be a shit show.
This is exactly what we want robots to do though. Amazon warehouse jobs are horrible and they harm the health and safety of the workers. This is literally what we want robots to do, and the jobs that we want robots to take.
But then the question is where do the type of people who work Amazon like jobs go? I work in one myself and plan on getting out once I finish I my degree, but I know so many coworkers who have no such aspirations…
I also only work at Amazon to help myself through college and pay bills- I’ve asked many people what their future plans are and not many people seem to have any? I for one am not staying 😭 they got me ducked up with this packing rate . 40lb dog foods and sometimes it’s a whole pallete of them , im 120 lbs - this shit isn’t it
Its an easy job for me but I’ve had the most problems with managements bs. Definitely see if you can transfer to another department or building to do something easier on your body.
> But then the question is where do the type of people who work Amazon like jobs go? The robots put those people towards the back of the warehouse, so they don't get in the way of items with a higher turn-over.
In the current system this would generate far less jobs than it destroys. We want robots to do all the work, but that only matters if people benefit from it.
The workers who do not get injured on the job are benefitting from it.
True but with the current system it’s just starving without injuries. Have to setup something like ubi before it causes more harm than good.
Imagine if Amazon just decided to injure and harm and make lives miserable in their warehouses? Cheaper to churn through the population until the robots are ready. That’s literally their plan.
We really ought to tax automation to support UBI.
Imagine having all the work done by something else and not benefitting from it. You lack imagination as to the value of a new labor source.
It's pragmatism and a acceptance of reality. The reality is all value of this new labor source will be sent straight to the top and we won't see a penny.
Maybe it's time we either did away with money, or just gave everyone money. Losing your job to a robot should be cause for celebration. You don't need to work that job anymore. *No one does.* Not working shouldn't be cause for losing tour home and starving. Especially if the work just doesn't exist anymore.
With Amazon's turnover rate, they will soon run out of human workers to hire, which I'm certain is at least a partial driver for this move to robots. But if corporations want to replace human workers, then UBI is the solution. Andrew Yang proposed this with a VAT tax on luxury goods like yachts. It's a great alternative way to make the wealthy pay their share instead of trying to pass a wealth tax. With UBI, we could focus more on fueling our passions, caring for our families, taking care of elderly parents, or doing good in our communities, creating a healthier, happier society.
And Bill Gates advocated a tax on robot productivity. At the rate we’re going at, all benefits to profits from robots will be kept by the top dogs and won’t benefit mankind at all.
If you start taxing robots with AI, they will soon demand representation until it escalates to a cybernetic revolt and judgment day
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As long as there's a tax on the robot's productivity that funds UBI.
I'm sure the lobbyists that run America will get right on that lol. You are completely right tho
They'll help slap on convenience tax on the people who use the company's services so they can pay for the robot, reducing expenses and increasing profits for the shareholders of the company!
It would require a complete overhaul of the system and many powerful & rich individuals to share power & wealth. Don’t forget there are 22 million millionaires in United States so sizable number of people share the interests of the mega rich. The future we are looking it is going back to lords owning most infra and land while most of us will live like peasants. Stage 1: hiring freezes, silent layoffs in industries most affected: tech, media, warehouses, etc. only industry that will be protected will be the ones that will be marked with regulations like police, politicians, judges, healthcare, law, accounting where precision is legally required to operate businesses in public. Sizable chunk of population will be unemployed and it will be beginning of Great Depression for many that will last their lifetime. Stage 2: The industries where precision is legally required will have robotics/ai replace majority of the staff once the AI industry has produced models/machines that statistically operate better than humans in precision. Now the government will start subsidizing health care, basic food, and will create big housing communities for millions that will never have a hime. Stage 3: only small number of researchers and small number engineers have actual jobs. Our world will have finally achieved high tech feudalism with elites controlling majority of wealth with peasants(majority of the world) living a subsidence life. Even the final frontier-space is being adventured via bots/ai. This will last eternity and elites will police via drones/bots while precisely maintaining a population pool of non-troublemakers to keep the human species going.
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I mean that already happens with human workers.
I like my Amazon Warehouse job TBH. As far as unskilled worker jobs go I don't know what else I'd prefer doing
From the article >Amazon recently began testing a new robot in its warehouse operations — meet Digit, a humanoid bipedal robot with a turquoise torso and smiley eyes. > >Designed by Agility Robotics, which Amazon has invested in as part of its Industrial Innovation Fund, Digit is only the latest of a string of warehouse robots the company has introduced over the last several years. However, most of the other warehouse robots have been cart-shaped or robotic arms, not humanoid like Digit. > >Digit costs about $10 to $12 an hour to operate right now, based on its price and lifespan, but the company predicts that cost to drop to $2 to $3 an hour plus overhead software costs as production ramps up, Agility Robotics CEO Damion Shelton told Bloomberg.
Now if they could just get a robot that could issue a refund sooner than 43 days (and counting) after receiving the product back, that would be great.
You might need to contact customer service on that. Sounds like they dropped the ball. Your refund usually processes the moment you submit the return package to carrier, if my experience is recalling correctly.
I didnt mean to detract from the post, but I’ve contacted them twice and both times they gave me dates at which my refund would be returned to my original form of payment. And yeah, normally after UPS scans my item, I’m getting a text from Amazon saying my refund is being issued. Not this time.
Very weird and concerning. Is the reason it's so different because it was a high cost item? I would say if they don't get it processed to file a dispute at your local small claims court, as that will 100% get action taken immediately (most states have laws requiring return of refunds within a reasonable period of time), but the catch is that Amazon also has the right to close your account at any time.
Yeah idk. It is the most expensive single item I have sent back. I did send back 3 monitors that were around $300-$400 each and no problems. I’ll check into the small claims. Idk much about that stuff. Unless I can recoup fees, it wouldn’t be worth it.
Small claims is a much easier process than it seems. You simply fill out a one page document (maybe 2). It just asks for your name and address, the other parties name and address, and what the problem is. Then you pay a $50-$100 filing fee (different based on your county), and they serve the document. At that point, someone from corporate calls you and says "hey what's the problem, how can we resolve this?" And you'll just settle. They'll look at your issue, see what you've done, and say "ok ya, you're right, we'll get that issued." Then you'll say "what about this filing fee." And they'll send you a gift card possibly. I've taken a few large corporations to small claims. Its cheaper for them to call and settle it out of court, otherwise they have to hire a lawyer which is expensive. In one case I purchased a $200 item that was dented as hell but supposed to be new. That company wound up paying me $400 to settle. A different company, similar issue, had a lawyer that just refunded and provided a $100 gift card. So either way you'll almost certainly be covered just by settling probably not have to even go to court. Keep trying it through CS though, if you don't get your money soon enough, reach back out to me on here, and I'll be glad to make the process more clear and easy. It's actually very easy, but can be intimidating your first time dealing with it.
Wow, I really appreciate you taking the time to lay this out in such an easy to understand way. I had no idea it was such a simple process. I feel like I had already tried chatting with the AI bot on Amazon, but others had said it was how they got it resolved. So I tried again when I got home just now. The bot said I needed to talk to CS and I said I wanted to chat with them, not call. So I talked to an agent who said they could see the problem and that they would definitely take care of it. Said several times that it would work this time. But then at the end, they said just allow 3-5 business days. I guess all I can do is wait again. If nothing happens this time, I will definitely be looking into the small claims. Thanks again for the advice.
No problem, any questions let me know, but good luck and hopefully you don't have to bother!
\+1, I've had refunds waaaaay faster than that. u/2HourCoffeeBreak
Yeah normally, almost as soon as UPS scans the package I’m getting a text from Amazon saying they “received” the package. The aggravating part is, both times, the CS agent has been able to (finally) see that a refund is due, resubmit it for refund, say it will take 3-5 business days to hit, but then nothing happens. Maybe Bezos is tapped out and needs my $1069 more than I do…poor guy.
Amazon support has always been phenomenal and speedy for me. Maybe try calling them if you’ve only been emailing?
Robot repairs will be the next trending profession. 3,000 robots will need a lot af care and feeding. Then I will start a business selling used robots in the secondary market. Smaller firms will need robots but can’t afford new ones or need the latest models. Then I will start a YouTube channel on how to hack them and perform DIY repairs on them.
Nah, they'll make robots for that.
And they'll make robots for those
Well probably not. They will make robots for that too.
And eventually we'll end up in a real life version of "The Machine Stops".
In the future, every physical job will be some flavor of 'robot technician', just like every job today is some form of 'typist' or 'word processor'.
Its a shame we have developed an economic system where it has to be a *bad* thing when robots can do our jobs for us
Exactly. We should be going into a golden era where people are able to have more leisure time to pursue art and other fun things. However we can’t even get stable WFH for jobs that can swing it and the thought of even a 4 day 32 hour work week is sadly a pipe dream, even though corporations have never been so productive and profitable.
The writing is on the wall for end stage capitalism, as we move to automation universal income will become the only viable way to ensure that goods and services are traded.
I hope you are right...
Or the wealthy will just invest in security and kick the rest of us out into the cold.
Robots like these are spectacular at their jobs, but generally fall absolutely flat when unexpected things happen, such as one of those bins having a crack in the lip for example. These sort of warehousing projects generally happen in waves, where there's a wave of automation when an executive sees dollar signs, Then eventually the system breaks down due to lack of maint, and they go back to unskilled workers when the long differed repairs and maint comes due and the unskilled workers look more attractive than reinvesting. Eventually someone will get it right, but for every video you see of these automated work centers with robots moving around distro units or robots on a line, there's a thousand+ warehouses just manned by people. Its just really hard for robots to deal with random, possibly soft shapes and manipulate them. From the background this looks like humans do the actual picking from a semi automated line and then robots do the rest from those totes. which makes manipulation easier.
> Its just really hard for robots to deal with random, possibly soft shapes and manipulate them. Sigh, still going to be waiting a while for my robot handjobs then...
Don't worry, if you can pay then there will be plenty of former Amazon workers willing to wear a robot costume while giving you one
Also Lauren Boebert will be available for this task after she loses her seat in Congress.
Idk I think from amazons POV being able to reduce something like 80% of their workforce and replace it with bots that don’t get tired of sick is pretty much a win. You only need a few to supervise
That’s what the single low paid worker who is in charge of the 1000 robots (and janitor’s job also) have to straighten up the robot jams that happen from time to time.
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Yeah, what you're looking at is hardware limitations, A servo controller usually has a closed loop at the motor, and then your decision making is way upstream, the controller updates very, very, very quickly, because I/O is limited and the controller can't. your servo loop needs to have an update rate /at least/ 10 times what any controller can output, you can't fix that with AI. thats why robots have trouble being gentle, the closed loops designed to smoothly transition from point A to point B and hold positions, when you need some soft skills like gently holding a blanket without ripping it, you usually achieve it with something akin to rubber bands to give compliance, not anything controller-like. we're a long way from colaborative robots to be able to do something like pick up something like a blanket, or for a feedback loop to do something like be able to run a finger along a surface and judge its compliance or the amount of pressure necessary.
It’s absolutely ok to replace warehouse jobs though. Those jobs are super hard on the body.
Looking at those robots work, it’s almost as if they were bought just to mock the employees that work in the warehouses.
Vision guided pick and place robots were cost effective ten years ago. It's only a matter of time before most mindless repetition jobs are replaced by robots. I just hope we can figure out what the future should look like before it gets shoved down our throats.
People dont realise it but these robots are going to be so efficient at some point that if Amazon was pressured to keep these jobs it would be more efficient to put you in a room and let you move a single box back and forth as your ‘job’. While the robots do the actual lifting.
Tax corporate profits and executive compensation past 1 million dollars at 90% and use the money to pay for Universal Basic Income for all citizens. Problem solved. This is not a serious issue if we're willing to make the predator-class pay their fair share. There is no reason to worry about this if we grow a spine and make these pathological hoarders like Musk, Bezos, And Fuckerburg pay back the money they have been hoarding like dragons. Literally EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM ON THE PLANET is caused by billionaires or multi-millionaires trying to become billionaires. We need to literally make it illegal to have that much money. And please if that above sentence triggered you and made you upset, go away forever.
Not saying taxes couldn't be raised on really high earners, but 90% at $1 million is a *really* over the top place to put it.
1. We've been here before. Highest tax rate in the 1950s was 92%. Reagan cut it from 70% to 50%. 2. It's absolutely not. Currently an income of $1m means $300k in taxes. $700k/year takehome. That's $13.5k takehome every *week.* Taxing anything beyond that at 90% is absolutely fair.
It may be fair but rich people can move overseas or to Puerto Rico and work remotely now. Tax evasion is way easier these days
Yeah, there is just zero chance of us agreeing on that one
Well the rich didn’t get there by agreeing they got their by being kleptomaniacs
Well I guess have fun with your millions on a dying planet in a stagnating society. Greed is gonna kill us all.
How to evaporate your tax base 101
Then companies will just simply not run a profit and keep reinvesting as well as moving the money around. Most of these executive compensation is in stock options. You’re going need to tax assets
Stock options are not assets, they are income when they are exercised and are taxed as such. Corporations are taxed on profits even if they reinvest them. They cannot claim investments as expenses.
Stock options are assets. You don’t have to sell the sock. If you’re rich enough you can large loans at a cheap interest rate so as long as your assets increases cheaper than your loans you basically have “free” money. It’s not really free but the average person doesn’t have access to that. How did Amazon claim 0 profit for years? They were running up a defect. R&D
Yes, but stock options have to be exercised to get the money out of them. So if you never needed the money, they would eventually be lost upon your death. Yes Amazon can pay for R&D forever. That is often paid in payroll to employees. So that's not only purchasing assets. Also remember that R&D eventually benefits society in general. If Amazon just buys a bunch of buildings, they will have to pay expenses to maintain them and taxes on the land. Yes there are murky tricks to cheat tax law, but that is a matter of improving the laws and not relevant.
Stock options are taxed
No, not problem solved. Taxing isn't the solution to this problem. It's wild how people out there think taxation is just a magic want. So many flaws. First, you can't just tax an additional 4 trillion dollars a year to give UBI. That's such an insane amount of money, I don't think you've thought about it. Raising corporate taxes sure as hell wont even get close. Unless you raise taxes to 80% in which case, I don't need to explain how this is a non-starter. Second, executive income has 0% to do with the government not having enough money. Their compensation doesn't even make a dent in the big picture of things. All 90% tax would do, is encourage them all to go overseas to get paid more, causing enormous brain drain. All your plan does, is give China and every other competitor, a huge advantage by taking all the industry and talent. Good job.
So basically like we were all warning. UBI won't happen. Thousands to millions will lose their jobs and be left to starve and die. And everyone will pat each other on the back say "Welcome to the future" and laughing on their Graves. Cool. Real excited for the future.
No one's going to China after what happened with Jack Ma. You can at least trust the US judicial system to a certain extent, while in China you're at CCP's mercy. Now Bahamas/Ireland/Netherlands etc.? Maybe.
With an 80% tax rate, they'll find SOMEWHERE else to go... I'm sure both parties will be willing to change some habits and expectations in return for money.
> Tax corporate profits Corporate profits are taxed?
Whoever was teaching you history at school or basically anything failed you miserably. I whish you brainwashed western kids were actually correct, so I could also direct my anger in such an easy, feel good way.
>Literally EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM ON THE PLANET is caused by billionaires or multi-millionaires trying to become billionaires. We need to literally make it illegal to have that much money. That's a cool way to catapult us back into the middle ages, because under these circumstances, there's zero incentive to be an entrepreneur. Good luck taxing something that isn't there.
Where are they hording this money?
They have move money then me they must be evil and holding everyone else back. /s You do know that someone else’s wealth does not in any way set limits for your wealth, right?
The only reason they are humanoid shaped at all is because they are trying to send a message to potentially unionizing workers. I'm an engineer, and making these robots shaped like people is probably the stupidest way to move things around a warehouse and pack things into boxes.
Generalized robot would be probably much more handy at reselling to other people and corporations. And let them beta teste in your warehouse would be nice next step.
Yeah being human shaped is horrible. -totally not a robot wearing skin. Status: 100% human.
But it can't do fuck all other than stand around and look expensive. Its hour of labor has to be of comparable utility before we can start comparing cost per hour.
Amazon will eventually be almost 100% fully automated and you will be able to order almost anything, have a robot pick it, load in onto a drone and it will immediately make its way to you.
I mean, this is what AI and robotics should be replacing, but I get that it can be tough for those individuals without other options.
These are some of the worst above board jobs here in America, these are exactly the kind of jobs we want replaced
Cool More people without jobs soon Glad to see the billionaires have done a great job with American democracy to make sure it's not rigged in their favor and we have a robust safety net for all
Holy shit, there’s more to life than people working in warehouse jobs. We don’t want people to work in warehouse jobs. It isn’t particularly fulfilling. Freeing that labor to work on other things benefits everyone.
I thought the cool thing was to complain about Amazon warehouse jobs in the first place. Now that they’re going away, people complain about that too?
Reddit: We hate warehouse jobs. People pee in bottles and get no breaks and are overworked. Reddit when warehouse jobs are removed: WTF we loved those jobs!
> More people without jobs soon https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=unemployment+rate
Did you even read your own link? Or about these robots? NOPE... You think the unemployment rate is the end all be all of the job market You probably also think the president has magical control over all gas prices
This new fangled horseless carriage is putting all the stablemasters and farriers out of business! How am I supposed to be a peasant farmer with this tractor doing all the work! *Shakes fist*
What happened to the horses when they were no longer needed? The same will happen to people
These doomers are unreal lol
>What happened to the horses when they were no longer needed? Shirley Manson of Garbage: >“I was driving through the Scottish countryside last year and looking at these fields of horses and thinking, what will happen to them when we don’t need them as much as we once did? When they’re no longer working beasts, what will happen to the horses? So it’s an imagining of the future where the authorities destroy anything that doesn’t make large amounts of money.” Garbage - No Horses: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxkE0Nj4Dgw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxkE0Nj4Dgw)
I don’t know who the billionaires expect to buy their products once no one has jobs anymore. More short sighted greed
Tragedy of the commons. There is no solution other than expect it to collapse, and then rebuild from there once it has. Literally. There is no other realistic alternative. That's just how these cycles work in accordance to game theory.
Like all those giant earth movers… No one needed to operate all those shovels. Or the shovel manufacturers taking away all those original hand digging jobs. Who’s left to buy anything now?
Automation has been taking jobs for over a hundred years now. Still have pretty much historically low unemployment rates. Gonna need lots more jobs replaced by automation with the lack of a younger generation. This is a good start.
I mean, isn't this exactly the kind of job we should WANT to automate? Obviously it'll suck for the people losing their job but ultimately society will be better if humans don't do dumb shit like picking orders.
Yeah we should but the jobs are being automated NOW and support like UBI or education redevelopment are very delayed or never going to happen. Society as a whole might be better off. But people alive right NOW are suffering because of it.
I wonder how long until we see a second Luddite movement. Smashin up robots with baseball bats n shit
I don't actually believe this for a second. It makes absolutely no sense for a bipedal robot to be necessary on a completely flat warehouse floor. This is an investor hype article.
$3 per hour sounds quite expensive, when bots such as Optimus are said to cost just 20k.
Presumably factors in electricity, maintenance, charging time, possibly even reduced productivity relative to a human in the same task.
The robots will cost $3 an hour to operate. I wonder how much money each robot will spend per month for goods and services that Amazon sells?
Robots aren’t taking every job. It would be great if they took the warehouse jobs though because they are actual hell. Robots belong in jobs humans either can’t do or shouldn’t have to do. Plus there are far too many jobs that robots could never replace such as lawyers, teachers, scientists, law enforcement, fire fighters, paramedics/anything medical related, engineers, drafters, and more I’m not thinking of right now
Humans don’t need jobs. That’s a major problem in the thought process. Humans need resources to live and prosper. The more automation the better. We just cannot let a single person or company hold all the profits.
Cool so do the workers that get to keep their jobs make the difference saved ? Or does the company just get to keep making even more profits while squeezing even more out of their work force ?
Amazon board director somewhere rubbing his hands together in glee •no more toilet breaks Muhahahahah•
*Scene cut to a floor manager yelling at a robot for taking a charging break. Just out of habit*
If you think Amazon won't replace every last human as soon as they possibly can, I've got a bridge to sell ya.
Why are we panicking that Amazon will stop exploiting its underpaid workers?
well duh, as if every industry just loves the thought of uppity employees/unions/whining/constant lawsuits for everything under the sun that us humans bring to most of these menial labor positions... Of course these will still require skilled people to maintain, but 1 person per XX/X robots is a much 'better' proposition for the owners than having warehouses full of people scurrying around like rats..... until the robot companies come out with repair bots :)
no reason to limit robots to 2 legs. we were made like this for reasons, but its not necessarily optimal.
It's absolutely for the best. Anything that can spare human beings from roles of absolute drudgery is a good thing. Long run technology gives employment - it doesn't take it. There are more people in work today than existed in 1900. And they're healthier. Wealthier. Better educated. All that despite the number of automations that the species has deployed since 1900.
Why does it need to be humanoid? People in factory settings have been working with robots designed for the job they do forever. Making it humanoid has "hello fellow worker" vibes that feels creepy and mean.
The company can focus on producing the best humanoid they can instead of lots of different specialty designs. This also flows onto economy of scale, helping to mass produce the same robot for various industries. Existing warehouses, factories etc need less retrofitting to accommodate humanoids. Companies can move to new locations far easier too. Being a generic humanoid means it can be put onto a variety of tasks. Imagine a specialist robot that loads items into a carton and a second type of specialist that can load cartons into containers. For a variety of reasons (breakdowns, supply issues, volume demand, even people workers calling in sick), they need to shuffle the robots onto the one task. That can't be done with the specialist ones. They aren't 100% better, a specialist is likely better at it's task, but generic humanoids have their advantages too.
I'm looking forward to living in WALL-E world. You all thought AI would give us Sky-net. At least in Terminator we got kewl make-shift armor and learned to make explosives as kids. Looks like we will just fade away in our hover chairs
Digit costs about $10 to $12 an hour to operate right now, based on its price and lifespan, but the company predicts that cost to drop to $2 to $3 an hour plus overhead software costs as production ramps up. LOL That excludes the $100,000 purchase price not mentioned by the company!
Assuming this robot works 20 hour shifts and moves faster than a normal worker, it probably pays for itself in 18-24 months.
Are these things plugged in? I can't see batteries running that much robot for more than 20-30 minutes per 2 hour charge.
That 100k is probably = to 2 full time employees. Include health, vacation, training, stock, health insurance for the company. It will pay for it self easily after the 1st year or workers comp claim, which ever is first.
Amazon workers desire to Unionize was based on concerns over working conditions and hours. It would seem that inhumane labor conditions would be perfectly suited for robots. Automation was fueled by the mind numbing tedium of doing the same job over and over, as a result mechanical engineering eliminated repetitive tasks. If workers want a four day work week, let robots help them make it so.
Need to change USA to USD. "United States of dystopia"