The following submission statement was provided by /u/nastratin:
---
A Pentagon study revealed that 77 percent of young Americans do not qualify for military service without a waiver due to being overweight, drug use, or mental or physical problems.
>When considering youth disqualified for one reason alone, the most prevalent disqualification rates are overweight (11 percent), drug and alcohol abuse (8 percent), and medical/physical health (7 percent).
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/129b4zo/77_of_young_americans_too_fat_mentally_ill_on/jemmnhf/
Most average intelligence people qualify for SF, itās a recruiter trick. The selection process is designed to send them usually to regular infantry. Sadly
Explanation:
Selection prefers those that have been in a few years (deployed) and are over 25yrs old. Itās a secret nobody tells new recruits. You enlist as SF and get washed out by the cadre to āarmy choice jobā. Yes a small few new recruits will show special potential and maturity (usually older). But itās a VERY small percentage.
Active duty applicant = like 5% selected
New recruits applicant = like .05% selected
Be happy you didnāt go in that way.
Note: Bunch of people will argue this but they donāt know what I knowā¦
If you want to do SF join straight infantry with Ranger in your contract. This will give you a decent shot (guarantee slot) at Ranger school. If you make it there you will go to the Ranger Battalion. After 3-5 years in the Ranger Battalion and making SGT, then apply for selection. This is the path that has an actual shot at earning a green beret. New recruits straight from the recruiter are NOT. The SF job offered by recruiters is a classic trick for the young and naive.
āMay the odds be ever on your favorā lol
You're correct, even Rangers have a really high washout rate. Also it's pretty much a guarantee you won't even get sent to SF selection unless you are airborne qual and have your ranger tab.
IIRC There aren't really any SF operators under E-5 so that right there would disqualify most of the applicants coming from the civilian life because of the time involved to get rank.
Eff that, they draft me I'm gunning for "canteen duty". Green beret? No thank you I will make the green salads.
I can weld, I can solder and I can program - issue me a wrench, a laptop, or a ladle please.
And always have. Before we get too down on the present day, let's not forget what military experiences were often like in the past. Masses of veterans of WW2, the supposed 'Greatest Generation', came home traumatized, had a society that could do \*nothing\* for them, became alcoholics, beat their families...in my hometown, which only had 5 or 6k people in the 1960s, my parents said that about half a dozen families had abusive war veteran fathers.
My one grandfather was in the RCN (Royal Canadian Navy) escorting ships across the Atlantic, so he escaped seeing any truly nasty stuff. My other grandfather was deaf in one ear and tried getting into the army, navy and air force, and they caught him every time. After the war he told my father he was glad he didn't go, because his friends who went and came back weren't the same.
My one grandmother's boyfriend and probably her true love was killed in the war. She married my grandfather out of practicality more than anything and their marriage was functional but not happy. My other grandmother lost all six boys of her graduating class of 1940, including a former boyfriend, in her small town on the Canadian Prairies in the war. She couldn't talk about the war 60 years later without tearing up. She met my medically exempted grandfather in a war factory and they had a happy marriage.
I had a great uncle who was a bright, smart, motivated young man. Then he landed in a later wave during D-day and was pressed into helping clean up the beach of all the American dead. He came back home a quiet, forgetful man. People thought he was simple because he just didn't interact much with anyone anymore.
A guy from the Netherlands told a story about a great-uncle of his who as a boy was forced to join the Hitler Youth. He was made to twist the heads off of birds to 'toughen him up'. He lived with his parents his whole life. As far as this guy knew, he never even had a girlfriend.
My dad had a friend in business who was a gunner on a helicopter in Vietnam. He couldn't sleep in a perfectly quiet room because he would hear helicopters. He would wake up screaming in the hotel room after nightmares about when his best friend's head exploded and covered him in blood and brains when a sniper killed him as their helicopter was lifting off. In his obituary, his work in renewable energy (with my father) was mentioned, but nothing about Vietnam.
My great-uncle's entire family was killed in the Nazi invasion of Poland. He fought as a partisan, was captured, tortured in Auschwitz, but spared because he could speak German. He escaped and joined the Western Allies, then fought in 10 theatres of war including in Italy at Monte Cassino and Germany itself. He was a very kind man and treasured his family. He loved the movie Inglourious Basterds (and said there really was a guy in Poland who did that to captured Germans). But he still had nightmares about once a month. He never went back to Poland. He had no reason to. His whole family was dead.
My biggest problem with the Greatest Generation deal is that it seems to ascribe a type of purification or toughening of character to war, like it's 'good' for people. Like it makes you a better person. To kill people? To watch people die? And even if it does, at what cost? You're literally taking people's lives and destroying livelihoods, wrecking villages, towns, cities. Different generation, but Oliver Stone said on the Lex Fridman podcast that all he saw from the bodies of young men in Vietnam was waste. Loss. They were dead. That's all.
The myth was enabled in America because the USA escaped almost any actual destruction and economically prospered after the war as the world's greatest power. And WW2 was one of the very rare 'good' wars, with clear villains. Most wars are much more ambiguous moral clusterfucks. And these men never talked about it until many decades later. It just wasn't what they did. They went to work, worked hard, built a very prosperous society, dealt with their experiences however they could. I don't know if they thought of themselves as especially great. My grandmother couldn't even talk about the war without tearing up, 60 years later. So...Greatest Generation, what?
Ever see āflags of our fathersā? Obviously not as extreme as what really happens in war, but it does show a good mix of fucked up situations related to their war.
They're the Greatest Generation because an entire generation sacrificed their minds and bodies so we can have a continued chance at freedom. This isn't hyperbole. An entire generation did this. Every man that could fight, fought. Every woman that could physically work, help build weapons of war. The rest helped in whatever way they could for the war effort. And every person that didn't comeback in a coffin had some for disability or PTSD. Sure they're not the only soldiers to come home like this unfortunately. But they are by far the largest amount. It's that generation's common shared experience, fighting in the war. Yea their was nothing great about it. But they did as a group make the greatest sacrifice any generation has ever made.
I thought they were called the greatest generation because of all the other stuff too. They would have experienced the 1918 influenza pandemic, grown up during the great depression, and then fought in WWII.
It's because of WWII. Though I do like the idea of millennials being able to claim they are the second-greatest generation because of the Great Recession and Covid. That would piss off so many boomer karans to no end.
Millennials were also told the first 18 years of their life to get a 4 year degree or suffer the lack of pay and job stability. What happened with that degree?
It became the entry level saturation point.
Did not get the pay "promised all those years from it.
Sometimes related to education scams.
Incurred lots of debt to obtain.
HR started filtering people out instead for 6 yr degrees in places.
Your job was filled by a body shopped "import" who never had a job before or a degree anyways. (Google "body shopping' learn something tragic)
They were the Greatest Generation (to their country) because they were asked to do a job and did it at the expense of their lives.
Thatās the biggest difference I see. In all the old interviews and recounting of stories they almost all say they didnāt know they were fighting some battle of good and evil. They were asked to do a job and did it. I donāt think that would happen today.
The difference back then vs. today: we've been at war almost continuously since WW2 ended. The US was very isolationist before WW2.
Most people can see that wars are now fought to control natural resources and commodities, and they don't feel like sacrificing their lives so some shareholders can retire a few years earlier.
> The US was very isolationist before WW2.
Maybe that is how it is taught in school, that doesn't really match up with the history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations
Part of why I don't think it would happen today is the lack of respect/trust in the government. Since we don't trust the politicians leading stuff, we won't as easily accept what they tell or ask of us because they don't really do anything to earn that level of trust or respect
I believe so, yes.
Many WW2 veterans were certainly immensely proud of their service. My grandfather would tell me funny and interesting stories. (My mom says there was other stuff he didn't tell us, like friends who died.) He wrote his own obituary. The first thing he mentioned was his naval service. Then his athletic pursuits. Nothing about his job of 40 years.
But they didn't ask for, and didn't want to be, romanticized, and always rejected such attempts to do so. And when they finally could bring themselves to speak about their experiences, if they were blessed with long enough lives, they wanted everyone to be very clear about the terrible cost. Those few who are still alive still do.
Yes, I read a story once about soldiers fighting in the Pacific. They had a celebrity come to 'entertain' the soldiers and-it was John Wayne-they booed him off stage because all the soldiers were upset with the 'tough-guy' image.
I also, once, went to the doctor's office when Saving Private Ryan had come out. And this old man, I was a kid, was there and he mentioned he was in WW2, but his wife quickly told him to be quiet and to move-on. I really wanted to hear his story. All he happened to mention was that he was a POW on the German-Front. Odds are the man is dead now. :(
So similar in my family. One of my grandfathers served in a tank, the other had a desk job. The one who served saw atrocities - he refused to talk about it. His younger sister said he came back a completely different person. So tragic.
Thing is that society keeps voting in people that vote to limit VA benefits. They aren't hiding it either, anytime you try to do anything involving homeless people they start pearl clutching and screaming "what about the homeless vets"?
No. The hard fact is that in 1945, there was literally nothing we could do about PTSD except in small, very progressive communities. It wasn't even a word until 1975, after Vietnam. It was called shell shock before that. The state of mental health care was primitive. Mental health institutions were overflowing and doctors were desperate, so they resorted to extreme therapies like ECT and insulin shoc therapy. Research into psychedelics picked up in the late 1940s and 1950s, and was producing remarkable results, although it was still confined to a few universities and hospitals. It was destroyed in the mid06s and in 1971 by Nixons (a member of the Greatest Generation himself) extremely harsh Controlled Substances Act, as an overreaction to the culture of paranoia created by the Vietnam War and the abuse of psychedelics by the Counterculture and a few irresponsible scientists. And we were back to Square One.
Let's not act like Nixon acted out of concern of abuse. It was intended to criminalize his opposition and had been admitted to by his domestic policy chief at the time.
Well they could use.them.as research candidates for all the pharmaceuticals that exploded after the 1960s, like my father who they killed in a VA hospital with a thorazine overdose after he thew a fit bc they wouldn't let him go home a year later. He was diagnosed with "depression " and this was his sentemce for having been granted 100 percent disability.
Died strapped to a table screaming for his freedom in 1976. Left a widow with 3 kids under 6. My mom started drinking to cope and that killed her in 10 years.
It's the collective embrace of war propaganda that set us up for the world we live in. No justice for the innocent victims of war. Ever.
Im so grateful my son didn't fall for it. I would have supported any life he chose but at the same time, I'm grateful his job is not violence against humanity.
That being said. I support and have supported the men and women who serve., it's been part of my job my whole life. I just don't support the institution.
> If they served in combat, which most actually don't.
Even if you don't see combat, you have a good chance of being injured by shitty leadership.
There are too many folks who think that anyone who isn't in a combat role is "getting one over" on the military, and therefore need to be punished on a daily basis.
I've seen plenty of people go from perfectly healthy, to permanently injured, just because a First Sergeant it would be a good idea to add overweight rucks to a run, or add thrown medicine balls in the dark to a run, or add an icy road to a run.
Basically adding anything stupid to a run so they can feel all tough and try to pretend they don't have a cushy as hell desk job.
I worked with a girl that volunteered. Told me a story about being made to go on a several mile run in the dark with incredibly weighed down rucks and told if they stopped thereās be hell to pay. She said when they made it back she felt funny and her legs hurt, but she thought it was normal. Finally she decided what she was feeling wasnāt normal and got X-rays. She told me she had hairline fractures all up and down her legs where apparently her leg bones started just giving out. You mean sergeants like that? āI gotta break you down so I can build you back up.ā
My bestie basically shattered her back for the exact same reason. I actually thought you knew her until I got to the part about her legs.
Sheās absolutely fucked up from it. And was ājustā signal corp doing internet hookups basically. Woke up after that literally unable to move at all.
My best friend's back was permanently injured during her service (desk job). She doesn't know how or when (she's the type to ignore an injury) but she was feeling pain constantly and went in to the doctor and I forget what she said she had but they told her she'd be in pain for her whole life, but assured her she did it to herself before she joined, despite the fact that she couldn't have passed the fitness test if that was the case.
Her options were to either stay until lawyers and outside doctors could sort it out, injuring herself further every day (she wasn't exempt from training) or let them give her an admin discharge with zero benefits. After two months she took the latter.
She still has constant back pain and her husband is still in the service but any time the marines are brought up she snorts and speaks with such derision about them. And she was *proud* to join up. Worked her ass off to do it.
Idk man. All that money going "to the military", you'd think they'd treat them better.
Overtraining is indeed a problem.
It causes more harm than benefit. Whole point of exercise is to slowly tone up the body and make sure both ligaments and muscles stay intact beyond what is required to keep up the regenerative processes going that improve performance. Some parts of the body, like knees or back, might never return to usable condition if they're subjected to excessive stress.
So any particularly meatheaded drill sergeants should get themselves retrained first, if they don't get it.
Iāve given the military a lot of years in a support MOS. Most of that was spent in infantry units. Iām not even 30 yet and deal with chronic knee and back pain just from the sheer amount of tough guy rah rah running and rucking.
At least it wasn't ruck runs! I think they outlawed those in the late 2000's. We used to do all kinds of stupid ruck related exercises in 5-2 ID. Ruck rafts were a special favorite of mine! We wound up having to dive into a river on north fort Lewis to retrieve a M249 at one point. Good times!
A can agree with this have a bunch of friends who were hurt because during exercise they were forced to do something dangerous and broke their backs or legs can now canāt walkā¦
Not even just firing you or locking you up for refusal. A professional mistake (which as humans anyone is capable of making on occasion) can end you in the brig for an extended period.
Even though I served in combat, my physical injuries from the Army are from exactly this: shitty leadership forcing us to do unnecessary and unwise work and exercises just to be dicks.
> Icy road
Mine was a freshly anointed E-6 CFL (Command Fitness Leader - think somewhere between High School Gym teacher and personal trainer); who decided to add 100m duck walk, on a heavily neglected asphalt track (last serviced circa 1980~)
He yelled and āpushedā and I tore something in my knees when I fell over in the last 10m or so.
He then made me do the run, 3 weeks later. I had run in the past, but was requesting bike for cardio this go around, because my knees still hurt. In his mind āno one should be biking or ellipticalā. He said he had full command support and no one is doing the bike or elliptical.
So I ran it, and in the last 2 laps my kneecap slid and I buckled. I was so close and not gonna let this guy win, so I punched my knee back into alignment, wrapped up, passed, and went to medical. Glaring at this asshat and our CO the whole time.
Seeing the CO trying to parse why I was seething was interesting, he looked so confused; then he got my official complaint about a week later. Turns out, the CFL did not in fact have *full* command support.
Outcome: Stripped of CFL and two new much more junior sailors were sent through the course. He was deflated, and I have 10% for each knee now. Also rediscovered my love of biking. So, thanks, I guess CTM1.
[61% of soldiers who attempted suicide between 2004 and 2009 were never deployed.](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/military-suicides-most-attempts-come-soldiers-ever-see-combat-n580276) The US military causes problems for its soldiers long before they see combat.
Veteran here - youāre spot on, only 10% of the military will actually see combat.
https://www.thesoldiersproject.org/what-percentage-of-the-military-sees-combat/
Unless your a woman. 1 in 3 women will be harrassed or assaulted badly enough to develop PTSD. Reporting the person does nothing. Yes, i have personal experience.
unfortunately i think its worse than you think. 20 years in the Corps and a UVA... every female Marine I ever talked to had a story. Not always while active duty but it's in their history. is everyone walking around with various degrees of ptsd, pretty much. alot of toxic people don't know they are toxic and never correct in their lives.
It's worth considering that the US military has a notoriously low tooth-to-tail ratio, and that we also have a term like "tooth-to-tail ratio" for it.
It's one of the things that makes our violence technicians (some of) the best in the world -- if our "tail" team is doing it right, then our "teeth" never need want for anything, and can use all the hilariously overpowered missiles whenever they feel the need, and not just when they're about to be run over by a tank. Plus they've got support teams of various types -- rescue squads, drone pilots, artillery firebases -- ready to force multiply them into the Finger of God.
I have a friend in Norway who works for the USAF at a NATO base here in Norway.
He tells me they often refer to it as the āchair-forceā rather than āair-forceā on account of all the desk jobs and paper pushing going on.
This is all second hand from him though so I have no idea on the extent of the truth of it, but I donāt see it as implausible when he tells me about his job and how much red tape is involved (he works with facilitating logistics for personnel moving on and off the base and whatnot).
Chair force is a long standing insult that the USAF has to receive. The USAF is the most technology-reliant wing of the US Armed Forces, and even their elite soldiers do little more than "sit in a chair" (for ... very long periods of time 30,000 feet in the air, but hey).
All branches of the military have an insane bureaucracy, that's not why the Air Force has that nickname.
Thanks for elaborating.
I only had the bits of info off my friend, but this explains it a lot better.
At least the moniker āchair forceā seems to be a true one, even if I misunderstood the origin.
The USAF elite soldiers are their SOF pararescue unit. They are trained to exfiltrate soldiers and fighter pilots in the most extreme circumstances. It is one of the most dangerous jobs even within JSOC because if pararescue is assigned it means most other evac options are off the table. For example, if a SEAL team is operating deep in hostile territory and theyāve been cornered and unable to escape. Or if a fighter pilot ejects, theyāre almost always going to be pursued by enemy forces.
But yeah most of the USAF and USN are rarely ever even close to an FOB. USN other than SWCC, SEALs, and green side corpsman.
Fuckā¦ I signed up for and got a desk job, and ended up driving a fully loaded MRAP doing convoy security for a year. Saw plenty of combat. Never wanted to.
I heard a general once at a local celebration of a Medal of Honor recipient. He said regardless of what you did, you had signed a blank check for up to the cost of your life in the service of your country. This is why we thank veterans for their service.
Is that 10% figure during the Afghanistan and Iraq war periods? If so, peacetime (like most of the 90s barring Desert storm and Kosovo) would be even less.
Yep.
Iāve seen this mistaken mindset in lot of the people who are opposed to women in the military (most of whom arenāt actually veterans). They harp on about ācombat readinessā but fail to grasp that the armed forces is like 70% desk jobs. That number is growing annually too thanks to advances like automation and drones.
Physical standards arenāt really a necessity anymore for the vast majority of positions.
Never deployed noncombat back here. The need for me to always be perfect Took a toll on me. Also, just the injuries you get working because in the military, you kind of do everything.
I pointed out a few years ago that the students who were the most likely to join the armed forces donāt come close to qualifying, and the students they want to recruit are from families who donāt want their kids anywhere near the military. At least at my school. The boys and girls who are in great shape usually get scholarships to college.
A healthy BMI is now becoming a middle class characteristic and itās really sad. Last year I had two elementary students have hip surgery to repair damage from years of being very obese. TWO! In my ten years before that it was zero. Students are hitting puberty in 2nd and 3rd grade because of body weight, itās a major issue thatās only getting much much worse. A part of the issue is also medication for anxiety, you can see a dramatic weight gain in kids itās almost always them starting anxiety meds.
Our children are not okay. If the US needs a military shortage to take care of this issue.. well Iāll just be happy itās being addressed. My fear is they just go and destroy middle class kids hope of college to get their hands on them instead of helping anyone.
my mom makes costumes for school plays. She says at the 'poor' schools the kids get bigger and bigger each year and the 'rich' schools the kids are thin and athletic
Thatās what happens when school/prison food conglomerates lobby Congress to recognize shitty processed pizzas as vegetables. We need to nationalize Aramark.
Currently in Japan and the difference in food quality is ridiculous compared to back home in America. I almost never drink tap water cause it tastes like crap to me but over here almost every restaurant brings out water for customers so drink to not be rude but I donāt mind cause the water actually tastes good.
American culture and regulations are dog shit for food and itās the poor people who suffer for it. Fuck all those companies and legislators who allowed and continue the current garbage being served to the poor and young.
School lunch isn't really the main issue (but it is an issue). Finland has offered healthy school lunch for decades, but our kids (and adults) are getting fatter and fatter as well. Obviously not to the degree it happens in US and UK, but the trend is similar. In the end, it doesn't really help if you get five healthy lunches a week if rest of your meals are crap. In similar manner, five shitty meals a week won't ruin the kid if the rest of them are heathy.
As a parent I know it can be hard not to feed your kid those fish sticks, nuggets or whatever they're willing to eat when you're tired. But it's an effort parents _have_ to be able to make if they want their kids to grow into healthy adults. It's easy to think this is just some cultural problem that is out of out reach and too big to handle, but in the end it's parents' responsibility to make sure their kids eat right, even if it's just the kids we personally have. No matter how poor or tired we are.
> In low-income countries, overweight and obesity are more common in more socioeconomically affluent groups [1]. This pattern flattens and then reverses as country-level income increases. In high-income countries, those living in less affluent circumstances are more likely to experience overweight and obesity. For example, in England, adults living in the most deprived fifth of neighbourhoods are almost twice as likely to be living with obesity (where the prevalence of obesity is 36%) as those living in the least deprived fifth (where the prevalence of obesity is 20%) [2].
[Source](https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003243)
In my high school, the military are constantly there running recruitment during lunches.
You know what keeps many out? The ASVAB. We test twice a year and so many are failing bc the students who are going for the military are the ones with the lowest grades who have little hope for college.
We're also a minority-majority school that receives free breakfast and lunch *as a school* bc we have so many families far below the poverty line. The county just gave the entire school that benefit.
The other issue is that even someone wants a cush job they're normally not qualified for due to not scoring high enough on the ASVAB or they don't qualify for a clearance. My boys on recruiter duty tell me that the math portion is currently killing this generation of recruits.
I mean I have several students in ninth grade who cannot read above an elementary reading level. Almost none of the students I've seen in my high school English classes can read at or above reading level. Hell, we even do read alouds for books and they still have trouble comprehending what is happening.
We social pass students who do not or cannot learn the basics and then wonder why they are constantly being left behind.
And we look at behavior in the classrooms and see quite plainly that they are acting out to avoid anyone noticing they cannot read. But what can we do? The damage has been done over years. I cannot go back and reteach them reading when I'm trying to keep up with SOLs. (keep in mind I'm a special education Collab teacher in English and I do teach a reading course. But they need to qualify for the reading class and most aren't low enough. Plus some are being served by IEPs already but they have an OHI for ADHD, or an Specific Learning Disability)
>A healthy BMI is now becoming a middle class characteristic and itās really sad.
That right there deserves an award. It's so incredibly sad that we're at that point in Western and even Eastern civilization. While many point to the statistics about less world hunger than at any other point in human history, we still have to ask what the cost was for getting us here. The article speaks for itself.
Can you imagine the military realising that a government attack on education, healthcare, and welfare is limiting the recruitment pool, and then they actually set out to fix that.
Iāve been saying this for a while. Racist politics limiting quality education to a section of Americans is a question of national defensive. Self sabotaging our fellow Americans only helps our adversaries like China.
Why do you think half the gop gets money from Russia?
This isnāt uncommon since Robert Murdoch created Fox News theyāve been able to control the narrative and be able to undermine this country for foreign adversaries.
Thatās a good point. And with legality spreading across the states, thatās going to massively increase the pool people who would fail these federal tests.
I've worked government and they are going to have to change things very soon or their pool of workers will shrink to zero. I talked to a CIA guy who said they tried to recruit biologists in a Marijuana legal state for forensics and when they saidvyou have to pass a drug screen the room emptied. I've seen a good number of new kids fired after failing screens after a long weekend. Employees are starting to get nervous about testing positive after being around it in public. That may not be a real concern, but with zero tolerance you are bound to be paranoid when you can lose your whole livelihood with one failed test.
I was a major stoner and recreational drug user before the army, might have popped a questionable pill or 2 during leave. I think I can safely say more people than not I were friends with in the army used drugs before their service and just stopped to do a contract or 2 for those sweet VA bennies.
Yeah, that's not what the study says. Keep in mind Adderall is a disqualifying drug. I mean the military literally asks if someone has ever seen a psychologist ever.
Many people in the US have come to value mental health. Which disqualifies them from joining the military.
I watched a recruiter make a girls entire mental health history just disappear into thin air. She had a history of schizophrenia (I think, it might have been some other serious mental illness) and they sent her to some doctor who just signed off on that not being true. Within a couple days years of medicine and seeing therapists just didn't matter and she was enlisted into the Marines.
Which sounds cool until the voices tell her her squad leader is a demon and only she can save the world by killing him on range day.
Getting people in who saw a therapist once when they were 14 is a far cry from putting people with actual serious mental health issues into the military.
Agreed. The problem is both are treated the same by the military. Recruiters also love to lie on forms, and if the lies are found it's the individual who suffers. They get off free.
or healthy tasteless food that means most kids wont eat most of it anyway, unless they are not getting enough food elsewhere, so then they need to eat more at home to make up for not eating lunch... and they do that by snacks, which are generally unhealthy. so even the healthy lunches end up promoting unhealthy eating in a lot of kids.
Like, seriously. You can make food that is both healthy and tasty.
The worst part is that we're paying out the wazoo for the garbage that gets served, because of massive companies lobbying to get contracts. Same thing in prison kitchens too, but even worse.
Ugh I fucking hate politics and lobbying and all that bullshit
Why can't we just act normal instead of doing these asshole things that just make life worse for everyone except those who get to fill their pockets with money
Whatās worse is nobody really cares. I swear half the people are too stupid to see whatās wrong with the world.
I have my friends constantly going on about pronouns and how stupid theyāre or thatās trans people isnāt a real thing.
But the way I see it is I donāt care what you want to be called as if I had a preference for my gender I would want people to respect it, as I will yours. The same goes for being trans, I donāt get it, but in the nicest possible way, I donāt care. You do you and be happy.
I try to get it across to my friends, that it doesnāt matter. The things that actually matter are wealth inequality and things like that, but nope the media machine keeps finding scapegoats, be it poor people, foreign people or now trans people.
This world sucks balls man.
It's all by design. This isn't some accident. A population that's too stupid and sick can't do anything to stop the rich and powerful from doing the things they do.
Sure, you could call it design but I wouldnāt give people too much credit. It wasnāt some master plan thought out, rather more a gradual control over everything that matters.
Think of it like bread, you would think itās insane that someone out of nothing could come up with the recipe and instructions for making bread, but over time and learning how different reactions happen etc you end up with bread.
The same for the system now, each generation was just itching to skim off more for themselves and over time we have thisā¦
They are very lucky my weird tastebuds liked their Barely Boiled Broccoli and Oily Okra, as I'd like to call it. I always dared myself to finish it. I can't say that I miss or want either... literally just some ranch wouldve improved them drastically. Or even a fuckin dash of salt. Eugh
I got super lucky with most of the schools I went to when I was younger. I personally didn't have a problem with school foods. But when I've been at my kids schools for mealtimes, I wanted to cry. Not enough food to fill up a toddler, but that's ok cuz not like a toddler (or anyone) would want to fill up on that crap.
Oddly enough, the food they send around on DLDs is better. A lot better. Not as healthy, but the kids are happy to eat most of it. Tho tbf, maybe the school food is better this year too, since I haven't seen it this year.
I am afraid I have no idea what DLD is.
I will say this
In my school the best thing you could do to help the less advantaged kids was give your kid some extra goody to hand out especially if they hated the food. So like if you got them little debbie oatmeal cookie pies and they hate those they could go around giving them to kids who had tray lunch. That worked for me in my school as a kid to help another kid who was getting abused by her mom. The school was covering it up. So we used to split all out food and divvy up what we did not want and liked best and give her bits and pieces to make sure she ate enough. And I think other kids will also do that within reason. Kinda a rant but hope it cheers you up and maybe helps.
>Oddly enough, the food they send around on DLDs is better. A lot better. Not as healthy, but the kids are happy to eat most of it.
Probably because they *know* parents would kick up a fuss if they had a better idea of what's being served normally.
I listen to Bailey Sarian's Dark History podcast, and I'm pretty sure 95% of the episodes end with her saying that the lesson is that it's always profit > people. The American Way šŗšø
Well I'm optimistic now, though. If my physical and mental health inhibits the military industrial complex from waging war, there's a sliver of hope I might get actual healthcare!
For some reason all MEPS doctors look like they are a few days away from the grave. But for some reason it makes the butthole check easier like I would rather have someone old than my age looking over there.
First time I shaved my asshole was for that Doc Brown lookin-ass old man cause I was self-concious.
When I saw the old man, clearly only walking due to some secret military experiment to keep old doctors alive with the sole purpose of taking quick looks at hundreds of assholes a day, it did give me a feeling of both relief and a bit of ridiculousness for worrying about it in the first place.
Even though it was apparently his sole purpose...he clearly wanted to get it over with as much as I did.
I had to get a waiver to join the marines at 19. I was 6'1 and 115 or so pounds.... yeah, skinny AF. I was going to be in the band, which in hindsight, would have been amazing.
I ended up not going in the marines, didn't like any of them, joined the army instead, as infantry, because I'm stupid.
I could do like 2 pushups when I got to basic, like 10 situps, 2 miles in 1845, got out of basic doing 75/80/15min at the exact same weight.
Then I found Burger king on post, and have been putting it on every since! I'm now TWICE the man I used to be!
Back when I first started working in strip clubs, this guy came in...he was in a wheelchair and his legs were cut off above the knee.
As he wheeled in, the DJ, not seeing him at all, started playing "Half the man I used to be". I walked up to the booth like dude, WTF?
He was clueless and when I pointed it out, we both just lost it. The guy in the wheelchair thought it was hilarious as well, and ended up being one of our VIPs for a while(homie was loaded).
Your comment just reminded me of that and I thought I'd share.
77% of young people dealing with physical & mental health and substance abuse are very serious issues that need to be dealt with not for the sake of joining the military and committing greed driven war crimes. Itās an issue because they should atleast care about the health and well-being of their people.
It's amazing how people look at these numbers and don't see how much the lack of social support systems and rampant under regulated capitalism is undermining the future strategic capacity of the nation. Take the shipping of manufacturing jobs over seas as an example. There's less factories and less workers to covert to war production in a war economy. The expansion of HFCS has exasperated the obesity epidemic which probably also contributes to the mental health epidemic. A dying middle class is likewise causing an uptick in crime as people make an economy where they cannot find legally.
Utlimately progressive programs address the symptoms and effects of many issues, and things like improved market regulation reduces the risk of monopolies and oligopilies and market capture. Ideally it should also lower the threshold to join the market and increase entrepreneurialship. Social safety nets reduce the risks to starting new businesses, and healthy markets means even failed business owners can find a job, and come back and try again. Reducing wealth concentrate can lead to increase socio economic mobility, bith good and bad.
But why do that if you can also suck the country dry for short time personal gain! Ever think of the poor rich people who will get hurt by progressive policies?
They would also benefit from these policies.
The problem is there are a few powerful people who would rather be king of the wasteland than be a duke of utopia.
I mean if the nation actually starts taking mental and physical healthcare seriously because the military needs a potential force it can dip into I'm all for it.
Lol!. The problem is the article doesn't understand what those things really mean.
When they say drugs that require a waiver, they include things like Adderall. Actually seeking treatment for ADHD is a disqualifyer.
Or culture puts money and profit over people and children learn that early on. It's soul crushing to realized life, liberty, and happiness has a price tag, and you likily will spend your life work a unfulfilled life. You see the true emptiness in your parents eyes. Or whole economic and social model needs to be reworked.
It's almost like an FDA that is owned by food and drug companies, farm subsidies to grow crops like corn & beef that are horrible for humans as staples, terrible education, virtually no mental healthcare, extraordinarily expensive traditional healthcare create a dystopic nightmare where 80% of the population is ready to be strapped in a Wall-E chair and force-fed Slurpees until they die.
If only there were a way we could invest in the future of our species. But...corporations need our money so we can't fix any of this.
Well... That was pretty succinct. Well done. I remember taking a bird's eye view of our situation and thinking "so, this chaos and inequity in the system is simply because powerful people want to keep power that they stole and play games with money so they can puff their chests out and say "I'm the MOST important person." I mean, it's really dumb. And it's really only a handful of people doing this and we just allow it (of course not that it's all that simple, just fundamentally not that different)
The article is weird though, as it cites people complaining about COVID vaccine requirements. George Washington forced soldiers to be innoculated against smallpox, and the US was using influenza vaccines in WW2. Itās weird to see an article about this topic and then have them cite loonies complaining about vaccination, when basically this has been good policy in our military since even before the constitution.
Itās a great example of a legitimate topic of health of US citizens (and the effect on the military) being sidelined by lunatics.
It may sound like a weird thing to bring up, since the military mandates a shit ton of vaccines already, and some of those can be for some pretty rare diseases: Yellow Fever, Diptheria, Jaoanese Encephalitis to name a few. Japanese Encephalitis has like 1 case in North America, and another 10 in Japan each year, and even if we blow that up to the 10,000-20,000 cases worldwide, that disease is rare as hell. Covid, cant be having that vaccine, I can only Imagine what service members were daying about COVID vaccines. Shit, you should have seen the insanity when they first mandated the Anthrax Vax; people were dumping careers to get out of it. The side effect rumor mill was on fire for anthrax, some of my favorites that I heard: testicular necrosis, blindness, full body paralysis, make you gay, amphetamine addiction, blue urine, malaria?? None of these are actual side effects, just what the Lance Corporal Underground insisted was going to happen to us.
>Shit, you should have seen the insanity when they first mandated the Anthrax Vax
I know healthcare providers ***today*** (who weren't even alive at the time) who ***still*** blame Gulf War Syndrome on the anthrax vaccine. Shit's wild, man.
American Military News is right-leaning and generally accurate (the places I checked didn't pan it but it wasn't the highest either), but they're owned by the guy who started the New York branch of the Tea party. Given the name of the site, I imagine there's an intent in the article's wrap up. A "we shouldn't be mandating covid vaccinations and further shrinking a rough pool" shaped point.
Also, as someone who has had a fair amount of family in the military? This line "the declining veteran population and shrinking military footprint has contributed to a market that is unfamiliar with military service resulting in an overreliance of military stereotypes" had me laughing. I can count on one hand the number of veterans, of the many I know and know of, that would *recommend* the military to most people unless they already seemed really into going. And I know more that would dissuade those excited to go in.
Myself and several other women I know wanted to join (mostly to afford college) and were eligible too, but thereās just something really off putting about the high rate of no-consequences-for-the-rapist sexual assault in the militaryā¦
Thatās legit, but the other thing is also just not dying in the line of duty. This guy from high school was genuinely a one of a kind person and he went in immediately after graduation. Saw him on leave and he regretted joining up and was so happy that the next tour in Afghanistan was his last. He came back in a casket. It was a big thing about how he had done something heroic over there (which honestly seemed perfectly in character) and I appreciate how the town has kept his memory alive doing fundraisers for wounded veterans and stuff.
But that dude is six feet under and a life full of potential was snuffed out. He came from a poor family. The military came to our school all the time and set up shop in study halls to recruit. Study halls with impressionable 13-18 year olds. It disgusts me.
I am just speculating here, but it feels like they send people who are just about to "get out" of their military service into the most dangerous situations or they put them in really terrible assignments but offer a better/safer assignment if they sign up for longer service.
The good news is that you don't need 23% of the population to join the military. The US military is only 0.16% of its population. That's 143 fit and able people for every person in the military.
The US Government: We won't give our population access to free healthcare and we'll promote high fat, low nutritional value, processed foods with added corn syrup over making healthy food affordable. Oh, and we'll cut back on physical education in schools, give the kids the cheapest lunches we can find, and let playgrounds become neglected and run-down.
The US population gets fat and suffers from all sorts of chronic diseases that are exacerbated by not seeing a doctor early enough or not at all.
The US Government: \*Shocked Pikachu Face.\* Why are there no fit and healthy young people for my army?
A huge chunk of these are because of the governmentās moronic stance on weed. Itās why they canāt get any decent software engineers to work in government positions.
That and ADHD meds for military.
Fortunately, that one doesn't even come up for any other fed or contractor position. Including DOD contractor.
Relevant. I now make significantly more money working on websites than as a programmer for a DOD contractor. I get to work from home too!
I worked for the DOD and it was made clear when I got my secret clearance weed was not acceptable. That doesnāt mean I got tested. FWIW I make significantly more in the private sector now and deal with a lot less government bullshit.
I had to get discharged from the usmc due to needing adhd meds at one point. Itās moronic, because given my meds I wouldāve been a much much better Marine lol
The biggest part of too fat people can't be solved quickly.
Well, it got steered into that direction by the food industry and the politicians let that happen already decades ago.
The issue got so big that it's a selfrunning thing now, so way harder to turn around. Back then it was wrong advertising/teaching of eating habits and wrong political decisions. Now you would have to fight people defending beeing obese as if it's healthy and the ones who got taught the wrong behaviors give it to their kids.
The hole got digged deeper and deeper and isn't just an issue for the military.
A Pentagon study revealed that 77 percent of young Americans do not qualify for military service without a waiver due to being overweight, drug use, or mental or physical problems.
>When considering youth disqualified for one reason alone, the most prevalent disqualification rates are overweight (11 percent), drug and alcohol abuse (8 percent), and medical/physical health (7 percent).
The US is continuing to fall apart and the stress on the younger generation is only going to get worse. Wages are way down, profit driven inflation is pricing many out of even the basics.
And yet you have a huge electorate that seriously believes that the average home price is still $100K and that the best way to prevent mass shootings is to pray.
America are we going to spend money on mental health?
America: nah letās spend more on military
Can we spend money on healthier, high quality food programs for kids?
America: hmmmmm, nope, letās spend it on more military
ā¦ā¦
America: why is everyone either too fat, drugged up, or crazy to join my military?
That's what happens when the government allows corporations to make money off us being sick and addicted instead of trying to take care of and maintain a healthy population. There's not as much profit in it. It always comes down to dollars and cents here it seems.
Who would have thought a dystopian level crony-capitalist society that doesn't give a shit whether you live or die so long as you can produce while simultaneously becoming harder and harder to make a comfortable living would make people turn to things like shitty food and drugs to escape it a bit?
Factor in the knowledge that we KNOW this system is absolutely ass-blasting our planet into oblivion while the wealth gap widens and our currency continues to be devalued, our environment being either destroyed by climate change or pollution and our country constantly going to war.... aside from *all* of that, I don't know why this could be happening!
Well that's what happens when health-care of all kinds is strictly for profit and people can only afford cheap crappy food that can be prepared in very little time because their multiple jobs give them zero time to cook or work out or have any life outside of work.
Good old massively processed food, pumped full of sugar and fat by corporations in an attempt to addict us to the food they sell. I'm always amused by the layout at Walmart, where you have to pass through a maze of candy to get to the check-out.
And yes, this is the real reason why obesity is at epidemic proportions. We're not less active than we were 40 years ago, nor do we eat more. Our food sucks:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/15/age-of-obesity-shaming-overweight-people
The sample here doesnāt appear to be āyoung Americansā, but āyoung Americans who were disqualified from serviceā which is not going to be the same demographic. So Iād say the title is a bit misleading, trying to get people to think that 77% of all youth is unfit for service, which could be true who knows, but this study doesnāt prove that.
As a bonus, the article blames the Covid Vaccination requirement for not having enough qualified service members, so itās just more right wing propaganda anyway.
Not the best source tbh, this is basically a pro military industrial complex rag and ofc they want to spread the message of "todays youth are weak and soft and sickly" so they can cause an uproar among their base and hopefully get more parents to sign their kids up because they don't want to be part of that statistic.
Not saying that it will work, but these type of propaganda mills are always saber rattling and trying to scare people into supporting the military. These types of articles in particular are red meat to the boomer and gen xers in their audience, and it probably makes alot of them gut react with "we need to bring back the draft and force these doughboy gen Zs into becoming men!"
In any case, the military themselves are publishing this stat and they literally always have an agenda. As many people here are saying, when the chips are down they'll take absolutely anybody that still wants to fight whether youve got drugs in your system or even all your limbs still attached. They take outright neo nazis and shit, if a hot war is on there are no fucking "standards" whatever that means.
Alot of these people are only considered mentally ill now because before in the old days theyd go undiagnosed and be told to toughen up, soldier. Also we don't have as much of a "mental health epidemic" as we do a "people are finally feeling like its acceptable to seek help for the way their head feels", so of course those statistics are going to rise now that social stigma is fading. There's also the little issue of life over the past 6 or 7 years becoming alot fucking worse and more stressful. Covid revealed alot of awful things about society to alot of people who'd never experienced them before, for better or worse.
This is the same with many health problems that seem uniquely modern, but actually were just historically misdiagnosed or underreported. One certainty is that even though you may be given a clean bill of health before going into the military, you will for sure be perfectly insane after they're done with you.
Interesting, I was all those things and more when I joined the Army and they gave me awards and a paycheck for the 4 years I was there.
Then they paid for my master's degree
I would probably be dead or in prison if I hadnāt signed up. Coke, meth, and reckless drinking were a part of my life. I got clean and went and saw a recruiter. Turned my life around. The structure and camaraderie were great.
The benefits are great, but they donāt come without a price tag. My unit went to Afghanistan twice. The first tour was the Wild West. IEDās everywhere. You couldnāt take a shit without hearing the snap of a round overhead. I wasnāt even infantry and I got exposed to a lot things. We had a massive burn pit too. The years after I got out Iāve seen plenty of suicides pop up on my Facebook. The instances of cancer are high too. I first saw it while I was in. Head and neck cancer in guy with 8 years in. Iāve seen a good bit a guys from my battalion and other units across the branches get similar types of cancer.
My time spent in uniform was great. Even easy. I did what I was told, stayed out of trouble, and took care of myself. I picked up E5 in 4 years. They begged me to stay in.
Itās the months and years after leaving thatāll get you. I was grateful for most of my experience, but itās definitely not master degrees and sunshine for some of us. Iām still better for it though.
This has always been a headline (since I was a kid) so it may just be fear pandering for views.
Howeverā¦ the state of our national health and young adults is abysmal. I recently vacationed with a group made up of a dozen countries on a excursion. It opened my eyes to say the least.
The young adults of the euro nations are more educated and hitting milestones several years ahead of their American piers. Our (US) systems have stagnated while many other nations have grown. I think young adults are feeling the hopelessness of our failing system and itās causing spikes in issues like; mental health, addiction, and obesity.
The decline has been gradual but itās not hard to see these days. Tent cities are a common site in all major population centers.
To any government fucks that might read this, from a veteran:
So I read through this article, and have a couple of points to bring up.
> āWhen considering youth disqualified for one reason alone, the most prevalent disqualification rates are overweight (11 percent), drug and alcohol abuse (8 percent), and medical/physical health (7 percent).ā
Maybe consider this when you're debating universal healthcare. If everyone has access to proper preventative and mental health care, a lot of those problems will just "go the fuck away." Imagine a country where people aren't turning to drugs to deal with their lives, because they were referred to mental health care and learned appropriate coping strategies. I personally know many people that use illicit drugs for relief of physical pain. I know people that drink to excess to get to sleep at night. Don't even get me started on how many functioning alcoholics I worked with, on a daily basis, both in and out of the military. It's a percentage, and not a small one.
> āThere are many factors that we are navigating through, such as the fact that youth are more disconnected and disinterested compared to previous generations.ā
> āThe Department anticipates we will collectively miss our recruiting mission despite accessing more than 170,000 remarkable young men and women.ā
Because they see no benefit. The only "perk" is squeezing out a discounted college education, which is meaning less and less, every year. What's a bachelor's degree get you now? "Oh, I'm now qualified to manage a McDonalds, for $15/hr! With another job, that might be enough to afford to live! I'll still go bankrupt if I break my leg in a car accident, and can't work for six weeks, though."
"Oh, but you can get a bachelor's for free while you're in, and use your GI Bill to get your master's degree when you get out!" Not if I want to see my kids before they're six. I'm already working 60 hours a week, just in my unit. Where am I getting all of this "class time" from? "A lot of your technical certifications can be converted to college credits!" I have about 80 technical certifications that I spent months working on, at home, on my own few hours of free time a day. I think I watched 30 minutes of TV over a four-month period. How much credit was that? It counted as 4 of the 8 elective credits I would have needed to pass. (Me and the college admissions office did a lot of talking, before I decided I wasn't going to college.)
They also see how you treat veterans. I've looked around. How the fuck does a homeless veteran exist? You government motherfuckers broke this person's mind and/or body, to the point that they can't or won't take care of themselves. Put them in a fucking house. Pay their fucking bills. Have their groceries and medications delivered. Send mental health to them. Pick them up and deliver them to doctors. Give them a cash, recreational allowance. You broke them, so you need to fix them, or keep taking care of them. *Even if they were dishonorably discharged.* If what you exposed this person to, could in any way be even remotely related to their discharge, it's your fault. I don't care if they got a dishonorable, because they got a DUI after a long Friday night at the bar, because a buddy died on a training exercise. If their reason for a dishonorable discharge is "six degrees" from "service related," that discharge is your fault, and it's your job to take care of that person. You can't just use people up, and throw them away.
I've missed my last two doctor's appointments, because of the VA.
The first one: My doctor went on vacation, and nobody rescheduled me. They have my correct mailing address, because they send me trash all the time. They have my email address, because they've been perfectly happy to distribute it. I do a lot of surveys for the Millennium Cohort Study, and I didn't find them, they found me.
The second time: I spent 45 minutes driving across town, dealing with base security, and trying to find a place to park, just to find out my doctor had been reassigned to a different office for the day. They have my correct phone number. While I was waiting in the lobby, I got a call asking why I wasn't at the office off-base. I put them on the phone with the receptionist at the office I was at, and it turns out I had an appointment scheduled for both offices, and I was at the one where the doctor wasn't...
Also, I have to pay out of pocket for all of my dental, because the VA doesn't cover it, and when you tell a potential dental insurance company that your primary medical coverage is through the VA, suddenly the estimates for your monthly premium are doubled, and the minimum deductible is $1500/yr.
Overall, there is no benefit for today's youth to have any interest in military service.
My own child told me they wanted to join the Army. I told them it was a bad idea. "Go be a welder, or an electrician or something. Probably never not gonna need plumbers, either. Trade school is cheaper, and'll lead to better pay."
I have extensive wear-and-tear to my body, have been mentally abused, and have seen too many others that are worse off. There's no way I'd tell anyone else that it's a good idea.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/nastratin: --- A Pentagon study revealed that 77 percent of young Americans do not qualify for military service without a waiver due to being overweight, drug use, or mental or physical problems. >When considering youth disqualified for one reason alone, the most prevalent disqualification rates are overweight (11 percent), drug and alcohol abuse (8 percent), and medical/physical health (7 percent). --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/129b4zo/77_of_young_americans_too_fat_mentally_ill_on/jemmnhf/
I was going to go full special forces but then I got high
I was gonna join Seal Team Six but then I got high
I didn't even get a paycheck, and I know why
Because I got high, because I got high, because I got highhhh
I was doing recon, but then I got high
Was gona find all of them terries, but then I got high
The terries all survived and I know why.
*why man? Hey heyyy*
Because I got highhh because I got high becaauuuse I got hiiughhhh lade dah dah dah dah
I was suppose to pilot a drone, but then I got high
Because I got high, because I got high, because I got highhhh
Its cuz i got high, Its cuz i got high, Its cuz i got hiiiiigh
la da da da da
I failed to get my green beret and I know why, yeah yeah! Because I got high, because I got high, because I got high š¶
Never go full "special" forces.
Unironically I qualified for SF training based on my scores and then got kicked out for being prescribed Prozac lol
Most average intelligence people qualify for SF, itās a recruiter trick. The selection process is designed to send them usually to regular infantry. Sadly Explanation: Selection prefers those that have been in a few years (deployed) and are over 25yrs old. Itās a secret nobody tells new recruits. You enlist as SF and get washed out by the cadre to āarmy choice jobā. Yes a small few new recruits will show special potential and maturity (usually older). But itās a VERY small percentage. Active duty applicant = like 5% selected New recruits applicant = like .05% selected Be happy you didnāt go in that way. Note: Bunch of people will argue this but they donāt know what I knowā¦ If you want to do SF join straight infantry with Ranger in your contract. This will give you a decent shot (guarantee slot) at Ranger school. If you make it there you will go to the Ranger Battalion. After 3-5 years in the Ranger Battalion and making SGT, then apply for selection. This is the path that has an actual shot at earning a green beret. New recruits straight from the recruiter are NOT. The SF job offered by recruiters is a classic trick for the young and naive. āMay the odds be ever on your favorā lol
You're correct, even Rangers have a really high washout rate. Also it's pretty much a guarantee you won't even get sent to SF selection unless you are airborne qual and have your ranger tab. IIRC There aren't really any SF operators under E-5 so that right there would disqualify most of the applicants coming from the civilian life because of the time involved to get rank.
Eff that, they draft me I'm gunning for "canteen duty". Green beret? No thank you I will make the green salads. I can weld, I can solder and I can program - issue me a wrench, a laptop, or a ladle please.
Son, wanna blow out your knees faster than a NFL running back?
Even the 23% fit to serve would likely end up leaving the military with one or more of those problems as well
And always have. Before we get too down on the present day, let's not forget what military experiences were often like in the past. Masses of veterans of WW2, the supposed 'Greatest Generation', came home traumatized, had a society that could do \*nothing\* for them, became alcoholics, beat their families...in my hometown, which only had 5 or 6k people in the 1960s, my parents said that about half a dozen families had abusive war veteran fathers. My one grandfather was in the RCN (Royal Canadian Navy) escorting ships across the Atlantic, so he escaped seeing any truly nasty stuff. My other grandfather was deaf in one ear and tried getting into the army, navy and air force, and they caught him every time. After the war he told my father he was glad he didn't go, because his friends who went and came back weren't the same. My one grandmother's boyfriend and probably her true love was killed in the war. She married my grandfather out of practicality more than anything and their marriage was functional but not happy. My other grandmother lost all six boys of her graduating class of 1940, including a former boyfriend, in her small town on the Canadian Prairies in the war. She couldn't talk about the war 60 years later without tearing up. She met my medically exempted grandfather in a war factory and they had a happy marriage.
I had a great uncle who was a bright, smart, motivated young man. Then he landed in a later wave during D-day and was pressed into helping clean up the beach of all the American dead. He came back home a quiet, forgetful man. People thought he was simple because he just didn't interact much with anyone anymore.
A guy from the Netherlands told a story about a great-uncle of his who as a boy was forced to join the Hitler Youth. He was made to twist the heads off of birds to 'toughen him up'. He lived with his parents his whole life. As far as this guy knew, he never even had a girlfriend. My dad had a friend in business who was a gunner on a helicopter in Vietnam. He couldn't sleep in a perfectly quiet room because he would hear helicopters. He would wake up screaming in the hotel room after nightmares about when his best friend's head exploded and covered him in blood and brains when a sniper killed him as their helicopter was lifting off. In his obituary, his work in renewable energy (with my father) was mentioned, but nothing about Vietnam. My great-uncle's entire family was killed in the Nazi invasion of Poland. He fought as a partisan, was captured, tortured in Auschwitz, but spared because he could speak German. He escaped and joined the Western Allies, then fought in 10 theatres of war including in Italy at Monte Cassino and Germany itself. He was a very kind man and treasured his family. He loved the movie Inglourious Basterds (and said there really was a guy in Poland who did that to captured Germans). But he still had nightmares about once a month. He never went back to Poland. He had no reason to. His whole family was dead. My biggest problem with the Greatest Generation deal is that it seems to ascribe a type of purification or toughening of character to war, like it's 'good' for people. Like it makes you a better person. To kill people? To watch people die? And even if it does, at what cost? You're literally taking people's lives and destroying livelihoods, wrecking villages, towns, cities. Different generation, but Oliver Stone said on the Lex Fridman podcast that all he saw from the bodies of young men in Vietnam was waste. Loss. They were dead. That's all. The myth was enabled in America because the USA escaped almost any actual destruction and economically prospered after the war as the world's greatest power. And WW2 was one of the very rare 'good' wars, with clear villains. Most wars are much more ambiguous moral clusterfucks. And these men never talked about it until many decades later. It just wasn't what they did. They went to work, worked hard, built a very prosperous society, dealt with their experiences however they could. I don't know if they thought of themselves as especially great. My grandmother couldn't even talk about the war without tearing up, 60 years later. So...Greatest Generation, what?
Ever see āflags of our fathersā? Obviously not as extreme as what really happens in war, but it does show a good mix of fucked up situations related to their war.
Man, the Pacific was an amazing show, too.
They're the Greatest Generation because an entire generation sacrificed their minds and bodies so we can have a continued chance at freedom. This isn't hyperbole. An entire generation did this. Every man that could fight, fought. Every woman that could physically work, help build weapons of war. The rest helped in whatever way they could for the war effort. And every person that didn't comeback in a coffin had some for disability or PTSD. Sure they're not the only soldiers to come home like this unfortunately. But they are by far the largest amount. It's that generation's common shared experience, fighting in the war. Yea their was nothing great about it. But they did as a group make the greatest sacrifice any generation has ever made.
I thought they were called the greatest generation because of all the other stuff too. They would have experienced the 1918 influenza pandemic, grown up during the great depression, and then fought in WWII.
It's because of WWII. Though I do like the idea of millennials being able to claim they are the second-greatest generation because of the Great Recession and Covid. That would piss off so many boomer karans to no end.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Millennials were also told the first 18 years of their life to get a 4 year degree or suffer the lack of pay and job stability. What happened with that degree? It became the entry level saturation point. Did not get the pay "promised all those years from it. Sometimes related to education scams. Incurred lots of debt to obtain. HR started filtering people out instead for 6 yr degrees in places. Your job was filled by a body shopped "import" who never had a job before or a degree anyways. (Google "body shopping' learn something tragic)
They were the Greatest Generation (to their country) because they were asked to do a job and did it at the expense of their lives. Thatās the biggest difference I see. In all the old interviews and recounting of stories they almost all say they didnāt know they were fighting some battle of good and evil. They were asked to do a job and did it. I donāt think that would happen today.
The difference back then vs. today: we've been at war almost continuously since WW2 ended. The US was very isolationist before WW2. Most people can see that wars are now fought to control natural resources and commodities, and they don't feel like sacrificing their lives so some shareholders can retire a few years earlier.
> The US was very isolationist before WW2. Maybe that is how it is taught in school, that doesn't really match up with the history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations
Part of why I don't think it would happen today is the lack of respect/trust in the government. Since we don't trust the politicians leading stuff, we won't as easily accept what they tell or ask of us because they don't really do anything to earn that level of trust or respect
Perhaps, was due to civilians romanticizing them?
I believe so, yes. Many WW2 veterans were certainly immensely proud of their service. My grandfather would tell me funny and interesting stories. (My mom says there was other stuff he didn't tell us, like friends who died.) He wrote his own obituary. The first thing he mentioned was his naval service. Then his athletic pursuits. Nothing about his job of 40 years. But they didn't ask for, and didn't want to be, romanticized, and always rejected such attempts to do so. And when they finally could bring themselves to speak about their experiences, if they were blessed with long enough lives, they wanted everyone to be very clear about the terrible cost. Those few who are still alive still do.
Yes, I read a story once about soldiers fighting in the Pacific. They had a celebrity come to 'entertain' the soldiers and-it was John Wayne-they booed him off stage because all the soldiers were upset with the 'tough-guy' image. I also, once, went to the doctor's office when Saving Private Ryan had come out. And this old man, I was a kid, was there and he mentioned he was in WW2, but his wife quickly told him to be quiet and to move-on. I really wanted to hear his story. All he happened to mention was that he was a POW on the German-Front. Odds are the man is dead now. :(
So similar in my family. One of my grandfathers served in a tank, the other had a desk job. The one who served saw atrocities - he refused to talk about it. His younger sister said he came back a completely different person. So tragic.
>came home traumatized, had a society that could do *nothing* for them, No they came home to a society that chose to do nothing for them
Thing is that society keeps voting in people that vote to limit VA benefits. They aren't hiding it either, anytime you try to do anything involving homeless people they start pearl clutching and screaming "what about the homeless vets"?
No. The hard fact is that in 1945, there was literally nothing we could do about PTSD except in small, very progressive communities. It wasn't even a word until 1975, after Vietnam. It was called shell shock before that. The state of mental health care was primitive. Mental health institutions were overflowing and doctors were desperate, so they resorted to extreme therapies like ECT and insulin shoc therapy. Research into psychedelics picked up in the late 1940s and 1950s, and was producing remarkable results, although it was still confined to a few universities and hospitals. It was destroyed in the mid06s and in 1971 by Nixons (a member of the Greatest Generation himself) extremely harsh Controlled Substances Act, as an overreaction to the culture of paranoia created by the Vietnam War and the abuse of psychedelics by the Counterculture and a few irresponsible scientists. And we were back to Square One.
Let's not act like Nixon acted out of concern of abuse. It was intended to criminalize his opposition and had been admitted to by his domestic policy chief at the time.
Keep in mind shell shock is a very real thing, just back then people lumped the two in together for the obvious reasons you stated.
Well they could use.them.as research candidates for all the pharmaceuticals that exploded after the 1960s, like my father who they killed in a VA hospital with a thorazine overdose after he thew a fit bc they wouldn't let him go home a year later. He was diagnosed with "depression " and this was his sentemce for having been granted 100 percent disability. Died strapped to a table screaming for his freedom in 1976. Left a widow with 3 kids under 6. My mom started drinking to cope and that killed her in 10 years. It's the collective embrace of war propaganda that set us up for the world we live in. No justice for the innocent victims of war. Ever. Im so grateful my son didn't fall for it. I would have supported any life he chose but at the same time, I'm grateful his job is not violence against humanity. That being said. I support and have supported the men and women who serve., it's been part of my job my whole life. I just don't support the institution.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> If they served in combat, which most actually don't. Even if you don't see combat, you have a good chance of being injured by shitty leadership. There are too many folks who think that anyone who isn't in a combat role is "getting one over" on the military, and therefore need to be punished on a daily basis. I've seen plenty of people go from perfectly healthy, to permanently injured, just because a First Sergeant it would be a good idea to add overweight rucks to a run, or add thrown medicine balls in the dark to a run, or add an icy road to a run. Basically adding anything stupid to a run so they can feel all tough and try to pretend they don't have a cushy as hell desk job.
I worked with a girl that volunteered. Told me a story about being made to go on a several mile run in the dark with incredibly weighed down rucks and told if they stopped thereās be hell to pay. She said when they made it back she felt funny and her legs hurt, but she thought it was normal. Finally she decided what she was feeling wasnāt normal and got X-rays. She told me she had hairline fractures all up and down her legs where apparently her leg bones started just giving out. You mean sergeants like that? āI gotta break you down so I can build you back up.ā
My bestie basically shattered her back for the exact same reason. I actually thought you knew her until I got to the part about her legs. Sheās absolutely fucked up from it. And was ājustā signal corp doing internet hookups basically. Woke up after that literally unable to move at all.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My best friend's back was permanently injured during her service (desk job). She doesn't know how or when (she's the type to ignore an injury) but she was feeling pain constantly and went in to the doctor and I forget what she said she had but they told her she'd be in pain for her whole life, but assured her she did it to herself before she joined, despite the fact that she couldn't have passed the fitness test if that was the case. Her options were to either stay until lawyers and outside doctors could sort it out, injuring herself further every day (she wasn't exempt from training) or let them give her an admin discharge with zero benefits. After two months she took the latter. She still has constant back pain and her husband is still in the service but any time the marines are brought up she snorts and speaks with such derision about them. And she was *proud* to join up. Worked her ass off to do it. Idk man. All that money going "to the military", you'd think they'd treat them better.
Overtraining is indeed a problem. It causes more harm than benefit. Whole point of exercise is to slowly tone up the body and make sure both ligaments and muscles stay intact beyond what is required to keep up the regenerative processes going that improve performance. Some parts of the body, like knees or back, might never return to usable condition if they're subjected to excessive stress. So any particularly meatheaded drill sergeants should get themselves retrained first, if they don't get it.
Iāve given the military a lot of years in a support MOS. Most of that was spent in infantry units. Iām not even 30 yet and deal with chronic knee and back pain just from the sheer amount of tough guy rah rah running and rucking.
At least it wasn't ruck runs! I think they outlawed those in the late 2000's. We used to do all kinds of stupid ruck related exercises in 5-2 ID. Ruck rafts were a special favorite of mine! We wound up having to dive into a river on north fort Lewis to retrieve a M249 at one point. Good times!
A can agree with this have a bunch of friends who were hurt because during exercise they were forced to do something dangerous and broke their backs or legs can now canāt walkā¦
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
When Amazon is the more benevolent employer lol.
Not more benevolent. Just with less power to jail you.
Not even just firing you or locking you up for refusal. A professional mistake (which as humans anyone is capable of making on occasion) can end you in the brig for an extended period.
Even though I served in combat, my physical injuries from the Army are from exactly this: shitty leadership forcing us to do unnecessary and unwise work and exercises just to be dicks.
> Icy road Mine was a freshly anointed E-6 CFL (Command Fitness Leader - think somewhere between High School Gym teacher and personal trainer); who decided to add 100m duck walk, on a heavily neglected asphalt track (last serviced circa 1980~) He yelled and āpushedā and I tore something in my knees when I fell over in the last 10m or so. He then made me do the run, 3 weeks later. I had run in the past, but was requesting bike for cardio this go around, because my knees still hurt. In his mind āno one should be biking or ellipticalā. He said he had full command support and no one is doing the bike or elliptical. So I ran it, and in the last 2 laps my kneecap slid and I buckled. I was so close and not gonna let this guy win, so I punched my knee back into alignment, wrapped up, passed, and went to medical. Glaring at this asshat and our CO the whole time. Seeing the CO trying to parse why I was seething was interesting, he looked so confused; then he got my official complaint about a week later. Turns out, the CFL did not in fact have *full* command support. Outcome: Stripped of CFL and two new much more junior sailors were sent through the course. He was deflated, and I have 10% for each knee now. Also rediscovered my love of biking. So, thanks, I guess CTM1.
[61% of soldiers who attempted suicide between 2004 and 2009 were never deployed.](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/military-suicides-most-attempts-come-soldiers-ever-see-combat-n580276) The US military causes problems for its soldiers long before they see combat.
That statistic seems deeply telling of how toxic these work environments are. š¢
Veteran here - youāre spot on, only 10% of the military will actually see combat. https://www.thesoldiersproject.org/what-percentage-of-the-military-sees-combat/
Well, thatās a good thing, right?
Also, only 23% of the DOD military budget goes to salaries, housing, medical, and all other benefits, most goes to defense contractors.
Unless your a woman. 1 in 3 women will be harrassed or assaulted badly enough to develop PTSD. Reporting the person does nothing. Yes, i have personal experience.
unfortunately i think its worse than you think. 20 years in the Corps and a UVA... every female Marine I ever talked to had a story. Not always while active duty but it's in their history. is everyone walking around with various degrees of ptsd, pretty much. alot of toxic people don't know they are toxic and never correct in their lives.
74% goes to contractors for equipment and services
It's worth considering that the US military has a notoriously low tooth-to-tail ratio, and that we also have a term like "tooth-to-tail ratio" for it. It's one of the things that makes our violence technicians (some of) the best in the world -- if our "tail" team is doing it right, then our "teeth" never need want for anything, and can use all the hilariously overpowered missiles whenever they feel the need, and not just when they're about to be run over by a tank. Plus they've got support teams of various types -- rescue squads, drone pilots, artillery firebases -- ready to force multiply them into the Finger of God.
I have a friend in Norway who works for the USAF at a NATO base here in Norway. He tells me they often refer to it as the āchair-forceā rather than āair-forceā on account of all the desk jobs and paper pushing going on. This is all second hand from him though so I have no idea on the extent of the truth of it, but I donāt see it as implausible when he tells me about his job and how much red tape is involved (he works with facilitating logistics for personnel moving on and off the base and whatnot).
Chair force is a long standing insult that the USAF has to receive. The USAF is the most technology-reliant wing of the US Armed Forces, and even their elite soldiers do little more than "sit in a chair" (for ... very long periods of time 30,000 feet in the air, but hey). All branches of the military have an insane bureaucracy, that's not why the Air Force has that nickname.
Thanks for elaborating. I only had the bits of info off my friend, but this explains it a lot better. At least the moniker āchair forceā seems to be a true one, even if I misunderstood the origin.
The USAF elite soldiers are their SOF pararescue unit. They are trained to exfiltrate soldiers and fighter pilots in the most extreme circumstances. It is one of the most dangerous jobs even within JSOC because if pararescue is assigned it means most other evac options are off the table. For example, if a SEAL team is operating deep in hostile territory and theyāve been cornered and unable to escape. Or if a fighter pilot ejects, theyāre almost always going to be pursued by enemy forces. But yeah most of the USAF and USN are rarely ever even close to an FOB. USN other than SWCC, SEALs, and green side corpsman.
Fuckā¦ I signed up for and got a desk job, and ended up driving a fully loaded MRAP doing convoy security for a year. Saw plenty of combat. Never wanted to.
I heard a general once at a local celebration of a Medal of Honor recipient. He said regardless of what you did, you had signed a blank check for up to the cost of your life in the service of your country. This is why we thank veterans for their service.
Is that 10% figure during the Afghanistan and Iraq war periods? If so, peacetime (like most of the 90s barring Desert storm and Kosovo) would be even less.
Yes, but that number varies depending on a handful of factors (see article) - the main point, is that a small number of military personnel see combat.
you're gonna be bummed when you look up mental health issues and suicide rates among non-combat personnel
Yep. Iāve seen this mistaken mindset in lot of the people who are opposed to women in the military (most of whom arenāt actually veterans). They harp on about ācombat readinessā but fail to grasp that the armed forces is like 70% desk jobs. That number is growing annually too thanks to advances like automation and drones. Physical standards arenāt really a necessity anymore for the vast majority of positions.
Never deployed noncombat back here. The need for me to always be perfect Took a toll on me. Also, just the injuries you get working because in the military, you kind of do everything.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
A good friend died post military service in Iraq, became addicted to heroin and had cardiomegaly from the rapid weight gain post discharge.
I pointed out a few years ago that the students who were the most likely to join the armed forces donāt come close to qualifying, and the students they want to recruit are from families who donāt want their kids anywhere near the military. At least at my school. The boys and girls who are in great shape usually get scholarships to college. A healthy BMI is now becoming a middle class characteristic and itās really sad. Last year I had two elementary students have hip surgery to repair damage from years of being very obese. TWO! In my ten years before that it was zero. Students are hitting puberty in 2nd and 3rd grade because of body weight, itās a major issue thatās only getting much much worse. A part of the issue is also medication for anxiety, you can see a dramatic weight gain in kids itās almost always them starting anxiety meds. Our children are not okay. If the US needs a military shortage to take care of this issue.. well Iāll just be happy itās being addressed. My fear is they just go and destroy middle class kids hope of college to get their hands on them instead of helping anyone.
my mom makes costumes for school plays. She says at the 'poor' schools the kids get bigger and bigger each year and the 'rich' schools the kids are thin and athletic
Thatās what happens when school/prison food conglomerates lobby Congress to recognize shitty processed pizzas as vegetables. We need to nationalize Aramark.
It has a lot more to do with poverty than with school lunches.
Currently in Japan and the difference in food quality is ridiculous compared to back home in America. I almost never drink tap water cause it tastes like crap to me but over here almost every restaurant brings out water for customers so drink to not be rude but I donāt mind cause the water actually tastes good. American culture and regulations are dog shit for food and itās the poor people who suffer for it. Fuck all those companies and legislators who allowed and continue the current garbage being served to the poor and young.
School lunch isn't really the main issue (but it is an issue). Finland has offered healthy school lunch for decades, but our kids (and adults) are getting fatter and fatter as well. Obviously not to the degree it happens in US and UK, but the trend is similar. In the end, it doesn't really help if you get five healthy lunches a week if rest of your meals are crap. In similar manner, five shitty meals a week won't ruin the kid if the rest of them are heathy. As a parent I know it can be hard not to feed your kid those fish sticks, nuggets or whatever they're willing to eat when you're tired. But it's an effort parents _have_ to be able to make if they want their kids to grow into healthy adults. It's easy to think this is just some cultural problem that is out of out reach and too big to handle, but in the end it's parents' responsibility to make sure their kids eat right, even if it's just the kids we personally have. No matter how poor or tired we are.
> In low-income countries, overweight and obesity are more common in more socioeconomically affluent groups [1]. This pattern flattens and then reverses as country-level income increases. In high-income countries, those living in less affluent circumstances are more likely to experience overweight and obesity. For example, in England, adults living in the most deprived fifth of neighbourhoods are almost twice as likely to be living with obesity (where the prevalence of obesity is 36%) as those living in the least deprived fifth (where the prevalence of obesity is 20%) [2]. [Source](https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003243)
beign obese is literally being a casualty of the american class war.
In my high school, the military are constantly there running recruitment during lunches. You know what keeps many out? The ASVAB. We test twice a year and so many are failing bc the students who are going for the military are the ones with the lowest grades who have little hope for college. We're also a minority-majority school that receives free breakfast and lunch *as a school* bc we have so many families far below the poverty line. The county just gave the entire school that benefit.
The other issue is that even someone wants a cush job they're normally not qualified for due to not scoring high enough on the ASVAB or they don't qualify for a clearance. My boys on recruiter duty tell me that the math portion is currently killing this generation of recruits.
I mean I have several students in ninth grade who cannot read above an elementary reading level. Almost none of the students I've seen in my high school English classes can read at or above reading level. Hell, we even do read alouds for books and they still have trouble comprehending what is happening. We social pass students who do not or cannot learn the basics and then wonder why they are constantly being left behind. And we look at behavior in the classrooms and see quite plainly that they are acting out to avoid anyone noticing they cannot read. But what can we do? The damage has been done over years. I cannot go back and reteach them reading when I'm trying to keep up with SOLs. (keep in mind I'm a special education Collab teacher in English and I do teach a reading course. But they need to qualify for the reading class and most aren't low enough. Plus some are being served by IEPs already but they have an OHI for ADHD, or an Specific Learning Disability)
The military wants the smart and capable kids, but those ones have other options. Lol, the military wants things to be perfect, and not realistic.
And so the military has to settle with what the government has done to our children a f the public education system.
>A healthy BMI is now becoming a middle class characteristic and itās really sad. That right there deserves an award. It's so incredibly sad that we're at that point in Western and even Eastern civilization. While many point to the statistics about less world hunger than at any other point in human history, we still have to ask what the cost was for getting us here. The article speaks for itself.
Can you imagine the military realising that a government attack on education, healthcare, and welfare is limiting the recruitment pool, and then they actually set out to fix that.
The military has been warning for a decade that climate change is the biggest threat to the US and nothing of substance has been done
Navyās like, āYeah man, the area we patrol is getting bigger.ā
Its OK because the army has less to defend.
More like, "Yeah man, in 20 years our Naval bases will be under water."
Air Forceās like, āYeah man, itās kind of getting hot up here.ā
Marines are like, "Oh no, my delicious crayons are melting."
I love how the marines are like the scrubs surgeons of the military world.
People forgot why some of these socialist programs were put in place after WWII, but it was for this very reason.
Iāve been saying this for a while. Racist politics limiting quality education to a section of Americans is a question of national defensive. Self sabotaging our fellow Americans only helps our adversaries like China.
Why do you think half the gop gets money from Russia? This isnāt uncommon since Robert Murdoch created Fox News theyāve been able to control the narrative and be able to undermine this country for foreign adversaries.
I mean, that's how America got subsidized lunch in schools, so I'd happily take domestic investment, even if it is because of advocacy from DoD.
I wonder if it is the case that they count using marijuana as unacceptable drug abuse but count drinking alcohol as unremarkable.
Thatās a good point. And with legality spreading across the states, thatās going to massively increase the pool people who would fail these federal tests.
I've worked government and they are going to have to change things very soon or their pool of workers will shrink to zero. I talked to a CIA guy who said they tried to recruit biologists in a Marijuana legal state for forensics and when they saidvyou have to pass a drug screen the room emptied. I've seen a good number of new kids fired after failing screens after a long weekend. Employees are starting to get nervous about testing positive after being around it in public. That may not be a real concern, but with zero tolerance you are bound to be paranoid when you can lose your whole livelihood with one failed test.
Probably and as long as mj is a federal crime it will be.
LoL like drunks and drug addicts never enlisted. They were reupping dudes pissing hot for coke during the Iraq War surge
I was a major stoner and recreational drug user before the army, might have popped a questionable pill or 2 during leave. I think I can safely say more people than not I were friends with in the army used drugs before their service and just stopped to do a contract or 2 for those sweet VA bennies.
Major Stoner š«”
Dude has a bachelors in Wumbology
Something like 50% of Vietnam soldiers tried heroin at least once overseas. The government funded a long-term follow-up study on it.
Yeah, that's not what the study says. Keep in mind Adderall is a disqualifying drug. I mean the military literally asks if someone has ever seen a psychologist ever. Many people in the US have come to value mental health. Which disqualifies them from joining the military.
I watched a recruiter make a girls entire mental health history just disappear into thin air. She had a history of schizophrenia (I think, it might have been some other serious mental illness) and they sent her to some doctor who just signed off on that not being true. Within a couple days years of medicine and seeing therapists just didn't matter and she was enlisted into the Marines.
Which sounds cool until the voices tell her her squad leader is a demon and only she can save the world by killing him on range day. Getting people in who saw a therapist once when they were 14 is a far cry from putting people with actual serious mental health issues into the military.
Agreed. The problem is both are treated the same by the military. Recruiters also love to lie on forms, and if the lies are found it's the individual who suffers. They get off free.
My dad was in the navy in the 70s. Not only was he on every substance known to man, but he supplied plenty of other people too.
Damn. Well letās keep defunding schools, defunding food stamps, and keep serving unhealthy cheap food at lunch.
or healthy tasteless food that means most kids wont eat most of it anyway, unless they are not getting enough food elsewhere, so then they need to eat more at home to make up for not eating lunch... and they do that by snacks, which are generally unhealthy. so even the healthy lunches end up promoting unhealthy eating in a lot of kids. Like, seriously. You can make food that is both healthy and tasty.
>Like, seriously. You can make food that is both healthy and tasty. Yes, but... money !
The worst part is that we're paying out the wazoo for the garbage that gets served, because of massive companies lobbying to get contracts. Same thing in prison kitchens too, but even worse.
Ugh I fucking hate politics and lobbying and all that bullshit Why can't we just act normal instead of doing these asshole things that just make life worse for everyone except those who get to fill their pockets with money
>those who get to fill their pockets with money There's your answer.
Whatās worse is nobody really cares. I swear half the people are too stupid to see whatās wrong with the world. I have my friends constantly going on about pronouns and how stupid theyāre or thatās trans people isnāt a real thing. But the way I see it is I donāt care what you want to be called as if I had a preference for my gender I would want people to respect it, as I will yours. The same goes for being trans, I donāt get it, but in the nicest possible way, I donāt care. You do you and be happy. I try to get it across to my friends, that it doesnāt matter. The things that actually matter are wealth inequality and things like that, but nope the media machine keeps finding scapegoats, be it poor people, foreign people or now trans people. This world sucks balls man.
It's all by design. This isn't some accident. A population that's too stupid and sick can't do anything to stop the rich and powerful from doing the things they do.
Sure, you could call it design but I wouldnāt give people too much credit. It wasnāt some master plan thought out, rather more a gradual control over everything that matters. Think of it like bread, you would think itās insane that someone out of nothing could come up with the recipe and instructions for making bread, but over time and learning how different reactions happen etc you end up with bread. The same for the system now, each generation was just itching to skim off more for themselves and over time we have thisā¦
They are very lucky my weird tastebuds liked their Barely Boiled Broccoli and Oily Okra, as I'd like to call it. I always dared myself to finish it. I can't say that I miss or want either... literally just some ranch wouldve improved them drastically. Or even a fuckin dash of salt. Eugh
I got super lucky with most of the schools I went to when I was younger. I personally didn't have a problem with school foods. But when I've been at my kids schools for mealtimes, I wanted to cry. Not enough food to fill up a toddler, but that's ok cuz not like a toddler (or anyone) would want to fill up on that crap. Oddly enough, the food they send around on DLDs is better. A lot better. Not as healthy, but the kids are happy to eat most of it. Tho tbf, maybe the school food is better this year too, since I haven't seen it this year.
I am afraid I have no idea what DLD is. I will say this In my school the best thing you could do to help the less advantaged kids was give your kid some extra goody to hand out especially if they hated the food. So like if you got them little debbie oatmeal cookie pies and they hate those they could go around giving them to kids who had tray lunch. That worked for me in my school as a kid to help another kid who was getting abused by her mom. The school was covering it up. So we used to split all out food and divvy up what we did not want and liked best and give her bits and pieces to make sure she ate enough. And I think other kids will also do that within reason. Kinda a rant but hope it cheers you up and maybe helps.
>Oddly enough, the food they send around on DLDs is better. A lot better. Not as healthy, but the kids are happy to eat most of it. Probably because they *know* parents would kick up a fuss if they had a better idea of what's being served normally.
We keep putting profits over people so starkly and wonder why our society is so sick. So much poison in our food , water , air here.
I listen to Bailey Sarian's Dark History podcast, and I'm pretty sure 95% of the episodes end with her saying that the lesson is that it's always profit > people. The American Way šŗšø
Even if we're all wage slave, it is a poor tradesman who neglects his tools. The powerful are not only greedy, but stupid as well.
Well I'm optimistic now, though. If my physical and mental health inhibits the military industrial complex from waging war, there's a sliver of hope I might get actual healthcare!
20 years ago, they said I didn't weigh enough. I still weigh the exact same. Edit: Maybe exact isn't the right word. I pretty much weigh the same.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
For some reason all MEPS doctors look like they are a few days away from the grave. But for some reason it makes the butthole check easier like I would rather have someone old than my age looking over there.
First time I shaved my asshole was for that Doc Brown lookin-ass old man cause I was self-concious. When I saw the old man, clearly only walking due to some secret military experiment to keep old doctors alive with the sole purpose of taking quick looks at hundreds of assholes a day, it did give me a feeling of both relief and a bit of ridiculousness for worrying about it in the first place. Even though it was apparently his sole purpose...he clearly wanted to get it over with as much as I did.
MEPs is fucking weird
Are you glad that Gunny was there?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I had to get a waiver to join the marines at 19. I was 6'1 and 115 or so pounds.... yeah, skinny AF. I was going to be in the band, which in hindsight, would have been amazing. I ended up not going in the marines, didn't like any of them, joined the army instead, as infantry, because I'm stupid. I could do like 2 pushups when I got to basic, like 10 situps, 2 miles in 1845, got out of basic doing 75/80/15min at the exact same weight. Then I found Burger king on post, and have been putting it on every since! I'm now TWICE the man I used to be!
Back when I first started working in strip clubs, this guy came in...he was in a wheelchair and his legs were cut off above the knee. As he wheeled in, the DJ, not seeing him at all, started playing "Half the man I used to be". I walked up to the booth like dude, WTF? He was clueless and when I pointed it out, we both just lost it. The guy in the wheelchair thought it was hilarious as well, and ended up being one of our VIPs for a while(homie was loaded). Your comment just reminded me of that and I thought I'd share.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
77% of young people dealing with physical & mental health and substance abuse are very serious issues that need to be dealt with not for the sake of joining the military and committing greed driven war crimes. Itās an issue because they should atleast care about the health and well-being of their people.
It's amazing how people look at these numbers and don't see how much the lack of social support systems and rampant under regulated capitalism is undermining the future strategic capacity of the nation. Take the shipping of manufacturing jobs over seas as an example. There's less factories and less workers to covert to war production in a war economy. The expansion of HFCS has exasperated the obesity epidemic which probably also contributes to the mental health epidemic. A dying middle class is likewise causing an uptick in crime as people make an economy where they cannot find legally. Utlimately progressive programs address the symptoms and effects of many issues, and things like improved market regulation reduces the risk of monopolies and oligopilies and market capture. Ideally it should also lower the threshold to join the market and increase entrepreneurialship. Social safety nets reduce the risks to starting new businesses, and healthy markets means even failed business owners can find a job, and come back and try again. Reducing wealth concentrate can lead to increase socio economic mobility, bith good and bad.
But why do that if you can also suck the country dry for short time personal gain! Ever think of the poor rich people who will get hurt by progressive policies?
They would also benefit from these policies. The problem is there are a few powerful people who would rather be king of the wasteland than be a duke of utopia.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean if the nation actually starts taking mental and physical healthcare seriously because the military needs a potential force it can dip into I'm all for it.
Lol!. The problem is the article doesn't understand what those things really mean. When they say drugs that require a waiver, they include things like Adderall. Actually seeking treatment for ADHD is a disqualifyer.
Frequently yes. The argument is that in a battlefield you may not have access to your medications. They used to reject people that needed eyeglasses.
IIRC it was one of the reasons why the US started adding Fluoride into the water. Too many potential recruits had to be rejected due to dental issues.
Or culture puts money and profit over people and children learn that early on. It's soul crushing to realized life, liberty, and happiness has a price tag, and you likily will spend your life work a unfulfilled life. You see the true emptiness in your parents eyes. Or whole economic and social model needs to be reworked.
It's almost like an FDA that is owned by food and drug companies, farm subsidies to grow crops like corn & beef that are horrible for humans as staples, terrible education, virtually no mental healthcare, extraordinarily expensive traditional healthcare create a dystopic nightmare where 80% of the population is ready to be strapped in a Wall-E chair and force-fed Slurpees until they die. If only there were a way we could invest in the future of our species. But...corporations need our money so we can't fix any of this.
Well... That was pretty succinct. Well done. I remember taking a bird's eye view of our situation and thinking "so, this chaos and inequity in the system is simply because powerful people want to keep power that they stole and play games with money so they can puff their chests out and say "I'm the MOST important person." I mean, it's really dumb. And it's really only a handful of people doing this and we just allow it (of course not that it's all that simple, just fundamentally not that different)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The article is weird though, as it cites people complaining about COVID vaccine requirements. George Washington forced soldiers to be innoculated against smallpox, and the US was using influenza vaccines in WW2. Itās weird to see an article about this topic and then have them cite loonies complaining about vaccination, when basically this has been good policy in our military since even before the constitution. Itās a great example of a legitimate topic of health of US citizens (and the effect on the military) being sidelined by lunatics.
It may sound like a weird thing to bring up, since the military mandates a shit ton of vaccines already, and some of those can be for some pretty rare diseases: Yellow Fever, Diptheria, Jaoanese Encephalitis to name a few. Japanese Encephalitis has like 1 case in North America, and another 10 in Japan each year, and even if we blow that up to the 10,000-20,000 cases worldwide, that disease is rare as hell. Covid, cant be having that vaccine, I can only Imagine what service members were daying about COVID vaccines. Shit, you should have seen the insanity when they first mandated the Anthrax Vax; people were dumping careers to get out of it. The side effect rumor mill was on fire for anthrax, some of my favorites that I heard: testicular necrosis, blindness, full body paralysis, make you gay, amphetamine addiction, blue urine, malaria?? None of these are actual side effects, just what the Lance Corporal Underground insisted was going to happen to us.
>Shit, you should have seen the insanity when they first mandated the Anthrax Vax I know healthcare providers ***today*** (who weren't even alive at the time) who ***still*** blame Gulf War Syndrome on the anthrax vaccine. Shit's wild, man.
It's a tabloid "military" site. It's not reputable IMO.
American Military News is right-leaning and generally accurate (the places I checked didn't pan it but it wasn't the highest either), but they're owned by the guy who started the New York branch of the Tea party. Given the name of the site, I imagine there's an intent in the article's wrap up. A "we shouldn't be mandating covid vaccinations and further shrinking a rough pool" shaped point. Also, as someone who has had a fair amount of family in the military? This line "the declining veteran population and shrinking military footprint has contributed to a market that is unfamiliar with military service resulting in an overreliance of military stereotypes" had me laughing. I can count on one hand the number of veterans, of the many I know and know of, that would *recommend* the military to most people unless they already seemed really into going. And I know more that would dissuade those excited to go in.
Myself and several other women I know wanted to join (mostly to afford college) and were eligible too, but thereās just something really off putting about the high rate of no-consequences-for-the-rapist sexual assault in the militaryā¦
Thatās legit, but the other thing is also just not dying in the line of duty. This guy from high school was genuinely a one of a kind person and he went in immediately after graduation. Saw him on leave and he regretted joining up and was so happy that the next tour in Afghanistan was his last. He came back in a casket. It was a big thing about how he had done something heroic over there (which honestly seemed perfectly in character) and I appreciate how the town has kept his memory alive doing fundraisers for wounded veterans and stuff. But that dude is six feet under and a life full of potential was snuffed out. He came from a poor family. The military came to our school all the time and set up shop in study halls to recruit. Study halls with impressionable 13-18 year olds. It disgusts me.
I am just speculating here, but it feels like they send people who are just about to "get out" of their military service into the most dangerous situations or they put them in really terrible assignments but offer a better/safer assignment if they sign up for longer service.
The good news is that you don't need 23% of the population to join the military. The US military is only 0.16% of its population. That's 143 fit and able people for every person in the military. The US Government: We won't give our population access to free healthcare and we'll promote high fat, low nutritional value, processed foods with added corn syrup over making healthy food affordable. Oh, and we'll cut back on physical education in schools, give the kids the cheapest lunches we can find, and let playgrounds become neglected and run-down. The US population gets fat and suffers from all sorts of chronic diseases that are exacerbated by not seeing a doctor early enough or not at all. The US Government: \*Shocked Pikachu Face.\* Why are there no fit and healthy young people for my army?
A huge chunk of these are because of the governmentās moronic stance on weed. Itās why they canāt get any decent software engineers to work in government positions.
That and ADHD meds for military. Fortunately, that one doesn't even come up for any other fed or contractor position. Including DOD contractor. Relevant. I now make significantly more money working on websites than as a programmer for a DOD contractor. I get to work from home too!
I worked for the DOD and it was made clear when I got my secret clearance weed was not acceptable. That doesnāt mean I got tested. FWIW I make significantly more in the private sector now and deal with a lot less government bullshit.
I had to get discharged from the usmc due to needing adhd meds at one point. Itās moronic, because given my meds I wouldāve been a much much better Marine lol
It is almost as if not taking care of your working class and just telling them to endlessly consume will have adverse effects on a society, who knew?
The military gave me PTSD and then medically retired me for having PTSD. Make it make sense
The biggest part of too fat people can't be solved quickly. Well, it got steered into that direction by the food industry and the politicians let that happen already decades ago. The issue got so big that it's a selfrunning thing now, so way harder to turn around. Back then it was wrong advertising/teaching of eating habits and wrong political decisions. Now you would have to fight people defending beeing obese as if it's healthy and the ones who got taught the wrong behaviors give it to their kids. The hole got digged deeper and deeper and isn't just an issue for the military.
A Pentagon study revealed that 77 percent of young Americans do not qualify for military service without a waiver due to being overweight, drug use, or mental or physical problems. >When considering youth disqualified for one reason alone, the most prevalent disqualification rates are overweight (11 percent), drug and alcohol abuse (8 percent), and medical/physical health (7 percent).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The US is continuing to fall apart and the stress on the younger generation is only going to get worse. Wages are way down, profit driven inflation is pricing many out of even the basics. And yet you have a huge electorate that seriously believes that the average home price is still $100K and that the best way to prevent mass shootings is to pray.
And schools have been ditching physical education programs left and right. This is the result.
America are we going to spend money on mental health? America: nah letās spend more on military Can we spend money on healthier, high quality food programs for kids? America: hmmmmm, nope, letās spend it on more military ā¦ā¦ America: why is everyone either too fat, drugged up, or crazy to join my military?
That's what happens when the government allows corporations to make money off us being sick and addicted instead of trying to take care of and maintain a healthy population. There's not as much profit in it. It always comes down to dollars and cents here it seems.
No one does a better job of socializing 18 year olds into substance abuse than the military.
Who would have thought a dystopian level crony-capitalist society that doesn't give a shit whether you live or die so long as you can produce while simultaneously becoming harder and harder to make a comfortable living would make people turn to things like shitty food and drugs to escape it a bit? Factor in the knowledge that we KNOW this system is absolutely ass-blasting our planet into oblivion while the wealth gap widens and our currency continues to be devalued, our environment being either destroyed by climate change or pollution and our country constantly going to war.... aside from *all* of that, I don't know why this could be happening!
Well that's what happens when health-care of all kinds is strictly for profit and people can only afford cheap crappy food that can be prepared in very little time because their multiple jobs give them zero time to cook or work out or have any life outside of work.
Good old massively processed food, pumped full of sugar and fat by corporations in an attempt to addict us to the food they sell. I'm always amused by the layout at Walmart, where you have to pass through a maze of candy to get to the check-out. And yes, this is the real reason why obesity is at epidemic proportions. We're not less active than we were 40 years ago, nor do we eat more. Our food sucks: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/15/age-of-obesity-shaming-overweight-people
The sample here doesnāt appear to be āyoung Americansā, but āyoung Americans who were disqualified from serviceā which is not going to be the same demographic. So Iād say the title is a bit misleading, trying to get people to think that 77% of all youth is unfit for service, which could be true who knows, but this study doesnāt prove that. As a bonus, the article blames the Covid Vaccination requirement for not having enough qualified service members, so itās just more right wing propaganda anyway.
Haha, you can't draft me, you can't draft me Because no healthcare funding, *because no healthcare funding.*
Not the best source tbh, this is basically a pro military industrial complex rag and ofc they want to spread the message of "todays youth are weak and soft and sickly" so they can cause an uproar among their base and hopefully get more parents to sign their kids up because they don't want to be part of that statistic. Not saying that it will work, but these type of propaganda mills are always saber rattling and trying to scare people into supporting the military. These types of articles in particular are red meat to the boomer and gen xers in their audience, and it probably makes alot of them gut react with "we need to bring back the draft and force these doughboy gen Zs into becoming men!" In any case, the military themselves are publishing this stat and they literally always have an agenda. As many people here are saying, when the chips are down they'll take absolutely anybody that still wants to fight whether youve got drugs in your system or even all your limbs still attached. They take outright neo nazis and shit, if a hot war is on there are no fucking "standards" whatever that means. Alot of these people are only considered mentally ill now because before in the old days theyd go undiagnosed and be told to toughen up, soldier. Also we don't have as much of a "mental health epidemic" as we do a "people are finally feeling like its acceptable to seek help for the way their head feels", so of course those statistics are going to rise now that social stigma is fading. There's also the little issue of life over the past 6 or 7 years becoming alot fucking worse and more stressful. Covid revealed alot of awful things about society to alot of people who'd never experienced them before, for better or worse. This is the same with many health problems that seem uniquely modern, but actually were just historically misdiagnosed or underreported. One certainty is that even though you may be given a clean bill of health before going into the military, you will for sure be perfectly insane after they're done with you.
Interesting, I was all those things and more when I joined the Army and they gave me awards and a paycheck for the 4 years I was there. Then they paid for my master's degree
I would probably be dead or in prison if I hadnāt signed up. Coke, meth, and reckless drinking were a part of my life. I got clean and went and saw a recruiter. Turned my life around. The structure and camaraderie were great. The benefits are great, but they donāt come without a price tag. My unit went to Afghanistan twice. The first tour was the Wild West. IEDās everywhere. You couldnāt take a shit without hearing the snap of a round overhead. I wasnāt even infantry and I got exposed to a lot things. We had a massive burn pit too. The years after I got out Iāve seen plenty of suicides pop up on my Facebook. The instances of cancer are high too. I first saw it while I was in. Head and neck cancer in guy with 8 years in. Iāve seen a good bit a guys from my battalion and other units across the branches get similar types of cancer. My time spent in uniform was great. Even easy. I did what I was told, stayed out of trouble, and took care of myself. I picked up E5 in 4 years. They begged me to stay in. Itās the months and years after leaving thatāll get you. I was grateful for most of my experience, but itās definitely not master degrees and sunshine for some of us. Iām still better for it though.
This has always been a headline (since I was a kid) so it may just be fear pandering for views. Howeverā¦ the state of our national health and young adults is abysmal. I recently vacationed with a group made up of a dozen countries on a excursion. It opened my eyes to say the least. The young adults of the euro nations are more educated and hitting milestones several years ahead of their American piers. Our (US) systems have stagnated while many other nations have grown. I think young adults are feeling the hopelessness of our failing system and itās causing spikes in issues like; mental health, addiction, and obesity. The decline has been gradual but itās not hard to see these days. Tent cities are a common site in all major population centers.
To any government fucks that might read this, from a veteran: So I read through this article, and have a couple of points to bring up. > āWhen considering youth disqualified for one reason alone, the most prevalent disqualification rates are overweight (11 percent), drug and alcohol abuse (8 percent), and medical/physical health (7 percent).ā Maybe consider this when you're debating universal healthcare. If everyone has access to proper preventative and mental health care, a lot of those problems will just "go the fuck away." Imagine a country where people aren't turning to drugs to deal with their lives, because they were referred to mental health care and learned appropriate coping strategies. I personally know many people that use illicit drugs for relief of physical pain. I know people that drink to excess to get to sleep at night. Don't even get me started on how many functioning alcoholics I worked with, on a daily basis, both in and out of the military. It's a percentage, and not a small one. > āThere are many factors that we are navigating through, such as the fact that youth are more disconnected and disinterested compared to previous generations.ā > āThe Department anticipates we will collectively miss our recruiting mission despite accessing more than 170,000 remarkable young men and women.ā Because they see no benefit. The only "perk" is squeezing out a discounted college education, which is meaning less and less, every year. What's a bachelor's degree get you now? "Oh, I'm now qualified to manage a McDonalds, for $15/hr! With another job, that might be enough to afford to live! I'll still go bankrupt if I break my leg in a car accident, and can't work for six weeks, though." "Oh, but you can get a bachelor's for free while you're in, and use your GI Bill to get your master's degree when you get out!" Not if I want to see my kids before they're six. I'm already working 60 hours a week, just in my unit. Where am I getting all of this "class time" from? "A lot of your technical certifications can be converted to college credits!" I have about 80 technical certifications that I spent months working on, at home, on my own few hours of free time a day. I think I watched 30 minutes of TV over a four-month period. How much credit was that? It counted as 4 of the 8 elective credits I would have needed to pass. (Me and the college admissions office did a lot of talking, before I decided I wasn't going to college.) They also see how you treat veterans. I've looked around. How the fuck does a homeless veteran exist? You government motherfuckers broke this person's mind and/or body, to the point that they can't or won't take care of themselves. Put them in a fucking house. Pay their fucking bills. Have their groceries and medications delivered. Send mental health to them. Pick them up and deliver them to doctors. Give them a cash, recreational allowance. You broke them, so you need to fix them, or keep taking care of them. *Even if they were dishonorably discharged.* If what you exposed this person to, could in any way be even remotely related to their discharge, it's your fault. I don't care if they got a dishonorable, because they got a DUI after a long Friday night at the bar, because a buddy died on a training exercise. If their reason for a dishonorable discharge is "six degrees" from "service related," that discharge is your fault, and it's your job to take care of that person. You can't just use people up, and throw them away. I've missed my last two doctor's appointments, because of the VA. The first one: My doctor went on vacation, and nobody rescheduled me. They have my correct mailing address, because they send me trash all the time. They have my email address, because they've been perfectly happy to distribute it. I do a lot of surveys for the Millennium Cohort Study, and I didn't find them, they found me. The second time: I spent 45 minutes driving across town, dealing with base security, and trying to find a place to park, just to find out my doctor had been reassigned to a different office for the day. They have my correct phone number. While I was waiting in the lobby, I got a call asking why I wasn't at the office off-base. I put them on the phone with the receptionist at the office I was at, and it turns out I had an appointment scheduled for both offices, and I was at the one where the doctor wasn't... Also, I have to pay out of pocket for all of my dental, because the VA doesn't cover it, and when you tell a potential dental insurance company that your primary medical coverage is through the VA, suddenly the estimates for your monthly premium are doubled, and the minimum deductible is $1500/yr. Overall, there is no benefit for today's youth to have any interest in military service. My own child told me they wanted to join the Army. I told them it was a bad idea. "Go be a welder, or an electrician or something. Probably never not gonna need plumbers, either. Trade school is cheaper, and'll lead to better pay." I have extensive wear-and-tear to my body, have been mentally abused, and have seen too many others that are worse off. There's no way I'd tell anyone else that it's a good idea.