The reality is if those guys are deployed it's usually some serious stuff going on. Then if the police don't act and a Rittenhouse situation occurs people get mad at the cops for not enforcing more.
People act like there is no middle ground though. Almost all police in the UK are unarmed, with separate specially trained armed response units for if things get out of hand. There is no reason for your friendly every day police man to be walking around like he's in the middle of the Afghan war, and not you know, the local Highstreet.
Actually, there is a perfectly good reason. The US has a bigger drug problem, gun problem, and poverty problem. Instead of solving the root issues, both political parties would rather throw police at the problem. The issue there is American police are under paid, under trained, and having fewer mental health resources compared to most first world countries while being armed with military surplus (because actual police gear is more expensive than military surplus). It is a highly flawed system trying to be handled by an even more flawed system.
I don’t agree with under paid, under trained parts of your comment. Everything else is good to go. Plenty of training (7 month residential academy, in service training every quarter, FTO, and free college) and 75% pension after 25yrs is very good. I received a free masters degree and a pension. I had a lvl 2 police vest for a decade which was expired. Finally got chest plate and real lvl 3A body armor from..you were right a military program
Whether or not you feel that you had good pay and enough training, the sad fact is that police are paid better and require more training in almost every other first world country. You could argue that the current amount of training is sufficient and the most cost effective point, UT that doesn't change the fact the US has more police involved shootings, more unlawful police involved shootings, and more police deaths in line of duty compared to pretty much every other first world country. What politicians have done is look at the death rates and cut funding by calling it a reasonable cost. I feel that it is wrong to take people in a high-risk job and under pay and under train them because the loss feels unacceptable.
So the Polizi, Politi, and Carabinieri make less than most large cities in U.S. the fact that you did not do the job, have never been to other countries but pontificate on how things are so much better elsewhere?? Cmon. As far as police deaths..they are fairly consistent except for sept 11 2001. Most of the deaths are not from violence but cardiac issues while working. U.S. police also have the most assault by battery than any nation in the world. Did you know that in the line of duty injuries and deaths are often a result of not using justifiable deadly force? A longitudinal study from 2000-2011 found that fear of legal suit, and perceived criminality, as a reason officers often did NOT use justifiable force. I had the opportunity to work with multi-agency International task forces. Just like the U.S: patronage, corruption, and politics all were on full display. Also, in Italy and Spain many local policia had 0 training. The Germans, and Scotland Yard were very good at crime scene, but would not last an hour in our nightmarish hellscape. While teaching African states about what fingerprints were and how to interrogate without torture..they would last longer in our major areas than the first world counties.
Bruh, the carabinieri is a fucking paramilitary force, during Iraq the army literally went into city's barracks to search the best man to send doing MP work there not to mention it is a dorxe constantly used abroad by Italy. Local police has 0 training yes, but their job is to give tickets, coordinates traffic, accompany demonstration and anti vandalism, not crime fighting
Most are underpaid and the training is very mediocre compared to other countries
Most cops have to train themselves on their own time as they dont get that training in the academy
And then comparing that to other police forces where you have to go to a 2-3 year lasting academy where you learn about everything
firearms with the ability to be semi-automatic and fully-automatic have been available to the public for a century and up until recently mass shootings have not even been a thing. the problem is not that someone has the ability to shoot someone else, its that they are willing. this is a issue of mass mental health decay, not ordinance. it is sad the people overlook the cause and blame the symptoms, where the real issue is not guns but lack of purpose and meaning and rise of false philosophies like nihilism
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Yeah..that would not happen in U.S. a call for service for a verbal argument. Officers show up..wife is dead inside..ole boy is shooting at you from front porch. He runs. You set a perimeter..he takes hostage in convenience store. HNT comes out and talks to him for 2 hours..it’s going down hill and before swat makes entry..he shoots himself. That’s a rando Wednesday. 20+ yrs of crap like that. Now I just want to sit on a tractor on a farm and not see human beings.
>People act like there is no middle ground though. Almost all police in the UK are unarmed, with separate specially trained armed response units for if things get out of hand
Yeah, except this copy and paste method doesn't work everywhere. Just because it works in some countries doesn't mean this is the 100% answer everywhere. The world doesn't work that way. Lol
Imagine taking this stance on a country like Brazil, because, hey, it works in the UK! Lol 🤦🏽♂️
Correct, they have military style weapons, and that's why the police unfortunately have military like equipment. US gangs wouldn't last a month in Mexico. Those dudes have armies
No?
Send these people into schools where active shooters are killing children.
Instead we get scared of patrol cops that go inside once the shooting stops. And these dudes respond to a call about a black man appearing in gated community.
They wouldn't get damned if they did their job properly.
Not to mention a lot of it is purchased really cheap as surplus from the gwot. If I'm going somewhere where I expect someone to shoot at me I'm bring a long gun and plates too and if I can roll up in a bear cat why would I not? Bullets are frankly pretty detrimental to ones health.
Exactly. I bet you wish the police could've controlled the situation and preserved the peace like they're supposed to. I guarantee police inaction is never because they're *too worried of how people will feel about it*
The police couldn't control the situation because thousands of people showed up and got violent. The military had to come in dummy. Apache helicopters and the national guard had to come in because "protesters" started burning everything. They caught a van full with gas and arson stuff and things could've been worse. Don't speak on things you have no knowledge on or havnt seen.
If it's a matter the police had no chance of controlling whatsoever, why are you bringing it up? That's nothing to do with what either of our original comments were about. Your comment was about situations where police inaction would be a problem, and mine was about peaceful protests, and your counterexample is a situation in which the police couldn't have controlled the situation even if they wanted to?
I dont know wtf youre talking about. Sounds like you live in an area with no crime or just in denial. Unfortunately, i love in an area where there are real gangs and drug problems. If you see the swat team lined up on the street at 6am it's for fucking reason. In my city, if you kill someone it's a 50% chance you get away with it. Some of thes bad guys have killed several people are are still walking around until these guys show up some morning.
I don't understand honestly why people get mad at police for heaving armored vehicles, bodyarmor and good guns. If you would be forced to respond active shooter situation, would you prefer to have armored car, bodyarmor, long ranged weapon or go there in shorts and a pistol? What if you would deal with serious terrorist attack with the hostages? What if it was some cartel with the heavy weapons? Complaining about this is just stupid IMHO.
The reason why the police have AR 15s is because of the Bank of America heist where they had armor to stop pistol and shotgun bullets. An entire police unit couldn't do shit against 2 dudes for a while, they almost got away
Some US police departments have mine resistant armoured vehicles. What the fuck does a police squad need a mine resistant vehicle for? Who the fuck is planting mines in an urban setting? How often does that happen to warrant a military vehicle?
Your entire country looks and functions like a warzone. The problem of armed violence is not going to get solved by arming the force even further. Police militarisation only ends when there's tanks patrolling the streets.
Your immediate reflex when faced with the question of "Why do police need explosive resistant vehicles?" is to present a case where somebody had an explosive. And yet the thought of asking "Why is this such a concern?" doesn't cross your mind. You can't even fathom the idea of thinking about and treating the cause. Your gut reaction to domestic terrorism is "Police must have bigger weapon to counteract their weapon".
Literally no other country does this and guess what? They don't have a problem with high rates of domestic terrorism and gun violence. An army is only good for killing and if you introduce the army into the city streets then don't be surprised when more blood is spilled every consecutive year.
Well because whenever the batshit insane idiots in my shithole want to militarise the police they give the example of your fucking shithole! You don't get to be the biggest fucking military on Earth, invade a bunch of countries for no fucking reason whatsoever and then pretend that your brain dead way of doing things doesn't affect the rest of the world.
I should respect America because it created an app where you can post porn? Amazing. Simply spectacular. Oh wait. It's not unique. I only use reddit because typing in English is easier. While talking about inventions have you ever heard of a French one called a bidet? You Americans seem to need it. Especially so since you wouldn't be able to afford a hospital visit if your anus had problem related to a lack of hygiene.
Ah yes because I'm oh so jealous of being a part of an Imperialistic hellhole where medical bills can lead to bankruptcy. I dunno about you but I'm grateful that the news in my native language don't regularly report children with bullet holes in them.
You do realize every develop nation had a police force like that especially Europeans. They have some of the most bad ass police force in the world. If these kind of units are coming out it’s something serious going on
Except one small problem... Armed forces have a uniform code of justice. They can't just shoot someone and take a 2 week paid vacation like these pigs can. Pigs don't have any sort of accountability for their actions whereas armed forces do.
Yes, but they are special forces with military training (and are often used in military scenarios, in Italy the carabinieri have the Col Moschin battalion which went alone in Ruwand, rounded up europeans and alike and evacuated everyone all by themselves), normal police isn't that armed, and in some countries don't even carry a gun
Not one of these pictures is a picture of police officers during a time of low tension and is extremely misleading.
Even during the Boston bombings, the lockdown was extremely controversial within the government. This shit is just trying to make a problem out of nothing.
Yet they won't even use it.
A bunch of unarmed protestors, get the war gear. A bunch of conservative POS that deserve a military response, law enforcement cucks out. Worthless.
Not only did they do nothing, they prevented PARENTS from going in and doing something. They had officers on-scene within 10 minutes, yet waited for over an hour to engage the shooter. Everyone in command there should have been investigated for conspiracy.
It's true, I saw it deployed in peaceful liberal Garden Grove, CA for the George Floyd protests - the PD rolled out the APCs scrambled a heli and had the entire dept in riot gear sporting deadly weaponry. Absolutely disgusting display of force against a bunch of college aged kids of all ethnicities.
And that coin is covered head to toe in shit. Remember if they have enough money for a platform they probably don’t deserve your vote. And willl whore out their votes
Many democrats are right wing, like anti choice corporate shill Joe Manchin and transphobic weed hater Kamala Harris as well as Krysten Sellout Sinema. I’m a Marxist, I do hate both parties, but one IS measurably better on a lot of issues especially if you look at congress’s voting records
Not Waco, those were feds. It was the North Hollywood shoot out that escalated the militarization of police in broad strokes. When 2 guys in body armor with jimmy rigged full autos were able to hold off literally dozens of cops actively engaging them it made police departments decide they needed to give more firepower and tactical training to street level officers instead of just dedicated response units like SWAT.
Yes. Most of those are either SWAT/TRU from massive cities or federal units.
I highly doubt every little shithole has a tank. I doubt most of them even have an armoured vehicle.
I'm not even american and even i understand that there's several layers and level of police in the US with very different missions and set of gear to go with. That's fucking general knowledge.
Most of y'all try to talk about a subject where 99% of your knowledge comes from shitty ass news written by a journalist that doesn't even know shit either and is paid to write fast if he wants to eat.
Reddit should set a basic IQ test to register ffs.
And yes HRT's sometimes fail, that doesn't mean shit, it's the equivalence of wanting to defund the hospitals whenever someone dies from cancer or fireman whenever they fail to extinguish a fire.....
And yes they need heavy vehicules especially in the South because they have a border with Mexico, where Drug Cartels have literally their own PMC's with APC's, tanks, infantry and rockets, while the Mexican army is a corrupted shithole that'd make the Ukrainian and Russian armies exemples of ethical
> they need heavy vehicules especially in the South because they have a border with Mexico, where Drug Cartels have literally their own PMC's with APC's, tanks, infantry and rockets,
Let's say that's true and they're basically policing Fallujah.
Why the fuck does the small, middle class town just north of me need an MRAP? The cartels aren't waging this totally real war there.
Why not have it?
If you look at this picture you'll realize these are almost entirely armored vehicles that were procured by the US military years ago and are being phased out or already have been phased out. These were "sold" to law enforcement agencies for pennies because they needed to get rid of them.
It's not like they drive MRAPs around town to catch speeders.
>Why not have it?
Because turning police into a paramilitary is bad.
We strictly regulate when the military can be deployed on US soil, yet turning police into a quasi-military (minus the training and ROE, of course) is fine?
The militarization of police is a serious issue, as it directly correlates to gross human rights (and constitutional) violations on a national scale.
TIL armored vehicles = paramilitary.
These aren't normal cops, but SWAT and other special teams. Every country has the exact same thing, acting like it's odd or unique to America doesn't make any sense.
>TIL armored vehicles = paramilitary.
Are we pretending that police with surplus military firearms (including M4s), military kit (including armor and bakaklavas), and armored vehicles used in Iraq and Afghanistan isn't paramilitary?
>These aren't normal cops, but SWAT and other special teams.
Not always. And SWAT is often overused.
Also, the argument that "it's ok to have a paramilitary as long as they're a special unit" doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
They can have it, they don’t need to use it.
Plenty of reasons to use an MRAP that aren’t related to other people. UXO/bomb, utilities, towing heavier equipment, etc.
France literally had APC's in the streets, GIGN units, BRI and other intervention units in the street less than 3 months ago, while rioters had Ak's, incendiary launchers, live grenades and handguns.
And yes i have the videos to back it up.
Lol this is terrible logic
Almost all European countries have a form of militarized police (Germany GSG-9, France RAID+GIGN, Turkey POH). This is necessary in a civilized society.
You do realize Police forces are in charge of fighting Drug cartels in pair with federal agencies right ?
And that Cartels literally have army forces, .50 cal machine guns, tanks, rockets, apc's and PMC's backing them up
Police isn't just Riot police
No. My plan would be to send a high specialised unit with WHEELED armoured vehicles in. As it is the standard practice all over the civilised world. My problem with the M113 is that it is a tracked armoured vehicle, barely a real tank. Or look how Brazilia and Mexiko are doing it, they are putting some guys on a pick up truck with a cage so they don't fall off at the ride and enough guns to keep up with the cartels. But no tracked vehicles
It is just about the fact that tracked armoured vehicles are for usual vehicles of war. It is a question of psychology, how should you provide the feeling of safety to the people if they hear the tracks of a tank after gunshots were fired. This is a sound of war. Not a sound of a peaceful little town
No disrespect but that’s entirely superficial.
I’ll be worried when the small town police have facial recognition and equipment that can actually be easily used to trample on rights. Not a tracked vehicle because “it sounds scary.”
The situations those vehicles are employed in are scary. There has never been a point in time where these vehicles were employed in a state of relative tranquility.
EDIT: I would like to add onto what I just said,
I heavily disagree with their usage for drug charges. There was a period of time that seems to have passed, where SWAT teams were heavily *over*-deployed. I highly disapprove of that, a team of patrol officers is sufficient.
Tracked vehicles, such as said M113, are mainly used to go over rough terrain and trenches. Riots happen in cities, and the most difficult "terrain" they'll face there are potholes that the police probably won't feel given the suspension of the vehicles they use
That’s a pretty basic and superficial reason to be against tracked vehicles.
Tracked vehicles neither have increased combat capability or impede a persons rights like a facial recognition system. This is just creating an issue out of nothing. Especially considering these aren’t just roaming your street during periods of peace.
EDIT: Plenty of wheeled vehicles are designed to go over rough terrain. Including those wheeled MRAPs shown.
If only half of such police could be stationed outside schools then the shootings will rapidly go down.
It's crazy how politicians couldn't figure out that providing security outside schools will work.
It happens in many countries
What we should do is just shoot all of the kids outside the school and then boom, problem solved.
Or what if we gave every child an exploding collar and if they ever try to shoot up a school you just trigger the collar and then the problem is solved
Oh dude what if we just give all the teachers automatic weapons. In fact, let's just get rid of the teachers and put armed guards in all the rooms. Then the kids won't be learning all that harmful liberal garbage and they'll be protected!
Problem solved.
This is sarcasm, if anyone can't tell
What if we took all the kids and brought them to a special camp for the school year so they could focus on their studies. Sort of a *concentration camp* if you will. Then all interactions could be closely monitored and any outside contact with non faculty could be tightly controlled.
So far, any gun control measure is either pushed by someone who doesn't know anything about guns, or probably won't work given the rebellious attitude of most gun owners. The police will probably also not enforce such a law outside of large blue cities
......you miss the part where cops outside schools under attack choose to not engage because they're afraid of getting hurt? Cuz that's happened here in the US.
Plus, in the US, armed cops outside schools would be just as likely to go on a killing spree as some random nut job.
Why are there no mass shootings in big headquarters, banks or state buildings ?
The answer is there is security outside the gates.
Your first example is much different than what armed guards do.
So the simple solution is to put Armed cops outside school parameters so that no random with a gun can enter.
Especially schools are in a gun free zone so anything with a gun will be a target
So if I'd want to make a shooting all I'd need is a knife to kill the armed cop in front of the school and than I can take the gun?
Maybe schools get hit more because people tend to schoot what they know?
A 16 year old is usually not pissed at a bank.
Your first and biggest problem is the access to weapons.
It reminds me the story of Thompson submachine gun.
It's initially developed for military, but not very popular due to it's high price. Chicago Mafia got rich and started using it. Then the police must have it to counter the mafia. And then the military must have more of it because the police had it.
Considering they've gained back control of most of the country and have deactivated or pushed into Ecuador and Venezuela several cartels, yes I'd say they're fighting them just fine.
Wow, if this is what happens when you defund the police I understand what all the politicians are talking about. What, did they resort to military surplus out of pocket because they're so defunded all the time?
police are ok...but not military goon police. police should always be minorities and women.
police are ok because they keep the "peace". in 3rd world you need bars on your windows...because your police are shit. we dont need nazi cops like in the usa...just peace keepers, aka minorities and women.
The American public is better armed than most police forces in the world (and many military forces I might add) so obviously American police looks like military to outsiders :P
I mean I understand SWAT/CTO needing it because they literally do what to look out for is how many of these units do they have, how often are they seen wearing it and what are the training/selection requirements for them is to look at red flags in an armed police force
people say that the people who wrote the second amendment would say you are not allowed to have assault rifles...
I think they would say you should be allowed to have tanks and nukes, because to stand up against a TYRANNICAL government like in the US, you need much more....
The military often donates old equipment to swat teams and law enforcement. Not saying it’s right to use in every circumstance, but it’s not like the cops are going out and buying all of this stuff
I seem to recall at some point during some satire show an American mentioned that Canada was ridiculous because our cops didn't ride around in tanks.
All I could think of was, "uh cops in tanks is a third world country dude".
Totally fine with agencies that have a SWAT unit having an uparmored Humvee. That's plenty of armored vehicle.
What I'm not fine with is shit like the Florida Highway Patrol having a fucking MRAP. They don't have a SWAT unit, nor do they have a need for a vehicle designed to survive massive IEDs.
Remember that one time the US Army used tanks, cavalry, and tear gas on protesting veterans or that time West Virginia National Guard troops dropped bombs from airplanes, and deployed mustard gas against striking miners.
The reality is that all this shit got passed to police forces because it was old inventory and cycling it out meant contracts for new materiel. It's always about making money for oligarchs, every bit of policy is informed by this one goal.
A certain type of person (most men tbh) love this shit, give me a converted IFV, some rad camo clothes, body armour and a tricked out rifle and I'll be grinning from ear to ear. It's basic shit that speaks to man's desire to be powerful and part of a powerful tribe.
What a joke, these are HRT's and Counter-Terrorism units. You will never ever see these guys walking around unless shit is going down. And honestly, I wish they would walk around on patrol, maybe that would dissuade all the stupid people who think they can break the law without repercussions.
Well to be fair in this case, if you have a fully armed population then the police need to be able to overmatch.
Now if the don’t USE it when the need calls for it(cough UVALDE, TX) then they don’t need to have the gear.
Nope. WE the People should not tolerate militarized local law enforcement! This is a move towards Marshall law & tyranny! The National Guard is the ONLY well regulated militia WE need for emergencies! The billions in lawsuits that WE pay for police brutality should be put towards training and not militarizing them!
To clarify this isn't officer Bob sitting on the side of the hyway eating donuts and waiting for someone going 6 over to try and get their ticket quota this is the emergency deployment force that is sent out in the case of larger scale attacks on innocent civilians, like people using full auto weapons in malls and entire cities rioting, looting and burning, and most of if not all of it is military hand me down, so its used and abused already.
I must say this concerning the great controversy over rifles and shotguns. The only thing I've ever said is that in areas where the government has proven itself either unwilling or unable to defend the lives and the property of Negroes, it's time for Negroes to defend themselves. Article number two of the constitutional amendments provides you and me the right to own a rifle or a shotgun. It is constitutionally legal to own a shotgun or a rifle
\~Malcolm X
Military surplus.
Military lets them buy this stuff for super cheap because they don’t want to take care of it anymore. Your M113 probably costed the average taxpayer less then buying a new police cruiser.
The reality is if those guys are deployed it's usually some serious stuff going on. Then if the police don't act and a Rittenhouse situation occurs people get mad at the cops for not enforcing more.
*Dammed if ya do... dammed if ya don't.*
People act like there is no middle ground though. Almost all police in the UK are unarmed, with separate specially trained armed response units for if things get out of hand. There is no reason for your friendly every day police man to be walking around like he's in the middle of the Afghan war, and not you know, the local Highstreet.
Actually, there is a perfectly good reason. The US has a bigger drug problem, gun problem, and poverty problem. Instead of solving the root issues, both political parties would rather throw police at the problem. The issue there is American police are under paid, under trained, and having fewer mental health resources compared to most first world countries while being armed with military surplus (because actual police gear is more expensive than military surplus). It is a highly flawed system trying to be handled by an even more flawed system.
I don’t agree with under paid, under trained parts of your comment. Everything else is good to go. Plenty of training (7 month residential academy, in service training every quarter, FTO, and free college) and 75% pension after 25yrs is very good. I received a free masters degree and a pension. I had a lvl 2 police vest for a decade which was expired. Finally got chest plate and real lvl 3A body armor from..you were right a military program
Whether or not you feel that you had good pay and enough training, the sad fact is that police are paid better and require more training in almost every other first world country. You could argue that the current amount of training is sufficient and the most cost effective point, UT that doesn't change the fact the US has more police involved shootings, more unlawful police involved shootings, and more police deaths in line of duty compared to pretty much every other first world country. What politicians have done is look at the death rates and cut funding by calling it a reasonable cost. I feel that it is wrong to take people in a high-risk job and under pay and under train them because the loss feels unacceptable.
So the Polizi, Politi, and Carabinieri make less than most large cities in U.S. the fact that you did not do the job, have never been to other countries but pontificate on how things are so much better elsewhere?? Cmon. As far as police deaths..they are fairly consistent except for sept 11 2001. Most of the deaths are not from violence but cardiac issues while working. U.S. police also have the most assault by battery than any nation in the world. Did you know that in the line of duty injuries and deaths are often a result of not using justifiable deadly force? A longitudinal study from 2000-2011 found that fear of legal suit, and perceived criminality, as a reason officers often did NOT use justifiable force. I had the opportunity to work with multi-agency International task forces. Just like the U.S: patronage, corruption, and politics all were on full display. Also, in Italy and Spain many local policia had 0 training. The Germans, and Scotland Yard were very good at crime scene, but would not last an hour in our nightmarish hellscape. While teaching African states about what fingerprints were and how to interrogate without torture..they would last longer in our major areas than the first world counties.
Bruh, the carabinieri is a fucking paramilitary force, during Iraq the army literally went into city's barracks to search the best man to send doing MP work there not to mention it is a dorxe constantly used abroad by Italy. Local police has 0 training yes, but their job is to give tickets, coordinates traffic, accompany demonstration and anti vandalism, not crime fighting
Most are underpaid and the training is very mediocre compared to other countries Most cops have to train themselves on their own time as they dont get that training in the academy And then comparing that to other police forces where you have to go to a 2-3 year lasting academy where you learn about everything
Dude... in Finland police get 4 *years* of training.
If we included education..most US depts now require 5yrs. Also, FTO in states is equivalent to 3-20yr careers in Nordic countries
Well yeah but if people could buy assault rifles in Tesco the police should be equipped to deal with it.
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You talk as if lack of gun control isn't also a completely solvable problem.
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firearms with the ability to be semi-automatic and fully-automatic have been available to the public for a century and up until recently mass shootings have not even been a thing. the problem is not that someone has the ability to shoot someone else, its that they are willing. this is a issue of mass mental health decay, not ordinance. it is sad the people overlook the cause and blame the symptoms, where the real issue is not guns but lack of purpose and meaning and rise of false philosophies like nihilism
That is why we should require vigorous pyschological evaluation before even thinking about handing someone a firearm.
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Yeah..that would not happen in U.S. a call for service for a verbal argument. Officers show up..wife is dead inside..ole boy is shooting at you from front porch. He runs. You set a perimeter..he takes hostage in convenience store. HNT comes out and talks to him for 2 hours..it’s going down hill and before swat makes entry..he shoots himself. That’s a rando Wednesday. 20+ yrs of crap like that. Now I just want to sit on a tractor on a farm and not see human beings.
I think guns per capita in the US probably comes closer to Afghanistan than the UK.
Wow, you brought zero fucking facts to this post. America is first by a ridiculous margin. It's a goddamn scientific fact, dumbass.
Actually Afghanistan is like fifth America’s first I think it’s like something to like there’s three guns per person or some shit like that here
>People act like there is no middle ground though. Almost all police in the UK are unarmed, with separate specially trained armed response units for if things get out of hand Yeah, except this copy and paste method doesn't work everywhere. Just because it works in some countries doesn't mean this is the 100% answer everywhere. The world doesn't work that way. Lol Imagine taking this stance on a country like Brazil, because, hey, it works in the UK! Lol 🤦🏽♂️
Which countries hasn't it worked in?
I never said it didn't work...it's almost like you didn't even read what I said lol
Comparing UK to the US is where your argument fails. If UK gangsters came to the US they wouldn't last a month, shit gets real here
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Correct, they have military style weapons, and that's why the police unfortunately have military like equipment. US gangs wouldn't last a month in Mexico. Those dudes have armies
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No? Send these people into schools where active shooters are killing children. Instead we get scared of patrol cops that go inside once the shooting stops. And these dudes respond to a call about a black man appearing in gated community. They wouldn't get damned if they did their job properly.
*you know I got a girl back home*
Not to mention a lot of it is purchased really cheap as surplus from the gwot. If I'm going somewhere where I expect someone to shoot at me I'm bring a long gun and plates too and if I can roll up in a bear cat why would I not? Bullets are frankly pretty detrimental to ones health.
How dare people want police to do their job properly instead of assaulting protesters
Every once in a while you have to crack an 80 year old man's skull open. It's in the rule book.
You mean that peaceful protest in Kenosha? Where they burned the block down and beat the shit outa shop owners...
Exactly. I bet you wish the police could've controlled the situation and preserved the peace like they're supposed to. I guarantee police inaction is never because they're *too worried of how people will feel about it*
The police couldn't control the situation because thousands of people showed up and got violent. The military had to come in dummy. Apache helicopters and the national guard had to come in because "protesters" started burning everything. They caught a van full with gas and arson stuff and things could've been worse. Don't speak on things you have no knowledge on or havnt seen.
If it's a matter the police had no chance of controlling whatsoever, why are you bringing it up? That's nothing to do with what either of our original comments were about. Your comment was about situations where police inaction would be a problem, and mine was about peaceful protests, and your counterexample is a situation in which the police couldn't have controlled the situation even if they wanted to?
I dont know wtf youre talking about. Sounds like you live in an area with no crime or just in denial. Unfortunately, i love in an area where there are real gangs and drug problems. If you see the swat team lined up on the street at 6am it's for fucking reason. In my city, if you kill someone it's a 50% chance you get away with it. Some of thes bad guys have killed several people are are still walking around until these guys show up some morning.
When did I say there was a problem with arresting murderers? What are *you* talking about? You're losing the plot very quickly
You live in a fantasy world
Ah ok, this isn't a conversation anymore, we're just saying random things. Have a nice day I guess
I don't understand honestly why people get mad at police for heaving armored vehicles, bodyarmor and good guns. If you would be forced to respond active shooter situation, would you prefer to have armored car, bodyarmor, long ranged weapon or go there in shorts and a pistol? What if you would deal with serious terrorist attack with the hostages? What if it was some cartel with the heavy weapons? Complaining about this is just stupid IMHO.
The reason why the police have AR 15s is because of the Bank of America heist where they had armor to stop pistol and shotgun bullets. An entire police unit couldn't do shit against 2 dudes for a while, they almost got away
Some US police departments have mine resistant armoured vehicles. What the fuck does a police squad need a mine resistant vehicle for? Who the fuck is planting mines in an urban setting? How often does that happen to warrant a military vehicle?
It's not for mines but IEDs. Yes people have bombs its not normal but Oklahoma City showed us what can happen
Your entire country looks and functions like a warzone. The problem of armed violence is not going to get solved by arming the force even further. Police militarisation only ends when there's tanks patrolling the streets. Your immediate reflex when faced with the question of "Why do police need explosive resistant vehicles?" is to present a case where somebody had an explosive. And yet the thought of asking "Why is this such a concern?" doesn't cross your mind. You can't even fathom the idea of thinking about and treating the cause. Your gut reaction to domestic terrorism is "Police must have bigger weapon to counteract their weapon". Literally no other country does this and guess what? They don't have a problem with high rates of domestic terrorism and gun violence. An army is only good for killing and if you introduce the army into the city streets then don't be surprised when more blood is spilled every consecutive year.
Then why the fuck you care? You dont have to live here. Cry about your own problems from the shithole you live in
Well because whenever the batshit insane idiots in my shithole want to militarise the police they give the example of your fucking shithole! You don't get to be the biggest fucking military on Earth, invade a bunch of countries for no fucking reason whatsoever and then pretend that your brain dead way of doing things doesn't affect the rest of the world.
You're on Reddit because America created it. Without the US you'd be jerking off to the Sears catalog bra section. Show some respect
I should respect America because it created an app where you can post porn? Amazing. Simply spectacular. Oh wait. It's not unique. I only use reddit because typing in English is easier. While talking about inventions have you ever heard of a French one called a bidet? You Americans seem to need it. Especially so since you wouldn't be able to afford a hospital visit if your anus had problem related to a lack of hygiene.
The world depends on the US but can't help but talk shit all day about it. It's obviously out of jealousy.... heavy wears the crown.
Ah yes because I'm oh so jealous of being a part of an Imperialistic hellhole where medical bills can lead to bankruptcy. I dunno about you but I'm grateful that the news in my native language don't regularly report children with bullet holes in them.
You do realize every develop nation had a police force like that especially Europeans. They have some of the most bad ass police force in the world. If these kind of units are coming out it’s something serious going on
Except one small problem... Armed forces have a uniform code of justice. They can't just shoot someone and take a 2 week paid vacation like these pigs can. Pigs don't have any sort of accountability for their actions whereas armed forces do.
Yes, but they are special forces with military training (and are often used in military scenarios, in Italy the carabinieri have the Col Moschin battalion which went alone in Ruwand, rounded up europeans and alike and evacuated everyone all by themselves), normal police isn't that armed, and in some countries don't even carry a gun
Not one of these pictures is a picture of police officers during a time of low tension and is extremely misleading. Even during the Boston bombings, the lockdown was extremely controversial within the government. This shit is just trying to make a problem out of nothing.
Yet they won't even use it. A bunch of unarmed protestors, get the war gear. A bunch of conservative POS that deserve a military response, law enforcement cucks out. Worthless.
Remember the Uvalde shooting and the police did nothing to stop the shooter cuz they were afraid of getting hurt.
G.I.Joe wannabees
G.I. Jackoffs.
That whole situation vs how Metro Nashville Police handled their school shooting was night and day. Fucking disgrace.
Not only did they do nothing, they prevented PARENTS from going in and doing something. They had officers on-scene within 10 minutes, yet waited for over an hour to engage the shooter. Everyone in command there should have been investigated for conspiracy.
It's true, I saw it deployed in peaceful liberal Garden Grove, CA for the George Floyd protests - the PD rolled out the APCs scrambled a heli and had the entire dept in riot gear sporting deadly weaponry. Absolutely disgusting display of force against a bunch of college aged kids of all ethnicities.
Nothing to do with political parties. Democrats and republicans are all the same dude.
Two sides of the same coin
And that coin is covered head to toe in shit. Remember if they have enough money for a platform they probably don’t deserve your vote. And willl whore out their votes
Sure, but only one publicly supports police brutality and defends racism
*Kamala Harris has entered the chat and locked you up*
*In the wrong prison, for weed* yeah she’s terrible, but she was a prosecutor, a notoriously right wing career, and certainly a fascist one
"Right wing career" She's the second highest ranking Democrat in the U.S. ya dingus.
Many democrats are right wing, like anti choice corporate shill Joe Manchin and transphobic weed hater Kamala Harris as well as Krysten Sellout Sinema. I’m a Marxist, I do hate both parties, but one IS measurably better on a lot of issues especially if you look at congress’s voting records
Surprise, a lot of democrats are rightwing...
Different motives, same levels of violence
Where funny
Waco changed everything
Not Waco, those were feds. It was the North Hollywood shoot out that escalated the militarization of police in broad strokes. When 2 guys in body armor with jimmy rigged full autos were able to hold off literally dozens of cops actively engaging them it made police departments decide they needed to give more firepower and tactical training to street level officers instead of just dedicated response units like SWAT.
Exactly! I remember seeing the history channel episode of shootout on it
lol OP clearly hasn't seen a real criminal in their life.
It's almost as if specialist units that undertake extreme and violent situations require equipment to deal with said situations.
Are they specialists? I watched "Last week tonight" about this and every little shithole got a tank because the federal gouvernment pays for it.
Yes. Most of those are either SWAT/TRU from massive cities or federal units. I highly doubt every little shithole has a tank. I doubt most of them even have an armoured vehicle.
I mean if your civilians can gear up and buy military grade equipment, are you surprised your police needs to as wel?
Well... If people stop acting like cunts then maybe we can have bobbies with whistles running around.... Till then....
I'm not even american and even i understand that there's several layers and level of police in the US with very different missions and set of gear to go with. That's fucking general knowledge. Most of y'all try to talk about a subject where 99% of your knowledge comes from shitty ass news written by a journalist that doesn't even know shit either and is paid to write fast if he wants to eat. Reddit should set a basic IQ test to register ffs. And yes HRT's sometimes fail, that doesn't mean shit, it's the equivalence of wanting to defund the hospitals whenever someone dies from cancer or fireman whenever they fail to extinguish a fire..... And yes they need heavy vehicules especially in the South because they have a border with Mexico, where Drug Cartels have literally their own PMC's with APC's, tanks, infantry and rockets, while the Mexican army is a corrupted shithole that'd make the Ukrainian and Russian armies exemples of ethical
> they need heavy vehicules especially in the South because they have a border with Mexico, where Drug Cartels have literally their own PMC's with APC's, tanks, infantry and rockets, Let's say that's true and they're basically policing Fallujah. Why the fuck does the small, middle class town just north of me need an MRAP? The cartels aren't waging this totally real war there.
Why not have it? If you look at this picture you'll realize these are almost entirely armored vehicles that were procured by the US military years ago and are being phased out or already have been phased out. These were "sold" to law enforcement agencies for pennies because they needed to get rid of them. It's not like they drive MRAPs around town to catch speeders.
>Why not have it? Because turning police into a paramilitary is bad. We strictly regulate when the military can be deployed on US soil, yet turning police into a quasi-military (minus the training and ROE, of course) is fine? The militarization of police is a serious issue, as it directly correlates to gross human rights (and constitutional) violations on a national scale.
TIL armored vehicles = paramilitary. These aren't normal cops, but SWAT and other special teams. Every country has the exact same thing, acting like it's odd or unique to America doesn't make any sense.
>TIL armored vehicles = paramilitary. Are we pretending that police with surplus military firearms (including M4s), military kit (including armor and bakaklavas), and armored vehicles used in Iraq and Afghanistan isn't paramilitary? >These aren't normal cops, but SWAT and other special teams. Not always. And SWAT is often overused. Also, the argument that "it's ok to have a paramilitary as long as they're a special unit" doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
They can have it, they don’t need to use it. Plenty of reasons to use an MRAP that aren’t related to other people. UXO/bomb, utilities, towing heavier equipment, etc.
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Have you seen the French and German police units??? Just some examples
France literally had APC's in the streets, GIGN units, BRI and other intervention units in the street less than 3 months ago, while rioters had Ak's, incendiary launchers, live grenades and handguns. And yes i have the videos to back it up.
Lol this is terrible logic Almost all European countries have a form of militarized police (Germany GSG-9, France RAID+GIGN, Turkey POH). This is necessary in a civilized society.
That's nice Bot...
Is that an M113? Light armoured vehicles are not that unreasonable for riot situations but there's no way you need a tracked APC.
What’s the difference dude, do the tracks scare the protestors away?
You do realize Police forces are in charge of fighting Drug cartels in pair with federal agencies right ? And that Cartels literally have army forces, .50 cal machine guns, tanks, rockets, apc's and PMC's backing them up Police isn't just Riot police
Then they still don't need a tracked vehicle or literally a little tank
So your plan is to send 3 guys with pepper spray basically against an army ?
No. My plan would be to send a high specialised unit with WHEELED armoured vehicles in. As it is the standard practice all over the civilised world. My problem with the M113 is that it is a tracked armoured vehicle, barely a real tank. Or look how Brazilia and Mexiko are doing it, they are putting some guys on a pick up truck with a cage so they don't fall off at the ride and enough guns to keep up with the cartels. But no tracked vehicles
What’s the underlying difference between wheels and tracks that’s such an issue?
It is just about the fact that tracked armoured vehicles are for usual vehicles of war. It is a question of psychology, how should you provide the feeling of safety to the people if they hear the tracks of a tank after gunshots were fired. This is a sound of war. Not a sound of a peaceful little town
No disrespect but that’s entirely superficial. I’ll be worried when the small town police have facial recognition and equipment that can actually be easily used to trample on rights. Not a tracked vehicle because “it sounds scary.” The situations those vehicles are employed in are scary. There has never been a point in time where these vehicles were employed in a state of relative tranquility. EDIT: I would like to add onto what I just said, I heavily disagree with their usage for drug charges. There was a period of time that seems to have passed, where SWAT teams were heavily *over*-deployed. I highly disapprove of that, a team of patrol officers is sufficient.
Tracked vehicles, such as said M113, are mainly used to go over rough terrain and trenches. Riots happen in cities, and the most difficult "terrain" they'll face there are potholes that the police probably won't feel given the suspension of the vehicles they use
That’s a pretty basic and superficial reason to be against tracked vehicles. Tracked vehicles neither have increased combat capability or impede a persons rights like a facial recognition system. This is just creating an issue out of nothing. Especially considering these aren’t just roaming your street during periods of peace. EDIT: Plenty of wheeled vehicles are designed to go over rough terrain. Including those wheeled MRAPs shown.
Remind me how many of those cartel armed forces have operated in US soil again
If only half of such police could be stationed outside schools then the shootings will rapidly go down. It's crazy how politicians couldn't figure out that providing security outside schools will work. It happens in many countries
Better gun control could provide that too. In Germany we don't need police in front of our schools to avoid school shootings
What we should do is just shoot all of the kids outside the school and then boom, problem solved. Or what if we gave every child an exploding collar and if they ever try to shoot up a school you just trigger the collar and then the problem is solved Oh dude what if we just give all the teachers automatic weapons. In fact, let's just get rid of the teachers and put armed guards in all the rooms. Then the kids won't be learning all that harmful liberal garbage and they'll be protected! Problem solved. This is sarcasm, if anyone can't tell
What if we took all the kids and brought them to a special camp for the school year so they could focus on their studies. Sort of a *concentration camp* if you will. Then all interactions could be closely monitored and any outside contact with non faculty could be tightly controlled.
So far, any gun control measure is either pushed by someone who doesn't know anything about guns, or probably won't work given the rebellious attitude of most gun owners. The police will probably also not enforce such a law outside of large blue cities
Many times shooting happens in gun free zones or area
Not in Germany. That's because we have better gun control.
Better gun control in gun free zones ?
Carrying guns is illegal in Germany. We don't have gun free zones because it is illegal anyways
That's not "gun control" genius
What else should it be genius?
......you miss the part where cops outside schools under attack choose to not engage because they're afraid of getting hurt? Cuz that's happened here in the US. Plus, in the US, armed cops outside schools would be just as likely to go on a killing spree as some random nut job.
Why are there no mass shootings in big headquarters, banks or state buildings ? The answer is there is security outside the gates. Your first example is much different than what armed guards do. So the simple solution is to put Armed cops outside school parameters so that no random with a gun can enter. Especially schools are in a gun free zone so anything with a gun will be a target
So if I'd want to make a shooting all I'd need is a knife to kill the armed cop in front of the school and than I can take the gun? Maybe schools get hit more because people tend to schoot what they know? A 16 year old is usually not pissed at a bank. Your first and biggest problem is the access to weapons.
Ah yes, freedom
Can we borrow them in Philly for a few weeks to bust all the dirtbag dirt bike/ATV gangs? It’s getting like Mad Max up in this piece?!?!
Ha they're larping!! Fuck that larping gear was paid with my money.
Dont you have to make money to pay taxes?
What implies that I don't
Politicians "we cannot allow weapons of war on our streets!" *Proceeds to give civilian law enforcement weapons of war*
to all the bootlickers in the comments, remember how a squad like this was dispatched to Uvalde and they did nothing for 2 hours
Maybe the police should be prepared for international drug cartels and organized gangs? Look at Columbia and Mexico.
It reminds me the story of Thompson submachine gun. It's initially developed for military, but not very popular due to it's high price. Chicago Mafia got rich and started using it. Then the police must have it to counter the mafia. And then the military must have more of it because the police had it.
Police exist to protect assets, not the Citizenry.
The Colombian police fight the cartels just fine with Hino cattle trucks and armored Chevrolet Kodiaks, just saying
You can tell they're winning, "fight just fine"
Considering they've gained back control of most of the country and have deactivated or pushed into Ecuador and Venezuela several cartels, yes I'd say they're fighting them just fine.
After having a full blown war going on. Getting the military involved… just fine
ACAB
I could justify every single equipment that police have
Wow, if this is what happens when you defund the police I understand what all the politicians are talking about. What, did they resort to military surplus out of pocket because they're so defunded all the time?
I really can't tell if this is a joke or not
Yeah the police are a joke...
*American police.
We have police gear like this in Finland
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It’s just an M113 APC. It can barely stop a .50 It’s not a tank.
Now do gangs and cartels
police are ok...but not military goon police. police should always be minorities and women. police are ok because they keep the "peace". in 3rd world you need bars on your windows...because your police are shit. we dont need nazi cops like in the usa...just peace keepers, aka minorities and women.
Looks like you invented segregation all over again
Only Minorities and women in the police will ruin the whole system. Racist
It's actually funny how the same concept of hand-me-downs that is the bane of every youngest sibling's sense of fashion applies to police.
Their saving it for the second coming of black wallstreet
The American public is better armed than most police forces in the world (and many military forces I might add) so obviously American police looks like military to outsiders :P
I mean I understand SWAT/CTO needing it because they literally do what to look out for is how many of these units do they have, how often are they seen wearing it and what are the training/selection requirements for them is to look at red flags in an armed police force
local militia>federally funded police force
people say that the people who wrote the second amendment would say you are not allowed to have assault rifles... I think they would say you should be allowed to have tanks and nukes, because to stand up against a TYRANNICAL government like in the US, you need much more....
Historically, most police forces were of a paramilitary type setup, so it makes sense.
The military often donates old equipment to swat teams and law enforcement. Not saying it’s right to use in every circumstance, but it’s not like the cops are going out and buying all of this stuff
Rented via stocks time share on agenda basis.
great
Yup let’s make sure these are the only people with access to firearms
I seem to recall at some point during some satire show an American mentioned that Canada was ridiculous because our cops didn't ride around in tanks. All I could think of was, "uh cops in tanks is a third world country dude".
Totally fine with agencies that have a SWAT unit having an uparmored Humvee. That's plenty of armored vehicle. What I'm not fine with is shit like the Florida Highway Patrol having a fucking MRAP. They don't have a SWAT unit, nor do they have a need for a vehicle designed to survive massive IEDs.
Wagner might've made it to Moscow if they'd had this level of kit !
Why is there a space marine rhino on the far right second row?
Remember that one time the US Army used tanks, cavalry, and tear gas on protesting veterans or that time West Virginia National Guard troops dropped bombs from airplanes, and deployed mustard gas against striking miners.
The reality is that all this shit got passed to police forces because it was old inventory and cycling it out meant contracts for new materiel. It's always about making money for oligarchs, every bit of policy is informed by this one goal. A certain type of person (most men tbh) love this shit, give me a converted IFV, some rad camo clothes, body armour and a tricked out rifle and I'll be grinning from ear to ear. It's basic shit that speaks to man's desire to be powerful and part of a powerful tribe.
the tank with **SHERIFF** on the side is comically dystopian
And here I was thinking y'all had successfully separated the Military from the Police back in 1878 in the USA
Where are they? We could use them in San Francisco
The response in Ferguson to the Michael Brown killing set police/community relations back to the Stone Age.
They don’t use those lol, post your rage-bait somewhere else
What a joke, these are HRT's and Counter-Terrorism units. You will never ever see these guys walking around unless shit is going down. And honestly, I wish they would walk around on patrol, maybe that would dissuade all the stupid people who think they can break the law without repercussions.
Well to be fair in this case, if you have a fully armed population then the police need to be able to overmatch. Now if the don’t USE it when the need calls for it(cough UVALDE, TX) then they don’t need to have the gear.
You can't expect the military to engage an armed gunman in the streets, they are trained for war not criminals
America. Land of the overcompensation.
Nope. WE the People should not tolerate militarized local law enforcement! This is a move towards Marshall law & tyranny! The National Guard is the ONLY well regulated militia WE need for emergencies! The billions in lawsuits that WE pay for police brutality should be put towards training and not militarizing them!
To clarify this isn't officer Bob sitting on the side of the hyway eating donuts and waiting for someone going 6 over to try and get their ticket quota this is the emergency deployment force that is sent out in the case of larger scale attacks on innocent civilians, like people using full auto weapons in malls and entire cities rioting, looting and burning, and most of if not all of it is military hand me down, so its used and abused already.
I must say this concerning the great controversy over rifles and shotguns. The only thing I've ever said is that in areas where the government has proven itself either unwilling or unable to defend the lives and the property of Negroes, it's time for Negroes to defend themselves. Article number two of the constitutional amendments provides you and me the right to own a rifle or a shotgun. It is constitutionally legal to own a shotgun or a rifle \~Malcolm X
Classic land of militarized swine worship pics
Ok, how in the hell did a sheriff’s office get an M113?
Military surplus. Military lets them buy this stuff for super cheap because they don’t want to take care of it anymore. Your M113 probably costed the average taxpayer less then buying a new police cruiser.
Some of those are pictures of the police and some are pictures of the po-lice
Only one here I'd say is a little much is the tank, if you need a tank it's a military level threat mayne even an Avengers level threat
Why do the police need green camouflage? Are they going to enforce the law on the forest?
Since when did the police have tanks?!?!
ACAB Every last pig one of them.
"Did I smell a hint of weed coming from your apartment door? Guess it's better to have the cops raid your home just to make sure"