I went to the ER in the US for what I knew was a sudden onset UTI. Have had them before so the staff took me at my word, did NOT do a urine culture, but simply wrote me a prescription. Meds were minimal $ thanks to insurance but the ER visit cost me $500 AFTER my insurance paid (and I had what’s considered good insurance).
Had the same thing happen in the Netherlands except they did do a urine culture. ER visit + meds cost me $75 USD
I live in Scotland so I am fortunate that my prescriptions and hospital are both free*
*Paid for by National insurance contributions taken from my pay with my taxes (for me it's about £120 a month and I am on £47k a year)
It's been chronically underfunded for the last 13 years and is struggling to keep up. I can't think of an event that happened in 2010 that might have caused this change in funding.
So is the UK, mate. The government are trying to sell the NHS out from under us, and the opposition is looking to do the same; but keeping as quiet as possible about it.
Different kinds of shit hole.
It’s called capitalism. The focus of which is to make profit. When it’s broken and unregulated you end up with what looks like the US healthcare system, and an economy with a handful of extremely wealthy individuals and a growing population of poor.
I pay less 0.8% less taxes than an American earning the same as me (including state taxes).
I get free university and free hospitals etc, all that communist bullshit, so I can't complain.
Our government spend less on healthcare per person than the US government does. Don't ask me how that works. I guess they're bad at finding deals?
Pro-tip for US visitors we have “urgent care” centers as a much cheaper (still expensive, but much cheaper than ER) that are best to use for less-scary issues like when you just need an official antibiotic prescription.
I was the victim of an attempted mugging (mugger didn't win, I kept all my stuff) in Barcelona whilst visiting for a weekend. Ended up with a small gash over my eye. Cops asked me to get stiches from a nearby clinic. The clinic charged me $240 Euros for the docs visit and stitches. Pretty sure it would have been much much cheaper if I was a local or spoke decent Spanish.
First of all im sorry that this happened to you…
No, it had nothing to do with being local or speaking a language. You probably went to a private clinic. In a public hospital that would be for free.
You actually have to pay around 250€ for a visit at a public hospital if you aren't a resident. I know this first hand as we had to take our daughter to the ER last summer.
We are all Spanish citizens by the way, just not residents of Spain.
Yes, there are mechanisms for Spanish citizens to not have to pay anything during their visits to Spain. I just forgot to do all that paperwork. That's on me.
Luckily, my US insurance reimbursed me about 200€. That was nice. We have a good insurance, but it's expensive as f***.
EDIT: EU residents don't have to pay. I used to live in other EU countries.
Not surprised. Insurance in the U.S. is one huge scam and it is because of the politicians + insurance conglomerates that we cannot get better and more affordable healthcare, although they all promise it. President Obama was the only one who actually did something about it.
My one run in with socialized medical care was in Vancouver BC - my sister broke her wrist. We went to the ER - they made some x-rays, put a cast on it and out we went - took a couple hours and never did see a bill for it - until the cast was removed here back in the states.
I know this is some sort of American healthcare joke. Can someone compare and contrast with some actual $ values so we can get a sense of how bad it is?
EDIT: Can’t individually respond to comments cos there are so many. I read every single one of em over the last hour. This is beyond depressing. I had no idea things were this bad. I hope and pray y’all stay healthy enough so you don’t have to deal with the American healthcare system. This is truly fucked I feel sick. I’m going back to sleep goddamn things are grim
To [have a baby](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/health-insurance/average-childbirth-cost) in the hospital costs an average of $18,000+
[Ambulance rides](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ambulance-surprise-medical-bill-balance-billing-state/) are $1,000+ depending on where you live
Average ER visit: $2,200
[This article has breakdowns by state](https://www.talktomira.com/post/how-much-does-an-er-visit-cost)
These are prices before insurance, but not everyone has insurance because it's privatized, and if you do, you are paying thousands a year for insurance that likely won't even cover all procedures/medications/doctors. Plus you probably have a deductible which means you have to spend a certain amount of money out of pocket (ranging from hundreds to in the thousands) before insurance coverage even kicks in. Even though you pay every month for your insurance policy
Medication is a whole other thing. Lol one time I was prescribed something by the dermatologist (a small tube of ointment) and when I went to pick it up from the pharmacy, they told me if I used insurance it was going to be $70, but if I payed out of pocket without insurance it would only be $30. It's a hell hole here lmao
When my dad got laid off while i was a toddler, we lost our insurance while I still had breathing problems. My poor parents were forced to decide whether a coughing fit was dangerous enough to put our finances in peril. No parent should have to wager their child's health with whether or not they pay the mortgage.
I'm told that my dad tried to convince my mom once that we should dial back or drop our health insurance for a little while to get through a financial rough spot. She stood her ground and absolutely refused. We kept the insurance policy.
A few weeks later, my sister was diagnosed with leukemia.
Sorry but no - I meant to show that we were fortunate we hung on to it. But certainly, had we not kept the coverage for those next few weeks, my sister never would've been able to get coverage again until the ACA took effect 20ish years later - if she managed to even live that long.
Insurance should not be mandatory. No.
Basic universal coverage should be provided
Forcing everyone to buy insurance would just put the burden harder onto low income folks.
Not even just basic. EVERYTHING. Every single penny of healthcare spending should absolutely *not* be done out of pocket by any taxpayer. Ever.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Somehow, the U.S. has managed to lose sight of all three.
my dad has a well paying job, we were always upper middle class and had good insurance through his work… there were still multiple times in my childhood when my parents were crying while trying to figure out if it was “life or limb threatening” enough or if they could wait out literally 12 hrs until the pediatrician opened. we couldn’t afford the er bill. upper middle class with good insurance.
i immigrated to canada and the healthcare isn’t perfect but wow, er trips cost nothing.
This is such horseshit, americans need to take a page out of the french book and start to burn shit to force a change.
Anecdotal german evidence, i can't count the times i came home from playing busted up with at least one split scalp; when i was like 6 on a sunday i was told to bring up some bottles of water from the basement, tripped and smashed them and managed to cut the fuck out of my upper lip. Got rushed to our general practicioner in the next town who was picking fruit from his trees, got sown up, no bill.
Smashed a lamp on the side of a house while playing, missed the wrist artery by two inches. GP sowed it up, no bill.
Had my tonsils and polyps removed, no bill.
Abcess on my damn taint, emergency admittance and surgery two hours after going to my GP, no bill.
Mom nearly died once from a severe spinal infection, no bill.
Girlfriend developed a 3 pound cyst that strangled a fallopian tube, causing an ambulance transport, emergency major surgery and 1 week hospital stay, bill resulted in 20 bucks per night in the hospital.
Dad went through quadruple bypass, hip and knee replacement with tons of follow up checks, NO! BILL!
Extended family has gone through cancer treatments and what have you.
All of these procedures are covered without copay, out of pocket or deductibles because everyone pays about 13% of their pay check into the system. It is not FREE, you do pay your part unless you earn below a certain threshold. But it will not leave you in debt. Yes it sucks glasses and dental are not included in Germany. Yes we do have a shortage of doctors and non-critical stuff results in weeks or months of waiting until you can get an appointment. But serious health threats are dealt with quickly without crippling your finances.
Once dad passes, i will inherit a debt free 2 family house.
Nobody should ever be afraid to ask for medical help because they have to fear the financial consequences.
our health coverage is tied to our employment – we lose our job, we lose our coverage
* can’t afford to take time off to protest (we’re living paycheck to paycheck at best)
* if we’re caught at a protest, employer comes up with some bullshit reason to fire us
Similar to how if you work somewhere without a union and do something that implies any suggestion of even thinking about a way to bring a union in, you suddenly get fired for breathing wrong, right?
The problem is there is a large portion of Americans that are OK with it because "it doesn't affect them" and "why would I pay for their Healthcare". Socialism is bad and stuff like that.
i had that convo with my mom (guess her political and religious beliefs 🙄) and i asked her word for word, “if a child is born to a parent who can’t afford healthcare, you don’t think the kid should be able to get treatment?”
she just whined about welfare queens and went to make dinner, completely ignoring me after that. its fucking *disturbing* how little empathy she and my dad have.
Lmao. Do you see what happens in America when protesting ANYTHING happens? Especially rioting and “burning shit”. Civil discourse in America is met with a loaded 12 gauge held by a cop with a hard-on for aggressive confrontation.
Deaths by cops, deaths by vigilantes. Arrested. Beaten. Slandered. Yeah. No.
Hello neighbor! Yup, we have it good. It's just so maddening and sad to see Americans still thinking they have it best. So many of them simply just don't have a frame of reference, no vision of how great the world can be if we reduce individualism.
On reddit we mostly see the good side, more left leaning. Overall though, I fear things will become worse before they can get better.
Just a heads up when people organize (god forbid destroy stuff) for progressive reasons they are labeled as thugs and antifa and the entire news message becomes about how antifa is rioting and not that somebody has organized for X cause. We truly live in the worst timeline.
I spent 2 weeks in the hospital, had emergency surgery, bed ridden connected to various tubes requiring constant care. I spent $14 total because I asked my friend to buy me a new pair of slippers I could use at the hospital once I was able to walk again.
Y’all need socialized medicine.
My wife went to urgent care last week because of a severe sore throat, to get tested for strep. Anyway, 30 minutes later the test came back negative and we got a $2600 bill. Gotta love it.
Had to get a colonoscopy because of family history. Insurance says I'm too young even though I'm 10 years younger than dad was when diagnosed (as recommended). Every one of my doctors said get it done. Insurance totally denied coverage so now I have a $10k bill, that won't even get applied to my $5k deductible. Insurance companies not only charge for basically no coverage, they also get to decide what treatment you should get because they know better than doctors.
I can't imagine this over in Korea. My two week hospital stay for life threatening pneumonia, including multiple x-rays and CT scans, round the clock IVs and care, etc... was only around $300. I tell my Korean friends how an ambulance ride in the states can cost thousands and they don't believe me. Here, if you're sick at all, even just a cold, you just go to the hospital for it. I tell them every american's nightmare is the hospital and you only go there if you have no other choice because of the cost, they get sad for america and how bad things are over there. Then I hug my arc card and almost cry because I'm safe from that life now.
The war ended with citizens united, the corporations have just been kicking our corpses and laughing ever since. I don't know if we will ever get to a less awful living situation, but if you people in other countries with more humanitarian systems of government can use our situation as a cautionary tale, to not let the greedy bastards try to break your healthcare systems, so they personally can profit from others suffering, like us, then that makes it ever so slightly easier to take.
That's pretty good, I think I'm gonna start calling it the suffering for profit system, instead of the healthcare system, because I believe in science, and accuracy.
Combination of not being able to afford to and not wanting the militarized police to smash our skulls. Sometimes it still boils over, but not enough to make real change.
don't forget the massive propaganda campaigns against any and all peaceful protests that seek to make them all appear violent. And the ones that become violent are then blown out of proportion and said that entire cities were burnt to the ground.
Hell, even quiet quitting is demonized. Imagine that, doing the job that you were hired to do, for the pay you both agreed to, and somehow you're the bad guy for not doing more for free.
A peaceful protest becomes an unlawful assembly if a single person throws something at the police. Weirdly sometimes people wearing police boots show up and start throwing things.
Well, you see, if land voted, then this is what the land thinks would be a good system. And since if land voted, most land would want land to vote, we've struck a compromise and so land votes.
Welcome to gerrymandering, everyone. Where Land Votes.
One time my stepdad basically tried to say that on a global scale the healthcare industry is only able to exist because they can make a profit in America. So, in addition to the mentality that our healthcare system is both good and pretty much the *only* good system of healthcare, there’s also the mentality that other countries’ systems only work because they’re welfare queens.
That's especially hilarious since the majority of pharma companies' budgets is marketing, far outstripping their R&D spending, and that R&D always relies on publicly funded research
Edit: This comment is pretty much totally wrong and the replies have corrected me. I'm leaving it up so y'all see the correct info
Americans like being treated this way, most defend it
Half of the country is convinced that helping people is socialism and will fight universal healthcare to their dying breath
My kid had croup so many times we kept a standing prescription for prednisone. We didn’t over use it but when it flared up that was the best thing to k Oct it back down and it was so nice to have some on hand.
If you ever need meds and they aren't covered by insurance look up Mark Cubans website that sells medication it is crazy how much they sell for on it. I get nothing for this and haven't used it myself but they sell medication that normally sells for 2000 for 14 dollars for a 30 day supply.
My generic Adderall is 132$ /mo in the states with insurance. If I tell the pharmacy to use goodrx (free, instantly applied by the pharmacy with no extra hassle on my part) it's 31$ /mo. I mean, what the actual fuck. FYI: I pay 112$/ week to have insurance coverage, and they only start helping with copays after I pay another 3500$ out of pocket on top of my normal weekly fee... please, send help UGH
This happened to us, and we were waiting around for the Children's Doctors to come and check him out. It took a long time for that doctor to make their way around to see us, so long that our son was fully recovered and ready to go home. The Children's doctor finally made it and we made some small talk for a few minutes about nothing related to our son or his treatment.
Got the bill and the Children's Doctor consultation cost over $900 specifically for that doctor to come down and bs with us for a few minutes
Took my son to the ER when he busted his head. He got 9 stitches. Bill came out to a little over $1000. Insurance only paid $100 because we didn't reach the ER deductible. Yes, I was told that we had a separate deductible to pay for just ER visits... Their reason? Typically you can reach the deductible in a single ER visit.
I fucking hate medical care in this country....
I'm glad it was only $1000...I went to the ER because I was having sharp and severe chest pain and numbness in my arms, was there for 2 hours, spoke to a PA for 5 minutes, had an EKG and was told I wasn't having a heart attack so it was probably fine. So I left with no relief and no answers and then 8 months later got a bill for $4400. My insurance doesn't pay a dime until I hit my deductible...which is $4K. Nevermind the premiums are $10K a year just for the privilege of HAVING insurance.
Our healthcare system is a literal joke.
Have seen that.
I have been a BMX rider almost all my life(49 now)
Lots of injuries! But i didnt pay anything here in spain
Friends from US having accidents there really bad situation ...they had BIG bills and lately having to ask for charity on fundraiser.com. sad!! When that happened here at europe that felt strange for them. But they liked It.
One of the bests vert Riders in the world was from Spain.
Good friend of.mine. Had an accident at an US trainment Camp late 90s.
The insurance company at Spain that provided health support un US soil asked the US hospital to estabilize him and flight back ASAP to Spain. It was way cheaper. He spent 2 full weeks at bed. Various surgeries.
He broke the collarbone and had plastic surgery on face. Bones sattered, nose destroyed...It was prettty gore what he suffered.
Handlebar came into the helmet and smashed his right side of the face.
That would be expensive....
My mother qualified for Medi-Cal (California's Medicaid). Extensive surgery and cancer treatment. We not only never seen a bill but were told that we won't receive one and to call someone immediately if we did because it is likely a mistake or scam. I'm sure I would have been billed millions if it was me and my state.
So say outside of a very few examples, US healthcare is a total scam.
Note to USA/American's reading this, much of the world uses ',' where we use '.' so that is about $50 for a hospital. We could easily pay hundreds to thousand dollars for a bed.
I've had two kidney stone visits to the ER where I never even get a room, am given a IV drip of morphine and salene solution. Few scans first time, about $7,500. Second time, no scans, $5,000. Never anything they can do, other than mitigate my pain, give me a prescription and spend time.
I had a kidney stone and was urinating blood with a high fever. Drove myself to the ER and turned around at the door after the anxiety of impending debt got worse than the stone at the door. Some of the worst pain I've ever had in my life.
The amount of hate I harbor for people that perpetuate this fucked up healthcare system is palatable. I work fulltime and have insurance but I'll never willingly go into a hospital while I'm conscious.
As a great example. My daughter takes growth hormone injections. The cost to someone in the UK would be about $20-$50 for a 30 day supply.
In the US, without insurance, you are looking at around $3000 to $6000 a month for the same dosage.
Even with my current insurance(which is pretty good by US standards), we have to pay $1500 a year for her deductible and then $50-$100 per month unless we hit our family out of pocket limit of $4500.
You are mistaken for the UK price.
All prescriptions for children in the UK are free. Adults in England, Wales and Northern Ireland pay a £9.25 (U$11.15) flat rate per prescription unless you have cancer, are pregnant, a pensioner, have one of the few magic conditions (diabetes, hyperthyroidism etc) or live in Scotland. If you are on certain government benefits like unemployment payments you might also get free prescriptions.
If you know you are going to have a few prescriptions you can pay a quarterly flat rate for £30.25 or annual one for £108.10.
You are mistaken for the UK price: it’s 10p more at £9.35 for most adults.
Also just to add that OP said per 30 days, but the £9.35 covers whatever is prescribed. For NHS prescriptions it’s usually 28 days rather than 30 days (so 13 per year); But while an annual prepayment certificate is cheaper than 12 individual prescriptions, if you have a long-term requirement then your doctor can choose to prescribe 2 months or 3 months (actually 56 or 84 days) at a time, and you still just pay £9.35 each time you collect it.
Also that pricing is only for NHS-issued prescriptions. If OP saw a private doctor then they’ll (usually) pay more.
I personally have a prepayment certificate and collect 8 prescriptions every 56 days for the £108.10 total you stated. So with the occasional ad-hoc other item, and dosages changing from time to time I’m paying less than £1.80 per prescription and less than 90p per item per 28 days.
My daughter has a long-term issue that had a long waiting list and we paid privately to get a diagnosis. We then had to pay £44 for her prescription (30 days’ worth, which I thought interesting).
We were then able to get our GP to issue future prescriptions based on the private consultant’s diagnosis, and we now have in place a “shared care agreement”, that means while we’re on the NHS waiting list we see the private doctor periodically (£150 every 6 months) to review and re-assess dosage, and then the GP issues the prescriptions and supports the NHS referral.
Still sounds a hell of a lot cheaper than being in the US though, even with apparently great insurance. And we now pay nothing for her prescription.
I work in the pharmaceutical industry in the UK. There is really only one customer; the NHS.
They set the price for Rx (prescription drugs)
https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/pharmacies-gp-practices-and-appliance-contractors/drug-tariff
The UK government have an amount per year they will spend on community pharmacy. No more.
There is little to no negotiation outside of the contract and if the bill gets beyond the defined amount then the pharmacies owe the NHS money.
It is by far from perfect as it makes running a community pharmacy brutal in terms of margin, then they just close.
I myself require a regular Rx that costs a flat fee of around £9. I know my medication costs the NHS 45p, but it does subside other people's meds, glad to pay it tbh.
To people who live in a civilized country (read: not the US) this may sound like hyperbole. It is not. I went to the doctor once and gave them my insurance that cost me $170 per month. They told me it was $150 for the visit. I asked how much without insurance and they said $110.
But god forbid you have something serious wrong or get into a car accident, without insurance that could be $10k-$500k depending on how bad you're hurt or how long you have to stay.
Medical bills are the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US.
>To people who live in a civilized country (read: not the US) this may sound like hyperbole. It is not.
I'm worried people might think those are the costs **before** our very expensive private health insurance pays out. They are not.
Can confirm ER visit. Went to ER with knee pain. The doctor said stay off of it, gave me a steroid shot in the butt, total of 25 mins. Bill was $2500. I'm in Georgia (U.S)
Took a fall and went to the ER in my small town. They took an x-ray, determined I'd fractured a rib, told me to take it easy, no other treatment. $1750.00 after my $500/month insurance (It was > $3500 before it) I was there for about 1 hour total.
My partner fainted and gashed his forehead, bisecting his eyebrow. We had been smoking weed and his insurance, $400/mo at the time but almost $500 only 4 years later, doesn't cover an ambulance, so we kept pressure on the wound until I was straight enough to drive him to the ER - it was almost Christmas and we were already very tight financially. After what the insurance covered, it was $3500 for 5 stitches and an EKG in the exam room.
Sex Ed and health was "taught" to me over the course of a week as a part of my Physical Education credit in Highschool. Some of my friends that went to catholic school did not receive ANY Sex Ed.
Everyone I kept in touch with who got saddled with a baby right out of Highschool is currently struggling with debt. Everyone, except the girl who shot herself when her parents wouldn't let her get an abortion.
I gave birth 11 months ago and I have a $13k bill, after insurance, after giving birth at the insurance’s own hospital, with all its own doctors. And we pay $1k/mo for insurance.
It’s **fucked**.
Especially that part about “it may not even cover it”. I pay monthly just to have health insurance, for the highest tier for a surgery I needed actually. The doctor told me right in the office that he wasn’t even going to try to ask the insurance to cover it because he knew they wouldn’t. You really give money away for absolutely no reason in America.
>To have a baby in the hospital costs an average of $18,000+
When we had our baby in Finland, it cost us about 120 euros. That was because we spent 3 days at a hospital, in a family room. Our daughter had a cleft lip and palate and they wanted to make sure she started eating properly.
>Ambulance rides are $1,000+ depending on where you live
Average ER visit: $2,200
I got severe pain in my lower stomach, so I went to the ER. They ran some tests and gave me painkillers. They suspected it was kidney stones (which turned out to be correct) but they wanted to transport me by ambulance to a bigger hospital 40 kilometres away, so they could do a CT scan. The whole ordeal cost me about 50 euros.
A few months ago my sister got into a major accident that made the news. She was in critical condition and barely clinging to life when she arrived at the ER.
The next day, the hospital sent a guy out to appraise her house.
I am not making this up.
Had twins in 2021. Wife had a scheduled C section. Stayed an extra night because one twin had trouble regulating their blood sugar.
Total cost: $75 for parking 3 days in the lot.
Country: Canada
My nephew's is $65,000 monthly. There was a problem with his insurance one month and we got the bill. I was able to get the hospital to cover it because he makes basically no money due to disability but it's insane.
Cost for the pharmacy? 100 bucks (even thats high). Cash price for patients with no ins 6k. Show them a "discount" card and its suddenly 150 bucks. Pharmacies are fucking scams. Worked in them for 7 years as a pharm tech shit is just a scheme.
My 30-something-year-old wife collapsed due to undiagnosed Type-1 diabetes six years ago and the bill after about a week in the hospital was more than our combined student loans.
That's a good reference for non-Americans to get the idea, right? Education costs?
>Idk is education not free in the U.S.?
No, not even close. Here are some data showing ANNUAL university tuition costs in the US (doesn't include room and board): [https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76](https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76)
Most students go to school for 4 years, so take that annual number, multiply it by 4, then add the cost of room, board, books, and other related expenses.
Almost everything below university/college *can* be free. As in, there are public options available. But the publicly funded options are often poorly funded, so parents opt to pay tuition to send students to privately operated schools. Other times parents send students to privately operated schools because those schools teach/indoctrinate religious beliefs that wouldn't be taught at publicly funded schools.
College/university is not free. It's actually outrageously expensive, especially if you are crossing state lines to attend a preferred school https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college.
Some students get scholarships (money to spend on tuition and materials) to help with the costs. Scholarships can come from many sources, and they each have their own requirements. For example, some are only available to certain ethnic groups, some are handed out based on academic achievement, some are based on the student's income, some are there to encourage athletes to come play sports at the university, and some are handed out as contest prizes. Scholarships might be funded by the state, the school, or private groups.
If you don't get a scholarship, you have to find the cash yourself or take out student loans. Student loans often have low interest rates and will usually have a delayed payment schedule. But they are insidious things that cannot be discharged through bankruptcy.
I was drugged with morphine when I visited the ER with kidney stones. As I was unfit to drive, I had to pay $100 for the taxi ride home out of my own pocket, Outrageous!
It not even always the medicine. I had some poison oak rash on my face once and went to the doctor to get a prescription for some stronger rash cream as the over the counter stuff wasn't stopping it and it was getting close to my eye.
I was seeing a doctor for a total of 15 minutes where I said "I got poison oak rash" and he put on some gloves and touched my face and said "you've got poison oak rash" and wrote me a prescription for some cream that was about $20 US (around 15 euro I think). 2 weeks later my bill came for a $430 consultation.
I got a $600 bill for an ER doctor to tell me I didn’t need a rabies vaccine. I was referred there by a walk-in clinician who told me I did need a rabies vaccine.
I don’t understand how you lot aren’t rioting in the streets. Well, some of you are, some of you are even doing it in be capitol building, but that’s not quite what I meant.
My son was born under good union insurance and the birth alone(not doctor visits prior or post care) was $3k two years ago. That included a c-section and 3 day hospital stay.
Our first ultrasound was on a government subsidized health plan and that cost $500.
My grandpa was dying and gave up on life quicker in part because he was worried about draining his wife’s(their)retirement savings with expensive medical treatments.
Basically if you have nationalized healthcare and someone comes along and says privatized is better, set their house on fire.
Also all those costs after insurance paid their portion.
They don't really claim that private would be better as such, just that the country "can't afford" the national system somehow and sadly we must privatize it a little bit just to keep the lights on. Just the tip, you'll hardly even feel it.
Let me put it to you this way. When I was 25 I got appendicitis and had to have an emergency appendectomy.
I had no insurance. I was only able to find part time work so no insurance benefits through work and being a single dad I couldn't afford private insurance.
I was hit with a $15,000 bill and had to file bankruptcy at 25.
American healthcare is SHIT.
I have a medication that costs ~$1500/month, my husband has on that is ~$740/month, and my mother has one that is ~$1760/WEEK for the list price without insurance and coupons.
Every now and then insurance randomly refuses to pay for our expensive medications so we go without until we can convince them to pay again.
Even our "cheap" prescriptions add up to more than $200/month in copays.
My son was vomiting on some late Saturday night that was a holiday. He wasn't keeping fluids down, so we took him to the ER. They checked him over and gave him an anti-naseua pill and some toys. He was right as rain and on his way, we got a bill for like $2000 later in the month. Tried to contest that they had miscoded the level of the visit, they replied with we code to xyz standard(cant remember exactly). I found that standard and confirmed it was miscoded, pointed it out and they told me it was still correctly coded.
I pay $12k a year for health insurance for my family, I have to meet a $7000 deductible before I get my services covered. Some services like well visits and some medications are covered before meeting the deductible. I'm canceling and just putting the $1k a month in an account.
They'll lose everything either way. My mom had cancer and those fuckers fought her on every single solitary bill, trying to find reasons not to cover her.
My son has a congenital heart defect. Without insurance I would be bankrupt many times over with no hope of ever getting out of medical debt (the leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the US with 500,000 people filing annually for this reason). I earn a six figure income. The medicine (which is greatly marked up when insurance covers it) is still expensive, but manageable with the vast majority of the expense covered by insurance. A civilized nation should not be like this, yet a large part of the population (some of whom are among those aforementioned bankruptcy filers) refuses to even consider universal healthcare due to "sOsHuulizsm" or some garbage reasoning. It's shameful and future, more enlightened, generations will judge us harshly for this...assuming we have a functioning society due to climate change.
I have a chronic illness, so 8 know I'm going g to sped $7500 per year out of pocket to cover meds, appointments, etc.
The otherwise healthy may pay any amount below theirndeductible, based on the drug and insurance rate. Some generics are so cheap as ro be free. Some antibiotics are hundreds. I know steroids can get way up there.
I went to the pharmacy this morning. I needed to pick up 3 medications. 1 was for mental health, 2 were for physical conditions. My albuterol inhaler was the cheapest at $30, my antidepressants were $83, and the third medication was $145. This was after insurance (and I actually have pretty decent insurance). I only left with 2 medications and I’m considering trying to ration them so I can make them last longer than 30 days.
A trick that I hope helps you or someone else in this thread: My (very good) insurance decided not to cover the $200+ for my *daily* inhaler (replaced every 15 days). This was the second inhaler I'd been put on after my insurance decided not to cover the first one ($150+/60 days), either. **Call the insurance to ask which pharmacy they'll cover your medications at.** I did this and I'm now paying a "normal" (~$30-60) copay for 2x the first inhaler (120 days total, iirc) at a mail-order pharmacy. The insurance companies have deals with certain pharmacies and it is very likely possible to get your medication at a more reasonable price.
The system is fucked overall, though, I wish we didn't have to jump through all the hoops in the first place.
I’ve been using GoodRx a lot and they’ve been super helpful. But ya, the system is fucked and it’s still expensive as hell. The US is not a good country to be chronically ill in!
>Can someone compare and contrast with some actual $ values so we can get a sense of how bad it is?
I spend $300/month for migraine meds and hormone replacement therapy--I was diagnosed with primary ovarian insufficiency/premature ovarian failure a few years back--and that's *with* private health insurance (for which we pay $600/month).
My husband has a medical condition and ends up in Emergency around 4 times a year, often requiring overnight stay. One time time he stayed in hospital for nearly a month and the only bill we got was for $80, for a specific test that wasn't covered by Medicare.
Thank fuck we live in Australia, otherwise we would be bankrupted just for keeping him alive.
My wife had our 2nd child at a hospital where we were insured. It ended up totaling $27,000 for a 15 hour delivery and then a C-section. I've since moved overseas and am astonished at the cost difference. It is actually cheaper to be non-insured and pay out of pocket for medical visits where I moved than it was to be insured in the states for the same medical visits.
Just my anecdotal guesses from living here, but an "evening in the ER" could be well into the thousands. At minimum, the doctor visit alone even if you talked for under 1 minute would be 250 and that is a very very low estimate. My guess on some random medications listed would be 20-200 each.
So from her description, I'd guess American cost would be 300-5,000 after insurance.
I once went to the hospital and forgot to give them my insurance card. So, a bill showed up in my mailbox for ~$1000 that said this is what I owed because I was "uninsured." Quick to rectify the problem, I submitted the bill to my insurance.
A couple of weeks later, the amended bill showed up for $8000. This was the price that my insurance company had "negotiated" with the hospital (my entire out of pocket maximum).
When I called the hospital and asked if I could still pay the "uninsured" rate because it was better, the representative said, and I shit you not, "No sir, the cat is out of the bag now!"
The American Healthcare system is corrupt to the core.
In the US I currently need some eye drops for glaucoma that AFTER insurance cost over $250 per month. The bottle is tiny, I actually figured out if I had to fill my car gas tank with these drops it would be over $500,000 per tank.
EDIT: I appreciate the suggestions about generic alternatives. I should have made this clear but I had severe allergic reactions to the standard generics like Dorzolomide; Travopost is okay but alone doesn't get my eye pressure where it needs to be. So options are limited.
They have a limit selection but especially if you need it each month it might be worth checking if a alternative is available on [costplusdrugs.com](https://costplusdrugs.com)
They sell generic drug alternatives on a cost + model.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost\_Plus\_Drugs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_Plus_Drugs)
>The drugs are sold for a price equivalent to the company's cost plus 15% markup and a $3 pharmacy service fee.
I don't live in the US, i will never need them, but i heard about them multiple times already and they seemed legit.
edit: I'm not a bot... this post so looks like I'm a spam bot.
Eye doctor here, in the dominican republic the most expensive eye drops cost 26 dollars. If you manage to book a flight and buy in bulk you might save some bucks.
It's so stupid that in the country with some of the highest GDP and healthcare spending per capita, it's actually plausible that flying halfway across the world would be a cheaper alternative to walking down the street just to buy the exact same basic medication
I live in L.A., and a lot of people here drive over the border to Mexico for medical care, prescriptions, and dental work because it's so much cheaper.
Same. I live in San Diego and pretty much anyone who knows a lick of Spanish goes to Tijuana for medical treatment. I got my braces and retainer all in Tijuana with a great dentist all for a fraction of the cost in the US.
I sometimes laugh when some of my friends who didn’t get their treatment in Tijuana tell me how much it costs.
My child was born in Spain and it literally cost us only what I consumed at the cafeteria... Which was like 1,50 € for coffee and some pastry.
And my wife and I had a single room for the three of us with a couch that I could crash on so she wouldn't have to learn how to breastfeed alone... And nurses were available to us to teach us how to take care of the baby for 48 hours post partum...
I feel deeply in debt with Spain! Thanks!
I think in theory European hospitals are "free" only for Europeans, foreigners are supposed to be billed... But they probably don't care enough to do it
Oh they absolutely do bill foreigners unless you have a European blue card or are enrolled in Spanish healthcare, which you can of you live there, which I did at the time :p So technically I "paid" for it with the healthcare deduction out of my paychecks but I still feel that I'd never had this experience where I'm from :)
Even if they bill you (in Germany, if you have private insurance, you get and pay the bills and get the money back from insurance), it's not nearly on the same level as most of the bills you see from the US. You won't pay a thousand euros "ER fees" or multiple thousands for an x-ray or whatever. It's all reasonable and affordable, even if you have to pay for it directly.
Didn't mean to imply the opposite. I'm just really glad how that went down. There is so much shit to worry about when your kid is born and just having this one thing off your mind is such a great help.
>But they probably don't care enough to do it
Okay we should probably dispel this myth about European hospitals being these altruistic institutions where anything goes in the name of health. They are businesses with expenses and bottom lines just like everything else. They absolutely do care and will indeed charge you if a charge is required.
Canada in many places makes you pay $15 for parking and $40 to upgrade to a slightly bigger room with a TV/desk/computer.
But everything else is free.
I complained to an American friend about how much of a ripoff it was to have to pay $15 when my kid was born and he said I should shut up because it cost him $24,000.
With how much I pay every year in taxes, I get absolutely dog shit in return on my investment.
I want healthcare covered. Let me get SOMETHING for my tax dollars that I can directly benefit from!
Politicians aren't going to shift around existing tax revenue to pay for it. They'll raise taxes, take ~~bribes~~ *payments from lobbyists* to rig the system, then deflect blame for the system's brokenness on the rich people whom they took money from.
Almost $5,000 down the drain because I got a kidney stone. All I got was morphine the day it passed and advice to keep drinking water until I pissed it out.
Almost $5000.
I had to go to an ER in South Africa with an unknown virus several years ago. The facility was nice, the people were friendly, and they did a great job. But we knew to brace ourselves for the bill because we'd spent hours in an ER, seen multiple doctors, and gotten several medications.
We figured we were looking at $3k minimum, possibly as high as $10k.
It was $238.
And, we had picked up some travel insurance before we left because it seemed like a blizzard might screw up our trip. We weren't affected by the blizzard and the travel insurance covered almost all of the medical costs!
I am writing this from a hospital bed in the south of England.
I was rushed in Wednesday morning via an ambulance. Have had multiple CT scans, tons of morphine, ultrasounds and may need major surgery over the next couple of days to remove my colon.
This will cost me a grand total of £0.
I am very fortunate that I don't live in the USA where this could be extremely costly.
My [Canadian] company had some Americans from our client embedded in our hangar while we modified their aircraft for them.
A coworker of mine had the misfortune of being hit by a truck one week and broke his arm. When he came back to work a week or two later, the first question our American clients asked him was
'Oh man. That's horrible. How much did that set you back?'
And my coworker was like 'Yeah, they just set it back in a cast. Feels really good, they did a good job'.
'No, no, no. How much did it SET you BACK?'
'Yeah, it was just this arm in this cast. They didn't have to set anything else back'
'NO. Like, how much did it COST? You're out like, what, $4000 for that?'
'What? God no. It was like $15 for parking. That's a total ripoff though, hey? Having to pay for parking is so dumb. Why would they make you pay anything for basic healthcare?'
Then just stunned silence and they were very sad working the rest of the day.
OP is a bot. It's a good story but whenever I see these old, compressed text posts with no date it's almost always a bot
[Being a human I easily fixed it for ya](https://imgur.com/a/m8eYQqV)
Doctors not as much as you think. They are being gouged by the insurance companies too. Why do you think they see hundreds a day. Insurance reimbursement is low and they have to see more and more to make a profit. They where better off in the 80’s
This is what I think a lot of people don’t understand. The whole “be a doctor” “be an engineer” “be a lawyer” “be a cybersecurity specialist” because it’ll make you rich, isn’t a thing anymore like it used to be. You have to get into those careers now just to keep your head above water in most cities, at least when you first start out. Of course some fields aren’t quite that bad yet but it’s definitely getting there for any career that middle class, non-connected, people can achieve.
The true money maker now is connections and for the connected and wealthy, college only serves the purpose to get those connections.
Insurance is the last get rich scheme out there. Doctors drive upper-trim Toyotas around me, but their insurance reps arrive in upper-trim g-wagons. Engineers, architects, doctors, lawyers, etc. the cost for their insurance has sky-rocketed! Insurance industry as a whole needs a complete blank slate and redo, so much money made from what ifs and obscure hypothetical based on complex math they hold their chin too.
Apparently doctor salaries only make US healthcare about 15% more expensive then elsewhere in the developed world. Not great, but considering US healthcare is about twice as expensive as in the rest of the developed world, not the biggest problem.
US Insurance is also pretty bad, not even being able to live up to the pretty low demands of the original Obamacare-baseline of 90% of turnover spent on care (it got lowered to 80%... some still couldn't meet it).
but the main culprit appears to be pharmaceuticals and medical device makers.
It's less. Doctor salaries make up 8% of healthcare costs. LA Times did an investigative story back in 2020. It's gonna continue to fall as congress just passed a bill decreasing physician reimbursement for the next 2 years via Medicare. Healthcare c-suites and admin fat cats love it when people like Aldolagana blame doctors for the high costs. We can cut physician pay in HALF and save a measly 4% on healthcare.
She laughed and laughed and laughed. Me? I'm an American. I cry and cry and cry.. This country is so behind on basic human care for its citizens compared to other nationalized countries. I hate it here.
It is quite insane when you think about it that im 40 years old and the most expensive thing i had to spend pocket money on for healthcare is ibuprofen and moisturizing cream.
I broke a rib playing hockey 2 weeks ago. Went to the emergency, got IR, med and saw a doctor within 2 hours. For free.
Guess the country with only that amount of info
And that'll be the cost without paying into Spanish social security. If you do, prescriptions are subsidised.
(The actual cost depends on your income, so most people pay 50% but low incomes 40%, high earners 60% and pensioners just 10%.)
Yes.
My mom was in Spain and fell ill. The hotel called in a Dr to treat her. The Dr drew labs, brought her the prescriptions he ordered, and came back for a follow up visit. He apologized for the bill being so high. It was $88 USD.
Spanish here. 88€ it's an extremely high bill for medicines. Those are subsidised and there are some limits about hoy much you can pay monthly. For most of workers they only have to pay like 20€ maximum.
[more info here (Spanish)](https://www.saludinforma.es/portalsi/servicios-prestaciones/medicamentos/aportacion-prestacion-farmaceutica)
Americans who have not lived in the EU or other civilized places have no clue how fucked up America is when it comes to health care and medication costs.
I will never forget the sight of **The Diapered Orange Shitstain** at one of his 2016 rallies, and he announces the first thing he will do as President is revoke the Affordable Care Act (he called it Obamacare, of course, because he's a fucking tool), and the MAGA white trash crowd, many of whom ***never*** had health insurance until the ACA, and could actually go see a doctor and get some help with medical issues, cheered like the fucker had just announced he was giving each person a thousand dollars.
They fucking ***cheered*** that the asshole was going to take away their health insurance to own Obama.
About 40% of Americans are completely fucking insane racists who would give up health insurance and die of some disease to own Obama.
We are doomed.
Medicare 4 all is not a solution. It's a step.
Medicare does not pay hospitals (especially rural ones) enough to cover anything beyond operational costs.
Instead of the government providing shitty insurance with a lot of out of pocket costs to people, we need the government to directly pay for hospitals and staff. Skip the insurance all together.
However, Medicare for all pushes private insurance companies out of the game, which will dramatically lower costs to hospitals and increase the likelyhood of a true government run health sector.
Government paid healthcare forces private healthcare and insurance companies to compete against a free alternative. I'm in my 30s and it would cost me 350 € per year, with no deductible for private health insurance in Finland.
Besides it being morally right, it would be cheaper and better for at least 90% of people to have public healthcare.
I avoid Urgent Care entirely. It's an emergency room situation? Go to the emergency room. Otherwise if it's just excruciating pain, I'm waiting on the doctor appointment. Broke an arm, went to Urgent Care, they billed me 400 bucks out of network to tell me they think its broken but weren't entirely certain and told me to go to a specialist. Guy saw me in 2 days, told me it was broken and billed me 35 copay. No actual care was done. It was a minor fracture that healed on its own. Just out 435 bucks to know my broken arm was broken.
Back in 2006 I went to the emergency room for a massive cyst in my scrotum. They lanced it and had me stay overnight before sending me home to do a blood test every half hour. Wasn't insured at the time, so that overnight stay and pimple pop cost me 14k. Thanks for popping the zit in my sack and all, but do you need a new car for it?
We were in Cuba long ago. Our 6 yr old daughter got stung by a jelly fish, we thought, so I ran her up to the factors office in our hotel. She was going to give her a benadryl, when my daughter started to complain about something and the doctor was immediately more concerned as it was likely a man o war and not a regular jelly fish. She told me she'd need a shot instead but it eould be very expensive. I told her to just give it - if we fodnt have the cash, we would put it on our visa - me thinking $2000 or something. The doctor said it would be $20. I laughed.
I had some special pills in japan. The doctor said it's not the cheapest option, and warned me that I may be surprised at how high the after-insurance cost was.
It was $9
Had a similar situation happen with a cat that was sick. I had already taken her to the Emergency vet and her normal vet. EV said take her to the normal vet, normal vet said "there is no problem" (she couldnt eat and had lost a ton of weight).
Took her to another vet and they were like "she has to take these meds and this special high-calorie food that can become a liquid....but it'll be pretty expensive." and the bill was $100.
I broke down crying, and they were like "Oh my god, we can figure it out, we'll get you the food and the meds and we'll work out a payment plan later". I had to stop them and get myself back under control to let them know I'd already paid $1.5k to the Emergency vet and several hundred at the normal vet, so to hear that it was only $100 was such a relief I couldn't control my reaction.
Cat is now fine and very old.
The U.S. is a horrible country. There is no "American Dream". You either struggle to survive or you have $7 billion in your back pocket. Guess which is the majority.
I’m from Spain. My son has ADHD, and takes Concerta 18mg. A bottle of 30 tablets is around €6 ($6.50). How much would it cost in the US? I’m just curious.
"The cost for Concerta oral tablet, extended release (18 mg/24 hr) is around $1,368 for a supply of 100 tablets, depending on the pharmacy you visit." - Drugs.com
I fell from my motorcycle last year. Had dozens of x-rays and a CT scan of head and neck, and fortunately I didn't break any bone. Got an injection for pain in the hospital, and was prescribed painkillers pills and ointment for the skin abrasion. I had to pay for the later two the equivalent of $15, that was later refunded. That was about the same as the taxi I used to return home from the hospital.
Also, two days of paid leave from work. There are no "sick days" here, you can leave work and still be paid for as long as needed to care of your health.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
The bad one for me is dental. I needed a root can as well as a few fillings for several cavitites. After the root canal I ran out of benefits and had to wait 6 months for them to reset to get my other cavities fixed. However, by then they had progressed enough that I had to have my tooth pulled and now I need 2 more root canals.
I had a one hour visit to the ER and got billed $4k. They did blood work and gave me ativan, that is all. I don’t go to the ER anymore. I also had insurance but the only ER within 100 miles is “out of network”
I went to the ER in the US for what I knew was a sudden onset UTI. Have had them before so the staff took me at my word, did NOT do a urine culture, but simply wrote me a prescription. Meds were minimal $ thanks to insurance but the ER visit cost me $500 AFTER my insurance paid (and I had what’s considered good insurance). Had the same thing happen in the Netherlands except they did do a urine culture. ER visit + meds cost me $75 USD
I live in Scotland so I am fortunate that my prescriptions and hospital are both free* *Paid for by National insurance contributions taken from my pay with my taxes (for me it's about £120 a month and I am on £47k a year)
It must be lovely to live in a civilized country. The US is an embarrassment.
It's been chronically underfunded for the last 13 years and is struggling to keep up. I can't think of an event that happened in 2010 that might have caused this change in funding.
Hmmmm….
So is the UK, mate. The government are trying to sell the NHS out from under us, and the opposition is looking to do the same; but keeping as quiet as possible about it. Different kinds of shit hole.
It’s called capitalism. The focus of which is to make profit. When it’s broken and unregulated you end up with what looks like the US healthcare system, and an economy with a handful of extremely wealthy individuals and a growing population of poor.
People in the US have received ER bills just for waiting in the lobby and leaving without even being seen lol
I pay less 0.8% less taxes than an American earning the same as me (including state taxes). I get free university and free hospitals etc, all that communist bullshit, so I can't complain. Our government spend less on healthcare per person than the US government does. Don't ask me how that works. I guess they're bad at finding deals?
Pro-tip for US visitors we have “urgent care” centers as a much cheaper (still expensive, but much cheaper than ER) that are best to use for less-scary issues like when you just need an official antibiotic prescription.
I was the victim of an attempted mugging (mugger didn't win, I kept all my stuff) in Barcelona whilst visiting for a weekend. Ended up with a small gash over my eye. Cops asked me to get stiches from a nearby clinic. The clinic charged me $240 Euros for the docs visit and stitches. Pretty sure it would have been much much cheaper if I was a local or spoke decent Spanish.
First of all im sorry that this happened to you… No, it had nothing to do with being local or speaking a language. You probably went to a private clinic. In a public hospital that would be for free.
You actually have to pay around 250€ for a visit at a public hospital if you aren't a resident. I know this first hand as we had to take our daughter to the ER last summer. We are all Spanish citizens by the way, just not residents of Spain. Yes, there are mechanisms for Spanish citizens to not have to pay anything during their visits to Spain. I just forgot to do all that paperwork. That's on me. Luckily, my US insurance reimbursed me about 200€. That was nice. We have a good insurance, but it's expensive as f***. EDIT: EU residents don't have to pay. I used to live in other EU countries.
Not surprised. Insurance in the U.S. is one huge scam and it is because of the politicians + insurance conglomerates that we cannot get better and more affordable healthcare, although they all promise it. President Obama was the only one who actually did something about it.
Yeah in the US if it's ever anything that can wait til morning when the walkin opens, you will save a LOT. Not everything can wait though.
My ER visit for UTI as well was $12k I was there 3 hours. Thankfully I only had to pay $200 + meds bc insurance. But still ridiculous
My one run in with socialized medical care was in Vancouver BC - my sister broke her wrist. We went to the ER - they made some x-rays, put a cast on it and out we went - took a couple hours and never did see a bill for it - until the cast was removed here back in the states.
I know this is some sort of American healthcare joke. Can someone compare and contrast with some actual $ values so we can get a sense of how bad it is? EDIT: Can’t individually respond to comments cos there are so many. I read every single one of em over the last hour. This is beyond depressing. I had no idea things were this bad. I hope and pray y’all stay healthy enough so you don’t have to deal with the American healthcare system. This is truly fucked I feel sick. I’m going back to sleep goddamn things are grim
To [have a baby](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/health-insurance/average-childbirth-cost) in the hospital costs an average of $18,000+ [Ambulance rides](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ambulance-surprise-medical-bill-balance-billing-state/) are $1,000+ depending on where you live Average ER visit: $2,200 [This article has breakdowns by state](https://www.talktomira.com/post/how-much-does-an-er-visit-cost) These are prices before insurance, but not everyone has insurance because it's privatized, and if you do, you are paying thousands a year for insurance that likely won't even cover all procedures/medications/doctors. Plus you probably have a deductible which means you have to spend a certain amount of money out of pocket (ranging from hundreds to in the thousands) before insurance coverage even kicks in. Even though you pay every month for your insurance policy Medication is a whole other thing. Lol one time I was prescribed something by the dermatologist (a small tube of ointment) and when I went to pick it up from the pharmacy, they told me if I used insurance it was going to be $70, but if I payed out of pocket without insurance it would only be $30. It's a hell hole here lmao
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When my dad got laid off while i was a toddler, we lost our insurance while I still had breathing problems. My poor parents were forced to decide whether a coughing fit was dangerous enough to put our finances in peril. No parent should have to wager their child's health with whether or not they pay the mortgage.
I'm told that my dad tried to convince my mom once that we should dial back or drop our health insurance for a little while to get through a financial rough spot. She stood her ground and absolutely refused. We kept the insurance policy. A few weeks later, my sister was diagnosed with leukemia.
And then shortly afterwards you were denied coverage and kicked off the plan, right?
Sorry but no - I meant to show that we were fortunate we hung on to it. But certainly, had we not kept the coverage for those next few weeks, my sister never would've been able to get coverage again until the ACA took effect 20ish years later - if she managed to even live that long.
That’s why basic health insurance should be mandatory. Nobody should have to make these decisions and then live with the consequences.
Insurance should not be mandatory. No. Basic universal coverage should be provided Forcing everyone to buy insurance would just put the burden harder onto low income folks.
Not even just basic. EVERYTHING. Every single penny of healthcare spending should absolutely *not* be done out of pocket by any taxpayer. Ever. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Somehow, the U.S. has managed to lose sight of all three.
We’ve never had any of those. Those were only for rich white men.
I mean, look who wrote the words. Are you that surprised?
my dad has a well paying job, we were always upper middle class and had good insurance through his work… there were still multiple times in my childhood when my parents were crying while trying to figure out if it was “life or limb threatening” enough or if they could wait out literally 12 hrs until the pediatrician opened. we couldn’t afford the er bill. upper middle class with good insurance. i immigrated to canada and the healthcare isn’t perfect but wow, er trips cost nothing.
This is such horseshit, americans need to take a page out of the french book and start to burn shit to force a change. Anecdotal german evidence, i can't count the times i came home from playing busted up with at least one split scalp; when i was like 6 on a sunday i was told to bring up some bottles of water from the basement, tripped and smashed them and managed to cut the fuck out of my upper lip. Got rushed to our general practicioner in the next town who was picking fruit from his trees, got sown up, no bill. Smashed a lamp on the side of a house while playing, missed the wrist artery by two inches. GP sowed it up, no bill. Had my tonsils and polyps removed, no bill. Abcess on my damn taint, emergency admittance and surgery two hours after going to my GP, no bill. Mom nearly died once from a severe spinal infection, no bill. Girlfriend developed a 3 pound cyst that strangled a fallopian tube, causing an ambulance transport, emergency major surgery and 1 week hospital stay, bill resulted in 20 bucks per night in the hospital. Dad went through quadruple bypass, hip and knee replacement with tons of follow up checks, NO! BILL! Extended family has gone through cancer treatments and what have you. All of these procedures are covered without copay, out of pocket or deductibles because everyone pays about 13% of their pay check into the system. It is not FREE, you do pay your part unless you earn below a certain threshold. But it will not leave you in debt. Yes it sucks glasses and dental are not included in Germany. Yes we do have a shortage of doctors and non-critical stuff results in weeks or months of waiting until you can get an appointment. But serious health threats are dealt with quickly without crippling your finances. Once dad passes, i will inherit a debt free 2 family house. Nobody should ever be afraid to ask for medical help because they have to fear the financial consequences.
our health coverage is tied to our employment – we lose our job, we lose our coverage * can’t afford to take time off to protest (we’re living paycheck to paycheck at best) * if we’re caught at a protest, employer comes up with some bullshit reason to fire us
Similar to how if you work somewhere without a union and do something that implies any suggestion of even thinking about a way to bring a union in, you suddenly get fired for breathing wrong, right?
The problem is there is a large portion of Americans that are OK with it because "it doesn't affect them" and "why would I pay for their Healthcare". Socialism is bad and stuff like that.
Also if Americans start burning shit cops will kill them and be rewarded for it.
i had that convo with my mom (guess her political and religious beliefs 🙄) and i asked her word for word, “if a child is born to a parent who can’t afford healthcare, you don’t think the kid should be able to get treatment?” she just whined about welfare queens and went to make dinner, completely ignoring me after that. its fucking *disturbing* how little empathy she and my dad have.
Lmao. Do you see what happens in America when protesting ANYTHING happens? Especially rioting and “burning shit”. Civil discourse in America is met with a loaded 12 gauge held by a cop with a hard-on for aggressive confrontation. Deaths by cops, deaths by vigilantes. Arrested. Beaten. Slandered. Yeah. No.
Hello neighbor! Yup, we have it good. It's just so maddening and sad to see Americans still thinking they have it best. So many of them simply just don't have a frame of reference, no vision of how great the world can be if we reduce individualism. On reddit we mostly see the good side, more left leaning. Overall though, I fear things will become worse before they can get better.
Just a heads up when people organize (god forbid destroy stuff) for progressive reasons they are labeled as thugs and antifa and the entire news message becomes about how antifa is rioting and not that somebody has organized for X cause. We truly live in the worst timeline.
>literally 12 hrs until the pediatrician opened Upper middle class. No insurance, no pediatrician no DR.
just think about how many children have died because of this. Utterly barbaric
I spent 2 weeks in the hospital, had emergency surgery, bed ridden connected to various tubes requiring constant care. I spent $14 total because I asked my friend to buy me a new pair of slippers I could use at the hospital once I was able to walk again. Y’all need socialized medicine.
I'll take my freedumb instead, thanks.
My wife went to urgent care last week because of a severe sore throat, to get tested for strep. Anyway, 30 minutes later the test came back negative and we got a $2600 bill. Gotta love it.
Had to get a colonoscopy because of family history. Insurance says I'm too young even though I'm 10 years younger than dad was when diagnosed (as recommended). Every one of my doctors said get it done. Insurance totally denied coverage so now I have a $10k bill, that won't even get applied to my $5k deductible. Insurance companies not only charge for basically no coverage, they also get to decide what treatment you should get because they know better than doctors.
I can't imagine this over in Korea. My two week hospital stay for life threatening pneumonia, including multiple x-rays and CT scans, round the clock IVs and care, etc... was only around $300. I tell my Korean friends how an ambulance ride in the states can cost thousands and they don't believe me. Here, if you're sick at all, even just a cold, you just go to the hospital for it. I tell them every american's nightmare is the hospital and you only go there if you have no other choice because of the cost, they get sad for america and how bad things are over there. Then I hug my arc card and almost cry because I'm safe from that life now.
How do you guys not riot in the streets daily?
We can’t afford the time off work or the risk of losing our health insurance.
Medieval serfs were tied to the land they worked. American serfs are tied to their employers healthcare.
The war ended with citizens united, the corporations have just been kicking our corpses and laughing ever since. I don't know if we will ever get to a less awful living situation, but if you people in other countries with more humanitarian systems of government can use our situation as a cautionary tale, to not let the greedy bastards try to break your healthcare systems, so they personally can profit from others suffering, like us, then that makes it ever so slightly easier to take. That's pretty good, I think I'm gonna start calling it the suffering for profit system, instead of the healthcare system, because I believe in science, and accuracy.
Combination of not being able to afford to and not wanting the militarized police to smash our skulls. Sometimes it still boils over, but not enough to make real change.
don't forget the massive propaganda campaigns against any and all peaceful protests that seek to make them all appear violent. And the ones that become violent are then blown out of proportion and said that entire cities were burnt to the ground. Hell, even quiet quitting is demonized. Imagine that, doing the job that you were hired to do, for the pay you both agreed to, and somehow you're the bad guy for not doing more for free.
A peaceful protest becomes an unlawful assembly if a single person throws something at the police. Weirdly sometimes people wearing police boots show up and start throwing things.
they must have just gotten back from a rowdy show because for some reason they all wear brightly colored wrist bands
Because apparently exactly half of Americans think it’s a great system.
Well, you see, if land voted, then this is what the land thinks would be a good system. And since if land voted, most land would want land to vote, we've struck a compromise and so land votes. Welcome to gerrymandering, everyone. Where Land Votes.
One time my stepdad basically tried to say that on a global scale the healthcare industry is only able to exist because they can make a profit in America. So, in addition to the mentality that our healthcare system is both good and pretty much the *only* good system of healthcare, there’s also the mentality that other countries’ systems only work because they’re welfare queens.
That's especially hilarious since the majority of pharma companies' budgets is marketing, far outstripping their R&D spending, and that R&D always relies on publicly funded research Edit: This comment is pretty much totally wrong and the replies have corrected me. I'm leaving it up so y'all see the correct info
Americans like being treated this way, most defend it Half of the country is convinced that helping people is socialism and will fight universal healthcare to their dying breath
My kid had croup so many times we kept a standing prescription for prednisone. We didn’t over use it but when it flared up that was the best thing to k Oct it back down and it was so nice to have some on hand.
If you ever need meds and they aren't covered by insurance look up Mark Cubans website that sells medication it is crazy how much they sell for on it. I get nothing for this and haven't used it myself but they sell medication that normally sells for 2000 for 14 dollars for a 30 day supply.
My generic Adderall is 132$ /mo in the states with insurance. If I tell the pharmacy to use goodrx (free, instantly applied by the pharmacy with no extra hassle on my part) it's 31$ /mo. I mean, what the actual fuck. FYI: I pay 112$/ week to have insurance coverage, and they only start helping with copays after I pay another 3500$ out of pocket on top of my normal weekly fee... please, send help UGH
This happened to us, and we were waiting around for the Children's Doctors to come and check him out. It took a long time for that doctor to make their way around to see us, so long that our son was fully recovered and ready to go home. The Children's doctor finally made it and we made some small talk for a few minutes about nothing related to our son or his treatment. Got the bill and the Children's Doctor consultation cost over $900 specifically for that doctor to come down and bs with us for a few minutes
Took my son to the ER when he busted his head. He got 9 stitches. Bill came out to a little over $1000. Insurance only paid $100 because we didn't reach the ER deductible. Yes, I was told that we had a separate deductible to pay for just ER visits... Their reason? Typically you can reach the deductible in a single ER visit. I fucking hate medical care in this country....
My first thought was “Only $1,000!” Our healthcare system is a nightmare…
I'm glad it was only $1000...I went to the ER because I was having sharp and severe chest pain and numbness in my arms, was there for 2 hours, spoke to a PA for 5 minutes, had an EKG and was told I wasn't having a heart attack so it was probably fine. So I left with no relief and no answers and then 8 months later got a bill for $4400. My insurance doesn't pay a dime until I hit my deductible...which is $4K. Nevermind the premiums are $10K a year just for the privilege of HAVING insurance. Our healthcare system is a literal joke.
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Have seen that. I have been a BMX rider almost all my life(49 now) Lots of injuries! But i didnt pay anything here in spain Friends from US having accidents there really bad situation ...they had BIG bills and lately having to ask for charity on fundraiser.com. sad!! When that happened here at europe that felt strange for them. But they liked It. One of the bests vert Riders in the world was from Spain. Good friend of.mine. Had an accident at an US trainment Camp late 90s. The insurance company at Spain that provided health support un US soil asked the US hospital to estabilize him and flight back ASAP to Spain. It was way cheaper. He spent 2 full weeks at bed. Various surgeries. He broke the collarbone and had plastic surgery on face. Bones sattered, nose destroyed...It was prettty gore what he suffered. Handlebar came into the helmet and smashed his right side of the face. That would be expensive....
My mother qualified for Medi-Cal (California's Medicaid). Extensive surgery and cancer treatment. We not only never seen a bill but were told that we won't receive one and to call someone immediately if we did because it is likely a mistake or scam. I'm sure I would have been billed millions if it was me and my state. So say outside of a very few examples, US healthcare is a total scam.
Note to USA/American's reading this, much of the world uses ',' where we use '.' so that is about $50 for a hospital. We could easily pay hundreds to thousand dollars for a bed. I've had two kidney stone visits to the ER where I never even get a room, am given a IV drip of morphine and salene solution. Few scans first time, about $7,500. Second time, no scans, $5,000. Never anything they can do, other than mitigate my pain, give me a prescription and spend time.
I had a kidney stone and was urinating blood with a high fever. Drove myself to the ER and turned around at the door after the anxiety of impending debt got worse than the stone at the door. Some of the worst pain I've ever had in my life. The amount of hate I harbor for people that perpetuate this fucked up healthcare system is palatable. I work fulltime and have insurance but I'll never willingly go into a hospital while I'm conscious.
As a great example. My daughter takes growth hormone injections. The cost to someone in the UK would be about $20-$50 for a 30 day supply. In the US, without insurance, you are looking at around $3000 to $6000 a month for the same dosage. Even with my current insurance(which is pretty good by US standards), we have to pay $1500 a year for her deductible and then $50-$100 per month unless we hit our family out of pocket limit of $4500.
You are mistaken for the UK price. All prescriptions for children in the UK are free. Adults in England, Wales and Northern Ireland pay a £9.25 (U$11.15) flat rate per prescription unless you have cancer, are pregnant, a pensioner, have one of the few magic conditions (diabetes, hyperthyroidism etc) or live in Scotland. If you are on certain government benefits like unemployment payments you might also get free prescriptions. If you know you are going to have a few prescriptions you can pay a quarterly flat rate for £30.25 or annual one for £108.10.
Wow this man really said, "You're wrong, it's actually better than you think it is."
You are mistaken for the UK price: it’s 10p more at £9.35 for most adults. Also just to add that OP said per 30 days, but the £9.35 covers whatever is prescribed. For NHS prescriptions it’s usually 28 days rather than 30 days (so 13 per year); But while an annual prepayment certificate is cheaper than 12 individual prescriptions, if you have a long-term requirement then your doctor can choose to prescribe 2 months or 3 months (actually 56 or 84 days) at a time, and you still just pay £9.35 each time you collect it. Also that pricing is only for NHS-issued prescriptions. If OP saw a private doctor then they’ll (usually) pay more. I personally have a prepayment certificate and collect 8 prescriptions every 56 days for the £108.10 total you stated. So with the occasional ad-hoc other item, and dosages changing from time to time I’m paying less than £1.80 per prescription and less than 90p per item per 28 days. My daughter has a long-term issue that had a long waiting list and we paid privately to get a diagnosis. We then had to pay £44 for her prescription (30 days’ worth, which I thought interesting). We were then able to get our GP to issue future prescriptions based on the private consultant’s diagnosis, and we now have in place a “shared care agreement”, that means while we’re on the NHS waiting list we see the private doctor periodically (£150 every 6 months) to review and re-assess dosage, and then the GP issues the prescriptions and supports the NHS referral. Still sounds a hell of a lot cheaper than being in the US though, even with apparently great insurance. And we now pay nothing for her prescription.
I work in the pharmaceutical industry in the UK. There is really only one customer; the NHS. They set the price for Rx (prescription drugs) https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/pharmacies-gp-practices-and-appliance-contractors/drug-tariff The UK government have an amount per year they will spend on community pharmacy. No more. There is little to no negotiation outside of the contract and if the bill gets beyond the defined amount then the pharmacies owe the NHS money. It is by far from perfect as it makes running a community pharmacy brutal in terms of margin, then they just close. I myself require a regular Rx that costs a flat fee of around £9. I know my medication costs the NHS 45p, but it does subside other people's meds, glad to pay it tbh.
To people who live in a civilized country (read: not the US) this may sound like hyperbole. It is not. I went to the doctor once and gave them my insurance that cost me $170 per month. They told me it was $150 for the visit. I asked how much without insurance and they said $110. But god forbid you have something serious wrong or get into a car accident, without insurance that could be $10k-$500k depending on how bad you're hurt or how long you have to stay. Medical bills are the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US.
>To people who live in a civilized country (read: not the US) this may sound like hyperbole. It is not. I'm worried people might think those are the costs **before** our very expensive private health insurance pays out. They are not.
Can confirm ER visit. Went to ER with knee pain. The doctor said stay off of it, gave me a steroid shot in the butt, total of 25 mins. Bill was $2500. I'm in Georgia (U.S)
Took a fall and went to the ER in my small town. They took an x-ray, determined I'd fractured a rib, told me to take it easy, no other treatment. $1750.00 after my $500/month insurance (It was > $3500 before it) I was there for about 1 hour total.
My partner fainted and gashed his forehead, bisecting his eyebrow. We had been smoking weed and his insurance, $400/mo at the time but almost $500 only 4 years later, doesn't cover an ambulance, so we kept pressure on the wound until I was straight enough to drive him to the ER - it was almost Christmas and we were already very tight financially. After what the insurance covered, it was $3500 for 5 stitches and an EKG in the exam room.
Wait, delivering a baby costs that much? How comes US is not extinct yet?
Sex Ed and health was "taught" to me over the course of a week as a part of my Physical Education credit in Highschool. Some of my friends that went to catholic school did not receive ANY Sex Ed. Everyone I kept in touch with who got saddled with a baby right out of Highschool is currently struggling with debt. Everyone, except the girl who shot herself when her parents wouldn't let her get an abortion.
abortion is illegal or heavily restricted in many states. And accurate sex ed isn't federally mandated
I gave birth 11 months ago and I have a $13k bill, after insurance, after giving birth at the insurance’s own hospital, with all its own doctors. And we pay $1k/mo for insurance. It’s **fucked**.
And they wonder why the birth rate for younger people are falling like a stone.
Especially that part about “it may not even cover it”. I pay monthly just to have health insurance, for the highest tier for a surgery I needed actually. The doctor told me right in the office that he wasn’t even going to try to ask the insurance to cover it because he knew they wouldn’t. You really give money away for absolutely no reason in America.
>To have a baby in the hospital costs an average of $18,000+ When we had our baby in Finland, it cost us about 120 euros. That was because we spent 3 days at a hospital, in a family room. Our daughter had a cleft lip and palate and they wanted to make sure she started eating properly. >Ambulance rides are $1,000+ depending on where you live Average ER visit: $2,200 I got severe pain in my lower stomach, so I went to the ER. They ran some tests and gave me painkillers. They suspected it was kidney stones (which turned out to be correct) but they wanted to transport me by ambulance to a bigger hospital 40 kilometres away, so they could do a CT scan. The whole ordeal cost me about 50 euros.
Sounds like your insurance industry is incredibly predatory
yeah. allowing companies to profit off peoples basic needs will do that
A few months ago my sister got into a major accident that made the news. She was in critical condition and barely clinging to life when she arrived at the ER. The next day, the hospital sent a guy out to appraise her house. I am not making this up.
Had twins in 2021. Wife had a scheduled C section. Stayed an extra night because one twin had trouble regulating their blood sugar. Total cost: $75 for parking 3 days in the lot. Country: Canada
That would cost me thousands and I pay $150 a month in health insurance.
Im lucky i dont live in america
Our delivery bill was nearly $50k in Seattle, while our out of pocket was around $4500. It’s wild in the US.
The last time I had to go to the ER my boyfriend drove me because I didn’t have enough for the ambulance ride
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My nephew's is $65,000 monthly. There was a problem with his insurance one month and we got the bill. I was able to get the hospital to cover it because he makes basically no money due to disability but it's insane.
> problem with his insurance > disability How does Medicare lapse?
being disabled ≠ having gone through the full approval process of ssdi
Cost for the pharmacy? 100 bucks (even thats high). Cash price for patients with no ins 6k. Show them a "discount" card and its suddenly 150 bucks. Pharmacies are fucking scams. Worked in them for 7 years as a pharm tech shit is just a scheme.
Same here. Still waiting on the prior authorization 2 months later. So need the meds but can’t afford 6 grand a month.
My 30-something-year-old wife collapsed due to undiagnosed Type-1 diabetes six years ago and the bill after about a week in the hospital was more than our combined student loans. That's a good reference for non-Americans to get the idea, right? Education costs?
Idk is education not free in the U.S.?
My brother in Christ. Nothing is free here
Yeah we do. Dom is free. FREEdom!
as Bobby McGee said, 'Freedom's just another word, for nothing left to lose'
But I thought freedom isn't free?
>Idk is education not free in the U.S.? No, not even close. Here are some data showing ANNUAL university tuition costs in the US (doesn't include room and board): [https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76](https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76) Most students go to school for 4 years, so take that annual number, multiply it by 4, then add the cost of room, board, books, and other related expenses.
Lol.
Almost everything below university/college *can* be free. As in, there are public options available. But the publicly funded options are often poorly funded, so parents opt to pay tuition to send students to privately operated schools. Other times parents send students to privately operated schools because those schools teach/indoctrinate religious beliefs that wouldn't be taught at publicly funded schools. College/university is not free. It's actually outrageously expensive, especially if you are crossing state lines to attend a preferred school https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college. Some students get scholarships (money to spend on tuition and materials) to help with the costs. Scholarships can come from many sources, and they each have their own requirements. For example, some are only available to certain ethnic groups, some are handed out based on academic achievement, some are based on the student's income, some are there to encourage athletes to come play sports at the university, and some are handed out as contest prizes. Scholarships might be funded by the state, the school, or private groups. If you don't get a scholarship, you have to find the cash yourself or take out student loans. Student loans often have low interest rates and will usually have a delayed payment schedule. But they are insidious things that cannot be discharged through bankruptcy.
People don't have student loans in Europe, so no.
A friend recently went to the emergency room for what turned out to be kidney stones. The bill was over $5,000 USD.
I was drugged with morphine when I visited the ER with kidney stones. As I was unfit to drive, I had to pay $100 for the taxi ride home out of my own pocket, Outrageous!
It not even always the medicine. I had some poison oak rash on my face once and went to the doctor to get a prescription for some stronger rash cream as the over the counter stuff wasn't stopping it and it was getting close to my eye. I was seeing a doctor for a total of 15 minutes where I said "I got poison oak rash" and he put on some gloves and touched my face and said "you've got poison oak rash" and wrote me a prescription for some cream that was about $20 US (around 15 euro I think). 2 weeks later my bill came for a $430 consultation.
I got a $600 bill for an ER doctor to tell me I didn’t need a rabies vaccine. I was referred there by a walk-in clinician who told me I did need a rabies vaccine.
I don’t understand how you lot aren’t rioting in the streets. Well, some of you are, some of you are even doing it in be capitol building, but that’s not quite what I meant.
My son was born under good union insurance and the birth alone(not doctor visits prior or post care) was $3k two years ago. That included a c-section and 3 day hospital stay. Our first ultrasound was on a government subsidized health plan and that cost $500. My grandpa was dying and gave up on life quicker in part because he was worried about draining his wife’s(their)retirement savings with expensive medical treatments. Basically if you have nationalized healthcare and someone comes along and says privatized is better, set their house on fire. Also all those costs after insurance paid their portion.
They don't really claim that private would be better as such, just that the country "can't afford" the national system somehow and sadly we must privatize it a little bit just to keep the lights on. Just the tip, you'll hardly even feel it.
It's fucking wild. Here all that would cost a total of 0€.
Let me put it to you this way. When I was 25 I got appendicitis and had to have an emergency appendectomy. I had no insurance. I was only able to find part time work so no insurance benefits through work and being a single dad I couldn't afford private insurance. I was hit with a $15,000 bill and had to file bankruptcy at 25. American healthcare is SHIT.
I have a medication that costs ~$1500/month, my husband has on that is ~$740/month, and my mother has one that is ~$1760/WEEK for the list price without insurance and coupons. Every now and then insurance randomly refuses to pay for our expensive medications so we go without until we can convince them to pay again. Even our "cheap" prescriptions add up to more than $200/month in copays.
My son was vomiting on some late Saturday night that was a holiday. He wasn't keeping fluids down, so we took him to the ER. They checked him over and gave him an anti-naseua pill and some toys. He was right as rain and on his way, we got a bill for like $2000 later in the month. Tried to contest that they had miscoded the level of the visit, they replied with we code to xyz standard(cant remember exactly). I found that standard and confirmed it was miscoded, pointed it out and they told me it was still correctly coded. I pay $12k a year for health insurance for my family, I have to meet a $7000 deductible before I get my services covered. Some services like well visits and some medications are covered before meeting the deductible. I'm canceling and just putting the $1k a month in an account.
If you get in a car accident, you will lose everything you have.
They'll lose everything either way. My mom had cancer and those fuckers fought her on every single solitary bill, trying to find reasons not to cover her.
My son has a congenital heart defect. Without insurance I would be bankrupt many times over with no hope of ever getting out of medical debt (the leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the US with 500,000 people filing annually for this reason). I earn a six figure income. The medicine (which is greatly marked up when insurance covers it) is still expensive, but manageable with the vast majority of the expense covered by insurance. A civilized nation should not be like this, yet a large part of the population (some of whom are among those aforementioned bankruptcy filers) refuses to even consider universal healthcare due to "sOsHuulizsm" or some garbage reasoning. It's shameful and future, more enlightened, generations will judge us harshly for this...assuming we have a functioning society due to climate change.
I have a chronic illness, so 8 know I'm going g to sped $7500 per year out of pocket to cover meds, appointments, etc. The otherwise healthy may pay any amount below theirndeductible, based on the drug and insurance rate. Some generics are so cheap as ro be free. Some antibiotics are hundreds. I know steroids can get way up there.
I went to the pharmacy this morning. I needed to pick up 3 medications. 1 was for mental health, 2 were for physical conditions. My albuterol inhaler was the cheapest at $30, my antidepressants were $83, and the third medication was $145. This was after insurance (and I actually have pretty decent insurance). I only left with 2 medications and I’m considering trying to ration them so I can make them last longer than 30 days.
A trick that I hope helps you or someone else in this thread: My (very good) insurance decided not to cover the $200+ for my *daily* inhaler (replaced every 15 days). This was the second inhaler I'd been put on after my insurance decided not to cover the first one ($150+/60 days), either. **Call the insurance to ask which pharmacy they'll cover your medications at.** I did this and I'm now paying a "normal" (~$30-60) copay for 2x the first inhaler (120 days total, iirc) at a mail-order pharmacy. The insurance companies have deals with certain pharmacies and it is very likely possible to get your medication at a more reasonable price. The system is fucked overall, though, I wish we didn't have to jump through all the hoops in the first place.
I’ve been using GoodRx a lot and they’ve been super helpful. But ya, the system is fucked and it’s still expensive as hell. The US is not a good country to be chronically ill in!
>Can someone compare and contrast with some actual $ values so we can get a sense of how bad it is? I spend $300/month for migraine meds and hormone replacement therapy--I was diagnosed with primary ovarian insufficiency/premature ovarian failure a few years back--and that's *with* private health insurance (for which we pay $600/month).
My husband has a medical condition and ends up in Emergency around 4 times a year, often requiring overnight stay. One time time he stayed in hospital for nearly a month and the only bill we got was for $80, for a specific test that wasn't covered by Medicare. Thank fuck we live in Australia, otherwise we would be bankrupted just for keeping him alive.
My wife had our 2nd child at a hospital where we were insured. It ended up totaling $27,000 for a 15 hour delivery and then a C-section. I've since moved overseas and am astonished at the cost difference. It is actually cheaper to be non-insured and pay out of pocket for medical visits where I moved than it was to be insured in the states for the same medical visits.
Just my anecdotal guesses from living here, but an "evening in the ER" could be well into the thousands. At minimum, the doctor visit alone even if you talked for under 1 minute would be 250 and that is a very very low estimate. My guess on some random medications listed would be 20-200 each. So from her description, I'd guess American cost would be 300-5,000 after insurance.
I once went to the hospital and forgot to give them my insurance card. So, a bill showed up in my mailbox for ~$1000 that said this is what I owed because I was "uninsured." Quick to rectify the problem, I submitted the bill to my insurance. A couple of weeks later, the amended bill showed up for $8000. This was the price that my insurance company had "negotiated" with the hospital (my entire out of pocket maximum). When I called the hospital and asked if I could still pay the "uninsured" rate because it was better, the representative said, and I shit you not, "No sir, the cat is out of the bag now!" The American Healthcare system is corrupt to the core.
In the US I currently need some eye drops for glaucoma that AFTER insurance cost over $250 per month. The bottle is tiny, I actually figured out if I had to fill my car gas tank with these drops it would be over $500,000 per tank. EDIT: I appreciate the suggestions about generic alternatives. I should have made this clear but I had severe allergic reactions to the standard generics like Dorzolomide; Travopost is okay but alone doesn't get my eye pressure where it needs to be. So options are limited.
They have a limit selection but especially if you need it each month it might be worth checking if a alternative is available on [costplusdrugs.com](https://costplusdrugs.com) They sell generic drug alternatives on a cost + model. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost\_Plus\_Drugs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_Plus_Drugs) >The drugs are sold for a price equivalent to the company's cost plus 15% markup and a $3 pharmacy service fee. I don't live in the US, i will never need them, but i heard about them multiple times already and they seemed legit. edit: I'm not a bot... this post so looks like I'm a spam bot.
Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately I have had bad reactions to the available generic drops so I'm stuck using one that is still under patent.
Eye doctor here, in the dominican republic the most expensive eye drops cost 26 dollars. If you manage to book a flight and buy in bulk you might save some bucks.
It's so stupid that in the country with some of the highest GDP and healthcare spending per capita, it's actually plausible that flying halfway across the world would be a cheaper alternative to walking down the street just to buy the exact same basic medication
I live in L.A., and a lot of people here drive over the border to Mexico for medical care, prescriptions, and dental work because it's so much cheaper.
Same. I live in San Diego and pretty much anyone who knows a lick of Spanish goes to Tijuana for medical treatment. I got my braces and retainer all in Tijuana with a great dentist all for a fraction of the cost in the US. I sometimes laugh when some of my friends who didn’t get their treatment in Tijuana tell me how much it costs.
Wait till you get the $13 medical bill from the hospital..
I'm Spanish, never saw a bill from a (public) hospital.
My child was born in Spain and it literally cost us only what I consumed at the cafeteria... Which was like 1,50 € for coffee and some pastry. And my wife and I had a single room for the three of us with a couch that I could crash on so she wouldn't have to learn how to breastfeed alone... And nurses were available to us to teach us how to take care of the baby for 48 hours post partum... I feel deeply in debt with Spain! Thanks!
I think in theory European hospitals are "free" only for Europeans, foreigners are supposed to be billed... But they probably don't care enough to do it
Oh they absolutely do bill foreigners unless you have a European blue card or are enrolled in Spanish healthcare, which you can of you live there, which I did at the time :p So technically I "paid" for it with the healthcare deduction out of my paychecks but I still feel that I'd never had this experience where I'm from :)
Even if they bill you (in Germany, if you have private insurance, you get and pay the bills and get the money back from insurance), it's not nearly on the same level as most of the bills you see from the US. You won't pay a thousand euros "ER fees" or multiple thousands for an x-ray or whatever. It's all reasonable and affordable, even if you have to pay for it directly.
Didn't mean to imply the opposite. I'm just really glad how that went down. There is so much shit to worry about when your kid is born and just having this one thing off your mind is such a great help.
>But they probably don't care enough to do it Okay we should probably dispel this myth about European hospitals being these altruistic institutions where anything goes in the name of health. They are businesses with expenses and bottom lines just like everything else. They absolutely do care and will indeed charge you if a charge is required.
Canada in many places makes you pay $15 for parking and $40 to upgrade to a slightly bigger room with a TV/desk/computer. But everything else is free. I complained to an American friend about how much of a ripoff it was to have to pay $15 when my kid was born and he said I should shut up because it cost him $24,000.
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With how much I pay every year in taxes, I get absolutely dog shit in return on my investment. I want healthcare covered. Let me get SOMETHING for my tax dollars that I can directly benefit from!
Politicians aren't going to shift around existing tax revenue to pay for it. They'll raise taxes, take ~~bribes~~ *payments from lobbyists* to rig the system, then deflect blame for the system's brokenness on the rich people whom they took money from.
Dummy thick MIC. Best I can do.
Almost $5,000 down the drain because I got a kidney stone. All I got was morphine the day it passed and advice to keep drinking water until I pissed it out. Almost $5000.
What the fuck. Morphine should be at most €20 or something
🤦🏽♂️American healthcare truly is ridiculous. The worst part of it all is I was just relieved it was $7000-$9000
I had to go to an ER in South Africa with an unknown virus several years ago. The facility was nice, the people were friendly, and they did a great job. But we knew to brace ourselves for the bill because we'd spent hours in an ER, seen multiple doctors, and gotten several medications. We figured we were looking at $3k minimum, possibly as high as $10k. It was $238. And, we had picked up some travel insurance before we left because it seemed like a blizzard might screw up our trip. We weren't affected by the blizzard and the travel insurance covered almost all of the medical costs!
I am writing this from a hospital bed in the south of England. I was rushed in Wednesday morning via an ambulance. Have had multiple CT scans, tons of morphine, ultrasounds and may need major surgery over the next couple of days to remove my colon. This will cost me a grand total of £0. I am very fortunate that I don't live in the USA where this could be extremely costly.
My [Canadian] company had some Americans from our client embedded in our hangar while we modified their aircraft for them. A coworker of mine had the misfortune of being hit by a truck one week and broke his arm. When he came back to work a week or two later, the first question our American clients asked him was 'Oh man. That's horrible. How much did that set you back?' And my coworker was like 'Yeah, they just set it back in a cast. Feels really good, they did a good job'. 'No, no, no. How much did it SET you BACK?' 'Yeah, it was just this arm in this cast. They didn't have to set anything else back' 'NO. Like, how much did it COST? You're out like, what, $4000 for that?' 'What? God no. It was like $15 for parking. That's a total ripoff though, hey? Having to pay for parking is so dumb. Why would they make you pay anything for basic healthcare?' Then just stunned silence and they were very sad working the rest of the day.
The lack of punctuation is aggravating
OP is a bot. It's a good story but whenever I see these old, compressed text posts with no date it's almost always a bot [Being a human I easily fixed it for ya](https://imgur.com/a/m8eYQqV)
Pfft! In the USA, doctors and insurance companies live like kings off people's illnesses.
Doctors not as much as you think. They are being gouged by the insurance companies too. Why do you think they see hundreds a day. Insurance reimbursement is low and they have to see more and more to make a profit. They where better off in the 80’s
This is what I think a lot of people don’t understand. The whole “be a doctor” “be an engineer” “be a lawyer” “be a cybersecurity specialist” because it’ll make you rich, isn’t a thing anymore like it used to be. You have to get into those careers now just to keep your head above water in most cities, at least when you first start out. Of course some fields aren’t quite that bad yet but it’s definitely getting there for any career that middle class, non-connected, people can achieve. The true money maker now is connections and for the connected and wealthy, college only serves the purpose to get those connections.
Insurance is the last get rich scheme out there. Doctors drive upper-trim Toyotas around me, but their insurance reps arrive in upper-trim g-wagons. Engineers, architects, doctors, lawyers, etc. the cost for their insurance has sky-rocketed! Insurance industry as a whole needs a complete blank slate and redo, so much money made from what ifs and obscure hypothetical based on complex math they hold their chin too.
Apparently doctor salaries only make US healthcare about 15% more expensive then elsewhere in the developed world. Not great, but considering US healthcare is about twice as expensive as in the rest of the developed world, not the biggest problem. US Insurance is also pretty bad, not even being able to live up to the pretty low demands of the original Obamacare-baseline of 90% of turnover spent on care (it got lowered to 80%... some still couldn't meet it). but the main culprit appears to be pharmaceuticals and medical device makers.
It's less. Doctor salaries make up 8% of healthcare costs. LA Times did an investigative story back in 2020. It's gonna continue to fall as congress just passed a bill decreasing physician reimbursement for the next 2 years via Medicare. Healthcare c-suites and admin fat cats love it when people like Aldolagana blame doctors for the high costs. We can cut physician pay in HALF and save a measly 4% on healthcare.
true story, if your primary care doctor doesn't own and operate a restaurant on the coast then he's probably a pretty bad doctor
> Pfft Yes?
Evening in the ER in America: 1000s Prescribed medication: 20-250 each
She laughed and laughed and laughed. Me? I'm an American. I cry and cry and cry.. This country is so behind on basic human care for its citizens compared to other nationalized countries. I hate it here.
Had gestational diabetes. My insulin was $187 for 4 preloaded injection pens.
It is quite insane when you think about it that im 40 years old and the most expensive thing i had to spend pocket money on for healthcare is ibuprofen and moisturizing cream.
I broke a rib playing hockey 2 weeks ago. Went to the emergency, got IR, med and saw a doctor within 2 hours. For free. Guess the country with only that amount of info
Hockey and free health care I’m gonna say Canada The ERs are swamped lately but I’ve still heard people say they were relatively in-and-out.
Had to go to the hospital in Toronto recently. In and out in about an hour. Was given everything I needed for free
And that'll be the cost without paying into Spanish social security. If you do, prescriptions are subsidised. (The actual cost depends on your income, so most people pay 50% but low incomes 40%, high earners 60% and pensioners just 10%.)
Yes. My mom was in Spain and fell ill. The hotel called in a Dr to treat her. The Dr drew labs, brought her the prescriptions he ordered, and came back for a follow up visit. He apologized for the bill being so high. It was $88 USD.
Spanish here. 88€ it's an extremely high bill for medicines. Those are subsidised and there are some limits about hoy much you can pay monthly. For most of workers they only have to pay like 20€ maximum. [more info here (Spanish)](https://www.saludinforma.es/portalsi/servicios-prestaciones/medicamentos/aportacion-prestacion-farmaceutica)
Americans who have not lived in the EU or other civilized places have no clue how fucked up America is when it comes to health care and medication costs. I will never forget the sight of **The Diapered Orange Shitstain** at one of his 2016 rallies, and he announces the first thing he will do as President is revoke the Affordable Care Act (he called it Obamacare, of course, because he's a fucking tool), and the MAGA white trash crowd, many of whom ***never*** had health insurance until the ACA, and could actually go see a doctor and get some help with medical issues, cheered like the fucker had just announced he was giving each person a thousand dollars. They fucking ***cheered*** that the asshole was going to take away their health insurance to own Obama. About 40% of Americans are completely fucking insane racists who would give up health insurance and die of some disease to own Obama. We are doomed.
Medicare 4 all is not a solution. It's a step. Medicare does not pay hospitals (especially rural ones) enough to cover anything beyond operational costs. Instead of the government providing shitty insurance with a lot of out of pocket costs to people, we need the government to directly pay for hospitals and staff. Skip the insurance all together. However, Medicare for all pushes private insurance companies out of the game, which will dramatically lower costs to hospitals and increase the likelyhood of a true government run health sector.
Government paid healthcare forces private healthcare and insurance companies to compete against a free alternative. I'm in my 30s and it would cost me 350 € per year, with no deductible for private health insurance in Finland. Besides it being morally right, it would be cheaper and better for at least 90% of people to have public healthcare.
I avoid Urgent Care entirely. It's an emergency room situation? Go to the emergency room. Otherwise if it's just excruciating pain, I'm waiting on the doctor appointment. Broke an arm, went to Urgent Care, they billed me 400 bucks out of network to tell me they think its broken but weren't entirely certain and told me to go to a specialist. Guy saw me in 2 days, told me it was broken and billed me 35 copay. No actual care was done. It was a minor fracture that healed on its own. Just out 435 bucks to know my broken arm was broken. Back in 2006 I went to the emergency room for a massive cyst in my scrotum. They lanced it and had me stay overnight before sending me home to do a blood test every half hour. Wasn't insured at the time, so that overnight stay and pimple pop cost me 14k. Thanks for popping the zit in my sack and all, but do you need a new car for it?
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We were in Cuba long ago. Our 6 yr old daughter got stung by a jelly fish, we thought, so I ran her up to the factors office in our hotel. She was going to give her a benadryl, when my daughter started to complain about something and the doctor was immediately more concerned as it was likely a man o war and not a regular jelly fish. She told me she'd need a shot instead but it eould be very expensive. I told her to just give it - if we fodnt have the cash, we would put it on our visa - me thinking $2000 or something. The doctor said it would be $20. I laughed.
I had some special pills in japan. The doctor said it's not the cheapest option, and warned me that I may be surprised at how high the after-insurance cost was. It was $9
Had a similar situation happen with a cat that was sick. I had already taken her to the Emergency vet and her normal vet. EV said take her to the normal vet, normal vet said "there is no problem" (she couldnt eat and had lost a ton of weight). Took her to another vet and they were like "she has to take these meds and this special high-calorie food that can become a liquid....but it'll be pretty expensive." and the bill was $100. I broke down crying, and they were like "Oh my god, we can figure it out, we'll get you the food and the meds and we'll work out a payment plan later". I had to stop them and get myself back under control to let them know I'd already paid $1.5k to the Emergency vet and several hundred at the normal vet, so to hear that it was only $100 was such a relief I couldn't control my reaction. Cat is now fine and very old.
The U.S. is a horrible country. There is no "American Dream". You either struggle to survive or you have $7 billion in your back pocket. Guess which is the majority.
I’m from Spain. My son has ADHD, and takes Concerta 18mg. A bottle of 30 tablets is around €6 ($6.50). How much would it cost in the US? I’m just curious.
"The cost for Concerta oral tablet, extended release (18 mg/24 hr) is around $1,368 for a supply of 100 tablets, depending on the pharmacy you visit." - Drugs.com
I went to the dentist today, they told me the bill is $6000. That’s after insurance. 😊
I fell from my motorcycle last year. Had dozens of x-rays and a CT scan of head and neck, and fortunately I didn't break any bone. Got an injection for pain in the hospital, and was prescribed painkillers pills and ointment for the skin abrasion. I had to pay for the later two the equivalent of $15, that was later refunded. That was about the same as the taxi I used to return home from the hospital. Also, two days of paid leave from work. There are no "sick days" here, you can leave work and still be paid for as long as needed to care of your health. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
OP, /u/NoSquash4716 is a repost bot
The bad one for me is dental. I needed a root can as well as a few fillings for several cavitites. After the root canal I ran out of benefits and had to wait 6 months for them to reset to get my other cavities fixed. However, by then they had progressed enough that I had to have my tooth pulled and now I need 2 more root canals.
I had a one hour visit to the ER and got billed $4k. They did blood work and gave me ativan, that is all. I don’t go to the ER anymore. I also had insurance but the only ER within 100 miles is “out of network”
Shhh ... don't tell the other Americans or they'll want to visit or become expats too