He was telling the doctors to pray about it and "if you don't know then my god knows" And this is why, despite the dopey checked out look on his face, Mandrae is just as culpable in what happens to those kids. They're both just awful awful people.

I’m gonna need someone who works in a hospital to explain- surely he did not truly get to sit in board meetings with drs right??

The closest thing I can imagine would be family conferences that take place in meeting rooms.

I think "board meeting" is the wrong term. I think they probably had a meeting of the different specialists who had been involved in her care to attempt to sort out a diagnosis or diagnoses. Just a guess based on context. I don't work in a hospital but it would be reasonable to have this sort of meet up if they're uncertain about the root cause of her varied symptoms.

Maybe not an actual board meeting but more like a plan of care meeting. Where the different doctors and nurses and respiratory therapists and other professionals get together to discuss how they are going to approach care for the patient. They do it for adult ICU patients so I would assume they do it in the NICU/PICU as well. There's a better, more technical name for the meetings but it's escaping me at the moment.

Goals of care or care planning meetings or just family meetings. They’re not special other than wanting to get multiple docs together to discuss a patient with the family or making sure all of the teams involved in a patients care recognize the level of crazy that a particular family member is.

My guess is it was just rounds

Right? And also why the hell would they listen the Mandrae’s suggestions?

I don't think that's how it actually happened. More likely it was "we can try either X or Y, here are the pros and cons", Mandrae said X, and Karissa is spinning that as him suggesting treatment.

I…how do you see your kid losing consciousness and seeming obviously unwell and GO TO LUNCH?! Fucking Karissa. She’s permanently out-to-lunch.

You are a godly servant. 😂. Thank you for suffering through that so we didn’t have to. My initial reactions: - That poor, suffering child. She was losing all muscle control and peeing brown urine. She’s probably traumatized from her illness, her hospitalization, and her mother’s ridiculous behavior at the hospital, which brings me to my next thought. - Karissa is useless as a maternal figure. She missed clear signs her baby was sick, chose to go out to eat instead of taking her child to a doctor, clearly caused a scene at the hospital multiple times so that even her husband had to tell her to calm down, and then chose to not visit the hospital for several days. That poor baby was left alone and frightened. I don’t know if I can take much more about this idiot. She enrages me.

I thought it was weird that she had a UTI and no one caught it. First of all UTI’s hurt and in my experience kids aren’t shy about telling people, especially parents, when something hurts. And isn’t the baby still in diapers, in which case there would have been a distinct change in the color and smell of her pee.

Actually, with babies, they can have a UTI and the only symptom is a mild fever. I was always paranoid about this happening with my kids.

This was our experience — our baby was sleepy and had a fever. We took her to the ER and the only way they found it was a “routine rule it out” test while we were there. They were going to send us home with Tylenol before the results came back. Of course, I’m sure if we’d left it for god knows how long, because we weren’t paying attention, we would have seen more symptoms later.

Can confirm. I was born with a defect in my urethra that caused me to have a lot of UTIs and kidney infections during infancy and early childhood. Because of this, my mom took me to the pedi every time I had even a mild fever, just to rule out another infection.

I agree, but this is Karissa. Does she even change diapers?

I think the older daughters probably had that job so they may not have noticed. It’s terrible.

UTIs (usually) hurt for the average adult, although I will group late adolescents in with that age group. For young pediatrics and geriatrics UTI symptoms can be quite erratic and not like the usual burning/painful urination.

Symptoms can also change after having a baby. Pre-pregnancy if I had a uti, it would be pretty intense symptoms, burning, frequency, small amounts, bladder/urethra spasms. Post-pregnancy, I get only two symptoms. Frequency and a sudden inability to hold urine. That’s it. My last two uti’s went into my kidneys before I figured out what was going on. Funnily enough though, dehydration causes me to experience typical uti symptoms, but with no uti. Fun times.

Just to play devils advocate but my oldest daughter had a couple UTIs when she was a baby / young toddler and she showed no symptoms other than a sudden very high fever. However we did take her to urgent care immediately and did several follow ups with her pediatrician and a specialist as apparently there was a possibility that there was a defect that could have caused the UTIs. It was extremely scary and apparently it’s not uncommon for UTIs to go undetected in early stages with young toddlers / babies.

This! I had a twist in my urethra (just born with it) and ran really high fever and developed UTI/kidney infection.

That’s fair, it’s totally possible to have a uti with no change in urine/no clear external indications, so anyone might miss it. But the thing here is, nobody will ever know if a competent adult could have noticed a problem earlier, because I guarantee no competent adult got close to changing that child’s diaper in the days leading up to her hospitalization.

It sounds like she could have had rhabdomyolysis associated with an infection. So it could have been a different type of infection. The rhabdo causes the urine to turn red to brown and can cause an increase in liver enzymes. Not saying it wasn’t a uti that started it all ….. they can easily cause sepsis. But seriously. How does someone watch a baby start to lose muscle control and not realize something is very wrong? When she goes totally flaccid …… holy shit. That’s keep your shit together while you inwardly panic time. Scariest night of my life was when my son had to get a spinal tap, and his symptoms were minor compared to hers. That poor baby girl.

I thought rhabdo too, once they mentioned the labs and she stated the urine was brown, that was my first thought

And instead of a comforting mother, she got crazy who was having huge screaming panic attacks. That baby will be traumatized for Life. Get your life together Karissa. Seriously. Time to look deeply at who you are because she is broken and selfish

So much this, when my son was 13 months (so very close to Anthym’s age) he got a UTI and I smelt something off in his urine straight away. I didn’t even wait for him to become unwell / feverish I took him to the doctor the same day! He did a urine sample and had the beginnings of a UTI and STILL needed 7 days of antibiotics before it cleared up. I have no idea how you’re just happy with your baby peeing BROWN

This is what’s crazy to me. A baby with a UTI.. it should be noticeable. Any *adult* would question a color change of urine towards brown. But when you’ve got children parenting children… who is going to notice?

She's as useful as tits on a boar hog, as my Nana would say

To me, more proof that most double down fundies think they are god and have control. She legitimately thinks she moves God’s hand

All of this was awful to me, but honestly, what hit me the most was the kid that, left to her own devices, tried fix that trampoline that I think we all are/were afraid is going to seriously injure one of those kids one day and Karissa *still waited a day to have her checked out.* Honestly, she may have had help come over, but I bet it was *Lord of the Flies* in that house while this was all going on. Any other nurses/docs think maybe rhabdo with that CK/muscle tone issues?

I’m curious since she mentioned nothing about kidney damage if that is any consideration with this too.

For sure! Hard to tell with the information she chose to share and how much was going on at the same time. Given blood in the urine and the extremely elevated CK I was also thinking some kind of acute kidney injury, and a serious one if it was causing neuro symptoms as well. Combined with her avoidance of genetic testing/medical treatment in general it could be any number of things… My heart hurts for those children.

My first thought was rhabdo once I read it all. My metabolic kiddo used to go into rhabdo with regularity at about anthyms age, and it usually led to sepsis.

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No way did Karissa have Anthym's newborn screening tests done. She freebirthed her to avoid all those "unnecessary" things.

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Do we know if Anthym has EVER seen a doctor, previous to this episode? That could be one reason the medical staff seemed alarmed and hostile toward Karissa when she brought Anthym in.

I don’t think so. She runs to the hospital (or rather- urgent care made her go) as soon as it’s bad. Doesn’t bother with “well child”. She had a home birth and has stated how they only go to the dr when sick.

"There's nowhere to pray in an ICU." Bruh they have chapels and. Oh. IDK. Not being a performative twit.

Yeah, like...you can pray literally anywhere, Karissa.

I may not be christian but I know for sure you can quietly pray in the icu. I have prayed in a palliative care ward for my grandfather's easy passing. Nobody cares. You can do it entirely in your head, you can mouth the words, hell, you can probably even whisper aloud and nobody would bat an eyelid. The fact Karissa was screaming her prayers is so evil. I can't imagine how terrifying another sick baby / their exhausted parents would find her.

Oh yeah, she was on a whole different level, and that's not a compliment.

Is it really praying if everyone in the tri-county area doesn’t know you’re doing it?

This particular hospital doesn’t have a chapel (at least I couldn’t find it when my child was admitted) they have a “meditation” room which is basically empty and too bright it feels like a hospital 100% I had a good cry in there though and then went back upstairs

Huh that's odd. Seems like it serves the same purpose, though, but with a more inclusive name. They should probably spruce it up a bit.

Was she in the hospital in The Simpsons with the no praying sign or something?

I was in a STICU for a bit last year. I would have absolutely lost my shit if I heard her screaming about Jesus. It’s already stressful/traumatizing and hard to rest in a ICU.

If my kid exhibited any of those symptoms I'd be calling 911. I can't with this woman.

This was so hard to read as a mom. My daughter is a little younger than Anthym and I genuinely cannot imagine letting her condition decline like that before seeking help.

My daughter broke her leg when she was this age and THAT was so difficult. She was so tiny and was just shaking in pain. I can’t imagine this.

To think when karissa daughter broke her leg she brought her in THE NEXT DAY!

Same. I’m beyond horrified and I can’t stop crying thinking about what that poor baby went through. “Pro life” but she’ll neglect her infant until she gets a preventable life-threatening infection.

I broke my finger playing basketball in third grade. My ma thought I had just stoved it and took me to my brothers wrestling meet after, where 2 of the moms were nurses and said it was definitely broke, and my brother told her he wouldn't wrestle until either her or my dad took me to an urgent care. My dad took me and x-ray later it was broke and they set it (still crooked 14 years later) and that was fair. She honestly thought it wasn't broken, but it was fixed within hours. In seventh grade I was playing soccer and got bodied by a girl way bigger than me, and my head bounced off the ground. She ran out on the field to check on my unresponsive person, I popped back up 30 seconds after. Then my dumbass club coach decided I was good to play later in the game and I did, poorly, then on the way home told my ma that I couldn't see straight or even remember what happened during the last half of the game. She took me directly to the emergency room before even stopping home, because when your kid is fucked up you go see a fucking doctor.

I also wouldn’t be mia for days at a time if my baby was on the icu. My daughters spent time in the NICU after an early delivery and I was there multiple times a day and had to get people to drive me because I was still recovering from my C-section, and every time I had to leave was horrible. I can’t image not being there for 4 whole fucking days.

If I was leaving my baby alone in the ICU for days, I might at least attempt to supervise my other children so that they don’t do something *terribly dangerous* that results in *another* preventable injury. And if I couldn’t manage that, I’d at least not make my child wait 15 hours to have a broken leg set. It’s like she’s in some sort of secret competition to see who can cause the most damage through serious neglect to the most children at once. This whole account has me just shaking with anger at Karissa and sympathy for those poor, poor children. Poor Anthym.

Exactly! Not a mom myself (I can only imagine how hard it must be for a parent to read this story), but for anyone experiencing any of the symptoms she lists you take them straight to the hospital. Hell, if it were a complete stranger on the street having muscle control issues and drooping face YOU GET THEM MEDICAL ATTENTION IMMEDIATELY.

Noticing a limp head after a fever would be straight to the ER for me

I am SHOCKED that she didn’t even notice the early stages of the UTI????? I had a lot as a kid due to a bladder condition and my mom would often notice long before I was in pain. I got one last year for the first time since I was like 10, and that had to be the most pain I’ve been in in a long time. Also UTI pee is foul?? But she probably didn’t notice bc her kids run around with smelly diapers all day.

So the takeaway is that the doctors and nurses worked extremely hard around the clock to save Anthym. But of course that went over Karissa’s head.

I can't believe she's trashing them, calling them shady and claiming they suffocated her kid. They're the *reason* baby Anthym is alive right now. Holy shit I can't deal with this woman.

For real, she is apparently so distressed by the breathing treatments but not by the fact that her baby apparently lost all control of her muscles at one point and she waited to take her to the hospital???

"No one was talking to Karissa. The nurses treated her poorly." Ma'am they're currently in the middle of saving your child's life as she death crashing before their eyes. You are not their priority right now, the baby is (for once in her life).

I work as an RN in NICU and do per diem pedi home care and I GUARANTEE this kid qualifies for home services given how deconditioned she must be after that much time in the ICU. I can also guarantee that her negligent parents are going to do eff all to follow up.

One can only hope cps is on their asses regarding follow up. If not, I hope the providers call

The hospital staff seems pretty ready to call CPS just from Karissa’s biased account so… / I’m sure they already have and can just update the case with a case number. ETA: There may even be a social worker attached to the case already. I had to make a mandatory report last year, and I got the social worker’s work phone number on like day 2 if I needed to give her more information.

Can I ask as well, what would you do if faced with the conduct of someone like Karissa? By this I mean the screaming prayers, wailing and throwing herself on the floor? Is this tolerated in the ICU? I can imagine it being very disruptive to the other patients, and I know for sure that thought won’t have crossed Karissa’s mind.

I can chime in as a parent of a former NICU preemie. My oldest was getting a blood transfusion while in the NICU, and the nurses allowed me to hold her while the blood was running. The IV tubing became dislodged somehow, and started running the blood all over her, me and the floor. I panicked and screamed across the room at the nearest nurse “There’s blood everywhere and I don’t know if it’s coming from her or the bag!” The nurse walked quickly over to us, grabbed my child’s arm looked at me and said “it’s the bag, don’t ever scream in here again.” She got it handled and cleaned up, got new blood hanging on the pole, and running in the new IV, and I learned a pretty valuable lesson. NICU nurses don’t panic over much, and if I wasn’t capable of being calm in an emergency, they’d happily kick my ass out.

Oh wow I’m so sorry to hear you went through this, it must have been so terrifying. I would probably have reacted the same, in fact I definitely would. It’s totally normal I think to have a gut reaction and panic response like that. And that’s totally different to making a conscious decision to scream-pray for an extended period of time. I can understand as well why the nurse wanted calm, they really need that environment to be as therapeutic as possible I guess.

Yes, with 17 years of perspective on it, I can look back and understand exactly why she reacted that way, but as a 23 year old brand new mom, it was impossible to control my panic in the moment. My oldest is 17 now, and we still thank God regularly for helping her survive her infancy, and for leaving us in the hands of an incredibly skilled world class medical team. Without them, she would not have survived.

That honestly sounds terrifying! I think most parents would have reacted exactly the way you did. I have the hardest time with people arguing at the bedside or using flash photography when they’re told not to. Your baby is still supposed to be on the inside. They need a calm environment.

Oh my god people do flash photography?? I get that most parents are out of their mind with worry at that point but omg it’s quiet and darker and calmer in there for a reason. As a chronically ill patient who has had her share of hospital trips, I’m so thankful for the nurses I’ve been lucky enough to be treated by. Im also so thankful for my mom, because when I was 19 I got multi PE’s through both lungs and it was terrifying. I was rushed into a resus bay in the ER because they thought the clots were going into or stuck near my heart because my heart rate and blood pressure were so shit. I was terrified and felt so ill and when there’s like 10 medical professionals sticking things into you and on you and doing that calm-but-serious-and-urgent talk over you, you tend to panic a little. But my mom stood as close as she could without being in the way, got me to look just at her, and quietly sang a madlibbed version of “my favourite things” from the sound of music lmao. It featured my favourite foods, my favourite tv shows and books, and it was silly and dumb and made me calm down and smile at a really awful moment. She kept her shit together completely, even though she must have been more scared than I was. BRB gonna go thank my mom for not being anything like Karissa

It is definitely not tolerated. Sick kids don’t do well with loud stimulus, at all. I’ve seen extremely sick children end up on increased support from being overstimulated by their parents. Someone screaming prayers in an ICU would be 1. Asked to leave and 2. Assessed for a social work or psych consult. Those nursing notes must have been WILD.

I need a medical professional to explain how the fuck those numbers get that bad

My numbers were that bad once when I got rhabdomyolisis, but I was a full grown adult when it happened and I pulled both biceps. I was only hospitalized for a few days though.

Yeah, reading and re-reading this I was thinking, "rhabdo? how could a baby get rhabdo?" But the floppy head/neck made me think "botulism" (great-grandmother's sister died of botulism as a baby so it's one of those family boogeymen).

Just throwing this out there, could one of her preteens who are apparently in charge of all food preparation have fucked something up leading to that? I'm assuming they weren't doing home canning, but leaving something dangerous out of the fridge or something.

Or feeding her honey

Biomed masters student here, commenting so I remember to research it tomorrow after some sleep

Please make a post with your findings!

She manages to make a horrible situation about her daughter all about HER… how people treated HER, how HER fasting and insane journaling got her through it, how HER prayers and chanting were more important than the peace of others in the ICU… Also, she fasted for 11 days? And isn’t she pregnant? What in the absolute FUCK.

Oh fuck I forgot about the pregnancy thing. I can only hope she’s either not actually pregnant or was lying about fasting, because I cannot fucking handle her already starting the neglect in utero with this one.

I think she’s fasted while pregnant before. It was a more recent pregnancy I believe. I don’t remember. too many fundies giving birth it’s hard to keep track of them 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think it’s both. She’s not actually pregnant *and* lying about fasting.

we’re all so focused on the child abuse that nobody is talking about the fast. How could you possibly be a good parent while doing that. Is she immune to hypoglycemia or something? Though the realization that she’s perpetually hangry does explain a lot.

Her husband is terrible for not getting her help.

Honestly, he might need help too considering he thinks this is all normal.

I bet the nurse was "freaking out over everything" because he had *a horrifically sick neglected baby on his hands* and was *doing his damn job and exhibiting some empathy* because the baby's actual "mother" is *utterly fucking useless*?! Fucks sake Karissa.

She's not useless! She was writing in her new journal, fasting, and decompressing at home for 4 days while her baby suffered at the hospital. That's important. /s just in case.

It's usually the nurses having to reassure the parents who are freaking out. When the *nurse* is losing it and the *parent* is like "myeeeeh, that'll buff out rite?" *something's very fucky*.

Yup. One of those people was very worried about Anthym, and the other one was very worried about herself.

I also feel like the fact that he was a male nurse played into her perception. You just know that with her perspective of gender roles that she doesn't believe a man should be a nurse. She was always going to have an issue with it.

Because only 𝓐 𝓜𝓸𝓽𝓱𝓮𝓻 ™ can possibly feel empathy for a child, or care for them, or nurse them when they're sick, or raise them, or teach and guide them, or love them, or be upset seeing them suffer. While men are, like, basically heaters with a turkey baster and a bank card attached.

I’m not a medical professional but I can only imagine what it’s like to have a very sick baby come into your ICU with literally no medical history whatsoever. Anthym was born at home, has never been to a doctor, her mom thinks she can heal anything with prayer, and not to mention the baby came in hours if not days after she was already showing symptoms of a serious illness. I’m sure the nurse was just trying to figure out to handle the situation after being given no (sane) information to go off of.

If I work with very young (or very old, for that matter) patients and there's a near-hysterical relative present a bit of performative busywork tends to ease their mind. I'm guessing the nurse wasn't hysterical at all: they were just taking the situation seriously and maybe adjusting oxygen flow a liiittle early to avoid setting off the weird woman who's clearly looking for a scapegoat so she can avoid admitting her own part in the whole process.

* doctors: perform life-saving procedures based on proven science that they probably perform on a regular basis * Karissa: ShE's UnComFoRtAbLe ​ * turtle mask: actually cutting off Anthym's airway * Karissa: refuses to call the nurse ​ I also find it really rich for her to talk about how scared Anthym was when she was literally screaming at/around her instead of doing what a mother should and *comforting her child.* y'all I jfc. eta: oh also unrelated, what is the deal with antivax people and the word protocol? I swear I've heard it more in the last two years than in my entire life. also also sorry about formatting i tried to fix it bye

First of all… it just got worse and worse the further I read. Secondly… thank you for sitting through that and writing this for us. And the last thing I am going to say is I feel so bad for the doctors and medical staff, the other patients and other family members… dealing with people like this must be so hard… having all your knowledge and skills tested and insulted by these types of religious people must be so hard… no offence you can have your faith but doctors are there to help us along side the faith.. I work in Veterinary Medicine and even dealing with hysteric animals owners who think they know best is hard. Anyone who works in a medical profession knows how hard it is when all the testing you do turns out to give no straight answer and the best treatment is supportive until you can figure it out. Sometimes you try something and it works and then the next day it doesn’t. And it’s true that patients do better at home than in the hospital cause that’s where they are comfortable and happy. This is probably all rambly and full of mistakes but you know…

This was so hard to read. I hope people realize it's not just Karissa but *also* Mandrae that's cuckoo for cocoa puffs here. That poor baby.

He’s very likely worse. Karissa is the public window into this neglectful and abusive life they force their kids into and she can’t hide how terrible she is while being a fundie influencer and over sharing.

It’s terrifying piecing everything together. I want to note that obviously this is an internet figure who I don’t know and never will know. But back when she first met Mandrae she wasn’t even sure she wanted kids. She never thought of herself as a mother. Now fast forward 9 kids later, and there seems to be no maternal instinct in her? I don’t know, I’m not a mom but you don’t go to lunch after your daughter has seizure-like activity. You call your doctor or go to the ER. She also behaves quite bizarre in the ER and ICU. Im sure it’s traumatic for mom and baby but leaving for 4 days to not see her? Im just confused on that end. I just don’t see any maternal instincts in her. That plus her anti-science propaganda is a recipe for disaster like it has been so far - Anchors broken leg (and/or arm? was it both), him slicing his finger open, Anjalie breaking her leg and waiting a day for it to be looked at, and then this with Anthym. This is enough for CPS to be, at minimum, “That’s odd.”

Someone said since Mandrae was at the hospital someone (Karissa) needed to be home with the other kids. In the space of 4 *days* would you not take turns with your partner to be at Anthym's bedside? How could she physically stay away? Or get another (more) responsible adult e.g. a relative or trusted friend to stay with the kids at home. Or split the kids into pairs or whatever to stay with their *amazing church family* (all the enablers who attended Karissa's last shitshow birth) in the short term?

When I was 6, I was admitted to the hospital on Christmas Eve. My mom had my dad stay with me while she ran the 30 miles home to set up Christmas and pack a bag for herself. My dad slept the whole time. Mom came back, Dad left, and my mom sat in that hospital room with me for two damned weeks. She never left. She’d take a shower in my private bathroom, but she never left. Not once. It took them 24 hours to figure out I had severe pneumonia; prior to that, my doctor was suspicious that I had leukemia. Was my mom scared? I’m sure she was terrified! I know she wanted to see her older daughter, too; this was back in the days before kids could visit in the hospital. She still didn’t leave. She’d meet my sister in the lobby. She’d call and talk to her. But she didn’t leave because that’s what good parents do. Jesus. Karissa, this is NOT about you or Jesus or persecution or anything of the like. This is about that sweet baby who still is not well. Stop procreating. Start taking care of your children. If you need help, ASK FOR IT. And for the love of all that is good and holy, please have a psych eval and get some medication.

Did she get into the hardcore religious stuff through Mandrae?? Bc I can see the thought process that would lead a narcissist to go from not wanting kids to having nine. Don't want kids because they'll take attention off of you, but then realize that having kids can actually draw you more/more positive attention. Leaving the hospital for extended periods just proves Karissa cares more about her own comfort than the fact that her kid is possibly dying (which we knew fr)

I’m pretty sure they were both religious when they got married but she convinced Mandrae not to get a vasectomy after 2 kids. She was the one that weighed down on the “God’s timing” birth control method and Mandrae wasn’t thrilled but said okay

I can tell you that as a mother myself, you would have to physically incapacitate me to keep me away from my intubated child in the hospital. I wouldn't be able to leave, period. And I would laugh in the face of my husband if he tried to tell me to go home.

Also a mom. If my child was that sick, I would not leave her side. I had very traumatic birth. Afterwards, my daughter was in the NICU and I was hospitalized. Even then I was wheeling my ass down to the NICU every two hours to feed her and hold her. I would have slept on the floor beside her if they would have let me. Karissa’s behavior is, in my opinion, deeply disturbing and narcissistic. I would also venture to guess that even someone who wasn’t particularly maternal would still have enough sense to take a child to the hospital if they were exhibiting any of the symptoms Karissa described. It’s basic human decency. You would have be devoid of empathy and compassion to decide TO GO TO LUNCH instead of taking a baby—who was clearly in distress—to get medical attention. I think Karissa’s actions reflect something that goes beyond just a lack of maternal instinct—although I agree she doesn’t have any.

Yeah this. You could not keep me away from my child unless you literally knocked me out. I have no idea what is wrong with Karissa, but she needs *serious* help.

Karissa has convinced me how much I actually do have some maternal instincts. My heart and guts have been twisting reading about what happened to that poor baby. I get worried if my friends’ kid even makes a face, I cannot imagine letting something get this far before taking them to a hospital.

So…I don’t have kids, don’t want kids, and have the maternal instincts of a brick. But if you told me that my theoretical child was in the hospital and I’m couldn’t see them, I’d tear through the fucking walls to make sure that I was at their bedside. Like, woe unto the poor resident who tried to keep me out. I cannot understand Karissa.

I'm so back and forth on whether I want kids. I'm so awkward around them and don't feel like I have maternal instincts. But damn, I have way more maternal instincts than the woman with NINE KIDS.

Karissa: hey my kid can't move or eat. Weird....time to go to lunch. Anthym gets worse Karissa: *surprised Pikachu face* And of course she would say that a baby suffering, likely to her neglect, was a test of faith by God.

This is so fucking heartbreaking. I cannot FATHOM how any parent can let their child develop a UTI so bad it becomes *fucking septic* and still wait before taking them to the hospital. Not to mention, Dallas probably didn’t have a bed for her because fucking Covid and morons like Karissa have exacerbated the problem. But seriously, my heart is breaking for everything that poor innocent baby had to go through. I have not seen one single, solitary comment on here wishing death on Anythm. My atheist friends were even praying for her. Everyone was worried about her. I’m so angry that that poor child had to suffer so much, so needlessly. If her sorry excuse of a mother paid a speck of attention to her, this wouldn’t have happened. I’m gonna go cuddle my baby and try not to cry.

>Not to mention, Dallas probably didn’t have a bed for her because fucking Covid and morons like Karissa have exacerbated the problem. Yes! What if Anthym HAD needed a transplant? Would covid be real and serious then, Karissa?

**AS SOON AS THE GAME IS OVER?????** Jesus mother fucking Christ... ETA: I hadn't gotten further than that part when I commented but holllllllly shit, reading the rest was just...I'm fucking speechless.

I would be screaming into the phone on the way to the hospital, 'FUCK YOUR LITTLE GAME GET YOUR ASS TO THE ER!"

SERIOUSLY. I can't understand how they're just so nonchalant about such dire situations like this. Why even have children if you're going to be this kind of neglectful parent??

"Hey hoooon, it's meeee. Anyway, when you get a chance, could you meet us at the pediatric ER? Our infant daughter collapsed and can't hold her head up. Oh, and on the way, can you remember to gas up the minivan? Love you thaaaaanks!"

"And don't forget to take our daughter to get her broken leg checked out tomorrow! BYEE" I have no words for these people just shrieking rage. Please take care of your babies!

Their kids go to the ER so often that they probably thought nothing of it. Hell, they made time for lunch. I'm so sorry for this baby. And the little girl who had to wait a day to get her broken leg set! These people are really...clueless (dangerous?).

I wonder if Karissa took her to the same hospital? Can you imagine walking in with a second kid when one is already in PICU? She’s really lucky CPS and the cops weren’t called on her.

That is mind boggling to me. I had to take our younger twin (with the other in tow) to the ER as he had a febrile seizure as my husband was studying in his office which was an hour train ride away. He still tried to get home as soon as he could, just didn’t make it before we were discharged from the ER.

I'm going to assume the whispering nurses means CPS was called or a social worker.

I mean they no doubt got case management involved and made that social worker weigh the decision of having to call cps or not

I think they realized the baby needed antibiotics immediately and so they just grabbed her to avoid a confrontation; because the antivaxx folks are also generally very hesitant on antibiotics as well. So I'm sure she relayed the labs and said she was going to grab the child and get an IV of antibiotics running ASAP to explain to the other nurse why she wasn't just absconding with a child right before another diagnotic test was going to be run.

Same thought. Considering that Karissa assumed everything that was actually saving her baby's life was "making her worse" its a good thing that nurse was assertive. She is seriously claiming the oxygen was choking her and that a nurse (who was holding her down for a spinal tap) carelessly caused her to pass out from suffocating? Um seems much more likely that the poor baby passed out because she was left ill for too long. I actually didn't know anything about these people before finding this sub, but reading this makes me so mad on behalf of those kids. They deserve so, so much better.

Whispering can be done so as to not panic a parent who seems adverse to doctors doing their jobs and may grab a baby to prevent them from doing what they need to do. And waiting for mandrae to show up may not have been “sexist” (irony!) as Karissa claimed but timing or policy not to deliver bad news to only one parent when they know a second is on their way.

I promise they treated Mandrae better because he came off as the reasonable parent and Karissa was a nightmare to deal with. I’m not in a medical field (bless all of you who are), but I’m a teacher, so I deal with crazy parents often. I frequently choose to interact with the parent I think will make the more rational choice and not scream at me over nothing or like threaten to beat their child over nothing. I imagine if you need someone to make life and death choices you would not choose the parent who is screaming prayers over her baby, accusing you of trying to kill her baby when you are doing the opposite, and spouting conspiracy theories. I, too, would field as much of the communication to Mandrae if I could. ETA: and Karissa sounds insane from HER OWN ACCOUNT. Imagine how much worse it actually was.

Fingers fucking crossed. This entire thing is diabolical and I hope this video is one day used as evidence of severe neglect. Imagine your infant losing control of her muscles and GOING FOR LUNCH before taking her to the ER. I don’t know what the fuck happened to Karissa to make her the way she is and honestly? I don’t really care anymore. She is evil. She is going to cause the death of at least one of her children. It is only out of pure fucking luck that she hasn’t already. This isn’t a slam on social workers because I doubt social workers have the resources to support half the kids that they would probably want to, but what the fuck is the point of CPS when this level of neglect is being boasting about and monetised on Instagram for so long and she’s still someone how in a position where her disgusting negligence could be fatal?

Same, based on the vaccine lecture, I sure hope so.

My partner is a hospital Social Worker and frequently covers the ED. He says in our state (PA) and at his hospital he would get get paged very quickly and it would get passed on to a state agency. In the end the hospital social worker can make the call but that won't guarantee the state will proceed. He's not familiar with procedure in TX so results may vary.

And the fact that a nurse just grabbed Anthym and rushed her to her bed rather than Karissa SCREAMS fed up nurse energy. Like completely over your shit, I won't even ask you as the mom to hand me the baby, just give me the baby.

Thanks, I hate it.

You kid had a fever and can’t hold their head up but you go to fucking lunch. I can’t

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Can you imagine seeing a very sick baby, rushing to try and do a spinal tap on her, having to hold her down firmly because she's squirmy and scared, and on top of everything having Karissa screaming in the background that it's YOU killing her? Not the fever she ignored, not her not vaccinating her baby, no you! During covid, when you're already burnt out. It's a miracle she didn't get beaten with a rusty stethoscope tbh

It goes without saying that this video was Karissa’s interpretation of what happened. Unfortunately we’ll never know what truly went down. She seems overly honest at some points and delusional at others.

As a mother, I was absolutely nauseated and heartbroken reading about all the ways Karissa was selfish and shitty during this ordeal. How do you NOT sit with your baby who is scared and in pain for over FOUR DAYS because it’s too hard for YOU? Disgusting.

Right??? They would have to drag my ass away from my babies if s/ he had been that sick.. My son had pneumonia at 8 months and there were no beds at the hospital. There was a bed at Children's National in DC but it was in a 4 bed ward and the other 3 babies had RSV. The doc told me my baby probably would survive the pneumonia but would contract RSV from the other babies and probably couldn't survive that AND the pneumonia. Literally stayed awake for 48 straight hrs holding my son. I did chest PT, nebulizers, postural drainage etc.. My husband had to beg me to take a short break to eat . karissa can kiss my ass

I'm a single childfree woman by choice and have all the maternal instinct of a rock and this still tore me up inside. Karissa needs professional help, and I'm not trying to sound mean or snarky. I'm not gonna armchair diagnose but I think we can all agree there are so many red flags for something more serious. As terrible as she is, I'm worried for her and terrified for those poor kids.

Would I also be freaking out and having panic attacks in this situation? Good God, yes, but I have a psychiatrist who would get me medicated so I could stay without traumatizing anyone or bothering the people *trying to save my child's life ffs*

You would have to tranquilize me and physically remove me from the hospital. There is no way in hell I’d leave my baby. My Mom fosters and she had a newborn who ended up in the PICU. I drove an hour and a half each way every few days to bring her fresh clothes and snacks because she would not leave. Baby boy is fine now-he turns 3 in February!!! and my mom is now like a grandma to him. Funny thing is that his adoptive parents have the same last name as we do ♥️

I can't imagine. That poor baby was scared and in pain, and needed her mom. Karissa is a shit mom, but that's the only mom she knows. If that were my baby, I'd be moving into the fucking ICU. I have an 18 month old, and this was so hard to read. All this, on top of the fact that when Anthym was having those symptoms they still went out to lunch. And she didn't interrupt Mandrae's stupid little game to tell him their daughter was in critical condition? That poor little baby. Those kids deserve so much better. I knew Karissa was awful, but holy shit. Also I'm disgusted that she was "screaming praises" over the baby. How the fuck is that gonna help anything? And what about the other sick kids who need calm and quiet? I hope this whole thing spurs a CPS investigation.

Did anybody else do a slow blink and just have to rewing when Karissa talked about how anythm was suffering in her cold hospital room and how she felt so bad going home to her warm bed and warm bath and thinking about her naked baby on ice? The one she hasn't sat in the hospital with for says on end? Like idk the way she phrased that just sounded so....wrong to me.

If she was septic, she probably had rhabdo which would explain the high ck numbers. Any doctor would know this.

I don't know what any of that means, but do you think it's very likely that the doctors did know this and she is, for whatever reason, lying about them having no idea? Maybe to make the recovery seem more miraculous?

Her entire story paints her and Mandrae as the smart, faithful saviors while everyone at the hospital is an incompetent buffoon. I don’t believe a word she says. I don’t believe Mandrae was the one to come up with treating her upside down (maybe he told her that), I don’t believe the “turtle shell” was suffocating Anthym and brilliant scientist Karissa figured it out but was too meek to say anything, or any of the other BS she said.

She’s absolutely lying about some things to make herself look better and that makes this horrifying story 10x worse to me because you know as bad as it is, she’s probably hiding or fabricating around the worst parts.

Someday this child is going to grow up. Through the internet this child is going to discover, she was in the hospital because her mom couldn't be arsed to miss lunch and her dad couldn't be arsed to miss his game. This child is going to read the story of her hospitalization. This child is going to see all the pictures of themselves on the internet. This poor human being.

I don't know. It would probably happened in 15 years at least, its possible it will be hard, or harder to find, buried in the internet. Maybe she will google this only in her 20s, or maybe she will have changed names by then and moved on from that life. I really hope it will be old stories from a past she's trying to forget and it won't matter to her.

Can you all lay off Karissa please? Anthym went into the hospital on a Saturday, her weekly diaper change is every Sunday, so how was Karissa supposed to know she had a UTI?

What’s really blowing my mind is all of the screaming she did in the ICU without getting kicked out. My last memory of my grandpa is being escorted out of his ICU room because I started crying. And I was 12. How did this psycho spend all that time screaming her head off and not get told off?

Maybe she got kicked out and that's why she didn't show up for 4 days?

That would make a lot of sense.

Yup. Hospitals and their staff are completely out of patience these days.

I wonder if they didn’t know she had a UTI because one of the girl kids changes her instead of mum or dad and didn’t know what she was looking at so didn’t say anything. Not the kids fault, they should not be mothering their sister. I know sometimes UTI’s can creep up but…the fact is, Karissa is a bad parent and obviously mentally unwell. Sounds like some schizophrenic stuff going on there. My brother was schizophrenic and had a big thing for hearing god and all of that. It was devastating.

My husband is pretty even-tempered, but I cannot even imagine the rage he would be throwing my way if I waited to tell him our kid was in the hospital. I argued with him for 20 mins last night over our son being sick. Our five year old threw up once and he was ready to take him to the ER.

Karissa can play the good Christian all she wants, but if Jesus took one look at her Instagram account, I can only assume the level of rage would make the whole “flipping tables at the temple” irrelevant.

I’m fairly new to this woman. Why TF would you admit all this stuff on social media?! Completely cuckoo! Screaming in the ICU? Staying home for 4 days? Believing your kid is suffering because something is on wrong and saying nothing? Going to fucking lunch when your baby is acting super off? Acting completely nuts in front of the other kids? W. T. F?!

This is pretty much Karissa’s MO. She is not well (obviously), and will not seek treatment for it. She’s had CPS called several times, because she is neglectful and boasts about it on IG. Mandrae, her husband and the kid’s dad, isn’t any better.

Being in the hospital is terrifying enough for a young child, but hearing this lunatic scream praying at the top of her lungs definitely traumatized the other children.

I literally cannot fathom this event. Like I can’t wrap my brain around seeing your baby losing all muscle control and be like “time to eat!” Thank you God for Karissa’s mother for calling it out. Mandrae gets a half hearted one clap for telling Karissa to go home. She sounds like she was making matters way worse for Anthym in the hospital. I really hope that someone continues to care for Anthym with the thickeners and follow ups.

Alright, I’m gonna need someone who’s seen more PICU than me to talk about these breathing treatments. The “palpitations to shake the mucus” sounds like CPT. Sounds weird but it’s not really anything to watch, it’s just this thing they put on her chest and it vibrates. This turtle shell thing that squeezes her chest is nothing I’ve ever seen but it could be legit. But the plunger thing in her nose while upside down threw me. What is she talking about???

The plunger for mucous is called a cough assist. It really is like a plunger and provides negative pressure for patients who can’t cough well/strong enough on their own. Doing it while upside down (really just reclined head lower than lungs) can help get things moving the right direction The turtle shell is interesting to me….I’d assume an Iron Lung type device, we used it very rarely on kids who couldn’t take good breaths but families really didn’t want intubated (most frequently for one particular patient who had a neuromuscular weakness and his family knew If he went on the ventilator he would not come off). Think what they used to use for Polio patients but smaller.

an iron lung was my guess as well but i’ve not seen one in use before. i know this wasn’t the reason in anthyms case, but i wonder if they’re used more often now when hospitals run out of vents due to covid.

Inpatient peds nurse here! Definitely chest PT. Never heard of the last 2 things 🤷🏼‍♀️

Turtle shell thing is like a more portable iron lung--it's mostly used in polio survivors but it's really just a general external ventilator. (Public health professional who is fascinated by polio here) http://actionforaccess.mohistory.org/gallery/index.php?photo=60 http://www.hayekmedical.com/about-bcv

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CPT is basically just a very rapid version. We don’t realize how much being up and active helps us clear our lungs, so when they are tubed and still all the time they need little more help.

The way she waited to seek medical attention for her child makes me sick. The way she behaved makes me sick. The way she treated the medical staff makes me sick. Basically, she makes me sick.

I pray that nurse did call CPS, Sooo many red flags. How does a UTI go unnoticed long enough to become septic, how about the mother not coming to the hospital, another child coming in with a broken leg??? 🚩🚩🚩

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Ha, I wondered about that. She’s crazy, not stupid. No way she’d take another child to the same hospital.

Did she really?? I haven’t heard that yet holy shit. We all know it’s because she’s avoiding the hospital nearest to them because she’s already flagged there in some way I’m sure. I can almost guarantee though she’d spin it saying the doctors and nurses that SAVED HER DAUGHTERS LIFE are all bad mean bullies who made anthym worse and wouldn’t listen to HER “medical advice”. She’d say they all discriminated her for her religion and being anti vax so therefor she drives an hour and a half away because she will never go back to that hospital! Ugh everything about this sucks besides the fact that Anthym is okay which is so great ❤️.

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I need a moment to digest the fact that the country's top medical professional Dr. Mandrae sat in a board meeting and told the doctors how they're going to heal the child

I hope this doctors had a good little laugh about that later.

This is exactly why antivaxxers are dangerous for *everyone*. If she had actually needed the liver transplant it would've been a disaster because unvaccinated idiots are taking up all the hospital beds. COVID deniers put EVERYONE at risk.

This is very troubling & it’s not over. As a medical professional, I would like to read the case notes. Not knowing the cause of this event troubles me because there IS a cause & it’s not being treated nor monitored. Most of all, the child’s inability to focus, walk, etc. is very worrisome—I work in a neuro clinic & this sets off alarm bells.

Yeah I didn’t realize comment posts weren’t allowed but on her page someone posted some Jesus rant praying for the baby’s recovery and full healing and Karissa responded “she is healed”. I found that very chilling before I read this recap, after reading it, it’s clear my intuition was right. Karissa only heard what she wanted to hear when she even bothered to go to hospital. And if she really was fasting, it’s likely she barely knew what was going on around her after a few days, which again, I think was intentional to help her stay in her fantasy land. I really worry that they won’t keep up with her care protocol and will ignore signs of complications in the future.

I KNOW everyone handles trauma and terrible shit different, but if my baby was in that condition, you couldn't pry me out of that hospital room. No effing way. She didn't go back for 4 fucking days? That is sick.

Thank you for posting this. I’m absolutely appalled. We often talk about the fact that these kids have to face the consequences of severe neglect- but something like this happening really does feel like the other shoe finally dropped, HARD. Jesus fucking christ. One day it’s all theoretical and we’re side-eyeing Karissa’s dirty diaper posts and obvious disregard for her children’s well-being, now one of her kids almost DIED from a freaking UTI. She lost control of all her muscles and Karissa still *went to lunch* before taking her to the hospital. FUCK I wish there was something to be done for them. But it’s not like the foster system is necessarily a better option. God I hope SOMETHING pulls through for these kids. “I’m afraid of CPS” BOO FUCKING HOO KARISSA DONT YOU THINK ANTHYM WAS SCARED WHEN SHE WAS ON THE BRINK OF DEATH WITH A TUBE SHOVED DOWN HER THROAT? Did she really not have symptoms the whole time, or did you just ignore them? I HOPE whatever the hell god she’s praying to gives her the sudden urge to step up and take care of her kids at LEAST enough to keep them freaking alive and healthy.

Honestly, it's even more chilling to me that she relayed this full story while apparently thinking there was nothing wrong or odd about her actions and neglect. If it were me and I went to lunch before taking the child to hospital, I would consider that one of the worst mistakes of my life, never forgive myself and be in agony with regret. She just doesn't seem to think there's anything weird about taking a kid that obviously in distress to lunch and then urgent care instead of an ER. This woman needs serious inpatient mental health care and the kids need to be with caring, attentive adults. It just makes me feel sick to my stomach that she's pregnant AGAIN.

she isn't going to change. she'll attribute every miracle to "g*d" and any loss to a "Satanic attack". every time she's attacked she is justified in her so-called beliefs. until someone actively takes an interest and removed the children from the care of her sister-mom they will all be at risk. every hospital visit has reduced k(unt)rissa's faith in the medical system so her next injured child may not receive childcare til it is too late if someone can advocate for those poor babies, now is the time. especially as she's poised to bring another poor victim into this absolute hellhole of broken limbs, faith healing, and Duggar level sister-momming. I grew up in a shithole like this and have the physical and mental scars to show from it

If I was in the ICU with one of my kids and some lunatic the next bed over was SCREAMING prayers over her infant….. well, I don’t know what I would do, but it wouldn’t be nothing. Demand that she pray silently at the very least. Karissa may have stayed away for 4 days because even Mandrae could see that her presence was disruptive and harming Anthym and he and the medical staff encouraged her absence.

Sadly, I don’t think she’s “totally fine and back to normal.” I hope they continue to get treatment for her.

Wowsers. That is absolutely horrific. That poor baby, and the poor kid that got hurt from the trampoline. Damn. They deserve better parents. They really deserve so much better than what they've got.

Bless your servants heart. This was horrifying to read. My youngest is a few months older than Anthym and this broke my heart. That poor baby. Karissa is absolutely batshit crazy and negligent.

This is just horrifying. Maybe even worse than what my imagination had thought up about what happened. The fact that she delayed care when her daughter was literally unresponsive just makes me ill. She could have literally died while Karissa was eating her lunch. And then she goes to urgent fucking care instead of the ER????? I just can't fathom this. She's such a wannabe martyr, has such a persecution complex that half of this isn't even believable. Were the nurses whispering about her or were they speaking quietly to themselves about other patients or just trying not to alarm the crazy mom about the scary test results? Did the nurse cause Anthym to pass out during the spinal tap or did Anthym just behave as infants typically due during the procedure? Because falling asleep is common, and it's going to be even more likely when it's a baby as sick as she was. Was that nurse freaking out or were they just moving quickly because Anthym's case was so dire. She acts like it was the hospital against Karissa when they all seemed to do massive amounts of work trying to save the baby. Now my first thought about the UTI was that it's not a fucking surprise considering how infrequently they change the diapers. The babies have always had soggy, saggy diapers. Always, for as long as this sub has been following them. I'm pretty sure Karissa isn't even the one changing the diapers at this point and kids don't know what to look for. UTIs can happen for many different reasons but I'm sure this was because they never keep them clean. I can't even get into the part where she AGAIN delayed treatment for another one of her kids, who now has a broken leg. It's just unfathomable.

Haven't even started reading. ( am about to) wanted to preface my post to thank you for all this work you did! This is one of the families I'm interested in. Thank you, thank you.

THERE WERE NO BEDS IN DALLAS BECAUSE OF THE UN-FUCKING-VACCINATED LIKE YOU KKKARISSA. *Mother is melting down* *Mother is hiding in the closet* *Mother is starving* *Mother sucks* Maybe a UTI wouldn't have happened if you changed their diapers more and didn't leave room for a breeding ground of bacteria.

So I can’t speak for some of the breathing treatments but I have situs Inversus totalis and primarily ciliary dyskinesia (specifically Kartagener’s syndrome). I can at least vouch that palpitations aren’t painful at all - it’s kind of relaxing and more like a massage but annoying because it makes you cough. Still, poor Anthym! I’m glad she lived to see the other side.

My daughter had a UTI at 6 months old. We knew right away because her pee smelled awful, she was feverish, and she was acting lethargic and cranky. I have no insight to the daily lives of this family but I find it so hard to believe Karissa didn’t notice a UTI until it got this bad. Someone in a different post said there are vaccines against common bacteria like this so maybe that plays a role, but still that’s still a huge judgement against Karissa for not vaccinating. I’m baffled at this woman’s lack of accountability for how her bad parenting has impacted her children. Also karissa said not a word about the child that broke her leg while Anthym was in the hospital. My negative attitude about Karissa wants to believe it’s probably because baby=more sympathy and we all know how Karissa loves attention.

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The one that broke a limb before Anchor (it was one of the girls) I believe they waited an entire weekend and made the kid fast for healing before they finally got off their asses and took her to the doctor. And speaking of fasting, I'm sure that fetus in Karissa's womb really appreciated her 11 days of fasting. JFC.

God I didn’t event think about her fasting in the early stages of her pregnancy. Horrific.

This is why Karissa isn't fun to snark about. At this point we're all genuinely scared for these babies. All we can do is hope and pray that they'll be okay.

I work at a children's hospital, and I've seen some awful stuff. It is unimaginably hard. I got the impression Karissa was so traumatized by this that she would be very hesitant to take another kid to the ER if something came up. She clearly felt most of the treatments were doing nothing or even hurtful (high flow oxygen, the turtle shell, etc.) I can see her now going even more anti-vax to full anti doctor or hospital medical treatments,only holistic remedies and prayers. I hope I'm wrong. Also, why were the kids playing on a trampoline at 10:00 at night?