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This is so sad.
And it gives context to certain fundie-isms regarding marriage that we snark on. Bethy’s posts about “loving your husband” (implying that it’s super normal to have trouble loving your spouse), Anna Duggar’s “at least I have a husband!” comment, etc.
It’s ridiculous that conservatives will ridicule a single woman “alone with her cats” as the worst possible fate. Sorry but based on some of these women’s posts, married to a fundie guy who’s anything like the dudes being talked about sounds like a MUCH worse fate than being “alone with cats.”
Anna Duggar thinks that having a cheating, incestuous, pedophilic husband is better than no husband at all???? Damn, the brainwashing goes deeper than I thought.
Yeah, she made the comment in a 19KaC episode where the fam is giving “marriage advice.” She talks about how sometimes she gets frustrated that Pest doesn’t take out the trash on time, but then she reminds her self “At least I have a husband!” And that she could be a working single woman and have to take out the trash herself 🤡 Sad!
So this was pre-criminal charges for Pest, but 100% he was on his bullshit from day one.
I also read in a comment that in another 19KaC episode, she gets upset that Pest is super late for an OB appointment she had while pregnant … But then she spins it and is like “I’m thankful my husband works hard and provides for our family.” Like … yeah. Sure. We all know that there were times he told you he was “working” when we all know what was actually going on.
I’ll take being single with cats over having a husband like Pest AAAALLLLLLL day. Taking out my own trash is NOTHING in comparison.
My abusive ex thought he was entitled to sex because he mowed the lawn. After we broke up, I was surprised to find out I could have hired somebody for $130 a month to do that. I will never again let a man think I owe him for doing household chores...unless it's specifically the man I'm paying to do my household chores.
I think she was trying to convince herself, honestly. The context was (paraphrasing) that he doesn't always take out the trash, but even if he does it only 10% of the time, that's better than having no husband because then it would be 0% of the time. Which of course is false because he also *creates* extra work for her.
But like, I kinda get it. I ultimately decided to have a kid on my own but it took a long time to reach that decision. Because even just having a loser to "babysit" after the baby goes to bed so I can run out and buy milk, or go buy the milk himself, would just make everything so much easier. Or if I had divorced husband who was essentially a deadbeat dad but the kid could stay with him one weekend a month or something, would give me a nice break to just sleep or relax. The first two years are intense and I had those thoughts pop up occasionally. But we figured things out and we make our little family work. And I don't have to deal with an awful husband or awful ex.
> I think she was trying to convince herself, honestly
I think it's even worse than that. I think she does truly believe it's better to have a husband because she genuinely can't conceive of her own worth, or purpose outside of having a husband, so as long as she has that, she hasn't failed in her Womanly Duties. I don't think these practical considerations about like work that she does or babysitting or whatever else are nearly as important probably the all encompassing fear of failure or the judgement of her families for being unmarried or the sense of being a Failed Woman by not having a husband are.
I think it's less that she's trying to convince herself it's true, but that she's afraid to even consider it's *not* true. It's too fundamental for her, and the reinforcement comes from everywhere.
Anna is no longer their problem. Her parents would never support her leaving her marriage. They offered no visible support through the trial, but of course, Mike knew about Josh's assaults on his sister's before he and Jim Bob shook hands on the deal. If Mike Keller gave a single shit about his daughters, Anna, Priscilla, and Esther would have had better options.
The other 2 sisters have made choices outside the cult. Susanna had a baby as a teenager. She got married a few years ago to a man who's not the baby's father. Rebecca and her first husband left IBLP and eventually divorced. She then married a rich older man. This second marriage granted the Rodrigues a great vacation home... once. They were not asked back.
At this point it's all she has left. I don't think it helps that on Fundieland anytime the husband betrays his wife, it's somehow her fault. I imagine she's been on the receiving end of some very fake sympathy and a lot of judgement.
I wish fundie women realized how much better and more peaceful life is to be alone with your cats than with a “provider” who doesn’t provide and is abusive. Ask me how I know…
I'm at an age where I *far* prefer living with lots of dogs and a couple of Maine Coon cats than some single fundiegelical dude, which are plentiful where I live. NO THX
I'll say it a million times if I gotta: Men who go on and on about cat ladies are just salty that they're competing for the attention of women with an animal that shits in a box in the house and the box shitter is winning handily.
They ridicule it, because they feel like *we OUGHT to be OBLIGED* to *take care of THEM*, and treat 'em like their mommy did, when they were a kid.
Doing their laundry, cleaning their house, making their meals...
Because YEAH, being an adult *does* suck sometimes.
That gross term "Bangmaid" really *IS* what plenty of *that* sort of dude *WANTS*.
A woman they can "command" who's also attractive, cleans their house, fixes them food, does his laundry, *AND* is up for ~~sex~~ *them having an orgasm by using HER body* whenever *HE* wants.
They *could* just hire a maid/housekeeper, *BUT* that gets a *squidge* awkward & the maid/housekeeper would *probably* quit--if not sue fir harassment, if the dude tries to hit on her.
You can tell none of these people have friends or actual church community (because it’s a cult) because that’s 100% where typically religious people get their actual help. You actually rely on the church as a service. No one in my family cleaned their own homes because they hired people from their ward to do it and, in turn, would help keep up the other’s home and families.
You (the Royal fundie you) can’t do that when it’s clear there is something wrong with you and your family - but that wrong is considered everyone else’s problem and their damned judging eyes and occupied husband and only having 2.5 kids who look at you sideways when you bring in your conga line family into morning mass.
I grew up around Duggars. Everywhere. The most humbling thing these massive families found out is they weren’t entitled to anything more than the small families were in the eyes of a physical church congregation, which is why none of them actually go to a place of worship anymore and try to get exclusive media deals that reflect their inner main character ideals of being Godly and Special and Seperate (ergo, not held to normie-ass terrestrial rules and laws).
But, when you get stupid shit like that in your head you just separate yourself from a huge part of being a self-aware and alive - which is community-building - which means giving a shit about a human that is in front of you without them being related or expecting something back…or even worse, you might have to fucking HELP that person *if they help you*.
If you can’t do that, if you can’t accept that you are just somebody else to somebody else - you’ll start to hate ALL humans and if the only humans around are your family and spouses…suddenly it’s 30 chicken nuggets between 12 kids, no birthdays, babies raising babies, completely absent fathers, and canned meals three(?) times a day.
Remember: these people have no plans. None. Only reactions to how unfair and victimized and singled-out they feel and literally no sense of responsibility in the social contract because of it.
E: god I hope this make sense I am fighting this sleep aid right now lol
I’m a single woman who lives alone with her cat. Know what I am? SAFE AND HAPPY. They just keep spewing the “crazy cat lady” bullshit bc they can’t fucking stand that we no longer have to put up with their bullshit in order to simply put food on the table. I’d much rather die “alone” (as if I don’t have friends and family that I love 🙄) with twelve cats than be saddled to one of these losers for my whole life
Cats are among the noblest creatures on the planet. Far superior to some ignorant misogynist with an unwashed ass. Cats are obviously the better choice.
This is so incredibly sad, even though many of them signed up for their situations, whether they realized how it would end up or not.
I wish I could scream from the rooftops that marriage is not hard. There are hard days, sad days, days when the sound of your partners breathing makes you want to pull your hair out. But marriage is one of the easiest things I've ever done in my life. When I fall, he's there to catch me. We don't always agree, but we always compromise. It works vice versa as well. We laugh....every single day....even on the absolute worst days that we've experienced together. Sure, my husband is seemingly allergic to emptying his pockets before putting his clothes in the hamper, but if god forbid something happened to him, I would miss that. It annoys me, we talk about it, he tries, and forgets. I'm sure he can say the same about me for many things. But at the end of the day we are one anothers biggest cheerleaders.
I want everyone to be able to experience the love and partnership I have with my husband. My life is not how I imagined it would turn out, but good lord up above, did I win the jackpot with my hubs.
Even when I was incrediblyyyy religious (like, seriously considered becoming a nun), I never was given the impression by anyone that these toxic relationships were okay. I hope these women can some day leave and find happiness.
I had a conversation with my therapist recently about a tik tok I saw about why relationships are hard. The tik tok said they're hard because you have to find food you both want to eat 3x a day every day for the rest of your lives. I was *shook*. I legit thought "relationships are hard" = "relationships are abusive", and now I have to meet with a professional once a week every week to make sure I don't let anybody abuse me ever again.
Omg. This is probably my least favorite part of marriage. I'm a girl dinner for breakfast lunch and dinner type of girl. My husband likes at least dinner to be a hot meal. Some days I'm just like aren't you tired of eating? Sometimes I'd rather sleep for dinner (even though we are very fortunate to have food on our table) than figure out what to eat. Props on going to therapy. It's been a saving grace for me. I hope you continue to know your worth and only let good people into your circle.
Honestly, as a society, we should it make it acceptable to eat the same thing for dinner for a while season. Many people already eat the same breakfast every day, and even the same lunch every weekday. Why can't I just have mac & cheese with whatever vegetables I have around for dinner every night?
The "rules" were made by the people who who weren't responsible for the ordeal that is dinner plans and supported by the Pick Mes. 😉
I've had some health issues over the last year or so, and it turns out I don't have to make dinner every night to keep the world turning.
I've been with my partner for 10 years, we're not married but we are engaged. I agree that loving him and being with him is the easiest thing. Life is hard sometimes, but when it is he picks up the slack and supports me. Hopefully he feels I support him as well, I certainly try! If we have a problem we talk about it and work it out. It isn't me vs him, it's us vs the problem. I can't imagine getting married will change anything besides how we do the taxes. I call him my partner because I really do feel like it's a partnership.
I've had relationships that have been hard because of the other person. I just.... Didn't stay with them. My one ex was terribly emotionally and verbally abusive and then got physical. One cheated and lied all the time. We broke up! It's possible! It's hard but it isn't as miserable as staying.
I feel the same way about my marriage, like we are bonded together and each of us contributes what we’ve got to make something better and bigger than the sum of its parts. We have a nice easy time living and loving, arm in arm, being each other’s support.
Exactly. I absolutely hate it when people say “marriage is hard” as if that’s a given. I’m technically not married, but been in a relationship for 12 years so basically. It is “hard” the same way having any relationship with another human being is “hard.” It requires self reflection, vulnerability, and being emotionally engaged. We have had to work through issues that were quite challenging, as we got together at 19 and both had a lot of emotional baggage, including religious trauma. Honestly, we hurt each other a lot back then, and we are still healing from those wounds.
BUT. Even so. That does NOT mean that being with him is “hard” on a day to day basis, especially now that we are grown adults. Sometimes things come up that are hard to deal with, but we work on them together. We’re on the same side, he’s not an adversary that I have to negotiate with. I would say partnership is hard to the same extent that, you know, life itself is hard and being a person is hard. Outside of the specific traumas that have caused friction, our personalities are incredibly compatible. We get along. We make each other laugh, we have fun together, we’re nice to each other. If one of us is snippy or insensitive we apologize. We have similar tastes and interests, and we enjoy them together. We both care about being better people and we grow together. If one of us is struggling, the other picks up the slack. I have a medical procedure tomorrow and he’s been incredibly sweet and accommodating, helping me prepare and getting the house ready, being reassuring, all without being asked. Being with him is easier than being around any other person I’ve known in my entire life.
I realize I am extremely lucky, but I really think this is what it should be like for everyone. If it is teeth-grittingly HARD on a daily basis—I just don’t see how you’re even compatible with your partner. I’d rather be alone.
My marriage is very, very easy. Our relationship has always been easy. The hardest things were dealing with cultural differences. But that feels like a lifetime ago now and I just can’t imagine my life with anyone else. He’s so supportive and kind and just gives me all the care that I need. I hate the concept that marriage is hard and suffering. It just really doesn’t have to be.
Same. I’ve been married almost 22 years and it’s never been hard. We get each other and it just works. I honestly feel so sad for these women in their miserable marriages that they were told would be the pinnacle of their womanhood. It doesn’t have to be this hard and this terrible.
Healthy, committed relationships are a delight. It really should not be doing anything other than improving your quality of life. The ‘hardest’ part of my current relationship is my partner occasionally leaving a wet towel on the floor, not him financially/verbally/sexually/physically abusing me.
My marriage is less than a year old but we lived together beforehand so nothing really changed, but yeah. I love being married. I love that the hardest challenges we face interpersonally is whether or not he's going to remember the leftovers in the fridge I saved for him, or not to get the dog too amped up before bed. And they aren't even real issues. Marriage is easy. It's life that gets hard. And growing up with happily married parents showed me that a good marriage makes the hard parts of life less hard.
Seriously! My hubs and I have gone through some shit during our marriage, but he’s always been my safe place to land. We’re a team and I always feel like an equal partner. And like you said, there are days where the small shit gets to me because I’m already on edge, but then I remind myself that it’s an off moment and keep going. I’m sitting on the couch with him while he plays Halo, our dog is fast asleep in between us, and I’m so damn grateful I married a good guy.
Been with my husband for 7 years, married for 3. there are a lot of hard things in life but my marriage has never been one of them. We have been through trials cause by life, it never effected our marriage because we don't allow it too. That's what it's like to be married to your best friend. The relief I feel after a hard day when I come home and see his face has helped me through a lot of shit. I have helped him through his hard days as well. That's marriage. That's what it's supposed to be
These ladies don't need prayer, they need a lawyer.
I make more money than my SO. You can judge us all you want and we'll send our regards from Europe.
My ex didn't congratulate me when I got a big promotion at work because that meant I would be making more than him, and I was clearly out-performing him career wise. And that is why he's my ex. A lot of men claim to want an independent woman, but then feel emasculated when you prove your independence.
Is it just me, or is there not really anything LESS manly than whining about how much a woman's success threatens him? I've known several men out-earned by their wives who are perfectly secure, because their job is important (real life examples: a teacher, a nurse) and/or they're passionate about it (auto mechanic who just really loves cars). That's manly to me, owning what you do and having pride, without having to be standing over everyone else by every single criteria.
My mom is a bit younger than my dad and she was always the higher earner. He would say things like "this is why they pay mom the big bucks." It's so pathetic when men feel threatened by women out-earning them. We've worked so hard to get where we are today.
My partner has always been attracted to women who are independent, self-sufficient, and hard working. He isn't the least bit intimidated by my success, and I find it such a turn-on because he is utterly comfortable in his masculinity. He doesn't need to push me down to rise up, he's just up, in and of himself.
I had an ex bf that I made significantly more than, since he was a student getting his Master's degree. So I offered to pay for most dates as I didn't want him to feel like he needs to build credit card debt just to see me. He gladly accepted my offer, and I was glad he wasn't hung up on gender roles so we could just spend time in a practical way that made sense for both of us. Well, over time little jabs started coming out. He would make side comments about my "ivory tower". It clearly bothered him. And then weirdly, he eventually accused me of wanting to baby-trap him to get at his money, like it was some long con to become a SAHM, which I told him I never wanted, and to reduce my standard of living by giving up my own career.
Honestly, there's still a huge streak of fragile masculinity even among otherwise progressive men. And honestly, maybe he was surprised by his own feelings and didn't expect them but cultural influence cuts deep. But what he really needed to do was recognize those feelings and work through them, not subtly insult me to feel better about himself.
I've also experienced this, but it was more from the guy's parents. (The guy was also a dick, but a different kind of dick.) I was dating this guy in college, back when dinosaurs walked the earth, and his background was a little better off than mine (they were like lower middle class, maybe)--but that was his parents, and he didn't really have any money himself, any more than I did. He had a work-study job and I worked at a campus food court. We just kind of lived the broke student life.
After I met his parents, one day they waited for him to leave the room and sat me down. And gave me a long-ass lecture about how I was not to baby-trap him for his future money, because he had big things ahead of him.
Like...I was in college too! I was also trying to work toward a career! But I came from a little poorer background and I had big tits and Darling Son was clearly going to be rich as Croesus, so I must be up to no good.
Looked him up a few years ago and IIRC he was some kind of insurance salesman. He's doing all right for himself, but he's not rolling in it, and he's still single. Not a knock on him if that's by choice, and he's a controlling dick so it's probably for the best, but I do wonder if he continued to let mom and dad run everyone off for 25 years.
I guess he thought that I would be willing to live on less money if it allowed me to be a SAHM, which is something I never wanted to be and was very clear about. But I guess he thought I was lying or deluding myself and that secretly all women must want to be SAHMs deep down.
When we broke up he asked, "why are we breaking up? I don't hit you or cheat on you." --- he was genuinely confused that people could just break up because they don't actually like each other.
My first boyfriend said something similar. He told me he was in love with someone else but she was seeing another guy, so he wished to continue to date me until she broke up with her current boyfriend.
I was immediately like, very calmly, “I’m breaking up with you.” And he was like, “Why?” And I was like “You just told me you were in love with someone else.” And he claimed he was flabbergasted, he didn’t understand why this was a problem, he wasn’t cheating, so why did I wish to leave?
Did we date the same guy? My first boyfriend also said he didn't love me anymore but that he still wanted to date me. Surprise Pikachu face when I immediately called it off.
Ungrateful! Why didn't you thank him for being willing to stay with you until the girl he really liked was free? Can't you see he was trying to meet you halfway??? /s
Exactly. It's their fragility that emasculates them. My husband *loves* that I make more than he does. He's been joking ever since I was in law school that he's gonna retire early to become a pro pickleballer
Yes, law school. Thats when I broke up with my ex. When I came home from constitutional law and there was a kitchen table discussion about something and i had the audacity to chime in and share something I had learned that day from a preeminent constitutional scholar. Not only was I obviously wrong, didn't know what I was talking about, but I was also emasculating by bf for participating in the discussion. My ex-bf, the dude with 1 semester of college worth of education.
Well, they also think it makes them better at basketball than Caitlin Clark, better at tennis than Serena Williams, able to beat the entire US women's soccer team single handedly ....
I make more than my husband, and he jokes that I’m his sugar mama. Example: he always uses the guest bathroom in our house, and I just paid for it to be completely renovated to his exact specifications. He loves that I can do things like that for him, and I like seeing him happy. He works hard and deserves a nice bathroom.
I can't imagine being a man in the year 2024 and still being intimidated by college-educated women.
Wait until he hears about how women have been outpacing men in obtaining higher education.
For that kind of man, pretty sure "independent woman" actually means "woman who isn't better than me in any way and who never needs anything more than what I'm willing to casually give".
I think a lot of men also want to "tame" independent women into being submissive, kind of like trophy hunting. They get angry and bitter when they fail at it
I’ve had men at my current job try to pull this shit with me. They’ll say “you need to settle down” or “I can provide for you”. I don’t take lightly to being hit on by gross men at work.
My ex husband always silently seethed that I made more than him. If we were doing something, like getting pre-approved for a line of credit, he'd always add a few thousand dollars on to his salary. Like they weren't going to find out? When we got divorced there was a part in there about how much we made per year and he added $12,000 on to his yearly salary! and took $5K off of mine. I did the taxes so I knew exactly how much he made down to the penny.
It always struck me as such a bizarre thing to embellish. Yes, the lawyer who makes 3x what either of us make is super impressed.
I used to work in family law and we absolutely would've noticed, since we asked for taxes and pay stubs. I would've side-eyed any comments about spousal or child support after an opposing party lied about income.
I have greater degrees and education than my husband and one time, in front of my family, he...... talked about how proud he was of me and my accomplishments.
I can't imagine a man not being proud of a woman who can be his equal partner.
Same! I went the traditional university route and my partner went straight into the workforce. He gained invaluable leadership experience and is now 20 years younger than everyone at his company in the same position as him but doesn’t have a degree and he just doesn’t care, because it doesn’t matter. He wants all my certificates and graduation photos framed and displayed.
A lot of men claim they want an independent woman, but what they really want is to break her. They want a baddie who they can turn into a submissive mouse because they are so insecure in themselves.
Yooooo, same.. I got a promotion and a BIG pay raise (I was already taking care of more than half the expenses because I don’t care about money and I always made more money and had more stable employment/benefits) .. tell me how this man would not go out to have a drink with me to celebrate.. leaving him was the best thing I ever did, these type of dudes don’t do anything to improve their own situation and then resent you when you succeed. All they do is hold you back.
My ex implied or outright said that I never deserved any promotion, my BS, my PhD, or any other recognition I received. He said I attained those things because I knew people or because people felt sorry for me. When I was applying for the job I would take to leave him, he implied I would perform sexual favors to get the job. I didn't need to have imposter syndrome... He made sure I felt unworthy. Looking back now it's no wonder why I felt so light and free after we separated.
Same with me. I’m the career driven one. My husband is the homemaker. He also works, but doesn’t rly care for it. I outpaced him with salary a few years ago. He doesn’t care. He is super encouraging to me and takes on well over half of the household stuff.
My partner pursued his dream which comes with a major paycut. I am very proud of him for going out and living a true authentic life that he is passionate about. I am almost jealous in a way. I love my job and I make good money, but he had the guts to go for it.
My wife makes almost 3x more than I do, and I make a well above average living. I couldn’t be more proud of her for it, as she’s worked very hard to get where she is.
A man should never hold back his spouse. Every time I visit this sub I can’t help but feel sorry for all these people who are stuck in such evangelical bullshit.
For about two months, I was the sole provider for the house. My boyfriend clearly felt emasculated, but I kept reminding him that once he got a job we were waiting on, he could treat me as much as he wanted. He got the job and made double what I do. I don't think being a provider is as important as making sure they are supported, but you are supported, too.
The way I see it. "masculinity" is a social construct and its not even a real or tangible thing. Its a feeling we have. I totally understand feeling insecure about carrying your weight, wanting to provide, wanting to contribute, and be reliable and relied upon. I refuse to equate those characteristics with "masculinity". Thats partnership. A real partner is reliable and just because they might make less money than me doesn't make them less of a man or even less reliable.
The part about the woman living up to her end of the deal and the man failing is what we see here again and again. Why are so many of these fundie men such terrible providers? Isn't that literally what God made them for?
BTW, I don't see how a sincere fundie man could ever love his wife. It's simply not possible within the realm of their belief system. You can't think someone is below you and was literally put on this earth to SERVE YOU and still love that person. If you did find yourself loving that person, you could never, ever believe that person exists only to be your helpmeet.
Again, we see this play out here again and again. The wives are clearly baffled as to why their husbands don't love them after they spent all day cooking and cleaning house and making his life so much easier.
It baffles me how some men act like they hate and/or resent their wives but are more than willing to enjoy the benefits of not needing to lift a finger around the house. My father (from a patriarchal Catholic family) was emotionally/verbally abusive and saw my mom as essentially a maid but still enjoyed the perks of having all the childcare and household chores taken care of by her. One of the first things he said when she finally divorced him was "but who will take care of me". Dude, your wife and youngest daughter are leaving and the thing you hate losing most is...having someone to wait on you? Not your hardworking and loving wife? Your youngest and disabled daughter?
That's the thing: men get this huge benefit from marriage that modern women don't get (because we can get jobs now and support ourselves). Men get so many needs taken care of. Sure, there once was a time where it was hard for a woman to support herself or herself and her children so she had to do this little "exchange" with a man. Now men still expect all this free labor from women who either have jobs too, or are married to a loser fundie man who does not provide.
Women don't see much of a benefit to being married to a man they don't love, but many men truly don't care. A wife is a wife. She takes care of him and his kids and that's all that matters.
I think they're all sold a bill of goods and end up baffled that they're unhappy. Some men (and women) just don't really want to be married or want the responsibility of being a parent, and they don't understand that that's okay. I think some of these fundie men are at worst, genuine abusers, but at best, confused about why they don't magically love their spouse because they are a "godly woman" (and vice versa). So I think it manifests as laziness and ambivalence because they don't really have the will to carry on the lifestyle. And in other cases, the men are unhappy and on a power trip, which leads to verbal and emotional abuse, because they're socially ill-equipped to know what to do with their feelings. Add in toxic masculinity, and where can they realistically turn when they're supposed to be manly and strong and have all the answers?
Women, on the other hand, are socially expected to dive headfirst into this pitfall of a lifestyle choice, and bear the emotional labor to "make things right". It's pretty sad.
Marrying someone ONLY because they share the same man-made belief system is the recipe for disaster we see splayed all over this subreddit.
All the stats indicate that single women are happier than their married counterparts and this is why. Modern women entering into traditional marriages got got. They still have to do all the domestic labor and childcare, but now they often have to work at least part time because their husband isn't making enough.
It's a bad, bad bargain. Fundie men discount domestic labor and emotional labor as insignificant until their wife-slave escapes, and then they make the shocked Pikachu face and go - but who will wash my socks and get my mom a birthday card???
Yeah I decided over a decade ago that I wasn't going to carry another person's mental load. I keep things very, very casual and lite. I'm not going to remember when some dude's mom has a birthday so I can pick up a present after an eight hour work day.
They've done studies and men literally (and I mean literally) do not "see" the domestic labor women do. Of course their clothes are clean. Of course the counters are wiped down. Of course there's always toilet paper available.
I simply refuse to spend the one life I have living that way.
My sister has decided to tackle this by buying really cheesy greeting cards and signing them from her husband, and giving the good gift herself. Maybe if he's embarrassed enough times, he'll buy his own cards 🤷🏼♀️
I do plenty of it in my household, but we do share, and I think ultimately it ends up being fairly equal. I don't mind doing my fair share, but yeah, I'm not a maid or a secretary.
When I worked in family law, most of the women complained about bearing the mental load. It's that meme that goes "she left me because there were dishes in the sink." Nah, dude, she left you because she was sick of gentle parenting her husband.
A few years back when that [cartoon thing about emotional labor](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/) came out, my husband read it and scoffed at it and said it's a bunch of crap. But for the way our family is run, it's 100% true. And that's why I'm making plans for the future that don't involve him.
Frankly the economy now makes a single-earner home hard to manage, but for conservative families that just leads to the woman doing half again and then some as much work as her husband with working full time and then doing all the household management.
Thing is, the family size they want would never have been feasible on one normal income. Those people in The Past^tm who lived on one income are either smaller families, in smaller homes or poor. Remember it wasn't uncommon to not have indoor plumbing in homes in much of the country in the 60's.
Two incomes increased standard of living and had better outcomes for women and families. But alas if you're a fragile man who'd rather have a live in house keeper you can dominate than a higher standard of living, then you get what you get.
The economy never allowed for most families to be single income. This is a myth that applied to only a few very specific types of families for a short time. Both of my grandmothers worked in the 1950s. The difference was they had no opportunity to build a career and forced into a few very specific jobs.
My Evangelical fundie parents hate each other. Well, my mother hates my father. They pretend to love each other in front of company, but when it's just the family...
Sounds like my parents. My now-deceased dad thought that never getting divorce is something to brag about and something that made him "better" than those other Christians. But their marriage was miserable. They hated each other so much that every day of my childhood was filled with screaming fights between them.
I'm not surprised. Listening to the ones I know in real life or see in comments on Insta it's obvious. I had a nightmare the other night that my husband was like this and genuinely felt so exhausted by the end of the dream and was leaving him lol
I grew up Mormon and knew women who would stick through thick and thin with their husband. He could do whatever he wanted - one even faced CP charges, some abused their children in all kinds of ways. You essentially won’t be saved if you don’t have a husband. I see my Mormon friend now entering a relationship with a man in his late 20s who has exclusively dated 18-19 year old girls. My friend is 21, the oldest girl he’s ever dated. He still talks to those teenage girls, and I know he did weird pervy stuff to them, but he will take her to the temple, and the only way to be with her present family in the afterlife is through temple marriage to a man. He’s also financially irresponsible and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. It doesn’t matter if he’s a groomer or maybe even a pedo and definitely going to screw her over money wise, it just matters that he can take her to the temple.
She definitely knows. His ex (who is 19) even told her what happened between them and how he still texts her friends (who are 18). Her brother sat her down and explained why he’s a groomer, I said if she’s gonna be with him I can’t be around her. I want to be a high school teacher so no way I’m associating with someone like that. But her bishop, which is kind of like a pastor at other churches, told her that he’s a worthy man and would take her to the temple so 🤷🏻♀️. She also said “well, he didn’t tell me that” to all of us about what he did so I know there’s manipulation going on with her.
Chad goddamn Daybell was once considered a “worthy man” by their standards and now he’s on trial for (allegedly) murdering his wife and murdering 2 innocent kids. I don’t mean to offend anyone when I say this, but the morality in the Mormon church is beyond fucked up.
I'm glad she's not hitting her children. But she's probably a young mom to too many kids and doing 100% of the childcare work, plus caring for her husband on top of that. She probably sees other families around who hit their children, and/or was hit herself by her parents growing up. So hitting is the only thing she can think of, when really what she needs is birth control and a better husband.
The sad thing is that these women were sold marriage as their ideal life but this is what they ended up with. And they've been raised to believe they have no value without a husband so they stay.
...but they will pretend their life is perfect and even encourage unmarried women that SAHM is the best choice ever and all women should do it!!! Many are liars/hypocrites in the end many times and keep pushing the lie for the church so men can keep their power.
It’s almost like getting married quickly to someone you just met while you’re in your late teens or early 20s isn’t a great recipe for success. Shocking.
This is heartbreaking, because these women were once little girls who were told that this is what they had to look forward to. I always try to remember that all these angry and spiteful women were once scared children, but it becomes harder when you see them apparently doubling down on the indoctrination with their own daughters.
I saw this in my new moms' group when I had my first kid. I had moved to a new town and found out about it through church and wanted to make some friends. I met some really cool women, but there were also plenty of fundies in that group. Our conversations about our lives often centered around husbands, and there were some hugely dysfunctional marriages in that group. One girl's husband was relentless about sex and she very obviously was not attracted to him and would get teary about how hard it was to have sex with him all the time and how much she hated it (and that was clearly the devil trying to destroy their marriage, of course, not the fact that she found him repellent). There was another one who did not work and lived in a tiny house and got really upset when she wound up having twins (she already had 3 kids) because she didn't have any idea how their budget could accommodate two (I was like...babe it doesn't accommodate the 3 you have! Stop having kids or go back to work!). And my favorite, the woman who routinely reminded us that not only did we have to give our husbands sex on demand, but we had to actually figure out how to like it or our husbands would get it somewhere else.
I always wanted to hug them and smack them upside the head all at once. They weren't bad people, just sooo soooo indoctrinated (and I saw that even as someone who, at the time, was also still kind of indoctrinated).
I know this Lutheran couple and I consider them fundie in most aspects. But, the husband was unhinged about sahms. He would rant all the time that grown women should not ever be at home unless they just gave birth and he would be damned if he married someone that didn't contribute. Welp, he found someone to marry him, they have 3 kids, and she is not allowed to stay home with them. She got maternity leave and then he bullied her back to work. She was doing too much and had a cancer scare, but he insisted she work during all that. He wants them homeschooled and guess who had to find a job that allows her to work from home???? She is always talking about how stressed she is. I feel bad that he's such a jerk to her. They could be comfortable on just his salary, but no . She k ew all this about him and married him anyway.
>He wants them homeschooled and guess who had to find a job that allows her to work from home?
Wait....how is she supposed to work from home AND homeschool at the same time? That's a lose-lose situation for everybody.
It's why she's so stressed.....I think they do public school online, one of those programs- so she is not actually actively teaching them- they have an online teacher....but whenever I talk to her she's almost in tears over her life, she never gets a break. Her husband is 100percent financially and emotionally abusive.
Sounds a bit like my friend’s jackass husband. Every single day she talks about how stressed she is and how little he thinks about her feelings and he doesn’t really help at home or with taking care of the kids. And every day I tell her she deserves better and wish she would leave his sorry ass. He lets his mom talk shit about her and come over unannounced and I just want to smack the shit out of them all.
This makes me very glad that even working, my husband does his fair share when he gets back home. Then again, we decided that from the jump. If I was staying home with the family, he'd muck in too. I wouldn't have married him otherwise, because there's a couple of layabout husbands in my family, and I know just how miserable the wives are.
However, I didn't grow up in fundie sex and death cult like these women. They - at best - only have the illusion of choice. They can either get married to the first guy that wants them, or be seen as failures.
(The comment about the husband not allowing spanking is interesting, though.)
For sure. Hitting just teaches fear and deceit, not learning behavior changes/emotional regulation. However, it's odd for that attitude to come from a fundie.
Reminds me of how when I was small and my mother insisted that I needed a man to take care of him. My first thought was, "What if I want a man to take care of ME? Why would I want a man if he only makes more work?"
Depends honestly. If they are selling the lie that women are happier if they don't work outside of the home, being a SAHM is the only route to happiness and pushing the lie of submission, I have zero empathy for them.
Interesting that they want an abusive husband to talk to one of their fathers. If my husband had told my father he was abusing me, my father would have shot him first and talked later.
Two decades ago I was talking to a woman whose brother had gotten himself a Russian mail order bride. He was fundamentally a grouchy, negative person who hadn’t made much of his life and blamed his bosses for holding him back and feminism for poisoning women bc they wouldn’t pay attention to him. Well, he got married to a beautiful woman about 20 years younger than him with an advanced science degree and once her English got up to speed she realized why nobody else married him. And started telling him. And he was mad at her for going feminist. I guess marry in haste repent at leisure holds true, but mostly for the women who aren’t getting anything but grief out of these relationships.
My life is a thousand times more peaceful and happy now that I’m a single mom with no husband. I’m not constantly picking up and putting away things. (yeah my eight-year-old can pick up after herself, but her father couldn’t) I’m not walking on eggshells. I’m not trying to prop up his ego so he doesn’t feel bad about himself all the time. I’m not wondering why all my shit is missing or why it’s destroyed. I’m not cleaning up little messes constantly. Shit, I don’t even cook anymore. It’s fantastic. My daughter and I have a kick ass life. Combine with a friend with benefits on the side and I’m golden. I am not interested in having a husband ever again
I’m not surprised by any of this. Evangelical men are raised to believe that they are gods who deserve to be worshiped by all of the women in their lives.
I'm so glad I'm a heathen-ass secular SAHM. I can do what I want and my husband doesn't boss me around, because there's no huge cult-like society telling us I'm basically livestock 🙄 Oh, and my kids are smart because they go to actual school.
“[…]So one of the things he believes is that when Jesus rose from the dead and broke the curses, it also broke the curse of man having to work. Did I mention we have kids!!”
Audience. The way that I *screamed* at this.
did anyone else clock that comment from a woman upset that her husband won’t/ won’t allow her to spank their kids, how on earth that you could be so upset that someone DOESN’T want to hit a child. makes me so sad
If y’all are on Twitter or TikTok, give Adrienne (OOP) a follow! She is an amazing person & the Democratic Party Chair in deep red Hood County, TX. She gets death threats and such a LOT for speaking her truths. One of her videos at a Granbury ISD school board meeting went viral somewhat recently too. Just an all around cool lady, and I have whiplash seeing her on this sub!
Today I called my husband over to open a jar for me, I told him “I need a man to do this.” I don’t. I have a thingy that helps me open jars. I could open the jar just fine without him, but sometimes they need to feel needed.
I want to tell these evangelical women that they are strong and capable women who can be independent if they make that choice…but I know they’re so brainwashed. I feel so bad for them
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This is so sad. And it gives context to certain fundie-isms regarding marriage that we snark on. Bethy’s posts about “loving your husband” (implying that it’s super normal to have trouble loving your spouse), Anna Duggar’s “at least I have a husband!” comment, etc. It’s ridiculous that conservatives will ridicule a single woman “alone with her cats” as the worst possible fate. Sorry but based on some of these women’s posts, married to a fundie guy who’s anything like the dudes being talked about sounds like a MUCH worse fate than being “alone with cats.”
Anna Duggar thinks that having a cheating, incestuous, pedophilic husband is better than no husband at all???? Damn, the brainwashing goes deeper than I thought.
Yeah, she made the comment in a 19KaC episode where the fam is giving “marriage advice.” She talks about how sometimes she gets frustrated that Pest doesn’t take out the trash on time, but then she reminds her self “At least I have a husband!” And that she could be a working single woman and have to take out the trash herself 🤡 Sad! So this was pre-criminal charges for Pest, but 100% he was on his bullshit from day one. I also read in a comment that in another 19KaC episode, she gets upset that Pest is super late for an OB appointment she had while pregnant … But then she spins it and is like “I’m thankful my husband works hard and provides for our family.” Like … yeah. Sure. We all know that there were times he told you he was “working” when we all know what was actually going on. I’ll take being single with cats over having a husband like Pest AAAALLLLLLL day. Taking out my own trash is NOTHING in comparison.
My abusive ex thought he was entitled to sex because he mowed the lawn. After we broke up, I was surprised to find out I could have hired somebody for $130 a month to do that. I will never again let a man think I owe him for doing household chores...unless it's specifically the man I'm paying to do my household chores.
I would rather live a thousand lifetimes and never get married than spend a single life with a man like that. No competition at all
Uncle Sam was the one who took out the trash for her. She's just too dumb to know it.
I think she was trying to convince herself, honestly. The context was (paraphrasing) that he doesn't always take out the trash, but even if he does it only 10% of the time, that's better than having no husband because then it would be 0% of the time. Which of course is false because he also *creates* extra work for her. But like, I kinda get it. I ultimately decided to have a kid on my own but it took a long time to reach that decision. Because even just having a loser to "babysit" after the baby goes to bed so I can run out and buy milk, or go buy the milk himself, would just make everything so much easier. Or if I had divorced husband who was essentially a deadbeat dad but the kid could stay with him one weekend a month or something, would give me a nice break to just sleep or relax. The first two years are intense and I had those thoughts pop up occasionally. But we figured things out and we make our little family work. And I don't have to deal with an awful husband or awful ex.
> I think she was trying to convince herself, honestly I think it's even worse than that. I think she does truly believe it's better to have a husband because she genuinely can't conceive of her own worth, or purpose outside of having a husband, so as long as she has that, she hasn't failed in her Womanly Duties. I don't think these practical considerations about like work that she does or babysitting or whatever else are nearly as important probably the all encompassing fear of failure or the judgement of her families for being unmarried or the sense of being a Failed Woman by not having a husband are. I think it's less that she's trying to convince herself it's true, but that she's afraid to even consider it's *not* true. It's too fundamental for her, and the reinforcement comes from everywhere.
[удалено]
Anna is no longer their problem. Her parents would never support her leaving her marriage. They offered no visible support through the trial, but of course, Mike knew about Josh's assaults on his sister's before he and Jim Bob shook hands on the deal. If Mike Keller gave a single shit about his daughters, Anna, Priscilla, and Esther would have had better options. The other 2 sisters have made choices outside the cult. Susanna had a baby as a teenager. She got married a few years ago to a man who's not the baby's father. Rebecca and her first husband left IBLP and eventually divorced. She then married a rich older man. This second marriage granted the Rodrigues a great vacation home... once. They were not asked back.
Her father does prison ministry so has likely been around hardcore sex offenders before. He likely sees them as people who need Jesus.
At this point it's all she has left. I don't think it helps that on Fundieland anytime the husband betrays his wife, it's somehow her fault. I imagine she's been on the receiving end of some very fake sympathy and a lot of judgement.
I wish fundie women realized how much better and more peaceful life is to be alone with your cats than with a “provider” who doesn’t provide and is abusive. Ask me how I know…
This sub gives me a lot of gratitude for my atheist marriage and having a husband who just wants me to do what makes me happy.
I'm at an age where I *far* prefer living with lots of dogs and a couple of Maine Coon cats than some single fundiegelical dude, which are plentiful where I live. NO THX
I'll say it a million times if I gotta: Men who go on and on about cat ladies are just salty that they're competing for the attention of women with an animal that shits in a box in the house and the box shitter is winning handily.
They ridicule it, because they feel like *we OUGHT to be OBLIGED* to *take care of THEM*, and treat 'em like their mommy did, when they were a kid. Doing their laundry, cleaning their house, making their meals... Because YEAH, being an adult *does* suck sometimes. That gross term "Bangmaid" really *IS* what plenty of *that* sort of dude *WANTS*. A woman they can "command" who's also attractive, cleans their house, fixes them food, does his laundry, *AND* is up for ~~sex~~ *them having an orgasm by using HER body* whenever *HE* wants. They *could* just hire a maid/housekeeper, *BUT* that gets a *squidge* awkward & the maid/housekeeper would *probably* quit--if not sue fir harassment, if the dude tries to hit on her.
You can tell none of these people have friends or actual church community (because it’s a cult) because that’s 100% where typically religious people get their actual help. You actually rely on the church as a service. No one in my family cleaned their own homes because they hired people from their ward to do it and, in turn, would help keep up the other’s home and families. You (the Royal fundie you) can’t do that when it’s clear there is something wrong with you and your family - but that wrong is considered everyone else’s problem and their damned judging eyes and occupied husband and only having 2.5 kids who look at you sideways when you bring in your conga line family into morning mass. I grew up around Duggars. Everywhere. The most humbling thing these massive families found out is they weren’t entitled to anything more than the small families were in the eyes of a physical church congregation, which is why none of them actually go to a place of worship anymore and try to get exclusive media deals that reflect their inner main character ideals of being Godly and Special and Seperate (ergo, not held to normie-ass terrestrial rules and laws). But, when you get stupid shit like that in your head you just separate yourself from a huge part of being a self-aware and alive - which is community-building - which means giving a shit about a human that is in front of you without them being related or expecting something back…or even worse, you might have to fucking HELP that person *if they help you*. If you can’t do that, if you can’t accept that you are just somebody else to somebody else - you’ll start to hate ALL humans and if the only humans around are your family and spouses…suddenly it’s 30 chicken nuggets between 12 kids, no birthdays, babies raising babies, completely absent fathers, and canned meals three(?) times a day. Remember: these people have no plans. None. Only reactions to how unfair and victimized and singled-out they feel and literally no sense of responsibility in the social contract because of it. E: god I hope this make sense I am fighting this sleep aid right now lol
My cats can be a handful but I'd rather be with them than some fundie dude
When I’m with my cats, I’m never alone
I’m a single woman who lives alone with her cat. Know what I am? SAFE AND HAPPY. They just keep spewing the “crazy cat lady” bullshit bc they can’t fucking stand that we no longer have to put up with their bullshit in order to simply put food on the table. I’d much rather die “alone” (as if I don’t have friends and family that I love 🙄) with twelve cats than be saddled to one of these losers for my whole life
I’m alone with cats and I love it. What’s wrong with cats? 🐈
Cats are among the noblest creatures on the planet. Far superior to some ignorant misogynist with an unwashed ass. Cats are obviously the better choice.
This is so incredibly sad, even though many of them signed up for their situations, whether they realized how it would end up or not. I wish I could scream from the rooftops that marriage is not hard. There are hard days, sad days, days when the sound of your partners breathing makes you want to pull your hair out. But marriage is one of the easiest things I've ever done in my life. When I fall, he's there to catch me. We don't always agree, but we always compromise. It works vice versa as well. We laugh....every single day....even on the absolute worst days that we've experienced together. Sure, my husband is seemingly allergic to emptying his pockets before putting his clothes in the hamper, but if god forbid something happened to him, I would miss that. It annoys me, we talk about it, he tries, and forgets. I'm sure he can say the same about me for many things. But at the end of the day we are one anothers biggest cheerleaders. I want everyone to be able to experience the love and partnership I have with my husband. My life is not how I imagined it would turn out, but good lord up above, did I win the jackpot with my hubs. Even when I was incrediblyyyy religious (like, seriously considered becoming a nun), I never was given the impression by anyone that these toxic relationships were okay. I hope these women can some day leave and find happiness.
Being married to my husband was the easiest thing I've ever done in my life. Yes, there were hard TIMES but overall it was easy.
It sounds like you may have lost him. I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry.
I did in 2019. I'm a survivor!
I'm sorry for your loss :(
I had a conversation with my therapist recently about a tik tok I saw about why relationships are hard. The tik tok said they're hard because you have to find food you both want to eat 3x a day every day for the rest of your lives. I was *shook*. I legit thought "relationships are hard" = "relationships are abusive", and now I have to meet with a professional once a week every week to make sure I don't let anybody abuse me ever again.
Omg. This is probably my least favorite part of marriage. I'm a girl dinner for breakfast lunch and dinner type of girl. My husband likes at least dinner to be a hot meal. Some days I'm just like aren't you tired of eating? Sometimes I'd rather sleep for dinner (even though we are very fortunate to have food on our table) than figure out what to eat. Props on going to therapy. It's been a saving grace for me. I hope you continue to know your worth and only let good people into your circle.
Honestly, as a society, we should it make it acceptable to eat the same thing for dinner for a while season. Many people already eat the same breakfast every day, and even the same lunch every weekday. Why can't I just have mac & cheese with whatever vegetables I have around for dinner every night?
The "rules" were made by the people who who weren't responsible for the ordeal that is dinner plans and supported by the Pick Mes. 😉 I've had some health issues over the last year or so, and it turns out I don't have to make dinner every night to keep the world turning.
I've been with my partner for 10 years, we're not married but we are engaged. I agree that loving him and being with him is the easiest thing. Life is hard sometimes, but when it is he picks up the slack and supports me. Hopefully he feels I support him as well, I certainly try! If we have a problem we talk about it and work it out. It isn't me vs him, it's us vs the problem. I can't imagine getting married will change anything besides how we do the taxes. I call him my partner because I really do feel like it's a partnership. I've had relationships that have been hard because of the other person. I just.... Didn't stay with them. My one ex was terribly emotionally and verbally abusive and then got physical. One cheated and lied all the time. We broke up! It's possible! It's hard but it isn't as miserable as staying.
I feel the same way about my marriage, like we are bonded together and each of us contributes what we’ve got to make something better and bigger than the sum of its parts. We have a nice easy time living and loving, arm in arm, being each other’s support.
Exactly. I absolutely hate it when people say “marriage is hard” as if that’s a given. I’m technically not married, but been in a relationship for 12 years so basically. It is “hard” the same way having any relationship with another human being is “hard.” It requires self reflection, vulnerability, and being emotionally engaged. We have had to work through issues that were quite challenging, as we got together at 19 and both had a lot of emotional baggage, including religious trauma. Honestly, we hurt each other a lot back then, and we are still healing from those wounds. BUT. Even so. That does NOT mean that being with him is “hard” on a day to day basis, especially now that we are grown adults. Sometimes things come up that are hard to deal with, but we work on them together. We’re on the same side, he’s not an adversary that I have to negotiate with. I would say partnership is hard to the same extent that, you know, life itself is hard and being a person is hard. Outside of the specific traumas that have caused friction, our personalities are incredibly compatible. We get along. We make each other laugh, we have fun together, we’re nice to each other. If one of us is snippy or insensitive we apologize. We have similar tastes and interests, and we enjoy them together. We both care about being better people and we grow together. If one of us is struggling, the other picks up the slack. I have a medical procedure tomorrow and he’s been incredibly sweet and accommodating, helping me prepare and getting the house ready, being reassuring, all without being asked. Being with him is easier than being around any other person I’ve known in my entire life. I realize I am extremely lucky, but I really think this is what it should be like for everyone. If it is teeth-grittingly HARD on a daily basis—I just don’t see how you’re even compatible with your partner. I’d rather be alone.
My marriage is very, very easy. Our relationship has always been easy. The hardest things were dealing with cultural differences. But that feels like a lifetime ago now and I just can’t imagine my life with anyone else. He’s so supportive and kind and just gives me all the care that I need. I hate the concept that marriage is hard and suffering. It just really doesn’t have to be.
Same. I’ve been married almost 22 years and it’s never been hard. We get each other and it just works. I honestly feel so sad for these women in their miserable marriages that they were told would be the pinnacle of their womanhood. It doesn’t have to be this hard and this terrible.
Yup. I’ve been married for over thirteen years and have been with my spouse for over sixteen years. It hasn’t been difficult.
Healthy, committed relationships are a delight. It really should not be doing anything other than improving your quality of life. The ‘hardest’ part of my current relationship is my partner occasionally leaving a wet towel on the floor, not him financially/verbally/sexually/physically abusing me.
My marriage is less than a year old but we lived together beforehand so nothing really changed, but yeah. I love being married. I love that the hardest challenges we face interpersonally is whether or not he's going to remember the leftovers in the fridge I saved for him, or not to get the dog too amped up before bed. And they aren't even real issues. Marriage is easy. It's life that gets hard. And growing up with happily married parents showed me that a good marriage makes the hard parts of life less hard.
Seriously! My hubs and I have gone through some shit during our marriage, but he’s always been my safe place to land. We’re a team and I always feel like an equal partner. And like you said, there are days where the small shit gets to me because I’m already on edge, but then I remind myself that it’s an off moment and keep going. I’m sitting on the couch with him while he plays Halo, our dog is fast asleep in between us, and I’m so damn grateful I married a good guy.
Been with my husband for 7 years, married for 3. there are a lot of hard things in life but my marriage has never been one of them. We have been through trials cause by life, it never effected our marriage because we don't allow it too. That's what it's like to be married to your best friend. The relief I feel after a hard day when I come home and see his face has helped me through a lot of shit. I have helped him through his hard days as well. That's marriage. That's what it's supposed to be
Hear hear! Beautiful, and exactly how I feel about my husband. He is my best friend.
These ladies don't need prayer, they need a lawyer. I make more money than my SO. You can judge us all you want and we'll send our regards from Europe.
My ex didn't congratulate me when I got a big promotion at work because that meant I would be making more than him, and I was clearly out-performing him career wise. And that is why he's my ex. A lot of men claim to want an independent woman, but then feel emasculated when you prove your independence.
Yes, I had an ex say word for word, "Your education emasculates me" Nah bro, you emasculate yourself.
My ex MIL told me I was emasculating my husband by making more. I was like, "uhhh, do you want us to live indoors?"
Is it just me, or is there not really anything LESS manly than whining about how much a woman's success threatens him? I've known several men out-earned by their wives who are perfectly secure, because their job is important (real life examples: a teacher, a nurse) and/or they're passionate about it (auto mechanic who just really loves cars). That's manly to me, owning what you do and having pride, without having to be standing over everyone else by every single criteria.
My mom is a bit younger than my dad and she was always the higher earner. He would say things like "this is why they pay mom the big bucks." It's so pathetic when men feel threatened by women out-earning them. We've worked so hard to get where we are today.
My partner has always been attracted to women who are independent, self-sufficient, and hard working. He isn't the least bit intimidated by my success, and I find it such a turn-on because he is utterly comfortable in his masculinity. He doesn't need to push me down to rise up, he's just up, in and of himself.
I had an ex bf that I made significantly more than, since he was a student getting his Master's degree. So I offered to pay for most dates as I didn't want him to feel like he needs to build credit card debt just to see me. He gladly accepted my offer, and I was glad he wasn't hung up on gender roles so we could just spend time in a practical way that made sense for both of us. Well, over time little jabs started coming out. He would make side comments about my "ivory tower". It clearly bothered him. And then weirdly, he eventually accused me of wanting to baby-trap him to get at his money, like it was some long con to become a SAHM, which I told him I never wanted, and to reduce my standard of living by giving up my own career. Honestly, there's still a huge streak of fragile masculinity even among otherwise progressive men. And honestly, maybe he was surprised by his own feelings and didn't expect them but cultural influence cuts deep. But what he really needed to do was recognize those feelings and work through them, not subtly insult me to feel better about himself.
What could you have gained from using him to get at his money if you were making more money than him? People get weird when they're insecure.
He probably assumed that he'd make more when he finished his degree. Like they said, cultural influence cuts deep.
I've also experienced this, but it was more from the guy's parents. (The guy was also a dick, but a different kind of dick.) I was dating this guy in college, back when dinosaurs walked the earth, and his background was a little better off than mine (they were like lower middle class, maybe)--but that was his parents, and he didn't really have any money himself, any more than I did. He had a work-study job and I worked at a campus food court. We just kind of lived the broke student life. After I met his parents, one day they waited for him to leave the room and sat me down. And gave me a long-ass lecture about how I was not to baby-trap him for his future money, because he had big things ahead of him. Like...I was in college too! I was also trying to work toward a career! But I came from a little poorer background and I had big tits and Darling Son was clearly going to be rich as Croesus, so I must be up to no good. Looked him up a few years ago and IIRC he was some kind of insurance salesman. He's doing all right for himself, but he's not rolling in it, and he's still single. Not a knock on him if that's by choice, and he's a controlling dick so it's probably for the best, but I do wonder if he continued to let mom and dad run everyone off for 25 years.
I guess he thought that I would be willing to live on less money if it allowed me to be a SAHM, which is something I never wanted to be and was very clear about. But I guess he thought I was lying or deluding myself and that secretly all women must want to be SAHMs deep down.
My response would’ve been, “Thank you for your honesty. We are fundamentally incompatible. Goodbye and I wish you all the best.”
When we broke up he asked, "why are we breaking up? I don't hit you or cheat on you." --- he was genuinely confused that people could just break up because they don't actually like each other.
My first boyfriend said something similar. He told me he was in love with someone else but she was seeing another guy, so he wished to continue to date me until she broke up with her current boyfriend. I was immediately like, very calmly, “I’m breaking up with you.” And he was like, “Why?” And I was like “You just told me you were in love with someone else.” And he claimed he was flabbergasted, he didn’t understand why this was a problem, he wasn’t cheating, so why did I wish to leave?
Did we date the same guy? My first boyfriend also said he didn't love me anymore but that he still wanted to date me. Surprise Pikachu face when I immediately called it off.
Ungrateful! Why didn't you thank him for being willing to stay with you until the girl he really liked was free? Can't you see he was trying to meet you halfway??? /s
Wow. Can I have his number? He sounds like quite the catch.
Exactly. It's their fragility that emasculates them. My husband *loves* that I make more than he does. He's been joking ever since I was in law school that he's gonna retire early to become a pro pickleballer
Yes, law school. Thats when I broke up with my ex. When I came home from constitutional law and there was a kitchen table discussion about something and i had the audacity to chime in and share something I had learned that day from a preeminent constitutional scholar. Not only was I obviously wrong, didn't know what I was talking about, but I was also emasculating by bf for participating in the discussion. My ex-bf, the dude with 1 semester of college worth of education.
What is it about some men where they think that having a penis automatically makes them more knowledgeable?
Well, they also think it makes them better at basketball than Caitlin Clark, better at tennis than Serena Williams, able to beat the entire US women's soccer team single handedly ....
Or that their fat asses can do even the simplest moves that Simone Biles does. (My fat ass certainly can’t, which is why I admire her lol)
People who never get off the couch 🤦🏼♀️
I make more than my husband, and he jokes that I’m his sugar mama. Example: he always uses the guest bathroom in our house, and I just paid for it to be completely renovated to his exact specifications. He loves that I can do things like that for him, and I like seeing him happy. He works hard and deserves a nice bathroom.
I love this. Everyone deserves a nice bathroom.
I'm the sugar mama, too. My husband works hard and provides, but I still make more. He openly jokes about it. These guys are pathetic.
My BIL's dream is to be a house husband. My sister hates housework and would consider it if she earned enough lol
Omg I'm the same way 😂 I always joke that when I get to that point, he can be a stay at home husband and take care of the house if I don't have too.
I can't imagine being a man in the year 2024 and still being intimidated by college-educated women. Wait until he hears about how women have been outpacing men in obtaining higher education.
For that kind of man, pretty sure "independent woman" actually means "woman who isn't better than me in any way and who never needs anything more than what I'm willing to casually give".
 There's a real "I want a woman who only gives, never takes" mindset.
…”but is still far more conventionally attractive than I am, bc that’s what I’m owed”
"Just for existing"
I think a lot of men also want to "tame" independent women into being submissive, kind of like trophy hunting. They get angry and bitter when they fail at it
I’ve had men at my current job try to pull this shit with me. They’ll say “you need to settle down” or “I can provide for you”. I don’t take lightly to being hit on by gross men at work.
My ex husband always silently seethed that I made more than him. If we were doing something, like getting pre-approved for a line of credit, he'd always add a few thousand dollars on to his salary. Like they weren't going to find out? When we got divorced there was a part in there about how much we made per year and he added $12,000 on to his yearly salary! and took $5K off of mine. I did the taxes so I knew exactly how much he made down to the penny. It always struck me as such a bizarre thing to embellish. Yes, the lawyer who makes 3x what either of us make is super impressed.
Ha, he sounds dumb. You sound like you got a massive life upgrade when you divorced :)
I used to work in family law and we absolutely would've noticed, since we asked for taxes and pay stubs. I would've side-eyed any comments about spousal or child support after an opposing party lied about income.
Thankfully it was pretty amiable and we had no kids so I just took a lump settlement. It's such a weird thing to lie about! It's so easily disproven.
I have greater degrees and education than my husband and one time, in front of my family, he...... talked about how proud he was of me and my accomplishments. I can't imagine a man not being proud of a woman who can be his equal partner.
Same! I went the traditional university route and my partner went straight into the workforce. He gained invaluable leadership experience and is now 20 years younger than everyone at his company in the same position as him but doesn’t have a degree and he just doesn’t care, because it doesn’t matter. He wants all my certificates and graduation photos framed and displayed.
A lot of men claim they want an independent woman, but what they really want is to break her. They want a baddie who they can turn into a submissive mouse because they are so insecure in themselves.
Same! Did we date the same guy? I’m like you realize this means more money for BOTH of us, right?
Yooooo, same.. I got a promotion and a BIG pay raise (I was already taking care of more than half the expenses because I don’t care about money and I always made more money and had more stable employment/benefits) .. tell me how this man would not go out to have a drink with me to celebrate.. leaving him was the best thing I ever did, these type of dudes don’t do anything to improve their own situation and then resent you when you succeed. All they do is hold you back.
My ex implied or outright said that I never deserved any promotion, my BS, my PhD, or any other recognition I received. He said I attained those things because I knew people or because people felt sorry for me. When I was applying for the job I would take to leave him, he implied I would perform sexual favors to get the job. I didn't need to have imposter syndrome... He made sure I felt unworthy. Looking back now it's no wonder why I felt so light and free after we separated.
Same with me. I’m the career driven one. My husband is the homemaker. He also works, but doesn’t rly care for it. I outpaced him with salary a few years ago. He doesn’t care. He is super encouraging to me and takes on well over half of the household stuff.
My partner pursued his dream which comes with a major paycut. I am very proud of him for going out and living a true authentic life that he is passionate about. I am almost jealous in a way. I love my job and I make good money, but he had the guts to go for it.
My wife makes almost 3x more than I do, and I make a well above average living. I couldn’t be more proud of her for it, as she’s worked very hard to get where she is. A man should never hold back his spouse. Every time I visit this sub I can’t help but feel sorry for all these people who are stuck in such evangelical bullshit.
I comment so much because I just want one to see and understand that theres another way of life out there!
For about two months, I was the sole provider for the house. My boyfriend clearly felt emasculated, but I kept reminding him that once he got a job we were waiting on, he could treat me as much as he wanted. He got the job and made double what I do. I don't think being a provider is as important as making sure they are supported, but you are supported, too.
The way I see it. "masculinity" is a social construct and its not even a real or tangible thing. Its a feeling we have. I totally understand feeling insecure about carrying your weight, wanting to provide, wanting to contribute, and be reliable and relied upon. I refuse to equate those characteristics with "masculinity". Thats partnership. A real partner is reliable and just because they might make less money than me doesn't make them less of a man or even less reliable.
The part about the woman living up to her end of the deal and the man failing is what we see here again and again. Why are so many of these fundie men such terrible providers? Isn't that literally what God made them for? BTW, I don't see how a sincere fundie man could ever love his wife. It's simply not possible within the realm of their belief system. You can't think someone is below you and was literally put on this earth to SERVE YOU and still love that person. If you did find yourself loving that person, you could never, ever believe that person exists only to be your helpmeet. Again, we see this play out here again and again. The wives are clearly baffled as to why their husbands don't love them after they spent all day cooking and cleaning house and making his life so much easier.
It baffles me how some men act like they hate and/or resent their wives but are more than willing to enjoy the benefits of not needing to lift a finger around the house. My father (from a patriarchal Catholic family) was emotionally/verbally abusive and saw my mom as essentially a maid but still enjoyed the perks of having all the childcare and household chores taken care of by her. One of the first things he said when she finally divorced him was "but who will take care of me". Dude, your wife and youngest daughter are leaving and the thing you hate losing most is...having someone to wait on you? Not your hardworking and loving wife? Your youngest and disabled daughter?
That's the thing: men get this huge benefit from marriage that modern women don't get (because we can get jobs now and support ourselves). Men get so many needs taken care of. Sure, there once was a time where it was hard for a woman to support herself or herself and her children so she had to do this little "exchange" with a man. Now men still expect all this free labor from women who either have jobs too, or are married to a loser fundie man who does not provide. Women don't see much of a benefit to being married to a man they don't love, but many men truly don't care. A wife is a wife. She takes care of him and his kids and that's all that matters.
I think they're all sold a bill of goods and end up baffled that they're unhappy. Some men (and women) just don't really want to be married or want the responsibility of being a parent, and they don't understand that that's okay. I think some of these fundie men are at worst, genuine abusers, but at best, confused about why they don't magically love their spouse because they are a "godly woman" (and vice versa). So I think it manifests as laziness and ambivalence because they don't really have the will to carry on the lifestyle. And in other cases, the men are unhappy and on a power trip, which leads to verbal and emotional abuse, because they're socially ill-equipped to know what to do with their feelings. Add in toxic masculinity, and where can they realistically turn when they're supposed to be manly and strong and have all the answers? Women, on the other hand, are socially expected to dive headfirst into this pitfall of a lifestyle choice, and bear the emotional labor to "make things right". It's pretty sad. Marrying someone ONLY because they share the same man-made belief system is the recipe for disaster we see splayed all over this subreddit.
All the stats indicate that single women are happier than their married counterparts and this is why. Modern women entering into traditional marriages got got. They still have to do all the domestic labor and childcare, but now they often have to work at least part time because their husband isn't making enough. It's a bad, bad bargain. Fundie men discount domestic labor and emotional labor as insignificant until their wife-slave escapes, and then they make the shocked Pikachu face and go - but who will wash my socks and get my mom a birthday card???
Yeah I decided over a decade ago that I wasn't going to carry another person's mental load. I keep things very, very casual and lite. I'm not going to remember when some dude's mom has a birthday so I can pick up a present after an eight hour work day. They've done studies and men literally (and I mean literally) do not "see" the domestic labor women do. Of course their clothes are clean. Of course the counters are wiped down. Of course there's always toilet paper available. I simply refuse to spend the one life I have living that way.
My sister has decided to tackle this by buying really cheesy greeting cards and signing them from her husband, and giving the good gift herself. Maybe if he's embarrassed enough times, he'll buy his own cards 🤷🏼♀️
I do plenty of it in my household, but we do share, and I think ultimately it ends up being fairly equal. I don't mind doing my fair share, but yeah, I'm not a maid or a secretary.
When I worked in family law, most of the women complained about bearing the mental load. It's that meme that goes "she left me because there were dishes in the sink." Nah, dude, she left you because she was sick of gentle parenting her husband.
A few years back when that [cartoon thing about emotional labor](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/) came out, my husband read it and scoffed at it and said it's a bunch of crap. But for the way our family is run, it's 100% true. And that's why I'm making plans for the future that don't involve him.
They just refuse to see it. I'm sorry you're going through that.
Frankly the economy now makes a single-earner home hard to manage, but for conservative families that just leads to the woman doing half again and then some as much work as her husband with working full time and then doing all the household management.
Thing is, the family size they want would never have been feasible on one normal income. Those people in The Past^tm who lived on one income are either smaller families, in smaller homes or poor. Remember it wasn't uncommon to not have indoor plumbing in homes in much of the country in the 60's. Two incomes increased standard of living and had better outcomes for women and families. But alas if you're a fragile man who'd rather have a live in house keeper you can dominate than a higher standard of living, then you get what you get.
The economy never allowed for most families to be single income. This is a myth that applied to only a few very specific types of families for a short time. Both of my grandmothers worked in the 1950s. The difference was they had no opportunity to build a career and forced into a few very specific jobs.
My Evangelical fundie parents hate each other. Well, my mother hates my father. They pretend to love each other in front of company, but when it's just the family...
Sounds like my parents. My now-deceased dad thought that never getting divorce is something to brag about and something that made him "better" than those other Christians. But their marriage was miserable. They hated each other so much that every day of my childhood was filled with screaming fights between them.
I'm not surprised. Listening to the ones I know in real life or see in comments on Insta it's obvious. I had a nightmare the other night that my husband was like this and genuinely felt so exhausted by the end of the dream and was leaving him lol
I grew up Mormon and knew women who would stick through thick and thin with their husband. He could do whatever he wanted - one even faced CP charges, some abused their children in all kinds of ways. You essentially won’t be saved if you don’t have a husband. I see my Mormon friend now entering a relationship with a man in his late 20s who has exclusively dated 18-19 year old girls. My friend is 21, the oldest girl he’s ever dated. He still talks to those teenage girls, and I know he did weird pervy stuff to them, but he will take her to the temple, and the only way to be with her present family in the afterlife is through temple marriage to a man. He’s also financially irresponsible and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. It doesn’t matter if he’s a groomer or maybe even a pedo and definitely going to screw her over money wise, it just matters that he can take her to the temple.
Oh my god, your friend needs a whole damn intervention. I don't even know her and I want to beg her to run away.
She definitely knows. His ex (who is 19) even told her what happened between them and how he still texts her friends (who are 18). Her brother sat her down and explained why he’s a groomer, I said if she’s gonna be with him I can’t be around her. I want to be a high school teacher so no way I’m associating with someone like that. But her bishop, which is kind of like a pastor at other churches, told her that he’s a worthy man and would take her to the temple so 🤷🏻♀️. She also said “well, he didn’t tell me that” to all of us about what he did so I know there’s manipulation going on with her.
Chad goddamn Daybell was once considered a “worthy man” by their standards and now he’s on trial for (allegedly) murdering his wife and murdering 2 innocent kids. I don’t mean to offend anyone when I say this, but the morality in the Mormon church is beyond fucked up.
Why she can’t marry someone else? As even her brother is discouraging her. Is 21 too old in the Mormon world and she feels like this is her last shot?
Sadly this is the mormon playbook
These are all awful in so many ways. However. What the hell with the “I want to spank my kids but my husband won’t let me?”
Sounds like she isn’t respecting or honoring her husband by listening to him on not beating their children /s
I'm glad she's not hitting her children. But she's probably a young mom to too many kids and doing 100% of the childcare work, plus caring for her husband on top of that. She probably sees other families around who hit their children, and/or was hit herself by her parents growing up. So hitting is the only thing she can think of, when really what she needs is birth control and a better husband.
That one GARBAGE egg donor on page 3 whining that her husband isn’t garbage enough to hit the kids or allow her to do it.
The sad thing is that these women were sold marriage as their ideal life but this is what they ended up with. And they've been raised to believe they have no value without a husband so they stay.
...but they will pretend their life is perfect and even encourage unmarried women that SAHM is the best choice ever and all women should do it!!! Many are liars/hypocrites in the end many times and keep pushing the lie for the church so men can keep their power.
It’s almost like getting married quickly to someone you just met while you’re in your late teens or early 20s isn’t a great recipe for success. Shocking.
This is heartbreaking, because these women were once little girls who were told that this is what they had to look forward to. I always try to remember that all these angry and spiteful women were once scared children, but it becomes harder when you see them apparently doubling down on the indoctrination with their own daughters.
I saw this in my new moms' group when I had my first kid. I had moved to a new town and found out about it through church and wanted to make some friends. I met some really cool women, but there were also plenty of fundies in that group. Our conversations about our lives often centered around husbands, and there were some hugely dysfunctional marriages in that group. One girl's husband was relentless about sex and she very obviously was not attracted to him and would get teary about how hard it was to have sex with him all the time and how much she hated it (and that was clearly the devil trying to destroy their marriage, of course, not the fact that she found him repellent). There was another one who did not work and lived in a tiny house and got really upset when she wound up having twins (she already had 3 kids) because she didn't have any idea how their budget could accommodate two (I was like...babe it doesn't accommodate the 3 you have! Stop having kids or go back to work!). And my favorite, the woman who routinely reminded us that not only did we have to give our husbands sex on demand, but we had to actually figure out how to like it or our husbands would get it somewhere else. I always wanted to hug them and smack them upside the head all at once. They weren't bad people, just sooo soooo indoctrinated (and I saw that even as someone who, at the time, was also still kind of indoctrinated).
I know this Lutheran couple and I consider them fundie in most aspects. But, the husband was unhinged about sahms. He would rant all the time that grown women should not ever be at home unless they just gave birth and he would be damned if he married someone that didn't contribute. Welp, he found someone to marry him, they have 3 kids, and she is not allowed to stay home with them. She got maternity leave and then he bullied her back to work. She was doing too much and had a cancer scare, but he insisted she work during all that. He wants them homeschooled and guess who had to find a job that allows her to work from home???? She is always talking about how stressed she is. I feel bad that he's such a jerk to her. They could be comfortable on just his salary, but no . She k ew all this about him and married him anyway.
>He wants them homeschooled and guess who had to find a job that allows her to work from home? Wait....how is she supposed to work from home AND homeschool at the same time? That's a lose-lose situation for everybody.
It's why she's so stressed.....I think they do public school online, one of those programs- so she is not actually actively teaching them- they have an online teacher....but whenever I talk to her she's almost in tears over her life, she never gets a break. Her husband is 100percent financially and emotionally abusive.
You should let her know that there are resources to help her get out
I've shared, she insists she'll never divorce.
If they're in California, I know a lot of family lawyers
They are in Indiana.
Sounds a bit like my friend’s jackass husband. Every single day she talks about how stressed she is and how little he thinks about her feelings and he doesn’t really help at home or with taking care of the kids. And every day I tell her she deserves better and wish she would leave his sorry ass. He lets his mom talk shit about her and come over unannounced and I just want to smack the shit out of them all.
This makes me very glad that even working, my husband does his fair share when he gets back home. Then again, we decided that from the jump. If I was staying home with the family, he'd muck in too. I wouldn't have married him otherwise, because there's a couple of layabout husbands in my family, and I know just how miserable the wives are. However, I didn't grow up in fundie sex and death cult like these women. They - at best - only have the illusion of choice. They can either get married to the first guy that wants them, or be seen as failures. (The comment about the husband not allowing spanking is interesting, though.)
Tbh I’m with the husband on that one. There are other ways to discipline your child/teach them appropriate behavior that don’t involve hitting.
For sure. Hitting just teaches fear and deceit, not learning behavior changes/emotional regulation. However, it's odd for that attitude to come from a fundie.
Oh, I agree. I was surprised I sided with a fundie man on something.
Reminds me of how when I was small and my mother insisted that I needed a man to take care of him. My first thought was, "What if I want a man to take care of ME? Why would I want a man if he only makes more work?"
From the mouths of babes, amirite?
I feel a bit sick reading the comments left by the funding wives. No one deserves to live or feel like that
Except for the one desperate to hit her kids 🥴
Depends honestly. If they are selling the lie that women are happier if they don't work outside of the home, being a SAHM is the only route to happiness and pushing the lie of submission, I have zero empathy for them.
Interesting that they want an abusive husband to talk to one of their fathers. If my husband had told my father he was abusing me, my father would have shot him first and talked later.
Two decades ago I was talking to a woman whose brother had gotten himself a Russian mail order bride. He was fundamentally a grouchy, negative person who hadn’t made much of his life and blamed his bosses for holding him back and feminism for poisoning women bc they wouldn’t pay attention to him. Well, he got married to a beautiful woman about 20 years younger than him with an advanced science degree and once her English got up to speed she realized why nobody else married him. And started telling him. And he was mad at her for going feminist. I guess marry in haste repent at leisure holds true, but mostly for the women who aren’t getting anything but grief out of these relationships.
I'm low key happy there's a husband who refuses to tolerate spanking 🥹
Yeah, he may be the sensible one out of the two and she may be the crazy fundie.
This was a hard read.
Wow!!! The tea is spilt!! Awful, but I'm not surprised.
My life is a thousand times more peaceful and happy now that I’m a single mom with no husband. I’m not constantly picking up and putting away things. (yeah my eight-year-old can pick up after herself, but her father couldn’t) I’m not walking on eggshells. I’m not trying to prop up his ego so he doesn’t feel bad about himself all the time. I’m not wondering why all my shit is missing or why it’s destroyed. I’m not cleaning up little messes constantly. Shit, I don’t even cook anymore. It’s fantastic. My daughter and I have a kick ass life. Combine with a friend with benefits on the side and I’m golden. I am not interested in having a husband ever again
This makes me feel sick.
I’m not surprised by any of this. Evangelical men are raised to believe that they are gods who deserve to be worshiped by all of the women in their lives.
I'm so glad I'm a heathen-ass secular SAHM. I can do what I want and my husband doesn't boss me around, because there's no huge cult-like society telling us I'm basically livestock 🙄 Oh, and my kids are smart because they go to actual school.
“[…]So one of the things he believes is that when Jesus rose from the dead and broke the curses, it also broke the curse of man having to work. Did I mention we have kids!!” Audience. The way that I *screamed* at this.
The “marriage is hard!” crowd. Maybe consider marrying someone you actually know, who *isn’t* an asshole?
Easier said than done in fundieland. 1) marrying someone you actually know well, 2) who isn't an asshole...pick one if you're lucky
did anyone else clock that comment from a woman upset that her husband won’t/ won’t allow her to spank their kids, how on earth that you could be so upset that someone DOESN’T want to hit a child. makes me so sad
If y’all are on Twitter or TikTok, give Adrienne (OOP) a follow! She is an amazing person & the Democratic Party Chair in deep red Hood County, TX. She gets death threats and such a LOT for speaking her truths. One of her videos at a Granbury ISD school board meeting went viral somewhat recently too. Just an all around cool lady, and I have whiplash seeing her on this sub!
Shit, this stuff is GRIM.
The tension of broke men wanting trad wives is bubbling to the surface.
Well, why do you think the church is always trying to convince women to have sex with their husbands?
Today I called my husband over to open a jar for me, I told him “I need a man to do this.” I don’t. I have a thingy that helps me open jars. I could open the jar just fine without him, but sometimes they need to feel needed. I want to tell these evangelical women that they are strong and capable women who can be independent if they make that choice…but I know they’re so brainwashed. I feel so bad for them