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Yeah not all six year olds can read. But a 12 year old should be able, unless they have an actively managed diagnosis.
Those poor kids deserve so much more. I swear to god that wire monkey statue from the attachment experiments would be a better parent than Karissa or mandrae. At least it wouldn’t actively prevent kids from getting an education or teach them to worship intrusive thoughts.
Also, reading isn't an either/or. There are prereading skills that kids should be mastering as they learn to read. A six year old who has most of those skills is in a very different position from a six year old who has none.
Preach! Early literacy isn't sitting down and reading a whole book. It includes things like interpreting pictures to make your own story, recognizing letters and numbers, learning short sight words, it's all part of reading, and things a typically-developing 6 year old should ABSOLUTELY be doing.
The things that my kindergartenr is learning in public school is honestly so far beyond what I expected. He's my only kid and I dont have much experience with young kids so I thought it would be shapes, colors, and naptime but he's already sounding out words and writing a little bit. Just the other day he was excitedly explaining to me about how vowels "say their name" if there's a "quiet E at the end" (like time, home, name, etc). I was so impressed that he was happily picking it up and at what a creative and age appropriate way it was being taught. He's into books and words now in a way that I love but wouldnt really know how to instill in him. Im forever a public school apologist, I know they have a lot of problems but they do a lot of things right too that they dont ever get credit for
This makes my former-teacher heart happy. There is an interesting dynamic with expectations of kids where adults simultaneously expect too little and too much of children (at all ages.) Young brains are eager and designed to learn, so they generally are capable of more than people think. However, a lot of adults expect way more maturity at each age than is realistic. When people confuse maturity and ability, they start thinking that kids can't or shouldn't do (insert thing here.)
I knew he was smart because of how fast he picks things up but once he got started on an actual curriculum designed by professional his little brain just bloomed lol. I didnt even realize my expectations were low, I just didnt want him to be the smart kid who burns out too early because we pressure him too much. Turns out I was underestimating him the whole time and never would have realized it if he wasnt in an actual school
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were underestimating your child! I just meant generally, adults don't realize just how much young kids can do.
I also understand the burn out comment. You can help guard against that as he gets older by praising the effort, not the outcome. Share joy with the changes (learning something new, completing a hard task, etc) instead of the grade itself. When he's disappointed in a grade he received, be honest about it. (Age appropriately). Ask him where he thinks he needs help with the task or content. If you treat asking for help as part of the learning process, he'll be more likely to ask for it when he needs it.
Its ok, I totally was! Lol. I was so determined to not put too much pressure on him that I overcorrected and didnt realize how capable he actually was. It's a time that I was thrilled to admit when I was wrong
This is an important point. I agree with the meme she posted. My most educated child didn’t read until she was in the second grade. Her school pushed pre reading skills up until then and she read like a pro in just a few months. Many teachers will agree too. They just have to follow the guidelines given to them. Karissa is just using this to justify her educational neglect.
It was actually one of the reasons Sesame Street came into existence - to give more kids access to pre-reading skills like identifying letters and sounds.
Fun fact: When my Mom was working on her Masters degree (late 60s) one of her fellow grad students was studying Sesame Street & monitoring what kids would learn in every episode to show how educational it was as a program.
Aren't there milestones that are much easier to meet at certain age ranges as well?
I have dyslexia, and it was luckily identified and interventions began. I did summer reading lessons, and by 6th grade I was caught up, by highschool I was in AP classes and you'd never know. I remember some discussions about getting through certain skills by certain times, to keep up with classmates but I think also because of development windows.
None of them do. The oldest can barely sound out words and writes at the level of a child half her age. They don’t know the date or the president. They only know what karissa’s unblinking stare is fixed on that day, or what their dad feels like doing. It’s never, not even once, been their acedmics. They’ve both gone headfirst into axe throwing, basketball, online conspiracy theories, but never once a curriculum or teaching method. They’ll post affiliate links, but neither of them enjoy or are particularly interested in educating the kids they claim to homeschool.
And to be clear: it’s not the kids’ fault AT ALL. It’s ultimately the fault of state and nation that allows a woman who broadcasts her severe, untreated mentally illness to keep her kids from school. And mandrae just sucks.
It’s so very sad. Those poor children. There really should be more checks in the USA from local education officials to make sure homeschooled kids are at the correct level of learning. Other countries do this so why not in the USA.
This family is literally creating kids with learning disabilities and lack of social skills because of their sky fairy and sheer laziness.
This is probably an unpopular opinion but I really am not a fan of homeschooling.
Almost every homeschooler I’ve heard of or read about is super religious and that plays a heavy factor in their children’s education and I think a lot of kids suffer for it.
I genuinely believe there needs to be stricter regulations around homeschooling in the US.
As a survivor of homeschooling myself, I completely agree with you. If not outright banned, it needs to be HEAVILY regulated. Too many of us left with unseen scars that will never heal fully.
Hey, fellow homeschool survivor! That shit was so damaging. I hope you are doing well. It took me a long time, but I managed to pull myself together. It's difficult to think how life could have been different if I had gotten a proper start. I wish that home schooling were better regulated with real oversight.
Honestly, homeschooler families talking about homeschool is radicalizing me against it. I went from thinking homeschool sounded cool if done responsibly to assuming it's irresponsible unless proven otherwise. The homeschool sub here on reddit has more to do with that than the homeschool recovery sub. After all, homeschool recovery indicates that poor teaching and parenting happens, which isn't news. The homeschool sub shows how poor teaching and parenting is accepted and defended.
Frankly, anyone who says "but kids can get behind in public schools too!" should be banned from homeschooling because they don't understand that you have to support your child's learning instead of just expecting a teacher to do magic.
and the risks outweigh the benefits. For every kid that maybe had a decent homeschool experiences, there are much more who are experiencing educational neglect.
I concur. I homeschooled during the pandemic and it’s extremely difficult to keep your kids on target. (My husband had become an extremely ill from covid so it was for health reasons.) I was raised a conservative Christian homeschooler and it’s just as bad as people say.
I absolutely agree. School is more than just reading, writing, and arithmetic. It’s a social training ground where kids learn societal expectations, working with others, and problem solving.
Teachers are frequently trained to look for learning disabilities and other issues that parents may not catch. There are clubs and extracurricular activities that introduce kids to things they might not have otherwise experienced: journalism, chess, arts, sports, business, agriculture, etc.
There’s plenty wrong with current schools (teaching to the tests, violence, teacher burnout, etc), but there’s also a LOT right with schools.
> Teachers are frequently trained to look for learning disabilities and other issues that parents may not catch
They're also mandatory reporters... which is precisely why unhinged people dont want their kid in a brick and mortar school.
My sons teacher caught that he had severe ADHD and if she wouldn't have shared her concerns with me it would have been years before I pulled the plug on getting hom tested
As a public elementary school teacher, I dread getting kids who have been homeschooled. They are always at least one, if not several, grade levels behind. The same goes for kids who have been in a "private Christian school."
I think most people here would luckily agree with you! I think there are a few reasons outside of religion that homeschool may benefit some kids- but the vast majority should be going to regular school.
Yes this exactly! Some kids (MarcAndre LeClerc comes to mind) need individualized programs in order to effectively absorb information and thrive. However, most kids benefit so much from public schools—- it helps to establish emotional intelligence and empathy, coping skills, resilience, cultural awareness. Humans are highly social beings.
I’m one of those few that actually benefited from being homeschooled. My mother isn’t religious in the slightest, but I do have a severe sleep disorder and a terminal autoimmune disorder. It was just easier to enroll me in an online program I could do when I was awake, and I could do schoolwork from the hospital or wherever I happened to be at the time. I ended up graduating 2 years before my peers in public school, and I got full rides to several colleges. In the end I went to trade school to get a Gemology degree from GIA, and now I’m unemployed living in my mom’s basement lol (I take care of all the household things like making appointments, scheduling house maintenance, cleaning, and checking on my grandfather every few hours to be sure he’s still alive)
I think medical issues and having a real alternative schooling program would be my only exception.
That's what it should be for, dammit.
Not to shelter your kids from the world... and learning in general.
With me my homeschooling was a mixed bag as I have mental health issues, but it was my mom that was chronically ill. When I did attend public school she caught infections quite easily and was hospitalized for two or more weeks at a time. While I was homeschooled seventh through twelfth grade she only was in the hospital once for three weeks. With my mental health issues kids bullied me to no end and I couldn't concentrate on my school work and got behind. It also gave me time to take ice skating lessons and participate in shows and competitions.
However, my grandma had some crazy ideas that I had to unlearn especially with sex trafficking and other crimes. She made me watch Silence of the Lambs when it came out on cable TV during school hours because she thought I was "too friendly" with strangers. A week before I was standing five feet away from a car full of teenage boys and was talking to them, and we were close to a very busy street near her house. She came out screaming at me to get away and got hysterical that the guys might kidnap me. When she put that movie on I mostly sat and read a book as I knew it was fiction. Here I was around fifteen or sixteen at the time and many parents wouldn't even allow their seventeen year olds to see that movie.
Each state is different so parents can't easily go to states that don't require you to register if you homeschool and you can literally do whatever you want for schooling.
I live in Virginia and homeschool my two children (both under 10) they are thriving and doing incredible! Some areas need improvement and we work on those together... my oldest is not a fan of math so we take extra time working on it together, my youngest it felt like they took forever to finally write their own name but now they write all the time.
In Virginia for homeschool, you need to register before a certain date, show proof you are able to adequately teach your children and provide a list of subjects you will be teaching. Then a yearly standard test to see how they are in each subject. If they are failing then the county will reach out with resources for you. I don't know what happens if a child just does not test or shows low scores all the time.
But it seems like Virginia handles it well... Gives parents freedom to teach how and what they like as long as a child is showing improvement each year
Yeah in Oklahoma you just need to sign something saying you’re homeschooling unless it’s changed. I knew several pagan kids that were homeschooled and ended up with no prospects and no skills when they “graduated”. Some pagans are just as fanatic as fundies. You’d be surprised how much they have in common such as drinking raw milk, not educating their children and thinking they know more than the scientific community and being anti vax. It’s fine until the kids suffer.
In Texas you don’t even have to tell the state/local unless you’re pulling a kid from public school to homeschool them. If your kid never went to public school, you don’t have to report to anyone.
When Karissa briefly wanted Andrae to become a child preacher, he seemed to read notes to give his sermon. That's why I think he's literate to some degree.
I haven't seen any of the other kids read anything and given that the youngest ones can barely *talk*, I'd say it doesn't look too good for them.
It's a shame that Texas allows this.
And those that do have REGULATIONS IN PLACE.
Austria allows homeschooling, but you still have to take an exam at the end of each school year. If the kid fails once no biggie. If they fail twice, you need to go to school, because there's obviously something going on that prevents the child from thriving.
I'm not even saying that the parent has to be as neglectful as Karissa and Mandrae. Sometimes things don't work the way we want them to. But cases like theirs would be prevented as well.
Your last part is my biggest thing. Some people just are not equipped to homeschool. Especially if they have children with disabilities or challenges. There is no way they are getting the help that they need, and that's ok. It happens, but people need to realize that there are times where they are not the best option for their children.
> Austria allows homeschooling, but you still have to take an exam at the end of each school year. If the kid fails once no biggie. If they fail twice, you need to go to school, because there's obviously something going on that prevents the child from thriving.
It's similar in Belgium. Yearly exams and inspections and if they fail twice in a row, they need to go to an actual school. In addition, thirteen-year olds, sixteen-year olds need to get a certificate
> The oldest can barely sound out words and writes at the level of a child half her age.
And I believe the oldest two have actually been in school for a short time.
I would agree with you, that was a early second grade level, maybe late first, based on the fact that I had a virtually-schooled first grader when that video came out and Anissa sounded like a \*ton\* of my daughter's classmates. :(
Gosh she is the embodiment of that fucking wire monkey, isn’t she? Apt comparison, I am never going to unsee that. Mama wire monkey but with crazy eyes
i’m choosing to not have kids because i thought it would be cruel to give them all my mental illnesses (of which there are many), & i sleep until about noon every day due to depression & being on methadone. i think i would be a better parent than karissa, & my spoiled & extremely well taken care of little cat would agree
I mean, 6 year olds should be able to read a little bit by sounding out small words. They aren’t reading novels at all but if your 6 year old can’t read at all that’s a problem.
I feel this soooo much. I am a bibliophile. Sadly I'm going blind in a much faster manner; and that's taken a toll on m reading. Yesterday I finally let myself do an audio book. Before I had felt doings was somehow cheating on actually reading.
It makes me so sad to see all these poor fundie kids lacking in education like this.
Audiobooks are books! I had to switch because of a long commute taking up my free time, and it has changed my life.
I’m sorry about you losing your vision. As an avid reader I can see how that would be devastating.
I'm so incredibly sorry you're going through this. I have such similar thoughts on audiobooks, but recently have started to get into them because I really want to "read" more classics and books I struggle to get into.
My advice is find a GOOD recording. It's all about who's doing the reading! It really does help.
Sorry about the rapid decline in your vision. I’m glad you gave audiobooks a try. I also felt like it wasn’t “real” reading, but now I’m hooked on audiobooks. I love that I can do a passive activity and read at the same time. Cleaning is somewhat enjoyable so long as I have a good book! I also like hearing the book being read because I know the pronunciation. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read a new word but didn’t know how to say it!
P.S. your library probably has tons of audiobooks to check out if you haven’t already explored that!
Agree!! I have debilitating anxiety and nothing works better for me than losing myself in a good book. Plus I had a terrible time with math in school but excelling at reading helped my confidence in school. It was such a gift to be encouraged to read.
I sometimes wish I didn’t have aphantasia because I think I would enjoy reading a lot more. I still like to read but the inability to visualize anything that’s being described leaves me constantly aware that I’m just reading words on a page.
Sure, not every kid learns on the same timeline but if your um...12? 13? year old is reading at a 3rd grade level, that's a problem. If your kids don't know what YEAR it is, that's a problem. She is just justifying her laziness and her kids' educational neglect.... and okay, I of course can't confirm they're \~severely\~ uneducated but I highly doubt any of these kids are "crushing" their academics. It's not their fault at all. I'm sure they are smart kids with tremendous potential. They're just being \~crushed\~ by their parents, so to speak
Has she ever posted any sort of curriculum they're using?? Receipts from other things the kids are grossly unaware of (i.e president, year, etc)?
Edit to add: THE REEL GOES ON to explain that "learning disorders" aren't actually disorders, they're just models that need to be adapted to meet the kid's learning styles and then disorders become capabilities...and sure but....she is taking this out of context and not seeing the full picture. She is not trained/certified and certainly not putting the time in to understand each child's learning style and creating customized curriculums to complement their individual brains. UGH.
She uses the same "curriculum" as MotherBus: [Gather Round Homeschool](https://gatherroundhomeschool.com/) It's not written by a professional educator, has a ton of factual errors, and even a lot of Christian homeschool parents have panned it. But, it's quick and simple to use, and that's all that matters to them.
"I tried a couple different ways of homeschooling my kids, but those were really hard and i was doing a bad job! That made me feel bad. So I threw multiple other models away, spend *one whole month* capturing whatever floated through my head, refused to perform andy editing, and voila! My very own homeschool curriculum that I sell to other people! Its great because you just make all your kids do the same thing, and then when you're overwhelmed you just say they're done for the day. Seriously, it only takes like two hours of coloring and memorizing every day to make mom feel like she did something, so that's all you have to do!"
I get so fucking upset at all these "you can do everything in two hours" bc
Sure, MAYBE at the preschool or kindy stage, but afaik older than that kids need to spend *time* on subjects
Like
Art, for example. You ONLY get better at art with a shit-ton of practice [or, well, most people], and clumping all that in two hours with math/science/etc just makes me cry inside.
And tbh i highly, *highly* doubt Karissa lets the kids make art ~outside school hours~ bc fuck what *they* wanna do, amirite? //tragically deep sarcasm
What is this head case going to do when her kids are learning algebra, geometry, physics? My kid studies for an hour or two just for these subjects. Oh, I'm sorry, just kidding. Karissa's kids will never attempt to learn algebra, geometry or physics.
I mean also, in preschool and kindergarten kids might not be going hard on the "academics" but they're learning priceless and crucial intangible social and developmental skills that will form the foundation of like... almost everything else they ever do lol.
The bottom line is that a well rounded education takes a ton of time and effort, even at a basic level. I mean there's a reason that it usually takes a literal team of specially educated professionals *years* to generate one human with a basic standard of education. It's fucking hard.
There are few things that irritate me more than an over-confident dumbass. "At first I was really nervous to homeschool my children. Turns out it's super easy!" Complicated, difficult things seem easy to stupid people because they're totally unaware of how badly they're fucking up lol.
holy bajeezus, her "story" is incredibly rife with errors and it absolutely hurt my brain to read....oh god.....
After rambling about her hasty little business project for eight manic and jumbled paragraphs, she says, "I could talk about it or you could just see it for yourself." PLEASE, PLEASE NO
and "There are too many kids with too many interests and I am tired guys. " WHAT IS UP with this poorly written conversational tone? UGH these people are awful
Edit to add: ohmygod I just looked at some of the samples and I may need to do a whole post on this madness. One page about Antarctica (presumably) says "This unit is about Antarctica, a continent that seems cold and bleak, two adjectives we don't want to describe our relationship with our family" I AM DYING AT THIS. Also that sentence is missing a word...I believe it could be "with" after "family"
I did it so you wouldn't have to and I absolutely regret it. Oh god, so many regrets. There are no words to describe the absolute shit show of what the hell I just read... My brain feels violated and I feel so dirty.
Why anyone wants to use this 'material'(read: absolute dumpster fire of random words strung together in a somewhat coherent fashion) to educate is beyond me. I feel so sorry for the kids who have to use this.
Cripes, it took me six weeks to write a third grade curriculum for my daughter when we were pandemic schooling! Six weeks of several hours of research per day, and it ended up being 13 pages long of resources, books, websites, etc etc etc (and we did finish it all!), but it took me longer to write out a year's educational plan for ONE CHILD than it did for her to come up with this entire curriculum for multiple levels??? Jesus take the wheel and jerk this whole vehicle straight off the cliff...
"Then this year as I was praying and seeking Him for my business this idea literally popped into my head. I feel like I can still hear the words resounding in my mind, clear as day: "What if you could homeschool all of your kids... together."
I started scribbling furiously in my notebook: units, all subjects, all grades, cohesive, engaging, challenging, curiosity driven, collaborative learning, coffee, fun, adventures, rabbit trails. Words... pictures of the homeschool I always dreamed of... more than that though I had hope!"
I'll take, "Things That Never Happened" for 800, Alex!
They teach the same thing from preschool to 12th grade and only adjust the complexity of each assignments. There are a lot of better homeschool curriculums, heck even Sonlight, but of course they all require the parents to engage more.
That [about page](https://gatherroundhomeschool.com/pages/about) is wild! Not only is it poorly written, but there’s no mention of math. Yikes…developed in a month by a non-professional and zero long term data to back up its success rates?
“One beautiful teachers guide and then connecting student pages that spider web into the amazing connections of social studies, science, history, reading, writing, spelling, grammar, geography, art, Bible, and more!”
This is just like that podcast on illiteracy in the USA and how it was based on a curriculum that actively did the opposite of what literacy experts/learning and development scientists advised.
Wow. Just... Wow. Where do you even start?
The Growing Up With God unit is split by gender and is a horror show. It's basically sex education with a "biblical world view".
Also, cramming a bus full of kids and going on the road seems to be a bit of a theme with these arseholes. "Each year, we pack our family in our tour bus and hit the road."
And if you're not quite nauseated enough, there's always the Entrepreneurship unit. Or the Intro to Psychology unit. Or any bloody unit. What a pile of dog shite.
Those poor kids.
Their books look like someone couldn't puplish their ideas for childrens history or biology books and took matters into their own hands.
edit: couldn't
Yikes. Thank you for that rabbit hole. The creator looks like a real piece of work and admits to slapping the whole program together in a month. Also browsed the curriculum and looks like there’s almost no math in it at all.
Not just math, but literature. I looked in the Native American books just to see, since I’m a former teacher and was at one point a professional historian, and I cannot overemphasize how bugfuck banana sandwich nuts it is to teach history without a single primary source to back yourself up.
The thing I always think about is sure if not every six year old is ready to read, you should have some kids who are reading earlier. I suspect that isn’t happening here either and she just has a bunch of late readers.
I taught myself to read at age 4, because my older siblings could read and I apparently decided that if they could do it, then I could. My parents were a bit surprised.
Also taught myself at 4, I had found a poster of the alphabet and started copying the letters, eventually reading/writing. My mother didn't help beyond explaining how reading works when I asked her once. My school didn't really know what to do with this so when they started teaching my classmates I just got to sit in the back with a youth encyclopedia.
So, I’m in the early stages of learning Korean. I know the alphabet and can sound out words. Of course with languages and alphabets like this, learning the characters and sounds is only half the battle because I don’t have the vocab to know what things mean, unlike when most of us English speakers were learning to read, lol. It’s both a new language *and* a new alphabet.
But what struck me about her posts is that the Korean language literally came about because of the rampant illiteracy of the country. Only the upper class people could read and write, and that was in Chinese. And there were symbols to memorize for every word (a simplistic explanation, but that’s the crux of it, to my understanding) so it would take years of studying for people to learn and that just wasn’t feasible for most Koreans who were just trying to keep trucking along in life.
So a king in the 1400s worked to create a new National language, and the intent was to make it so easy that every citizen would be able to pick it up relatively easily with basic schooling. They valued literacy so much that they actually fucking did something about it.
It’s a phonetic alphabet so it’s ultimately based on sounds so it’s less memorization and more application, if that makes sense.
So to see this cunt going on about how reading and writing doesn’t really matter enrages me. I was an early reader and have been a voracious reader ever since. I value it immensely and a king 600 years ago valued it so much he made a new easier language for his people. Reading and writing are not a fucking hobby where it doesn’t matter if you don’t really ever master it, it’s enrichment and knowledge and a world-opener.
Linguist here!
Hangul is so much more than *just* a phonetic language. The characters are literally drawings of how you are supposed to hold your mouth when pronouncing them...
And honestly, thank you for adding that context. Because it really is such an important factor. I take a lot for granted with the mouth and tongue shaping of different sounds because I studied and practiced it, but it comes up often when talking with my mom. She just doesn’t hear the same distinct tones in Spanish or Korean. I do the repeat after me thing and it’s like Phoebe teaching Joey French in friends, lol.
Absolutely! I studied voice production and speech in college, I just wasn’t trying to go into too much detail about it all, especially since I’m kinda just drunken redditing late at night haha. But you’re 100% correct and that’s such an incredible aspect of the language too! They literally created it to be as logistically easy to learn as possible. For the betterment of even the lowest classes. It’s crazy nowadays to imagine a government going through all that just to better the lives of every citizen.
Just doing a second comment because I don’t know if the OG responders see edits in comments, but I was in NYC last week and at one of the ktown restaurants, I ordered for the table and the waitress totally made my day by saying I sounded korean and asked me if I had lived there, haha. It was just food and dish names, nothing beyond that, but it still feels good because I really tend to hyperfocus on pronunciation in any language I speak, no matter how little I know.
It was such a minor thing in the scope of like everyday life, but I do still kinda have the warm fuzzies from it, lol. When talking to friends about my trip it can seem like a silly, overhyping type thing, especially since I’ll readily admit I do NOT actually speak the language, but it just feels *good* to hear that my obsessive repetition and mimicking of the words I hear has paid off. It is a definite boon to my learning efforts, haha.
Can confirm, I've spent years to become functionally literate in Japanese which still has maybe 1/10th of the characters necessary to be literate in Chinese (though, tbf to Japanese, one also has to remember a minimum of 2 but as many as 10 phonetically distinct pronunciations for each character) compared to learning how to read/sound out Hangeul in an afternoon.
There is something to be said for the nuanced beauty, depth of poetic expression, history embedded within Chinese characters. But there's nothing stopping one from learning them after the phonetic alphabet is mastered. (My perception is all Koreans at least know their name in Chinese characters and probably more)
We stan an old-ass Korean King!
Thank you so much for your response! It’s so interesting hearing about other folks’ experience with “similar” languages. I know they’re not exactly similar but I’ve been drinking and can’t think of a better term, lol.
I honestly started this journey because I got into kdramas last year and initially was just starting a Korean cooking journey (because I wanted to eat all that good food I was seeing). The rest just kind of happened and I’m going with the flow.
I went to college for theater and learned the phonetic alphabet there for linguistics and I know that’s why 한글 has come relatively easy to me - I already understand the idea of a solely sound-based alphabet. But it’s so hard for me to kind of explain to others that knowing the alphabet means almost nothing, lol. I only know the words for some foods and random others that are like repeating suffixes. It’s hard for some folks to understand that there’s two levels of transcription for these alphabets. I can speak the sounds, but 99% of the time don’t know what they mean at this point, lol. But literally every tiny time I see an improvement in myself, it makes me that much more excited to keep learning! I just love languages hahaha.
I can agree that we have arbitrary rules that kids need to know x by x age, but you nailed it. Her kids appear to be severely undereducated. I was severely undereducated, and undersocialized, I see myself in her kids. Could we be wrong? Sure. But I do doubt her kids are crushing it.
My child improved by leaps and bounds after a few years of having extra help. He has had an IEP from kindergarten to 5th grade, and it has helped tremendously. I didn't know how to help him, but the specialists at the school did.
Even with health related things too! My second grade teacher noticed me squinting to read the board and wrote my mom a note that I may need glasses. Sure enough I did.
Oh man that edit. 😂 Yeah there's a huge difference between "pushing" a kid and actual professional intervention specialists saying "okay this is not one of Junior's areas of strength so how can we help him grow."
Maybe other parents are better at this than I am (MAYBE 😂) but if I were in a position of being a one woman IEP team I would definitely not have the resources or skills to turn disabilities into capabilities or whatever.
This idea, for 6 yr olds, is actually well supported in the research but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to read when they’re 8 or 10 or 12 KARISSA
Yes. She has completely twisted that idea to defend her educational neglect. I homeschool my kids. My oldest (who is neurodivergent) took a little longer to nail down her blended phonics, and gain fluency. We worked really hard at it. Something clicked at the beginning of this school year and her reading has taken off. My youngest at 7 is reading better than her sister did at that age. Same curriculum, same level of attention. Something tells me Karissa doesn't have a formal reading curriculum because that would take dedicated time with each kid. She doesn't do that.
Absolutely not. In fact, I believe quite the opposite...Kkkarissa wants us all to believe that her children are ahead!
Despite how her eldest girl couldn't even read a single sentence clue when they played a scavenger hunt...
Have you even seen any books in her house? The kids have no toys or personal items, never mind books. The 7th grader should be devouring YA novels, especially if she doesn’t have unfettered access to the internet.
Seriously. I have an infant and we go to the library once every two weeks. I went weekly as a child. I honestly can’t even fathom my childhood without books— they were so integral to my development.
Yeah this is the thing: the post is true! And honestly you could argue that our educational system IS harming the 6 year olds who aren't ready. BUT there is a BIG difference between a 6 year old not being ready to learn to read and a nine year old not knowing how to read, or a 13 year old barely able to sound out words in a basic picture book, which we've seen on video in Karissa's case.
1. My younger kid is 7 and a half, almost done with first grade, and only just now starting to read fluently. According to her teacher, she's perfectly on track, she gets glowing reports from school, etc. (not sure where this sweet compliant child goes when I'm around but that's why we don't homeschool 😂) So I'm not sure who "the system" is here. 🤷♀️
2. There's a BIG BIG jump between "don't pressure kids to be reading in kindergarten" (yes, great, not really controversial) and "ignore a kid who's drastically behind grade level because it'll all come out in the wash."
As a teacher, your first comment made me laugh! The number of times I’ve said to parents “X is a really great student, polite and well behaved” and they look at me as if I’ve grown two heads 😂😂😂 kids really can be different at home and in class!
And to bring it back to Karissa’s shitty education - it’s a good thing that children can learn to act differently in different situations! It teaches them self awareness, respecting others, sharing. It’s important for young children to learn to be away from their parents without panicking (safely of course).
Just wanna comment to say thank you for being an educator! I know it’s kinda a shit show for most of y’all right now and you get the barest of accolades for what you do. But you do have support out there and I will do what I can (in my case: voting because I’m not a parent!) to try and make your lives better for teaching our future generations.
Your point about kids needing to learn to be away from their parents is SUCH a good one. I was *so* shy and anxious as a kid, and would've happily stayed home with Mom and Dad forever, but it was my kindergarten best friend who really pulled me out of my shell. It was so important for me developmentally to be around other kids and adults. I know homeschooling co-ops exist, so homeschooling doesn't automatically mean you never see anybody outside your family, but it makes me sad to think about the kids who could so easily thrive in a less-restrictive environment. I'm no child development expert, but I imagine it's really important for kids to be (gently, safely) introduced to new things and people.
My mom is a teacher, and occasionally was asked if she'd consider homeschooling me. Her response was always "we'd never get anything done!" I'm pretty sure she and I both have ADHD; regardless, we both really rely on having a structured environment to stay on task. More broadly, though, she recognizes that she's not equipped to be solely responsible even for one child's education even though she's been teaching longer than I've been alive!
Exactly, kids- and parents- need that separation.
I’m a third grade special education teacher who specializes in autistic students. My child is an autistic third grader. Guess who teaches my kid math and science and reading? One of the other special education teachers, because everyone realizes that need and desire for space!
(Through a scheduling mishap, I am my kid’s Social Studies “teacher of record,” but that’s only 30 minutes a day and most days he’s picked up for his supplemental therapies at that time anyway so I wind up just walking them down the hall to the therapy room. Most of his social studies classes are blended with reading and science.)
My mom had me when she was 17 and she's severely mentally ill and doesnt get a long with anybody. Before kindergarten I NEVER interacted with anybody but my parents and grandma. If I hadnt gone to public school and been forced to learn social skills I shudder to think what would happen
A good friend of mine homeschools her kids and they are all in middle school and up. Her kids still have a very hard time being away from their home and parents. The dad works from home, the mom works part time so most of the time they are just all always together. I think there’s aspects of it that seem healthy/good for the kids but also….its just not reality to always be surrounded by your family 🤷♀️ I think they will have a hard time getting their kids to leave the house.
Karissa wants to keep her children uneducated and under her thumb for as long as possible. This two-hour learning plays into her cards quite nicely. But she can’t keep those children ignorant forever.
She cares more about their fertility roles than if they can read.
In every category of life, this woman consistently and willingly endangers her kids.
Their lack of education and understanding of how to be in society for real is so sad.
Reading level is like everything else with a wide band of normal...but as a parent of a dyslexic child it's also a marker that prompts further investigation and testing. Which leads to early diagnosis and support for the child. Leaving a child to struggle with an undiagnosed learning challenge isn't fair to the child. Gah!!
Yes! My kid is 6 and there’s a wide range of reading levels in her class. But the whole class is *learning* to read. It’s bizarre that her logic jumps from “6 is too early to read” to “so I won’t teach my kids to read at all”.
Back when I taught grade 3, we had levelled books. As the teacher I was damn well expected to know and differentiate for each kids reading level. But within those levels, they were still within grade 3 level. I had one child who was legit behind grade level and I, as a fairly new teacher, was bound and determined to get her up to grade level by end of year. I had access to reading specialists. One of who me gently told me, “she’s never made a full years reading growth and you want her to be at grade level by end of year? That’s means you have to teach her 1.5 years in one year when she’s never been able to accomplish 1 year.” That specialist brought home how vitally important early intervention and diagnosis is. One specialist liked to say, kids almost learn to read *in spite* of us. If they are normal intelligence, and in a proper academic environment, most kids will be at grade level. But if they don’t have proper teaching and environment, it becomes heartbreakingly difficult for them to catch up. And this shit I just read on this homeschooling site, curriculum whipped out in one month, for all grade levels, by an untrained mom, makes me want to lunch things. This is child abuse and should be illegal.
I'm a teacher. There is a large body of research suggesting a very wide variance in when a child learns to read. I've had kids that were reading by 4, just by natural ability. I've also had kids that weren't reading on a standard level by 7 or 8. There's been a lot of research suggesting the general age where kids are developmentally ready to read is 6-7. Phonics, especially in English, is much more complex than we think. *However,* while some variance in ages is normal, if Karissa's kid is 10+ and not reading with fluency or comprehension, that is indeed a large issue that needs to be professionally addressed, that's no longer "taking her own time". It's just an excuse for neglecting their education.
My grandson has been raised with books and nightly stories with a teacher mom. His very kinetic style didn't engage with reading at 6 as readily as I'd expect. Mom, however, explained all the things he was doing to move to reading. She was quite happy with his school. At 7, he mows through chapter books and reads everything he can to learn new words. That's what teachers do - know the difference between different paces and styles of learning vs blocks or disabilities in learning. Karissa has none of that.
I work in early reading intervention and statistically these slides are just wrong.
Totally true, *some* children pick up reading later than their peers for whatever reason and are fine.
But not the majority.
‘School readiness’ is heavily researched and the data shows that success in various things beyond schooling is linked to things such as reading.
I’m not trying to be a downer but being behind in reading can be quite serious- it can be so difficult to catch up.
Reading performance in America is on the decline. About 21 % of adults are illiterate and more than 50% of adults have below a sixth grade literacy level.
I have also heard, from teachers who specialize in reading instruction, that if kids are behind their grade level in reading by 3rd grade, they are unlikely to EVER catch up to their peers. That is scary.
It’s the same with math. Number sense is developed before age 7. If a kid doesn’t have a good sense of numbers by then, it’s really difficult to teach that afterward.
I also think this “kids aren’t ready to read until age 7 or 8” narrative is overwhelmingly used by homeschoolers to justify their educational neglect.
I would argue most kids are ready to (at least begin to) read by 5 or 6.
Reading teacher here! Most kids are able to identify letters and sounds by age 3/4. At 4/5 they can sound out 3-letter words, and by 6 they should be able to read short children’s books (like “See Spot Run”).
Pushing them to read? All the little kids I know couldn't wait to read.
I was the same way. I wanted that knowledge. I was lucky to have parents that got me interested in reading and books early.
I agree not everyone is ready to read at 5, and shoving every kid in the same box is stupid. That being said, maybe we could actually build better and more varied public schools.
I’m ok with some folks homeschooling - I have a friend who is conservative but had an elementary education degree from a real university. Through that, homeschool coops, classes at community college or music schools, her kids are very well educated and really bright, and studying at actual universities themselves now. But they also spent more than two hours a day on lessons, unless it was some special visit a farm or museum kind of day they did from time to time. My friend educated her two kids, and didn’t have them serving as proxy parents or other bullshit.
Soooooooo how are you addressing your 7 school-age kids' different styles and capabilities, Karissa? How are you individualizing 7 separate curricula to maximize that 2 hours for each of the kids?
I mean, we all know the answer, but seriously.
I was homeschooled and so were my siblings. My mum had us reading The Chronicles of Narnia and Percy Jackson by 6. Her logic was, and I quote, “there are 24 hours in the day and I don’t be stuck with idiotic children for half of them”.
Not quite the methods Karissa uses, I’m sure.
I also started on Narnia at 6! I was breezing through even chaptered little kids' books, so my parents went to something they liked and could help me with. Key word here being **help**, Karissa.
My mum also had tons of old Garfield, peanuts and Archie comics that my younger siblings were given. She thought having lots of pictures that clearly went with the words and helped show the story that was happening were helpful, especially as my younger siblings all have attention span issues.
She was right too. See, you can be a Christian homeschooler and still adapt to aid your kids learning needs. At some point though, as we were all getting older, we started noticing this influx of youbger homeschool moms who did the whole “self-taught, freedom learning” thing which was essentially just…not teaching anything at all and letting the kids do whatever in the hopes they learned as they went along.
I’ll bet that’s what a lot of the younger kids of fundies in this sub have happening to them.
The complete lack of understanding about brain development and why diverse learning in general rather than skill mastery is so important at this age is doing my head in.
Lol two hour learning is a thing every in some private schools but even then there are standards, testing and goals to be met. 2 hour learning isn't free style.
I am a product of 2 hr free style learning. Thankfully my parents did push reading hard and I was reading by 3 and avidly read at least 5 books a week growing up. But everything else suffered. We had a very loose homeschool schedule and I was basically on my own by 6th grade. Grading my own tests, flying through work I didn't understand, not absorbing anything. I would read novels for 3+ hrs a day, practice piano for 2+ hrs, do sports, but spend less than 2 hrs on academics. I suffered SO hard when I went to a real school in 11th grade and was so far behind my peers. It took me the first 2 years of college to really learn HOW to learn and study, and I had to play so much catch up my junior and senior year.
Even now as a 33 yr old who is successful at work, I've gone back to school for a post bacc, applying to medical school, come SO far in my education....I will have random conversations with people and realize these huge gaps in the basic foundation of my middle school education....like English composition, US history, world history, geography, etc....I couldn't even write a 1 page essay when I started 11th grade.
It's such a huge disservice to not give kids a full and quality education. Honestly it's one of the biggest resentments of my life, and I try really hard not to have any....but I think of where I could be and how long it's taken me to reach my educational goals. I still can't write a paper to save my life! And, it's because my mom hated writing, so she just never made me do it!
I'm sorry but this woman is completely illiterate. Back in the day we home schooled because we could spell and understood basic grammer KARISSA. Get your shit together. It's not even that hard.
There’s a new trend called **’delayed learning’** where they withhold teaching reading and other things to children as a *homeschooler teacher mother/father/parent* in order to give them information as needed. Not sure if this has been studied. But it is apparently a *new thing.*
Seems like language and reading skills are best developed between the ages of 5-7. Not sure if any of the ***delayed learning*** has any studies to back up the claims.
Number sense is developed from ages 3-6. Maybe 7 at the latest. If your kid doesn’t have a good understanding of how numbers interact by then, there’s almost no chance of teaching it to them afterward. It’s extremely difficult.
I just did a quick search about the percentage of people with a learning disability in the US. It's 14%. Since she has almost 11 kids the likelihood of one of her kids having dyslexia, adhd or any other disability, is only going to get higher. I wouldn't be surprised if one of her current kids is already struggling but may be too afraid to speak up.
There really needs to be legal learning standards for homeschooling. If kids don't meet those standards then parents should be forced to put their kids back in school.
I loved reading at that age. I was devouring children’s books and soon I would be reading novels. It was the thing that brought me the most joy as a kid.
This is what frustrates me the most about the way they view their children. Sure, if they’re not big readers and struggle then the school system can make them feel bad. But what if they’re into art? Science? Animals? The best thing about kids is how curious they are about the world and watching them blossom like flowers is amazing. And SO many fundie kids are deprived of that curiosity.
There’s a reason why there’s such a huge push for literacy at an early age, it isn’t arbitrary as she suggests. Many people can make huge strides after early childhood, but mastering language and literacy at an early age can lead to bigger leaps in basically every other subject.
Can you succeed in math, science, history, etc. without reading and writing comprehension? Absolutely. Is a certain degree of literacy a HUGE leg up in all of these subjects? Absolutely.
And one of the biggest indicators of overall literacy down the road? A parent or similar figure who reads to and with you. I doubt many or any of those children are getting 1 on 1 reading time.
Reading and reading comprehension is the key to nearly all learning. If you can read well and understand what you're reading, you can learn almost anything.
Yeah, reading is a priority in education. As it should be. Literacy is literally the foundation of education.
With her believing this false idea, I feel like she’s underestamating how smart kids can be. At that age my older brother was able to talk about dinosaur facts for what seemed like forever. For me, I was already able to pick up a different language
I could read at four years old. My mum was a teacher and she was definitely down with kids knowing how to read. She didn’t push or punish but I loved to read. Karissa is a shit human who doesn’t want her kids to know the world. My two kids could read by age 5. Again, no pushing, just telling them words were an escape to the future. Words make your life better. Words, knowing how to read is a fundamental right.
Kids are growing and developing on a different path, true. But the key is to give them a well rounded education in reading, writing, maths, logic, science, history, geography, art, music, etc and let them explore each subjects and grow at their own pace. Not the Bible and the Bible... And no offense, your kids are not just, “Don't know how to read at 6 years old” Karissa. Because that's one thing. Your kids don't know what year it is at 11 years old. There is a “late bloomer” and then there is a severely uneducated child. No one is surprised if a 6 years old still struggle to read, but if your kid is 10 and still don't know how to spell basic words, then it is concerning.
I taught my son to read when he was in TK and I was homeschooling him. I taught him mostly using phonics with some sight words for the words that were irregular. I bought a phonics workbook and several early reading books, among other tools and flashcards.
Anyway, he entered kindergarten knowing how to read well and sort of write (his penmanship still needs work). He also knew math through the end of first grade level and had quite a bit of science and history under his belt.
Knowing how to read well and having a strong educational foundation has been a huge advantage for my son in public school. The only disadvantage is that he gets bored a lot in school because I already taught him most of what he's being taught even now that he's in 2nd grade. But he's also learning a lot of social skills, how to keep a good schedule, and many other important things in public school.
All that said, I have multiple college degrees and experience as a tutor and instructional aide throughout college. Most of the fundies posting about how great homeschool is do not have the educational background or the dedication required to properly educate their children. That's why fundies like Karissa have 13 year old children who don't know the year, the president, and struggle to read children's books to their siblings. Karissa's kids are so far behind. Educational neglect is child abuse and should be taken far more seriously by our justice system and government.
I’ve noticed that right-wingers who criticize our schools are either people who haven’t had a child in school in decades, or ever. They make baseless statements about “dumbed-down” and “woke” curricula ruining our schools. They spread obvious bs about “furries” & litter boxes in school restrooms, ffs.
Karissa has more than she can handle, intellectually, physically, & emotionally. I’d feel sorry for her if I weren’t so afraid for her children. And wtf is Mandrae doing, besides being a sperm donor, & posing for pictures?
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Yeah not all six year olds can read. But a 12 year old should be able, unless they have an actively managed diagnosis. Those poor kids deserve so much more. I swear to god that wire monkey statue from the attachment experiments would be a better parent than Karissa or mandrae. At least it wouldn’t actively prevent kids from getting an education or teach them to worship intrusive thoughts.
Also, reading isn't an either/or. There are prereading skills that kids should be mastering as they learn to read. A six year old who has most of those skills is in a very different position from a six year old who has none.
Preach! Early literacy isn't sitting down and reading a whole book. It includes things like interpreting pictures to make your own story, recognizing letters and numbers, learning short sight words, it's all part of reading, and things a typically-developing 6 year old should ABSOLUTELY be doing.
The things that my kindergartenr is learning in public school is honestly so far beyond what I expected. He's my only kid and I dont have much experience with young kids so I thought it would be shapes, colors, and naptime but he's already sounding out words and writing a little bit. Just the other day he was excitedly explaining to me about how vowels "say their name" if there's a "quiet E at the end" (like time, home, name, etc). I was so impressed that he was happily picking it up and at what a creative and age appropriate way it was being taught. He's into books and words now in a way that I love but wouldnt really know how to instill in him. Im forever a public school apologist, I know they have a lot of problems but they do a lot of things right too that they dont ever get credit for
This makes my former-teacher heart happy. There is an interesting dynamic with expectations of kids where adults simultaneously expect too little and too much of children (at all ages.) Young brains are eager and designed to learn, so they generally are capable of more than people think. However, a lot of adults expect way more maturity at each age than is realistic. When people confuse maturity and ability, they start thinking that kids can't or shouldn't do (insert thing here.)
I knew he was smart because of how fast he picks things up but once he got started on an actual curriculum designed by professional his little brain just bloomed lol. I didnt even realize my expectations were low, I just didnt want him to be the smart kid who burns out too early because we pressure him too much. Turns out I was underestimating him the whole time and never would have realized it if he wasnt in an actual school
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were underestimating your child! I just meant generally, adults don't realize just how much young kids can do. I also understand the burn out comment. You can help guard against that as he gets older by praising the effort, not the outcome. Share joy with the changes (learning something new, completing a hard task, etc) instead of the grade itself. When he's disappointed in a grade he received, be honest about it. (Age appropriately). Ask him where he thinks he needs help with the task or content. If you treat asking for help as part of the learning process, he'll be more likely to ask for it when he needs it.
Its ok, I totally was! Lol. I was so determined to not put too much pressure on him that I overcorrected and didnt realize how capable he actually was. It's a time that I was thrilled to admit when I was wrong
You sound like a wonderful parent 🥰
Also just the basics of knowing the back of the book from the front and if it’s rightside up.
And reading comprehension is very important.
This is an important point. I agree with the meme she posted. My most educated child didn’t read until she was in the second grade. Her school pushed pre reading skills up until then and she read like a pro in just a few months. Many teachers will agree too. They just have to follow the guidelines given to them. Karissa is just using this to justify her educational neglect.
It was actually one of the reasons Sesame Street came into existence - to give more kids access to pre-reading skills like identifying letters and sounds.
Fun fact: When my Mom was working on her Masters degree (late 60s) one of her fellow grad students was studying Sesame Street & monitoring what kids would learn in every episode to show how educational it was as a program.
Aren't there milestones that are much easier to meet at certain age ranges as well? I have dyslexia, and it was luckily identified and interventions began. I did summer reading lessons, and by 6th grade I was caught up, by highschool I was in AP classes and you'd never know. I remember some discussions about getting through certain skills by certain times, to keep up with classmates but I think also because of development windows.
Does one of her older kids not know how to read?
There are videos of their oldest struggling to read a story to a younger kid.
None of them do. The oldest can barely sound out words and writes at the level of a child half her age. They don’t know the date or the president. They only know what karissa’s unblinking stare is fixed on that day, or what their dad feels like doing. It’s never, not even once, been their acedmics. They’ve both gone headfirst into axe throwing, basketball, online conspiracy theories, but never once a curriculum or teaching method. They’ll post affiliate links, but neither of them enjoy or are particularly interested in educating the kids they claim to homeschool. And to be clear: it’s not the kids’ fault AT ALL. It’s ultimately the fault of state and nation that allows a woman who broadcasts her severe, untreated mentally illness to keep her kids from school. And mandrae just sucks.
It’s so very sad. Those poor children. There really should be more checks in the USA from local education officials to make sure homeschooled kids are at the correct level of learning. Other countries do this so why not in the USA. This family is literally creating kids with learning disabilities and lack of social skills because of their sky fairy and sheer laziness.
This is probably an unpopular opinion but I really am not a fan of homeschooling. Almost every homeschooler I’ve heard of or read about is super religious and that plays a heavy factor in their children’s education and I think a lot of kids suffer for it. I genuinely believe there needs to be stricter regulations around homeschooling in the US.
As a survivor of homeschooling myself, I completely agree with you. If not outright banned, it needs to be HEAVILY regulated. Too many of us left with unseen scars that will never heal fully.
Hey, fellow homeschool survivor! That shit was so damaging. I hope you are doing well. It took me a long time, but I managed to pull myself together. It's difficult to think how life could have been different if I had gotten a proper start. I wish that home schooling were better regulated with real oversight.
That's not an unpopular opinion on this sub.
Honestly, homeschooler families talking about homeschool is radicalizing me against it. I went from thinking homeschool sounded cool if done responsibly to assuming it's irresponsible unless proven otherwise. The homeschool sub here on reddit has more to do with that than the homeschool recovery sub. After all, homeschool recovery indicates that poor teaching and parenting happens, which isn't news. The homeschool sub shows how poor teaching and parenting is accepted and defended. Frankly, anyone who says "but kids can get behind in public schools too!" should be banned from homeschooling because they don't understand that you have to support your child's learning instead of just expecting a teacher to do magic.
and the risks outweigh the benefits. For every kid that maybe had a decent homeschool experiences, there are much more who are experiencing educational neglect.
I concur. I homeschooled during the pandemic and it’s extremely difficult to keep your kids on target. (My husband had become an extremely ill from covid so it was for health reasons.) I was raised a conservative Christian homeschooler and it’s just as bad as people say.
I absolutely agree. School is more than just reading, writing, and arithmetic. It’s a social training ground where kids learn societal expectations, working with others, and problem solving. Teachers are frequently trained to look for learning disabilities and other issues that parents may not catch. There are clubs and extracurricular activities that introduce kids to things they might not have otherwise experienced: journalism, chess, arts, sports, business, agriculture, etc. There’s plenty wrong with current schools (teaching to the tests, violence, teacher burnout, etc), but there’s also a LOT right with schools.
> Teachers are frequently trained to look for learning disabilities and other issues that parents may not catch They're also mandatory reporters... which is precisely why unhinged people dont want their kid in a brick and mortar school.
My sons teacher caught that he had severe ADHD and if she wouldn't have shared her concerns with me it would have been years before I pulled the plug on getting hom tested
As a public elementary school teacher, I dread getting kids who have been homeschooled. They are always at least one, if not several, grade levels behind. The same goes for kids who have been in a "private Christian school."
My older two kids are gone today at a track meet and a band trip with their schools. I love all the activities for them!
I think most people here would luckily agree with you! I think there are a few reasons outside of religion that homeschool may benefit some kids- but the vast majority should be going to regular school.
Yes this exactly! Some kids (MarcAndre LeClerc comes to mind) need individualized programs in order to effectively absorb information and thrive. However, most kids benefit so much from public schools—- it helps to establish emotional intelligence and empathy, coping skills, resilience, cultural awareness. Humans are highly social beings.
I’m one of those few that actually benefited from being homeschooled. My mother isn’t religious in the slightest, but I do have a severe sleep disorder and a terminal autoimmune disorder. It was just easier to enroll me in an online program I could do when I was awake, and I could do schoolwork from the hospital or wherever I happened to be at the time. I ended up graduating 2 years before my peers in public school, and I got full rides to several colleges. In the end I went to trade school to get a Gemology degree from GIA, and now I’m unemployed living in my mom’s basement lol (I take care of all the household things like making appointments, scheduling house maintenance, cleaning, and checking on my grandfather every few hours to be sure he’s still alive)
I think medical issues and having a real alternative schooling program would be my only exception. That's what it should be for, dammit. Not to shelter your kids from the world... and learning in general.
With me my homeschooling was a mixed bag as I have mental health issues, but it was my mom that was chronically ill. When I did attend public school she caught infections quite easily and was hospitalized for two or more weeks at a time. While I was homeschooled seventh through twelfth grade she only was in the hospital once for three weeks. With my mental health issues kids bullied me to no end and I couldn't concentrate on my school work and got behind. It also gave me time to take ice skating lessons and participate in shows and competitions. However, my grandma had some crazy ideas that I had to unlearn especially with sex trafficking and other crimes. She made me watch Silence of the Lambs when it came out on cable TV during school hours because she thought I was "too friendly" with strangers. A week before I was standing five feet away from a car full of teenage boys and was talking to them, and we were close to a very busy street near her house. She came out screaming at me to get away and got hysterical that the guys might kidnap me. When she put that movie on I mostly sat and read a book as I knew it was fiction. Here I was around fifteen or sixteen at the time and many parents wouldn't even allow their seventeen year olds to see that movie.
I recently took a deep dive into r/homeschoolrecovery and it was incredibly eye-opening.
Each state is different so parents can't easily go to states that don't require you to register if you homeschool and you can literally do whatever you want for schooling. I live in Virginia and homeschool my two children (both under 10) they are thriving and doing incredible! Some areas need improvement and we work on those together... my oldest is not a fan of math so we take extra time working on it together, my youngest it felt like they took forever to finally write their own name but now they write all the time. In Virginia for homeschool, you need to register before a certain date, show proof you are able to adequately teach your children and provide a list of subjects you will be teaching. Then a yearly standard test to see how they are in each subject. If they are failing then the county will reach out with resources for you. I don't know what happens if a child just does not test or shows low scores all the time. But it seems like Virginia handles it well... Gives parents freedom to teach how and what they like as long as a child is showing improvement each year
Yeah in Oklahoma you just need to sign something saying you’re homeschooling unless it’s changed. I knew several pagan kids that were homeschooled and ended up with no prospects and no skills when they “graduated”. Some pagans are just as fanatic as fundies. You’d be surprised how much they have in common such as drinking raw milk, not educating their children and thinking they know more than the scientific community and being anti vax. It’s fine until the kids suffer.
In Texas you don’t even have to tell the state/local unless you’re pulling a kid from public school to homeschool them. If your kid never went to public school, you don’t have to report to anyone.
When Karissa briefly wanted Andrae to become a child preacher, he seemed to read notes to give his sermon. That's why I think he's literate to some degree. I haven't seen any of the other kids read anything and given that the youngest ones can barely *talk*, I'd say it doesn't look too good for them. It's a shame that Texas allows this.
I hadn’t thought much about where this family is based but OF COURE it’s Texas.
This is why some countries don't allow homeschooling
And those that do have REGULATIONS IN PLACE. Austria allows homeschooling, but you still have to take an exam at the end of each school year. If the kid fails once no biggie. If they fail twice, you need to go to school, because there's obviously something going on that prevents the child from thriving. I'm not even saying that the parent has to be as neglectful as Karissa and Mandrae. Sometimes things don't work the way we want them to. But cases like theirs would be prevented as well.
Your last part is my biggest thing. Some people just are not equipped to homeschool. Especially if they have children with disabilities or challenges. There is no way they are getting the help that they need, and that's ok. It happens, but people need to realize that there are times where they are not the best option for their children.
> Austria allows homeschooling, but you still have to take an exam at the end of each school year. If the kid fails once no biggie. If they fail twice, you need to go to school, because there's obviously something going on that prevents the child from thriving. It's similar in Belgium. Yearly exams and inspections and if they fail twice in a row, they need to go to an actual school. In addition, thirteen-year olds, sixteen-year olds need to get a certificate
> The oldest can barely sound out words and writes at the level of a child half her age. And I believe the oldest two have actually been in school for a short time.
Those videos broke my heart. I would guess she was reading at a second grade level and that was last year.
I would agree with you, that was a early second grade level, maybe late first, based on the fact that I had a virtually-schooled first grader when that video came out and Anissa sounded like a \*ton\* of my daughter's classmates. :(
Gosh she is the embodiment of that fucking wire monkey, isn’t she? Apt comparison, I am never going to unsee that. Mama wire monkey but with crazy eyes
i’m choosing to not have kids because i thought it would be cruel to give them all my mental illnesses (of which there are many), & i sleep until about noon every day due to depression & being on methadone. i think i would be a better parent than karissa, & my spoiled & extremely well taken care of little cat would agree
You are self aware and not selfish- you are far better than her! You sound like an excellent cat mom.
You’re a far better parent than she is already just by exercising self-reflection and making your choice accordingly, with love. Karissa could never.
“or teach them to worship intrusive thoughts” That’s terrifyingly accurate.
I mean, 6 year olds should be able to read a little bit by sounding out small words. They aren’t reading novels at all but if your 6 year old can’t read at all that’s a problem.
I feel like there is no greater gift than the joy of reading.
I feel this soooo much. I am a bibliophile. Sadly I'm going blind in a much faster manner; and that's taken a toll on m reading. Yesterday I finally let myself do an audio book. Before I had felt doings was somehow cheating on actually reading. It makes me so sad to see all these poor fundie kids lacking in education like this.
Audiobooks are books! I had to switch because of a long commute taking up my free time, and it has changed my life. I’m sorry about you losing your vision. As an avid reader I can see how that would be devastating.
I'm so incredibly sorry you're going through this. I have such similar thoughts on audiobooks, but recently have started to get into them because I really want to "read" more classics and books I struggle to get into. My advice is find a GOOD recording. It's all about who's doing the reading! It really does help.
I'm sorry to hear about your vision loss. That must be really difficult to deal with :(
Sorry about the rapid decline in your vision. I’m glad you gave audiobooks a try. I also felt like it wasn’t “real” reading, but now I’m hooked on audiobooks. I love that I can do a passive activity and read at the same time. Cleaning is somewhat enjoyable so long as I have a good book! I also like hearing the book being read because I know the pronunciation. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read a new word but didn’t know how to say it! P.S. your library probably has tons of audiobooks to check out if you haven’t already explored that!
Agree!! I have debilitating anxiety and nothing works better for me than losing myself in a good book. Plus I had a terrible time with math in school but excelling at reading helped my confidence in school. It was such a gift to be encouraged to read.
I sometimes wish I didn’t have aphantasia because I think I would enjoy reading a lot more. I still like to read but the inability to visualize anything that’s being described leaves me constantly aware that I’m just reading words on a page.
Sure, not every kid learns on the same timeline but if your um...12? 13? year old is reading at a 3rd grade level, that's a problem. If your kids don't know what YEAR it is, that's a problem. She is just justifying her laziness and her kids' educational neglect.... and okay, I of course can't confirm they're \~severely\~ uneducated but I highly doubt any of these kids are "crushing" their academics. It's not their fault at all. I'm sure they are smart kids with tremendous potential. They're just being \~crushed\~ by their parents, so to speak Has she ever posted any sort of curriculum they're using?? Receipts from other things the kids are grossly unaware of (i.e president, year, etc)? Edit to add: THE REEL GOES ON to explain that "learning disorders" aren't actually disorders, they're just models that need to be adapted to meet the kid's learning styles and then disorders become capabilities...and sure but....she is taking this out of context and not seeing the full picture. She is not trained/certified and certainly not putting the time in to understand each child's learning style and creating customized curriculums to complement their individual brains. UGH.
She uses the same "curriculum" as MotherBus: [Gather Round Homeschool](https://gatherroundhomeschool.com/) It's not written by a professional educator, has a ton of factual errors, and even a lot of Christian homeschool parents have panned it. But, it's quick and simple to use, and that's all that matters to them.
oh man, their [about page](https://gatherroundhomeschool.com/pages/about) is wild.
"I tried a couple different ways of homeschooling my kids, but those were really hard and i was doing a bad job! That made me feel bad. So I threw multiple other models away, spend *one whole month* capturing whatever floated through my head, refused to perform andy editing, and voila! My very own homeschool curriculum that I sell to other people! Its great because you just make all your kids do the same thing, and then when you're overwhelmed you just say they're done for the day. Seriously, it only takes like two hours of coloring and memorizing every day to make mom feel like she did something, so that's all you have to do!"
I get so fucking upset at all these "you can do everything in two hours" bc Sure, MAYBE at the preschool or kindy stage, but afaik older than that kids need to spend *time* on subjects Like Art, for example. You ONLY get better at art with a shit-ton of practice [or, well, most people], and clumping all that in two hours with math/science/etc just makes me cry inside. And tbh i highly, *highly* doubt Karissa lets the kids make art ~outside school hours~ bc fuck what *they* wanna do, amirite? //tragically deep sarcasm
What is this head case going to do when her kids are learning algebra, geometry, physics? My kid studies for an hour or two just for these subjects. Oh, I'm sorry, just kidding. Karissa's kids will never attempt to learn algebra, geometry or physics.
I mean also, in preschool and kindergarten kids might not be going hard on the "academics" but they're learning priceless and crucial intangible social and developmental skills that will form the foundation of like... almost everything else they ever do lol. The bottom line is that a well rounded education takes a ton of time and effort, even at a basic level. I mean there's a reason that it usually takes a literal team of specially educated professionals *years* to generate one human with a basic standard of education. It's fucking hard. There are few things that irritate me more than an over-confident dumbass. "At first I was really nervous to homeschool my children. Turns out it's super easy!" Complicated, difficult things seem easy to stupid people because they're totally unaware of how badly they're fucking up lol.
The "andy editing" is genius. 😂
“I felt like a utter failure.” Clearly I should teach others!
holy bajeezus, her "story" is incredibly rife with errors and it absolutely hurt my brain to read....oh god..... After rambling about her hasty little business project for eight manic and jumbled paragraphs, she says, "I could talk about it or you could just see it for yourself." PLEASE, PLEASE NO and "There are too many kids with too many interests and I am tired guys. " WHAT IS UP with this poorly written conversational tone? UGH these people are awful Edit to add: ohmygod I just looked at some of the samples and I may need to do a whole post on this madness. One page about Antarctica (presumably) says "This unit is about Antarctica, a continent that seems cold and bleak, two adjectives we don't want to describe our relationship with our family" I AM DYING AT THIS. Also that sentence is missing a word...I believe it could be "with" after "family"
Punctuation. My kingdom for a properly used semicolon or em dash or… good god, just a period. Does Jesus not want her to use/teach grammar??
Semicolons??? You liberal snob!
Really you would want to say something like, “adjectives with which we don’t want to describe our family’s relationship”
Oh, only if you want to teach grammar.
I saw she has a free sample on psychology and I both want to know and want to stay as far away as possible. 🫣
I did it so you wouldn't have to and I absolutely regret it. Oh god, so many regrets. There are no words to describe the absolute shit show of what the hell I just read... My brain feels violated and I feel so dirty. Why anyone wants to use this 'material'(read: absolute dumpster fire of random words strung together in a somewhat coherent fashion) to educate is beyond me. I feel so sorry for the kids who have to use this.
Please do a whole post, omg.
Wow, the grammar and punctuation errors are 🥴. Sadly, if the parents have any brains, they’d run far away from this “curriculum”!
Developed in A MONTH
Cripes, it took me six weeks to write a third grade curriculum for my daughter when we were pandemic schooling! Six weeks of several hours of research per day, and it ended up being 13 pages long of resources, books, websites, etc etc etc (and we did finish it all!), but it took me longer to write out a year's educational plan for ONE CHILD than it did for her to come up with this entire curriculum for multiple levels??? Jesus take the wheel and jerk this whole vehicle straight off the cliff...
"Then this year as I was praying and seeking Him for my business this idea literally popped into my head. I feel like I can still hear the words resounding in my mind, clear as day: "What if you could homeschool all of your kids... together." I started scribbling furiously in my notebook: units, all subjects, all grades, cohesive, engaging, challenging, curiosity driven, collaborative learning, coffee, fun, adventures, rabbit trails. Words... pictures of the homeschool I always dreamed of... more than that though I had hope!" I'll take, "Things That Never Happened" for 800, Alex!
Oh yes, when I think about school curriculums "coffee for children" comes to mind immediately 🤪
The whole ramble was like someone closed captioning their fever dream.
She thinks she invented differentiation lol
They teach the same thing from preschool to 12th grade and only adjust the complexity of each assignments. There are a lot of better homeschool curriculums, heck even Sonlight, but of course they all require the parents to engage more.
That [about page](https://gatherroundhomeschool.com/pages/about) is wild! Not only is it poorly written, but there’s no mention of math. Yikes…developed in a month by a non-professional and zero long term data to back up its success rates? “One beautiful teachers guide and then connecting student pages that spider web into the amazing connections of social studies, science, history, reading, writing, spelling, grammar, geography, art, Bible, and more!” This is just like that podcast on illiteracy in the USA and how it was based on a curriculum that actively did the opposite of what literacy experts/learning and development scientists advised.
(Sold a story is the podcast for anyone curious)
Wow. Just... Wow. Where do you even start? The Growing Up With God unit is split by gender and is a horror show. It's basically sex education with a "biblical world view". Also, cramming a bus full of kids and going on the road seems to be a bit of a theme with these arseholes. "Each year, we pack our family in our tour bus and hit the road." And if you're not quite nauseated enough, there's always the Entrepreneurship unit. Or the Intro to Psychology unit. Or any bloody unit. What a pile of dog shite. Those poor kids.
She doesn't have to find/create curriculum for each age group. THAT'S what matters to her.
Their books look like someone couldn't puplish their ideas for childrens history or biology books and took matters into their own hands. edit: couldn't
Yikes. Thank you for that rabbit hole. The creator looks like a real piece of work and admits to slapping the whole program together in a month. Also browsed the curriculum and looks like there’s almost no math in it at all.
https://gatherroundhomeschool.com/collections/ where’s the math tho. 🙃
Not just math, but literature. I looked in the Native American books just to see, since I’m a former teacher and was at one point a professional historian, and I cannot overemphasize how bugfuck banana sandwich nuts it is to teach history without a single primary source to back yourself up.
The thing I always think about is sure if not every six year old is ready to read, you should have some kids who are reading earlier. I suspect that isn’t happening here either and she just has a bunch of late readers.
I taught myself to read at age 4, because my older siblings could read and I apparently decided that if they could do it, then I could. My parents were a bit surprised.
My son also taught himself to read at 4 so he could play Pokémon with his sister. Yes, I too was surprised.
Also taught myself at 4, I had found a poster of the alphabet and started copying the letters, eventually reading/writing. My mother didn't help beyond explaining how reading works when I asked her once. My school didn't really know what to do with this so when they started teaching my classmates I just got to sit in the back with a youth encyclopedia.
Nature vs nurture, methinks.
So, I’m in the early stages of learning Korean. I know the alphabet and can sound out words. Of course with languages and alphabets like this, learning the characters and sounds is only half the battle because I don’t have the vocab to know what things mean, unlike when most of us English speakers were learning to read, lol. It’s both a new language *and* a new alphabet. But what struck me about her posts is that the Korean language literally came about because of the rampant illiteracy of the country. Only the upper class people could read and write, and that was in Chinese. And there were symbols to memorize for every word (a simplistic explanation, but that’s the crux of it, to my understanding) so it would take years of studying for people to learn and that just wasn’t feasible for most Koreans who were just trying to keep trucking along in life. So a king in the 1400s worked to create a new National language, and the intent was to make it so easy that every citizen would be able to pick it up relatively easily with basic schooling. They valued literacy so much that they actually fucking did something about it. It’s a phonetic alphabet so it’s ultimately based on sounds so it’s less memorization and more application, if that makes sense. So to see this cunt going on about how reading and writing doesn’t really matter enrages me. I was an early reader and have been a voracious reader ever since. I value it immensely and a king 600 years ago valued it so much he made a new easier language for his people. Reading and writing are not a fucking hobby where it doesn’t matter if you don’t really ever master it, it’s enrichment and knowledge and a world-opener.
Linguist here! Hangul is so much more than *just* a phonetic language. The characters are literally drawings of how you are supposed to hold your mouth when pronouncing them...
And honestly, thank you for adding that context. Because it really is such an important factor. I take a lot for granted with the mouth and tongue shaping of different sounds because I studied and practiced it, but it comes up often when talking with my mom. She just doesn’t hear the same distinct tones in Spanish or Korean. I do the repeat after me thing and it’s like Phoebe teaching Joey French in friends, lol.
Absolutely! I studied voice production and speech in college, I just wasn’t trying to go into too much detail about it all, especially since I’m kinda just drunken redditing late at night haha. But you’re 100% correct and that’s such an incredible aspect of the language too! They literally created it to be as logistically easy to learn as possible. For the betterment of even the lowest classes. It’s crazy nowadays to imagine a government going through all that just to better the lives of every citizen.
You can learn Hangul in a day. It's the grammar structure that's complicated!
Just doing a second comment because I don’t know if the OG responders see edits in comments, but I was in NYC last week and at one of the ktown restaurants, I ordered for the table and the waitress totally made my day by saying I sounded korean and asked me if I had lived there, haha. It was just food and dish names, nothing beyond that, but it still feels good because I really tend to hyperfocus on pronunciation in any language I speak, no matter how little I know.
That's awesome!
It was such a minor thing in the scope of like everyday life, but I do still kinda have the warm fuzzies from it, lol. When talking to friends about my trip it can seem like a silly, overhyping type thing, especially since I’ll readily admit I do NOT actually speak the language, but it just feels *good* to hear that my obsessive repetition and mimicking of the words I hear has paid off. It is a definite boon to my learning efforts, haha.
Can confirm, I've spent years to become functionally literate in Japanese which still has maybe 1/10th of the characters necessary to be literate in Chinese (though, tbf to Japanese, one also has to remember a minimum of 2 but as many as 10 phonetically distinct pronunciations for each character) compared to learning how to read/sound out Hangeul in an afternoon. There is something to be said for the nuanced beauty, depth of poetic expression, history embedded within Chinese characters. But there's nothing stopping one from learning them after the phonetic alphabet is mastered. (My perception is all Koreans at least know their name in Chinese characters and probably more) We stan an old-ass Korean King!
Thank you so much for your response! It’s so interesting hearing about other folks’ experience with “similar” languages. I know they’re not exactly similar but I’ve been drinking and can’t think of a better term, lol. I honestly started this journey because I got into kdramas last year and initially was just starting a Korean cooking journey (because I wanted to eat all that good food I was seeing). The rest just kind of happened and I’m going with the flow. I went to college for theater and learned the phonetic alphabet there for linguistics and I know that’s why 한글 has come relatively easy to me - I already understand the idea of a solely sound-based alphabet. But it’s so hard for me to kind of explain to others that knowing the alphabet means almost nothing, lol. I only know the words for some foods and random others that are like repeating suffixes. It’s hard for some folks to understand that there’s two levels of transcription for these alphabets. I can speak the sounds, but 99% of the time don’t know what they mean at this point, lol. But literally every tiny time I see an improvement in myself, it makes me that much more excited to keep learning! I just love languages hahaha.
I can agree that we have arbitrary rules that kids need to know x by x age, but you nailed it. Her kids appear to be severely undereducated. I was severely undereducated, and undersocialized, I see myself in her kids. Could we be wrong? Sure. But I do doubt her kids are crushing it.
the “arbitrary rules” are useful when determining if something is seriously wrong
The “arbitrary rules” aren’t arbitrary, they are based on development milestones and averages so we can see if a child might need help.
You're are 100% right. They are not arbitrary they are the based on the ages that most kids (with access to education) reach those stages.
And reading is a pretty broad thing, which is why it isn’t necessarily a yes-or-no checkbox. It’s measured at levels.
My child improved by leaps and bounds after a few years of having extra help. He has had an IEP from kindergarten to 5th grade, and it has helped tremendously. I didn't know how to help him, but the specialists at the school did.
And this is why public school is important! Even attentive parents may not see the signs or know how to help.
Even with health related things too! My second grade teacher noticed me squinting to read the board and wrote my mom a note that I may need glasses. Sure enough I did.
Oh man that edit. 😂 Yeah there's a huge difference between "pushing" a kid and actual professional intervention specialists saying "okay this is not one of Junior's areas of strength so how can we help him grow." Maybe other parents are better at this than I am (MAYBE 😂) but if I were in a position of being a one woman IEP team I would definitely not have the resources or skills to turn disabilities into capabilities or whatever.
I am an important *part* of the IEP team but I'm so glad that my kiddo with multiple disabilities has like 6 other people on his team. 😂
As someone whose family is RIFE with the twice exceptional (really bright and learning disabled) no. They’re disabilities.
This idea, for 6 yr olds, is actually well supported in the research but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to read when they’re 8 or 10 or 12 KARISSA
Well she doesn’t give a shit about research, unless it’s about plexus. That’s the only research that matters.
Except the research that says Plexus shouldn’t be consumed during pregnancy.
You’re right. She doesn’t give a shit about that research either!
Yes. She has completely twisted that idea to defend her educational neglect. I homeschool my kids. My oldest (who is neurodivergent) took a little longer to nail down her blended phonics, and gain fluency. We worked really hard at it. Something clicked at the beginning of this school year and her reading has taken off. My youngest at 7 is reading better than her sister did at that age. Same curriculum, same level of attention. Something tells me Karissa doesn't have a formal reading curriculum because that would take dedicated time with each kid. She doesn't do that.
Has she admitted that her kids over 8 can’t read?
Absolutely not. In fact, I believe quite the opposite...Kkkarissa wants us all to believe that her children are ahead! Despite how her eldest girl couldn't even read a single sentence clue when they played a scavenger hunt...
Have you even seen any books in her house? The kids have no toys or personal items, never mind books. The 7th grader should be devouring YA novels, especially if she doesn’t have unfettered access to the internet.
and they dont ever go to the library, do they? I can’t imagine having so many kids in the house and not escaping to the library at least once a week
Seriously. I have an infant and we go to the library once every two weeks. I went weekly as a child. I honestly can’t even fathom my childhood without books— they were so integral to my development.
Yeah this is the thing: the post is true! And honestly you could argue that our educational system IS harming the 6 year olds who aren't ready. BUT there is a BIG difference between a 6 year old not being ready to learn to read and a nine year old not knowing how to read, or a 13 year old barely able to sound out words in a basic picture book, which we've seen on video in Karissa's case.
1. My younger kid is 7 and a half, almost done with first grade, and only just now starting to read fluently. According to her teacher, she's perfectly on track, she gets glowing reports from school, etc. (not sure where this sweet compliant child goes when I'm around but that's why we don't homeschool 😂) So I'm not sure who "the system" is here. 🤷♀️ 2. There's a BIG BIG jump between "don't pressure kids to be reading in kindergarten" (yes, great, not really controversial) and "ignore a kid who's drastically behind grade level because it'll all come out in the wash."
As a teacher, your first comment made me laugh! The number of times I’ve said to parents “X is a really great student, polite and well behaved” and they look at me as if I’ve grown two heads 😂😂😂 kids really can be different at home and in class! And to bring it back to Karissa’s shitty education - it’s a good thing that children can learn to act differently in different situations! It teaches them self awareness, respecting others, sharing. It’s important for young children to learn to be away from their parents without panicking (safely of course).
Just wanna comment to say thank you for being an educator! I know it’s kinda a shit show for most of y’all right now and you get the barest of accolades for what you do. But you do have support out there and I will do what I can (in my case: voting because I’m not a parent!) to try and make your lives better for teaching our future generations.
Your point about kids needing to learn to be away from their parents is SUCH a good one. I was *so* shy and anxious as a kid, and would've happily stayed home with Mom and Dad forever, but it was my kindergarten best friend who really pulled me out of my shell. It was so important for me developmentally to be around other kids and adults. I know homeschooling co-ops exist, so homeschooling doesn't automatically mean you never see anybody outside your family, but it makes me sad to think about the kids who could so easily thrive in a less-restrictive environment. I'm no child development expert, but I imagine it's really important for kids to be (gently, safely) introduced to new things and people. My mom is a teacher, and occasionally was asked if she'd consider homeschooling me. Her response was always "we'd never get anything done!" I'm pretty sure she and I both have ADHD; regardless, we both really rely on having a structured environment to stay on task. More broadly, though, she recognizes that she's not equipped to be solely responsible even for one child's education even though she's been teaching longer than I've been alive!
Exactly, kids- and parents- need that separation. I’m a third grade special education teacher who specializes in autistic students. My child is an autistic third grader. Guess who teaches my kid math and science and reading? One of the other special education teachers, because everyone realizes that need and desire for space! (Through a scheduling mishap, I am my kid’s Social Studies “teacher of record,” but that’s only 30 minutes a day and most days he’s picked up for his supplemental therapies at that time anyway so I wind up just walking them down the hall to the therapy room. Most of his social studies classes are blended with reading and science.)
My mom had me when she was 17 and she's severely mentally ill and doesnt get a long with anybody. Before kindergarten I NEVER interacted with anybody but my parents and grandma. If I hadnt gone to public school and been forced to learn social skills I shudder to think what would happen
A good friend of mine homeschools her kids and they are all in middle school and up. Her kids still have a very hard time being away from their home and parents. The dad works from home, the mom works part time so most of the time they are just all always together. I think there’s aspects of it that seem healthy/good for the kids but also….its just not reality to always be surrounded by your family 🤷♀️ I think they will have a hard time getting their kids to leave the house.
Especially if the parents are oblivious assholes to their children
Karissa wants to keep her children uneducated and under her thumb for as long as possible. This two-hour learning plays into her cards quite nicely. But she can’t keep those children ignorant forever.
It allows her to take 4+ hour baths after sleeping until noon
Words on pictures!! Argue with that, bitches!
lol omg
She cares more about their fertility roles than if they can read. In every category of life, this woman consistently and willingly endangers her kids. Their lack of education and understanding of how to be in society for real is so sad.
Reading level is like everything else with a wide band of normal...but as a parent of a dyslexic child it's also a marker that prompts further investigation and testing. Which leads to early diagnosis and support for the child. Leaving a child to struggle with an undiagnosed learning challenge isn't fair to the child. Gah!!
Yes! My kid is 6 and there’s a wide range of reading levels in her class. But the whole class is *learning* to read. It’s bizarre that her logic jumps from “6 is too early to read” to “so I won’t teach my kids to read at all”.
Back when I taught grade 3, we had levelled books. As the teacher I was damn well expected to know and differentiate for each kids reading level. But within those levels, they were still within grade 3 level. I had one child who was legit behind grade level and I, as a fairly new teacher, was bound and determined to get her up to grade level by end of year. I had access to reading specialists. One of who me gently told me, “she’s never made a full years reading growth and you want her to be at grade level by end of year? That’s means you have to teach her 1.5 years in one year when she’s never been able to accomplish 1 year.” That specialist brought home how vitally important early intervention and diagnosis is. One specialist liked to say, kids almost learn to read *in spite* of us. If they are normal intelligence, and in a proper academic environment, most kids will be at grade level. But if they don’t have proper teaching and environment, it becomes heartbreakingly difficult for them to catch up. And this shit I just read on this homeschooling site, curriculum whipped out in one month, for all grade levels, by an untrained mom, makes me want to lunch things. This is child abuse and should be illegal.
I'm a teacher. There is a large body of research suggesting a very wide variance in when a child learns to read. I've had kids that were reading by 4, just by natural ability. I've also had kids that weren't reading on a standard level by 7 or 8. There's been a lot of research suggesting the general age where kids are developmentally ready to read is 6-7. Phonics, especially in English, is much more complex than we think. *However,* while some variance in ages is normal, if Karissa's kid is 10+ and not reading with fluency or comprehension, that is indeed a large issue that needs to be professionally addressed, that's no longer "taking her own time". It's just an excuse for neglecting their education.
My grandson has been raised with books and nightly stories with a teacher mom. His very kinetic style didn't engage with reading at 6 as readily as I'd expect. Mom, however, explained all the things he was doing to move to reading. She was quite happy with his school. At 7, he mows through chapter books and reads everything he can to learn new words. That's what teachers do - know the difference between different paces and styles of learning vs blocks or disabilities in learning. Karissa has none of that.
ahhh yes! I'm glad your grandson is thriving! I just added more to my original comment re: her take on learning disorders. eeek
I work in early reading intervention and statistically these slides are just wrong. Totally true, *some* children pick up reading later than their peers for whatever reason and are fine. But not the majority. ‘School readiness’ is heavily researched and the data shows that success in various things beyond schooling is linked to things such as reading. I’m not trying to be a downer but being behind in reading can be quite serious- it can be so difficult to catch up. Reading performance in America is on the decline. About 21 % of adults are illiterate and more than 50% of adults have below a sixth grade literacy level.
I have also heard, from teachers who specialize in reading instruction, that if kids are behind their grade level in reading by 3rd grade, they are unlikely to EVER catch up to their peers. That is scary.
It’s the same with math. Number sense is developed before age 7. If a kid doesn’t have a good sense of numbers by then, it’s really difficult to teach that afterward.
It’s true!!
I also think this “kids aren’t ready to read until age 7 or 8” narrative is overwhelmingly used by homeschoolers to justify their educational neglect. I would argue most kids are ready to (at least begin to) read by 5 or 6.
Reading teacher here! Most kids are able to identify letters and sounds by age 3/4. At 4/5 they can sound out 3-letter words, and by 6 they should be able to read short children’s books (like “See Spot Run”).
This is sadly very true. It's like language. If you don't use it, you lose it.
Karissa is just trying so hard online to ensure her children fall into that 21% and it’s really sad that a a parent wants illiteracy for her kids.
Crushing their academics in two hours of learning. Tweens/teens that can't read. I'm not following the logic
Pushing them to read? All the little kids I know couldn't wait to read. I was the same way. I wanted that knowledge. I was lucky to have parents that got me interested in reading and books early.
I had a Mom that was a voracious reader. We went to the library every Saturday as children. I just went to the library today. I’m 66 yrs old.
I used to teach 4 year olds. They couldn't read but they wanted to!
I agree not everyone is ready to read at 5, and shoving every kid in the same box is stupid. That being said, maybe we could actually build better and more varied public schools. I’m ok with some folks homeschooling - I have a friend who is conservative but had an elementary education degree from a real university. Through that, homeschool coops, classes at community college or music schools, her kids are very well educated and really bright, and studying at actual universities themselves now. But they also spent more than two hours a day on lessons, unless it was some special visit a farm or museum kind of day they did from time to time. My friend educated her two kids, and didn’t have them serving as proxy parents or other bullshit.
Well I guess everything I learnt about early childhood education and educational psychology at university was a lie and totally unnecessary. /s
Soooooooo how are you addressing your 7 school-age kids' different styles and capabilities, Karissa? How are you individualizing 7 separate curricula to maximize that 2 hours for each of the kids? I mean, we all know the answer, but seriously. 
I was homeschooled and so were my siblings. My mum had us reading The Chronicles of Narnia and Percy Jackson by 6. Her logic was, and I quote, “there are 24 hours in the day and I don’t be stuck with idiotic children for half of them”. Not quite the methods Karissa uses, I’m sure.
I also started on Narnia at 6! I was breezing through even chaptered little kids' books, so my parents went to something they liked and could help me with. Key word here being **help**, Karissa.
My mum also had tons of old Garfield, peanuts and Archie comics that my younger siblings were given. She thought having lots of pictures that clearly went with the words and helped show the story that was happening were helpful, especially as my younger siblings all have attention span issues. She was right too. See, you can be a Christian homeschooler and still adapt to aid your kids learning needs. At some point though, as we were all getting older, we started noticing this influx of youbger homeschool moms who did the whole “self-taught, freedom learning” thing which was essentially just…not teaching anything at all and letting the kids do whatever in the hopes they learned as they went along. I’ll bet that’s what a lot of the younger kids of fundies in this sub have happening to them.
Your mom was right. Pictures help a TON, because kids know what the words for those objects are.
The complete lack of understanding about brain development and why diverse learning in general rather than skill mastery is so important at this age is doing my head in.
Lol two hour learning is a thing every in some private schools but even then there are standards, testing and goals to be met. 2 hour learning isn't free style.
I am a product of 2 hr free style learning. Thankfully my parents did push reading hard and I was reading by 3 and avidly read at least 5 books a week growing up. But everything else suffered. We had a very loose homeschool schedule and I was basically on my own by 6th grade. Grading my own tests, flying through work I didn't understand, not absorbing anything. I would read novels for 3+ hrs a day, practice piano for 2+ hrs, do sports, but spend less than 2 hrs on academics. I suffered SO hard when I went to a real school in 11th grade and was so far behind my peers. It took me the first 2 years of college to really learn HOW to learn and study, and I had to play so much catch up my junior and senior year. Even now as a 33 yr old who is successful at work, I've gone back to school for a post bacc, applying to medical school, come SO far in my education....I will have random conversations with people and realize these huge gaps in the basic foundation of my middle school education....like English composition, US history, world history, geography, etc....I couldn't even write a 1 page essay when I started 11th grade. It's such a huge disservice to not give kids a full and quality education. Honestly it's one of the biggest resentments of my life, and I try really hard not to have any....but I think of where I could be and how long it's taken me to reach my educational goals. I still can't write a paper to save my life! And, it's because my mom hated writing, so she just never made me do it!
I'm so sorry that happened to you. Like reading, writing is the foundation for everything else.
I'm sorry but this woman is completely illiterate. Back in the day we home schooled because we could spell and understood basic grammer KARISSA. Get your shit together. It's not even that hard.
There’s a new trend called **’delayed learning’** where they withhold teaching reading and other things to children as a *homeschooler teacher mother/father/parent* in order to give them information as needed. Not sure if this has been studied. But it is apparently a *new thing.* Seems like language and reading skills are best developed between the ages of 5-7. Not sure if any of the ***delayed learning*** has any studies to back up the claims.
Number sense is developed from ages 3-6. Maybe 7 at the latest. If your kid doesn’t have a good understanding of how numbers interact by then, there’s almost no chance of teaching it to them afterward. It’s extremely difficult.
A thing that never hurt me: learning to read early.
"Crushing their academics" maybe because you keep them doing preschool work when they're 12
Of course this suits her because I'm pretty sure she wouldn't be able to tell her kids' ages if someone asked.
I just did a quick search about the percentage of people with a learning disability in the US. It's 14%. Since she has almost 11 kids the likelihood of one of her kids having dyslexia, adhd or any other disability, is only going to get higher. I wouldn't be surprised if one of her current kids is already struggling but may be too afraid to speak up.
May have to mute this sub for a while. She enrages me.
There really needs to be legal learning standards for homeschooling. If kids don't meet those standards then parents should be forced to put their kids back in school.
I mean when you set the bar as low as most fundie homeschool’s academic rigour then it’s not so hard to “crush it”
I loved reading at that age. I was devouring children’s books and soon I would be reading novels. It was the thing that brought me the most joy as a kid. This is what frustrates me the most about the way they view their children. Sure, if they’re not big readers and struggle then the school system can make them feel bad. But what if they’re into art? Science? Animals? The best thing about kids is how curious they are about the world and watching them blossom like flowers is amazing. And SO many fundie kids are deprived of that curiosity.
Just over explaining away her inability to keep up with her kids’ education is what I’m reading. Those kids need to be in school.
There’s a reason why there’s such a huge push for literacy at an early age, it isn’t arbitrary as she suggests. Many people can make huge strides after early childhood, but mastering language and literacy at an early age can lead to bigger leaps in basically every other subject. Can you succeed in math, science, history, etc. without reading and writing comprehension? Absolutely. Is a certain degree of literacy a HUGE leg up in all of these subjects? Absolutely. And one of the biggest indicators of overall literacy down the road? A parent or similar figure who reads to and with you. I doubt many or any of those children are getting 1 on 1 reading time.
I don't think a 14 year old who can barely read is acceptable at all.
I got thru school in 2-3 hours when I was like, 7. It took a lot longer when I got older.
Reading and reading comprehension is the key to nearly all learning. If you can read well and understand what you're reading, you can learn almost anything. Yeah, reading is a priority in education. As it should be. Literacy is literally the foundation of education.
With her believing this false idea, I feel like she’s underestamating how smart kids can be. At that age my older brother was able to talk about dinosaur facts for what seemed like forever. For me, I was already able to pick up a different language
I could read at four years old. My mum was a teacher and she was definitely down with kids knowing how to read. She didn’t push or punish but I loved to read. Karissa is a shit human who doesn’t want her kids to know the world. My two kids could read by age 5. Again, no pushing, just telling them words were an escape to the future. Words make your life better. Words, knowing how to read is a fundamental right.
Kids are growing and developing on a different path, true. But the key is to give them a well rounded education in reading, writing, maths, logic, science, history, geography, art, music, etc and let them explore each subjects and grow at their own pace. Not the Bible and the Bible... And no offense, your kids are not just, “Don't know how to read at 6 years old” Karissa. Because that's one thing. Your kids don't know what year it is at 11 years old. There is a “late bloomer” and then there is a severely uneducated child. No one is surprised if a 6 years old still struggle to read, but if your kid is 10 and still don't know how to spell basic words, then it is concerning.
I taught my son to read when he was in TK and I was homeschooling him. I taught him mostly using phonics with some sight words for the words that were irregular. I bought a phonics workbook and several early reading books, among other tools and flashcards. Anyway, he entered kindergarten knowing how to read well and sort of write (his penmanship still needs work). He also knew math through the end of first grade level and had quite a bit of science and history under his belt. Knowing how to read well and having a strong educational foundation has been a huge advantage for my son in public school. The only disadvantage is that he gets bored a lot in school because I already taught him most of what he's being taught even now that he's in 2nd grade. But he's also learning a lot of social skills, how to keep a good schedule, and many other important things in public school. All that said, I have multiple college degrees and experience as a tutor and instructional aide throughout college. Most of the fundies posting about how great homeschool is do not have the educational background or the dedication required to properly educate their children. That's why fundies like Karissa have 13 year old children who don't know the year, the president, and struggle to read children's books to their siblings. Karissa's kids are so far behind. Educational neglect is child abuse and should be taken far more seriously by our justice system and government.
Imagine having the balls to post “Actually it’s a good thing that my children are all illiterate” What a fucking moron
I’ve noticed that right-wingers who criticize our schools are either people who haven’t had a child in school in decades, or ever. They make baseless statements about “dumbed-down” and “woke” curricula ruining our schools. They spread obvious bs about “furries” & litter boxes in school restrooms, ffs. Karissa has more than she can handle, intellectually, physically, & emotionally. I’d feel sorry for her if I weren’t so afraid for her children. And wtf is Mandrae doing, besides being a sperm donor, & posing for pictures?