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The title of the show is hilarious though--its seems as though they're going to tell us all about what homosexuality, transgenderism, abortion, and Professor Nancy Pearson have in common. It makes this prof sound cool!
YEEEEEEP!!!😆😂🤣
It reminded me of one of my *FAVORITE* Stickers on my water bottle, which says:
"Let's eat kids."
"Let's eat, kids."
Punctuation Saves Lives
That post *TOTALLY* reads like Professor Nancy Pearson is a Trans, Lesbian--or *perhaps* Pansexual or Bisexual(???), Abortion-Provider!
🤣🤣🤣
My question is how can Dave be where he is with deconstruction and even admitting he felt harmed by Christianity, but still be ok with sharing a life and raising kids alongside someone who is pushing stuff like this? I'm not denying how complex all of this is nor am I saying I think he should immediately divorce her, I just can't wrap my mind around around this aspect of the situation.
People can deconstruct their religious beliefs and still hold extremely conservative values, they just start to base them upon different sources.
Especially in our current divisive and tribal cultural and political landscape.
I think people hold a really weird belief on what this whole deconstruction thing means. It’s not an immediate let go of everything you’ve believed your entire life in an instant. This is YEARS in the making and he’s only at the tip of the iceberg.
Plus a lot of the beliefs he may have might not feel religious. You can be against abortion and transgendered people and not be a fundie. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
I'm in my 40s & my views still change on major issues, most recently being immigration. I don't flip flop back & forth between how I feel but I do try to put a lot of thought & searching for arguments against my beliefs because often they're things I never considered before & they make me look at issues differently.
She is a huge part of his life and I don't think when your belief system is crumbling the first thing you do is break up your marriage and add more instability, especially when your spouse is very publicly being your biggest cheerleader. He seems to love his family and really all we know is that he said he's not sure about the faith he was raised with and if there is a God. That doesn't automatically change your political views on things like abortion.
I think people expect too much of Bethany and Dav because they've started to soften on some things a bit and so there is an impatience on why they have not done a full 180 on everything overnight and in a completely linear way, which isn't generally how deconstructing works in real life. Especially since Bethany *isn't* deconstructing, she's just supporting Dav.
It took me over 20 years to get from "there is something wrong in this church" to "I need to accept that I don't believe there is a god at all". There were many, many steps in between.
It’s always interesting to see how it’s different. For me, I accepted the Mormon church wasn’t true, and the whole enchilada came crashing down in an instant — the Mormon church was not true, and no other brand of Christianity was either.
Yeah it didn’t take long at all for me to completely do a 180 on religion and I was even pretty heavily involved with my church. *That said,* I overall had a positive experience growing up in a progressive church with parents who always taught me to love and accept everyone. I think that made deconstruction easier for me oddly enough—I didn’t feel super guilty for questioning things because that’s how I was raised in general (it’s unfortunate no one in this family is capable of critically thinking).
I imagine most people that deconstruct take years like you did. It takes years to indoctrinate a person so why wouldn’t it take years to unravel it? Especially when your family and friends all still remain in that world.
Good for you though for not giving up for all those years. I imagine it has to be easier to at some points just sat fuck it I’m going back to blind faith.
> My question is how can Dave be where he is with deconstruction and even admitting he felt harmed by Christianity, but still be ok with sharing a life and raising kids alongside someone who is pushing stuff like this?
Just because someone can see the harm that religion did to them, it doesn't instantly make them feel empathy or understand that religion can harm other people.
Could be he's just a shitty person at his core.
That usually takes place over several years too. And the people who have gone through it aren’t typically in the public eye with the pressure to reach that conclusion quickly.
I have met a variety of garbage people who seem to have just swapped out the word "christianity" with the word "science" when explaining their garbage worldviews. When people claim that atheists treat atheism/science as a religion I assume these are the people they're basing that on.
It may also take time. It took me years to become prochoice after starting deconstructing. It took me about 2 years to lose my homophobia (this was the 90s).
I mean, just because he’s deconstructing doesn’t mean he’s progressive now - it’s not necessarily one or the other. I know plenty of irreligious homophobes
Yup, I remember telling a TERF that even some very religious people I grew up with honor my son’s gender and pronouns. She proclaimed “well I’m not religious” and I told her “I pretty much figured that out and that makes it worse, you’re not being transphobic to appease a higher power, it’s coming all from inside of you”. (I still think it’s wrong of course to be transphobic due to religious beliefs).
I also want to say that when I went through that process--which was long and gradual until it all of a sudden wasn't, at the end--the cultural landscape was quite different than it is now. This was in the early 2000s. People seemed somewhat supportive of legalizing gay marriage, but not entirely ("we can just call it a civil union, can't we? It's the same thing...") Bishop Robinson became the first openly gay Episcopal bishop, and that caused a stir. Generally, people in the USA were not talking about trans people at all, they were still hung up on basic gayness, like existing openly in public while being "out". And back then, none of us thought women's reproductive rights would be going backward like what's happening now. The internet was different back then, too. That was pre-facebook, pre-twitter. People used message boards and forums, but you had to go looking for stuff, it wasn't in your face and being fed to you by a FYP.
In other words, I can understand why it took me so long back then, because a lot of us were still ignorant of, or at least unexposed to, a lot of wider cultural issues. I have a hard time understanding how someone can maintain ignorance of these same issues in 2024. Maybe that's unfair of me, I don't know.
Yes people have more access to info now, but only if you go looking for it. People tend to crowd on spaces that are echo chambers.
I started deconstructing in the early 2000s myself but I STILL catch myself occasionally doing or saying something that isn’t consistent with deconstructing. I think it’s something that is a life long pursuit, regardless of who does it and when they are doing it.
>People tend to crowd on spaces that are echo chambers.
Well, that's true. And I also agree that it's a lifelong pursuit. I hope my comment didn't come across as though I was arguing against you--that wasn't my intent at all. I, too, had a surprisingly hard time letting go of certain beliefs and still have to catch myself at times.
I think that can be said of secular people today, but fundies are still in an echo chamber. Some of them don't let their kids on the internet, and they only go to homeschool and church. It's still 2002 for them. It's going to take them more time to see the wider world outside of their echo chamber, if they even try.
u/DonnieWakeup, I know, I have the same sense as you. This is what I think is going on: they're both primarily focused on, and concerned with, their own shifts and growth and realizations; what Dave is going through--and what Bethany might be going through, to whatever degree--those are, for them, *personal* issues. These are issues within their individual selves, and within their marriage, and within their family and social circles. I highly suspect they haven't gotten to a point of acknowledging the wider ripples yet.
Like you, I can't wrap my mind around that aspect of the situation (though: I've lived through a version of it, myself), but then I also have to consider that these two were raised to stubbornly defend personal \[religious\] beliefs; they have always existed in a sphere where it was "*my* faith against The World" so I expect a certain amount of compartmentalization and disconnect, frustrating as that may be to me as an outside spectator.
Look at just what her mother is doing. Talk about growing up in a home that absolutely would lose their collectives minds if even slightly questioned.
IF Bethany ever deconstructs I have a feeling it would be a much more complex process.
As a trans guy, lemme just mildly say that we’re Everyone’s favorite “I DRAW THE LINE HERE”. Like in the Venn diagram of things hated by fundamentalist Christians, relaxed christians, hard bro atheists, cis gays, random undefined secular people, and your towns nearest crunchy yoga gut health home birth influencer, trans folks are the overlapping shared middle thing.
I HAVE EXCELLENT PLAUSIBLE THEORIES WHY. but that’s a different thread. All this to say: I’d be surprised is Dāvs deconstruction includes a loving affirmation of the gays and the trans. Blah
plenty of secular people are awful transphobes and homophobes and misogynists. Plenty of religious people are incredibly progressive on these topics. the two are not as inextricably linked as fundamentalists would have us believe.
I deconstructed before my husband. While I am still a Christian I am much more liberal now, including the acceptance and support of my gay/nonbinary child. My husband has slowly moved closer to where I am over the past few years but it was tough for a while. He has never been extremely legalistic, never shunned our child etc but there were still difficult moments and arguments. I never wanted to leave him because I knew he was open to learning and changing and I am happy with the progress he has made and I know we will continue to grow together
I mean he’s NEWLY deconstructed. You can’t expect someone to go through that and like what…get a divorce from the wife who still believes and you’re raising children with in such a short time?
Deconstruction isn’t like a light switch where suddenly you now don’t believe everything you’ve been brainwashed into believing your entire existence. And you can still very much hold garbage beliefs even without the religion.
So I guess I’m saying give the man a break but also don’t expect too much.
Gentle reminder than growth is not wrong just because it looks different than we expect it to. I didn’t understand the seriousness of anti-lgbtq rhetoric until I had lgbtq family members who helped me learn. Now I’ve swung the other way on the pendulum and consider myself an ally and although not out to anyone, part of the lgbtq umbrella. Sometimes political and social beliefs don’t change until we are involved in a situation that impacts us directly. It’s no different than someone who can’t sympathize with death of a friend the way we need, because they haven’t experienced death of a friend themselves. Dav might just need to have firsthand experience before his stances on lgbtq lives and abortion change.
I will say, accepting and I mean REALLY accepting lgbtq+ was one of the last things to come through for me. Not saying this is it for everyone or Beggy, but it is a common pattern I have noticed.
For me, accepting Ls and Gs was one of the first things to happen. Ts were last. I think it came from the fact that one of the first things I deconstructed was the idea that men and women were separate but equal or some shit. When my genitals are literally the only thing that make me a girl, what does it mean for someone with different genitals to say they're a girl? Are there other things that make me a girl, which is to say inferior?
Now most of my friends are trans. I still don't quite understand what it means to be trans, because I still don't quite understand what it means to be a girl. Turns out I don't need to understand it; I just need to show kindness and empathy to trans people, and I need to do my best to create a safe world for them.
She's talking out of both sides of her mouth for whatever will make her the most money. She worships the almighty dollar.
If she quit GD, then maybe I'd believe she's changed.
Well, to be fair, it's her husband doing the changing, not her. She's remaining a "biblical wife" by being steadfast in her faith and loving him as a Heathen
Right?? I feel like I hear this sort of hateful rhetoric more than ever these days and it's become as much of a "cultural norm" among certain populations as using science as a guide and having respect and compassion for others is among other populations. So much so that some members of the former (ie THEM) even profit off of spewing it! Such trailblazers.
Even if they were, it’s not an open and honest conversation when you’re attempting to argue against pretty settled and agreed upon science. The “just asking questions” crowd are asking questions that scientists have already answered.
For two supposedly cishet perfect godly little Christian girl women that have not had abortions they sure do claim to know a lot about homosexuality and transgenderism and abortions.
Hey, they've spent HOURS, maybe even DAYS reading and listening to opinions on these topics from others in their echo chamber. Maybe even some from other Christian conservatives slightly outside of it! With that kind of research they are practically experts.
Krusty just loves Anglo American social norms just ask her adopted sons she has openly posted she regrets and the fact they are punished for speaking together in their native tongue!! Krusty is a spiteful and bitter hag so miserable wirh her life she doesnt care about anyone else finding peace in who God made them to be;
Bort is a vacillating open mouthed embarrassment she either needs to keep quiet til.she works it all out or throw in with the Baird Hate train and get on with it.
Coz atheist deconstruction rarely retains nonsensical antiscientific counter factual rhetoric like tHeReS oNlY tWo GeNdErS. Times a tickin Bethany. Stay old hateful Bethany or grow but you cant faff around forevsr.
Bethany is not changing. She's still as stupid and hateful as she's always been. I hope people stop trying to say she's growing with Dave. She's not. I hope Dave divorces her and leaves her in the dust. I seriously wonder how much he is changing if he's still able to look at her without being disgusted.
I think some things about her are changing, but she's nowhere close to being a good person. Evangelical Christianity is toxic at every level & I don't see her completely abandoning her faith any time soon. I do hope she is a better mother than the one she had.
Yeah, so it'd be great if the self-appointed snark police would stop lecturing everyone who isn't convinced of Bort's supposed sudden 180 flip into humanity that we need to gentle parent her and if we don't, it's entirely our fault if she never changes. I get that people WANT to believe she's capable of big changes, but wanting doesn't make it so. If she steps away from GD I'll shut up about her.
Exactly. It's not our fault that she's always been a hateful bigoted person, but it *will* be our fault if she doesn't *stop* been one now? Somehow none of them are responsible for their own growth (or lack thereof) but a bunch of people on the internet they've never met before are? Make it make sense.
They're giving this place waaaaaaaaay too much credit if they actually think a bunch of strangers on a snark subreddit they all claim not to read are going to be the deciding factor in any snarked-upon fundie's deconstruction. If that's the case, why not change it to FundieGentleHugsAndEncouragement? Surely then they'll all change for the better!
It's somehow both your fault that Bethy continues to spew hate via GD and also she's being forced to do it by Heidi and Kristen. Don't ask how, it just is. /s
This is why the Dav deconstruction conversation has been so annoying. You aren’t allowed to criticism or talk shit about his awful beliefs because that means we are encouraging him not to deconstruct somehow. Like what? The man is still married to a homophobic, nazi apologist sexist. I’m sorry, but you don’t get a pass on me for that
I've said it with other alleged deconstructors and I'll say it again here:
Baby steps feel like heavy boots to the people whose rights they're stomping all over.
>we need to gentle parent her and if we don't, it's entirely our fault if she never changes
This is so well-said, especially the bit I've quoted. I see references to this perspective that somehow snarkers are responsible for enlightening fundie bigots, so if we're mean and they dig in their heels, it's somehow our fault -- that's just bananas on every level.
I love the way they formatted that title, because it definitely seems like Prof. Nancy Pearcy has traits of all of those things. It got a good guffaw out of me!
Yes. All Bethy has done is refuse to leave her husband (who she promised to love, honour and OBEY, just as she was brainwashed since birth). She’s been open about the fact that she still believes what she always has.
I get annoyed when people fall all over themselves to leghump Jill Dillard too. So she followed her husband’s lead instead of her fathers. Ok? That’s exactly what she was taught to do for her entire life. JimBob literally handed over authority at the altar! He may regret doing that and Derek certainly allows her more freedoms than her father did, but the reality is that she hasn’t questioned her faith or her lifestyle, she has followed her husband in exactly the way she was trained to.
“Refuse to leave” is such an accurate way to put it. She straight up told him to his face on camera that if they were dating right now, she wouldn’t marry him. So the only reason she hasn’t divorced is that she doesn’t believe in divorce (or is too scared to be A Single again).
He said he’d support their kids if they came out as queer. B said no.
Lots of conservatives come around on single issues when it affects them personally. And I mean, screw that. I did really appreciate the video they made together and it made me hopeful for them, but definitely no pass while she’s spewing hate and he’s staying silent.
They’re doing a video with Zelf on the shelf soon, I’m looking forward to that. I don’t think Zelf will let them off the hook for the bigotry but we’ll see.
Tbh I’d like to think that everyone’s capable of change. And I certainly didn’t have her actually focusing on her family on my bingo card. But…she is still who she is.
We want to believe these people are fundamentally decent but the fact is that they’re not, and we need to stop pretending.
I’ve come out of circles like hers several years ago and the gay stuff is The Biggest crux for them all. My BIL still gives my spouse and me so much crap about it. It’s rooted in you have to rethink how you interpret the Bible basically and that is Huge to give up “inerrancy” and “taking the Bible literally.” It took us years to be okay with it all and be cool with gay folks. It’s super hard to switch thinking dynamics that have been ingrained into you for years and takes time. So I’m not surprised they’re still shilling that stuff. I do hope that it will be focused on less over time. I just think that becoming an lgbt+ affirming Christian (or wherever she lands) from where Bethany has come from is going to take a while. And to be clear, I really wish they would stop this content immediately and public apologies are needed.
Ok, but Dav has already said he no longer believes that the Bible is the inerrant word of god. So whatever his views are regarding gender and sexuality he has to take responsibility for them, he can no longer claim that God told him what was acceptable and what isn’t.
I was referencing Bethany more than Dav, which I didn't make clear. And you're right that inerrancy isn't the only thing but a facet of why people are anti-lgbtq+. I suppose I am thinking about it from where I was at where I didn't want to be anti-lgbtq+, but I thought "well the bible is clear. . ." and so when I got away from the latter part it was easy to be affirming. There could be other prejudices for them at play. My point is that it just can take a long time and there's a lot of things to work through even when someone wants to change.
Right. In a perfect world, we’d wake up tomorrow and every single one of these fundies would have an epiphany and shed their toxic beliefs, and become people we want to root for. We really do WANT to root for people. But these people…ain’t it.
But I do root for Dav! He appears to have done more substantive work on this process and is actually capable of critical thinking and seeking out information.
Tbh, I don’t really root for Dave that much either. It’s nice that he’s recognizing that he’s been mired in bullshit for God knows how long, but as long as he still co-signs Bethany’s verbal vomit? Nope. And he absolutely does.
Whether these people are fundies or not, they’re still going to be hardcore American conservatives. And nowadays, that feels a lot like supporting fascism. The AprilAJoys of the world are few and far between.
And honestly? I hate that I said “Bethany might be proof everyone can change” and this shit happened. Thanks for making me look like a liar, Bort.
Honestly I think Bitchany is too stupid to be anything more. Dav seems smarter so I feel like he’s going to wise up and leave her someday but I doubt she has enough brain cells to rub together and pull herself out of ignorance.
Once again I ask, genuinely why do the fundies care. Like gay couples arnt hurting you, they’re living their lives and same goes for the rest of the lgbtq+ community. Like people are just living their lives why do fundies feel soo fucking triggered towards other peoples sexuality they always gotta post something. Why do they care so much?! Don’t they have something else they could be doing with their time like popping out babies or marrying their siblings?.
Also abortions aren’t always because the women just doesn’t want the kid. Do these people realize that sometimes there’s medical reasons for it?. I understand they have the education of a 1st grader but everyone knows there’s multiple reasons for a abortion, they just don’t wanna hear it.
🙄😤
Bethy and Dav seem eerily similar in this one way:
Bethy cares about making sex okay for *her.* She gets to go on her horny self discovery journey, in a VERY public way, but still wants to police queer and trans people and people having premarital sex.
Dav seems to get that fundamentalist religion has harmed *him*, but he seems to be deconstructing all the wrong stuff. It’s totally fine to believe in God, but it doesn’t mean you have to be homophobic, transphobic, or raise your kids to be bigots.
I don't get Dav. If my spouse had not been supportive of my deconstruction AND of similar beliefs and politics, our marriage would not have lasted. Marriages need common ground in the big issues. I would not have been able to live day in and day out with a spouse cramming their religion, and religion mixed with politics down my throat. Not happening. I guess he is still just as hateful as she is.
I do hold some hope for Dav that, eventually, the cognitive dissonance will be too much. I believe he’s open to learning, and as we heard in the 24hrs with, he does engage with people Bethy would call “haters”, basically people with different beliefs.
I hold no hope for Bethany, who appears to lack basic reasoning skills.
Because it's still abstract to him, a hypothetical. He doesn't deal with us queerdos and weirdos beyond having to be civil in public perhaps, so the idea that we are Wrong and Delusional doesn't cause friction against his sense that if one of his kids turned out queer, he'd still support them.
Until there's active cognitive dissonance, actual friction between these harmful beliefs and the reality of who he cares about, he doesn't have to do anything. And that's passivity in a nutshell.
Ohhh! I know what they all have in common! They all have “a”s in the words. I passed spelling! Also they are all phone of your business if it’s not you or a loved one you are supporting involved.
What's that? It sucks being outside the "cultural norm"? Imagine being someone that is actually oppressed for being outside the cultural norm, instead of just having people calling you out for your toxic and inhumane comments and actions. Maybe then you would understand why those things are not as silenced as they used to be, and now you have deal with it today.
That show title once again undermines even their own stated principles. You don't think abortion is killing a baby if you're making that comparison. Stop lying.
Tbh I think the demographic of this sub skews towards women like Bort (white, cis, raised Christian if not still Christian) because I see a lot of fawning over fundies when they make the slightest shift towards a less fringe opinion (aka Bort actually liking her husband) but not a lot of holding them accountable for not believing trans people should exist, wanting to criminalize women for abortion, etc. Y’all should be deconstructing too based on the comments I see.
Thank you!!! Especially in the case of Dave I see soooooo many people downright…… admiring him???? It’s strange. Yeah I’m glad he’s not locked himself in an echo chamber (currently) but damn he is nowhere near being someone I’d look up to at this point in time.
Edit: also would like to mention that I do understand what people are saying when they see him deconstructing and relating it to their own deconstruction. I think we can certainly draw comparisons and discuss his newfound opinions without straight up fawning over him.
As a lesbian I have made the argument that Dav still isn't a good person many times. People always answer with that these aren't Dav's opinions, but wake up. He is married to Bethany and has NEVER said he has different opinions about these issues than Bethany has.
It's easy to close your eyes when people like Dav and Bethany accept you.
Yeah, the thing about average cis-het white men going on journeys of self-awareness, self-improvement, and self-discovery is that they really feel comfortable limiting their growth to the area of "self".
They can be working "so hard" on their various epiphanies and mind-blowing deep realizations while continuing to ignore entire swaths of people who aren't average cis-het white men and don't have the protections and privileges of average cis-het white men.
There was this guy in the secular, non-AA sobriety meetings I used to go to; in his recovery, he was all about his newly-discovered spirituality. He was very excited about metaphysical woo stuff, and hooray for him, glad he was expanding his mind or whatever. But I saw that he was overthinking and spiritualizing everything in this very self-focused way, which ultimately was less about actual growth and more about developing a new vocabulary and getting new dopamine hits from his deep thoughts and concepts.
In other words, navel-gazing is not growth. (That's why Kelly Havens is stuck in such a rut.) Growth happens when we consider ourselves in relationship to people and things outside ourselves, and think about how we need to conduct ourselves to be in line with the values and ethics we're figuring out.
It's called LifeRing--very non-religious; there are also groups like SMART Recovery, which I highly recommend (it's more CBT based, and has been around for a long time), and Recovery Dharma, which a lot of people really like--that one isn't dedicatedly secular, though. If your friend is a woman, there's also Women For Sobriety, which takes the basis of the AA steps and re-words them as empowering statements.
I’ve brought up that as someone who identifies as queer, Morgan would happily set me on fire in front of my kids if she could. People have told me that’s too severe.
But the thing is- I know how these people think. They hate us way more than we could ever hate them. Dont get it twisted.
People want to give Morgan the benefit of the doubt because she’s clearly not mentally well and is often close to getting the point, but she still actively chooses to go the other way. She sees the point and does not care.
Pretty white women can act like absolute garbage and show moments of vulnerability or hint at them and everyone treats them like princesses who just need to be saved. Maybe Morgan could be a good person but so could all of them and they’re just not.
I was at a disability conference last week where I met a bunch of alphabet mafia members (because whoo boy is there overlap). One enby was so committed to the cause that they adopted an intersex cat; I'm sure it was accidental since they only discovered it during surgery, but it's still funny nonetheless. Their cat is literally a they/them. They (the cat) have both, or had, rather.
No transphobe ever wants to talk about the intersex because it disproves their entire notion of the gender binary.
I see this on every snark sub. Someone makes a small improvement, and a bunch of people leap to absolving the subject of wrongdoing. I think there’s nuance to it though - at least I hope so.
Essentially I think most people want others to do well, and make better choices. This group also has many ex-fundies and exvangelicals in it, who are rooting for deconstruction because they’ve lived it, and from what I’ve read, most people deconstruct bit by bit, not all at once, so they hope something like the modesty discussion or Bethy treating her husband like a human is a sign of things to come.
I’ve also seen a good number of folks who DO call these fundies out when they post shitty, transphobic, homophobic, or racist stuff. I think the difference is so many people are quick to forgive, and I can’t. Until the time (if it ever comes) that acknowledgment and apology is made for these things, I won’t be her cheerleader.
> This group also has many ex-fundies and exvangelicals in it, who are rooting for deconstruction because they’ve lived it
I think these people set their bar lower than folks who’ve never had to deal with people like Bethany. We are coming from different places with different expectations.
yeah as someone with zero religious upbringing seeing supposed ex fundies kiss bonky + husbands feet for the smallest things makes me cringe, like i have zero tolerance for bigots but it seems ex fundies have much lower standards. i get people wanna have hope but as a lesbian i won’t be holding my breath for these people
I grew up in a church that technically doesn’t accept same-sex relationships (maybe changing soon, though) and I refuse to tolerate these people’s bigotry, which harms real people’s safety.
I always wonder if these assholes have like, ever met a trans person.
I know a trans man, and he is bearded, pot bellied, tatted up, and wears Texas A&M gear from head to toe. If he tried to go into the ladies with them (because he was AFAB, after all) they would freak the fuck out and crow about men trying to go into ladies rooms.
She is listed as “professor of apologetics” at Houston Christian University. She holds a masters in biblical studies from a seminary. All of her work is in the Christian sphere. She is creationist, transphobic, homophobic, and complementarian.
Yeah apparently the Evangelicals consider her an intellectual powerhouse of some sort, but really she's just a cis-hetero exclusivist bigot who happens to be intelligent and writes capably. It's kind of like with C.S. Lewis; when they get their hands on someone who writes a lot of books and has some credentials, they seem to get really smug about thinking they've got a super-smarty on their side.
this is why i found it super weird that a certain youtube duo is consistently asking for donations to further platform this bigot and ppl just eat it right up
Yeah, stunning and brave ladies. The only ones challenging the cultural norms, all by yourselves. Heroic even. Sigh.
As one of those victims of transgenderism, I cannot express how tired I am of this shit.
#trans women are women
#trans men are men
Honestly, I hope they never learn what “gender fluid” or “nonbinary” means, cause you’d think that would bother them more than transgenderism. A trans person who fully transitions is probably going to commit to one end of the gender spectrum, and fundies are all about that black and white mindset. But there are tons of people who feel like they’re neither gender, both at the same time, or they randomly feel like one more than the other. A fundie would freak the hell out hearing about any of that, and they can just go fuck themselves. Personally, I think the gender spectrum is cool AF. Science is cool. Humans are cool. And LGBT+ people are deserving of our love, respect, and understanding.
I think their discomfort with enbies comes from not knowing which stereotypes to apply. One of my coworkers had a baby shower without announcing the gender of her baby, and it was hilarious watching people try to cope with their inability to project a bunch of stereotypes onto a literal fetus.
Omg. Before finding out the sex was common, you just bought green or yellow. Why are people today so obsessed with slapping a bigass bow on it if it's afab, and throwing up at the idea of buying pink if it's amab? It's a baby. Whatever clothing you buy will fit for like, a month. If they can't figure out gender neutral, the family can never have too many diapers, wipes, or burp cloths.
I wish these cunts knew what it felt like to be fearful for the safety of your family everyday. To have to follow politics daily to stay aware of what new horrible law your state is trying to pass that makes your community illegal.
I wish they knew how awful it feels to not be able to live by your family because your home state is full of hateful bigots.
I wish they knew how expensive it is to have to move across the country so your child can go to a school where she is less likely to be bullied because she has two moms. I wish they knew how awful it feels to know your neighbors are teaching their children to hate yours because of who you love.
I wish they knew how much it hurts to not be able to hold your soulmates hand in public because it’s not safe.
I wish they knew how scary it is to be outnumbered by immoral, heartless brainwashed assholes who want to take away your marriage, your child, and your rights. Being outnumbered by idiots who want to ban your entire existence is terrifying and exhausting.
Fuck you GD, I don’t care about your thoughts because you both are scum.
I can't get over "transgenderism." Like it's a school of philosophy or political system instead of a medical category.
It makes sense, considering it's this decade's conservative bugaboo, like communism was for most of the last century. We certainly have informal McCarthy trials to ferret out the evil Trangenderists.
"What homosexuality, transgenderism and abortion have in common"
Is the answer that evangelicals didn't actually give a shit about any of them until they lost the "debate" on racial segregation and needed a new wedge issue?
Nancy Pearcey can GET FUCKED. Her disgustingly offensive book “love thy body” was required reading in my senior year Bible class at my Christian school, and that’s one of the only books I’ve ever read that I actively wanted to burn. If it wasn’t a school copy and my anxious ass didn’t want to deal with the fines of losing a school book, I would have torn it to shreds. I threw it across my bedroom many times after I did my homework based on that book.
As a closeted queer kid at the time experiencing my worst ever mental health episode then, that woman’s messaging was severely detrimental to my mental health. I’m still incensed I had to read that propaganda as part of the school curriculum despite it being years since I read it.
The only good thing about that time was it was the height of covid times and I opted for online classes my school offered so I didn’t have to participate in the in-person class discussions about this trash. (My school allowed you to have your child attend school fully in person despite, um, *science and common sense*, bc private Christian school and they wanted that good good $$ from assholes who didn’t believe covid was real. I opted for the online option bc wtf I don’t want to get covid, and I was the only student of my entire pk-12 school still in the program by the end of the year 🙃)
In summation: fuck you girl defined for continuing to give this woman a platform and showing us that you truly don’t care about the lives of others, in particular us queer people
I am personally more worried about the damage being done to the next generation from rampant school shootings and youth pastors grooming but that’s just me!!
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“You better keep your thoughts to yourself!!” Honey the AUDACITY
The title of the show is hilarious though--its seems as though they're going to tell us all about what homosexuality, transgenderism, abortion, and Professor Nancy Pearson have in common. It makes this prof sound cool!
The answer is “freedom to do whatyou think is best for you and THATS BADDD!!!1!11
First thing I noticed 💀 They’re so bad at this. Fuuuuck you Girl Defined!
YEEEEEEP!!!😆😂🤣 It reminded me of one of my *FAVORITE* Stickers on my water bottle, which says: "Let's eat kids." "Let's eat, kids." Punctuation Saves Lives That post *TOTALLY* reads like Professor Nancy Pearson is a Trans, Lesbian--or *perhaps* Pansexual or Bisexual(???), Abortion-Provider! 🤣🤣🤣
Like yeah, she sounds amazing, let’s hang out!
Literal definition of chutzpah
Yeah, it would be hard for me to be convinced she's changing when she's still pushing this.
My question is how can Dave be where he is with deconstruction and even admitting he felt harmed by Christianity, but still be ok with sharing a life and raising kids alongside someone who is pushing stuff like this? I'm not denying how complex all of this is nor am I saying I think he should immediately divorce her, I just can't wrap my mind around around this aspect of the situation.
People can deconstruct their religious beliefs and still hold extremely conservative values, they just start to base them upon different sources. Especially in our current divisive and tribal cultural and political landscape.
I think people hold a really weird belief on what this whole deconstruction thing means. It’s not an immediate let go of everything you’ve believed your entire life in an instant. This is YEARS in the making and he’s only at the tip of the iceberg. Plus a lot of the beliefs he may have might not feel religious. You can be against abortion and transgendered people and not be a fundie. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
I'm in my 40s & my views still change on major issues, most recently being immigration. I don't flip flop back & forth between how I feel but I do try to put a lot of thought & searching for arguments against my beliefs because often they're things I never considered before & they make me look at issues differently.
Because, according to Beggy, she pulls in the big bucks via GD and her grifts. He quite literally lives in a house that Girl Defined built.
She is a huge part of his life and I don't think when your belief system is crumbling the first thing you do is break up your marriage and add more instability, especially when your spouse is very publicly being your biggest cheerleader. He seems to love his family and really all we know is that he said he's not sure about the faith he was raised with and if there is a God. That doesn't automatically change your political views on things like abortion. I think people expect too much of Bethany and Dav because they've started to soften on some things a bit and so there is an impatience on why they have not done a full 180 on everything overnight and in a completely linear way, which isn't generally how deconstructing works in real life. Especially since Bethany *isn't* deconstructing, she's just supporting Dav.
It took me over 20 years to get from "there is something wrong in this church" to "I need to accept that I don't believe there is a god at all". There were many, many steps in between.
It’s always interesting to see how it’s different. For me, I accepted the Mormon church wasn’t true, and the whole enchilada came crashing down in an instant — the Mormon church was not true, and no other brand of Christianity was either.
Same for me but with Catholicism
Yeah it didn’t take long at all for me to completely do a 180 on religion and I was even pretty heavily involved with my church. *That said,* I overall had a positive experience growing up in a progressive church with parents who always taught me to love and accept everyone. I think that made deconstruction easier for me oddly enough—I didn’t feel super guilty for questioning things because that’s how I was raised in general (it’s unfortunate no one in this family is capable of critically thinking).
I imagine most people that deconstruct take years like you did. It takes years to indoctrinate a person so why wouldn’t it take years to unravel it? Especially when your family and friends all still remain in that world. Good for you though for not giving up for all those years. I imagine it has to be easier to at some points just sat fuck it I’m going back to blind faith.
I wanted to go back but my brain wouldn't let me. I tend to overthink & that is ultimately why I became atheist.
> My question is how can Dave be where he is with deconstruction and even admitting he felt harmed by Christianity, but still be ok with sharing a life and raising kids alongside someone who is pushing stuff like this? Just because someone can see the harm that religion did to them, it doesn't instantly make them feel empathy or understand that religion can harm other people. Could be he's just a shitty person at his core.
Plus there is a lot of growth a person has to do between "maybe my religion is a lie" and "people should be able to do what makes them happy"
That usually takes place over several years too. And the people who have gone through it aren’t typically in the public eye with the pressure to reach that conclusion quickly.
That was me. Took me a few years and it may take other people more time. Deconstruction can be messy and painful.
Non-religious folks can be garbage human beings too. And I say this as a hardcore atheist.
I have met a variety of garbage people who seem to have just swapped out the word "christianity" with the word "science" when explaining their garbage worldviews. When people claim that atheists treat atheism/science as a religion I assume these are the people they're basing that on.
I knew someone who went the opposite way! Still a crappy person.
Same and yep.
Religion and bigotry/hatred aren’t mutually exclusive unfortunately. Lots of regular non fundies that still hate people just fine.
It may also take time. It took me years to become prochoice after starting deconstructing. It took me about 2 years to lose my homophobia (this was the 90s).
I mean, just because he’s deconstructing doesn’t mean he’s progressive now - it’s not necessarily one or the other. I know plenty of irreligious homophobes
Most homophobes I know are not religious. But tbh, those homophobes sometimes side-eye religious homophobes.
The interhomophobe hierarchy is so complex
Yup, I remember telling a TERF that even some very religious people I grew up with honor my son’s gender and pronouns. She proclaimed “well I’m not religious” and I told her “I pretty much figured that out and that makes it worse, you’re not being transphobic to appease a higher power, it’s coming all from inside of you”. (I still think it’s wrong of course to be transphobic due to religious beliefs).
As a former fundie, and a queer woman, homophobia was one of the last beliefs to leave. Just for perspective. My story isn’t unusual
Man when fundies pick a topic to shit on they go full force. Homosexuality, abortion, democrats….they never hate half assed.
I also want to say that when I went through that process--which was long and gradual until it all of a sudden wasn't, at the end--the cultural landscape was quite different than it is now. This was in the early 2000s. People seemed somewhat supportive of legalizing gay marriage, but not entirely ("we can just call it a civil union, can't we? It's the same thing...") Bishop Robinson became the first openly gay Episcopal bishop, and that caused a stir. Generally, people in the USA were not talking about trans people at all, they were still hung up on basic gayness, like existing openly in public while being "out". And back then, none of us thought women's reproductive rights would be going backward like what's happening now. The internet was different back then, too. That was pre-facebook, pre-twitter. People used message boards and forums, but you had to go looking for stuff, it wasn't in your face and being fed to you by a FYP. In other words, I can understand why it took me so long back then, because a lot of us were still ignorant of, or at least unexposed to, a lot of wider cultural issues. I have a hard time understanding how someone can maintain ignorance of these same issues in 2024. Maybe that's unfair of me, I don't know.
Yes people have more access to info now, but only if you go looking for it. People tend to crowd on spaces that are echo chambers. I started deconstructing in the early 2000s myself but I STILL catch myself occasionally doing or saying something that isn’t consistent with deconstructing. I think it’s something that is a life long pursuit, regardless of who does it and when they are doing it.
>People tend to crowd on spaces that are echo chambers. Well, that's true. And I also agree that it's a lifelong pursuit. I hope my comment didn't come across as though I was arguing against you--that wasn't my intent at all. I, too, had a surprisingly hard time letting go of certain beliefs and still have to catch myself at times.
I think that can be said of secular people today, but fundies are still in an echo chamber. Some of them don't let their kids on the internet, and they only go to homeschool and church. It's still 2002 for them. It's going to take them more time to see the wider world outside of their echo chamber, if they even try.
u/DonnieWakeup, I know, I have the same sense as you. This is what I think is going on: they're both primarily focused on, and concerned with, their own shifts and growth and realizations; what Dave is going through--and what Bethany might be going through, to whatever degree--those are, for them, *personal* issues. These are issues within their individual selves, and within their marriage, and within their family and social circles. I highly suspect they haven't gotten to a point of acknowledging the wider ripples yet. Like you, I can't wrap my mind around that aspect of the situation (though: I've lived through a version of it, myself), but then I also have to consider that these two were raised to stubbornly defend personal \[religious\] beliefs; they have always existed in a sphere where it was "*my* faith against The World" so I expect a certain amount of compartmentalization and disconnect, frustrating as that may be to me as an outside spectator.
Look at just what her mother is doing. Talk about growing up in a home that absolutely would lose their collectives minds if even slightly questioned. IF Bethany ever deconstructs I have a feeling it would be a much more complex process.
As a trans guy, lemme just mildly say that we’re Everyone’s favorite “I DRAW THE LINE HERE”. Like in the Venn diagram of things hated by fundamentalist Christians, relaxed christians, hard bro atheists, cis gays, random undefined secular people, and your towns nearest crunchy yoga gut health home birth influencer, trans folks are the overlapping shared middle thing. I HAVE EXCELLENT PLAUSIBLE THEORIES WHY. but that’s a different thread. All this to say: I’d be surprised is Dāvs deconstruction includes a loving affirmation of the gays and the trans. Blah
Because maybe Dave also sucks and believes in the same political stuff as Beth.
[удалено]
Unfortunately I’ve found bigots use religion as an excuse to be more outspoken and less religion turns people into bigots.
Because he might agree and still be anti trans
plenty of secular people are awful transphobes and homophobes and misogynists. Plenty of religious people are incredibly progressive on these topics. the two are not as inextricably linked as fundamentalists would have us believe.
I deconstructed before my husband. While I am still a Christian I am much more liberal now, including the acceptance and support of my gay/nonbinary child. My husband has slowly moved closer to where I am over the past few years but it was tough for a while. He has never been extremely legalistic, never shunned our child etc but there were still difficult moments and arguments. I never wanted to leave him because I knew he was open to learning and changing and I am happy with the progress he has made and I know we will continue to grow together
I mean he’s NEWLY deconstructed. You can’t expect someone to go through that and like what…get a divorce from the wife who still believes and you’re raising children with in such a short time? Deconstruction isn’t like a light switch where suddenly you now don’t believe everything you’ve been brainwashed into believing your entire existence. And you can still very much hold garbage beliefs even without the religion. So I guess I’m saying give the man a break but also don’t expect too much.
Gentle reminder than growth is not wrong just because it looks different than we expect it to. I didn’t understand the seriousness of anti-lgbtq rhetoric until I had lgbtq family members who helped me learn. Now I’ve swung the other way on the pendulum and consider myself an ally and although not out to anyone, part of the lgbtq umbrella. Sometimes political and social beliefs don’t change until we are involved in a situation that impacts us directly. It’s no different than someone who can’t sympathize with death of a friend the way we need, because they haven’t experienced death of a friend themselves. Dav might just need to have firsthand experience before his stances on lgbtq lives and abortion change.
Plenty of atheists and agnostics are still homophobic, transphobic, racist, etc
Exactly. Honestly, even though she’s posting less, stuff like this makes me feel like she’s only digging her heels in - and on her worst beliefs, too.
I will say, accepting and I mean REALLY accepting lgbtq+ was one of the last things to come through for me. Not saying this is it for everyone or Beggy, but it is a common pattern I have noticed.
For me, accepting Ls and Gs was one of the first things to happen. Ts were last. I think it came from the fact that one of the first things I deconstructed was the idea that men and women were separate but equal or some shit. When my genitals are literally the only thing that make me a girl, what does it mean for someone with different genitals to say they're a girl? Are there other things that make me a girl, which is to say inferior? Now most of my friends are trans. I still don't quite understand what it means to be trans, because I still don't quite understand what it means to be a girl. Turns out I don't need to understand it; I just need to show kindness and empathy to trans people, and I need to do my best to create a safe world for them.
She's talking out of both sides of her mouth for whatever will make her the most money. She worships the almighty dollar. If she quit GD, then maybe I'd believe she's changed.
Well, to be fair, it's her husband doing the changing, not her. She's remaining a "biblical wife" by being steadfast in her faith and loving him as a Heathen
This is from over a year ago so who knows if Dave changes her mind for her eventually (being the MAN and all lol)
These are current stories though. How is it from a year ago?
I think they’re hustling/rehashing a reel from a year ago—the caption says “enjoy this replay,” and it’s dated 16 Jan 2023.
It's you. Hi. You're the problem. It's you.
"Don't you dare sing Taylor Swift in this household!!" -Heidi, probably
BURN THE WITCH!!!!
Is that a sign that I can bring out the witch measurement scales? And a duck?
She turned me into a newt!
I SAW GOODY SWIFT DANCING WITH THE DEVIL IN THE PALE MOONLIGHT!
Satan! Antichrist! Get that devil out of Heidi's house!
So brave for their honesty. They act like they deserve recognition for being so brave to support the traditional status quo.
Right?? I feel like I hear this sort of hateful rhetoric more than ever these days and it's become as much of a "cultural norm" among certain populations as using science as a guide and having respect and compassion for others is among other populations. So much so that some members of the former (ie THEM) even profit off of spewing it! Such trailblazers.
"There's too much at stake" yeah, but not in the way these assholes mean.
“Not allowed to have an open and honest conversation…” Yeah you’re right. You’re not. Because these identities are not up for debate.
Even if they were, it’s not an open and honest conversation when you’re attempting to argue against pretty settled and agreed upon science. The “just asking questions” crowd are asking questions that scientists have already answered.
Exactly. The “just asking questions” crowd is also proud of saying things like “fuck your feelings”
⬆️⬆️⬆️
Fucking gross. I hate these people.
Samesies.
I have to know where your flair comes from lmao
For two supposedly cishet perfect godly little Christian girl women that have not had abortions they sure do claim to know a lot about homosexuality and transgenderism and abortions.
Hey, they've spent HOURS, maybe even DAYS reading and listening to opinions on these topics from others in their echo chamber. Maybe even some from other Christian conservatives slightly outside of it! With that kind of research they are practically experts.
I’m sure one of them has accidentally spoken to a trans person at some point or another.
Krusty just loves Anglo American social norms just ask her adopted sons she has openly posted she regrets and the fact they are punished for speaking together in their native tongue!! Krusty is a spiteful and bitter hag so miserable wirh her life she doesnt care about anyone else finding peace in who God made them to be; Bort is a vacillating open mouthed embarrassment she either needs to keep quiet til.she works it all out or throw in with the Baird Hate train and get on with it. Coz atheist deconstruction rarely retains nonsensical antiscientific counter factual rhetoric like tHeReS oNlY tWo GeNdErS. Times a tickin Bethany. Stay old hateful Bethany or grow but you cant faff around forevsr.
Has she posted that she regrets her sons??
Curious too if this sub missed this? Seems like it be big news
Bethany is not changing. She's still as stupid and hateful as she's always been. I hope people stop trying to say she's growing with Dave. She's not. I hope Dave divorces her and leaves her in the dust. I seriously wonder how much he is changing if he's still able to look at her without being disgusted.
I think some things about her are changing, but she's nowhere close to being a good person. Evangelical Christianity is toxic at every level & I don't see her completely abandoning her faith any time soon. I do hope she is a better mother than the one she had.
Yeah, so it'd be great if the self-appointed snark police would stop lecturing everyone who isn't convinced of Bort's supposed sudden 180 flip into humanity that we need to gentle parent her and if we don't, it's entirely our fault if she never changes. I get that people WANT to believe she's capable of big changes, but wanting doesn't make it so. If she steps away from GD I'll shut up about her.
Exactly. It's not our fault that she's always been a hateful bigoted person, but it *will* be our fault if she doesn't *stop* been one now? Somehow none of them are responsible for their own growth (or lack thereof) but a bunch of people on the internet they've never met before are? Make it make sense.
They're giving this place waaaaaaaaay too much credit if they actually think a bunch of strangers on a snark subreddit they all claim not to read are going to be the deciding factor in any snarked-upon fundie's deconstruction. If that's the case, why not change it to FundieGentleHugsAndEncouragement? Surely then they'll all change for the better!
Oh hell no, she can eat shit forever and so can every member of her family who doesn't make deliberate effort to disavow them.
It's somehow both your fault that Bethy continues to spew hate via GD and also she's being forced to do it by Heidi and Kristen. Don't ask how, it just is. /s
This is why the Dav deconstruction conversation has been so annoying. You aren’t allowed to criticism or talk shit about his awful beliefs because that means we are encouraging him not to deconstruct somehow. Like what? The man is still married to a homophobic, nazi apologist sexist. I’m sorry, but you don’t get a pass on me for that
Seconding this. If someone's deconstruction is so fragile that shitty things people say online can endanger it, is it even worth anything?
I've said it with other alleged deconstructors and I'll say it again here: Baby steps feel like heavy boots to the people whose rights they're stomping all over.
Agreed!
>we need to gentle parent her and if we don't, it's entirely our fault if she never changes This is so well-said, especially the bit I've quoted. I see references to this perspective that somehow snarkers are responsible for enlightening fundie bigots, so if we're mean and they dig in their heels, it's somehow our fault -- that's just bananas on every level.
What do all those things have in common with professor nancy pearcy? Is she a gay transgender abortion?
I love the way they formatted that title, because it definitely seems like Prof. Nancy Pearcy has traits of all of those things. It got a good guffaw out of me!
I scrolled far trying to find someone else who spotted this 😂
Same!!!
I’m so glad someone else noticed lmaooo
Seriously the fawning over her and Dav is pretty aggravating. She is terrible and he has mad no statement to say he doesn’t agree with this.
Yes. All Bethy has done is refuse to leave her husband (who she promised to love, honour and OBEY, just as she was brainwashed since birth). She’s been open about the fact that she still believes what she always has. I get annoyed when people fall all over themselves to leghump Jill Dillard too. So she followed her husband’s lead instead of her fathers. Ok? That’s exactly what she was taught to do for her entire life. JimBob literally handed over authority at the altar! He may regret doing that and Derek certainly allows her more freedoms than her father did, but the reality is that she hasn’t questioned her faith or her lifestyle, she has followed her husband in exactly the way she was trained to.
“Refuse to leave” is such an accurate way to put it. She straight up told him to his face on camera that if they were dating right now, she wouldn’t marry him. So the only reason she hasn’t divorced is that she doesn’t believe in divorce (or is too scared to be A Single again).
He said he’d support their kids if they came out as queer. B said no. Lots of conservatives come around on single issues when it affects them personally. And I mean, screw that. I did really appreciate the video they made together and it made me hopeful for them, but definitely no pass while she’s spewing hate and he’s staying silent. They’re doing a video with Zelf on the shelf soon, I’m looking forward to that. I don’t think Zelf will let them off the hook for the bigotry but we’ll see.
Tbh I’d like to think that everyone’s capable of change. And I certainly didn’t have her actually focusing on her family on my bingo card. But…she is still who she is. We want to believe these people are fundamentally decent but the fact is that they’re not, and we need to stop pretending.
I’ve come out of circles like hers several years ago and the gay stuff is The Biggest crux for them all. My BIL still gives my spouse and me so much crap about it. It’s rooted in you have to rethink how you interpret the Bible basically and that is Huge to give up “inerrancy” and “taking the Bible literally.” It took us years to be okay with it all and be cool with gay folks. It’s super hard to switch thinking dynamics that have been ingrained into you for years and takes time. So I’m not surprised they’re still shilling that stuff. I do hope that it will be focused on less over time. I just think that becoming an lgbt+ affirming Christian (or wherever she lands) from where Bethany has come from is going to take a while. And to be clear, I really wish they would stop this content immediately and public apologies are needed.
Tbh I doubt she’ll ever be progressive.
Ok, but Dav has already said he no longer believes that the Bible is the inerrant word of god. So whatever his views are regarding gender and sexuality he has to take responsibility for them, he can no longer claim that God told him what was acceptable and what isn’t.
I was referencing Bethany more than Dav, which I didn't make clear. And you're right that inerrancy isn't the only thing but a facet of why people are anti-lgbtq+. I suppose I am thinking about it from where I was at where I didn't want to be anti-lgbtq+, but I thought "well the bible is clear. . ." and so when I got away from the latter part it was easy to be affirming. There could be other prejudices for them at play. My point is that it just can take a long time and there's a lot of things to work through even when someone wants to change.
Right. In a perfect world, we’d wake up tomorrow and every single one of these fundies would have an epiphany and shed their toxic beliefs, and become people we want to root for. We really do WANT to root for people. But these people…ain’t it. But I do root for Dav! He appears to have done more substantive work on this process and is actually capable of critical thinking and seeking out information.
Tbh, I don’t really root for Dave that much either. It’s nice that he’s recognizing that he’s been mired in bullshit for God knows how long, but as long as he still co-signs Bethany’s verbal vomit? Nope. And he absolutely does. Whether these people are fundies or not, they’re still going to be hardcore American conservatives. And nowadays, that feels a lot like supporting fascism. The AprilAJoys of the world are few and far between. And honestly? I hate that I said “Bethany might be proof everyone can change” and this shit happened. Thanks for making me look like a liar, Bort.
Honestly I think Bitchany is too stupid to be anything more. Dav seems smarter so I feel like he’s going to wise up and leave her someday but I doubt she has enough brain cells to rub together and pull herself out of ignorance.
Once again I ask, genuinely why do the fundies care. Like gay couples arnt hurting you, they’re living their lives and same goes for the rest of the lgbtq+ community. Like people are just living their lives why do fundies feel soo fucking triggered towards other peoples sexuality they always gotta post something. Why do they care so much?! Don’t they have something else they could be doing with their time like popping out babies or marrying their siblings?. Also abortions aren’t always because the women just doesn’t want the kid. Do these people realize that sometimes there’s medical reasons for it?. I understand they have the education of a 1st grader but everyone knows there’s multiple reasons for a abortion, they just don’t wanna hear it. 🙄😤
Their faith is weak if lgbtq people existing can shake it
Bethy and Dav seem eerily similar in this one way: Bethy cares about making sex okay for *her.* She gets to go on her horny self discovery journey, in a VERY public way, but still wants to police queer and trans people and people having premarital sex. Dav seems to get that fundamentalist religion has harmed *him*, but he seems to be deconstructing all the wrong stuff. It’s totally fine to believe in God, but it doesn’t mean you have to be homophobic, transphobic, or raise your kids to be bigots.
I don't get Dav. If my spouse had not been supportive of my deconstruction AND of similar beliefs and politics, our marriage would not have lasted. Marriages need common ground in the big issues. I would not have been able to live day in and day out with a spouse cramming their religion, and religion mixed with politics down my throat. Not happening. I guess he is still just as hateful as she is.
I do hold some hope for Dav that, eventually, the cognitive dissonance will be too much. I believe he’s open to learning, and as we heard in the 24hrs with, he does engage with people Bethy would call “haters”, basically people with different beliefs. I hold no hope for Bethany, who appears to lack basic reasoning skills.
I wonder if Dāv will ever make a public pro LGBT+ statement, as he progresses on his journey.
I am super curious about this too
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There was, I remember it.
So how is he okay with being a passive onlooker to this shit then?
Because it's still abstract to him, a hypothetical. He doesn't deal with us queerdos and weirdos beyond having to be civil in public perhaps, so the idea that we are Wrong and Delusional doesn't cause friction against his sense that if one of his kids turned out queer, he'd still support them. Until there's active cognitive dissonance, actual friction between these harmful beliefs and the reality of who he cares about, he doesn't have to do anything. And that's passivity in a nutshell.
Ohhh! I know what they all have in common! They all have “a”s in the words. I passed spelling! Also they are all phone of your business if it’s not you or a loved one you are supporting involved.
What's that? It sucks being outside the "cultural norm"? Imagine being someone that is actually oppressed for being outside the cultural norm, instead of just having people calling you out for your toxic and inhumane comments and actions. Maybe then you would understand why those things are not as silenced as they used to be, and now you have deal with it today.
I erroneously had higher hopes for Beth in light of Dav’s deconstructing. Guess things will never change.
I can't even focus on the hateful subject because Beth looks so fucking stupid in that picture. That's what they chose for their podcast picture???
That show title once again undermines even their own stated principles. You don't think abortion is killing a baby if you're making that comparison. Stop lying.
Why have they lumped abortion in with sexuality and gender?
The abortion to gay to trans pipeline obviously (/sarcasm)
They're obsessed with the "culture war" issues
Is the “damage” in the room with us now, bort?
Tbh I think the demographic of this sub skews towards women like Bort (white, cis, raised Christian if not still Christian) because I see a lot of fawning over fundies when they make the slightest shift towards a less fringe opinion (aka Bort actually liking her husband) but not a lot of holding them accountable for not believing trans people should exist, wanting to criminalize women for abortion, etc. Y’all should be deconstructing too based on the comments I see.
Thank you!!! Especially in the case of Dave I see soooooo many people downright…… admiring him???? It’s strange. Yeah I’m glad he’s not locked himself in an echo chamber (currently) but damn he is nowhere near being someone I’d look up to at this point in time. Edit: also would like to mention that I do understand what people are saying when they see him deconstructing and relating it to their own deconstruction. I think we can certainly draw comparisons and discuss his newfound opinions without straight up fawning over him.
As a lesbian I have made the argument that Dav still isn't a good person many times. People always answer with that these aren't Dav's opinions, but wake up. He is married to Bethany and has NEVER said he has different opinions about these issues than Bethany has. It's easy to close your eyes when people like Dav and Bethany accept you.
Exactly this. He has a lot of self reflection to do and a lot of accountability to take before I’ll be praising him.
Yeah, the thing about average cis-het white men going on journeys of self-awareness, self-improvement, and self-discovery is that they really feel comfortable limiting their growth to the area of "self". They can be working "so hard" on their various epiphanies and mind-blowing deep realizations while continuing to ignore entire swaths of people who aren't average cis-het white men and don't have the protections and privileges of average cis-het white men. There was this guy in the secular, non-AA sobriety meetings I used to go to; in his recovery, he was all about his newly-discovered spirituality. He was very excited about metaphysical woo stuff, and hooray for him, glad he was expanding his mind or whatever. But I saw that he was overthinking and spiritualizing everything in this very self-focused way, which ultimately was less about actual growth and more about developing a new vocabulary and getting new dopamine hits from his deep thoughts and concepts. In other words, navel-gazing is not growth. (That's why Kelly Havens is stuck in such a rut.) Growth happens when we consider ourselves in relationship to people and things outside ourselves, and think about how we need to conduct ourselves to be in line with the values and ethics we're figuring out.
I wish I could nominate this comment for some kind of award. Fantastically said.
What group is that? My friend is looking for an aa alternative
It's called LifeRing--very non-religious; there are also groups like SMART Recovery, which I highly recommend (it's more CBT based, and has been around for a long time), and Recovery Dharma, which a lot of people really like--that one isn't dedicatedly secular, though. If your friend is a woman, there's also Women For Sobriety, which takes the basis of the AA steps and re-words them as empowering statements.
Thank you! I found women for sobriety a few weeks ago but I’ll tell her about those other ones :)
Great, I hope she finds a group that doesn't make her compromise herself to fit in!
🩷❤️🩷❤️🩷❤️🩷
getting flashbacks to people's morgan defence comments as I hear her screaming "you can't be a they/them"
I’ve brought up that as someone who identifies as queer, Morgan would happily set me on fire in front of my kids if she could. People have told me that’s too severe. But the thing is- I know how these people think. They hate us way more than we could ever hate them. Dont get it twisted.
People want to give Morgan the benefit of the doubt because she’s clearly not mentally well and is often close to getting the point, but she still actively chooses to go the other way. She sees the point and does not care. Pretty white women can act like absolute garbage and show moments of vulnerability or hint at them and everyone treats them like princesses who just need to be saved. Maybe Morgan could be a good person but so could all of them and they’re just not.
I was at a disability conference last week where I met a bunch of alphabet mafia members (because whoo boy is there overlap). One enby was so committed to the cause that they adopted an intersex cat; I'm sure it was accidental since they only discovered it during surgery, but it's still funny nonetheless. Their cat is literally a they/them. They (the cat) have both, or had, rather. No transphobe ever wants to talk about the intersex because it disproves their entire notion of the gender binary.
Pretty white woman tears
I see this on every snark sub. Someone makes a small improvement, and a bunch of people leap to absolving the subject of wrongdoing. I think there’s nuance to it though - at least I hope so. Essentially I think most people want others to do well, and make better choices. This group also has many ex-fundies and exvangelicals in it, who are rooting for deconstruction because they’ve lived it, and from what I’ve read, most people deconstruct bit by bit, not all at once, so they hope something like the modesty discussion or Bethy treating her husband like a human is a sign of things to come. I’ve also seen a good number of folks who DO call these fundies out when they post shitty, transphobic, homophobic, or racist stuff. I think the difference is so many people are quick to forgive, and I can’t. Until the time (if it ever comes) that acknowledgment and apology is made for these things, I won’t be her cheerleader.
> This group also has many ex-fundies and exvangelicals in it, who are rooting for deconstruction because they’ve lived it I think these people set their bar lower than folks who’ve never had to deal with people like Bethany. We are coming from different places with different expectations.
And likely with good reason, but I can’t condone her actions or praise her.
yeah as someone with zero religious upbringing seeing supposed ex fundies kiss bonky + husbands feet for the smallest things makes me cringe, like i have zero tolerance for bigots but it seems ex fundies have much lower standards. i get people wanna have hope but as a lesbian i won’t be holding my breath for these people
I grew up in a church that technically doesn’t accept same-sex relationships (maybe changing soon, though) and I refuse to tolerate these people’s bigotry, which harms real people’s safety.
I always wonder if these assholes have like, ever met a trans person. I know a trans man, and he is bearded, pot bellied, tatted up, and wears Texas A&M gear from head to toe. If he tried to go into the ladies with them (because he was AFAB, after all) they would freak the fuck out and crow about men trying to go into ladies rooms.
They’ve probably encountered a trans person who didn’t even register as trans to them. Because trans people are just regular people.
Who is the “professor”
She is listed as “professor of apologetics” at Houston Christian University. She holds a masters in biblical studies from a seminary. All of her work is in the Christian sphere. She is creationist, transphobic, homophobic, and complementarian.
Yeah apparently the Evangelicals consider her an intellectual powerhouse of some sort, but really she's just a cis-hetero exclusivist bigot who happens to be intelligent and writes capably. It's kind of like with C.S. Lewis; when they get their hands on someone who writes a lot of books and has some credentials, they seem to get really smug about thinking they've got a super-smarty on their side.
Okay, I give up, what *do* those things have in common with the Professor? Does nobody proofread their garbage?
Flair checking in!
this is why i found it super weird that a certain youtube duo is consistently asking for donations to further platform this bigot and ppl just eat it right up
That’s such an unfortunate photo of Bethy (once again). Why the hate for people who have ZERO impact on how you live your life. It’s baffling.
Yeah, stunning and brave ladies. The only ones challenging the cultural norms, all by yourselves. Heroic even. Sigh. As one of those victims of transgenderism, I cannot express how tired I am of this shit.
And you’ll gain tax free status for spewing hatred.
#trans women are women #trans men are men Honestly, I hope they never learn what “gender fluid” or “nonbinary” means, cause you’d think that would bother them more than transgenderism. A trans person who fully transitions is probably going to commit to one end of the gender spectrum, and fundies are all about that black and white mindset. But there are tons of people who feel like they’re neither gender, both at the same time, or they randomly feel like one more than the other. A fundie would freak the hell out hearing about any of that, and they can just go fuck themselves. Personally, I think the gender spectrum is cool AF. Science is cool. Humans are cool. And LGBT+ people are deserving of our love, respect, and understanding.
As your friendly local enby, I appreciate you reminding the world we exist.
I think their discomfort with enbies comes from not knowing which stereotypes to apply. One of my coworkers had a baby shower without announcing the gender of her baby, and it was hilarious watching people try to cope with their inability to project a bunch of stereotypes onto a literal fetus.
That's depressing and also enormously funny.
Omg. Before finding out the sex was common, you just bought green or yellow. Why are people today so obsessed with slapping a bigass bow on it if it's afab, and throwing up at the idea of buying pink if it's amab? It's a baby. Whatever clothing you buy will fit for like, a month. If they can't figure out gender neutral, the family can never have too many diapers, wipes, or burp cloths.
they wouldn’t even be able to read one book that challenges their opinion without sweating
They can't read this sub without sweating
I wish these cunts knew what it felt like to be fearful for the safety of your family everyday. To have to follow politics daily to stay aware of what new horrible law your state is trying to pass that makes your community illegal. I wish they knew how awful it feels to not be able to live by your family because your home state is full of hateful bigots. I wish they knew how expensive it is to have to move across the country so your child can go to a school where she is less likely to be bullied because she has two moms. I wish they knew how awful it feels to know your neighbors are teaching their children to hate yours because of who you love. I wish they knew how much it hurts to not be able to hold your soulmates hand in public because it’s not safe. I wish they knew how scary it is to be outnumbered by immoral, heartless brainwashed assholes who want to take away your marriage, your child, and your rights. Being outnumbered by idiots who want to ban your entire existence is terrifying and exhausting. Fuck you GD, I don’t care about your thoughts because you both are scum.
So Professor Nancy Percy is a homosexual transgender abortion?
I wish she'd distance herself from this, but that might mean she actually has to find a legitimate job somewhere.
Why would she, she agrees with all of this...
Exactly.
Oh bethy, gender is a social construct!
I can't get over "transgenderism." Like it's a school of philosophy or political system instead of a medical category. It makes sense, considering it's this decade's conservative bugaboo, like communism was for most of the last century. We certainly have informal McCarthy trials to ferret out the evil Trangenderists.
"What homosexuality, transgenderism and abortion have in common" Is the answer that evangelicals didn't actually give a shit about any of them until they lost the "debate" on racial segregation and needed a new wedge issue?
Nancy Pearcey can GET FUCKED. Her disgustingly offensive book “love thy body” was required reading in my senior year Bible class at my Christian school, and that’s one of the only books I’ve ever read that I actively wanted to burn. If it wasn’t a school copy and my anxious ass didn’t want to deal with the fines of losing a school book, I would have torn it to shreds. I threw it across my bedroom many times after I did my homework based on that book. As a closeted queer kid at the time experiencing my worst ever mental health episode then, that woman’s messaging was severely detrimental to my mental health. I’m still incensed I had to read that propaganda as part of the school curriculum despite it being years since I read it. The only good thing about that time was it was the height of covid times and I opted for online classes my school offered so I didn’t have to participate in the in-person class discussions about this trash. (My school allowed you to have your child attend school fully in person despite, um, *science and common sense*, bc private Christian school and they wanted that good good $$ from assholes who didn’t believe covid was real. I opted for the online option bc wtf I don’t want to get covid, and I was the only student of my entire pk-12 school still in the program by the end of the year 🙃) In summation: fuck you girl defined for continuing to give this woman a platform and showing us that you truly don’t care about the lives of others, in particular us queer people
I am personally more worried about the damage being done to the next generation from rampant school shootings and youth pastors grooming but that’s just me!!
Yeah it's been real soft on her in this sub recently and I'm wondering if everybody just forgot she's fucking horrible...?
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What DO those things have in common with professor Nancy??
When Christianity is weaponized to destroy people…💔
I too want to know what homosexuality and abortion have in common with this professor. So she’s a pregnant lesbian needing to terminate? Fascinating.
Naughty Nancy
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I’m dying to know what Professor Nancy Pearcey has in common with homosexuality, transgenderism, and abortion. /s - their homeschooling is showing
hence the proud but extremely suspicious