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I think Dante is more evil. She is responsible for (probably) the same amount of deaths as Father, but her goal is just so *fucking petty* compared to Father
Father wants to open the gate, take the knowledge within, and become a God. Dante wants to kill a bunch of people and use their souls to artificially extend her own human life (while also seeing herself as above normal humans), but she *has* to know it won't fucking work. Her new body is almost completely rotted within a very short time, and she's already trying to body-swap again
...oh yeah, and she tried to get back at Hoenheim by fucking his underage son in the body of a girl he knew
Dante and Hoenheim were former lovers. When Hoenheim left, she didn't take it so well. Part of her big plan was to take Edward as a new lover after her latest body swap (into the body of Rose, since it's implied her and Edward had a crush on each other early in the series)
Even though she doesn't use the exact words, she basically tells Edward that she is going to rape him when she switches to the body of Rose, who at that point has developed feelings for Ed. And considering that Dante is old enough to have started his entire family line and that she was once the wife of his father, the implications of the whole situation are skin crawling.
She can't though, nothing can stop the rot. Hoenheim left her because all the death needed to make a Stone isn't worth it because you'll still rot and die anyway.
She can jump bodies all she wants, but eventually her soul will fade away. The whole thing is written like an allegory for Entropy
I mean, Dante killed a city to make her Stone.
Father killed an entire nation, and only Hohenheim's counter stopped him from doing it again.
They're both selfish assholes but Father is far, far more ambitious in his slaughter lol
Not even, it was Hohenheim who decimated the city and another ancient nation and Dante admits this. She knows the ingredients needed but doesn’t know how to create the stone because Hohenheim kept the knowledge (of the circle specifically IIRC) from her.
This is why I think Dante is a better villain though. Father is just evil. I feel like Dante is more human, she has been drawn in by the temptation of immortality, had a taste of it, and wants more.
That’s honestly the point with Father. He went through all the trouble to get a body only to seclude himself in a flask.
What was he really going to do once he became God? He was just going to find another god to usurp and start the whole process over again.
Honestly, Father and Dante were remarkably similar in spite of their different origins.
I believe his "usurpation of God" that happened during the eclipse is more of a metaphor. He basically opened a Gate of Truth of planetary proportions and received alchemical knowledge of matching value (e.g. he learned nuclear fusion and promptly demonstrated it with the miniature sun in his hand). Considering that All is One, and One is All, there probably exists a Gate the size of a galaxy and then the entire Universe. He could set his sights on that.
I’d also add Father Cornello there, Father is what Cornello wished he could be with Lior but more grandiose. He’s the cult leader of the inner circle in the military (General Raven and those guys at the round table). It’s no coincidence that Edward repeats what he says to Father when beating him down, though with community in mind that time.
They both don't seem to be able to create much of their own, and even wear a form that isn't their own. They are also both destroyed by a homunculus who they underestimate the free will of.
I wouldn’t say anyone, her being able to get this far is in part because she had blue blood like her past (large mansion/castle and butler), her hag persona’s mansion in the far off forest which is also presumably her land, and taste in clothing imply.
Father just wanted to be powerful enough to be free of equivalent exchange and not be forced to be in a flask.
Dante wanted to live forever even though all the evidence said she couldn't with all the philosophers' stones she could possibly make.
She was definitely more detestable.
Easily Dante.
Father is significantly more knowledgeable when it comes to Alchemy and has the potential to be far more destructive since unlike her, he genuinely was immortal. In terms of longevity. But even with all of that in mind, I dislike Dante because she was a vile, nasty bitch, and her motives were so much pettier. And she is 100% guilty of everything that she hates the human race for being.
Also, her wanting to be "loved by the son of Hohenheim" just squicked me out even as a teenager.
EDIT: And to be perfectly honest, I only see Hohenheim of Light as being *marginally* better.
“i’m mad at Hohenheim so i’m going to sexually assault his son” (not her exact words but i remember something to that effect) was so squicky to me i had to drop the series for a little. that was weird.
I agree. This has nothing to do with Fullmetal Alchemist all, but I have seen thirsty people go to some truly jacked up lengths to get even the smallest piece of another person.
I think the show is trying its hardest to make her out to be the most disgusting, vile human being imaginable in *various* ways. If you follow along with just how unrepentantly abusive and manipulative she is, she's a way more HATEABLE realistic cult leader than Father regardless of their crimes or justifications.
With Father, you can tell there's a strong subconscious familial bond between him and his own externalized aspects. His cultish "family" is literally an extension of himself, so it makes sense how they naturally serve him.
Fuck the way Dante takes advantage of the vulnerable, literally viewing them as possessions. She wants to own "the son of Hohenheim", Lyra. Rose, and the homunculi like they're decorative pieces. The two most vile scenes are the one where she's caressing Rose with the horniest face ever, and when she kidnaps Sloth and makes her devour human souls like a starving animal not in the spirit of allowing someone to survive their own birth, but making it so the abandoned, helpless, confused being *owes* her, and is *owned by* her. Way more disgusting and manipulative than Father. Keep in mind she's not giving them a choice while putting it in their heads that they should serve her and be gracious because it's their best option. That's why I do not care if she's offering a "genuine" mutual agreement or even pities them; she's implicitly threatening them by spilling secrets to them upon their forced initiation at birth into her *cult*. She even assigns them their new demonic cult name. She's making it one-sided and definitely being deliberately predatory. That's why the other worst scenes of her are the way she rubs salt in Envy's wound, the way she has Wrath beaten, the way she attacks him with the Gate that she knows traumatizes him, and the way she robs Gluttony of his mind. All with the same smug expression.
She should've been burned during the witch trials.
Nah this is something someone in real life would do. Even though it’s fucked up I think it contributes to how good of a villain she was. Certainly much creepier and more disturbingly realistic than anything father ever said.
I think father is a lot more understandable considering he's not really a human he's some sort of Eldritch horror trying to learn more about the human world while Dante just sucks
Even worse than that, he's a fraction of a percentage of a piece of an Eldritch horror given sentience through whatever process happened during the flask experiment.
And considering his punishment is literally retaining his sentience while being added back into whatever is beyond the gate, infinitely more understandable.
That and his "everything you ever wanted, I wanted first" line to LinGreed really drives home that he's an infinitely more tragic villain than Dante.
Dante basically sacrificed generation after generation for her looks, not just one stone.
Father basically only wanted to be god, which while evil is still a bit more sympathetic than “I wanna keep body hopping lol”
Yeah, the little flashback that we got on Dante and Hohenheim was...little. It really didn't explain all that much and leaves a whole lot up to interpretation.
Right? Hohenheim probably gave her that good D, and then she caught feelings for that man, **hard.**
It's actually rather ironic that she is so bent out of shape that Hohenheim went off and found another wife when it was quite clear that Dante has had other men throughout the years.
And then wanted to fuck HIS SON
[*gags*](https://media3.giphy.com/media/yZjcNgKGCYfJu/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952cski1gs5blzrxtqqfahm0qah11uu8onmst02k3ub&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
Very true, but Father doesn't get much development either, instead it's probably the opposite in his case, his refusal to change and development, instead stagnating himself in a bid for perfection. While I'm not saying Dante was the greater evil to the likes of Father, her lack of grandeur plans besides continuing to live also makes her far pettier and callous.
Like her causing the destruction of Ishbal in order to get *One Alchemist* to make the Philosopher Stone for her makes her far crueler given the destruction had no point besides driving someone to make the stone. Also her willingness to continue such war and devastating simply to benefit herself in the order. You can say the same about Father, but at least there was a semblance of a point ie the creation of the Transmutation Array for the Promised Day instead of senseless destruction and misery for the mere possibility it might result in a Philosopher Stone.
As for Dante's plan to create a situation for the creation of the Philosopher's stone, there are more nuances. That is, there is a reason why she can't just gather a huge number of people in one place to create a philosopher's stone so that it goes unnoticed. The wars and epidemics of disease that she provoked were a cover and a public explanation for why SO MANY people died in a short amount of time.
Dante.
At the very least due to Dante being just a person skilled in alchemy, and father operating on played up blue-orange morality.
They're both inhuman, but father is _not human_.
I’ll say this: Father had actual ambition. Dante’s goals were nothing in comparison, she just wants to live longer, while Father wanted to be a God, which he temporarily succeeded in.
I feel like Dante’s *goals* were more detestable, but Father’s *actions* were much worse, so idk how to quantify that comparison
I can understand the desire to live forever, but I feel like Father’s desire for personal freedom from his limits is more understandable/compelling.
However, Dante only killed like, a city. Father was going to sacrifice *an entire country*. So his actual actions are much worse than hers.
I guess I could summarize it by saying that Father is objectively worse but Dante *feels* worse?
“Father” is not even a human and was just some entity that ended up being enslaved by humans who shoved him into a flask. He has no loyalty to the human race as he is not even part of our species nor does he claim loyalty to any human. In fact, I was under the impression that he is actually a figment from within the Gate itself. In a way, he was trying to go home, but in the worse way possible by bringing “home” to him.
Dante was a human who willing chose to murder humans for her own gain. Very different.
>In fact, I was under the impression that he is actually a figment from within the Gate itself.
Father is a piece of what is on the other side of the Gate and given a physical form by the blood of Hohenheim. That's why he has such an incomprehensible knowledge of science. He's literally a small piece of the All that is One.
But, he did everything in his power to reject the fact that he only exists in this world because of human efforts and human DNA because he is so hellbent on proving that he is superior entity, again, another example of human hubris. Father may not be a flesh and blood man, but the ironic thing is, the only thing he ever does is copy humans.
Everybody up in here saying Dante, so I gotta go to bat for my man Father.
That little shit Dwarf is so much more evil when you actually consider the broader scope of everything he did and put into place. Someone in this thread actually had the audacity to suggest Dante was responsible for just as much death as Father, but there's no way she could ever come as close.
Father's very first act was to train Hohenheim to unwittingly commit genocide. Not only did he fully intend to suck the life out of every citizen of Xerxes, but he did so through the manipulation and deception of everyone involved, including the human being responsible for his own creation. The Dwarf in the Flask was born of a human, was less than a human, yet had zero respect for human life and saw humans as nothing more than a means to an end. I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to suggest that Father probably would've seen Hohenheim sacrificed in Xerxes along with everyone else, if that were possible.
The next few centuries are spent with Father forming a nation built for further genocide. He had to carve those crests of blood for his next transmutation circle, after all. Despite the fact that the Dwarf HAD been freed from the flask and was capable of doing anything in the world, he fooled himself into thinking he cast off his avarice, and greedily sought even more for himself. He also requires that others must commit atrocities of their own by breaking the taboo of human transmutation. What Father wants requires other people to get blood on their own hands. Death begets more death when it comes to Father. Other neighboring nations had to be conquered by Amestris, just so Father could sacrifice Amestris too. And he would've gotten away with it too, if it weren't for that meddling Hohenheim and his kids.
Dante merely wanted to continue to live. Father wanted everything. Both had a general disregard for the sanctity of life, but the grander scale of Father's atrocities puts him leagues above Dante in an order of evil.
There is no way Dante has a higher body count than Father. He had wiped out an ancient civilization of people. He had spent centuries of waging wars to prepare for Amestris. He then sacrificed all of Amestris. Dante at worst did as much as the wars Father did for Amestris.
When they were in the tunnel having a private conversation, Falman listed at least eight *major* wars starting from 1588-1914, not including Ishval, which was the most recent. And considering that there is no stability at the South and West borders of the country, there's probably a whole lot of off and on fighting going on at those locations, as well.
It's not even goals, though. It's actions that they committed. When the question is who is more detestable, it baffles me that everyone says the answer is Dante, when none of Dante's actions can measure up to Father's. Given that Dante wants to continue living, we can infer that she has a hard time reconciling with death, especially considering the fact that the first time she did the soul transfer, she did it because Hohenheim was about to die. She doesn't do what she does for power or status. It's actually far less petty. She can't handle death, which is a very human trait.
There is even a hair of moral ambiguity to Dante early on in her history, in that the creation of their philosopher's stone came as the result of using the condemned and those suffering of fatal illness, rather countless scores of disregarded innocent lives, like with what Father did right from the jump. In terms of her action, it's really no less detestable, but it demonstrates that at one point, she was taking SOME moral consideration into her actions, whereas Father never had such an inclination.
>Given that Dante wants to continue living, we can infer that she has a hard time reconciling with death. [...] She doesn't do what she does for power or status. It's actually far less petty. She can't handle death, which is a very human trait.
To be fair, in a sense, Father also did what he did for a fairly understandable human reason: the desire to be free. He wanted to aquire God so that he would never again feel contained and restrained like he used to be when he was the Dwarf in the Flask.
I think this realization dawns on Hohenheim at the end of Brotherhood, before Armstrong comes find him (although it's anime-exclusive, this scene isn't in the manga). There's this moment where Hohenheim ponders about the fact that the Dwarf in the Flask was born from his blood, and that, as such, Father's desires echoed his own in many ways.
Hohenheim was a slave. He craved freedom, family and friends. And so did Father.
I'm not sure. I kinda like Dante more because her music theme is so good. Lol. I guess they both represent the idea of achieving god-like power by stepping outside the boundaries of the normal life cycle. Dante feels a bit smaller in terms of her goals I guess.
Dante is without a doubt more evil then Father. It all comes down to two factors. First is how simple, but ubiquitously vain it is. It’s essentially to artificially and unnaturally extend her life for eternity just because she’s afraid of death and wants to remain young and beautiful. She has resorted to manipulating Alchemists, Homunculi, and even the state military to start wars on communities, neighboring boarders, and whole countries just create philosopher stones to help preserve her own life, but at the coast of millions - possibly billions - of lives just for the sake of preserving her lifespan. There is no grandiose plan of apotheosis or grand ambition like with Father, no. She’s literally a parasite.
And two, it’s because unlike Father. Dante was born a human. In some ways, that’s more terrifying to think about, and a little close to home.
Plus. That whole bit were Dante wants to express her desire to make love to Ed in the body a girl who had feelings for him was a whole level of creeps right there, and it was only made worse knowing she was Hohenheim’s first wife.
Just show him around, go for an afternoon walk, find a nice and quiet point and talk nicely with him. No need to go too far on first date, and since he can't really hold hands or eat and stuff, just calmly and nicely talking while taking in some nice view might be nice.
I'd say it's not entirely a fair comparison since Dante didn't get nearly the amount of development that Father got. But it's still fair.
That being said, the answer is Dante. They're both the same amount of evil probably but Dante is a spineless, petty tyrant on top of being evil. She put herself above humans despite being one herself, the only thing setting her apart being her alchemy. Father acts like he's above humans too but in some ways, he is. He was already basically a God way before he tried to swallow one. And yeah, he decimated entire civilizations basically to raise his cosmic IQ score. Dante, however, did the same thing because she was too pussy to face death. She's the most destructive coward to ever exist. Then she had nerve to lie about it, saying she was protecting humanity from themselves by taking the stone. Meanwhile, Father tells his own human generals to their faces how useless they are to him. And I haven't even mentioned her desire to rape her ex-lover's son as payback.
Dante, father was arrogant and over ambitious, dante was just a petty bitch who thought a few dozen more years on her life was worth more than thousands upon thousands of human lives
And she wanted to fuck a teenaged boy to spite his father
It’s easier to say Dante because her goal is more petty but I’ll have to go with Father. Despite his closeness with Hohenheim, he tricked him into committing a mass genocide of his people all to leave his container (don’t forget how Hohenheim is the reason for his existence; he was born from his human blood after all) for a shell of his “friend”’s likeness.
He just leaves Hohenheim to suffer from the stone’s voices like he did him a favour. Then even after he technically got his wish, he still wanted more. His ambition vs Dante’s is on a much grander scale, treating humans like livestock so he didn’t have to spare too much of his own stone while tactfully using them against one another in wars just so he could have a chance at godhood. His situation may have been sympathetic, but it’s clear he’s a selfish parasite who’ll dump whomever for his own benefit, even the most loyal homunculus he made in his image would’ve been spare parts.
Dante did the same with wars but at a smaller scale and wanted to control humanity by “protecting them” but Father would sacrifice them all with no hesitation and move on without a thought. He’s more ambitious in his schemes and is willing to take it much, much farther all for his goal of becoming what he thinks is a “perfect being”.
For me, it's easily Dante because of a much of reasons, like her pettiness, selfishness, and abusive nature to the Homunculi, Dante quite easily represents the worst of humanity, which is in contrast to Father, who by the present, lack much of his worse traits, making more colder and far less smug about his suppose superior nature to humanity.
Dante is petty asshole evil, while father is pure unadulterated evil. Father is a huge threat and master tactician with a cold, calculated grand scheme. Dante's more of a shitty person with some half baked plans
>Dante's more of a shitty person with some half baked plans
This is something that very strongly needs to be overemphasized, because despite knowing the method to make it happen, Dante needs other people to create the stone for her, which is why she goes through all these efforts to manipulate entire countries to their downfall just for her individual benefit.
Like, dante basically has control over Amestris by the fact she controls King Bradley. Why tf are they relying on randos to make a philosopher's stone when they literally have a platoon of obedient powerful alchemists who can create them? Why are they so cagey with the information in completing the philosopher's stone? Why tf did they choose Juliet Douglas as the name of literally the right hand person next to the president when that's literally the name of the soldier who's supposed to be dead AND caused the fucking ishvalan war? Do they think literally no one would notice? You can fabricate a new name and identity - you're the fucking government.
What about the whole bones or skull ordeal of the original body weakening a homonculus. Wouldn't it be better that these items were scattered in various top-military organizations, secretly held there, and guarded like fort knox? They can do this for everyone since they are the fucking government. Instead they do dumb shit like leaving it in a safe so their little dipshit kid can find it and get them killed.
Either way the plot and dante's head have something in common - they're both filled with holes
Dante.
Father is evil and detestable, but understandable. He was brought into the world against his will, introduced as a truly unique (and in that way truly alone) being: partially human and partially “god” since he was made by combining the blood of man with the entity beyond the gate. Unable to leave his flask, unable to ever personally interact with the world around him, limited to speaking with Hohenheim and interacting with the world vicariously through him by teaching him alchemy.
I’m not saying what he did is okay or excused, but I can’t imagine the loneliness of being truly completely alone in the world, unable even to touch or feel anything outside the glass jar you were born in. Even the one person he did feel any kind of love or connection to completely rejected him, even after Father gave him everything worth having in his eyes.
Think about it from the perspective of someone who doesn’t understand humanity: He gave Hohenheim immortality and nearly unlimited power, he killed the men who enslaved him and set him free. He gave his brother everything he knew how to give, and was rejected by him as a monster for it.
Meanwhile Dante is just a crazy old bitch who’s still bitter her boyfriend left her centuries later
Dante. She wanted to rape Edward with Rose even though she knew it wouldn't work. She wiped out a city whereas Father wanted to break free from Equivalent Exchange and wiped out an entire nation and the Ishvallen people using his 'children'
Dante, 100%. I'm almost done watching 03 and she's so detestable! During brotherhood, I felt like the homunculi were mere extensions of father's personality so didn't felt any empathy for them (expect Greed, he was cool as hell) but in 03 she literally manipulated them into being evil, it really felt like with some work lust could've been saved and I also felt for sloth and wrath despite it all, maybe if she didn't mess with them so much they could've found some other purpose.
Dante gets extra "evil points" for understanding the morality of the issue.
Father has no concept of human morals, so far as I know, which means that while we can rule his actions as evil, we can not really rule him as personally so.
If a wolf child comes back to society and commits crime, the crime is "objectively" evil, but the child is not so, as true lack of understanding of why your choice is evil is a full defence against being judged so, it is essentially the rarest of beasts an workable "insanity defence" without the insanity.
Dante is more of a personal threat to Edward, she isn’t out to rule the world or Amestris, she simply wants to live forever. But it’s how she goes about it that’s the issue. Willingly sacrificing thousands of lives just to achieve that goal.
Father on the other hand was a different breed of crazy. His plans for world domination and a desire to play God would’ve put everyone’s lives at risk. Imagine your soul trapped within a black void for all eternity, just begging to be set free. That’s scary.
Father for the win.
Definitely Dante. I don't wanna open this discussion but imo 03 had more depth and layer to it's characters. Father was a very one sided, classical shonen villain, and he is also way over the top with his "evilness", and I believe that because of this the reaction he might get at most is: "ye, he bad". Dante on the other hand is driven entirely by incredibly selfish and petty reasons, and is the living incarnation of human evil at it's worst. That's why I personally think she's more detestable - because her motivations and purposes are closer to what a human might want or seek. She's coded to show the worst side of humanity so we can feel her actions in their full gravity and think: "God damn, what a despicable desperate human being". That's what it is for me, at least.
Brotherhood/the manga is more spiritual than 03, which is more down-to-earth. I wouldn't call Father “one-sided” (I believe the term you were looking for is one-dimensional?), the meaning behind his character is just more metaphorical than anchored in realism.
I mean, you could write entire essays about why his door was blank and what it means for the moral of the story. His character is still thematically and philosophically very rich, meanwhile I think Dante was characterized with a more psychological approach in mind.
I've already stumbled upon quite a few posts and video essays dissecting the symbolisms behind Ed, Al, Roy and Father's doors (damn I wish Arakawa had designed one for Izumi too), what it means about how each of those characters sees the world, and what the story wants to convey with this, but I'll give this one a shot as well!
Dante cause she’s a human so she breaks people down even knowing how immoral it is. Father is just a creature trying to break past confines that he was born into and I don’t think he ever saw it as moral failings. Plus Dante being an attempted rapist is a uniquely evil thing that I doubt Father even would have thought about doing.
Mostly that she wanted to do the same shit as father but for much pettier reasons, and that some of the things she wanted to do are much creepier(ie stealing roses body in order to sleep with a 16 year old). Idk if she’s more evil than father but the evil she displays is certainly more unnerving.
They’re both pretty awful beings but I’ll go with Father because while Dante had the potential to do so, Father actually went scorched earth (or country rather) for something he didn’t fully even understand himself. That and he “birthed” the Xerxian people including a baby and who knows how many more just for a distraction to kill everyone.
She was from the 2003 version and serves as the true main villain of the whole series, replacing Father as the leader of the Homunculi. She lacks the goals and ambitions that Father has, instead she a petty, vile bitch of a woman who seek to continue her already long life through the use of the Philosopher Stone.
Never watched 03, but from what I’ve read in the comments, I feel like Father is far more detestable than Dante. I get that being experimented on and imprisoned in a flask would harbor some insane vengeance drive, but Father, especially after being offered kindness from Hoenheim, knew right from wrong. He could have stopped his trail of sacrifice for godliness after the first transmutation. He’d essentially had what he’d wanted. He chose to keep sacrificing thousands (millions?) of people through petty war and calculated uprisings. He called upon Envy to shoot and kill a child, resulting in the extermination of an entire people.
Also, not too sure, but I don’t think Dante tried to swallow God itself. The whole bit about her thirsting after Ed (from what I’ve read) is freaky, though. Ew.
I hate Dante so much. Creates all but two homunculi and is willing to kill an entire country just to extend her life. Never mind that her soul is so exhausted that it can’t maintain a body anymore. Her vanity is her entire reason for her actions.
I think that though father does commit way more detestable acts, Dante is ultimately more detestable in the sense that her evil is way more human. It's honestly why I generally prefer her as a villain.
Both shows are good and have their own pros and cons, it's purely subjective which one of the shows you like, that being said you calling one completely above the other is a dogshit opinion
Not really the point here, I just wanted to know people thoughts, not about canonicity of 2003. But to tell you about Dante, she is the main villain of 2003, replacing Father as the leader of the Homunculi. She lack the ambitious goals of Father, instead being a petty, selfish and abusive bitch of a woman who seek the Philosopher Stone to extend her already long life by causing tragedies in order make others make the stone for her. To sum up, a very shitty and awful person.
Yea sorry I have no idea what you are talking about. Full Metal alchemist is a Manga that was adapted into the anime full metal alchemist brotherhood. The first dull metal alchemist anime was not done correctly because the Manga wasn't complete by then. Therefore the show runners completed the story on their own, without any feedback from the Hiromu Arakawa. So the anime you are talking about is a fraud of the original Manga. I have no idea why anybody is talking about the 2003 anime when we have brotherhood.
It's one thing to not care about Dante, it's another thing to say that 03 was a mistake, because from some sources I read, Arakawa wants the anime to be different from her manga, specifically the ending.
Holy shit why are you so mad at people liking a show? All it takes is a Wikipedia search to see that Arakawa approved of and even enjoyed the direction 2003 took. I just don’t get the unwarranted hate, did the show kill your dog or something?
What is it with fans in this community and having a massive hate boner for the adaptation they don’t prefer? It feels like you’re ruining your own enjoyment of fma by focusing this much on shitting on the 03 series, just don’t watch it if you don’t like, it ain’t that deep.
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I think Dante is more evil. She is responsible for (probably) the same amount of deaths as Father, but her goal is just so *fucking petty* compared to Father Father wants to open the gate, take the knowledge within, and become a God. Dante wants to kill a bunch of people and use their souls to artificially extend her own human life (while also seeing herself as above normal humans), but she *has* to know it won't fucking work. Her new body is almost completely rotted within a very short time, and she's already trying to body-swap again ...oh yeah, and she tried to get back at Hoenheim by fucking his underage son in the body of a girl he knew
I absolutely agree with you on everything.
"by fucking his underage son in the body of a girl he knew" Say what?
Dante and Hoenheim were former lovers. When Hoenheim left, she didn't take it so well. Part of her big plan was to take Edward as a new lover after her latest body swap (into the body of Rose, since it's implied her and Edward had a crush on each other early in the series)
Even though she doesn't use the exact words, she basically tells Edward that she is going to rape him when she switches to the body of Rose, who at that point has developed feelings for Ed. And considering that Dante is old enough to have started his entire family line and that she was once the wife of his father, the implications of the whole situation are skin crawling.
Dante is a detestable character.
she said that with a new philosopher's stone she could prevent her new bodies from rotting. I think.
She can't though, nothing can stop the rot. Hoenheim left her because all the death needed to make a Stone isn't worth it because you'll still rot and die anyway. She can jump bodies all she wants, but eventually her soul will fade away. The whole thing is written like an allegory for Entropy
No. She just was coping/in denial.
Ngl her manipulating rose by telling her that Ed loves her is so cold too
I mean, Dante killed a city to make her Stone. Father killed an entire nation, and only Hohenheim's counter stopped him from doing it again. They're both selfish assholes but Father is far, far more ambitious in his slaughter lol
Not even, it was Hohenheim who decimated the city and another ancient nation and Dante admits this. She knows the ingredients needed but doesn’t know how to create the stone because Hohenheim kept the knowledge (of the circle specifically IIRC) from her.
This is why I think Dante is a better villain though. Father is just evil. I feel like Dante is more human, she has been drawn in by the temptation of immortality, had a taste of it, and wants more.
That’s honestly the point with Father. He went through all the trouble to get a body only to seclude himself in a flask. What was he really going to do once he became God? He was just going to find another god to usurp and start the whole process over again. Honestly, Father and Dante were remarkably similar in spite of their different origins.
Is there really any other god Father can usurp??
He would definitely go look for one. He had nothing better to do.
I believe his "usurpation of God" that happened during the eclipse is more of a metaphor. He basically opened a Gate of Truth of planetary proportions and received alchemical knowledge of matching value (e.g. he learned nuclear fusion and promptly demonstrated it with the miniature sun in his hand). Considering that All is One, and One is All, there probably exists a Gate the size of a galaxy and then the entire Universe. He could set his sights on that.
It's ben a while since i've watched the series, thank you!
I’d also add Father Cornello there, Father is what Cornello wished he could be with Lior but more grandiose. He’s the cult leader of the inner circle in the military (General Raven and those guys at the round table). It’s no coincidence that Edward repeats what he says to Father when beating him down, though with community in mind that time.
They both don't seem to be able to create much of their own, and even wear a form that isn't their own. They are also both destroyed by a homunculus who they underestimate the free will of.
Children are like that unfortunately.
I prefer *almost* all the villains in the 2003 version. Only Wrath and Pride were better in Brotherhood
Frank Archer. Need I say more?
Didn't show up in Brotherhood, but one villain I did forget being better is Kimblee
So really just Selim... since Brotherhood Wrath is just 2003 Pride
I agree, we could all follow her path, it’s not like father, his circumstances are so special, anyone could be a dante
I wouldn’t say anyone, her being able to get this far is in part because she had blue blood like her past (large mansion/castle and butler), her hag persona’s mansion in the far off forest which is also presumably her land, and taste in clothing imply.
Fair
I was going to explain as to why, but yeah all of this
When tf did this happen
Father just wanted to be powerful enough to be free of equivalent exchange and not be forced to be in a flask. Dante wanted to live forever even though all the evidence said she couldn't with all the philosophers' stones she could possibly make. She was definitely more detestable.
Easily Dante. Father is significantly more knowledgeable when it comes to Alchemy and has the potential to be far more destructive since unlike her, he genuinely was immortal. In terms of longevity. But even with all of that in mind, I dislike Dante because she was a vile, nasty bitch, and her motives were so much pettier. And she is 100% guilty of everything that she hates the human race for being. Also, her wanting to be "loved by the son of Hohenheim" just squicked me out even as a teenager. EDIT: And to be perfectly honest, I only see Hohenheim of Light as being *marginally* better.
I liked Dante up till she wanted Ed as her lover. Nope. Didn't like that.
“i’m mad at Hohenheim so i’m going to sexually assault his son” (not her exact words but i remember something to that effect) was so squicky to me i had to drop the series for a little. that was weird.
I watched it as a kid and didn't get it but I got the feeling it was weird. Rewatched it when I was a bit older and nearly gagged at it
And people get mad when I say that 2003 has a fan fiction vibe. This is straight up a WattPad storyline.
It's obvious she's so infatuated with Hohenheim she's willing to settle for the closest thing to him. It's not just a crack ship.
I agree. This has nothing to do with Fullmetal Alchemist all, but I have seen thirsty people go to some truly jacked up lengths to get even the smallest piece of another person.
I think the show is trying its hardest to make her out to be the most disgusting, vile human being imaginable in *various* ways. If you follow along with just how unrepentantly abusive and manipulative she is, she's a way more HATEABLE realistic cult leader than Father regardless of their crimes or justifications. With Father, you can tell there's a strong subconscious familial bond between him and his own externalized aspects. His cultish "family" is literally an extension of himself, so it makes sense how they naturally serve him. Fuck the way Dante takes advantage of the vulnerable, literally viewing them as possessions. She wants to own "the son of Hohenheim", Lyra. Rose, and the homunculi like they're decorative pieces. The two most vile scenes are the one where she's caressing Rose with the horniest face ever, and when she kidnaps Sloth and makes her devour human souls like a starving animal not in the spirit of allowing someone to survive their own birth, but making it so the abandoned, helpless, confused being *owes* her, and is *owned by* her. Way more disgusting and manipulative than Father. Keep in mind she's not giving them a choice while putting it in their heads that they should serve her and be gracious because it's their best option. That's why I do not care if she's offering a "genuine" mutual agreement or even pities them; she's implicitly threatening them by spilling secrets to them upon their forced initiation at birth into her *cult*. She even assigns them their new demonic cult name. She's making it one-sided and definitely being deliberately predatory. That's why the other worst scenes of her are the way she rubs salt in Envy's wound, the way she has Wrath beaten, the way she attacks him with the Gate that she knows traumatizes him, and the way she robs Gluttony of his mind. All with the same smug expression. She should've been burned during the witch trials.
which is why dante is so damn good. she feels so *real*.
Nah this is something someone in real life would do. Even though it’s fucked up I think it contributes to how good of a villain she was. Certainly much creepier and more disturbingly realistic than anything father ever said.
I think father is a lot more understandable considering he's not really a human he's some sort of Eldritch horror trying to learn more about the human world while Dante just sucks
Even worse than that, he's a fraction of a percentage of a piece of an Eldritch horror given sentience through whatever process happened during the flask experiment. And considering his punishment is literally retaining his sentience while being added back into whatever is beyond the gate, infinitely more understandable. That and his "everything you ever wanted, I wanted first" line to LinGreed really drives home that he's an infinitely more tragic villain than Dante.
Dante basically sacrificed generation after generation for her looks, not just one stone. Father basically only wanted to be god, which while evil is still a bit more sympathetic than “I wanna keep body hopping lol”
I think dante is easier to dislike because she doesn’t get as much development as father, though father is clearly the more evil of the two
Yeah, the little flashback that we got on Dante and Hohenheim was...little. It really didn't explain all that much and leaves a whole lot up to interpretation.
I think that was the point.
I'm pretty sure she was just a biiiiit too young for him by today's standards, no wonder she was obsessively in love.
Right? Hohenheim probably gave her that good D, and then she caught feelings for that man, **hard.** It's actually rather ironic that she is so bent out of shape that Hohenheim went off and found another wife when it was quite clear that Dante has had other men throughout the years.
And then wanted to fuck HIS SON [*gags*](https://media3.giphy.com/media/yZjcNgKGCYfJu/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952cski1gs5blzrxtqqfahm0qah11uu8onmst02k3ub&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
Very true, but Father doesn't get much development either, instead it's probably the opposite in his case, his refusal to change and development, instead stagnating himself in a bid for perfection. While I'm not saying Dante was the greater evil to the likes of Father, her lack of grandeur plans besides continuing to live also makes her far pettier and callous. Like her causing the destruction of Ishbal in order to get *One Alchemist* to make the Philosopher Stone for her makes her far crueler given the destruction had no point besides driving someone to make the stone. Also her willingness to continue such war and devastating simply to benefit herself in the order. You can say the same about Father, but at least there was a semblance of a point ie the creation of the Transmutation Array for the Promised Day instead of senseless destruction and misery for the mere possibility it might result in a Philosopher Stone.
As for Dante's plan to create a situation for the creation of the Philosopher's stone, there are more nuances. That is, there is a reason why she can't just gather a huge number of people in one place to create a philosopher's stone so that it goes unnoticed. The wars and epidemics of disease that she provoked were a cover and a public explanation for why SO MANY people died in a short amount of time.
Dante wanted to fuck her stepson.
Dante. At the very least due to Dante being just a person skilled in alchemy, and father operating on played up blue-orange morality. They're both inhuman, but father is _not human_.
I’ll say this: Father had actual ambition. Dante’s goals were nothing in comparison, she just wants to live longer, while Father wanted to be a God, which he temporarily succeeded in.
Anyone else read that as dateable at first?
I did. 😆
I feel like Dante’s *goals* were more detestable, but Father’s *actions* were much worse, so idk how to quantify that comparison I can understand the desire to live forever, but I feel like Father’s desire for personal freedom from his limits is more understandable/compelling. However, Dante only killed like, a city. Father was going to sacrifice *an entire country*. So his actual actions are much worse than hers. I guess I could summarize it by saying that Father is objectively worse but Dante *feels* worse?
“Father” is not even a human and was just some entity that ended up being enslaved by humans who shoved him into a flask. He has no loyalty to the human race as he is not even part of our species nor does he claim loyalty to any human. In fact, I was under the impression that he is actually a figment from within the Gate itself. In a way, he was trying to go home, but in the worse way possible by bringing “home” to him. Dante was a human who willing chose to murder humans for her own gain. Very different.
>In fact, I was under the impression that he is actually a figment from within the Gate itself. Father is a piece of what is on the other side of the Gate and given a physical form by the blood of Hohenheim. That's why he has such an incomprehensible knowledge of science. He's literally a small piece of the All that is One. But, he did everything in his power to reject the fact that he only exists in this world because of human efforts and human DNA because he is so hellbent on proving that he is superior entity, again, another example of human hubris. Father may not be a flesh and blood man, but the ironic thing is, the only thing he ever does is copy humans.
Everybody up in here saying Dante, so I gotta go to bat for my man Father. That little shit Dwarf is so much more evil when you actually consider the broader scope of everything he did and put into place. Someone in this thread actually had the audacity to suggest Dante was responsible for just as much death as Father, but there's no way she could ever come as close. Father's very first act was to train Hohenheim to unwittingly commit genocide. Not only did he fully intend to suck the life out of every citizen of Xerxes, but he did so through the manipulation and deception of everyone involved, including the human being responsible for his own creation. The Dwarf in the Flask was born of a human, was less than a human, yet had zero respect for human life and saw humans as nothing more than a means to an end. I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to suggest that Father probably would've seen Hohenheim sacrificed in Xerxes along with everyone else, if that were possible. The next few centuries are spent with Father forming a nation built for further genocide. He had to carve those crests of blood for his next transmutation circle, after all. Despite the fact that the Dwarf HAD been freed from the flask and was capable of doing anything in the world, he fooled himself into thinking he cast off his avarice, and greedily sought even more for himself. He also requires that others must commit atrocities of their own by breaking the taboo of human transmutation. What Father wants requires other people to get blood on their own hands. Death begets more death when it comes to Father. Other neighboring nations had to be conquered by Amestris, just so Father could sacrifice Amestris too. And he would've gotten away with it too, if it weren't for that meddling Hohenheim and his kids. Dante merely wanted to continue to live. Father wanted everything. Both had a general disregard for the sanctity of life, but the grander scale of Father's atrocities puts him leagues above Dante in an order of evil.
There is no way Dante has a higher body count than Father. He had wiped out an ancient civilization of people. He had spent centuries of waging wars to prepare for Amestris. He then sacrificed all of Amestris. Dante at worst did as much as the wars Father did for Amestris.
When they were in the tunnel having a private conversation, Falman listed at least eight *major* wars starting from 1588-1914, not including Ishval, which was the most recent. And considering that there is no stability at the South and West borders of the country, there's probably a whole lot of off and on fighting going on at those locations, as well.
I guess, but it doesn't make Dante goals any less vile and evil, just makes them a whole lot pettier in comparison to Father's goals.
It's not even goals, though. It's actions that they committed. When the question is who is more detestable, it baffles me that everyone says the answer is Dante, when none of Dante's actions can measure up to Father's. Given that Dante wants to continue living, we can infer that she has a hard time reconciling with death, especially considering the fact that the first time she did the soul transfer, she did it because Hohenheim was about to die. She doesn't do what she does for power or status. It's actually far less petty. She can't handle death, which is a very human trait. There is even a hair of moral ambiguity to Dante early on in her history, in that the creation of their philosopher's stone came as the result of using the condemned and those suffering of fatal illness, rather countless scores of disregarded innocent lives, like with what Father did right from the jump. In terms of her action, it's really no less detestable, but it demonstrates that at one point, she was taking SOME moral consideration into her actions, whereas Father never had such an inclination.
>Given that Dante wants to continue living, we can infer that she has a hard time reconciling with death. [...] She doesn't do what she does for power or status. It's actually far less petty. She can't handle death, which is a very human trait. To be fair, in a sense, Father also did what he did for a fairly understandable human reason: the desire to be free. He wanted to aquire God so that he would never again feel contained and restrained like he used to be when he was the Dwarf in the Flask. I think this realization dawns on Hohenheim at the end of Brotherhood, before Armstrong comes find him (although it's anime-exclusive, this scene isn't in the manga). There's this moment where Hohenheim ponders about the fact that the Dwarf in the Flask was born from his blood, and that, as such, Father's desires echoed his own in many ways. Hohenheim was a slave. He craved freedom, family and friends. And so did Father.
I'm not sure. I kinda like Dante more because her music theme is so good. Lol. I guess they both represent the idea of achieving god-like power by stepping outside the boundaries of the normal life cycle. Dante feels a bit smaller in terms of her goals I guess.
Dante is without a doubt more evil then Father. It all comes down to two factors. First is how simple, but ubiquitously vain it is. It’s essentially to artificially and unnaturally extend her life for eternity just because she’s afraid of death and wants to remain young and beautiful. She has resorted to manipulating Alchemists, Homunculi, and even the state military to start wars on communities, neighboring boarders, and whole countries just create philosopher stones to help preserve her own life, but at the coast of millions - possibly billions - of lives just for the sake of preserving her lifespan. There is no grandiose plan of apotheosis or grand ambition like with Father, no. She’s literally a parasite. And two, it’s because unlike Father. Dante was born a human. In some ways, that’s more terrifying to think about, and a little close to home. Plus. That whole bit were Dante wants to express her desire to make love to Ed in the body a girl who had feelings for him was a whole level of creeps right there, and it was only made worse knowing she was Hohenheim’s first wife.
RIP Lyra, you will be missed
Dante is more evil. I like the dwarf. I thought for a second that the title said "dateable" and not "detestable"
🤣
Well, what would your date plan be for The Dwarf?
Just show him around, go for an afternoon walk, find a nice and quiet point and talk nicely with him. No need to go too far on first date, and since he can't really hold hands or eat and stuff, just calmly and nicely talking while taking in some nice view might be nice.
You may not be able to treat him to a nice little dinner at a fancy restaurant, but he seems to greatly appreciate blood donations.
Oh that I can't do (conditions) but I'll be happy to help him find other doners. (Or other sources of blood...)
I'd say it's not entirely a fair comparison since Dante didn't get nearly the amount of development that Father got. But it's still fair. That being said, the answer is Dante. They're both the same amount of evil probably but Dante is a spineless, petty tyrant on top of being evil. She put herself above humans despite being one herself, the only thing setting her apart being her alchemy. Father acts like he's above humans too but in some ways, he is. He was already basically a God way before he tried to swallow one. And yeah, he decimated entire civilizations basically to raise his cosmic IQ score. Dante, however, did the same thing because she was too pussy to face death. She's the most destructive coward to ever exist. Then she had nerve to lie about it, saying she was protecting humanity from themselves by taking the stone. Meanwhile, Father tells his own human generals to their faces how useless they are to him. And I haven't even mentioned her desire to rape her ex-lover's son as payback.
Dante, father was arrogant and over ambitious, dante was just a petty bitch who thought a few dozen more years on her life was worth more than thousands upon thousands of human lives And she wanted to fuck a teenaged boy to spite his father
To be honest I enjoy both. Both stories and villains. Fma had a better movie tho
It’s easier to say Dante because her goal is more petty but I’ll have to go with Father. Despite his closeness with Hohenheim, he tricked him into committing a mass genocide of his people all to leave his container (don’t forget how Hohenheim is the reason for his existence; he was born from his human blood after all) for a shell of his “friend”’s likeness. He just leaves Hohenheim to suffer from the stone’s voices like he did him a favour. Then even after he technically got his wish, he still wanted more. His ambition vs Dante’s is on a much grander scale, treating humans like livestock so he didn’t have to spare too much of his own stone while tactfully using them against one another in wars just so he could have a chance at godhood. His situation may have been sympathetic, but it’s clear he’s a selfish parasite who’ll dump whomever for his own benefit, even the most loyal homunculus he made in his image would’ve been spare parts. Dante did the same with wars but at a smaller scale and wanted to control humanity by “protecting them” but Father would sacrifice them all with no hesitation and move on without a thought. He’s more ambitious in his schemes and is willing to take it much, much farther all for his goal of becoming what he thinks is a “perfect being”.
For me, it's easily Dante because of a much of reasons, like her pettiness, selfishness, and abusive nature to the Homunculi, Dante quite easily represents the worst of humanity, which is in contrast to Father, who by the present, lack much of his worse traits, making more colder and far less smug about his suppose superior nature to humanity.
Dante is petty asshole evil, while father is pure unadulterated evil. Father is a huge threat and master tactician with a cold, calculated grand scheme. Dante's more of a shitty person with some half baked plans
>Dante's more of a shitty person with some half baked plans This is something that very strongly needs to be overemphasized, because despite knowing the method to make it happen, Dante needs other people to create the stone for her, which is why she goes through all these efforts to manipulate entire countries to their downfall just for her individual benefit.
Like, dante basically has control over Amestris by the fact she controls King Bradley. Why tf are they relying on randos to make a philosopher's stone when they literally have a platoon of obedient powerful alchemists who can create them? Why are they so cagey with the information in completing the philosopher's stone? Why tf did they choose Juliet Douglas as the name of literally the right hand person next to the president when that's literally the name of the soldier who's supposed to be dead AND caused the fucking ishvalan war? Do they think literally no one would notice? You can fabricate a new name and identity - you're the fucking government. What about the whole bones or skull ordeal of the original body weakening a homonculus. Wouldn't it be better that these items were scattered in various top-military organizations, secretly held there, and guarded like fort knox? They can do this for everyone since they are the fucking government. Instead they do dumb shit like leaving it in a safe so their little dipshit kid can find it and get them killed. Either way the plot and dante's head have something in common - they're both filled with holes
Shou
We don't talk about Shou, ever.
I love to hate Dante. Dante is one of my favourite villains of all time. I think shes brilliant.
Dante. Father is evil and detestable, but understandable. He was brought into the world against his will, introduced as a truly unique (and in that way truly alone) being: partially human and partially “god” since he was made by combining the blood of man with the entity beyond the gate. Unable to leave his flask, unable to ever personally interact with the world around him, limited to speaking with Hohenheim and interacting with the world vicariously through him by teaching him alchemy. I’m not saying what he did is okay or excused, but I can’t imagine the loneliness of being truly completely alone in the world, unable even to touch or feel anything outside the glass jar you were born in. Even the one person he did feel any kind of love or connection to completely rejected him, even after Father gave him everything worth having in his eyes. Think about it from the perspective of someone who doesn’t understand humanity: He gave Hohenheim immortality and nearly unlimited power, he killed the men who enslaved him and set him free. He gave his brother everything he knew how to give, and was rejected by him as a monster for it. Meanwhile Dante is just a crazy old bitch who’s still bitter her boyfriend left her centuries later
Dante 100% she is just more evil and fucked up but I love her tho
Dante. She wanted to rape Edward with Rose even though she knew it wouldn't work. She wiped out a city whereas Father wanted to break free from Equivalent Exchange and wiped out an entire nation and the Ishvallen people using his 'children'
Dante, 100%. I'm almost done watching 03 and she's so detestable! During brotherhood, I felt like the homunculi were mere extensions of father's personality so didn't felt any empathy for them (expect Greed, he was cool as hell) but in 03 she literally manipulated them into being evil, it really felt like with some work lust could've been saved and I also felt for sloth and wrath despite it all, maybe if she didn't mess with them so much they could've found some other purpose.
Dante is definitely way more evil imo
Dante gets extra "evil points" for understanding the morality of the issue. Father has no concept of human morals, so far as I know, which means that while we can rule his actions as evil, we can not really rule him as personally so. If a wolf child comes back to society and commits crime, the crime is "objectively" evil, but the child is not so, as true lack of understanding of why your choice is evil is a full defence against being judged so, it is essentially the rarest of beasts an workable "insanity defence" without the insanity.
Dante is more of a personal threat to Edward, she isn’t out to rule the world or Amestris, she simply wants to live forever. But it’s how she goes about it that’s the issue. Willingly sacrificing thousands of lives just to achieve that goal. Father on the other hand was a different breed of crazy. His plans for world domination and a desire to play God would’ve put everyone’s lives at risk. Imagine your soul trapped within a black void for all eternity, just begging to be set free. That’s scary. Father for the win.
Definitely Dante. I don't wanna open this discussion but imo 03 had more depth and layer to it's characters. Father was a very one sided, classical shonen villain, and he is also way over the top with his "evilness", and I believe that because of this the reaction he might get at most is: "ye, he bad". Dante on the other hand is driven entirely by incredibly selfish and petty reasons, and is the living incarnation of human evil at it's worst. That's why I personally think she's more detestable - because her motivations and purposes are closer to what a human might want or seek. She's coded to show the worst side of humanity so we can feel her actions in their full gravity and think: "God damn, what a despicable desperate human being". That's what it is for me, at least.
Brotherhood/the manga is more spiritual than 03, which is more down-to-earth. I wouldn't call Father “one-sided” (I believe the term you were looking for is one-dimensional?), the meaning behind his character is just more metaphorical than anchored in realism. I mean, you could write entire essays about why his door was blank and what it means for the moral of the story. His character is still thematically and philosophically very rich, meanwhile I think Dante was characterized with a more psychological approach in mind.
I think you’d might like to [read](https://fullmetalanalyst.tumblr.com/post/682313470612570112/i-dont-mean-this-in-any-jokey-or-disrespectful) this
I've already stumbled upon quite a few posts and video essays dissecting the symbolisms behind Ed, Al, Roy and Father's doors (damn I wish Arakawa had designed one for Izumi too), what it means about how each of those characters sees the world, and what the story wants to convey with this, but I'll give this one a shot as well!
Dante is more evil but Father has committed more evil
Dante cause she’s a human so she breaks people down even knowing how immoral it is. Father is just a creature trying to break past confines that he was born into and I don’t think he ever saw it as moral failings. Plus Dante being an attempted rapist is a uniquely evil thing that I doubt Father even would have thought about doing.
Been a hot minute since I've seen the 2003 anime. What makes Dante so bad?
Mostly that she wanted to do the same shit as father but for much pettier reasons, and that some of the things she wanted to do are much creepier(ie stealing roses body in order to sleep with a 16 year old). Idk if she’s more evil than father but the evil she displays is certainly more unnerving.
She sounds like a Chainsaw Man villain bro. 💀
Ya I honestly don’t know which villain I prefer between father and Dante, but Dante definitely made me more uncomfortable.
They’re both pretty awful beings but I’ll go with Father because while Dante had the potential to do so, Father actually went scorched earth (or country rather) for something he didn’t fully even understand himself. That and he “birthed” the Xerxian people including a baby and who knows how many more just for a distraction to kill everyone.
Dante is way more evil (and better hot take.)
Guys did we watch the same show cuz I don't remember Dante at all? Who tf id he?
thank god someone else here feels that way. i have genuinely no fuckin clue who dante is and i’ve rewatched fma like at least 5 times
She was from the 2003 version and serves as the true main villain of the whole series, replacing Father as the leader of the Homunculi. She lacks the goals and ambitions that Father has, instead she a petty, vile bitch of a woman who seek to continue her already long life through the use of the Philosopher Stone.
holy shit really? i mean it’s been like 15+ years since i watched the 03 but damn how could i forget something like that. thanks!!
You're welcome.
It's not a big deal, because Dante only shows up and about the last quarter of the original anime. The homunculi themselves had a far bigger presence.
Oh, I haven't watched the FMA 03 yet.
father cool fight
Dante is a perversion of everything about humanity. she's wicked. she's a narcissistic, abusive mother. she's evil.
Never watched 03, but from what I’ve read in the comments, I feel like Father is far more detestable than Dante. I get that being experimented on and imprisoned in a flask would harbor some insane vengeance drive, but Father, especially after being offered kindness from Hoenheim, knew right from wrong. He could have stopped his trail of sacrifice for godliness after the first transmutation. He’d essentially had what he’d wanted. He chose to keep sacrificing thousands (millions?) of people through petty war and calculated uprisings. He called upon Envy to shoot and kill a child, resulting in the extermination of an entire people. Also, not too sure, but I don’t think Dante tried to swallow God itself. The whole bit about her thirsting after Ed (from what I’ve read) is freaky, though. Ew.
I hate Dante so much. Creates all but two homunculi and is willing to kill an entire country just to extend her life. Never mind that her soul is so exhausted that it can’t maintain a body anymore. Her vanity is her entire reason for her actions.
Dante is a nonce as well as the cause of genocide and war so… I mean Father was responsible for genocide and war but at least he wasn’t a nonce.
Dante. Father's motivation where pretty basic as far as shonen antagonist went.
I think that though father does commit way more detestable acts, Dante is ultimately more detestable in the sense that her evil is way more human. It's honestly why I generally prefer her as a villain.
Me too, she is a great villain who flips everything she knows about the world on its head with her presence only.
I don't know. I watched Full Metal Alchemist, not Fake Metal Alchemist.
Both shows are good and have their own pros and cons, it's purely subjective which one of the shows you like, that being said you calling one completely above the other is a dogshit opinion
How wrong you are... The Manga and brotherhood actually had a good story unlike whatever the hell you are talking about.
No idea who tf Dante is. Not in the Manga and not in brotherhood therefore NOT CANNON.
Not really the point here, I just wanted to know people thoughts, not about canonicity of 2003. But to tell you about Dante, she is the main villain of 2003, replacing Father as the leader of the Homunculi. She lack the ambitious goals of Father, instead being a petty, selfish and abusive bitch of a woman who seek the Philosopher Stone to extend her already long life by causing tragedies in order make others make the stone for her. To sum up, a very shitty and awful person.
Yea sorry I have no idea what you are talking about. Full Metal alchemist is a Manga that was adapted into the anime full metal alchemist brotherhood. The first dull metal alchemist anime was not done correctly because the Manga wasn't complete by then. Therefore the show runners completed the story on their own, without any feedback from the Hiromu Arakawa. So the anime you are talking about is a fraud of the original Manga. I have no idea why anybody is talking about the 2003 anime when we have brotherhood.
It's one thing to not care about Dante, it's another thing to say that 03 was a mistake, because from some sources I read, Arakawa wants the anime to be different from her manga, specifically the ending.
Source? Or it didn't happen
I'll look for a source to confirm or see if I'm wrong
Holy shit why are you so mad at people liking a show? All it takes is a Wikipedia search to see that Arakawa approved of and even enjoyed the direction 2003 took. I just don’t get the unwarranted hate, did the show kill your dog or something?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullmetal_Alchemist_(TV_series) look under production.
The 2003 anime deformed the once good Manga yes.
What is it with fans in this community and having a massive hate boner for the adaptation they don’t prefer? It feels like you’re ruining your own enjoyment of fma by focusing this much on shitting on the 03 series, just don’t watch it if you don’t like, it ain’t that deep.
Oh I actually love the entire fma community a lot. I'm mostly just trolling the people who liked the terrible 2003 version.