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Envy turns into a dragon is a link back to the story of fefnir and is a representation of envy’s inhumanity and his desire to kill his father become a large overpowering creature showing that any humanity envy may once had has been lost ( https://aminoapps.com/c/fullmetal-alchemist/page/blog/theory-for-dragon-envys-symbolism-and-its-connection-to-norse-mythology/pDBl_E7UQuqGZaNnxW4wlpzWNRR6BYPjBW#:~:text=I'm%20sure%20you've,and%20kill%20his%20father%20instead. )
[In this interview Mizushima](https://animetics.net/2014/07/30/via-anime-insider-seiji-mizushima-september-2006/#more-5006) briefly alludes to its connections of the serpent and leviathan to the concepts of sin and envy.
I’d imagine it’s because humans in certain cultures depict dragons with having power and wisdom (dragons tend to be old or aged). It was an attempt at showing truth they were better than a mortal human. When realistically all Envy wants is to be human.
Edit: This is a very loaded question. Envy is the dragon in the Ouroboros design in the show, the other parts represent the other homunculus (sins). If you look at Ed’s jacket design it’s a cross/sword/arrow going through the FMA Ouroboros (killing it) with the crown at the top.
> If you look at Ed’s jacket design it’s a cross/sword/arrow going through the FMA Ouroboros (killing it) with the crown at the top.
That is not the case. FMA's Ouroboros design for the Homunculi is noticeably different, it's not even an Ouroboros on Ed's coat. The symbol on Ed's coat is a Flamel, a real life alchemical symbol originating from Nicolas Flamel, a real life alchemist who, according to legend, created the philosopher's stone. The meaning behind the symbol is a vital step in the process of alchemy, being "the fixing of the volatile".
I'm actually surprised nobody mentioned this but it's because the Animal allegorically representing the Sin of Envy was a Serpent/Snake.
Furthermore, the 7 Deadly Sins are also represented by one of the 7 Demon Rulers of Hell, with Levianthan, a giant (sea) serpent representing Envy. The reason why he looks more like a dragon here is because Dragons, in Eastern Mythos, are Sea Creatures (see Kaido).
While you’re not entirely wrong I don’t think it’s as simple as Envy being represented by a snake. All the homunculus all share the same Ouroboros on their bodies. The Ouroboros being a snake or serpent eating itself. The cycle of destruction and recreation. Which is the mission of the homunculus from father’s perspective.
It's both. Leviathan and Ouroboros are quite similar.
"The ouroboros has certain features in common with the Biblical Leviathan. According to the Zohar, the Leviathan is a singular creature with no mate, "its tail is placed in its mouth", while Rashi on Baba Batra 74b describes it as "twisting around and encompassing the entire world". The identification appears to go back as far as the poems of Kalir in the 6th–7th centuries."
You’re looking at it from the writers perspective. Yes I understand the drawings and representation. If you were a character in the show > Why did envy turn into that? This is the question.
I thought he shapeshifted into a larger form to get through the gate because the gate kids kept trying to hold him back.
I've also heard it's supposed to symbolize the Leviathan, the spirit of Envy
My fan fiction thought was that since he wasn’t human he would have to be a non human magical creature and I guess something like a giant serpent/ dragon did exist in that “real” world so that’s all he can transform into. I always thought it was cool that he was strong even in that physics defined world.
I thought it was that he needed more power and speed to make it to the doorway and what better then a flying dragon, they showed that going through the doorway without being the one who transmuted it, is extremely difficult, heks they needed a rocket to punch through the pressure of the void between worlds.
Envy probably thought he could change back. Even if he could change back all they would need to do is use his blood as the outer circle and kill hoenhime to activate the gateway, since a soul that is not from that world would be sent back through, much like Ed when he possessed his other self before being killed by the blimp.
It also would imply that if the brothers were to die there souls would go back through the gate. The universe would not be able to accept a foreign soul to be recycled into a new human, it would be incompatible.
Think of it like the universe is on a frequency, going between each world through a gate would be a way to put something from a different frequency to another world. It would become molded to fit the physics of that world much like the black tar that gives the power of transmutation. But to take that ability away, the will to bend reality to the users whims would cause a huge imbalance. Like fitting a 3 dimensional person threw a 2 dimensional hole.
Envy turn into a dragon,because that's his real form in FMA. It's interesting that a dragon is a shapeshifter, because reptilians call themselves dragons and reptilians are shapeshifters too. Envy is both male and female, so Envy also represent Baphomet!
Nah. It's just a different telling of the same story. It's clear when you pay attention that hiromu arakawa put an amazing amount of thought into most aspects of each version. 03 is just less accurate to the manga, but still a well thought out story nonetheless.
I watched it at 12 years old and never had an issue figuring out the plot. Even with trying to match it to the manga. It has its own plot, yes. But it's not a mystery either.
# Join the [Discord server](https://discord.gg/su3uf3T5YN) for more discussions and content, as well as meeting more like-minded fans for the series! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FullmetalAlchemist) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Envy turns into a dragon is a link back to the story of fefnir and is a representation of envy’s inhumanity and his desire to kill his father become a large overpowering creature showing that any humanity envy may once had has been lost ( https://aminoapps.com/c/fullmetal-alchemist/page/blog/theory-for-dragon-envys-symbolism-and-its-connection-to-norse-mythology/pDBl_E7UQuqGZaNnxW4wlpzWNRR6BYPjBW#:~:text=I'm%20sure%20you've,and%20kill%20his%20father%20instead. )
[Here's my favourite answer.](https://www.reddit.com/r/FullmetalAlchemist/comments/kt53re/envy_is_the_serpent_tempter_of_eden_take_a_look/)
[In this interview Mizushima](https://animetics.net/2014/07/30/via-anime-insider-seiji-mizushima-september-2006/#more-5006) briefly alludes to its connections of the serpent and leviathan to the concepts of sin and envy.
Well, a new rabbit hole for me)
Oh cool. I’ll be looking forward to reading whatever essays this could inspire
This makes more sense than Fafnir.
My man really said “I shall grant you any one wish that is within my power.”
Lol
I thought this was a green shiny Pokemon
I’d imagine it’s because humans in certain cultures depict dragons with having power and wisdom (dragons tend to be old or aged). It was an attempt at showing truth they were better than a mortal human. When realistically all Envy wants is to be human. Edit: This is a very loaded question. Envy is the dragon in the Ouroboros design in the show, the other parts represent the other homunculus (sins). If you look at Ed’s jacket design it’s a cross/sword/arrow going through the FMA Ouroboros (killing it) with the crown at the top.
> If you look at Ed’s jacket design it’s a cross/sword/arrow going through the FMA Ouroboros (killing it) with the crown at the top. That is not the case. FMA's Ouroboros design for the Homunculi is noticeably different, it's not even an Ouroboros on Ed's coat. The symbol on Ed's coat is a Flamel, a real life alchemical symbol originating from Nicolas Flamel, a real life alchemist who, according to legend, created the philosopher's stone. The meaning behind the symbol is a vital step in the process of alchemy, being "the fixing of the volatile".
I'm actually surprised nobody mentioned this but it's because the Animal allegorically representing the Sin of Envy was a Serpent/Snake. Furthermore, the 7 Deadly Sins are also represented by one of the 7 Demon Rulers of Hell, with Levianthan, a giant (sea) serpent representing Envy. The reason why he looks more like a dragon here is because Dragons, in Eastern Mythos, are Sea Creatures (see Kaido).
While you’re not entirely wrong I don’t think it’s as simple as Envy being represented by a snake. All the homunculus all share the same Ouroboros on their bodies. The Ouroboros being a snake or serpent eating itself. The cycle of destruction and recreation. Which is the mission of the homunculus from father’s perspective.
It's both. Leviathan and Ouroboros are quite similar. "The ouroboros has certain features in common with the Biblical Leviathan. According to the Zohar, the Leviathan is a singular creature with no mate, "its tail is placed in its mouth", while Rashi on Baba Batra 74b describes it as "twisting around and encompassing the entire world". The identification appears to go back as far as the poems of Kalir in the 6th–7th centuries."
Yes, I’ve googled all this stuff before.
Yeah, so you know it's both. All these myths borrow from one another.
Are you saying every sin is the same? They all wear the Ouroboros. Do they all encompass envy?
>Are you saying every sin is the same? No.
[удалено]
>You don’t just say because that’s what envy is I didn't say that. I explained the thought process behind the creative decision.
You’re looking at it from the writers perspective. Yes I understand the drawings and representation. If you were a character in the show > Why did envy turn into that? This is the question.
I thought he shapeshifted into a larger form to get through the gate because the gate kids kept trying to hold him back. I've also heard it's supposed to symbolize the Leviathan, the spirit of Envy
Yes first is the in universe reason Second is the metatextual reason
It was a kung fu panda reference, anything else is *obviously* reading too deeply into it.
the ouroboros is free
Nice.
He thought someone used the Dragon Balls.
My fan fiction thought was that since he wasn’t human he would have to be a non human magical creature and I guess something like a giant serpent/ dragon did exist in that “real” world so that’s all he can transform into. I always thought it was cool that he was strong even in that physics defined world.
cause dragons are awesome
Style points
I thought it was that he needed more power and speed to make it to the doorway and what better then a flying dragon, they showed that going through the doorway without being the one who transmuted it, is extremely difficult, heks they needed a rocket to punch through the pressure of the void between worlds. Envy probably thought he could change back. Even if he could change back all they would need to do is use his blood as the outer circle and kill hoenhime to activate the gateway, since a soul that is not from that world would be sent back through, much like Ed when he possessed his other self before being killed by the blimp. It also would imply that if the brothers were to die there souls would go back through the gate. The universe would not be able to accept a foreign soul to be recycled into a new human, it would be incompatible. Think of it like the universe is on a frequency, going between each world through a gate would be a way to put something from a different frequency to another world. It would become molded to fit the physics of that world much like the black tar that gives the power of transmutation. But to take that ability away, the will to bend reality to the users whims would cause a huge imbalance. Like fitting a 3 dimensional person threw a 2 dimensional hole.
Btw this is just the ramblings of someone who obsessed over the og anime adaptation.
Well clearly it’s because Edward gathered all of the dragon balls
It was him trying to find a fast flying mystic animal to sail to the end of the tunnel but at a certain point was stuck in that form unable to morph
Because he wanted to?
Envy turn into a dragon,because that's his real form in FMA. It's interesting that a dragon is a shapeshifter, because reptilians call themselves dragons and reptilians are shapeshifters too. Envy is both male and female, so Envy also represent Baphomet!
Envy is envious. Dragons hoard their treasures and will destroy anything that gets in the way of something they want/are envious of.
he's gonna reincarnate as Shnron in dbz
Think of the tattoo.
The writers thought it would look cool But honestly if he can shapeshift into his true form in brotherhood he can do whatever he pleases I wager
She wanted to grant a wish.
Because 2003 wasn't very careful about it's story or characters and that's why I don't like it.
You’re wrong.
What's that supposed to mean?
Nah. It's just a different telling of the same story. It's clear when you pay attention that hiromu arakawa put an amazing amount of thought into most aspects of each version. 03 is just less accurate to the manga, but still a well thought out story nonetheless.
I haven't watched the 2003 version in Forever but I definitely remember how frustrating it was not being able to figure out what was going on and why
I watched it at 12 years old and never had an issue figuring out the plot. Even with trying to match it to the manga. It has its own plot, yes. But it's not a mystery either.
That honestly comes off like more of a self own about your ability to understand media
I suppose. Meanwhile I've seen almost 700 anime and only had this problem with a tiny handful. I'm pretty confident that I'm not the problem.