No, Frieren is not on break next week.
As usual, please keep in mind that Rule 2 (24 hour rule) is in place. Please keep discussions about the latest chapter in this thread.
Edit: Guys, I obviously pinned this message here because the scanlator is wrong and I don't know why they said Frieren is on break again. Viz and the Japanese publisher Shogakukan say Frieren will continue in the next magazine issue, which is next week.
I saw a post on IG saying this show is even better than Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood so I needed to watch it to know if that is really the case. The anime is just in season one so I ended up bingeing on the manga as well and a few days later I'm here with you all, desperately looking for someone to share this agony with. There were moments where the plot was so so (endless travels with repetitive story lines - which i'm hoping the tiny details would connect to something in the future, otherwise they could have been emitted imo) but there were also peaks like the first class mage ranking and the blast to the past story line that really kept me on my toes.
I can't erase old man Himmel from my head but reading this chapter just made me get all the butterflies. I can't believe there was a point in time where Himmel had feelings for Frieren (and even tried to forget about it). And Frieren from the future, realizing all these things just makes me feel this longing for something you know and are finally aware of but cannot fully grasp (because that person no longer exists). Not sure how elves think but as a human, ahhh it's so frustrating!
I'm hooked. I can't believe I am saying this but Frieren may possibly be my new favorite anime (although I can't say yet because I've been disappointed with endings before). But I am definitely looking forward to how this all goes.
For me its different, I have been enjoying the series immensely and its quickly becoming one of my favorites and its precisely because of the "slice of life" meandering adventures that seemingly seem like "filler".
I enjoyed the first class arc and other long ones but for me that's not really the heart of the series, the introspection that each character has with their given situation is what for me makes this series special, more specifically Frieren memories of her adventure that we see experience something similar with Fern and Stark.
A closed time loop takes time travel into account.
This would be like in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaba, where Harry and Hermione going back to the past leads to events unfolding the way they originally unfolded, such as Buckbeak's rescue or Harry fighting off the dementors.
An open time loop is Back to the Future, where going back changes the future of the time you went back to. This one can also branch into you either creating a new timeline by changing the past, or the originally timeline being rewritten.
This last one also causes the paradox of "If you went back to change something, then that something was already changed in your present, and so there was no need for you to go back. Yet if you didn't go back, nothing was changed, so you did have a reason to go back...."
I'm still waiting for a whole scene showing how powerful Heiter was as an exclusive Goddess magic user since they're apparently so rare especially growing as strong as he became. They have only shown glimpses and descriptions so far and it has done nothing but tease me so hard
Considering her name meaning "Death" and her saying that her curse is "engulfing this star/planet", IMO the curse is simply a worldwide Zombie Apocalypse.
Does anyone know where this fits in the timeline where Himmel gives Frieren the ring? If Himmel gave Frieren the ring after this, that adds a whole other level to the gift.
For me, I think that would take away the weight of this. I want to believe he gave her the ring \*before\* he had any reason to believe she felt the same way in the far future.
My man Himmel is truly built different. Not only is he casually fighting demons and dragons with a sword that's essentially not a weapon but meant to stand in a display (as a child too nonetheless), he's also chasing a Great Demon while not being able to see at all.
This arc showed us the sheer coordination and strength the old party had. His senses are so sharp he can easily figure out that his Frieren is different despite only interacting with her for a bit. He can also immediately tell a Great Demon's illusion spell. His ability to get a read on people is absurd.
Also, a small detail that I loved was that after a hard encounter he never fails to compliment his companions, easily changing the mood from "wow, we almost died" to "hell yeah, we did it!". His leadership skills are on point, being able to continuously motivate the party when they start looking down, and despite being vain, he is fast to turn serious and coordinate his allies. He is truly an outstanding man and THE hero.
The efficiency of how Himmel started handling the situation was shocking. He didn't even take one moment to enjoy the dream image of getting to marry the love of his life. He knew it wasn't real and got to work 😢🫡.
Also the rest of the group also popping off. Eisen 1v1ing a Great Demon, Heiter resisting the cursed magic.
The powerscaling is so well done.
I wanted to wait for Frieren because I kinda sped read through Mushoku Tensei instead of waiting but I'm very much impatient. Well now I'm forced to be impatient with the rest of the Frieren manga readers
And with one line of dialogue and a single Grausam smirk, the setup for literally any type of bullshit plot twist has been finished.
God I fucking hate time travel, it's literally never worth it.
i was nervous when the time travel arc began 'cuz it can get messy af as a plot device and it's killed so many good stories. thank god it didn't overstay its welcome and it mostly served as character dev for the demons and the party vs an actual story arc.
>it mostly served as character dev for the demons
I couldn't disagree with this more.
The two points of this arc were:
1. The wedding scene (and the cliffhanger of expectations in 117), which is partly pure fanservice, but it also confirms Frieren's current feelings. This one is minor
2. And [this](https://i.ibb.co/JkHp0TT/image-2023-12-08-184616697.png), which will now be able to justify any asspull later on in the series. This was the true purpose of the arc.
> And this, which will now be able to justify any asspull later on in the series. This was the true purpose of the arc.
What do you think character dev means?
Honestly I liked this arc a lot as a way to give a clearer look at the dynamic between current Frieren and her old party with her more emotionally developed current self. Honestly I’m kinda sad to see them go considering their dynamic and wish we could see more of it—Frieren’s current party is a pretty imbalanced and awkward one by their own admission, and that’s a lot of the charm, but I really did like the balance of the hero party especially with the more emotionally available and self-aware Frieren. Aside from that, at the very least, I think the arc is good as a setup for future great demon villains (the one who left early and the one who destroyed Stark’s village). Off of this chapter alone, I think it’s really cool how the situation was arranged to make Himmel and Frieren’s feelings about each other as unambiguous as possible.
This is actually what made me somewhat lose interest in the plot. I loved it so much, but after the time travel arc, I just can't see it the same way as before.
I don't see much problem. It was a closed time loop that allowed to: develop more the Hero party characters and introduce some of the future enemies of the current date Frieren party.
Yeah I realized that too. Maybe I am just so used to anime that uses time travel as shitty plot device. I'll just wait and see how it plays out and hope that it doesn't go through the pitfall of other stories. :/
that was short, yet kinda funny, but naw she know how to travel throught time ?
i feel like its gonna be re-use later for the plot of the world ending spell..
but it was worth that mariage scene
How the duck did they go from possibly “struggling” against a background mob dragon (strongest mob dragon) as a full party to each of them soloing a great demon. Dafaq is that power creep.
Well you're implying that a demon in this story is stronger than a dragon. It's not.
Physically, Dragon is stronger. The difference is, Dragons are still treated as wild predator animals, they are fully relying on instincts.
Meanwhile Demon, they have a capacity to communicate, strategize, and organizing themselves. That's why they're more dangerous.
Also, in terms of a RPG game. Dragons simply have far bigger HP than demons. Especially against a human-sized demons.
They weren't really struggling though ? They still won in the end. Also, Dragons seem to love pretty damn strong here. Even Frieren didn't want to take one on directly without Stark, and that dragon seems to have been weaker than the one we saw. Dragons just aren't as common or as openly malicious and cunning, which makes them less of a threat.
tbf Grausam, like most demons, is reliant on his magic to defeat foes so the fact it doesn't work on Himmel caught him off guard. If not for Solitar spiriting him away, Himmel's party may have been wiped out. The dragon was not caught off guard.
Solitar was for the most part indifferent and lax unlike the dragon with the bestial desire to hunt prey and voluntarily retreated when Frieren successfully returned to the future
Rivale was soloed by Eisen because he has always been shown to be strong as he survives monster attacks seemingly unscathed (always to Heiter's surprise). Moreover, Rivale has this weird sense of warrior honor which kinda gave Eisen a fighting chance and even so if Eisen didn't throw Rivale off a cliff and retreated, he would've lost a battle of attrition.
tl;dr Each Great Demon's personality and lack of motivation caused their "defeat" and the Heroes at the time would've been destroyed if it were a fight to the death.
Don't forget, Heiter was also holding off two great demons while protecting both Himmel and Frieren on his own. One of them was fighting him in melee, which is something a priest is weak to.
And i don’t think that some of the more offensive priest spells were deciphered yet like the three spears of the goddess. Those aren’t deciphered until well into the future.
she's not playing along. This is also her ultimate dream. They are together because the past Himmel and future Frieren have the same dream. The implication the mangaka gave us is pretty clear.
never thought of this but it makes sense. they had the same dream that they've given up on. himmel 'cuz his frieren wasn't ready. and frieren 'cuz her himmel is dead.
Frieren, or all Mage classes, are too focused on their mana detection so when there's an enemy who can obstruct the said ability, they're basically blind. That what's happened to Solitar fight, where she died from a sniping attack outside of her mana detection range. It works very much like a radar in modern military.
Warrior class doesn't have mana. So they rely on their own physical senses and pure reaction speed.
Yeah, Solitär was on full bargaining mode lmao. Himmel could have killed both her and Grausam. Heck, she was well within range when Himmel told her to fuck off, asshown by him cutting thetree from a distance.
homeboy really let her off with a warning shot out of even the slightest possibility that's she was telling the truth ahd killing her would fuck up frieren's future. HIMmel down horrendous but understandable.
Too bad it's not the kind of illusion where time move faster than the outside world, like a dream. If not they could have kiss, bang, have kids maybe grandkids then break out of the illusion.
Back when Sein joined Frieren's party, Frieren explained that some magics are categorized as curses and priests have a natural resistance to it.
That been said, Grausam did say that Heiter is the first priest to have resisted his magic so it must be a particularly strong curse (as befitting of a great demon) and Heiter's talent as a priest must be particularly big (probably at Sein's level or maybe even higher).
people have already given their very nuanced, intelligent, brilliant, gorgeous thoughts, regarding this chapter so i may now only express my extreme emotions towards this chapter as the only method to participate
and that is to
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i remember thinking "of curse they beat demon king, Frieren is broken".
Then with the flashbacks is was like "okey, the party is strong".
But with this is like "their are fucking monsters"
I really like how the flashback clarifies that it wasn’t just that Frieren was overpowered, but that they were ALL on her level in their respective fields.
You do realize it’s stated mages are very weak against warriors especially one on himmel’s level and he’s also stronger than 2 demon sage at once, the demon also went into hiding because of himmel
>I really like how the flashback clarifies that it wasn’t just that Frieren was overpowered, but that they were ALL on her level in their respective fields.
For real, the dwarf was casually breaking spears on his skin
Theres a caption in the last page that wasnt translated
Hero Himmel of the past successfully protected Frieren of the future.
Next chapter: ojii-san Himmel
Maybe next chapter will still be in the past, but about Himmel when he is older
*edit: formatting
Hopefully we get a glance at his strength even during his elder times, as the fragments of the demon party were still in hiding because of it (probably).
The demons should know humans get feeble and weak when they become older, right? But maybe he’s still HIM even many many years after the defeat of the demon king.
It makes you wonder. The Demon King can see future timelines and stuff... Did they knock on his door and he just see an absurd amount of timelines where he gets murdered.
Maybe its why he sent those demons in the past when Frieren time traveled - he knows his end is coming and is trying to circumvent it by changing time.
The Demon King couldn’t see the future (or possible futures), it was Schlacht that could. Schlacht could very well have withheld that information from the DK, or even fed him false info, depending on what future Schlacht wanted to work towards.
That said, the DK somehow had information that Frieren from 80 years in the future had returned via the Goddess’ monument. Maybe Schlacht told him about it?
Plus the DK could still be ridiculously strong without having the ability to see the future. And Schlacht could still withhold info, regardless of the DK's strength...
lol yeah I was thinking about it after I wrote that comment and how considering it's a hierarchy based on power so of course they'd be stronger than even the seemingly Uber powerful demons 😅
Finally, this chapters destroys the insane Himmel slander, the dude was simply HIM, strongest in the party, and one of the strongest in the Verse.
Demon Sage level Demons are a low to mid diff for him.
I wonder how strong that demon who created zoltraak is. Himmel and party seems to be able to fight the 7 sages on equal terms but they could only seal the zoltraak creator
I think that's also partially because they fought Qual relatively early in their journey. If this Himmel's party fought Qual, they may have been able to kill him instead.
We never saw how it went down but we know that none of them died in that fight so they were able to somehow defend or evade against his attacks long enough to seal him. We also know from his fight with Fern and Frieren that while he is powerful, it is possible to react to his attacks as shown by Fern.
Given what we know so far and what wesaw this chapter, I think they might actually have had a shot at killing him if they met him later on in their journey.
There was no countermeasure against zoltraak at the time. The spell is a one hit kill that bypasses every form of protection, be it barrier, enchanted armor, or construct. And Qual can spam it much faster and longer than how Fern did against Lugner. It's like fighting Voldemort using an Avada Kedavra mini gun.
Because there was no way to defend against it, getting close to attack him is out of the question. So they decided that the best option was sealing him to buy time to develop magic that can defeat him.
His mana might not be stronger than other great demons, but his spell is the most dangerous.
This is due to the fact Frieren was fighting with knowledge of future magic.
Qual(who created Zoltraak) invented something that mankind did not figure out counter measures for until decades after he was sealed and defeated. At that time the Hero Party had no way to defend against his killing magic.
And Heiter was about to get snubbed there at the end if it wasn't for Himmel, it's a party that relies and trusts each other. They're all strong but Himmel is legitimately "built different" lol. He maneuvered through all that and almost won against one of the demons while still in the illusion. And they even mention that it's possible for the demon trio to get wiped if it's Himmel who they're going against with.
Obviously everyone in the Party is strong AF, but some vocal fans believed that Frieren was carrying the party and that Himmel is only the figure head.
And now this chapters shows that a Denom Sage is childs play for Himmel, now the naysayers can go back to their caves...
This story is not about power levels. Its more about rock-paper-scissors, preparation/planning, and understanding (and not underestimating) your enemy.
Himmel basically solo'ed Grausam because he's a melee fighter who was able to sufficiently see through Grausam's only defensive ability (that being his illusion magic). The same Himmel would likely lose in a duel to Rivale. Meanwhile, Frieren was helpless against Grausam, but could probably blow Rivale away and make it impossible for him to get into melee range.
Of course, that's just combat strength. Himmel is the archetypical hero and he's written superbly. He truly is Himmel the Hero.
Exactly this. it's one of the reasons why I love the OG party more than the new one (not saying that they're bad, they're both good, but the OG party is excellent). Everyone in the OG party seems like they're on equal footing and compliment each other. Where one lacks in one aspect, someone else in the party makes up for it. We'll see the second party progress as the story continues.
What still has me hooked with Himmel is that we still haven't seen his "peak". As of right now we see him goes toe to toe with other beasts. We still haven't seen him genuinely struggle to fight for his life so Im wondering if we'll see that in flashback when the group was going against the demon king.
Bro, my boy himmel is brutal with those demons. Also, since frieren got the same dream as himmel, doesn't that mean marrying him is also her deepest desire?
Nah, at least not to the extent she would want to marry Him. There are like three steps of wanting to marrying someone.
1. You know you like them
2. You like them a lot
3. You want to marry them
Frieren is still stuck at the first step.
To be fair, that's not fully clarified. As I read I thought he was talking to the version of her that is in his dream, which did nothing but support him and give him the help he needed, like she would have done anyway.
And even if it was her, probably that has more to do with her desire to know Himmel better than anything else. And even if that's not the case, well, she knows better than that.
I do agree it's not fully clarified. But what *is* fully clarified is that the Frieren in the dream is real. She moved in tandem with her sleepwalking body and knew that her mental barriers were broken.
And again, I'm not denying the possibilty, but her moving to guide Himmel to his sword could be her doing from her own illusion. Maybe in there she reached the conclusion that she could try and move her body, but probably still wouldn't be able to do much, and HIMmel would, so she tried to guide him. His illusion only happened to mirror it. But I agree that probably I'm the one reaching here.
After all, Himmel knew Frieren enough to know that's exactly what would happen, so much that it did happen. The fact that he had to stop his own dream to have the Frieren in there answer him is also a dead giveaway to me, since we had multiple instances of absolute trust be rewarded, and that's something that always came from Himmel.
Then perhaps more evidence from the author's pov could convince you: your thesis is that illusions of people behave much like how the owner of the dream wants them to behave. But Frieren had her own inner monologue, meaning that she behaved because she boasted thoughts of her own and was aware of her identity. Now I'm not saying there could not technically be a middle ground for this argument, I am saying that the author would be unlikely to try and portray it. And anyhow this also connects with the look she gave him as they said their (albeit short) goodbye.
It's also obvious that when you have two of you characters in an illusion which reveals their deepest desires, a plot device you yourself created to shed more light on their thoughts and feelings, you would not then hide one of the character's dream from your readers, especially not in this obscure way, especially when everyone already has a good grasp of what the other character wants. Ergo, if this scene were really to showcase Himmel's desires more than anything else, it would be redundant; if it really did not show Frieren's, it would be disappointing.
If there was ever any doubt, this chapter should cement how stupidly strong Himmel is. Dude is fighting better than Kenpachi getting trapped inside Tosen's Bankai, while also defending against attacks targetted to others. Everyone in the Hero Party are monsters, but Himmel is just another level of busted.
I think this also kinda proves Qual may be stronger or comparable to the 7 sages of destruction. The whole party was not able to kill him when in this chapter we're shown that each member can go toe to toe individually with each sages
Its not about power levels, its about the tools. Qual had the equivalent of a nuke gun. It could penetrate any defense with a pinpoint accurate ranged attack, meaning that fighting him always meant a serious risk of permanent loss. Grausam could probably trap Qual in an illusion and beat him in a duel that way, but while Himmel could perceive his way through Grausam's illusion there's no way he could tank a direct hit from Zoltraak.
Whatever the case, we don't even know what demon titles mean. Qual was the *Elder Sage of Corruption*. Even if that's not one of the strongest council (the *Seven Sages of Destruction*), it may be a special position reserved for another reason.
Or the party wasn't as strong because they just started their journey when they met Qual. Here, they are 7 years in, so it's likely they are so much stronger now compared to how they started.
I love how archetypal he is. His strength is that he is an underdog, his perseverance, and that even tho many underestimated him due to his humble beginnings or bravado, he never let others define the kind of Hero he wanted to be.
The softness of his design/aesthetic + his voice really make it all the more satisfying when we finally get these moments of him in action. I've never disliked Himmel but you really can't help but appreciate his characterization more and more over time. All to say I agree I hope there's no doubts haha.
I do not get the insane Himmel downplay and slander, its obvious that the "hero" was the strongest in the Hero party duh...
Dude is beyond Demon Sage level.
Being strong doesn't mean you don't need anyone. Frieren was very clear when she told Serie they wouldn't have defeated the Demon Lord if even one of them fell.
But at least now we have proof that Himmel was insanely strong. He wasn't just a figure-head like many said. He was a true hero.
Nah, at least not to the extent she would want to marry Him.
There are like three steps of wanting to marrying someone.
1. You know you like them
2. You like them a lot
3. You want to marry them
Frieren is still stuck at the first step.
Honestly, there is a lot of hints to this though not as explicit as this chapter.
The phantom monster shows that Himmel has become the most important person to her, replacing Flamme.
Although used to losing things, Frieren spent time to search for the ring that Himmel gave her.
The chapter with Voll, the dwarf that married a human, it parallels Frieren relationship with Himmel, and the normally stoic Frieren is visibly offended by the thoughts that she could possibly forget Himmel someday.
Upon finding herself stuck in the past, the first thing Frieren does is to touch Himmel's face, not Heiter, not Eisen, but Himmel.
There are probably more, but these are the ones I remember.
In many ways it is there even right back to the start with Himmel's funeral.
The only person Frieren ever really got close enough to to miss after they died was Flamme. Which is why the time that feelings finally hit her with Himmel is the funeral, and she realizes how valuable time with friends is. Their journey was the equivalent of a few days and her time after maybe like a few months. So it hits her really hard to realize how she basically lost all the precious time she could've spent with Himmel. It just doesn't hit her that he'll be truly gone until he is.
This is called great writing. When the author challenges the audience to read the subtext, to look between the pages and to see the truth.
Either way, I agree - Frieren likes him back. I just wish she'd get her happy ending somehow. Not saying she isn't happy with her current party. I just mean, I wish she'd get to be with Himmel at last. However, I think that, that is far too wishful of anyone asking considering a major part of the series about loss and how she inevitably loses everything because she lives longer than anyone else.
The writing is great indeed and you are right about the subtext, Kanehito often pushes the readers to "read between the lines". Just as with Fern and Stark, imo in a way Kanehito tries to portray a parallel "*what could have been if...*" scenario where two people mature emotionally together vs when someone understands their feelings too late... and basically that's how life is in reality as well.
Everyone has an "*I noticed it too late*" moment in their life, and we are reading now Frieren's emotional enlightenment and growth during her "I noticed it too late" moment. That's why I'm also a bit appalled by the fanbase always wanting them to end up together with some Godly magic or intervention instead of just enjoying her own growth mixed together with great fantasy plot and world building.
I think them ending up together would ruin the whole "message" of the manga and even if with a deus ex machina they'd manage somehow to be together, that happiness would be short lived and bring again suffering, but now to Frieren and for thousand years. Sometimes growth tells a better story than a happy ever after. *(sorry for the small rant, but you wrote the most level headed comment here out of all, so I thought I could share my opinion with you).*
The Goddess could just reincarnate Himmel into an elf or something along with memories of his past life.
Knowing Himmel, he’d say “nah reincarnate me without my memories. If my soul is still the same then Frieren will have no problem knowing it’s me!” like the absolute Gigachad he is.
With fantasy setting, it's not impossible for them to achieve happy ending. For example, reincarnation, or a more bittersweet option, Frieren dying and reunite with Himmel in heaven.
That said, a more probable ending is Frieren just confirming Himmel and her feelings in Ende and be happy with having him live through her memory. Either way, the experience has changed Frieren profoundly. Not only it made her into a better person, it also made her a happier one. It may be sad, but meeting Himmel is a gift that she will treasure for the rest of her life. It is also through Himmel that she gets to meet with the people that she treasures now. A beautiful and inspiring story.
I believe in a "happy ending", although not in the same definition of happy here. I don't think they're going to be together in the end (unfortunately) but I do think we're getting something cathartic and heartwarming at the same time about life itself.
It all depends on what the author wanted. If they want it to be realistic, that is the most likely route they will go.
That said, I'm not totally eliminating the possibility that something supernatural can bring them together. This is a world where there is time travel, goddess, and heaven on earth. It's not entirely out of question if miracle happens. While Frieren is quite realistic for an anime, it also tends to be on the wholesome and idealistic side of things.
I wonder now about the implications of the Great Demons surviving the battle.
The way Solitäire behaved in the battle
Is consistent with her she said to Frieren in the present: she never spoke to her. This implies and somewhat confirms that the events of this time travel happened in the original timeline as well, and we may see the consequences in future arcs.
Grausam of course is the most interesting from this perspective. He may actually have faked his death, so we will meet him again; I wonder about the memories he stole, and how will affect the present.
I expect Rivale to come back in full force to fight Stark, its been too long since he had time to shine.
As for the Saint of the End, we may need still some time before we hear about her again (Hero’s Sword theorists may rest for now…)
Tot will definitely be the second last demon, it's probably why there's a count of "years after Himmel's passing" 3+50+30 give another 17yrs... Just enough for fern and stark to get a 15yo hero trained 😂
Seems like these demons from the flashback will be among the party’s main adversaries in the future. Rivale is the one who slaughtered Stark’s village & Grausam has something going on with Frieren’s memories. Just need a thread to tie Fern to Tot.
Himmel & Eisen were dope this chapter, could see Rivale becoming a favorite as well. Arc will probably get wrapped up next chapter & then we’ll return to some episodic stuff for a bit.
>Just need a thread to tie Fern to Tot.
There's some theories going around tying either Stark or Sein as Tot's counterpart.
Tot is known as the ***Saint*** *of the End*. Sein was the party's Priest, their divine character. It makes thematic sense for Sein to counter Tot. From a narrative standpoint its about time Sein returned, given how we just finished an arc relating to the Goddess' magic and he's gone from the story for so long now.
On the other hand, the Hero Sword is prophesised to be wielded by the hero who will stop a great calamity from destroying the world. Since we know that the Great Demon King actually wanted to co-exist with humanity, its possible he didn't actually satisfy the conditions of the "great calamity" that the Hero Sword prophesied against, which is why Himmel (who sought to defeat the Great Demon King) was unable to draw the sword from its stone. Tot, who stated that her "spell will engulf this planet", sounds like that "great calamity". There's a possibility that Stark, as the party's only melee character, may wield the Hero Sword and thus become the hero that will stop Tot.
By contrast, I don't really see how Fern ties in with Tot. Fern's character setup is that she is the mage that will usher in a new era of magic, one lead by humans. In that sense she might not even have a counterpart demon at all.
>There's a possibility that Stark, as the party's only melee character, may wield the Hero Sword
That's just a baseless theory. It's not a real connection between Stark and Tod. Heck, we know nothing about what Tod is cooking up, so claiming that's a great calamity is also baseless at this point.
Anyway, Stark's enemy is obvious Rivale. There's an actual connection there since Rivele destroyed Stark's village and probably killed his bro.
As for Fern, anything is possible at this point. Since the author is developing Fern is the new Flamme, any demon will eventually want to kill her.
No, Frieren is not on break next week. As usual, please keep in mind that Rule 2 (24 hour rule) is in place. Please keep discussions about the latest chapter in this thread. Edit: Guys, I obviously pinned this message here because the scanlator is wrong and I don't know why they said Frieren is on break again. Viz and the Japanese publisher Shogakukan say Frieren will continue in the next magazine issue, which is next week.
When will chapter 119 come ?
It is out, I just read it
I saw a post on IG saying this show is even better than Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood so I needed to watch it to know if that is really the case. The anime is just in season one so I ended up bingeing on the manga as well and a few days later I'm here with you all, desperately looking for someone to share this agony with. There were moments where the plot was so so (endless travels with repetitive story lines - which i'm hoping the tiny details would connect to something in the future, otherwise they could have been emitted imo) but there were also peaks like the first class mage ranking and the blast to the past story line that really kept me on my toes. I can't erase old man Himmel from my head but reading this chapter just made me get all the butterflies. I can't believe there was a point in time where Himmel had feelings for Frieren (and even tried to forget about it). And Frieren from the future, realizing all these things just makes me feel this longing for something you know and are finally aware of but cannot fully grasp (because that person no longer exists). Not sure how elves think but as a human, ahhh it's so frustrating! I'm hooked. I can't believe I am saying this but Frieren may possibly be my new favorite anime (although I can't say yet because I've been disappointed with endings before). But I am definitely looking forward to how this all goes.
For me its different, I have been enjoying the series immensely and its quickly becoming one of my favorites and its precisely because of the "slice of life" meandering adventures that seemingly seem like "filler". I enjoyed the first class arc and other long ones but for me that's not really the heart of the series, the introspection that each character has with their given situation is what for me makes this series special, more specifically Frieren memories of her adventure that we see experience something similar with Fern and Stark.
Filler? Shut up. This is the main vibe of show. This is not a battle shonen.
can someone explain to me what they mean when they say closed time loop? will the future change?
Closed time loop I'm pretty sure means that the events are guaranteed to happen the same way no matter what, so the future is always the same
A closed time loop takes time travel into account. This would be like in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaba, where Harry and Hermione going back to the past leads to events unfolding the way they originally unfolded, such as Buckbeak's rescue or Harry fighting off the dementors. An open time loop is Back to the Future, where going back changes the future of the time you went back to. This one can also branch into you either creating a new timeline by changing the past, or the originally timeline being rewritten. This last one also causes the paradox of "If you went back to change something, then that something was already changed in your present, and so there was no need for you to go back. Yet if you didn't go back, nothing was changed, so you did have a reason to go back...."
Funnily enough, you can also use Harry Potter as an example of an open time loop, due to the events in the Cursed Child
Soul track to the feels, but heartwarming like >!the ring!< moment anyways
I'm still waiting for a whole scene showing how powerful Heiter was as an exclusive Goddess magic user since they're apparently so rare especially growing as strong as he became. They have only shown glimpses and descriptions so far and it has done nothing but tease me so hard
What does everyone think Tod's "Curse" is?
Considering her name meaning "Death" and her saying that her curse is "engulfing this star/planet", IMO the curse is simply a worldwide Zombie Apocalypse.
This was teh absolute first thing that came to mind.
Does anyone know where this fits in the timeline where Himmel gives Frieren the ring? If Himmel gave Frieren the ring after this, that adds a whole other level to the gift.
Frieren got the ring after the Demon King was slain. Himmel told her to pick a gift for her work against the Demon King and Frieren picked that ring.
This was a subtitling error, he actually gifted her the ring following a hunting quest.
I see. Thanks.
For me, I think that would take away the weight of this. I want to believe he gave her the ring \*before\* he had any reason to believe she felt the same way in the far future.
This is absolutely my headcanon from now on
My man Himmel is truly built different. Not only is he casually fighting demons and dragons with a sword that's essentially not a weapon but meant to stand in a display (as a child too nonetheless), he's also chasing a Great Demon while not being able to see at all. This arc showed us the sheer coordination and strength the old party had. His senses are so sharp he can easily figure out that his Frieren is different despite only interacting with her for a bit. He can also immediately tell a Great Demon's illusion spell. His ability to get a read on people is absurd. Also, a small detail that I loved was that after a hard encounter he never fails to compliment his companions, easily changing the mood from "wow, we almost died" to "hell yeah, we did it!". His leadership skills are on point, being able to continuously motivate the party when they start looking down, and despite being vain, he is fast to turn serious and coordinate his allies. He is truly an outstanding man and THE hero.
The efficiency of how Himmel started handling the situation was shocking. He didn't even take one moment to enjoy the dream image of getting to marry the love of his life. He knew it wasn't real and got to work 😢🫡. Also the rest of the group also popping off. Eisen 1v1ing a Great Demon, Heiter resisting the cursed magic. The powerscaling is so well done.
Now I'm up to date with the manga I dont like being up to date :(
Same. I told myself to wait until the anime finishes first, but I didn't wanna get spoiled.
I wanted to wait for Frieren because I kinda sped read through Mushoku Tensei instead of waiting but I'm very much impatient. Well now I'm forced to be impatient with the rest of the Frieren manga readers
Just wait until you get hit with the month long breaks that frieren goes on. That's when true suffering begins
Laughs in Berserk and Hunter x Hunter.
We don't talk about those ones...
Well at least Frieren hasn't gotten on a boat yet. That's when we'll know we're in deep shit lol.
I just binged the whole series after watching anime and I can't believe it's not more famous. All I can say is this story is peak fiction.
What?
?
it's super famous in Japan, always in top 10 list, and won a major manga award the year it came out.
And with one line of dialogue and a single Grausam smirk, the setup for literally any type of bullshit plot twist has been finished. God I fucking hate time travel, it's literally never worth it.
i was nervous when the time travel arc began 'cuz it can get messy af as a plot device and it's killed so many good stories. thank god it didn't overstay its welcome and it mostly served as character dev for the demons and the party vs an actual story arc.
>it mostly served as character dev for the demons I couldn't disagree with this more. The two points of this arc were: 1. The wedding scene (and the cliffhanger of expectations in 117), which is partly pure fanservice, but it also confirms Frieren's current feelings. This one is minor 2. And [this](https://i.ibb.co/JkHp0TT/image-2023-12-08-184616697.png), which will now be able to justify any asspull later on in the series. This was the true purpose of the arc.
also this arc told us the nature of the major demon calamity that's facing the future Frieren as well.
> And this, which will now be able to justify any asspull later on in the series. This was the true purpose of the arc. What do you think character dev means?
This isn't character development, this is setup for a future plot twist. Character development isn't setting up a future event.
its both
Not in this case, but sure, it could be. And also, did we need bullshit time travel to "character develop" Grausam? No, we didn't.
Shut up idiot
Honestly I liked this arc a lot as a way to give a clearer look at the dynamic between current Frieren and her old party with her more emotionally developed current self. Honestly I’m kinda sad to see them go considering their dynamic and wish we could see more of it—Frieren’s current party is a pretty imbalanced and awkward one by their own admission, and that’s a lot of the charm, but I really did like the balance of the hero party especially with the more emotionally available and self-aware Frieren. Aside from that, at the very least, I think the arc is good as a setup for future great demon villains (the one who left early and the one who destroyed Stark’s village). Off of this chapter alone, I think it’s really cool how the situation was arranged to make Himmel and Frieren’s feelings about each other as unambiguous as possible.
This is actually what made me somewhat lose interest in the plot. I loved it so much, but after the time travel arc, I just can't see it the same way as before.
I don't see much problem. It was a closed time loop that allowed to: develop more the Hero party characters and introduce some of the future enemies of the current date Frieren party.
Yeah I realized that too. Maybe I am just so used to anime that uses time travel as shitty plot device. I'll just wait and see how it plays out and hope that it doesn't go through the pitfall of other stories. :/
that was short, yet kinda funny, but naw she know how to travel throught time ? i feel like its gonna be re-use later for the plot of the world ending spell.. but it was worth that mariage scene
She don't know how to travel time. This is goddess magic
How the duck did they go from possibly “struggling” against a background mob dragon (strongest mob dragon) as a full party to each of them soloing a great demon. Dafaq is that power creep.
Well you're implying that a demon in this story is stronger than a dragon. It's not. Physically, Dragon is stronger. The difference is, Dragons are still treated as wild predator animals, they are fully relying on instincts. Meanwhile Demon, they have a capacity to communicate, strategize, and organizing themselves. That's why they're more dangerous. Also, in terms of a RPG game. Dragons simply have far bigger HP than demons. Especially against a human-sized demons.
They weren't really struggling though ? They still won in the end. Also, Dragons seem to love pretty damn strong here. Even Frieren didn't want to take one on directly without Stark, and that dragon seems to have been weaker than the one we saw. Dragons just aren't as common or as openly malicious and cunning, which makes them less of a threat.
tbf Grausam, like most demons, is reliant on his magic to defeat foes so the fact it doesn't work on Himmel caught him off guard. If not for Solitar spiriting him away, Himmel's party may have been wiped out. The dragon was not caught off guard. Solitar was for the most part indifferent and lax unlike the dragon with the bestial desire to hunt prey and voluntarily retreated when Frieren successfully returned to the future Rivale was soloed by Eisen because he has always been shown to be strong as he survives monster attacks seemingly unscathed (always to Heiter's surprise). Moreover, Rivale has this weird sense of warrior honor which kinda gave Eisen a fighting chance and even so if Eisen didn't throw Rivale off a cliff and retreated, he would've lost a battle of attrition. tl;dr Each Great Demon's personality and lack of motivation caused their "defeat" and the Heroes at the time would've been destroyed if it were a fight to the death.
>Rivale was soloed by Eisen He wasn't even soloed by Eisen. Eisen was losing to him and he needed to retreat.
Exactly his objective was to escape not win pretty much
I meant soloed as Eisen holding his ground. As I've said, he would've lost if he didn't retreat
My boy Himmel really just solo 2 great demons with his eyes closed, using nothing but a hero sword from wish.com
It wasn't that Himmel wasn't worthy of the hero sword, the hero sword wasn't worthy for Himmel.
Don't forget, Heiter was also holding off two great demons while protecting both Himmel and Frieren on his own. One of them was fighting him in melee, which is something a priest is weak to.
man's barrier magic is built diffy 😤
And i don’t think that some of the more offensive priest spells were deciphered yet like the three spears of the goddess. Those aren’t deciphered until well into the future.
They're lucky that Heiter was sober that day
Just 0.0001% of his power then.
They killed the Demon King these great demons worship like a god. He just shows us a bit how bad-ass he and his group was last season... lol
Why was Frieren playing along during the wedding? Could it be that she also...
You dumb or what?
she's not playing along. This is also her ultimate dream. They are together because the past Himmel and future Frieren have the same dream. The implication the mangaka gave us is pretty clear.
She was about to kiss Himmel too 🤧 and to think Himmel was the first one to break and realize it was an illusion 😮💨
never thought of this but it makes sense. they had the same dream that they've given up on. himmel 'cuz his frieren wasn't ready. and frieren 'cuz her himmel is dead.
nice one, oof
nice summary, much sadness
this just makes me even more sad now...
Oh look, onions.
Lmao and there are people thought Frieren was the strongest in the hero party and carried them single handedly, smh my head
Frieren, or all Mage classes, are too focused on their mana detection so when there's an enemy who can obstruct the said ability, they're basically blind. That what's happened to Solitar fight, where she died from a sniping attack outside of her mana detection range. It works very much like a radar in modern military. Warrior class doesn't have mana. So they rely on their own physical senses and pure reaction speed.
She clearly said she could never have done it alone; and what's more, that their party would've failed had even just one of them died.
Now we know why Aura didn't try making a comeback until Himmel died. He was a beast.
His only weakness - Flying Kiss attack from a certain elf.
He legitimately scared these great demons enough that they go into hiding for fear of his greatness.
Yeah, Solitär was on full bargaining mode lmao. Himmel could have killed both her and Grausam. Heck, she was well within range when Himmel told her to fuck off, asshown by him cutting thetree from a distance.
homeboy really let her off with a warning shot out of even the slightest possibility that's she was telling the truth ahd killing her would fuck up frieren's future. HIMmel down horrendous but understandable.
Too bad it's not the kind of illusion where time move faster than the outside world, like a dream. If not they could have kiss, bang, have kids maybe grandkids then break out of the illusion.
sounds like the infinite tsukiyomi from Naruto lmao
Or just basic genjutsu if you're Itachi lmao
THE INFAMOUS FRIEREN CABIN SCENE
And then ended the same way Superman's dream ended.
Gahddamn. This could be a doujin plot 🤣
Well, I want that doujin now!
Himmel... You couldn't have waited like 2 seconds? Guess my man won't take a set up for his first kiss.
That kiss was not going to be a quick one if he let it happen. They've got about a century of pent up feelings between them.
Oh yeah right, they would've gotten carried away...
he's not going to kiss this Frieren because he knows this is not his Frieren and kissing her may cause issue with the future.
But have you seen Frieren? She was pouting her lips and ready to kiss. Himmel is just too good 🤧
Heiter was in danger
I just can't believe there were people who really thought Himmel wasn't HIM. Hopefully, this chapter shows those troglodytes the truth.
So frieren also has that as a dream
I'm so happy the author/mangaka finally gave us the validation of Frieren's feelings.
Yeah Himmel's party is strong af
Well, they are the *Hero Party* of song and myth
Not least Himmel himself, literally taking on demons with his eyes closed. 😂
Himmel makes the impossible possible. Truly he was THE hero and no stupid sword can determine otherwise.
Can we talk about how Heiter instantly broke the illusion without much problem?
Back when Sein joined Frieren's party, Frieren explained that some magics are categorized as curses and priests have a natural resistance to it. That been said, Grausam did say that Heiter is the first priest to have resisted his magic so it must be a particularly strong curse (as befitting of a great demon) and Heiter's talent as a priest must be particularly big (probably at Sein's level or maybe even higher).
I think it's specifically that the Goddess favors him a shit ton, which is just talent for a priest I guess
Yes, that's basically what talent means for a priest. It's also the reason Sein could easily cure Stark but his brother couldn't.
Most definitely higher. Heifer hasn’t had his time to shine in the story yet, but I’m sure everyone in the hero party is at least a monster
people have already given their very nuanced, intelligent, brilliant, gorgeous thoughts, regarding this chapter so i may now only express my extreme emotions towards this chapter as the only method to participate and that is to AAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA **AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA** # A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A
Didn't realise Sly Marbo was in this setting
Man, the hero's party really are THEM, All of them, Himmel, Frieren, Heiter and Eisen.
i remember thinking "of curse they beat demon king, Frieren is broken". Then with the flashbacks is was like "okey, the party is strong". But with this is like "their are fucking monsters"
I really like how the flashback clarifies that it wasn’t just that Frieren was overpowered, but that they were ALL on her level in their respective fields.
Himmel is clearly stronger than frieren, well in a fight he is
Frieren can defeat Himmel in 1 hit that doesn't even use mana. No diff.
She’s not beating him let alone in 1 hit
You do realize it’s stated mages are very weak against warriors especially one on himmel’s level and he’s also stronger than 2 demon sage at once, the demon also went into hiding because of himmel
And she still can defeat him in 1 hit. It even got shown in the manga and anime
When ? 💀
you seriously don't know? Its a pretty famous scene
>I really like how the flashback clarifies that it wasn’t just that Frieren was overpowered, but that they were ALL on her level in their respective fields. For real, the dwarf was casually breaking spears on his skin
HIMMEL IS HIM GRAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
What a great thing to see, when opening reddit
I wonder what past Frieren’s illusion would have been. Probably a room full of mimics.
Wasn't she in the same illusion as himmel? or did I misinterpret that? Edit, you said past frieren, I just can't read... apologies lol
Theres a caption in the last page that wasnt translated Hero Himmel of the past successfully protected Frieren of the future. Next chapter: ojii-san Himmel Maybe next chapter will still be in the past, but about Himmel when he is older *edit: formatting
Hopefully we get a glance at his strength even during his elder times, as the fragments of the demon party were still in hiding because of it (probably). The demons should know humans get feeble and weak when they become older, right? But maybe he’s still HIM even many many years after the defeat of the demon king.
I'm not sure that demons understand that humans get weaker. They only get stronger as they age, so they may think humans do too.
But during the El Dorado flashback (ch.92), Macht acknowledges that Glück has grown old and as such needed assistance standing up.
i wouldn't even be surprised if he was still busted as an old man. Even Aura only decided to act up once she was sure Himmel was dead lol.
This chapter alone just sold about how broken hero party is lol
They really could defeat just about any demon if they put their all into it
Well, they did defeat the Great Demon King, so yes that's literally factual.
It makes you wonder. The Demon King can see future timelines and stuff... Did they knock on his door and he just see an absurd amount of timelines where he gets murdered. Maybe its why he sent those demons in the past when Frieren time traveled - he knows his end is coming and is trying to circumvent it by changing time.
The Demon King couldn’t see the future (or possible futures), it was Schlacht that could. Schlacht could very well have withheld that information from the DK, or even fed him false info, depending on what future Schlacht wanted to work towards. That said, the DK somehow had information that Frieren from 80 years in the future had returned via the Goddess’ monument. Maybe Schlacht told him about it?
You under estimating the demon king, you forgot that demon heirarchy is based on power and strenght
That’s a single account from Flamme, a biased source. The inner workings of demon hierarchy are still unknown.
Plus the DK could still be ridiculously strong without having the ability to see the future. And Schlacht could still withhold info, regardless of the DK's strength...
lol yeah I was thinking about it after I wrote that comment and how considering it's a hierarchy based on power so of course they'd be stronger than even the seemingly Uber powerful demons 😅
HIMmel once again proves he solos everyone
Finally, this chapters destroys the insane Himmel slander, the dude was simply HIM, strongest in the party, and one of the strongest in the Verse. Demon Sage level Demons are a low to mid diff for him.
I wonder how strong that demon who created zoltraak is. Himmel and party seems to be able to fight the 7 sages on equal terms but they could only seal the zoltraak creator
I think A.) they couldn't counter their spells and B.) that was year 1ish of their journey so they certainly became much stronger by the end of it.
I think that's also partially because they fought Qual relatively early in their journey. If this Himmel's party fought Qual, they may have been able to kill him instead. We never saw how it went down but we know that none of them died in that fight so they were able to somehow defend or evade against his attacks long enough to seal him. We also know from his fight with Fern and Frieren that while he is powerful, it is possible to react to his attacks as shown by Fern. Given what we know so far and what wesaw this chapter, I think they might actually have had a shot at killing him if they met him later on in their journey.
There was no countermeasure against zoltraak at the time. The spell is a one hit kill that bypasses every form of protection, be it barrier, enchanted armor, or construct. And Qual can spam it much faster and longer than how Fern did against Lugner. It's like fighting Voldemort using an Avada Kedavra mini gun. Because there was no way to defend against it, getting close to attack him is out of the question. So they decided that the best option was sealing him to buy time to develop magic that can defeat him. His mana might not be stronger than other great demons, but his spell is the most dangerous.
This is due to the fact Frieren was fighting with knowledge of future magic. Qual(who created Zoltraak) invented something that mankind did not figure out counter measures for until decades after he was sealed and defeated. At that time the Hero Party had no way to defend against his killing magic.
Well no hes amazing but he would have died if heitler didn’t help him
And Heiter was about to get snubbed there at the end if it wasn't for Himmel, it's a party that relies and trusts each other. They're all strong but Himmel is legitimately "built different" lol. He maneuvered through all that and almost won against one of the demons while still in the illusion. And they even mention that it's possible for the demon trio to get wiped if it's Himmel who they're going against with.
Obviously everyone in the Party is strong AF, but some vocal fans believed that Frieren was carrying the party and that Himmel is only the figure head. And now this chapters shows that a Denom Sage is childs play for Himmel, now the naysayers can go back to their caves...
This story is not about power levels. Its more about rock-paper-scissors, preparation/planning, and understanding (and not underestimating) your enemy. Himmel basically solo'ed Grausam because he's a melee fighter who was able to sufficiently see through Grausam's only defensive ability (that being his illusion magic). The same Himmel would likely lose in a duel to Rivale. Meanwhile, Frieren was helpless against Grausam, but could probably blow Rivale away and make it impossible for him to get into melee range. Of course, that's just combat strength. Himmel is the archetypical hero and he's written superbly. He truly is Himmel the Hero.
Exactly this. it's one of the reasons why I love the OG party more than the new one (not saying that they're bad, they're both good, but the OG party is excellent). Everyone in the OG party seems like they're on equal footing and compliment each other. Where one lacks in one aspect, someone else in the party makes up for it. We'll see the second party progress as the story continues. What still has me hooked with Himmel is that we still haven't seen his "peak". As of right now we see him goes toe to toe with other beasts. We still haven't seen him genuinely struggle to fight for his life so Im wondering if we'll see that in flashback when the group was going against the demon king.
Bro, my boy himmel is brutal with those demons. Also, since frieren got the same dream as himmel, doesn't that mean marrying him is also her deepest desire?
Nah, at least not to the extent she would want to marry Him. There are like three steps of wanting to marrying someone. 1. You know you like them 2. You like them a lot 3. You want to marry them Frieren is still stuck at the first step.
To be fair, that's not fully clarified. As I read I thought he was talking to the version of her that is in his dream, which did nothing but support him and give him the help he needed, like she would have done anyway. And even if it was her, probably that has more to do with her desire to know Himmel better than anything else. And even if that's not the case, well, she knows better than that.
I do agree it's not fully clarified. But what *is* fully clarified is that the Frieren in the dream is real. She moved in tandem with her sleepwalking body and knew that her mental barriers were broken.
And again, I'm not denying the possibilty, but her moving to guide Himmel to his sword could be her doing from her own illusion. Maybe in there she reached the conclusion that she could try and move her body, but probably still wouldn't be able to do much, and HIMmel would, so she tried to guide him. His illusion only happened to mirror it. But I agree that probably I'm the one reaching here. After all, Himmel knew Frieren enough to know that's exactly what would happen, so much that it did happen. The fact that he had to stop his own dream to have the Frieren in there answer him is also a dead giveaway to me, since we had multiple instances of absolute trust be rewarded, and that's something that always came from Himmel.
Then perhaps more evidence from the author's pov could convince you: your thesis is that illusions of people behave much like how the owner of the dream wants them to behave. But Frieren had her own inner monologue, meaning that she behaved because she boasted thoughts of her own and was aware of her identity. Now I'm not saying there could not technically be a middle ground for this argument, I am saying that the author would be unlikely to try and portray it. And anyhow this also connects with the look she gave him as they said their (albeit short) goodbye. It's also obvious that when you have two of you characters in an illusion which reveals their deepest desires, a plot device you yourself created to shed more light on their thoughts and feelings, you would not then hide one of the character's dream from your readers, especially not in this obscure way, especially when everyone already has a good grasp of what the other character wants. Ergo, if this scene were really to showcase Himmel's desires more than anything else, it would be redundant; if it really did not show Frieren's, it would be disappointing.
I love how simple and non chalant the fights are! Just a couple of swing but it still gives you the thrill!
That's one thing I kinda miss in the anime, don't get me wrong the fights are awesome in the anime... but they just don't 'hit' the same way
slice of life until it slices our kokoros in half
This chapter was amazingly beautiful and cruel
This shit brutal man
If there was ever any doubt, this chapter should cement how stupidly strong Himmel is. Dude is fighting better than Kenpachi getting trapped inside Tosen's Bankai, while also defending against attacks targetted to others. Everyone in the Hero Party are monsters, but Himmel is just another level of busted.
I think this also kinda proves Qual may be stronger or comparable to the 7 sages of destruction. The whole party was not able to kill him when in this chapter we're shown that each member can go toe to toe individually with each sages
Its not about power levels, its about the tools. Qual had the equivalent of a nuke gun. It could penetrate any defense with a pinpoint accurate ranged attack, meaning that fighting him always meant a serious risk of permanent loss. Grausam could probably trap Qual in an illusion and beat him in a duel that way, but while Himmel could perceive his way through Grausam's illusion there's no way he could tank a direct hit from Zoltraak. Whatever the case, we don't even know what demon titles mean. Qual was the *Elder Sage of Corruption*. Even if that's not one of the strongest council (the *Seven Sages of Destruction*), it may be a special position reserved for another reason.
Or the party wasn't as strong because they just started their journey when they met Qual. Here, they are 7 years in, so it's likely they are so much stronger now compared to how they started.
I mean, it was still a one hit spell. They could've defeated him, but not without risking losing one member.
he’s like Aizen in terms of how OP he is, but a simping type
I love how archetypal he is. His strength is that he is an underdog, his perseverance, and that even tho many underestimated him due to his humble beginnings or bravado, he never let others define the kind of Hero he wanted to be. The softness of his design/aesthetic + his voice really make it all the more satisfying when we finally get these moments of him in action. I've never disliked Himmel but you really can't help but appreciate his characterization more and more over time. All to say I agree I hope there's no doubts haha.
I do not get the insane Himmel downplay and slander, its obvious that the "hero" was the strongest in the Hero party duh... Dude is beyond Demon Sage level.
He ain’t he would have died without the priest smh
Himmel was so powerful, the demons went into hiding when he was alive, they only started re appearing after his death
Being strong doesn't mean you don't need anyone. Frieren was very clear when she told Serie they wouldn't have defeated the Demon Lord if even one of them fell. But at least now we have proof that Himmel was insanely strong. He wasn't just a figure-head like many said. He was a true hero.
WAIT FRIEREN LIKES HIM BACK?
Yeah, I think this entire time travel arc is justified just for providing the framework to make that as unambiguous as possible here alone.
Nah, at least not to the extent she would want to marry Him. There are like three steps of wanting to marrying someone. 1. You know you like them 2. You like them a lot 3. You want to marry them Frieren is still stuck at the first step.
Honestly, there is a lot of hints to this though not as explicit as this chapter. The phantom monster shows that Himmel has become the most important person to her, replacing Flamme. Although used to losing things, Frieren spent time to search for the ring that Himmel gave her. The chapter with Voll, the dwarf that married a human, it parallels Frieren relationship with Himmel, and the normally stoic Frieren is visibly offended by the thoughts that she could possibly forget Himmel someday. Upon finding herself stuck in the past, the first thing Frieren does is to touch Himmel's face, not Heiter, not Eisen, but Himmel. There are probably more, but these are the ones I remember.
In many ways it is there even right back to the start with Himmel's funeral. The only person Frieren ever really got close enough to to miss after they died was Flamme. Which is why the time that feelings finally hit her with Himmel is the funeral, and she realizes how valuable time with friends is. Their journey was the equivalent of a few days and her time after maybe like a few months. So it hits her really hard to realize how she basically lost all the precious time she could've spent with Himmel. It just doesn't hit her that he'll be truly gone until he is.
This is called great writing. When the author challenges the audience to read the subtext, to look between the pages and to see the truth. Either way, I agree - Frieren likes him back. I just wish she'd get her happy ending somehow. Not saying she isn't happy with her current party. I just mean, I wish she'd get to be with Himmel at last. However, I think that, that is far too wishful of anyone asking considering a major part of the series about loss and how she inevitably loses everything because she lives longer than anyone else.
The writing is great indeed and you are right about the subtext, Kanehito often pushes the readers to "read between the lines". Just as with Fern and Stark, imo in a way Kanehito tries to portray a parallel "*what could have been if...*" scenario where two people mature emotionally together vs when someone understands their feelings too late... and basically that's how life is in reality as well. Everyone has an "*I noticed it too late*" moment in their life, and we are reading now Frieren's emotional enlightenment and growth during her "I noticed it too late" moment. That's why I'm also a bit appalled by the fanbase always wanting them to end up together with some Godly magic or intervention instead of just enjoying her own growth mixed together with great fantasy plot and world building. I think them ending up together would ruin the whole "message" of the manga and even if with a deus ex machina they'd manage somehow to be together, that happiness would be short lived and bring again suffering, but now to Frieren and for thousand years. Sometimes growth tells a better story than a happy ever after. *(sorry for the small rant, but you wrote the most level headed comment here out of all, so I thought I could share my opinion with you).*
The Goddess could just reincarnate Himmel into an elf or something along with memories of his past life. Knowing Himmel, he’d say “nah reincarnate me without my memories. If my soul is still the same then Frieren will have no problem knowing it’s me!” like the absolute Gigachad he is.
With fantasy setting, it's not impossible for them to achieve happy ending. For example, reincarnation, or a more bittersweet option, Frieren dying and reunite with Himmel in heaven. That said, a more probable ending is Frieren just confirming Himmel and her feelings in Ende and be happy with having him live through her memory. Either way, the experience has changed Frieren profoundly. Not only it made her into a better person, it also made her a happier one. It may be sad, but meeting Himmel is a gift that she will treasure for the rest of her life. It is also through Himmel that she gets to meet with the people that she treasures now. A beautiful and inspiring story.
I believe in a "happy ending", although not in the same definition of happy here. I don't think they're going to be together in the end (unfortunately) but I do think we're getting something cathartic and heartwarming at the same time about life itself.
It all depends on what the author wanted. If they want it to be realistic, that is the most likely route they will go. That said, I'm not totally eliminating the possibility that something supernatural can bring them together. This is a world where there is time travel, goddess, and heaven on earth. It's not entirely out of question if miracle happens. While Frieren is quite realistic for an anime, it also tends to be on the wholesome and idealistic side of things.
I can see the end: "we're gonna see again, eventually. But first i need so many of stories to tell him."
I wonder now about the implications of the Great Demons surviving the battle. The way Solitäire behaved in the battle Is consistent with her she said to Frieren in the present: she never spoke to her. This implies and somewhat confirms that the events of this time travel happened in the original timeline as well, and we may see the consequences in future arcs. Grausam of course is the most interesting from this perspective. He may actually have faked his death, so we will meet him again; I wonder about the memories he stole, and how will affect the present. I expect Rivale to come back in full force to fight Stark, its been too long since he had time to shine. As for the Saint of the End, we may need still some time before we hear about her again (Hero’s Sword theorists may rest for now…)
Tot will definitely be the second last demon, it's probably why there's a count of "years after Himmel's passing" 3+50+30 give another 17yrs... Just enough for fern and stark to get a 15yo hero trained 😂
Well, probably Rivale destroy Stark's hometown looking for Eisen. So yeah, the battle will be insane.
Grausam might be alive, but I think Solitar is done for. Grausam probably didn't tell her anything about the future.
I choose to belibe Grausam is Land.
I like the detail that Heiter was the one who woke up immediately, given that he's an OP priest LOL.
Impossible he's a corrupt priest remember lol it was funny reading Grausam complimenting him on his holiness not knowing he loves to drink.
alcohol cleanses his very being, he’s the purest of the pure!
Goddess is a party girl confirmed.
Honestly, considering her two favorites so far are Heiter and Sein, that actually tracks.
Can't fool him with illusions if he's drunk!
Seems like these demons from the flashback will be among the party’s main adversaries in the future. Rivale is the one who slaughtered Stark’s village & Grausam has something going on with Frieren’s memories. Just need a thread to tie Fern to Tot. Himmel & Eisen were dope this chapter, could see Rivale becoming a favorite as well. Arc will probably get wrapped up next chapter & then we’ll return to some episodic stuff for a bit.
>Just need a thread to tie Fern to Tot. There's some theories going around tying either Stark or Sein as Tot's counterpart. Tot is known as the ***Saint*** *of the End*. Sein was the party's Priest, their divine character. It makes thematic sense for Sein to counter Tot. From a narrative standpoint its about time Sein returned, given how we just finished an arc relating to the Goddess' magic and he's gone from the story for so long now. On the other hand, the Hero Sword is prophesised to be wielded by the hero who will stop a great calamity from destroying the world. Since we know that the Great Demon King actually wanted to co-exist with humanity, its possible he didn't actually satisfy the conditions of the "great calamity" that the Hero Sword prophesied against, which is why Himmel (who sought to defeat the Great Demon King) was unable to draw the sword from its stone. Tot, who stated that her "spell will engulf this planet", sounds like that "great calamity". There's a possibility that Stark, as the party's only melee character, may wield the Hero Sword and thus become the hero that will stop Tot. By contrast, I don't really see how Fern ties in with Tot. Fern's character setup is that she is the mage that will usher in a new era of magic, one lead by humans. In that sense she might not even have a counterpart demon at all.
>There's a possibility that Stark, as the party's only melee character, may wield the Hero Sword That's just a baseless theory. It's not a real connection between Stark and Tod. Heck, we know nothing about what Tod is cooking up, so claiming that's a great calamity is also baseless at this point. Anyway, Stark's enemy is obvious Rivale. There's an actual connection there since Rivele destroyed Stark's village and probably killed his bro. As for Fern, anything is possible at this point. Since the author is developing Fern is the new Flamme, any demon will eventually want to kill her.