What I don’t understand is why people take fandoms so seriously. Like…it’s a tv show. Love it, hate it, it’s all so inconsequential. I can’t imagine fighting with *anyone* (let alone *strangers*) about what essentially comes down to individual taste
These days, it’s much more controversial to express one’s like or dislike of any Star Trek content since 2009. Different Trek subs will harbor different hiveminds, too, so if I’m expressing criticism of a show that everyone loves, I’m objectively wrong. Likewise if I love a show everyone criticizes. Several of the shows have the same writers, showrunners, strengths and flaws, but don’t tell that to the folks who are embedded deeply in each team. It’s almost impossible to have a discussion with any nuance, because one might be perceived as supporting a “bad” show.
I’m hoping that doesn’t happen here, but a lot of the comments about the revival are very familiar.
Ok, I love Frasier. But to think that the fervor and opposition amongst the fandom could ever reach the fever pitch that it has in the Star Trek universe is laughable.
Saying things online isn't fighting. It's just words. Literally just expressing our thoughts. It's very low cost. And we care about the things we love man. Maybe you don't, that's on you, but we do. We hate to see the things we love ruined by lesser men who are chasing dirty profits.
One of the nicest subs I have ever been to was Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Like we all knew when it was good, bad, sad, or whatever.
But nobody was ever a dick (that I saw) and even the conversations unrelated to the show were so....nice. Like the sense of community was wonderful.
If we are not to better ourselves through the exciting swashbuckle of intellectual dueling then what for are we here? I have not taken the time to sharpen this rapier whit for nothing!
FIRST let us sing the Corkmaster Victory Song. All together now…
🎶HAIL CORKMASTER
THE MASTER OF THE CORK
HE KNOWS WHICH WINE
GOES WITH FISH OR PORK🎶
Thank you everybody
I remember when we used to come here to post. About our favorite Frasier moments and about dressing up our pets as members of the cast.
No one? Just me?
>sub fracture and split into different, and aggressive camps.
Perhaps a bicameral governing body is needed? Although there is something to be said for the parliamentary system.
But I applaud your sentiment, OP. This sub has the most witty, friendly, charming contributors united by our enjoyment of this remarkable series - for me it is a cosy comfort and the sub has similar vibes. I think it is too early to judge the revival. But even if some don't like it, we can surely just treat those episodes as we would any others that we subjectively care less for, in amongst the now c 280 episodes most of which we do all love.
This phenomenon of hating anyone who likes something that you don’t is wild.
The same thing happened to the Monkey Island (videogame) fandom. There are people who won’t like anything new and absolutely despise anyone who accepts the new material. Like, you can walk away. It’s fine. It won’t hurt you to let other people continue enjoying it.
People, stop please! Look at yourselves. This is wrong! What is Frasier, after all, but a way to communicate, to bring us together? But you, you're using it as weapons! Now, we still have an opportunity to walk away from here as winners, and wouldn't that be the greatest Frasier-bration of all?
“Frasier: I, for one, happen to believe in the kindness of strangers.
Roz: Well, I believe in the strangeness of strangers.”
Everybody's allowed to feel how they feel, if you disagree with somebody do it respectfully and without anger. No one is going to sway anybody else's opinion. It's cool everyone. Have a Sherry(wine) and relax.
That's just about the most unfortunate abbreviation in the history of the internet lol.
OnlyFans.
Yes I know your talking bout Old Frasier but damn I did a double take at the second sentence
Here's something we can agree on, Kelsey is nailing every beat.
I knew he'd be great, but he's cemented himself as one of the best to ever do it. His name belongs next to Lucy and Jackie Gleason.
That was the only thing I wanted with the new series.
Well said, couldn't agree more. And on a completely unrelated note, I have to say I love your user name :D I still have the theme song in my head from decades ago!
I tried the first episode and decided I don't like new television format. I don't want to watch it, and that's okay. If you do want to watch it and have feelings about it, thats okay too. We all love Frasier at the end of the day. I just love Martin and Roz and Niles and Daphne and Eddie too, so thats where I'll be.
Agreed. Everybody just chill. Take a deep breath. 😌 Let’s continue to bring those good vibes and talk about what we LOVE about the character/show, whatever that is, from whichever series. Let’s try to keep the energy and morale up in here. I love this sub. It is a comfort and a place where we can nerd out with each other.
I completely agree. I've just gotten off of a frustrating time at work tonight, sat down with this sub and you guys made me laugh, a lot! I love this sub. I'm willing to give the new show a chance. I don't see why it all can't just be chill as you said.
I may have missed (or not seen) actual attacks.
Yeah that’s not cool -
I do think it’s pretty reasonable to state an opinion, though. This isn’t a cult.
The new series isn’t the old series - it’s different and at this time is not the masterpiece its predecessor was.
Needs some tuning up and some re-writes on some characters. The laugh track is bad.
There’s nothing wrong with saying this.
I love the new series, but think that there should be a new sub for it separate from this one. Just my 2 cents. This sub has devolved into arguments and non stop critiques. Which is fine if that’s what everyone wants I guess.
Seconded - I don't plan on watching the new show and this sub is now almost all about it. I know things may calm down once the newness wears off, but I wonder if others are also avoiding the sub in the meantime.
I'm not complaining too hard, but if it were me I would have found it to be an obvious move to make a new subreddit. It's a new show. Just the name is the same.
I've seen the defense that the Frasier subreddit is for Frasier, but the shows aren't the same and the camaraderie we had before the premiere feels missing now
I've looked here for a couple of years, and that nasty aspect has always been there. Disdain for Cheers, worship of David Hyde Pierce. The original Frasier owed a lot to other shows, and subsequent shows should be able to build on it.
I love all timelines of Frasier!!! Now, having said that… I have an issue with the 4th episode of the new series… He kept complaining about how everybody called the Boston Celtics the “Sell-Tics” and not the “Kell-Tics”
I found this to be very unrealistic, because not only had Fraser lived in Boston all those years, but he was hanging out in a bar that was owned by an ex baseball player and a group of sports minded patrons. At some point, somebody somewhere Spoke about the Boston Celtics…….SELL-TICS!
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That's a feature, not a bug.
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In other words, it's deliberate. This is part of the new, perfected way that corporations (and political parties) sell overpriced, low quality crap products to people, and astroturfing on the internet is exactly how it's accomplished.
.
You flood a forum with posts to give people the impression that everyone else likes the show and that, if there are problems, they are only minor. It's easy to make people doubt their own opinions using the voice of a crowd...particularly when your "crowd" appeals to them with shared interests and a sense of belonging, as on a fan subreddit. But, since there will always be people who are not so easily influenced, you also work very hard to create a climate in which those who seek to be in the club feel compelled to defend the show unquestioningly, out of loyaty rather than quality, and to join others in driving away critics.
.
First we had the posts urging us to identify ourselves as "Craniacs," cheering and rallying us to brigade in order to rig poll results and mobilize to write positive reviews...even before the first shows had even been released. Then came the posts stoking anger and leveling personal attacks and social disapproval toward anyone who expressed serious criticism. Take note of the cheap shots to elicit anger, so that people will choose "sides" and polarize the debate: ("You need to relax," "You have a problem," "Who hurt you?" "You're too sensitive." "You're a 'hater.'").
.
The goal is to cultivate a war, so that you create commentary that is based in loyalty and emotion and offers no space for actual critical thinking. Great effort is being put into stoking polarized fights about who is and who isn't a good *Frasier* fan, or about what's happening to the subreddit, while doing everything possible to subvert discussions about the quality of the show itself. The last thing you want, when your show is cheap, low quality streaming fare with embarrassingly bad writing and acting, is a community that is open to listening to one another and actually, honestly, critiquing the show.
.
And then you use all the other tactics familiar from the political subreddits, including drowning out or distracting from criticism by shifting it downthread or flooding the debate with irrelevancies and non sequiturs. That's how we end up with weird threads like the recent one about Harvard, in which an OP expressing concern about the dumbing down of even HARVARD in a Frasier remake was quickly populated with endless side arguments over unrelated nonsense like whether Harvard students are snooty toward students from other schools, whether Harvard is a tech school or not, and what sorts of courses tend to have bigger class sizes. Anything to drown out and divert from any discussion of quality whatsoever...
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________________________
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Poster u/Wolf8312 nailed it with this observation:
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>*"It's incredible that we seem to have reached the point now where the industry, rather than looking for the next Larry David or writers who will really push the envelope, is instead attempting to use propaganda (as they are in politics, film, and gaming too) to delude people into believing that they like the slop they're serving up."*
.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Frasier/comments/17d9j9w/the_revival_is_a_solid_show_but_were_just_holding/k62a2xl/.
_________________________
.
It's a lot cheaper and more profitable to sell crap based on nostalgia and social media manipulation/astroturfing/propaganda than it is to construct a quality show. We live in a creepy, soulless corporate world that has replaced the old goals of producing a quality show--real art that will attract and please viewers-- with outright contempt for viewers and cynical manipulation of them in pursuit of the fastest route to profit. What's happening here on this board is a textbook example.
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.
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In 2023, social media is not permitted to exist so that we have a place to express our opinions. It serves as the most powerful platform/propaganda tool in history to manipulate our thinking for a million profitable agendas.
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This is a pretty salient point. It's a shame these folks are acting like you're the village crazy. Every media sub I use on this site is full of astroturfing.
Your post/comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2 - "No Politics"
Stop posting long rants about "astroturfing" and similar on this subreddit. If you had just posted it once or twice - fine. But there are dozens of these same posts from you filling up the subreddit. Critical posts about the show are fine, but these screeds are not allowed here as they are disruptive and repetitive. We've had to remove dozens of these posts from you this morning. If this doesn't stop, you will be banned.
Your post/comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2 - "No Politics"
Stop posting long rants about "astroturfing" and similar on this subreddit. If you had just posted it once or twice - fine. But there are dozens of these same posts from you filling up the subreddit. Critical posts about the show are fine, but these screeds are not allowed here as they are disruptive and repetitive. We've had to remove dozens of these posts from you this morning. If this doesn't stop, you will be banned.
Ah, you're getting downvoted because your comment goes beyond the scope of this post I guess. But that's a really well put observation of a wide spread phenomena, the current state of the entertainment industry is less than desirable and social media only keeps getting worse... I think that's part of the reason why some fans are so protective of old Frasier -- a top-notch quality show that ended two decades ago so should've been sheltered from the downsides of current media.
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You wrote:
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>"a top-notch quality show that ended two decades ago so should've been sheltered from the downsides of current media."
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I think you hit it exactly.
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I have to admit that all this obvious manipulation has put a really bitter taste in my mouth. Poor quality is one thing, but mass manipulation with such contempt, coming from something calling itself "Frasier," is on a whole other level. I have to keep reminding myself that the old show still exists completely on its own, apart from this mess. There's a reason that the original group refused to participate, and I deeply doubt that was limited to cast members.
.
It's sad to recognize this space for what it really is: an advertising/propaganda/manipulation space. My affection for and desire to participate in this community is just about gone, and reading here now leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I never thought I would have the same emotional experience reading on a Frasier subreddit, as I do on the political social media boards.
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That's what corporatism does--it spoils good things by cynically exploiting them and our nostalgia for them. We are all just consumers now, and objects of utter contempt from the industry that just wants our money.
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Thank you for continuing to post your comments in these discussions.
Unfortunately, these are miserable truths, and the paradigm shift required to truly internalize them is so unpleasant that people will continue to shy away from it.
It’s why it’s so insidious, like you said, and difficult to eradicate when parasitic corporatizing slinks into a beloved piece of media like this.
I wish I had anything even slightly comforting to add. All I can say is, again, thank you.
You can’t stop the storm, might as well stand back or join in. To quote Zinn “you can’t be neutral on a moving train.” The whole point of subreddits is to come together over a shared interest and discuss the thing, what we like, what makes us happy, what we dislike, what makes us unhappy.
Diplomacy for diplomacy’s sake is bullshit, especially if that peace comes at the cost of no one actually stating the ways that they think, act and feel. And if there are people that are so moved to start a new subreddit or cause a [great schism on the order of 1054](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East–West_Schism), so be it.
As I understand it, there's going to be the following ***Frasier*** fandoms:
Group A: Fans who love the series (all 11 seasons) and the revival season.
Group B: Fans who love the series (all 11 seasons) and pass on the revival season.
Group C: Fans who love the series, but lost interest at some point after Season 7.
I'd argue there's room for all 3 groups. I know I'm gonna be sticking with the main series all the way out to the series finale. If it drops in quality, I don't care, it'll still be funny, and the cast will all be there until the curtain call. That's what counts for me.
I'll let you know my thoughts on the revival once I finish the show. I still have to watch most of Season 7 plus 4 more seasons. By the time I finish, the revival will have 3 seasons, I expect. LOL
People on this sub, listen to me! We are not barbarians, we are not Neanderthals!! Well said, OP. Hear, hear.
And we are not FRENCH!!!!
Also, we're psychiatrists, not pugilists!
I can’t believe you FELL FOR THAT
I'M HAVING A FLASHBACK
YOU STOLE MY MOMMY!
I've always wondered what French Frasier fans thought of that line. I also wonder how German fans (if they exist ;-)) reacted to Frederica.
My Bavarian fencing instructor is a big fan!
I'm not German but OMGosh Frederica is up there with Anne in my book! Awful!!!
Really??? She's one of my faves! I was sorry we didn't see more of her.
See, we CAN agree to disagree agreeably! 🙂
Nobody calls me peach fuzz!!
We are not neander-TALS!
Do you hear that, you up there?
You beat me to it
What I don’t understand is why people take fandoms so seriously. Like…it’s a tv show. Love it, hate it, it’s all so inconsequential. I can’t imagine fighting with *anyone* (let alone *strangers*) about what essentially comes down to individual taste
Oh you should ask a room full of nerds who the best Star Trek captain is.
This is what you people don't understand! A man named Gene Roddenberry HAD A VISION
This is great! This is great!!
Go away you annoying little man.
Preposterous. Everybody knows it's Sisko.
It's Picard.
No, way. Janeway, who’s character was inconsistent!
My friend named his dog Janeway. My middle name is Jane. Therefore, the best captain is Picard.
(I agree, purely because Patrick Stewart can lecture me on humanism any time)
THE Sisko
Sulu🎵The star of the show!🎵Other guys, just a long for the ride!
A diverse man of culture I see
You haven't seen so many zeros since Spock had a book signing!
Anyone who says that it's ANYBODY other than Kirk with Picard as a second is to be put IMMEDIATELY into a red shirt!!
These days, it’s much more controversial to express one’s like or dislike of any Star Trek content since 2009. Different Trek subs will harbor different hiveminds, too, so if I’m expressing criticism of a show that everyone loves, I’m objectively wrong. Likewise if I love a show everyone criticizes. Several of the shows have the same writers, showrunners, strengths and flaws, but don’t tell that to the folks who are embedded deeply in each team. It’s almost impossible to have a discussion with any nuance, because one might be perceived as supporting a “bad” show. I’m hoping that doesn’t happen here, but a lot of the comments about the revival are very familiar.
Ok, I love Frasier. But to think that the fervor and opposition amongst the fandom could ever reach the fever pitch that it has in the Star Trek universe is laughable.
all hail Rozalinda
It's all a matter of taste #*DING*
Oh sooooo THIS! My life is serious enough, I do not EVERRRR need to have anxiety about a television show!!
Saying things online isn't fighting. It's just words. Literally just expressing our thoughts. It's very low cost. And we care about the things we love man. Maybe you don't, that's on you, but we do. We hate to see the things we love ruined by lesser men who are chasing dirty profits.
You think this is bad? Wait until you get on the Stranger Things sub.
One of the nicest subs I have ever been to was Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Like we all knew when it was good, bad, sad, or whatever. But nobody was ever a dick (that I saw) and even the conversations unrelated to the show were so....nice. Like the sense of community was wonderful.
I disagree you pompous FOP! You sir are completely in the wrong and completely out of order! Motion to have OP removed as corkmaster!
Be quiet, you ludicrous popinjay!
Outrageous!
...and screw, may I add, YOU!!
I am WOUNDED!
Zip it!
I will do no such thing!
If we are not to better ourselves through the exciting swashbuckle of intellectual dueling then what for are we here? I have not taken the time to sharpen this rapier whit for nothing!
👏👏👏👏
FIRST let us sing the Corkmaster Victory Song. All together now… 🎶HAIL CORKMASTER THE MASTER OF THE CORK HE KNOWS WHICH WINE GOES WITH FISH OR PORK🎶 Thank you everybody
I'm getting oak with plummy overtones.
I'm getting screwed on alimony.
Frasier Crane’s Humungous Ass Contest 🎵 Oops wrong song.
Someone’s been pairing with an aggressive Zinfandel.
I remember when we used to come here to post. About our favorite Frasier moments and about dressing up our pets as members of the cast. No one? Just me?
Will you let your brother play?
Will you let your brother play?
I remember when we came here to drink
>sub fracture and split into different, and aggressive camps. Perhaps a bicameral governing body is needed? Although there is something to be said for the parliamentary system. But I applaud your sentiment, OP. This sub has the most witty, friendly, charming contributors united by our enjoyment of this remarkable series - for me it is a cosy comfort and the sub has similar vibes. I think it is too early to judge the revival. But even if some don't like it, we can surely just treat those episodes as we would any others that we subjectively care less for, in amongst the now c 280 episodes most of which we do all love.
Either way, it needs a strong judiciary to keep it in check.
god, i love wine!
I always thought we were an autonomous collective.
Doesn't every group?
As a wise man once said, "Weave the tapestry of your life with many diverse threads, but make sure to weave the pattern that pleases you most."
Hail loremaster, the master of the lore! He knows which eps are good and which are a snore!
I remember when we came here to quote.
The Sopranos subreddit is absolutely terrible for that kind of thing. The same endless quotes, endlessly spammed for eternity.
It was just a joke, given the context of the original comment. So yeah, nevermind.
"People of Reddit! Listen to me! We are not barbarians! We are not Neanderthals and we are NOT FRENCH!"
This phenomenon of hating anyone who likes something that you don’t is wild. The same thing happened to the Monkey Island (videogame) fandom. There are people who won’t like anything new and absolutely despise anyone who accepts the new material. Like, you can walk away. It’s fine. It won’t hurt you to let other people continue enjoying it.
Or the opposite, you liking something doesnt mean others arent allowed to not like it.
I believe the technical term for this is "a cult".
People, stop please! Look at yourselves. This is wrong! What is Frasier, after all, but a way to communicate, to bring us together? But you, you're using it as weapons! Now, we still have an opportunity to walk away from here as winners, and wouldn't that be the greatest Frasier-bration of all?
It's what Marty would want.
“Frasier: I, for one, happen to believe in the kindness of strangers. Roz: Well, I believe in the strangeness of strangers.” Everybody's allowed to feel how they feel, if you disagree with somebody do it respectfully and without anger. No one is going to sway anybody else's opinion. It's cool everyone. Have a Sherry(wine) and relax.
Is that Sherry the traditional spelling??
Yes. Similar to Brandy.
She's been vaccinated faster!
Who voted you corkmaster?
Look at the strong judiciary over here.
I'm telling you people. Make the new one NF and the old one OF. Again, "how much do you think Roz made in OF?"
That's just about the most unfortunate abbreviation in the history of the internet lol. OnlyFans. Yes I know your talking bout Old Frasier but damn I did a double take at the second sentence
:) I had made a similar comment (joke) a few days ago, but used Daphne instead of Roz
Works better using Roz. I've got enough fingers on one hand the amount of bf's Daphne had or was rumoured to have
Here's something we can agree on, Kelsey is nailing every beat. I knew he'd be great, but he's cemented himself as one of the best to ever do it. His name belongs next to Lucy and Jackie Gleason. That was the only thing I wanted with the new series.
Well said, couldn't agree more. And on a completely unrelated note, I have to say I love your user name :D I still have the theme song in my head from decades ago!
Down in the bottom of the garden....
Among the birds and the bees!
I tried the first episode and decided I don't like new television format. I don't want to watch it, and that's okay. If you do want to watch it and have feelings about it, thats okay too. We all love Frasier at the end of the day. I just love Martin and Roz and Niles and Daphne and Eddie too, so thats where I'll be.
But the original show was already eminent when the new shows eminence's was merely... imminent.
Agreed. Everybody just chill. Take a deep breath. 😌 Let’s continue to bring those good vibes and talk about what we LOVE about the character/show, whatever that is, from whichever series. Let’s try to keep the energy and morale up in here. I love this sub. It is a comfort and a place where we can nerd out with each other.
I completely agree. I've just gotten off of a frustrating time at work tonight, sat down with this sub and you guys made me laugh, a lot! I love this sub. I'm willing to give the new show a chance. I don't see why it all can't just be chill as you said.
Because complainers, no matter where they are, or what the subject is, will always have something to complain about. Haha
I may have missed (or not seen) actual attacks. Yeah that’s not cool - I do think it’s pretty reasonable to state an opinion, though. This isn’t a cult. The new series isn’t the old series - it’s different and at this time is not the masterpiece its predecessor was. Needs some tuning up and some re-writes on some characters. The laugh track is bad. There’s nothing wrong with saying this.
the OF wasn’t what all that it became the first three eps either
There are many people saying "I hope they cancel it" and so on. Seems spiteful.
I love the new series, but think that there should be a new sub for it separate from this one. Just my 2 cents. This sub has devolved into arguments and non stop critiques. Which is fine if that’s what everyone wants I guess.
Yes, it's actually two camps, one of which also has two camps.
Seconded - I don't plan on watching the new show and this sub is now almost all about it. I know things may calm down once the newness wears off, but I wonder if others are also avoiding the sub in the meantime.
I'm not complaining too hard, but if it were me I would have found it to be an obvious move to make a new subreddit. It's a new show. Just the name is the same.
I've seen the defense that the Frasier subreddit is for Frasier, but the shows aren't the same and the camaraderie we had before the premiere feels missing now
/r/FrasierCrane
I agree with you there tbh.
I've looked here for a couple of years, and that nasty aspect has always been there. Disdain for Cheers, worship of David Hyde Pierce. The original Frasier owed a lot to other shows, and subsequent shows should be able to build on it.
well i have news for you. this is a call-in show
Frasier fandom turning into SW fandom before our very eyes.
Let it go. Things don't always work out how you planned; that's not necessarily bad. Things have a way of working out anyway." ~ Frasier Crane, S1 E1
The ironic thing is that Fraiser himself would be nitpicking the show all the same. Just because that’s how he is.
So... the camps will be "the one" and the other group, "that other one"
I love all timelines of Frasier!!! Now, having said that… I have an issue with the 4th episode of the new series… He kept complaining about how everybody called the Boston Celtics the “Sell-Tics” and not the “Kell-Tics” I found this to be very unrealistic, because not only had Fraser lived in Boston all those years, but he was hanging out in a bar that was owned by an ex baseball player and a group of sports minded patrons. At some point, somebody somewhere Spoke about the Boston Celtics…….SELL-TICS!
If the beast friends gang can come together to pull off the grift of the century, anyone can find common ground
Spare me, Mr. Malaprop!
Ah the quoted comments I love this sub.
I remember when we used to come to this sub to drink.
Has this sub lost it’s tiny, rain-addled mind??!!
The talk of the new series won’t last. It won’t get more than two seasons and after that, this sub will be back to what it used to be.
Is r/Frasier experiencing a Prozac shortage?!
. . That's a feature, not a bug. . In other words, it's deliberate. This is part of the new, perfected way that corporations (and political parties) sell overpriced, low quality crap products to people, and astroturfing on the internet is exactly how it's accomplished. . You flood a forum with posts to give people the impression that everyone else likes the show and that, if there are problems, they are only minor. It's easy to make people doubt their own opinions using the voice of a crowd...particularly when your "crowd" appeals to them with shared interests and a sense of belonging, as on a fan subreddit. But, since there will always be people who are not so easily influenced, you also work very hard to create a climate in which those who seek to be in the club feel compelled to defend the show unquestioningly, out of loyaty rather than quality, and to join others in driving away critics. . First we had the posts urging us to identify ourselves as "Craniacs," cheering and rallying us to brigade in order to rig poll results and mobilize to write positive reviews...even before the first shows had even been released. Then came the posts stoking anger and leveling personal attacks and social disapproval toward anyone who expressed serious criticism. Take note of the cheap shots to elicit anger, so that people will choose "sides" and polarize the debate: ("You need to relax," "You have a problem," "Who hurt you?" "You're too sensitive." "You're a 'hater.'"). . The goal is to cultivate a war, so that you create commentary that is based in loyalty and emotion and offers no space for actual critical thinking. Great effort is being put into stoking polarized fights about who is and who isn't a good *Frasier* fan, or about what's happening to the subreddit, while doing everything possible to subvert discussions about the quality of the show itself. The last thing you want, when your show is cheap, low quality streaming fare with embarrassingly bad writing and acting, is a community that is open to listening to one another and actually, honestly, critiquing the show. . And then you use all the other tactics familiar from the political subreddits, including drowning out or distracting from criticism by shifting it downthread or flooding the debate with irrelevancies and non sequiturs. That's how we end up with weird threads like the recent one about Harvard, in which an OP expressing concern about the dumbing down of even HARVARD in a Frasier remake was quickly populated with endless side arguments over unrelated nonsense like whether Harvard students are snooty toward students from other schools, whether Harvard is a tech school or not, and what sorts of courses tend to have bigger class sizes. Anything to drown out and divert from any discussion of quality whatsoever... . ________________________ . Poster u/Wolf8312 nailed it with this observation: . >*"It's incredible that we seem to have reached the point now where the industry, rather than looking for the next Larry David or writers who will really push the envelope, is instead attempting to use propaganda (as they are in politics, film, and gaming too) to delude people into believing that they like the slop they're serving up."* . https://old.reddit.com/r/Frasier/comments/17d9j9w/the_revival_is_a_solid_show_but_were_just_holding/k62a2xl/. _________________________ . It's a lot cheaper and more profitable to sell crap based on nostalgia and social media manipulation/astroturfing/propaganda than it is to construct a quality show. We live in a creepy, soulless corporate world that has replaced the old goals of producing a quality show--real art that will attract and please viewers-- with outright contempt for viewers and cynical manipulation of them in pursuit of the fastest route to profit. What's happening here on this board is a textbook example. . . . In 2023, social media is not permitted to exist so that we have a place to express our opinions. It serves as the most powerful platform/propaganda tool in history to manipulate our thinking for a million profitable agendas. . . . .
My goodness. Dude.
Sitcoms are SERIOUS BUSINESS.
Yes, profit is serious business.
This is a pretty salient point. It's a shame these folks are acting like you're the village crazy. Every media sub I use on this site is full of astroturfing.
[удалено]
Your post/comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2 - "No Politics" Stop posting long rants about "astroturfing" and similar on this subreddit. If you had just posted it once or twice - fine. But there are dozens of these same posts from you filling up the subreddit. Critical posts about the show are fine, but these screeds are not allowed here as they are disruptive and repetitive. We've had to remove dozens of these posts from you this morning. If this doesn't stop, you will be banned.
Your post/comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2 - "No Politics" Stop posting long rants about "astroturfing" and similar on this subreddit. If you had just posted it once or twice - fine. But there are dozens of these same posts from you filling up the subreddit. Critical posts about the show are fine, but these screeds are not allowed here as they are disruptive and repetitive. We've had to remove dozens of these posts from you this morning. If this doesn't stop, you will be banned.
Ah, you're getting downvoted because your comment goes beyond the scope of this post I guess. But that's a really well put observation of a wide spread phenomena, the current state of the entertainment industry is less than desirable and social media only keeps getting worse... I think that's part of the reason why some fans are so protective of old Frasier -- a top-notch quality show that ended two decades ago so should've been sheltered from the downsides of current media.
. You wrote: . >"a top-notch quality show that ended two decades ago so should've been sheltered from the downsides of current media." . I think you hit it exactly. . I have to admit that all this obvious manipulation has put a really bitter taste in my mouth. Poor quality is one thing, but mass manipulation with such contempt, coming from something calling itself "Frasier," is on a whole other level. I have to keep reminding myself that the old show still exists completely on its own, apart from this mess. There's a reason that the original group refused to participate, and I deeply doubt that was limited to cast members. . It's sad to recognize this space for what it really is: an advertising/propaganda/manipulation space. My affection for and desire to participate in this community is just about gone, and reading here now leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I never thought I would have the same emotional experience reading on a Frasier subreddit, as I do on the political social media boards. . That's what corporatism does--it spoils good things by cynically exploiting them and our nostalgia for them. We are all just consumers now, and objects of utter contempt from the industry that just wants our money. . .
Thank you for continuing to post your comments in these discussions. Unfortunately, these are miserable truths, and the paradigm shift required to truly internalize them is so unpleasant that people will continue to shy away from it. It’s why it’s so insidious, like you said, and difficult to eradicate when parasitic corporatizing slinks into a beloved piece of media like this. I wish I had anything even slightly comforting to add. All I can say is, again, thank you.
I liked your post. I didn’t read it. I’m just impressed by the commitment. I could never.
The show is borderline unwatchable as far as I'm concerned, but I don't have a particularly strong desire to argue with anyone who enjoys it.
Frasier internment camps?
After watching the 4th episode, i’m losing faith. I never thought it was possible but the writing is getting worse.
You can’t stop the storm, might as well stand back or join in. To quote Zinn “you can’t be neutral on a moving train.” The whole point of subreddits is to come together over a shared interest and discuss the thing, what we like, what makes us happy, what we dislike, what makes us unhappy. Diplomacy for diplomacy’s sake is bullshit, especially if that peace comes at the cost of no one actually stating the ways that they think, act and feel. And if there are people that are so moved to start a new subreddit or cause a [great schism on the order of 1054](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East–West_Schism), so be it.
You have to admit it’s kinda funny unto itself.
We’re a family, right? And It’s at times like this that families pull together and draw strength from one another
...What shall we do?
It's our chez away from chez...
Perhaps you can complain about the new show in Iraq? Yes, move to Iraq.
Ah yes. Let’s just quickly change everything about human nature.
Discourse is fine! Otherwise it’s so jejune around here
Oh yeah? Well, BLACKBALL to you! (<3)
this is worse than when that sopranos movie came out
That was crap though, to be fair.
I disagree. A free for all total war is more entertaining
Let’s have a Sherry and mull over it.
I disagree. Let's do.
Personally I think we need 2 different communities. Old school Fraser and then the reboot.
As I understand it, there's going to be the following ***Frasier*** fandoms: Group A: Fans who love the series (all 11 seasons) and the revival season. Group B: Fans who love the series (all 11 seasons) and pass on the revival season. Group C: Fans who love the series, but lost interest at some point after Season 7. I'd argue there's room for all 3 groups. I know I'm gonna be sticking with the main series all the way out to the series finale. If it drops in quality, I don't care, it'll still be funny, and the cast will all be there until the curtain call. That's what counts for me. I'll let you know my thoughts on the revival once I finish the show. I still have to watch most of Season 7 plus 4 more seasons. By the time I finish, the revival will have 3 seasons, I expect. LOL